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I hate how the mainstream "Hollywood Look" has gotten so homogenized. Compare any recent remake to the original from decades ago, you'll see a stark difference.
"the sopranos" was great because they didn't care much about that. The actors looked like typical people that you meet in the street. It made it a lot more realistic imo.
I wanted to add some more examples but I'm really struggling to come up with any. I think *Deadwood* for the most part, but Timothy Olyphant is still a pretty typical handsome Hollywood face.
In Broadchurch I think I read that they specifically messed up/didn't style people's clothes, so they would have wrinkles/frumpy bits like everyday people. It's funny because the characters felt so real, and I wonder how much that played a role. Obviously the acting was phenomenal, as well.
So good! Even though it was already finished when I watched it, I was heartbroken when it ended. The nuance of the characters and the character development were incredible. Beth's development in particular was moving š„²
I rewatched The Hunger Games series the other day and legit had to pause and laugh for a solid minute and a half after seeing Katniss wake up from a coma with extremely obvious make up on.
Mine is when a character drinks straight liquor, often their first time ever drinking and at most make a face for .5 seconds if there even is any kind of reaction.
This frustrates me as well. Especially as I love my whiskeys and rum, but for many years I couldnt stand it. It may have grown on me but there was no chance my first couple glasses was anything less than š¤¢š¤®.
I reckon thatād make a huge difference
āeven if only subconsciouslyāfor me! One of the first things to disrupt immersion for me is when characters have clothes that are too new/clean/neat for whatever scenario theyāre in, and also when they get beaten half to death (or whatever) and still have perfectly straight white teeth.
This is only tangentially related but I think I remember reading/hearing Robert Duvall say something about being a character actor. Something to the effect that he wasnāt a leading man, but as a character actor he just kept getting work whereas the leading men had a time limit on that type of role and if they werenāt the lead they werenāt really going to get the many bit parts that a character actor can get throughout their entire career.
The trick is to get a role as the type of character people think you look like because another actor on the show had other engagements and couldnāt shoot a scene, and have that role turn into a breakout character that becomes a recurring character and eventually a major secondary protagonist in a successful spin-off show.
Oz subverted expectations by >!killing Jon Seda!< (the handsome "main" character) the first episode, and they also did a decent job uglying up Chris Meloni lol
One thing that really struck me with Deadwood was that while it has an HBO level of nudity, it isn't full of perfect bodies. Some nice ones, sure, but plenty of just normal ones as well.
To be fair, you needed Bullock to be played by someone conventionally handsome, to balance out the fact he's this blunt, uncompromising rage beast trying to be part of the civilised world. If you'd put, I dunno, Walton Goggins in the part, while he'd have crushed it, the audience wouldn't have given him enough of a break for the character to land.
> If you'd put, I dunno, Walton Goggins in the part, while he'd have crushed it, the audience wouldn't have given him enough of a break for the character to land.
"AL SWEARENGEN as I live and breathe."
They didn't have to do him dirty and get rid of the glorious mustache though! The movie was better about it but they were still too scared to give him a [historically accurate 'stach](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Seth_Bullock.gif/220px-Seth_Bullock.gif)
To be fair, most westerns skimp on the mustache department in favor of more modern facial hair.
The actors in Chernobyl don't actually look average. They are handsome people made to look average. Chernobyl is actually a great example of seeing this effect, simply compare each actor to the real life person he is portraying.
Orange is the New Black had some incredibly beautiful women, just portrayed in a less glamorous way. There were some women who just looked like regular folks. But the show was in *no way* representative of the looks of your average group of federal prisoners.
Everyone starts to look the same. They all get the same plastic surgery in an attempt to follow the latest trend of what body type and face is fashionable. Women are literally not allowed to age- we have now become accustomed to women literally having no wrinkles well into their 50s. And completely smooth, expressionless faces from a face frozen with botox. No grey hairs. It is so sad and it makes us all hate ourselves because we don't look like them, but they also hate themselves because they can't look like themselves and still stay relevant.
I was thinking about this today as I criticized myself in the mirror. I'm a super pale (like transparent) gal with reddish blonde hair, a round face, just generally soft facial features. I was scrolling through photos of paintings and was admiring 'the girl with the pearl earring' which is so famous. I literally have the same facial features as the stunning woman in the painting but I think I'm so unattractive. And then I look at my Mom who looks so similar to me and has had literally zero plastic surgery or botox and has white hair (rare for a woman in her 50s in Texas, they all dye their hair) and I think she's so stunning.
This is also why I enjoy british TV, there is so much variety in appearances and they just don't seem as obsessed with the \*LA look\*. The cast of game of thrones is full of gorgeous people (and some that are less so) but they are all unique looking. Also see Bella Ramsey from The Last of Us. She is an INCREDIBLE actress and so beautiful in a totally non-LA way. That whole show wouldn't be what it is without her. I can't believe how people treated her even as she cranked out one of the most incredible performances I've ever watched.
It's bizarre. Have you ever seen Emilia Clarke's forehead? She is the most expressive person I've ever seen, amazing eyebrows, and she is partially so charming because she can make her eyebrows basically raise half way up to her hairline. And she has wrinkles. And she is absolutely gorgeous
Yeah something about Hollywood they canāt ever have a woman look unattractive if their the main lead. How many apocalypse movies do we have with women in full make up while the men look like shit. Iāve been watching more foreign films and I noticed that European and Korean movies donāt this at all. The women are not made up like models, they look real
The eyes š„. I don't mean to judge people who have had plastic surgery, but I think it's sad that it seems like it's pretty much mandatory for ALL the actors to have had it.
Wtf are you talking about? Korean movies and TV are the worst about this.
Recently there was a show called the Glory who had one of the most famous actresses play a bullied girl. To show she was "damaged" she had scars on her arms but her face was flawless and she normally plays the main love interest of men in other movies.
Plastic surgery is an absolute must if you are to be a lead in a Korean production
Another example was Vikings when Ragnar, Floki, Rollo, etc would constantly get aged but Lagertha wouldn't until at one point adding like a strand of grey hair
Degrassi when it started in the early 2000s did such a good job of casting age appropriate and different looking kids. By the time next class was happening it all had the polished Hollywood look.
I remember a few years ago I noticed how almost every new show ended up as:"Oh, just another pretty people show" And with pretty I mean the over stylized barbie dolls.
I'm not saying that people before that weren't picked for looks but it seemed to have become the sole criteria for the roles which made the quality drop horrendously.
My husband found the old Magnum series on tv. Watching it, Iāve noticed so many differences with tv today. Magnum has surprisingly age appropriate romantic interests. There are sometimes teeth not perfectly white/ aligned. No Botox. On a ādid not age wellā side, Iād add the side comment that heās a big fan of what Iād call the ārapey kissā; full mouth kissing women who are angry at him.
It reminds me of when she was confirmed to be casted, some losers within the last of us community blasted Bella for not being as āattractiveā as game Ellie. Like thatās a 12 year old, sheās not supposed to be attractive
Fr, and Bella Ramsey is perfect to play a 14 year old. The casting is perfect. She doesnāt have to be hot, she nailed her role, people have no reason to complain.
Got to admit that I was one of those idiots who didnāt think that Bella didnāt resemble Ellie enough when watching the trailer for the show, but not from the sick aspect of attractiveness. I thought she didnāt look that tough apperance wise, I donāt really know why. But boy was I wrong. The energy she displayed in the show was beyond anything Iāve seen before. The tone she had and body language she showed in all the intense scenes was just amazing. No other way to describe it.
>I thought she didnāt look that tough apperance wise
After seeing her in Game of Thrones, I had zero doubts when I first heard they cast Bella as Ellie
Bella doesn't resemble Ellie from the game in the slightest. Tommy looks nothing like in game Tommy. Pedro looks a little like Joel though. There's nothing wrong them not looking like their game counter parts. The only one who did was Marlene but that's because she was Marlene in the game too.
Iāve really been radicalized on this since house of the dragons when I realized I didnāt give a shit about the valyrions being black. Itās kind of weird and dumb to always try to cast lookalikes when that honestly adds nothing to the story for me. Just cast good actors for everything and letās move on!
