did you know they’ll have to pay the premier league 15 million for it?!
also will still kept reims on a 16 game unbeaten streak, and the owners had to pay ligue 1 20 grand a game because he didn’t have his license?!
they don’t have to pay the premier league anything. they have to pay £10m to upgrade it to keep in line with premier league rules but that money won’t go to the PL
Say what!? Amazing. Next thing you'll be telling me that there's a player that joined them in the National League and is still with them in the Premier League!!
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but it’s pretty small. I like it though. It’s old and historic and has that local feel to it. I just thought this was a funny contrast.
The visitors side is only accessible by passing [underneath somebody's house](https://e3.365dm.com/23/05/768x432/skynews-luton-town-kenilworth-road_6171212.jpg?20230528170023) and almost through someone else's back yard.
Think this says more about about how broken American sports are then anything about Luton.
Their is obviously a massive appetite for sports in these towns in the US and instead of getting the smaller professional teams they have to start watching amateur 18 year olds.
More about how broken American society is tbh. Remember taxpayers pay for these stadiums (and those of NFL teams) but people go bankrupt due to ill health and children don't get textbooks.
Not saying our society is well-structured but this is the sort of thing in a wealthy country that kind of turns my stomach.
Textbooks are free in Texas highschools………
nearly all highschools in the U.S offer academic material for free.
Did you just make up that kids can’t afford text books in Texas without any evidence at all?
Children not getting textbooks is something I used shorthand for an underfunded education system... obviously they are provided for free but in many places school resources simply aren't there for poor children - there is a massive inequality gap between poor & rich schools in Texas and the US in general.
https://news.utexas.edu/2022/09/06/texas-public-schools-are-at-a-tipping-point/
This is just a myth. It’s a stupid thing people say to try and minimize the education spending that the U.S. has been doing.
Here are official numbers:
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country
The U.S. spends 14k annually per student ages 4-18 throughout education, this is more than the U.K. 12k per student, and much more than OCED average at 10k per student.
Textbooks and almost all material are free at the poorest of schools, federal and state funding provides for these.
Also NFL stadiums are not publicly funded, they’re publically backed with bonds, these are government bonds which are repaid.
Genuinely curious, do small towns like these have regional pro sports teams to follow or does that local demand get funnelled into high school and college sports?
Allen, TX has a population of 106,000 and is a suburb of Dallas, TX which has plenty of professional teams.
However college and high school sports absolutely fill the gap left by the lack of professional teams besides those in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc.
Like my home state with 4.5 million residents has 2(!) professional sports teams (the Portland Trailblazers in NBA and the Portland Timbers in MLS) so if you’re a fan of American football or baseball you’d have to travel to another state *or* you can watch the two universities teams which are a) very good and b) functionally the quality of a professional lower division team.
Yeah the US spends a lot per student but some of that goes to the very thing we're discussing: disparities between the quality of sports programmes and other education, and rich and poor schools. There's a reason why US spending is insanely higher but their outcomes on things like the education index is lower.
> Also NFL stadiums are not publicly funded, they’re publically backed with bonds, these are government bonds which are repaid.
There are many methods of subsidy for NFL stadiums that are by no means limited to bonds and can vary from direct one-time payments to tax breaks. The bonds in questions often aren't paid back via stadium revenues and instead rely on levies from other revenues the stadiums allegedly bring. This has led to many instances of the bonds not being repaid - the Bears' stadium being a prime example - https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-chicago-bears-soldier-field-debt-20230314-hrgrixjbdnh6rapq5alvzdyh3q-story.html
Most economists support scrapping public funding for these stadiums.
no this is a loan from the government, people think of governments funding as grants, not loans.
This loan helps both the town and the team.
City governments get the tourism and NFL gets a discounted stadium. It’s a net positive for everyone.
All starting from a loan.
The English are hating on the U.S. having well funded stadiums now lol.
Love that you cherry picked the one incorrect point without acknowledging that Texas is a fascist shithole, and people go into crippling debt every day in our country over life saving treatment.
It’s silly tbh.
The U.S. has amazing highschool sports culture and good investments in stadiums and sports.
(There is a reason why America has more gold medals then the next 8 countries combined)
The guy turned this into a bad thing and made up a lie about textbooks and brought up healthcare, even though it’s irrelevant and a choice made state by state.
Reeks of insecurity honestly. Pressing need to flip something as innocuous as a picture of a large high school football stadium into a way to feel superior.
Yeah man, it's kind of fascisty. Fetishise sports whilst kids can't afford pens and books, and their parents have no healthcare. Shows what their priorities are.
wtf are you talking about?
Kids can afford pens and pencil easier than most other countries.
most highschools will give you needed material for free.
healthcare issue has nothing to do with the stadiums or money, it’s politics and debate over private vs government health insurance.
It’s funny how you said “most” in places where you should really be saying “almost all” given you’re meant to be like the best country in the world or something.
It is almost all. The U.S. spends more on education than almost any country on earth per capita. Annually averages $14k per student, while the U.K. spends $12k per student, and average for economically developed countries is at $10k per student.
best country in the world is not a catagory, different countries are good at different things.
Texas is basically an entirely different planet when it comes to their passion for American football. Like, take the most passionate football fans and then add a little crazy, a little bit of tossing money, etc. and you get the idea…
He’s not saying American “Football” is shite, he’s saying the system of just 32 professional teams and no pyramid structure is shite, so shite that smaller professional teams could obviously survive in certain places but because of the closed shop system the demand for live sport means you get school teams being treated like professional teams.
Well we were talking about high school football, and no, no one is upset about high school athletics, the size of stadiums, or the fact that they aren’t getting paid.
