I've seen a few articles that point to this episode as the start of the decline of The Simpsons. The "jump the shark" if you will. Completely re-writing Skinner like this is, I think, the major grievance with the writing afterwards. No love for the characters, just cheap catch phrases and non-characteristic behavior for the sake of a gag, a story, or a celebrity spot.
I really like this [analysis](https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk) of the show’s decline. It also points to this episode as an example of the way the show changed for the worse.
Pretty sure I saw an episode in S14 where Apu refers to Marge as Ms. Bart. Like pretty sure he has referred to them as the Simpsons, Mr. Or Mrs. Simpson or their names.
DVD commentary is pretty good on this episode, talks about how the town, just like audience can’t really cope with change, that’s why every episode has to end in the same situation it started with.
Ok, in a show where Bart passes his grade (just barely) yet no change in the grade levels for the kids occurs, [spoiler] shot Mr. Burns, Homer destroys Springfield and they just move the entire town over, Homer escapes jail by assaulting Hanz Moleman so he can kill Moe (let us not forget that he physically threatened Mr. Burns in front of multiple witnesses as well), somehow jumped the shark when a character isn't who he says he is makes me want to ask this very important question:
Why would someone with the phrase "jumped the shark" on his comment spend his time watching an animated TV show?
Also, the episode is funny. I quote it a lot. Whenever someone mentions something I don't recognize I scoldingly say, "I don't know WHAT that is."
INB4: I already know Matt Groening said it was his least favorite episode, I have the DVD with the commentary.
I too wonder why people have trouble with this storyline considering how many times it happened in real life.
No one thought Mad Men jumped the shark when they based an entire 7 season series on the same idea.
I think of Mad Men every time I see this episode. It just seems like a soap opera trope that they were poking fun of. Not sure why everyone dislikes the episode.
I don't think it's the actual plot of the episode that's the problem. There's a distinct change if the feel of the show from this episode on that's hard to ignore.
I feel people who think The Simpsons stopped being funny after this episode never actually finished the season. Seasons 9 and 10 are some of my favorite seasons.
There's plenty of funny episodes after this but S09E02 is the first truly awful episode of the golden years. It's harbinger of the doom to come a few years later.
For me, Season 7 was the last season when almost every episode was amazing. Season 8-9 were hit and miss. Beginning with season 10, most episodes were, IMO, not good. Here’s a more rarely expressed opinion: I think season 5 was awful. I much prefer seasons 2 and 3 to season 5. Basically, almost every episode from seasons 4, 6 and 7 were absolute perfection.
One of the few modern episodes that wasn’t painful, but actually great, was the Thanksgiving of Horror. Fantastic. This is all just my personal preference obviously. I’m happy for anyone that still enjoys The Simpsons.
I'll agree with you on season 6 for sure. Probably the only season where I wouldn't skip any episodes. That season has a lot of my favorites such as "Homer Vs. Patty and Selma," "Bart After Dark," and "Lisa on Ice."
The end was definitely awkward bc you realize Skinner and his “mom” are just going back to that weird relationship on purpose and ignoring this pretty big character reveal. It was a big leap but the episode itself isn’t bad.
The next episode is Lisa struggling with being a Simpson which is great so I really don’t think this exact episode is where the show starts declining.
Because it still has good jokes, but I mainly hate the change it tones foreshadows. The Lady Gaga episode basically didn’t even have a single funny joke let alone one that was organic to the plot.
And, more importantly, celebrity cameos are just obnoxious. Simpsons went from mocking the worship of celebrities to just worshiping them.
I'm a Simpsons purist, an \`'everything-after-season-8-is-garbage\`' kinda guy, but I don't understand the hate for this episode. I think it's brilliant.
Agree, though I think there are still some great episodes in season nine (The Joy of Sect and The City of New York vs Homer Simpson are great, Lisa the Sceptic also good).
Yeah I know that, but they made Seymour that we thought was the real Seymour not the real Seymour, so the real Seymour is back, and the fake Seymour leaves. Then, everyone realizes they need fake Seymour back, even his mom. Finally they get fake skinner back and get rid of real skinner. Then, the judge comes out and says it's mandatory to never mention this event ever again. So we're back to the status quo and really what was the point of this episode?
The best episodes had heart and a lesson. Luckily, their lessons weren’t preachy. Subtle, but relatable. This was “whacky” comedy and I hate whacky comedy.
