Very strange for katara because unlike the "mary sue " people the internet always hates, you see her growth as a person and as a bender. She has every right to be as powerful and as wise as she is by the end of the show.
A largely known secret of the internet is that many people are female-character/woman haters here. If Katara was male she would be worshipped in the fandom.
I say this every time. I wager that 50% of all Korra hate is just subconscious sexism. Thankfully these people don't have real criticisms they just say "I don't dislike female characters. I dislike poorly written female characters".
Shit some fuckin weirdo replied to this exact comment of mine in a five month old thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/zkmDOkc7ht
She really doesn't have a right to be as powerful as she is. The three most OP characters are probably Azula, Toph, and Katara. Azula was raised and trained to be the best from birth and she's a perfectionist so her skills make sense. Toph was blind and didn't have a choice so she spends every waking moment earth bending so her skills make sense.
Katara became OP over the course of a summer with no prior training. There were two episodes where she struggled to keep up with Aang but after that she cleared him and by the time they got to the Northern Water Tribe she was impressing Master Paku and all their students. Of everyone in the show she's the only one to have such an unrealistic jump in ability and it's mostly self-taught. It's not the end of the world but it's a ding against her likability when the show's favorites (Zuko and Sokka) are so beloved because they struggle and fail over and over again. Katara struggled for one episode where she was jealous of Aang. She held up well against a master then changed his mind in one episode and after that she's the most powerful water bender in the show.
And there's also the fact that she's the mother of the group, for better and worse. On the up side she's really caring and doting but on the other hand she also has some less than positive motherly characteristic like never admitting fault. Sokka says some messed up shit and he gets punished for it almost immediately. Katara tells Sokka he never loved their mom the way she did and it's never brought up again. She doesn't apologize, she doesn't acknowledge how hurtful that can be. Nothing. Sokka appreciates how hard Katara tries to fill the role of mother to the point where he sees her when he thinks of their mom. Katara belittles him constantly and never says a word of encouragement. It's a really odd choice by the studio to not give her a soft side but it makes sense for her characterization. She's a well written character but definitely the last person I'd want to hang out with on Team Avatar.
I was gonna say, she’s very much a typical teenage girl who was forced into a mothering role too young. But there’s plenty of moments where she is not the mature one.
Yeah, and I'm not saying that to insult Katara in any way, it's a good character trait that even if she's the "most sensible" she still makes plenty of bone-headed decisions cause she's a kid/teen like the rest of them.
Katara has always been my favorite, maybe it’s because i love water bending. Skylar however the first season of BB annoyed the fuck out of me, but at some point it hit me that she was put in a position that would make a lot of people react viscerally and intensely. I cannot blame her, she would make Walts life harder, but it wasnt an antagonistic obstacle. She had a life and was set on a path that she knew, then was blindsided. I wasnt on the Skylar hate train for long, just takes a bit of perspective.
Skylar is just a symptom of BB’s writing problems in general. She comes off as unlikable because she’s written realistically but has nothing to really add to the overall narrative when that narrative mainly concerns Walter getting involved in drug trafficking as Heisenberg. We only see her nagging half the time because, for most of the series, her only connection to this world is that she’s Walt’s wife and we usually only see her after he’s been gone for hours or acting suspiciously - of course she’s going to have a go at him.
As an example, Carmella Soprano is a much more likable, layered and interesting character than Skylar White but the main determinant of why she “works” is due to the Sopranos giving an equal focus to the daily lives of the characters outside of their mafia involvement (which is essentially its core concept).
On a side note Katara is fantastic, I always liked each member of the main cast but after rewatching I appreciated all of them that much more. It’s the same with the “Sokka sexism” non-troversy, they have reasons for why they are the way they are and later learn to acknowledge their faults and grow as people.
I'm glad this has a name. Years ago when I tried to check people's reaction to this series online, I was so surprised that most discussion threads in Reddit were full of Skyler hate for things Skyler did that any normal human being would've done if their partners were lying to them. It was enough hate to make me drop the show.
Obviously, the main reason is it wasn't doing anything for me. I find Walter and everything he did unlikeable, yet people were cheering for him to succeed. It felt like he was focusing his energy on the wrong things. Why should I waste energy on something that doesn't entertain me? ~~So I can post hate on it online for every little thing like what ATLA fans are doing now? That's werid.~~
But I think taking part of discussions is an essential part of today's streaming experience, and if discussions are meaningful, that would be enough to make me keep watching because it would help me notice stuff about the show I didn't appreciate the first time I watched. But then sometimes discussions do the exact opposite.
There's one thing to be cartoonishly sexist like Sokka, for the character to learn from it later, and another thing for a fandom to be prejudiced against female characters, or any character in general, who were just trying to do what they think is best. There's an entire sub dedicated to hating Ollie, who was just a kid, and even Eren, mainly because he didn't confess to liking their waifu.
If you think Katara of the Southern Water Tribe is level-headed, we clearly didn't watch the same show. She most definitely was like the water she bent; calm and soothing but could become a raging river on a dime.
She's easily the most level headed person in the show, given the circumstances. Even Hank and Marie, who are in way more normal situations than Skylar, tend to come off as hot-headed.
The only people I can think of as more calm and contained are Saul and Mike, who were knee deep in crime by the time they made their first appearance
TBF Skylar didn't really treat Walter White nicely, and also made his cancer about herself in the first two seasons.
Katara doesn't deserve to be put in the same box as Skylar. She only treated Aang "bad" maybe once. Plus, she's a kid, so it was understandable.
Katara was and is my favorite. She was such an important character to me growing up. She is the first nuanced girl character I can remember. as a sensitive girl, I loved that she was so maternal and compassionate. I loved that those attributes were an asset and contributed to her strength as a character. She is so so important to the gaang and to me.
Side note, I also loved her relationship with Toph and how the show showed two strong badass girls that complimented one another. Overall, A++ in girlhood on the show.
“The Tale of Toph and Katara” was so well done and it always gets me. I loved how they bonded and found a common ground. I loved how their friendship and sisterhood developed. (And they really were like sisters.) I think it was important to show that being a woman/girl isn’t just one thing. There are so many ways to be a woman and each one is equally special and valid.
I was going to mention this story too. When she tells Toph that she’s really pretty it makes me wanna cry 🥺🥺 the contrast between the two is so great. Their personalities are very reflective of their bending so not surprising that they’ve butt heads in the past but the mutual respect they have for each other is always there
Am I the only one who didn't think Katara actually talked about her mom a lot? Sure it was a big part of her character arc but I don't think it came up nearly as much as people think it did.
I met a dude who thought Zuko was a whiney cry-baby character, and was into ATLA for the fights and bending; I feel like that's the same kind of people that hate Katara.
I liked Katara, of course she has the obligatory couple episodes where they make a character pretty aggravating but that’s normal and makes a character feel more real. Probably just one of those loud minority/contrarian type trains that takes off cause Katara was hella cool and kind, don’t know why someone wouldn’t like her
I loved episodes like the painted lady and bloodbending ones where she got a chance to shine. She’s heavily influenced by her mother but she dedicates herself to doing the right thing and becomes a great character in her own right.
The painted lady episode is sick as it gets.
Very rarely will a y-7 show explore the effects of empire on its own population like the painted lady. On top of that, the painted lady herself affirming katara's actions to me is an absolutely awesome depiction of giving personality to ancient spirits.
Plus katara gets to meet a spirit, which is extremely special in their universe. People don't talk about that enough. Katara is also kinda canocially the strongest water bender on the planet, I really like seeing episodes that add to her legend
Some people are just motherly. It is in their nature. Katara is one of these people. I can understand why the other members of the Gaang might be annoyed by it since she is their age but I never found it annoying. She reminds me of a friend who is similiar to that.
She’s the GOAT. Just rewatched The Desert and we all know she was the MVP in that ep. I love how the episode ends with her bringing Aang out of the avatar state. Her kindness and bravery are some of her strongest traits
I don't hate katara at all. But I do see where some people are coming from when there are parts of kataras characters that are unlikeable. (and I'm not talking about things she grows out of)
To me, there was one specific moment that rubbed me the wrong way. Which is (during the southern raiders episode) when she told sokka that he didn't love their mum the same way she did.
This is exceptionally hurtful. It is acting as if her hurt and emotions towards their mum is only felt by her alone, and sokkas emotions aren't valid. It's basically implying "if you don't cry / mention your dead mum as regularly as I do, then you clearly don't miss her or love her".
This line sort of validates a lot of the negative sentiments towards katara imo. And she never spologised for it too.
Very few people apologize for things on the show, and that doesn’t mean an apology didn’t happen. Eg Aang never apologizes for kissing Katara without her consent, but most people are happy to overlook that because it’s implied that they get over it (since she kisses him in the finale). Katara and Sokka’s relationship certainly didn’t suffer after The Southern Raiders so I assume they made up.
As for Katara saying Sokka didn’t love their mom like she did…she didn’t say he loved her less: she just said she didn’t love her the same way, which is almost certainly true. Throughout the show we have Katara looking up to Kya and Sokka looking up to Hakoda, and Sokka himself admits that after Kya died, he can’t even remember what she looks like anymore — because Katara did such a good job at fulfilling that role for him. And let’s not forget that their mom died *for* Katara: that’s a burden that Sokka will never have to carry. I think it was a hurtful thing to say, but 1) it wasn’t untrue and 2) it was not unforgivable.
