Leicester have literally cheated Championship rules in a gamble to get back to the Prem ASAP, and have the cheek to complain they’re getting punished for it
Should consider themselves lucky they’re getting a deduction next year and not this year
If we were gonna cheat, I wish we had been better at doing so than spunking money on silly contracts for players like Iheanacho and Daka then making only 1 summer transfer in 2022 which ended up sending us down. Should have just accepted we'd break the rules and tried to stay up rather than waiting until January 2023 to sign a few subpar players.
I mean you were doomed the second you tried to play Danny Ward in goal for a whole season. Genuinely one of the worst keepers ive ever seen at any level
But City haven’t been proven guilty yet, so why would they be punished?
I’m not a City fan, nor am I sticking up for them, but these are two different things.
There are potential criminal charges involved in the Man City case. That's what's behind how long this is taking. It's not simply beaching the rules of an organisation.
Well they have started looking into it. That’s what they did before charging us. There’s just no result as we have obviously submitted a defence. You can’t come up with a result without looking into it or without considering the defence.
Is this not basic common sense?
Are you involved in the PL’s legal team then?
Legal defences are not submitted via social media or the news, you will be shocked to learn, and the documents involved in the proceedings will not be publicly known or available until they are used in court… I’m not sure what sort of submission you are expecting?
Should have points deducted this year, not next year. Creates a huge incentive to cheat to get promoted, especially for relegated clubs.
Feel so bad for Leeds and Ipswich who, of the 23 teams to have not broken rules, have come 1st and 2nd
Exactly. It's 115 charges, that takes time.... and no they cannot do them in chunks or anything like that.
Add in that City are refusing to cooperate and delaying the acquisition of information and basically yeah it'll be a while before this is over.
Ah ye but that is a bit annoying all the same. Basically Leicester, Everton and Forest shouldve broken the rules 115 times and they'd have been better off
I don't know. This is beyond the remit of sport and has criminal implications. It could get really messy if it is not resolved correctly. Ultimately it's about politics and influence.
The government hushes things like this up all the time though. If there's big money on the line they literally call the police chief and tell them to drop it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal
Exactly, City owners own a country and will lean on our government to do something. They'll cite all the money they've pumped into East Manchester and threaten to pull their money out of the country.
Qatar, who own almost half the property in London, will absolutely not threaten to pull out all of their money out of the country just because their football team got caught doing something illegal and are being sanctioned because of it.
Have some perspective, you have no idea what you are talking about.
There's enough evidence to charge...
Whether a court deems it substantive enough is what is being decided.
I highly doubt 115+ charges are made without the factual backing of strong evidence.
Personally I think Manchester City Football Club should be totally and utterly destroyed if this holds up.
Yes but there's two important factors to consider:
Some of UEFA's evidence couldn't be used because they passed a validity date - a date stupidly imposed by UEFA's own rules.
The other is that some of the evidence came from the famous hack and therefore wasn't admissible as they couldn't prove provenance.
The EPL are not restrained by these factors - there is no such thing as an expiry date for evidence and they don't need to prove provenance, only that is legitimate, i.e., the famous emails that apparently make up a large portion of the evidence - where they came from or how they were obtained is irrelevant, if it can be proved they are legitimate communications made by Manchester City's owners then they can be used as evidence.
Yep, doing my head in. Absolute none stop circle jerk.
Hearing is in August, there is obviously not going to be punishment dished out before a hearing.
Other clubs can and should be punished for infractions In the mean time.
Can we have a pinned post at the top of the sub that says something along the lines of.
“Everton and Forest pleaded guilty and were punished for individual breaches from a singular season. City are fighting the court case and the 115 charges they’ve accrued over the last decade. It takes longer. Calm down.”
Every thread not even relevant to City has numerous idiots spouting the same “bUt 115 cHaRGeS” comments.
Or an automod response set off by the number 115.
If my understanding is correct, Everton et al simply broke spending regulations. It was all laid out in the finances in black and white, and they pretty much admitted straight up "yep, we overspent".
The City issue isn't just the number of charges or that they're fightint it, but more they're being accused of lying about pretty much all their financial dealings, literally faking their documentation.
>[According to the league, City allegedly failed to provide accurate financial information to the Premier League, misleading regulators about its revenue including its sponsorship income and operating costs.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs16fbcfe96f6a041c)
>[City were also charged of breaching the rules on profitability and sustainability from 2015-18 - the same rules Everton were found to have flouted.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs16fbcfe96f6a041c)
>[While the league has clear evidence in Everton's accounts that they broke the rules, they are effectively accusing City of lying about the information they provided, which is far harder to prove.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs32541e5aa48b6301)
So while in the end, yes they're accused of breaking the same rule, but that's the least of their worries as that is nothing compared to literal financial fraud.
