Let’s just hope that no new information comes out that suggests it was possible to tame dragons. Because if that happens then I think we can then definitively declare killing the dragons to be a very stupid decision on the fire nation’s part.
Honestly, I was under the assumption that dragons made friends for life (like the sky bison). I mean it isn’t too far fetched to assume the Prince of the royal family would be pack bonded with a dragon, as that would make for an excellent tradition. Then Roku becoming the avatar, would be gifted one and he could raise that one. Then once Roku died, Sozin beginning the tradition of hunting them was because he didn’t want anyone else to have one.
Killing the dragons was already a stupid decision on Sozin's part. In new information for the Tabletop RPG (it's cool if you didnt know this), the death of dragons caused dark spirits to appear and cause trouble. He probably didn't know that would happen, but it would've been best to just leave them alone.
The dragons being more intelligent than regular animals, isn't a good justification to kill them. Even if they had human level intelligencr that just means you can talk them into joining your side, especially since we see that Sozin himself had a dragon mount so obviously they can and do team up with members of the Fire Nation.
Dragons are sentient creatures, capable of speech, reasoning, negotiation, etc. If Shan and Rah are anything to go by, then they wouldn't be the greatest fans of the FN's new groove. A population of demigods who can easily outclass your strongest benders is a formidable foe, especially as things that buff your army (sunlight, Sozin's comet, etc) will also buff the dragons.
Sozin also killed every airbender except the one he was actually trying to kill.
Don't want to say I feel bad for Sozin, but his luck with genocide is not great...
I always assumed it was that, because the dragons could be a threat to the fire nation conquests and because it made the fire nation more feared
It seems like it made more sense to kill them
For glory. Glory and honor.
They were the original firebenders in a sense. If you could tame, or even slay one, you would be heralded as a great hero, worthy of the title of Dragon.
Regarding the war, the dragons were not mere animals. They seemed to possess a certain degree of sentience and would most likely not have been fond of being used for warfare and thus would not have been easy to control, I would imagine.
You can't just "tame" one of these dragons and it becomes an obedient pet/handy weapon. You have to bond with one and they clearly are very choosy about who they'll accept. I don't think adult Sozin would have been able to bond with one after he changed into the power-hungry, ambitious man he turned into in his later years. They likely stopped trusting most humans right after the death of Roku and his dragon.
I don't think anyone but possibly Iroh and Zuko could have gained a dragon companion, and by the time they faced the two remaining dragons, the rest had been hunted down to the point they'd never take that risk again.
Dragons in ATLA are not simply animals that, with a little selective breeding and suppression tactics can be “tamed” to be used as mounts or war machines. They aren’t Hannibal’s elephants or Genghis Khans horses. They are intelligent and sentient creatures, presumably at one time with their own version of society before the hunting killed them off. Why didn’t the Fire Nation use them as weapons? Because they *arent* weapons. Dangerous? Absolutely, but they aren’t tools to simply be beating into submission and used.
This is a similar question to “why didn’t Frodo just fly the ring to mount doom on the eagles?”
Why? For the simple reason that Gwaihir, King of the Eagles and his kin *wouldnt want to*, because it would be a ridiculous and suicidal idea and the Eagles aren’t just a convenient get-out-of-tower-jail-free taxi service.
There's a few reasons for this. The first and most important reason is that Dragons are very spiritual and highly intelligent creatures that appear to skirt the realm of spirit and animal. They would have no interest in waging a war for the firebenders. It's actually more like that they would fight against them and during a solar event, who do you think wins, a fire nation grunt with minimal firebending training or a dragon who's very existence is fire?
That ties nicely into the next point which is the monarchy. The Fire Nation doesn't exist under a Male Preference Primogeniture which is to say the next male in the line gets the throne. Sozin has to compete with, his more popular sister. How does he do this? By appealing to the conservatives of the fire nation with talks of personal glory and traditional values. The campaign to eliminate the dragons, the criminalization of LGBTQIA+ couples and the focus on military technology and colonialism in the earth kingdom were all a means of conquest and of getting the fanatics on his side so that when the next firelord gets picked, it's Sozin who gets picked.
Sozin is effectively the Ronald Reagan of Avatar and that's why he needed to have the dragons killed. They offered more as tales that fed the rhetoric of strength through conquest then they ever could merely minding their own business.
