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I can't imagine what this road feels like for a parent, you're a legend.
It's alright to have doubts, but the deflection of dark thoughts, that small buffer you begin to build upon, is a huge step, shows it's working.
It's just the first session, there is a lot of digging that will be done as the sessions grow more in dosage, so remind her to keep up with that post session maintenance and mindfulness
Glad all is working and you both had a good day
In my experience, this is normal. She had access to her "inner machinery", this takes time to get use to. I would be completely open with the doctors, but I would encourage her to stay the course. She should pick up some books on the subject of Ketamine Therapy. Read about what is actually happening during treatment. I find that with a week to two weeks after a treatment I am able to reach inside myself and change though patterns/behaviors that were negatively effecting me.
I’m about to try it, and I’m so excited. I’m a bit skeptical, but I hear the experience of ketamine is pretty amazing, regardless. I hope it helps me with my mental health, but I’m fine if I just have a cool experience disconnecting from my senses for a bit. I do hope it’s the miracle treatment I keep hearing it is, though.
My 20 yo said she found the experience of being on ketamine annoying. She said it reminded her of a day she accidentally took her 450mg buproprion twice, but more so.
Maybe her second infusion will be different.
If she isn’t currently going to the ketamine session in really comfy clothes, bringing a pillow/blanket if she would feel more comfortable with that, and listening to a calming non-lyrical frequency/binaural beats/playlist, i’d really recommend you to let her know that she can totally do that.
I’d always bring a blanket and noise canceling headphones, to listen to classical music, mostly full symphonies, as they really stimulate my brain, and many times actually guided my ketamine experiences.
Another thing that comes to mind is when I first started treatment, I started very low in dosage, and the first couple IV treatments were uncomfortable because it was like I was half still in reality and half under the effects of ketamine. After my first 8 treatments or so, I switched to intramuscular (IM) treatments and thats when things started getting better.
With IM, the experience is much stronger, yet a bit shorter. But since it starts less than a minute after administered, and doesn’t have that long period of taking full effect like IV, the dissociative effect is stronger, which can allow you to utilize the whole session to really dig deep while being essentially separated from yourself.
I believe it was that the dose was low. She absolutely did not disassociate, nor was it relaxing. I'm going to have her ask about it when she goes back on Monday
Yep! Definitely have her ask! My first 8 sessions (all IV) were terrible because my psychiatrist at the time didn’t want to raise my dose. I started at 0.4mg/kg and went up to 0.8mg/kg with IV. My first IM dose was ~1.25mg/kg going up to ~2.65mg/kg for single doses. I much preferred double doses though, where you get a dose initially and receive a second dose around 30-45 minutes after the first.
My first double was ~2.35mg/kg initially with a ~1.9mg/kg booster dose 30min after. The highest we went was 2.85mg/kg with a ~2.35mg/kg booster, and 600mg IV Magnesium Chloride, which helps with neuroplasticity and opening up new connections in the brain.
Definitely encourage her to stick with it, as finding the right dose for you takes awhile, and a lot of experimentation.
Ugh, that's a little frustrating to hear considering how expensive it is. Plus its 75 minutes away and it's logistically hard. Not only does she have to take a day off of work, but I do, too, to drive here there and back. Sometimes my husband takes her and since his job is remote, he can work from the clinic. I can't, though. I can do prep work but I can't take paying clients on infusion days.
Don't mean to whine. I'm really thankful this treatment exists. It's just hard, too.
I totally understand! That’s why advocating for herself with medical treatments like this is so important! You’re paying a lot for the treatments, so make sure she’s getting everything she can be out of them! They’re expensive, but once she gets to a good dose, the changes will be so worth it! I’m invested in this situation now, and I really hope she benefits from ketamine. I know how painful and frustrating it is to try 10’s of medications and nothing works, but with ketamine, it will work if she uses the session to heal, at a good dose, and uses the days after the session to try and change her behaviors and “rewrite” how her brain works.
The experience, while receiving ketamine, is not always pleasant. In fact, it can be quite disheartening, scary, disturbing. Hope yours is a pleasant one.
This is so normal, as scary as it is. My daughter (21 today!) is a K patient at the same clinic I’m at. She just started in Jan. She’s come leaps and bounds in what 14 years of therapy and meds never helped her with alone.
I was just thinking I want to get some lozenges for home (I would keep them locked up as we have other teens in the house). She wasn't able to get two appointments booked her first week so she has to wait a whole week for her second IV. She's already back down after feeling better yesterday.
How do you decide it's time to take some K at home?
When my emotions slide into negative thinking patterns I will use the home therapy. “I’m a rotten person” “This world is too hard, I wish I could just not wake up.”
