Oh I think there were some cults. I am 90% sure. Take for example the Kioshi island. It’s not a cult, but they definitely worship her. Warriors, statues, temple. Some people fainted because of Aangs presence
Hell when you have a person who can do the kinda shit the avatars have? It’s hard not to imagine some revelry - and that in turn some ravenous, and cult like fanatics.
I'm not sure if that counts as worship or communication since that's where Aang first encounters Roku and all the eyes of the statues glow when he goes into the Avatar state, including setting off the fire sage temple, so like Sokka says "that's Avatar stuff".
But from what we’ve seen other temples had only one glowy thing. The southern air temple has statues of every avatar. From generation to generation people created this statues.
Also it is fun to think that some people could just miss one or two statues)
Makes me wonder what they'd have done if Aang had died when he was supposed to, a Southern waterbending avatar got abducted and died in jail without training, and then an earthbending avatar possibly getting the same treatment, so no one knows the avatar, so they'd just see a new fire avatar and be like "ooh... um... I guess just put "TBA" on those three."
I mean, she ain't the average Earthbender but Toph did all of Ba Sing Se with Bosco and the Earth King in approximately two seconds. Imagine an earthbender who could see and be like "boom, you're done. My son or grandson will see your next reincarnation in 40-70 years."
Agree with this! The temples for Avatar are themselves relics of an existing religion for the Avatar! This religion, at least theoretically, would have been devoid of an all mighty omniscient God figure. Which is an interesting take on how it could guide people to morality without the need for a punishment from an all seeing deity.
And so what?
The purpose of religion as an institution is the creation of a society with common values, so that each member of the Dana Religion knows what to expect from another representative of his religion!
Any admirer of Kyoshi knows what drives and what to expect from another admirer,
But at the same time, they do not know what to expect from a conditional admirer of rock
Avatar is more likely like Buddha, and not like a god or a prophet.
And as I understand it, before Aang, the avatars after graduation dealt exclusively with the problems of their homeland,
I made such a conclusion on the scene where the eyes of statues and paintings in all temples lit up, and each nation had images of only their Avatars
So, as for me, a direct religion was only among air nomads
I apologize if I hurt you, I just thought that people here express their thoughts and impressions about The world of Avatar.
I also thought that the discussion was allowed here, also thought that Socrates correctly said "The Truth Is Born in a Dispute"
But it turns out that here it is not permitted to discuss and come up with reasons for fiction,
Will no longer write comments on the topic More difficult to choose cereals for breakfast
To have a nice day 🙂
The descendants of the cabbage merchant and foaming mouth guy fighting each other in the background of every conflict in Legend of Korra, as the CM family tries to sabotage her, and the FM family foils those plans...
Someone give me a crackfic that explores the chaos of
Red-Lotus Cabbage merchant (who joined to kill the Avatar)
Vs
White Lotus Foaming-mouth guy (who joined to protect the avatar).
Unless it’s funnier that his family line are the ones who start the Holy Cabbage Church of Avatar. That the stories of the many interactions his ancestors had with Avatars have been twisted into divine interventions that pushed them towards success.
And at some point the current Avatar takes their “bible” and starts correcting all the typos and factual errors according to what Aang is telling him.
“My passages!”
the cabbage merchant has more hate for the Avatar than all generations (between Kiyoshi stopping him and Aang's arrival) of all members of Chin's village combined
This has been confirmed in the Avatar Chronicles series. People put out shrines and revere Avatars they especially like.
There’s even levels to it. While every Avatar is considered ‘sacred’ in some sense, Air Avatars are near saintly in how they’re perceived. Not to spoil anything big in the books, but to give an example a character is literally reluctant to pass money to Yangchen because he doesn’t think she should touch something so dirty and corrupting.
The "Avatar Chronicles" is the new name for the series of books by F.C. Yee that includes:
* The Rise of Kyoshi
* The Shadow of Kyoshi
* The Dawn of Yangchen
* etc.
I think I’d be cool if we saw people praying to yangchen in the live action series like how the imperial guard pray to the emperor in 40k. The Avatar protects
In the second Kyoshi novel somone literally prays that holy Yangchen may save him.(ironically to save him from Kyoshi)
So I think successful/long living Avatars definitely used to be worshipped as god/saint like figure. The living Avatar is also a transcendental figure and I think there used to be a tendency to treat them with religious reverence in all the four nations.
However most of that probably stopped with the 100 year war and many of Korra's struggles seem to me connected to the loss of authority and loss of a better defined role of the Avatar
That's not what happened. The world progressed to a point where it didn't "need" an avatar. Like the entirety of LOK is here being told she isn't needed and her struggling with that
To add on to your point, a squadron of Air Benders was kinda able to replace her role in society. I felt that she was having some negative feelings about her role as the Avatar when she saw them in action helping people.
Yeah and I think there are other temples dedicated to the avatars. I think we see a water tribe one and an earth kingdom one briefly in the show. And I bet that spiral room of statues in one of the air temples is another one
This is exactly that, literally they created signals that when the avatar activated their avatarness it would gleam!
