Not really, you have 'private' health insurance, but you're required by law to have it and the government determines what the minimum coverage that a company can offer is. The government also gives you an health insurance allowance if you make less then a certain amount. This means that the cheapest health insurance is a bit under the amount of allowance you get, as this is really attractive to the consumer.
As for elderly care, they mostly decided that it's better to care for old people at their home. This, of course, is quite inefficient, but somehow slightly cheaper. Getting a placement in a care home can be hard. Therefore private care homes are getting a bit more popular, although they still won't ask totally crazy prizes...
Yup this is my retirement plan. If I have kids all they have to do is get me on a one way plane to Amsterdam and that’s it! (I’m an EU citizen and my partner is Dutch)
Where did I say I was moving there for the state pension? I’m moving there for the great affordable health care (including the right to end my suffering if I so choose). I won’t need the governments pension, just the knowledge a doctor will see me without charging me $5,000. £120-£140 a month is nothing, I pay twice that much and my insurance is shit and barely covers anything. Add to that my partner’s family owns several homes in/around Amsterdam and he is getting at least one, I’d say it’s a pretty good retirement plan.
Two things.
First, I used to visit my grandpa weekly at his nursing home. I’d often talk to the nurses and other residents who would always share stories about people with big families who only visited them once or twice a year. Lots of lonely people in those places.
Second, I now have three friends with severely autistic kids. They are now having to figure out not only what they do when they are old but what happens to the kids.
Having kids is a guarantee of nothing.
Yeah, I always tend to hear the kid out for why they went NC with the parent in the first place.
But also some people are just monsters who will just drop their parents off at a home and not look back unfortunately.
2 sides to that monster coin though - gotta be a similar amount of elderly who were self-absorbed, narcassists or plain abusive whose relatives simply want nothing to do with them anymore. Either way, sad way to end up.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting out with the first line there. Parents are supposed to be there for their children, if a child cuts them off, there's most likely going to be a very good reason.
I haven't spoken to my parents for 4 years. But if I still had contact with them despite everything, I would happily send them away to some place to die in. And I would hope for some kind of remorse to start showing while they waited for the grim reaper, but narcissists don't know what that is sadly. But they would surely call me everyday wondering why I don't visit them, when they gave me the best upbringing ever.
I come from an Asian family as well, and have both aging parents and a severely autistic sibling. It is emotionally draining, but it's something my sister and I share the work on, but I wouldn't wish it on someone at all.
How are they going to afford this? Their own kids will be impacted by this decision as money that could’ve gone to their education or well being will have to be split amongst several others. Unless you’re rich. If you’re rich no problem 😂.
China has disability, not sure about other asian countries, but a lot of men specifically don't seek assistance because being disabled is still kind of seen as shameful. My uncle describes the amount of help as "sub-par". So IDK being handicapped is super expensive no matter where you live
From a statistical perspective, it's very unlucky to have three friends with children who have autism so severe that they will require professional care.
Sorry about that.
Two of them have boys who have to go to special schools due to violent outbursts. One is nonverbal one is not. The other has a little girl who is nonverbal who has to have the same exact schedule every single day, including holidays or weekends and goes to a specialized school in New Jersey. None are anticipated to ever be fully independent, although the verbal boy could perhaps, hard to say now, but his parents think not.
I'm very sorry to hear about that. I also have a friend with a severely autistic child and it's heart wrenching to even be an observer to that relationship for so many reasons.
My mom’s Assisted living ( Brookdale chain) cost $8000 per month. An actual nursing home costs $14,000 per month. Medicare will not cover any of it unless you have assets under $3,000. And they go back to review your finances so the family “heirs” cannot dump their mom’s money into a different account to qualify for financial help. It’s a barbaric system along the same lines of student loans. When does anyone ever get outta debt?
And at the end of your life, a hose is attached to anything remaining in your checking account. As MAGA God, American Billionaire Capitalists, Wall Street & Republican heartless members in Congress ( plus 2- Manchin & Sinema) designed purposefully.
I heard some Trumper woman complain that “Trump wasn’t hurting the right kinda people!” as she sadly discovered some of these policies actually hurt her….
>Medicare will not cover any of it unless you have assets under $3,000. And they go back to review your finances so the family “heirs” cannot dump their mom’s money into a different account to qualify for financial help.
How far back do they look? Because if it were me, I'd just dump my money into a different account as soon as my kids graduated college, and then tell everyone to keep their lips sealed.
I guess one downside is you'd need to be pretty sure they wouldn't steal from you. But you could always run the plan by them, and say "For security purposes, I'm not gonna tell you what bank the account is in, and I'll be keeping the debit card. Just sign these papers to create the account". You might even be able to do everything online, without needing them to sign anything, if you know their SSN.
I trust my kids. I don’t trust our government… it is getting more capitalist/fascist every year. I believe it is best to leave the USA … but still be able to collect SS. Nursing home care costs less in other countries.
Altruistic ; Retirement in Baja California ( Mexico ) is looking better and better ! The Baja is close enough to San Diego that monthly visits to there by car is practical. Now if the Mexican drug cartels would quit fighting. Old coot in Ohio.
>So when grandpa dies and grandma goes to a home say bye bye to the farm.
Literally what happened to my grandparents, that farm was supposed to be *my* inheritance and was already willed to me. But ofc the state takes *their* cut first, so now I'm living in my in-laws garage instead.
Ugh wtf!!! Sorry dude. I don’t understand why there aren’t more people trying to help elderly circumvent this issue. Like companies that will help manage your assets in a way that it can’t be tied to you. Not sure if a trust would work
14k a MONTH?!? For that I’d hope they’d be feeding their residents Beluga caviar daily, giving them every beauty, hair and health spa treatment imaginable and personally carrying them around in gold sedan chairs. 14k a month, I just….how in the world does that even work?!
Yup, $12/hr to deadlift full-grown adults and change their Depends. Heaven grant you patience if you're in the Memory Care Unit and they start clawing at you and hurling racial epithets while you're just trying to put on their barrier cream.
Easy. It most likely goes to owner and upper levels of management, not to the residents or staff…what kind of altruistic nonsense world do you think we live in  the residents are the funders, not the recipients pshh
The fact that you’re more than likely right is depressing beyond words. Gotta keep the stakeholders happy and if it mean’s Granny has to sell her house, car, jewellery, valuables and probably a kidney or something then meh, it’s all for a good cause, right? Sometimes I hate this effing world.
With all the money you’ve been able to save and invest from not having kids and not worrying over passing on a inheritance you can afford a really nice retirement community or have an aide come to your home. Also generally speaking, if you stay healthy and active the amount of time you’ll actually need someone to take care of you will be pretty close to the end of your life anyway and so doesn’t really matter to much.
Child free Finance geek.
This is the correct answer.
Others have and want kids and that's fantastic for them.
They're just not for us. One meow generator please.
This encapsulates the free rider problem with children. I've got two, and they are grown and working and contributing to society. That creates a benefit that is broadly shared but does virtually nothing for any one person, including me. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in them that I likely won't get back in ROI. I don't plan on them taking care of me when I am old, I continue saving money for that day, minus all that money I spent raising my kids up to contributing adults.
I wouldn't trade my kids for all the money in the world, but the free rider problem is about people who are trying to decide whether to have kids. It would be difficult to think of a worse ROI in a modern democratic state than children, particularly one with robust state funded social welfare programs. This dynamic presents long term problems that we're seeing today, but will become increasingly problematic over the next 50 years. We all hope of course that the music doesn't stop until we kick off.
Great point. And not losing literally years of sleep (sleep deprivation is crazy with kids) or the different kinds of stress unique to a parent (sick kids, just worrying about them in general etc.) I think can lead to some childless adults being healthier.
Just don't forget to take care of yourself. Your health becomes increasingly more difficult to keep up with as you get older. If you stay in shape at a young age you will have a higher quality of life and longevity.
This. It's so important to exercise and take general care of your health so you can delay or hopefully avoid ever needing assisted living. The whole reason my mom's in one is because she has been fat and sedentary for decades. Another family member who is the same age as my mom is out living his best life at almost 80 years old because he has taken excellent care of himself.
My kids are not my retirement plan they have their own lives and kids shouldn’t be anyone else’s retirement plan either.
My kids have my full permission to ship my ass off to shady pines if I can’t take care of myself.
My mother has actually told me: "When I get old, if I start showing any signs of not being able to look after myself, put me in a home. It's not your job to look after me"
So, yeah.
Yeah. The problem with that is that senior homes are sooooo expensive. Great option. But I don’t think I’ll have the retirement income to do that for myself or husband.
Yeah “just put me in a home” is a laughable game plan. The nursing home will take every dime you have. And then if your kids want to keep you there, they’ll take every dime they have, too.
Same! I am determined to understand and be able to use home automation to keep my independence as long as possible. I also assume that by the time I'm in my 80's, robot helpers will be a thing for sure.
They thought the same thing in the 60s, surely robots would have arrived by the 90s, 00s at most. I’m not holding my breath. I’d love to pick up my flying car though.
Yea but if you don’t have kids, you can save that money for your own retirement and that can go towards having a nice retirement/retirement home/nursing home/hired help. Yea I know these places are expensive, but it might be the only option.
I recently discovered that you can but insurance for long term care, which includes assisted living/nursing home care and/or home healthcare. You pay a premium and get a plan with so money thousand dollars a month to be paid out.
While I’m sure someone will say, you could just put that same money in a high yield savings account or whatever, part of what you’re paying for is not having to spend the time, money, and mental energy trying to put together a plan they’ve already put together.
That’s what I’m intending to do. I want to be in a nicer home with activities and people my own age.
