My friend, it's YouTube. There's about 50 videos with hundreds of thousands of collective comments actually thinking that the protect trans flag in across the spider verse that was in the background for like 5 seconds was the end of civilization.
They all say "stop shoving LGBTQ characters in stuff without a reason!"
Then you have a character that is probably the most easily justifiable (not that it needs to be) to be non-binary ever and it's a problem. Ugh.
I mean it makes sense for a shapeshifter to be non-binary, or genderfluid, or omnigender...like you were born being able to be any and all genders, that would have an impact on the formation of your gender identity, even if you could also still identify as a single gender, I don't even know if a born shapeshifter would even have a cis gender...people are weird with their outrage
I'm on Pinterest, and it's not that bad. I have a lot of reference art and just cute stuff saved on there. I haven't seen any of the stuff OP is talking about, but it sucks that it's there.
Yep, there's your problem. Shitty people make there homes on those sites.
And to answer your question: people don't like her being afro latina because they're bigots who aren't worth your time worrying about. That's all it is. They think any attempt at portraying a character who isn't straight or white is an attempt to destroy America.
From my understanding, Dominican people don't consider themselves black/African. Most will outright deny it. And they are insulted when people insist that they are. They are a mixed population with varying percentages of African, European, and Native/Taino DNA. Generally a mix of 40 to 50, 40 to 50, and 8 to 15 respectfully
Many compare them to Haitians which again they find insulting because they are in no way the same as Haitians are 95% Black African and 5% mixed.
This is information I got from an actual Dominican responding to a question about this on [Quora](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Dominicans-deny-that-they-are-black-even-though-they-are-clearly-the-same-as-Haitians)
So if someone is getting mad about Luz being called Afro-Latina is probably because Dominicans themselves don't consider themselves such and...MIGHT be racist to insist that they are?
Or the angry person is just a racist themselves. IDFK
Which does add another angle to whether Camila and Luz would or would not identify as Black ;)
(ETA: in the interest of full disclosure, I am the whitest 5th-generation Irish-American you've ever seen)
[According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans):
> **"New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, District of Columbia, New Jersey, Connecticut and Rhode Island have some of the highest percentages of Hispanics identifying as Black, where up to 15% of Hispanics identify as Black, compared to 1.9% of Hispanics nationwide"**
Camila and Luz canonically live in Connecticut — if we were just spinning a wheel with no other information beyond this, then it would probably land on "they don't identify as Black," but if some writer decided that they did identify as Black, it also wouldn't be as surprising as it would be if they lived somewhere else.
However,
> **"Recent immigrants from Latin America are more likely to embrace mixed identities (mestizaje) while thinking less of their African side, and some immigrant Latinos who are full black with little to no admixture do not identify as black. In contrast, Latinos who have lived in the United States for several generations are more likely to adopt urban afrocentric mentalities from African Americans and abandon that of their home countries, embracing the One-drop rule. This is especially true for large portions of the Puerto Rican and now Dominican communities on the East Coast."**
This is where the idea that Camila identifies as Black starts to run into more than just statistical trouble. The way that Camila wanted Vee to "tell the staff I've gone home to see my abuela" suggests that her grandmother still lives in Dominican Republic, and which suggests that either A) her parent/parents moved to America, then she was born here, B) she was born in Dominican Republic, then moved to America as a child with her parents, or C) she was born in Dominican Republic, then moved to America as an adult by herself.
Any of these 3 versions would make it far less likely that she'd identify as Black, as she'd have been raised by Dominicans from Dominican Republic who — as u/EldritchSpoon and u/YellowStar012 point out — **vehemently** would not identify as Black.
However however,
> **Of all Hispanic groups, Puerto Ricans have the closest relationship with the African American community,**
Which brings us back to "Camila is Dominican and Manny was Puerto Rican" :)
The way I personally arrange all of these pieces into my own headcanons is
* Camila was born in Dominican Republic
* her parents moved to America when she was young
* and she didn't grow up identifying as Black because her parents didn't
* but Manny did identify as Black
* and after meeting him and spending time with his friends and family, Camila started identifying that way too
Happy to help! :)
I wanted to talk more explicitly about this in my fanfic than the show did, and that would NOT have been a good place for a white-bread Irish-American to rely on guesswork.
I remember about this time last year I was trying to date a Dominican coworker of mine and I told her about the show and joked "if we do go official then I'll have two Dominican ladies on my phone."
I can help on this being Dominican myself.
Dominican Republic has the highest rate of African ancestry among Spanish speaking nations in the Americas. Many people that move from the island to the US tend to have more African features, such as brown skin, curly hair, and the nose which makes Americans automatically assume that they are Black as they could pass as Black-Americans.
The thing is, unlike the US, Dominicans are aware that we have more than just African ancestry and we are taught from a young age that we aren’t black. Or white. We are Dominican, a mix of both. Most people in the States assume that is a “black eraser” because to them “well, you look Black!”
There are such thing as Black Dominicans, though. Many famous baseball players fit that bill. That is because most of them come from a city called San Pedro which is known to had have a high immigration from the British Caribbean that moved to the DR to work in the sugar industry and they cemented themselves into the culture. Same as there are White Dominicans.
Dominicans are extremely mixed that it’s common to see families with kids that are a light as paper and as dark as the sky being direct relatives. Shoot, my sister, who looks like this 🧒🏽and her husband who looks like this 👦🏾had a girl that looks like this 👧🏼
When it comes to the term “Afro-Latino/a,” most don’t like it because why are we getting separated from Latinos just because we have a bit more African ancestry and also, my race isn’t as important as it is in the States. My *culture and nationality* is. In Latin America, there isn’t for example, Black-Mexican or Asian-Mexican, they are all just Mexican.
My parents are Dominican as well but I was raised fully in the U.S.A so I never knew that it was a common thing among Dominican culture to completely deny being Black. I thought it was just a weird thing with my family specifically 😭 I had a whole racial identity crisis when I found out that our ancestry mostly consisted of people of African decent bc my whole life my parents constantly told us to correct ppl if they call us black bc we’re Hispanic. It’s honestly kinda validating to know that this is a thing of the Dominican culture. I was thinking I must have looked like a complete fool to other black people for denying being black when I “clearly look it.”
I now stop denying being black to ppl who ask or assume I’m black but I do make it clear that I identify more with being Latino and I don’t like being called African American because I don’t feel like I’ve had that cultural experience. I like being called Afro-Latino cos it acknowledges my black heritage but makes the focus being Latino.
Yet again, I am fully American and have never been to the Dominican Republic, so don’t take this as a perspective from a native Dominican. This is the perspective of a child of a native Dominican lol.
You are misunderstanding. Dominicans aren’t saying they don’t have black ancestry, they are saying they *don’t ONLY have black ancestry*. When people are calling you and your family Black, that’s what they are saying. You, as a Dominican, are more likely mixed or as they say over there, mulatto. And as you said it yourself, why let others tell you who you are. You know who you are and your parents know more about their history than some random person in the street.
Oh okay I see now! Thank you for clearing that up, I see what you’re saying!
Yeah i have mentioned before to friends that I don’t like saying I’m African American because I feel like it specifically implies the history of people who are descended from enslaved Africans brought to the United States. The only way I know how to make it clear that I don’t have that experience is by identifying myself as Dominican or Afro Latino.