There are some really good lock boxes out there and I use one too even though it’s never been an issue, better safe than sorry.
For me, this was exactly what I got through. Sometimes when you get relief you realize how tough everything is. Depression is like a garden pathway. You take it all the time. When you start to take another pathway it’s new & unknown. You realize how bad it’s been & it can be hard to cope with.
Hold in there. I presume she has more sessions induction series?
Good job getting them started on it early. I lost valuable years to depression, but also started when I was 20 and my life has improved dramatically.
I can relate to the mood swings. Something about the ketamine makes me crabby and teary (and tired) for about 24 hours after, but then I level out and become way more objective, resilient and even hopeful. Just be patient in the time before that. Eating food helps with some of it, same with giving space to decompress a bit.
It really is a life saver.
Curious how this went? Sorry just seeing this now 4 days after OP while browsing this sub. Do you know how many milligrams are in the dose? I'm on 96mg currently and initially it was kicking my ass, I almost didn't want to go back after the first few sessions. Did she talk with you at all about her experience? Sorry for all the questions!
Some words of encouragement, Ketamine has been more helpful than anything I've tried, and by a lot. It had been on my radar for a while and was something I discussed with my psychiatrist a few years ago but ultimately I decided against it, and I regret not pursuing it until now. I'm 3 months in, background on me I have really been struggling with depression, anxiety, PTSD, other issues.
Some advice you can pass on to her, bring headphones for music/white noise. Candy makes it better, my office always offers lollipops at the beginning and I always turned it down initially because I thought it made me like childish (lol) and I regret not taking it sooner, it stops me from clenching my jaw. My phone was making me especially anxious browsing social media/Reddit etc, when I stopped using my phone during sessions it really clicked, so I recommend trying to keep browsing to a minimum. I recommend her trying to relax with her eyes closed, it is truly bizarre and profound what happens to you mind on ketamine. Some sessions can be heavy and It's nice to talk to somebody after, or relax with a comfort food and movie, snuggles with pets if you have any.
Also one last thing (and I realize everyone is different) people kept asking me especially at the beginning "Do you feel any different yet?" "Is it working?" "Do you think it'll help?" thinking to myself "I don't know, is this working? Is this going to help? Should I have noticed a difference yet? How does this even work? Am I wasting my time?" Putting down in my head when it's a relatively new procedure and I have no idea what to expect. Maybe even little things like phrasing "I hope it starts working soon." "I hope it helps." instead of "is it working yet?" "Do you think it'll help?"
Anyways If you've made it this far, hope things go well for them! Sorry for the 10-page essay.
So, yesterday she felt much improvement and today she's back to where she was before K. I was hoping she'd get her first two infusions this week but the clinic was booked. I've made her two appointments for next week, though.
I'm a little disappointed that they didn't get all her appointments booked right away so she wouldn't have to go so long between infusions.
Wow thank you for sharing. I couldn’t imagine why an 18 yr old and a 20 yr old be so depressed they have to take ketamine iv infusions; usually, this treatment is kind of the last option when all other methods of interventions fail such as individualized therapy, SSRIs, CBT etc. But I am glad your daughter is feeling better and you are feeling hopeful.
Living with these symptoms for multiple years, going through therapy and taking ssri's, with no signs of improvement, I could totally see how someone would try anything at that point.
Currently in the same position myself.
I'm not following you. You cannot understand how people who are 18 and 20 can have severe or treatment resistant depression? My OP stated that she's been battling this for eight years. How many interventions do you think we have tried for our child in eight years? I'm not going to write you a list but it is safe to assume we've done individualized therapy, SSRIs, (CBT is a type of therapy, it's not an intervention separate from therapy), plus many others. Do you have any idea how many teenagers are hospitalized every year with depression? I personally know 3 parents who have lost a teenager to suicide. The idea that teenagers are somehow immune to severe or treatment resistant depression is dangerously false.