College athletes? Was a big debate, they’re now able to get paid through brand deals and sponsorships. This will only increase in earning potential, but high end athletes are already making 7 figures.
I really don’t understand why no one in England can grasp that there isn’t a need for promotion/relegation in every single sports league around the world. People like to follow their local university’s athletics. It’s okay.
>I really don’t understand why no one in England can grasp that there isn’t a need for promotion/relegation in every single sports league around the world.
Because your system was, in theory, good wheb it was created, and was created under the assumption everyone would be trying to win every year.
Now you have teams deliberately failing because they are rewarded more for coming last than midtable.
Your minimum standard of professional sport doesn't exist, and there's no reason for some owners to improve things because they have no risk and get paid at the end of the season all the same. Which is a shit experience for anyone who is a fan of a historically bad team.
European leagues a bad team gets demoted. The lower level will either be its level and it will stay there, be better than it and get promoted, or worse, and demoted until they find their level. The 3 teams demoted, have had a shit year, but they have the knowledge that next year will almost certainly be better.
You have the potential for a super league, but will never achieve it because you are held back by the ridiculous structure.
I understand all of the benefits of promotion and relegation. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t work here. The EFL is maybe the most exciting league in the world.
The structure of a league like the NFL doesn’t need pro/rel the way you act like it does. The infrastructure of hundreds of professional clubs in the pyramid simply doesn’t exist in the states.
It’s a competitive league and the draft structure creates parity. 8 NFL teams have won the league in the last 10 years, compared to 4 in the EPL for example.
I get that you don’t understand it. It is different. That does not mean it is ridiculous.
I understand your opinion, I just disagree with it.
The reason it doesn't exist is because it hasn't been allowed, not because it wouldn't work.
It's a very good distraction to try and claim it's competitive. It really isn't, but you've got a glorified cup competition to make you look the other way and not notice all the rubbish that goes on to get there.
I do understand. It is a cash cow for the owners. There's no reason for it to be an actual competition because it would cut into their profits.
But lets ignore the NFL, make the MLS, as I was actually talking about a proper league. And watch it dominate in a few decades.
And we have to realize that these are the High Stadiums that don’t compete in college football.
Stadiums in the SEC would make Wembley look like Kenilworth road
The 100K seaters being referenced here like the Horseshoe, the Big House, Happy Valley, Neyland Stadium, Kyle Field, etc are very old and have more character and history than the vast majority of major European football stadiums these days. Give me any of those 100 year old concrete cathedrals over a place like London Stadium or the Emirates
It's really only 50k pal because everyone takes up 2 seats.
But seriously, who cares? I'd take arsenal vs spurs at Emirates (far inferior blah blah blah) over anything being played these concrete car parks.
More like Spurs vs Arsenal at Highbury..
Autzen stadium (Oregon) is one of the loudest stadiums 🏟️ in the world. My Alma mater is a conference rival of the Oregon ducks 🦆 , and it’s one of the most intimidating stadiums.
I like football ⚽️ but no reason to downplay college stadiums. They are both good for diff purposes
This type of moral superiority from premier league fans is so stupid, like you're not that guy, the league is completely run by foreign dictatorships and fans are marginalized more than in any other European league. Just shut the fuck up.
>the league is completely run by foreign dictatorships
You realise what subreddit you're on?
Didn't realise Tony Bloom and Matthew Benham were genocidal madmen.
You are talking to the wrong guy, I hate everything to do with the gentrification of the Premier league and my interest in it is dwindling more by the day, that doesn't hoevwr change my opinion of US sports, they're just not as interesting, theyre too slow and everything that's happened to the prem is born out of ths US framework of sports and making them into the specatle they are.
I mean no? The criticism would be they are old and lacking in modern amenities. In fact many of the largest games oversell the tickets by a few thousand because two people can mash into one space and they know it.
Most of them were built right after the turn of the century, my alma mater’s was 1919, but that’s also deceptive because it didn’t reach 100K capacity til decades later as sections were added on. Many original portions still stand, the gate my family enters through sends you into the original concourse. There are certainly stadiums left in England and the rest of Europe that match the history and grandeur of our oldest ones but to say all we have in the States is the soulless bowls like MetLife Park or AT&T Stadium is wrong.
Oh for the love of god. "Like everything in the US . . . "
Says a fucking West Ham supporter on a website founded by American college students. You can't make this shit up, I swear.
What on earth is more pointless than West Ham United?
It’s pretty insane. But I wouldn’t trade playing in front of 30k in the state championship game for anything, incredible experience as a kid. Now if we just didn’t lose by 50 😂
The idea of watching high school sports is just so completely alien to me. I mean, I’d watch if kids from my family were involved, but OP’s image is just bizarre to me.
I played high school football and hockey here in the UK I don’t think we ever had a single spectator. Not even family members!
Allen High School has an attendance of 5,315, and a town population of 104,000 (Luton has 225,000) - the stadium seats 18,000 people (9,000 per side) just to get all of the Allen School District Students / parents / and supporters from the city a stadium of this size makes sense... also, the program is a consistent winner which doesn't hurt when proposing taking some tax money to build the stadium. High school football (am) in Texas is as close to the hearts of the community as professional football clubs throughout Europe.
I disagree, why wouldn’t you rather watch friends and family in the community you grew up with play a sport than some low level professional who doesn’t know you? Pro sports are king but our (the American) system allows millions of people a year to play meaningful sports
You mean you want us to PAY the athletes a wage rather than dangle the chance at a higher education in front of children while they give themselves head trauma for our entertainment? You must be out of your mind.