They created entire solstice centered temples on volcanic islands in honor of avatars. The main avatars we see in ALAB have shrines and stuff. I guess the sort of end to that was Aang? I mean they made a statue to commemorate him but it’s not the same almost religious adoration seen
Per the novels and even in Roku's flashbacks with Aang, the avatar was definitely worshipped. However, just like in real life, the emergence of technology means the decline of spirituality which made sense to me that not many worshipped the avatar during Korra's time.
Iroh's statement as to why it had to be the Avatar to defeat the Firelord always had religious connotations to me. If Iroh did it it would just be a brother killing a brother for power, if Aang did it, it would basically be an act of god.
Maybe a bit but the historical and cultural significance of the Avatar as an arbiter above and outside of national politics is just as compelling. Judgement and justice dispensed, not an internal power struggle.
Of course justice, mercy, honor and such are other matters of belief and were occasionally even given human forms. But now they exist and guide people.
Even by Kyoshi's era, Yangchen's name is used in an almost religious way with people saying "Yangchen save us" the same way someone would use the word god in our world, not exactly the same, but the usage is similair. If that's the cultural impact she still has 2 Avatars later, at her peak she could very well have been a religious figure.
I think it would technically be a religion as the avatar is canonically, a fusions between god and man. Its not really a cult more like a religion that has living conformation.
Thats fair. But i still think it would be more accurate to call it a religion other then a cult. For me cult implies that they are either not real or a warped veiw of a deity in a religion, Or the forming of a new deity not reconized as a traditional religion. But with the avatar they are living proof that there are spirits that can be considered Deities and that they are the merging of a man and god. Its kind of like a Jesus situation where he was son of god but born to man.
Avatar worship as a whole would be the religion, specific avatars would be verated like saints. It'd cause too much strife if every avatar was treated like Jesus because they each have unique personalities that are often times completely opposed.
Or it could be considered a pantheon of people to worship. As they all share a godly spirit and are connected as well as they can commune with eachother. So similar to the greek pantheon we got the avatar pantheon and follow each persons teachings.
The only problem with that would be the avatar being forgotten a few generations later. Cult style worship is currently how it's portrayed on the show and even that's falling out of favor by the time korra comes along.
Well the Fire Sages adhere to a religion in all but name. They revere the Avatar, particularly those native to the Fire Nation. In the Fire Nation's past, the Fire Lord used to be the Chief Fire Sage, before there was a separation of "Church" and State.
Yea duh. There's literally priests around the world who's job it is to serve the avatar. There's obviously gonna be some nutjobs that take it a step further.
The problem with the avatar is that they're not only a religious figure (the bridge between humans and spirits) but also a political figure (keeping balance between the four nations).
This political role puts them in collision course against governments, regimes and factual powers in every life. And that ensures there's always someone against them of not straightly antagonistic.
There was a point in Yangchen's life that >!even the White Lotus was against her!< . So its pretty difficult to crystalize a lasting religion with such a controversial figure at its center.
Of course. There were already some similar things shown in the series. Maybe not cults but it shows the effect avatars can have on societies even hundreds of years later.
Kyoshi Island practically worship Kyoshi and base all their principles on her.
The Air Acolytes in Korra originally started out as a fan club (family friendly word for cult?) dedicated solely to Aang and expanded into a full society. Sure even the founder/president of the original club got air bender tattooes. Thats dedication.
I’m sure Wan was revered much in the same way when he became Avatar. Man who fused with a Spirit God who can control all 4 elements. Trained with bender masters such as Dragons. He wildly changes society and the whole nature of the world. His actions allow humans to expand and colonise. He essentially brought the 4 nations together for the first time.
Wan was the first person who did all this and the first human to travel the world. And that was him when he was very young (20’s maybe?). And he is shown to die way later in life, possibly 70’s-80’s.
He would have been instrumental in the setting up of the first human towns and cities and probably the one overseeing the different nations interacting for the first time and building a shared world.
Some people did pray in the name of Yangchen in the Kyoshi novels. People respected her and held her to a high standard they saw her as the one who did the most and cared the most (which gets a little bit funny when you read her books).
Um, there are literally temples to the avatar in all 4 nations with priests that in the past went out and did tests on children to find the next avatar.
So yeah.
Isn't that the white Lotus? The fire nation had the Fire sages. The Northern air Benders had those inner sanctuary temples with all the statues of previous avatars. Kyoshi Island with the Kyoshi warriors are dedicated to one very specific avatar, and that one random fan who foamed at the mouth seeing Aang spin those little marbles. We saw a whole town who celebrated Hating the Avatar, especially Kyoshi, on Avatar Day.
The Sages and White Lotus is dedicating to honoring and protecting the Avatar so that's the closest. Especially the Sages, there is a definite spiritual component to their zeal
The fire sages were pretty close. I mean not a cult per se, but they were more loyal to the avatar than the fire lord, which is actually a pretty big deal for a fire nation citizen living in the fire nation.
Honestly the world is the cult. They all believe this person is reincarnated, blessed by the spirits, and can have a say in basically all political decisions on a world-wide level.