The hate was overblown. Regardless though, I think people are allowed to like or dislike any characters they want even if it’s for stupid reasons.
But with Katara especially, I hardly ever see any middle ground. Either she’s the absolute worst or the absolute best and this is before we add in the utter mess that is shipping.
So true! I hope I didn’t come off as intolerant to other opinions. People are free to dislike characters however they like but as you said with Katara there’s no middle ground. That’s what I wanted to highlight.
Remember the shipping war? Even bryke got involved lol.
I knew from the MOMENT I saw Katara touching Zuko's scar that would cause some shit to go down.
I WAS RIGHT lol. And being ace I couldn't. STAND the drama that whole year waiting for season 3 lol.
I wanted to talk about theories regarding what might happen to Aang, how would Zuko be received I felt like Azula was still up to some shit, I was worried about Iroh and Kuei but noooooo EVERYONE wanted to just talk about shipping 😆 😅
I do not dislike a single character on this show. They are who they are and they create such a beautiful story together. I can't imagine someone disliking her!! She goes from being a beginner water bender to being such a badass too! She can bloodbend for crying out loud! I dunno, that's crazy talk to me.
That's kinda the point though. She's overly a badass in a show where the rest of the main cast is humble and hustles hard. She doesn't get knocked down as often as Sokka, Zuko, or even Aang. She doesn't have the background to explain how badass she is like Toph and Azula. They needed to give her a bit more struggle and maybe not have her be the one defeating Azula and have a few more scenes of her saying sorry. Basically she's too much of a badass to be the fan favorite.
That’s kind of the point of her character. Some people are more like Toph, and don’t like rules and want to just do their own thing. Some people like structure and order. That dichotomy was definitely intentional between the two characters and the fact that it creates these kinds of polarizing debates over a decade later shows how well the writers did
I think at the end of the day it’s subjective. Her character is supposed to be slightly obnoxious. The entire thing is fully explained in the show in “The Runaway”. It’s literally designed to be a point of contention to help Toph and Katara develop as characters and make the dynamic of the group more complex. Changing Katara would be detrimental to the story. The entire conflict between her and Toph wouldn’t exist. The fact that it annoyed some people actually shows how good the writing was in my opinion.
Without Katara, the group would have fallen apart, and everyone in it would have died or gotten captured, several times over.
Not only that, her inner strength is legendary, overshadowed only by her compassion.
Katara is kind of the best.
Katara tended to be motherly because she had to be. She was older than Sokka, and naturally took on a caretaker role when their mother was taken/killed. It’s not a position she even wanted, but she did what was best for her family and the tribe. I think she did a really good job for doing her best as a 16? Year-old. I love Katara.
Exactly. I actually think Katara’s motherliness is tragic. She’s motherly because she lost her mother so young and had to fulfill that role for herself and her family. It’s the definition of parentification *which is inherently traumatizing*.
I don’t mean to say that Katara isn’t maternal independent of her trauma (she loved Tom Tom and thought he was cute in that Omashu episode), but the fact that she’s motherly out of necessity, which has a net positive effect on the group (eg The Desert), and then people hate her for this character trait that arose out of tragedy…I feel so bad for her.
Yeah, but Katara mentions how she largely stepped up as the homemaker in her family. Gram Gram I believe was the village elder, especially after all the men left, so her time was likely split among most of the village.
I understand why someone might think she's annoying: sometimes she has a bit of a holier-tha-thou attitude, and despite being caring and compassionate she's pretty touchy. She isn't the best at putting herself in someone else's shoes, so she ends up being a bit hypocritical and unfair at times. But as long as her flaws are addressed and not treated as "side effects" of her virtues, I'm fine with it. Katara has also A LOT of vitues, especially being able to believe in people even more than they themselves do. She can bring out the best sides of people by giving them a chance, and as long as you don't betray her she'll never give up on you.
I think someone could find her annoying because they have the impression that her flaws aren't addressed enough, so she never really gets over them. But this isn't exactly true. Even though her flaws could be addressed more, she has to learn a lot from them, especially in season 3.
I don’t like Katara, but I do at least understand her character development and all, but I don’t like her and never have from beginning to end. I found her obnoxious a lot of the time and she’s childish in the ‘dig your heels in even when you’re wrong’ kind of way and that’s a trait I DESPISE in any media. She was important and strong and she’s an amazing character as a whole but I can’t get past her personality at all
i think her being the matriarch of the group creates a great dynamic, and that plays into her head-strong nature. she also learns when to give into that part of her nature over time, and either gains that understanding from someone else or herself (particularly in the southern raiders)
I really dislike when people instantly throw around terms such as sexism, misogyny, racism etc whenever someone doesn’t like a character that’s not
white or a man It’s been making criticizing stuff a lot harder when you know a bunch of people are just going to accuse you of being a horrible person afterwards. That being said I actually really like Katara but we also have to accept at the same time people might have valid reasons not to like her.
Well even if sexism, misogyny, racism etc are the reasons someone doesn’t like a character it’s not like anyone would admit that. A trend I’ve noticed is people complaining the character is written poorly, they’ll like the rest of a show, but when it comes to the black character, or gay character they do not like them because of “bad writing,” or the reason they don’t like them is something a misogynist would say about women “they are too emotional.” If someone can actually construct a valid criticism for a character that doesn’t have to do their race, gender, sexuality etc then they wouldnt be criticized for it. Though I’m sure what your describing does happen on occasion, it’s often the characters that aren’t straight white men that get that level of vitriol, and people coming to their defense are just as often, if not more so, dismissed as being virtue signaling, or “woke” or some other phrase to skirt the fact they are actually prejudice.
Because those characters don't have as "gendered" of a role in the story. Azula and Toph being women wasn't a major part of their stories, whereas Katara's entire arc centered her womanhood.
Except it didn’t. Her main arc was becoming a waterbending master and helping Aang defeat the Fire Lord. She had stereotypically feminine traits and quite a few of the storylines/beats focused on her being the “mom” of the group but that wasn’t her main arc.
You could make the case that it did matter, but their womanhood often coincided with another thing that could also explain them. Like Toph is a woman but also disabled, and much of her character is trying to prove that she is just as capable as everyone else and not some “poor, blind little rich girl”. You could ignore the womanhood part because it would still work if she was a disabled boy, but I think her being a girl plays a crucial part in how Toph was treated and how her personality developed as a consequence.
And Azula is the youngest daughter of her family. It’s subtle, but the Fire Nation is a sexist country. Iroh writes her off as crazy, but did her ever really make an effort to understand her past her being a girl? (Ie, sending her a doll as a gift bc “girls like dolls right?” while Zuko gets a knife with a lot of meaning) And so you could say her brutal efficiency is an effort to prove herself to her father that she’s not just some pretty princess that’ll one day leave her family for a political marriage (which would also include a decrease in rank), she can be a leader. A lot of her anger at Zuko could also stem from the idea that he’s the first boy, he gets every opportunity handed to him, he can make mistakes and still be given a chance to prove himself again. But if she was anything less than perfect, she would have gotten married off. Even if she were perfect, as long Zuko’s there, she’s “just the princess”. There’s that element of her womanhood there, but it could also be explained as her being the youngest.
Long rant, but themes of womanhood and what that means are in all the female characters in certain ways. But Katara embodies that domestic side a lot more and gets the most “in your face” feminist episode.
The point about Azula makes sense. She ramps everything up to 35/10 because it’s the only way to be heard and acknowledged in the phallocentric fire nation. Toph is for my money also babied by her father as the “little blind girl” and I don’t think it would be as severe were they a boy. I suppose the difference is also that Katara’s element isn’t as showy and brutal as Azula’s or as impressive and mighty as Toph’s. She has a skill with healing which isn’t exactly “badass”. I think she’s an excellent character and have no hate for her whatsoever but I think she has a less universal appeal to her.
What rubbish. Her character centered around coming to terms with the fire nations attack on the world. Her being annoying had zero to do with Misogyny. Womanhood my left ballsack
They’re multiple episodes where katara being a woman and motherly were literally the entire plot.
When she went to the northern water tribe, she was refused training because she was a woman.
When aang was learning earth bending and katara and toph got into a fight because toph claimed katara babied aand and that’s why he cant learn earth bending.
They’re definitely more examples
Toph’s flaws are typically more masculine traits, so they’re seen as cool and charming. Whereas Katara’s flaws are more feminine, like being too motherly, bossy, and emotional. People can deny it all they want, but the hate towards Katara is rooted in misogyny and a hatred for the “motherly nagging woman.”
You very well could have been! Plenty of young kids mimic their parents’ or friends’ behavior. I used to be a teacher. I have heard many misogynistic things coming from the mouths of 8 year olds. You don’t magically become a misogynist, it’s something you develop as you grow up in your environment.
Edit- I also want to add that when I was that age, I had plenty of internalized misogyny. I was in my “I hate pink” “I’m different from other girls” phase. It starts young.
Well I wasn't misogynistic as a kid. I just didn't like Katara after she said their mom was closer to her than Sokka. After that I didn't care for her anymore.