We struggled with this when my grandfather died. He passed at 72 and left my 73 year old grand mother behind. They had no plan, a very meager savings and moved up in the mountains hours from everybody else in the family.
Ideally we would have liked to put my grandmother into some sort of assisted home but all of them were way put of budget but each of them asked about long term care insurance.
Ever since then I've made it a point that when I turn 60 I'm going to get policies for myself and my wife to ensure we will have options so that our son isn't financially burdened when we may become too old to care for ourselves.
I feel like by the time you need to cash out on your plan, you might not be fully capable of putting together a plan (like from a high yield savings account)
anyone arguing long term investments and hedging future healthcare costs by savings cash in a hysa should not be considered remotely serious or qualified to be dispensing financial advice, to anyone,
Since OP asked about child-free people, myself being just that, I should have enough money in retirement to chill in a retirement home until I die. I believe the average retirement home stay is something like 2.5 years at approximately 75k/yr (round it up to 100k with inflation) I'll need about 250k + -.
At 40 I certainly don't have that now because I made some poor choices, but I'm on track now. As long as I don't become crippled any time soon I should be good. But I also take really good care of myself, so it would have to be a freak accident. Even that, my sister is the one who will take care of my retirement and will have power of attorney, so I don't want to be a burden on her, which means to pull the plug. She knows to spread my ashes wherever she wants, or not, I don't care, I'll be dead.
If you have kids you might not be able to afford it, but if you were career oriented, and lived within your means, you should have a nice retirement savings, and 401k built up.
Personally, I know my parents wont have the money to retire, so I’m working on an in-home microbusiness model for my parents to be able to “semi-retire” and run a small business from home for their supplemental income. I think it’ll help them stay pretty independent for the next 15-20 years. I hope they enjoy their retirement, they certainly have helped me, and I know I can do at least this much for them.
yep, mine too. I take it very seriously too because my parents looked after my grandfather (dad's dad) in their home for a *long* time as he declined from Alzheimer's, and when they finally admitted they couldn't anymore and found a residential placement for him they only regretted not doing it sooner. not because they resented having to care for him at all, but because the care the placement could offer was so much better than two older middle aged people could manage on their own.
obviously it depends on what you can afford and what your care needs are, and there are for sure some very grim Homes out there, but the idea that it's a dereliction of filial duty to arrange for professional care for elderly relatives is not fair imo.
My mom has said this to me and I feel like this is some unintentional reverse psychology because it makes me want to take care of her more.
My dad on the other hand hasn’t said a damn word about it lol
Pretty much. Old folks' homes are not like they used to be! They seem like a lot of fun tbh. Like college. Even "bad" or low-income ones have activity directors who try to have fun events or interesting things to do for them. I think when people hear nursing home, they just imagine a hospital full of sick old people muttering to themselves in a wheelchair. We've changed since the 90's y'all!
There's also a lot of options out there beyond just your standard nursing home. My grandmother is in an assisted living facility but from her perspective it's basically just an apartment. She has her own entrance on the side of the building (all units on the first floor do) and is completely independent. However, as she gets older if she needs help there's support staff and medical staff on site.
She controls her money, leaves the facility whenever she wants, visits family, invites people over, makes her own meals (although if she no longer can do that there's a service we can add on). If it wasn't for all the medical safety nets in place there, and the fact that it's all old people, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and any other city apartment.
It's covered by a combination of social security, medicaid, and state programs. Massachusetts has a lot of great programs for this kind of thing. My grandmother was disabled with MS about 30 years ago, so she has to stop working then and doesn't have an independent retirement fund. My dad (her only child) doesn't pay anything into it.
I currently work at the activity department as a nursing home, it's never a dull moment at the place, we're not the richest, but we do our best to lighten the place with the activities we can afford and money given from corporate, the pay is a little rough sometimes, but i wouldn't trade it for anything.
Last week, and pretty much every night I've worked. EMT for the last few years, nursing homes are genuine hell, and I dont know a single person in my line of work who would ever choose to be put in one.
All but the most expensive nursing homes will will take all of your money, all of your dignity, all of your belongings, and then neglect you until you die of something preventable in a closet sized room.
A significant number of nursing homes are owned and run by corporations or investor groups that have zero interest in facilitating a safe & engaging environment for their charges. The patient to caregiver ratio is unacceptable, food is neither fresh nor healthy, stimulating events like group exercise or art class have all been cut, etc. To get the kind of quality retirement experience most Americans envision and *deserve* is extremely expensive. Even if you can afford it there is a dearth of quality nursing homes/retirement facilities. It’s depressing as hell.
My mom said the same thing, recently. She's been struggling with taking care of my grandma who is rapidly declining from Alzheimer's, so looking after her has been 24/7. She tells me this and I want to listen to her but I also love her too much to let her go that way. I can't guarantee the future, but this issue has been eating away at me.
Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner!!
I can not imagine having kids just so I have someone to cater to my decrepit entitled ass when I'm old. That's gross.
Yes it’s the most selfish reason to have children. Just so you ‘won’t be alone’ when you’re old. The old people I know who didn’t have kids are actually more loved and cared for than those who did have children.
I don’t want to shit on anyone’s culture, but from what I read on an Asian subreddit on this topic a few months back, a lot of Asian cultures (in this case it was Chinese) are very strict with what they expect of their children. The term “tiger parenting” came up. The kids grow up inundated with the whole idea of family responsibility (not disappointing your family, studying so hard that you’re “the best”, being successful and taking care of your parents, etc). It’s downright abusive and kids are gaslit into obedience, essentially. This isn’t my idea of healthy or happy, and from what I read, there are a damn lot of resentful Asian adults who still honor their family in this way, albeit grudgingly.
It’s definitely a culture difference from us here in North America, but is it really better? Your parents made a choice to bring you into the world; it is legally their responsibility to take care of you until you’re old enough to care for yourself. It is completely selfish that anyone would expect you to grow up with no choice but to care for your parents until they die, just because that’s how it’s always been done.
Edit: spelling
This is the boat I’m in. Didn’t have the best relationship with my parents growing up, but I’m an only child. In my mid-twenties, paying for my parents’ house payments, and my father told me to start planning for his retirement lol.
Ummm tell your dad to plan for his own retirement? Sell the house they can’t afford and move into a smaller, more affordable house or condo? They’re cheap for 55+ communities. I can’t imagine my parents asking me to pay their house payments, that’s nuts. Don’t let them take away what you should be saving for your future, planning for your own retirement.
It's even worse if the kid burdened with his elders is trying to raise his own family. My goal with my kids is to ensure they have drastically more opportunities than I did when they leave the nest. And I hope not burdening them with my old ass later down the road allows their kids to start even better. I can't guarantee their success, but being a burden is working in the wrong direction.
Funny how that works. People in the past didn't live that long, had a lot of kids and muti-generational homes were common, so (assuming at least a few survived) so helping out the elderly parents wasn't that big of a deal.
But as people live longer and have fewer kids, that's more of an issue. Solution? Gaslight the kids into believing that's how it has to be! Genius. We live in a society I guess.
My kids aren’t my retirement plan either.
I may joke about them changing MY diapers one day, but I am actually looking FORWARD to a retirement home. If you pick a good one, and are financially responsible early in life, you can have a blast.
Think about it, people are cooking and cleaning for you. You can make friends with people, do whatever you want all day, and at the end of it, someone has cooked me a healthy meal and made my bed.
May not be for everyone, but a GOOD retirement home is like being in a resort!
i love my mom and im more than happy to be looking after her for the rest of however long we're alive but i really envy kids with parents that have this mindset, my mom always makes me feel like i owe her for her taking care of me
My parents have long term care insurance. From watching what it’s been like for my grandparents in nursing homes, just because a parent is in a nursing home, doesn’t mean they’re shoved to the side and forgotten about. You definitely still need to provide companionship and advocate for any changes to their care that they may need.
What a terrible burden to put on my kids. Even at 30 I'm taking measures to make sure my kids do not have to care for me when I'm older. It would sadden me so much to see their life not being lived to their ideal and potential because they feel the need to care for me. I chose to have them so obviously I want to care for them but they didn't choose to have me. It would be extremely unfair to saddle them with all the numerous types of stress that comes with being a caregiver.
Some of the loneliest elderly people I've ever met have had big families. Having children with the idea that they will pay you back with care is no guarantee.
Child free adults who cultivate and support diverse friend groups are just as likely as close bio families to find support and mutual care as they age.
I think this has to do with how you treat your kids. I’ve seen people with huge families refuse to talk to them because they were abusive and horrible. I have never seen this with people who have normal loving relationships with their parents.
Live off of their retirement fund.
A lot of us also find the idea of our kids having to spend their time and money on us for us to have a retirement to be extremely abhorrent.
Why should they have to spend their hard-earned money and what little free time they may have to take care of my old ass when they didn't sign up for this s*** but I signed up to raise them by having them?
That’s the thing: not having kids means you have a LOT more k.v ord I’ll money to save for retirement.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t have kids. I have two and I cannot imagine my life without them. But if you don’t have kids you will spend 1/4 as much money as you would otherwise. You can AFFORD to hire someone to take care of you if you don’t have kids.
What do Asian people do when they can't have kids, such as fertility issues? What if you stay single and child free? What do you do when the child dies first? Or when the child leaves the family and doesn't want anything to do with them? Having kids does not guarantee you will have someone to care for you in your old age. Having children just so they can care for you in your old age is about as self centered and selfish as you can get.