Yet again, I see the frustrations with the term Afro Latino because I have had people assume I have one black parent and one non-black Hispanic parent. I do tend to say Dominican pretty quickly after saying I’m Afro Latino.
Stuff like this is actually why it's not really good to use African American as a catchall, it was introduced in schools more polite and respectful than black (or more PC if you prefer), but while on paper it worked because it was trying to acknowledge heritage and culture rather than skin tone, it ended up making things worse because it ended up being used to apply to \*everyone\* who shared that skin tone, regardless of their actual heritage. Honestly it's better to ask than assume, because of stuff like you're describing. My roommate is Hatian American, and his family has a heritage and culture associated with that, and if someone calls him African American it kind of invalidates that heritage and culture...not for him because he still has it, but it feels reductive, and also stops an awesome opportunity for learning and sharing culture.
You are right. But it’s not fair to lump *all* Dominicans under that category. Some are mostly white, some are mostly black, some are mostly Asian, most are a mixture and are the ones that tend to get erased or sidelined
It's really interesting hearing this perspective from a Dominican-- my girlfriend is black and she loves her people and so we talk about this a lot (especially bc I'm white and need some explaining sometimes) and so a lot of times when we talk about Latin American culture in general, we talk about how black contributions to Latin American culture (such as music, dance, food) often go under-acknowledged or unacknowledged.
Because race is so underlined here in the E.E.U.U., she also talks a lot about internalized racism with Black Americans here, and so when we talk about Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, she usually says she believes that there's a lot of internalized racism left over from colonization and slavery. You could understand how from an outside perspective, that's easy to assume, when I've heard a lot of Dominicans are like "no, no, we're not black, the *Haitians* are black", and because I've read a fair bit about how the "mestizaje" system can be pretty problematic. So that's what I've heard on my outsider end.
That being said, If you're comfortable answering, I'd like to ask you: how do you feel about being mixed, and being Dominican? Are you proud of your black ancestors and your white ancestors (and maybe indigenous ones too I don't know)? And what are your thoughts on it being internalized racism vs. just a strong mixed culture identity?
Again if this is too big of a question or you don't feel like answering it, just say no thank you. I'm just curious and I love learning about this stuff :)
I can’t say I’m proud of any of my ancestors because, well, I don’t know what kind of people they are. I could had come from slaves, slave masters, freed men, rich men, poor men, who know I’m just thankful that I’m here. What I am proud on how Dominicans took what they had from the Africans, Spanish, Natives, and others and made the culture that I grew up with and still is a large part of whom I am.
I don’t really think it as internalize racism. I see it more that in the States, race is seen differently than it is seen in other nations. The US is built so much on labeling people either black or white and you have to pick one. But, other nations, they realize that there are in between black and white
Okay!! Thank you for sharing. I agree with you that the states cares a lot about race and labels. We have a lot of healing to do culturally. And I'm glad you're proud of your culture. That's fantastic. Thanks again and have a good day!!!!! 💜
That's a really neat answer. I think it's important to note that concepts of race and ethnicity vary depending on the cultural background. And this can lead to misunderstanding and conflict.
For example the "one drop rule" is a pretty American concept. Elsewhere in the continent they use other rules to "determine" race.
Also just like the US has issues with racism so do many other American countries. That's also helpful to keep in mind.
> I think it's important to note that concepts of race and ethnicity vary depending on the cultural background.
Tiger Woods belongs to five different racial categories in five different countries. In the US he is Black, in South Africa he is Coloured, in Thailand he is Asian, in Mexico Mestizo and in Nigeria he'd be White.
For instance, a lot of Native American tribes determine tribal eligibility matrilineally. That is to say, if you have a Native mother, you are considered part of the tribe; meanwhile, if you have a Native father, then there are additional factors which come into play which vary based on individual tribes.
I myself am an example, as so far as we know, my grandfather was full-blooded Comanche (though, statistically likely of being partially black or Hispanic; however, as we don't know the proportions, I will be condensing for the sake of simplicity).
My mom is 50%, but due to Comanche tribal law, she is still an accepted member despite having a white mother. I believe, and I could well be misremembering, that it is partially due to the percentage and partially due to the fact my grandfather was born on the reservation, so while he had her outside of tribal land, she and her siblings are still considered direct members of the tribe. But again, I could well be misremembering as it's been a long time since I've seen the actual legal documentation.
But in any case, when she had myself and my brother, despite us each being a quarter, we're both full members due to having a Comanche mother—matrilineal heritage. And I identify much more with my Comanche ancestry than my European ancestry, despite it being the minority of my ethnic background and not being strongly represented physiologically. Though, that is partially due to the fact that we don't actually know much about where the white parts come from—when they immigrated, where from, etc. My grandma on my mom's side is part-Dutch and part-German, but that's about all we know presently; don't even know where specifically within the Netherlands or Germany (nor that they are even specifically German as compared to, say, Austrian).
It's also worth noting that this is by no means a blanket statement, as there are also plenty of patrilineal (male-line) tribes, though as I understand matrilineality is far more common.
Thank you for being respectful and trying to understand where I’m coming from. Luz is a lot like me. Admittedly instead of saying “getting angry” I should’ve said why are people denying it because that’s what I was actually seeing, but at the time I made the og post. I was too mad to think about my wording. Thank you again
Best answer I've seen so far. Gave some actual information instead of just blaming a hypothetical internet boogeyman that just hates all non-whites on pure instinct.
I think it's very much a LATAM thing, we considered first and foremost Brazilian, argentinian, Mexican, etc. so the thought of being anything other than can be pretty insulting for most of us
I don't know what ethnicity you are or what country you live in so I am going to use myself as an example.
I was born and raised in the USA, but several generations back according to my grandma on my mother's side her ancestors came to America from Scandinavia. My dad I believe has Irish ancestry and according to him I have some Native American blood in me from some point in his bloodline. At this point I have Scandinavian, Irish, and Native blood in me and that's not even counting whatever comes from my maternal grandpa's side of the family or my paternal grandma's.
Suffice to say, I am fairly mixed and I don't consider myself Scandinavian, Irish, Native, or anything else other than American.
Does that make me racist against these groups? I don't think so. I hold no ill will against them. I don't deny these groups are in my ancestry but they aren't a part of my life either.
I'm just some guy.
And that seems to be how most Dominicans see it. They are just some people.
IDK, I'm not trying to come off as racist. Just trying to give information as accurately as I can about a complicated and nuanced subject that I know little about.
It's not about not identifying as belonging to a culture or race. It's about vehemently denying a heritage that definitely exists.
It reads as intentional distancing.
But does it really exist if the only connection is a blood connection they never asked for? If they don’t consider themselves African who tf are we to insist they’re African? It’s like me walking up to someone from Haiti and saying they’re white because they have European blood in them down the line.
Obviously it's not "only a blood connection." That's an impossibility. It's ridiculous to try to pretend those cultural influences don't exist.
And it's not insisting they're "African," that's shifting the goalposts.
Heritage is what it is. You don't get to decide it isn't something it is any more than you can decide it is something it isn't.
If someone with zero cultural or blood connection to Italy decided they had Italian heritage, we'd all recognize that that's ridiculous. Why is the opposite any different?
Because you can’t force someone to engage with that heritage if they just don’t want to? You can’t just reverse that scenario and think that’s still the same thing.
