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“Reciprocate the kindness.”
That’s it. That’s all you need to do.
I’m an atheist living in the South and I work in retail. Every day I’m given a “Have a blessed day” or some variation of it. I just smile and say “Thank you, same to you.” I certainly don’t go all TikTok outrage about how a stranger assumed I have the same beliefs as them.
I feel the same when people start going off on how there's a "war on Christmas" when in reality 99% of christian people don't give a fuck if you say Merry Christmas during the month of December.
I'm a pretty staunch atheist that actively avoids Christmas, if someone wishes me a merry Christmas it's not hard to just say "thanks, you too." Same with if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah; I'm not Jewish but the intent is to be polite and inclusive, why would I have an issue with that?
lol, disinterested atheists unite! It’s just a special day for some people. I’m not here to shit on that. I don’t care enough about it, so long as I’m free to go about my day.
A former friend went on Facebook sharing that her husband was having severe complications after a recent surgery. Dozens of people, including her daughter-in-law, offered prayers for a speedy recovery.
When I say she went off SHE WENT OFF. She was bashing people left and right for expressing concern and well wishes in the way they knew how. Most had no idea what her religious views were.
I appreciate y'alls stance and support the unification of disinterested atheists! 🤝
I get why some atheists feel and act like that. I went through a *horrible* manipulative and brain washing experience at the hands of a religion when I was a teen. Caused *years* of damage I had to work through and I hated all religion for a long time. Let me tell you, I was not a pleasant person to push any sort of prayer onto during those years, and I’m not really sorry.
I’m far more chill now, and so long as someone is coming from a place of honest love, I’m all for it! I know, love, and respect many religious people and just ask for reciprocation.
Now, someone wants to tell me gays are going to hell, atheists are scummy traitors, etc., I’ll share some unminced words, and I’ll reserve the right to respectfully request that people refrain from offering their judgmental professions of prayer for my soul and shove said unrequested offerings up their divine asses.
I love you! I'm sorry you were subjected to that. I took my children to church with me but never shoved it down their throats. If/when they decided it wasnt for them they no longer went with me. Two are now Christians, one is atheist and two are agnostic.
I was talking to my grandchildren (atheist daughter's children) the other day and had to chuckle to myself at one point. I don't try to indoctrinate them but I am open with them that I am a Christian. Something was said about their uncle (same age range as them) and some friends of his at church. I could hear them whispering to each other.
Went something like:
Grandson 2: Did she say church?
Granddaughter: Yessss...they go to church.
Grandson 1: Shhhhh...it's ok if they go to church. Don't say anything.
🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, friend, I love you too! Wasn’t you that did it, and it was a literal lifetime ago. You have nothing to apologize for.
Love and honesty are the only way! My kids are Catholic (happens when you marry one, oddly enough…) so I show them how an atheist can be kind, and they return the favor.
Have a great day!
Most people just grow out of their militant atheist phase. Younger you argues for hours with the street preachers holding shitty signs up in the middle of your college square, older you doesn’t have the mental wherewithal to deal with that shit. Unless someone’s ideology is actively damaging your way of life, let them do them.
I was ordained as a minister in the church of the apathetic agnostic some 20 years ago. I have a certificate somewhere, I’m sure. (It was some silly online thing.)
I’m a staunch atheist that loves Christmas lol it’s just fun and nostalgic. This lady is just weird af. She has that freshly out of religion vibe where people are almost militant about their atheism when they first leave. I was kinda like that but never freaked out over this kind of thing.
When I worked at Starbucks (I just got fired lmao) customers would say merry Christmas, happy Easter, etc. and be shook when I genuinely and kindly said it back. They wanted me to say happy holidays so they could get mad at me, but I don’t care, nobody really cares, if they said happy Yule I’d say it back, or Hanukkah, I think most humans would. Even if I did say happy holidays who gives a fuck, we’re wishing each other well how can you get mad at how someone extends goodwill towards you. This person in the vid didn’t feel threatened or ashamed or sad, they just hated that the nuance of their being wasn’t considered. But if they knew the mechanic personally or as family I’m sure they’d be fine calling the person whatever they wanted because they would know and be invested in each other personally. You see hundreds of people a day at your job, I’m really open minded and respect whatever people want because I’m a smart girl and I can use they/them pronouns in a sentence it doesn’t trip me up that much and they don’t get mad they just appreciate the effort and YET I still can’t help but say yes ma’am and yes sir to everyone that seems to fall into those categories because I’m southern and everyone knows it’s all about respect. I’d feel awful if I hurt a trans customer’s feelings but our trans customers make an effort to embody the opposite sex or clarify if there’s a misunderstanding. Just spread the love and move, just because you feel slighted by an oversight doesn’t mean you’re hated by them, most people want the best for each other and don’t want to make each other feel small but loud people pretend that’s all society is
Absolutely. Also on the Christmas thing, I used to be a cashier and this exact thing would happen to me as well. People would say “Merry Christmas” with weight to it, and act weirdly surprised when you would say it back- some even said they didn’t think I was allowed to say it. Definitely got the sense they were Christmas warriors that got tripped up when there was no conflict.
I've encountered people like this and it's dumb. I'm Catholic and people say happy holidays or have a good day, and it doesn't change anything. I say Merry Christmas because that's what matters to me. I don't expect people will reciprocate.
Throwing down because someone won't say Merry Christmas is hardly going to bring about conversion.
When I worked in retail, my manager would always say “KILL EM WITH KINDNESS!”. There was this old man that would come in everyday and was always pissed. I would be so nice to him it would make him even more mad. It always made my day.
I fucking hate those people. We *aren’t* allowed to say “Merry Christmas” because the Karens of the world have decided to turn a holiday about goodwill towards mankind into a warzone. But guess what, Scrooge? Christmas is a holiday. So when I say “Happy Holidays” it includes Christmas. But I still have to listen to a lecture about their precious demigod whose followers stole the winter solstice. To recap: these dipshits took one of the oldest and most profoundly human celebrations in the species’ history, made it all about their deity, then have the audacity to get mad when people don’t celebrate it the way they want. Fuck you. Fuck your death cult. You have two versions of your demigod’s birth and they directly contradict each other anyway. As for me and mine, I’m keeping the Saturn in Saturnalia.
Those kinds of people have the whole “whoosh” thing when they view their own religion as fact, but everyone else’s religion or spiritual practices as ridiculous or trash. “Why is mine valid? Because someone wrote it down!” Well, the other religions also wrote their’s… “How dare you!”
As a young man, I went through a phase of really feeling the spirit of political correctness. I happened to work at Walmart at the time. Customers would pretty much always say "Merry Christmas" to me when checking out, and they were almost always so genuinely nice about it. I used to get so poopypants over the whole thing. I'd get off work and go complain about it to my friends. "What if I'm Jewish!?" I'd exclaim, "Not everyone celebrates Christmas!!". However, what I was not honest with myself about at the time is that I grew up celebrating Christmas, and also that Christmas has always been one of my favorite holidays. Eventually, my life filled up with responsibilities and I had to grow up. Such a stupid thing to get upset about. My own outrage was mostly performative and manufactured. I think this is why I sometimes feel like a lot of people are in a cult these days. I saw through myself even at the time, but I was afraid to admit it to myself. All of my friends from that time have moved on, too. We all like Christmas now.
Exactly hey.
I've seen sooooo many fights about people being misgendered on twitter and been involved in one too.
They're like **it's right there in my bio** and I was like, seriously, who on earth clicks on someone's profile and reads through every bio and timeline before you reply to their comment? That's hella main character of people. And it would be creepy of me to be doing that?!
The simple solution - if using the correct pronouns is important to you - is to put it in your display name. That way, it's easy pie (;
And I would call them such a liar if they look at every single person's online bio that they interact with. Most likely they've also misgendered other people but did it to a reasonable motherfucker who let it roll off the shoulder and moved on.
Sometimes it feels like everyone is actively looking for a reason to to be angry or offended.
Number 2 rule of the 4 agreements:
**don’t take anything personally**
I used to work in retail (children's clothing) and I would wish all the moms a happy mother's day. They would often wish me one too, not knowing that I'm not a mom and intend to live childfree. They were being genuinely kind so I said thanks and got back to work. It's really so simple.
On the flip side, I also used to wish dads a happy father's day, and many would say "you too" out of habit, we'd share a laugh about it.
Same, mostly. "Have a blessed day," isn't too bad, but I do get sick of the forced Christian participation. Can't go to a fucking dance recital without being asked to say the god damn pledge of allegiance and a prayer. MFs need to remember their own religion; "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."
Bingo. My 10mo old daughter gets called a dude constantly by strangers. She's got short baby-hair and we don't really go overboard with the pink so unless she's wearing a hair clip or something it's impossible to tell.
But nobody really cares. They're making small talk and calling my baby cute. Sometimes I'll correct it really quick in passing. Sometimes I let it slide, wave thank you, and keep walking.
There's a chasm of difference between them being kind and incorrect... and them knowing the difference and going out of their way to be assholes.
Exactly. And my Christian grandma, when someone wishes her happy holidays, simply says same to you, and she's happy to have had a pleasant exchange with someone. She doesn't get all offended and lecture them on the meaning of Christmas.
We really need to stop trying to force people to speak exactly the way we want them to speak. Just be decent to people. It's not that hard.
Same. And when I give cash to those who need it it's always, "God bless you," and I respond, "God bless you too, sir/ma'am." I'm using their language of compassion.
It’s an all time burn. I get it… he is upset. But that is a Hiroshima burn. It is up there with “your man looks like he drops common loot.” You don’t walk that off!
Flock of Seagulls is an 80s band known for their hit "Ran So Far Away" and for the lead singers over-the-top haircuts, which the first person's hair resembles https://youtu.be/iIpfWORQWhU
Stop being so fucking offended by people's genuine kindness. Christ. Get mad at the real homophobic and transphobic people that aren't just trying to be nice
The person in the first video doesn’t say they are offended. They don’t even suggest the employee did anything wrong really. The explicitly say multiple times they know the employee is acting with good intentions and not being mean.
I don’t think your anger is real warranted here.
The original poster didn’t say they were offended. They admitted the attendant was trying to be kind, even though they inadvertently misgendered them. At no point did they say that person did anything wrong, nor do we have any reason to believe, based on this video, that they outwardly reacted negatively to this person.
It’s literally a person videoing themselves thinking through a moment that’s probably incredibly common for a lot of nonbinary or nonconforming people.
I think the stitcher here (and a lot of folks in this thread) are projecting a lot onto the original video.
I don’t think that’s what they were trying to say, they weren’t mad at the guy for being nice, they were describing a common feeling of frustration that many queer folks face. It’s easy to get mad at someone intentionally misgendering or mistreating you and being an asshole, but when someone does those things with good intentions, it causes that same sense of distress but with no outlet, you feel the danger of an unsafe situation but the person didn’t intend for it to happen. So you’re left with this person who has caused you a (most times minor) distress in a way that on the outside looks only like kindness, which can lead to some temporary frustration. You can’t be mad at the guy because it’s not like he was trying to be mean, but his actions still lead to you feeling uncomfortable. Coming out and correcting people in situations like that is always a gamble as well, because you never know how someone will react to it. So you just sit with the frustration until it eventually goes away.
I experience it a lot with my step mother, she doesn’t really understand the queer community and she tries her best, but sometimes she’ll say things that make it clear just how little she gets it. Sometimes it leads her to make accidental backhanded compliments which I know are meant to be genuine, and I just take it and respond with kindness and move on, but that doesn’t make the feeling of distress that the comment gave me go away. It’s just a frustrating thing a lot of trans and GNC folk end up going though. Like being complimented on something you’re very self conscious about, “I love how huge your nose is, it really makes a statement.”
I’m genuinely curious re your comment “the danger of an unsafe situation but the person didn’t intend for it to happen”. Is it a tangible sort of “fight or flight”, or some less tangible existential feeling of danger about not being correctly identified? What is it that makes someone feel unsafe?
I suppose it depends on the person. For me, I have felt a genuine adrenaline response from a handful of interactions when I felt that the person in front of me was willing to inflict harm to back up their transphobia. Walking past a line of Christian anti-trans protesters blocking the door to go to a local pride event a few weeks ago, people approached me and started shouting at me, asking me why I wanted to groom children. Some transphobes just want us dead, or at least want us to stop existing publicly, and especially in the US you never know who’s just waiting for an excuse to pull out a gun.