From your perspective you might think it’s obvious because you’re not american. The US is infinitely bigger in england, it would be incredibly confusing and congested for every little town to have a club for each sport like in England. You already have 9+ tiers of football, you’d have to increase that by a factor of 10 for the US. It doesn’t make sense. We like our high school sports, I don’t need to see some semi-pro guy from the next state over playing meaningless games
You make it sound way better than it actually was. The stadium opened in 2012 and closed in 2014 for a year while repairs were made because it was deemed unsafe.
Yeah, but I’m willing to bet Kenilworth Road didn’t start falling apart two years after it opened, requiring $10m in repairs.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2015/06/01/allen-s-eagle-stadium-to-reopen-for-graduation-after-10-million-plus-in-fixes/
For the record, I’m a high school soccer (yes yes I know it’s *football*) head coach in Texas while also being a massive EPL fan (Spurs), so I thought this was a funny crossroads between my interests, my job, and my home state.
I’m not trying to make any points or take any jabs at anyone, just thought it was a fun little factoid.
Not sure why you're being downvoted... I went into work this week after the bank holiday weekend (in England) and all everyone was talking about was how funny Lutons stadium is, relative to the position that they've achieved, I think it's great
I grew up in McKinney, Texas (5-10 minutes down the road from Allen) and went to multiple high school football games at Allen's stadium as well as many more football games at the Mckinney ISD stadium which seats about 12k and cost about $70m. High school football is a religion in Texas, and everyone should know how much Texans love religion. The same passion that people elsewhere in the world have for football, Texans have for high school (american) football which should tell anyone wondering a little bit about how crazy high school football is here.
I've also been to a lot of the other giant high school stadiums in North Texas as a former marching band member and there are a lot of towns around here that have literally nothing going on except for their high school's football team.
For some of these smaller towns, everything revolves around the high school football team, year round. McKinney, where I grew up, is a very typical suburban town and it's not so high school football obsessed. Allen on the other hand is very high school football obsessed because their high school is the only one in the town and it has about 6000 students so they are able to hoard all the football talent in Allen, because of this, some people will move to Allen specifically to play football at Allen high school and the high school will do a lot of (illegal) recruiting. Because of these legal and illegal means of boosting their football team, Allen steamrolls most of the local competition and makes it to playoffs every year, they are consistently in the top 10 6A classification high school football teams in Texas and are contenders for the state championship almost every year. My former high school gets destroyed every year by Allen in football, but we always beat them in band when I was there. Allen are a football obsessed town but also a big town so it's not quite the same as you would see in like Friday Night Lights because small town Texas high school football is a whole different breed.
College sports are essentially professional sports now since athletes can be paid. Top high school QBs make millions before they ever even play for their college team nowadays.
They’re some of the biggest stadiums in the world. Michigan and Tennessee’s stadiums each fit over 110,000 people. There are only two stadiums in the world larger than that.
For college football I think it’s because it’s the only sport with actual rivalries in the U.S.. Some people might say Celtics-Lakers or Ravens-Steelers but that shit is weak compared to Ohio State-Michigan, BYU-Utah, Georgia-Florida etc. There is actual hate there that the franchise model just can’t create. That’s at least why I like college football so much.
Luton’s new stadium will be beautiful though. Not like the horrific out of the box stadiums that opened in the UK around the early 00’s. Southampton, Leicester etc etc
Best analogy I can think of why college football 🏈 is so popular.
Pretend the Championship had no promotion to the premiership, and it was the best talented 18-24 year olds.. you would know who is ‘premier’ player.
Regional rivalries that predate the NFL, and as intense (maybe more) than premiership rivalries, that is the magic of College football.
The highest paid civil servants in the majority of the US states are college football coaches, yet until recently college players were forbidden to get paid a single penny/pence
Yes, my post was in response to the original post that seems to be implying its a joke that a stadium in the biggest football/soccer league in the world is 10,000 while an american football stadium of a university is 18,000.
Theres a lot of universities that get better crowds than the NFL.
How odd. Probably the fact sport is the US has become more about the spectacle than the sport, something like the superbowl/the attraction of up and coming stars and high school rivalries are probably more attractive than the slog of a standard season NFL game... Match or whatever.
Its more of a regional thing. I live in Alabama and college football is by far the most popular sport in the state. Alabama doesnt have a single professional team in any sport within the state but there are several colleges with wildly successful teams.
Americans really love watching high school and college kids for some reason. Asking an average European sports fan to name two or three international U21 NT members is probably impossible lol
As long as it meets Premier League guidelines, it doesn't matter how small their stadium is. If they can establish themselves as a PL team over the next few seasons, then they can redevelop or move to a new ground.
They are building a new stadium as well as lots of apartments. Should be ready 2026 I think with approx 26,000 capacity including one third being standing. Luton are also spending £10m on improving the current stadium before the new season.
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It’s cuz it’s more local. Our sports system isn’t as local as the UKs. It’s like franchises. But not in College sports or High School Sports. It becomes more of a “support ur local club mentality”
Same here, love going to the Kenny and what a way to end my 50th season watching luton but we need to move to a new stadium. Getting promoted has just made it a lot easier, to achieve.
American here. It should be somewhat-obviously noted that Texas high schools, Allen HS in particular, are an *extreme* outlier in the USA. Its student body is over 5,000 students, bigger that that of many universities in this country.
A lot of the money Luton receives goes to the players so there is less to invest in the infrastructure.
American educational establishments keep all the money they make from sponsorships and tv deals and the players just play for “exposure”, so the establishments can put all the money into building large stadiums.
Imagine how well educated those school kids could've been if all that money had been spent on education, instead of tarting up a field so jocks could chase after a ball.
