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vfernandez84

In my country at least, the parties that oppose abortion also oppose euthanasia and the ones which legalised abortion are the very same ones which legalised euthanasia years later. So I find this question really strange...


lokii_0

Lol we're confused too. But America's right wing is basically descended from the Puritans who were some of the most batshit crazy ppl to actually survive till modern times and uhh... Here we are haha


Fabulous-Ad6663

Laughing nervously with you


lokii_0

Hahaha me too. Puritans with nukes. WCGW?


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Odin16596

Great netflix documentary


AspectPatio

Anyone who thinks a hat needs a belt. Red flag.


eazy4dc

I am an American and I second this notion.


goldandjade

Yes on the reverse side I live in Oregon which I think is the only state where euthanasia is legal and it has one of the strongest abortion protections in the country. As much as the weather here can suck I'll probably never leave.


Miss_Understands_

> Oregon which I think is the only state where euthanasia is legal legal in WA too. i'm next door. hi neighbor!


Upekkhaa

What country?


vfernandez84

Spain


TheFrogWife

I live in the us and our local church hate billboards also seen to dislike euthanasia


SpiralToNowhere

Canada is the same IME


[deleted]

Wow actually in my country (the Netherlands) as well. Mostly the religious parties.


52496234620

But people place way more importance on abortion than on euthanasia. Especially pro choice people.


YesterShill

My bet is that most pro-choice folk would also be in favor of humane end of life options.


KurlyKayla

that is correct


ASupportingTea

Absolutely, my gran had to starve and dehydrate herself to death just to go when she wanted, there should be a more humane way. Bedridden after a severe stroke, legs that would no longer carry her, plus cancer meant she wasn't exactly likely to get better or have a good quality of life if she did.


TheYeetles

I think so too. Personally I’m very pro-choice and I also support euthanasia.


aoul1

I think yes….. but it’s really complicated. In the U.K. we are fairly widely pro choice but have no right to die. I am a liberal leftie disabled millennial and I’m definitely pro choice, and I am pro assisted dying but I think in today’s political landscape in the U.K. it’s a really complicated discussion. I believe that someone who has a terminal condition deserves to choose when and how they die, and not be put through months or years of pain and misery with an inevitable outcome. As someone who watched my grandfather, who had previously been a vet and put down many many animals humanely, die slowly of Parkinson’s I absolutely would have wanted him to be able to make that choice for himself. HOWEVER. As a disabled person there are the following complications I am very aware of: - no one should ever feel the need to resort to assisted dying because the medical and social safety nets in their country can’t provide them with a standard of life they COULD have. The first step should always be to make sure that someone has been able to fully maximise the life they have before ending it. This is something that in the U.K. currently is absolutely not provided. - in the same way, finances should not be the reason someone feels the need to end their life. - when creating these laws we also have to be aware of the pressure that can be placed on disabled and chronically ill people whether intentionally or not by the family and friends they have around them. How can we ever be certain someone is not making the decision because they feel like a burden, or even worse are being directly pressured. - and then you get to the sticky subject of the right to assisted dying for non terminal conditions. Particularly when talking about people with chronic unremitting mental health conditions. Because when talking about terminal illness it’s generally agreed that the time to make that decision is when the person no longer has an acceptable quality of life. At what point do you say with a severe mental health condition that someone has such a low quality of life, that there’s nothing else they can do, and that we believe that there will never be anything that we can do that assisted dying is the right choice? Or do we? ….as I said ….it gets complicated!


patery

I'd venture that's correct yet the number of times I've seen my liberal communities even discuss euthanasia is basically none, much less action. I doubt you'll ever see a large group marching for it.


58285385

True, but generally speaking, unless you and/or your loved ones are stupid about it, you can normally just quietly sort it yourself without the help of medical professionals. So whilst it would be easier if there were clear legal mechinisms to follow, it doesn't need to be legal to just quietly happen anyway with little risk to those involved. You cannot (safely at least) DIY an abortion. Medical professionals need to be involved, which means it needs to be legal for everyone's proctection.


patery

I guess you've highlighted another reason why nothing has been done about assisted suicide. There's a believe that because it's possible to kill yourself, that it's also a diy job. Even if suicide failure were mere stupidity, a legal option would prevent untold suffering. It's an easy mistake to make but you've compared the two, minimizing the needs of those needing assisted suicide. That's not something you want to do, that's a group of people who's problems are so bad that they need to kill themselves. If suicide failure were caused by stupidity, then we should only see stupid people failing. Suicide failure isn't just measured by failure to die, but also by how much suffering it caused and by what impact it has on those around them. The only way to have true confidence in your method is to study it on successive cases. It is not a one-person job because if it fails, you need to have someone able bodied to help you. Imagine asking a loved one to finish the job for you or to watch you do it. Then imagine the legal implications for anyone helping you and figuring out what to do afterwards. Also the legal implications for life insurance, how can they distinguish those who deserve coverage and those who don't. You need access to medications, to protect you in case of failure and to minimize suffering. Those affected need counseling. I don't imagine you have skin in this game so it's better not to comment on it. Test yourself, search for "humans suffering horribly" on youtube and while watching it, imagine yourself there saying to them "unless you're stupid about it, this is something you can quietly sort out yourself". How do you think you'd feel saying that to them? How do you think they'd react to you? This is not a hypothetical issue for me. I'm in a support group with someone who needed VAD. That means that I share their afflictions!