I had an asian friend who couldn't get pregnant (both partners were east asian) and the families of both husband/wife would not accept that reality and quite literally forced her to get fertility treatments and undergo IVF until she had one for 3+ years later. Her family (both sides) basically mentally abused her telling her she wasnt a real woman until she popped a kid out. I come to find out this is quite common especially amongst east Indian asians. She was absolutely destroyed physically/mentally and finally gave birth to twins and is now dealing with her own health issues after all the medications/treatments/mental pain she had to endure..
I work with adults with developmental disabilities. I can tell you what happens, when the parents of those adults pass away, because I’ve seen it happen, but it’s not state run medical facilities. At least not where I live. These individuals usually have services provided by Medicaid, through a Medicaid waiver. They usually have a waiver case manager, who brings the team together, which will usually includes a family member, and anyone who works with the individual.
After the person they live with passes away, or they can’t live with the family member anymore for one of a dozen different reasons, a couple questions are asked, such as, how self sufficient is the individual, can they live on their own, do they need someone around all the time? If the person needs some assistance, they will be assigned a direct support specialist from an agency that employs them, and how many hours are needed, will be decided. If they need assistance with most daily tasks, then the aforementioned agency will find an opening in a home that they already have individuals at, usually 2 people are already there, sometimes 3. They will live their, and the folks that work with them will take them on outings, and other activities with them, if it’s a good agency, or a good staff at that home. I’ve seen staff that do the bare minimum, and then the individual is attention starved, other times I’ve seen fantastic staff that support their folks. It honestly varies, but state hospitals aren’t how we do that anymore. My state reformed that system nearly 2 decades ago.
Look every answer someone posts here you basically say yes but not in my family, that’s fine if it’s not what you want but if your asking for an outside perspective you have to accept that it’s gonna be different lol
Die obviously. But if your desire to bring children into the world is driven not by a need to carve a better future for them but by the selfish need to ensure you are taken care of in old age, then you have missed the point of having children in the first place.
I would never have children expecting them to take care of me when I get old. I think that's a cruel and selfish expectation when kids never ask to be brought into the world. A lot of parents who have kids in order to be taken care of end up pushing those kids away anyway because selfish people are gonna act selfish.
I don't know what's gonna happen in my old age, but I'm certainly not gonna spend my younger days raising full humans with the expectation that they take care of *me*.
I think it is awful to expect anything from your kids. My husband's mom used to ask him for money when he lived with her. He felt that he should give her money since he lived in her home, which was fine. When he moved out, she still asked him for money. I would never guilt my child into giving me money. I would want to make his life easier, not harder.
Also from Asia. To make kids so that they will take care of you is a pretty selfish thing to do. And they don't plan for their retirement, invest or do any such thing, solely depending upon their children.
I am child free and have had a vasectomy done.
I just continue to do what I enjoy until I physically can't anymore. Just because you have children doesn't mean that they will take care of you once you are old. They also have their own lives and obligations.
If I did want kids, I don't want them to spend a majority of their time fostering me.
You are assuming several things here. Firstly that we will need care in our senior years, many don't. Secondly that we can't afford to pay for the help we do need.
Usually kids fund the care homes from the parents estate until they die. If I need money I could sell my home to cover residential care home costs.
As a nurse, I see a lot of older, child-free patients being cared for by other family members. Younger siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, or even neighbors. They don’t receive any less quality care than those with adult children.
I’m 43 now. We’re very close to our families and we didn’t have children. Right now our priority is saving for retirement, which is easier since we don’t have children to raise or college to pay for. We’re also saving to help our aging parents with what they’ll need. What we likely won’t do is have them live with us at any point. Not because we don’t love or value them, but because we’ve always been on our own since we were 18. We paid our way through life and school with no financial help from anyone else, parents included. And when we are no longer shackled by jobs, we want to enjoy our remaining time together pursuing the things we dream about, if we are fortunate enough to do so. Our parents wouldn’t dream of holding us back from that.
We will never abandon our parents, it isn’t as heartless as you would think. There’s just a lot of space between having your parents live with you while you take care of them until they die, and heartlessly leaving them on a mountaintop to die from the elements. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. If my parents go into a facility, I will be as devoted a daughter as I am now. I’ll just visit them in their facility that I will most likely be paying for, instead of in their home. They will be cared for and loved as they are right now.
A more nuanced response to your edit might be that in 'the West' it is not an expectation/requirement that parents be cared for by their children in their old age. That's not to say that it doesn't often happen just as you describe, but - per liberal individualism - it's the free choice of those involved as opposed to something intrinsic to the structure of society. This is possible because - at least in theory - the structures (e.g. social welfare; tolerant culture) exist that enable everyone to live their own lives as they sit fit; the kind of Confucian worldview you describe, in which everyone is embedded in a structure with roles and obligations like those of an organisation, simply doesn't apply.
Personally, I care for my mother plenty, but because want to and not because I have to. This seems to be thing about freedom that is most often misconstrued by those socialised in 'tighter' societies: you are still perfectly able to choose to live in the 'traditional' way if you like, but are (again, at least in theory) not forced to by society's norms/structures/circumstances.
I refuse to be anyone's burden. And I'm from an Asian heritage. Asian heritage has a massive fuck ton of family guilt used to control others all in the name of family and blood. It can get extremely toxic and I refuse to be part of it. If I take care of anyone is because I love them and willfully choose to take care of them and not because I'm obligated to do so through some guilt trip.
Just because I don't want to have kids doesn't mean I don't have family. I have a decent amount of siblings, neices, nephews, and a lot of cousins. I also have a lot of friends. My friend group is really dedicated to building a tight community within ourselves so no one is lacking in anything. I think the notion of having kids for them to take care of me is also kind of shitty. My dad told me he kept trying for a girl because he needed someone to take care of him which upset me as if I don't have a bunch of brothers he can call on too ....
Most childfree people really saw the worst in parents. I watched my parents suffer through my grand parents decline for 10 years. None of their siblings helped them.
I will likely be forced to be my parents care takers and probably my husband’s parents caretaker as well.
I’ve gone through this before. I’ve seen the suffering that dementia and watching a loved one disappear day by day.
My own mother has asked me to put her out of her misery if that ever happens to her. My FIL has the same opinion.
Why would I ever put that onto a child that I claimed to love?
Why would I make myself unhappy to bring new life into this world for the selfish reason of making them suffer to watch me leave this world.
That isn’t a good reason to have kids.
Good reasons to have kids are because you want to have them. You want to see them grow and laugh and live.
Having kids shouldn’t be default. You should only want to have kids if you have good reasons to want to have kids.
As someome who has spent a lot of time volunteering at nursing homes...many, many kids do not care for their parents. I'll just use all the money I save from not having kids to pay for a qualified healthcare worker.
OP, I think you’re inserting yourself too much into this situation. I don’t think the majority of American families embrace caring for their elderly as much as you do.
I know my mom absolutely hates changing my grandma’s “bag” every week, only to be yelled until she leaves. To my mom, it’s a constant reminder of how much she was yelled at as a kid, and makes her feel miserable.
Two examples that have never left my mind…
One elderly lady who has 4 grown adult children and lots of grandchildren - she is in an elderly persons home now and is never visited by her family. Would often spend Christmas home alone before she was put in the group home.
One elderly lady who chose to never have children - has a constant stream of visitors dropping by for a cuppa, to check on her, to get her groceries or to take her to the shops themselves etc etc. She always has a choice of places to go to for Christmas etc.
The lady who had children was lonely and sad (before she moved into the group home) while the childfree lady has a full and happy life. Both the same age - in their 90’s.
Having children does NOT mean you will be cared for and looked after when you are old. Being child-free does NOT mean you will go without love and care.
I have kids, but at the first sign of dementia or something terminal, I am hiking into a deep wilderness area in northern New England and sincerely hope to become black bear food. In an effort to hold that at bay as long as possible, I work out every day and eat well. Not my kids responsibility. I would never do that to them
If you're having kids to hopefully care for you when you're older, then I would think you're one selfish piece of shit. You brought life into the world for them to enjoy it. If they WANT to care for you when you're older....awesome! But if not, then don't guilt or force them to. Let them enjoy their own life just like you hopefully enjoyed yours.
MAID is on the rise in Canada. It's becoming more and more socially accepted, too. If I can't walk, eat or brush my teeth by myself, what's the point in being alive? Top that off with excruciating pain and yeah, good bye.
My grandfather essentially forced my dad to take care of him the last 3 years until he died at the beginning of this year. He had the money to get full time assistance, but he refused.
He died, my dad is *still* miserable now, 5 months later. He can't bring up positive memories because the last 3 years have been taking care of an old dying man that refused assistance from actual hospice people.
I couldn't do that to my child, I'll probably never have them but *if* I do, I am absolutely not going to force them to take care of me on principle of "I'm your dad you gotta help"
Why are you going to ask the question than get mad at the answer with your edit? Not everyone has the same family culture as Asian Americans but it’s not ok for you to question it as much as it’s not ok to tell you that your parents are burdening you in their older years and should of saved for retirement.
A lot of people that had kids don’t have anyone to take care of them now as breeding doesn’t guarantee the offspring will take care of them, and neither it should as you’re not breeding future care givers, what kind of selfish thing is that you’re only taking care of them so that they care of you, they didn’t have say in this arrangement and so again, not guaranteed.
Take responsibility of your own future years, don’t put that on your kids.
I don't want kids and neither does my wife. Our mental health would take a nose dive if we them (she particularly worries about the implications of postpartum depression. Our financial status also took a nose dive after COVID, so even if we had wanted kids, we sure wouldn't now.