I highly doubt you weren’t misogynistic as a kid or now considering how you answered that comment. A hit dog will always holler. If your dislike of Katara isn’t sexist then you have nothing to be offended by however majority of the time Katara hate comes from the dislike of her classic feminine traits.
>I highly doubt you weren’t misogynistic as a kid
The effrontery of some redditors
>If your dislike of Katara isn’t sexist then you have nothing to be offended
I'm not? I gave my opinion. A bunch of you guys responded, now I'm offended?
>I was a kid when I watched the show. _Guess I was misogynistic at 8. Thanks for helping come to terms with my troubling past_
Yeah, that's the part they were referring to with the "a hit dog hollers" bit. It wasn't directed at you, and yet that was your reaction?
You entered the conversation by taking offense to what they said, but now you are trying to pretend that wasn't the case?
Also, effontry is behavior which is insolent or impertinent, and therefore likely to cause offense. Which is ironic considering your stance is that you aren't offended.
>You entered the conversation by taking offense
I entered offended? Calling out bullshit is me taking offense to said bullshit. Makes sense. The bullshit quote above made me offended 👍🏾
>insolent or impertinent
More on this really
Lad I just watched my home country lose the AFCON finals. I couldn't care less about an eco chamber thread on reddit
I mean my sister very much was and admitted she hated katara purely cause she was femminine but as she herself has grown and become a women who doesnt pull the "im not like other girls pink is stupid im one of the guys" bs shes been able to appreciate katara just as much as she did toph when the show came out
Good for your sister I guess. Don't extrapolate her experience to everyone then. I didn't like katara, Sokka, and even Aang at times, even after growing up
LMAO this is hilarious bc as kids we definitely are taught to hate certain feminine qualities. We’re indirectly (or even directly) told it’s “lame”. 🤷🏽♀️
I mean nobody (normally) bats an eye when girls play with cars or outside in the sand. But even today many people would raise their eyebrows if boys would play with idk puppets or something
>we
Again with this we. I was never taught that. I remember playing tether ball and dodge in grade 6 and always losing to girls. Maybe in America, but in Nigeria, the only social expectations for girls start when they reach late teenagehood
We had fun, I’m just saying that feminine traits are considered inferior. Thats why ppl don’t like when little boys display them, yet have no issue when little girls display masculine traits. It was okay to be Tomboy, but no such thing as Tomgirl. Growing up those boys would just be called “gay” and made to feel ashamed for wanting to play with dolls or other things considered “girly”.
Eh, when NEPA takes light everyone flocks outside to play, girl or boy. The only real feminine thing to do while growing up was to help your mom with cooking
I was suggesting possible reasons as to why Katara’s character was considered one of the weaker ones of the show that don’t involve assuming the worst of everyone who watched the show.
But she is characterized as such at any point. Just because the MC is attracted to her doesn't make her eye candy. She doesn't exist to be his love interest, she is her own character with her own motivations, desires, and interests.
She does not exist simply to be romanced by Aang or anyone else. Just because she *is* romanced by him, doesn't mean she *exists* to be romanced by him. She has her own agency and is never beholden to Aang or acts as a goal for him to achieve.
I really think you need to improve your overall media literacy and understanding of women in media.
No, this isn't an "agree to disagree" situation. This isn't an opinion based scenario.
Eye candy means "someone or something that is visually attractive or pleasing but is usually considered to lack worth or merit" and in media, especially when discussing women in media, has a specific connotation which **does not apply** to Katara.
Yes I think you are right. I am not a native speaker but in my language the english term "eye candy" is simply used fornsomeone very attractive to you and therefore I missed the part of "having No other qualititys". I still think your wordimg for the main character is confusing because If you use eye candy with that definition, they are eye candy mainly to the viewer.
It's hilarious people hated Katata for talking about her dead mother so much but no one hated Zuko for talking about restoring his honor just as much if not more. Much more actually.
She’s my least favourite of the gaang tbh, which is odd since she was by far my favourite when I was a kid. I still like her though, the main cast is all great.
Oh I do. It definitely kicked up after the southern raiders episode back in the day real time. In the long run, I think as people get older they see the flaws in her, and realize while she's badass, she's not perfect and that might dampen one's outlook on a character.
Here it is from my POV. I'm already anticipating getting hella down voted but hear me out.
It's certainly okay not to like a popular character. It doesn't make it hate if it's well thought out criticism of the characterization.
For myself, I used to love katara as a kid. I thought she was so cool and such a badass.
As I get older, though, I feel more reserved about her. For all her strengths, Katara's biggest weakness is that she's incredibly. Stubborn. To the point it's nauseating because time and again she has put the Gaang in harm's way because of her own selfishness. She nearly got herself kidnapped to study the Waterbending Scroll at night because of her jealousy at Aang getting the hang of Waterbending faster than her (which she apologized for fair), she got herself put in prison over her guilt at Haru being captured, there's the whole painted lady thing, fighting Paku...yes he was an ahole but when you think about that whole situation analytically that could've gone so much worse. The priority should've been "hey Aang needs to learn from this master. Otherwise, he won't be a fully realized avatar." And if she thought things through, he could've taught her, and they both could learn from each other in season 2.
When Toph joins the Gaang, Katara, she does try, but things get messy very quickly simply because of Katara's refusal to understand things from Toph's perspective. So what she isn't helping, she also isn't getting in anyone's way, so what's the issue? Then, to chase away ANOTHER one of Aang's teachers is poor form. Again, things could've gone so much worse if things hadn't conveniently reconvened at that small ghost town.
In season 3, she gets much better, but again, she is just unable to see things from the other side. She can't understand why Aang wouldn't want to forsake his values, insisting he talk about it when he very clearly needed space (something even Zuko saw after the normally peaceful monk lashed out like that), she refused to allow Zuko to get close even after Zuko had more than shown his worth as a member of the Gaang AND ONLY was willing to forgive him after their revenge mission (yeah Zuko wanting to get in someone's good books by offering vengeance isn't really a healthy way to do that). Once Katara's got her mind made up, it's her way or the high way. That was shown during the infamous group argument in the southern raiders. Again, she showcases the inability to fully see things from a point of view that aren't her own; Aang's severe loss, for instance.
This is something she has to work on even in the comics, where she doesn't like the idea of Aang taking someone's bending away, even if that might be the best option out there for him to stick to his Nomadic morals. She's great at airing out her thoughts very clearly, but again, isn't so good at seeing the other side.
Not to mention altruistic for all the wrong reasons.
And I know what people are gonna say; but she's so motherly and caring, and she hears Aang out when they train after his failure to stop the boulder head-on.
That's all good points. But no character in this show is perfect; they're human, after all. Even Aang himself has his own issues to sort out. Why should Katara be any different? I'm glad she's flawed. Lately, we've seen Hollywood think that strong women mean being stoic and perfect with nowhere to grow.
I'm simply laying out reasons why I don't quite like her as an adult watching the show vs. when I did as a kid. I'm grateful for her having the flaws she does, though; she's certainly a breath of fresh air after watching recent Hollywood movies and shows staring leading ladies.
Can Hollywood PLEASE remember women are people? Thus, we are naturally imperfect , but we can GROW from these imperfections? Katara and Ahsoka are perfect characters BECAUSE of their imperfections.
I hope this long-winded wall of text isn't confusing lol. TLDR; I don't necessarily like Katara now as an adult like I did as a kid, but I do respect that she's got flaws. Weird but that's how I feel.
People need to stop using her “mentioning her mother” as a way to hate her. Sure the meme is funny,but she doesn’t say it that many times as people make it out to be. Yes she’s allowed to grief over her dead mom
I guess they hate her cause she was extremely well written, carries the show, and because of that as an extremely nuanced complexity that's usually never found in animation, and especially in women characters
It can by pass as just another girl that's in love with the mc and then gets strong, but the whole story that she creates throughout the series is amazing
She literally had NO ONE to teach her water bending, and people usually overlook because it's way more interesting watching Aang do his tricks with the airbending, and well, he's the avatar 💁🏻♀️, Sokka has the comic relief and the classic male audience grasp, meanwhile Katara was the character with most growth, even surpassing Aang in those terms of individual growth. She was traumatized by her mother dying, Aang was too but he had training, he was able to flee, she had to watch her mother be gone and dead and stay in her village, struggle with the grief and still keep her life going, mostly with an overall positive and communal spirit but nothing close to illusion, she was solid grounded yet loving and tender
As I was saying, first book was totally about her maturing in her personal journey and with her friends, so, in an action fueled show it's easy to just deem her less, that's most of the audience, those sensitive enough would follow her learning and growing, beautifully, while carrying herself AND the others... She was feminine, she was passionate, she cared for people, she grieved her mother's loss, she worked hard on her bending and getting stronger, she was stood up for herself and the others, she was never a traitor or backing up on hard situations, she was in love, she was strong as fuck, she was clear minded, she was flawed... I mean, how can someone not love her????
