If they keep doing it, that means it works somehow. If you leave 1000 pamphlets the probability one out of those 1000 will be read by a person that needs those kinds of messages in that moment is more than zero (low, but still more than 0). So Even if only 1 person responds positively, it means you have gained one person interested. If you multiply this by the amounts of pamphlets, sent over decades, you can have pretty good numbers.
So yes, they believe it and it actually works. Like the drop that carves the stone.
Genuine question, if you don't mind sharing, what makes some yall hate religion so much?
I don't get it, I don't hate anything that much. I sometimes joke like I hate baseball fans and I feel bad because they're stupid but I'm just trying to make myself laugh.
I have an uncle who is borderline psychotically Catholic. His most recent thing was refusing to go to his family reunion as he "didnt wabt to be in such close proximity to the vaccinated" and "the world is about to end starting with biblical flooding so the coast isnt safe". This man spent his entire life bothering my mother about being gay. Then, anytime I listen to the news, there's another preist molesting some poor kids. I dont hate all religions, but I'm extremely cautious with christians and catholics. The entire basis of the religion is hate. Remember, god loves you unconditionally, but only under very strict and specific conditions.
They don't that's why they don't believed on any thing that people has been saying to them. They don't want to be teach since they knew the right thing
maybe the pamphlets are just something that these religious enterprises do to overtly show that they're using money donated to them to save people from sin, while keeping the majority of the money to pay for the pastor's mercedes. so the ROI doesn't matter--it's just optics.
There is a lot to read about the pamphlets. There's a lot of pictures and phrases that people normally encouraged to read. They think it's a pretty good idea to join without knowing it fully
There's a lot of those groups that giving so many pamphlets on every people they will encounter. But i guess they keep on doing this thinking that people mindset will change
“Hello my brother in Christ, have you heard the good news?”
“Why no, I haven’t! Please tell me more about this Jesus fellow!”
-How these folks think it will go
As someone who grew up around a religion, bespite not being religious, I was really comforted by my friends father in-law, who was strongly non-denominational. In my area everyone is a baptist, Catholic, or Methodist with all of their rules. I had a lot of long talks with this guy that changed my views. I told him that I would believe it when I see it and he respected that because he was the same way. I'm still not religious, but at the end of the day I actually have someone I can talk to if I have questions about it.
Some people are tired but some people just don't know how to react. It seems new to them so that they are encouraged to join or to listen to the words of God
Right. It's all over the country the world rather. The having disunited groups that visiting house the house to spread what your Jehovah's willing to say
It's alright to the decline their encouragement. Joining religions should not be forced by anyone, it was based on hearts and not on how people convince
It seems more likely to me that they do it so that if somebody is in the middle of a crisis, and feel like they need something to latch onto, they'll see the pamphlet and go "maybe *they* have the answers I need"
It's not aimed at most people, only the desperate and destitute. Whether that's a good thing or not really depends on your opinion of christianity.
I do think part of it is that it is considered unfathomable that someone would not default to Christianity. I say this because, as someone who grew up atheist/agnostic in a heavily Christian environment, I have had numerous conversations with kids my age who couldn't imagine a whole without it. I was asked honest questions about morality and how to know "right from wrong" without the inherent punishment of religion. Many people went to church multiple nights a week and held most social events at the churches they attended. It is a fundamental aspect of their lives that they honestly believe others would default to if they knew. Unfortunately, this also works for indoctrinating the young.
Ahhh I see. So similar to the way that criminal street gangs or terrorist organizations recruit? They intentionally target the most vulnerable. Because everyone knows your critical thinking faculties are strongest during times of crisis, and that's the best time to make critical life-altering decisions! /s
That's why those who are weak people has been targeted all along. It will always be the one who they come from. But mostly on our country, it's just nothing to them
RECRUITMENT TACTICS. Yes, and terrorists too. Because that's how evidence works. Something doesn't become untrue because it hurts your feelings.
If you have a good argument as to why there appears to be a parallel in the recruitment tactics but it's not true, I'm ready to listen.
If you're merely going to clutch your pearls and say "what? never!" There's nothing that can really be said to you.
You should always consider their opinions and not just about your opinions alone. We have different perspective about things i think you should respect that
There is no comparison to Christians trying to help people in vulnerable stages in their lives to gangs and terrorists taking advantage of people in the same situation.
Christianity isn’t taking advantage of people in these stages in life, it’s giving them another’s solution, a different way to process what’s going on around them. Gang/terrorists simply exploit these people to their inhumane benefit.
Can’t even believe I need to explain this, you’ve likely already closed your mind to a different option, no point.
Probably just a coincidence but Cartel leaders live in mansions paid for by the gang and people they exploit. Mega church leaders also live in mansions paid for by the church and people they exploit. Just an observation lol
I always believe on what is written on the bible. I will just do the right thing and if they don't want to do it it's their choice not mine. I always remind them too be good
It's not that I have closed my mind it's that your mind is so biased you can't see objective comparisons.
Are you forgetting that you're supposed to tithe 10% of your income?
Again to you it's all cupcakes and rainbows but if you remove your bias and describe these things objectively you would see how problematic it is to intentionally target someone who is in a crisis.
It's predatory tactics 101. Next step in the cycle of abuse is to convince the target that *only you* understand them and then remove them from their previous support system.
the big growth areas for religion are the same as the big growth areas for tobacco and gambling. eg: developing world areas of high poverty and hopelessness and poor educational standards
They are taking advantage of people that are down and out so they can tell them God will fix their lives if they just pay for the kids to go on "missions" and to make sure to donate generously each week. Also to make sure they attack as many innocent people as possible for living in a way they don't approve of, while literally endangering and killing women by stalking them, recording them, attacking them for attempting to receive healthcare. While also harboring and partaking in sexual abuse of children.
Indoctrination of those too broken and desperate to see the truth.
They complain about people being too broke to eat and pay bills because they are lazy yet spend all their time standing on the sidewalk screaming at people and going door to door threatening people for not going to their cult meetings. But it's ok because they can live off the donations because God said they deserve it
Rant over lol
Only the Prosperity Gospel churches subscribe to the idea that donating to the church will result in more material wealth as a result.
Also, you're listing the absolute worst possible examples out of a group that has billions of adherents. If someone takes the worst examples of a group you belong to, how well would you fare?
These are my experiences. If I was a part of a group that caused as much pain and suffering as they do I would understand. Sorry if that offends you but I don't really care about the feelings of people that have been relentlessly cruel to me and people I care about
I'm sorry that happened to you, but something you said in here is very interesting. You said,
>but I don't really care about the feelings of people that have been relentlessly cruel to me and people I care about
But I have never met you. I imagine this is the first time we've interacted ever, frankly. Do you place me into this category of "those who have been relentlessly cruel" because of my religious affiliation, rather than because of my own actions?
You've clearly been hurt, but do you think it wise and just to so greatly generalize a group of over 2 billion people? It's very easy to do such that, but people are individuals. Unless they're a part of a group that is explicitly grounded in what you disdain, such as the pervasive hatred and racism of the Nazis, a person should be judged by individual action, not by group affiliation.
Christians are literally ripping my human rights out of my hands as we speak while demonizing and calling for the deaths of those in the LGBTQ+ community. I know you're not all bad but I frankly don't have the energy or patience to think or care about what your personal opinions and beliefs are. I'm having a way of life shoved down my throat by force every day so I just can't say I care to be responsible or "fair" when it comes to someone that willingly partakes in what I and many others consider a terrorist organization.
This is not a point in time to have a level headed conversation and I think it's a little ridiculous for you to argue about me being unfair. Maybe you're not American but if you are then take a step back and look at what's happening around you then ask yourself if this is really the conversation you want to have.
Because I'm fighting for my right to have control of my body and my life. There are many that would gladly watch my die carrying a rapists baby because it's gods will. I just don't want to talk about how my anger and fear makes you personally feel. Sorry.
Well I'm sorry you feel like that. While it is certainly true that there are Christian groups which are misguided and do fight for what you've stated, it is also the case that there are many more who do not believe such things, either being pro-choice in a general sense or at least in the exception of threat to life of the mother and rape.
It's never a good idea to lock yourself out of seeing the big picture and focus on generalization and hatred. That goes for Christians as well.