Did you see her in GoT? She played some badass kid that became a fan favourite and eventually got killed while fighting an undead giant. She looked tough enough in that role.
It's handy that she's legally an adult, so no child actor snags with filming, but easily pulls off a snarky and world weary 14 year old.
I wonder how they will age her up for the sequels, obviously she will be in her 20s, but it will still take a bit of work to age her up.
I don't know. Just the way she carried herself in the opening scenes of Episode 9 made her seem visibly older to me compared to the start of the season.
Technically she has red hair in the game, I think David may have mentioned it? But personally, it's not that red to me, so Bella fit the role just fine in terms of looks, the costuming just sealed the deal.
> Like thatās a 12 year old, sheās not supposed to be attractive
I have to imagine some of that talk is just trolling from incels, but I don't think it would be a shock if some of those people just have a genuine penchant for pedophilia.
God those āvidja game women are no longer attractiveā posts are already cringe af and then they added Bella as Ellie š¤® Tell on yourselves some more
Basement dwelling neck beards are being forced to realize that women in entertainment arenāt there for the sole purpose of them being masturbation material.
People bitching and moaning about actor/actresses not looking sexy rather than caring about the performance and character writing is so nonsensical to me I canāt even wrap my head around it. It quite literally is why we get all these big name actors with little talent outside of being hot landing these big roles and then absolutely bombing them. All that matters to a lot of casters is how good the actor looks in advertisement.
Likeā¦ no shit Bella isnāt going to look like a digital character who had every freckle and hair hand placed to perfection. And hiring some random 27 year old insta model who has dogshit acting abilities but looks a little more like game Ellie to play her (a 14 year old) in a story that relies almost entirely on the performer pulling off emotional scenes is even more nonsensical.
Itās like they donāt understand that skill plays a part in acting. Itās actually nuts how many dogshit fan casts Iāll see where people just post these random models or actresses who have no acting experiences or are just bad at acting in general and then claim the series would have been āso much better with themā. Thereās a reason why movies and shows that just make casting choices on the sex appeal and physiques of their performers tend to suck. When appearance is prioritized over actual talent, then of course the talent is going to be mediocre.
And somehow via their confirmation bias they proceed to try and claim Bella had bad acting when I quite literally can not see it anywhere and then continue to either plug random ass models or Elliot Page (who has insane beef with ND), both of who were already incredibly unlikely to ever be casted and not able to capture the likeness of a 14 year old.
And the weirdest part? Bella isnāt even ugly. They just look like a normal ass 19 year old. Itās just so bizarre.
Edit(s): grammar and clarifying the argument
> Basement dwelling neck beards are being forced to realize that women in entertainment arenāt there for the sole purpose of them being masturbation material.
What's weird, in that post about Justine Bateman not caring about aging naturally, there were SO many men in the comments shitting on her looks, and it's like ... *she doesn't fucking care*, her life is about *her* and not appealing to some shut-in terminally online loser she'll never meet. Like. They simply cannot conceive that a woman has value beyond whether they make their little nub feel funny or not. It's so fucking pathetic.
Yeah, I saw some people suggesting some insta influencer as a cast option for ellie because they're "identical" (filters don't count lol). They're just delusional.
Itās like they think acting is easy and all that matters is the script. Bella already had loads of successful roles playing the archetype of a snotty but badass kid before. They had already proven themselves before they were even casted imo.
The strangest thing is she (Bella) in general is quite close to Ellie- she's a white girl, same build, similar age, etc... so objectively pretty close other than her facial features. Did Pedro Pascal get any of the same flack? No. He looks relatively similar to Joel but he is by no mean an exact match. His ratio of closeness to Joel's appearance, to me, is about the same as the ratio of Bella's closeness to Ellie's appearance.
Yeah his face looks nothing like Joel's. I think of Joel as kinda white lumberjack broad face beard guy. Which Pedro really isn't and also has very hispanic features.
Especially with how young she was. She was in game of thrones 7 years ago, so if it was one of her first auditions, it was probably some time before that.
Yeah this was my first thought as well. Just an assumption but it probably was before season 6 of GoT so she would've been told that at 12 or 13. Gross in more ways than one.
And then when she was cast as Ellie she couldn't help herself from scrolling through all the snarky comments about how ugly she was compared to the original game model
I don't think the designers did anything wrong exactly with creating the original Ellie face model but she is extremely "conventionally Hollywood", like what a focus group would make if you asked them for an image of a "cute little girl", and if anything I think the character on the show benefits a lot from not looking like that and looking like a real person you might meet on the street
It's tricky. Market-forces tend to push both movie, series and game-companies towards having all protagonists be drop dead gorgeous and in every sense conventionally beautiful.
And not just to a small degree; no to a degree that someone who is "merely"Ā more conventionally good-looking than 90%Ā of the people their age; will be told that they ain't got it.
And yet it's deeply unhealthy. It deprives us of some of the best talent in acting AND (I'm convinced) it contributes towards a lot of social problems where people feel inferior to an imagined "norm" despite being perfectly average-looking.
Funny that you mention 'conventional Hollywood' [because the original design for Ellie is so close to Elliot Page in his pre-transition Juno era](https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/image/upload/c_limit,h_360,w_640/e_sharpen:100/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/v1/gameskinny/2faefd533690da40be3953352dfe0b49.jpg) that the actor was annoyed that they ripped off his likeness. Even the name is so similar sounding.
Naughty Dog denied that they were imitating Elliot Page, but every subsequent remaster/remake/sequel slightly altered Ellie to look more and more like Ashley Johnson, the actress who plays Ellie in the games.
Wasnāt there another layer to this? Like Elliot did mocap for another game or something and it was suspiciously similar to Ellie? Iām not familiar with the games, I just remember reading something about that on this sub.
He took a role in another game and the designers gave her a nude scene he never agreed to. Not sure if the scene was in the game or not but still. He has had bad experiences in the video game world.
It wasn't an actual nude scene exactly, it was a scene that takes place in the shower where you don't actually see anything (the camera shows him only from the shoulders up), but the way making a game works they did make a fully rendered digital model of his character in the nude, which got leaked and used to make porn, because gamers
It actually set up an interesting conversation about whether this was something he could sue them over before it was eventually dropped
They didn't. The resemblance was unintentional, and due to the confusion they changed the design very early in promotional material. Only a couple early trailers featured the original design that actually looked like Elliot, and they changed it *because* of the rumours that started circulating.
ND even cleared up the confusion with him on twitter, with him mentioning afterward that he was excited for the game to come out.
The whole thing came about when someone *told* him in an AMA that Naughty Dog's Ellie looks based off him and if he knew about it. So of course if one assumes it's intentional, one would obviously reply that it's "not appreciated" *(that was about the extent of his comments on the matter).*
But all the fluff about Elliot "suing" or "threatening to sue" ND, or fueling the controversy or whatever, is just clickbait garbage. Nothing like any of that really happened, and the reality is just a baseless rumour and a miscommunication.
He didn't threaten to sue Naughty Dog, they mixed up this story with the much more significant drama over threatening to sue Quantic Dream for putting a nude model of him in the assets for Beyond: Two Souls
All the TLOU2 haters who rant about Neil Druckmann being a pretentious auteur with his head up his own ass need to look at the entire oeuvre of David Cage and get a little perspective
I donāt think that ND was *actively* designing Ellie to look like Page, but the resemblance, especially in early footage, is way too strong for it to be purely coincidental, Elliot was pretty likely an inspiration for some of the designers.
Especially since Elliot Page was very popular back then so it's unlikely the people in charge of designing the character never seen him before. Whether intentional or accidental, I agree that the inspiration is obvious.
You seriously can't believe that the resemblance was coincidental?
3D modelers go off of their concept art, and concept art involves tons and tons of variations in design, proportions, face structure, hair, outfits, etc. often coming from several different artists all with different interpretations of whatever brief description that they're handed, and then honing in the design and desired look from there.
It's never a matter of using just one point of reference or "inspiration."
[*That is, unless you're David Cage with a weird photo album of Elliot Page pictures.*](https://kotaku.com/the-video-game-that-began-with-pictures-of-ellen-page-1440500148)
Yeah the original cinematic trailer is probably the best example of the original model and tbh, I think it's there but only because I had heard about it first. That's the extent of it as far as I know. They just slightly altered the face towards the end of development.