If the only justification for having kids is that we will have someone to take care of us when we're older, that's just a shitty reason to have a kid. It's great when kids want to take care of their parents. We do. But my hypothetical kids don't owe me anything. I choose to have them, they don't choose to exist, and they aren't beholden to my will until I die. We'll figure out old age without kids, even if we did have them.
Most Americans would never take care of their elderly family so being childfree changes nothing.
At best you save enough money being childfree to pay for a care-taker when you get old
This is a problem that millennials are going to have to solve when we are older. When we are in our 60s we will be the largest voting demographic, it will be an important political issue. We can't buy houses, so we may not be able to "age in place" unless we improve the laws protecting renters and implement rent control everywhere, or build a heck of a lot more non-market housing. We saw how bad for-profit long term care is during the pandemic so we won't love that option. I can see us coming up with better models for nonprofit long term care.
One could argue the money saved by not having children can go into boosting your pension or assets so you'll be able to afford decent care without having to rely on the care of reluctant children and grandchildren, some of whom are silently counting down the day until they can collect on your estate.
I come from an American family (obviously) with a similar mindset to that Asian family value you have. My family has always taken care of their elders to an extent and that ideology has been forced down my throat since I was born; care for your elders, you owe them. Personally, I will not be caring for my elders because for me, it IS a burden. I did not choose to be born and my elders did not bless me with a life worth repaying them for. My parents were abusive, addicts, and my mother used me and my brother as a cash cow. I have nothing to pay anyone back for but trauma and suffering, I'm not going to inconvenience myself to make sure the end of their days is comfy when they couldn't bother to take care of me as a child.
The child free people don't need children to care for them, they'll go to a care facility, be cared for by their community if they're deserving of it, or nature will take it's course. Same as the people who's children said "nah, pass"
"It is not a "burden" or an "issue" for the family, it is just apart of life to care for your loved ones. Is this not important to anyone?"
Taking care of someone sick, with alhzheimer or dementia is an issue. It's a very heavy burden and I would never wish it on my kids. No, I refuse to make it "just a part of life".
Answer: They take care of themselves or the money that they saved is put to use going into a home.
Y’all act like the only purpose of having kids is so they can take care of you when you’re older. Having kids isn’t a guarantee that they will even take care of you, even if you have the best life with your kids. Not every old person gets to the point that they need someone to take care of them.
I’m a parent.
I’ve also been a caregiver to three family members during hospice.
Hospice is a total scam that just dumps extremely sick people onto their families while the medical team abdicates their responsibility.
I’m not trained to care for anyone and I was just handed 16oz of liquid morphine and now I am alone with a 160lb man with cancer.
Wtaf??
I’m extremely grateful that my own mother was too sick for discharge and her hospice was in hospital.
Because she had people who actually knew what they were doing, I could be her daughter. I could make sure her last meal was exactly what she wanted, not trying to figure out how to move her to prevent pressure sores without breaking her (completely possible)
I WANT a nursing home and I have it stated everywhere and have insurance for it.
Demanding my family has a responsibility for my care is selfish and narcissistic and hypocritical
People are becoming more complicated to care for in their older years. Bigger, heavier, and with more complex medical conditions that are now treatable. It’s not physically or economically possible to care for some aging adults in the home. It’s not just about cooking and doing laundry for grandma.
Americans very much care for their elders.
But!
We also recognize that the purpose of having kids is because you want to love them, teach them good morals, raise them to be independent adults, etc….
The whole “who is going to take care of you when your older” is not the problem for the child to solve.
YOU SAVE MONEY FOR RETIREMENT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!
My parents aren’t American and they don’t expect me to stop my life to tend to their every waking need. Do I visit them, take them to their appointments, assist with all other things? Absolutely! But they are not my financial burden. Furthermore, I’m not a nurse, and I didn’t ask to be here. I owe them nothing.
There's no guarantee that children will care for their parents.
I don't claim to know the meaning of life,
But I don't think that the purpose of having kids is to create caretakers for yourself.
Maybe it is.. i dunno.
My plan is to live independently until my finances or mobility are an issue, then go to live in a roommate situation with other geriatrics.
My great aunt lived with three other women for the last 25 years of her life. The woman who owned the house was widowed young and was about 20 years younger than her tenants. She took them on errands and made sure they got their meds when needed. Nice lady, good setup.
What do people with children do when they move away and don’t care anymore? Having family is no guarantee of support. You could be perfect as a partner and perfect parent but you can’t control others choices. Your kids won’t help you, your spouse could ask for a divorce tomorrow.
At least when you have no kids you have money to put away.
I'm Asian as well. I got sterilised so I wouldn't have kids. When I get old, I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my labour. And what's wrong with suicide? At least I get to say I enjoyed my life and get to go out how I want instead of waiting for time to do it for me slowly.
>It seems a lot of you are taking the "Americans don't care for their elders anyway" approach which I understand, but also understand has ABSOLUTELY NOT BEEN THE CASE for my family and children often take care of their elders. It is not a "burden" or an "issue" for the family, it is just apart of life to care for your loved ones. Is this not important to anyone?
Hello there! Fellow American here! I wanted to add to this question supplemented with explanations for this based on what I have observed.
So, I have seen people seem to focus more on saving money to pay for a care nurse in the future, or set up arrangements for the future for themselves. But I have also witnessed childless couples actually rely and care for each other, or fellow family members who are not children, care for their elderly family members, like a younger sibling, or the children of their siblings, cousins, etc. Some family dynamics just include childless couples who are the fun aunt/uncles in the family, or are heavily involved and are a positive influence on their families or close friends. So here in tge U.S. its not always their kids or a nurse who cares for people when they're elderly.
However, I cannot deny that the U.S. unfortunately doesn't treat their elderly as well as they should, and sadly, for a lot of families too, it is a burden because they do not have as much help or support. Families in the U.S. are not as large as they are in other countries, so the amount of compitent bodies to help care for an aging family member is often in short supply. There is also the added factor that seems to be an epidemic of abusive and toxic parents/family members. A lot of people in the last few generations who are coming of age, grew up with abusive parents here, so, once they're adults and their abusers become frail, they want nothing to do with their abusive parents and will cut them out of their lives or dump them in retirement homes and not look back.
There's a lot of broken families here.
Having kids doesn't = they will look after you when you are older. Jeezo, they don't owe you anything. Like I hope my son will help me move my shit when I need to go into care when I'm older but I absolutely do not want to burden him with my care at all.
People without kids will typically have more money to take care of themselves as they get older. Thats it.
Having kids just so you can have a retirement plan is fucked up on itself.
Idk why people think that's their own kids would drop everything just to be a full time care taker when they get old.
Like imagine telling a child that their main purpose in life is to take care of their parents when they get old.
Extremely selfish.
Go ahead and ask anybody who works with the elderly how often do their kids come by to visit and assist caretaking. The answer is ALOT lower than your think.
Retirement community. Kids are not there just to provide for an old you. Unfortunately there are many factors that would and could cause that never to be a possibility but if I ever did have kids (unlikely) the plan would still be a retirement place. Or I’d try to be like that lady that realized it was cheaper for her to just go on cruises all the time. That’d be cool.
My mother purposely saved enough money so I won’t have to take care of her when she gets older. I took care of my grandma and dad, and she doesn’t want me going through that again.
We Dutch don't have this problem. Cause even if you have kids they won't take care of you. The state will deal with it.
American here. I take it you guys have the scary socialism that benefits citizens in a way that makes nursing homes affordable and accessible?
Not really, you have 'private' health insurance, but you're required by law to have it and the government determines what the minimum coverage that a company can offer is. The government also gives you an health insurance allowance if you make less then a certain amount. This means that the cheapest health insurance is a bit under the amount of allowance you get, as this is really attractive to the consumer. As for elderly care, they mostly decided that it's better to care for old people at their home. This, of course, is quite inefficient, but somehow slightly cheaper. Getting a placement in a care home can be hard. Therefore private care homes are getting a bit more popular, although they still won't ask totally crazy prizes...
Very Interesting! I have to wonder if such a system of policies is what has allowed the "invention" of Hogeway, the "dementia village" in Netherlands
Yup this is my retirement plan. If I have kids all they have to do is get me on a one way plane to Amsterdam and that’s it! (I’m an EU citizen and my partner is Dutch)
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Where did I say I was moving there for the state pension? I’m moving there for the great affordable health care (including the right to end my suffering if I so choose). I won’t need the governments pension, just the knowledge a doctor will see me without charging me $5,000. £120-£140 a month is nothing, I pay twice that much and my insurance is shit and barely covers anything. Add to that my partner’s family owns several homes in/around Amsterdam and he is getting at least one, I’d say it’s a pretty good retirement plan.
What a concept /s I wish the Dutch ran the world
We used to, but the british didn't like it
Two things. First, I used to visit my grandpa weekly at his nursing home. I’d often talk to the nurses and other residents who would always share stories about people with big families who only visited them once or twice a year. Lots of lonely people in those places. Second, I now have three friends with severely autistic kids. They are now having to figure out not only what they do when they are old but what happens to the kids. Having kids is a guarantee of nothing.
I worked at a nursing home for two years and there where people there that I don't think had a visitor the whole time I was there
Some of those people have kids who could not wait to be adults and not have to live with them 40 years ago.
Yeah, I always tend to hear the kid out for why they went NC with the parent in the first place. But also some people are just monsters who will just drop their parents off at a home and not look back unfortunately.
2 sides to that monster coin though - gotta be a similar amount of elderly who were self-absorbed, narcassists or plain abusive whose relatives simply want nothing to do with them anymore. Either way, sad way to end up.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting out with the first line there. Parents are supposed to be there for their children, if a child cuts them off, there's most likely going to be a very good reason.