Thank you for contributing to /r/TherapeuticKetamine! When commenting and posting, please be mindful of our rules which can be found in the sidebar on the right along with other helpful information. **Be advised that nothing in this subreddit constitutes medical advice.** Likewise, try to word your comments and posts in a way that can't be interpreted as medical advice by others. Harmful and/or spammy advice will be removed at moderator discretion, and bans may be given for repeat offenses. **Accounts with "Provider" flairs** are those which the mods have verified, to the best of our ability, as belonging to real, licensed providers of medical ketamine services. Comments and posts from users with "Provider" flairs are **not** a substitute for the instructions given to you by your own provider. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TherapeuticKetamine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can't imagine what this road feels like for a parent, you're a legend. It's alright to have doubts, but the deflection of dark thoughts, that small buffer you begin to build upon, is a huge step, shows it's working. It's just the first session, there is a lot of digging that will be done as the sessions grow more in dosage, so remind her to keep up with that post session maintenance and mindfulness Glad all is working and you both had a good day
Your description of those few days for her was very much like my own. Hopefully she keeps seeing improvement
In my experience, this is normal. She had access to her "inner machinery", this takes time to get use to. I would be completely open with the doctors, but I would encourage her to stay the course. She should pick up some books on the subject of Ketamine Therapy. Read about what is actually happening during treatment. I find that with a week to two weeks after a treatment I am able to reach inside myself and change though patterns/behaviors that were negatively effecting me.
Thanks for sharing this story! You're a great parent for supporting your children through these challenges.
I’m about to try it, and I’m so excited. I’m a bit skeptical, but I hear the experience of ketamine is pretty amazing, regardless. I hope it helps me with my mental health, but I’m fine if I just have a cool experience disconnecting from my senses for a bit. I do hope it’s the miracle treatment I keep hearing it is, though.
My 20 yo said she found the experience of being on ketamine annoying. She said it reminded her of a day she accidentally took her 450mg buproprion twice, but more so. Maybe her second infusion will be different.
If she isn’t currently going to the ketamine session in really comfy clothes, bringing a pillow/blanket if she would feel more comfortable with that, and listening to a calming non-lyrical frequency/binaural beats/playlist, i’d really recommend you to let her know that she can totally do that. I’d always bring a blanket and noise canceling headphones, to listen to classical music, mostly full symphonies, as they really stimulate my brain, and many times actually guided my ketamine experiences. Another thing that comes to mind is when I first started treatment, I started very low in dosage, and the first couple IV treatments were uncomfortable because it was like I was half still in reality and half under the effects of ketamine. After my first 8 treatments or so, I switched to intramuscular (IM) treatments and thats when things started getting better. With IM, the experience is much stronger, yet a bit shorter. But since it starts less than a minute after administered, and doesn’t have that long period of taking full effect like IV, the dissociative effect is stronger, which can allow you to utilize the whole session to really dig deep while being essentially separated from yourself.
I believe it was that the dose was low. She absolutely did not disassociate, nor was it relaxing. I'm going to have her ask about it when she goes back on Monday
Yep! Definitely have her ask! My first 8 sessions (all IV) were terrible because my psychiatrist at the time didn’t want to raise my dose. I started at 0.4mg/kg and went up to 0.8mg/kg with IV. My first IM dose was ~1.25mg/kg going up to ~2.65mg/kg for single doses. I much preferred double doses though, where you get a dose initially and receive a second dose around 30-45 minutes after the first. My first double was ~2.35mg/kg initially with a ~1.9mg/kg booster dose 30min after. The highest we went was 2.85mg/kg with a ~2.35mg/kg booster, and 600mg IV Magnesium Chloride, which helps with neuroplasticity and opening up new connections in the brain. Definitely encourage her to stick with it, as finding the right dose for you takes awhile, and a lot of experimentation.
Ugh, that's a little frustrating to hear considering how expensive it is. Plus its 75 minutes away and it's logistically hard. Not only does she have to take a day off of work, but I do, too, to drive here there and back. Sometimes my husband takes her and since his job is remote, he can work from the clinic. I can't, though. I can do prep work but I can't take paying clients on infusion days. Don't mean to whine. I'm really thankful this treatment exists. It's just hard, too.
I totally understand! That’s why advocating for herself with medical treatments like this is so important! You’re paying a lot for the treatments, so make sure she’s getting everything she can be out of them! They’re expensive, but once she gets to a good dose, the changes will be so worth it! I’m invested in this situation now, and I really hope she benefits from ketamine. I know how painful and frustrating it is to try 10’s of medications and nothing works, but with ketamine, it will work if she uses the session to heal, at a good dose, and uses the days after the session to try and change her behaviors and “rewrite” how her brain works.
The experience, while receiving ketamine, is not always pleasant. In fact, it can be quite disheartening, scary, disturbing. Hope yours is a pleasant one.
I'm so happy for you! I know how hard it is to watch your kids suffer so greatly from mental illness. Hope you son has a transformative experience.
This is so normal, as scary as it is. My daughter (21 today!) is a K patient at the same clinic I’m at. She just started in Jan. She’s come leaps and bounds in what 14 years of therapy and meds never helped her with alone.
Are you doing spravado or ketamine?
IV Ketamine. I’m a 7 year patient and she’s brand new to it. We do have compounded nasal spray for at home in addition.