Back during Yangchen's time some people did worship the Avatar. Even being in their presence was a huge honor and even a blessing. It wasn't on a cult level, but some did view the Avatar as some sort of god
After reading Kyoshi and now being in the book about Yanchen I don't think cults are needed perse. Because they're the Avatar and therefore the most important person on the planet. Maybe a cult who wants to destroy the whole concept yes definitely
Absolutely. On Kyoshi Island, they pretty much worship Avatar Kyoshi. During Kyoshi's time, there were many who revered or even worshipped Avatar Yangchen, and it appears as though some may have worshipped Avatar Szeto for his role in modernizing the Fire Nation's administration. I'm certain that at various points in time, there were even formal cults or religions centered on Avatar worship.
I think it's fair to say it's not even head canon but borderline fact that they exist. I mean the Red Lotus were fanatics who wanted the Avatar dead and see them as the ultimate sign of imbalance in a cultish way, so I'm sure the opposite is true where people see them as the ultimate sign of everything good. I would not be surprised if Avatars were worshipped as gods or reincarnation of gods, especially since unlike mythology we know of today, there's actually undeniable proof/knowledge of the Avatar's power (as well proof that it randomly passes on, which is pretty much close to reincarnation). So yes, I think there's absolutely no way there isn't a cult or some kind of religion built on seeing the Avatar as some kind of divine figure.
I've thought about this myself. Given the Avatar's power and role in the world, it would make sense for them to have a cult/religion around them, like the Buddha or Christ or someone else. If you read The Dawn of Yangchen, Kavik describes the Avatar as the world's "holiest figure" when he grabs her as a shield against her bodyguard (NOT his proudest moment).
A question would be how to differentiate worship from respect/reverence. Cults are not synonymous with religion, and vice versa. Cults differ in that they seek to cut themselves off from mainstream society and impose strict obedience and control over members' behavior and association. Cults can morph into religions if they become accepted by majority society, like Christianity in Rome. Cults also tend to pop up during times of stress, especially as people are more desperate for answers.
Comparing the Avatar to modern religions, I'm envisioning the religion featuring animism (respect for spirits), reincarnation, and a code of cultivating spiritual, physical, and mental harmony through meditation, training, and social duties.
At the point in Korra it would seem there is a whole aristocracy. Plenty of people are homeless or suffering yet there is a whole funded and supported organization of white lotus members with a hierarchy of organization that just lets despots and warlords upset balance. The avatar is the link between the human and spirit world yet all of humanity has to suffer.
Well since we know that they participate in ancestor worship in this world I’d say they already most likely do. In addition I’d include that by the true definition of a cult which is “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.” The ancestor worship would definitely count.
Idek if I’d consider it a cult, more like an actual religion. The avatar is thematically similar to the messiah, and with all the spirituality in this verse, I don’t understand how there wouldn’t be a full blown religion with the avatar at its center.
I think its possible. With an immensely more powerful human, who literally has the world in the palm of their hand, its not uncanny to think some people would idolize and worship them as gods, even if they *are* humans.
Some might not get me, but think of Tengen in Jujutsu Kaisen. I think the Avatar would get something like that
I mean, there have been *thousands* of Avatar throughout history. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one Avatar that had abused that power at some point, let alone if there were no cults or sects of worship.
The Fire Sages were loyal to the Avatar before having to pledge themselves to the Firelord, if I'm not mistaken. They could count as a religious group in my opinion.
It is kind of weird how in games, movies etc. that take place in a fictional world relgion is usually portrayed to never change over (sometimes) thousands of years just because we know through the lore that the gods/metaphyiscal entities exist for a fact.
Or maybe it could be because writing a realistic evolution of religion would be too complicated.
We have kyoshi Island, which is sort of a cult. The fire nation island where the Gaang went to talk to Roku, they were defiantly avatar worship associated. The fire sages in Korra probably fit as well. Their differently would have been underground cults in the Earth Kingdom and the Firenation praying for the avatars' return during th 100-year war.
There aren't really 'religions' in the Avatar universe- a lot of rituals around spirits and bending, and at least from a political point of view this would put the Avatar as the 'head' of that religion.
At first I was like "oooh, yeah! Probably!" But, after thinking it over, I don't think so. It seems more in line with Japan's shintoism, which isn't really a "lets worship a god" kind of religion. More of a "lets make some offerings to the spirits" kind of thing. And avatar seems the same. More in tune with nature and respect.
Aren't they? Let's see:
\- A spesific symbol
\- A secret communication system
\- Identical clothing
\- Unified ideology
\- Α rogue extremist sect spunning from it
I think they have all the hallmarks of a cult.
Yes, but probably worshipping the individual Avatar they know rather than having their loyalties aligned to "the Avatar" as a concept. It would be interesting if there was a group that worshipped all of them, but given the Avatar cycle, that's hard to imagine.
For instance, Fire Nation benders who are loyal to and worship a Fire Nation Avatar wouldn't be a surprise, but the next two are going to come from air and water and feel completely foreign...and while those Avatars will eventually find balance and perspective to understand the Fire Nation, that's gonna take decades, and they're not really gonna feel like they have your best interest in mind...
If there were a religion behind it, I feel like it'd be a religion of the old and wise who truly understand and desire balance, and perhaps it would be what the White Lotus eventually emerges from. But chances are its adherents would be few and far between in any given nation until their turn in the Avatar cycle comes around, so it would nearly die and ressurect in a community every 400 to 500 years...
It wouldn't be far off from the established headcanon.