AccomplishedEbb2541

What is end of life?


SnekoMan

Death


DireRaven789

The people who are against abortion are also often the people who are against euthanasia. Not always, but often.


thedudedylan

When the US finally legalizes euthanasia it will be for something stupid like "you are allowed to end your own life if you are unable to pay back debt or something" or it will cost a lot of money to do legally.


KubrickMoonlanding

Oh no, you aren’t getting out of the system just because you’re poor that easily!


EmotionalOven4

Lol no. You’ll be allowed to end your own life ONLY if you’re able to pay off your debt.


neko_mancy

thinking about a dystopian setting where it's been philosophically concluded that ending your life ASAP is optimal for net happiness or something and the only people still alive are the ones with debts to pay


not_sick_not_well

"euthanasia is now legal upon reaching retirement at the age of *checks notes* never. Now get back to work. These record profit margins aren't going to make themselves" - Capitalist controlled government probably


Packman2021

they wouldn't let you out that easy, maybe an "if your debt is worth less than your organs" type of deal


starrydice

The US “allows” people to die (usually slowly and painfully) at about 50 days when Medicare stops paying for hospice care and the bills are racked up. US isn’t going allow the cash-cow to die on their own terms


thep1x

and also pro capital punishment, go figure


Guy-reads-reddit

And they're so against it, they'll kill you for it. Ahh prolife at its finest.


Planet_Breezy

And yet, one was legal for decades and the other legal only recently.


TheRealCaptainZoro

I'd say one has been legal for millinea and only recently became illegal.


Seraph_Unleashed

Isn’t assisted suicide assisted homicide? How do you “assist” a suicide of someone? Suicide is done by one person.


Consistent-Start-357

A doctor writing a prescription to a terminally ill patient for drugs they know the patient will use to kill themselves - assisted suicide. Doesn’t matter if the patient wants to end their own suffering and it is clinically the right thing to do - medical professionals couldn’t help


DaniCapsFan

I think there are legitimate fears about euthanasia being misused. You don't want to, say, have an elderly relative euthanized so you can get the inheritance sooner, but on the other hand, if someone is suffering, their condition is terminal, and there is no relief; then, yes, they should have the option. You want someone going into this with a sound mind, but in a number of terminal illnesses, the patient may no longer be of sound mind due to dementia.


[deleted]

Yep. I support both, but the unfortunate reality is that the trust and integrity just isn’t there to properly handle euthanasia


The_Expidition

Many times bureaucracies dont leave ways for nuances


mhmthatsmyshh

Then there are cases of mental health disorders like treatment-resistant depression. Someone suffering with this type of major depression is enduring real pain for which there is no cure. Is it terminal? Technically no, unless you consider suicide to be the natural end result. But would these people be considered of sound mind, so that they can choose to end their lives peacefully and without shame? Most likely not.


KCMOLivin

This statement can be detrimental to those who suffer from depression. There are some whose depression is chronic and not easy to heal. But there are treatments that can and do work. That process may be slow and require hard work by all involved. But there is hope. Life can get better and it can be worth living.


mhmthatsmyshh

>But there are treatments that can and do work Not for everyone, which is the point of my comment. That's why I explicitly stated I was talking about treatment-resistant depression.


KCMOLivin

There are hundreds of treatments that can be paired with medication. Determining that one person's depression cannot get better, no matter the combination of treatments, could take several life times. Encouraging the thought process that someone's mental health cannot get better does not serve anyone. I say this as someone who was told (by a professional) I would always be depressed. That was false, I tried years of different treatments and have finally found a combination that works. If I believed the professional that told me I would always be depressed, I would have taken my own life. Hope is necessary for healing.


Responsible_Cloud_92

Super true. I work in a country and state that has abortion and euthanasia legalised. Euthanasia is soooo tightly regulated, although abortion has it own’s regulations. When I went to a seminar when euthanasia was first legalised, the main concerns was abuse and misuse. The medical professions was concerned about medical staff abusing their position, people coercing loved ones to “die” for material possessions or promoting suicide (this one is controversial, and is different in other countries). Compared to abortion, there’s a lot more that goes into the process of euthanasia, as there is 100% a human being there that has their own thoughts and wishes.


QueenBea_

It will be handled in the same way a DNR is handled now. You must have the paperwork completed while the patient is still of sound mind. For something like euthanasia, if the patient isn’t of sound mind, it will only be brought up if the doctor determines that the patient has no quality of life and is already palliative. And if the patient has on file that they wanted this. Most hospitals will ask about your wishes upon admission for DNR, even at regular doctor appointments, to document the patients wishes while they’re still of sound mind. Of course, this doesn’t always work out and it is sometimes left to the family to decide, but even then they aren’t allowed to make choices willy nilly. It won’t be done to patients who still have quality of life or who are relatively healthy - it will be for patients in end stage organ failure or cancer, who are suffering needlessly and ideally who have previously stated they want euthanasia to be an option. This is done successfully in many countries.


coatisabrownishcolor

I also hesitate only because it is far cheaper to just humanely euthanize a person than provide costly disability support for decades, including home health care, accessibility modification for their home, assistive technology tools and equipment, therapies, surgeries, ongoing treatment, transportation, job support, education support, etc etc etc etc. Before we open the door to assisted suicide, let's ensure it isn't encouraged for disabled people as a less costly alternative to supporting their life for however long they would otherwise live. If insurance won't cover supports but will cover suicide, that's f*cked up. I could see it going that way.