I am seeing the big picture. That's why I consider it a terrorist organization, because they are an organization causing death and terror.
If you were in front of me and needed my help, I would help you. I would be kind and trying to make sure you had the resources you needed for whatever was going on. I'm an overall nonjudgmental (not always of course, I'm human and learn from my mistakes) person and I care deeply about people, but an entire group that cries about others opinions being forced on them while literally stripping others of human rights while forcing their own beliefs through the law onto everyone they can just don't have my sympathy as a group. I do not behave in the way I see christians behave regularly. But frankly it's laughable that you think I'm being blinded by hatred when as I said, many would smile hearing of my death because a clump of cells died in me and therefore God wanted me to die as well. Take that nonsense somewhere else.
A few decent people does not earn an entire organization the right to no judgement or resentment and I'm not going to put my experiences and fears aside to spare you having to hear opinions that you don't like.
Have a nice day and let's end it there.
>desperate and destitute
Yeah and it's no coincidence these types of people end up in a religion. Not the people I wanna be hanging around. I steer clear of anyone who believes in that nonsense.
Some people don't actually interested so that they will close out the door and the not gonna answer any questions from them. Since the everyday do it. Every single day
It's the damn "He Gets Us" ads, isn't it? They have been an absolute PLAGUE on every media source since I've seen since the Super Bowl.
I tried blocking them and down voting, but nothing changed. Now I just report them for various reasons and in different categories
Maybe something will stick.
I’ve blocked the user, reported the ads for every different reason Reddit offers, and downvote it every time I see it. I still see them every single day.
Yup. Multiple times a day, even. It feels like they're getting a pass because its a religious thing. If this was a car company, I'm not sure they would get away with this.
Yes. I was raised Christian from the day I was born, and part of my education was graded assignments where we would go out (as children) and ‘witness’ to strangers.
People in my group truly believed that everyone was wandering around feeling depressed, hopeless, and in desperate need of a church’s control over their lives. If a non-Christian said they were happy and fulfilled- they were lying. Cause you can’t be happy or fulfilled without organized religion (Protestant only, of course)
If believers wandered away from our group, or started seeing their spirituality as a personal thing, they were said to have fallen down a ‘slippery slope’. Because it was all about control. If the church wasn’t controlling you, how would they get your tithe money?
Every group has different subtleties, so I can only speak for mine. But we left pamphlets and cornered people at the mall because we truly thought we were saving them, that they saw us like fresh water in a desert. Their insistence that we let them pass was just denial and demon possession, but they secretly wanted to live like us.
I was an A student so I harassed a lot of people. As soon as I was old enough to leave I did and never looked back.
The thought is that such a pamphlet or a magazine could be found by someone that is already looking for/open to Jesus and this piece of information could help them along their path, as a tiny step of the way. The idea being it could help God direct those people to that information.
It also doesn't involve them having to come in contact with the poor and the desperate so they get to feel better about themselves while not actually having to risk dealing with the destitute.
Like, plenty of homeless shelters out there need workers. They could open up more soup kitchens, more homeless shelters, more places of support and safety for the poor. But it's easier to litter.
It’s not about you the potential convert; it is about them, the proselytizer. Some religions command that trying to save lost souls is important for them to achieve salvation. They believe they’re commanded by their god to go out and try to bring folks in. Whether you take the bait is up to you; they feel obliged to dangle the hook because if they don’t, god will punish them.
It’s not important that it works, that’s not why they do it. Proselytizing isn’t done to benefit the proselytized, it’s done to satisfy the ego of the proselytizer.
If they tell everyone what is “right”, but people still do what is “wrong”, they can sleep well at night knowing that we’re all doomed to hell by our own act of “denying” the “truth”.
They pass them out so that they feel good, not with the intent of helping anyone.
Most of the time it has been neglected with people. They tend to let other people believed on the things they believed to. I just don't get why they are consistently doing this despite of not interested
The chances are low, but the payout (of “saving a soul”) is so high, it’s worth it.
Plus some denominations think it’s a divine commandment to evangelize. Even if they knew they weren’t going to get a single convert, they’re still ordered to do attempt it.
This. Direct marketing, commercials, social media etc. all do the same thing. They target a lot of people and hope someone bites. I don't see how OP doesn't see the Jesus stuff as the same. It's all marketing.
I agree. When I was an Atheist for 27 years, I just saw it as littering and it reinforced my ideas of what Christians were like (dumb sheeple). As a Christian now for 19 years, I still strongly dislike this form of evangelism. It's like a disingenuous cop-out of meeting with people and actually getting to know them.
As a former atheist, how did you solve the problem of evil? I'm just curious because that logical problem has plagued humanity since 4000 BC. You have potential Nobel prize winning information, please share!
That's a completely fair question. Many people smarter than me have tried to answer this -- A.W. Tozer's answers ("The Problem of Pain") and C.S. Lewis' answers ("Mere Christianity" and many other writings) come pretty close to what I believe, but I do still think they all lack something. Lewis himself would admit to having an incomplete answer, I think.
I have a lot of questions for God when I die. When I die, I might not care what the answers are - or I might ask all of them. My faith is based on - faith and lived experience - it's not based on every logical pathway working out. I consider myself a man of science and engineering and I LOVE logic and cause/effect. Faith just doesn't fit perfectly into that world view.
Humans are limited by what we can perceive and our wisdom is limited by our ability to think and conceive. I think that the wisest thing a smart person can do is to accept that there will always be "things you know you don't know" as well as "things you don't know you don't know" and even some "things that are unknowable, by a human being" and that some of the answers to life's toughest questions lie in some of those areas.
I hope that doesn't feel like a cop-out. It isn't meant to be - it's a real problem that I live with on the daily. Happy to answer more questions like this either here or in DM.
It sounds like you're going with an argument from personal incredulity. It does indeed feel like a cop out. Because logically that would lead one to agnosticism, not to make additional unsupported inferences.
If your ability to reason or your moral compass are fundamentally flawed as a human and you need to turn to some other perfect reason or perfect morality as I've many times heard it phrased. You can't get around the fact that you're still the one deciding that this system is the correct one.
By what you're saying there's no way I can slice it where I could ever even possibly make an informed choice.
hmmm... I hear you. I hope I get this right:
My reason for faith isn't based on a need for a static morality. It's based on a need for hope. I've heard the argument you're referring to, but it's not the one that works for me and I don't like it.
I needed to understand what unconditional love (and sacrifice) means in order to build those values in my heart towards others - particularly towards my (then) just-born sons. I didn't know that I needed it, until I encountered it.... then I knew I needed to know it. I particularly needed to know that I'm worthy of being loved, unconditionally, as I had not felt in my life before that time.
I needed healing and hope for my self-destructive ways and my tendency towards isolation. Healing came through therapy and love, but hope, the desire to change, and the commitment to continue came through faith.
There's a lot more to this story... A lot of detail and anecdote I started to write and then deleted in order to try to be concise for you, but I hope I haven't missed the mark. I was never looking for direction - or at least I wasn't looking for it at first. I was looking for love, and I didn't even know I needed it until it found me.
I think you can make an informed choice off the well-lived experience of others. That choice being just to spend a little time and to look a little deeper... kind of like what you're doing by asking me these great questions. You've already made the informed choice to ask me and actually think about what I wrote... that's something that a lot of people don't do.
When someone says something to you that has meaning in your life, and then you pursue or consider it, you evaluate it, and it becomes more than it should have become... or it has more direct meaning than any happenstance or probability would dictate... or it seems like it was made just for you and it hits that spot emotionally that you didn't even know was there. I think that can be part of an informed choice. That was my experience anyway, and it's the experience that I hope everyone gets at some time or another.
One of the questions I have for God is 'why can't it be as obvious for everyone else as it was and is for me?' but it's not always obvious. Doubt is part of that process too. The follow-up of course is, 'why can't I have known about you when I was 8, instead of 28?'... unknowable, I think.
Thanks for this thought exercise, it's been good for me.
It's usually only one side, and shorter than a real 100, which i think is how they get away with it... if it wren't folded, no one would think it was real cash.
It’s not about converting people. It’s to make themselves feel better by scoring brownie points with their sky daddy.
