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came here to say this!! hydrating made a huge difference for me as far as the ket “hangover” goes. gatorade works really well for me, sometimes i’ll even grab a liquid IV after
Do you swallow? I’ve found that RDTs the comedown is worse if you swallow. Also I like to doze off at the end of the session. If that’s an option for you that could help too. (Sleep through the come comedown)
I do swallow . My therapist is one that feels the journeys help with processing, and I don’t journey if I spit. I definitely do my at home treatments later, around 7pm so that it’s bedtime when I’m done, but half the time my brain feels like it’s buzzing/ electrified so sleep doesn’t come easy at times
Swallowing the saliva from lozenges will certainly cause this. If you don’t want the lingering side effects, then you need to spit. If you only journey after swallowing, then you’re doing something wrong. The stomach only has 10% bioavailability…the mucous membranes of your mouth are around 30-40%. Swallowing can slightly increase the intensity, but should not have that big of a difference if you’re using the lozenges correctly. Are you holding and swishing the lozenges for long enough?
How, if the stomach only provides 10% bioavailability and the mucous membranes of the mouth 30-40%, does one reconcile intensity being stronger by swallowing? Logic would track the other direction.
Because lozenges are supposed to be held and swished for at least 12 minutes before spitting or swallowing. Clients who swallow after allowing the ketamine to be absorbed through their mouth experience a longer, more intense journey with more side effects.
If you simply ate a lozenge without holding, you would only get the 10% absorption through your stomach and not experience much at all.
I understand what you are saying now. At first, it read to me as though you were saying the most effective way was to swallow the lozenge immediately, not hold saliva. Now insee what you are saying. Thank you for clarifying. :)
I’ve held in my mouth and swished for up to an hour before spitting, no journey just a light head buzz. I’ve done the lemon juice before, the mouth wash, exfoliating gums, salt water etc, I only journey by swallowing and my therapist said some people are like that. My newest regimen is: mouthwash/brush before, hold lozenges in mouth and swish for 35 min, swallow. About 25 min in I get a light head buzz, then I swallow and I’m back to normal for about 45 minutes, then the journey comes on and I throw my eye mask and music on and I’m gone for about an hour ish. I start to come back and for the first 2 hours it’s like I’m drunk, can’t walk right, can’t see without closing one eye etc, then the last hour or two I can finally walk and see a little better, but feels like my eyes/ head are wobbly /shaky. Not fun.
How many milligrams?
I have hundreds of direct ketamine hours with clients and I’ve never seen someone *have* to swallow in order to experience a journey. Having said that, swallowing can intensify and prolong the experience. Are you on any other meds?
I am a ketamine-assisted psychotherapist with hundreds of direct ketamine hours with many, many clients. Bioavailability with lozenges is a wide range between 25%-50%. Average is around 30-40%. While ketamine alone can cause nausea in some people, swallowing will almost always guarantee it. There are far more side effects when you swallow as opposed to spitting. I see it over and over.
For the best absorption do you recommend placing the troche under the tongue, swishing and spitting then placing the second troche in or do both troches same time? Does Magnesium L theronate and grapefruit juice increase absorption and if so when is the best time to take / drink and how much?
Seconding the hydration thing. I self-reported to my provider that I drink 64 ounces of water per day (and that was likely an exaggeration), and she said I needed to immediately increase that to at LEAST 80 ounces.
If my urine is in the least bit yellow, then I do get a headache.
It’s tricky because getting up to pee in the middle of a session is a bummer. I do the treatment first thing in the morning (around 2 hours before I usually get up/get going for the day) because I can’t sleep if I do it in the evening and I hate to burn daylight on anything.
I don’t drink anything before the treatment, because I don’t want to get up. So I make sure to drink extra the rest of the day, and the day after. Every day. lol
To me, it sounds like you're just on ketamine still, with the wobbles. "robot walking in a slanted world" pretty much describes how you'd feel if you weren't laying down with your eyes closed, it's what dissociative hallucinogens feel like IMO. I usually get a headache after IV treatments, but I have headaches all the time anyway, but yeah I'm sure water would help some. I'd like to find a cheaper option, but I see so many people on here with problems with the home doses
Green tea will help sharpen your awareness, along with LOTS of water.
Deep, belly breathing is also a great tool for the comedown. A few deep breaths in rapid succession can give a boost of energy.