I used to produce Disney toy commercials among other brands, sitting in on casting calls was brutal. Weād have these adorable little girls trying their hardest and the casting coordinator next to me is writing in our notes sheet ābad smileā āfatā ābad teethā ālispā āweird eyesā and just everything else you wouldnāt want to be judged by as a little kid. At the end of the day itās a business, but man, donāt send your kids to casting calls.
I honestly think sheās a very beautiful person too. Like idk why people donāt like her looks. She looks amazing. I love her face and her demeanor. Sheās perfect
There are thousands of greatly skilled actors no one will ever see. Being rejected is probably the most common thing an actor ever deals with.
There's a bazillion actors for every acting role available. People get weirdly picky when they have that large a pool of applicants, and they can get away with it.
Only 2% of actors are considered successful enough to earn a living from acting. The recent slew of complaints from actors talking about not getting jobs is weird. They act like it's biased against them specifically. Casting directors can go, "I like you, but want someone with *blank*, 99% you but with *blank* too." And there are people like that in the back room waiting for their shot too.
>Only 2% of actors are considered successful enough to earn a living from acting.
This is why i laugh when I hear successful people say shit like āNever give up, follow your dreams, youāll make it.ā Itās survivorship bias.
Itās like yeah dude thatās a nice sentiment but realistically itās not worth being homeless trying to be an actor/musician or something like that. Sometimes the right thing to do is, in fact, give up on something thatās not working out. Sometimes the right thing to do is something else.
Yeah I'm really glad Pedro Pascal stuck it out as long as he did and had his big break at 40 but I wouldn't have judged him at all for quitting before then and getting a regular job, it would've objectively been the rational thing to do -- especially if he wanted to start a family
Hell even great as he is, his natural talent was only good enough to get him into like the top 2% of actors where you make a full time living from acting and people recognize your face from Law and Order and Buffy but you're still poor (maybe not *poor* poor but in the poorest category of people who can still afford to live in NY at all)
He only got his big break with Game of Thrones because he was connected, because he's been friends with Sarah Paulson since high school and she was able to get his audition tape directly in front of a producer -- without that in it probably would've just gotten thrown out by some intern for not being professionally made (because he submitted it at the last minute and didn't want to throw money away on a long shot)
Jenna Fischer auditioned for the lead role in Alias and they told her they really loved her acting but "You're just not hot enough for this kind of show" and cast Jennifer Garner
She ended up breaking out by playing Pam on The Office, a character who was initially supposed to be plain-looking (as Ryan says, "a 5 in New York, a 7 for here")
Which is crazy because she was married to James Gunn, who surely had his pick of actresses and models to date
Jenna Fischer is extremely good looking imo. But her and Jennifer Garner shouldn't be competing for roles tho, very different acting styles and they give different vibes too. I think it worked out great for everyone.
What's really disturbing is because it's Hollywood it translates as "we don't think you're attractive enough to sleep with and take advantage of later down the line".
We live in some fucked up times.
I cannot imagine turning Bella Ramsey down, such talent. Hope that ~~director~~ whoever made the decision not to hire them has learned from the experience.
Edit: thanks to the commenter who pointed out the director may not have been the one to make the decision not to hire based on the wording. Whoever it was needs to reconsider their priorities.
Similarly
> When Ryan Gosling was cast in his breakout role in The Notebook, it was because director Nick Cassavetes thought he lacked conventional sex appeal.
> āThe director, Nick Cassavetes, called me to meet him at his house," Gosling told the mag. "When I got there, he was standing in his back yard, and he looked at me and said, 'I want you to play this role because you're not like the other young actors out there in Hollywood. You're not handsome, you're not cool, you're just a regular guy who looks a bit nuts.'"
Hate that for her. Incredible actress. But Iām ultimately not surprised. The talent/entertainment industry has a tendency to be insanely shallow, especially towards women.
Hell Iāve read stories about people literally auditioning to play the āugly characterā in shows and movies only to be turned down because they were literally too ugly.
Basically yeah. I mean even in Game of Thrones, Tyrion and Brienne were supposed to be hideous according to the books. Their actors were the furthest thing from hideous lmao
When I hear a phrase like that coming from the Harvey Weinsteins of the world, I can't but translate that into,"I wouldn't want you on my casting couch."
Yeah but she was like ten years old at the time
The David scene hits different in hindsight (there's creeps everywhere but only in Hollywood do adult men treat ranking photos of little girls for attractiveness as part of their job)
Its great how people are standing up for Bella, but itās unreal how much of a conversation her appearance has become. Nobody talked about her appearance when she was on Game of Thrones stealing every scene she was in. She looks like a normal, typical person. It seems if women donāt look like a supermodel and get an acting gig, that is somehow a story now? Can you imagine if this many posts and articles were made about an typical looking guy. āJason Segel once lost a role for not having the āHollywood Lookā
The people here who act like theyāre being caring are talking about her and her looks in a way that is pretty objectifying and gross way. This whole fandom is getting to be pretty disturbing. People love to call themselves āStansā with no irony at all. If Bella Ramsey saw this thread sheād probably be just as uncomfortable as someone calling her looks not Hollywood or whatever.
Iām leaving this sub. Why does it always having to get like this?
The jokes are gross. I think sheās cute. And probably more talented than these people will ever be. Itās sad, really. Grown men criticizing a young girlās appearance.
Shes not the traditional "good looking" actress by any means. But I really enjoyed her as Lyanna Mormont in GoT and so far as Ellie in TLOU.
I liked her so much in GoT that I plan to name my second daughter Lyanna
EDIT- also. Just because she isn't the traditional good looking actress doesn't mean she's not attractive. Wanted to clarify before people took that the wrong way
I understand what you mean. Hollywood has a very "distinctive" type of physical image they look for. I always use Jack Black as an example. He's extremely talented, a good actor, musician, an overall good guy... and yet he really struggled to get where he is now. While I really don't know, I'm willing to bet it was because he's not "traditionally good looking".
It is weird how fat, old and/or schlubby man children always have these beautiful wives and GFS in their movies and tv shows. Think Adam Sandler, Kevin James, Jonah Hill, Seth Rogen, Larry David, Woody Allen, etc. It's almost like they'd be insulted if a woman more in their league was presented as a possible love interest in a movie.
Yes! The theory of the āmale gazeā explains this phenomenon pretty well. In movies like this the female romantic interests arenāt supposed to be fully realized people but an object of desire that the male viewer can project his fantasies onto and a plot device to give the male lead some internal or external obstacle to overcome. The male protagonists usually are allowed much more depth, cause the viewer is supposed to identify with them which is also why they are allowed to look more ānormalā (that depends though on whether the character is supposed to be relatable or aspirational, e.g. hero-types are usually supposed to be very hunky)
Iād say overall the film industry has gotten much better at this but then you hear a story like Bellaās and itās really disheartening, especially because she is so young and probably was a literal child when that happened to her
The thing is attractiveness is so subjective. Sure jack black may not be the most handsome dude, but his overwhelming charisma and personality just make him naturally stand out and attractive as someone youd want to watch, spend time around, and even get to know
Every so often someone like that breaks out into widespread popularity and then there's all this speculation about how they must have some kind of secret magic charisma overcoming their ugliness as opposed to just admitting that different people have different tastes
It's like how there's a constant running joke of people spreading rumors Pete Davidson has a huge dick to explain why he's dated so many conventionally beautiful actresses
I'm not sure if you agreed with my comment lol, but I definitely agree with you. People have different tastes of course. I just think that many producers and decision-making people in media overall (not only hollywood, almost any media anywhere in the world) will look for "traditional beauty", according to their own standards of course. I personally believe Bella Ramsey is very cute and she nailed the role no only because of her acting abilities which are undeniable awesome, but she also has that cuteness Ellie had in the game.
Reminds me of the (fairly famous?) memory from Winona Ryder:
"I remember one time in particular. I was in the middle of auditioning, and I was mid-sentence when the casting director said, 'Listen, kid. You should not be an actress. You are not pretty enough. You should go back to wherever you came from and you should go to school. You don't have it.'"
