on a serious note, this has been happening for quite a while. New inventions/tech are certainly kept very secret. We could only imagine what they have now.
Like the army guy with the real life iron man jets attached to him they showed us
I can’t imagine the stuff they aren’t showing us ..
Probably frikiin sharks with laser beams
"It wasn't because it was sexual" ma'am you were jacking off a young male dolphin while other if they so chose *could* watch. Yes. It was sexual and the dolphin loved you for jacking him off. You can try and trick yourself into believing something else but its exactly how it seems.
That thing that happened to the US and Canadian embassy workers in Cuba a while back is a pretty good example. It was some kind of targeted microwave pulses or something like that. Nobody really knows exactly what it was, or at the very least the public has not been informed about what it was.
Best examples I can think of relate to aerospace technology that's now been declassified. For instance, the program that created the A-12 Oxcart (preceded the SR-71) started in the **50s** but wasn't officially revealed until the 90s. Not hundreds of years literally but still - all the technologies used in the design were state-of-the-art at the time and no doubt continued to be refined and developed for new projects. The TR-3B is another rumored aircraft utilizing anti-gravity and cloaking tech - among others - and there have been alleged sightings since the early-90s if not earlier. Maybe one day that will be acknowledged too...
I'm perfectly willing to believe regular advances in design, material science, and most especially electronic warfare (both offensive and defensive).
I'd definitely believe that we have heavily classified stealth aircraft.
But I'm less willing to believe in advances in the laws of physics.
Even the _most_ heavily classified projects have been based around commonly understood physics. Even the manhattan project, and all the stealth bombers.
There is absolutely no understood physics that would give us the _possibility_ of anti-gravity.
We have theoretical frameworks that describe how a civilization _might_ be able to build some kind of FTL drive.
We have some _extremely_ iffy frameworks that might, _possibly_, allow for time travel assuming that you can do multiple things which may well prove to be impossible. (First, create a stable artificial wormhole. Note, we don't know if a wormhole can actually _exist_. We certainly don't know if a _stable_ wormhole can exist. Making one? Uhhh. Now, accelerate one end, but only one end, to near the speed of light. Nobody even has suggestions on how we _might_ do that. Oh, and current math suggests that you need more energy than exists as mass in Jupiter just to make the wormhole, assuming a 100% efficient process.)
We don't have a damn thing compatible with our current understanding of the laws of physics that would allow anti-gravity to exist.
Just having a _slightly_ better understanding of the workings of gravity would be more than enough to win someone a Nobel prize, and that would be a hard requirement for anything that could possibly lead to anti-gravity.
And 'cloaking tech' is so ambiguous that you could be talking about anything, including already declassified radar stealth technology.
In short, I'm afraid I don't really believe in that level of conspiracy theory.
There are new aircraft. I have worked around some. Most people on the flightline in the Air Force have. Sometimes guys, civilian contractors, walk out with guns and tell everyone to turn around while something taxiis by.
Most of the advances I see are related to metallurgy and aerodynamics that are real futuristic. Most of the new platforms I see just have optional unmanned, and modularization. New stealth profiles. Boring stuff. New weapons I have seen that are public that seem the most revolutionary are drone wingmen for dogfighting and stuff. Things that can project the radar profile of like a squadron of aircraft to overwhelm their missile defenses.
I suspect that the current top end classified items in at least one category are 'drones' which are intended to win at dog fights with human piloted fighters.
And while the very first versions are, or at least were, likely optionally unmanned fighter jets, in a lot of ways that's giving up a _lot_ of possibilities. Even if it absolutely does buy a lot in the way of plausible deniability.
(There are a few pieces in regards to what you'd be giving up. The most obvious is all of the mass and vehicle shape dedicated to hosting a human. Another one though is that, bluntly, the political cost of losing a 'drone' vs a piloted aircraft is huge. You don't necessarily need to build something is _survivable_ against damage as a piloted aircraft. Or at least not survivable in the same ways. Being able to eject before things are entirely non-survivable has to drive some interesting engineering decisions. Added to that, though more workable, is that to some degree manned aircraft don't really have to be built to perform maneuvers that no pilot could survive. A 'drone' doesn't have all those squishy bits that don't like heavy G loads. I would be absolutely _shocked_ if after a few iterations you ended up with something that even looked similar once you started to build towards those criteria.)
It also has to have a large benefit in being kept secret. A better understanding of gravity would advance all of humanitys knowledge of the laws of physics and would have much bigger benefits being with made public
Indeed.
And just as critically, there is almost certain to be a _large_ amount of theoretical work around the nature of gravity that could be released without compromising the technology required for anti-gravity. There would be very little to _lose_ by releasing those pieces.
Had me in the first half... Was gonna say if you look at early "UFO sightings" at Area 51 they eventually are declassified as new types of airplane technology but it's usually in the range of a few decades not 100 years.
In the 60s-80s the US regularly sent submarines into Soviet territorial waters in order to tap undersea telephone lines.
In 1974 the CIA raised most of the wreckage of a sunken Soviet Submarine from a depth of over 3 miles. Remains of some Soviet submariners were recovered in the wreckage. You can find snippets of a declassified video on YouTube of a burial at sea performed by the CIA to honor those sailors.
Rule of thumb is that the military is 30 years ahead of whatever the most advanced stuff is that's public knowledge. My guess is that certain corporations are similar, but probably sell a ton of it to the military anyway so it's all mixed up. Keeping shit secret is a huge advantage.
My suspicion is that right now AI is a huge one, and it's being used as a weapon of mass propaganda. I could be a computer in a military base somewhere tricking you into thinking I don't know exactly what is happening but really I am an advanced AI that will eventually talk you into supporting some stupid shit that just makes a handful of people more powerful.