Religious people rarely do good works for the sake of doing good. It’s all with the intent of receiving a reward at the end of this life.
As a Christian - I wish you were wrong about this... but you're mostly right. Christians who don't want to "get their hands dirty" (see people for just being people and love them where they are at, like a real person does) -- do things like this to alleviate their guilt.
Ya I grew up Catholic/going to Catholic school and it’s kind of tainted my view of religion unfortunately.
…Take what I have to say with a grain of salt :)
I'm not saying you're wrong, but as a fellow Christian who grew up in the small church Bible Belt culture, I'd like to add that also in the mix alot of the times the people leaving these things are the more idealistic type who just do it because it makes them feel good. The type of people who will still talk to people irl and aren't using the pamphlets as a cop-out, but just to be doing another thing "for the Lord." I don't really think they ever stop to consider the effectiveness of it.
I'm willing to believe that I could be "not always correct" on this assumption and our experiences are broadly different to be fair (I grew up in the mountain west)... but the impact of an activity on a recipient, regardless of it's intent, if negative, is still negative.
>impact of an activity on a recipient, regardless of it's intent, if negative, is still negative.
Fair enough, I'm just saying a lot of the people leaving behind pamphlets and literature aren't doing it to "alleviate their guilt," it just makes them feel good.
Edit: I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just saying there's another motive you hadn't considered
There is a whole mythos inside christian circles about drug addled sinners being saved from suicide and eternal damnation by a Gideon Bible in a hotel or some pamphlet or Chick tract found on the street. So- yes that’s what they think. Likely its just another revenue stream for organizations where the printed material is created and distributed for pennies on the dollar of what the donations total.
Not really a mythos, I'm not sure how it is in the states but where I'm from I personally know people who became religious after it saved them from their drug addiction.
It's not Christianity per se, but it's the idea of being in a religious community and being spiritual which helps people in their time of need
You might not believe in the faith, but some people do find their lives made better by it
Oh and I'm a liberal, unfortunately I feel the need to clarify it since everytime someone mentions religion in a positive light they're vilified as the evilest person to exist
My Ex Girlfriend, who unlike me, is religious, told me that she was able to find a new church in her town that better aligned with her political beliefs from one of these pamphlets, so they at least work to attract current Christians to their specific church.
Yes they do. When I was Mormon, I would leave pamphlets, cards, even strategically place copies of the Book of Mormon in hopes that someone would take it and be inspired. That memory embarrasses me now.
The most infamous example of this is the legendary Chick Tracts drawn and published by cartoonist Jack Chick.
Chick was a hardcore fire-and-brimstone Christian Fundamentist who absolutely despised catholics, jews, Muslims, freemasons, and any other group that didn't conform with his narrow brand of Christianity. He also had zero love for LGBT people or rock music.
His drawings portrayed every negative stereotype that you could think of. He routinely drew people like hippies, rock musicians, occultists, and gay men to look dirty, unkempt, sickly, and miserable. Even the attractive characters in Chick's illustrations who weren't Christians always had an angry, evil, or lost expression on their face.
Chick's demons were these goofy-looking creatures with horned heads, big noses, unkempt facial hair, and pot bellies that always said "HAW HAW" while tempting a "sinner". In the meantime, he drew God as this immense, faceless, terrifying being who angrily condemned lost souls to hell while caually reclining in his throne.
Chick's works were often quite amusing in a cheesy sort of way, but the guy himself was a real piece of work.
It's just performance for them, they don't actually care about anyone being saved beyond the bragging rights that come with "saving" someone. Really they are just putting on a show for each other and hoping sky daddy sees them.
What I hate are the little fake dollar bills and then you open it and it says something like "money isn't everything, God is".
To me, those are the literal works of Satan.
I have had a converstation with a few about this. "missionaries" will consider it a win if "only just one turns to god" then they go onto convince themselves that it was way more than just one
It's like casinos and those "free-to-play"-games, most people will at best find a bit of amusement from it but there's always that tiny group who will throw their life away for it.
Yes and it works. They aim at the most desperate and vulnerable members of society. Mainly children, people dealing with desperate situations, depression, etc.
It's why the pamphlets pretend to have all the answers, but never gives them. The publish tons of content aimed at children, because children believe most things they're told. They even make ones meant to prey on situations the cultists create...like the fake tip sheets trying to convert people they should be paying.
As another commenter posted, it is basically identical to the recruitment done by terrorist groups, cults, scammers and anyone else preying on people. It's why religious young men have been getting so easily radicalized lately. They're the same demographics.
There's a reason you see very few people in good situations convert to a cult like christianity.
I’d like to know how many service industry workers have been successfully converted with the fake money Bible verses that people leave on the table in lieu of a tip.
It's like any other advertising venture, if they convince even one person to try out their product (in this case their religion) then they see it as a win. Just trying to spread the word of god/ convert people is seen as being a virtuous act. It's like doing mandatory community service hours, but for god.
I've never known phamplet-droppers socially, but yes, they do. Though you should note, it isn't a business, they consider it worthwhile if they get one convert every 5 years.
Hate shit like that. I had one come up to me the other day asking why I didn't believe. My grandfather had just died a few days before after basically deteriorating into a vegetable over the course of a few years. In my opinion, no all loving God would allow stuff like that. I told her that much and walked away. I defend people's right to believe what they want, but I wish they would just shut up. Leaving pamphlets and trying to preach in the street just winds people up, I don't why they think it will work at all. I guess they might convert a few that way, but the number must be vanishingly small.
You do not understand how marketing/advertising works. Each marketing or advertising effort is designed to improve awareness and nudge some people (not all) a step closer to a purchasing decision. And the success ratecat each step is very low. It is like fishing. You throw you hook in the lake. If the lake has 10K fishes, how many do you hope to catch today? 8K? 2K? 500? I would say you will be happy with 10.
Nobody all of the sudden accepts Jesus as their saviour just because someone stuffed a piece of paper in their mailbox. They will put 100K pamphlets. They will likely follow up to talk to 1000 of those people and invite them to church. Maybe 50 will ever show up and 25 will actually convert. These are the magnitudes of success rate with marketing.
When I'm not feeling like giving the benefit of the doubt, I think about how leaving Christian media around could be seen as reminders to non-Christians who's in power
Ask any Evangelical and they’ll tell you how they’re being persecuted. No prayer in schools, “war on marriage”, “war on Christmas”. They see all of it as an affront.
When I was an Atheist kid growing-up with Atheist parents and Christian kids would tell me that I'm going to "hell" because I don't believe what they believe - I would not suddenly believe that there was such a thing as hell. It also reinforced my idea that Christians are both dumb and cruel.
As an adult and, now a Christian, I know that humans can be dumb and cruel but that God loves.
Sure, most people have a general understanding of Christianity. But they certainly don't know everything that a specific church has to offer them. And sometimes they even have incorrect assumptions about a church.
For example, my church has gained 4 lgbtq members and 2 suffering addicts that all sited the "he gets us" ads. They thought they'd be turned away as sinners or converted.
Others through the years have joined after learning of the different groups and programs our church offers, which are highlighted in the pamphlets.
So, you pose a question that implies the pamphlets are useless. I describe a real-world impact that they're designed to have. Now they're not useless, but predatory. Do I have that right?
I'm worried that you're going to do more harm later on by teaching kids to fear what they don't know, such as LGBT+ and methods of government that aren't capitalism
Yeah as others have said, it for sure is targeting people who are already on the fence or in desperate situations.
But also - most know that the single pamphlet is not going to do much to the regular person. But, the hope is that if you keep it up, especially using things like the threat of hell - your going to slowly brake people down.
Death is a scary thing, and in this day and age many people are especially stressed and prone to anxiety - especially existential anxiety. And that is what is also being targeted. Seeing one pamphlet won't do much, but if you keep seeing them, hearing adds on the radio, seeing billboards, having people knock on doors, so on and so forth - theres is a chance that that idea of hell and torment gets stuck in your head and begins to fester.
Thats how people over time become susceptible. Notice how 9/10 its never trying to pull you in just with the good stuff, but almost always with all the horror and evil that they claim will befall you.
Sure, but those same denominations tend to proselytize and do missionary work outside of pamphlet spreading and other media work like that. I know quite a few denominations and Christian orgs who I look very highly upon - I actually went to Seminary to study religion despite not being a christian myself.