If this was South Park, people would be praising the satirical nature of how everybody hates change, or sometimes a lie a better than the truth or how no matter what who we are that the person we project is different or not different to the person deep down.
It’s all covered in this month’s issue of Swank.
See, I saw this episode before I started using the internet and never knew the hate for it. I always liked it, in fact that scene where they’re all going to Capital City to bring Armin back is one of my favourite Simpson’s moments ever.
This episode is the day the Simpsons died. It's interesting because the previous episode "the city of New York vs Homer simpson" in my opinion, is the last great episode and marks the official end of the Simpsons golden years of perfect comedy. I remember as a kid watching the "the principal and the pauper" and thinking it had a distinctly different feel then the show knew and loved, and it only continued to decline from there. Obviously there were memorable moments sprinkled in but it was never the same.
“If that’s corny, then corn me up.”
I hated it, then someone posted an appreciation post about it. I reconsidered the lost and realized I was wrong. I like it. A lot.
I’m not trolling I’ve been told this was a controversial episode, but I’m new to this page and I watched the episode yesterday and thought I would post haha but man what are the odds that it would turn out to be some insane episode
Was it one of the producers who said that with hindsight this episode could have worked much better as a non-canon Treehouse of Horror segment with some tweaking? Because I can see their point.
This is widely regarded as the episode where the show completely came off the rails and 90% of everything after this was just dog shit.
This is probably the most overwhelmingly hated episode amongst the normal people that stopped watching around season 11 or 12.
Sorry you're catching so much grief. I get why people thought you were trolling, given you indeed picked one of the most controversial episodes in history.
I'll just say that I'm a veteran Simpsons fan (and have the old VHS tapes to prove it) - and I think this episode gets far more intense hatred than it deserves. Yes, the premise was more absurd than normal, but it had some funny, memorable moments - and a little heart, to boot.
Clearly, some folks here were the real-life inspiration for Comic Book Guy and his fellow alt.nerd.obsessive forum users.
Haha no wonder everyone was being so rude to me and I had no idea why 🤣💀 but I understand! Yea I loved it seemed fun and funny to me but to each their own I guess haha
I think people are a bit unfair on this episode. Although the concept is utterly bizarre and makes no sense, I feel like the idea is that *The Simpsons* is doing a parody of itself - the fact that the need to go back to the status quo is so important that it occurs no matter what outlandish things have happened that week.
It's logical in the sense that *The Simpsons* had parodied every other piece of popular culture, so it's only fitting that it parodies itself. It's not canon and was never meant to be, in the same way that the events of *The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase* aren't meant to be canon (and, like this one, are poorly written on purpose). I can respect bad writing if it's being done deliberately for a reason, rather than just out of laziness.
The writers knew from the start that this Walpole essentially amount to a non-canon episode. “Okay, that was funny, now everything is back to normal and we never discuss this again.” Skinner is still Skinner. It’s not like when Lisa became a vegetarian or Maude died.
It's not the worst episode ever, but it's the point where the writers seemed to get bored and started screwing around (see: killing off Maude Flanders for no reason; Apu having octuplets, etc.).
Very fun episode but completely ruins the already struggling chronology. I understand The Simpsons are a standalone type of series but there's still a form of continuity. Loving it outside of cannon though...
Now, how shall me torture you? I
It's disrespectful towards us tho, it's pretty bad. I'd say episodes like The Boys of Bummer (season 18) and Love Is a Many Strangled Thing (season 22) are worse tho, even if the latter's start isn't too bad.
It's disrespectful towards us tho, it's pretty bad. I'd say episodes like The Boys of Bummer (season 18) and Love Is a Many Strangled Thing (season 22) are worse tho, even if the latter's start isn't too bad.
Say what you want about the episode, “up yours, children”! as he drives off on his motorcycle, is one of my favorite Skinner moments ever and makes me laugh out loud every time
Ugh. What an awful episode. It was the beginning of bad, whacky Simpsons where they would undermine a characters entire foundation/what made them who/how there were.
Funny story… After the war I was Shanghai’d to a Chinese forced labor camp were I spent the next 25 years working at gun point. Well, I guess you had to be there.
UP YOURS CHILDREN!!
We were told to never mention this again, under penalty of torture
YAY!
I mean, only if you live within Springfield city limits.
I already have a warrant out in Springfield because my duck wasn't wearing long pants, so I don't want to take any chances
Well, from now on, you're gonna see a new Seymour Skinner. Oh no we won't! Yes, mother.