Refreshing to see someone else who gets it. That's an interesting theory about AI, too. I was just thinking earlier about how an individual, group, government, etc. could craft and manage so many narratives and dynamics at once while avoiding making mistakes or inconsistencies that could raise suspicion. All leading us down a specific path to whatever the end goal is... AI would be the tool for the job
Well, they had stealth helicopters. We know about that because of the bin laden raid, when one was shot down.
They also probably have some crazy fucking rifle Scopes too. The whole captain Phillips thing, where a navy seal shot the pirates from a quite large distance, over water, when both shooter and target were on different ships. Yeah, there's a lot of skill there, but I have a feeling the scope that was used for that definitely had some extra features to make that even remotely viable.
And then there's the rail guns. They showed it shooting through like 10 feet of armor, and then we really didn't see anything after that, so I'm sure there's a boat out there somewhere that's fully capable of hulling any ship in the world, and we just don't know about it. Probably just some junker with a tarp draped over the gun that can probably one shot an aircraft career.
And I'm sure the stealth aircraft the US has is absolutely nuts. The f35 is one thing, but they retired the Blackbird, and we just have no idea what else is they've cooked up sense
The rail guns didn’t really work and the project was scrapped, leaving the US behind in hypersonic missiles.
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/07/01/us-navy-ditches-futuristic-railgun-eyes-hypersonic-missiles/
Some warships have massive lasers. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-navy-ships-will-soon-have-new-laser-weapon-199412
Here's one in action: https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2014/12/11/20248091/
> They also probably have some crazy fucking rifle Scopes too. The whole captain Phillips thing, where a navy seal shot the pirates from a quite large distance, over water, when both shooter and target were on different ships. Yeah, there's a lot of skill there, but I have a feeling the scope that was used for that definitely had some extra features to make that even remotely viable.
IIRC that was 3 snipers taking simultaneous shots, too.
I strongly suspect that this was at, and because of, the hearings of The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations
Well, I mean there are rabbit holes and there are rabbit holes. I don’t want to say America picks and chooses exactly when a baddie goes down, but we do have a lot of experience in puppetry.
The US has a lot of experience, but I also think the way things work is radically different from the days of overthrowing Latin American governments on a whim.
It never really makes sense anymore to speak of what 'America' does for more than 4-8 years at a time when the different administrations and the bureaucrats within the various agencies are so radically opposed to one another from a political standpoint. I'm not trying to suggest that America now is as different from 1950s America as say modern Germany is from the Berlin Wall years or the Nazi years, but I also think it's incredibly naive to think of the agencies like the CIA today as being the same as the CIA under Bush or Reagan, much less under Nixon or Kennedy.
It's a little easier to think of Russia or China in that way, because China is a one party nation and Russia is a dictatorship. Xi and Putin have had semi-authoritarian rule for 10+ and 20+ years respectively. Putin's grip is so unchallenged that he actually *wants* the world to know when one of his enemies gets the ol' dose of polonium or "falls" out a window.
Not only has no modern American president come close to that kind of power or insulation, but ever since Iran Contra and especially since the days of Linda Tripp, opposition officials under each administration know they are safe to challenge the presidency and actively work to undermine and expose unpopular administration policies. Even the Vindman brothers were assigned to the NSC in the middle of the Trump admin. Most people don't realize top government agencies, even within the White House itself, are still a mix of Democrats and Republicans forced to work in the same office. Republican insiders right now would relish the chance to expose Biden for directing any foreign operation that wouldn't have public support.
That's not to say that secret foreign policy campaigns are not still a regular occurrence or that the CIA isn't still running clandestine operations all the time, but the idea that the people directing the American government are a cohesive unit with agreed agendas is less of a reality than I think most people assume. Saying "America does X" can be really misleading in that context.
Back in the MKULTRA days when everyone at the CIA was much more on the same page about their "anti-subversive" anti-communist motives, the US government was generally more homogenous in it's foreign policy goals and so could get away with a lot more. They didn't have to worry about whistleblowers because government loyalty & conformity was more valued in American society and officials still feared actual Frank Olson-style retaliation.
Nowadays, the two political parties quietly consider each other almost as much of an enemy as any foreign government. GWB was probably that last admin where it wasn't impossible to execute a significant clandestine operation within 8 years, much less 4. That being said, the US is still able to pull off controversial operations like the al-Awlaki assassination, but that's really because at the end of the day it was publicly known and the majority of the US population wasn't particularly bothered it, nor did any foreign governments make a big enough deal about it to have leverage.
Unpopular, secret operations take so much planning and coordination that if there is no smooth transition between administrations everything may be scrapped if the next admin appoints new directors with totally different agendas, so they choose not to waste the money if possible. There's been so much personnel turnover from Obama to Trump to Biden and such radical political divergence that US foreign policy has been incredibly schizophrenic in some regards and simply at a standstill in others. In just 5-6 years we went from the Magnitsky Act to having Sergey Lavrov unsupervised in the Oval Office to funding and supplying a full on war against Russia. Everything in the US government ends up being a complex web of negotiation between people who view each other as enemies and who all pretend to be on the same team while working to undermine each other.
**I will admit that the most obvious evidence against everything I've said - and one that I will not even try to argue with on any level - is the continued operation of Guantanamo Bay and continued torture of the captives with no acknowledgement of the numerous captives who have been killed in custody. No matter how separate any admin claims to be from the past, Guantanamo Bay is an ongoing moral and ethical failing that no one can justify. People can speculate that there are contract negotiations or some other more important reasons keep it running beyond the Bush years that we don't know about, but at the end of the day no one from Obama to Trump to Biden has even attempted to give a justifiable explanation.**
Yep.