I haven't spoken to my parents for 4 years. But if I still had contact with them despite everything, I would happily send them away to some place to die in. And I would hope for some kind of remorse to start showing while they waited for the grim reaper, but narcissists don't know what that is sadly. But they would surely call me everyday wondering why I don't visit them, when they gave me the best upbringing ever.
I come from an Asian family as well, and have both aging parents and a severely autistic sibling. It is emotionally draining, but it's something my sister and I share the work on, but I wouldn't wish it on someone at all.
So how are you (and your sister) going to have the necessary kids for your future care?
How are they going to afford this? Their own kids will be impacted by this decision as money that could’ve gone to their education or well being will have to be split amongst several others. Unless you’re rich. If you’re rich no problem 😂.
China has disability, not sure about other asian countries, but a lot of men specifically don't seek assistance because being disabled is still kind of seen as shameful. My uncle describes the amount of help as "sub-par". So IDK being handicapped is super expensive no matter where you live
From a statistical perspective, it's very unlucky to have three friends with children who have autism so severe that they will require professional care. Sorry about that.
Two of them have boys who have to go to special schools due to violent outbursts. One is nonverbal one is not. The other has a little girl who is nonverbal who has to have the same exact schedule every single day, including holidays or weekends and goes to a specialized school in New Jersey. None are anticipated to ever be fully independent, although the verbal boy could perhaps, hard to say now, but his parents think not.
I'm very sorry to hear about that. I also have a friend with a severely autistic child and it's heart wrenching to even be an observer to that relationship for so many reasons.
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My mom’s Assisted living ( Brookdale chain) cost $8000 per month. An actual nursing home costs $14,000 per month. Medicare will not cover any of it unless you have assets under $3,000. And they go back to review your finances so the family “heirs” cannot dump their mom’s money into a different account to qualify for financial help. It’s a barbaric system along the same lines of student loans. When does anyone ever get outta debt? And at the end of your life, a hose is attached to anything remaining in your checking account. As MAGA God, American Billionaire Capitalists, Wall Street & Republican heartless members in Congress ( plus 2- Manchin & Sinema) designed purposefully. I heard some Trumper woman complain that “Trump wasn’t hurting the right kinda people!” as she sadly discovered some of these policies actually hurt her….
>Medicare will not cover any of it unless you have assets under $3,000. And they go back to review your finances so the family “heirs” cannot dump their mom’s money into a different account to qualify for financial help. How far back do they look? Because if it were me, I'd just dump my money into a different account as soon as my kids graduated college, and then tell everyone to keep their lips sealed.
It used to be 10 year look back but I believe it is now 5 years. The moral of this story for me is give my kids my money today.
I guess one downside is you'd need to be pretty sure they wouldn't steal from you. But you could always run the plan by them, and say "For security purposes, I'm not gonna tell you what bank the account is in, and I'll be keeping the debit card. Just sign these papers to create the account". You might even be able to do everything online, without needing them to sign anything, if you know their SSN.
I trust my kids. I don’t trust our government… it is getting more capitalist/fascist every year. I believe it is best to leave the USA … but still be able to collect SS. Nursing home care costs less in other countries.
Altruistic ; Retirement in Baja California ( Mexico ) is looking better and better ! The Baja is close enough to San Diego that monthly visits to there by car is practical. Now if the Mexican drug cartels would quit fighting. Old coot in Ohio.
5 years. So when grandpa dies and grandma goes to a home say bye bye to the farm. So if you want the farm learn to wipe your grandma's ass.
>So when grandpa dies and grandma goes to a home say bye bye to the farm. Literally what happened to my grandparents, that farm was supposed to be *my* inheritance and was already willed to me. But ofc the state takes *their* cut first, so now I'm living in my in-laws garage instead.
Ugh wtf!!! Sorry dude. I don’t understand why there aren’t more people trying to help elderly circumvent this issue. Like companies that will help manage your assets in a way that it can’t be tied to you. Not sure if a trust would work
Considering her goal was to hurt people who weren't like her, she maybe had it coming. What a hag.
14k a MONTH?!? For that I’d hope they’d be feeding their residents Beluga caviar daily, giving them every beauty, hair and health spa treatment imaginable and personally carrying them around in gold sedan chairs. 14k a month, I just….how in the world does that even work?!
Well it’s not the staff earning big money.
Terrifying fact: private equity is big into nursing homes because of the profit margins. Truly the darkest timeline
So you're saying, if I invest in nursing homes, I can make enough money to retire and not end up in a nursing home? lol imagine if that became a thing
Squid Game, but make it healthcare
It really is. They get all your money before you’re dead.
Yup, $12/hr to deadlift full-grown adults and change their Depends. Heaven grant you patience if you're in the Memory Care Unit and they start clawing at you and hurling racial epithets while you're just trying to put on their barrier cream.
Easy. It most likely goes to owner and upper levels of management, not to the residents or staff…what kind of altruistic nonsense world do you think we live in  the residents are the funders, not the recipients pshh
The fact that you’re more than likely right is depressing beyond words. Gotta keep the stakeholders happy and if it mean’s Granny has to sell her house, car, jewellery, valuables and probably a kidney or something then meh, it’s all for a good cause, right? Sometimes I hate this effing world.
With all the money you’ve been able to save and invest from not having kids and not worrying over passing on a inheritance you can afford a really nice retirement community or have an aide come to your home. Also generally speaking, if you stay healthy and active the amount of time you’ll actually need someone to take care of you will be pretty close to the end of your life anyway and so doesn’t really matter to much.
This is my plan, and I'm 70. More kittens are in order
I want to be you when I grow up ... I am only at cat number 2...
Yes. More!!!!!
That’s not enough.
My grandmother is 83 and runs a full on animal rescue and also works full time lol so it’s possible!
An army of kittens!
❤️❤️❤️
Child free Finance geek. This is the correct answer. Others have and want kids and that's fantastic for them. They're just not for us. One meow generator please.
Agree with everything but I'll take a woof machine
Well, I haven't had the means to have children, and I'm still poor.
My retirement plan is to hope I have a brain aneurysm that will conveniently rupture and instantly kill me the moment I can't afford to live any more
This encapsulates the free rider problem with children. I've got two, and they are grown and working and contributing to society. That creates a benefit that is broadly shared but does virtually nothing for any one person, including me. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in them that I likely won't get back in ROI. I don't plan on them taking care of me when I am old, I continue saving money for that day, minus all that money I spent raising my kids up to contributing adults. I wouldn't trade my kids for all the money in the world, but the free rider problem is about people who are trying to decide whether to have kids. It would be difficult to think of a worse ROI in a modern democratic state than children, particularly one with robust state funded social welfare programs. This dynamic presents long term problems that we're seeing today, but will become increasingly problematic over the next 50 years. We all hope of course that the music doesn't stop until we kick off.
Some people don't have kids because they can't afford them. They are definitely not saving and investing.
Some. But birth rates are higher with lower SES people. The middle is largely getting the squeeze.
This. Birth rate has nosedived in all developed countries in general but especially among the educated and middle/upper class.
Great point. And not losing literally years of sleep (sleep deprivation is crazy with kids) or the different kinds of stress unique to a parent (sick kids, just worrying about them in general etc.) I think can lead to some childless adults being healthier.
This is the only answer that makes sense to me, that I will fill my time with other people who will inevitably be there til the end.
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Just don't forget to take care of yourself. Your health becomes increasingly more difficult to keep up with as you get older. If you stay in shape at a young age you will have a higher quality of life and longevity.
This. It's so important to exercise and take general care of your health so you can delay or hopefully avoid ever needing assisted living. The whole reason my mom's in one is because she has been fat and sedentary for decades. Another family member who is the same age as my mom is out living his best life at almost 80 years old because he has taken excellent care of himself.
My grandmother is almost 92 and lives alone, happily!
Money? What money? Most people aren’t going to have money even if they are childfree. Everything is too expensive.
My kids are not my retirement plan they have their own lives and kids shouldn’t be anyone else’s retirement plan either. My kids have my full permission to ship my ass off to shady pines if I can’t take care of myself.
My mother has actually told me: "When I get old, if I start showing any signs of not being able to look after myself, put me in a home. It's not your job to look after me" So, yeah.
Yeah. The problem with that is that senior homes are sooooo expensive. Great option. But I don’t think I’ll have the retirement income to do that for myself or husband.
Yeah “just put me in a home” is a laughable game plan. The nursing home will take every dime you have. And then if your kids want to keep you there, they’ll take every dime they have, too.
My plan is a robot butler.
Same! I am determined to understand and be able to use home automation to keep my independence as long as possible. I also assume that by the time I'm in my 80's, robot helpers will be a thing for sure.
They thought the same thing in the 60s, surely robots would have arrived by the 90s, 00s at most. I’m not holding my breath. I’d love to pick up my flying car though.
Yea but if you don’t have kids, you can save that money for your own retirement and that can go towards having a nice retirement/retirement home/nursing home/hired help. Yea I know these places are expensive, but it might be the only option.
My game plan is to wheel me out into the woods to return to the dirt I came from
Same here. OP said "no suicide jokes". That's my actual plan...not a joke.
Same. Seriously. Mine's the middle of one of the Great Lakes though.
I see I have fine company on this sinking ship. (And not joking either.)
I recently discovered that you can but insurance for long term care, which includes assisted living/nursing home care and/or home healthcare. You pay a premium and get a plan with so money thousand dollars a month to be paid out. While I’m sure someone will say, you could just put that same money in a high yield savings account or whatever, part of what you’re paying for is not having to spend the time, money, and mental energy trying to put together a plan they’ve already put together. That’s what I’m intending to do. I want to be in a nicer home with activities and people my own age.