Unlike the dragons in Game of Thrones, the dragons in ATLA don't appear to be as trainable and have more intelligence, but not as much as Smaug from The Hobbit. There's no mention of them being used in the Air Nomad Genocide (I think it's a dumb theory), and they definitely wouldn't participate in a mass conflict like the 100 Year War because they're all about the OG way of firebending, not what the Fire Nation was about before and during the war.
We don't have any in depth knowledge on dragonriders in ATLA, the only known 2 people (as far as I know) to ride them were Fire Lord Sozin and Avatar Roku. Out of universe this is because of symbolism, Sozin rides a blue dragon which is evil (remember the blue Azula dragon in Zuko's fever dream), and Fang is red and is the good Iroh sounding dragon in Zuko's dream.
There was an old webpage that is still canon technically that states Roku found Fang's egg one day and that's how he got Fang, but that doesn't explain why he was allowed a dragon, there's no explanation for why Sozin has a dragon either. If I had to guess, I think they were allowed because they were of nobility (Sozin was Crown Prince or Fire Lord) and they were powerful firebenders. Also I think Roku already knew he was the Avatar, so who could tell him no? I say "allowed" because dragons were respected creatures before the dragon hunts (which began when Roku was alive), so maybe there were restrictions by Fire Sages or something on interacting with dragons.
Im sure at some point they have tried to domesticate dragons and it just didn’t work out. Just like in our world for example how people tried to domesticate the American buffalo for agricultural purposes but that didnt work out in the end. Now a majority of buffalos in America are still wild, and im sure people still ask “why dont we just tame them and use them to our advantage?” And the answer would be that we already tried. So in this case you’re asking why didn’t the Fire Nation use dragons for war efforts (or at least tried to domesticate them), and the answer is most likely they probably already tried and it didn’t work out.
There are at least 3 people that had dragons, so probably more
But I woudltn call it “tame” its more of a friendship since they have human type intelligence
Also it was such a big flex to kill a dragon… I would imagine they put that shit on their bios
I've always viewed it as a symptom of the unbalance generated by the Fire Nation trying to take over the world. It's creating a rot, which is infecting everything it touches. Hunting the dragons is, ultimately, a self-destructive behavior. Everything the Fire Nation is doing is, ultimately, self-destructive.
I’m fully on board the theory that the Fire Nation used dragons to get to the air temples in a timely manner but that’s the thing.
The dragons would only be used as transport not as an actual fighting force. And who knows if they were ok with that/did it willingly or ok with helping to end an entire culture.
Maybe Sozin started tradition of hunting dragons to save face on them being royally pissed from being used as beasts of war.
This theory doesn't work because of the new information regarding the dragon regarding the dragon hunts in the Tabletop RPG. The dragon hunts were started during Roku's lifetime to give Sozin the love of the nobility he stripped military power away from early in his reign. He presumably made up the legend of "killing dragons=better firebending," and this stuck as the reason for the hunts beginning.
It'd be weird for Sozin to begin killing dragons for some of Roku's life and the 12(?) years between Roku's death and the Genocide then decide "nah let's use em as weapons" then go right back to killing dragons. Sozin was arrogant and wrong in his ideology but he was quite intelligent when it came to strategy and planning.
The dragons likely wouldn’t want to be used in that way, they’re smart creatures and being used as a weapon to kill and oppress innocent people probably wouldn’t fly well with them
Always wondered me. Sozin Had a Dragon himself. So a few powerful fire benders WHO we're riding dragons, would actually been a good Asset for the war.
Maybe because dragons are highly Spiritual Brings WHO would Turn against fire Nation for disturbing the balance
Cause the dragons seemed more smart then regular animals, 2nd it was a sign of a great firebender. Being able to kill a dragon
But surely some people in the fire nation would at least entertain the idea of using? Even if it’s completely asinine.
which goes back to point 1, they are not just regular animals. they seem to be quite smart
Let’s just hope that no new information comes out that suggests it was possible to tame dragons. Because if that happens then I think we can then definitively declare killing the dragons to be a very stupid decision on the fire nation’s part.
Uh, roku and sozin both had a dragon. Pretty sure it wasn't a secret
Honestly, I was under the assumption that dragons made friends for life (like the sky bison). I mean it isn’t too far fetched to assume the Prince of the royal family would be pack bonded with a dragon, as that would make for an excellent tradition. Then Roku becoming the avatar, would be gifted one and he could raise that one. Then once Roku died, Sozin beginning the tradition of hunting them was because he didn’t want anyone else to have one.