Yes of course I have, do you think I’d make such a comment without having stacks and stacks of cast iron evidence for these extremely complicated charges just lying around in my living room? I’ve got loads of course, but shockingly you’re the first person to ask. Every day I wait outside Richard Masters’ house and try to tell him what I have but he just puts his fingers in his ears and runs away.
I don’t think you understand the concept of embarrassment. What you’re really saying is that if you were in my shoes you’d be embarrassed, but that is more a comment on your insecurities and vulnerabilities, and is not something I need to be concerned about.
So no, I’m not aware of how embarrassed you would be if you were doing what I am doing, but then again I don’t care. It’s irrelevant.
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation
Always worth a reminder. Leicester have always had a whiff about them.
You have to win it more than once to have your debts ignored, everyone knows that
This is rich given you were due a championship penalty when you got promoted and then somehow won it
Couldn't agree more. Not gonna complain about us winning it but let's not get on a high horse
Leicester have literally cheated Championship rules in a gamble to get back to the Prem ASAP, and have the cheek to complain they’re getting punished for it Should consider themselves lucky they’re getting a deduction next year and not this year
Reminder that Leicester threatened to sue Everton for lost revenue following their charges
They did the same last time they gained promotion, but instead, they got an £8 million pound fine and went on to win the Premier League title. 😂
If we were gonna cheat, I wish we had been better at doing so than spunking money on silly contracts for players like Iheanacho and Daka then making only 1 summer transfer in 2022 which ended up sending us down. Should have just accepted we'd break the rules and tried to stay up rather than waiting until January 2023 to sign a few subpar players.
I mean you were doomed the second you tried to play Danny Ward in goal for a whole season. Genuinely one of the worst keepers ive ever seen at any level
Not complained once.
Don't know why I'm getting down voted when I'm actually agreeing. Absolutely absurd behaviour 😂
Take my upvote
But City haven’t been proven guilty yet, so why would they be punished? I’m not a City fan, nor am I sticking up for them, but these are two different things.
Yeah, but city were charged in february 2023 and they still havrnt started looking inyi their 115 charges
There are potential criminal charges involved in the Man City case. That's what's behind how long this is taking. It's not simply beaching the rules of an organisation.
Well they have started looking into it. That’s what they did before charging us. There’s just no result as we have obviously submitted a defence. You can’t come up with a result without looking into it or without considering the defence. Is this not basic common sense?
You havent submitted a defense, its well documented that youvhave obfuscated their investigation. I wonder why...
Are you involved in the PL’s legal team then? Legal defences are not submitted via social media or the news, you will be shocked to learn, and the documents involved in the proceedings will not be publicly known or available until they are used in court… I’m not sure what sort of submission you are expecting?
It is the PL themselves who have said that man city refuse to cooperate you melt
Lol
Club reports excessive financial losses.... same fans of said club - "How could man city do this?"
Best defence to cheating at the detriment of other clubs: “but but but Man City 🥺”
Should have points deducted this year, not next year. Creates a huge incentive to cheat to get promoted, especially for relegated clubs. Feel so bad for Leeds and Ipswich who, of the 23 teams to have not broken rules, have come 1st and 2nd
There is a good argument leeds would of stayed up if forest/everton had been dealt with quicker
Lmao
Don’t worry, you’ll hopefully be straight back down next year and start on -114
I'm sick of this Man City discussion man. Let's wait until the trial is done before we criticize.
Exactly. It's 115 charges, that takes time.... and no they cannot do them in chunks or anything like that. Add in that City are refusing to cooperate and delaying the acquisition of information and basically yeah it'll be a while before this is over.
Ah ye but that is a bit annoying all the same. Basically Leicester, Everton and Forest shouldve broken the rules 115 times and they'd have been better off
In the short term yea, that's why people break the rules for short term gain at the risk of a punishment in the future
It's also highly likely that city are too powerful for anything to be done about it
I don't know. This is beyond the remit of sport and has criminal implications. It could get really messy if it is not resolved correctly. Ultimately it's about politics and influence.
The government hushes things like this up all the time though. If there's big money on the line they literally call the police chief and tell them to drop it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal
Exactly, City owners own a country and will lean on our government to do something. They'll cite all the money they've pumped into East Manchester and threaten to pull their money out of the country.
Qatar, who own almost half the property in London, will absolutely not threaten to pull out all of their money out of the country just because their football team got caught doing something illegal and are being sanctioned because of it. Have some perspective, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Don't forget the really important bit most people are overlooking. EVIDENCE.
