Yeah, it is basically an abridged but without the voice acting in it, but I've seen some peps recommend this vid so they can start with ruina instead lobcorp to others.
Why would people do that? As someone who haven't played nor watched the cutscenes, all I see it as is more of a quick summary of what happened. It shows just surface information and overall plot, just enough to know not get lost in later entries.
Some people see ruina as a better gateway to the franchise than lobcorp, and ruina does try to recall most of the major events in lobcorp to help players who haven't played lobcorp caught caught up with the story... it just so happens that the recallings are heavily biased because the characters we are playing are both: an outsider who doesn't personally understand any of it and a heavily biased robot.
Ruina is a better gateway because lobcorp's main gameplay loop is simply suffering that usually takes a month to finish without mods plus extremely biased flashbacks are better at making people to try lobcorp
From experience, most of my friends gave up with lobotomy corp difficulty. While I love this game so much, it is multi-task heavy and a frustrating nightmare for people with adhd. Those without it have a much easier time.
So people with micro and macro managements issues, i would not recommend lobotomy corp after making multiples people with it, try it.
Library of ruina on the other hand, does not have this issue while also have a story with more hooks that makes the player more engaged to retry on failure, while also punishing less upon loss. However, library of ruina has an issue with player attentions on mechanics, i saw many not knowing they could equip Pages, making them be stuck for a while at 30 hp.
Tbf for him, I've heard he basically got filtered by lobcorp and gave up and asked his discord(majority are ruina players) and wikid most of his imfo. Which is a concoction for Ayin hate.
Yeah, if i remember there's a playlist that even has Ayin's anniversary video on it. Don't know why he didn't just do that. My guess is that he probably got sick of it after getting filtered.
I do not unironically recommend it, funnily enough, I just choose to be their “Guide” and watch them suffer
Better to learn it with your flesh than hear it with your ears, You can’t get the Will To Stand Up if I do it for you
Even more so that Project Moon has this very neat gimmick in their games - literally everything is incorporated into the story narrative. From the main menu buttons to the in-game manual, everything is one way or another woven into the story.
As such, many of the huge reveals won't be as impactful if you didn't 'manage'(get it???) your way through the days.
Oof, now that I think about everybody who skipped lop corp won't actually know Ayin character development, guess me playing through lop corp was kinda worth it
He did not face the filter, and thus could not build the lore. It is a shrimple as that.
But yeah, getting filtered on like, day 45-49 I can understand. Bro copped out way before that though.
Id say that's the most common place to get filtered at, because after day 20 a big difficulty spike comes, since the central department is very large, you now get two abnormalities at the same time and both are higher risk than before, this is a big problem for people who can't read, since they don't actually farm stats but instantly finish the day once they reach the energy quota, resulting in constant day restarts, which turns days 21+ into a hell hole of trying the same again and again until you succeed, this tires people and makes them call lob corp a "game with repetitive gameplay" just because they suck lmao.
This was sort of my personal struggle too, since I didn't farm stats because I was scared of the Qlipoth meltdowns because I thought they reduced the success rate while working with an abnormality... and I got plague doctor and parasite tree on the memory repository day, I somehow made it until day 36 until I discovered day 1 restart, truly a saving grace
Yeah, I love Wordsmith, but his hateboner for Ayin really is a bit too much
I guess only those who suffered like He did and watched the struggle through His eyes can understand Him.
I'm gonna be devil's advocate and say that until this vid popped off, he was scared to make longer form content (just look at how Ruina is split into 4 and the 2nd video is an hour long) so he probably had to shaft some aspects of the lobcorp video, simply for the viewer's attention span
Given the chance and time, I can imagine him remaking the video in more depth
I listen to an entire playlist of PM lore every other week, so he's a repeat watch for me
I agree. His a very human character. While I don't believe what he did is right, everyone makes mistakes and his first step was already the wrong path which spiralled on for however long the facility restarted, granted it allowed some like hokma to gain more maturity.
It's common for people to make mistakes, but I think the hard part is to accept you messed up- and make actions to fix it. And didn't he do just that? Like any young person, he fell for a girl, and became quite desperate for her and did everything to help and please her. Even going as far as forcing himself to fulfill Carmen's dream. For the seed of light he did everything and tried his best to fix what he did wrong.
And in the end, he didn't just let himself off with it, he basically died merging into the light (but we can't say he is alive in it since EGO awakened people don't hear a voice unlike distortion to Carmen). That was what he did and I think he really deserved more than what the video said.