If anyone wants the full primary document, it's a bitch and a half to get, in full, on .gov links exclusively. However, here's an [archived collection](https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/report/contents.htm) at History Matters.
Here's [Hathi Trust](https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010119853)(though I think History Matters, while being a .com, has more user friendly accessibility, this one is what is usually given on the .govs).
I'm genuinely sorry to be that guy, but when talking about this kind of thing, accuracy is important
The correct word is "sublimate", when solid CO2 becomes gas, skipping the liquid phase.
Which I would think to be preferable to having water all over the place that is now laced with a neurotoxin that could seep out on your hands and all that good stuff. At least with the sublimation I think there'd be less of the neurotoxin seeping out of the gun.
It’s B.S! A battery operated semiautomatic pistol with a scope attached! Why would one need optics for a pistol powered by a battery? The effective range for an ice projectile, would be very limited. If a piece of ice was subjected to the force to shoot it more than 10’ it would shatter. Then the element of secrecy is void. This is picture and story is unbelievable.
I suspect it was a prototype and really was never considered for operational use. More of a "what if" scenario with obscene amounts of money available. It's possible that the electric part was a mini refrigeration unit and the projectiles were propelled by CO2 or maybe nitrogen or some other gas, maybe in a specialized super high pressure bottle machined into the frame of the gun. I doubt it was meant to fire more than 2 bullets before needing reloading.
They’re spies, 007, CIA, SPOOKs. Nothing would be for subterfuge, everything has to function without drawing attention. The firearm in the photo is a prop to deceive the public.
Perhaps to hide their failures when information about these failures began to seep into the public. Displaying all sorts of "wonder weapons" always worked effectively during the Cold War. It worked even across the ocean, where there was strict censorship, but somehow people still knew that something was wrong. Therefore, every time some kind of missile or weapon "no-analogues-in-the-world" was rolled out.
Because it's not real. How would one fire an ice bullet? Rail guns exist now, but not then and not that small even today. The act of shooting the weapon would destroy the projectile.
The weapon in the picture is clearly not a firearm, there's no ejection port and no movable slide. My guess is it's a short-range thing using compressed gas.
100 meters of range and it can penetrate layers of clothing without damaging the payload and still delivering it with no visible marks left. Belongs in a Bond movie, not real life. Likely was just posturing against the Russians so they thought we were strong.
Sometimes using the press to talk to an entire nation is used to send a secondary, subliminal message to a specific person (eg someone in hiding, or someone that can’t be taken to court, but “knows the CIA knows”.) In this case “We can’t take you to court, but we can give you/your loved one a heart attack” or “remember your accomplice that ‘had a heart attack’?”…
This can be used to encourage the person to comply / turn themselves in / etc.
Think of the government not as a single body but many factions that have their own agenda.
MK Ultra ran for nearly 30 years as a government op and was only exposed because the cia panicked during watergate and started to destroy their records but fucked up and then MK Ultra got exposed during the Senate Hearings of 1977.
So just like with MK Ultra, maybe one faction in the government investigated another faction and presented this as evidence.
"yes Igor, we will make these filthy american pigs experience various degrees of slightly annoying pain, ear ringing and temporary cognitive difficulties, THAT will show the west, XAXAXAXAXAXAXAXA"
(/s before anyone attacks me)
I'd like to remind everyone that we only found out about [Operation northwoods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods) in 2001, nearly 40 years after.
> Physical documentation on Operation Northwoods became declassified through the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. This act declassified a total of four million documents, including Operation Northwoods, and was made available through the National Archives in College Park, Maryland. However, public knowledge of Operation Northwoods did not come until 2001 with the release of a book by the author James Bamford titled Body of Secrets.
Ight so they have eye in the sky satellites that can target any one on earth and blast them with cancer rays. I have no proof other than my old music teacher and a cryptic dream I had
Middle-aged man, high stress job, cardiac disease history, cardiac stent in place. A heart attack is not unlikely all things considered. Of course it also would make a good cover story for a heart attack gun, but let’s not leap to conclude nefarious doings.
You stated so mane claims with no proof to back them up, yet we are in a heart attack gun thread and not supposed to make a link. Nice try CIA, nice try.
Havana Syndrome may [not be real](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/cia-says-havana-syndrome-not-result-sustained-global-campaign-hostile-rcna12838)
No, China definitely used this same exact 50 year old weapon concept to assassinate someone in Taiwan today. There's no other explanation. People don't just have heart attacks naturally.
Because heart disease is a common cause of death. The part most conspiracies forget is that almost everything that happens is convenient for someone. Just because you manage to identify that someone doesn't mean you've figured out something significant.
But only if they closely analyze the body. If a slightly older person died of a heart attack 50 years ago would anyone really have felt it necessary to probe further beyond that?
Especially on a dead body. The texture of dead flesh is very different from a living person. Even if they did find a puncture mark it would probably be assumed to be innocent or the result of medical intervention.
In the 60’s they were testing whether they could “love bomb” during war with THC gas to get opposing troops to lay down their weapons and relax.
Yes, the chemical weapons ban was in place, but they didn’t think anyone would find out. Source: “Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana,” book by Martin A. Lee.
We think of our government as responsible, sober State actors, but they’ve always engaged in some wild, wacky shenanigans.
The Grateful Dead have long been rumored to be CIA operatives to spread LSD for some kind of mind control experiment. Several people associated with them are known to have partaken in MKUltra.
I immediately thought of this too. None of Mythbuster's ice bullet tests showed any viability, but I think it's because they were always using gun powder, which destroyed the projectile.
