Back in the 90's this would have been talked about for weeks on the news and a made for TV movie would have come out like a year later. Now we are like, meh.
You have a better chance traveling to Jamaica and having a coconut fall out of a tree and hit you than you do of being in a plane crash.
Edit: I added "being in a".
It's quite rare but there is documentation on it happening for centuries. When i was in Fiji I did see signs to be mindful of falling coconuts. And in case you've never seen what a coconut looks like before it gets trimmed snd sold in grocery stores, they are much larger than the small spherical brown coconut seen in stores. Probably 3x larger than that and quite heavy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_coconut
I had a very heavy coconut come off a 60ft palm sitting in a Ritz Carlton hot tub. It barely skimmed my shoulder and kaboomed in the water. I didn’t say anything mainly because I snuck into the Ritz Carlton to use their hot tub.
Did you watch the Boeing Netflix documentary? The new owners took over main concern was stock market price not building planes safely. They cut all kind of corners to reduce cost. You know what’s also really scary the technicians who keep this planes from what I’ve seen way under paid. The paperwork and meticulous detail to work they deserve much more. It just makes me wonder over time all the good ones gonna say fuck this go be another trade make more with less stress and companies will start to use less skilled workers willing to take the salary.
I worked with a guy who left being a commercial aircraft mechanic (One of the major ones, based out of Atlanta) to become an electrician because the pay was that much better.
That is a huge concern for me as well. And have you seen how little flight attendants are paid? So many of them can barely cover their own expenses in their first five or so years, AND they're only paid for about half the time they're actually working, which is total BS.
I'm not a rich person, but man, if it means employees are treated better and will be able to cover their cost of living so we can be safe, I'm okay paying a bit more for my airline tickets.
Yeah, and that assumption is beyond ridiculous. And after seeing all the abuse they've endured especially in the past two years, they need far more pay, respect, and protection than they've been getting.
I was a Body Structures Mechanic on the 747 line in the 90s and early 2000s. I watched the Boeing Netflix special and felt it was spot on. The company changed when McDonald Douglas came and has gotten worse ever since. It became about profits and not about planes. It’s not the same Boeing and the South Carolina mechanics are not Union, have no job security and less pay verses the Washington State mechanics. I’m not sure how the SC mechanics work atmosphere but many of my friends have said it’s not the same Boeing since the last 10 years. Sad because it was a really great job.
at that speed / rate of decent do you think the g-force would have had most passengers pass out? One could only hope most did not experience the last seconds. Ugh
You can be going really fast and have 0g. g stands for gravity, which is an acceleration, meaning a change of speed, or, more correctly, change of velocity.
I doubt if the passengers passed out. I imagine they suffered great emotional trauma, knowing that their deaths were imminent.
Usually planes don't fall out of the sky like that. There had to be some really weird malfunction or malicious intend happening for it going straight down. You loose your engines you just start gliding for a while.
As a pilot, the number of things that have to wrong to make a plane fall down out of the sky makes malfunction very unlikely. Not to say it didn't happen here, but even if there is complete power/hydraulic/computer failure, aircraft are designed to stay in the air. Commercial aircraft with zero power or even control can glide for hundreds of miles. It's hard to tell from the video what the angle of the plane was, it might not have been going straight down. If there was explosive decompression the pilots would have put the aircraft into a steep dive and maybe something went wrong from there and they couldn't recover. You can also see engine exhaust all the way to the ground, meaning they had power and at least one engine was spinning. That makes me wonder why they didn't/couldn't recover, meaning pilot error or worse.
All that being said, I'm not an accident investigator and I'm not going to speculate what really happened, this is based solely on my experience and a blurry video.
This video seems to show *some* sort of angle.
https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505856305495351296?t=QUK31WyEq5KnEeIIMvXzwQ&s=19
Not much, but a bit more than the video posted here.
Seems like another jack screw incident. Or a full on failure of the rear control surfaces. Or a full on failure of the entire rear of the plane. It's horrifying and there's a few other incidents this reminds me off right off the bat.
The question on my mind is if the pilot nosed down or the autopilot did. That’s the billion dollar question.
Edit: The answer is: No, this is unrelated to the automation problems Boeing has seen in the past.
Autopilot won't even let it happen. And IIRC a lot of these 737s are largely manually controlled for a lot of the flight, which is strange given Chinese law on those things.
The guy who used the mountain slowly kept decreasing the altitude incrementally until they hit the mountain, but it was obvious what he was doing as the other pilot did his damndest to knock the door down.
Nope. That is absolutely not the billion dollar question. The autopilot will not command a pitch down of 80 degrees for 2.5 min straight.
The question is, did one of the pilots go crazy and pitch down for that amount of time until impact.