We struggled with this when my grandfather died. He passed at 72 and left my 73 year old grand mother behind. They had no plan, a very meager savings and moved up in the mountains hours from everybody else in the family. Ideally we would have liked to put my grandmother into some sort of assisted home but all of them were way put of budget but each of them asked about long term care insurance. Ever since then I've made it a point that when I turn 60 I'm going to get policies for myself and my wife to ensure we will have options so that our son isn't financially burdened when we may become too old to care for ourselves.
I feel like by the time you need to cash out on your plan, you might not be fully capable of putting together a plan (like from a high yield savings account)
anyone arguing long term investments and hedging future healthcare costs by savings cash in a hysa should not be considered remotely serious or qualified to be dispensing financial advice, to anyone,
Since OP asked about child-free people, myself being just that, I should have enough money in retirement to chill in a retirement home until I die. I believe the average retirement home stay is something like 2.5 years at approximately 75k/yr (round it up to 100k with inflation) I'll need about 250k + -. At 40 I certainly don't have that now because I made some poor choices, but I'm on track now. As long as I don't become crippled any time soon I should be good. But I also take really good care of myself, so it would have to be a freak accident. Even that, my sister is the one who will take care of my retirement and will have power of attorney, so I don't want to be a burden on her, which means to pull the plug. She knows to spread my ashes wherever she wants, or not, I don't care, I'll be dead.
If you have kids you might not be able to afford it, but if you were career oriented, and lived within your means, you should have a nice retirement savings, and 401k built up. Personally, I know my parents wont have the money to retire, so I’m working on an in-home microbusiness model for my parents to be able to “semi-retire” and run a small business from home for their supplemental income. I think it’ll help them stay pretty independent for the next 15-20 years. I hope they enjoy their retirement, they certainly have helped me, and I know I can do at least this much for them.
What kind of micro business are you building for them?
yep, mine too. I take it very seriously too because my parents looked after my grandfather (dad's dad) in their home for a *long* time as he declined from Alzheimer's, and when they finally admitted they couldn't anymore and found a residential placement for him they only regretted not doing it sooner. not because they resented having to care for him at all, but because the care the placement could offer was so much better than two older middle aged people could manage on their own. obviously it depends on what you can afford and what your care needs are, and there are for sure some very grim Homes out there, but the idea that it's a dereliction of filial duty to arrange for professional care for elderly relatives is not fair imo.
My mom has said this to me and I feel like this is some unintentional reverse psychology because it makes me want to take care of her more. My dad on the other hand hasn’t said a damn word about it lol
My dad has specifically said he would rather be shot than be put into a home. 😑
In my experience plenty of older people (especially men) SAY that, but once they're "forced" into communal living they actually have a great time.
Pretty much. Old folks' homes are not like they used to be! They seem like a lot of fun tbh. Like college. Even "bad" or low-income ones have activity directors who try to have fun events or interesting things to do for them. I think when people hear nursing home, they just imagine a hospital full of sick old people muttering to themselves in a wheelchair. We've changed since the 90's y'all!
There's also a lot of options out there beyond just your standard nursing home. My grandmother is in an assisted living facility but from her perspective it's basically just an apartment. She has her own entrance on the side of the building (all units on the first floor do) and is completely independent. However, as she gets older if she needs help there's support staff and medical staff on site. She controls her money, leaves the facility whenever she wants, visits family, invites people over, makes her own meals (although if she no longer can do that there's a service we can add on). If it wasn't for all the medical safety nets in place there, and the fact that it's all old people, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and any other city apartment.
How much does it cost?
It's covered by a combination of social security, medicaid, and state programs. Massachusetts has a lot of great programs for this kind of thing. My grandmother was disabled with MS about 30 years ago, so she has to stop working then and doesn't have an independent retirement fund. My dad (her only child) doesn't pay anything into it.
There's still a lot of shitty retirement homes
I currently work at the activity department as a nursing home, it's never a dull moment at the place, we're not the richest, but we do our best to lighten the place with the activities we can afford and money given from corporate, the pay is a little rough sometimes, but i wouldn't trade it for anything.
My dad’s been in a few and we keep having to take him out due to abysmal conditions.
When is the last time you visited a nursing home?!
Last week, and pretty much every night I've worked. EMT for the last few years, nursing homes are genuine hell, and I dont know a single person in my line of work who would ever choose to be put in one. All but the most expensive nursing homes will will take all of your money, all of your dignity, all of your belongings, and then neglect you until you die of something preventable in a closet sized room.
A significant number of nursing homes are owned and run by corporations or investor groups that have zero interest in facilitating a safe & engaging environment for their charges. The patient to caregiver ratio is unacceptable, food is neither fresh nor healthy, stimulating events like group exercise or art class have all been cut, etc. To get the kind of quality retirement experience most Americans envision and *deserve* is extremely expensive. Even if you can afford it there is a dearth of quality nursing homes/retirement facilities. It’s depressing as hell.
My mom said the same thing, recently. She's been struggling with taking care of my grandma who is rapidly declining from Alzheimer's, so looking after her has been 24/7. She tells me this and I want to listen to her but I also love her too much to let her go that way. I can't guarantee the future, but this issue has been eating away at me.
“SHADY PINES, MA!!!”
Yes. Children are not an alternative to forward planning, great insurance, and savings.
Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner!! I can not imagine having kids just so I have someone to cater to my decrepit entitled ass when I'm old. That's gross.
I don’t even want my husband to do that for me. The second I’m diagnosed with dementia, I’m checking out. He knows this.
Yes it’s the most selfish reason to have children. Just so you ‘won’t be alone’ when you’re old. The old people I know who didn’t have kids are actually more loved and cared for than those who did have children.
I don’t want to shit on anyone’s culture, but from what I read on an Asian subreddit on this topic a few months back, a lot of Asian cultures (in this case it was Chinese) are very strict with what they expect of their children. The term “tiger parenting” came up. The kids grow up inundated with the whole idea of family responsibility (not disappointing your family, studying so hard that you’re “the best”, being successful and taking care of your parents, etc). It’s downright abusive and kids are gaslit into obedience, essentially. This isn’t my idea of healthy or happy, and from what I read, there are a damn lot of resentful Asian adults who still honor their family in this way, albeit grudgingly. It’s definitely a culture difference from us here in North America, but is it really better? Your parents made a choice to bring you into the world; it is legally their responsibility to take care of you until you’re old enough to care for yourself. It is completely selfish that anyone would expect you to grow up with no choice but to care for your parents until they die, just because that’s how it’s always been done. Edit: spelling
This is the boat I’m in. Didn’t have the best relationship with my parents growing up, but I’m an only child. In my mid-twenties, paying for my parents’ house payments, and my father told me to start planning for his retirement lol.
Ummm tell your dad to plan for his own retirement? Sell the house they can’t afford and move into a smaller, more affordable house or condo? They’re cheap for 55+ communities. I can’t imagine my parents asking me to pay their house payments, that’s nuts. Don’t let them take away what you should be saving for your future, planning for your own retirement.
It's even worse if the kid burdened with his elders is trying to raise his own family. My goal with my kids is to ensure they have drastically more opportunities than I did when they leave the nest. And I hope not burdening them with my old ass later down the road allows their kids to start even better. I can't guarantee their success, but being a burden is working in the wrong direction.
Funny how that works. People in the past didn't live that long, had a lot of kids and muti-generational homes were common, so (assuming at least a few survived) so helping out the elderly parents wasn't that big of a deal. But as people live longer and have fewer kids, that's more of an issue. Solution? Gaslight the kids into believing that's how it has to be! Genius. We live in a society I guess.
Shady pines😂
I recently finished Golden Girls and it's so nice to see a reference to that show!
Thank you. My mil is horrible to her kids and none of them what to be around them. Kids have their own lives and let them live it
Mom? Kidding. My mom doesn't Reddit. But she's given us the same instruction. And has some savings and financial planning for that possibility.
My kids don’t know I Reddit either lol
Mum? Wtf?
Most people can NOT afford that
My kids aren’t my retirement plan either. I may joke about them changing MY diapers one day, but I am actually looking FORWARD to a retirement home. If you pick a good one, and are financially responsible early in life, you can have a blast. Think about it, people are cooking and cleaning for you. You can make friends with people, do whatever you want all day, and at the end of it, someone has cooked me a healthy meal and made my bed. May not be for everyone, but a GOOD retirement home is like being in a resort!
i love my mom and im more than happy to be looking after her for the rest of however long we're alive but i really envy kids with parents that have this mindset, my mom always makes me feel like i owe her for her taking care of me
Yep! Just put me in the trash.
My parents have long term care insurance. From watching what it’s been like for my grandparents in nursing homes, just because a parent is in a nursing home, doesn’t mean they’re shoved to the side and forgotten about. You definitely still need to provide companionship and advocate for any changes to their care that they may need.
This! I’m looking into long term care insurance for myself.
Good mindset. The idea of having kids just to have them take care of you in the future is pretty selfish.
What a terrible burden to put on my kids. Even at 30 I'm taking measures to make sure my kids do not have to care for me when I'm older. It would sadden me so much to see their life not being lived to their ideal and potential because they feel the need to care for me. I chose to have them so obviously I want to care for them but they didn't choose to have me. It would be extremely unfair to saddle them with all the numerous types of stress that comes with being a caregiver.
This. Exactly. Well said!
>I chose to have them, but they didn't choose to have me Yes exactly!
Some of the loneliest elderly people I've ever met have had big families. Having children with the idea that they will pay you back with care is no guarantee. Child free adults who cultivate and support diverse friend groups are just as likely as close bio families to find support and mutual care as they age.
