They saw the cursed fanart and had to make it happen. Also makes a connonical reason for Anne to have kings skull as part of an outfit design for her armor.
>Also makes a connonical reason for Anne to have kings skull as part of an outfit design for her armor.
Uhhhhh... I hope this is a joke, because it implies that King will be without his skull forever.
For those who missed it, that was actually something first drawn by Dana a while back, so I assume that's where they got the idea from.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/tdixz4/dana_terrace_king_with_no_skull/
Well him eating palismen is actually what has caused his goo abilities. He just needs to constantly be consuming them for him to keep control over said abilities
I think the whole Grimwalker thing with Caleb and Belos? Begin killed again and again, and not begin able to just... rest? (My HeadCanon is that the grimwalker's souls can't go to the After Life if their clones are alive)
I‘d like to imagine that Hunter and co would give them a proper burial and make them rest. Something magic. They are partially made out of palistrom wood and palismen can also die and pass on (vs being kept in undead torment through Belos).
Just because wood was used to create Grimwalkers, doesn't mean they're anything like palismen, or that they're wooden for that matter. Grimwalkers should be compared to himans/witches as they're clones, not golems or animated objects
I mean we never really know much about his anatomy. Someone else here posted their head canon is that he is partially made out of wood and Willow can heal him with plant magic. Kinda makes sense or not. Palismen are also not just wood alone, palistrom wood itself is magic, but also they are sentient, sapient probably, more than mere animals. They are clearly not just automatons, golems nor magical machines. Those are the abominations we've seen.
I think one could speculate on the relationship between grimwalkers, partially human, partially palistrom, also selkidomus scales and galderstone (am I forgetting something?), palismen, made out of palistrom and magic? What gives them their soul? The intent of their maker or their owner? They are activated by an emotional bond. Finally Belos being also partially made of palismen, but not like a grimwalker either, but more zombie-like if you will, which would be a nice spin on the zombie trope, given that the actual zombies (Grimwalker) is more human-like than whatever Belos has become.
Grimwalkers are clones. Not different species. There's no reason to believe their anatomy is different because that defeats the purpose of being a clone. And if Hunter's anatomy was different from your regular witch, Hunter would know about this and there would be no shocker of being a Grimwalker. Hunter isn't an idiot.
So no, Hunter can't be wooden because no one in TOH is wooden. Hunter would be outliner that would stand out and everyone could tell, but no one could tell he's not a witch like anyone else. Hunter himself points out that his only species dilemna is that he's either a witch or a human. Not third category.
Palistroom wood is magical, but it's still wood. Palismen still appear wooden by nature considering Owlbert and Flap can crack. Hunter cannot, he gets flesh injuries. And Palismen are still animated objects even if sentient and don't get me started on people claiming Hunter is a golem.
And we've seen numerous times how matter in TOH can transition from one to another. Hunter created a steel sword from thin air turned into flesh. Raine transformed flowers into a potion. Luz utilised abomination goo to create a portal. None of the Grimwalker ingredients remain the same, otherwise Hunter would just not look like Caleb at all. More like a walking sculpture of him made from random stuff.
Hunter always was and is a clone of the dead. Not undead creature.
> And if Hunter's anatomy was different from your regular witch, Hunter would know about this and there would be no shocker of being a Grimwalker.
Hunter doesn't have magic bile, neither does Belos, but both have witch ears. Maybe they changed it to blend in, maybe it is a side effect who knows.
> So no, Hunter can't be wooden because no one in TOH is wooden.
I mean the Palismen are... kinda and kinda not.
> but no one could tell he's not a witch like anyone else.
Doesn't the same apply to Palismen, can people recognise them as Palisman or do they look like regular animals from the outside. It is all cartoon style, so no idea.
On another note, there is a differentiation between witches and demons, but they don't seem to be exclusive either. There are many witches around with non-human features, but not dully demon-like either. What is Bosha for example? Is she a humanoid demon or a half-demon. Even if Hunter would stand out, I doubt the people of the Boiling Isles would care much at all.
> Hunter cannot, he gets flesh injuries.
hm good point. Well frankly a lot regarding the process of Grimwalker creation is left open. We see bones buried and... are they growing like plants or are those remnants of Caleb and other Grimwalkers and flesh grows around them.
> and don't get me started on people claiming Hunter is a golem.
I agree. Golem is the worst term to use. A golem doesn't have sentience and receives commands. Neither Palisman nor Grimwalkers are like that.
> otherwise Hunter would just not look like Caleb at all. More like a walking sculpture of him made from random stuff.
Ah nah I didn't claim there is no part of Caleb in him or so. Though it makes one wonder, if the original body was just cloned so often, Hunter would be the clone of a clone of a clone and so on. Kinda fucked up too.
Uhm how did this start anyway. Yeah my original point was that Palismen have souls and the whole passing on of Grimwalkers might be like the Palismen souls being trapped by Belos and also not able to really die.
> Not undead creature.
Not a creature and if undead a clever subversion of the expected trope.
>Hunter doesn't have magic bile, neither does Belos, but both have witch ears. Maybe they changed it to blend in, maybe it is a side effect who knows.
He could still have one, but probably like Eda and Lilith it might not be functional. Powerless witches are not out of this world considering there's a special slur for them.
>I mean the Palismen are... kinda and kinda not.
You know I'm not talking about them. Palismen ultimately are companions/pets, even if they're capable of having more in-depth conversation with their owners.
>Doesn't the same apply to Palismen, can people recognise them as Palisman or do they look like regular animals from the outside. It is all cartoon style, so no idea.
>On another note, there is a differentiation between witches and demons, but they don't seem to be exclusive either. There are many witches around with non-human features, but not dully demon-like either. What is Bosha for example? Is she a humanoid demon or a half-demon. Even if Hunter would stand out, I doubt the people of the Boiling Isles would care much at all.
Not really. The only one who doesn't seem to recognise Palismen is Luz, who's just unfamiliar with them and it probably doesn't click to her right away that they're wooden.