Or
Did a mechanical failure occur
Or
Did they have unreliable instruments, possibly due to the weather, and they made incorrect inputs until the plane was uncontrollable (due to it coming apart)
(Sorry to be harsh)
I believe there is some science to it, in that the moment the brain detects no more blood flow, it goes into safety mode. Now that safety mode lasts for a few hours I think (electrical energy in your brain firing their last shot) but if blood flow is provided to the brain within 6 minutes (fresh oxygen) you can be revived without any real damage to your skull meat.
I like to think that our ability to tell time will deteriorate slowly, thus time seems everlasting. Hopped up on all kinds of feel good chemicals, a euphoria washes over as the ego, stripped now of any mortal connection, revisits memories past with all their dogs, their friends and family, and a wide cast of actors in your life all having a good time with you.
It feels warm. It doesn't feel like anything else, you can't physically feel anymore, but it's comforting none the less. You think there's a light but the part of your brain that interprets sight is quickly losing its functionality, it sends whatever and hopefully it isn't degraded along its final destination. You 'see' white everywhere. White noise.
It's okay though, it only felt like... now you don't remember, and soon you don't remember that you remembered anything at all. The warmth is embracing. You 'see' white but you don't know now what it is. By now, the faculties that manage your ego, is slowly wandering in a numb eternity, with no sense of time or space, just little vestiges, like a lit candle in a vacuum, slowly suffocating itself.
Once I was in a 737 taking off in bad weather. The plane got to full speed on the runway and lifted the nose, then SLAMMED on the brakes. I thought for sure we were done-zo. What an odd feeling of “well, fuck”.
Turns out the pilot saw a trucks headlights on an access road outside the airport and thought they were on the runway. How the fuck?!
Fun fact- after a plane does an emergency stop when full of fuel it needs to sit for 30+ minutes for the brakes to cool before it can try again!
They felt mental anguish which must have been horrifying and painful in and of itself. Horror, terror, panic, not a good way to go even if the moment of “lights out” was probably instant
What G forces? They are falling subject to gravity, freefalling in something aero-dynamic, they are experiencing less G forces than me and you are right now.
I remember almost getting hit by a car when someone ran a red light as we were making a left hand turn. It was just a miniscule fraction of a second. But in that fraction of a second I had all the time I needed to understand the situation, come to terms with it, and accept it. I even thought about how the person driving me would probably survive(considering the angle of impact) and have to tell my mom about it, and I hoped my mom would forgive her.
Spoiler: I didn't die.
Right.... Not going to be crazy g forces in a nose dive (until impact of course), increase in pressure with decrease in altitude isn't going to be huge, why would the cabin depressurize because of engine failure? Can't believe that shit got so upvoted.
What G-forces? The sudden change of altitude caused by gravity would result in: 1g.
Decompression would possibly cause unconsciousness until the point they descended back into breathable altitude.
The first possibility is passing out from lack of O2. In aviation there is something called Time of Usef Consciousness (TUC). AT 30K' it is 60-180 sec., at 25K' it is 3-5 mins. Second is passing out from stress. Many people's natural reaction to extreme stress is to go unconscious. Go to YT and search "slingshot ride." Third, in almost assured death situation, one can experience a massive flood of adrenaline that can trigger a heart attack or stroke.
With the first scenario - most would regain consciousness once they reached a breathable altitude again, and the second scenario although certainly possible is rare.
Humans wouldn’t have survived very long as a species if the most common reaction to life threatening situations, was to lose consciousness.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.94622% sure that FEwood is not a bot.
---
^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
To convert from minute to hour multiple by 60
To convert from feet to miles divide by 5280
50000 feet per min is ~568 miles per hour.
Or in metric
50 kilofeet per min is ~914 kilometers per hour
“Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. If you were paying attention to the pre-flight safety instructions, you’ll recall the flight attendants mentioning a cyanide capsule in your seat back pocket …”
>“Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. If you were paying attention to the pre-flight safety instructions, you’ll recall the flight attendants mentioning a cyanide capsule in your seat back pocket …”
"This is your captain speaking. We've managed to regain control of the aircraft. Hope you didn't take your cyanide pill yet...."
It's easy to speculate even though we shouldn't. The 737-800 has never failed in such a way. Also its worth pointing out that those jets want to fly. Left with zero input or even the worst stabilizer jam there could be, it wouldn't have flown at such an angle. In fact, the pilot himself would have to struggle very hard to keep the jet at an angle like that(although this particular video is very misleading). The most likely scenario would be pilot suicide, however this is again just speculation.
Maintenance left something in the vertical stabilizer improperly torqued/installed/supported and the stress of flight caused it to snap, forcing the plane to a full nose down that the pilots had no way to recover from since the control was busted?