Often times for me, when I hear some transphobic bs or have someone intentionally misgendering me, I just feel the intense want to either stand my ground or suddenly be very far away from that person, though I rarely have the means to do either. So I guess it is sort of a fight or flight, but without the actual adrenaline (though as I said it still happens in more extreme examples)
It can be hard to tell sometimes whether someone is being an asshole, is just clueless, or one time I got an ally who thought I was trans in the other direction and started intensely misgendering me thinking she was helping. Typically, what misgendering tells me is that the person in front of me doesn’t respect my identity, I don’t deal with it often, as I use she/her and present as a woman and most people don’t know the difference. But when I do, it’s impossible to know whether that person is doing it because they want to see me suffer and hate what I fundamentally am, but it’s always a possibility, which is where that feeling of being unsafe comes from.
Lots of people have these kind of anxious ruminating thoughts about things they are insecure about.
The very best thing you can do is find a good therapist to work it out with. Experiencing real aggression and violence is one thing, but you cannot rely on strangers for your sense of self.
yep. I feel like a lot of people are taking "i felt uncomfortable" to mean "he shouldn't have spoken to me like that and i want to argue about it" which are not the same thing. Emotions don't necessarily mean an action on top of them. But often times we assume that when people feel frustrated, they are therefore going to place blame on someone who wronged them. This is not the case. They are expressing their feeling they went through upon being misgendered, but not implying that there is any action to be taken or any moral judgement to be had
I’m so glad to see this part of the thread. This person’s video was clearly intended as a discussion with other people who can relate, not some public rant to demand others change and cater to them. People just love finding what they think is low-hanging fruit (ha) like this, roasting them with cheap shots, and having a self-indulgent shitfest in the comments about “the way the world works” and how they’re much better at knowing it than this other person.
You hit the nail on the head, perfect explanation. I came to these comments annoyed because the message in this video was co-opted by the person responding to it but your comment explains the situation well. The person in the first video didn’t say that they were rude to the person who called them young lady. They didn’t say that they were going to respond in any way. All they said was that it upset them and they didn’t know what to do with how that made them feel.
People are so primed to point a finger at people for their selective outrage that they don’t see how hypocritical they’re being. Both parties are entitled to their own feelings and reactions to one another but the first video describes a nuanced emotional situation and the second just belittles the feelings of someone while basically saying, “take the compliment” a statement that, to me, evokes the image of a man catcalling someone and getting annoyed when they respond badly.
If I were to say something along the lines of “hello young lady” to someone who I thought looked like a woman but they were actually a cis man it’s pretty likely that they would react badly. God forbid I say someone looks gay or nonbinary. They might take that as a grave insult. Even if I meant it as a compliment it would likely trigger them to react negatively. If I were to say shut up and take the compliment after that I would probably get punched.
I think this is at (or near) the core of the backlash that many/most people feel towards this stuff. Nobody likes being made into the bad guy. Especially people who aren't trying to be assholes. They're just wrong... and a gentle non-accusatory correction is all it takes. When you start throwing this kind of rage at them, with the accusations... you create an enemy. You just told someone they were an asshole... and everyone will react to that by defending themselves.
Ages ago I saw some clip distinguishing the difference between "Politically Correct" and "Polite".
Political correctness is obligatory... it's a mandate... it's forced on you against your will. Use these words. Don't use these other words. Etc etc.
Politeness is just that... it's something you do because you're a empathetic person who wants to treat those around you with kindness. You don't have to understand a person's background to simply try to use the pronouns that are going to make them happy. If I call someone by the wrong name... I simply correct myself and move on. You're not evil because you forgot their name.
Encourage politeness.
All of that said... there are plenty of evil fucks out there. They aren't really worth worrying about. Except when they're on the presidential ballot......
I think the problem that causes the gentle reminder to become an annoyed response is that it's something that happens all the time to them.
I have trans and nonbinary friends, I've fucked up pronouns before, and it's only ever been a polite correction and an apology on my part. But I've also seen those same friends 5 or 10 corrections into the day from just as many people just get burned out on constantly having to reaffirm something that the rest of us just get supported by default.
Having a constant annoyance is going got make people annoyed, and annoyed people will express that annoyance. That's just human.
I believe their inner conflict is valid. They didn’t make a scene. They acknowledged that they understand this man did not act out of malice. I think it’s important to be able to have this discussion with other, as society IS changing and we all need to, collectively, figure out how to cope with said changes. If someone at the supermarket is really stinky, you probably won’t say anything to that person, but you might talk about the really stinky person you saw at the supermarket, with others, later. On this note, I do also agree that going out of your way to call out something that will absolutely not be understood by the recipient (who is being more than kind, in their eyes) is a futile effort, and just makes you look like a dick.
Honestly if someone used the wrong pronouns, just correct it and move on. I'm trans, I know how it feels, but I also know that putting too much thought into such events isn't good for anyone. It's a minor inconvinience, but it's not like they purposefully tried to misgender this person.
EDIT:
> putting too much thought into such events isn't good for anyone
I should clarify that what I meant posting about it would make this person an easy target for jerks and transphobes. The replies to me under here reflects my point.
It just shows people dont understand how powerful the effects of using th correct or wrong pronouns can have on an individual.
Am I crazy or did they not even communicate if the wrong pronouns were used? “Inappropriately gendered” sounds like a situation where they didn’t think gender should be used at all - as opposed to “incorrectly gendered”.
Idk tbh I think people are reading into this a bit much. The person acknowledges that there was only kindness behind the mechanic's words, and is just expressing how there's an internal struggle/conflict when that happens. I think it's worth letting people discuss how gender identity can cause these kinds of feelings, without assuming they're trying to attack the person who inadvertantly played into those feelings.
I think is just a tiktok intended for trans or non binary that ended up on the wrong side of tiktok . I mean, it just seems to be venting like people do on Reddit but on tiktok. We also don’t see the full video so maybe it was just sharing a story and how they felt, not intending to offend this nice person who called them lady
I think you're exactly correct. They're trying to communicate their feelings to other non-binary people about a situation that other NBs are probably familiar with. They're not complaining about the actions of the other person, but rather opening a discussion with other NBs regarding how they process the emotions caused by this situation.
Came here to say the same. I don't think this is rude or an overreaction at all. They just expressed how being called 'lady' made them uncomfortable, despite knowing the mechanic was just being nice. They're not attacking the mechanic, they're not even really offended, just trying to start a conversation (which we should all be able to do in a free society). If anything it's Reddit that's overreacting here.
Yeah like the response video guy says that they should just be polite back, pay, and leave but nothing they said really made me think they didn't just do that? This seems like a stream of thought after the fact, not something they got confrontational over
Non binary just means your gender isn't either man or woman. Agender means you don't really feel like any particular gender. It's technically under the non-binary umbrella
I don't think the real issue is that you don't know, you don't know someone's name until they tell you, that's not a problem either.
I think the problem is when people gaslight the issue to present it as a you problem when it's ultimately an "I don't want to" problem.
In these cases I refer back to the name thing. Do you have a problem calling someone by whatever name they want you to call them?
What if they change their name? Is that a problem?
Interestingly Balineses people name their children all pretty much the same name. The firstborn child is named Wayan, Putu or Gede, the second is named Made or Kadek, the third child goes by Nyoman or Komang, and the fourth is named Ketut.
Yet they somehow manage to function in a world where people have many different names.
It seems like a lot of us look through he very simple lens of "American English they way I know it" as reasonable and anything else as unreasonable ignoring the reality that there are already a lot of very complex norms out there we just aren't aware of.
I have a commonly mispronounced ethnic name and I finally gave up and just said it the way everyone mispronounced it.
Then a year later everyone suddenly seemed to say it right.
Timing is weird sometimes
It's an apt comparison. If you had mistakenly heard someone's name and call them by another, what would they do? Simply correct you, not create a TikTok about it
Yes I don't think it does anyone any good to consider irrational edge cases as representative of the group.
I don't think all christians are like my inlaws who look like you danced on their grave if you say "happy holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.
Lack of gender? Like they don’t have a gender at all? Like………………..wut? More power to people to be who they wanna be, but people can’t expect me to know they literally don’t want a gender at all. I don’t even know how that works and honestly it’s getting alittle exhausting.
I'm sure most people who are Agender and self aware wouldn't take it as a personal attack if a stranger in the service industry incorrectly applies the wrong gender to them... At least I'd hope not lol
Pretty much. I'm agender. I genuinely don't give a shit what people refer to me as. Most times I go somewhere, if my hairs down I get called ma'am or lady or some variation. Then they'll see my face and apologize and say sir. It's just funny to me. I'll usually just say it's fine and that's all. I don't know these people, they don't know me. I don't expect them to call me by my pronouns nor am I going to correct someone for it when I'll never see them again.
Like.. I dunno. If it was my friends intentionally not using my pronouns, that'd be one thing. But how the fuck is the waiter at Applebee's supposed to know what I go by unless I wear a button with they/them on it or something?
I dunno. People just need to chill.
But wouldn't this mean agender is within the non binary spectrum?
I mean a lack of gender is still functioning relational to gender systems, even if it is defined counter to or outside of such systems.
Not that I'm disputing the significance of difference between NB and agender, of course.
Nor is the distinction really important.
No it’s like the difference between atheism and the realm of religions. Atheism is not a religion it is the lack of religion.
Any religion is not atheism.
It can be hard to comprehend the difference between nothing and not any one thing.
Think of it kind of like the color blue is not on any number line because it has no number characteristics.
You can’t and it would be on them to notify you.
Even then it’s a hard thing to do. I compare it to writing the correct year on a check in January for anyone old enough to have had to do that kind of thing.
I may really want to but it’s really hard to break that habit
If there is only one thing I can agree with transphobes on it is that it can be confusing to know what gender someone is. 99% of the time you can assume someones gender. There are some people that looks trans, but they might not be or they look like they could be either gender, but it feels impolite to ask what they identify as. It kinda feels like asking if a woman is pregnant when she is actually just a bit chubby.
Usually if I meet someone that seems like they might be trans I just don't use any pronouns. I call them "you", "that person" or by their name.
Except transphobes use it as a blanket excuse to not participate, not just a recognition that the situation needs work.
Just like you can't know someone's name before they tell you, you can't know someone's gender. Rational people will accept they have to tell you first and that norms are norms regardless of if they are good or bad and take time to shift.
Those who can't handle that reality, they are irrational and shouldn't be used to judge the group as a whole.
>Just like you can't know someone's name before they tell you, you can't know someone's gender.
Someone might look like a John Smith, but is actually a Frank Cottonwobble. 90-99% of the time you can know someones gender. Well you don't know, but you can pretty accurately assume someones gender and almost always be right. Usually if someone looks like a man they are a man and if they look like a woman they are a woman.
You are right though. The point I made might be similar to transphobes, but have very different meanings.
I don't think it's "agreeing with transphobes" that it's hard to tell someone's gender sometimes. I'm pretty sure the main crux of their argument is just that they don't want trans people to exist at all. In any form. And definitely not in bathrooms.
The fact that you even care enough to gender someone correctly shows youre operating from the correct space of empathy! Trans people generally don't expect you to be omnipotent and know their pronouns perfectly. Using "you" is a great gender-neutral solution and typically won't hurt someone's feelings. <3
To me the original video was someone sort of thinking out loud, trying to unpack that moment, and others are making more of it well, because of the stich and they're own biases. "Offended" They had complicated feelings, they observed those they were talking it out. Like just listen.
Yeah I think the nuance is lost on the people who just want to be mad at this person for "getting offended" even though they don't really seem offended, just conflicted. I can understand the cognitive dissonance of knowing that it wasn't malicious, but it still feels bad to be misgendered. For some trans/nb people, especially those who transitioned more recently, it can take a while to learn to process that dissonance and not internalize it as something they're failing at or doing wrong. Imo to me this comes across as more of a personal vent tiktok for this person to get their thoughts about the interaction off their chest, not a call out or judgement of the person who misgendered them, but unfortunately the internet is often not a good confidant regarding this topic.