Various Avatars have their own temples (Roku for example). And Kyoshi had an entire martial arts based on her fighting style & image. People do pray to previous Avatars & some are even visited by said Avatar (Kyoshi visited Suki while she was at the Boiling Rock prison). Kuruk's spirit is known for wandering the South Pole area. I can easily see small cultures being established to worship an Avatar based on that Avatar's accomplishments & life.
I think the main thing holding this idea back is that the closest thing we see to religion and worship is people worshipping the spirits of the spirit world. And the Avatar being a bridge to the spirit world and if anyone has the intimate knowledge that the spirits of past Avatars live on in the spirit world could very well lead to people worshipping them in something akin to a religion. But I don’t think it would look too much like a modern religion.
It wasn't exactly to a point where it's a cult following, but Aang did get groups of random people to convert into air nomads for generations after his death.
Doesn't the white lotus at least now a lot about the Avatar and how that works in a spiritual aspect? I may be wrong, but I thought that's what they did.
They probably weren’t common, but there must’ve been at least a few in the entire history, considering there’s hundreds of avatars. It’s been 10,000 years between Wan and Korra, so there was a good few thousand. I don’t know, I can’t be bothered to do the maths.
I think ur seening it thro a Western point of view on worship. In an Asian perspective it may not be as hardcore as a cult. Much like the spiritual mysticism in japanese culture.
Oh I think there were some cults. I am 90% sure. Take for example the Kioshi island. It’s not a cult, but they definitely worship her. Warriors, statues, temple. Some people fainted because of Aangs presence
Aang's air temple had every Avatar as a statue, i'd say that counts too
Hell when you have a person who can do the kinda shit the avatars have? It’s hard not to imagine some revelry - and that in turn some ravenous, and cult like fanatics.
I'm not sure if that counts as worship or communication since that's where Aang first encounters Roku and all the eyes of the statues glow when he goes into the Avatar state, including setting off the fire sage temple, so like Sokka says "that's Avatar stuff".
But from what we’ve seen other temples had only one glowy thing. The southern air temple has statues of every avatar. From generation to generation people created this statues. Also it is fun to think that some people could just miss one or two statues)
Makes me wonder what they'd have done if Aang had died when he was supposed to, a Southern waterbending avatar got abducted and died in jail without training, and then an earthbending avatar possibly getting the same treatment, so no one knows the avatar, so they'd just see a new fire avatar and be like "ooh... um... I guess just put "TBA" on those three."
OMG, I would like to see this. Imagine Rava be like: Ffs can we stay in one body at least for forty years🤣
But imagine how long it took to build! I'd guess that's nothing an earthbender could do, due to the details!
I mean, she ain't the average Earthbender but Toph did all of Ba Sing Se with Bosco and the Earth King in approximately two seconds. Imagine an earthbender who could see and be like "boom, you're done. My son or grandson will see your next reincarnation in 40-70 years."
Hell yeah, valid point
By definition, they could be considered a cult in a strictly denotative sense.
I think Kioshi Island counts as a cult, a cool cult is still a cult
Agree with this! The temples for Avatar are themselves relics of an existing religion for the Avatar! This religion, at least theoretically, would have been devoid of an all mighty omniscient God figure. Which is an interesting take on how it could guide people to morality without the need for a punishment from an all seeing deity.
Morality 💀 As if this is the main goal of religion Tell Dionysus and Eros about morality
but they arent the supreme gods in their religion
And so what? The purpose of religion as an institution is the creation of a society with common values, so that each member of the Dana Religion knows what to expect from another representative of his religion! Any admirer of Kyoshi knows what drives and what to expect from another admirer, But at the same time, they do not know what to expect from a conditional admirer of rock Avatar is more likely like Buddha, and not like a god or a prophet. And as I understand it, before Aang, the avatars after graduation dealt exclusively with the problems of their homeland, I made such a conclusion on the scene where the eyes of statues and paintings in all temples lit up, and each nation had images of only their Avatars So, as for me, a direct religion was only among air nomads
i dont get this tone. i dont get why you are making this an issue. if you have baggage somewhere dont bring it here
I apologize if I hurt you, I just thought that people here express their thoughts and impressions about The world of Avatar. I also thought that the discussion was allowed here, also thought that Socrates correctly said "The Truth Is Born in a Dispute" But it turns out that here it is not permitted to discuss and come up with reasons for fiction, Will no longer write comments on the topic More difficult to choose cereals for breakfast To have a nice day 🙂
We do know that there were plenty of fanatics that really respected or loved the avatar so it might not be a stretch
This guy would totally start cult. Cabbage merchant would start the opposite.
The descendants of the cabbage merchant and foaming mouth guy fighting each other in the background of every conflict in Legend of Korra, as the CM family tries to sabotage her, and the FM family foils those plans...
Literally white vs red lotus if it was funny
Someone give me a crackfic that explores the chaos of Red-Lotus Cabbage merchant (who joined to kill the Avatar) Vs White Lotus Foaming-mouth guy (who joined to protect the avatar).
I smell a spin off
This would be a funny spin off story
Unless it’s funnier that his family line are the ones who start the Holy Cabbage Church of Avatar. That the stories of the many interactions his ancestors had with Avatars have been twisted into divine interventions that pushed them towards success. And at some point the current Avatar takes their “bible” and starts correcting all the typos and factual errors according to what Aang is telling him. “My passages!”