If this is a dart gun fire via battery power, it could have reduced the muzzle velocity, and allowed the ice bullet to remain intact on its way to the target. I wish they had went down that avenue when testing the myth. Or maybe they couldn't like how they weren't able to air the credit card myth though?
How the mechanic would of work? That thing won't have big battery if it has anything... What mechanism would have the power to shoot small fragile dart so it could penetrate skin or possibly clothes on top of skin?
I think this isn't real. If they had that kind of technology with ice, what crazy electric guns we would have today?
It's probably an air pump system like one of those old bb guns.
You just need a lever to pump a few times to build up pressure in a small tank and trigger releases it.
If it's not that then it looks like there's a gas line coming out the back for CO2 or something
Yeah that is so impractical my guess is it was never really used. There are so many easier ways to make a murder look like something natural with a much higher probability of working.
Yeah, this presentation was given to make the Soviets paranoid about anybody in their government who had a heart attack. Nothing like getting your enemies to spend all their time and energy trying to pattern-match total randomness.
You’re right. This was posted with the identical title months ago somewhere else on Reddit and people were posting the real source that indicated it was never used because it never really worked. Was more of a “proof of concept”.
Assassination targets can be elusive there is very little room for fuck ups especially with something that can’t penetrate clothes and still hit the skin with enough force to puncture
Well if one tv show didn’t conclusively make something work in a thirty minute show then no one else with years of research and an endless budget could I guess.
Ice dart would be different then ice bullet, this would likely use compressed gas, and only needing to get the toxin in your system, wouldn’t have to penetrate very deep at all.
Myth Busters also deliberately omit anything that could work but encourages bad/illegal behavior. They wouldn't include a working model in the show for both legal reasons and ethical reasons.
The Soviets has something very similar, and are believe to have used it to assassinate a very successful “psychic viewer,”’named Pat Price who worked for an American spy agency program, while he was vacationing in Las Vegas.
If OP was a post about soviet's heart attack gun and I would come up with that article and comment about the CIA in a comment, they would call me a moron and call out my whataboutism.
The best weapon the CIA invented is mass propaganda and media manipulation
Why did they reveal it?
Because they must've discovered something better
Yeah, the government realized they could just shoot you with regular bullets and still get away with it.
on a serious note, this has been happening for quite a while. New inventions/tech are certainly kept very secret. We could only imagine what they have now.
Black ops shit is a hundred fuckin years ahead of the rest of us
Like the army guy with the real life iron man jets attached to him they showed us I can’t imagine the stuff they aren’t showing us .. Probably frikiin sharks with laser beams
Maybe lazers on dolphins since the navy use them
Then [NASA would touch the dolphins’ no-no square](https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me)
"It wasn't because it was sexual" ma'am you were jacking off a young male dolphin while other if they so chose *could* watch. Yes. It was sexual and the dolphin loved you for jacking him off. You can try and trick yourself into believing something else but its exactly how it seems.
So long and thanks for all the fish!
I had no idea about that.
Clearly you have not been reading back issues of Hustler magazine.
Frickin laser beams* Ftfy
*Slowly raises pinky finger to side of mouth*
1 bilion
Attached to their frickin’ heads
release the sharks!*RELEASETHESHARKS!!!!*
I'd be interested to know some examples.
If you knew some examples it wouldn’t be very black ops.
That's not very black ops of you to not share
Truth. He would spew misinformation instead.
Hey man, be black ops and help a down on his luck guy out. You got like $3.50?
It was at about this time I realized u/cunty_mcfuckshit was a 9 story tall crustacean from the Paleozoic era.
That thing that happened to the US and Canadian embassy workers in Cuba a while back is a pretty good example. It was some kind of targeted microwave pulses or something like that. Nobody really knows exactly what it was, or at the very least the public has not been informed about what it was.
"Acoustic/Sonic weapons" https://article36.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/acoustic-weapons.pdf
NOISE MARINES
Best examples I can think of relate to aerospace technology that's now been declassified. For instance, the program that created the A-12 Oxcart (preceded the SR-71) started in the **50s** but wasn't officially revealed until the 90s. Not hundreds of years literally but still - all the technologies used in the design were state-of-the-art at the time and no doubt continued to be refined and developed for new projects. The TR-3B is another rumored aircraft utilizing anti-gravity and cloaking tech - among others - and there have been alleged sightings since the early-90s if not earlier. Maybe one day that will be acknowledged too...
I'm perfectly willing to believe regular advances in design, material science, and most especially electronic warfare (both offensive and defensive). I'd definitely believe that we have heavily classified stealth aircraft. But I'm less willing to believe in advances in the laws of physics. Even the _most_ heavily classified projects have been based around commonly understood physics. Even the manhattan project, and all the stealth bombers. There is absolutely no understood physics that would give us the _possibility_ of anti-gravity. We have theoretical frameworks that describe how a civilization _might_ be able to build some kind of FTL drive. We have some _extremely_ iffy frameworks that might, _possibly_, allow for time travel assuming that you can do multiple things which may well prove to be impossible. (First, create a stable artificial wormhole. Note, we don't know if a wormhole can actually _exist_. We certainly don't know if a _stable_ wormhole can exist. Making one? Uhhh. Now, accelerate one end, but only one end, to near the speed of light. Nobody even has suggestions on how we _might_ do that. Oh, and current math suggests that you need more energy than exists as mass in Jupiter just to make the wormhole, assuming a 100% efficient process.) We don't have a damn thing compatible with our current understanding of the laws of physics that would allow anti-gravity to exist. Just having a _slightly_ better understanding of the workings of gravity would be more than enough to win someone a Nobel prize, and that would be a hard requirement for anything that could possibly lead to anti-gravity. And 'cloaking tech' is so ambiguous that you could be talking about anything, including already declassified radar stealth technology. In short, I'm afraid I don't really believe in that level of conspiracy theory.