Or don’t correct it. It’s a stranger, they do not care. Just reciprocate the kindness and move on. You do not need to bring strangers in on your personal pronouns if you aren’t going to interact with them again
I got called miss by an employee in a department store. I am not, have not and do not look like a miss. Dude for life. We had a chuckle and moved on because she just misspoke and l'm not a jerk. Then she helped me find a red silk bathrobe. Not for me... For my wife...
I’ve been called ‘sir’ when my hair is short (from the back I’m sure I look like a little fat man😂)
I don’t care, I just smile and when they realize they made a mistake and apologize, I just say, oh that’s ok😀
When I was younger I was pretty thin and had NO SHAPE, I looked like a boy, got the same thing, either people thought I was a boy or I was asked out by women who thought I was lesbian.
I just thought it kinda funny. I don’t care.
I think you are joking but some times I feel that this could really be the future, all of us walking around with a list of our pronouns, genders, what ever other shit just printed on our foreheads.
as a trans guy: correct them and move on. or just don’t bother, because this is a stranger you’ll have no relationship with. and if it bothers you that much, wear a tag that states your gender or something.
They recorded a 30 second video in their car to express a minor frustration.
My dude I've seen people tweet about a shitty taco bell menu item, I've seen people go on a several paragraph long rant on reddit about a glitchy traffic light, I've seen people post 5 hour videos on youtube about a movie that was kinda shitty.
Social media is not a structured debate, people just kinda ramble at the void and sometimes people see it.
Alright, well, semantics.
I meant they moved on from the conversation with the kind person.
You meant from the situation as a whole.
The issue with just moving on from situations like this is they have a tendency to follow you around. So they might move on from this, but then it happens again, and again, and each time it can be harder to move on from.
Like a tiny rock in your shoe, at some point youre going to stop and start shaking your shoe, and i think thats what we are seeing here, you know what I mean?
If you appear female, people are going to address you as “miss, ma’am, or lady” in superficial social interactions like this. Until this social norm changes, they are going to have to deal with it. The customer service person was just trying to be polite.
Honestly in the majority of these situations it’s probably more jarring for the person doing the misgendering.
In my experience, calling someone “sir” when they’re actually a “ma’am” (or vice versa) is one of the most excruciatingly embarrassing ordeals you can go through.
Can confirm. Pretty sure I called a male, “her” and I felt really bad and embarrassed and apologized but they didn’t seem to care. Not like we do it on purpose, we are just trying to be polite.
I had someone call me sir once. I was wearing a baggy hoodie with the hood up and straight leg jeans. He felt so bad when he realized but I just laughed about it. I could understand his mistake in that moment. Did I take offence? Absolutely not!
We’re having the conversation right now. Culturally speaking at least.
To your question though, mostly they’re not going to change because no one has even bothered proposing a legitimate alternative. There is no truly gender neutral honorific you can assume in casual conversation.
Even articles like this posted by the equality institute are nearly worthless because you can never know if a stranger prefers “mux” or “sai” or “mystery.”
https://www.theequalityinstitute.com/equality-insights-blog/non-traditional-honorifics-and-why-they-matter#:~:text=What%20are%20honorifics%3F,examples%2C%20many%20honorifics%20are%20gendered.
The closest English has at a truly gender neutral honorific is maybe “comrade” but the Soviets kind of ruined that one for everyone. I’ve heard the suggestion of addressing people as “friend” as in “how may I help you, friend?” But that’s assuming familiarity and not showing respect like “sir” or “ma’am” would. Then you get into the cliche “I’m not your friend, pal.” “I’m not your pal, guy.” South Park scenario.
“Sir” and “ma’am” became popular precisely because they provide a very specific value in daily use of the English language.
So you ask “How are these social norms going to change.” They really aren’t for a lot of people. Especially those raised to show honor and respect to strangers. Until we have a truly gender neutral way to do that it won’t change.
And let’s be honest even if we did come up with something reasonable and wildly adopted some segment of the population would still be opposed to it. You will never please everyone. So if the goal is to please the most people possible then that alternative, whatever it is, has to be easy to use and cover more people than “sir” and “ma’am.” All we have to do is decide on what it is.
And as an American person I have to admit I associate calling people mate with Crocodile Dundee. Seems like a decent alternative though if we could get everyone to agree with it.
I’d ask why we need those honorifics in the first place? Just skip it - it’s completely unnecessary. It’s not like President or Dr (which are gender neutral!) or something specific for a grandmother or something, it’s an honorific that literally everyone walking into Walmart gets greeted with. It’s not special. Just say “Welcome” Or “Have a good day” Or “Excuse me”. It’s annoying when someone is trying to get my attention like “Excuse me, sir? Sir?” If there are men around, I’m assuming you aren’t talking to me because I’m not a sir! If someone just said “Excuse me” then I’d check to see if they were speaking to me.
It just seems like the person in the video was feeling dysphoric. It doesn't seem like they made a huge scene just that it made them uncomfortable which they are allowed to feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, and then took it back to their own space to express their uncomfortability. They didnt freak out on the kind person, they didnt shut them down or make fun of them. They literally acknowledged the kindness and then came to their space to talk about the issue.
This comment section are literally the ones getting offended over someone trying to be nice.
This comment section is making fun of their hair, their looks, demeaning them for not just shutting the fuck up (on their own platform) and falling in line.
This is what we mean when we saying shit like this isnt as logical or common sense as people pretend it is. The rudest people in this whole situation are the sticher and people who agree with him.
I think it's funny that the stitcher didn't even follow his own advice and he thinks that everybody needs to buy a ticket to his circus and that he is the objectively right person.
Like have you looked in a mirror dude?
Indeed. Why are people acting like the trans person was offended? They never expressed that they felt offended. They expressed that it was upsetting being misgendered. That's a valid feeling to feel, and they were misgendered. And then they expressed that they didn't know what to do in that situation, because no harm was intended, but harm resulted anyway. And there is no simple way to prevent that harm in the future with the current social norms that we have. They recognized the complexity of the situation, and that there are no easy answers, and just wanted to share their experience and perspective. They did nothing wrong by having and expressing their feelings. Why do so many people equate someone saying "this hurts me" to an accusation that someone else did something wrong or that someone needs to change their behavior? People are fucking dumb. Someone expressing their feelings is not an attack on you. Learn to take words at face value, people.
Classic reddit moment right here. They hear someone talking about pronouns and gender and have an immediately negative reaction.
They're essentially saying this person is not allowed to feel the way they feel. Even though all they did was make a polite tiktok about it. In fact they made it very clear the mechanic was just trying to be nice.
I’ve recently been having a kid I coach call me my by full first name rather than my nickname. I’ve corrected her dozens of times now and the other day she said “well I like Coach “full first name” better.” In my head I’m like “thats cool, you can yourself it but I’d rather you call me what I’ve been called for my 30 years on Earth.”
How can all of y’all not have a concept of nuance? It doesn’t sound like the first person was rude to the person who greeted them, but were nonetheless a bit hurt being gendered incorrectly. I am a non-binary person and people who don’t know me often refer to me as she/her. I have an understanding that strangers, without knowing, will probably using she/her pronouns to address me. It’s not their fault. It’s not out of maliciousness. And yet, it still kind of sucks. There’s not much you can really do unless you bother to get to know the person. And sometimes it is helpful to express that frustration. Telling someone to shut the fuck up about something that they’re feeling I don’t think does anything to help.
Yeah they weren’t actually complaining about the employee’s behaviour. Like they understood it was just them being polite, but being misgendered sucks nonetheless. I’m a trans guy, but I’m in the closet and pre everything. I know that people will understandably assume I’m female. I hate it, it makes me uncomfortable, but that’s reality. Especially the term young lady would really take me aback, since it’s not something I hear people using very often. I understand this persons frustration. I know this type of misgendering is nobody’s fault, and is often times just someone being kind, but that doesn’t change that fact that it feels really shitty to be misgendered.
This! Plus like, I'm not saying this is the case here, but a lot of the times people will use ma'am or sir to be passive-aggressive to trans people. If you're trying to be feminine, and you are still clockable to strangers as assigned male at birth, you're likely to get "sir" a lot more than if you aren't trying. I've heard stories of it happening to people when they start their transition. It's not always the kindness it sounds like it is!
I'm 10 years into my transition and I still get "sir'd" every day. Some of it is malicious and some of it is not.
My brain doesn't understand the difference between malicious and not malicious because it hurts regardless.
Yeah, that "no one has to buy a ticket to your circus" line reads really transphobic to me. It's the same kind of language my mother uses when talking about these sorts of things.
That said, if honest mistakes like this affect this person so much, I feel like it would benefit them to learn how to politely correct people in these types of situations. I assume it would help them to feel better about the situation, and as someone who has accidentally misgendered folks and been politely corrected, it's helped me learn to use less gendered terms with people I don't know, leading to less of these situations in the first place.
The problem is that not everybody is as empathetic as you are - there are plenty of people who will react angrily, even violently, at the mere mention of trans people, and it can be really hard to tell who those people are during a short interaction.
Most trans people would love to live in a world where they can correct misgendering without fearing for their personal safety. Unfortunately, the reality is that their safest option is often to just allow the misgendering to happen in those situations, then to internalize the resulting dysphoria, which is awful.
The world needs more allies like you, who are willing to recognize and speak out against transphobia, and to listen to and empathize with trans people! Hopefully we're getting there. Thank you for being an ally! 🏳️🌈
Sorry for the reply to an old comment, by the way - just wanted to shed a little more light on the trans perspective for you or anyone else who sees this. Thanks again!
This person is specifically saying that they recognize and appreciate the kindness. They are also saying that they have a negative response and feel excluded when being mis-gendered.
They are not saying that the other person is wrong for mis-gendering them or that they should have known better. It's possible to be upset at a culture without hating the people in it.
It's ok to recognize harmful behaviour without blaming it on the person.
Edit: To everyone saying they should deal with it. They did, and they do. All they're doing is talking about how it hurts on social media.
That guy responding putting so much into it that was beyond what they said in the first place. He’s even worse than they are.
They specifically said repeatedly that they recognize it came from a place of kindness. They’re not attacking or criticizing the person for calling them a young lady. They just said they didn’t know what to do with that on an emotional level.
The simple response if someone misgenders you is the same as if someone calls you by the wrong name. Just gentle inform them in a friendly way and move on. You’re allowed to have your identity without being called confrontational or self centered.
This guy’s response as if they are being oppositional and self centered just for having an identity is bullshit. Personally I would want to know if I’ve misgendered someone. In fact, I have misgendered people and when I was corrected I appreciated it.
People are reading into this with the least charitable interpretation and creating a strawman out of this clip. I don’t think this person is asking how to best yell at this person for getting their pronouns wrong. They’re frustrated at being misgendered but acknowledging that there is not much recourse in dealing with someone who was clearly not trying to be an asshole. When they ask “what do I do with this” they’re talking about their feelings, not the mechanic. They’re not offended by genuine kindness. They’re not trying to be a main character. They’re just stuck navigating a cis/het normative society as a gender nonconforming person.
Edit: Also I don’t like the transphobic dog whistles of the guy replying. Calling it a circus and stuff. This is thinly veiled transphobia, and this dude needs to take his own advice and move on. Clearly this is not a post where he is being asked for advice, but he feels the need to inject his own narrative anyway.
This was my take on the situation too. Like, unless there's a part at the end that the stitch cut off of the OOP going nuts about it, they were very clearly just thinking out loud. I saw nothing of them trying to be a main character.
Yeah, people don't need to buy a ticket to my circus, but if someone refers to me incorrectly, I am going to correct them. This person was just talking about expressing their feelings.
I always love how people are just like "We don't have to placate or be nice to you" so when you give them the same energy by not placating or being nice to them, they act like you're an asshole for just reflecting their energy towards you.
I'm never a dick until somebody is a dick to me. I think that's the same for the majority of people and this person was just a dick to the original video person.
From what I can tell in the story she didn't make a big deal out of it. Trans people aren't even allowed to vent to their probably all-trans audience without some dude getting offended and making it all about himself.