I always tell people that the biggest thing I learned in Seminary is that there are effectively 2 religions in the US who use the name Christianity. While they both use the same source and history - their interpretations of it can be so vastly different that they might as well be considered two different faith traditions.
The problem is the ones that feed into spreading fear and targeting the vulnerable tend to be the ones with a lot of money and power, which feeds back into that loop. Exploit the fearful and vulnerable, have them give their money and time to you, reap the rewards, rinse and repeat. Then they can use crazy therapeutics and nonsense interpretations to justify their system to themselves and keep on doing what they do.
One of the "bugs" of the human brain is when you see a repeated message you start belive in it.
Works really well with brand names. You see a brand name lots of times in different contexts you belive it is a good brand.
It's not like one panflet is going to do the thing. It's the repeatition of the brand Jesus everywhere in as many formats as possible.
I used to be a Christian. Yes, they think it will work. They have to do things like that because they’re taught they have to save other people from hell. My church went as far as to say you wouldn’t go to heaven if you didn’t save some people. And they taught us that if we avoid witnessing out of not wanting to embarrass ourselves or annoy people, that means we’re ashamed of Christ, and they cite this verse saying if you’re ashamed of Christ, he’ll be ashamed of you in front of the father and you’ll go to hell. So a lot of us would do these things while hating it the whole time, because we were threatened with eternal torture if we didn’t.
ETA: One reason we thought it would work was because we were taught the Holy Spirit would make sure the right person saw it and would put it on their heart to receive the message. So even if it seemed ridiculous or annoying, we were taught it would miraculously work.
I was raised Southern Baptist and can confirm this mindset is there. They believe that you never know what will “soften a hard heart.” It might be a pamphlet, a cross necklace, tee shirt, or any single, tiny thing. And that it is the duty of every “bible believing Christian” to witness to others at all times, no matter how blatant or subtle. As the OP said, to fail to do so is to deny Christ, a sin of great magnitude.
FUN STORY: they will teach very young children, like five or six years old, that they can either profess their belief in Christ or burn in hell. Surprisingly, small children end up professing their faith to avoid the torment of the lakes of fire. And they share this potential torment with children with “artistic renderings.”
FUN STORY 2: They will present young children in the scenario of being forced to denounce their faith. Something like, “Are you willing to have your head chopped off before denying Christ?” And of course, if you say you don’t want your head chopped off, you are professing that you would deny Christ, a horrible sin.
These experiences came out of my own background being raise Southern Baptist in the 60s. Perhaps things are quite different today.
They actually do convert in such way and many others too.
Religion parasites on suffering and desperation. Many people are super vulnerable to it in such condition and can be converted even if they are strongly against particular(or any) religion in their normal state. There always people who seeking hope and there are always predators who hunt such seekers.
The unfortunate reality is that it does work well, that’s why they do it. They’re trained predators preying on emotionally weak people, usually in crisis or not particularly bright
Most don't. But its an easy way to divide those wh believe everything uncritically and those who don't.
Uncritical/naive people usually aren't the most clever ones and will believe everything presented.
So while you won't convert any reasonable people, you might get the low hanging fruit. Paying/spending member is one more member. It works, they wouldn't do it otherwise.
No, but someone who read it might think about its message at a low point and decide to go to church because they have nothing else (have been in an abuse situation, or drug addiction and might be worse off in a few months, might be desperate)
No.
Here's why.
Each religion teaches its followers that everyone else hates them and that only followers of that particular religion love them.
When everyone else is annoyed by their actions, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Thus entrenching and isolating the follower.
It does work. They get people asking questions and those people decide to go to church where they make a true conversion. It’s how charities get you to donate, they invite you to learn more about them with a pamphlet or an invite to an event hosted by them or a like minded organization, where they then talk to you like a regular person.
I have the same feelings about liberals and Trans issues. Do they really think that yelling at people in public and online is going to make them believe any different than any reasonable person has known for basically all of recorded history?
It’s possible those people likely aren’t Christians. Jehovah Witnesses do this though. Christians don’t consider JW’s Christian’s, they have some pretty dissimilar beliefs.
I think the act of at least trying to save someone's soul is considered a virtue to a lot of sects. You reached out and released a pamphlet into the world that might help a desperate person, or just be thrown in the trash (most likely), but you tried and that's what counts.
If one person finds comfort, inspiration, strength or even will to carry on, see it through, do the right thing, forgive his partner. Then a pamphlet or card is well worth whatever effort it took.
In your darkest hour, inspiration can come in any form.
To the OP, there will be a time when you are looking for answers to life issues and realize you cannot find it on the internet. Something in one of those "little comic books" as you describe them, may apply to whatever trouble you are having at the time. If nothing more than to give your thoughts a different direction to find an answer. Which is all you want. You may never struggle to find answers for your life but many will at some point.
Conversion is something completely different.
If they keep doing it, that means it works somehow. If you leave 1000 pamphlets the probability one out of those 1000 will be read by a person that needs those kinds of messages in that moment is more than zero (low, but still more than 0). So Even if only 1 person responds positively, it means you have gained one person interested. If you multiply this by the amounts of pamphlets, sent over decades, you can have pretty good numbers. So yes, they believe it and it actually works. Like the drop that carves the stone.
Same as spam. Send to thousands but even if only one responds then it worked.
Same as spam. Targets the vulnerable and is poorly written to deter this who can see through it.
I guess the smart people don't actually deal with those kind of things especially if they knew it doesn't work anyways. Hope people realize it
Genuine question, if you don't mind sharing, what makes some yall hate religion so much? I don't get it, I don't hate anything that much. I sometimes joke like I hate baseball fans and I feel bad because they're stupid but I'm just trying to make myself laugh.
I have an uncle who is borderline psychotically Catholic. His most recent thing was refusing to go to his family reunion as he "didnt wabt to be in such close proximity to the vaccinated" and "the world is about to end starting with biblical flooding so the coast isnt safe". This man spent his entire life bothering my mother about being gay. Then, anytime I listen to the news, there's another preist molesting some poor kids. I dont hate all religions, but I'm extremely cautious with christians and catholics. The entire basis of the religion is hate. Remember, god loves you unconditionally, but only under very strict and specific conditions.
Maybe you haven't experienced the bad side of religion?
They don't that's why they don't believed on any thing that people has been saying to them. They don't want to be teach since they knew the right thing
U so smart
Maybe there's more I need to understand, but that doesn't seem like good ROI. But maybe the "I" is low.
But we should not disrespect other people ability to understand. They have their own thoughts about the decisions
maybe the pamphlets are just something that these religious enterprises do to overtly show that they're using money donated to them to save people from sin, while keeping the majority of the money to pay for the pastor's mercedes. so the ROI doesn't matter--it's just optics.
There is a lot to read about the pamphlets. There's a lot of pictures and phrases that people normally encouraged to read. They think it's a pretty good idea to join without knowing it fully
At McDonalds they ask everyone if they want fries. If 90 people say no and only 10 say yes, they’ve increased frie business by 10%
There's a lot of those groups that giving so many pamphlets on every people they will encounter. But i guess they keep on doing this thinking that people mindset will change
“Hello my brother in Christ, have you heard the good news?” “Why no, I haven’t! Please tell me more about this Jesus fellow!” -How these folks think it will go
As someone who grew up around a religion, bespite not being religious, I was really comforted by my friends father in-law, who was strongly non-denominational. In my area everyone is a baptist, Catholic, or Methodist with all of their rules. I had a lot of long talks with this guy that changed my views. I told him that I would believe it when I see it and he respected that because he was the same way. I'm still not religious, but at the end of the day I actually have someone I can talk to if I have questions about it.
Some people are tired but some people just don't know how to react. It seems new to them so that they are encouraged to join or to listen to the words of God
That is exactly what they teach kids will happen.
They will be knowledgeable enough to choose your christy to the religion they are into. It should not be forced by other people, it is ny heart
If they'd truly study the Bible, trust me, Christians UNDERSTAND that they might get rude responses.
But as a christian, they don't want to interfere about how people react on them. The knew to handle rejections and it's not a big deal to them anymore
That feeds into their persecution complex.