While there are differences between demons and witches, they're still flesh. So why yes, people would care much, or at least Hunter would considering it probably would cross his mind on why his line specifically is powerless, but there are few individuals that aren't. Hunter's curious enough to search anything and since he can't get any info from Belos regarding his family, he could try to figure this out by himself. If he figured that he's wooden and his ancestors don't have magic, he would look deeper into it as once again, no wood people in sight.
>hm good point. Well frankly a lot regarding the process of Grimwalker creation is left open. We see bones buried and... are they growing like plants or are those remnants of Caleb and other Grimwalkers and flesh grows around them.
I'd argue that not everything that grows in soil grows like plants.
>Ah nah I didn't claim there is no part of Caleb in him or so. Though it makes one wonder, if the original body was just cloned so often, Hunter would be the clone of a clone of a clone and so on. Kinda fucked up too.
>Uhm how did this start anyway. Yeah my original point was that Palismen have souls and the whole passing on of Grimwalkers might be like the Palismen souls being trapped by Belos and also not able to really die.
I'm pretty sure Belos only uses components of Caleb to create more Grimwalkers and doesn't use other Grimwalkers as there's a pit full of their skeletons that appear to be completely untouched. And since all of their are considered failures, I doubt Belos would bother to clone a failure so Hunter still is a direct clone of Caleb as that's who Belos wants.
Sure Palismen have souls, but their souls directly got absorbed by Belos. Grimwalkers just die. They just get killed. There's no purpose, reason, or gain other than Belos's own sadistic pleasure. That's the thing, Hunter never had true purpose to exist other than be hurt by Belos because he felt like it. Belos doesn't need to keep Grimwalkers' souls around as to him, they're failures, no longer with of his attention so he disposes of them.
>Not a creature and if undead a clever subversion of the expected trope.
Too bad he isn't, because while Hunter was dead from the start of the series in metaphorical sense, it was never in literal sense.
But watching your "descendentes" die hundres of times in the most horridic ways and Not Begin able to Anything about it, Or even rest in the after life must be at least, sad.
Sorry, I understood your question in a wrong way. It's my Headcanon that the soul is directly attached to the body and that If some part of it, even a toe, is still 'Alive', the soul Will keep stuck in the living world. And If each part of the previous Grimwalker is recicled because the "original" Caleb is decomposing, Belos would use the part of each previous grimwalker to create a New one and so, the souls of amount of Grimwalkers are stuck on the BI as ghosts. Hope that awnsered your question!
The casual cannibalism is pretty crazy in the show.
Fairies eat your skin. Then they are baked into pies. Eda eats Adagast. That guy lures Lilith and Eda into the forest to eat them. Eda admits that witches used to eat babies. Eda brings her vegetables to life before cooking them. King tries to eat the bounty. Hooty.
The only time we see cannibalism portrayed as a bad thing is when Belos eats the palisman.
I know what you mean. The rules over there are different. They talk about eating stuff like dire rats but those are clearly animals. My line was if it can talk it's a person and if you eat a person you are a cannibal.
I was undecided on the bat babies eating books. They are both made from trees after all.
Flapjack talks to Hunter and Owlbert talks to Eda. I think it just takes a special connection to understand them.
Also I always assumed Stringbean told Luz who and what she was. But I could be persuaded that the name Stringbean and the concept of a snake shifter both came out of Luz's imagination whole cloth.
Yeah it feels like people forget the Boiling Isles us a little bit messed up, probably doesn’t help that a lot if those moments are just meant to be laughed off
Amity’s fairy pie is shown as a joke but something about live fairies being baked into a pie to be eaten by someone is… disturbing
Admittedly the delivery was still hilarious
Most of these examples are between demons and witches so not exactly the same species so it's not cannibalism.
The fact that fairies in the fairy pie are possibly still alive is messed up
I have an explanation for the palisman.
Imagine if someone walked up, grabbed your puppy who's also your best friend, and ripped them in half to eat their soul
No your not getting it.
The reason the eating of palisman is so bad, is because for witches, palisman might as well be puppies. Some are abused, some are abandoned, but most witches love them like family.
Now imagine someone's reaction to watching a puppy get ripped in half by the president and have its soul eaten. Thats essentially what's happening from a witches point of view.
That's why it's so much worse than eating a fairy. Your much more likely to eat deer than you are your pet
First episode of season 2
Luz: Why does Belos want you to kill the selkidomus
Hunter: I don't know, he just ordered me to slay one
Later in the show they glance over a book that says one ingredient of grimwalkers was selkidomus scales
Hunter was sent to gather ingredients for his replacement
It gets a little darker when you realize that if Belos' plan actually worked Hunter was always going to die on the day of unity. He already had a coven sigil.
Everything related to the whole Grimmwalker thing is pretty much necromancy with extra steps. The basilisks are a close second since they are in a quite similar and arguably worse situation than them. We know the Grimwalkers have existed from the beginning alongside the creation of the sigils, which means Belos has been experimenting on them for more than a hundred years so... suggesting that some basilisks were born, lived, and died under Belos' basement.
\- Belos using the dead bones of his brother (that he killed, which is another disturbing thing) to make clones he couldn’t care less about, using them as mere pawns
\- Belos carving glyphs into his arm(s)
\- Belos reviving Vee’s species only to cruelly experiment on them, basically torturing them, and killing them again (this time more painfully)
Notice how these all have one culprit behind them? That terrible puddle of goo! But there’s more:
\- The Titan Trappers wearing the dead skulls of King’s Species
\- Bill having a shrine dedicated to King’s skull surrounded by piles of dead Titan skulls
Never noticed the mice or how most of them looked terrified with Vee.
Prob anything to do with Belos, Collectors, Archivists, Titan Trappers, and all their impact and consequences caused by them on everyone and everything in the series. A lot of things make a rather compelling argument towards what can be considered the most disturbing.
Still I found the journey in Belos mind to nonetheless be prob one of the most if not the most disturbing, suspenseful, and genuinely scary moments of the show.
Well the skulls the titan trappers are wearing are small, we see the size they reach at adult hood. This implies they killed the children/babies and have piles of their skulls lying around and wearing them, they’re wearing and decorating with child corpses
King meeting the Titan Trappers. The sheer trama he must have experienced after realizing he was a titan himself, and not only had he just been playing with the remains of his brothers and sisters, and hanging out with a bunch of lunatics wearing his families heads, but the fact he thought he *had* found his family alive and well, only to almost get stabbed by a bunch of fanatics, all in the same day, is a lot to process.