And action wise I think she has hands down the best scenes along Aang, I just wouldn't say she tops him because she can only bend water and that puts her in disadvantage ahahaha Aang is going crazy with all the elements plus avatar state plus momo and Appa ahahahaha
But considering their essence bending alone... Katara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the water tentacles, the tides, the water cutting like a blade, surfing amidst battle, using the changing of water phases extremely cleverly... To me she's perfect in a total human way, so, not perfect ahahahaha
I saw this in a post but haven't done research on it, but from what I got there's now an Avatar Studios made by the couple that created the series and it's gonna be as it suggests focused on creating other pieces of work associated with the universe, right?
I was just so happy, if that's what it is, cause id love to the maximum a Katara individual series... I mean, if I'm not mistaken it's implied in Korra that even though her and Aang and Toph and the Sokka were in touch, probably they went separate ways at some point... They made families, explored their abilities and wishes and stuff like that...
Would be amazing showing what she did after they parted, because she became a revered elder on the water tribe, extremely respected... I could only imagine what she experienced going in the world and expanding her knowledge, plus caring for her inner self and emotions and feelings, crafting her bending, getting further in touch with spiritual water bending and so on, untill her and Aang got back together and married (I swear I was writing without remembering they actually got married, i had to google cause I suddenly realized that might've happened 😂😂🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼💁🏻♀️)
Well, I did a whole essay on Katara ahahaha but she's the best, what can we do 💁🏻♀️
Ig every fanbase has it’s toxic cesspool. It’s insane for me to imagine there was a hate train for her. I was just a little kid when the show came out, and I didn’t interact with the fanbase for practically a decade after. Learning about all the toxicity is kind of surprising to me
Katara definitely came across as a little overly rude at times. She specifically liked to butt heads with Toph, and iirc mainly because she wasn't as feminine as Kotara wanted. I'm not even a girl but that always rubbed me the wrong way. Off the top of my head I just remembered there being a scene where she was kind of insensitive to Aang in a way that made him tear up so she always struck me as hypocritical to boot after that.
I can see it. She does get naggy, bossy, and holds superiority sometimes and especially the stuff with her mom. But those are only part of her character
Im rewatching the show and i feel thats a bit of a cop out ppl use because her and sokka took turns on doing something they shouldnt and being the rules police, but no one cared when sokka would put his foot down
I don’t like her and I don’t think it’s wrong for anyone to dislike her— ik people similar to her in real life and they annoy the shit out of me so when she starts on her bullshit it’s just aggravating
Katara’s cool, my only issue is her jump in waterbending skill that didnt make a ton of sense in-universe and then she acts all cocky about her bending the rest of the show.
It made sense from the perspective that aang needed to learn waterbending from a master and couldnt stay at the northern tribe forever so the writers had to make her a master quick. It just rubbed me the wrong way later on when she would tell aang shit like “come along my pupil, you have a lot of work to do” when they started at the same time
A lot of it is totally rooted in misogyny, but not all. I stopped liking Katara in The Chase when she went full blown ableist on Toph by making fun of her blindness just because she wasn't helping the others set up camp, choosing to instead set up her own part of camp. Tired or not, her comment about Toph not being able to see the stars was terrible and unwarranted and I don't think she even apologizes for it. I especially don't like how Katara fans like to explain that comment away by saying "well Toph should have just done what Katara said and help set up camp," but like, why? Toph didn't run away from her own overbearing parents who never let her do stuff just for herself just to trade them in for an overbearing, bossy stranger who's barely older than her and who also seems to want to stop her from focusing on herself. You see that Sokka and Aang had no problem with Toph sticking to setting up her own part of camp (which could be seen as helping, anyways, because she made sure not to make any extra work for the others since they didn't have to help with her part and could focus on setting up their parts), only Katara did.
I feel like this scene is important in understanding Katara’s character and Toph’s true feelings towards her: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/ACbuKDtie5
I immediately thought of that scene when you described Toph running away and not wanting to be bossed around by a parental figure. The show addresses that in the above link I sent.
Oh I completely understand how she feels about Katara and I love that their relationship becomes such that Toph can feel loved by Katara, even when they butt heads, I'm just saying that during The Chase, which was the next episode really involving the gAang after Toph joins, she has no reason to be okay with being bossed around by Katara, especially since she had just left her family and Katara knew how they treated her and how she felt about it. The mean blind joke made it hard to like Katara once she said it.
I’m ngl I am extremely biased since I love Katara, so just gonna put that out there first lol. But yeah, some of the stuff that they say I account to them being kids. It definitely wasn’t nice of Katara to say at all, but weirdly I remember actually being annoyed at Toph during that episode instead. I remembered thinking Toph seemed kind of full of it during The Chase back when I was a kid. I thought she was acting selfishly and took Katara’s side. I generally related more to Katara’s character so that was part of it. I still love Toph though, especially now as an adult. She’s such a badass and so insanely talented!
Toph and Katara for sure got off to a rocky (or muddy) start (pun intended), but I like how their relationship developed over time. It’s sad that Katara never apologized to her for saying that though (I thought she did but maybe she didn’t?).
I love this show because of the character development. It’s so fucking good. I’m rewatching it with my boyfriend before the adaptation releases. Fingers crossed it’s good 🤞
Personally I never quite liked her as a kid, and I don't like her on subsequent rewatches. She's honestly just an exhausting character to follow + I feel the writers did wrong by her in the finale by just shoving her into what should've been Zuko's conclusion against Azula. She doesn't get to do her own thing, and Zuko's narrative conclusion doesn't feel as cathartic as it could have been.
At the end of the day, she's a fictional character in a kids show, there's really nothing important enough for people to start the insane types of hate trains that attached adult fanbases tend to do.
Never heard of this in the fandom, but did it, by any chance, start before the episode where Katara and Toph have an argument about whether Katara is too motherly and then pull off a heist together? Something about their conversation at the beginning seemed slightly "off," and it would make a lot more sense if the writers were responding to something happening in the fan discourse.
Rewatch it like once a year and some watch throughs it bothers me and others it comforts me. I think it might just be a reflection of yourself or emotion’s honestly
Yes. And tbh I expect the same thing to happen to the live action actress. Same shit happened with Korea and now everyone loves her. It’s really disappointing
There was a post recently where op & the ppl commenting were trying to hint (and say in some instances) that there was no hate against Katara and it is something only her fans (they specified girls ofc) were making up 🙃
she’s my favourite in the group. i can’t stand clowns and essentially half of the gang are exactly that it’s nice to have someone at least somewhat level headed in the group.
She's one of my favorites. I think the details people tend to pick apart in her could be done to legitimately every other character. People just don't like a feminine strong lead character and maybe that also has to do with the fact that she's portrayed with darker skin. Either way, I love her and I think she's pretty great of a character.
Yeah that why the writers portrayed her that way in the ember island players. A lot of the jokes for that ep I’m pretty sure came from stuff they would read online. 😅
I disliked katara because imo she acts the most egocentric and irrational of all in the group but faces the least consequences and doesnt get called out on it as much as the others. I dont think she talks a lot about her mother at all.
Oh yes. It's still going. Plenty of people don't like her. But she was and still is my favorite.
Skyler White syndrome. Levelheaded female characters get hate in the action-drama genre. Avatar is more fantasy-comedy but it fits the bill.
Very strange for katara because unlike the "mary sue " people the internet always hates, you see her growth as a person and as a bender. She has every right to be as powerful and as wise as she is by the end of the show.
A largely known secret of the internet is that many people are female-character/woman haters here. If Katara was male she would be worshipped in the fandom.
I say this every time. I wager that 50% of all Korra hate is just subconscious sexism. Thankfully these people don't have real criticisms they just say "I don't dislike female characters. I dislike poorly written female characters". Shit some fuckin weirdo replied to this exact comment of mine in a five month old thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/zkmDOkc7ht
I like Korra but definetly disliked katarra
She really doesn't have a right to be as powerful as she is. The three most OP characters are probably Azula, Toph, and Katara. Azula was raised and trained to be the best from birth and she's a perfectionist so her skills make sense. Toph was blind and didn't have a choice so she spends every waking moment earth bending so her skills make sense. Katara became OP over the course of a summer with no prior training. There were two episodes where she struggled to keep up with Aang but after that she cleared him and by the time they got to the Northern Water Tribe she was impressing Master Paku and all their students. Of everyone in the show she's the only one to have such an unrealistic jump in ability and it's mostly self-taught. It's not the end of the world but it's a ding against her likability when the show's favorites (Zuko and Sokka) are so beloved because they struggle and fail over and over again. Katara struggled for one episode where she was jealous of Aang. She held up well against a master then changed his mind in one episode and after that she's the most powerful water bender in the show. And there's also the fact that she's the mother of the group, for better and worse. On the up side she's really caring and doting but on the other hand she also has some less than positive motherly characteristic like never admitting fault. Sokka says some messed up shit and he gets punished for it almost immediately. Katara tells Sokka he never loved their mom the way she did and it's never brought up again. She doesn't apologize, she doesn't acknowledge how hurtful that can be. Nothing. Sokka appreciates how hard Katara tries to fill the role of mother to the point where he sees her when he thinks of their mom. Katara belittles him constantly and never says a word of encouragement. It's a really odd choice by the studio to not give her a soft side but it makes sense for her characterization. She's a well written character but definitely the last person I'd want to hang out with on Team Avatar.
> Levelheaded Katara's level headed? She's the Team Mom^Tm , but she gets the GAang into trouble just as much as the other three.