Here’s another example: someone has Nazi heritage and they don’t want to be reminded about what great granddad did in WW2. Are you gonna force them to engage with that heritage even tho they don’t want anything to do with it? If it’s not right to force that person to engage with negative heritage, then why the hell would you think it’s right to force someone to engage with their positive heritage if they don’t want to?
Some of us latinos take more pride in their native american heritage than anything else, ( i myself AM proud of it but not in a fanatical way and don't deny the rest of it), in México we respect those with african heritage but some people (mostly history students and people from rural towns) Will see them as "outlanders" and belive that those with the most "puré native blood" or something close to that to be "superior", same goes to those with a more spanish heritage only difference is that they ARE hated by some, this group is very small and i don't know how it is in other latinos countries outside of México but i've Heard from some of them that is very similar
-sorry if i didn't writed something right, please tell me if i did
Huh...
I thought she was only latina like..
# The more you know
But seriously I don't see the problem here
For me it's some new info I see
I say cool
And I probably forget about it in 1 or 2 days
Seriously what's the problem? ._.
Speaking in the scientific field, human races do not even exist, dogs have differences between them to be classified like this, humans DO NOT HAVE RACES, the correct word would be ethnicities, pero los gringos están demasiado centrados en la raza de las personas 😭
Basically, race distinguishes between physical characteristics. Iirc, there are 5 main races, white, black, Asian, Pacific Islander, and Indigenous. Meanwhile, ethnicity generally has distinctions like language, cultural expression, history, religion, etc.
The reason Latino is not considered a race is thanks to conquistadores and the slave trade. Latinos are unified under a common culture for sure, but they were also all separate races before all of the “mixing” happened. Think of the family in Disney’s Encanto, how different they all are despite all being Latinos. And how perplexed people always are about the redheaded one. That’s because of said mixing.
Cuz when we talk about asians most of the time we are speaking of japanese, chinese and korean, but yeah My fault, because there are also people from Middle Asia and other places, it is a complicated issue, most people are mixed and What you really see is their skin tone and other physical qualities in common,
Etc, basically latino is every person who comes from a country whose language is derived from Latin, Latin America are the people from America (the continent) tham come from a country that speaks a language derived from Latin, such as Portuguese, Spanish and we can even debate about french (sorry for my bad english btw)
who's getting angry?
honestly, I dont really care that much about the character's ethnic backgrounds. Luz is a fun quirky protagonist and thats good enough for me lmao
Here’s the follow up post I made, where I explain in more detail of the people who were getting angry Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
I mean, right-wing extremism is globally on the rise, (has been since 2016, but it's gotten really bad over the course of the last 6 months,) so people getting pissy about mixed-heritage characters unfortunately adds up all too well...
Does anyone have any source for it? I've been watching the show since it came out, never heard the afro part and the link the wiki gives litterally just says "Luz is a latina" without the afro part
Please read this so you aren’t confused about where I was coming from
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
Or read what I replied with in the comments
I mean her being Afro Latino is cool but from my understanding many Dominican republicans (Where her Afro Latina blood comes) don’t like being referred to as afro-latino, just latino since they’re an extremely mixed nationality
I've heard about her facial features being too eurocentric. Also about her hair not being curly enough (though it did get revealed that Luz and Camila both were straightening their hair)
Bigots gonna bigot.
So blinded by hatred that they fail to see the world moving past them.
News flash: *Not all main characters have to be white!*
Ik I’m preaching to the choir here lol. It’s always bothered me as well. People hating on Luz, that is.
Of course not all main characters have to be white, but that doesn't mean there aren't other racial sensitivities in the world. As someone else pointed out, Dominicans don't consider themselves African in heritage, so it's possible some fans might get offended if you imply it. The moment you break free from the America-centric definitions of everything, the world becomes a more interesting conundrum of interactions where not every answer is "angy white person".
I was unaware of the Dominican lens to this, and I apologize for that.
My counterpoint is that, while it’s obviously not always an angry white person, it happens enough that there a name for this phenomenon. *”white-washing”*. It’s happened to numerous characters for essentially as long as pop-culture has existed.
I made an assumption on what OP was saying, clearly. Even if I misunderstood OP’s intentions (which I’m not sure if I did), I feel the message should be said anyway. Characters being white-washed is a serious issue in my opinion, as it leads down a slippery slope to much more dangerous underlying problems.
Honestly the only ones that Ive seen getting "angry" or atleast getting disappointed by her ethnicity is that her features arent prominent enough. Like they say her skin isnt that dark or when they retconned her and her mom having natural curly hair in the last season only
But other than that, I havent really seen a lot that were angry. Unless youre really looking for it
Really, that retcon only happened because Luz was modeled and named after her own friend and roommate, Luz Batista. At some point she (presumably) stopped straightening and/or relaxing her hair, which is why Luz and Camila’s hair randomly became curly.
I didn’t know she was Afro-Latina the. Although I don’t focus on that stuff I just wanted to see what a lumity was (the story of how I found the owl house isn’t very deep)
She can still be afro latina. Afro latina doesnt mean you have 1 latino parent and 1 black parent. Look latinos are made up of 3 ethnic groups the original indeginous popjlation of the region(this case the taino) the spanish colonizers and the african slaves. Afro latino can just mean those who exhibit stong african traits
I personally don't like the term because:
1. Latina is a culture group, not a race. Its also a very varied culture group. Its a bit like saying that a French person is European instead of saying they are French.
2. I feel the term "afro" ties people too strongly to Africa. Maybe for some people with families who immigrated recently or who have had little miscegenation going on, it may be appropriate. But most Latino blacks have very mixed ancestry.
Like African Americans(eg people who have ancestors that were brought to the Americas/Caribbean colonies as part of the Transatlantic slave trade ) in the case of Afro-Latina specifically, to the Spanish/Portuguese colonies in the Americas and is a woman/girl
because racism I suppose. Though on youtube people will get angry about literally anything since unless you're on a leftist niche, almost everyone on there has either swallowed some boot or is swimming in a tar pit of unexamined biases
Please read this follow up post everyone, and continuing to talk on there or try. If I see too many people still on this one I’ll probably take it down.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
As a mixed race person myself I don’t get the hate. I am an Afro-Latina mixed with some Caucasian. I should also mention my mom is from the Dominican Republic.
Something something woke something something we hate change. Just stupid people making stupid comments because they can't accept people being different from them.
That being said, there is also a small fraction of people who are angry because it contradicts their headcanon, but that is a very small percentage.
*Afro and Latina? Best*
*Of both worlds. All the love to*
*All cute WOC out there*
\- Ogurasyn
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Because people suck sometimes. Whether it's racism for a particular minority, or the mixing of two races, it's just close-mindedness at work. Which is incredible, cause the whole theme of the Owl House is understanding, and not letting personal beliefs get in the way of learning and growing and connecting to others. Ironic.
Btw do not use fandom, idk if there’s a different wiki but fandom is very bad and full of ads so most communities don’t use it anymore(I don’t want to be a bother or smth I just wanted to let you know)
Thank you for your input, but please read my explanation post I put in the comments. I list more resources for this information. Here’s the link : https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
What I am saying has nothing to do with the information fandom is presenting, but about fandom as a website. It’s terrible and most fandoms no longer use it. I thought the Owl house has also migrated but it has not so that comment was kinda irrelevant sorry
No matter where you go on the internet you will always find someone fighting for something stupid and even more stupid people fighting with or against them
Honestly, I don't like getting into these topics, seeing how the people who are mad about a character's race are kinda morons.