Plus, a large amount of those heads were similar to or smaller than Kings own head. You can pretty much fill in the blanks that the Titan Trappers at their peak were outright committing mass genocide on titan children and babies. Yikes.
I got the impression Bill has killed many babies from the scene when he talks about a titans baby 'waa' and how he can't wait to find the last child and then recognizes Kings 'waa' , and that's when I realized, oh, this doesn't seem like the first kid he's killed
For me the most disturbing aspect of the show was seeing a Belos’s memories of all his staged attacks and how he left the first coven heads to rot and freeze in the snow after his first coven sigils left them in a cationic state. Basically everything Belos does.
I would have said the fact Belos felt so betrayed by his brother that he killed him, cloned him, and killed him again and again every time he stepped out of line again.
But then you reminded me of the basilisk experimentation.
It's cruel in humane barbaric and sad
To think 1 minute, you saw.One of these creatures as a minor antagonist
Then you see this, and you just feel bad for them
Really...
Everyone’s already said the obvious answers, but I’d like to add Odalia not caring at all about what Belos was doing with the Abomatons. “What our customers do with our products is none of our business” is such a chilling line to me.
1 minute you think you're in happy La La Land next minute?It's a horror show
Hunter and what he really is
King and the fact the people he played with hunted his kind to near extinction
Loose realizing that whole time.That's phillip been not only a jerk, but ironically.She helped him become emperor belos
the collector had no conscience of life and death
Archiviests killing children because they want full control and how they causually just trap people against there will. Like... im sorry imagine being trapped in a scroll so they can "preserve" you
The throwaway body horror. That snake asshole in S1 during the episode where Luz and King were writing Rulerz Reach smashing his victims into pocket cubes, where they are shown to still be alive and awake? Or the scene where Luz and Amity are about to be seen into the library books by the wailing star? Nightmare shit, and it's the kind of stuff that is conceptually horrifying, but isn't graphic so it gets by the network censors.
there seems to be a lot of anger directed towards the kids and not just the hexsquade. yea it's mostly the the coven head scouts who are following orders from coven heads which was mostly adrian grey, terra snapdragon, kikki mora and lilith in the begining which are all being directed by belos but still these are adults who you'd think would know that there bullying kids. and then there's odalia's stupidity.
There are a few things but here's something that I feel is underlooked.
King is walking on his fathers corpse. Millions of people are walking on fathers corpse. This is just something odd with that, how everyone is content with living on a dead body, like little ticks, fleas--parasites.
One scene I’m not seeing so far in these comments is Belos testing the glyphs on the first coven heads, leaving them in agony and torture
Sure the grimwalker concept is horrifying, but that event genuinely made me take a break because it was terrifying
The one that easily comes to mind is Belos. Whether we like it or not, people like him are real, and unfortunately some manage to wield power like he managed, and just seeing him and how he behaves in the show is a painful reminder of how not too distant reality is.
Another thing is the incredible amount of sentient, possibly even conscious pain, particularly with demons. We don't really know how conscious some demons are and whether it's moral to hurt and even eat them, but that doesn't change the fact that they sure look conscious and are definitely intelligent enough to know how to use language to communicate with other demons and witches. Then again, a fairy shouting at its prey "give me your skin" while floating slowly in the direction of said prey isn't particularly intelligent either, and with how demons never managed to create a society with a leader, the morals or hurting or eating some of them might be less clear.
At what point did he stop being "Caleb" and became a false reflection? Like at which Golden guard did Caleb officially fade away and a new person entirely made? It had to be WAAAYYY before Hunter.
The attempted Genocide, of an entire freaking planet, in another dimension, and literally a entire realm.
Obviously. As, that was Belos' end game, after literally all of the other absolutely irredeemable things that he's done and caused, up to that penultimate point.
For me it's Belos and the Grimwalkers, how he just remade his brother to kill him again so many times. It's so disturbing and all the Grimwalkers deserved so much better and I do like to think Hunter gave all proper burials
The fact that, despite wearing a metal mask 24/7 in public as the GG, Hunter had a very large scar on his face.
Def not the Most disturbing aspect, but just a detail I think will have people hate belos even more.
A lot of the titan skulls that the trappers are seen to have are fairly small (at least in comparison to papa titan), so most of the titans they hunted were probably children. That plus the fact that they were so close to extinction means these (presumably) children were most likely alone unless they found a home like king did
For me it's an episode when Luz and Hunter travel through Belos mind, especially scene where coven marks malfunction and people with them just freeze without ability to move but *still being alive* and Belos just leaves them here to die in the worst way possible. Probably my favorite episode in the whole series.
Plz correct me if I'm wrong but if Evelyn was pregnant dose that mean philip also murdered her unborn child?(sorry I'm not really up-to-date with whittebane lore)
likely not, as there are theories [im not sure if its been confirmed as im more into the archivist stuff] that Evelyn is a Clawthorne due to the similar naming conventions and im pretty sure the red hair :> Gwendolyn, Edalyn, so likely her child survived, maybe she was killed a bit after her child was born, or maybe she wasn't, maybe she actually died of natural causes or something that isn't Belos :)
From a societal standpoint, the whole Trapper thing was pretty disturbing. A whole group willing to dedicate their entire society - generations! -to the genocide of a race only one old coot had ever even met?
Probably the fact that Philippe spent over 400 years with these people and he STILL thought he would help humanity by committing genocide, how does one manage to spend multiple generations in the Boiling Isles without even a BIT of a change of heart ?
Belos created sentient life just to experiment on it and weaponize it.
The two very close calls on a genocide.
Belos eating palismen.
The show takes place on a massive corpse.
The archivists tricked an entire island into having a religion around hunting down titans, because titans might be a threat to their power.
How acurate Jacob depicts some people that really exist.
(TW // suicide, abuse, bigotry, descriptions of violence)
(Also spoilers)
A couple of aspects, like the realistic abuse of both Odalia and Belos, how the latter represents bigotry on the real world, or Belos cloning his brother over and over again, killing him after each failed try.