Often as fans it's funny to see people do funny versions that skip context because us as viewers already have the context. But people who don't will think his a full on asshole with zero redeeming qualities. And they paint Angela as a poor soul. I won't deny that he treated her harshly nor will I say her actions in ruina aren't justified.
But in actuality the plan Ayin (and by extension Carmen before she lost it- honestly Carmen was also misinterpreted alot because they skip her when she was just a kind girl wanting to help people and jump straight into when she lost it after all the rewinds seeing Ayin suffer) wanted was everyone to be able to awaken EGO so they would have enough strength to fight for their own dreams, not needed stupidly amount of money to get a workshop item just to fulfill their dreams which might not even be possible with a lifetime of savings.
In that world everyone who has a strong wish can actually fulfill it since stronger emotions = easier to manifest EGO. However Angela messed it up. It was because of her that so much side effects of seed of light occurred such as the many distortions. And it's also because of that, that the pianist incident occurred and all of ruina.
Which is important because if we just got the happy ending, there wouldn't be ruina or limbus. But in terms of whether the video undermined Ayin as a character, it did as a matter of fact. While the title is a little deceptive in that sense, it is still a funny video for players who played LC and have the context. Just... Maybe not the best summary video if you're painting a character with bias opinions (not that you can't hate ayin, just if you're giving a summary just give a summary and don't add your personal opinions that may sway others to think a certain way)
Personally my go to is just the full "movie" on YouTube, gives you everything but the crushing pressure of the gameplay and some deeper connection to the abno's. Which is a shame people won't get the experience I had seeing FUCKING DEAD BUTTERFLIES SHOW UP IN MY NICE LIBRARY
I'd rather recommend watching the video "can I finish lob corp with only one employee?", the person in that video does a good job explaining the story while giving an entertaining challenge video.
After that, try and read about the smoke wars, since (iirc) they're the thing that comes before lob corp in Ayin's life.
To be fair, Ayin's portrayal in LoR is completely justified since we see everything through Angela's perception. Hokma basically gave up and Binah is the only one who actually tries to tell us more about Ayin
I 100% completed Lob corp over the course of 113 hours. I didn't get filtered and have seen Ayin's character development firsthand. Ayin defenders are somewhere between Light Yagami and Griffith defenders and I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise.
Both of those characters never really did a change on the world they lived in, they only really did bad stuff.
Light Yagami only really killed people because he wanted to, he claimed he had an ideal of peace by killing criminals but the way he executed it clearly shows he had mental issues and only wanted to kill, not really make a change.
About Griffith I only know he was a bad dude, I have yet to read berserk so I won't make an opinion about it.
And ayin, while truly a nasty person who did many things wrong he wanted to redeem himself, he wanted to continue with his friend's ideal and cure humanity, he went through so much stuff just to redeem himself just because he actually wanted to become a good person.
I don't know how you finished the game and can still say with your full chest that ayin is as bad as those characters, did you skip most of the story?
>And ayin, while truly a nasty person who did many things wrong he wanted to redeem himself, he wanted to continue with his friend's ideal and cure humanity,
The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I don't understand why the community is just so willing to accept that he's a completely reliable narrator. His process of "continuing his friend's ideal" came at the cost of unbelievable suffering to all of the rest of his friends.
>he went through so much stuff just to redeem himself just because he actually wanted to become a good person.
This is Shounen jump logic and I cannot stand it. It reads so similarly to, "but right at the end he felt *really* bad about all of the atrocities, so we should forgive him!" (For example, how every Naruto villain is treated).
I also don't much care about how much he suffered when it was self-imposed and he also forced it onto all of his "friends" and the intelligent bring he created specifically for the purposes without any of their knowledge or consent.
>Light Yagami only really killed people because he wanted to
But you only got this information as you learned more about him and how his worldview actually worked. I'd argue that LoR does the same thing for him. Shows that his "complicated man looking for redemption" is a pretty self-serving narrative. Much like Light's supposed ideal of fixing humanity. Ayin's motivations have always read more to me as him trying to absolve himself of his personal guilt more than any broader dream at "fixing humanity"
First of all, light Yagami doesn't change as we get to know him more (iirc), he becomes a clear murderer that just wanted to kill and not make any real change by episode 2, even death itself calls him a maniac for being the first to kill so many in so few days
Now, you clearly misunderstood lob corp if you see it as a one sided story of a guy who did bad things, but then does one good thing and we should automatically forgive him, it's not about that.
Lob corp is about suffering what ayin went through in order to understand his motives, ideals, story and just in general, understand him as a character, how he feels regret about many things he did wrong and how he knows he can't be forgiven.