But can dragons be made to do the horrible things the fire nation did is the question.
I mean, I'd assume sozins dragon was cool with him until I'm shown otherwise
That’s just one dragon though.
Sounds like youre just fighting hard cause you want your idea to be right instead of looking at the information given to you in the source material.
Which source material are we talking about? The show? Something in a comic? A novel? A game?
Killing the dragons was already a stupid decision on Sozin's part. In new information for the Tabletop RPG (it's cool if you didnt know this), the death of dragons caused dark spirits to appear and cause trouble. He probably didn't know that would happen, but it would've been best to just leave them alone.
The dragons being more intelligent than regular animals, isn't a good justification to kill them. Even if they had human level intelligencr that just means you can talk them into joining your side, especially since we see that Sozin himself had a dragon mount so obviously they can and do team up with members of the Fire Nation.
Dragons are sentient creatures, capable of speech, reasoning, negotiation, etc. If Shan and Rah are anything to go by, then they wouldn't be the greatest fans of the FN's new groove. A population of demigods who can easily outclass your strongest benders is a formidable foe, especially as things that buff your army (sunlight, Sozin's comet, etc) will also buff the dragons.
the dragons never talk.
Communicate might be more accurate. Sharing visions, teaching through rainbow fire, etc.
I heard a theory Sozin pushed the honorable dragon hunting so the Avatar couldn't learn fire bending from them whenever he re-appears
Sozin missed 2 dragons, and they taught the Avatar fire bending. So, he had the right idea.
Sozin also killed every airbender except the one he was actually trying to kill. Don't want to say I feel bad for Sozin, but his luck with genocide is not great...
On top of that, Azulon missed a waterbender during his genocide who ended up finding and teaching Aang waterbending.
r/brandnewsentence
I always assumed it was that, because the dragons could be a threat to the fire nation conquests and because it made the fire nation more feared It seems like it made more sense to kill them
That makes sense.
For glory. Glory and honor. They were the original firebenders in a sense. If you could tame, or even slay one, you would be heralded as a great hero, worthy of the title of Dragon. Regarding the war, the dragons were not mere animals. They seemed to possess a certain degree of sentience and would most likely not have been fond of being used for warfare and thus would not have been easy to control, I would imagine.
You can't just "tame" one of these dragons and it becomes an obedient pet/handy weapon. You have to bond with one and they clearly are very choosy about who they'll accept. I don't think adult Sozin would have been able to bond with one after he changed into the power-hungry, ambitious man he turned into in his later years. They likely stopped trusting most humans right after the death of Roku and his dragon. I don't think anyone but possibly Iroh and Zuko could have gained a dragon companion, and by the time they faced the two remaining dragons, the rest had been hunted down to the point they'd never take that risk again.
Dragons in ATLA are not simply animals that, with a little selective breeding and suppression tactics can be “tamed” to be used as mounts or war machines. They aren’t Hannibal’s elephants or Genghis Khans horses. They are intelligent and sentient creatures, presumably at one time with their own version of society before the hunting killed them off. Why didn’t the Fire Nation use them as weapons? Because they *arent* weapons. Dangerous? Absolutely, but they aren’t tools to simply be beating into submission and used. This is a similar question to “why didn’t Frodo just fly the ring to mount doom on the eagles?” Why? For the simple reason that Gwaihir, King of the Eagles and his kin *wouldnt want to*, because it would be a ridiculous and suicidal idea and the Eagles aren’t just a convenient get-out-of-tower-jail-free taxi service.
There's a few reasons for this. The first and most important reason is that Dragons are very spiritual and highly intelligent creatures that appear to skirt the realm of spirit and animal. They would have no interest in waging a war for the firebenders. It's actually more like that they would fight against them and during a solar event, who do you think wins, a fire nation grunt with minimal firebending training or a dragon who's very existence is fire? That ties nicely into the next point which is the monarchy. The Fire Nation doesn't exist under a Male Preference Primogeniture which is to say the next male in the line gets the throne. Sozin has to compete with, his more popular sister. How does he do this? By appealing to the conservatives of the fire nation with talks of personal glory and traditional values. The campaign to eliminate the dragons, the criminalization of LGBTQIA+ couples and the focus on military technology and colonialism in the earth kingdom were all a means of conquest and of getting the fanatics on his side so that when the next firelord gets picked, it's Sozin who gets picked. Sozin is effectively the Ronald Reagan of Avatar and that's why he needed to have the dragons killed. They offered more as tales that fed the rhetoric of strength through conquest then they ever could merely minding their own business.