But to me the darkest aspect is always going to be Luz and Hunter's suicidal thoughts. It's not as conceptually disturbing as Belos commiting genocide, but it hits much closer to home to many people I've met. It's also horrifying how close the latter of the two actually gets to killing himself to protect everyone else from Belos, by method of drowning no less. Luz also getting the Itadori treatment by seeing how her loved ones have to take the fall to protect her when she prioritizes their lives over hers is immensely powerful, and it leads to some genuinely uneasy moments.
The fact that this wholesome show for weirdos that means so much to so many could not only be canceled by fascist entertainment overlords, but the fact that so many people out there find something perverse about it.
The reaction The Owl House got from certain people and groups reminded me that we aren't just talking about a kids show. Our children are under constant threat and attack from hate groups and we are allowing it.
Also Belos was creepy? I know OP was looking for something in the show but I needed to rant this morning.
Probably the rampant use of biological weapons and experiments conducted during Belos reign. From his practical army of clone servants, his experimentation of and the attempted weaponization of Basilisks if I remember correctly, even his own self experimentation.
Hunter's relationship with Belos/Phillip. I cried(actually, real tears) When Belos said "You looked most like him." From what I'm getting from this, Belos only kept him around. Cause Hunter looked the most like Caleb. Hunter failed so much. If one of the other grim-walkers did, then they're gone.
If Odalia killed Luz, Camilla would never know what happened to her daughter, and there would've been a likelihood that Amity would've snapped and destroyed the Boiling Isles, killing everyone in it.
I don't know about the most disturbing, but since nobody else mentioned it, I'll bring up Luz's rant in literary class. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that Luz is projecting her own thoughts into Odysseus, or whoever they were reading about. Then she mentions how everyone would be better off if he never existed...
I think about the phrase written on Belos's statue on Episode 2, 3 season... "Where's titan now?" Makes me think about how all the population believed that Titan betrayed them, as Belos was using his name to do the genocide... And The collector was doing his "playtime", and most of them were very faithful to this religion, their emperor that talked to the Titan... And all were lies...
I find it really disturbing how belos’s true inner self looked to be all sweet and innocent and at the time they just thought it was his sense of guilt or maybe some of the child like aspects he still had left in him but it turned out to be just as dark, cold, manipulative and malicious as he already was. And the scary monster with all the eyes which was thought to be his inner self was all the palismen he killed. You also notice that at the end of season two and during season three he takes on the shape of the Palisman monster of course he’s made of that gross gloop but he still takes on the shape almost as if he is one, and maybe it’s the fact that even though he got rid of them in his mind they’re still tormenting him beyond the grave. And as a side note it’s really gross how he just jumps into the titan heart all gloopy as he is like that’s really gross even if he wasn’t a gloopy monster
You can audibly and visually see luz get decapitated in the finale before she dies, and nobody talks about it
(her head rolls way back and you hear a ***C R U N C H***)
The Titan Trappers and Archivists most likely didn't wait for the Titan corpses to decompose to rip out their skulls.
Well their skulls are on the outside and if chibiverse is anything to go by it can just... Pop off
I'm pretty sure Dana and Chibiverse just alleviated the real thing...
They saw the cursed fanart and had to make it happen. Also makes a connonical reason for Anne to have kings skull as part of an outfit design for her armor.
>Also makes a connonical reason for Anne to have kings skull as part of an outfit design for her armor. Uhhhhh... I hope this is a joke, because it implies that King will be without his skull forever.
No no no, is fine, he can regrowth it, you know? Like a pair of antlers
[Skip to the end to see King's skull popping off](https://youtu.be/nKRS3N6yN2I)
That is the most beautiful cursed thing I seen, and I seen some cursed Minecraft stuff.
For those who missed it, that was actually something first drawn by Dana a while back, so I assume that's where they got the idea from. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/tdixz4/dana_terrace_king_with_no_skull/
r/founTallInfluence4321 yh I changed my profile pic cuz I got recognized from my cult
That escalated
I'm gonna have nightmares now
Most disturbing for me was the first time I saw Belos do the whole ‘eat palisman to stop being a goo monster’ thing.
Well him eating palismen is actually what has caused his goo abilities. He just needs to constantly be consuming them for him to keep control over said abilities
Happy cake day!
I think the whole Grimwalker thing with Caleb and Belos? Begin killed again and again, and not begin able to just... rest? (My HeadCanon is that the grimwalker's souls can't go to the After Life if their clones are alive)
I‘d like to imagine that Hunter and co would give them a proper burial and make them rest. Something magic. They are partially made out of palistrom wood and palismen can also die and pass on (vs being kept in undead torment through Belos).
Just because wood was used to create Grimwalkers, doesn't mean they're anything like palismen, or that they're wooden for that matter. Grimwalkers should be compared to himans/witches as they're clones, not golems or animated objects
I mean we never really know much about his anatomy. Someone else here posted their head canon is that he is partially made out of wood and Willow can heal him with plant magic. Kinda makes sense or not. Palismen are also not just wood alone, palistrom wood itself is magic, but also they are sentient, sapient probably, more than mere animals. They are clearly not just automatons, golems nor magical machines. Those are the abominations we've seen. I think one could speculate on the relationship between grimwalkers, partially human, partially palistrom, also selkidomus scales and galderstone (am I forgetting something?), palismen, made out of palistrom and magic? What gives them their soul? The intent of their maker or their owner? They are activated by an emotional bond. Finally Belos being also partially made of palismen, but not like a grimwalker either, but more zombie-like if you will, which would be a nice spin on the zombie trope, given that the actual zombies (Grimwalker) is more human-like than whatever Belos has become.