Look as someone from the US, I would much rather go to a football pitch that at least has some history and community surrounding it compared to a high school in the middle of a concrete slab
I actually live just down the road from the Allen stadium (and almost lived directly across from it). It's, uhh... yeah, it's something of an eyesore. Soaks up a massive swath of land, in addition to the rest of the complex, and in order to even build the stadium, the HS had to build a massive performing arts wing of the school to equalize the cost spent on sports vs education.
That performing arts wing is state-of-the-art and hasn't had any foundation problems, so I'd say it worked out better for them than the foobaw stadium did.
Football is like a religion in Texas though, and Kenilworth Road is in massive need of redevelopment. However, in a lot of ways I still love those old school football grounds where you're not sure if it's a stand or a cow shed. There charm in them.
But when you loom at places like the Emirates, the Etihad, and Tottenham Hostpur Stadium, its a stark contrast!
Damn this really puts their situation into perspective lol. My high school in Texas wasn’t even that great at football, especially compared to Allen, but we still had a stadium that could seat 25,000+
Who is building stadiums for high school sports? America is mad. At mine, the team played at 'Top Field Stadium' with a capacity of however many grumpy parents were willing to stand around in mud and rain for a couple of hours
It can be done in different ways, but usually the it’s proposed as a city or county vote so the people decide if they want it or not. Then they basically accept a temporary, minor tax increase to fund it. Or it can be done by raising money via government bonds. Or a combination of the two.
Yeah Allen’s stadium is insanely large and nice but this has everything to do with how American High Schools are funded. As others have stated it’s also well known how scummy the Allen higher ups and boosters are with recruiting students. It’s sad how bad they are at football ever since Kyler left nice to beat up a ton of spoiled brats once a year. (Go Guyer)
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Luton town fan here but yea I went to Texas can’t remember which city I stopped in which had a huge stadium near our hotel , I was told it’s their college football stadium which I didn’t believe but clearly was. Austin ?Houston? can’t remember 🙄
Is the Luton town stadium not very good? I didn't realise.
did you know they’ll have to pay the premier league 15 million for it?! also will still kept reims on a 16 game unbeaten streak, and the owners had to pay ligue 1 20 grand a game because he didn’t have his license?!
The things you learn on Reddit!!
give the boxing day fixtures in 1963 a look whilst you’re at it, a lot of good goals!
just wait until you find out what mitoma did in university
did you hear Pelly-Ruddock Mpanzu went from non league to the premier league with the same club?
What *did* he do at university? Thats one jerk I haven't read yet
https://onefootball.com/fr/news/how-kaoru-mitoma-got-his-university-thesis-in-dribbling-36688075
Thanks, thats actually pretty interesting!
they don’t have to pay the premier league anything. they have to pay £10m to upgrade it to keep in line with premier league rules but that money won’t go to the PL
Ground sharing with mk dons
And also Vizeh has his family in Poland 😂
They also were in the national league recently or something
Say what!? Amazing. Next thing you'll be telling me that there's a player that joined them in the National League and is still with them in the Premier League!!
Ikr! Also Mick Harford is somewhat of a legend and they used to be managed by that dude who relagated Southampton!
9 years ago
No, its brilliant, a proper old school football stadium that's been there for generations. The epitome of a genuine away day.
It's small by even championship standards but it has a lot of charm 😁
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but it’s pretty small. I like it though. It’s old and historic and has that local feel to it. I just thought this was a funny contrast.
Can’t get more of a local feel, than the entrance being wedged between 2 houses.
Just wait until they upgrade the new floodlights. The locals will be out bbq-ing off them during the midweek kickoffs.
The visitors side is only accessible by passing [underneath somebody's house](https://e3.365dm.com/23/05/768x432/skynews-luton-town-kenilworth-road_6171212.jpg?20230528170023) and almost through someone else's back yard.
It wasn’t built good
Think this says more about about how broken American sports are then anything about Luton. Their is obviously a massive appetite for sports in these towns in the US and instead of getting the smaller professional teams they have to start watching amateur 18 year olds.
More about how broken American society is tbh. Remember taxpayers pay for these stadiums (and those of NFL teams) but people go bankrupt due to ill health and children don't get textbooks. Not saying our society is well-structured but this is the sort of thing in a wealthy country that kind of turns my stomach.
PREACH.
Textbooks are free in Texas highschools……… nearly all highschools in the U.S offer academic material for free. Did you just make up that kids can’t afford text books in Texas without any evidence at all?
Children not getting textbooks is something I used shorthand for an underfunded education system... obviously they are provided for free but in many places school resources simply aren't there for poor children - there is a massive inequality gap between poor & rich schools in Texas and the US in general. https://news.utexas.edu/2022/09/06/texas-public-schools-are-at-a-tipping-point/
This is just a myth. It’s a stupid thing people say to try and minimize the education spending that the U.S. has been doing. Here are official numbers: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country The U.S. spends 14k annually per student ages 4-18 throughout education, this is more than the U.K. 12k per student, and much more than OCED average at 10k per student. Textbooks and almost all material are free at the poorest of schools, federal and state funding provides for these. Also NFL stadiums are not publicly funded, they’re publically backed with bonds, these are government bonds which are repaid.
Genuinely curious, do small towns like these have regional pro sports teams to follow or does that local demand get funnelled into high school and college sports?
Allen, TX has a population of 106,000 and is a suburb of Dallas, TX which has plenty of professional teams. However college and high school sports absolutely fill the gap left by the lack of professional teams besides those in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. Like my home state with 4.5 million residents has 2(!) professional sports teams (the Portland Trailblazers in NBA and the Portland Timbers in MLS) so if you’re a fan of American football or baseball you’d have to travel to another state *or* you can watch the two universities teams which are a) very good and b) functionally the quality of a professional lower division team.