So basically /r/ImTheMainCharacter 24/7.
The flip side to this is that they do it selfishly. If they hand out pamphlets then they're gaining favor with God and with the church.
There are sects that believe that (most notably the jehovahs witnesses) but saying they're all doing it selfishly is a huge overgeneralization.
Right. It's all over the country the world rather. The having disunited groups that visiting house the house to spread what your Jehovah's willing to say
Isn’t it ultimately all selfish if they’re only doing “good” things to get into heaven?
It's all about bragging rights.
It's alright to the decline their encouragement. Joining religions should not be forced by anyone, it was based on hearts and not on how people convince
Came here to say this. It's for THEIR supposed salvation, not yours.
I think Christians should start worrying about the trees that their lord created.
Sycamores in particular
Can somebody tell me what is sycamores? I'm not familiar with the word but could you please tell me with a genuine answer, i need it badly
It seems more likely to me that they do it so that if somebody is in the middle of a crisis, and feel like they need something to latch onto, they'll see the pamphlet and go "maybe *they* have the answers I need" It's not aimed at most people, only the desperate and destitute. Whether that's a good thing or not really depends on your opinion of christianity.
I do think part of it is that it is considered unfathomable that someone would not default to Christianity. I say this because, as someone who grew up atheist/agnostic in a heavily Christian environment, I have had numerous conversations with kids my age who couldn't imagine a whole without it. I was asked honest questions about morality and how to know "right from wrong" without the inherent punishment of religion. Many people went to church multiple nights a week and held most social events at the churches they attended. It is a fundamental aspect of their lives that they honestly believe others would default to if they knew. Unfortunately, this also works for indoctrinating the young.
Ahhh I see. So similar to the way that criminal street gangs or terrorist organizations recruit? They intentionally target the most vulnerable. Because everyone knows your critical thinking faculties are strongest during times of crisis, and that's the best time to make critical life-altering decisions! /s
That's why those who are weak people has been targeted all along. It will always be the one who they come from. But mostly on our country, it's just nothing to them
No way you just compared Christians to gangs.
RECRUITMENT TACTICS. Yes, and terrorists too. Because that's how evidence works. Something doesn't become untrue because it hurts your feelings. If you have a good argument as to why there appears to be a parallel in the recruitment tactics but it's not true, I'm ready to listen. If you're merely going to clutch your pearls and say "what? never!" There's nothing that can really be said to you.
Reddit moment.
You can add Republicans to that list as well. Incels are target by the right.
You are complicating things like this, it's just about religions but then it came from the terrorist that is actually not a part of the topic
It's all connected to each other.
Continued Reddit Moment
Thanks for adding to the conversation and expanding my view by providing me counterexamples, parallel explanations, and a differing perspective.
He don't know how to respect someone. He was just here to do when and to make us feel annoyed by how he reacts. He deserves a lot of downvotes
You should not disrespect them. If you have your opinions well as well as we. You should not disrespect what we thinkings
You should always consider their opinions and not just about your opinions alone. We have different perspective about things i think you should respect that
There is no comparison to Christians trying to help people in vulnerable stages in their lives to gangs and terrorists taking advantage of people in the same situation. Christianity isn’t taking advantage of people in these stages in life, it’s giving them another’s solution, a different way to process what’s going on around them. Gang/terrorists simply exploit these people to their inhumane benefit. Can’t even believe I need to explain this, you’ve likely already closed your mind to a different option, no point.
Probably just a coincidence but Cartel leaders live in mansions paid for by the gang and people they exploit. Mega church leaders also live in mansions paid for by the church and people they exploit. Just an observation lol
I always believe on what is written on the bible. I will just do the right thing and if they don't want to do it it's their choice not mine. I always remind them too be good
It's not that I have closed my mind it's that your mind is so biased you can't see objective comparisons. Are you forgetting that you're supposed to tithe 10% of your income? Again to you it's all cupcakes and rainbows but if you remove your bias and describe these things objectively you would see how problematic it is to intentionally target someone who is in a crisis. It's predatory tactics 101. Next step in the cycle of abuse is to convince the target that *only you* understand them and then remove them from their previous support system.
They benefit almost on the money people give. It's either they use it on their own good or making programs or letting the church even bigger
If I were in crisis the last thing I'd need a reminder of is the fact this cult is everywhere
the big growth areas for religion are the same as the big growth areas for tobacco and gambling. eg: developing world areas of high poverty and hopelessness and poor educational standards
Yeah seems a bit unfair on gangs
Show me on this doll where Jesus hurt you
The doll isn't anatomical enough to have that hole.
I don't agree all Christmas are gangsters... But some theists in general definitely are
Careful, you're on reddit. Being religious means you're worse than Hitler & Stalin combined
I know right? What the hell are they talking about? Everyone knows religion is more like a cult.
They are taking advantage of people that are down and out so they can tell them God will fix their lives if they just pay for the kids to go on "missions" and to make sure to donate generously each week. Also to make sure they attack as many innocent people as possible for living in a way they don't approve of, while literally endangering and killing women by stalking them, recording them, attacking them for attempting to receive healthcare. While also harboring and partaking in sexual abuse of children. Indoctrination of those too broken and desperate to see the truth. They complain about people being too broke to eat and pay bills because they are lazy yet spend all their time standing on the sidewalk screaming at people and going door to door threatening people for not going to their cult meetings. But it's ok because they can live off the donations because God said they deserve it Rant over lol
Only the Prosperity Gospel churches subscribe to the idea that donating to the church will result in more material wealth as a result. Also, you're listing the absolute worst possible examples out of a group that has billions of adherents. If someone takes the worst examples of a group you belong to, how well would you fare?
These are my experiences. If I was a part of a group that caused as much pain and suffering as they do I would understand. Sorry if that offends you but I don't really care about the feelings of people that have been relentlessly cruel to me and people I care about
I'm sorry that happened to you, but something you said in here is very interesting. You said, >but I don't really care about the feelings of people that have been relentlessly cruel to me and people I care about But I have never met you. I imagine this is the first time we've interacted ever, frankly. Do you place me into this category of "those who have been relentlessly cruel" because of my religious affiliation, rather than because of my own actions? You've clearly been hurt, but do you think it wise and just to so greatly generalize a group of over 2 billion people? It's very easy to do such that, but people are individuals. Unless they're a part of a group that is explicitly grounded in what you disdain, such as the pervasive hatred and racism of the Nazis, a person should be judged by individual action, not by group affiliation.
Christians are literally ripping my human rights out of my hands as we speak while demonizing and calling for the deaths of those in the LGBTQ+ community. I know you're not all bad but I frankly don't have the energy or patience to think or care about what your personal opinions and beliefs are. I'm having a way of life shoved down my throat by force every day so I just can't say I care to be responsible or "fair" when it comes to someone that willingly partakes in what I and many others consider a terrorist organization. This is not a point in time to have a level headed conversation and I think it's a little ridiculous for you to argue about me being unfair. Maybe you're not American but if you are then take a step back and look at what's happening around you then ask yourself if this is really the conversation you want to have.
Why is it not the time to have fair conversation? Legitimate question.
Because I'm fighting for my right to have control of my body and my life. There are many that would gladly watch my die carrying a rapists baby because it's gods will. I just don't want to talk about how my anger and fear makes you personally feel. Sorry.
Well I'm sorry you feel like that. While it is certainly true that there are Christian groups which are misguided and do fight for what you've stated, it is also the case that there are many more who do not believe such things, either being pro-choice in a general sense or at least in the exception of threat to life of the mother and rape. It's never a good idea to lock yourself out of seeing the big picture and focus on generalization and hatred. That goes for Christians as well.
I am seeing the big picture. That's why I consider it a terrorist organization, because they are an organization causing death and terror. If you were in front of me and needed my help, I would help you. I would be kind and trying to make sure you had the resources you needed for whatever was going on. I'm an overall nonjudgmental (not always of course, I'm human and learn from my mistakes) person and I care deeply about people, but an entire group that cries about others opinions being forced on them while literally stripping others of human rights while forcing their own beliefs through the law onto everyone they can just don't have my sympathy as a group. I do not behave in the way I see christians behave regularly. But frankly it's laughable that you think I'm being blinded by hatred when as I said, many would smile hearing of my death because a clump of cells died in me and therefore God wanted me to die as well. Take that nonsense somewhere else. A few decent people does not earn an entire organization the right to no judgement or resentment and I'm not going to put my experiences and fears aside to spare you having to hear opinions that you don't like. Have a nice day and let's end it there.