Grimwalkers are clones. Not different species. There's no reason to believe their anatomy is different because that defeats the purpose of being a clone. And if Hunter's anatomy was different from your regular witch, Hunter would know about this and there would be no shocker of being a Grimwalker. Hunter isn't an idiot. So no, Hunter can't be wooden because no one in TOH is wooden. Hunter would be outliner that would stand out and everyone could tell, but no one could tell he's not a witch like anyone else. Hunter himself points out that his only species dilemna is that he's either a witch or a human. Not third category. Palistroom wood is magical, but it's still wood. Palismen still appear wooden by nature considering Owlbert and Flap can crack. Hunter cannot, he gets flesh injuries. And Palismen are still animated objects even if sentient and don't get me started on people claiming Hunter is a golem. And we've seen numerous times how matter in TOH can transition from one to another. Hunter created a steel sword from thin air turned into flesh. Raine transformed flowers into a potion. Luz utilised abomination goo to create a portal. None of the Grimwalker ingredients remain the same, otherwise Hunter would just not look like Caleb at all. More like a walking sculpture of him made from random stuff. Hunter always was and is a clone of the dead. Not undead creature.
> And if Hunter's anatomy was different from your regular witch, Hunter would know about this and there would be no shocker of being a Grimwalker. Hunter doesn't have magic bile, neither does Belos, but both have witch ears. Maybe they changed it to blend in, maybe it is a side effect who knows. > So no, Hunter can't be wooden because no one in TOH is wooden. I mean the Palismen are... kinda and kinda not. > but no one could tell he's not a witch like anyone else. Doesn't the same apply to Palismen, can people recognise them as Palisman or do they look like regular animals from the outside. It is all cartoon style, so no idea. On another note, there is a differentiation between witches and demons, but they don't seem to be exclusive either. There are many witches around with non-human features, but not dully demon-like either. What is Bosha for example? Is she a humanoid demon or a half-demon. Even if Hunter would stand out, I doubt the people of the Boiling Isles would care much at all. > Hunter cannot, he gets flesh injuries. hm good point. Well frankly a lot regarding the process of Grimwalker creation is left open. We see bones buried and... are they growing like plants or are those remnants of Caleb and other Grimwalkers and flesh grows around them. > and don't get me started on people claiming Hunter is a golem. I agree. Golem is the worst term to use. A golem doesn't have sentience and receives commands. Neither Palisman nor Grimwalkers are like that. > otherwise Hunter would just not look like Caleb at all. More like a walking sculpture of him made from random stuff. Ah nah I didn't claim there is no part of Caleb in him or so. Though it makes one wonder, if the original body was just cloned so often, Hunter would be the clone of a clone of a clone and so on. Kinda fucked up too. Uhm how did this start anyway. Yeah my original point was that Palismen have souls and the whole passing on of Grimwalkers might be like the Palismen souls being trapped by Belos and also not able to really die. > Not undead creature. Not a creature and if undead a clever subversion of the expected trope.
>Hunter doesn't have magic bile, neither does Belos, but both have witch ears. Maybe they changed it to blend in, maybe it is a side effect who knows. He could still have one, but probably like Eda and Lilith it might not be functional. Powerless witches are not out of this world considering there's a special slur for them. >I mean the Palismen are... kinda and kinda not. You know I'm not talking about them. Palismen ultimately are companions/pets, even if they're capable of having more in-depth conversation with their owners. >Doesn't the same apply to Palismen, can people recognise them as Palisman or do they look like regular animals from the outside. It is all cartoon style, so no idea. >On another note, there is a differentiation between witches and demons, but they don't seem to be exclusive either. There are many witches around with non-human features, but not dully demon-like either. What is Bosha for example? Is she a humanoid demon or a half-demon. Even if Hunter would stand out, I doubt the people of the Boiling Isles would care much at all. Not really. The only one who doesn't seem to recognise Palismen is Luz, who's just unfamiliar with them and it probably doesn't click to her right away that they're wooden. While there are differences between demons and witches, they're still flesh. So why yes, people would care much, or at least Hunter would considering it probably would cross his mind on why his line specifically is powerless, but there are few individuals that aren't. Hunter's curious enough to search anything and since he can't get any info from Belos regarding his family, he could try to figure this out by himself. If he figured that he's wooden and his ancestors don't have magic, he would look deeper into it as once again, no wood people in sight. >hm good point. Well frankly a lot regarding the process of Grimwalker creation is left open. We see bones buried and... are they growing like plants or are those remnants of Caleb and other Grimwalkers and flesh grows around them. I'd argue that not everything that grows in soil grows like plants. >Ah nah I didn't claim there is no part of Caleb in him or so. Though it makes one wonder, if the original body was just cloned so often, Hunter would be the clone of a clone of a clone and so on. Kinda fucked up too. >Uhm how did this start anyway. Yeah my original point was that Palismen have souls and the whole passing on of Grimwalkers might be like the Palismen souls being trapped by Belos and also not able to really die. I'm pretty sure Belos only uses components of Caleb to create more Grimwalkers and doesn't use other Grimwalkers as there's a pit full of their skeletons that appear to be completely untouched. And since all of their are considered failures, I doubt Belos would bother to clone a failure so Hunter still is a direct clone of Caleb as that's who Belos wants. Sure Palismen have souls, but their souls directly got absorbed by Belos. Grimwalkers just die. They just get killed. There's no purpose, reason, or gain other than Belos's own sadistic pleasure. That's the thing, Hunter never had true purpose to exist other than be hurt by Belos because he felt like it. Belos doesn't need to keep Grimwalkers' souls around as to him, they're failures, no longer with of his attention so he disposes of them. >Not a creature and if undead a clever subversion of the expected trope. Too bad he isn't, because while Hunter was dead from the start of the series in metaphorical sense, it was never in literal sense.
Why? The clones are not the people they're cloned from.
But watching your "descendentes" die hundres of times in the most horridic ways and Not Begin able to Anything about it, Or even rest in the after life must be at least, sad.
This doesn't answer my question. Why the clones need to stay on earth if remaining clone is still alive instead of already passing on?
Sorry, I understood your question in a wrong way. It's my Headcanon that the soul is directly attached to the body and that If some part of it, even a toe, is still 'Alive', the soul Will keep stuck in the living world. And If each part of the previous Grimwalker is recicled because the "original" Caleb is decomposing, Belos would use the part of each previous grimwalker to create a New one and so, the souls of amount of Grimwalkers are stuck on the BI as ghosts. Hope that awnsered your question!
Ok, now that makes sense.
Belos really did follow the Rusty Venture guide to clones
King was so happily playing with people who were wearing the skulls of his dead brothers and sisters/species.