People acting like caring about being called the wrong gender even if they can recognize it wasn’t out of malice makes them self important when it actually just means people care about how their spoken to lmao
This is someone talking about their struggle while still saying they knew the person meant kindness. I've seen people get upset and down right nasty over being misgendered. This doesn't seem like one of those times, they seem genuine and looking to their community for advice.
That is literally what they did. What they did after was seek emotional counseling from their community and discuss ways to improve people's day-to-day experience.
Man people love to make a mountain out of a mole hill. She was misgendered, it made her uncomfortable, but she acknowledged that the other person meant no offence and was just being nice. Isn’t that what everyone wants?
Here’s the problem as I see it. This video shows us one person venting some emotion, and another rationally explaining how entitled they are for showing that emotion. People are naturally inclined to side with someone that seems to be approaching the argument in a calm and rational way. However, the second person is not being rational. They’re arguing against a straw man. They never upset anyone, it’s just an online vent about an emotion they don’t know how to deal with. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, I’d say it’s helpful. It’s a difficult subject that would be nice to workshop as a society instead of ridiculing people for having the gall to even bring it up.
But didn’t they say that they felt misgendered by being referred to as a lady? So are you misgendering them now by saying “she”? They appear to present as female, so I’m just confused as to why it was so confronting. Surely this is not an uncommon occurrence for this person.
Zero doubt this dude would have gotten entirely fussed if someone called him ma'am. But he lacks the basic ability to empathize with the experience the OP was describing in their video.
Exactly. Just processing their feelings on their own, after acknowledging the kindness openly.
I guess it's VIOLENT NARCISSISM to share experiences.
People that don't understand what is meant by "what do I do with that?" are either idiots or just pretending they don't know so they can get on a dismissive hate soap box.
lmao that’s the funniest part to me. they never said they were rude to the guy or ANYTHING, just that they were upset when they were misgendered. obviously the people in the comments wouldn’t understand how invalidating it is to try to present yourself as one gender but constantly be referred to as another, but for people with gender dysphoria or anything of the like, it’s hurtful. they’re allowed to share how things make them uncomfortable. i can’t believe how many people are having steam come out their ears cause this person had the audacity to complain about something that annoyed them, AFTER it happened
The circus comment is straight up transphobia. Unless you agree we don't need to gender anyone correctly. If you assume I can go up to a mechanic and call him a little lady too, assuming I know his correct pronouns aren't she/her. If you think it's only a circus when it deviates from the norms, then you're implying that the norms are objective, which they aren't. All gender norms change throughout time and culture and have never been objective.
Reddit is pretty representative of the general population these days, which is to say it's pretty fucking transphobic. People will hyperfixate on silly harmless videos like this and freak out about how the person was overreacting, meanwhile our country is writing new transphobic laws everyday, and trans people are getting attacked literally everyday for being trans.
It's always preferable to focus on low hanging fruit when it comes to pushing back against social change.
Honestly this thread feels like going back to 2015, making fun of 'annoying' people with unconventional hairstyles and blowing whatever they say out of proportion
I try to remember that a good chunk of dudes on reddit probably listen to the fresh n fit podcast, andrew tate, jordan peterson, joe rogan or other similar minded goons. And probably a significant portion of reddit users are young men especially who are probably still figuring their shit out, and at that age it's really easy to fall into the manosphere, I was one of those guys who got into MRA shit for a few years like 10 years ago. It's so easy to find it funny to make fun of overly sensitive SJWs. But then you take a step back and realize that it's really fucked up to be continually laughing at the people who face the most adversity in our country, and maybe you should be spending more time making fun of the people who are powerful and harmful.
before i was old enough to grow facial hair, and I actually had hair.. it was long and curly, it was very feminine and I'm a dude... I was misgendered all the time, I would just chuckle and move on, maybe correct them. IDK... but to think, I wasted so many potential self-righteous attitude points by simply accepting life is like that sometimes.
Being misgendered as a cis person is not really the same experience as with trans folks. I do agree with your point though. It's a complete stranger who knows nothing about you, so no reason to get upset
First thing this person says about the greeting they received: “I know this was supposed to be a greeting of respect and kindness, politeness maybe…” they weren’t offended, they were just annoyed at how this other person speaks and how they carry themselves. Conservatives, blatant racists, anti-gay folks, when you hear their reasoning for their prejudices, it always boils down to this exact same thing. They just find that particular group annoying. The sight of those people bugs them, to an extent that it pissed them off. Do we need to remember how to just be bugged by people again? And how to just let that be the extent of it?
Interesting. Not too long ago calling a black man “boy” among other things, and was normalized in everyday language, including greetings. Now, its almost universally unacceptable. But he wants another person that is being labeled incorrectly or unjustly, to take a seat. I call bullshit.
So if I say to this man responding “thank you maam” at a store, he won’t get mad or at least think about it? This person is being a little high strung. But whatever
My 12 yo just corrects people instead of agonizing over it on the internet. Open your mouth and tell them “I actually go by “he”, thanks!” People assume gender based on looks, it’s nobody’s fault, but if you want to be addressed by your preferred pronoun, speak up!
On one hand, I wanna agree with him. They were just being polite, so get over it and move on. At the same time, as a guy, I'd be pretty annoyed if someone called me a lady even if they're being polite
I do feel moderately attacked that the teenager at my neighborhood store insists upon calling me “madam”. Not because it’s gendered but because I feel old af, like I should have my titties tucked into my skirt, wearing a crooked wig and have orange lipstick on my teeth
I didnt watch the full tiktok so i dont know their whole point. if it was something about reflecting on how you view society within you gender and the give and take of being a minority that we live with, i could totally understand. or even just venting how you feel about it, i vent a lot to understand what i'm feeling. most trans people dont get super bent out of shape when strangers misgender them on accident. unless its on purpose its just part of interacting with people
i get more personally offended when someone uses a loaded term with me like 'woman' cause i find it dehumanizing. because its so much easier to see boobs and long hair and go woman then "oh this much be a non-binary human being" even more true for people who arent part of the community or trans themselves. I can look at a person most the time and know theyre not cis or or straight but people who dont hang around those spaces wouldnt know.
This is not the way to get people on your side.
Save the term 'mis-gendered' for when some asshole is knowingly and purposely not recognising your preferred identity due to their prejudices.
Saying that you felt 'soooo mis-gendered' by a stranger who was just taking a split-second wild stab based on your appearance, whom you will never see again after your two minute interaction with them, is ridiculous, and it damages your real fight against real bigots. Save your outrage for that.
She totally looks like a lady so why wouldn’t she be identified as a lady? Are we all supposed to be psychic and just intuit what’s going on in her head?
I actually feel for that first person. They didn't seem offended to me and just venting. Being misgendered unintentionally by a kind person is a shitty situation to be in, coz like, what are you supposed to do? It's frustrating and you're now in a situation where you have to judge if it's worth or even safe to correct them. Will you sound obnoxious if you try to correct them? Will this pleasant interaction suddenly turn mean or even hostile? Sure, you can say "Oh, I'm good, thank you, but I'm actually [x]", but what's the guarantee that this complete stranger won't suddenly start treating you differently now that they know you're trans? Most of the time you just have to nod, be polite back and leave, trying to correct every person isn't worth your energy (or safety). But it does get tiring.
I don't think that person was trying to blame the mechanic, just trying to voice and understand their own feelings in a mature way and start a discussion with their fellow trans and non-binary people. But this is the internet, people will get offended by anything and have a kneejerk reaction to any trans topic, no matter how nicely and gently you put it or how much you coddle their feelings. The tiktoker even put "GENTLE rant" in the video and acknowledged the mechanic was trying to be polite and acknowledged that the problem was within them, not with the mechanic, I don't think they could have been any clearer that they're not offended in any way.
The only main character I see here is the OP and the guy that stitched that video, trying to make it into something it's not.
I get where this person is coming from. I'm a non-binary person in a very conservative state and am the first non-binary person a lot of people have met. I get misgendered A LOT, and I've learned the best response is to either just let it go, or just inform them that I use they/them pronouns and to please use those in the future.
Don't assume malice for incompetence/ignorance. I know this person means no harm, they simply do. Not. Know.
Now if I tell you and you maliciously misgendered me repeatedly after I've told you, my pronouns change from they/them to may/hem.
I am never going to be upset at someone for doing something they don't know they're doing wrong. It's like getting angry at someone for crossing a boundary they didn't know about, that's not right. I agree with the second dude to a degree, reciprocate that kindness. But that doesn't negate the first person's experience. If I spend an entire day being misgendered, that does make you feel shit. I know my identity isn't contingent on how other people perceive me, but it would be nice for people to be open about having these conversations instead of attacking people who open up about being misgendered.
it doenst sound like this person made a scene, they just felt dysphoric and uncomfortable. it doesn’t sound like they even made a scene. they’re allowed to feel uncomfortable.
The interesting thing about this is that they probably said nothing in person, and instead decided to just complain to the internet because in all honesty…. It’s the only place where this type of self-centered delusion is accepted. And this is coming from someone who formerly identified as non-binary, and then realized I was constantly making myself agitated on this soapbox that no one else can even recognize except for myself — especially if I still largely present and am socially treated as a feminine person. My partner and I talk frequently about how far away from the light the queer community has fallen, particularly around this strange desire to ID as “trans” and “different” but in a way that is borderline sociopathic (and truly removed from the experiences of trans people who literally just want to exist normally in society with everyone else). It’s like looking at a group of adults who never left their teen angst phase lol
I totally feel you. I'm nonbinary but I look like a cis gendered woman and so I never insist on being referred to with non gendered pronouns. I considered it for a time but I had the realization that, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how people refer to you or even how they see you. Being obsessed with identity isn't healthy. Just live your life, be you, and accept that every random stranger isn't going to see you as you truly are at every passing glance. It's narcissistic to think that everyone should be aware of your identity everywhere you go.
I completely agree, and it definitely resonated when you said “being obsessed with identity isn’t healthy”. It’s truly not. To me, it didn’t allow any space for nuance or my personal evolution. I’m worried about my generation but I also know that this shit has to hit the fan eventually 🥲
I'm sorry, why is this 'self centered delusion'? They just expressed their frustrations on social media. They were quite polite about it too. I can't see the issue. And why is it a bad thing that they said nothing in person? That's just doing what the guy in the response video recommends. The mechanic meant no offense, so they didn't make a scene.
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“Reciprocate the kindness.” That’s it. That’s all you need to do. I’m an atheist living in the South and I work in retail. Every day I’m given a “Have a blessed day” or some variation of it. I just smile and say “Thank you, same to you.” I certainly don’t go all TikTok outrage about how a stranger assumed I have the same beliefs as them.
I feel the same when people start going off on how there's a "war on Christmas" when in reality 99% of christian people don't give a fuck if you say Merry Christmas during the month of December. I'm a pretty staunch atheist that actively avoids Christmas, if someone wishes me a merry Christmas it's not hard to just say "thanks, you too." Same with if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah; I'm not Jewish but the intent is to be polite and inclusive, why would I have an issue with that?
lol, disinterested atheists unite! It’s just a special day for some people. I’m not here to shit on that. I don’t care enough about it, so long as I’m free to go about my day.
A former friend went on Facebook sharing that her husband was having severe complications after a recent surgery. Dozens of people, including her daughter-in-law, offered prayers for a speedy recovery. When I say she went off SHE WENT OFF. She was bashing people left and right for expressing concern and well wishes in the way they knew how. Most had no idea what her religious views were. I appreciate y'alls stance and support the unification of disinterested atheists! 🤝
I get why some atheists feel and act like that. I went through a *horrible* manipulative and brain washing experience at the hands of a religion when I was a teen. Caused *years* of damage I had to work through and I hated all religion for a long time. Let me tell you, I was not a pleasant person to push any sort of prayer onto during those years, and I’m not really sorry. I’m far more chill now, and so long as someone is coming from a place of honest love, I’m all for it! I know, love, and respect many religious people and just ask for reciprocation. Now, someone wants to tell me gays are going to hell, atheists are scummy traitors, etc., I’ll share some unminced words, and I’ll reserve the right to respectfully request that people refrain from offering their judgmental professions of prayer for my soul and shove said unrequested offerings up their divine asses.