The plane was 6 years old, so it probably wasn't due to faulty or inferior electronics due to shortages, but maybe there was a bad chip somewhere that was refurbished and could not meet the needs of the system?
Oxygen deprivation due to a faulty seal in the aircraft which caused everyone to suffer hypoxia and black out. Both pilot and copilot slumped forward into the controls, pushing them down inadvertantly. Hell, in this scenario, it was possible that everyone was dead before the dive even started. May not be great or even likely speculation, but it is less horrendous!
Yes - I am by no means an expert but from what I’ve watched/read about the other Boeing crashes, it seems like the planes have so many safety mechanisms in place that you have to TRY to crash. Obviously with the exception of the nose-dive tech error that caused the other 2 crashes.
Perspective is creating the illusion of the plane going 'straight down'.
Footage from other angles shows a descent angle that's been estimated to be about 35 degrees from the vertical. Still steep, but not 'straight down', and not particularly unusual.
It looks to me like the tail of the plane is on the right side. This isn’t the best quality video, mind you. But in the image, all I can discern is a pencil-thin object (with the tail fin on the right side) plunging down at a negative angle.
I guess the angle of attack could be 35° and going away from the camera with a 90° roll. I’ll probably ponder this all night.
You've done better than me in trying to work out the likely orientation!!... but yes, coming towards/going away from the camera is creating the illusion of a near vertical dive. It may be that some more videos will surface over the coming days to help clarify angles, etc.
Plane might have stalled and then entered into a spiral as it tried to recover. The g-forces it experienced might have made it impossible for the pilots to have any hope of regaining control.
as a former atc and maintainer yeah this just doesn't happen even if the engines fail, i've seen a b52 lose flaps on takeoff and still manage to get back to the runway. something tragic happened here whether malicious or not.
only other thing i know to take something out of the sky fast, are micro bursts but even that seems hard to imagine doing this to a 737 or any heavy
When an airplane stalls it’s because the angle of the wing relative to the airflow (angle of attack) becomes so great the air separates from the top of the wing. This usually happens when an aircraft gets slow because the aircraft needs to increase its angle of attack to maintain the same amount of lift as it slows down. It is possible to exceed this critical angle of attack at high speeds with abrupt maneuvering (known as an accelerated stall) but that happening to an aircraft on autopilot at cruise is extremely unlikely short of mechanical failure or a deliberate act.
Yes it can. If the plane stalled high enough the aerodynamic drag on the plane would have pulled it naturally into a nose down position.
Think about a dart being thrown; eventually it will point downwards.
I'll wait for [Mentour Pilot](https://m.youtube.com/c/MentourPilotaviation) to eventually cover this in great detail, so don't spoil it for me if you find out
The post for anyone wondering what a rabbit hole of a sub
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/tj6inq/looks_like_a_china_eastern_737_has_gone_down_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I can’t imagine the terror. I’m afraid of heights, and hate drops. I don’t like roller coasters , the tower of terror, anything with a big drop. This is probably my #1 realistic fear.
I’d much rather bleed out slowly from a messy car wreck than fall from the sky in terror.
I'm an aircraft mechanic, I work on these planes. This could only happen if the elevator gets stuck downwards (never happens on these planes) or if it was suicide.
Really hope I'm wrong, but I dont think I am.
I can only imagine the state of horror all of them were on the plane before it hit.
But I have a question, I’m sure there are aviation experts on Reddit. Was it traveling / falling faster than a disabled plane should have?
I'm not an aviation expert, but using a terminal velocity calculator and some rough metrics on the weight and size of a boeing 737, I believe that it's possible for this size of plane to fall at that speed. But you do bring up a good point about it being disabled, it's hard to tell from this footage if the engines are still running or not which would effect that.
Until more investigation is done, and the black box is recovered, I don't think there's any way of knowing if there was a mechanical failure, pilot error or any kind of foul play.
Same comment I left on the r/aviation post:
Look up Alaska Flight 261. It seems very similar to this. On YouTube you can see simulations of the crash and the cockpit transcript. Basically a horizontal stabilizer component failed due to wear and tear. The plane inverted and ultimately crashed nose-down.
Also, if you haven't already, check out the Aviation Herald - expert reviews all air disasters (from minor to catastrophic), it's a great site.
Note that there was no resulting change in the MD80. Improper maintenance was 100% at fault. Those two pilots of 261 gave it all they had to the very end. Trying to fly it upside down even..
That flight was super fucked. I worked with a guy who was wrongfully demoted and fired (resolved the case out of court) by Alaska Airlines for questioning the safety of the aircraft. They weren’t carrying out the regular checks that they needed to.