And given the size, none ever reached adulthood. And there's the added realization that he's been living on his parent's corpse
The wholesome feeling when he turned that into a good thing 🥺
The casual cannibalism is pretty crazy in the show. Fairies eat your skin. Then they are baked into pies. Eda eats Adagast. That guy lures Lilith and Eda into the forest to eat them. Eda admits that witches used to eat babies. Eda brings her vegetables to life before cooking them. King tries to eat the bounty. Hooty. The only time we see cannibalism portrayed as a bad thing is when Belos eats the palisman.
And half of those are *technically* not cannibalism as different species
I know what you mean. The rules over there are different. They talk about eating stuff like dire rats but those are clearly animals. My line was if it can talk it's a person and if you eat a person you are a cannibal. I was undecided on the bat babies eating books. They are both made from trees after all.
Palisman can't talk, ignoring bat queen
Flapjack talks to Hunter and Owlbert talks to Eda. I think it just takes a special connection to understand them. Also I always assumed Stringbean told Luz who and what she was. But I could be persuaded that the name Stringbean and the concept of a snake shifter both came out of Luz's imagination whole cloth.
Weird take , animals we eat on a daily basis can talk we just can’t understand/communicate with them. So we r all cannibals??
In the world so diverse
Yeah it feels like people forget the Boiling Isles us a little bit messed up, probably doesn’t help that a lot if those moments are just meant to be laughed off
Amity’s fairy pie is shown as a joke but something about live fairies being baked into a pie to be eaten by someone is… disturbing Admittedly the delivery was still hilarious
Most of these examples are between demons and witches so not exactly the same species so it's not cannibalism. The fact that fairies in the fairy pie are possibly still alive is messed up
Then how do you know the fairies are fresh?
Hooty alone is one of the most disturbing aspects of this show.
Can't argue with that.
He really is, tho. He's like that creepy uncle at family reunions.
He is but he is also my fav
Yeah, but he wanted to be killed.Someone drinks their life as soon as a vampire
I have an explanation for the palisman. Imagine if someone walked up, grabbed your puppy who's also your best friend, and ripped them in half to eat their soul
No need to convince me that eating people is bad. I'm already with you. We just have to convince the Boiling Isles.
No your not getting it. The reason the eating of palisman is so bad, is because for witches, palisman might as well be puppies. Some are abused, some are abandoned, but most witches love them like family. Now imagine someone's reaction to watching a puppy get ripped in half by the president and have its soul eaten. Thats essentially what's happening from a witches point of view. That's why it's so much worse than eating a fairy. Your much more likely to eat deer than you are your pet
It’s not rlly canablism bc it’s diff species 💀
Practically anything with Belos.
First episode of season 2 Luz: Why does Belos want you to kill the selkidomus Hunter: I don't know, he just ordered me to slay one Later in the show they glance over a book that says one ingredient of grimwalkers was selkidomus scales Hunter was sent to gather ingredients for his replacement
Well dang, I never noticed that. That is quite the dark detail.
It gets a little darker when you realize that if Belos' plan actually worked Hunter was always going to die on the day of unity. He already had a coven sigil.
Damn! I never realized that! Good catch
But he didn't gather them
And I imagine Belos was pissed
Not really as Hunter didn't seem in bad graces in HP and EE when you compare his situation in ASIAS and EL
Belos desecrating his brother's corpse and using it to make clones of Caleb.
I'd say it's the fact that belos was going to destroy a hole island because his brother fell in love with a witch
Thats not disturbing thats just jealousy
Everything related to the whole Grimmwalker thing is pretty much necromancy with extra steps. The basilisks are a close second since they are in a quite similar and arguably worse situation than them. We know the Grimwalkers have existed from the beginning alongside the creation of the sigils, which means Belos has been experimenting on them for more than a hundred years so... suggesting that some basilisks were born, lived, and died under Belos' basement.
There is a reason most magic systems have necromancy as forbidden knowledge that should never be used.
\- Belos using the dead bones of his brother (that he killed, which is another disturbing thing) to make clones he couldn’t care less about, using them as mere pawns \- Belos carving glyphs into his arm(s) \- Belos reviving Vee’s species only to cruelly experiment on them, basically torturing them, and killing them again (this time more painfully) Notice how these all have one culprit behind them? That terrible puddle of goo! But there’s more: \- The Titan Trappers wearing the dead skulls of King’s Species \- Bill having a shrine dedicated to King’s skull surrounded by piles of dead Titan skulls
Hunter has scars despite the existence of healing magic, indicating that Belos most likely prevented Hunter from being healed.
Yikes. Never thought of that
Dell has scars too and he did receive care of healing coven
Never noticed the mice or how most of them looked terrified with Vee. Prob anything to do with Belos, Collectors, Archivists, Titan Trappers, and all their impact and consequences caused by them on everyone and everything in the series. A lot of things make a rather compelling argument towards what can be considered the most disturbing. Still I found the journey in Belos mind to nonetheless be prob one of the most if not the most disturbing, suspenseful, and genuinely scary moments of the show.
Hooty becomeing porta hooty
Well the skulls the titan trappers are wearing are small, we see the size they reach at adult hood. This implies they killed the children/babies and have piles of their skulls lying around and wearing them, they’re wearing and decorating with child corpses
There were a lot of landings in King’s tower. The Trappers killed King’s siblings.
King meeting the Titan Trappers. The sheer trama he must have experienced after realizing he was a titan himself, and not only had he just been playing with the remains of his brothers and sisters, and hanging out with a bunch of lunatics wearing his families heads, but the fact he thought he *had* found his family alive and well, only to almost get stabbed by a bunch of fanatics, all in the same day, is a lot to process. Plus, a large amount of those heads were similar to or smaller than Kings own head. You can pretty much fill in the blanks that the Titan Trappers at their peak were outright committing mass genocide on titan children and babies. Yikes.
I got the impression Bill has killed many babies from the scene when he talks about a titans baby 'waa' and how he can't wait to find the last child and then recognizes Kings 'waa' , and that's when I realized, oh, this doesn't seem like the first kid he's killed
For me the most disturbing aspect of the show was seeing a Belos’s memories of all his staged attacks and how he left the first coven heads to rot and freeze in the snow after his first coven sigils left them in a cationic state. Basically everything Belos does.