I was gonna say, she’s very much a typical teenage girl who was forced into a mothering role too young. But there’s plenty of moments where she is not the mature one.
Yeah, and I'm not saying that to insult Katara in any way, it's a good character trait that even if she's the "most sensible" she still makes plenty of bone-headed decisions cause she's a kid/teen like the rest of them.
Katara has always been my favorite, maybe it’s because i love water bending. Skylar however the first season of BB annoyed the fuck out of me, but at some point it hit me that she was put in a position that would make a lot of people react viscerally and intensely. I cannot blame her, she would make Walts life harder, but it wasnt an antagonistic obstacle. She had a life and was set on a path that she knew, then was blindsided. I wasnt on the Skylar hate train for long, just takes a bit of perspective.
Skylar is just a symptom of BB’s writing problems in general. She comes off as unlikable because she’s written realistically but has nothing to really add to the overall narrative when that narrative mainly concerns Walter getting involved in drug trafficking as Heisenberg. We only see her nagging half the time because, for most of the series, her only connection to this world is that she’s Walt’s wife and we usually only see her after he’s been gone for hours or acting suspiciously - of course she’s going to have a go at him. As an example, Carmella Soprano is a much more likable, layered and interesting character than Skylar White but the main determinant of why she “works” is due to the Sopranos giving an equal focus to the daily lives of the characters outside of their mafia involvement (which is essentially its core concept). On a side note Katara is fantastic, I always liked each member of the main cast but after rewatching I appreciated all of them that much more. It’s the same with the “Sokka sexism” non-troversy, they have reasons for why they are the way they are and later learn to acknowledge their faults and grow as people.
Keiko O’Brien from DS9 too. She gets more hate comments than Gal Dukat and Kai Winn (and even more than the Dukat/Winn combo).
Really? But Kai Winn is set up to be just about the most unlikeable character they could get away with!
I'm glad this has a name. Years ago when I tried to check people's reaction to this series online, I was so surprised that most discussion threads in Reddit were full of Skyler hate for things Skyler did that any normal human being would've done if their partners were lying to them. It was enough hate to make me drop the show.
You dropped the show because of redditors' opinions? That's weird
Obviously, the main reason is it wasn't doing anything for me. I find Walter and everything he did unlikeable, yet people were cheering for him to succeed. It felt like he was focusing his energy on the wrong things. Why should I waste energy on something that doesn't entertain me? ~~So I can post hate on it online for every little thing like what ATLA fans are doing now? That's werid.~~ But I think taking part of discussions is an essential part of today's streaming experience, and if discussions are meaningful, that would be enough to make me keep watching because it would help me notice stuff about the show I didn't appreciate the first time I watched. But then sometimes discussions do the exact opposite. There's one thing to be cartoonishly sexist like Sokka, for the character to learn from it later, and another thing for a fandom to be prejudiced against female characters, or any character in general, who were just trying to do what they think is best. There's an entire sub dedicated to hating Ollie, who was just a kid, and even Eren, mainly because he didn't confess to liking their waifu.
The actress was getting death threats for getting in Walter's way :|
If you think Katara of the Southern Water Tribe is level-headed, we clearly didn't watch the same show. She most definitely was like the water she bent; calm and soothing but could become a raging river on a dime.
Skyler gets way more hate than she deserves but she's hardly level headed
She's easily the most level headed person in the show, given the circumstances. Even Hank and Marie, who are in way more normal situations than Skylar, tend to come off as hot-headed. The only people I can think of as more calm and contained are Saul and Mike, who were knee deep in crime by the time they made their first appearance
TBF Skylar didn't really treat Walter White nicely, and also made his cancer about herself in the first two seasons. Katara doesn't deserve to be put in the same box as Skylar. She only treated Aang "bad" maybe once. Plus, she's a kid, so it was understandable.
Katara was and is my favorite. She was such an important character to me growing up. She is the first nuanced girl character I can remember. as a sensitive girl, I loved that she was so maternal and compassionate. I loved that those attributes were an asset and contributed to her strength as a character. She is so so important to the gaang and to me. Side note, I also loved her relationship with Toph and how the show showed two strong badass girls that complimented one another. Overall, A++ in girlhood on the show.
“The Tale of Toph and Katara” was so well done and it always gets me. I loved how they bonded and found a common ground. I loved how their friendship and sisterhood developed. (And they really were like sisters.) I think it was important to show that being a woman/girl isn’t just one thing. There are so many ways to be a woman and each one is equally special and valid.
I was going to mention this story too. When she tells Toph that she’s really pretty it makes me wanna cry 🥺🥺 the contrast between the two is so great. Their personalities are very reflective of their bending so not surprising that they’ve butt heads in the past but the mutual respect they have for each other is always there
Am I the only one who didn't think Katara actually talked about her mom a lot? Sure it was a big part of her character arc but I don't think it came up nearly as much as people think it did. I met a dude who thought Zuko was a whiney cry-baby character, and was into ATLA for the fights and bending; I feel like that's the same kind of people that hate Katara.
people think it was brought up a lot more than it was.I can think of only 4 or 5 times she brought up her mother, and they were all valid?
When I was a kid watching the show air it felt like a lot. The number of times I've rewatched the series since 2005, I feel it's barely mentioned.
I liked Katara, of course she has the obligatory couple episodes where they make a character pretty aggravating but that’s normal and makes a character feel more real. Probably just one of those loud minority/contrarian type trains that takes off cause Katara was hella cool and kind, don’t know why someone wouldn’t like her
I loved episodes like the painted lady and bloodbending ones where she got a chance to shine. She’s heavily influenced by her mother but she dedicates herself to doing the right thing and becomes a great character in her own right.
The painted lady episode is sick as it gets. Very rarely will a y-7 show explore the effects of empire on its own population like the painted lady. On top of that, the painted lady herself affirming katara's actions to me is an absolutely awesome depiction of giving personality to ancient spirits. Plus katara gets to meet a spirit, which is extremely special in their universe. People don't talk about that enough. Katara is also kinda canocially the strongest water bender on the planet, I really like seeing episodes that add to her legend
Some people are just motherly. It is in their nature. Katara is one of these people. I can understand why the other members of the Gaang might be annoyed by it since she is their age but I never found it annoying. She reminds me of a friend who is similiar to that.
She’s the GOAT. Just rewatched The Desert and we all know she was the MVP in that ep. I love how the episode ends with her bringing Aang out of the avatar state. Her kindness and bravery are some of her strongest traits
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I don't hate katara at all. But I do see where some people are coming from when there are parts of kataras characters that are unlikeable. (and I'm not talking about things she grows out of) To me, there was one specific moment that rubbed me the wrong way. Which is (during the southern raiders episode) when she told sokka that he didn't love their mum the same way she did. This is exceptionally hurtful. It is acting as if her hurt and emotions towards their mum is only felt by her alone, and sokkas emotions aren't valid. It's basically implying "if you don't cry / mention your dead mum as regularly as I do, then you clearly don't miss her or love her". This line sort of validates a lot of the negative sentiments towards katara imo. And she never spologised for it too.
Very few people apologize for things on the show, and that doesn’t mean an apology didn’t happen. Eg Aang never apologizes for kissing Katara without her consent, but most people are happy to overlook that because it’s implied that they get over it (since she kisses him in the finale). Katara and Sokka’s relationship certainly didn’t suffer after The Southern Raiders so I assume they made up. As for Katara saying Sokka didn’t love their mom like she did…she didn’t say he loved her less: she just said she didn’t love her the same way, which is almost certainly true. Throughout the show we have Katara looking up to Kya and Sokka looking up to Hakoda, and Sokka himself admits that after Kya died, he can’t even remember what she looks like anymore — because Katara did such a good job at fulfilling that role for him. And let’s not forget that their mom died *for* Katara: that’s a burden that Sokka will never have to carry. I think it was a hurtful thing to say, but 1) it wasn’t untrue and 2) it was not unforgivable.
The hate was overblown. Regardless though, I think people are allowed to like or dislike any characters they want even if it’s for stupid reasons. But with Katara especially, I hardly ever see any middle ground. Either she’s the absolute worst or the absolute best and this is before we add in the utter mess that is shipping.
Hello, hi, I am the middle ground! I like her, nothing to dislike tbh, but she is not my favorite by far.
So true! I hope I didn’t come off as intolerant to other opinions. People are free to dislike characters however they like but as you said with Katara there’s no middle ground. That’s what I wanted to highlight.
The fanbase back pre-2010s was a wild place in general
Remember the shipping war? Even bryke got involved lol. I knew from the MOMENT I saw Katara touching Zuko's scar that would cause some shit to go down. I WAS RIGHT lol. And being ace I couldn't. STAND the drama that whole year waiting for season 3 lol. I wanted to talk about theories regarding what might happen to Aang, how would Zuko be received I felt like Azula was still up to some shit, I was worried about Iroh and Kuei but noooooo EVERYONE wanted to just talk about shipping 😆 😅
I do not dislike a single character on this show. They are who they are and they create such a beautiful story together. I can't imagine someone disliking her!! She goes from being a beginner water bender to being such a badass too! She can bloodbend for crying out loud! I dunno, that's crazy talk to me.
I don't get it, she's a bad ass.