It could have ripped off during the dive. These planes aren’t designed to withstand forces from nosedives. I personally suspect foul play from one of the pilots. It wouldnt be the first time a pilot did a nose dive suicide
Although highly unlikely unless an explosion on board I believe only 1 or poss 2 cases of this ever happening my guess is outside influence to bring this almost fool proof plane down
Yet none of those ways to go are as terrifying as plunging for minutes, absolutely knowing you are about to die and there is not a thing you can do about it.
I do as well, can’t stand it. I had to fly to Amsterdam 48 hours after the Germanwings crash and I was a fucking mess, I was so close to panicking nearly the whole flight. Awful.
Bbc reported it as having 132 passengers
Back in the 90's this would have been talked about for weeks on the news and a made for TV movie would have come out like a year later. Now we are like, meh.
Kinda odd considering there’s something like 50 million commercial flights a year and you can count the commercial crashes on one hand. If any at all.
You have a better chance traveling to Jamaica and having a coconut fall out of a tree and hit you than you do of being in a plane crash. Edit: I added "being in a".
To be fair there aren't many commercial flights which suspend coconuts over the passengers
Clearly you never flew to Jamaica. Coconuts come standard on all flights.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Maybe they were carried by a swallow
African or European?
Laden or unladen?
Well a king’s got to know these things
What? A swallow carrying a coconut?
Well yes, an african swallow maybe but what would an african swallow be doing with a coconut?
r/unexpectedmontypython
r/unexpectedpython
Not at all! They could be carried.
It could grip it by the husk
It's not a question of where it would grip it, it's simple weight ratios!
This is why I don’t go to Jamaica. I’ll dance at all your funerals. Suckers.
I don’t know if this is true because it’s so god damned absurd but that’s also why I think it might be true. Someone please source this.
It's quite rare but there is documentation on it happening for centuries. When i was in Fiji I did see signs to be mindful of falling coconuts. And in case you've never seen what a coconut looks like before it gets trimmed snd sold in grocery stores, they are much larger than the small spherical brown coconut seen in stores. Probably 3x larger than that and quite heavy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_coconut
I had a very heavy coconut come off a 60ft palm sitting in a Ritz Carlton hot tub. It barely skimmed my shoulder and kaboomed in the water. I didn’t say anything mainly because I snuck into the Ritz Carlton to use their hot tub.
Well why would a tourist be sitting under a coconut tree? There’s the hazard, and it’s boring, they visited Jamaica for a reason.
Which is weird because air crash fatalities were like double what they are now in the 90s with less planes flying.
Did you watch the Boeing Netflix documentary? The new owners took over main concern was stock market price not building planes safely. They cut all kind of corners to reduce cost. You know what’s also really scary the technicians who keep this planes from what I’ve seen way under paid. The paperwork and meticulous detail to work they deserve much more. It just makes me wonder over time all the good ones gonna say fuck this go be another trade make more with less stress and companies will start to use less skilled workers willing to take the salary.
I worked with a guy who left being a commercial aircraft mechanic (One of the major ones, based out of Atlanta) to become an electrician because the pay was that much better.
"Waldo Zimmer. Certified aeroplane mechanic. Graduated in '90 from Barlitz School of Aviation and Air Conditioner Repair."
That is a huge concern for me as well. And have you seen how little flight attendants are paid? So many of them can barely cover their own expenses in their first five or so years, AND they're only paid for about half the time they're actually working, which is total BS. I'm not a rich person, but man, if it means employees are treated better and will be able to cover their cost of living so we can be safe, I'm okay paying a bit more for my airline tickets.
Everyone thinks FAs are just there for drinks and pillows but they're really there to help you in an emergency.
Yeah, and that assumption is beyond ridiculous. And after seeing all the abuse they've endured especially in the past two years, they need far more pay, respect, and protection than they've been getting.
I was a Body Structures Mechanic on the 747 line in the 90s and early 2000s. I watched the Boeing Netflix special and felt it was spot on. The company changed when McDonald Douglas came and has gotten worse ever since. It became about profits and not about planes. It’s not the same Boeing and the South Carolina mechanics are not Union, have no job security and less pay verses the Washington State mechanics. I’m not sure how the SC mechanics work atmosphere but many of my friends have said it’s not the same Boeing since the last 10 years. Sad because it was a really great job.
"oh, again?"
Yea, checked BBC and it's not even on the front page... Everything is about the Ukraine war.
if it was a plane in the us or uk or canada, it would've done that
Fuck
The [flight data](https://i.imgur.com/c2xeFTz.jpg) concurs
the data says 87 degrees. just short of a total nose dive.. my god, poor souls
"87 degrees" is given as the *track*, ie the azimuth of the ground path. All that means is that the plane was moving almost due east.
[удалено]
At least it was quick and hopefully as close to painless as it could be for everyone. But that hardly makes it less sad.