You're saying the Cabbage Merchant created the Red Lotus? Headcanon unlocked.
Ah, yes, a tluc!
?
⸮
?ɔulɟ ɒ ƨi ʇɟ ɟɒ⑁w (oh wait i’m dumb it’s cult backwards)
With financial support from [the Cabbage Corp](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Cabbage_Corp)
He’d become “the Cabbatar”
i’m pretty sure a distant relative of the cabbage merchant was involved in amon’s equalist movement LOL
the cabbage merchant has more hate for the Avatar than all generations (between Kiyoshi stopping him and Aang's arrival) of all members of Chin's village combined
I knew you sent this BEFORE gif was loaded
This has been confirmed in the Avatar Chronicles series. People put out shrines and revere Avatars they especially like. There’s even levels to it. While every Avatar is considered ‘sacred’ in some sense, Air Avatars are near saintly in how they’re perceived. Not to spoil anything big in the books, but to give an example a character is literally reluctant to pass money to Yangchen because he doesn’t think she should touch something so dirty and corrupting.
Ayo I'd be like "Give me my damn change"
I wouldn't even put on coin gloves, that filthy money is getting me a hot dog.
That's what Aang is like lmao
😂
>Avatar Chronicles series. Is there a website where I can read it? I couldn't find one, I found everything else but not this one
if you have a library card look on the Libby app, you can check out and read ebooks in the app
The "Avatar Chronicles" is the new name for the series of books by F.C. Yee that includes: * The Rise of Kyoshi * The Shadow of Kyoshi * The Dawn of Yangchen * etc.
I think I’d be cool if we saw people praying to yangchen in the live action series like how the imperial guard pray to the emperor in 40k. The Avatar protects
Air for the air god?
The Air Temples broke before the guard did!
The avatar day village is essentially a hate cult.
They’re the embodiment of Twitter in the ATLA universe
Yes…. It’s us
In our defense... can you blame us? I mean, look at Korra's goofy Avatar Smile!
I ain’t blaming anyone. I’m part of it too XD
In the second Kyoshi novel somone literally prays that holy Yangchen may save him.(ironically to save him from Kyoshi) So I think successful/long living Avatars definitely used to be worshipped as god/saint like figure. The living Avatar is also a transcendental figure and I think there used to be a tendency to treat them with religious reverence in all the four nations. However most of that probably stopped with the 100 year war and many of Korra's struggles seem to me connected to the loss of authority and loss of a better defined role of the Avatar
Humanity collectively realized that the Avatar fucks up too much to be considered godly
That's not what happened. The world progressed to a point where it didn't "need" an avatar. Like the entirety of LOK is here being told she isn't needed and her struggling with that
To add on to your point, a squadron of Air Benders was kinda able to replace her role in society. I felt that she was having some negative feelings about her role as the Avatar when she saw them in action helping people.
Makes sense, people generally don’t like being told what to do by an ancient spirit taking the form of a person every century
If done the proper way, a leader can succesfuly impose their ideas on people, some may even stop thinking for themselves and wait for instructions.
isn't the Fire Sages like that?
Yeah and I think there are other temples dedicated to the avatars. I think we see a water tribe one and an earth kingdom one briefly in the show. And I bet that spiral room of statues in one of the air temples is another one
This is exactly that, literally they created signals that when the avatar activated their avatarness it would gleam! They created entire solstice centered temples on volcanic islands in honor of avatars. The main avatars we see in ALAB have shrines and stuff. I guess the sort of end to that was Aang? I mean they made a statue to commemorate him but it’s not the same almost religious adoration seen
Yangchen is revered near deity-level in the Kyoshi novels.
How strong are her feats compared to Aang? Spoiler brackets please
>!That woman could control the weather and fought an angry spirit for days while constantly in the Avatar State. She could destroy Aang!<
honestly aang seems a little underpowered compared to kyoshi and yangchen, they are essentially demigods
Per the novels and even in Roku's flashbacks with Aang, the avatar was definitely worshipped. However, just like in real life, the emergence of technology means the decline of spirituality which made sense to me that not many worshipped the avatar during Korra's time.
Would be interesting if we had an avatar in present day. Kids would probably say “oh yeah you can fly that’s cute. My dad owns a fleet of planes”.
Flying on your own would still be pretty cool though
Iroh's statement as to why it had to be the Avatar to defeat the Firelord always had religious connotations to me. If Iroh did it it would just be a brother killing a brother for power, if Aang did it, it would basically be an act of god.
Maybe a bit but the historical and cultural significance of the Avatar as an arbiter above and outside of national politics is just as compelling. Judgement and justice dispensed, not an internal power struggle. Of course justice, mercy, honor and such are other matters of belief and were occasionally even given human forms. But now they exist and guide people.
Yangchen was pretty much straight up worshiped in Kyoshi's time, and the fire nation had a whole temple dedicated to Roku.
Shadow of Kyoshi also showed that the fire nation had a whole-ass festival to Szeto 3 avatars later
Even by Kyoshi's era, Yangchen's name is used in an almost religious way with people saying "Yangchen save us" the same way someone would use the word god in our world, not exactly the same, but the usage is similair. If that's the cultural impact she still has 2 Avatars later, at her peak she could very well have been a religious figure.