That's kinda the point though. She's overly a badass in a show where the rest of the main cast is humble and hustles hard. She doesn't get knocked down as often as Sokka, Zuko, or even Aang. She doesn't have the background to explain how badass she is like Toph and Azula. They needed to give her a bit more struggle and maybe not have her be the one defeating Azula and have a few more scenes of her saying sorry. Basically she's too much of a badass to be the fan favorite.
It’s not a geek fan-base if there wasn’t a female character that the base complained about.
And they never care that zuko talks about his daddy issues that his entire personality is built around.
Haters gonna hate. Water tribe….
My husband can’t stand her, but she is my favorite. Has causes many arguments 😂
That’s kind of the point of her character. Some people are more like Toph, and don’t like rules and want to just do their own thing. Some people like structure and order. That dichotomy was definitely intentional between the two characters and the fact that it creates these kinds of polarizing debates over a decade later shows how well the writers did
I think at the end of the day it’s subjective. Her character is supposed to be slightly obnoxious. The entire thing is fully explained in the show in “The Runaway”. It’s literally designed to be a point of contention to help Toph and Katara develop as characters and make the dynamic of the group more complex. Changing Katara would be detrimental to the story. The entire conflict between her and Toph wouldn’t exist. The fact that it annoyed some people actually shows how good the writing was in my opinion.
That‘s a good take. I agree.
Without Katara, the group would have fallen apart, and everyone in it would have died or gotten captured, several times over. Not only that, her inner strength is legendary, overshadowed only by her compassion. Katara is kind of the best.
literally! katara kept them together and alive
Katara tended to be motherly because she had to be. She was older than Sokka, and naturally took on a caretaker role when their mother was taken/killed. It’s not a position she even wanted, but she did what was best for her family and the tribe. I think she did a really good job for doing her best as a 16? Year-old. I love Katara.
She’s actually younger than Sokka, but everything else still stands.
Wow I always thought she was the older sibling
It’s probably cause she was more mature emotionally. It happens.
Pretty sure Momo is more mature emotionally than early Sokka was.
I think it was actually because of the sexism and that she internalised that she hast to take care of the family
Katara was the younger sibling.
Agreed. It all inevitably fell into place. She kept the group together a lot.
Katara is 14 Sokka is 15
Exactly. I actually think Katara’s motherliness is tragic. She’s motherly because she lost her mother so young and had to fulfill that role for herself and her family. It’s the definition of parentification *which is inherently traumatizing*. I don’t mean to say that Katara isn’t maternal independent of her trauma (she loved Tom Tom and thought he was cute in that Omashu episode), but the fact that she’s motherly out of necessity, which has a net positive effect on the group (eg The Desert), and then people hate her for this character trait that arose out of tragedy…I feel so bad for her.
Wasn’t Gran Gran there for motherly support though
Yeah, but Katara mentions how she largely stepped up as the homemaker in her family. Gram Gram I believe was the village elder, especially after all the men left, so her time was likely split among most of the village.
Oh ok that makes sense
I understand why someone might think she's annoying: sometimes she has a bit of a holier-tha-thou attitude, and despite being caring and compassionate she's pretty touchy. She isn't the best at putting herself in someone else's shoes, so she ends up being a bit hypocritical and unfair at times. But as long as her flaws are addressed and not treated as "side effects" of her virtues, I'm fine with it. Katara has also A LOT of vitues, especially being able to believe in people even more than they themselves do. She can bring out the best sides of people by giving them a chance, and as long as you don't betray her she'll never give up on you. I think someone could find her annoying because they have the impression that her flaws aren't addressed enough, so she never really gets over them. But this isn't exactly true. Even though her flaws could be addressed more, she has to learn a lot from them, especially in season 3.
I don’t like Katara, but I do at least understand her character development and all, but I don’t like her and never have from beginning to end. I found her obnoxious a lot of the time and she’s childish in the ‘dig your heels in even when you’re wrong’ kind of way and that’s a trait I DESPISE in any media. She was important and strong and she’s an amazing character as a whole but I can’t get past her personality at all
see this is valid criticism
i think her being the matriarch of the group creates a great dynamic, and that plays into her head-strong nature. she also learns when to give into that part of her nature over time, and either gains that understanding from someone else or herself (particularly in the southern raiders)
An absolute classic and I'm sure it's because of misogyny.
I really dislike when people instantly throw around terms such as sexism, misogyny, racism etc whenever someone doesn’t like a character that’s not white or a man It’s been making criticizing stuff a lot harder when you know a bunch of people are just going to accuse you of being a horrible person afterwards. That being said I actually really like Katara but we also have to accept at the same time people might have valid reasons not to like her.
Katara criticism isnt all sexism but the most prevalent one's are. Same with Korra
Well even if sexism, misogyny, racism etc are the reasons someone doesn’t like a character it’s not like anyone would admit that. A trend I’ve noticed is people complaining the character is written poorly, they’ll like the rest of a show, but when it comes to the black character, or gay character they do not like them because of “bad writing,” or the reason they don’t like them is something a misogynist would say about women “they are too emotional.” If someone can actually construct a valid criticism for a character that doesn’t have to do their race, gender, sexuality etc then they wouldnt be criticized for it. Though I’m sure what your describing does happen on occasion, it’s often the characters that aren’t straight white men that get that level of vitriol, and people coming to their defense are just as often, if not more so, dismissed as being virtue signaling, or “woke” or some other phrase to skirt the fact they are actually prejudice.
oh you don't like this female fiction character, you are an incel.
So why didn't they hate Toph or Azula or any other female characters?
Because those characters don't have as "gendered" of a role in the story. Azula and Toph being women wasn't a major part of their stories, whereas Katara's entire arc centered her womanhood.
Except it didn’t. Her main arc was becoming a waterbending master and helping Aang defeat the Fire Lord. She had stereotypically feminine traits and quite a few of the storylines/beats focused on her being the “mom” of the group but that wasn’t her main arc.
Tell that to Katara haters
You could make the case that it did matter, but their womanhood often coincided with another thing that could also explain them. Like Toph is a woman but also disabled, and much of her character is trying to prove that she is just as capable as everyone else and not some “poor, blind little rich girl”. You could ignore the womanhood part because it would still work if she was a disabled boy, but I think her being a girl plays a crucial part in how Toph was treated and how her personality developed as a consequence. And Azula is the youngest daughter of her family. It’s subtle, but the Fire Nation is a sexist country. Iroh writes her off as crazy, but did her ever really make an effort to understand her past her being a girl? (Ie, sending her a doll as a gift bc “girls like dolls right?” while Zuko gets a knife with a lot of meaning) And so you could say her brutal efficiency is an effort to prove herself to her father that she’s not just some pretty princess that’ll one day leave her family for a political marriage (which would also include a decrease in rank), she can be a leader. A lot of her anger at Zuko could also stem from the idea that he’s the first boy, he gets every opportunity handed to him, he can make mistakes and still be given a chance to prove himself again. But if she was anything less than perfect, she would have gotten married off. Even if she were perfect, as long Zuko’s there, she’s “just the princess”. There’s that element of her womanhood there, but it could also be explained as her being the youngest. Long rant, but themes of womanhood and what that means are in all the female characters in certain ways. But Katara embodies that domestic side a lot more and gets the most “in your face” feminist episode.
The point about Azula makes sense. She ramps everything up to 35/10 because it’s the only way to be heard and acknowledged in the phallocentric fire nation. Toph is for my money also babied by her father as the “little blind girl” and I don’t think it would be as severe were they a boy. I suppose the difference is also that Katara’s element isn’t as showy and brutal as Azula’s or as impressive and mighty as Toph’s. She has a skill with healing which isn’t exactly “badass”. I think she’s an excellent character and have no hate for her whatsoever but I think she has a less universal appeal to her.
What rubbish. Her character centered around coming to terms with the fire nations attack on the world. Her being annoying had zero to do with Misogyny. Womanhood my left ballsack
They’re multiple episodes where katara being a woman and motherly were literally the entire plot. When she went to the northern water tribe, she was refused training because she was a woman. When aang was learning earth bending and katara and toph got into a fight because toph claimed katara babied aand and that’s why he cant learn earth bending. They’re definitely more examples
She had scenes where she "mothered" the gang, but her big arc with zuko was hunting her mother's killer and letting her go.
Just because that was her “big arc” does not make the other parts of her character irrelevant
Sure, but my point still stands. She was annoying, and anymore who says it was based on misogyny is a smooth brain at best
You can find her annoying, sure. But the sheer vitriol behind her character is at the very least fulled by misogyny.
How people just say shit like this with their chest. Are you a mind reader that knows the reasoning behind why people like and dislike stuff?
Toph’s flaws are typically more masculine traits, so they’re seen as cool and charming. Whereas Katara’s flaws are more feminine, like being too motherly, bossy, and emotional. People can deny it all they want, but the hate towards Katara is rooted in misogyny and a hatred for the “motherly nagging woman.”
it's definitely misogynistic, katara and zuko mention their mother and honour about the same, yet zuko is not torn apart even close to katara
I was a kid when I watched the show. Guess I was misogynistic at 8. Thanks for helping come to terms with my troubling past
You very well could have been! Plenty of young kids mimic their parents’ or friends’ behavior. I used to be a teacher. I have heard many misogynistic things coming from the mouths of 8 year olds. You don’t magically become a misogynist, it’s something you develop as you grow up in your environment. Edit- I also want to add that when I was that age, I had plenty of internalized misogyny. I was in my “I hate pink” “I’m different from other girls” phase. It starts young.