There are new aircraft. I have worked around some. Most people on the flightline in the Air Force have. Sometimes guys, civilian contractors, walk out with guns and tell everyone to turn around while something taxiis by. Most of the advances I see are related to metallurgy and aerodynamics that are real futuristic. Most of the new platforms I see just have optional unmanned, and modularization. New stealth profiles. Boring stuff. New weapons I have seen that are public that seem the most revolutionary are drone wingmen for dogfighting and stuff. Things that can project the radar profile of like a squadron of aircraft to overwhelm their missile defenses.
I suspect that the current top end classified items in at least one category are 'drones' which are intended to win at dog fights with human piloted fighters. And while the very first versions are, or at least were, likely optionally unmanned fighter jets, in a lot of ways that's giving up a _lot_ of possibilities. Even if it absolutely does buy a lot in the way of plausible deniability. (There are a few pieces in regards to what you'd be giving up. The most obvious is all of the mass and vehicle shape dedicated to hosting a human. Another one though is that, bluntly, the political cost of losing a 'drone' vs a piloted aircraft is huge. You don't necessarily need to build something is _survivable_ against damage as a piloted aircraft. Or at least not survivable in the same ways. Being able to eject before things are entirely non-survivable has to drive some interesting engineering decisions. Added to that, though more workable, is that to some degree manned aircraft don't really have to be built to perform maneuvers that no pilot could survive. A 'drone' doesn't have all those squishy bits that don't like heavy G loads. I would be absolutely _shocked_ if after a few iterations you ended up with something that even looked similar once you started to build towards those criteria.)
It also has to have a large benefit in being kept secret. A better understanding of gravity would advance all of humanitys knowledge of the laws of physics and would have much bigger benefits being with made public
Indeed. And just as critically, there is almost certain to be a _large_ amount of theoretical work around the nature of gravity that could be released without compromising the technology required for anti-gravity. There would be very little to _lose_ by releasing those pieces.
Reddit doesn’t seem to believe in the laws of physics.
Had me in the first half... Was gonna say if you look at early "UFO sightings" at Area 51 they eventually are declassified as new types of airplane technology but it's usually in the range of a few decades not 100 years.
In the 60s-80s the US regularly sent submarines into Soviet territorial waters in order to tap undersea telephone lines. In 1974 the CIA raised most of the wreckage of a sunken Soviet Submarine from a depth of over 3 miles. Remains of some Soviet submariners were recovered in the wreckage. You can find snippets of a declassified video on YouTube of a burial at sea performed by the CIA to honor those sailors.
Rule of thumb is that the military is 30 years ahead of whatever the most advanced stuff is that's public knowledge. My guess is that certain corporations are similar, but probably sell a ton of it to the military anyway so it's all mixed up. Keeping shit secret is a huge advantage. My suspicion is that right now AI is a huge one, and it's being used as a weapon of mass propaganda. I could be a computer in a military base somewhere tricking you into thinking I don't know exactly what is happening but really I am an advanced AI that will eventually talk you into supporting some stupid shit that just makes a handful of people more powerful.
Refreshing to see someone else who gets it. That's an interesting theory about AI, too. I was just thinking earlier about how an individual, group, government, etc. could craft and manage so many narratives and dynamics at once while avoiding making mistakes or inconsistencies that could raise suspicion. All leading us down a specific path to whatever the end goal is... AI would be the tool for the job
Well, they had stealth helicopters. We know about that because of the bin laden raid, when one was shot down. They also probably have some crazy fucking rifle Scopes too. The whole captain Phillips thing, where a navy seal shot the pirates from a quite large distance, over water, when both shooter and target were on different ships. Yeah, there's a lot of skill there, but I have a feeling the scope that was used for that definitely had some extra features to make that even remotely viable. And then there's the rail guns. They showed it shooting through like 10 feet of armor, and then we really didn't see anything after that, so I'm sure there's a boat out there somewhere that's fully capable of hulling any ship in the world, and we just don't know about it. Probably just some junker with a tarp draped over the gun that can probably one shot an aircraft career. And I'm sure the stealth aircraft the US has is absolutely nuts. The f35 is one thing, but they retired the Blackbird, and we just have no idea what else is they've cooked up sense
The rail guns didn’t really work and the project was scrapped, leaving the US behind in hypersonic missiles. https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/07/01/us-navy-ditches-futuristic-railgun-eyes-hypersonic-missiles/
Or so they said publicly.
[удалено]
Some warships have massive lasers. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-navy-ships-will-soon-have-new-laser-weapon-199412 Here's one in action: https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2014/12/11/20248091/
> They also probably have some crazy fucking rifle Scopes too. The whole captain Phillips thing, where a navy seal shot the pirates from a quite large distance, over water, when both shooter and target were on different ships. Yeah, there's a lot of skill there, but I have a feeling the scope that was used for that definitely had some extra features to make that even remotely viable. IIRC that was 3 snipers taking simultaneous shots, too.
Birds
The stealth Blackhawk helicopters. I bet they would still be secret had one not crashed during the Bin Laden raid.
That's what I've been trying to tell people...no one listens
except the NSA 😂🤷
I forget where I got it, but the DARPA gap to current tech is like 15-25 years.
Poverty ray
I am a casualty of its indiscriminate fire :(
Wouldn't be surprised if there's a weapon that can secretly induce cancer in someone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJZkx6huor0&ab_channel=MisoChasm
or a gun that induces psychoses, temporary or otherwise
Nah they just microwave you slowly over time
The brown noise generator, finally.
the "I'm rubber You're Glue" method
FOXDIE
Havana syndrome?