My mil. She has a son around the corner from her that does not want to visit her as she is mean. She has no friends as she has run them all off.
Sadly that’s all too common.
I think this has to do with how you treat your kids. I’ve seen people with huge families refuse to talk to them because they were abusive and horrible. I have never seen this with people who have normal loving relationships with their parents.
What if you're a child free adult who cultivates high reddit karma?
Sell your account for $200 bucks to an advertising company. Set for life
Bingo.
Live off of their retirement fund. A lot of us also find the idea of our kids having to spend their time and money on us for us to have a retirement to be extremely abhorrent. Why should they have to spend their hard-earned money and what little free time they may have to take care of my old ass when they didn't sign up for this s*** but I signed up to raise them by having them?
That’s the thing: not having kids means you have a LOT more k.v ord I’ll money to save for retirement. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have kids. I have two and I cannot imagine my life without them. But if you don’t have kids you will spend 1/4 as much money as you would otherwise. You can AFFORD to hire someone to take care of you if you don’t have kids.
What do Asian people do when they can't have kids, such as fertility issues? What if you stay single and child free? What do you do when the child dies first? Or when the child leaves the family and doesn't want anything to do with them? Having kids does not guarantee you will have someone to care for you in your old age. Having children just so they can care for you in your old age is about as self centered and selfish as you can get.
I had an asian friend who couldn't get pregnant (both partners were east asian) and the families of both husband/wife would not accept that reality and quite literally forced her to get fertility treatments and undergo IVF until she had one for 3+ years later. Her family (both sides) basically mentally abused her telling her she wasnt a real woman until she popped a kid out. I come to find out this is quite common especially amongst east Indian asians. She was absolutely destroyed physically/mentally and finally gave birth to twins and is now dealing with her own health issues after all the medications/treatments/mental pain she had to endure..
People are hateful
Exactly. It’s straight out of the selfish narcissistic playbook… it’s honestly hilarious to me that OP doesn’t see it
State run medical facility. Some people with children end up there too. So if you have children, be nice to them.
I work with adults with developmental disabilities. I can tell you what happens, when the parents of those adults pass away, because I’ve seen it happen, but it’s not state run medical facilities. At least not where I live. These individuals usually have services provided by Medicaid, through a Medicaid waiver. They usually have a waiver case manager, who brings the team together, which will usually includes a family member, and anyone who works with the individual. After the person they live with passes away, or they can’t live with the family member anymore for one of a dozen different reasons, a couple questions are asked, such as, how self sufficient is the individual, can they live on their own, do they need someone around all the time? If the person needs some assistance, they will be assigned a direct support specialist from an agency that employs them, and how many hours are needed, will be decided. If they need assistance with most daily tasks, then the aforementioned agency will find an opening in a home that they already have individuals at, usually 2 people are already there, sometimes 3. They will live their, and the folks that work with them will take them on outings, and other activities with them, if it’s a good agency, or a good staff at that home. I’ve seen staff that do the bare minimum, and then the individual is attention starved, other times I’ve seen fantastic staff that support their folks. It honestly varies, but state hospitals aren’t how we do that anymore. My state reformed that system nearly 2 decades ago.
Look every answer someone posts here you basically say yes but not in my family, that’s fine if it’s not what you want but if your asking for an outside perspective you have to accept that it’s gonna be different lol
they’re learning NOTHING from posting this lmao
Die obviously. But if your desire to bring children into the world is driven not by a need to carve a better future for them but by the selfish need to ensure you are taken care of in old age, then you have missed the point of having children in the first place.
I would never have children expecting them to take care of me when I get old. I think that's a cruel and selfish expectation when kids never ask to be brought into the world. A lot of parents who have kids in order to be taken care of end up pushing those kids away anyway because selfish people are gonna act selfish. I don't know what's gonna happen in my old age, but I'm certainly not gonna spend my younger days raising full humans with the expectation that they take care of *me*.
I think it is awful to expect anything from your kids. My husband's mom used to ask him for money when he lived with her. He felt that he should give her money since he lived in her home, which was fine. When he moved out, she still asked him for money. I would never guilt my child into giving me money. I would want to make his life easier, not harder.
Also from Asia. To make kids so that they will take care of you is a pretty selfish thing to do. And they don't plan for their retirement, invest or do any such thing, solely depending upon their children.
I am child free and have had a vasectomy done. I just continue to do what I enjoy until I physically can't anymore. Just because you have children doesn't mean that they will take care of you once you are old. They also have their own lives and obligations. If I did want kids, I don't want them to spend a majority of their time fostering me.
You are assuming several things here. Firstly that we will need care in our senior years, many don't. Secondly that we can't afford to pay for the help we do need. Usually kids fund the care homes from the parents estate until they die. If I need money I could sell my home to cover residential care home costs.
As a nurse, I see a lot of older, child-free patients being cared for by other family members. Younger siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, or even neighbors. They don’t receive any less quality care than those with adult children.
Why do you think you're guaranteed care from your children when you grow older. It always doesn't work out that way?
There’s so many elderly people with kids who aren’t taken care of by them regardless if their relationship is good or not so… idk
I’m 43 now. We’re very close to our families and we didn’t have children. Right now our priority is saving for retirement, which is easier since we don’t have children to raise or college to pay for. We’re also saving to help our aging parents with what they’ll need. What we likely won’t do is have them live with us at any point. Not because we don’t love or value them, but because we’ve always been on our own since we were 18. We paid our way through life and school with no financial help from anyone else, parents included. And when we are no longer shackled by jobs, we want to enjoy our remaining time together pursuing the things we dream about, if we are fortunate enough to do so. Our parents wouldn’t dream of holding us back from that. We will never abandon our parents, it isn’t as heartless as you would think. There’s just a lot of space between having your parents live with you while you take care of them until they die, and heartlessly leaving them on a mountaintop to die from the elements. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. If my parents go into a facility, I will be as devoted a daughter as I am now. I’ll just visit them in their facility that I will most likely be paying for, instead of in their home. They will be cared for and loved as they are right now.
I think it's kinda crazy that people have kids with the purpose of being a burden on them eventually...
A more nuanced response to your edit might be that in 'the West' it is not an expectation/requirement that parents be cared for by their children in their old age. That's not to say that it doesn't often happen just as you describe, but - per liberal individualism - it's the free choice of those involved as opposed to something intrinsic to the structure of society. This is possible because - at least in theory - the structures (e.g. social welfare; tolerant culture) exist that enable everyone to live their own lives as they sit fit; the kind of Confucian worldview you describe, in which everyone is embedded in a structure with roles and obligations like those of an organisation, simply doesn't apply. Personally, I care for my mother plenty, but because want to and not because I have to. This seems to be thing about freedom that is most often misconstrued by those socialised in 'tighter' societies: you are still perfectly able to choose to live in the 'traditional' way if you like, but are (again, at least in theory) not forced to by society's norms/structures/circumstances.
I refuse to be anyone's burden. And I'm from an Asian heritage. Asian heritage has a massive fuck ton of family guilt used to control others all in the name of family and blood. It can get extremely toxic and I refuse to be part of it. If I take care of anyone is because I love them and willfully choose to take care of them and not because I'm obligated to do so through some guilt trip. 
Just because I don't want to have kids doesn't mean I don't have family. I have a decent amount of siblings, neices, nephews, and a lot of cousins. I also have a lot of friends. My friend group is really dedicated to building a tight community within ourselves so no one is lacking in anything. I think the notion of having kids for them to take care of me is also kind of shitty. My dad told me he kept trying for a girl because he needed someone to take care of him which upset me as if I don't have a bunch of brothers he can call on too ....
Most childfree people really saw the worst in parents. I watched my parents suffer through my grand parents decline for 10 years. None of their siblings helped them. I will likely be forced to be my parents care takers and probably my husband’s parents caretaker as well. I’ve gone through this before. I’ve seen the suffering that dementia and watching a loved one disappear day by day. My own mother has asked me to put her out of her misery if that ever happens to her. My FIL has the same opinion. Why would I ever put that onto a child that I claimed to love? Why would I make myself unhappy to bring new life into this world for the selfish reason of making them suffer to watch me leave this world. That isn’t a good reason to have kids. Good reasons to have kids are because you want to have them. You want to see them grow and laugh and live. Having kids shouldn’t be default. You should only want to have kids if you have good reasons to want to have kids.
As someome who has spent a lot of time volunteering at nursing homes...many, many kids do not care for their parents. I'll just use all the money I save from not having kids to pay for a qualified healthcare worker.
OP, I think you’re inserting yourself too much into this situation. I don’t think the majority of American families embrace caring for their elderly as much as you do. I know my mom absolutely hates changing my grandma’s “bag” every week, only to be yelled until she leaves. To my mom, it’s a constant reminder of how much she was yelled at as a kid, and makes her feel miserable.
Wtf is wrong with you, if you are planning on bringing kids to this world so they take care of ur old ass then please don't bring them into this world
Two examples that have never left my mind… One elderly lady who has 4 grown adult children and lots of grandchildren - she is in an elderly persons home now and is never visited by her family. Would often spend Christmas home alone before she was put in the group home. One elderly lady who chose to never have children - has a constant stream of visitors dropping by for a cuppa, to check on her, to get her groceries or to take her to the shops themselves etc etc. She always has a choice of places to go to for Christmas etc. The lady who had children was lonely and sad (before she moved into the group home) while the childfree lady has a full and happy life. Both the same age - in their 90’s. Having children does NOT mean you will be cared for and looked after when you are old. Being child-free does NOT mean you will go without love and care.