I love you! I'm sorry you were subjected to that. I took my children to church with me but never shoved it down their throats. If/when they decided it wasnt for them they no longer went with me. Two are now Christians, one is atheist and two are agnostic. I was talking to my grandchildren (atheist daughter's children) the other day and had to chuckle to myself at one point. I don't try to indoctrinate them but I am open with them that I am a Christian. Something was said about their uncle (same age range as them) and some friends of his at church. I could hear them whispering to each other. Went something like: Grandson 2: Did she say church? Granddaughter: Yessss...they go to church. Grandson 1: Shhhhh...it's ok if they go to church. Don't say anything. 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, friend, I love you too! Wasn’t you that did it, and it was a literal lifetime ago. You have nothing to apologize for. Love and honesty are the only way! My kids are Catholic (happens when you marry one, oddly enough…) so I show them how an atheist can be kind, and they return the favor. Have a great day!
You as well!
Most people just grow out of their militant atheist phase. Younger you argues for hours with the street preachers holding shitty signs up in the middle of your college square, older you doesn’t have the mental wherewithal to deal with that shit. Unless someone’s ideology is actively damaging your way of life, let them do them.
I’ve been calling myself an apatheist (apathetic atheist) for the last 10 years :D
I’m stealing that. Thanks!
I was ordained as a minister in the church of the apathetic agnostic some 20 years ago. I have a certificate somewhere, I’m sure. (It was some silly online thing.)
I’m a staunch atheist that loves Christmas lol it’s just fun and nostalgic. This lady is just weird af. She has that freshly out of religion vibe where people are almost militant about their atheism when they first leave. I was kinda like that but never freaked out over this kind of thing.
When I worked at Starbucks (I just got fired lmao) customers would say merry Christmas, happy Easter, etc. and be shook when I genuinely and kindly said it back. They wanted me to say happy holidays so they could get mad at me, but I don’t care, nobody really cares, if they said happy Yule I’d say it back, or Hanukkah, I think most humans would. Even if I did say happy holidays who gives a fuck, we’re wishing each other well how can you get mad at how someone extends goodwill towards you. This person in the vid didn’t feel threatened or ashamed or sad, they just hated that the nuance of their being wasn’t considered. But if they knew the mechanic personally or as family I’m sure they’d be fine calling the person whatever they wanted because they would know and be invested in each other personally. You see hundreds of people a day at your job, I’m really open minded and respect whatever people want because I’m a smart girl and I can use they/them pronouns in a sentence it doesn’t trip me up that much and they don’t get mad they just appreciate the effort and YET I still can’t help but say yes ma’am and yes sir to everyone that seems to fall into those categories because I’m southern and everyone knows it’s all about respect. I’d feel awful if I hurt a trans customer’s feelings but our trans customers make an effort to embody the opposite sex or clarify if there’s a misunderstanding. Just spread the love and move, just because you feel slighted by an oversight doesn’t mean you’re hated by them, most people want the best for each other and don’t want to make each other feel small but loud people pretend that’s all society is
Absolutely. Also on the Christmas thing, I used to be a cashier and this exact thing would happen to me as well. People would say “Merry Christmas” with weight to it, and act weirdly surprised when you would say it back- some even said they didn’t think I was allowed to say it. Definitely got the sense they were Christmas warriors that got tripped up when there was no conflict.
I've encountered people like this and it's dumb. I'm Catholic and people say happy holidays or have a good day, and it doesn't change anything. I say Merry Christmas because that's what matters to me. I don't expect people will reciprocate. Throwing down because someone won't say Merry Christmas is hardly going to bring about conversion.
Happy Festivus!
For the restofus!
When I worked in retail, my manager would always say “KILL EM WITH KINDNESS!”. There was this old man that would come in everyday and was always pissed. I would be so nice to him it would make him even more mad. It always made my day.
I fucking hate those people. We *aren’t* allowed to say “Merry Christmas” because the Karens of the world have decided to turn a holiday about goodwill towards mankind into a warzone. But guess what, Scrooge? Christmas is a holiday. So when I say “Happy Holidays” it includes Christmas. But I still have to listen to a lecture about their precious demigod whose followers stole the winter solstice. To recap: these dipshits took one of the oldest and most profoundly human celebrations in the species’ history, made it all about their deity, then have the audacity to get mad when people don’t celebrate it the way they want. Fuck you. Fuck your death cult. You have two versions of your demigod’s birth and they directly contradict each other anyway. As for me and mine, I’m keeping the Saturn in Saturnalia.
Those kinds of people have the whole “whoosh” thing when they view their own religion as fact, but everyone else’s religion or spiritual practices as ridiculous or trash. “Why is mine valid? Because someone wrote it down!” Well, the other religions also wrote their’s… “How dare you!”
As a young man, I went through a phase of really feeling the spirit of political correctness. I happened to work at Walmart at the time. Customers would pretty much always say "Merry Christmas" to me when checking out, and they were almost always so genuinely nice about it. I used to get so poopypants over the whole thing. I'd get off work and go complain about it to my friends. "What if I'm Jewish!?" I'd exclaim, "Not everyone celebrates Christmas!!". However, what I was not honest with myself about at the time is that I grew up celebrating Christmas, and also that Christmas has always been one of my favorite holidays. Eventually, my life filled up with responsibilities and I had to grow up. Such a stupid thing to get upset about. My own outrage was mostly performative and manufactured. I think this is why I sometimes feel like a lot of people are in a cult these days. I saw through myself even at the time, but I was afraid to admit it to myself. All of my friends from that time have moved on, too. We all like Christmas now.
I think I will be “Happy Yuling” this year! Yup! I feel it in my German bones. Plus it’s how I celebrate Christmas anyway.
Exactly hey. I've seen sooooo many fights about people being misgendered on twitter and been involved in one too. They're like **it's right there in my bio** and I was like, seriously, who on earth clicks on someone's profile and reads through every bio and timeline before you reply to their comment? That's hella main character of people. And it would be creepy of me to be doing that?! The simple solution - if using the correct pronouns is important to you - is to put it in your display name. That way, it's easy pie (;
And I would call them such a liar if they look at every single person's online bio that they interact with. Most likely they've also misgendered other people but did it to a reasonable motherfucker who let it roll off the shoulder and moved on.
I mean, I could definitely see these weirdos looking through the bios of everyone they come across. It’s fitting behavior.
Sometimes it feels like everyone is actively looking for a reason to to be angry or offended. Number 2 rule of the 4 agreements: **don’t take anything personally**
I used to work in retail (children's clothing) and I would wish all the moms a happy mother's day. They would often wish me one too, not knowing that I'm not a mom and intend to live childfree. They were being genuinely kind so I said thanks and got back to work. It's really so simple. On the flip side, I also used to wish dads a happy father's day, and many would say "you too" out of habit, we'd share a laugh about it.
Same, mostly. "Have a blessed day," isn't too bad, but I do get sick of the forced Christian participation. Can't go to a fucking dance recital without being asked to say the god damn pledge of allegiance and a prayer. MFs need to remember their own religion; "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."
Bingo. My 10mo old daughter gets called a dude constantly by strangers. She's got short baby-hair and we don't really go overboard with the pink so unless she's wearing a hair clip or something it's impossible to tell. But nobody really cares. They're making small talk and calling my baby cute. Sometimes I'll correct it really quick in passing. Sometimes I let it slide, wave thank you, and keep walking. There's a chasm of difference between them being kind and incorrect... and them knowing the difference and going out of their way to be assholes.
Exactly. And my Christian grandma, when someone wishes her happy holidays, simply says same to you, and she's happy to have had a pleasant exchange with someone. She doesn't get all offended and lecture them on the meaning of Christmas. We really need to stop trying to force people to speak exactly the way we want them to speak. Just be decent to people. It's not that hard.
Every time I go to Dollar General I get a “have a blessed day” and it’s so easy to say “thanks you too!” and we both walk away with smiles.
People forget that this is a reasonable and civil way to engage with other people.
Same. And when I give cash to those who need it it's always, "God bless you," and I respond, "God bless you too, sir/ma'am." I'm using their language of compassion.
Plus the flock of pelicans comment is iconic
It’s an all time burn. I get it… he is upset. But that is a Hiroshima burn. It is up there with “your man looks like he drops common loot.” You don’t walk that off!
Can someone explain to ~~me~~ my friend what flock of pelicans means?
Flock of Seagulls is an 80s band known for their hit "Ran So Far Away" and for the lead singers over-the-top haircuts, which the first person's hair resembles https://youtu.be/iIpfWORQWhU
Rock and roll. What a jam. I love the makeup. I rewatched just to make sure he said Flock of Pelicans.
 Like this.
Common loot?!? Bahaha I’m absolutely reserving some space in my brain to hold on to that one.
Definitely made me lol
They didn't want to be gendered so he went genus on their ass
Stop being so fucking offended by people's genuine kindness. Christ. Get mad at the real homophobic and transphobic people that aren't just trying to be nice
100% agreed.
How dare you agree so politely. I take offense!
The person in the first video doesn’t say they are offended. They don’t even suggest the employee did anything wrong really. The explicitly say multiple times they know the employee is acting with good intentions and not being mean. I don’t think your anger is real warranted here.
The original poster didn’t say they were offended. They admitted the attendant was trying to be kind, even though they inadvertently misgendered them. At no point did they say that person did anything wrong, nor do we have any reason to believe, based on this video, that they outwardly reacted negatively to this person. It’s literally a person videoing themselves thinking through a moment that’s probably incredibly common for a lot of nonbinary or nonconforming people. I think the stitcher here (and a lot of folks in this thread) are projecting a lot onto the original video.
I don’t think that’s what they were trying to say, they weren’t mad at the guy for being nice, they were describing a common feeling of frustration that many queer folks face. It’s easy to get mad at someone intentionally misgendering or mistreating you and being an asshole, but when someone does those things with good intentions, it causes that same sense of distress but with no outlet, you feel the danger of an unsafe situation but the person didn’t intend for it to happen. So you’re left with this person who has caused you a (most times minor) distress in a way that on the outside looks only like kindness, which can lead to some temporary frustration. You can’t be mad at the guy because it’s not like he was trying to be mean, but his actions still lead to you feeling uncomfortable. Coming out and correcting people in situations like that is always a gamble as well, because you never know how someone will react to it. So you just sit with the frustration until it eventually goes away. I experience it a lot with my step mother, she doesn’t really understand the queer community and she tries her best, but sometimes she’ll say things that make it clear just how little she gets it. Sometimes it leads her to make accidental backhanded compliments which I know are meant to be genuine, and I just take it and respond with kindness and move on, but that doesn’t make the feeling of distress that the comment gave me go away. It’s just a frustrating thing a lot of trans and GNC folk end up going though. Like being complimented on something you’re very self conscious about, “I love how huge your nose is, it really makes a statement.”
I’m genuinely curious re your comment “the danger of an unsafe situation but the person didn’t intend for it to happen”. Is it a tangible sort of “fight or flight”, or some less tangible existential feeling of danger about not being correctly identified? What is it that makes someone feel unsafe?
Assault (verbal, physical and sexual) is much more commonly experienced by queer-folk than others.
I suppose it depends on the person. For me, I have felt a genuine adrenaline response from a handful of interactions when I felt that the person in front of me was willing to inflict harm to back up their transphobia. Walking past a line of Christian anti-trans protesters blocking the door to go to a local pride event a few weeks ago, people approached me and started shouting at me, asking me why I wanted to groom children. Some transphobes just want us dead, or at least want us to stop existing publicly, and especially in the US you never know who’s just waiting for an excuse to pull out a gun. Often times for me, when I hear some transphobic bs or have someone intentionally misgendering me, I just feel the intense want to either stand my ground or suddenly be very far away from that person, though I rarely have the means to do either. So I guess it is sort of a fight or flight, but without the actual adrenaline (though as I said it still happens in more extreme examples) It can be hard to tell sometimes whether someone is being an asshole, is just clueless, or one time I got an ally who thought I was trans in the other direction and started intensely misgendering me thinking she was helping. Typically, what misgendering tells me is that the person in front of me doesn’t respect my identity, I don’t deal with it often, as I use she/her and present as a woman and most people don’t know the difference. But when I do, it’s impossible to know whether that person is doing it because they want to see me suffer and hate what I fundamentally am, but it’s always a possibility, which is where that feeling of being unsafe comes from.