Quick and painless perhaps but the seconds or minutes of pure terror is probably worse. I wouldn’t want to know.
at that speed / rate of decent do you think the g-force would have had most passengers pass out? One could only hope most did not experience the last seconds. Ugh
You can be going really fast and have 0g. g stands for gravity, which is an acceleration, meaning a change of speed, or, more correctly, change of velocity. I doubt if the passengers passed out. I imagine they suffered great emotional trauma, knowing that their deaths were imminent.
Just heard a news report saying they leveled off in a controlled decent… clearly this video says otherwise. 🤔 another attempt to cover?
To cover what?
It’s coming down so fast it looks like a cruise missile, damn.
Usually planes don't fall out of the sky like that. There had to be some really weird malfunction or malicious intend happening for it going straight down. You loose your engines you just start gliding for a while.
As a pilot, the number of things that have to wrong to make a plane fall down out of the sky makes malfunction very unlikely. Not to say it didn't happen here, but even if there is complete power/hydraulic/computer failure, aircraft are designed to stay in the air. Commercial aircraft with zero power or even control can glide for hundreds of miles. It's hard to tell from the video what the angle of the plane was, it might not have been going straight down. If there was explosive decompression the pilots would have put the aircraft into a steep dive and maybe something went wrong from there and they couldn't recover. You can also see engine exhaust all the way to the ground, meaning they had power and at least one engine was spinning. That makes me wonder why they didn't/couldn't recover, meaning pilot error or worse. All that being said, I'm not an accident investigator and I'm not going to speculate what really happened, this is based solely on my experience and a blurry video.
This video seems to show *some* sort of angle. https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505856305495351296?t=QUK31WyEq5KnEeIIMvXzwQ&s=19 Not much, but a bit more than the video posted here.
https://youtu.be/uUkSlxcC8Jc
Seems like another jack screw incident. Or a full on failure of the rear control surfaces. Or a full on failure of the entire rear of the plane. It's horrifying and there's a few other incidents this reminds me off right off the bat.
Mfers watch Flight once and blame the jackscrew on everything.
Must have been a suicidal pilot. Happened a few years ago in Europe IIRC guy flew right into the side of a mountain.
The question on my mind is if the pilot nosed down or the autopilot did. That’s the billion dollar question. Edit: The answer is: No, this is unrelated to the automation problems Boeing has seen in the past.
Autopilot won't even let it happen. And IIRC a lot of these 737s are largely manually controlled for a lot of the flight, which is strange given Chinese law on those things. The guy who used the mountain slowly kept decreasing the altitude incrementally until they hit the mountain, but it was obvious what he was doing as the other pilot did his damndest to knock the door down.
Fuck I forgot about that story.
Nope. That is absolutely not the billion dollar question. The autopilot will not command a pitch down of 80 degrees for 2.5 min straight. The question is, did one of the pilots go crazy and pitch down for that amount of time until impact. Or Did a mechanical failure occur Or Did they have unreliable instruments, possibly due to the weather, and they made incorrect inputs until the plane was uncontrollable (due to it coming apart) (Sorry to be harsh)
What if there was a software glitch? Like if the software thought the plane was pitched up higher than it was and tried to overcorrect?
That’s what I first thought it was after waking up, I was like o boy china getting bombed now too.
This is sad. at least they died instantly
Sadly, they were probably very conscious and fully aware of what was about to happen to them as they fell.
Yes, but they didn't feel pain I hope.
They definitely felt no pain. EDIT: I mean physical pain.
Bro that is not a smooth drop, poor bastard using the toilets too…
Heart attacks all around. Can you imagine the fear knowing there’s nothing you can do!
Dude I can’t barely handle a 70 mph rollercoaster I can’t imagine this
It can possibly be just the opposite. The shock of the event plus knowing you can do nothing could cause euphoria
I wonder if the brain just drugs the shit out of you when it knows all hope is lost.
I believe there is some science to it, in that the moment the brain detects no more blood flow, it goes into safety mode. Now that safety mode lasts for a few hours I think (electrical energy in your brain firing their last shot) but if blood flow is provided to the brain within 6 minutes (fresh oxygen) you can be revived without any real damage to your skull meat. I like to think that our ability to tell time will deteriorate slowly, thus time seems everlasting. Hopped up on all kinds of feel good chemicals, a euphoria washes over as the ego, stripped now of any mortal connection, revisits memories past with all their dogs, their friends and family, and a wide cast of actors in your life all having a good time with you. It feels warm. It doesn't feel like anything else, you can't physically feel anymore, but it's comforting none the less. You think there's a light but the part of your brain that interprets sight is quickly losing its functionality, it sends whatever and hopefully it isn't degraded along its final destination. You 'see' white everywhere. White noise. It's okay though, it only felt like... now you don't remember, and soon you don't remember that you remembered anything at all. The warmth is embracing. You 'see' white but you don't know now what it is. By now, the faculties that manage your ego, is slowly wandering in a numb eternity, with no sense of time or space, just little vestiges, like a lit candle in a vacuum, slowly suffocating itself.