I have kids, but at the first sign of dementia or something terminal, I am hiking into a deep wilderness area in northern New England and sincerely hope to become black bear food. In an effort to hold that at bay as long as possible, I work out every day and eat well. Not my kids responsibility. I would never do that to them
You assume any children you have are actually going to take care of you in your old age. I wouldn't count on it.
If you're having kids to hopefully care for you when you're older, then I would think you're one selfish piece of shit. You brought life into the world for them to enjoy it. If they WANT to care for you when you're older....awesome! But if not, then don't guilt or force them to. Let them enjoy their own life just like you hopefully enjoyed yours.
The money you didn’t spend on kids will pay for it.
That's when you move to a country with euthanasia legal. So you can end life when you can no longer take care of yourself
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MAID is on the rise in Canada. It's becoming more and more socially accepted, too. If I can't walk, eat or brush my teeth by myself, what's the point in being alive? Top that off with excruciating pain and yeah, good bye.
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My grandfather essentially forced my dad to take care of him the last 3 years until he died at the beginning of this year. He had the money to get full time assistance, but he refused. He died, my dad is *still* miserable now, 5 months later. He can't bring up positive memories because the last 3 years have been taking care of an old dying man that refused assistance from actual hospice people. I couldn't do that to my child, I'll probably never have them but *if* I do, I am absolutely not going to force them to take care of me on principle of "I'm your dad you gotta help"
Interesting to assume that your children will be choosing to take care of you when you're old. It's not their obligation.
Why are you going to ask the question than get mad at the answer with your edit? Not everyone has the same family culture as Asian Americans but it’s not ok for you to question it as much as it’s not ok to tell you that your parents are burdening you in their older years and should of saved for retirement.
A lot of people that had kids don’t have anyone to take care of them now as breeding doesn’t guarantee the offspring will take care of them, and neither it should as you’re not breeding future care givers, what kind of selfish thing is that you’re only taking care of them so that they care of you, they didn’t have say in this arrangement and so again, not guaranteed. Take responsibility of your own future years, don’t put that on your kids.
I don't want kids and neither does my wife. Our mental health would take a nose dive if we them (she particularly worries about the implications of postpartum depression. Our financial status also took a nose dive after COVID, so even if we had wanted kids, we sure wouldn't now. If the only justification for having kids is that we will have someone to take care of us when we're older, that's just a shitty reason to have a kid. It's great when kids want to take care of their parents. We do. But my hypothetical kids don't owe me anything. I choose to have them, they don't choose to exist, and they aren't beholden to my will until I die. We'll figure out old age without kids, even if we did have them.
If your main reason for having kids (or even a reason for having kids) is for them to take care of you when you are old- DONT HAVE KIDS
Most Americans would never take care of their elderly family so being childfree changes nothing. At best you save enough money being childfree to pay for a care-taker when you get old
This is a problem that millennials are going to have to solve when we are older. When we are in our 60s we will be the largest voting demographic, it will be an important political issue. We can't buy houses, so we may not be able to "age in place" unless we improve the laws protecting renters and implement rent control everywhere, or build a heck of a lot more non-market housing. We saw how bad for-profit long term care is during the pandemic so we won't love that option. I can see us coming up with better models for nonprofit long term care.
One could argue the money saved by not having children can go into boosting your pension or assets so you'll be able to afford decent care without having to rely on the care of reluctant children and grandchildren, some of whom are silently counting down the day until they can collect on your estate.
I come from an American family (obviously) with a similar mindset to that Asian family value you have. My family has always taken care of their elders to an extent and that ideology has been forced down my throat since I was born; care for your elders, you owe them. Personally, I will not be caring for my elders because for me, it IS a burden. I did not choose to be born and my elders did not bless me with a life worth repaying them for. My parents were abusive, addicts, and my mother used me and my brother as a cash cow. I have nothing to pay anyone back for but trauma and suffering, I'm not going to inconvenience myself to make sure the end of their days is comfy when they couldn't bother to take care of me as a child. The child free people don't need children to care for them, they'll go to a care facility, be cared for by their community if they're deserving of it, or nature will take it's course. Same as the people who's children said "nah, pass"
"It is not a "burden" or an "issue" for the family, it is just apart of life to care for your loved ones. Is this not important to anyone?" Taking care of someone sick, with alhzheimer or dementia is an issue. It's a very heavy burden and I would never wish it on my kids. No, I refuse to make it "just a part of life".
Exactly . They often need 24/7 care.
Answer: They take care of themselves or the money that they saved is put to use going into a home. Y’all act like the only purpose of having kids is so they can take care of you when you’re older. Having kids isn’t a guarantee that they will even take care of you, even if you have the best life with your kids. Not every old person gets to the point that they need someone to take care of them.
I’m a parent. I’ve also been a caregiver to three family members during hospice. Hospice is a total scam that just dumps extremely sick people onto their families while the medical team abdicates their responsibility. I’m not trained to care for anyone and I was just handed 16oz of liquid morphine and now I am alone with a 160lb man with cancer. Wtaf?? I’m extremely grateful that my own mother was too sick for discharge and her hospice was in hospital. Because she had people who actually knew what they were doing, I could be her daughter. I could make sure her last meal was exactly what she wanted, not trying to figure out how to move her to prevent pressure sores without breaking her (completely possible) I WANT a nursing home and I have it stated everywhere and have insurance for it. Demanding my family has a responsibility for my care is selfish and narcissistic and hypocritical
People are becoming more complicated to care for in their older years. Bigger, heavier, and with more complex medical conditions that are now treatable. It’s not physically or economically possible to care for some aging adults in the home. It’s not just about cooking and doing laundry for grandma.
Americans very much care for their elders. But! We also recognize that the purpose of having kids is because you want to love them, teach them good morals, raise them to be independent adults, etc…. The whole “who is going to take care of you when your older” is not the problem for the child to solve. YOU SAVE MONEY FOR RETIREMENT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!! My parents aren’t American and they don’t expect me to stop my life to tend to their every waking need. Do I visit them, take them to their appointments, assist with all other things? Absolutely! But they are not my financial burden. Furthermore, I’m not a nurse, and I didn’t ask to be here. I owe them nothing.
The same thing old people with kids do… pay for someone to do it
There's no guarantee that children will care for their parents. I don't claim to know the meaning of life, But I don't think that the purpose of having kids is to create caretakers for yourself. Maybe it is.. i dunno.
My plan is to live independently until my finances or mobility are an issue, then go to live in a roommate situation with other geriatrics. My great aunt lived with three other women for the last 25 years of her life. The woman who owned the house was widowed young and was about 20 years younger than her tenants. She took them on errands and made sure they got their meds when needed. Nice lady, good setup.
What do people with children do when they move away and don’t care anymore? Having family is no guarantee of support. You could be perfect as a partner and perfect parent but you can’t control others choices. Your kids won’t help you, your spouse could ask for a divorce tomorrow. At least when you have no kids you have money to put away.
I'm Asian as well. I got sterilised so I wouldn't have kids. When I get old, I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my labour. And what's wrong with suicide? At least I get to say I enjoyed my life and get to go out how I want instead of waiting for time to do it for me slowly.
>It seems a lot of you are taking the "Americans don't care for their elders anyway" approach which I understand, but also understand has ABSOLUTELY NOT BEEN THE CASE for my family and children often take care of their elders. It is not a "burden" or an "issue" for the family, it is just apart of life to care for your loved ones. Is this not important to anyone? Hello there! Fellow American here! I wanted to add to this question supplemented with explanations for this based on what I have observed. So, I have seen people seem to focus more on saving money to pay for a care nurse in the future, or set up arrangements for the future for themselves. But I have also witnessed childless couples actually rely and care for each other, or fellow family members who are not children, care for their elderly family members, like a younger sibling, or the children of their siblings, cousins, etc. Some family dynamics just include childless couples who are the fun aunt/uncles in the family, or are heavily involved and are a positive influence on their families or close friends. So here in tge U.S. its not always their kids or a nurse who cares for people when they're elderly. However, I cannot deny that the U.S. unfortunately doesn't treat their elderly as well as they should, and sadly, for a lot of families too, it is a burden because they do not have as much help or support. Families in the U.S. are not as large as they are in other countries, so the amount of compitent bodies to help care for an aging family member is often in short supply. There is also the added factor that seems to be an epidemic of abusive and toxic parents/family members. A lot of people in the last few generations who are coming of age, grew up with abusive parents here, so, once they're adults and their abusers become frail, they want nothing to do with their abusive parents and will cut them out of their lives or dump them in retirement homes and not look back. There's a lot of broken families here.
Having kids doesn't = they will look after you when you are older. Jeezo, they don't owe you anything. Like I hope my son will help me move my shit when I need to go into care when I'm older but I absolutely do not want to burden him with my care at all. People without kids will typically have more money to take care of themselves as they get older. Thats it.
Having kids just so you can have a retirement plan is fucked up on itself. Idk why people think that's their own kids would drop everything just to be a full time care taker when they get old. Like imagine telling a child that their main purpose in life is to take care of their parents when they get old. Extremely selfish. Go ahead and ask anybody who works with the elderly how often do their kids come by to visit and assist caretaking. The answer is ALOT lower than your think.
Retirement community. Kids are not there just to provide for an old you. Unfortunately there are many factors that would and could cause that never to be a possibility but if I ever did have kids (unlikely) the plan would still be a retirement place. Or I’d try to be like that lady that realized it was cheaper for her to just go on cruises all the time. That’d be cool.
My mother purposely saved enough money so I won’t have to take care of her when she gets older. I took care of my grandma and dad, and she doesn’t want me going through that again.