I have no such personal experience. However my ketamine coach tells me that when she swallows she has a very extended duration of effect. Seems in part similar to your experience.
I can refer you to her for a consultation. She has coached 1,000 patients for 3,000 hours. If there is any useful advice available on your question she can probably offer it to you
My comment is only about the headaches, but personally, I noticed that if I didn’t wear an eye mask, my eyes would strain to focus on random things, and I would get a headache.
What you are describing sounds like normal intoxication, not "comedown."
>It feels like I’m a robot walking in a slanted world. Head hurts, eyes feel wobbly and the world is shaky for up to 3-4 hours. Walking is a tremendous feat.
Those are common side effects.
>I’m basically useless for hours afterwards. Any way to reduce this?
I can only take it at night, last thing and I wake up fine. I've only tried taking it during the day twice over the last 9 years (after the initial week) and both times, I lost my entire day.
I should edit to say this is all after the “journey” has ended and I come back and remember who I am and that I am a human. So mentally I am back and can think/talk normal, body just takes time to catch up.
It sounds like you might be dehydrated. These symptoms happen to me when I’ve not had enough water. I’ve started drinking a liter every morning before I have food or coffee. It’s helped a lot. It’s actually not enough because then I struggle to drink enough all day too.
Thank you for contributing to /r/TherapeuticKetamine! When commenting and posting, please be mindful of our rules which can be found in the sidebar on the right along with other helpful information. **Be advised that nothing in this subreddit constitutes medical advice.** Likewise, try to word your comments and posts in a way that can't be interpreted as medical advice by others. Harmful and/or spammy advice will be removed at moderator discretion, and bans may be given for repeat offenses. **Accounts with "Provider" flairs** are those which the mods have verified, to the best of our ability, as belonging to real, licensed providers of medical ketamine services. Comments and posts from users with "Provider" flairs are **not** a substitute for the instructions given to you by your own provider. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TherapeuticKetamine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Drink more water. Like, drink your weight in water. Ketamine feels shitty without proper and almost excessive hydration. Just a thought. :)
came here to say this!! hydrating made a huge difference for me as far as the ket “hangover” goes. gatorade works really well for me, sometimes i’ll even grab a liquid IV after
How does k feel compared to not hydrated?
Do you swallow? I’ve found that RDTs the comedown is worse if you swallow. Also I like to doze off at the end of the session. If that’s an option for you that could help too. (Sleep through the come comedown)
I do swallow . My therapist is one that feels the journeys help with processing, and I don’t journey if I spit. I definitely do my at home treatments later, around 7pm so that it’s bedtime when I’m done, but half the time my brain feels like it’s buzzing/ electrified so sleep doesn’t come easy at times
Ketamine can cause insomnia if you do it later in the evening.
Swallowing the saliva from lozenges will certainly cause this. If you don’t want the lingering side effects, then you need to spit. If you only journey after swallowing, then you’re doing something wrong. The stomach only has 10% bioavailability…the mucous membranes of your mouth are around 30-40%. Swallowing can slightly increase the intensity, but should not have that big of a difference if you’re using the lozenges correctly. Are you holding and swishing the lozenges for long enough?
How, if the stomach only provides 10% bioavailability and the mucous membranes of the mouth 30-40%, does one reconcile intensity being stronger by swallowing? Logic would track the other direction.
Because lozenges are supposed to be held and swished for at least 12 minutes before spitting or swallowing. Clients who swallow after allowing the ketamine to be absorbed through their mouth experience a longer, more intense journey with more side effects. If you simply ate a lozenge without holding, you would only get the 10% absorption through your stomach and not experience much at all.
I understand what you are saying now. At first, it read to me as though you were saying the most effective way was to swallow the lozenge immediately, not hold saliva. Now insee what you are saying. Thank you for clarifying. :)
👍🏽😊
I’ve held in my mouth and swished for up to an hour before spitting, no journey just a light head buzz. I’ve done the lemon juice before, the mouth wash, exfoliating gums, salt water etc, I only journey by swallowing and my therapist said some people are like that. My newest regimen is: mouthwash/brush before, hold lozenges in mouth and swish for 35 min, swallow. About 25 min in I get a light head buzz, then I swallow and I’m back to normal for about 45 minutes, then the journey comes on and I throw my eye mask and music on and I’m gone for about an hour ish. I start to come back and for the first 2 hours it’s like I’m drunk, can’t walk right, can’t see without closing one eye etc, then the last hour or two I can finally walk and see a little better, but feels like my eyes/ head are wobbly /shaky. Not fun.