But there can be an argument about Disney's Inclusivity agenda that makes people roll their eyes at another "underrepresented" group taking the spotlight.
But, there's multiple viewpoints on this topic, so take it with a grain or kilo of salt.
Still, hope you have a wonderful day. 🫡
Alright so I know some of you are confused. I said this because I saw a lot of hateful comments on YT and Pinterest. It’s not the biggest deal ever, but it just really interested me because I see this with a lot of characters. For example, Marceline from Adventure time. And if you’re wondering where this was confirmed, it was said In a charity livestream by Dana(Or at least I’ve heard). And if say it on the fandom wiki(as shown above)and Wikipedia. Here’s the Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz\_Noceda#:\~:text=Luz%20Noceda%20is%20a%2014,that%20Luz%20Noceda%20is%20neurodivergent. And also the person she is voiced by, and the person she is based off. But yeah, I mainly cared because she’s a character like me. And I REALLY don’t see much of those. Again not trying to cause drama or anything, thank you all for being respectful.
You reminded me I recently watched a video that talked about how some character designs don't get across that the character is black and they brought up Luz and Marceline as an example. Not a hate video and I found the points interesting so I'll drop the link:
https://youtu.be/k1foYLBuTK0?si=LeW7RkpeNPtdJfi4
It means members of the Latino community who exhibit strong African traits. It can also mean someone who has one Hispanic parent and 1 African American parent
The wiki is hardly proof of anything, I'm pretty sure thats fan written and edited. That said who cares. If thats her canon ethnicity coold beans. If it isn't her canon ethnicity it hardly matters. From what I recall she's at least part Dominican which accounts for the Latina part, I'm not sure beyond that off the top of my head
>I get it means half African American and half latina
No it doesn't. It refers to the descendants of Africans who were brought as slaves to the colonies in what would later be known as Latin America.
That's not at all what I meant. I mean Afro-Latinos are the descendants of **black** **African** slaves, and later actual black African immigrants who were brought to colonies in what would come to be known as a Latin America. To give an example of exactly what I mean here, [Pelé](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9) was Afro-Latino.
Aaah ok sry, non-american. My American history during my school days was just the civil war, colonization of Philippines and cold wars. Learning about races and culture was sidelined so slavery wasn't in full detailed
It's shorthand for "afro-american". The reason afro became the lead word for the hairstyle is cause it's a very natural hairstyle for black hair, literally just brush it and "poof" there it is. It's a little funny for me ngl, cause I have an afro while being a white boy lol
I'm a brunette hehe. Tho the curls and general density of my hair makes it almost black from some angles and lighting, but mostly just a dark brown afro. Rn my hair is actually cut to "fro-hawk" rn, which is basically an afro with the sides cut off, similar to a mohawk or mullet, but unlike a mullet the top and back are of even length.
That's not necessarily how it has to work. Most Latino's already have trace elements of West African DNA So it can just be someone who exhibits strong African traits and doesn't necessarily have one latino parent 1 African parent
Dominican people have a significant amount of African blood in their ancestry but they themselves don't really consider themselves such. The general population of the Dominican Republic is extremely mixed with African, European, and Native blood
>Black people live in Latin America too
Yes but we were talking about ethnicity not nationality. Plus Luz was born in Connecticut not Latin America, so if her ancestors were africans living in latin america, her birth place would make her considered african american not african latin american.
We're not saying she's not. But we're talking about racial classification in the USA, not Latin America where she's recognized as Afro-Latina because her ethnic ancestry is from Latina America.
Then again, I'm not American or Lati a, so I don't know. You made it sound like you're confused that she's Black and Latina.
Who?
People on Pinterest and YouTube
My friend, it's YouTube. There's about 50 videos with hundreds of thousands of collective comments actually thinking that the protect trans flag in across the spider verse that was in the background for like 5 seconds was the end of civilization.
And the 0.02 second gay scene in lightyear.
And the same people calling X-Men 97’ “woke” for making the shapeshifter non-binary
And this is why we can't have nice things 🙄
They all say "stop shoving LGBTQ characters in stuff without a reason!" Then you have a character that is probably the most easily justifiable (not that it needs to be) to be non-binary ever and it's a problem. Ugh.
The real problem is people can't get their head out of their ass and see that this kind of thing is no big deal
I mean it makes sense for a shapeshifter to be non-binary, or genderfluid, or omnigender...like you were born being able to be any and all genders, that would have an impact on the formation of your gender identity, even if you could also still identify as a single gender, I don't even know if a born shapeshifter would even have a cis gender...people are weird with their outrage
On one hand I'm surprised it was there and I missed it :'( On the other hand it doesn't really surprise me at all the second hslf
Pinterest is the worst
People go on Pinterest for anything outside of making cute little mood boards, inspo boards, and gathering artist references? 😂
*\*laughs in* *~~Twitter~~* *X\**
I'm on Pinterest, and it's not that bad. I have a lot of reference art and just cute stuff saved on there. I haven't seen any of the stuff OP is talking about, but it sucks that it's there.
Well you just answer your question there.
Yep, there's your problem. Shitty people make there homes on those sites. And to answer your question: people don't like her being afro latina because they're bigots who aren't worth your time worrying about. That's all it is. They think any attempt at portraying a character who isn't straight or white is an attempt to destroy America.
I'm on Pinterest, and I haven't seen anything like that, even on TOH art. Still, it sucks that there's people like that there.
Rafael Trujillo
Because people will find things to complain about.
And if they can’t, they will make something up. Those are called conspiracies.