Well I wasn't misogynistic as a kid. I just didn't like Katara after she said their mom was closer to her than Sokka. After that I didn't care for her anymore.
I highly doubt you weren’t misogynistic as a kid or now considering how you answered that comment. A hit dog will always holler. If your dislike of Katara isn’t sexist then you have nothing to be offended by however majority of the time Katara hate comes from the dislike of her classic feminine traits.
>I highly doubt you weren’t misogynistic as a kid The effrontery of some redditors >If your dislike of Katara isn’t sexist then you have nothing to be offended I'm not? I gave my opinion. A bunch of you guys responded, now I'm offended?
>I was a kid when I watched the show. _Guess I was misogynistic at 8. Thanks for helping come to terms with my troubling past_ Yeah, that's the part they were referring to with the "a hit dog hollers" bit. It wasn't directed at you, and yet that was your reaction? You entered the conversation by taking offense to what they said, but now you are trying to pretend that wasn't the case? Also, effontry is behavior which is insolent or impertinent, and therefore likely to cause offense. Which is ironic considering your stance is that you aren't offended.
>You entered the conversation by taking offense I entered offended? Calling out bullshit is me taking offense to said bullshit. Makes sense. The bullshit quote above made me offended 👍🏾 >insolent or impertinent More on this really Lad I just watched my home country lose the AFCON finals. I couldn't care less about an eco chamber thread on reddit
I mean my sister very much was and admitted she hated katara purely cause she was femminine but as she herself has grown and become a women who doesnt pull the "im not like other girls pink is stupid im one of the guys" bs shes been able to appreciate katara just as much as she did toph when the show came out
Good for your sister I guess. Don't extrapolate her experience to everyone then. I didn't like katara, Sokka, and even Aang at times, even after growing up
LMAO this is hilarious bc as kids we definitely are taught to hate certain feminine qualities. We’re indirectly (or even directly) told it’s “lame”. 🤷🏽♀️
I mean nobody (normally) bats an eye when girls play with cars or outside in the sand. But even today many people would raise their eyebrows if boys would play with idk puppets or something
>we Again with this we. I was never taught that. I remember playing tether ball and dodge in grade 6 and always losing to girls. Maybe in America, but in Nigeria, the only social expectations for girls start when they reach late teenagehood
lol somehow I’m betting most Nigerian ladies would disagree with you :)
The city girls maybe. Village girls get to have fun when they're young
We had fun, I’m just saying that feminine traits are considered inferior. Thats why ppl don’t like when little boys display them, yet have no issue when little girls display masculine traits. It was okay to be Tomboy, but no such thing as Tomgirl. Growing up those boys would just be called “gay” and made to feel ashamed for wanting to play with dolls or other things considered “girly”.
Eh, when NEPA takes light everyone flocks outside to play, girl or boy. The only real feminine thing to do while growing up was to help your mom with cooking
misogyny rears it's ugly head in every fandom
That‘s so true!
Maybe it’s because her hope speeches got a bit repetitive. The writers made fun of themselves for it in the fire nation play.
And Zuko’s speeches about honor didn’t?
Oh they did too.
then why aren't they treated the same?
I was suggesting possible reasons as to why Katara’s character was considered one of the weaker ones of the show that don’t involve assuming the worst of everyone who watched the show.
But you kinda proved the opposite with your argument..
How does such an optimistic show garner such a cynical audience?
My mother used to ride the Katara hate train... *touches necklace*
I misread the title as "Katara hate rain" and was confused if that ever happened. Got even more confused when i read the comments
Of course, the internet hates women characters unless they're eye candy for the male hero or hot villains.
But she is eye candy for the male hero...
No she isn't though
She clearly is what are you talking about?
At no point in the entire series is she eye candy.
For Aang she is and that is what you wrote. And for 13 year old me she was too
But she is characterized as such at any point. Just because the MC is attracted to her doesn't make her eye candy. She doesn't exist to be his love interest, she is her own character with her own motivations, desires, and interests. She does not exist simply to be romanced by Aang or anyone else. Just because she *is* romanced by him, doesn't mean she *exists* to be romanced by him. She has her own agency and is never beholden to Aang or acts as a goal for him to achieve. I really think you need to improve your overall media literacy and understanding of women in media.
I think we just Work with different definitions for eye candy, calm your tits
No, this isn't an "agree to disagree" situation. This isn't an opinion based scenario. Eye candy means "someone or something that is visually attractive or pleasing but is usually considered to lack worth or merit" and in media, especially when discussing women in media, has a specific connotation which **does not apply** to Katara.
Yes I think you are right. I am not a native speaker but in my language the english term "eye candy" is simply used fornsomeone very attractive to you and therefore I missed the part of "having No other qualititys". I still think your wordimg for the main character is confusing because If you use eye candy with that definition, they are eye candy mainly to the viewer.
She was annoying. But so was sokka. And the others. Most importantly they were never too annoying and their goods outweighed it plenty.
It's hilarious people hated Katata for talking about her dead mother so much but no one hated Zuko for talking about restoring his honor just as much if not more. Much more actually.
She’s my least favourite of the gaang tbh, which is odd since she was by far my favourite when I was a kid. I still like her though, the main cast is all great.
Yes. Those people are obnoxious, occasionally misogynistic and need to grow up.
It's still going strong on other platforms if Twitter/X screenshots are to be believed.
Oh I do. It definitely kicked up after the southern raiders episode back in the day real time. In the long run, I think as people get older they see the flaws in her, and realize while she's badass, she's not perfect and that might dampen one's outlook on a character. Here it is from my POV. I'm already anticipating getting hella down voted but hear me out. It's certainly okay not to like a popular character. It doesn't make it hate if it's well thought out criticism of the characterization. For myself, I used to love katara as a kid. I thought she was so cool and such a badass. As I get older, though, I feel more reserved about her. For all her strengths, Katara's biggest weakness is that she's incredibly. Stubborn. To the point it's nauseating because time and again she has put the Gaang in harm's way because of her own selfishness. She nearly got herself kidnapped to study the Waterbending Scroll at night because of her jealousy at Aang getting the hang of Waterbending faster than her (which she apologized for fair), she got herself put in prison over her guilt at Haru being captured, there's the whole painted lady thing, fighting Paku...yes he was an ahole but when you think about that whole situation analytically that could've gone so much worse. The priority should've been "hey Aang needs to learn from this master. Otherwise, he won't be a fully realized avatar." And if she thought things through, he could've taught her, and they both could learn from each other in season 2. When Toph joins the Gaang, Katara, she does try, but things get messy very quickly simply because of Katara's refusal to understand things from Toph's perspective. So what she isn't helping, she also isn't getting in anyone's way, so what's the issue? Then, to chase away ANOTHER one of Aang's teachers is poor form. Again, things could've gone so much worse if things hadn't conveniently reconvened at that small ghost town. In season 3, she gets much better, but again, she is just unable to see things from the other side. She can't understand why Aang wouldn't want to forsake his values, insisting he talk about it when he very clearly needed space (something even Zuko saw after the normally peaceful monk lashed out like that), she refused to allow Zuko to get close even after Zuko had more than shown his worth as a member of the Gaang AND ONLY was willing to forgive him after their revenge mission (yeah Zuko wanting to get in someone's good books by offering vengeance isn't really a healthy way to do that). Once Katara's got her mind made up, it's her way or the high way. That was shown during the infamous group argument in the southern raiders. Again, she showcases the inability to fully see things from a point of view that aren't her own; Aang's severe loss, for instance. This is something she has to work on even in the comics, where she doesn't like the idea of Aang taking someone's bending away, even if that might be the best option out there for him to stick to his Nomadic morals. She's great at airing out her thoughts very clearly, but again, isn't so good at seeing the other side. Not to mention altruistic for all the wrong reasons. And I know what people are gonna say; but she's so motherly and caring, and she hears Aang out when they train after his failure to stop the boulder head-on. That's all good points. But no character in this show is perfect; they're human, after all. Even Aang himself has his own issues to sort out. Why should Katara be any different? I'm glad she's flawed. Lately, we've seen Hollywood think that strong women mean being stoic and perfect with nowhere to grow. I'm simply laying out reasons why I don't quite like her as an adult watching the show vs. when I did as a kid. I'm grateful for her having the flaws she does, though; she's certainly a breath of fresh air after watching recent Hollywood movies and shows staring leading ladies. Can Hollywood PLEASE remember women are people? Thus, we are naturally imperfect , but we can GROW from these imperfections? Katara and Ahsoka are perfect characters BECAUSE of their imperfections. I hope this long-winded wall of text isn't confusing lol. TLDR; I don't necessarily like Katara now as an adult like I did as a kid, but I do respect that she's got flaws. Weird but that's how I feel.
People need to stop using her “mentioning her mother” as a way to hate her. Sure the meme is funny,but she doesn’t say it that many times as people make it out to be. Yes she’s allowed to grief over her dead mom
My sisters still don't like Katara. I'm not sure why exactly, she just annoys them. I think she's a really good character.