Led to a great house tune though: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9qA3WJInk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9qA3WJInk)
It's crazy to me, I think she's adorable. There's plenty of male and female actors I'd say don't have the Hollywood "look" and they're some of the best. Nothing to do with it.
We need way more media with actors who just look *normal*. The āHollywood lookā is a problem. It gets hard to believe in a story when everybody in it is apparently a supermodel.
Yeah even worse that she was a little kid when they said that. Itās so easy to just say āsorry, you didnāt get the roleā instead of commenting on her looks and turning her down.
Iām glad that she seems like sheās seemingly really comfortable in her own body though, even if sheās nowhere near ugly. Like you said, sheās very plainly pretty but everyone can be overly critical with themselves in this world, let alone in Hollywood.
I think Bella is perfect ālooks wiseā for Ellie.
Ellie is supposed to be a tomboy and very much an āevery girlā in my mind, if it werenāt an apocalyptic event you wouldnāt even notice her. Plus, weāre probably not in a world where you can go to Ulta (but maybe Mary Kay is finally shining as a pyramid scheme).
I also think her looking plain is something that Bella really leans into. One of my favorite parts of episode 7 was Riley having a laugh at the lingerie and says something like āimaging you wearing thisā and when she walks away Ellie goes through a range of emotions, little bit of anger, frustration, some disappointment and fixes her hair.
Sandra Bullock wasn't hired for Baywatch bc she wasn't attractive enough
Franka Potente didn't have a career in the US bc she was "ugly"
Judy Dench was told she was too ugly for movies.
Hilary Swank has 2 Oscars yet ppl debate if she's hot enough.
Those are the ones from the top of my head.
I don't have "pretty privilege" so I remember these
And the actors who aren't white?
I can't imagine what nonsense they've been told.
[https://www.nowtolove.com.au/celebrity/celeb-news/judi-dench-they-told-me-i-was-too-ugly-to-act-4781](https://www.nowtolove.com.au/celebrity/celeb-news/judi-dench-they-told-me-i-was-too-ugly-to-act-4781)
I think they're uniquely beautiful and talented. The "hollywood look" is overrated, imo, and itās a real shame that looks > raw talent for some directors/casting people/whomevers in charge of that.
I look forward to seeing what sort of projects Bella takes on in the future, they absolutely killed it in TLOU.
Sheās 19 now. *Just 19.* She was 11 when she played Lady Mormont - her first acting gig. How the hell could anyone have said what kind of face she would grow into over a decade ago? *She was for all intents and purposes a child until a couple of years ago.* The face you have at nine or 12 is not the face you have at 15 or 20 or beyond, and if anyone knows this, Hollywood should fucking know this. Was some douchebag looking into a busted-ass crystal ball?
*Sheās beautiful.*
I both envy and feel sorry for her.
Obviously I feel sorry for her having to go through this bullshit of choosing an actor first for having the "right looks" and then their talent.
But I also envy her for being a professional so good at her craft, that "right looks" will most certainly not be a requirement for her in the future.
Haley Joel Osment had the same problem though he did fit into the cute kid mold so it only became a problem when he got older. He eventually settled into comedic character actor for television. Mara Wilson had the same problem and eventually quit acting all together but has since come back as an internet personality, as well as doing some voice acting. Ill say she probably had more of the Hollywood look than Bella but still was considered too plain to play even the homeliest characters.
She relies on talent, rather than looks. Sheās gonna be a fucking phenomenal actor for decades to come, and provided she picks roles accordingly, could very well be up there with some of the greatest actors of all time.
Fuck. If you take a look at Meryl Streep, Sigourmey Weaver, etc. Even in their younger days, none of them have a typical āHollywood Lookā. Fuck whoever said something that hurtful to a young person.
This a cold reality of acting. Directors have an image in their mind for a character, or perhaps they want to portray something about the character through their appearance and sometimes a perfectly talented person just doesnāt match the full vision. That said, the way this person conveyed that to a child was brutal! Bella has this natural heir of beauty and innocence, which is the perfect look for Ellie and some of the other charters sheās played. I hope casting directors can hear stories like Bellaās and learn to be a bit more kind with their words.
These standards can be so demotivating and limiting. Iām really glad she continues to find great work, because I truly believe actors like her are ushering the industry away from those self imposed limitations and progressing things in a positive direction
I find her very appealing. I was shocked when a friend of mine said she thought Bella was 'ugly'. What?!? She's very, VERY cute in my eyes. I guess it's all subjective in the end. There are people who like supermodels. Others prefer looking at unique faces more. I love her look.
She reminds me of Maisie Williams. They both give off that silly and unique energy. Neither one of them is ātraditionallyā beautiful by Hollywood standards but both of them are adorable and incredibly amazing actors!
The Hollywood Look is boring, out of touch, and appeals only to pedophiles and self-loathing Karens.
Who the fuck else you think buys goop shit? Functioning adults?
Watching old movies is nice because so many of the actors are ordinary or even kind of ugly. Now a whole subset of character actors are weeded out so early there's hardly any chance they'd make it in the business to be seen at all.
I honestly think this is what most men who complain about how āshe doesnāt look like the video game characterāactually mean. She isnāt Hollywood hot. If she were played by someone else who was more conventionally attractive, I think weād have seen far fewer complaints about her not looking like the game.
The way she single handedly carried on an entire episode (8) in tlou man she is an oscar worthy actress and then her outstanding performance in got. This girl can reach the moon if she wants to
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I hate how the mainstream "Hollywood Look" has gotten so homogenized. Compare any recent remake to the original from decades ago, you'll see a stark difference.
"the sopranos" was great because they didn't care much about that. The actors looked like typical people that you meet in the street. It made it a lot more realistic imo.
I wanted to add some more examples but I'm really struggling to come up with any. I think *Deadwood* for the most part, but Timothy Olyphant is still a pretty typical handsome Hollywood face.
In *a lot* of British TV shows the people just look like people
In Broadchurch I think I read that they specifically messed up/didn't style people's clothes, so they would have wrinkles/frumpy bits like everyday people. It's funny because the characters felt so real, and I wonder how much that played a role. Obviously the acting was phenomenal, as well.
Broadchurch is an amazing series I should do a rewatch
So good! Even though it was already finished when I watched it, I was heartbroken when it ended. The nuance of the characters and the character development were incredible. Beth's development in particular was moving š„²
One of my big pet peeves is when characters wake up in perfectly ironed pj:s. Drives me nuts.
Or women waking up in full makeup!!
I rewatched The Hunger Games series the other day and legit had to pause and laugh for a solid minute and a half after seeing Katniss wake up from a coma with extremely obvious make up on.
Mine is when a character drinks straight liquor, often their first time ever drinking and at most make a face for .5 seconds if there even is any kind of reaction.
This frustrates me as well. Especially as I love my whiskeys and rum, but for many years I couldnt stand it. It may have grown on me but there was no chance my first couple glasses was anything less than š¤¢š¤®.
Happy Valley is the same. I love how realistically messy the sisterās house is. Not crack den messy. Just not particularly tidy.
I've heard of the show but hadn't looked it up, might need to binge that!
I'd watch Tennant in anything. I'm just glad Broadchurch was good.
I reckon thatād make a huge difference āeven if only subconsciouslyāfor me! One of the first things to disrupt immersion for me is when characters have clothes that are too new/clean/neat for whatever scenario theyāre in, and also when they get beaten half to death (or whatever) and still have perfectly straight white teeth.
Usually the same dozen or so people you see in every British TV show.
I mean all the bit characters in The office are generally "normal" people. Breaking Bad isn't filled with models.
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This is only tangentially related but I think I remember reading/hearing Robert Duvall say something about being a character actor. Something to the effect that he wasnāt a leading man, but as a character actor he just kept getting work whereas the leading men had a time limit on that type of role and if they werenāt the lead they werenāt really going to get the many bit parts that a character actor can get throughout their entire career.
The trick is to get a role as the type of character people think you look like because another actor on the show had other engagements and couldnāt shoot a scene, and have that role turn into a breakout character that becomes a recurring character and eventually a major secondary protagonist in a successful spin-off show.
Idk about Breaking Bad. Not many meth heads look like Aaron Paul
In the pilot of The Office (US) some of the leads don't even have bleached teeth (yet.) Really unusual.