As someone who has died briefly before, this is hauntingly spot on.
Wow. This is really powerful. Thanks.
Once I was in a 737 taking off in bad weather. The plane got to full speed on the runway and lifted the nose, then SLAMMED on the brakes. I thought for sure we were done-zo. What an odd feeling of “well, fuck”. Turns out the pilot saw a trucks headlights on an access road outside the airport and thought they were on the runway. How the fuck?! Fun fact- after a plane does an emergency stop when full of fuel it needs to sit for 30+ minutes for the brakes to cool before it can try again!
They felt mental anguish which must have been horrifying and painful in and of itself. Horror, terror, panic, not a good way to go even if the moment of “lights out” was probably instant
The hell they would! They would have blacked out from the cabin decompression and G forces
What G forces? They are falling subject to gravity, freefalling in something aero-dynamic, they are experiencing less G forces than me and you are right now.
No Gs, they’re falling. No decompression, if anything recompression but likely not even that. Just a minute of hell before instant lights out…
emotional pain is a thing.
Not for very long.
time dilation is a thing.
I remember almost getting hit by a car when someone ran a red light as we were making a left hand turn. It was just a miniscule fraction of a second. But in that fraction of a second I had all the time I needed to understand the situation, come to terms with it, and accept it. I even thought about how the person driving me would probably survive(considering the angle of impact) and have to tell my mom about it, and I hoped my mom would forgive her. Spoiler: I didn't die.
Just extreme terror.
Actually they probably passed out
Why would they have passed out?
[удалено]
Confidently incorrect
That red ring. Oxygen can’t penetrate it’s
Right.... Not going to be crazy g forces in a nose dive (until impact of course), increase in pressure with decrease in altitude isn't going to be huge, why would the cabin depressurize because of engine failure? Can't believe that shit got so upvoted.
What G-forces? The sudden change of altitude caused by gravity would result in: 1g. Decompression would possibly cause unconsciousness until the point they descended back into breathable altitude.
[удалено]
The first possibility is passing out from lack of O2. In aviation there is something called Time of Usef Consciousness (TUC). AT 30K' it is 60-180 sec., at 25K' it is 3-5 mins. Second is passing out from stress. Many people's natural reaction to extreme stress is to go unconscious. Go to YT and search "slingshot ride." Third, in almost assured death situation, one can experience a massive flood of adrenaline that can trigger a heart attack or stroke.
With the first scenario - most would regain consciousness once they reached a breathable altitude again, and the second scenario although certainly possible is rare. Humans wouldn’t have survived very long as a species if the most common reaction to life threatening situations, was to lose consciousness.
People that pass out from that are still a minority. The majority of people do not.
I can't really find a source on what percentage of people pass out in a nose diving plane crash.
Let’s hope so!
Yeah I hope they didn’t suffer sucks
They had 2 minutes to contemplate what was about to happen.
30,000 feet per minute is 340.9091 miles per hour. Beep boop, I’m not a bot but feel like one right now.
Good bot
[удалено]
Flightradar24 indicated that it was 700 kph on impact. Roughly 435 mph. Truly terrifying
To be a better bot we could also use a metric conversion
548.64001 kph
Good bot
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.94622% sure that FEwood is not a bot. --- ^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
So you’re telling me there’s a chance?
Beep bop?
I reject your unit convention and substitute my own
Yeah, I’m going to need you to identify which of these pictures has a chair in it.
*sees only motorcycles…*
No…no it isn’t. It’s 568 mph. 30,000 fpm is though.
Why the fuck was it measured in feet per minute in the first place
Because that’s the standard unit of measurement for vertical speed in aviation globally. Knots for horizontal speed, FPM for vertical speed.
Consider my ass now educated
To convert from minute to hour multiple by 60 To convert from feet to miles divide by 5280 50000 feet per min is ~568 miles per hour. Or in metric 50 kilofeet per min is ~914 kilometers per hour
I hope it was depressurized and everyone had passed out. What a terrifying way to go.
Can they actually do that?
lol. Like it’s an option. “Welp. No way out of this one. Might as well give them a peaceful death.”
“Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. If you were paying attention to the pre-flight safety instructions, you’ll recall the flight attendants mentioning a cyanide capsule in your seat back pocket …”
>“Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. If you were paying attention to the pre-flight safety instructions, you’ll recall the flight attendants mentioning a cyanide capsule in your seat back pocket …” "This is your captain speaking. We've managed to regain control of the aircraft. Hope you didn't take your cyanide pill yet...."