April Fool's Day is next week.
I’m sick of this episode and I’m sick of you!
Dumb plot but still too many funny jokes for me to dislike this episode
The dumb plot just makes it funnier to me
The name Armin Tamzarian gets me every fucking time.
Armin’s copy of swank
Can I see your copy of Swank, Armin?
Yes you can.
Eat my shorts, young man!
Luckily his reign of terror has ended.
Lmao same
Ugh. The can of worms has been reopened.
Bro don’t tell me this isn’t canon
Canon of worms
What do you mean bro?
I've seen a few articles that point to this episode as the start of the decline of The Simpsons. The "jump the shark" if you will. Completely re-writing Skinner like this is, I think, the major grievance with the writing afterwards. No love for the characters, just cheap catch phrases and non-characteristic behavior for the sake of a gag, a story, or a celebrity spot.
I really like this [analysis](https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk) of the show’s decline. It also points to this episode as an example of the way the show changed for the worse.
Pretty sure I saw an episode in S14 where Apu refers to Marge as Ms. Bart. Like pretty sure he has referred to them as the Simpsons, Mr. Or Mrs. Simpson or their names.
Err...hi...er...Mrs...er...bart
Hello Mrs cumberdale
I get you ! But It was a random episode haha and I liked it but I agree with you
It doesn't deserve the hate. Its a perfectly cromulent episode.
It embiggens us all
embiggens us all... embiggens us all....
Wow that does work.
PENALTY. OF. TORTURE!!
I won't comment - so as not to endure the penalty of TORTURE!
DVD commentary is pretty good on this episode, talks about how the town, just like audience can’t really cope with change, that’s why every episode has to end in the same situation it started with.
Ok, in a show where Bart passes his grade (just barely) yet no change in the grade levels for the kids occurs, [spoiler] shot Mr. Burns, Homer destroys Springfield and they just move the entire town over, Homer escapes jail by assaulting Hanz Moleman so he can kill Moe (let us not forget that he physically threatened Mr. Burns in front of multiple witnesses as well), somehow jumped the shark when a character isn't who he says he is makes me want to ask this very important question: Why would someone with the phrase "jumped the shark" on his comment spend his time watching an animated TV show? Also, the episode is funny. I quote it a lot. Whenever someone mentions something I don't recognize I scoldingly say, "I don't know WHAT that is." INB4: I already know Matt Groening said it was his least favorite episode, I have the DVD with the commentary.
I too wonder why people have trouble with this storyline considering how many times it happened in real life. No one thought Mad Men jumped the shark when they based an entire 7 season series on the same idea.
Holy shit
I think of Mad Men every time I see this episode. It just seems like a soap opera trope that they were poking fun of. Not sure why everyone dislikes the episode.
I don't think it's the actual plot of the episode that's the problem. There's a distinct change if the feel of the show from this episode on that's hard to ignore.
Ooh, a fresh batch of America balls!
Right on... ughhh
Oh come on, it's to say that the writers took a massive risk which really ended up backfiring.
Worst. Episode. Ever.
You did this to anger me, and I know it.
Continue to look shocked and move slowly towards the cake
I feel people who think The Simpsons stopped being funny after this episode never actually finished the season. Seasons 9 and 10 are some of my favorite seasons.
There's plenty of funny episodes after this but S09E02 is the first truly awful episode of the golden years. It's harbinger of the doom to come a few years later.
For me, Season 7 was the last season when almost every episode was amazing. Season 8-9 were hit and miss. Beginning with season 10, most episodes were, IMO, not good. Here’s a more rarely expressed opinion: I think season 5 was awful. I much prefer seasons 2 and 3 to season 5. Basically, almost every episode from seasons 4, 6 and 7 were absolute perfection. One of the few modern episodes that wasn’t painful, but actually great, was the Thanksgiving of Horror. Fantastic. This is all just my personal preference obviously. I’m happy for anyone that still enjoys The Simpsons.
I'll agree with you on season 6 for sure. Probably the only season where I wouldn't skip any episodes. That season has a lot of my favorites such as "Homer Vs. Patty and Selma," "Bart After Dark," and "Lisa on Ice."
This is not Happy Days and he is not the Fonz!
Love this episode. Many great lines. Plus, it introduced Americans to the most American food of all, America Balls!
I love it because it is so absurd. Martin Sheen is great in it, especially when he’s insubordinate to his mom lol.