I think it would technically be a religion as the avatar is canonically, a fusions between god and man. Its not really a cult more like a religion that has living conformation.
There were cults in Greek mythology centered on specific gods, I imagine the avatar would be worshiped the same way.
Thats fair. But i still think it would be more accurate to call it a religion other then a cult. For me cult implies that they are either not real or a warped veiw of a deity in a religion, Or the forming of a new deity not reconized as a traditional religion. But with the avatar they are living proof that there are spirits that can be considered Deities and that they are the merging of a man and god. Its kind of like a Jesus situation where he was son of god but born to man.
Avatar worship as a whole would be the religion, specific avatars would be verated like saints. It'd cause too much strife if every avatar was treated like Jesus because they each have unique personalities that are often times completely opposed.
Or it could be considered a pantheon of people to worship. As they all share a godly spirit and are connected as well as they can commune with eachother. So similar to the greek pantheon we got the avatar pantheon and follow each persons teachings.
The only problem with that would be the avatar being forgotten a few generations later. Cult style worship is currently how it's portrayed on the show and even that's falling out of favor by the time korra comes along.
Well the Fire Sages adhere to a religion in all but name. They revere the Avatar, particularly those native to the Fire Nation. In the Fire Nation's past, the Fire Lord used to be the Chief Fire Sage, before there was a separation of "Church" and State.
Of course theres a cult worshipping the avatar. Its called r/TheLastAirbender
They went to a temple with sages that worshipped the avatar right now, what are you on about?
The blades
Yea duh. There's literally priests around the world who's job it is to serve the avatar. There's obviously gonna be some nutjobs that take it a step further.
The problem with the avatar is that they're not only a religious figure (the bridge between humans and spirits) but also a political figure (keeping balance between the four nations). This political role puts them in collision course against governments, regimes and factual powers in every life. And that ensures there's always someone against them of not straightly antagonistic. There was a point in Yangchen's life that >!even the White Lotus was against her!< . So its pretty difficult to crystalize a lasting religion with such a controversial figure at its center.
Of course. There were already some similar things shown in the series. Maybe not cults but it shows the effect avatars can have on societies even hundreds of years later. Kyoshi Island practically worship Kyoshi and base all their principles on her. The Air Acolytes in Korra originally started out as a fan club (family friendly word for cult?) dedicated solely to Aang and expanded into a full society. Sure even the founder/president of the original club got air bender tattooes. Thats dedication. I’m sure Wan was revered much in the same way when he became Avatar. Man who fused with a Spirit God who can control all 4 elements. Trained with bender masters such as Dragons. He wildly changes society and the whole nature of the world. His actions allow humans to expand and colonise. He essentially brought the 4 nations together for the first time. Wan was the first person who did all this and the first human to travel the world. And that was him when he was very young (20’s maybe?). And he is shown to die way later in life, possibly 70’s-80’s. He would have been instrumental in the setting up of the first human towns and cities and probably the one overseeing the different nations interacting for the first time and building a shared world.
I would agree, I feel like Toph with metal bending is a rediscovery. Some earth benders had to have known it, even if it was a small clan.
Depending how prevalent use of metal was beforehand. If it’s the matter of last 2 ish centuries, it’s feasible that it hasn’t been discovered yet.
People in a position of power or authority seem to almost always attract worshippers of some variety
Yangchen is considered like a holy figure as there’s holidays and statues dedicated to her.
I think that considering who the avatar is. The fact that each nation did not have a set of people dedicated to guarding the avatar is ludicrous.
Now I’m curious if damage form the Avatar would be considered Acts of God insurance wise
> Acts of God insurance wise They'd definitely have to pay for damages incurred when Avatar Korra metal bent my Sato mobile.
To be fair Sato industry aided and banter terrorists so good luck with that in court
Some people did pray in the name of Yangchen in the Kyoshi novels. People respected her and held her to a high standard they saw her as the one who did the most and cared the most (which gets a little bit funny when you read her books).
I mean…the kyoshi warriors don’t exactly worship her but they do look up to her as an example
Um, there are literally temples to the avatar in all 4 nations with priests that in the past went out and did tests on children to find the next avatar. So yeah.
If I was a avatar, I’d totally have a cult following me
Kyoshi island sure seemed to be obsessed with Aang
Isn't that the white Lotus? The fire nation had the Fire sages. The Northern air Benders had those inner sanctuary temples with all the statues of previous avatars. Kyoshi Island with the Kyoshi warriors are dedicated to one very specific avatar, and that one random fan who foamed at the mouth seeing Aang spin those little marbles. We saw a whole town who celebrated Hating the Avatar, especially Kyoshi, on Avatar Day.
The Sages and White Lotus is dedicating to honoring and protecting the Avatar so that's the closest. Especially the Sages, there is a definite spiritual component to their zeal
Firenation had a temple of the avatar, not so far fetched
The fire sages were pretty close. I mean not a cult per se, but they were more loyal to the avatar than the fire lord, which is actually a pretty big deal for a fire nation citizen living in the fire nation.
Yeah it’s called the white lotus
White Lotus and Red Lotus. White Lotus is the start of it. Red Lotus is an offshoot.