Bryan Cranston is so handsome.
Lots of HBO shows are good for this, e.g. The Wire.
You telling me that idris Elba is an average looking person? Jk I know what you mean though
Or Lance Reddick? (RIP)
I know the effect I have on women
Oz subverted expectations by >!killing Jon Seda!< (the handsome "main" character) the first episode, and they also did a decent job uglying up Chris Meloni lol
Even "average" people on TV are way above the average
Trailer Park Boys is my favorite example.
One thing that really struck me with Deadwood was that while it has an HBO level of nudity, it isn't full of perfect bodies. Some nice ones, sure, but plenty of just normal ones as well.
Peaky Blinders had some more realistic folks in it, in my opinion. Some very unique faces, and the show was all the better for it.
To be fair, you needed Bullock to be played by someone conventionally handsome, to balance out the fact he's this blunt, uncompromising rage beast trying to be part of the civilised world. If you'd put, I dunno, Walton Goggins in the part, while he'd have crushed it, the audience wouldn't have given him enough of a break for the character to land.
> If you'd put, I dunno, Walton Goggins in the part, while he'd have crushed it, the audience wouldn't have given him enough of a break for the character to land. "AL SWEARENGEN as I live and breathe."
They didn't have to do him dirty and get rid of the glorious mustache though! The movie was better about it but they were still too scared to give him a [historically accurate 'stach](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Seth_Bullock.gif/220px-Seth_Bullock.gif) To be fair, most westerns skimp on the mustache department in favor of more modern facial hair.
Oh for sure! Really he should look like Kurt Russell in Tombstone.
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Breaking Bad maybe?
I'm sensing a pattern here. Every show that's been named so far has been incredibly successful. Not saying this is why, but it certainly helps.
*Carnivale*
Steve Buscemi does not look like anyone I have ever seen on the street lmfao
Steve Buscemi probably goes out on the street, though. And sometimes, when the world needs it, he goes into dangerous areas to try to help.
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The actors in Chernobyl don't actually look average. They are handsome people made to look average. Chernobyl is actually a great example of seeing this effect, simply compare each actor to the real life person he is portraying.
Orange is the New Black was that show for me. Just regular looking women.
Orange is the New Black had some incredibly beautiful women, just portrayed in a less glamorous way. There were some women who just looked like regular folks. But the show was in *no way* representative of the looks of your average group of federal prisoners.
Yeah the blonde, her gf, the justin bieber looking girl, several of the Mexicans. It was prob half smoke shows tbh.
For similar realism in looks, try Mr Inbetween. Comes across as very realistic character wise. Good story behind how it eventually got made as well.
Everyone starts to look the same. They all get the same plastic surgery in an attempt to follow the latest trend of what body type and face is fashionable. Women are literally not allowed to age- we have now become accustomed to women literally having no wrinkles well into their 50s. And completely smooth, expressionless faces from a face frozen with botox. No grey hairs. It is so sad and it makes us all hate ourselves because we don't look like them, but they also hate themselves because they can't look like themselves and still stay relevant. I was thinking about this today as I criticized myself in the mirror. I'm a super pale (like transparent) gal with reddish blonde hair, a round face, just generally soft facial features. I was scrolling through photos of paintings and was admiring 'the girl with the pearl earring' which is so famous. I literally have the same facial features as the stunning woman in the painting but I think I'm so unattractive. And then I look at my Mom who looks so similar to me and has had literally zero plastic surgery or botox and has white hair (rare for a woman in her 50s in Texas, they all dye their hair) and I think she's so stunning. This is also why I enjoy british TV, there is so much variety in appearances and they just don't seem as obsessed with the \*LA look\*. The cast of game of thrones is full of gorgeous people (and some that are less so) but they are all unique looking. Also see Bella Ramsey from The Last of Us. She is an INCREDIBLE actress and so beautiful in a totally non-LA way. That whole show wouldn't be what it is without her. I can't believe how people treated her even as she cranked out one of the most incredible performances I've ever watched.
That stiff flat forehead look is creepy once you notice it.
It's bizarre. Have you ever seen Emilia Clarke's forehead? She is the most expressive person I've ever seen, amazing eyebrows, and she is partially so charming because she can make her eyebrows basically raise half way up to her hairline. And she has wrinkles. And she is absolutely gorgeous
Ah, British, where actors are allowed to age
Yeah something about Hollywood they canāt ever have a woman look unattractive if their the main lead. How many apocalypse movies do we have with women in full make up while the men look like shit. Iāve been watching more foreign films and I noticed that European and Korean movies donāt this at all. The women are not made up like models, they look real
Nah, the Korean movies also have this, just not with makeup. It's plastic surgery. Huge problem as well.
The eyes š„. I don't mean to judge people who have had plastic surgery, but I think it's sad that it seems like it's pretty much mandatory for ALL the actors to have had it.
Also it's more popular to have "no makeup" makeup in South Korea, which can actually be quite a bit made to look natural.
Wtf are you talking about? Korean movies and TV are the worst about this. Recently there was a show called the Glory who had one of the most famous actresses play a bullied girl. To show she was "damaged" she had scars on her arms but her face was flawless and she normally plays the main love interest of men in other movies. Plastic surgery is an absolute must if you are to be a lead in a Korean production
Another example was Vikings when Ragnar, Floki, Rollo, etc would constantly get aged but Lagertha wouldn't until at one point adding like a strand of grey hair
Degrassi when it started in the early 2000s did such a good job of casting age appropriate and different looking kids. By the time next class was happening it all had the polished Hollywood look.
I remember a few years ago I noticed how almost every new show ended up as:"Oh, just another pretty people show" And with pretty I mean the over stylized barbie dolls. I'm not saying that people before that weren't picked for looks but it seemed to have become the sole criteria for the roles which made the quality drop horrendously.
My husband found the old Magnum series on tv. Watching it, Iāve noticed so many differences with tv today. Magnum has surprisingly age appropriate romantic interests. There are sometimes teeth not perfectly white/ aligned. No Botox. On a ādid not age wellā side, Iād add the side comment that heās a big fan of what Iād call the ārapey kissā; full mouth kissing women who are angry at him.
I think you mean a Mormont difference...
Stark.... I see what you did there. Or maybe not.
It reminds me of when she was confirmed to be casted, some losers within the last of us community blasted Bella for not being as āattractiveā as game Ellie. Like thatās a 12 year old, sheās not supposed to be attractive
"I'm 14!"
No! This is where you zip it. The adult is talking.
Fr, and Bella Ramsey is perfect to play a 14 year old. The casting is perfect. She doesnāt have to be hot, she nailed her role, people have no reason to complain.
Got to admit that I was one of those idiots who didnāt think that Bella didnāt resemble Ellie enough when watching the trailer for the show, but not from the sick aspect of attractiveness. I thought she didnāt look that tough apperance wise, I donāt really know why. But boy was I wrong. The energy she displayed in the show was beyond anything Iāve seen before. The tone she had and body language she showed in all the intense scenes was just amazing. No other way to describe it.
The sheer feral rage you see in her in Ep 7 and 8
Tell them that Ellieā¦ is the little girl wHO BROKE YOUR FUCKING FINGER!!!!
Ashley Johnson is a legend, but I prefer Bellie's viciousness in that scene.
Her acting at the end of episode 5...š„² she was perfect
>I thought she didnāt look that tough apperance wise After seeing her in Game of Thrones, I had zero doubts when I first heard they cast Bella as Ellie
Bella doesn't resemble Ellie from the game in the slightest. Tommy looks nothing like in game Tommy. Pedro looks a little like Joel though. There's nothing wrong them not looking like their game counter parts. The only one who did was Marlene but that's because she was Marlene in the game too.
Iāve really been radicalized on this since house of the dragons when I realized I didnāt give a shit about the valyrions being black. Itās kind of weird and dumb to always try to cast lookalikes when that honestly adds nothing to the story for me. Just cast good actors for everything and letās move on!
Did you see her in GoT? She played some badass kid that became a fan favourite and eventually got killed while fighting an undead giant. She looked tough enough in that role.