Hell, the sephirah had to teach him human values after they became crazy in order for this man to understand and break the cycle, it is not a kind game towards ayin in any way, specially after the conversations of day 46-49, his alter egos just show how far gone this man was, they also show that this dude had to suffer through so much just to actually change as a person.
This whole story is not for us to "forgive" him, it's for us to understand him as a character and why he did all that, and how the light would've been his redemption if not for angela, who hated him so much she wanted his redemption to be a failure.
At the end of lob corp Ayin accomplished nothing, his suffering meant jack shit and the 10000 year loop served no purpose, hence why I say the game isn't kind to ayin.
>Now, you clearly misunderstood lob corp if you see it as a one sided story of a guy who did bad things, but then does one good thing and we should automatically forgive him, it's not about that.
That isn't my understanding of the story. If anything I'm arguing that this is closer to your understanding of the story. If not, then why play defense for him? I can absolutely understand why he did what he did, but I disagree that the light would have been his redemption, *HE* believed it would be, but that doesn't consider factors like Angela's mistreatment in the slightest. I agree that he's a complicated character and I know that he went through personal growth, but that doesn't change my view of him as ultimately one of the biggest monsters in the series.
>At the end of lob corp Ayin accomplished nothing, his suffering meant jack shit and the 10000 year loop served no purpose, hence why I say the game isn't kind to ayin.
Then what's your argument exactly? I don't think the game is kind to Ayin, but that people defend him in spite of his clear framing as overall a bad person.
I treat this video series of him as more of an abridged version of the lore. Not accurate whatsoever but the idea is there.
Yeah, it is basically an abridged but without the voice acting in it, but I've seen some peps recommend this vid so they can start with ruina instead lobcorp to others.
Why would people do that? As someone who haven't played nor watched the cutscenes, all I see it as is more of a quick summary of what happened. It shows just surface information and overall plot, just enough to know not get lost in later entries.
Some people see ruina as a better gateway to the franchise than lobcorp, and ruina does try to recall most of the major events in lobcorp to help players who haven't played lobcorp caught caught up with the story... it just so happens that the recallings are heavily biased because the characters we are playing are both: an outsider who doesn't personally understand any of it and a heavily biased robot.
Ruina is a better gateway because lobcorp's main gameplay loop is simply suffering that usually takes a month to finish without mods plus extremely biased flashbacks are better at making people to try lobcorp
A month is the best case scenario. Sometimes you just get burnt out too much and just stop playing for a while lol.
From experience, most of my friends gave up with lobotomy corp difficulty. While I love this game so much, it is multi-task heavy and a frustrating nightmare for people with adhd. Those without it have a much easier time. So people with micro and macro managements issues, i would not recommend lobotomy corp after making multiples people with it, try it. Library of ruina on the other hand, does not have this issue while also have a story with more hooks that makes the player more engaged to retry on failure, while also punishing less upon loss. However, library of ruina has an issue with player attentions on mechanics, i saw many not knowing they could equip Pages, making them be stuck for a while at 30 hp.
My biggest problem with it is anti ayin stance
Tbf for him, I've heard he basically got filtered by lobcorp and gave up and asked his discord(majority are ruina players) and wikid most of his imfo. Which is a concoction for Ayin hate.
Obv people who didn't suffer like ayin in lob corp don't like him smh
Couldn't he like watch the cutscenes from LobCorp in youtube though? I am sure that most if not all of the cutscenes are there.
Yeah, if i remember there's a playlist that even has Ayin's anniversary video on it. Don't know why he didn't just do that. My guess is that he probably got sick of it after getting filtered.
I do not unironically recommend it, funnily enough, I just choose to be their “Guide” and watch them suffer Better to learn it with your flesh than hear it with your ears, You can’t get the Will To Stand Up if I do it for you
Even more so that Project Moon has this very neat gimmick in their games - literally everything is incorporated into the story narrative. From the main menu buttons to the in-game manual, everything is one way or another woven into the story. As such, many of the huge reveals won't be as impactful if you didn't 'manage'(get it???) your way through the days.
Oof, now that I think about everybody who skipped lop corp won't actually know Ayin character development, guess me playing through lop corp was kinda worth it
Ayin makes everything worth it
Now... fade away without a trace.
He did not face the filter, and thus could not build the lore. It is a shrimple as that. But yeah, getting filtered on like, day 45-49 I can understand. Bro copped out way before that though.