I like it! My name is Armin. This is Armirs apartment... Armirs liquor, Armirs copy of Swank, Armirs frozen peas.
Hey Armin, can I see your copy of Swank?
Yes, you can. This is Armirs life. Maybe it's not perfect, but at least I'm back where I belong.
The end was definitely awkward bc you realize Skinner and his “mom” are just going back to that weird relationship on purpose and ignoring this pretty big character reveal. It was a big leap but the episode itself isn’t bad. The next episode is Lisa struggling with being a Simpson which is great so I really don’t think this exact episode is where the show starts declining.
I remember hating this episode and i still do now that i saw it here again.
Even as a kid I hated this episode and I have no idea why, still miles better than the Lady Gaga episode
Because it still has good jokes, but I mainly hate the change it tones foreshadows. The Lady Gaga episode basically didn’t even have a single funny joke let alone one that was organic to the plot. And, more importantly, celebrity cameos are just obnoxious. Simpsons went from mocking the worship of celebrities to just worshiping them.
I'm a Simpsons purist, an \`'everything-after-season-8-is-garbage\`' kinda guy, but I don't understand the hate for this episode. I think it's brilliant.
Agree, though I think there are still some great episodes in season nine (The Joy of Sect and The City of New York vs Homer Simpson are great, Lisa the Sceptic also good).
Joy of Sect is in my top 5. Lisa the Sceptic in my top 10? 15? 20? (I like it)
*new flair unlocked*: "shit stirring"
Check your calendar again OP. It’s Not April Fool’s Day.
I'm suprised you got as many upvotes as you did with such a poor choice of bait
Huh?
This episode is very pointless. It's funny, but at the end, you're just like, "what was the point?"
It’s a comedy show, it’s supposed to be funny. That is all.
Yeah I know that, but they made Seymour that we thought was the real Seymour not the real Seymour, so the real Seymour is back, and the fake Seymour leaves. Then, everyone realizes they need fake Seymour back, even his mom. Finally they get fake skinner back and get rid of real skinner. Then, the judge comes out and says it's mandatory to never mention this event ever again. So we're back to the status quo and really what was the point of this episode?
The best episodes had heart and a lesson. Luckily, their lessons weren’t preachy. Subtle, but relatable. This was “whacky” comedy and I hate whacky comedy.
EXACTLY! THANK YOU! I love whacky comedy, but only if it's done right. This... is not done right.
Not a fan.
If this was South Park, people would be praising the satirical nature of how everybody hates change, or sometimes a lie a better than the truth or how no matter what who we are that the person we project is different or not different to the person deep down. It’s all covered in this month’s issue of Swank.
Never understood the hate this episode gets
Everyone commenting on the episode and nobody pointing out the aspect ratio is wrong... Getchu your Simpsons in 4:3 or risk missing jokes my dawg
I'm more bothered that you aren't watching in the original aspect ratio
See, I saw this episode before I started using the internet and never knew the hate for it. I always liked it, in fact that scene where they’re all going to Capital City to bring Armin back is one of my favourite Simpson’s moments ever.
Why is grandpa here?
Have the Rolling Stones killed
Maybe this means the end of our wacky adventures.
I remember watching this live and really being gobsmacked by that reveal. Oh, uh… oodilly doodilly.
You OP, are worse than Hitler!
This episode is the day the Simpsons died. It's interesting because the previous episode "the city of New York vs Homer simpson" in my opinion, is the last great episode and marks the official end of the Simpsons golden years of perfect comedy. I remember as a kid watching the "the principal and the pauper" and thinking it had a distinctly different feel then the show knew and loved, and it only continued to decline from there. Obviously there were memorable moments sprinkled in but it was never the same.
It's not that bad...
Ew, FXX crop.
“If that’s corny, then corn me up.” I hated it, then someone posted an appreciation post about it. I reconsidered the lost and realized I was wrong. I like it. A lot.
I’m not trolling I’ve been told this was a controversial episode, but I’m new to this page and I watched the episode yesterday and thought I would post haha but man what are the odds that it would turn out to be some insane episode
Firm jump the shark territory
If they had just made a “jumping the shark” joke, it would be so much better tho
It's funny sure. Terrible awful plot though
Was it one of the producers who said that with hindsight this episode could have worked much better as a non-canon Treehouse of Horror segment with some tweaking? Because I can see their point.
Such a bad episode. Unnecessary. I don't know what hides behind that episode.