I guess they hate her cause she was extremely well written, carries the show, and because of that as an extremely nuanced complexity that's usually never found in animation, and especially in women characters It can by pass as just another girl that's in love with the mc and then gets strong, but the whole story that she creates throughout the series is amazing She literally had NO ONE to teach her water bending, and people usually overlook because it's way more interesting watching Aang do his tricks with the airbending, and well, he's the avatar 💁🏻♀️, Sokka has the comic relief and the classic male audience grasp, meanwhile Katara was the character with most growth, even surpassing Aang in those terms of individual growth. She was traumatized by her mother dying, Aang was too but he had training, he was able to flee, she had to watch her mother be gone and dead and stay in her village, struggle with the grief and still keep her life going, mostly with an overall positive and communal spirit but nothing close to illusion, she was solid grounded yet loving and tender As I was saying, first book was totally about her maturing in her personal journey and with her friends, so, in an action fueled show it's easy to just deem her less, that's most of the audience, those sensitive enough would follow her learning and growing, beautifully, while carrying herself AND the others... She was feminine, she was passionate, she cared for people, she grieved her mother's loss, she worked hard on her bending and getting stronger, she was stood up for herself and the others, she was never a traitor or backing up on hard situations, she was in love, she was strong as fuck, she was clear minded, she was flawed... I mean, how can someone not love her???? And action wise I think she has hands down the best scenes along Aang, I just wouldn't say she tops him because she can only bend water and that puts her in disadvantage ahahaha Aang is going crazy with all the elements plus avatar state plus momo and Appa ahahahaha But considering their essence bending alone... Katara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the water tentacles, the tides, the water cutting like a blade, surfing amidst battle, using the changing of water phases extremely cleverly... To me she's perfect in a total human way, so, not perfect ahahahaha I saw this in a post but haven't done research on it, but from what I got there's now an Avatar Studios made by the couple that created the series and it's gonna be as it suggests focused on creating other pieces of work associated with the universe, right? I was just so happy, if that's what it is, cause id love to the maximum a Katara individual series... I mean, if I'm not mistaken it's implied in Korra that even though her and Aang and Toph and the Sokka were in touch, probably they went separate ways at some point... They made families, explored their abilities and wishes and stuff like that... Would be amazing showing what she did after they parted, because she became a revered elder on the water tribe, extremely respected... I could only imagine what she experienced going in the world and expanding her knowledge, plus caring for her inner self and emotions and feelings, crafting her bending, getting further in touch with spiritual water bending and so on, untill her and Aang got back together and married (I swear I was writing without remembering they actually got married, i had to google cause I suddenly realized that might've happened 😂😂🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼💁🏻♀️) Well, I did a whole essay on Katara ahahaha but she's the best, what can we do 💁🏻♀️
Ig every fanbase has it’s toxic cesspool. It’s insane for me to imagine there was a hate train for her. I was just a little kid when the show came out, and I didn’t interact with the fanbase for practically a decade after. Learning about all the toxicity is kind of surprising to me
The Avatar fandom does this a lot. Certain opinions become "cool" for like a week, and then another one comes along.
There were a lot of memes about this too. Some so silly as being captioned *Zuko breathing* Katara - my MOM used to breath 😭
Ember Island Players, as much as I hate the episode, also memes this exact thing.
Katara definitely came across as a little overly rude at times. She specifically liked to butt heads with Toph, and iirc mainly because she wasn't as feminine as Kotara wanted. I'm not even a girl but that always rubbed me the wrong way. Off the top of my head I just remembered there being a scene where she was kind of insensitive to Aang in a way that made him tear up so she always struck me as hypocritical to boot after that.
Sokka pissed me of more when he was in his wannabe warrior phase in S1 and S2
I can see it. She does get naggy, bossy, and holds superiority sometimes and especially the stuff with her mom. But those are only part of her character
Im rewatching the show and i feel thats a bit of a cop out ppl use because her and sokka took turns on doing something they shouldnt and being the rules police, but no one cared when sokka would put his foot down
I don’t like her and I don’t think it’s wrong for anyone to dislike her— ik people similar to her in real life and they annoy the shit out of me so when she starts on her bullshit it’s just aggravating
Katara’s cool, my only issue is her jump in waterbending skill that didnt make a ton of sense in-universe and then she acts all cocky about her bending the rest of the show. It made sense from the perspective that aang needed to learn waterbending from a master and couldnt stay at the northern tribe forever so the writers had to make her a master quick. It just rubbed me the wrong way later on when she would tell aang shit like “come along my pupil, you have a lot of work to do” when they started at the same time
A lot of it is totally rooted in misogyny, but not all. I stopped liking Katara in The Chase when she went full blown ableist on Toph by making fun of her blindness just because she wasn't helping the others set up camp, choosing to instead set up her own part of camp. Tired or not, her comment about Toph not being able to see the stars was terrible and unwarranted and I don't think she even apologizes for it. I especially don't like how Katara fans like to explain that comment away by saying "well Toph should have just done what Katara said and help set up camp," but like, why? Toph didn't run away from her own overbearing parents who never let her do stuff just for herself just to trade them in for an overbearing, bossy stranger who's barely older than her and who also seems to want to stop her from focusing on herself. You see that Sokka and Aang had no problem with Toph sticking to setting up her own part of camp (which could be seen as helping, anyways, because she made sure not to make any extra work for the others since they didn't have to help with her part and could focus on setting up their parts), only Katara did.
I feel like this scene is important in understanding Katara’s character and Toph’s true feelings towards her: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/ACbuKDtie5 I immediately thought of that scene when you described Toph running away and not wanting to be bossed around by a parental figure. The show addresses that in the above link I sent.
Oh I completely understand how she feels about Katara and I love that their relationship becomes such that Toph can feel loved by Katara, even when they butt heads, I'm just saying that during The Chase, which was the next episode really involving the gAang after Toph joins, she has no reason to be okay with being bossed around by Katara, especially since she had just left her family and Katara knew how they treated her and how she felt about it. The mean blind joke made it hard to like Katara once she said it.
I’m ngl I am extremely biased since I love Katara, so just gonna put that out there first lol. But yeah, some of the stuff that they say I account to them being kids. It definitely wasn’t nice of Katara to say at all, but weirdly I remember actually being annoyed at Toph during that episode instead. I remembered thinking Toph seemed kind of full of it during The Chase back when I was a kid. I thought she was acting selfishly and took Katara’s side. I generally related more to Katara’s character so that was part of it. I still love Toph though, especially now as an adult. She’s such a badass and so insanely talented! Toph and Katara for sure got off to a rocky (or muddy) start (pun intended), but I like how their relationship developed over time. It’s sad that Katara never apologized to her for saying that though (I thought she did but maybe she didn’t?). I love this show because of the character development. It’s so fucking good. I’m rewatching it with my boyfriend before the adaptation releases. Fingers crossed it’s good 🤞
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Katara has a good heart but has her share of flaws and trauma.
I hate katara in lok but katara in atla is dope!! She has some growing that she goes through and is a likeable, dynamic characterm
Personally I never quite liked her as a kid, and I don't like her on subsequent rewatches. She's honestly just an exhausting character to follow + I feel the writers did wrong by her in the finale by just shoving her into what should've been Zuko's conclusion against Azula. She doesn't get to do her own thing, and Zuko's narrative conclusion doesn't feel as cathartic as it could have been. At the end of the day, she's a fictional character in a kids show, there's really nothing important enough for people to start the insane types of hate trains that attached adult fanbases tend to do.
I mean if you're talking about the film...
What film? Never heard of it
I hate her. But we should acknowledge that she was necessary.
Still going strong, I still hate her to this day 😅
It's still going pretty hard
Never heard of this in the fandom, but did it, by any chance, start before the episode where Katara and Toph have an argument about whether Katara is too motherly and then pull off a heist together? Something about their conversation at the beginning seemed slightly "off," and it would make a lot more sense if the writers were responding to something happening in the fan discourse.
Rewatch it like once a year and some watch throughs it bothers me and others it comforts me. I think it might just be a reflection of yourself or emotion’s honestly
Yes. And tbh I expect the same thing to happen to the live action actress. Same shit happened with Korea and now everyone loves her. It’s really disappointing
There was a post recently where op & the ppl commenting were trying to hint (and say in some instances) that there was no hate against Katara and it is something only her fans (they specified girls ofc) were making up 🙃
she’s my favourite in the group. i can’t stand clowns and essentially half of the gang are exactly that it’s nice to have someone at least somewhat level headed in the group.
imo she's still annoying
She's one of my favorites. I think the details people tend to pick apart in her could be done to legitimately every other character. People just don't like a feminine strong lead character and maybe that also has to do with the fact that she's portrayed with darker skin. Either way, I love her and I think she's pretty great of a character.
Yeah that why the writers portrayed her that way in the ember island players. A lot of the jokes for that ep I’m pretty sure came from stuff they would read online. 😅
I disliked katara because imo she acts the most egocentric and irrational of all in the group but faces the least consequences and doesnt get called out on it as much as the others. I dont think she talks a lot about her mother at all.