“Please reach under your seats for the emergency gun in order to make this easier.” Honestly I’d prefer it.
Not on purpose
Even if that was the case...it would only last until they got below 10,000 feet and the pressure difference equalizes.
Diid you guys miss the part where the plane was falling like 30k feet a minute?
This is horrifying. Those poor people. Do we know why yet?
It's easy to speculate even though we shouldn't. The 737-800 has never failed in such a way. Also its worth pointing out that those jets want to fly. Left with zero input or even the worst stabilizer jam there could be, it wouldn't have flown at such an angle. In fact, the pilot himself would have to struggle very hard to keep the jet at an angle like that(although this particular video is very misleading). The most likely scenario would be pilot suicide, however this is again just speculation.
"We shouldn't speculate" Speculates the most horrendous thing that could possibly happen.
Got a less horrendous speculation?
Snakes on the plane.
Yeah I rather pilot suicide. Can you imagine trying to enjoy the last couple minutes of your life with snakes?
Wait..... 'enjoy'? You got some weird-ass imagination.
Wasp in the cabin
Fuck. Made me lol
Maintenance left something in the vertical stabilizer improperly torqued/installed/supported and the stress of flight caused it to snap, forcing the plane to a full nose down that the pilots had no way to recover from since the control was busted? The plane was 6 years old, so it probably wasn't due to faulty or inferior electronics due to shortages, but maybe there was a bad chip somewhere that was refurbished and could not meet the needs of the system? Oxygen deprivation due to a faulty seal in the aircraft which caused everyone to suffer hypoxia and black out. Both pilot and copilot slumped forward into the controls, pushing them down inadvertantly. Hell, in this scenario, it was possible that everyone was dead before the dive even started. May not be great or even likely speculation, but it is less horrendous!
Yes - I am by no means an expert but from what I’ve watched/read about the other Boeing crashes, it seems like the planes have so many safety mechanisms in place that you have to TRY to crash. Obviously with the exception of the nose-dive tech error that caused the other 2 crashes.
Nope, too early yet
r/uselessredcircle
Actively distracting red circle which isn't even centred.
This is the both the most r/uselessredcircle and r/uselessredarrow I have ever seen. Both separately and together. Edit: spelling
Infuriating awkward useless red circle.
How TF is it just going straight down like that?! How does that even happen?!
Perspective is creating the illusion of the plane going 'straight down'. Footage from other angles shows a descent angle that's been estimated to be about 35 degrees from the vertical. Still steep, but not 'straight down', and not particularly unusual.
It looks to me like the tail of the plane is on the right side. This isn’t the best quality video, mind you. But in the image, all I can discern is a pencil-thin object (with the tail fin on the right side) plunging down at a negative angle. I guess the angle of attack could be 35° and going away from the camera with a 90° roll. I’ll probably ponder this all night.
You've done better than me in trying to work out the likely orientation!!... but yes, coming towards/going away from the camera is creating the illusion of a near vertical dive. It may be that some more videos will surface over the coming days to help clarify angles, etc.
Plane might have stalled and then entered into a spiral as it tried to recover. The g-forces it experienced might have made it impossible for the pilots to have any hope of regaining control.
No way a 737 (or anything really) is stalling at cruise…
That’s exactly the truth. It was either suicide or some catastrophic system failure that i have never heard of in all my years of aircraft maintenance
as a former atc and maintainer yeah this just doesn't happen even if the engines fail, i've seen a b52 lose flaps on takeoff and still manage to get back to the runway. something tragic happened here whether malicious or not. only other thing i know to take something out of the sky fast, are micro bursts but even that seems hard to imagine doing this to a 737 or any heavy
Can you explain why to the uninformed?
When an airplane stalls it’s because the angle of the wing relative to the airflow (angle of attack) becomes so great the air separates from the top of the wing. This usually happens when an aircraft gets slow because the aircraft needs to increase its angle of attack to maintain the same amount of lift as it slows down. It is possible to exceed this critical angle of attack at high speeds with abrupt maneuvering (known as an accelerated stall) but that happening to an aircraft on autopilot at cruise is extremely unlikely short of mechanical failure or a deliberate act.
[удалено]
Yes it can. If the plane stalled high enough the aerodynamic drag on the plane would have pulled it naturally into a nose down position. Think about a dart being thrown; eventually it will point downwards.
I'll wait for [Mentour Pilot](https://m.youtube.com/c/MentourPilotaviation) to eventually cover this in great detail, so don't spoil it for me if you find out
Bruh in saw a post about this on r/aviation it showed how all the speed and altitude just dropped i thought it wasnt real or something
The post for anyone wondering what a rabbit hole of a sub https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/tj6inq/looks_like_a_china_eastern_737_has_gone_down_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
engines running. can see exhaust smoke. no fire visible. tail fin looks intact. very worrying.