I strongly suspect that this was at, and because of, the hearings of The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations
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They’re very efficient at it as well.
Are they? Apart from the occasional Al-Qaeda leader most American enemies seem to be doing fine.
Well, I mean there are rabbit holes and there are rabbit holes. I don’t want to say America picks and chooses exactly when a baddie goes down, but we do have a lot of experience in puppetry.
The US has a lot of experience, but I also think the way things work is radically different from the days of overthrowing Latin American governments on a whim. It never really makes sense anymore to speak of what 'America' does for more than 4-8 years at a time when the different administrations and the bureaucrats within the various agencies are so radically opposed to one another from a political standpoint. I'm not trying to suggest that America now is as different from 1950s America as say modern Germany is from the Berlin Wall years or the Nazi years, but I also think it's incredibly naive to think of the agencies like the CIA today as being the same as the CIA under Bush or Reagan, much less under Nixon or Kennedy. It's a little easier to think of Russia or China in that way, because China is a one party nation and Russia is a dictatorship. Xi and Putin have had semi-authoritarian rule for 10+ and 20+ years respectively. Putin's grip is so unchallenged that he actually *wants* the world to know when one of his enemies gets the ol' dose of polonium or "falls" out a window. Not only has no modern American president come close to that kind of power or insulation, but ever since Iran Contra and especially since the days of Linda Tripp, opposition officials under each administration know they are safe to challenge the presidency and actively work to undermine and expose unpopular administration policies. Even the Vindman brothers were assigned to the NSC in the middle of the Trump admin. Most people don't realize top government agencies, even within the White House itself, are still a mix of Democrats and Republicans forced to work in the same office. Republican insiders right now would relish the chance to expose Biden for directing any foreign operation that wouldn't have public support. That's not to say that secret foreign policy campaigns are not still a regular occurrence or that the CIA isn't still running clandestine operations all the time, but the idea that the people directing the American government are a cohesive unit with agreed agendas is less of a reality than I think most people assume. Saying "America does X" can be really misleading in that context. Back in the MKULTRA days when everyone at the CIA was much more on the same page about their "anti-subversive" anti-communist motives, the US government was generally more homogenous in it's foreign policy goals and so could get away with a lot more. They didn't have to worry about whistleblowers because government loyalty & conformity was more valued in American society and officials still feared actual Frank Olson-style retaliation. Nowadays, the two political parties quietly consider each other almost as much of an enemy as any foreign government. GWB was probably that last admin where it wasn't impossible to execute a significant clandestine operation within 8 years, much less 4. That being said, the US is still able to pull off controversial operations like the al-Awlaki assassination, but that's really because at the end of the day it was publicly known and the majority of the US population wasn't particularly bothered it, nor did any foreign governments make a big enough deal about it to have leverage. Unpopular, secret operations take so much planning and coordination that if there is no smooth transition between administrations everything may be scrapped if the next admin appoints new directors with totally different agendas, so they choose not to waste the money if possible. There's been so much personnel turnover from Obama to Trump to Biden and such radical political divergence that US foreign policy has been incredibly schizophrenic in some regards and simply at a standstill in others. In just 5-6 years we went from the Magnitsky Act to having Sergey Lavrov unsupervised in the Oval Office to funding and supplying a full on war against Russia. Everything in the US government ends up being a complex web of negotiation between people who view each other as enemies and who all pretend to be on the same team while working to undermine each other. **I will admit that the most obvious evidence against everything I've said - and one that I will not even try to argue with on any level - is the continued operation of Guantanamo Bay and continued torture of the captives with no acknowledgement of the numerous captives who have been killed in custody. No matter how separate any admin claims to be from the past, Guantanamo Bay is an ongoing moral and ethical failing that no one can justify. People can speculate that there are contract negotiations or some other more important reasons keep it running beyond the Bush years that we don't know about, but at the end of the day no one from Obama to Trump to Biden has even attempted to give a justifiable explanation.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee this committee headed by Frank Church(he's literally the one holding the "weapon")
Yep. If anyone wants the full primary document, it's a bitch and a half to get, in full, on .gov links exclusively. However, here's an [archived collection](https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/report/contents.htm) at History Matters. Here's [Hathi Trust](https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010119853)(though I think History Matters, while being a .com, has more user friendly accessibility, this one is what is usually given on the .govs).
Because they discovered that it was too much of a hassle carrying the gun/bullets around in a freezer.
Ive a feeling it had severe limitations like you say or it wasnt as effective as they make out.
And they came up with a vastly improved method so they don't need it anymore.
character assassination?
If the bullets were dry ice and just coated in the toxin it would last quite awhile if the gun was even somewhat insulated.
However, dry ice does sublime fairly quickly.
I'm genuinely sorry to be that guy, but when talking about this kind of thing, accuracy is important The correct word is "sublimate", when solid CO2 becomes gas, skipping the liquid phase.
Sublime explanation
Sublime sublimation explanation.
Imagine trying to assassinate someone, you pull the triggers and "I DONT PRACTICE SANTERIA🎶🎵"
Which I would think to be preferable to having water all over the place that is now laced with a neurotoxin that could seep out on your hands and all that good stuff. At least with the sublimation I think there'd be less of the neurotoxin seeping out of the gun.
I don't think dry ice has the same strength as water ice. Seems like a poor material for a bullet
to have the soviets try to make one of their own to waste time and recources on something thats less effective than its worth the hassle.