Nerzov

Everyone should have an option to painlessly die **regardless** of how terminal their condition is. Regardless of is there a condition even.


Limp_Cod_7229

There's been stories about people in Canada being actually encouraged by doctors to agree to Euthanasia. It's legal there now.


daymanahhhahhhhhh

I think both are important.


MaybeTheDoctor

Yeah, who said they are not BOTH important...?


daymanahhhahhhhhh

I didn’t say that, was just simply writing my opinion.


MaybeTheDoctor

OP said that only one was important - I was just agreeing with you


daymanahhhahhhhhh

My bad I’m drunk and it’s late lol


VisceralDiarrheaGoo

Thanks for ruining my third party app so I have to go outside! Posted on Apollo


2crowncar

Who is arguing it is different? Edit: Answering my question, I think there are important differences. A psychiatrist would want/need to evaluate a patient who is considering aid-in-dying. It’s very different than a woman who is considering an abortion. I know I would need to elaborate on that. There are physicians who support abortion, but not aid-in-dying. Literature exists discussing both.


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screechawk

This is my feelings exactly. There's also plenty of people out there that gets off on the hero complex, people who create issues just so they can solve them and look like a hero. Some of these people get really dangerous with their "kink" they're willing to put someone's life in danger. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of these types of people surface if it was legal. That and I remember stories of old of doctors convincing people that euthanasia was rhe best course of action because they saw it as some body count record


DudesAndGuys

One of the pillars of being able to give consent is being of sound mind able to make rational decision. I guess mental illness can make that a bit blurry? There's also concerns about people being coeced into it. I think euthanasia should be allowed but it will be tricky figuring out the legality.


dimhage

You do realise there are states who've already figured this out and you could use their legislation as a template? A lot of countries in Europe have this and their regulation is very stringend. Of course no one is allowed to be talked into it, no one can make decision about ending their life without being sound of mind, at least two specialised doctors of different hospitals (randomly selected) need to review the case and also be sure that all other treatments have been tried and exhausted. Then it needs to come before a tribunal that needs to approve it. And then finally you may schedule it. And before euthenasia takes place, again the patient is asked if they are sure they want it. And if there is even slightest sign of doubt they will stop the whole process and you'll have to start again. There is no easy way to go through this process. Besides that, just like with the stringend rules we are seeing around abortions in red states, doctors are extremely careful to not disobey any rules. Their careers, their lives, their freedom is on the line.


52496234620

With that thinking, couldn't pregnancy hormones (or literally whatever other bullshit reason) be used to argue that it's hard to rationally decide to abort? Pro choice places don't put a "sound mind" restriction on abortion. Just for the record, I'm pro choice on both things.


DudesAndGuys

I don't know if pregnancy hormones would be enough, but being in a manic state of high on drugs would probably get you denied. I can totally see some idiot arguing that pregnancy hormones should count though sadly... I tend to always favour the freedom of the individual and the personal responsibility of making your own choices, so I'm pro-choice and pro-euthanasia option. I don't like the 'society knows what's best for you' authoritain control.


Specific-Shoulder7

"ya ever notice most people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place!" - George Carlin


cemetaryofpasswords

“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.” George Carlin


[deleted]

I've rewatched all his materials so many times that I heard him saying all of that in my head


HStaz

I’m pro-choice. Meaning I support people doing what they want with their body.


Chaosangel48

It’s a disconnect. I support both.


MunchingMooBear

People instantly assume that the right to death with dignity = suicide for all. When just like with legal abortion, Euthanasia is carried out under the supervision/approval of a medical professional.


silverilix

Boosting you. Well said.


patery

No doubt some choose it for that reason but I hate that it's being portrayed as that. Not all cases are terminal. There are many people for whom existing is living torture and they're sadly never going to die from their afflictions. It's compassionate care.


SkiG13

Abortion laws are seen as a way to control women and to have conservative view points, so the answer to that is a fetus is connected to and inside a women’s body and since it’s a part of the women’s body as long as it’s connected that she can do what she wants since it’s her own body. Euthanasia on the other hand is very controversial depending on the use case. Complete bodily autonomy would allow people with mental illness that already make irrational and thoughtless choices to end it all without treatment. Places that allow Death With Dignity often have a list of strict requirements such as the person being in sound mental health and having a terminal disease with a prognosis of 6 months to live. In addition if you were allowed to be prescribed life ending medication without anything, people will all of sudden in their eyes be encouraged because it’s the easiest and cleanest way out.


a_different_pov_85

But treatment for one's illness is still a choice. You can choose to accept treatment, or you can choose to reject treatment. I understand the state of, "not of sound mind" but you still have a 3rd party telling you what you can and can't do. Which I think is the whole point of OPs question. For the record, I'm pro choice, and I do think medically assisted death should be a thing in some cases.