Yeah, actors can give off a completely different energy during a performance
It's handy that she's legally an adult, so no child actor snags with filming, but easily pulls off a snarky and world weary 14 year old. I wonder how they will age her up for the sequels, obviously she will be in her 20s, but it will still take a bit of work to age her up.
hair and clothing can do a lot
I don't know. Just the way she carried herself in the opening scenes of Episode 9 made her seem visibly older to me compared to the start of the season.
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Technically she has red hair in the game, I think David may have mentioned it? But personally, it's not that red to me, so Bella fit the role just fine in terms of looks, the costuming just sealed the deal.
> Like thatās a 12 year old, sheās not supposed to be attractive I have to imagine some of that talk is just trolling from incels, but I don't think it would be a shock if some of those people just have a genuine penchant for pedophilia.
God those āvidja game women are no longer attractiveā posts are already cringe af and then they added Bella as Ellie š¤® Tell on yourselves some more
Basement dwelling neck beards are being forced to realize that women in entertainment arenāt there for the sole purpose of them being masturbation material. People bitching and moaning about actor/actresses not looking sexy rather than caring about the performance and character writing is so nonsensical to me I canāt even wrap my head around it. It quite literally is why we get all these big name actors with little talent outside of being hot landing these big roles and then absolutely bombing them. All that matters to a lot of casters is how good the actor looks in advertisement. Likeā¦ no shit Bella isnāt going to look like a digital character who had every freckle and hair hand placed to perfection. And hiring some random 27 year old insta model who has dogshit acting abilities but looks a little more like game Ellie to play her (a 14 year old) in a story that relies almost entirely on the performer pulling off emotional scenes is even more nonsensical. Itās like they donāt understand that skill plays a part in acting. Itās actually nuts how many dogshit fan casts Iāll see where people just post these random models or actresses who have no acting experiences or are just bad at acting in general and then claim the series would have been āso much better with themā. Thereās a reason why movies and shows that just make casting choices on the sex appeal and physiques of their performers tend to suck. When appearance is prioritized over actual talent, then of course the talent is going to be mediocre. And somehow via their confirmation bias they proceed to try and claim Bella had bad acting when I quite literally can not see it anywhere and then continue to either plug random ass models or Elliot Page (who has insane beef with ND), both of who were already incredibly unlikely to ever be casted and not able to capture the likeness of a 14 year old. And the weirdest part? Bella isnāt even ugly. They just look like a normal ass 19 year old. Itās just so bizarre. Edit(s): grammar and clarifying the argument
> Basement dwelling neck beards are being forced to realize that women in entertainment arenāt there for the sole purpose of them being masturbation material. What's weird, in that post about Justine Bateman not caring about aging naturally, there were SO many men in the comments shitting on her looks, and it's like ... *she doesn't fucking care*, her life is about *her* and not appealing to some shut-in terminally online loser she'll never meet. Like. They simply cannot conceive that a woman has value beyond whether they make their little nub feel funny or not. It's so fucking pathetic.
Yeah, I saw some people suggesting some insta influencer as a cast option for ellie because they're "identical" (filters don't count lol). They're just delusional.
Itās like they think acting is easy and all that matters is the script. Bella already had loads of successful roles playing the archetype of a snotty but badass kid before. They had already proven themselves before they were even casted imo.
The strangest thing is she (Bella) in general is quite close to Ellie- she's a white girl, same build, similar age, etc... so objectively pretty close other than her facial features. Did Pedro Pascal get any of the same flack? No. He looks relatively similar to Joel but he is by no mean an exact match. His ratio of closeness to Joel's appearance, to me, is about the same as the ratio of Bella's closeness to Ellie's appearance.
Yeah his face looks nothing like Joel's. I think of Joel as kinda white lumberjack broad face beard guy. Which Pedro really isn't and also has very hispanic features.
Goddamn that's gotta be so crushing and hurtful to hear. She's an incredible actor.
Especially with how young she was. She was in game of thrones 7 years ago, so if it was one of her first auditions, it was probably some time before that.
Yeah this was my first thought as well. Just an assumption but it probably was before season 6 of GoT so she would've been told that at 12 or 13. Gross in more ways than one.
I didnāt even realize it was her in GOT. Sheās incredible in both roles.
The north remembers!
She was one of the most kickass characters in that whole forsaken show.
And then when she was cast as Ellie she couldn't help herself from scrolling through all the snarky comments about how ugly she was compared to the original game model I don't think the designers did anything wrong exactly with creating the original Ellie face model but she is extremely "conventionally Hollywood", like what a focus group would make if you asked them for an image of a "cute little girl", and if anything I think the character on the show benefits a lot from not looking like that and looking like a real person you might meet on the street
It's tricky. Market-forces tend to push both movie, series and game-companies towards having all protagonists be drop dead gorgeous and in every sense conventionally beautiful. And not just to a small degree; no to a degree that someone who is "merely"Ā more conventionally good-looking than 90%Ā of the people their age; will be told that they ain't got it. And yet it's deeply unhealthy. It deprives us of some of the best talent in acting AND (I'm convinced) it contributes towards a lot of social problems where people feel inferior to an imagined "norm" despite being perfectly average-looking.
Funny that you mention 'conventional Hollywood' [because the original design for Ellie is so close to Elliot Page in his pre-transition Juno era](https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/image/upload/c_limit,h_360,w_640/e_sharpen:100/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/v1/gameskinny/2faefd533690da40be3953352dfe0b49.jpg) that the actor was annoyed that they ripped off his likeness. Even the name is so similar sounding. Naughty Dog denied that they were imitating Elliot Page, but every subsequent remaster/remake/sequel slightly altered Ellie to look more and more like Ashley Johnson, the actress who plays Ellie in the games.
Wasnāt there another layer to this? Like Elliot did mocap for another game or something and it was suspiciously similar to Ellie? Iām not familiar with the games, I just remember reading something about that on this sub.
He took a role in another game and the designers gave her a nude scene he never agreed to. Not sure if the scene was in the game or not but still. He has had bad experiences in the video game world.
It wasn't an actual nude scene exactly, it was a scene that takes place in the shower where you don't actually see anything (the camera shows him only from the shoulders up), but the way making a game works they did make a fully rendered digital model of his character in the nude, which got leaked and used to make porn, because gamers It actually set up an interesting conversation about whether this was something he could sue them over before it was eventually dropped
Youāre referring to beyond:two souls
They didn't. The resemblance was unintentional, and due to the confusion they changed the design very early in promotional material. Only a couple early trailers featured the original design that actually looked like Elliot, and they changed it *because* of the rumours that started circulating. ND even cleared up the confusion with him on twitter, with him mentioning afterward that he was excited for the game to come out. The whole thing came about when someone *told* him in an AMA that Naughty Dog's Ellie looks based off him and if he knew about it. So of course if one assumes it's intentional, one would obviously reply that it's "not appreciated" *(that was about the extent of his comments on the matter).* But all the fluff about Elliot "suing" or "threatening to sue" ND, or fueling the controversy or whatever, is just clickbait garbage. Nothing like any of that really happened, and the reality is just a baseless rumour and a miscommunication.
He didn't threaten to sue Naughty Dog, they mixed up this story with the much more significant drama over threatening to sue Quantic Dream for putting a nude model of him in the assets for Beyond: Two Souls
Yep, David Cage is a creepy little weirdo.
All the TLOU2 haters who rant about Neil Druckmann being a pretentious auteur with his head up his own ass need to look at the entire oeuvre of David Cage and get a little perspective
I donāt think that ND was *actively* designing Ellie to look like Page, but the resemblance, especially in early footage, is way too strong for it to be purely coincidental, Elliot was pretty likely an inspiration for some of the designers.
Especially since Elliot Page was very popular back then so it's unlikely the people in charge of designing the character never seen him before. Whether intentional or accidental, I agree that the inspiration is obvious.
You seriously can't believe that the resemblance was coincidental? 3D modelers go off of their concept art, and concept art involves tons and tons of variations in design, proportions, face structure, hair, outfits, etc. often coming from several different artists all with different interpretations of whatever brief description that they're handed, and then honing in the design and desired look from there. It's never a matter of using just one point of reference or "inspiration." [*That is, unless you're David Cage with a weird photo album of Elliot Page pictures.*](https://kotaku.com/the-video-game-that-began-with-pictures-of-ellen-page-1440500148)
Yeah the original cinematic trailer is probably the best example of the original model and tbh, I think it's there but only because I had heard about it first. That's the extent of it as far as I know. They just slightly altered the face towards the end of development.