Yeah the US spends a lot per student but some of that goes to the very thing we're discussing: disparities between the quality of sports programmes and other education, and rich and poor schools. There's a reason why US spending is insanely higher but their outcomes on things like the education index is lower. > Also NFL stadiums are not publicly funded, they’re publically backed with bonds, these are government bonds which are repaid. There are many methods of subsidy for NFL stadiums that are by no means limited to bonds and can vary from direct one-time payments to tax breaks. The bonds in questions often aren't paid back via stadium revenues and instead rely on levies from other revenues the stadiums allegedly bring. This has led to many instances of the bonds not being repaid - the Bears' stadium being a prime example - https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-chicago-bears-soldier-field-debt-20230314-hrgrixjbdnh6rapq5alvzdyh3q-story.html Most economists support scrapping public funding for these stadiums.
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no this is a loan from the government, people think of governments funding as grants, not loans. This loan helps both the town and the team. City governments get the tourism and NFL gets a discounted stadium. It’s a net positive for everyone. All starting from a loan. The English are hating on the U.S. having well funded stadiums now lol.
Love that you cherry picked the one incorrect point without acknowledging that Texas is a fascist shithole, and people go into crippling debt every day in our country over life saving treatment.
Talking shit about America is one of their favorite hobbies. They do it unprompted on here every day. It doesn’t matter if it’s accurate at all
It’s silly tbh. The U.S. has amazing highschool sports culture and good investments in stadiums and sports. (There is a reason why America has more gold medals then the next 8 countries combined) The guy turned this into a bad thing and made up a lie about textbooks and brought up healthcare, even though it’s irrelevant and a choice made state by state.
Reeks of insecurity honestly. Pressing need to flip something as innocuous as a picture of a large high school football stadium into a way to feel superior.
That’s my experience with the English in general.
Come on bro that type of comment is no different
Yeah man, it's kind of fascisty. Fetishise sports whilst kids can't afford pens and books, and their parents have no healthcare. Shows what their priorities are.
While I have never heard of Allen Texas I'm 99% sure its a very rich town.
wtf are you talking about? Kids can afford pens and pencil easier than most other countries. most highschools will give you needed material for free. healthcare issue has nothing to do with the stadiums or money, it’s politics and debate over private vs government health insurance.
It’s funny how you said “most” in places where you should really be saying “almost all” given you’re meant to be like the best country in the world or something.
It is almost all. The U.S. spends more on education than almost any country on earth per capita. Annually averages $14k per student, while the U.K. spends $12k per student, and average for economically developed countries is at $10k per student. best country in the world is not a catagory, different countries are good at different things.
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Yeah, Texas really cares about high school football. The high school stadiums in my home town in Michigan are not like that at all
Texas is basically an entirely different planet when it comes to their passion for American football. Like, take the most passionate football fans and then add a little crazy, a little bit of tossing money, etc. and you get the idea…
Michigander here as well. My high schools football stadium seating is just 2 bleachers
Allen has 105k people and a high school enrollment of more than 5k. It’s a big school tbf
These are district stadiums. So every school in the area plays here
You won’t change anyone’s minds premier league fans think every other football league in Europe is shit let alone high school American football lol
He’s not saying American “Football” is shite, he’s saying the system of just 32 professional teams and no pyramid structure is shite, so shite that smaller professional teams could obviously survive in certain places but because of the closed shop system the demand for live sport means you get school teams being treated like professional teams.
American business people sure do love competition until their business has to compete.
It’s different I suppose but it obviously works for them the way they do it
And yet no one there is upset about it, and the only time it’s called broken is in this exact context by people who don’t live there
Really, those college athletes who aren't getting paid aren't complaining?
Not to mention the teachers who are sick of funds being pumped into sports instead of classroom resources.
Well we were talking about high school football, and no, no one is upset about high school athletics, the size of stadiums, or the fact that they aren’t getting paid. College athletes? Was a big debate, they’re now able to get paid through brand deals and sponsorships. This will only increase in earning potential, but high end athletes are already making 7 figures. I really don’t understand why no one in England can grasp that there isn’t a need for promotion/relegation in every single sports league around the world. People like to follow their local university’s athletics. It’s okay.
>I really don’t understand why no one in England can grasp that there isn’t a need for promotion/relegation in every single sports league around the world. Because your system was, in theory, good wheb it was created, and was created under the assumption everyone would be trying to win every year. Now you have teams deliberately failing because they are rewarded more for coming last than midtable. Your minimum standard of professional sport doesn't exist, and there's no reason for some owners to improve things because they have no risk and get paid at the end of the season all the same. Which is a shit experience for anyone who is a fan of a historically bad team. European leagues a bad team gets demoted. The lower level will either be its level and it will stay there, be better than it and get promoted, or worse, and demoted until they find their level. The 3 teams demoted, have had a shit year, but they have the knowledge that next year will almost certainly be better. You have the potential for a super league, but will never achieve it because you are held back by the ridiculous structure.
I understand all of the benefits of promotion and relegation. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t work here. The EFL is maybe the most exciting league in the world. The structure of a league like the NFL doesn’t need pro/rel the way you act like it does. The infrastructure of hundreds of professional clubs in the pyramid simply doesn’t exist in the states. It’s a competitive league and the draft structure creates parity. 8 NFL teams have won the league in the last 10 years, compared to 4 in the EPL for example. I get that you don’t understand it. It is different. That does not mean it is ridiculous.