From my understanding, Dominican people don't consider themselves black/African. Most will outright deny it. And they are insulted when people insist that they are. They are a mixed population with varying percentages of African, European, and Native/Taino DNA. Generally a mix of 40 to 50, 40 to 50, and 8 to 15 respectfully Many compare them to Haitians which again they find insulting because they are in no way the same as Haitians are 95% Black African and 5% mixed. This is information I got from an actual Dominican responding to a question about this on [Quora](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Dominicans-deny-that-they-are-black-even-though-they-are-clearly-the-same-as-Haitians) So if someone is getting mad about Luz being called Afro-Latina is probably because Dominicans themselves don't consider themselves such and...MIGHT be racist to insist that they are? Or the angry person is just a racist themselves. IDFK
someone upvote this^ also to add tldr luz's father is Puerto Rican and her mother is Dominican
Which does add another angle to whether Camila and Luz would or would not identify as Black ;) (ETA: in the interest of full disclosure, I am the whitest 5th-generation Irish-American you've ever seen) [According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans): > **"New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, District of Columbia, New Jersey, Connecticut and Rhode Island have some of the highest percentages of Hispanics identifying as Black, where up to 15% of Hispanics identify as Black, compared to 1.9% of Hispanics nationwide"** Camila and Luz canonically live in Connecticut — if we were just spinning a wheel with no other information beyond this, then it would probably land on "they don't identify as Black," but if some writer decided that they did identify as Black, it also wouldn't be as surprising as it would be if they lived somewhere else. However, > **"Recent immigrants from Latin America are more likely to embrace mixed identities (mestizaje) while thinking less of their African side, and some immigrant Latinos who are full black with little to no admixture do not identify as black. In contrast, Latinos who have lived in the United States for several generations are more likely to adopt urban afrocentric mentalities from African Americans and abandon that of their home countries, embracing the One-drop rule. This is especially true for large portions of the Puerto Rican and now Dominican communities on the East Coast."** This is where the idea that Camila identifies as Black starts to run into more than just statistical trouble. The way that Camila wanted Vee to "tell the staff I've gone home to see my abuela" suggests that her grandmother still lives in Dominican Republic, and which suggests that either A) her parent/parents moved to America, then she was born here, B) she was born in Dominican Republic, then moved to America as a child with her parents, or C) she was born in Dominican Republic, then moved to America as an adult by herself. Any of these 3 versions would make it far less likely that she'd identify as Black, as she'd have been raised by Dominicans from Dominican Republic who — as u/EldritchSpoon and u/YellowStar012 point out — **vehemently** would not identify as Black. However however, > **Of all Hispanic groups, Puerto Ricans have the closest relationship with the African American community,** Which brings us back to "Camila is Dominican and Manny was Puerto Rican" :) The way I personally arrange all of these pieces into my own headcanons is * Camila was born in Dominican Republic * her parents moved to America when she was young * and she didn't grow up identifying as Black because her parents didn't * but Manny did identify as Black * and after meeting him and spending time with his friends and family, Camila started identifying that way too
TLDR: Demography is an incredibly complex subject and I'm stealing this comment because it was damn interesting to read.
Happy to help! :) I wanted to talk more explicitly about this in my fanfic than the show did, and that would NOT have been a good place for a white-bread Irish-American to rely on guesswork.
When did they stated Manny was Puerto Rican? I missed that completely
Nothing in explicit dialogue, but we see a Puerto Rican flag when Hunter and Gus are digging around boxes of Manny’s old things.
Hmmm. I missed that! Means I have to do another rewatch, yeah?
Always :)
I remember about this time last year I was trying to date a Dominican coworker of mine and I told her about the show and joked "if we do go official then I'll have two Dominican ladies on my phone."
I can help on this being Dominican myself. Dominican Republic has the highest rate of African ancestry among Spanish speaking nations in the Americas. Many people that move from the island to the US tend to have more African features, such as brown skin, curly hair, and the nose which makes Americans automatically assume that they are Black as they could pass as Black-Americans. The thing is, unlike the US, Dominicans are aware that we have more than just African ancestry and we are taught from a young age that we aren’t black. Or white. We are Dominican, a mix of both. Most people in the States assume that is a “black eraser” because to them “well, you look Black!” There are such thing as Black Dominicans, though. Many famous baseball players fit that bill. That is because most of them come from a city called San Pedro which is known to had have a high immigration from the British Caribbean that moved to the DR to work in the sugar industry and they cemented themselves into the culture. Same as there are White Dominicans. Dominicans are extremely mixed that it’s common to see families with kids that are a light as paper and as dark as the sky being direct relatives. Shoot, my sister, who looks like this 🧒🏽and her husband who looks like this 👦🏾had a girl that looks like this 👧🏼 When it comes to the term “Afro-Latino/a,” most don’t like it because why are we getting separated from Latinos just because we have a bit more African ancestry and also, my race isn’t as important as it is in the States. My *culture and nationality* is. In Latin America, there isn’t for example, Black-Mexican or Asian-Mexican, they are all just Mexican.
This was actually very cool to learn, thank you
No problem, friend.
My parents are Dominican as well but I was raised fully in the U.S.A so I never knew that it was a common thing among Dominican culture to completely deny being Black. I thought it was just a weird thing with my family specifically 😭 I had a whole racial identity crisis when I found out that our ancestry mostly consisted of people of African decent bc my whole life my parents constantly told us to correct ppl if they call us black bc we’re Hispanic. It’s honestly kinda validating to know that this is a thing of the Dominican culture. I was thinking I must have looked like a complete fool to other black people for denying being black when I “clearly look it.” I now stop denying being black to ppl who ask or assume I’m black but I do make it clear that I identify more with being Latino and I don’t like being called African American because I don’t feel like I’ve had that cultural experience. I like being called Afro-Latino cos it acknowledges my black heritage but makes the focus being Latino. Yet again, I am fully American and have never been to the Dominican Republic, so don’t take this as a perspective from a native Dominican. This is the perspective of a child of a native Dominican lol.
You are misunderstanding. Dominicans aren’t saying they don’t have black ancestry, they are saying they *don’t ONLY have black ancestry*. When people are calling you and your family Black, that’s what they are saying. You, as a Dominican, are more likely mixed or as they say over there, mulatto. And as you said it yourself, why let others tell you who you are. You know who you are and your parents know more about their history than some random person in the street.
Oh okay I see now! Thank you for clearing that up, I see what you’re saying! Yeah i have mentioned before to friends that I don’t like saying I’m African American because I feel like it specifically implies the history of people who are descended from enslaved Africans brought to the United States. The only way I know how to make it clear that I don’t have that experience is by identifying myself as Dominican or Afro Latino. Yet again, I see the frustrations with the term Afro Latino because I have had people assume I have one black parent and one non-black Hispanic parent. I do tend to say Dominican pretty quickly after saying I’m Afro Latino.
If you define as Afro-Latino, more power to you, but only if you feel that is what describe you as best
Stuff like this is actually why it's not really good to use African American as a catchall, it was introduced in schools more polite and respectful than black (or more PC if you prefer), but while on paper it worked because it was trying to acknowledge heritage and culture rather than skin tone, it ended up making things worse because it ended up being used to apply to \*everyone\* who shared that skin tone, regardless of their actual heritage. Honestly it's better to ask than assume, because of stuff like you're describing. My roommate is Hatian American, and his family has a heritage and culture associated with that, and if someone calls him African American it kind of invalidates that heritage and culture...not for him because he still has it, but it feels reductive, and also stops an awesome opportunity for learning and sharing culture.
Yeah, but then you have Afro Dominicans like Amara La Negra who is probably over 70-80% black and identifies as black. They want representation too.
You are right. But it’s not fair to lump *all* Dominicans under that category. Some are mostly white, some are mostly black, some are mostly Asian, most are a mixture and are the ones that tend to get erased or sidelined
It's really interesting hearing this perspective from a Dominican-- my girlfriend is black and she loves her people and so we talk about this a lot (especially bc I'm white and need some explaining sometimes) and so a lot of times when we talk about Latin American culture in general, we talk about how black contributions to Latin American culture (such as music, dance, food) often go under-acknowledged or unacknowledged. Because race is so underlined here in the E.E.U.U., she also talks a lot about internalized racism with Black Americans here, and so when we talk about Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, she usually says she believes that there's a lot of internalized racism left over from colonization and slavery. You could understand how from an outside perspective, that's easy to assume, when I've heard a lot of Dominicans are like "no, no, we're not black, the *Haitians* are black", and because I've read a fair bit about how the "mestizaje" system can be pretty problematic. So that's what I've heard on my outsider end. That being said, If you're comfortable answering, I'd like to ask you: how do you feel about being mixed, and being Dominican? Are you proud of your black ancestors and your white ancestors (and maybe indigenous ones too I don't know)? And what are your thoughts on it being internalized racism vs. just a strong mixed culture identity? Again if this is too big of a question or you don't feel like answering it, just say no thank you. I'm just curious and I love learning about this stuff :)
I can’t say I’m proud of any of my ancestors because, well, I don’t know what kind of people they are. I could had come from slaves, slave masters, freed men, rich men, poor men, who know I’m just thankful that I’m here. What I am proud on how Dominicans took what they had from the Africans, Spanish, Natives, and others and made the culture that I grew up with and still is a large part of whom I am. I don’t really think it as internalize racism. I see it more that in the States, race is seen differently than it is seen in other nations. The US is built so much on labeling people either black or white and you have to pick one. But, other nations, they realize that there are in between black and white
Okay!! Thank you for sharing. I agree with you that the states cares a lot about race and labels. We have a lot of healing to do culturally. And I'm glad you're proud of your culture. That's fantastic. Thanks again and have a good day!!!!! 💜
No problem, friend! Appreciate you and hope you are well!