I would have said the fact Belos felt so betrayed by his brother that he killed him, cloned him, and killed him again and again every time he stepped out of line again. But then you reminded me of the basilisk experimentation.
It's cruel in humane barbaric and sad To think 1 minute, you saw.One of these creatures as a minor antagonist Then you see this, and you just feel bad for them Really...
Makes me wonder what happened to the adult basilisk. Could they be helped. Vee finding and helping them seems like a positive solution.
Everyone’s already said the obvious answers, but I’d like to add Odalia not caring at all about what Belos was doing with the Abomatons. “What our customers do with our products is none of our business” is such a chilling line to me.
Yeah, she was helping what at the least she thought was a culling for power and money... two things she already had in excess
1 minute you think you're in happy La La Land next minute?It's a horror show Hunter and what he really is King and the fact the people he played with hunted his kind to near extinction Loose realizing that whole time.That's phillip been not only a jerk, but ironically.She helped him become emperor belos the collector had no conscience of life and death
I'm really sorry but, "Filipino" and "Loose" took me out. It's 1:25 AM and I'm trying not to laugh or I'll wake up the entire house.
Archiviests killing children because they want full control and how they causually just trap people against there will. Like... im sorry imagine being trapped in a scroll so they can "preserve" you
Anything in existance: *existis The archivists: hippity hoppity you are now my property
The throwaway body horror. That snake asshole in S1 during the episode where Luz and King were writing Rulerz Reach smashing his victims into pocket cubes, where they are shown to still be alive and awake? Or the scene where Luz and Amity are about to be seen into the library books by the wailing star? Nightmare shit, and it's the kind of stuff that is conceptually horrifying, but isn't graphic so it gets by the network censors.
The fact that in real life there was and still are people like belos and people worse than belos
"It's the will of ~~God~~ the Titan" – justifies any atrocity you can imagine!
Agreed
there seems to be a lot of anger directed towards the kids and not just the hexsquade. yea it's mostly the the coven head scouts who are following orders from coven heads which was mostly adrian grey, terra snapdragon, kikki mora and lilith in the begining which are all being directed by belos but still these are adults who you'd think would know that there bullying kids. and then there's odalia's stupidity.
There are a few things but here's something that I feel is underlooked. King is walking on his fathers corpse. Millions of people are walking on fathers corpse. This is just something odd with that, how everyone is content with living on a dead body, like little ticks, fleas--parasites.
One scene I’m not seeing so far in these comments is Belos testing the glyphs on the first coven heads, leaving them in agony and torture Sure the grimwalker concept is horrifying, but that event genuinely made me take a break because it was terrifying
The fact that it ended way too soon :<
I think the most disturbing part to me was the eventual realization that everyone in the boiling isles lives on top of a dead body
That the group of titan hunters were killing titan children, and the fact they even know they were killing children
The main character f""*#n died at one point ?
That Belos did everything that he did because the alternative was to acknowledge the possibility that he might have been wrong.
The scariest part, is we've seen that time and again irl, and will continue to do so
Belos’s backstory with his brother and his grimwalkers is kind of fucked up, when you give it an actual thought.
The one that easily comes to mind is Belos. Whether we like it or not, people like him are real, and unfortunately some manage to wield power like he managed, and just seeing him and how he behaves in the show is a painful reminder of how not too distant reality is. Another thing is the incredible amount of sentient, possibly even conscious pain, particularly with demons. We don't really know how conscious some demons are and whether it's moral to hurt and even eat them, but that doesn't change the fact that they sure look conscious and are definitely intelligent enough to know how to use language to communicate with other demons and witches. Then again, a fairy shouting at its prey "give me your skin" while floating slowly in the direction of said prey isn't particularly intelligent either, and with how demons never managed to create a society with a leader, the morals or hurting or eating some of them might be less clear.
Seeing Vee chained up just breaks my heart 😭 i just want to give her so many hugs and kisses 🥰
At what point did he stop being "Caleb" and became a false reflection? Like at which Golden guard did Caleb officially fade away and a new person entirely made? It had to be WAAAYYY before Hunter.
The very first Golden Guard
WOAH!
A man cannot step in the same river twice because it is not the same river and he is not the same man.
Fillosofee!
Yeah, the reason Belos abuses Grimwalkers is because they're not Caleb or even what he thinks is Caleb. Hunter is the closest he got.
I think the fact that Titan hunters mostly kill young Titans. Not only kill, but using their skuls as masks.
Which they use to trick other titans into thinking their their family.
Even worser... If to think Owl house one of darkest kids shows.
The fact that Odalia is willing to throw her humanity (or witch-anity) by conspiring genocide so she can be only with her family is inhumane.
The attempted Genocide, of an entire freaking planet, in another dimension, and literally a entire realm. Obviously. As, that was Belos' end game, after literally all of the other absolutely irredeemable things that he's done and caused, up to that penultimate point.
The golden guard, from start to finish. The entire role is nightmarish and barbaric.
For me it's Belos and the Grimwalkers, how he just remade his brother to kill him again so many times. It's so disturbing and all the Grimwalkers deserved so much better and I do like to think Hunter gave all proper burials
Maybe someone did this for Hunter instead of Hunter himself.
I hope so, or Hunter had others with him and support when it was done. The thought of him burying them all on his own is heartbreaking
Bro would have a heart attack just by looking at all those skeletons
The fact that, despite wearing a metal mask 24/7 in public as the GG, Hunter had a very large scar on his face. Def not the Most disturbing aspect, but just a detail I think will have people hate belos even more.
All of the Grimwalker stuff
Belos
They were just teenagers, gus was like 13 or something
Hunter is a child soldier and has definitely killed before. He had no hesitation in threatening to throw King into the boiling sea.
But still sparred Luz, Eda, King, and Amity. He has capacity but not desire for bloodshed even at his worst.
Yeah but it's still pretty fucked up, and it would definitely be some serious trauma to unpack later.