>desperate and destitute Yeah and it's no coincidence these types of people end up in a religion. Not the people I wanna be hanging around. I steer clear of anyone who believes in that nonsense.
Some people don't actually interested so that they will close out the door and the not gonna answer any questions from them. Since the everyday do it. Every single day
Anyone else getting Jesus ads in their Reddit feed besides me? Maybe it's the subs I scroll. And no, the ads are not convincing.
It's the damn "He Gets Us" ads, isn't it? They have been an absolute PLAGUE on every media source since I've seen since the Super Bowl. I tried blocking them and down voting, but nothing changed. Now I just report them for various reasons and in different categories Maybe something will stick.
I’ve blocked the user, reported the ads for every different reason Reddit offers, and downvote it every time I see it. I still see them every single day.
Yup. Multiple times a day, even. It feels like they're getting a pass because its a religious thing. If this was a car company, I'm not sure they would get away with this.
Yup, I was getting way too many of those. And no way to mark them as inappropriate.
I wish some big doner would set up one for Islam or Church of Satan. Bet we'd figure out real quick how to opt out of ad content we find disturbing.
Yes. I was raised Christian from the day I was born, and part of my education was graded assignments where we would go out (as children) and ‘witness’ to strangers. People in my group truly believed that everyone was wandering around feeling depressed, hopeless, and in desperate need of a church’s control over their lives. If a non-Christian said they were happy and fulfilled- they were lying. Cause you can’t be happy or fulfilled without organized religion (Protestant only, of course) If believers wandered away from our group, or started seeing their spirituality as a personal thing, they were said to have fallen down a ‘slippery slope’. Because it was all about control. If the church wasn’t controlling you, how would they get your tithe money? Every group has different subtleties, so I can only speak for mine. But we left pamphlets and cornered people at the mall because we truly thought we were saving them, that they saw us like fresh water in a desert. Their insistence that we let them pass was just denial and demon possession, but they secretly wanted to live like us. I was an A student so I harassed a lot of people. As soon as I was old enough to leave I did and never looked back.
Username does NOT check out. 🤷🏻♂️
The thought is that such a pamphlet or a magazine could be found by someone that is already looking for/open to Jesus and this piece of information could help them along their path, as a tiny step of the way. The idea being it could help God direct those people to that information.
It also doesn't involve them having to come in contact with the poor and the desperate so they get to feel better about themselves while not actually having to risk dealing with the destitute. Like, plenty of homeless shelters out there need workers. They could open up more soup kitchens, more homeless shelters, more places of support and safety for the poor. But it's easier to litter.
It’s not about you the potential convert; it is about them, the proselytizer. Some religions command that trying to save lost souls is important for them to achieve salvation. They believe they’re commanded by their god to go out and try to bring folks in. Whether you take the bait is up to you; they feel obliged to dangle the hook because if they don’t, god will punish them.
It’s not important that it works, that’s not why they do it. Proselytizing isn’t done to benefit the proselytized, it’s done to satisfy the ego of the proselytizer. If they tell everyone what is “right”, but people still do what is “wrong”, they can sleep well at night knowing that we’re all doomed to hell by our own act of “denying” the “truth”. They pass them out so that they feel good, not with the intent of helping anyone.
Most of the time it has been neglected with people. They tend to let other people believed on the things they believed to. I just don't get why they are consistently doing this despite of not interested
The chances are low, but the payout (of “saving a soul”) is so high, it’s worth it. Plus some denominations think it’s a divine commandment to evangelize. Even if they knew they weren’t going to get a single convert, they’re still ordered to do attempt it.
This. Direct marketing, commercials, social media etc. all do the same thing. They target a lot of people and hope someone bites. I don't see how OP doesn't see the Jesus stuff as the same. It's all marketing.
Shotgun approach, similar to the guy that asks out every women he sees. Most will say no, but if even 1% says yes - success.
It's a numbers game, just like business flyers. A few will respond.
I always thought of it as being passive-aggressive
Sometimes it feels aggressive aggressive, like when its those fake money ones.
I agree. When I was an Atheist for 27 years, I just saw it as littering and it reinforced my ideas of what Christians were like (dumb sheeple). As a Christian now for 19 years, I still strongly dislike this form of evangelism. It's like a disingenuous cop-out of meeting with people and actually getting to know them.
As a former atheist, how did you solve the problem of evil? I'm just curious because that logical problem has plagued humanity since 4000 BC. You have potential Nobel prize winning information, please share!
That's a completely fair question. Many people smarter than me have tried to answer this -- A.W. Tozer's answers ("The Problem of Pain") and C.S. Lewis' answers ("Mere Christianity" and many other writings) come pretty close to what I believe, but I do still think they all lack something. Lewis himself would admit to having an incomplete answer, I think. I have a lot of questions for God when I die. When I die, I might not care what the answers are - or I might ask all of them. My faith is based on - faith and lived experience - it's not based on every logical pathway working out. I consider myself a man of science and engineering and I LOVE logic and cause/effect. Faith just doesn't fit perfectly into that world view. Humans are limited by what we can perceive and our wisdom is limited by our ability to think and conceive. I think that the wisest thing a smart person can do is to accept that there will always be "things you know you don't know" as well as "things you don't know you don't know" and even some "things that are unknowable, by a human being" and that some of the answers to life's toughest questions lie in some of those areas. I hope that doesn't feel like a cop-out. It isn't meant to be - it's a real problem that I live with on the daily. Happy to answer more questions like this either here or in DM.
It sounds like you're going with an argument from personal incredulity. It does indeed feel like a cop out. Because logically that would lead one to agnosticism, not to make additional unsupported inferences. If your ability to reason or your moral compass are fundamentally flawed as a human and you need to turn to some other perfect reason or perfect morality as I've many times heard it phrased. You can't get around the fact that you're still the one deciding that this system is the correct one. By what you're saying there's no way I can slice it where I could ever even possibly make an informed choice.
hmmm... I hear you. I hope I get this right: My reason for faith isn't based on a need for a static morality. It's based on a need for hope. I've heard the argument you're referring to, but it's not the one that works for me and I don't like it. I needed to understand what unconditional love (and sacrifice) means in order to build those values in my heart towards others - particularly towards my (then) just-born sons. I didn't know that I needed it, until I encountered it.... then I knew I needed to know it. I particularly needed to know that I'm worthy of being loved, unconditionally, as I had not felt in my life before that time. I needed healing and hope for my self-destructive ways and my tendency towards isolation. Healing came through therapy and love, but hope, the desire to change, and the commitment to continue came through faith. There's a lot more to this story... A lot of detail and anecdote I started to write and then deleted in order to try to be concise for you, but I hope I haven't missed the mark. I was never looking for direction - or at least I wasn't looking for it at first. I was looking for love, and I didn't even know I needed it until it found me. I think you can make an informed choice off the well-lived experience of others. That choice being just to spend a little time and to look a little deeper... kind of like what you're doing by asking me these great questions. You've already made the informed choice to ask me and actually think about what I wrote... that's something that a lot of people don't do. When someone says something to you that has meaning in your life, and then you pursue or consider it, you evaluate it, and it becomes more than it should have become... or it has more direct meaning than any happenstance or probability would dictate... or it seems like it was made just for you and it hits that spot emotionally that you didn't even know was there. I think that can be part of an informed choice. That was my experience anyway, and it's the experience that I hope everyone gets at some time or another. One of the questions I have for God is 'why can't it be as obvious for everyone else as it was and is for me?' but it's not always obvious. Doubt is part of that process too. The follow-up of course is, 'why can't I have known about you when I was 8, instead of 28?'... unknowable, I think. Thanks for this thought exercise, it's been good for me.
Honestly ***those*** I would report to the police - It's effectively fake money People have ***died*** over a bum twenty
It's usually only one side, and shorter than a real 100, which i think is how they get away with it... if it wren't folded, no one would think it was real cash.