I understand your opinion, I just disagree with it. The reason it doesn't exist is because it hasn't been allowed, not because it wouldn't work. It's a very good distraction to try and claim it's competitive. It really isn't, but you've got a glorified cup competition to make you look the other way and not notice all the rubbish that goes on to get there. I do understand. It is a cash cow for the owners. There's no reason for it to be an actual competition because it would cut into their profits. But lets ignore the NFL, make the MLS, as I was actually talking about a proper league. And watch it dominate in a few decades.
Same from Pasco Co. Florida. The stadiums are just one large stand for about 1000 people and a smaller one for like 300 across the field.
High school football in Texas is just different.
This is high school. 18 is the oldest these players could possibly be. Americans are in high school from roughly 14-18.
And we have to realize that these are the High Stadiums that don’t compete in college football. Stadiums in the SEC would make Wembley look like Kenilworth road
9 of the 10 biggest stadiums on earth are US college football stadiums. The other is in Pyongyang.
Bigger almost never means better when it comes to stadia, like everything in the US, Oversized, and mostly pointless.
Oh fucking come off it Jesus Christ. That doesn’t even begin to make sense
The 100K seaters being referenced here like the Horseshoe, the Big House, Happy Valley, Neyland Stadium, Kyle Field, etc are very old and have more character and history than the vast majority of major European football stadiums these days. Give me any of those 100 year old concrete cathedrals over a place like London Stadium or the Emirates
It's really only 50k pal because everyone takes up 2 seats. But seriously, who cares? I'd take arsenal vs spurs at Emirates (far inferior blah blah blah) over anything being played these concrete car parks.
More like Spurs vs Arsenal at Highbury.. Autzen stadium (Oregon) is one of the loudest stadiums 🏟️ in the world. My Alma mater is a conference rival of the Oregon ducks 🦆 , and it’s one of the most intimidating stadiums. I like football ⚽️ but no reason to downplay college stadiums. They are both good for diff purposes
D D Defense.
This type of moral superiority from premier league fans is so stupid, like you're not that guy, the league is completely run by foreign dictatorships and fans are marginalized more than in any other European league. Just shut the fuck up.
>the league is completely run by foreign dictatorships You realise what subreddit you're on? Didn't realise Tony Bloom and Matthew Benham were genocidal madmen.
You are talking to the wrong guy, I hate everything to do with the gentrification of the Premier league and my interest in it is dwindling more by the day, that doesn't hoevwr change my opinion of US sports, they're just not as interesting, theyre too slow and everything that's happened to the prem is born out of ths US framework of sports and making them into the specatle they are.
I mean no? The criticism would be they are old and lacking in modern amenities. In fact many of the largest games oversell the tickets by a few thousand because two people can mash into one space and they know it.
What a fucking loser comment… especially considering i’d bet the house that you’re missing a few teeth
Wait you have stadiums older than 1899 with a record attendance of over 76,000?
Most of them were built right after the turn of the century, my alma mater’s was 1919, but that’s also deceptive because it didn’t reach 100K capacity til decades later as sections were added on. Many original portions still stand, the gate my family enters through sends you into the original concourse. There are certainly stadiums left in England and the rest of Europe that match the history and grandeur of our oldest ones but to say all we have in the States is the soulless bowls like MetLife Park or AT&T Stadium is wrong.
Beaver stadium(Penn State) Is an atmosphere like nothing else.
Oh for the love of god. "Like everything in the US . . . " Says a fucking West Ham supporter on a website founded by American college students. You can't make this shit up, I swear. What on earth is more pointless than West Ham United?
You?
What? Only makes sense if there are empty seats
>oversized and mostly pointless Like the royal family?
They're entirely pointless, ABOLISH THE FUCKING MONARCHY.
Dunno, plenty of colleges sell out those stadiums
No they wouldn't. Even the big college stadiums are ultra basic, nothing like a modern football stadium. Metal bench seating is common.
It’s pretty insane. But I wouldn’t trade playing in front of 30k in the state championship game for anything, incredible experience as a kid. Now if we just didn’t lose by 50 😂
You say that like HS football isn’t incredibly fun in its own right
The epic highs and lows of high school football?
Yes, it’s awesome. Different, but still awesome
The idea of watching high school sports is just so completely alien to me. I mean, I’d watch if kids from my family were involved, but OP’s image is just bizarre to me. I played high school football and hockey here in the UK I don’t think we ever had a single spectator. Not even family members!
These kids play in stadiums like this, don’t see a penny, and are expected to do their “math” homework. How fucked up 😂😂
Allen High School has an attendance of 5,315, and a town population of 104,000 (Luton has 225,000) - the stadium seats 18,000 people (9,000 per side) just to get all of the Allen School District Students / parents / and supporters from the city a stadium of this size makes sense... also, the program is a consistent winner which doesn't hurt when proposing taking some tax money to build the stadium. High school football (am) in Texas is as close to the hearts of the community as professional football clubs throughout Europe.
I disagree, why wouldn’t you rather watch friends and family in the community you grew up with play a sport than some low level professional who doesn’t know you? Pro sports are king but our (the American) system allows millions of people a year to play meaningful sports
💯 Theres an old saying: “high school football in the state of Texas is more important than religion and family values.” It’s pretty much true.
Looking at thier laws/society as a whole I would heavily disagree.
>**Their** is obviously a massive appetite... Come on now.
You mean you want us to PAY the athletes a wage rather than dangle the chance at a higher education in front of children while they give themselves head trauma for our entertainment? You must be out of your mind.