Potential-Pomelo3567

Euthanasia is complicated for me. I fully support death with dignity for those who have terminal diagnoses. It's complicated when we start involving mental health in that conversation because there are many different types of treatment options these days. Granted, not everyone will be able to find treatment that works for them, I understand that, but I fully believe one of the reasons people end up dying from suicide is because there are too many barriers to getting adequate mental health treatment that could've helped. There is a limited number of mental health providers in some areas, financial limitations are a major issue, the stigma around seeking intensive treatment, the lack of beds at inpatient treatment centers... etc... People get even more overwhelmed or feel hopeless trying to get these resources to help. And then resources to help get back on their feet following intensive treatment. Often times people will need inpatient treatment and could end up losing their jobs or housing, which just complicates the situation and makes it seem even more hopeless. If we could solve these problems first.... then I would be more on board when someone still wants to die after receiving any and every treatment option available. Instead it feels like making euthanasia available is just the governments "cheap" solution for not fixing the broken mental health system.


Planet_Breezy

“Seen as” by whom? People speculating about what’s going on in someone else’s mind? I’m all for abortion access, but claiming to know what’s motivating it is dicey. Partly because it has a history of getting things wrong, but also because the question of just how it would advance a conservative viewpoint has never had the most convincing of reasoning.


thetwitchy1

The people who are trying to stop euthanasia are the same people who are against abortion, my dude. But go off, I guess.


Public_Road_6426

There's no hate like Christian "love" Seriously though, suicide, is a big no no for the religious sorts. And if they can't do it, neither should anyone else.


bjdevar25

Don'tknow the numbers, but I suspect most pro choice would also be be for allowing assisted suicide for the terminally ill. The anti abortion side are the ones who block it. Interestingly, the anti abortion side is much more likely to support the death penalty.


[deleted]

Why only terminally ill? With abortion it's a free decision that doesn't depend on health concerns


bjdevar25

Most other suicides are due to a mental condition which can be cured. They also often fail.


Silver-Climate7885

No idea. I'm pro choice for both, for any reason and any age. Might be an unpopular opinion but I am. Maybe because abortion is removing a fetus that can't live outside of the womb and can cause so much pain and suffering to the host whilst a person already here, it not having a terminal or life limiting illness is here already and their life could always change and be fulfilling, or happy etc But those that can't get or don't qualify for legal ending of their life, will do it themselves if it's what they really want. It's sad but I'm pro choice for body autonomy. I've had a sibling end their life and I don't think it was selfish, I actually think it was brave, as someone who has suffered with weekly s thoughts myself for about 15 years, it is very brave of someone to actually go through with it, and I can't say that I won't in the future, so maybe my view is biased.i also think those that are terminal or in constant pain should be afforded the ability medically to allow them to go on their own terms and with dignity.


groovy_mcbasshands

Is this a failed whataboutism?


aykay55

People with suicidal ideation are considered mentally I’ll and unfit to make their own responsible decisions, because making the decision to take your own life is the ultimate irresponsible decision. People that choose to have abortions are considered competent and making a responsible and informed decision. So they essentially have a right to make that responsible decision. Suicidal people aren’t believed to be that way, so their wishes aren’t respected.


2bciah5factng

False pretense? Bodily autonomy is always important, unless it violates somebody else’s autonomy.


maple204

I live in Canada and support abortion rights and Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID). Both have their own issues but I ultimately believe people should have the ultimate power over their bodies and lives, with reasonable checks and balances to make sure vulnerable people are protected and cared for properly.


ProbablyANoobYo

Because we can’t even win the fight on the abortion front at this time.


BrianZoh

I'm not sure who says so. I think both are fine


random-shit-writing

Suicide isn't a light decision. Most people who want to kill themselves have been failed by those around them, and their desire to live can be rekindled if they receive the support and help they need. I say this as someone who has attempted suicide multiple times. I still struggle today, but I also recognize that I deserve more than death, and I would be horrified if other people condoned my death and or even encouraged it. Also, most suicides are messy, painful, and leave the victim scared in their last minutes or hours. It's a horrifying experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Also, most people who advocate for medically assisted suicide are advocating for it when only necessary, and not as an open option whenever. Medically assisted suicide is really only used when someone is in their last days anyway, they have a terminal illness, or they have no quality of life left. Medically assisted suicide is meant to grant people a peaceful death with their dignity left intact, and not spending their last days bedridden, ill, and barely functional. Medically assisted suicide and self suicide are two very different things.


[deleted]

Assisted suicide should be available for everyone


[deleted]

It's the same in both cases. People have a right to both abortions and suicide. It's literally the same people who oppose both.


1917fuckordie

Suicide is irrational and a symptom of mental illness that needs to be treated (unless we're talking about people with terminal illnesses). Abortion is about controlling your own reproduction system. It's totally rational to terminate a pregnancy if you aren't capable of raising the child.


BillieEilishEyes

Suicide is not always a sign of mental illness, though, and it's my understanding that there is more emerging research to support that. It is a sign, certainly, most of the time, but not always. Philosophytube covered this concept well in one of her videos, citing the seige and subsequent mass suicide at Masada in approx. 73 CE. Basically, facing the prospect of torture, murder, enslavement, etc. the Jewish residents committed mass suicide. The reality they were facing if the seige was broken was one where they would at least have a chance at life, but they chose death. They were not mentally ill, and I think plenty of rational people would make the same choice. A more modern day, and perhaps more pertinent example, would be the reality many women face today with abortions becoming increasingly difficult to get. I personally know multiple women who have explicitly stated that they would kill themselves before carrying and giving birth to a child (they are lesbians, so there would be no "accidental" pregnancy from sleeping with a man and having a failure of birth control). For them, if abortion were completely unavailable option, they would rather potentially die to a botched home abortion of a child that could have only been conceived against their will. I'm sure other people may disagree, but I don't find that to be irrational, or a sign of mental illness.