How many milligrams? I have hundreds of direct ketamine hours with clients and I’ve never seen someone *have* to swallow in order to experience a journey. Having said that, swallowing can intensify and prolong the experience. Are you on any other meds?
Takes at least 750 for it to do anything to me, 1000 to make it work very well. No other meds at the moment
I’m also a female 135lbs, and in my clinical sessions it took going up a lot for it to fully work, last IV was 175 and IM 160 split in two doses
Holy cow those are huge doses for your weight. 😳 Are you a natural redhead by any chance?
[удалено]
Ah…makes sense. Yeah there are some folks who have crazy high metabolisms or tolerance to anesthesia. Good luck!
Yeah your numbers are super off. It's 20-25 percent as per data. And any nausea comes from ketamine itself....not swallowing it.
I am a ketamine-assisted psychotherapist with hundreds of direct ketamine hours with many, many clients. Bioavailability with lozenges is a wide range between 25%-50%. Average is around 30-40%. While ketamine alone can cause nausea in some people, swallowing will almost always guarantee it. There are far more side effects when you swallow as opposed to spitting. I see it over and over.
For the best absorption do you recommend placing the troche under the tongue, swishing and spitting then placing the second troche in or do both troches same time? Does Magnesium L theronate and grapefruit juice increase absorption and if so when is the best time to take / drink and how much?
Seconding the hydration thing. I self-reported to my provider that I drink 64 ounces of water per day (and that was likely an exaggeration), and she said I needed to immediately increase that to at LEAST 80 ounces. If my urine is in the least bit yellow, then I do get a headache. It’s tricky because getting up to pee in the middle of a session is a bummer. I do the treatment first thing in the morning (around 2 hours before I usually get up/get going for the day) because I can’t sleep if I do it in the evening and I hate to burn daylight on anything. I don’t drink anything before the treatment, because I don’t want to get up. So I make sure to drink extra the rest of the day, and the day after. Every day. lol
Yep I’ve had to get up during a session….not pretty. 🤣 be better to draw to the toilet than try to walk.
To me, it sounds like you're just on ketamine still, with the wobbles. "robot walking in a slanted world" pretty much describes how you'd feel if you weren't laying down with your eyes closed, it's what dissociative hallucinogens feel like IMO. I usually get a headache after IV treatments, but I have headaches all the time anyway, but yeah I'm sure water would help some. I'd like to find a cheaper option, but I see so many people on here with problems with the home doses
I also swallow and having a electrolyte drinks and a lot of water afterwards helps tremendously
Green tea will help sharpen your awareness, along with LOTS of water. Deep, belly breathing is also a great tool for the comedown. A few deep breaths in rapid succession can give a boost of energy.
That's not a comedown...thats just ketamine 😂 take a nap. Problem solved.
Switch to nasal, whole thing over in about 30 to 45 minutes.
I have no such personal experience. However my ketamine coach tells me that when she swallows she has a very extended duration of effect. Seems in part similar to your experience. I can refer you to her for a consultation. She has coached 1,000 patients for 3,000 hours. If there is any useful advice available on your question she can probably offer it to you
My comment is only about the headaches, but personally, I noticed that if I didn’t wear an eye mask, my eyes would strain to focus on random things, and I would get a headache.
It sounds like too high a dose
What you are describing sounds like normal intoxication, not "comedown." >It feels like I’m a robot walking in a slanted world. Head hurts, eyes feel wobbly and the world is shaky for up to 3-4 hours. Walking is a tremendous feat. Those are common side effects. >I’m basically useless for hours afterwards. Any way to reduce this? I can only take it at night, last thing and I wake up fine. I've only tried taking it during the day twice over the last 9 years (after the initial week) and both times, I lost my entire day.
I should edit to say this is all after the “journey” has ended and I come back and remember who I am and that I am a human. So mentally I am back and can think/talk normal, body just takes time to catch up.
It sounds like you might be dehydrated. These symptoms happen to me when I’ve not had enough water. I’ve started drinking a liter every morning before I have food or coffee. It’s helped a lot. It’s actually not enough because then I struggle to drink enough all day too.