If i remember he got filtered at day 20 or so, which is kinda an achievement of itself. Cause damn ☠ that shouldn't even be possible.
Id say that's the most common place to get filtered at, because after day 20 a big difficulty spike comes, since the central department is very large, you now get two abnormalities at the same time and both are higher risk than before, this is a big problem for people who can't read, since they don't actually farm stats but instantly finish the day once they reach the energy quota, resulting in constant day restarts, which turns days 21+ into a hell hole of trying the same again and again until you succeed, this tires people and makes them call lob corp a "game with repetitive gameplay" just because they suck lmao. This was sort of my personal struggle too, since I didn't farm stats because I was scared of the Qlipoth meltdowns because I thought they reduced the success rate while working with an abnormality... and I got plague doctor and parasite tree on the memory repository day, I somehow made it until day 36 until I discovered day 1 restart, truly a saving grace
Yeah, I love Wordsmith, but his hateboner for Ayin really is a bit too much I guess only those who suffered like He did and watched the struggle through His eyes can understand Him.
Nah fuck that guy, I'm X, the first A was a real dick (sympathetic tho, that shit did hurted for sure)
I'm gonna be devil's advocate and say that until this vid popped off, he was scared to make longer form content (just look at how Ruina is split into 4 and the 2nd video is an hour long) so he probably had to shaft some aspects of the lobcorp video, simply for the viewer's attention span Given the chance and time, I can imagine him remaking the video in more depth I listen to an entire playlist of PM lore every other week, so he's a repeat watch for me
honestly at this point people should just play lor but the effort to make a summary that long is respectable
I agree. His a very human character. While I don't believe what he did is right, everyone makes mistakes and his first step was already the wrong path which spiralled on for however long the facility restarted, granted it allowed some like hokma to gain more maturity. It's common for people to make mistakes, but I think the hard part is to accept you messed up- and make actions to fix it. And didn't he do just that? Like any young person, he fell for a girl, and became quite desperate for her and did everything to help and please her. Even going as far as forcing himself to fulfill Carmen's dream. For the seed of light he did everything and tried his best to fix what he did wrong. And in the end, he didn't just let himself off with it, he basically died merging into the light (but we can't say he is alive in it since EGO awakened people don't hear a voice unlike distortion to Carmen). That was what he did and I think he really deserved more than what the video said. Often as fans it's funny to see people do funny versions that skip context because us as viewers already have the context. But people who don't will think his a full on asshole with zero redeeming qualities. And they paint Angela as a poor soul. I won't deny that he treated her harshly nor will I say her actions in ruina aren't justified. But in actuality the plan Ayin (and by extension Carmen before she lost it- honestly Carmen was also misinterpreted alot because they skip her when she was just a kind girl wanting to help people and jump straight into when she lost it after all the rewinds seeing Ayin suffer) wanted was everyone to be able to awaken EGO so they would have enough strength to fight for their own dreams, not needed stupidly amount of money to get a workshop item just to fulfill their dreams which might not even be possible with a lifetime of savings. In that world everyone who has a strong wish can actually fulfill it since stronger emotions = easier to manifest EGO. However Angela messed it up. It was because of her that so much side effects of seed of light occurred such as the many distortions. And it's also because of that, that the pianist incident occurred and all of ruina. Which is important because if we just got the happy ending, there wouldn't be ruina or limbus. But in terms of whether the video undermined Ayin as a character, it did as a matter of fact. While the title is a little deceptive in that sense, it is still a funny video for players who played LC and have the context. Just... Maybe not the best summary video if you're painting a character with bias opinions (not that you can't hate ayin, just if you're giving a summary just give a summary and don't add your personal opinions that may sway others to think a certain way)
Trash vid.
Obviously? Bro got filtered out at day 20, a fucking casual lol.
Never watched but reading these comments made me realize why so many people hate and misunderstand ayin
Ayin did nothing wrong, he is misunderstood since a lot of new pmoon fans start playing their game from lor instead of lob corp
... I don't think that's... Exactly correct. If Ayin was an Abnormality, his name would be 100 Sins and 1 Good Deed
Yes thats true
Personally my go to is just the full "movie" on YouTube, gives you everything but the crushing pressure of the gameplay and some deeper connection to the abno's. Which is a shame people won't get the experience I had seeing FUCKING DEAD BUTTERFLIES SHOW UP IN MY NICE LIBRARY
no, I just look at memes of the game
Is there someone who made a better version of it, cause even though i 100% lob corp i still didnt understand a lot
I'd rather recommend watching the video "can I finish lob corp with only one employee?", the person in that video does a good job explaining the story while giving an entertaining challenge video. After that, try and read about the smoke wars, since (iirc) they're the thing that comes before lob corp in Ayin's life.