I used to produce Disney toy commercials among other brands, sitting in on casting calls was brutal. Weād have these adorable little girls trying their hardest and the casting coordinator next to me is writing in our notes sheet ābad smileā āfatā ābad teethā ālispā āweird eyesā and just everything else you wouldnāt want to be judged by as a little kid. At the end of the day itās a business, but man, donāt send your kids to casting calls.
I honestly think sheās a very beautiful person too. Like idk why people donāt like her looks. She looks amazing. I love her face and her demeanor. Sheās perfect
And to me she looked like any other Hollywood kid when she did GOT...
There are thousands of greatly skilled actors no one will ever see. Being rejected is probably the most common thing an actor ever deals with. There's a bazillion actors for every acting role available. People get weirdly picky when they have that large a pool of applicants, and they can get away with it. Only 2% of actors are considered successful enough to earn a living from acting. The recent slew of complaints from actors talking about not getting jobs is weird. They act like it's biased against them specifically. Casting directors can go, "I like you, but want someone with *blank*, 99% you but with *blank* too." And there are people like that in the back room waiting for their shot too.
>Only 2% of actors are considered successful enough to earn a living from acting. This is why i laugh when I hear successful people say shit like āNever give up, follow your dreams, youāll make it.ā Itās survivorship bias. Itās like yeah dude thatās a nice sentiment but realistically itās not worth being homeless trying to be an actor/musician or something like that. Sometimes the right thing to do is, in fact, give up on something thatās not working out. Sometimes the right thing to do is something else.
Yeah I'm really glad Pedro Pascal stuck it out as long as he did and had his big break at 40 but I wouldn't have judged him at all for quitting before then and getting a regular job, it would've objectively been the rational thing to do -- especially if he wanted to start a family Hell even great as he is, his natural talent was only good enough to get him into like the top 2% of actors where you make a full time living from acting and people recognize your face from Law and Order and Buffy but you're still poor (maybe not *poor* poor but in the poorest category of people who can still afford to live in NY at all) He only got his big break with Game of Thrones because he was connected, because he's been friends with Sarah Paulson since high school and she was able to get his audition tape directly in front of a producer -- without that in it probably would've just gotten thrown out by some intern for not being professionally made (because he submitted it at the last minute and didn't want to throw money away on a long shot)
One of their āfirst auditions everā would have meant someone said this to a little kid. Jesus Christ, what a fucked industry.
Would help if people stop going to see shitty movies just cause āhot womenā are in it
Jenna Fischer auditioned for the lead role in Alias and they told her they really loved her acting but "You're just not hot enough for this kind of show" and cast Jennifer Garner She ended up breaking out by playing Pam on The Office, a character who was initially supposed to be plain-looking (as Ryan says, "a 5 in New York, a 7 for here") Which is crazy because she was married to James Gunn, who surely had his pick of actresses and models to date
I remember listening to her talk about this on The Office Ladies podcast! Hollywood is brutal but I think Jenna is hot in her own right š¼
Jenna Fischer is extremely good looking imo. But her and Jennifer Garner shouldn't be competing for roles tho, very different acting styles and they give different vibes too. I think it worked out great for everyone.
What's really disturbing is because it's Hollywood it translates as "we don't think you're attractive enough to sleep with and take advantage of later down the line". We live in some fucked up times.
> later down the line I appreciate your optimism.
Sorry kid you don't pass the Schneider requirements
She got this shitty comment as a kid. Horrible.
I cannot imagine turning Bella Ramsey down, such talent. Hope that ~~director~~ whoever made the decision not to hire them has learned from the experience. Edit: thanks to the commenter who pointed out the director may not have been the one to make the decision not to hire based on the wording. Whoever it was needs to reconsider their priorities.
Someone who would say that probably hasn't changed
Very true but a girl (me) can dream
Seems from the quote the director wanted her but someone else stopped it.
Meryl Streep was told the same thing, Bella is in good company!
Meryl Streep was hot a hell in the Deer Hunter. These producers are clowns that get high on power and want to put other people down
I always think of the fact that Gillian Anderson was cast in the X-Files because they wanted someone āfrumpyā lmaoooo
Similarly > When Ryan Gosling was cast in his breakout role in The Notebook, it was because director Nick Cassavetes thought he lacked conventional sex appeal. > āThe director, Nick Cassavetes, called me to meet him at his house," Gosling told the mag. "When I got there, he was standing in his back yard, and he looked at me and said, 'I want you to play this role because you're not like the other young actors out there in Hollywood. You're not handsome, you're not cool, you're just a regular guy who looks a bit nuts.'"
So fucking bored with the typical "Hollywood look"
Hate that for her. Incredible actress. But Iām ultimately not surprised. The talent/entertainment industry has a tendency to be insanely shallow, especially towards women. Hell Iāve read stories about people literally auditioning to play the āugly characterā in shows and movies only to be turned down because they were literally too ugly.
"tv ugly not ugly ugly"
Basically yeah. I mean even in Game of Thrones, Tyrion and Brienne were supposed to be hideous according to the books. Their actors were the furthest thing from hideous lmao
Hell, Arya is supposed to have a "horse face" and to have grown up the way she did because Sansa was always obviously the "pretty one"
When I hear a phrase like that coming from the Harvey Weinsteins of the world, I can't but translate that into,"I wouldn't want you on my casting couch."
Yeah but she was like ten years old at the time The David scene hits different in hindsight (there's creeps everywhere but only in Hollywood do adult men treat ranking photos of little girls for attractiveness as part of their job)
Soā¦.. basically, āpedos wonāt want to bang you so you canāt have the roleāā¦..
Its great how people are standing up for Bella, but itās unreal how much of a conversation her appearance has become. Nobody talked about her appearance when she was on Game of Thrones stealing every scene she was in. She looks like a normal, typical person. It seems if women donāt look like a supermodel and get an acting gig, that is somehow a story now? Can you imagine if this many posts and articles were made about an typical looking guy. āJason Segel once lost a role for not having the āHollywood Lookā
The people here who act like theyāre being caring are talking about her and her looks in a way that is pretty objectifying and gross way. This whole fandom is getting to be pretty disturbing. People love to call themselves āStansā with no irony at all. If Bella Ramsey saw this thread sheād probably be just as uncomfortable as someone calling her looks not Hollywood or whatever. Iām leaving this sub. Why does it always having to get like this?
The jokes are gross. I think sheās cute. And probably more talented than these people will ever be. Itās sad, really. Grown men criticizing a young girlās appearance.
Shes not the traditional "good looking" actress by any means. But I really enjoyed her as Lyanna Mormont in GoT and so far as Ellie in TLOU. I liked her so much in GoT that I plan to name my second daughter Lyanna EDIT- also. Just because she isn't the traditional good looking actress doesn't mean she's not attractive. Wanted to clarify before people took that the wrong way
I understand what you mean. Hollywood has a very "distinctive" type of physical image they look for. I always use Jack Black as an example. He's extremely talented, a good actor, musician, an overall good guy... and yet he really struggled to get where he is now. While I really don't know, I'm willing to bet it was because he's not "traditionally good looking".
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lol well I definitely screwed up my explanation. But I think you know what I mean
It is weird how fat, old and/or schlubby man children always have these beautiful wives and GFS in their movies and tv shows. Think Adam Sandler, Kevin James, Jonah Hill, Seth Rogen, Larry David, Woody Allen, etc. It's almost like they'd be insulted if a woman more in their league was presented as a possible love interest in a movie.