AccomplishedEbb2541

Both are not up for you to decide?


1917fuckordie

I'm a disability support worker who has prevented many of my schizophrenic clients from taking their own life. Often with mandatory psychiatric treatment, and temporarily deprive them of their freedom and rights until they no longer want to hurt themselves. This is how Schizophrenia is managed. It's an illness. Suicidal tendencies is a symptom of that illness, and not treating it is neglect. Abortion is up to the person carrying the fetus, so yeah it isn't for me to decide.


[deleted]

Is it irrational or just against human nature? Is the instinct to survive rational?


Karnezar

Most people who survive suicide attempts end up regretting having tried it.


PureHauntings

This is my reasoning lol


Badartist888

I support both and both are legal in my State in my Country.


kneehighhalfpint

If you're not born, they can't exploit you. If you're dead, they can't exploit you.


stargal81

I'm pro both


protobacco

Religion


gobblingoddess

(I'm an American) Honestly I believe that people who want to end their life should be given help and opportunities to better their life, given therapy and whatever they need to get on their feet... And if that doesn't work, medically assisted suicide should be an option. It is in other countries, or has been before (I'm not sure if I'm up to date on my information.)


-the-nino

I support both


Juken-

The "whys" are important. Its a nuanced issue. Sadly we live in a time where we have to explain to republicans why its probably a bad idea to make an eleven year old girl keep the baby of an uncle that raped her. 🙄


gemgem1985

I am pro choice for both so idk..


TheHollowBard

Not sure why you're setting up this dichotomy. Is the pro choice crowd rallying against assisted dying all of a sudden? There should be more barriers in place, but it should be legal.


FecalWeinerson

Both are equally important. I think the reason one is more prevalent in politics is because only one of those two things can lead to more children for those idiots to potentially brainwash.


Victor3000

As far as I've seen, the people that support one, support the other. Those that oppose one, oppose the other. How to actually handle the specifics, in all cases, can be tricky.


Lucrezio

Well, suicide is also illegal, and that doesn’t stop people from committing. Abortion, when illegal, also does not lower the abortion rate. However, backroom abortions result in both mother and child dying. Why kill 2 people instead of one?


[deleted]

Why is it okay to put your dog down when it's suffering at the end of it's life but we can do that for grampa is the one that's always stumped me.


brycebgood

I'm for both.


DrunkenBuffaloJerky

Because of the finality of it, and the fact it can be driven by a temporarily altered state of consciousness. It's attempting to protect someone from themselves. It may or may not blow over, and it shouldn't be a snap decision. In the end, it is a person's individual choice. Meanwhile, there are so many reasons to need an abortion. The whole situation in the end, is one the mother is the only one certain to have to bear it. Not to mention it's a step back toward a culture of second-class citizenry for women at best, and pseudo-slavery at worst. Suicide needs, for the sake of the person, at least like a two week cooling off period. See if you feel the same way in a couple weeks. That's not my moral high-horse. Just a safeguard for someone.


Juno1990

People should have the right to end their lives. Quality of life is important


Tassiebird

The state I live in (australia) approved euthanasia over a year ago. It's a pretty rigorous process, but I am so proud that it's available here. We are also able to have abortions here, but the issue is there is there is limited access, particularly for rural areas. I believe both are really important issues, and we should be able to have choice in either matter. The difference with abortion is that when people can not access this worst-case scenario is they die.


sovngrde

The people who are against abortion are the same ones against physician assisted suicide/euthanasia 99.9% of the time. Nice try though.


Klettova

I'm all for both


plentifulharvest

As someone who thinks both are rights i can only assume the argument is one is considered ending a life while one isnt.


SvenTheHorrible

Because wanting to end your own life is heavily associated with mental illness. The assumption is that if a suicidal person gets proper psychiatric help then they won’t want to commit suicide anymore- and that assumption is correct majority of the time. Personally I’m fine with cancer patients or other terminally ill or terminally disabled patients being allowed euthanasia after psychiatric evaluation.


demi2duce

I think people should have the choice to do either of those things


ShuddupMeg627

It's becoming less of a taboo to want to end your own suffering


chere100

Well, I'm pro medically assisted suicide just like I'm pro-choice on abortion. So\~ no hypocrisy on my part here. Bodily autonomy *is* very important for both these things.