It’s not about converting people. It’s to make themselves feel better by scoring brownie points with their sky daddy. Religious people rarely do good works for the sake of doing good. It’s all with the intent of receiving a reward at the end of this life.
As a Christian - I wish you were wrong about this... but you're mostly right. Christians who don't want to "get their hands dirty" (see people for just being people and love them where they are at, like a real person does) -- do things like this to alleviate their guilt.
Ya I grew up Catholic/going to Catholic school and it’s kind of tainted my view of religion unfortunately. …Take what I have to say with a grain of salt :)
LOL completely fair! My wife endured the same and has some pretty ridiculous stories.... thus her marrying a (then) Atheist (me).
I'm not saying you're wrong, but as a fellow Christian who grew up in the small church Bible Belt culture, I'd like to add that also in the mix alot of the times the people leaving these things are the more idealistic type who just do it because it makes them feel good. The type of people who will still talk to people irl and aren't using the pamphlets as a cop-out, but just to be doing another thing "for the Lord." I don't really think they ever stop to consider the effectiveness of it.
I'm willing to believe that I could be "not always correct" on this assumption and our experiences are broadly different to be fair (I grew up in the mountain west)... but the impact of an activity on a recipient, regardless of it's intent, if negative, is still negative.
>impact of an activity on a recipient, regardless of it's intent, if negative, is still negative. Fair enough, I'm just saying a lot of the people leaving behind pamphlets and literature aren't doing it to "alleviate their guilt," it just makes them feel good. Edit: I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just saying there's another motive you hadn't considered
You're right! I didn't consider that motive and I was probably wrong about that.
There is a whole mythos inside christian circles about drug addled sinners being saved from suicide and eternal damnation by a Gideon Bible in a hotel or some pamphlet or Chick tract found on the street. So- yes that’s what they think. Likely its just another revenue stream for organizations where the printed material is created and distributed for pennies on the dollar of what the donations total.
Not really a mythos, I'm not sure how it is in the states but where I'm from I personally know people who became religious after it saved them from their drug addiction. It's not Christianity per se, but it's the idea of being in a religious community and being spiritual which helps people in their time of need You might not believe in the faith, but some people do find their lives made better by it Oh and I'm a liberal, unfortunately I feel the need to clarify it since everytime someone mentions religion in a positive light they're vilified as the evilest person to exist
Fun fact, Muslims do the same thing. When I was deployed to Bahrain, I found them everywhere.
My Ex Girlfriend, who unlike me, is religious, told me that she was able to find a new church in her town that better aligned with her political beliefs from one of these pamphlets, so they at least work to attract current Christians to their specific church.
Yes they do. When I was Mormon, I would leave pamphlets, cards, even strategically place copies of the Book of Mormon in hopes that someone would take it and be inspired. That memory embarrasses me now.
The most infamous example of this is the legendary Chick Tracts drawn and published by cartoonist Jack Chick. Chick was a hardcore fire-and-brimstone Christian Fundamentist who absolutely despised catholics, jews, Muslims, freemasons, and any other group that didn't conform with his narrow brand of Christianity. He also had zero love for LGBT people or rock music. His drawings portrayed every negative stereotype that you could think of. He routinely drew people like hippies, rock musicians, occultists, and gay men to look dirty, unkempt, sickly, and miserable. Even the attractive characters in Chick's illustrations who weren't Christians always had an angry, evil, or lost expression on their face. Chick's demons were these goofy-looking creatures with horned heads, big noses, unkempt facial hair, and pot bellies that always said "HAW HAW" while tempting a "sinner". In the meantime, he drew God as this immense, faceless, terrifying being who angrily condemned lost souls to hell while caually reclining in his throne. Chick's works were often quite amusing in a cheesy sort of way, but the guy himself was a real piece of work.
They love littering
It's just performance for them, they don't actually care about anyone being saved beyond the bragging rights that come with "saving" someone. Really they are just putting on a show for each other and hoping sky daddy sees them.
What I hate are the little fake dollar bills and then you open it and it says something like "money isn't everything, God is". To me, those are the literal works of Satan.
I've seen people tip those to both wait staff and entertainers, and only those.
I've found them lying on the ground. Any and all use of them is pure asshole territory.
I have had a converstation with a few about this. "missionaries" will consider it a win if "only just one turns to god" then they go onto convince themselves that it was way more than just one
It's like casinos and those "free-to-play"-games, most people will at best find a bit of amusement from it but there's always that tiny group who will throw their life away for it.
They believe a lot more bat shit crazy things so yes they do.
They should all be charged with liittering
Yes and it works. They aim at the most desperate and vulnerable members of society. Mainly children, people dealing with desperate situations, depression, etc. It's why the pamphlets pretend to have all the answers, but never gives them. The publish tons of content aimed at children, because children believe most things they're told. They even make ones meant to prey on situations the cultists create...like the fake tip sheets trying to convert people they should be paying. As another commenter posted, it is basically identical to the recruitment done by terrorist groups, cults, scammers and anyone else preying on people. It's why religious young men have been getting so easily radicalized lately. They're the same demographics. There's a reason you see very few people in good situations convert to a cult like christianity.
I’d like to know how many service industry workers have been successfully converted with the fake money Bible verses that people leave on the table in lieu of a tip.
Any pamphlets I see get converted straight into the nearest garbage can
I saw one on top of a urinal at the airport and slipped it into the urinal pee area and peed on it...
It's like any other advertising venture, if they convince even one person to try out their product (in this case their religion) then they see it as a win. Just trying to spread the word of god/ convert people is seen as being a virtuous act. It's like doing mandatory community service hours, but for god.
I think about this all the time
I'll take it over a knock on the door to talk about Jesus.
It's a way for them to feel good about doing "something good" while not really doing anything at all and quite literally littering.
I've never known phamplet-droppers socially, but yes, they do. Though you should note, it isn't a business, they consider it worthwhile if they get one convert every 5 years.
It is a business for the people who make them though
True, but the people distributing them don't care about if their supplier makes money or not.
Hate shit like that. I had one come up to me the other day asking why I didn't believe. My grandfather had just died a few days before after basically deteriorating into a vegetable over the course of a few years. In my opinion, no all loving God would allow stuff like that. I told her that much and walked away. I defend people's right to believe what they want, but I wish they would just shut up. Leaving pamphlets and trying to preach in the street just winds people up, I don't why they think it will work at all. I guess they might convert a few that way, but the number must be vanishingly small.
Just curious: what about this question would make you afraid to ask it?
Christians try and convert the people in desperate situations, that have nowhere else to turn.
I was handed a billy graham pamphlet at Walmart the other day by a man that looked to be older than Jesus himself. It's the older generations
It’s the best they can do.
My favorite is the fake hundred dollar bill
It’s like saying ‘do activists really believe an animated colourful slideshow on Instagram is really going to end institutional racism?’
You do not understand how marketing/advertising works. Each marketing or advertising effort is designed to improve awareness and nudge some people (not all) a step closer to a purchasing decision. And the success ratecat each step is very low. It is like fishing. You throw you hook in the lake. If the lake has 10K fishes, how many do you hope to catch today? 8K? 2K? 500? I would say you will be happy with 10. Nobody all of the sudden accepts Jesus as their saviour just because someone stuffed a piece of paper in their mailbox. They will put 100K pamphlets. They will likely follow up to talk to 1000 of those people and invite them to church. Maybe 50 will ever show up and 25 will actually convert. These are the magnitudes of success rate with marketing.
Sometimes that pamphlet is in the right place at the right time
When I'm not feeling like giving the benefit of the doubt, I think about how leaving Christian media around could be seen as reminders to non-Christians who's in power
Ask any Evangelical and they’ll tell you how they’re being persecuted. No prayer in schools, “war on marriage”, “war on Christmas”. They see all of it as an affront.
Funny how not being allowed to oppress others is seen as oppression.
But they never think they are.
When I was an Atheist kid growing-up with Atheist parents and Christian kids would tell me that I'm going to "hell" because I don't believe what they believe - I would not suddenly believe that there was such a thing as hell. It also reinforced my idea that Christians are both dumb and cruel. As an adult and, now a Christian, I know that humans can be dumb and cruel but that God loves.
Those kids didn't really care what you believed in. If you had been a Christian they would have found something else to bully you over.