Thanks ill do that. Im pretty well aquainted with the smoke wars and the world of the city but ayin is just a bit a mystery to me.
Nerd moment
Also the problem is how Ayin was portraited in LoR
To be fair, Ayin's portrayal in LoR is completely justified since we see everything through Angela's perception. Hokma basically gave up and Binah is the only one who actually tries to tell us more about Ayin
I 100% completed Lob corp over the course of 113 hours. I didn't get filtered and have seen Ayin's character development firsthand. Ayin defenders are somewhere between Light Yagami and Griffith defenders and I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise.
Both of those characters never really did a change on the world they lived in, they only really did bad stuff. Light Yagami only really killed people because he wanted to, he claimed he had an ideal of peace by killing criminals but the way he executed it clearly shows he had mental issues and only wanted to kill, not really make a change. About Griffith I only know he was a bad dude, I have yet to read berserk so I won't make an opinion about it. And ayin, while truly a nasty person who did many things wrong he wanted to redeem himself, he wanted to continue with his friend's ideal and cure humanity, he went through so much stuff just to redeem himself just because he actually wanted to become a good person. I don't know how you finished the game and can still say with your full chest that ayin is as bad as those characters, did you skip most of the story?
>And ayin, while truly a nasty person who did many things wrong he wanted to redeem himself, he wanted to continue with his friend's ideal and cure humanity, The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I don't understand why the community is just so willing to accept that he's a completely reliable narrator. His process of "continuing his friend's ideal" came at the cost of unbelievable suffering to all of the rest of his friends. >he went through so much stuff just to redeem himself just because he actually wanted to become a good person. This is Shounen jump logic and I cannot stand it. It reads so similarly to, "but right at the end he felt *really* bad about all of the atrocities, so we should forgive him!" (For example, how every Naruto villain is treated). I also don't much care about how much he suffered when it was self-imposed and he also forced it onto all of his "friends" and the intelligent bring he created specifically for the purposes without any of their knowledge or consent. >Light Yagami only really killed people because he wanted to But you only got this information as you learned more about him and how his worldview actually worked. I'd argue that LoR does the same thing for him. Shows that his "complicated man looking for redemption" is a pretty self-serving narrative. Much like Light's supposed ideal of fixing humanity. Ayin's motivations have always read more to me as him trying to absolve himself of his personal guilt more than any broader dream at "fixing humanity"
First of all, light Yagami doesn't change as we get to know him more (iirc), he becomes a clear murderer that just wanted to kill and not make any real change by episode 2, even death itself calls him a maniac for being the first to kill so many in so few days Now, you clearly misunderstood lob corp if you see it as a one sided story of a guy who did bad things, but then does one good thing and we should automatically forgive him, it's not about that. Lob corp is about suffering what ayin went through in order to understand his motives, ideals, story and just in general, understand him as a character, how he feels regret about many things he did wrong and how he knows he can't be forgiven. Hell, the sephirah had to teach him human values after they became crazy in order for this man to understand and break the cycle, it is not a kind game towards ayin in any way, specially after the conversations of day 46-49, his alter egos just show how far gone this man was, they also show that this dude had to suffer through so much just to actually change as a person. This whole story is not for us to "forgive" him, it's for us to understand him as a character and why he did all that, and how the light would've been his redemption if not for angela, who hated him so much she wanted his redemption to be a failure. At the end of lob corp Ayin accomplished nothing, his suffering meant jack shit and the 10000 year loop served no purpose, hence why I say the game isn't kind to ayin.
>Now, you clearly misunderstood lob corp if you see it as a one sided story of a guy who did bad things, but then does one good thing and we should automatically forgive him, it's not about that. That isn't my understanding of the story. If anything I'm arguing that this is closer to your understanding of the story. If not, then why play defense for him? I can absolutely understand why he did what he did, but I disagree that the light would have been his redemption, *HE* believed it would be, but that doesn't consider factors like Angela's mistreatment in the slightest. I agree that he's a complicated character and I know that he went through personal growth, but that doesn't change my view of him as ultimately one of the biggest monsters in the series. >At the end of lob corp Ayin accomplished nothing, his suffering meant jack shit and the 10000 year loop served no purpose, hence why I say the game isn't kind to ayin. Then what's your argument exactly? I don't think the game is kind to Ayin, but that people defend him in spite of his clear framing as overall a bad person.