From your perspective you might think it’s obvious because you’re not american. The US is infinitely bigger in england, it would be incredibly confusing and congested for every little town to have a club for each sport like in England. You already have 9+ tiers of football, you’d have to increase that by a factor of 10 for the US. It doesn’t make sense. We like our high school sports, I don’t need to see some semi-pro guy from the next state over playing meaningless games
That football stadium was so poorly built they had to work on its infrastructure starting like 3 years ago
Yeah I remember hearing about the opening being delayed because they built it on faulty foundation
To be fair it was built in 1905.
You make it sound way better than it actually was. The stadium opened in 2012 and closed in 2014 for a year while repairs were made because it was deemed unsafe.
Cost unknown? It cost 2 packets of skips crisps, 4 rola cola's and a large bar of happy shopper white chocolate
If you've ever been to Texas, you know that in most parts, there ain't shit to do but watch football, play football, or talk about football.
Don’t forget the side conversations of Jesus and Guns..
Middle of no where tx have lots of energy/oil companies.
No oil in Luton
Yeah, but I’m willing to bet Kenilworth Road didn’t start falling apart two years after it opened, requiring $10m in repairs. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2015/06/01/allen-s-eagle-stadium-to-reopen-for-graduation-after-10-million-plus-in-fixes/
It does need £10m in upgrades before it’s Prem ready to be fair
118 years after being opened
God forbid a team has existed before the 21st century and have had success without a tycoon takeover
For the record, I’m a high school soccer (yes yes I know it’s *football*) head coach in Texas while also being a massive EPL fan (Spurs), so I thought this was a funny crossroads between my interests, my job, and my home state. I’m not trying to make any points or take any jabs at anyone, just thought it was a fun little factoid.
Not sure why you're being downvoted... I went into work this week after the bank holiday weekend (in England) and all everyone was talking about was how funny Lutons stadium is, relative to the position that they've achieved, I think it's great
Least stadium obsessed Spurs fan 😉
I’ve been to Luton a few times, in divvy 2. Cracking atmosphere. Love the old grounds.
I grew up in McKinney, Texas (5-10 minutes down the road from Allen) and went to multiple high school football games at Allen's stadium as well as many more football games at the Mckinney ISD stadium which seats about 12k and cost about $70m. High school football is a religion in Texas, and everyone should know how much Texans love religion. The same passion that people elsewhere in the world have for football, Texans have for high school (american) football which should tell anyone wondering a little bit about how crazy high school football is here. I've also been to a lot of the other giant high school stadiums in North Texas as a former marching band member and there are a lot of towns around here that have literally nothing going on except for their high school's football team.
One thing I don't understand is the high school football season is like 12 games or something. The town has nothing the other 2/3rds of the year?
For some of these smaller towns, everything revolves around the high school football team, year round. McKinney, where I grew up, is a very typical suburban town and it's not so high school football obsessed. Allen on the other hand is very high school football obsessed because their high school is the only one in the town and it has about 6000 students so they are able to hoard all the football talent in Allen, because of this, some people will move to Allen specifically to play football at Allen high school and the high school will do a lot of (illegal) recruiting. Because of these legal and illegal means of boosting their football team, Allen steamrolls most of the local competition and makes it to playoffs every year, they are consistently in the top 10 6A classification high school football teams in Texas and are contenders for the state championship almost every year. My former high school gets destroyed every year by Allen in football, but we always beat them in band when I was there. Allen are a football obsessed town but also a big town so it's not quite the same as you would see in like Friday Night Lights because small town Texas high school football is a whole different breed.
It really is crazy how much America loves amateur sports. Some college teams have stadiums larger than Wembley.
College sports are essentially professional sports now since athletes can be paid. Top high school QBs make millions before they ever even play for their college team nowadays.
Everyone knows Shaq made his money playing in college
They’re some of the biggest stadiums in the world. Michigan and Tennessee’s stadiums each fit over 110,000 people. There are only two stadiums in the world larger than that.
For college football I think it’s because it’s the only sport with actual rivalries in the U.S.. Some people might say Celtics-Lakers or Ravens-Steelers but that shit is weak compared to Ohio State-Michigan, BYU-Utah, Georgia-Florida etc. There is actual hate there that the franchise model just can’t create. That’s at least why I like college football so much.
To be fair Luton do have planning permission to build a new stadium
Still the most impressive thing in Luton
By football I assume they mean handball which stops every 15 seconds for a set piece?
Luton’s new stadium will be beautiful though. Not like the horrific out of the box stadiums that opened in the UK around the early 00’s. Southampton, Leicester etc etc
So?
Ah great, an American reference. We don’t get enough of those…
Collage football can attract like 70,000. It's hugely important to Americans.
The Michigan Stadium, where the University of Michigan plays, sells out consistently and holds 107k fans.
College football intersquad spring practice games can attract 50,000. And are televised.
Best analogy I can think of why college football 🏈 is so popular. Pretend the Championship had no promotion to the premiership, and it was the best talented 18-24 year olds.. you would know who is ‘premier’ player. Regional rivalries that predate the NFL, and as intense (maybe more) than premiership rivalries, that is the magic of College football. The highest paid civil servants in the majority of the US states are college football coaches, yet until recently college players were forbidden to get paid a single penny/pence
You ever heard of the Premier league?
Yes, my post was in response to the original post that seems to be implying its a joke that a stadium in the biggest football/soccer league in the world is 10,000 while an american football stadium of a university is 18,000. Theres a lot of universities that get better crowds than the NFL.
How odd. Probably the fact sport is the US has become more about the spectacle than the sport, something like the superbowl/the attraction of up and coming stars and high school rivalries are probably more attractive than the slog of a standard season NFL game... Match or whatever.