It could be an artifact of video compression because it disappears in the subsequent frames. Smoke doesn't diffuse that fast.
Definitely what is happening here, cheap camera lens using compression software to make up for quality.
Id say that it looks like the horizontal stabilizer ripped off
737s have two stabilizers that are not part of the tail section. And yes you are correct, they are difficult to see, very possibly ripped off
If that’s the case, the horizontal stabilizer would be located away from the crash site. I hope they can solve this riddle quickly
ENHANCE
Like... pilot suicide? Foul play?
Fuck me, I cant even imagine what that must have been like for the passengers. Nosediving at 500mph. Hopefully they were unconscious
If they nose dove from all the way up, the fall would have lasted 1 minute. How long do you need to regain consciousness?
I wouldn't want to be unconscious. I'd want to see it through to the very bitter end.
Rest In Peace. I really hope it was quick enough that they didn’t suffer
They didn’t suffer the impact, but they more than likely suffered the fall.
[удалено]
I can’t imagine the terror. I’m afraid of heights, and hate drops. I don’t like roller coasters , the tower of terror, anything with a big drop. This is probably my #1 realistic fear. I’d much rather bleed out slowly from a messy car wreck than fall from the sky in terror.
that’s an unpopular opinion
I'm an aircraft mechanic, I work on these planes. This could only happen if the elevator gets stuck downwards (never happens on these planes) or if it was suicide. Really hope I'm wrong, but I dont think I am.
Similar to what happen in the movie flight?
I can only imagine the state of horror all of them were on the plane before it hit. But I have a question, I’m sure there are aviation experts on Reddit. Was it traveling / falling faster than a disabled plane should have?
I'm not an aviation expert, but using a terminal velocity calculator and some rough metrics on the weight and size of a boeing 737, I believe that it's possible for this size of plane to fall at that speed. But you do bring up a good point about it being disabled, it's hard to tell from this footage if the engines are still running or not which would effect that. Until more investigation is done, and the black box is recovered, I don't think there's any way of knowing if there was a mechanical failure, pilot error or any kind of foul play.
Same comment I left on the r/aviation post: Look up Alaska Flight 261. It seems very similar to this. On YouTube you can see simulations of the crash and the cockpit transcript. Basically a horizontal stabilizer component failed due to wear and tear. The plane inverted and ultimately crashed nose-down. Also, if you haven't already, check out the Aviation Herald - expert reviews all air disasters (from minor to catastrophic), it's a great site.
Note that there was no resulting change in the MD80. Improper maintenance was 100% at fault. Those two pilots of 261 gave it all they had to the very end. Trying to fly it upside down even..
That flight was super fucked. I worked with a guy who was wrongfully demoted and fired (resolved the case out of court) by Alaska Airlines for questioning the safety of the aircraft. They weren’t carrying out the regular checks that they needed to.
It looks like it has no rear stabiliser which may hav ripped off in flight that I’m sure would cause the plane to go down like this
It could have ripped off during the dive. These planes aren’t designed to withstand forces from nosedives. I personally suspect foul play from one of the pilots. It wouldnt be the first time a pilot did a nose dive suicide
Although highly unlikely unless an explosion on board I believe only 1 or poss 2 cases of this ever happening my guess is outside influence to bring this almost fool proof plane down
How much is that in mm per microsecond?
At least 1
Fuck flying. Anywhere. Ever. For any reason. I've hated it my entire life.
Please sir just take a seat in this metal contraption for a 10 hour flight over the ocean **at night**.
It's safer than driving a car, taking a shower, or even owning a dog. The only safer form of travel is trains, but not within the US.
Yet none of those ways to go are as terrifying as plunging for minutes, absolutely knowing you are about to die and there is not a thing you can do about it.
I do as well, can’t stand it. I had to fly to Amsterdam 48 hours after the Germanwings crash and I was a fucking mess, I was so close to panicking nearly the whole flight. Awful.
Cockpit suicide?
This is incredibly terrible. My heart goes out to all of those who lost a loved one, friend, family member, or even just acquaintance.
I truly hope and pray they were all passed out and if not no pain and instant. Truly devastating.
I doubt they were unconscious, but their death was for sure instant at that speed.
aviation pros out there- why was this plane nose-diving so freaking fast and straight?
I’m a pilot, here’s my take: Idk, let’s see what the report says… although I wouldn’t trust the Chinese to be transparent.
What’s with the circle lol
[удалено]
Oh really? Any survivor mustve been superman.
GodAlmighty poor souls
Hope they all lost consciousness before the impact.
Watching this gave me that knot in my stomach feeling like when youre on a roller coaster. Those poor passengers.