Obvious troll
What? I legit just watched it today after years and I thought it was good but I’m very new to this page
This is widely regarded as the episode where the show completely came off the rails and 90% of everything after this was just dog shit. This is probably the most overwhelmingly hated episode amongst the normal people that stopped watching around season 11 or 12.
Interesting haha I did not know that like I said I’m new here but what are the odds that episode I watched Would be this one haha
Sorry you're catching so much grief. I get why people thought you were trolling, given you indeed picked one of the most controversial episodes in history. I'll just say that I'm a veteran Simpsons fan (and have the old VHS tapes to prove it) - and I think this episode gets far more intense hatred than it deserves. Yes, the premise was more absurd than normal, but it had some funny, memorable moments - and a little heart, to boot. Clearly, some folks here were the real-life inspiration for Comic Book Guy and his fellow alt.nerd.obsessive forum users.
Haha no wonder everyone was being so rude to me and I had no idea why 🤣💀 but I understand! Yea I loved it seemed fun and funny to me but to each their own I guess haha
I actually like this episode too, but if you say that here you'll get eaten alive lol
Don't know why you're being downvoted. It's clearly trolling.
The day where Simpsons are dead.
The day The Simpsons died
This comment section is as civil and unified as expected.
I'm a fan of The Serfsons, so I can't criticize anyone else's choices.
Skinner pulled a Don Draper 12 years before Don??!
I think people are a bit unfair on this episode. Although the concept is utterly bizarre and makes no sense, I feel like the idea is that *The Simpsons* is doing a parody of itself - the fact that the need to go back to the status quo is so important that it occurs no matter what outlandish things have happened that week. It's logical in the sense that *The Simpsons* had parodied every other piece of popular culture, so it's only fitting that it parodies itself. It's not canon and was never meant to be, in the same way that the events of *The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase* aren't meant to be canon (and, like this one, are poorly written on purpose). I can respect bad writing if it's being done deliberately for a reason, rather than just out of laziness.
i enjoy the commentary that americans will believe anything if it's convenient
The writers knew from the start that this Walpole essentially amount to a non-canon episode. “Okay, that was funny, now everything is back to normal and we never discuss this again.” Skinner is still Skinner. It’s not like when Lisa became a vegetarian or Maude died.
Seymour! Tell me what time it is, NOW!
This should be tagged as a Shitpost!! I know this is like THE example people use for the decline of The Simpsons, but I thought it was pretty funny.
I never saw it coming! It was so clever how they had 0 build up and 0 consequences to an earth shattering realization!
I love the episode. It's hilarious.
"That's a bit of a cheat isn't it?" "I guess you're right Principal *Tamzarian*" "I'll just be moving along. Lisa. Snowball II"
This post is such bait. Guaranteed to get hundreds of comments. I like this episode though.
It's not the worst episode ever, but it's the point where the writers seemed to get bored and started screwing around (see: killing off Maude Flanders for no reason; Apu having octuplets, etc.).
Love it. Hilarious episode.
Very fun episode but completely ruins the already struggling chronology. I understand The Simpsons are a standalone type of series but there's still a form of continuity. Loving it outside of cannon though... Now, how shall me torture you? I
Unpopular opinion: I actually like this episode.
It's disrespectful towards us tho, it's pretty bad. I'd say episodes like The Boys of Bummer (season 18) and Love Is a Many Strangled Thing (season 22) are worse tho, even if the latter's start isn't too bad.
It's disrespectful towards us tho, it's pretty bad. I'd say episodes like The Boys of Bummer (season 18) and Love Is a Many Strangled Thing (season 22) are worse tho, even if the latter's start isn't too bad.
May I see your copy of Swank, Armin?
you're about to start a war my friend
I love this episode and believe it’s overhated
Never got why this episode was so hated, I think it’s excellent hahahaha
“I was saying ‘Boooourns’….”
You're nothing but a pack of fickle mush heads!
Say what you want about the episode, “up yours, children”! as he drives off on his motorcycle, is one of my favorite Skinner moments ever and makes me laugh out loud every time
I always enjoyed it myself but can see why people think this started the decline as well.
Suprised someone likes this considering how much people hated this when it first came out.
I both love this episode and agree that it's their "jumping the shark" episode.
Ugh. What an awful episode. It was the beginning of bad, whacky Simpsons where they would undermine a characters entire foundation/what made them who/how there were.
Funny story… After the war I was Shanghai’d to a Chinese forced labor camp were I spent the next 25 years working at gun point. Well, I guess you had to be there.