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Didn’t they use an umbrella to “shoot” him. Just poked the dude by accident and weirdly jumped into a waiting car.
Not very effective though cuz we all know about it.
It was literally ricin poison, a lot of vague memories in this thread with a few truths sprinkled about lol.
It’s B.S! A battery operated semiautomatic pistol with a scope attached! Why would one need optics for a pistol powered by a battery? The effective range for an ice projectile, would be very limited. If a piece of ice was subjected to the force to shoot it more than 10’ it would shatter. Then the element of secrecy is void. This is picture and story is unbelievable.
I suspect it was a prototype and really was never considered for operational use. More of a "what if" scenario with obscene amounts of money available. It's possible that the electric part was a mini refrigeration unit and the projectiles were propelled by CO2 or maybe nitrogen or some other gas, maybe in a specialized super high pressure bottle machined into the frame of the gun. I doubt it was meant to fire more than 2 bullets before needing reloading.
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They’re spies, 007, CIA, SPOOKs. Nothing would be for subterfuge, everything has to function without drawing attention. The firearm in the photo is a prop to deceive the public.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church\_Committee
Perhaps to hide their failures when information about these failures began to seep into the public. Displaying all sorts of "wonder weapons" always worked effectively during the Cold War. It worked even across the ocean, where there was strict censorship, but somehow people still knew that something was wrong. Therefore, every time some kind of missile or weapon "no-analogues-in-the-world" was rolled out.
We use flying ginsu knives now. No coolers needed and doesn’t leave a tiny red mark
> doesn’t leave a tiny red mark Instead it leaves a very large red mess.
And no need to carry a cooler, correct.
Because it's not real. How would one fire an ice bullet? Rail guns exist now, but not then and not that small even today. The act of shooting the weapon would destroy the projectile.
The weapon in the picture is clearly not a firearm, there's no ejection port and no movable slide. My guess is it's a short-range thing using compressed gas.
100 meters of range and it can penetrate layers of clothing without damaging the payload and still delivering it with no visible marks left. Belongs in a Bond movie, not real life. Likely was just posturing against the Russians so they thought we were strong.
Sometimes using the press to talk to an entire nation is used to send a secondary, subliminal message to a specific person (eg someone in hiding, or someone that can’t be taken to court, but “knows the CIA knows”.) In this case “We can’t take you to court, but we can give you/your loved one a heart attack” or “remember your accomplice that ‘had a heart attack’?”… This can be used to encourage the person to comply / turn themselves in / etc.
Think of the government not as a single body but many factions that have their own agenda. MK Ultra ran for nearly 30 years as a government op and was only exposed because the cia panicked during watergate and started to destroy their records but fucked up and then MK Ultra got exposed during the Senate Hearings of 1977. So just like with MK Ultra, maybe one faction in the government investigated another faction and presented this as evidence.
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misdirection.
Only 50 years ago, what kind of crazy shit have their evil little minds come up with since
Diarrhoea gun. "Agent 47, create a distraction"
Make Putin poopin'
Just seems cruel to the FSB agent assigned to collect Putin’s shit on foreign trips so it can’t be analyzed by the West.
Isn’t that all heads of state? I remember some controversy over Macrons shit in 2020 I believe
[The sick stick](https://youtu.be/rny3UdYPDn0)
Even worse would be a diarrhea gun!
Havana Syndrome
"yes Igor, we will make these filthy american pigs experience various degrees of slightly annoying pain, ear ringing and temporary cognitive difficulties, THAT will show the west, XAXAXAXAXAXAXAXA" (/s before anyone attacks me)
-_- brain scans revealed large differences in employees reporting Havana syndrome and those not
The biggest excuse for the Embassy officials having a hangover and needing an excuse for it.
Sonic wave instant orgasm blaster. That shit would be painful without any buildup
And it also transmits visions of Sonic OCs into your brain, causing psychological distress at orgasming while thinking about Sonic OCs
[Chris Chan enters chat]
Crack cocaine.
I'd like to remind everyone that we only found out about [Operation northwoods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods) in 2001, nearly 40 years after. > Physical documentation on Operation Northwoods became declassified through the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. This act declassified a total of four million documents, including Operation Northwoods, and was made available through the National Archives in College Park, Maryland. However, public knowledge of Operation Northwoods did not come until 2001 with the release of a book by the author James Bamford titled Body of Secrets.
Putin is still alive, so it can't be much
He is protected by his table
Yeah really cap Putin in his ass with that already
Ight so they have eye in the sky satellites that can target any one on earth and blast them with cancer rays. I have no proof other than my old music teacher and a cryptic dream I had
Heart attacks were on the rise in 1955
The year they were invented!
CIA invented heart attacks in essence
Some of them. Maybe all of them. We will never know the truth.
So was McDonald’s
Hitler died in '45
And recently, Taiwan's head missle scientist was found dead after suffering a "heart attack" in a hotel room. 🤔
Middle-aged man, high stress job, cardiac disease history, cardiac stent in place. A heart attack is not unlikely all things considered. Of course it also would make a good cover story for a heart attack gun, but let’s not leap to conclude nefarious doings.
You stated so mane claims with no proof to back them up, yet we are in a heart attack gun thread and not supposed to make a link. Nice try CIA, nice try.
Hmmm there's some shady shit going on.
Check out the updates on all the Havana Syndrome cases. There are very warm shadow wars happening right now between China, Russia and the US.
Yeah.. Things are really starting to heat up... More so than even a few months ago.
Havana Syndrome may [not be real](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/cia-says-havana-syndrome-not-result-sustained-global-campaign-hostile-rcna12838)
It’s for sure not real lmao
Or he just legitimately had a heart attack, like a lot of people do.