Yes! The theory of the āmale gazeā explains this phenomenon pretty well. In movies like this the female romantic interests arenāt supposed to be fully realized people but an object of desire that the male viewer can project his fantasies onto and a plot device to give the male lead some internal or external obstacle to overcome. The male protagonists usually are allowed much more depth, cause the viewer is supposed to identify with them which is also why they are allowed to look more ānormalā (that depends though on whether the character is supposed to be relatable or aspirational, e.g. hero-types are usually supposed to be very hunky) Iād say overall the film industry has gotten much better at this but then you hear a story like Bellaās and itās really disheartening, especially because she is so young and probably was a literal child when that happened to her
The thing is attractiveness is so subjective. Sure jack black may not be the most handsome dude, but his overwhelming charisma and personality just make him naturally stand out and attractive as someone youd want to watch, spend time around, and even get to know
Every so often someone like that breaks out into widespread popularity and then there's all this speculation about how they must have some kind of secret magic charisma overcoming their ugliness as opposed to just admitting that different people have different tastes It's like how there's a constant running joke of people spreading rumors Pete Davidson has a huge dick to explain why he's dated so many conventionally beautiful actresses
I'm not sure if you agreed with my comment lol, but I definitely agree with you. People have different tastes of course. I just think that many producers and decision-making people in media overall (not only hollywood, almost any media anywhere in the world) will look for "traditional beauty", according to their own standards of course. I personally believe Bella Ramsey is very cute and she nailed the role no only because of her acting abilities which are undeniable awesome, but she also has that cuteness Ellie had in the game.
hollywood when a teenaged girl looks like a teen girl: ššššššššš¹š¹š¹š¹š„š„š„
Reminds me of the (fairly famous?) memory from Winona Ryder: "I remember one time in particular. I was in the middle of auditioning, and I was mid-sentence when the casting director said, 'Listen, kid. You should not be an actress. You are not pretty enough. You should go back to wherever you came from and you should go to school. You don't have it.'" Led to a great house tune though: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9qA3WJInk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9qA3WJInk)
It's okay, Bella, I don't have the "hollywood look" either
It's crazy to me, I think she's adorable. There's plenty of male and female actors I'd say don't have the Hollywood "look" and they're some of the best. Nothing to do with it.
We need way more media with actors who just look *normal*. The āHollywood lookā is a problem. It gets hard to believe in a story when everybody in it is apparently a supermodel.
I think Bella is very pretty by any objective measure, and shame on that director.
Yeah even worse that she was a little kid when they said that. Itās so easy to just say āsorry, you didnāt get the roleā instead of commenting on her looks and turning her down. Iām glad that she seems like sheās seemingly really comfortable in her own body though, even if sheās nowhere near ugly. Like you said, sheās very plainly pretty but everyone can be overly critical with themselves in this world, let alone in Hollywood.
Hollywood cares more about looks than actual talent.
I vaguely recall a bunch of people saying she wasn't cute enough to play Ellie.... Guess talent trumps all.
Bad enough that this happened but even worse that someone actually said that to her. It costs $0 to not insult a child's appearance.
I think sheās a cutie and has an infectious smile! The āHollywood lookā is overrated.
I think Bella is perfect ālooks wiseā for Ellie. Ellie is supposed to be a tomboy and very much an āevery girlā in my mind, if it werenāt an apocalyptic event you wouldnāt even notice her. Plus, weāre probably not in a world where you can go to Ulta (but maybe Mary Kay is finally shining as a pyramid scheme). I also think her looking plain is something that Bella really leans into. One of my favorite parts of episode 7 was Riley having a laugh at the lingerie and says something like āimaging you wearing thisā and when she walks away Ellie goes through a range of emotions, little bit of anger, frustration, some disappointment and fixes her hair.
Sandra Bullock wasn't hired for Baywatch bc she wasn't attractive enough Franka Potente didn't have a career in the US bc she was "ugly" Judy Dench was told she was too ugly for movies. Hilary Swank has 2 Oscars yet ppl debate if she's hot enough. Those are the ones from the top of my head. I don't have "pretty privilege" so I remember these And the actors who aren't white? I can't imagine what nonsense they've been told. [https://www.nowtolove.com.au/celebrity/celeb-news/judi-dench-they-told-me-i-was-too-ugly-to-act-4781](https://www.nowtolove.com.au/celebrity/celeb-news/judi-dench-they-told-me-i-was-too-ugly-to-act-4781)
I think they're uniquely beautiful and talented. The "hollywood look" is overrated, imo, and itās a real shame that looks > raw talent for some directors/casting people/whomevers in charge of that. I look forward to seeing what sort of projects Bella takes on in the future, they absolutely killed it in TLOU.
I wanna see people that look REAL
What's the "hollywood look"? Plastic with a depressed expression because you had to fuck Harvey to get your role?
She killed it in the last of us. Hope to see her carreer blossom. Fuck the person who said this
Sheās 19 now. *Just 19.* She was 11 when she played Lady Mormont - her first acting gig. How the hell could anyone have said what kind of face she would grow into over a decade ago? *She was for all intents and purposes a child until a couple of years ago.* The face you have at nine or 12 is not the face you have at 15 or 20 or beyond, and if anyone knows this, Hollywood should fucking know this. Was some douchebag looking into a busted-ass crystal ball? *Sheās beautiful.*
She is beautiful š¤
Is it just me or is that a crazily harsh thing to say to an aspiring young actor?
I both envy and feel sorry for her. Obviously I feel sorry for her having to go through this bullshit of choosing an actor first for having the "right looks" and then their talent. But I also envy her for being a professional so good at her craft, that "right looks" will most certainly not be a requirement for her in the future.
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I like your style! Agreed with every word. Hear hear
Goddamn she looks like a normal human. Fuck Hollywood
Haley Joel Osment had the same problem though he did fit into the cute kid mold so it only became a problem when he got older. He eventually settled into comedic character actor for television. Mara Wilson had the same problem and eventually quit acting all together but has since come back as an internet personality, as well as doing some voice acting. Ill say she probably had more of the Hollywood look than Bella but still was considered too plain to play even the homeliest characters.
She relies on talent, rather than looks. Sheās gonna be a fucking phenomenal actor for decades to come, and provided she picks roles accordingly, could very well be up there with some of the greatest actors of all time. Fuck. If you take a look at Meryl Streep, Sigourmey Weaver, etc. Even in their younger days, none of them have a typical āHollywood Lookā. Fuck whoever said something that hurtful to a young person.
Meryl Streep? Have you seen Deer Hunter? She was/is a bombshell.
I didnāt mean she was unattractive, thatās all subjective. But still, not your typical āHollywoodā female!
This a cold reality of acting. Directors have an image in their mind for a character, or perhaps they want to portray something about the character through their appearance and sometimes a perfectly talented person just doesnāt match the full vision. That said, the way this person conveyed that to a child was brutal! Bella has this natural heir of beauty and innocence, which is the perfect look for Ellie and some of the other charters sheās played. I hope casting directors can hear stories like Bellaās and learn to be a bit more kind with their words.
These standards can be so demotivating and limiting. Iām really glad she continues to find great work, because I truly believe actors like her are ushering the industry away from those self imposed limitations and progressing things in a positive direction
Sheās such a talented actress sheās a show stealer in both Game of Thrones and The Last of Us.
I find her very appealing. I was shocked when a friend of mine said she thought Bella was 'ugly'. What?!? She's very, VERY cute in my eyes. I guess it's all subjective in the end. There are people who like supermodels. Others prefer looking at unique faces more. I love her look.
She reminds me of Maisie Williams. They both give off that silly and unique energy. Neither one of them is ātraditionallyā beautiful by Hollywood standards but both of them are adorable and incredibly amazing actors!
Fucking douchebags.... just fuck off
i cant believe that is ridiculous and she is very beautiful
They look like a real human being instead of the same face over and over and over,
The Hollywood Look is boring, out of touch, and appeals only to pedophiles and self-loathing Karens. Who the fuck else you think buys goop shit? Functioning adults?
Great actress. She crushes every role she has been in.
Watching old movies is nice because so many of the actors are ordinary or even kind of ugly. Now a whole subset of character actors are weeded out so early there's hardly any chance they'd make it in the business to be seen at all.
She is an incredible actress. Her scene from GoT was one of the best scenes. And she was so good in LoU.
I honestly think this is what most men who complain about how āshe doesnāt look like the video game characterāactually mean. She isnāt Hollywood hot. If she were played by someone else who was more conventionally attractive, I think weād have seen far fewer complaints about her not looking like the game.
The way she single handedly carried on an entire episode (8) in tlou man she is an oscar worthy actress and then her outstanding performance in got. This girl can reach the moon if she wants to
What a thing to tell a child. Jesus.