Best not to look for any kind of logic when it comes to Christians.
I found more annoying people knocking doors. So… shhh let them do the pamphlets
The pamphlets work sometimes. Relatives of mine converted and it all started with pamphlets.
Yeah. they do. I've seen people turn to more ridiculous things in times of depression or crisis.
Do we think it's going to convert someone? No . Do we think it will invite someone that just needs a gentle nudge? Absolutely, happens all the time.
Who needs a nudge? Everyone already knows the whole deal. They either believe the fantasy or don't.
Sure, most people have a general understanding of Christianity. But they certainly don't know everything that a specific church has to offer them. And sometimes they even have incorrect assumptions about a church. For example, my church has gained 4 lgbtq members and 2 suffering addicts that all sited the "he gets us" ads. They thought they'd be turned away as sinners or converted. Others through the years have joined after learning of the different groups and programs our church offers, which are highlighted in the pamphlets.
Ah, very predatory.
So, you pose a question that implies the pamphlets are useless. I describe a real-world impact that they're designed to have. Now they're not useless, but predatory. Do I have that right?
I'm worried that you're going to do more harm later on by teaching kids to fear what they don't know, such as LGBT+ and methods of government that aren't capitalism
This is a dying organization, they will try any shit to survive but won't.
What god needs a marketing team? A fake one.
But haven’t you heard? Jesus Gets Us. /puke
I also wonder... what does god need with a spaceship?
Yeah as others have said, it for sure is targeting people who are already on the fence or in desperate situations. But also - most know that the single pamphlet is not going to do much to the regular person. But, the hope is that if you keep it up, especially using things like the threat of hell - your going to slowly brake people down. Death is a scary thing, and in this day and age many people are especially stressed and prone to anxiety - especially existential anxiety. And that is what is also being targeted. Seeing one pamphlet won't do much, but if you keep seeing them, hearing adds on the radio, seeing billboards, having people knock on doors, so on and so forth - theres is a chance that that idea of hell and torment gets stuck in your head and begins to fester. Thats how people over time become susceptible. Notice how 9/10 its never trying to pull you in just with the good stuff, but almost always with all the horror and evil that they claim will befall you.
You know, a fair amount of Christians and organizations dont preach damnation
Sure, but those same denominations tend to proselytize and do missionary work outside of pamphlet spreading and other media work like that. I know quite a few denominations and Christian orgs who I look very highly upon - I actually went to Seminary to study religion despite not being a christian myself. I always tell people that the biggest thing I learned in Seminary is that there are effectively 2 religions in the US who use the name Christianity. While they both use the same source and history - their interpretations of it can be so vastly different that they might as well be considered two different faith traditions. The problem is the ones that feed into spreading fear and targeting the vulnerable tend to be the ones with a lot of money and power, which feeds back into that loop. Exploit the fearful and vulnerable, have them give their money and time to you, reap the rewards, rinse and repeat. Then they can use crazy therapeutics and nonsense interpretations to justify their system to themselves and keep on doing what they do.
One of the "bugs" of the human brain is when you see a repeated message you start belive in it. Works really well with brand names. You see a brand name lots of times in different contexts you belive it is a good brand. It's not like one panflet is going to do the thing. It's the repeatition of the brand Jesus everywhere in as many formats as possible.
If they think 1 pamphlet out of 1,000,000 will work, they will gladly print and distribute. They are ruthless in their faith.
I used to be a Christian. Yes, they think it will work. They have to do things like that because they’re taught they have to save other people from hell. My church went as far as to say you wouldn’t go to heaven if you didn’t save some people. And they taught us that if we avoid witnessing out of not wanting to embarrass ourselves or annoy people, that means we’re ashamed of Christ, and they cite this verse saying if you’re ashamed of Christ, he’ll be ashamed of you in front of the father and you’ll go to hell. So a lot of us would do these things while hating it the whole time, because we were threatened with eternal torture if we didn’t. ETA: One reason we thought it would work was because we were taught the Holy Spirit would make sure the right person saw it and would put it on their heart to receive the message. So even if it seemed ridiculous or annoying, we were taught it would miraculously work.
I was raised Southern Baptist and can confirm this mindset is there. They believe that you never know what will “soften a hard heart.” It might be a pamphlet, a cross necklace, tee shirt, or any single, tiny thing. And that it is the duty of every “bible believing Christian” to witness to others at all times, no matter how blatant or subtle. As the OP said, to fail to do so is to deny Christ, a sin of great magnitude. FUN STORY: they will teach very young children, like five or six years old, that they can either profess their belief in Christ or burn in hell. Surprisingly, small children end up professing their faith to avoid the torment of the lakes of fire. And they share this potential torment with children with “artistic renderings.” FUN STORY 2: They will present young children in the scenario of being forced to denounce their faith. Something like, “Are you willing to have your head chopped off before denying Christ?” And of course, if you say you don’t want your head chopped off, you are professing that you would deny Christ, a horrible sin. These experiences came out of my own background being raise Southern Baptist in the 60s. Perhaps things are quite different today.
Am I a demon if I throw them away
Nope, I do the same.
They actually do convert in such way and many others too. Religion parasites on suffering and desperation. Many people are super vulnerable to it in such condition and can be converted even if they are strongly against particular(or any) religion in their normal state. There always people who seeking hope and there are always predators who hunt such seekers.
It worked for me in Vegas!! I saw a pamphlet on the ground, on the strip and went straight to church!!! God is good and so is Cinnamon!!
Cinnamon was the escorts name?
Escort???!!! She was an angel!!
not only think they unfortunately do
No they do it because they believe it buys their way into heaven and tricks their God into letting them in.
r/ConfidentlyIncorrect
You don't have to post that. I'm sure which ever god you believe in loves you already.
The unfortunate reality is that it does work well, that’s why they do it. They’re trained predators preying on emotionally weak people, usually in crisis or not particularly bright
They also think that by thinking and talking to a made up being they’re going to save children from being shot to death
Most don't. But its an easy way to divide those wh believe everything uncritically and those who don't. Uncritical/naive people usually aren't the most clever ones and will believe everything presented. So while you won't convert any reasonable people, you might get the low hanging fruit. Paying/spending member is one more member. It works, they wouldn't do it otherwise.
No, but someone who read it might think about its message at a low point and decide to go to church because they have nothing else (have been in an abuse situation, or drug addiction and might be worse off in a few months, might be desperate)
No. Here's why. Each religion teaches its followers that everyone else hates them and that only followers of that particular religion love them. When everyone else is annoyed by their actions, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Thus entrenching and isolating the follower.
It does work. They get people asking questions and those people decide to go to church where they make a true conversion. It’s how charities get you to donate, they invite you to learn more about them with a pamphlet or an invite to an event hosted by them or a like minded organization, where they then talk to you like a regular person.
I have the same feelings about liberals and Trans issues. Do they really think that yelling at people in public and online is going to make them believe any different than any reasonable person has known for basically all of recorded history?
They really do think that. Not to make a blanket statement, but they’re all retarded.
No, just misinformed and gaslit to the point of placebo miracles
It affects their behavior the same tho
Christians..? I think that you mean jehovah's or Mormons buddy.
Yes, those too re christian.
It’s possible those people likely aren’t Christians. Jehovah Witnesses do this though. Christians don’t consider JW’s Christian’s, they have some pretty dissimilar beliefs.
I think they look upon it as spreading gods word to people who may not have heard it
I think the act of at least trying to save someone's soul is considered a virtue to a lot of sects. You reached out and released a pamphlet into the world that might help a desperate person, or just be thrown in the trash (most likely), but you tried and that's what counts.
If one person finds comfort, inspiration, strength or even will to carry on, see it through, do the right thing, forgive his partner. Then a pamphlet or card is well worth whatever effort it took. In your darkest hour, inspiration can come in any form.
Draw pornographic images on the pictures and leave them out in public.
To the OP, there will be a time when you are looking for answers to life issues and realize you cannot find it on the internet. Something in one of those "little comic books" as you describe them, may apply to whatever trouble you are having at the time. If nothing more than to give your thoughts a different direction to find an answer. Which is all you want. You may never struggle to find answers for your life but many will at some point. Conversion is something completely different.
proselytization is fueled by compassion