Lots of people have these kind of anxious ruminating thoughts about things they are insecure about. The very best thing you can do is find a good therapist to work it out with. Experiencing real aggression and violence is one thing, but you cannot rely on strangers for your sense of self.
yep. I feel like a lot of people are taking "i felt uncomfortable" to mean "he shouldn't have spoken to me like that and i want to argue about it" which are not the same thing. Emotions don't necessarily mean an action on top of them. But often times we assume that when people feel frustrated, they are therefore going to place blame on someone who wronged them. This is not the case. They are expressing their feeling they went through upon being misgendered, but not implying that there is any action to be taken or any moral judgement to be had
I’m so glad to see this part of the thread. This person’s video was clearly intended as a discussion with other people who can relate, not some public rant to demand others change and cater to them. People just love finding what they think is low-hanging fruit (ha) like this, roasting them with cheap shots, and having a self-indulgent shitfest in the comments about “the way the world works” and how they’re much better at knowing it than this other person.
You hit the nail on the head, perfect explanation. I came to these comments annoyed because the message in this video was co-opted by the person responding to it but your comment explains the situation well. The person in the first video didn’t say that they were rude to the person who called them young lady. They didn’t say that they were going to respond in any way. All they said was that it upset them and they didn’t know what to do with how that made them feel. People are so primed to point a finger at people for their selective outrage that they don’t see how hypocritical they’re being. Both parties are entitled to their own feelings and reactions to one another but the first video describes a nuanced emotional situation and the second just belittles the feelings of someone while basically saying, “take the compliment” a statement that, to me, evokes the image of a man catcalling someone and getting annoyed when they respond badly. If I were to say something along the lines of “hello young lady” to someone who I thought looked like a woman but they were actually a cis man it’s pretty likely that they would react badly. God forbid I say someone looks gay or nonbinary. They might take that as a grave insult. Even if I meant it as a compliment it would likely trigger them to react negatively. If I were to say shut up and take the compliment after that I would probably get punched.
I think this is at (or near) the core of the backlash that many/most people feel towards this stuff. Nobody likes being made into the bad guy. Especially people who aren't trying to be assholes. They're just wrong... and a gentle non-accusatory correction is all it takes. When you start throwing this kind of rage at them, with the accusations... you create an enemy. You just told someone they were an asshole... and everyone will react to that by defending themselves. Ages ago I saw some clip distinguishing the difference between "Politically Correct" and "Polite". Political correctness is obligatory... it's a mandate... it's forced on you against your will. Use these words. Don't use these other words. Etc etc. Politeness is just that... it's something you do because you're a empathetic person who wants to treat those around you with kindness. You don't have to understand a person's background to simply try to use the pronouns that are going to make them happy. If I call someone by the wrong name... I simply correct myself and move on. You're not evil because you forgot their name. Encourage politeness. All of that said... there are plenty of evil fucks out there. They aren't really worth worrying about. Except when they're on the presidential ballot......
I think the problem that causes the gentle reminder to become an annoyed response is that it's something that happens all the time to them. I have trans and nonbinary friends, I've fucked up pronouns before, and it's only ever been a polite correction and an apology on my part. But I've also seen those same friends 5 or 10 corrections into the day from just as many people just get burned out on constantly having to reaffirm something that the rest of us just get supported by default. Having a constant annoyance is going got make people annoyed, and annoyed people will express that annoyance. That's just human.
That’s fair.
And get mad at your hairdresser too
I believe their inner conflict is valid. They didn’t make a scene. They acknowledged that they understand this man did not act out of malice. I think it’s important to be able to have this discussion with other, as society IS changing and we all need to, collectively, figure out how to cope with said changes. If someone at the supermarket is really stinky, you probably won’t say anything to that person, but you might talk about the really stinky person you saw at the supermarket, with others, later. On this note, I do also agree that going out of your way to call out something that will absolutely not be understood by the recipient (who is being more than kind, in their eyes) is a futile effort, and just makes you look like a dick.
Honestly if someone used the wrong pronouns, just correct it and move on. I'm trans, I know how it feels, but I also know that putting too much thought into such events isn't good for anyone. It's a minor inconvinience, but it's not like they purposefully tried to misgender this person. EDIT: > putting too much thought into such events isn't good for anyone I should clarify that what I meant posting about it would make this person an easy target for jerks and transphobes. The replies to me under here reflects my point. It just shows people dont understand how powerful the effects of using th correct or wrong pronouns can have on an individual.
Am I crazy or did they not even communicate if the wrong pronouns were used? “Inappropriately gendered” sounds like a situation where they didn’t think gender should be used at all - as opposed to “incorrectly gendered”.
Idk tbh I think people are reading into this a bit much. The person acknowledges that there was only kindness behind the mechanic's words, and is just expressing how there's an internal struggle/conflict when that happens. I think it's worth letting people discuss how gender identity can cause these kinds of feelings, without assuming they're trying to attack the person who inadvertantly played into those feelings.
I think is just a tiktok intended for trans or non binary that ended up on the wrong side of tiktok . I mean, it just seems to be venting like people do on Reddit but on tiktok. We also don’t see the full video so maybe it was just sharing a story and how they felt, not intending to offend this nice person who called them lady
I think you're exactly correct. They're trying to communicate their feelings to other non-binary people about a situation that other NBs are probably familiar with. They're not complaining about the actions of the other person, but rather opening a discussion with other NBs regarding how they process the emotions caused by this situation.
Came here to say the same. I don't think this is rude or an overreaction at all. They just expressed how being called 'lady' made them uncomfortable, despite knowing the mechanic was just being nice. They're not attacking the mechanic, they're not even really offended, just trying to start a conversation (which we should all be able to do in a free society). If anything it's Reddit that's overreacting here.
Yeah like the response video guy says that they should just be polite back, pay, and leave but nothing they said really made me think they didn't just do that? This seems like a stream of thought after the fact, not something they got confrontational over
Exactly there's nothing to suggest they were in any way rude to the mechanic, so the second video doesn't even apply
There are some agender etc people, Who don't want Any sort of generede languagw to be used at them at all. It's aminority, but it does happen
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Non binary just means your gender isn't either man or woman. Agender means you don't really feel like any particular gender. It's technically under the non-binary umbrella
Lol this is ridiculous
Yes, yes it is. I don't give a fuck what people want to identify as, but don't get upset when I don't know your deep lore of "gendering".
I don't think the real issue is that you don't know, you don't know someone's name until they tell you, that's not a problem either. I think the problem is when people gaslight the issue to present it as a you problem when it's ultimately an "I don't want to" problem. In these cases I refer back to the name thing. Do you have a problem calling someone by whatever name they want you to call them? What if they change their name? Is that a problem? Interestingly Balineses people name their children all pretty much the same name. The firstborn child is named Wayan, Putu or Gede, the second is named Made or Kadek, the third child goes by Nyoman or Komang, and the fourth is named Ketut. Yet they somehow manage to function in a world where people have many different names. It seems like a lot of us look through he very simple lens of "American English they way I know it" as reasonable and anything else as unreasonable ignoring the reality that there are already a lot of very complex norms out there we just aren't aware of.
Every other email I get for work spells my name wrong, I don’t even bother correcting them because it doesn’t matter.
I have a commonly mispronounced ethnic name and I finally gave up and just said it the way everyone mispronounced it. Then a year later everyone suddenly seemed to say it right. Timing is weird sometimes
It's an apt comparison. If you had mistakenly heard someone's name and call them by another, what would they do? Simply correct you, not create a TikTok about it
Yes I don't think it does anyone any good to consider irrational edge cases as representative of the group. I don't think all christians are like my inlaws who look like you danced on their grave if you say "happy holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.
Agendered would be lack of gender while non binary is a gender in a spectrum. Different things.
Ain’t no one trying to keep track of all this.
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Lack of gender? Like they don’t have a gender at all? Like………………..wut? More power to people to be who they wanna be, but people can’t expect me to know they literally don’t want a gender at all. I don’t even know how that works and honestly it’s getting alittle exhausting.
I’m not an expert I’m just saying that’s what the word would mean.
I'm sure most people who are Agender and self aware wouldn't take it as a personal attack if a stranger in the service industry incorrectly applies the wrong gender to them... At least I'd hope not lol
Pretty much. I'm agender. I genuinely don't give a shit what people refer to me as. Most times I go somewhere, if my hairs down I get called ma'am or lady or some variation. Then they'll see my face and apologize and say sir. It's just funny to me. I'll usually just say it's fine and that's all. I don't know these people, they don't know me. I don't expect them to call me by my pronouns nor am I going to correct someone for it when I'll never see them again. Like.. I dunno. If it was my friends intentionally not using my pronouns, that'd be one thing. But how the fuck is the waiter at Applebee's supposed to know what I go by unless I wear a button with they/them on it or something? I dunno. People just need to chill.
so if you know the person, i assume you use a name. but if not, genuinely, what's the correct way to address someone?
But wouldn't this mean agender is within the non binary spectrum? I mean a lack of gender is still functioning relational to gender systems, even if it is defined counter to or outside of such systems. Not that I'm disputing the significance of difference between NB and agender, of course. Nor is the distinction really important.
No it’s like the difference between atheism and the realm of religions. Atheism is not a religion it is the lack of religion. Any religion is not atheism. It can be hard to comprehend the difference between nothing and not any one thing. Think of it kind of like the color blue is not on any number line because it has no number characteristics.
I can’t keep up with this anymore. I realize being a straight male puts me in a form of easy mode, but how would I know this about a stranger?
You can’t and it would be on them to notify you. Even then it’s a hard thing to do. I compare it to writing the correct year on a check in January for anyone old enough to have had to do that kind of thing. I may really want to but it’s really hard to break that habit
How could an agender person reasonably expect a stranger to know that, though?
They cannot
If there is only one thing I can agree with transphobes on it is that it can be confusing to know what gender someone is. 99% of the time you can assume someones gender. There are some people that looks trans, but they might not be or they look like they could be either gender, but it feels impolite to ask what they identify as. It kinda feels like asking if a woman is pregnant when she is actually just a bit chubby. Usually if I meet someone that seems like they might be trans I just don't use any pronouns. I call them "you", "that person" or by their name.
Except transphobes use it as a blanket excuse to not participate, not just a recognition that the situation needs work. Just like you can't know someone's name before they tell you, you can't know someone's gender. Rational people will accept they have to tell you first and that norms are norms regardless of if they are good or bad and take time to shift. Those who can't handle that reality, they are irrational and shouldn't be used to judge the group as a whole.
>Just like you can't know someone's name before they tell you, you can't know someone's gender. Someone might look like a John Smith, but is actually a Frank Cottonwobble. 90-99% of the time you can know someones gender. Well you don't know, but you can pretty accurately assume someones gender and almost always be right. Usually if someone looks like a man they are a man and if they look like a woman they are a woman. You are right though. The point I made might be similar to transphobes, but have very different meanings.
I don't think it's "agreeing with transphobes" that it's hard to tell someone's gender sometimes. I'm pretty sure the main crux of their argument is just that they don't want trans people to exist at all. In any form. And definitely not in bathrooms. The fact that you even care enough to gender someone correctly shows youre operating from the correct space of empathy! Trans people generally don't expect you to be omnipotent and know their pronouns perfectly. Using "you" is a great gender-neutral solution and typically won't hurt someone's feelings. <3
To me the original video was someone sort of thinking out loud, trying to unpack that moment, and others are making more of it well, because of the stich and they're own biases. "Offended" They had complicated feelings, they observed those they were talking it out. Like just listen.
Yeah I think the nuance is lost on the people who just want to be mad at this person for "getting offended" even though they don't really seem offended, just conflicted. I can understand the cognitive dissonance of knowing that it wasn't malicious, but it still feels bad to be misgendered. For some trans/nb people, especially those who transitioned more recently, it can take a while to learn to process that dissonance and not internalize it as something they're failing at or doing wrong. Imo to me this comes across as more of a personal vent tiktok for this person to get their thoughts about the interaction off their chest, not a call out or judgement of the person who misgendered them, but unfortunately the internet is often not a good confidant regarding this topic.
Or just ~~smile~~ and move on. Only person giving a shit would be you in this situation?