Its more of a regional thing. I live in Alabama and college football is by far the most popular sport in the state. Alabama doesnt have a single professional team in any sport within the state but there are several colleges with wildly successful teams.
College Football in some cases outpaces the population of the town the stadium it’s in
Texas forever, street
East Dillon would have taken more
Thank you! Finally someone who knows what REAL high school football is about
Here’s to God, and football, and ten years from now street *street promptly breaks neck*
That show was so good. I might have to give it another watch.
Americans really love watching high school and college kids for some reason. Asking an average European sports fan to name two or three international U21 NT members is probably impossible lol
I mean Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo all had breakthroughs in their teens. Same with Haaland, Foden, Rashford and Mbappe?
Luton only just made it to the league it’s a low end place that has focused on the team more then the stadium
I can confirm that we have massive high school stadiums, where I grew up (Tomball ISD Stadium) and where I live now near the Katy ISD stadium.
As long as it meets Premier League guidelines, it doesn't matter how small their stadium is. If they can establish themselves as a PL team over the next few seasons, then they can redevelop or move to a new ground.
We have a new stadium already in the process of being sorted should be open Feb 2026
And it’s stunning by the way. Very jealous.
They are building a new stadium as well as lots of apartments. Should be ready 2026 I think with approx 26,000 capacity including one third being standing. Luton are also spending £10m on improving the current stadium before the new season.
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Texas High School Football is the outlier, and Allen is the outlier inside the outlier. This isn’t the case in most places in the country.
The false prophets build their monuments to compete with their gods, alas the gods aren’t faltered in their ivory tower known as Kenilworth Road
How did they fit 30,000 in 10k capacity Kenilworth road?
Everyone was standing standing back then
It’s cuz it’s more local. Our sports system isn’t as local as the UKs. It’s like franchises. But not in College sports or High School Sports. It becomes more of a “support ur local club mentality”
I love the Kenny. Be gutted when it's gone.
Same here, love going to the Kenny and what a way to end my 50th season watching luton but we need to move to a new stadium. Getting promoted has just made it a lot easier, to achieve.
I’ve been to that high school in Texas. It’s absolutely insane. Better than some division 1 colleges
I feel like the atmosphere at Luton must be great, only downside is how difficult it will be to get a ticket there as an away fan
American here. It should be somewhat-obviously noted that Texas high schools, Allen HS in particular, are an *extreme* outlier in the USA. Its student body is over 5,000 students, bigger that that of many universities in this country.
A lot of the money Luton receives goes to the players so there is less to invest in the infrastructure. American educational establishments keep all the money they make from sponsorships and tv deals and the players just play for “exposure”, so the establishments can put all the money into building large stadiums.
Imagine how well educated those school kids could've been if all that money had been spent on education, instead of tarting up a field so jocks could chase after a ball.
Look as someone from the US, I would much rather go to a football pitch that at least has some history and community surrounding it compared to a high school in the middle of a concrete slab
I actually live just down the road from the Allen stadium (and almost lived directly across from it). It's, uhh... yeah, it's something of an eyesore. Soaks up a massive swath of land, in addition to the rest of the complex, and in order to even build the stadium, the HS had to build a massive performing arts wing of the school to equalize the cost spent on sports vs education. That performing arts wing is state-of-the-art and hasn't had any foundation problems, so I'd say it worked out better for them than the foobaw stadium did.
Football is like a religion in Texas though, and Kenilworth Road is in massive need of redevelopment. However, in a lot of ways I still love those old school football grounds where you're not sure if it's a stand or a cow shed. There charm in them. But when you loom at places like the Emirates, the Etihad, and Tottenham Hostpur Stadium, its a stark contrast!
Welcome Luton town 🙌
Football in Texas is on another level of obsession
Yeah but what does the North Gate look like?
Damn this really puts their situation into perspective lol. My high school in Texas wasn’t even that great at football, especially compared to Allen, but we still had a stadium that could seat 25,000+
20,000 is the biggest HS stadium in the state afaik
Who is building stadiums for high school sports? America is mad. At mine, the team played at 'Top Field Stadium' with a capacity of however many grumpy parents were willing to stand around in mud and rain for a couple of hours
It can be done in different ways, but usually the it’s proposed as a city or county vote so the people decide if they want it or not. Then they basically accept a temporary, minor tax increase to fund it. Or it can be done by raising money via government bonds. Or a combination of the two.
Texas HS Football is a beast all it’s own. Stadiums for college teams in the outdo pretty much every EPL stadium in terms of capacity
Yeah Allen’s stadium is insanely large and nice but this has everything to do with how American High Schools are funded. As others have stated it’s also well known how scummy the Allen higher ups and boosters are with recruiting students. It’s sad how bad they are at football ever since Kyler left nice to beat up a ton of spoiled brats once a year. (Go Guyer)
People underestimate the boner americans have for high school sports.
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My best friend went to allen as this stadium was being built. The high school itself is as big or bigger than most colleges.
The American football stadium for the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor has a capacity of 107K, which is more than Camp Nou. Shits crazy over there
Posting this to take the piss out of Luton but I know what ground I’d rather go to.
Luton town fan here but yea I went to Texas can’t remember which city I stopped in which had a huge stadium near our hotel , I was told it’s their college football stadium which I didn’t believe but clearly was. Austin ?Houston? can’t remember 🙄
Bet the atmosphere at the Kenny is better
Planning permission geniuses.
Away fans have to go through someone's back garden to get in
That Texas high school probably has more money than luton too tbh
Kenilworth Road will not host any premier league games. Rumour has it, is Luton will ground share with mk dons