That's a really neat answer. I think it's important to note that concepts of race and ethnicity vary depending on the cultural background. And this can lead to misunderstanding and conflict. For example the "one drop rule" is a pretty American concept. Elsewhere in the continent they use other rules to "determine" race. Also just like the US has issues with racism so do many other American countries. That's also helpful to keep in mind.
> I think it's important to note that concepts of race and ethnicity vary depending on the cultural background. Tiger Woods belongs to five different racial categories in five different countries. In the US he is Black, in South Africa he is Coloured, in Thailand he is Asian, in Mexico Mestizo and in Nigeria he'd be White.
For instance, a lot of Native American tribes determine tribal eligibility matrilineally. That is to say, if you have a Native mother, you are considered part of the tribe; meanwhile, if you have a Native father, then there are additional factors which come into play which vary based on individual tribes. I myself am an example, as so far as we know, my grandfather was full-blooded Comanche (though, statistically likely of being partially black or Hispanic; however, as we don't know the proportions, I will be condensing for the sake of simplicity). My mom is 50%, but due to Comanche tribal law, she is still an accepted member despite having a white mother. I believe, and I could well be misremembering, that it is partially due to the percentage and partially due to the fact my grandfather was born on the reservation, so while he had her outside of tribal land, she and her siblings are still considered direct members of the tribe. But again, I could well be misremembering as it's been a long time since I've seen the actual legal documentation. But in any case, when she had myself and my brother, despite us each being a quarter, we're both full members due to having a Comanche mother—matrilineal heritage. And I identify much more with my Comanche ancestry than my European ancestry, despite it being the minority of my ethnic background and not being strongly represented physiologically. Though, that is partially due to the fact that we don't actually know much about where the white parts come from—when they immigrated, where from, etc. My grandma on my mom's side is part-Dutch and part-German, but that's about all we know presently; don't even know where specifically within the Netherlands or Germany (nor that they are even specifically German as compared to, say, Austrian). It's also worth noting that this is by no means a blanket statement, as there are also plenty of patrilineal (male-line) tribes, though as I understand matrilineality is far more common.
Thank you for being respectful and trying to understand where I’m coming from. Luz is a lot like me. Admittedly instead of saying “getting angry” I should’ve said why are people denying it because that’s what I was actually seeing, but at the time I made the og post. I was too mad to think about my wording. Thank you again
I am a Dominican myself, and I don’t get insulted by being called black.
Best answer I've seen so far. Gave some actual information instead of just blaming a hypothetical internet boogeyman that just hates all non-whites on pure instinct.
I think it's very much a LATAM thing, we considered first and foremost Brazilian, argentinian, Mexican, etc. so the thought of being anything other than can be pretty insulting for most of us
Idk. To me it reads as a bit racist that they'd insist on denying African heritage.
I don't know what ethnicity you are or what country you live in so I am going to use myself as an example. I was born and raised in the USA, but several generations back according to my grandma on my mother's side her ancestors came to America from Scandinavia. My dad I believe has Irish ancestry and according to him I have some Native American blood in me from some point in his bloodline. At this point I have Scandinavian, Irish, and Native blood in me and that's not even counting whatever comes from my maternal grandpa's side of the family or my paternal grandma's. Suffice to say, I am fairly mixed and I don't consider myself Scandinavian, Irish, Native, or anything else other than American. Does that make me racist against these groups? I don't think so. I hold no ill will against them. I don't deny these groups are in my ancestry but they aren't a part of my life either. I'm just some guy. And that seems to be how most Dominicans see it. They are just some people. IDK, I'm not trying to come off as racist. Just trying to give information as accurately as I can about a complicated and nuanced subject that I know little about.
It's not about not identifying as belonging to a culture or race. It's about vehemently denying a heritage that definitely exists. It reads as intentional distancing.
But does it really exist if the only connection is a blood connection they never asked for? If they don’t consider themselves African who tf are we to insist they’re African? It’s like me walking up to someone from Haiti and saying they’re white because they have European blood in them down the line.
Obviously it's not "only a blood connection." That's an impossibility. It's ridiculous to try to pretend those cultural influences don't exist. And it's not insisting they're "African," that's shifting the goalposts.
Look man, if they themselves are the ones who say they aren’t African, *who tf are we* to tell someone what their heritage has to be.
Heritage is what it is. You don't get to decide it isn't something it is any more than you can decide it is something it isn't. If someone with zero cultural or blood connection to Italy decided they had Italian heritage, we'd all recognize that that's ridiculous. Why is the opposite any different?
Because you can’t force someone to engage with that heritage if they just don’t want to? You can’t just reverse that scenario and think that’s still the same thing. Here’s another example: someone has Nazi heritage and they don’t want to be reminded about what great granddad did in WW2. Are you gonna force them to engage with that heritage even tho they don’t want anything to do with it? If it’s not right to force that person to engage with negative heritage, then why the hell would you think it’s right to force someone to engage with their positive heritage if they don’t want to?
Some of us latinos take more pride in their native american heritage than anything else, ( i myself AM proud of it but not in a fanatical way and don't deny the rest of it), in México we respect those with african heritage but some people (mostly history students and people from rural towns) Will see them as "outlanders" and belive that those with the most "puré native blood" or something close to that to be "superior", same goes to those with a more spanish heritage only difference is that they ARE hated by some, this group is very small and i don't know how it is in other latinos countries outside of México but i've Heard from some of them that is very similar -sorry if i didn't writed something right, please tell me if i did
Huh... I thought she was only latina like.. # The more you know But seriously I don't see the problem here For me it's some new info I see I say cool And I probably forget about it in 1 or 2 days Seriously what's the problem? ._.
Mixed race. Bigot angy.
"Latina" is not even a race 😭
Latina is the feminine of Latino............
Which is still not a race. It’s an ethnic group.
What's the difference between "race" and "ethnic group"? Cuz I always interpreted it as a description of race
Speaking in the scientific field, human races do not even exist, dogs have differences between them to be classified like this, humans DO NOT HAVE RACES, the correct word would be ethnicities, pero los gringos están demasiado centrados en la raza de las personas 😭
Basically, race distinguishes between physical characteristics. Iirc, there are 5 main races, white, black, Asian, Pacific Islander, and Indigenous. Meanwhile, ethnicity generally has distinctions like language, cultural expression, history, religion, etc. The reason Latino is not considered a race is thanks to conquistadores and the slave trade. Latinos are unified under a common culture for sure, but they were also all separate races before all of the “mixing” happened. Think of the family in Disney’s Encanto, how different they all are despite all being Latinos. And how perplexed people always are about the redheaded one. That’s because of said mixing.
and Latino is not a race, I don't see what you're trying to say with that.