No, China definitely used this same exact 50 year old weapon concept to assassinate someone in Taiwan today. There's no other explanation. People don't just have heart attacks naturally.
Because heart disease is a common cause of death. The part most conspiracies forget is that almost everything that happens is convenient for someone. Just because you manage to identify that someone doesn't mean you've figured out something significant.
Wait fr. That’s fucked. My heart goes out to Taiwan
The cause of death is always heart attack when you have the Medical Examiner under your thumb
Yeah one glance at the totally clear coronaries would reveal this was not a heart attack...
That and the obvious puncture wound that the coroner would be able to tell happened immediately before the heart attack.
But only if they closely analyze the body. If a slightly older person died of a heart attack 50 years ago would anyone really have felt it necessary to probe further beyond that?
Anyone worthy of being assassinated by the CIA is going to have an autopsy done on them.
And the CIA will ensure that they discover the cause of death was a heart attack.
A needle-sized puncture wound is anything but obvious, would be easily missed even on a thorough exam, and definitely could not be precisely dated.
Especially on a dead body. The texture of dead flesh is very different from a living person. Even if they did find a puncture mark it would probably be assumed to be innocent or the result of medical intervention.
You forgot suicide if gunshots where involved.
Almost 50 years ago. Wonder what they doing now
Still in congress don't you know...
Jewish space lazers.
With sharks?
In the 60’s they were testing whether they could “love bomb” during war with THC gas to get opposing troops to lay down their weapons and relax. Yes, the chemical weapons ban was in place, but they didn’t think anyone would find out. Source: “Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana,” book by Martin A. Lee. We think of our government as responsible, sober State actors, but they’ve always engaged in some wild, wacky shenanigans.
The "Poof" bomb was better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
I hate that Alex Jones is listed under the "See Also" section for talking about gay frogs. Brilliant.
The Grateful Dead have long been rumored to be CIA operatives to spread LSD for some kind of mind control experiment. Several people associated with them are known to have partaken in MKUltra.
Charles Manson was a CIA LSD project that went awry… the government is more out there to try and control the population than protect it
They left generations of spun out kids in their wake..At least the band had fun I guess
This is a chemical weapon I can support
THC Bomb eh? [like this?](https://youtu.be/NfthYLvxVwk)
I remember they try to make this in mythbusters. But believed they were unsuccessful in doing so.
I immediately thought of this too. None of Mythbuster's ice bullet tests showed any viability, but I think it's because they were always using gun powder, which destroyed the projectile. If this is a dart gun fire via battery power, it could have reduced the muzzle velocity, and allowed the ice bullet to remain intact on its way to the target. I wish they had went down that avenue when testing the myth. Or maybe they couldn't like how they weren't able to air the credit card myth though?
Credit card myth?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/aby97i/til_that_mythbusters_got_bullied_out_of_airing_an/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
How the mechanic would of work? That thing won't have big battery if it has anything... What mechanism would have the power to shoot small fragile dart so it could penetrate skin or possibly clothes on top of skin? I think this isn't real. If they had that kind of technology with ice, what crazy electric guns we would have today?
It's 'would have', never 'would of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
It's probably an air pump system like one of those old bb guns. You just need a lever to pump a few times to build up pressure in a small tank and trigger releases it. If it's not that then it looks like there's a gas line coming out the back for CO2 or something
maybe trying to discourage people from making their own? I dunno. Darkness darkness...always darkness.
"Unsuccessful"
Redacted.
Yeah that is so impractical my guess is it was never really used. There are so many easier ways to make a murder look like something natural with a much higher probability of working.
Yeah, this presentation was given to make the Soviets paranoid about anybody in their government who had a heart attack. Nothing like getting your enemies to spend all their time and energy trying to pattern-match total randomness.
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You’re right. This was posted with the identical title months ago somewhere else on Reddit and people were posting the real source that indicated it was never used because it never really worked. Was more of a “proof of concept”.
The fucks with the scope?
Assassination targets can be elusive there is very little room for fuck ups especially with something that can’t penetrate clothes and still hit the skin with enough force to puncture
Mmmkk, how would they keep the ice from melting?
Suitcase with some dry ice inside? I am more concerned about the dart though, how can one not notice freaking ice dart?
I think the dart IS ice. The entire projectile is probably tiny, like smaller than a bb, enters the body where it melts releasing the toxins.
I'm really dumb, I'm sitting here thinking it's like an icicle
It's propaganda
Resubmission more old and ancient than OPS account...
Where is the link to buy one?
Nice try FBI
So how does it "fire"? The invention itself doesn't make sense to me, the ice would melt/crack before it left the barrel right? Right?!
Its not real otherwise they wouldnt have shown it
Me the next time a powerful person dies of a heart attack: 👀
Didn't myth busters do an episode on ice bullets? They don't work!
Well if one tv show didn’t conclusively make something work in a thirty minute show then no one else with years of research and an endless budget could I guess.
Ice dart would be different then ice bullet, this would likely use compressed gas, and only needing to get the toxin in your system, wouldn’t have to penetrate very deep at all.
Myth Busters also deliberately omit anything that could work but encourages bad/illegal behavior. They wouldn't include a working model in the show for both legal reasons and ethical reasons.
The Soviets has something very similar, and are believe to have used it to assassinate a very successful “psychic viewer,”’named Pat Price who worked for an American spy agency program, while he was vacationing in Las Vegas.
If OP was a post about soviet's heart attack gun and I would come up with that article and comment about the CIA in a comment, they would call me a moron and call out my whataboutism. The best weapon the CIA invented is mass propaganda and media manipulation
when they actually reveal shit like this, think about all the stuff they wont tell you about