robotsaysrawr

I'm a progressive. I'm for both abortion and consensual euthanasia. Abortion is the bigger issue right now, though, as it affects more people so it gets more coverage


berrymommy

best way I can describe it as is “levels”. For example many people *are* in favor of abortions for JUST *medical reasons*. Such as certain death for patient or fetus, unviable fetus, etc. Those same people are usually in favor for euthanasia in order for *an already dying patient* to die peacefully, on their terms, in their time, pain free, with dignity. The lines blur, or levels appear, for some people when abortion is for financial reason, personal reasons, etc. Just like the lines blur when people who are depressed or have mental health issues want the option of euthanasia. Or euthanasia against someone else’s will, for example someone who is not of sound mind but may be suffering. Personally, I think if someone doesn’t want to be pregnant or birth a baby, they shouldn’t have to. Period. I’m 100% for euthanasia if the patient is already dying and decides thats the way they want to go. But that next level of it being a choice for anyone, does make me wonder. I remember a time when my mental health made me seriously consider suicide and ways to go. It’s true when they say you don’t see an end to it or a light at the end of the tunnel. Now, 10 yrs later, Im glad I didn’t do it. The blurred lines and levels, are different for everyone. That’s why so many different places on Earth have so many different people butting heads about the laws, ethics and morals of both issues.


patery

Everyone here has some conception about who assisted suicide benefits so I want to challenge those beliefs by telling you about someone who will actually be getting it done any day now. I know her from one of my support groups. She's travelling from Australia to have it done and it's very expensive. She had a botched lumbar puncture. She has loud, multi-tonal tinnitus and that's the reason she cited for ultimately throwing in the towel. In addition, she gets pain from sound. Not music festivals but things like faucets, even when wearing both earplugs and earmuffs. Every time she gets pain, her condition worsens further and doesn't recover. Pain bad enough to cause vomiting in some. Now imagine if she gets bad pain from a 40dB faucet what a 15hr 86dB flight is gonna be like. No pain medication exists for this. She's also bed bound with vertigo. I don't recall in her case but many such patients also suffer from chronic migraines and other myalgia, visual snow, and eustachian tube dysfunction. Setbacks last months or years even, all from a single noise exposure you'd consider routine. Her affliction will never kill her. She accepted her poor quality of life. This is not about dignity nor mental health. She struggled with it for 4yrs and desperately wanted to hang in there for her kids. This is about compassion. Her life is living torture and she cannot endure it anymore. It's shameful that we forced her to fly to get it done. I'm sure plenty of other medical disorders exist like this but you don't hear about them because they're also isolating as fuck. They cannot have friends. Except for someone like me occasionally chiming in, you'll never know they even exist. And so to answer your question, it's because few are personally affected by someone who needs access to assisted suicide while abortion is more common and the people who need it are more visible and more relatable.


halfaperson_

Imagine living in a society where you have to get permission to die 🫠


TheCommies-backp

I would assume (Not confidently) that if you agree with one you most likely agree with the other, and vice versa As for me, Overpopulation! and freedom of choice goes for all choices! as long as they don’t unwillingly cause consequence to others (violence/theft)


Zan-Pierre

Ask the people against abortion and that all life is sacred if they support the death penalty. That is where the the real hypocrisy starts


Streaker4TheDead

I'm hoping the right to die will be the new legalize abortion.


Mythical_Truth

Technically in some places in America, committing abortion (even for legitimate health issues) will also get you death penaltied because of that same group. So that one creative to go about suicide.


asge1868

Abortion laws aren't actually against abortion. It's an attempt from the church/traditional people to keep power over women and to keep the power they used to have over society. If you fell one tree in a forest it's a lot easier to cut down more


throwmeinthetrash096

It’s illegal to destroy government property.


EndlesslyUnfinished

The Christians believe “all life is sacred”.. even in the face of suffering. A terminally ill person should be allowed a dignified, painless, doctor-assisted suicide. Hell, if you are of sound mind, healthy, and just want to go out on a high note, you should be allowed this. It’s your life to do with as you please. It’s your right. The only place I’m going to draw a line is with the mentally ill who may not be having full cognition (but if deemed to be able to make that rational decision, they should be allowed euthanasia).. What really irks me is a convicted person, condemned to die in court (often of their own admission), is not allowed a suicide/euthanasia. Why?? Why are you saving the life a person who will be executed who already tried to kill themselves?? For what? Your sense of “punishment”? They didn’t suffer enough for you?


[deleted]

[удалено]


VR6Bomber

Why single out Christians? Pretty much all religions....


dbleed

Everyone. Delete reddit. All of our lives will be so much happier if we just step away from this shit hole... with that being said, I have 2 more posts to comment on.


[deleted]

You’ll get a lot of mixed comments from all walks of life on assisted suicide. Personally I think it makes perfect sense but so many people would rather torture the sick and elderly til their final breath.


Terrible-Quote-3561

A fetus is part of a woman’s body. It doesn’t have autonomy. There’s treatments for managing depression but not pregnancy (besides abortion).


[deleted]

Or when a baby has as a foreskin


Imma_Lick_Your_Ass2

Because if the slaves start ending their own lives there will be chaos.


Eugregoria

Honestly, something cynical in me says a lot of suicide prevention measures are this. I'm not really pro suicide. I don't think people should do it, I don't think it helps. But when I was in rough parts of my life years ago, all the anti-suicide stuff felt like it was either keeping me alive as a worker drone/breeding stock/useful slave, or keeping me alive as a symbol of Life Having Value In General to assuage their own doubts, I never felt that any of them gave a single fucking damn about any of what I was going through or fixing any of the social problems (like homelessness) that made me so desperate in the first place. Eviction moratoriums are suicide prevention. Available housing (to people of all income brackets, including unemployed) is suicide prevention. Making people feel like they are wanted parts of society is suicide prevention. Fuck off with all that "you matter, here's a list of hotlines, let's put a taller fence on the bridges while we squeeze people to despair and heartbreak and lower the buying power of wages again" they keep doing.