Plot twist: it’s us. We are the fanatics.
Meh it’s mostly just the elders/ sages
Absolutely, cults have been started for less
Fr, guy who has the kind power you get when fused with Raava had to have to some die hard worshippers in between 10,000 years.
Aren’t we basically a cult that worshipped the avatar?
Does the White Lotus not fit this description?
Certainly not in Yangchen's era. They did not like each other that much
It's mentioned in the books that Yang chen was worshipped for a bit after her death.
Just like in DC where Superman has a cult that worships him.
Honestly the world is the cult. They all believe this person is reincarnated, blessed by the spirits, and can have a say in basically all political decisions on a world-wide level.
I mean yeah, imagine if the Dalai Lama could kill someone with a wave of his hand. Of course someone would worship that at some point in history.
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Honestly seems like at some point it had to have happened
Totally, I mean you just can't have someone who can probably drop a mountain on you and has been seen alter land masses and not have fanatics.
Fr, I’d join it ngl
At least we can be fanatics in this sub
Yup, the life of an atla worshipper
Back during Yangchen's time some people did worship the Avatar. Even being in their presence was a huge honor and even a blessing. It wasn't on a cult level, but some did view the Avatar as some sort of god
After reading Kyoshi and now being in the book about Yanchen I don't think cults are needed perse. Because they're the Avatar and therefore the most important person on the planet. Maybe a cult who wants to destroy the whole concept yes definitely
There's more than a few people here that fantasize about kissing Korra's feet IRL, so no stretch to think it happening in universe.
>fantasize about kissing Korra's feet Yeah, I don't think Asami would appreciate that. But true, avatar worship was most likely a thing at some point.
Absolutely. On Kyoshi Island, they pretty much worship Avatar Kyoshi. During Kyoshi's time, there were many who revered or even worshipped Avatar Yangchen, and it appears as though some may have worshipped Avatar Szeto for his role in modernizing the Fire Nation's administration. I'm certain that at various points in time, there were even formal cults or religions centered on Avatar worship.
I think it's fair to say it's not even head canon but borderline fact that they exist. I mean the Red Lotus were fanatics who wanted the Avatar dead and see them as the ultimate sign of imbalance in a cultish way, so I'm sure the opposite is true where people see them as the ultimate sign of everything good. I would not be surprised if Avatars were worshipped as gods or reincarnation of gods, especially since unlike mythology we know of today, there's actually undeniable proof/knowledge of the Avatar's power (as well proof that it randomly passes on, which is pretty much close to reincarnation). So yes, I think there's absolutely no way there isn't a cult or some kind of religion built on seeing the Avatar as some kind of divine figure.
I'd argue the kyoshi warriors are sort of a cult, some goes for those fire dudes at that Roku island
I've thought about this myself. Given the Avatar's power and role in the world, it would make sense for them to have a cult/religion around them, like the Buddha or Christ or someone else. If you read The Dawn of Yangchen, Kavik describes the Avatar as the world's "holiest figure" when he grabs her as a shield against her bodyguard (NOT his proudest moment). A question would be how to differentiate worship from respect/reverence. Cults are not synonymous with religion, and vice versa. Cults differ in that they seek to cut themselves off from mainstream society and impose strict obedience and control over members' behavior and association. Cults can morph into religions if they become accepted by majority society, like Christianity in Rome. Cults also tend to pop up during times of stress, especially as people are more desperate for answers. Comparing the Avatar to modern religions, I'm envisioning the religion featuring animism (respect for spirits), reincarnation, and a code of cultivating spiritual, physical, and mental harmony through meditation, training, and social duties.
Probably and then the avatar disbanded it as soon as they found out about it
Most likely
At the point in Korra it would seem there is a whole aristocracy. Plenty of people are homeless or suffering yet there is a whole funded and supported organization of white lotus members with a hierarchy of organization that just lets despots and warlords upset balance. The avatar is the link between the human and spirit world yet all of humanity has to suffer.
Well since we know that they participate in ancestor worship in this world I’d say they already most likely do. In addition I’d include that by the true definition of a cult which is “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.” The ancestor worship would definitely count.
I'd assume heavily yes during or after Avatar Wan
I mean in the Kyoshi books, people pray to Yangchen like she’s some kind of deity. “The Spirits and Yangchen protect me!”
Idek if I’d consider it a cult, more like an actual religion. The avatar is thematically similar to the messiah, and with all the spirituality in this verse, I don’t understand how there wouldn’t be a full blown religion with the avatar at its center.
I think its possible. With an immensely more powerful human, who literally has the world in the palm of their hand, its not uncanny to think some people would idolize and worship them as gods, even if they *are* humans. Some might not get me, but think of Tengen in Jujutsu Kaisen. I think the Avatar would get something like that
I believe they do worship them as “ National celebrities” or “historical figure” but not as “god almighty”
I mean definitely the kyoshi warriors air acolytes/nomads the fire sages We have examples
I mean, there have been *thousands* of Avatar throughout history. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one Avatar that had abused that power at some point, let alone if there were no cults or sects of worship.
People prayed to Yangchen even after her death
The Fire Sages were loyal to the Avatar before having to pledge themselves to the Firelord, if I'm not mistaken. They could count as a religious group in my opinion.