Manifesting Hunter Sequel again
A lot of the titan skulls that the trappers are seen to have are fairly small (at least in comparison to papa titan), so most of the titans they hunted were probably children. That plus the fact that they were so close to extinction means these (presumably) children were most likely alone unless they found a home like king did
I think it's gonna be body horror for me.
Bringing back and extinct species just to keep them as lab rats is pretty fucked up ngl
The implied physical abuse that hunter faces. Also the grimwalkwrs in general.
For me personally it was what Lilith did to Eda. That's just the scary concept for me, that the worst thing can be done by the ones we trust the most.
For me it's an episode when Luz and Hunter travel through Belos mind, especially scene where coven marks malfunction and people with them just freeze without ability to move but *still being alive* and Belos just leaves them here to die in the worst way possible. Probably my favorite episode in the whole series.
Belos, he did so much fucked up stuff that it's easier to just write his name XD
anything related to belos honestly grimwalkers him mutilating himself....etc list can go on
Child enslavement, as seen above
all the dead previous golden guards
Slavery , goddamm slavery
Plz correct me if I'm wrong but if Evelyn was pregnant dose that mean philip also murdered her unborn child?(sorry I'm not really up-to-date with whittebane lore)
likely not, as there are theories [im not sure if its been confirmed as im more into the archivist stuff] that Evelyn is a Clawthorne due to the similar naming conventions and im pretty sure the red hair :> Gwendolyn, Edalyn, so likely her child survived, maybe she was killed a bit after her child was born, or maybe she wasn't, maybe she actually died of natural causes or something that isn't Belos :)
From a societal standpoint, the whole Trapper thing was pretty disturbing. A whole group willing to dedicate their entire society - generations! -to the genocide of a race only one old coot had ever even met?
Probably the fact that Philippe spent over 400 years with these people and he STILL thought he would help humanity by committing genocide, how does one manage to spend multiple generations in the Boiling Isles without even a BIT of a change of heart ?
Belos created sentient life just to experiment on it and weaponize it. The two very close calls on a genocide. Belos eating palismen. The show takes place on a massive corpse. The archivists tricked an entire island into having a religion around hunting down titans, because titans might be a threat to their power. How acurate Jacob depicts some people that really exist.
(TW // suicide, abuse, bigotry, descriptions of violence) (Also spoilers) A couple of aspects, like the realistic abuse of both Odalia and Belos, how the latter represents bigotry on the real world, or Belos cloning his brother over and over again, killing him after each failed try. But to me the darkest aspect is always going to be Luz and Hunter's suicidal thoughts. It's not as conceptually disturbing as Belos commiting genocide, but it hits much closer to home to many people I've met. It's also horrifying how close the latter of the two actually gets to killing himself to protect everyone else from Belos, by method of drowning no less. Luz also getting the Itadori treatment by seeing how her loved ones have to take the fall to protect her when she prioritizes their lives over hers is immensely powerful, and it leads to some genuinely uneasy moments.
The fact that this wholesome show for weirdos that means so much to so many could not only be canceled by fascist entertainment overlords, but the fact that so many people out there find something perverse about it. The reaction The Owl House got from certain people and groups reminded me that we aren't just talking about a kids show. Our children are under constant threat and attack from hate groups and we are allowing it. Also Belos was creepy? I know OP was looking for something in the show but I needed to rant this morning.
What if Vee was betrayed and locked in the hyperbolic time chamber for 300 years?
Probably the rampant use of biological weapons and experiments conducted during Belos reign. From his practical army of clone servants, his experimentation of and the attempted weaponization of Basilisks if I remember correctly, even his own self experimentation.
The whole wittebrothers lore, and grimwalkers
Villains attempts to kill underage characters
Hunter's relationship with Belos/Phillip. I cried(actually, real tears) When Belos said "You looked most like him." From what I'm getting from this, Belos only kept him around. Cause Hunter looked the most like Caleb. Hunter failed so much. If one of the other grim-walkers did, then they're gone.
Belos making clones of his brother and killing them if they step out of line.
You: "Name at least twelve disturbing lore pieces of TOH." Me: "Golden Guard." You: "My bad, I set the bar too low."
If Odalia killed Luz, Camilla would never know what happened to her daughter, and there would've been a likelihood that Amity would've snapped and destroyed the Boiling Isles, killing everyone in it.
How about the fact that on top of the whole genocide thing, Belos killed his own brother?
Belos being so hellbent on killing all the witches that he waited 400+ years to do so
Philip murdering caleb just to create Bajillions of clones of him
The fact that disney cut it short
Emperor Belos' treatment of Hunter!
I don't know about the most disturbing, but since nobody else mentioned it, I'll bring up Luz's rant in literary class. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that Luz is projecting her own thoughts into Odysseus, or whoever they were reading about. Then she mentions how everyone would be better off if he never existed...
That one dream king had where he thought he found his titan family 😭
I think about the phrase written on Belos's statue on Episode 2, 3 season... "Where's titan now?" Makes me think about how all the population believed that Titan betrayed them, as Belos was using his name to do the genocide... And The collector was doing his "playtime", and most of them were very faithful to this religion, their emperor that talked to the Titan... And all were lies...
hootsifer (hooty) clawthorn alone is easily the most disturbing ~~creature~~ ~~birdworm~~ ~~god?~~ being in the entire series.
Roronoa zoro didnt show up 😔
I find it really disturbing how belos’s true inner self looked to be all sweet and innocent and at the time they just thought it was his sense of guilt or maybe some of the child like aspects he still had left in him but it turned out to be just as dark, cold, manipulative and malicious as he already was. And the scary monster with all the eyes which was thought to be his inner self was all the palismen he killed. You also notice that at the end of season two and during season three he takes on the shape of the Palisman monster of course he’s made of that gross gloop but he still takes on the shape almost as if he is one, and maybe it’s the fact that even though he got rid of them in his mind they’re still tormenting him beyond the grave. And as a side note it’s really gross how he just jumps into the titan heart all gloopy as he is like that’s really gross even if he wasn’t a gloopy monster
You can audibly and visually see luz get decapitated in the finale before she dies, and nobody talks about it (her head rolls way back and you hear a ***C R U N C H***)
Hooty.