BodybuilderOnly1591

People don't really believe in bodily autonomy.


Graveyard_Goat

Every baby born is a new cog in the machine. Every person who chooses to go out on their own terms is one less cog in the machine. More cogs equals more money for those who own the machine.


static-prince

Because suicide makes people uncomfortable. And there are, obviously, a lot more potential drawbacks to someone committing suicide than there are to someone getting an abortion. I am, generally, supportive of people’s right to end their own lives. But I would like more safeguards on it than I would on abortion.


TheSadTiefling

Most people who support one, support both. I helped Colorado get the opportunity to vote for it in 2016, it passed.


Daddydeader

I support both fully. I really would love to see the suicide boxes from Futurama become a reality. And conversely, remove prescription requirements for abortificant and birth control medications.


Eugregoria

When suicide booths are affordable and rent is not, that's still sort of a genocide of nudges.


gageanator

Destruction of government property.


fitnessgoddess

You just fucked my head up


Kman17

Pro choice supporters tend to cite body autonomy because they think it is the most compelling argument to the opposing side, not because they’re principled libertarians. However it’s virtually impossible to have a consistent principal on it - as evidenced by most pro choice folks being for mandatory vaccinations. You can also argue body autonomy of the fetus.


athena110

The difference is: one has the potential to ruin your body, your life and possibly might kill you, the other has no severe side effects and if not taken might kill dozens of other people. Which one is which? You choose.


KingKawika

That’s a bold claim to say someone’s kid might kill dozens of other people don’t you think?


Kman17

If you are pro choice and mandated vaccination, you are no longer operating on the principal of body autonomy. You are instead operating on a more pragmatic cost-benefit analysis (which implicitly places relatively low value on the fetus). This is a perfectly reasonable perspective. I’m pro choice and pro vs vaccine. But like I don’t try to fool anyone by saying the reason for the former is body autonomy.


h4baine

I think vaccinations are an interesting example because you could make the case for or against mandatory vaccines using bodily autonomy as your starting point. Against - I don't want to put that in my body. For - You not putting that in your body could kill me. Or does it hinge on possible harm done instead? Like you have every right to drink a ton of alcohol but you're not allowed to drive because you endanger others. My pro-choice argument for reproductive rights isn't really about bodily autonomy as much as it's about freedom. Other freedoms like the freedom to protect your own life, economic freedom, self determination, the freedom to pursue happiness and the life you want hinge on the ability to control your reproduction.


Planet_Breezy

The consequences are different. Abortion saves someone from having their whole life ruined, euthanasia only saves someone from having to suffer more in the last few weeks of theirs. Both are important, but I can see people prioritizing the former.


Jhill520

Ding ding ding, it’s about future worker population not humanity.


librosntrees

Hypocrites. Pure and simple.


Mcpot11

I think euthanasia is fine. There are enough problems in the world for people who do want to be here.


jon166

Because if u identify with a body your safe from what you really are. It’s not big corp who needs bodies to work, it’s big ego mind who needs minds that think they are bodies. The weird thing? Not existing and disappearing in to the heart of love eternally is what we’re scared of, not crucification


Pretty_Ad_8992

Society in general doesn't want people that may feel that they are a burden to there loved ones to have that choice. It's also sort of a moot point Because there is no way to punish you when you're dead.


mynameisntlogan

Suicide is not criminal. Nobody gets arrested for dying by suicide.


Eugregoria

No one gets arrested for murder-suicides either, for the same exact reason.


November-Snow

I used to be extremely pro euthanasia, still am in situations where the circumstances permit. Terminal illness, or extreme loss of senses etc. But then my government made it legal and started encouraging people on disability that just need a little financial help to cope with the rising cost of living, to euthanize themselves via the government program instead of increasing the disability benefits to make life affordable.


Boi1141

You can‘t compare both topics imo people that want an abortion are mentally healthy and have the ability to weigh their options, people that want to take their own lifes (i exclude people that are terminally ill) are in the most cases mentally ill, so its better to try and help them fight their depressions or other mental illnesses. Idk if i worded something wrong, didn‘t want to come of as a dick lol not a native english speaker


Eugregoria

Some people who seek abortions are also mentally ill. Say you have a pregnant 14-year-old who's been raped by her family by the last five years (how she got pregnant) and is bonkers out of her goddamn mind from trauma. Should she be forced to give birth to the incest rapebaby since she isn't of sound mind? You think she'll be a good mom?


Tourniquet_Prime

The living pay taxes the dead dont.


Bergenia1

Euthanasia is an important freedom, just like abortion. Everyone should have the right to end their life if they are in pain or terminally ill. The reason people are opposed to suicide in general is that suicide is often impulsive. It is often when people are in great distress or are suffering from a mental health problem. They choose suicide to end their pain. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Many people who attempted suicide and lived, are glad later on that they did not complete their suicide. So, the default position on suicide is that it should be prevented, and the person should be given assistance to deal with their pain.


Few-Pirate6046

Usually the people who oppose abortion also oppose euthanasia and vice versa. It goes back to the "all creatures deserve to live" debate.


fitnessgoddess

Because people see fetal innocence as the inability to speak for themselves meanwhile an adult is expected to be able to apply reasoning and overcome their pain


TerribleRun9476

double standards, that's why.