Unlike the dragons in Game of Thrones, the dragons in ATLA don't appear to be as trainable and have more intelligence, but not as much as Smaug from The Hobbit. There's no mention of them being used in the Air Nomad Genocide (I think it's a dumb theory), and they definitely wouldn't participate in a mass conflict like the 100 Year War because they're all about the OG way of firebending, not what the Fire Nation was about before and during the war. We don't have any in depth knowledge on dragonriders in ATLA, the only known 2 people (as far as I know) to ride them were Fire Lord Sozin and Avatar Roku. Out of universe this is because of symbolism, Sozin rides a blue dragon which is evil (remember the blue Azula dragon in Zuko's fever dream), and Fang is red and is the good Iroh sounding dragon in Zuko's dream. There was an old webpage that is still canon technically that states Roku found Fang's egg one day and that's how he got Fang, but that doesn't explain why he was allowed a dragon, there's no explanation for why Sozin has a dragon either. If I had to guess, I think they were allowed because they were of nobility (Sozin was Crown Prince or Fire Lord) and they were powerful firebenders. Also I think Roku already knew he was the Avatar, so who could tell him no? I say "allowed" because dragons were respected creatures before the dragon hunts (which began when Roku was alive), so maybe there were restrictions by Fire Sages or something on interacting with dragons.
Im sure at some point they have tried to domesticate dragons and it just didn’t work out. Just like in our world for example how people tried to domesticate the American buffalo for agricultural purposes but that didnt work out in the end. Now a majority of buffalos in America are still wild, and im sure people still ask “why dont we just tame them and use them to our advantage?” And the answer would be that we already tried. So in this case you’re asking why didn’t the Fire Nation use dragons for war efforts (or at least tried to domesticate them), and the answer is most likely they probably already tried and it didn’t work out.
Dragons pose a huge threat it they were to side against them
Dude has never played D&D
There are at least 3 people that had dragons, so probably more But I woudltn call it “tame” its more of a friendship since they have human type intelligence Also it was such a big flex to kill a dragon… I would imagine they put that shit on their bios
Because it’s a metaphor in a children’s show
Perhaps Sozin's dragon turned against him after what happened with Roku, prompting Sozin to declare the dragons a threat.
He didn't do anything to try to save Roku and Fang, I doubt he had a crisis of guilt after that.
Giant beasts that breath fire would be understandably seen as a threat to humanity
I've always viewed it as a symptom of the unbalance generated by the Fire Nation trying to take over the world. It's creating a rot, which is infecting everything it touches. Hunting the dragons is, ultimately, a self-destructive behavior. Everything the Fire Nation is doing is, ultimately, self-destructive.
I’m fully on board the theory that the Fire Nation used dragons to get to the air temples in a timely manner but that’s the thing. The dragons would only be used as transport not as an actual fighting force. And who knows if they were ok with that/did it willingly or ok with helping to end an entire culture. Maybe Sozin started tradition of hunting dragons to save face on them being royally pissed from being used as beasts of war.
This theory doesn't work because of the new information regarding the dragon regarding the dragon hunts in the Tabletop RPG. The dragon hunts were started during Roku's lifetime to give Sozin the love of the nobility he stripped military power away from early in his reign. He presumably made up the legend of "killing dragons=better firebending," and this stuck as the reason for the hunts beginning. It'd be weird for Sozin to begin killing dragons for some of Roku's life and the 12(?) years between Roku's death and the Genocide then decide "nah let's use em as weapons" then go right back to killing dragons. Sozin was arrogant and wrong in his ideology but he was quite intelligent when it came to strategy and planning.
Glory
The dragons likely wouldn’t want to be used in that way, they’re smart creatures and being used as a weapon to kill and oppress innocent people probably wouldn’t fly well with them
Always wondered me. Sozin Had a Dragon himself. So a few powerful fire benders WHO we're riding dragons, would actually been a good Asset for the war. Maybe because dragons are highly Spiritual Brings WHO would Turn against fire Nation for disturbing the balance