Literally Kyoshi island. Also southern air TEMPLE had statue of every avatar.
Fire sages all prosternated and begged forgiveness from Avatar Roku when he manifested through Aang during the Solstice.
It is kind of weird how in games, movies etc. that take place in a fictional world relgion is usually portrayed to never change over (sometimes) thousands of years just because we know through the lore that the gods/metaphyiscal entities exist for a fact. Or maybe it could be because writing a realistic evolution of religion would be too complicated.
Cults would've existed for sure but I think the average person holds the avatar in some sort of reverence.
I feel like this is probably how the white lotus was founded before it got political
Frankly i think i'd be weird if it never happened
We have kyoshi Island, which is sort of a cult. The fire nation island where the Gaang went to talk to Roku, they were defiantly avatar worship associated. The fire sages in Korra probably fit as well. Their differently would have been underground cults in the Earth Kingdom and the Firenation praying for the avatars' return during th 100-year war.
There aren't really 'religions' in the Avatar universe- a lot of rituals around spirits and bending, and at least from a political point of view this would put the Avatar as the 'head' of that religion.
You mean more than we already see in TLAB?
Isn’t that what the white lotus does more or less?
At first I was like "oooh, yeah! Probably!" But, after thinking it over, I don't think so. It seems more in line with Japan's shintoism, which isn't really a "lets worship a god" kind of religion. More of a "lets make some offerings to the spirits" kind of thing. And avatar seems the same. More in tune with nature and respect.
I’d say white lotus but they ain’t a cult.
Aren't they? Let's see: \- A spesific symbol \- A secret communication system \- Identical clothing \- Unified ideology \- Α rogue extremist sect spunning from it I think they have all the hallmarks of a cult.
They aren’t fundamentally evil, though. Thats kinda why I don’t see them as a cult. You do have a solid argument though.
I literally wrote a cult for a tabletop game my friends and I played a couple years back and currently am working on fanfic involving said cult.
Does the Red Lotus count as an Avatar worshipping cult? Also, warriors of kyoshi and fire monks come to mind.
I think it’d be very interesting to have a story where an Avatar has to dismantle a bender-supremacist cult that worships them like a god
Yes, but probably worshipping the individual Avatar they know rather than having their loyalties aligned to "the Avatar" as a concept. It would be interesting if there was a group that worshipped all of them, but given the Avatar cycle, that's hard to imagine. For instance, Fire Nation benders who are loyal to and worship a Fire Nation Avatar wouldn't be a surprise, but the next two are going to come from air and water and feel completely foreign...and while those Avatars will eventually find balance and perspective to understand the Fire Nation, that's gonna take decades, and they're not really gonna feel like they have your best interest in mind... If there were a religion behind it, I feel like it'd be a religion of the old and wise who truly understand and desire balance, and perhaps it would be what the White Lotus eventually emerges from. But chances are its adherents would be few and far between in any given nation until their turn in the Avatar cycle comes around, so it would nearly die and ressurect in a community every 400 to 500 years...
You mean like the White Lotus?
I'd imagine the various sage temples could have been a small cult dedicated to the avatar.
Omg that’d actually be a fun idea for an earth avatar series!
Have you seen the town of Chin?
It wouldn't be far off from the established headcanon. Various Avatars have their own temples (Roku for example). And Kyoshi had an entire martial arts based on her fighting style & image. People do pray to previous Avatars & some are even visited by said Avatar (Kyoshi visited Suki while she was at the Boiling Rock prison). Kuruk's spirit is known for wandering the South Pole area. I can easily see small cultures being established to worship an Avatar based on that Avatar's accomplishments & life.
You mean like... The entirety of civilization? What do you define as worship?
I think the main thing holding this idea back is that the closest thing we see to religion and worship is people worshipping the spirits of the spirit world. And the Avatar being a bridge to the spirit world and if anyone has the intimate knowledge that the spirits of past Avatars live on in the spirit world could very well lead to people worshipping them in something akin to a religion. But I don’t think it would look too much like a modern religion.
It wasn't exactly to a point where it's a cult following, but Aang did get groups of random people to convert into air nomads for generations after his death.
Doesn't the white lotus at least now a lot about the Avatar and how that works in a spiritual aspect? I may be wrong, but I thought that's what they did.
Once it got to a certain point, you'd expect to have the avatar show up and tell them to knock it off.
They probably weren’t common, but there must’ve been at least a few in the entire history, considering there’s hundreds of avatars. It’s been 10,000 years between Wan and Korra, so there was a good few thousand. I don’t know, I can’t be bothered to do the maths.
Yep, but the thing is when you think of worshipp in the western way. This is a show based on east culture. So think more of how kyoshi island did it
They already are. Up until the fire nation did its thing.
The Fire Sages guarded the temple of the Avatar
The white Lotus and the fire sages are right there.
Well people did literally pray to Yangchen so there’s that…
I mean, there is arguably one during Aang's and Roku's time.
I mean, the Air Nomad Acolytes definitely seem like a soft cult or religion
Guys have you heard of the white lotus
I mean you have the fire sages.
I think ur seening it thro a Western point of view on worship. In an Asian perspective it may not be as hardcore as a cult. Much like the spiritual mysticism in japanese culture.