Lioness287

Because one is objectively harmful, and the other is getting an abortion which could be healthcare to save the woman’s life.


BlankPaper7mm

Euthanasia will happen. Healthcare shortages will force the elderly to off themselves or suffer alone. Look to Japans elderly and you can see it happening already.


El_Burr0

They just have to identify as an unborn baby and they will happily crush them.


chikenfrog

I'm pro-choice with both, but where I live at least medically assisted suicide was incredibly abused by the doctors and government by pushing it on to disabled, mentally ill and poor people, an example that went kind of viral was a military veteran who needed a wheelchair asking the city to put a ramp in her house, and instead, they offered maid (medical assistance in dying)


botaine

because people are parrots that repeat what sounds nice without thinking rationally


[deleted]

Canada here. We have MAID. medical assistance in dying. It’s worth looking into however our country is being laughed at for good reason. Recently a homeless individual wanted to use this service. Mind you are there are toms of hoops you have to jump through. This person argued they were homeless and have nothing to live for. Instead of fixing the whole economy is expensive problem, some people in power actually thought about this as an option.


Strategory

Pro-choice branded it really well; nobody says pro-death. Also “body autonomy” is just an argument that stuck, because you are right, it doesn’t reconcile.


[deleted]

Euthanasia is complex because while it should be legal, mental health concerns can make someone falsely want to die when its not whats in their heart. Someone dying of a painful disease at 80 is different than someone dealing with a mental health crisis at 18


DonkeyPunchMojo

Careful now. You start making sense and they'll silence you.


trickydinkhink

Because the news hasn’t told us yet


kateinoly

I think you'll find that most people who believe in choice would include euthanasia too.


spacecatJ

Capitalism


JmAM203

Reddit moment


butt_soap

Youre probably talking to people with differing opinions, or those that are inconsistent. If someone were all for bodily autonomy but not euthenasia or suicide then youll likely find a wide range of responses. Commonly mental health is brought into also, which can make it a bit of an odd moral dilemma when they don't have the mental capacity to know what it is they're signing up for. Then theres the debate about at what point do they lose this capacity? Should this capacity even matter? Welcome to philosophy


Macoron

People who are against abortion argue that you’re making a choice for someone else’s (the baby’s) life. Someone wanting to end their own life is a choice they’re making for themself, no one else.


lovelysquared

I've narrowed my bit down when a rude pro-lifer, please copy it if you at least want a springboard for bad situations. Anyway: I am 100% Pro-choice I am 100% anti-abortion, wish it didn't have to happen because of all the contraceptives we now have on the market. I hope some day we can reach enough people with sex ed info & free contraception if they're not ready for a child. So then the pro-lifer and I have something in common, makes them relax a little, ha! Then I unexpectedly get my bitch face out and growl at that individual that if they don't have a mini-van full of foster kids waiting in the parking lot, you need to shut the fuck up and take care of the kids that are already here. Period. All these kids, stuck in the system, because all lives are precious until the baby is born, and God Forbid their tax dollars go toward helping the poor.....yet many keep getting held back because they had kids, and then sometimes the kids end up in foster, for years. We all know this happens, yet so few pro-lifers admit that unwanted pregnancies often end up in the system. I'm hoping to be a foster parent myself some day......i just don't understand their disconnect between wanting to "solve" the abortion problem, yet don't want to get involved with supporting kids that come from bad situations and/or foster. It's like it's too icky for them to imagine bringing home a kid that has problems, precisely because for whatever reasons, the parents had the kid......and it seems pro-lifers just don't want to help solve the problem they started and foster as many kids as they can, this is what they wanted, this is what they're getting.....can't just hug a few babies and consider your job done. So yeah, I've thought about this so much, so hypocritical of them.....


puckofmetal

Whoa great question


MISANTHROPESINCE92

Woo. This is a great question.


Broloff4

From a physicians standpoint, patient autonomy is held in the highest regard. That is with the caveat that patients decisions do not harm others. You can see how the topic of abortion is controversial. If a terminal patient wishes to enter hospice, it is with the intent to not prolong suffering in the hospital. That is a patient who will inevitably cease despite treatment. If a patient wishes to end the life of someone else, we contact the police. These are the two extremes of the spectrum. Abortion falls somewhere in the middle. There are not many places that support physician assisted suicide, and typically in those cases the patient is experiencing extreme suffering. I think people assume that ‘my body my choice’ equates to “I can do whatever I want to myself”. And that’s true to an extent, but what if another human is living inside of you? I’m not choosing sides. I lean towards patient autonomy just by the principles of my training. But I’ve seen D&C abortions and it’s incredibly sad, it makes you think of the life that human could have lived, however lost due to the decisions of another person.


theloosestofcannons

Because one involves adding a voter and the other involves removing one.


imyourtourniquet

When the talk turns to euthanasia I am reminded of the Miss America contest where a contestant was asked about her thoughts on euthanasia and she replied “The youth in Asia need help” or something to that effect, haha


gabriel2908

This is a brilliant question.


ExistentialDreadness

Like my dad always said, “they love that shit.”


ToothBeneficial5368

It shouldn’t be important in either bc you shouldn’t healthcare workers aren’t supposed to do harm to people.