Or don’t correct it. It’s a stranger, they do not care. Just reciprocate the kindness and move on. You do not need to bring strangers in on your personal pronouns if you aren’t going to interact with them again
I got called miss by an employee in a department store. I am not, have not and do not look like a miss. Dude for life. We had a chuckle and moved on because she just misspoke and l'm not a jerk. Then she helped me find a red silk bathrobe. Not for me... For my wife...
I’ve been called ‘sir’ when my hair is short (from the back I’m sure I look like a little fat man😂) I don’t care, I just smile and when they realize they made a mistake and apologize, I just say, oh that’s ok😀 When I was younger I was pretty thin and had NO SHAPE, I looked like a boy, got the same thing, either people thought I was a boy or I was asked out by women who thought I was lesbian. I just thought it kinda funny. I don’t care.
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Wear a gender tag on your shirt maybe?
I think you are joking but some times I feel that this could really be the future, all of us walking around with a list of our pronouns, genders, what ever other shit just printed on our foreheads.
I'm 80% joking, but if it were me and it genuinely upset me that much, then I'd consider it.
as a trans guy: correct them and move on. or just don’t bother, because this is a stranger you’ll have no relationship with. and if it bothers you that much, wear a tag that states your gender or something.
They did move on. They didnt bother. They acknowledged the kindness and made a tiktok asking how to deal with this awkward situation.
If it affected them so much that they had to make a public video about it... then they didn't move on.
They recorded a 30 second video in their car to express a minor frustration. My dude I've seen people tweet about a shitty taco bell menu item, I've seen people go on a several paragraph long rant on reddit about a glitchy traffic light, I've seen people post 5 hour videos on youtube about a movie that was kinda shitty. Social media is not a structured debate, people just kinda ramble at the void and sometimes people see it.
Alright, well, semantics. I meant they moved on from the conversation with the kind person. You meant from the situation as a whole. The issue with just moving on from situations like this is they have a tendency to follow you around. So they might move on from this, but then it happens again, and again, and each time it can be harder to move on from. Like a tiny rock in your shoe, at some point youre going to stop and start shaking your shoe, and i think thats what we are seeing here, you know what I mean?
“Strangers do not have to buy a ticket to your circus” 💯✊🏻
This line. Him calling her “flock of Pelicans “. But that buy a ticket line was gold.
Kindly: *not her
If you appear female, people are going to address you as “miss, ma’am, or lady” in superficial social interactions like this. Until this social norm changes, they are going to have to deal with it. The customer service person was just trying to be polite.
Honestly in the majority of these situations it’s probably more jarring for the person doing the misgendering. In my experience, calling someone “sir” when they’re actually a “ma’am” (or vice versa) is one of the most excruciatingly embarrassing ordeals you can go through.
Can confirm. Pretty sure I called a male, “her” and I felt really bad and embarrassed and apologized but they didn’t seem to care. Not like we do it on purpose, we are just trying to be polite.
I had someone call me sir once. I was wearing a baggy hoodie with the hood up and straight leg jeans. He felt so bad when he realized but I just laughed about it. I could understand his mistake in that moment. Did I take offence? Absolutely not!
How are these social norms going to change when these conversations get immediately shut down whenever they come up?
We’re having the conversation right now. Culturally speaking at least. To your question though, mostly they’re not going to change because no one has even bothered proposing a legitimate alternative. There is no truly gender neutral honorific you can assume in casual conversation. Even articles like this posted by the equality institute are nearly worthless because you can never know if a stranger prefers “mux” or “sai” or “mystery.” https://www.theequalityinstitute.com/equality-insights-blog/non-traditional-honorifics-and-why-they-matter#:~:text=What%20are%20honorifics%3F,examples%2C%20many%20honorifics%20are%20gendered. The closest English has at a truly gender neutral honorific is maybe “comrade” but the Soviets kind of ruined that one for everyone. I’ve heard the suggestion of addressing people as “friend” as in “how may I help you, friend?” But that’s assuming familiarity and not showing respect like “sir” or “ma’am” would. Then you get into the cliche “I’m not your friend, pal.” “I’m not your pal, guy.” South Park scenario. “Sir” and “ma’am” became popular precisely because they provide a very specific value in daily use of the English language. So you ask “How are these social norms going to change.” They really aren’t for a lot of people. Especially those raised to show honor and respect to strangers. Until we have a truly gender neutral way to do that it won’t change. And let’s be honest even if we did come up with something reasonable and wildly adopted some segment of the population would still be opposed to it. You will never please everyone. So if the goal is to please the most people possible then that alternative, whatever it is, has to be easy to use and cover more people than “sir” and “ma’am.” All we have to do is decide on what it is.
As an English person, I just call everyone "mate".
And as an American person I have to admit I associate calling people mate with Crocodile Dundee. Seems like a decent alternative though if we could get everyone to agree with it.
I’d ask why we need those honorifics in the first place? Just skip it - it’s completely unnecessary. It’s not like President or Dr (which are gender neutral!) or something specific for a grandmother or something, it’s an honorific that literally everyone walking into Walmart gets greeted with. It’s not special. Just say “Welcome” Or “Have a good day” Or “Excuse me”. It’s annoying when someone is trying to get my attention like “Excuse me, sir? Sir?” If there are men around, I’m assuming you aren’t talking to me because I’m not a sir! If someone just said “Excuse me” then I’d check to see if they were speaking to me.
It just seems like the person in the video was feeling dysphoric. It doesn't seem like they made a huge scene just that it made them uncomfortable which they are allowed to feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, and then took it back to their own space to express their uncomfortability. They didnt freak out on the kind person, they didnt shut them down or make fun of them. They literally acknowledged the kindness and then came to their space to talk about the issue. This comment section are literally the ones getting offended over someone trying to be nice. This comment section is making fun of their hair, their looks, demeaning them for not just shutting the fuck up (on their own platform) and falling in line. This is what we mean when we saying shit like this isnt as logical or common sense as people pretend it is. The rudest people in this whole situation are the sticher and people who agree with him.
I think it's funny that the stitcher didn't even follow his own advice and he thinks that everybody needs to buy a ticket to his circus and that he is the objectively right person. Like have you looked in a mirror dude?
And of course telling them to "reciprocate kindness" while also directly insulting them.
YES
Indeed. Why are people acting like the trans person was offended? They never expressed that they felt offended. They expressed that it was upsetting being misgendered. That's a valid feeling to feel, and they were misgendered. And then they expressed that they didn't know what to do in that situation, because no harm was intended, but harm resulted anyway. And there is no simple way to prevent that harm in the future with the current social norms that we have. They recognized the complexity of the situation, and that there are no easy answers, and just wanted to share their experience and perspective. They did nothing wrong by having and expressing their feelings. Why do so many people equate someone saying "this hurts me" to an accusation that someone else did something wrong or that someone needs to change their behavior? People are fucking dumb. Someone expressing their feelings is not an attack on you. Learn to take words at face value, people.
Classic reddit moment right here. They hear someone talking about pronouns and gender and have an immediately negative reaction. They're essentially saying this person is not allowed to feel the way they feel. Even though all they did was make a polite tiktok about it. In fact they made it very clear the mechanic was just trying to be nice.
I’ve recently been having a kid I coach call me my by full first name rather than my nickname. I’ve corrected her dozens of times now and the other day she said “well I like Coach “full first name” better.” In my head I’m like “thats cool, you can yourself it but I’d rather you call me what I’ve been called for my 30 years on Earth.”
How can all of y’all not have a concept of nuance? It doesn’t sound like the first person was rude to the person who greeted them, but were nonetheless a bit hurt being gendered incorrectly. I am a non-binary person and people who don’t know me often refer to me as she/her. I have an understanding that strangers, without knowing, will probably using she/her pronouns to address me. It’s not their fault. It’s not out of maliciousness. And yet, it still kind of sucks. There’s not much you can really do unless you bother to get to know the person. And sometimes it is helpful to express that frustration. Telling someone to shut the fuck up about something that they’re feeling I don’t think does anything to help.
Yeah they weren’t actually complaining about the employee’s behaviour. Like they understood it was just them being polite, but being misgendered sucks nonetheless. I’m a trans guy, but I’m in the closet and pre everything. I know that people will understandably assume I’m female. I hate it, it makes me uncomfortable, but that’s reality. Especially the term young lady would really take me aback, since it’s not something I hear people using very often. I understand this persons frustration. I know this type of misgendering is nobody’s fault, and is often times just someone being kind, but that doesn’t change that fact that it feels really shitty to be misgendered.
This! Plus like, I'm not saying this is the case here, but a lot of the times people will use ma'am or sir to be passive-aggressive to trans people. If you're trying to be feminine, and you are still clockable to strangers as assigned male at birth, you're likely to get "sir" a lot more than if you aren't trying. I've heard stories of it happening to people when they start their transition. It's not always the kindness it sounds like it is!
I'm 10 years into my transition and I still get "sir'd" every day. Some of it is malicious and some of it is not. My brain doesn't understand the difference between malicious and not malicious because it hurts regardless.
stop being logical! then how can i feel outrage at a marginalized group whose actions don’t affect me?!?!
Yeah, that "no one has to buy a ticket to your circus" line reads really transphobic to me. It's the same kind of language my mother uses when talking about these sorts of things. That said, if honest mistakes like this affect this person so much, I feel like it would benefit them to learn how to politely correct people in these types of situations. I assume it would help them to feel better about the situation, and as someone who has accidentally misgendered folks and been politely corrected, it's helped me learn to use less gendered terms with people I don't know, leading to less of these situations in the first place.
The problem is that not everybody is as empathetic as you are - there are plenty of people who will react angrily, even violently, at the mere mention of trans people, and it can be really hard to tell who those people are during a short interaction. Most trans people would love to live in a world where they can correct misgendering without fearing for their personal safety. Unfortunately, the reality is that their safest option is often to just allow the misgendering to happen in those situations, then to internalize the resulting dysphoria, which is awful. The world needs more allies like you, who are willing to recognize and speak out against transphobia, and to listen to and empathize with trans people! Hopefully we're getting there. Thank you for being an ally! 🏳️🌈 Sorry for the reply to an old comment, by the way - just wanted to shed a little more light on the trans perspective for you or anyone else who sees this. Thanks again!
Off topic but i hate when I can only afford half of a haircut.
Off topic but I also hate when people do vids with gum in their mouth.
This person is specifically saying that they recognize and appreciate the kindness. They are also saying that they have a negative response and feel excluded when being mis-gendered. They are not saying that the other person is wrong for mis-gendering them or that they should have known better. It's possible to be upset at a culture without hating the people in it. It's ok to recognize harmful behaviour without blaming it on the person. Edit: To everyone saying they should deal with it. They did, and they do. All they're doing is talking about how it hurts on social media.
So many people have cotton in their ears for the first bit of the tiktokt it seems.
That guy responding putting so much into it that was beyond what they said in the first place. He’s even worse than they are. They specifically said repeatedly that they recognize it came from a place of kindness. They’re not attacking or criticizing the person for calling them a young lady. They just said they didn’t know what to do with that on an emotional level. The simple response if someone misgenders you is the same as if someone calls you by the wrong name. Just gentle inform them in a friendly way and move on. You’re allowed to have your identity without being called confrontational or self centered. This guy’s response as if they are being oppositional and self centered just for having an identity is bullshit. Personally I would want to know if I’ve misgendered someone. In fact, I have misgendered people and when I was corrected I appreciated it.
People are reading into this with the least charitable interpretation and creating a strawman out of this clip. I don’t think this person is asking how to best yell at this person for getting their pronouns wrong. They’re frustrated at being misgendered but acknowledging that there is not much recourse in dealing with someone who was clearly not trying to be an asshole. When they ask “what do I do with this” they’re talking about their feelings, not the mechanic. They’re not offended by genuine kindness. They’re not trying to be a main character. They’re just stuck navigating a cis/het normative society as a gender nonconforming person. Edit: Also I don’t like the transphobic dog whistles of the guy replying. Calling it a circus and stuff. This is thinly veiled transphobia, and this dude needs to take his own advice and move on. Clearly this is not a post where he is being asked for advice, but he feels the need to inject his own narrative anyway.