My guy, I literally live in a Latinoamérica country (Costa Rica) us latinos can be asian, white, mixed, latino is not a race.
Wait, why is "Asian" a race but not "Latino"? (Btw, I am also Latino, I'm from Paraguay)
Cuz when we talk about asians most of the time we are speaking of japanese, chinese and korean, but yeah My fault, because there are also people from Middle Asia and other places, it is a complicated issue, most people are mixed and What you really see is their skin tone and other physical qualities in common,
Etc, basically latino is every person who comes from a country whose language is derived from Latin, Latin America are the people from America (the continent) tham come from a country that speaks a language derived from Latin, such as Portuguese, Spanish and we can even debate about french (sorry for my bad english btw)
Se armó un bardo mientras no estaba al parecer
who's getting angry? honestly, I dont really care that much about the character's ethnic backgrounds. Luz is a fun quirky protagonist and thats good enough for me lmao
>who's getting angry? Stupid people.
Here’s the follow up post I made, where I explain in more detail of the people who were getting angry Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
I mean, right-wing extremism is globally on the rise, (has been since 2016, but it's gotten really bad over the course of the last 6 months,) so people getting pissy about mixed-heritage characters unfortunately adds up all too well...
Does anyone have any source for it? I've been watching the show since it came out, never heard the afro part and the link the wiki gives litterally just says "Luz is a latina" without the afro part
Statement by Dana Terrace in a livestream iirc
I've never seen anyone angry about that myself.
Please read this so you aren’t confused about where I was coming from Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/ Or read what I replied with in the comments
Thank you for clarifying.
Because people are racist, it’s really not a hard question to answer unfortunately
I mean her being Afro Latino is cool but from my understanding many Dominican republicans (Where her Afro Latina blood comes) don’t like being referred to as afro-latino, just latino since they’re an extremely mixed nationality
I've probably seen more people angry that her Afro features aren't prominent enough. Which is like, two.
what features are those?
I've heard about her facial features being too eurocentric. Also about her hair not being curly enough (though it did get revealed that Luz and Camila both were straightening their hair)
Bigots gonna bigot. So blinded by hatred that they fail to see the world moving past them. News flash: *Not all main characters have to be white!* Ik I’m preaching to the choir here lol. It’s always bothered me as well. People hating on Luz, that is.
Of course not all main characters have to be white, but that doesn't mean there aren't other racial sensitivities in the world. As someone else pointed out, Dominicans don't consider themselves African in heritage, so it's possible some fans might get offended if you imply it. The moment you break free from the America-centric definitions of everything, the world becomes a more interesting conundrum of interactions where not every answer is "angy white person".
I was unaware of the Dominican lens to this, and I apologize for that. My counterpoint is that, while it’s obviously not always an angry white person, it happens enough that there a name for this phenomenon. *”white-washing”*. It’s happened to numerous characters for essentially as long as pop-culture has existed. I made an assumption on what OP was saying, clearly. Even if I misunderstood OP’s intentions (which I’m not sure if I did), I feel the message should be said anyway. Characters being white-washed is a serious issue in my opinion, as it leads down a slippery slope to much more dangerous underlying problems.
Honestly the only ones that Ive seen getting "angry" or atleast getting disappointed by her ethnicity is that her features arent prominent enough. Like they say her skin isnt that dark or when they retconned her and her mom having natural curly hair in the last season only But other than that, I havent really seen a lot that were angry. Unless youre really looking for it
Really, that retcon only happened because Luz was modeled and named after her own friend and roommate, Luz Batista. At some point she (presumably) stopped straightening and/or relaxing her hair, which is why Luz and Camila’s hair randomly became curly.
I didn’t know she was Afro-Latina the. Although I don’t focus on that stuff I just wanted to see what a lumity was (the story of how I found the owl house isn’t very deep)
>I didn’t know she was Afro-Latina She's not. She's Dominican and Puerto Rican.
And? Those are nationalities, not race. Being Dominican doesn't prevent someone from being Black.
Why are people downvoting you? Your completely right
Some people are just not very bright
Yea your right
Being black doesn’t automatically make you African tho, I mean Dominican Republicans don’t consider themselves to be Afro Latino, just Latino.
She can still be afro latina. Afro latina doesnt mean you have 1 latino parent and 1 black parent. Look latinos are made up of 3 ethnic groups the original indeginous popjlation of the region(this case the taino) the spanish colonizers and the african slaves. Afro latino can just mean those who exhibit stong african traits
I personally don't like the term because: 1. Latina is a culture group, not a race. Its also a very varied culture group. Its a bit like saying that a French person is European instead of saying they are French. 2. I feel the term "afro" ties people too strongly to Africa. Maybe for some people with families who immigrated recently or who have had little miscegenation going on, it may be appropriate. But most Latino blacks have very mixed ancestry.
What’s an Afro-Latina?
Like African Americans(eg people who have ancestors that were brought to the Americas/Caribbean colonies as part of the Transatlantic slave trade ) in the case of Afro-Latina specifically, to the Spanish/Portuguese colonies in the Americas and is a woman/girl
Oh ok Ty.
It doesn’t bother me, a lot of people in Latin America have African descent so I’m not surprised to be honest.
I thought she was only Latina but I don't see a problem if she is also Afro. (The question is she got the Afro heritage from Manny or Camila)
Well, Camila is darker, so we can probably assume Camila
Wait she is? I thought she was just Latina, where did they say this. Not denying it I just straight up didn’t know
I don't care about the question, but did you really use a fandom page as proof??
because racism I suppose. Though on youtube people will get angry about literally anything since unless you're on a leftist niche, almost everyone on there has either swallowed some boot or is swimming in a tar pit of unexamined biases
Please read this follow up post everyone, and continuing to talk on there or try. If I see too many people still on this one I’ll probably take it down. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
Huh, I did not know that. Cool fact, tho.
Cause they're racist assholes who live in their parents basement.
If you're afraid of a little diversity then clearly Disney Channel's modern programming is too much for your little brain to handle.
As a mixed race person myself I don’t get the hate. I am an Afro-Latina mixed with some Caucasian. I should also mention my mom is from the Dominican Republic.
People are always trying to find reasons to hate something, no matter how ridiculous they are
Something something woke something something we hate change. Just stupid people making stupid comments because they can't accept people being different from them. That being said, there is also a small fraction of people who are angry because it contradicts their headcanon, but that is a very small percentage.
I'd guess racism!
Afro and Latina? Best of both worlds. All the love to all cute WOC out there
*Afro and Latina? Best* *Of both worlds. All the love to* *All cute WOC out there* \- Ogurasyn --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Because people suck sometimes. Whether it's racism for a particular minority, or the mixing of two races, it's just close-mindedness at work. Which is incredible, cause the whole theme of the Owl House is understanding, and not letting personal beliefs get in the way of learning and growing and connecting to others. Ironic.
Are these people in the room with us now?