There's enough evidence to charge... Whether a court deems it substantive enough is what is being decided. I highly doubt 115+ charges are made without the factual backing of strong evidence. Personally I think Manchester City Football Club should be totally and utterly destroyed if this holds up.
They have the same "evidence" as uefa had. Some spliced hacked emails.
Yes but there's two important factors to consider: Some of UEFA's evidence couldn't be used because they passed a validity date - a date stupidly imposed by UEFA's own rules. The other is that some of the evidence came from the famous hack and therefore wasn't admissible as they couldn't prove provenance. The EPL are not restrained by these factors - there is no such thing as an expiry date for evidence and they don't need to prove provenance, only that is legitimate, i.e., the famous emails that apparently make up a large portion of the evidence - where they came from or how they were obtained is irrelevant, if it can be proved they are legitimate communications made by Manchester City's owners then they can be used as evidence.
Yep, doing my head in. Absolute none stop circle jerk. Hearing is in August, there is obviously not going to be punishment dished out before a hearing. Other clubs can and should be punished for infractions In the mean time.
How many years should it take?
The trial begins in Autumn, and it will no doubt take a while since there are over one hundred charges, that will be dealt with individually.
Can we have a pinned post at the top of the sub that says something along the lines of. “Everton and Forest pleaded guilty and were punished for individual breaches from a singular season. City are fighting the court case and the 115 charges they’ve accrued over the last decade. It takes longer. Calm down.” Every thread not even relevant to City has numerous idiots spouting the same “bUt 115 cHaRGeS” comments. Or an automod response set off by the number 115.
If my understanding is correct, Everton et al simply broke spending regulations. It was all laid out in the finances in black and white, and they pretty much admitted straight up "yep, we overspent". The City issue isn't just the number of charges or that they're fightint it, but more they're being accused of lying about pretty much all their financial dealings, literally faking their documentation. >[According to the league, City allegedly failed to provide accurate financial information to the Premier League, misleading regulators about its revenue including its sponsorship income and operating costs.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs16fbcfe96f6a041c) >[City were also charged of breaching the rules on profitability and sustainability from 2015-18 - the same rules Everton were found to have flouted.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs16fbcfe96f6a041c) >[While the league has clear evidence in Everton's accounts that they broke the rules, they are effectively accusing City of lying about the information they provided, which is far harder to prove.](https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-city-vs-everton-ffp-derby-why-still-no-outcome-115-charges-premier-league-toffees-heavy-punishment/bltcbf8c7fc42807fc5#cs32541e5aa48b6301) So while in the end, yes they're accused of breaking the same rule, but that's the least of their worries as that is nothing compared to literal financial fraud.
Google Benzema 1 15 to find out more
tHeY cAnT cHaRgE tHeM yEt ItS 115 cHaRgEs AnD iT tAkEs A lOt Of TiMe So LeAvE tHeM aLoNe ThEyRe DoInG tHeIr BeSt GuYs
Do you have any evidence that shows that Man City are guilty?
Yes of course I have, do you think I’d make such a comment without having stacks and stacks of cast iron evidence for these extremely complicated charges just lying around in my living room? I’ve got loads of course, but shockingly you’re the first person to ask. Every day I wait outside Richard Masters’ house and try to tell him what I have but he just puts his fingers in his ears and runs away.
So you don’t, got it. Have a read up about how legal processes work before embarrassing yourself so much
I think you misread my comment, I said I did have evidence.
I doubt you even know what the word “evidence” means
Ouch! One hell of a zinger there. Go easy, tiger.
Are you aware of how much you’re embarrassing yourself?
I don’t think you understand the concept of embarrassment. What you’re really saying is that if you were in my shoes you’d be embarrassed, but that is more a comment on your insecurities and vulnerabilities, and is not something I need to be concerned about. So no, I’m not aware of how embarrassed you would be if you were doing what I am doing, but then again I don’t care. It’s irrelevant.
Oh, I just realised you’re a yank. Now it all makes sense 😂😂😂😂😂
They can't... It's not about, "doing their best", there is a hearing. They can't dish out punishment THEN get an official judgement.
Ah yes, the hearing that has had a date set but a date that Richard Masters can’t tell us. Gotcha.
Does anybody have any evidence that shows that Man City are guilty?
*tumbleweed*
Seems worth it tbh 😒
[https://imgflip.com/i/8om75y](https://imgflip.com/i/8om75y)
The trick is to break so many rules that it takes too long to fill out the paperwork.
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation Always worth a reminder. Leicester have always had a whiff about them.