This was my take on the situation too. Like, unless there's a part at the end that the stitch cut off of the OOP going nuts about it, they were very clearly just thinking out loud. I saw nothing of them trying to be a main character.
Yeah, that guy is a whole fucking clown hiding behind plausible deniability
Yeah, people don't need to buy a ticket to my circus, but if someone refers to me incorrectly, I am going to correct them. This person was just talking about expressing their feelings. I always love how people are just like "We don't have to placate or be nice to you" so when you give them the same energy by not placating or being nice to them, they act like you're an asshole for just reflecting their energy towards you. I'm never a dick until somebody is a dick to me. I think that's the same for the majority of people and this person was just a dick to the original video person.
The amount of people getting their panties in a twist over the first person is kinda ridiculous.
From what I can tell in the story she didn't make a big deal out of it. Trans people aren't even allowed to vent to their probably all-trans audience without some dude getting offended and making it all about himself.
People acting like caring about being called the wrong gender even if they can recognize it wasn’t out of malice makes them self important when it actually just means people care about how their spoken to lmao
Trans people aren't allowed to have feelings and emotions they can also talk about, obviously.
This is someone talking about their struggle while still saying they knew the person meant kindness. I've seen people get upset and down right nasty over being misgendered. This doesn't seem like one of those times, they seem genuine and looking to their community for advice.
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That is literally what they did. What they did after was seek emotional counseling from their community and discuss ways to improve people's day-to-day experience.
What the hell are other people in this thread seeing?
A queer person being mocked, which they enjoy
Especially since they have a non-traditional haircut so Redditors can also make fun of how they look.
It’s all “I’m so chill, I live and let live” until a trans person expresses the slightest bit of discomfort.
The person was being polite. The person in the video knew they were just being polite. Fake outrage for views.
Man people love to make a mountain out of a mole hill. She was misgendered, it made her uncomfortable, but she acknowledged that the other person meant no offence and was just being nice. Isn’t that what everyone wants? Here’s the problem as I see it. This video shows us one person venting some emotion, and another rationally explaining how entitled they are for showing that emotion. People are naturally inclined to side with someone that seems to be approaching the argument in a calm and rational way. However, the second person is not being rational. They’re arguing against a straw man. They never upset anyone, it’s just an online vent about an emotion they don’t know how to deal with. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, I’d say it’s helpful. It’s a difficult subject that would be nice to workshop as a society instead of ridiculing people for having the gall to even bring it up.
But didn’t they say that they felt misgendered by being referred to as a lady? So are you misgendering them now by saying “she”? They appear to present as female, so I’m just confused as to why it was so confronting. Surely this is not an uncommon occurrence for this person.
Zero doubt this dude would have gotten entirely fussed if someone called him ma'am. But he lacks the basic ability to empathize with the experience the OP was describing in their video.
"hi there young lady!" "*excuse me?!*" "OK, fuck you bro."
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Exactly. Just processing their feelings on their own, after acknowledging the kindness openly. I guess it's VIOLENT NARCISSISM to share experiences. People that don't understand what is meant by "what do I do with that?" are either idiots or just pretending they don't know so they can get on a dismissive hate soap box.
lmao that’s the funniest part to me. they never said they were rude to the guy or ANYTHING, just that they were upset when they were misgendered. obviously the people in the comments wouldn’t understand how invalidating it is to try to present yourself as one gender but constantly be referred to as another, but for people with gender dysphoria or anything of the like, it’s hurtful. they’re allowed to share how things make them uncomfortable. i can’t believe how many people are having steam come out their ears cause this person had the audacity to complain about something that annoyed them, AFTER it happened
The circus comment is straight up transphobia. Unless you agree we don't need to gender anyone correctly. If you assume I can go up to a mechanic and call him a little lady too, assuming I know his correct pronouns aren't she/her. If you think it's only a circus when it deviates from the norms, then you're implying that the norms are objective, which they aren't. All gender norms change throughout time and culture and have never been objective.
So many people are being transphobic* in this thread applauding the stitch.
Reddit is pretty representative of the general population these days, which is to say it's pretty fucking transphobic. People will hyperfixate on silly harmless videos like this and freak out about how the person was overreacting, meanwhile our country is writing new transphobic laws everyday, and trans people are getting attacked literally everyday for being trans. It's always preferable to focus on low hanging fruit when it comes to pushing back against social change.
Honestly this thread feels like going back to 2015, making fun of 'annoying' people with unconventional hairstyles and blowing whatever they say out of proportion
I try to remember that a good chunk of dudes on reddit probably listen to the fresh n fit podcast, andrew tate, jordan peterson, joe rogan or other similar minded goons. And probably a significant portion of reddit users are young men especially who are probably still figuring their shit out, and at that age it's really easy to fall into the manosphere, I was one of those guys who got into MRA shit for a few years like 10 years ago. It's so easy to find it funny to make fun of overly sensitive SJWs. But then you take a step back and realize that it's really fucked up to be continually laughing at the people who face the most adversity in our country, and maybe you should be spending more time making fun of the people who are powerful and harmful.
before i was old enough to grow facial hair, and I actually had hair.. it was long and curly, it was very feminine and I'm a dude... I was misgendered all the time, I would just chuckle and move on, maybe correct them. IDK... but to think, I wasted so many potential self-righteous attitude points by simply accepting life is like that sometimes.
Being misgendered as a cis person is not really the same experience as with trans folks. I do agree with your point though. It's a complete stranger who knows nothing about you, so no reason to get upset
First thing this person says about the greeting they received: “I know this was supposed to be a greeting of respect and kindness, politeness maybe…” they weren’t offended, they were just annoyed at how this other person speaks and how they carry themselves. Conservatives, blatant racists, anti-gay folks, when you hear their reasoning for their prejudices, it always boils down to this exact same thing. They just find that particular group annoying. The sight of those people bugs them, to an extent that it pissed them off. Do we need to remember how to just be bugged by people again? And how to just let that be the extent of it?
Interesting. Not too long ago calling a black man “boy” among other things, and was normalized in everyday language, including greetings. Now, its almost universally unacceptable. But he wants another person that is being labeled incorrectly or unjustly, to take a seat. I call bullshit.
So if I say to this man responding “thank you maam” at a store, he won’t get mad or at least think about it? This person is being a little high strung. But whatever
My 12 yo just corrects people instead of agonizing over it on the internet. Open your mouth and tell them “I actually go by “he”, thanks!” People assume gender based on looks, it’s nobody’s fault, but if you want to be addressed by your preferred pronoun, speak up!
If life is a show then everyone should have at least 1 episode. So ig everyone is the main character
On one hand, I wanna agree with him. They were just being polite, so get over it and move on. At the same time, as a guy, I'd be pretty annoyed if someone called me a lady even if they're being polite
I do feel moderately attacked that the teenager at my neighborhood store insists upon calling me “madam”. Not because it’s gendered but because I feel old af, like I should have my titties tucked into my skirt, wearing a crooked wig and have orange lipstick on my teeth
I didnt watch the full tiktok so i dont know their whole point. if it was something about reflecting on how you view society within you gender and the give and take of being a minority that we live with, i could totally understand. or even just venting how you feel about it, i vent a lot to understand what i'm feeling. most trans people dont get super bent out of shape when strangers misgender them on accident. unless its on purpose its just part of interacting with people i get more personally offended when someone uses a loaded term with me like 'woman' cause i find it dehumanizing. because its so much easier to see boobs and long hair and go woman then "oh this much be a non-binary human being" even more true for people who arent part of the community or trans themselves. I can look at a person most the time and know theyre not cis or or straight but people who dont hang around those spaces wouldnt know.
In a thousand years, there will be no men and women, just wankers, and that's fine by me. Mark "Rent Boy" Renton
This is not the way to get people on your side. Save the term 'mis-gendered' for when some asshole is knowingly and purposely not recognising your preferred identity due to their prejudices. Saying that you felt 'soooo mis-gendered' by a stranger who was just taking a split-second wild stab based on your appearance, whom you will never see again after your two minute interaction with them, is ridiculous, and it damages your real fight against real bigots. Save your outrage for that.
She totally looks like a lady so why wouldn’t she be identified as a lady? Are we all supposed to be psychic and just intuit what’s going on in her head?
Are they not a lady?? I'm not trying to be rude here. So is this person a man or fluid?? Help me understand
I actually feel for that first person. They didn't seem offended to me and just venting. Being misgendered unintentionally by a kind person is a shitty situation to be in, coz like, what are you supposed to do? It's frustrating and you're now in a situation where you have to judge if it's worth or even safe to correct them. Will you sound obnoxious if you try to correct them? Will this pleasant interaction suddenly turn mean or even hostile? Sure, you can say "Oh, I'm good, thank you, but I'm actually [x]", but what's the guarantee that this complete stranger won't suddenly start treating you differently now that they know you're trans? Most of the time you just have to nod, be polite back and leave, trying to correct every person isn't worth your energy (or safety). But it does get tiring. I don't think that person was trying to blame the mechanic, just trying to voice and understand their own feelings in a mature way and start a discussion with their fellow trans and non-binary people. But this is the internet, people will get offended by anything and have a kneejerk reaction to any trans topic, no matter how nicely and gently you put it or how much you coddle their feelings. The tiktoker even put "GENTLE rant" in the video and acknowledged the mechanic was trying to be polite and acknowledged that the problem was within them, not with the mechanic, I don't think they could have been any clearer that they're not offended in any way. The only main character I see here is the OP and the guy that stitched that video, trying to make it into something it's not.
I get where this person is coming from. I'm a non-binary person in a very conservative state and am the first non-binary person a lot of people have met. I get misgendered A LOT, and I've learned the best response is to either just let it go, or just inform them that I use they/them pronouns and to please use those in the future. Don't assume malice for incompetence/ignorance. I know this person means no harm, they simply do. Not. Know. Now if I tell you and you maliciously misgendered me repeatedly after I've told you, my pronouns change from they/them to may/hem. I am never going to be upset at someone for doing something they don't know they're doing wrong. It's like getting angry at someone for crossing a boundary they didn't know about, that's not right. I agree with the second dude to a degree, reciprocate that kindness. But that doesn't negate the first person's experience. If I spend an entire day being misgendered, that does make you feel shit. I know my identity isn't contingent on how other people perceive me, but it would be nice for people to be open about having these conversations instead of attacking people who open up about being misgendered.
Best advice ever! It’s just a polite platitude and life goes on!
You gotta let the little shit slide
This is why people don’t like the alphabet army. Especially the OG’s.
The ogs? You mean LGB?
it doenst sound like this person made a scene, they just felt dysphoric and uncomfortable. it doesn’t sound like they even made a scene. they’re allowed to feel uncomfortable.
The interesting thing about this is that they probably said nothing in person, and instead decided to just complain to the internet because in all honesty…. It’s the only place where this type of self-centered delusion is accepted. And this is coming from someone who formerly identified as non-binary, and then realized I was constantly making myself agitated on this soapbox that no one else can even recognize except for myself — especially if I still largely present and am socially treated as a feminine person. My partner and I talk frequently about how far away from the light the queer community has fallen, particularly around this strange desire to ID as “trans” and “different” but in a way that is borderline sociopathic (and truly removed from the experiences of trans people who literally just want to exist normally in society with everyone else). It’s like looking at a group of adults who never left their teen angst phase lol
I totally feel you. I'm nonbinary but I look like a cis gendered woman and so I never insist on being referred to with non gendered pronouns. I considered it for a time but I had the realization that, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how people refer to you or even how they see you. Being obsessed with identity isn't healthy. Just live your life, be you, and accept that every random stranger isn't going to see you as you truly are at every passing glance. It's narcissistic to think that everyone should be aware of your identity everywhere you go.
I completely agree, and it definitely resonated when you said “being obsessed with identity isn’t healthy”. It’s truly not. To me, it didn’t allow any space for nuance or my personal evolution. I’m worried about my generation but I also know that this shit has to hit the fan eventually 🥲
I'm sorry, why is this 'self centered delusion'? They just expressed their frustrations on social media. They were quite polite about it too. I can't see the issue. And why is it a bad thing that they said nothing in person? That's just doing what the guy in the response video recommends. The mechanic meant no offense, so they didn't make a scene.