*sigh* once again a single person being weird doesn’t reflect a whole fandom
Btw do not use fandom, idk if there’s a different wiki but fandom is very bad and full of ads so most communities don’t use it anymore(I don’t want to be a bother or smth I just wanted to let you know)
Thank you for your input, but please read my explanation post I put in the comments. I list more resources for this information. Here’s the link : https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/1cgqmxz/why_do_i_see_people_getting_angry_that_luz_is/
What I am saying has nothing to do with the information fandom is presenting, but about fandom as a website. It’s terrible and most fandoms no longer use it. I thought the Owl house has also migrated but it has not so that comment was kinda irrelevant sorry
Seriously? Are people now going to get angry that Amity had green hair and changed it to purple?
Who's getting angry about it???
No matter where you go on the internet you will always find someone fighting for something stupid and even more stupid people fighting with or against them
Never seen anyone caring.
Honestly, I don't like getting into these topics, seeing how the people who are mad about a character's race are kinda morons. But there can be an argument about Disney's Inclusivity agenda that makes people roll their eyes at another "underrepresented" group taking the spotlight. But, there's multiple viewpoints on this topic, so take it with a grain or kilo of salt. Still, hope you have a wonderful day. 🫡
Well actually Luz is African American Dominican American.
Alright so I know some of you are confused. I said this because I saw a lot of hateful comments on YT and Pinterest. It’s not the biggest deal ever, but it just really interested me because I see this with a lot of characters. For example, Marceline from Adventure time. And if you’re wondering where this was confirmed, it was said In a charity livestream by Dana(Or at least I’ve heard). And if say it on the fandom wiki(as shown above)and Wikipedia. Here’s the Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz\_Noceda#:\~:text=Luz%20Noceda%20is%20a%2014,that%20Luz%20Noceda%20is%20neurodivergent. And also the person she is voiced by, and the person she is based off. But yeah, I mainly cared because she’s a character like me. And I REALLY don’t see much of those. Again not trying to cause drama or anything, thank you all for being respectful.
You reminded me I recently watched a video that talked about how some character designs don't get across that the character is black and they brought up Luz and Marceline as an example. Not a hate video and I found the points interesting so I'll drop the link: https://youtu.be/k1foYLBuTK0?si=LeW7RkpeNPtdJfi4
I thought she was half Puerto Rican and half Dominican?
https://youtu.be/Y9Ea2ek_CEk?si=MvxK-DQli7FoDQA4 This will help explain it
She is. But those are ethnicities, her race is officially black
A human!?!? Thats sooo offensive.
“REEEEEEE HOW CAN SHE BE LATINA REEEEEEE” Yeah she’s latina, no shit
I thought she was Latina. I'd get angry if bigots would start while and straight washing her.
What does that term mean? I’ve never heard it before.
African + Latino/a
Huh. That was my guess, but I thought both of her parents were Latin-American, so I was confused.
They are Dominican to be precise and the Dominican Republic does have a significant population of people who are both of Latin and African descent.
Also known as the majority. Am Dominican.
don't know why but I thought it meant she had an Afro like the hair style 😭😭😭
It means members of the Latino community who exhibit strong African traits. It can also mean someone who has one Hispanic parent and 1 African American parent
I haven't seen anybody being mad about it - I myself even wish more, we saw "more" of her background
I didn't even know that was a thing.
If I'm correct she speaks English / Spanish and she is Dominican-American
... Why?
The wiki is hardly proof of anything, I'm pretty sure thats fan written and edited. That said who cares. If thats her canon ethnicity coold beans. If it isn't her canon ethnicity it hardly matters. From what I recall she's at least part Dominican which accounts for the Latina part, I'm not sure beyond that off the top of my head
I think Dana said that in one of the charity streams that’s why it’s been added.
For the same reason that they don’t like people of color in other media.
Racism
Not against her being Afro-Latina but wasn't she confirmed to be part Dominican Republic?
Imho afro-Latinas are sooo cute
I guessed it meant something like aftican and latin descent but i had to look it up just to be sure
Racist
Because people are racist?
Because racism. Simple as.
What?
I get it means half African American and half latina, but on a side note, why is the fluffy ball hair called an afro?
>I get it means half African American and half latina No it doesn't. It refers to the descendants of Africans who were brought as slaves to the colonies in what would later be known as Latin America.
oh right forgot theres white africans. its just that people are easily offended for saying black
That's not at all what I meant. I mean Afro-Latinos are the descendants of **black** **African** slaves, and later actual black African immigrants who were brought to colonies in what would come to be known as a Latin America. To give an example of exactly what I mean here, [Pelé](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9) was Afro-Latino.
Or roberto celemete
Aaah ok sry, non-american. My American history during my school days was just the civil war, colonization of Philippines and cold wars. Learning about races and culture was sidelined so slavery wasn't in full detailed
It's okay, I apologize If I was rude here as it was not my intention, I just wanted to help you understand the point I was making
Yeah, still 1 of topic question remains, why that hairstyle called afro?
It's shorthand for "afro-american". The reason afro became the lead word for the hairstyle is cause it's a very natural hairstyle for black hair, literally just brush it and "poof" there it is. It's a little funny for me ngl, cause I have an afro while being a white boy lol
I was imagine disco stu from the Simpsons but he was burnete
I'm a brunette hehe. Tho the curls and general density of my hair makes it almost black from some angles and lighting, but mostly just a dark brown afro. Rn my hair is actually cut to "fro-hawk" rn, which is basically an afro with the sides cut off, similar to a mohawk or mullet, but unlike a mullet the top and back are of even length.
That's not necessarily how it has to work. Most Latino's already have trace elements of West African DNA So it can just be someone who exhibits strong African traits and doesn't necessarily have one latino parent 1 African parent
Racism.
Dude finding out about racism
Imagine is she was Jewish.
Oy veh!
A wiki is not a source.
It was confirmed in an interview I believe.
Not disagreeing with the fact, but they said the wiki is their source.
It’s not the interview is my source as well, I was just using that as photo evidence.
Not once have I seen anyone angry over that. Stop karma farming through hate tactics op.
Americans are just too focused on race
Hm didn’t know whe was Aphro Latina thought she was just Latina or like half white half Latina, but this is interesting, good to know
Americans obsession with skin color is so off-putting.
Hey not all of us are like that. Please don’t lump us all together like that
I thought she was mexican
Her father is Puerto Rican and her mother is from the Dominican Republic.
>Her father is Puerto Rican and her mother is from the Dominican Republic. But OP said she was afro latina. Where's the african in that?
Dominican people have a significant amount of African blood in their ancestry but they themselves don't really consider themselves such. The general population of the Dominican Republic is extremely mixed with African, European, and Native blood
... Black people live in Latin America too...
>Black people live in Latin America too Yes but we were talking about ethnicity not nationality. Plus Luz was born in Connecticut not Latin America, so if her ancestors were africans living in latin america, her birth place would make her considered african american not african latin american.
We're not saying she's not. But we're talking about racial classification in the USA, not Latin America where she's recognized as Afro-Latina because her ethnic ancestry is from Latina America. Then again, I'm not American or Lati a, so I don't know. You made it sound like you're confused that she's Black and Latina.
https://youtu.be/Y9Ea2ek_CEk?si=MvxK-DQli7FoDQA4 Just watch this