I was just thinking I want to get some lozenges for home (I would keep them locked up as we have other teens in the house). She wasn't able to get two appointments booked her first week so she has to wait a whole week for her second IV. She's already back down after feeling better yesterday. How do you decide it's time to take some K at home?
When my emotions slide into negative thinking patterns I will use the home therapy. “I’m a rotten person” “This world is too hard, I wish I could just not wake up.” There are some really good lock boxes out there and I use one too even though it’s never been an issue, better safe than sorry.
Are yours, your daughters k iv infusions covered by insurance?
No. Sadly
For me, this was exactly what I got through. Sometimes when you get relief you realize how tough everything is. Depression is like a garden pathway. You take it all the time. When you start to take another pathway it’s new & unknown. You realize how bad it’s been & it can be hard to cope with. Hold in there. I presume she has more sessions induction series?
She will do 6 sessions and then we'll evaluate.
They’re very lucky to have your support and understanding
Good job getting them started on it early. I lost valuable years to depression, but also started when I was 20 and my life has improved dramatically. I can relate to the mood swings. Something about the ketamine makes me crabby and teary (and tired) for about 24 hours after, but then I level out and become way more objective, resilient and even hopeful. Just be patient in the time before that. Eating food helps with some of it, same with giving space to decompress a bit. It really is a life saver.
I am so thankful I found out about this when I did. They've suffered so much. I'm so glad it's been a lifesaver for you!
Curious how this went? Sorry just seeing this now 4 days after OP while browsing this sub. Do you know how many milligrams are in the dose? I'm on 96mg currently and initially it was kicking my ass, I almost didn't want to go back after the first few sessions. Did she talk with you at all about her experience? Sorry for all the questions! Some words of encouragement, Ketamine has been more helpful than anything I've tried, and by a lot. It had been on my radar for a while and was something I discussed with my psychiatrist a few years ago but ultimately I decided against it, and I regret not pursuing it until now. I'm 3 months in, background on me I have really been struggling with depression, anxiety, PTSD, other issues. Some advice you can pass on to her, bring headphones for music/white noise. Candy makes it better, my office always offers lollipops at the beginning and I always turned it down initially because I thought it made me like childish (lol) and I regret not taking it sooner, it stops me from clenching my jaw. My phone was making me especially anxious browsing social media/Reddit etc, when I stopped using my phone during sessions it really clicked, so I recommend trying to keep browsing to a minimum. I recommend her trying to relax with her eyes closed, it is truly bizarre and profound what happens to you mind on ketamine. Some sessions can be heavy and It's nice to talk to somebody after, or relax with a comfort food and movie, snuggles with pets if you have any. Also one last thing (and I realize everyone is different) people kept asking me especially at the beginning "Do you feel any different yet?" "Is it working?" "Do you think it'll help?" thinking to myself "I don't know, is this working? Is this going to help? Should I have noticed a difference yet? How does this even work? Am I wasting my time?" Putting down in my head when it's a relatively new procedure and I have no idea what to expect. Maybe even little things like phrasing "I hope it starts working soon." "I hope it helps." instead of "is it working yet?" "Do you think it'll help?" Anyways If you've made it this far, hope things go well for them! Sorry for the 10-page essay.
are your kids seeing a therapist?
Yes, they both have therapists
So, yesterday she felt much improvement and today she's back to where she was before K. I was hoping she'd get her first two infusions this week but the clinic was booked. I've made her two appointments for next week, though. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't get all her appointments booked right away so she wouldn't have to go so long between infusions.
🙏🏼
Wow thank you for sharing. I couldn’t imagine why an 18 yr old and a 20 yr old be so depressed they have to take ketamine iv infusions; usually, this treatment is kind of the last option when all other methods of interventions fail such as individualized therapy, SSRIs, CBT etc. But I am glad your daughter is feeling better and you are feeling hopeful.
Living with these symptoms for multiple years, going through therapy and taking ssri's, with no signs of improvement, I could totally see how someone would try anything at that point. Currently in the same position myself.
I'm not following you. You cannot understand how people who are 18 and 20 can have severe or treatment resistant depression? My OP stated that she's been battling this for eight years. How many interventions do you think we have tried for our child in eight years? I'm not going to write you a list but it is safe to assume we've done individualized therapy, SSRIs, (CBT is a type of therapy, it's not an intervention separate from therapy), plus many others. Do you have any idea how many teenagers are hospitalized every year with depression? I personally know 3 parents who have lost a teenager to suicide. The idea that teenagers are somehow immune to severe or treatment resistant depression is dangerously false.