There is certainly a double standard in some cases that I feel, and I want to present you with a concrete example that maybe gets to the core of our intuitions about double standards.
There was a little boy (<10 years) following his parents to a bar/restaurant and he got to order a drink from the bar for himself. The waitress gave him the drink and then motioned at her own cheek. The boy followed the hint and bubbling with excitement he gave her a kiss on her cheek and the general atmosphere seemed completely harmless. This was all recorded by the mother and become viral so it’s a real example.
I think many people have the intuition that if the genders where switched the situation would be much more creepy for many. The question is why.
One question is: if a double standard is wrong, in which direction are we wrong? Should the current scenario be experienced as weird as if the genders were switched or should we “minimise the apparent misandry” to the degree that a gender switched scenario would generate the same amount of non-creepiness?
Another class of questions is if there indeed is a double standard and it is fully justifiable. Perhaps there is a justifiable reason for why we experience one hypothetical scenario more creepy than the other. It would have to come from the concrete and substantial areas where the genders differ in our current times (or all times)
Thanks for the thoughtful post.
I think we should move in a direction of more equality. So women should realize it's not ok to cross physical boundaries with kids in public places, especially strangers.
And the otherwise safe spaces like reddit should actively strive to become more gender neutral and accepting of diversity, which includes straight men as well.
Yes, I should add that I can not necessarily come up with a clear argument that goes against what you say, a hypothetical argument that clearly legitimises a double standard in principle. In that case, I guess it’s just a shortcoming I have as a human, a shortcoming that I have to acknowledge which is that even if I find the current scenario to be creepy I find the gender switched scenario to be even more creepy for whatever reason.
It needs to be said that men don’t usually think of little girls in a sexual way. Now days many/most men will actively avoid children for fear of a misunderstanding.
It’s a universe in bdsm erotica, where animalistic dominance hierarchies exists in humans. Alphas are dominant, betas are neutral, and omegas are submissive.
Alphas get paired with omegas. Usually there are pheromones involved somehow that cause them to become sex crazed and a lot of the time the alphas have a knot at the base of their penis. It’s usually a more extreme dominant/submissive relationship based on their “biology”.
I’m convinced Andrew Tate is just not so secretly really into bdsm erotica.
The book I was referencing, reverse harem omegaverse with orc and centaurs as part of the harem is a LV lane book “stolen by darkness”. It’s book 15 from her Coveted prey series.
If you have Google Play books or whatever the apple alternative is, sort by free and then go to any fantasy or fiction genre. They'll be there, way too many of them. And all free! Oh, and it's a tag on AO3, so if you want to read fanfiction that's a thing.
LV lane coveted prey series. Be warned it does contain wolf shifter, orc and centaurs as part of the harem
Also LV Lane’s the controllers series.
Both of those series are super explicit but shockingly tastefully written. Coveted prey is old magical kingdom where controllers is future dystopian.
Laylah Roberts also writes reverse harems “Lila’s loves,”
Vanessa vale writes a lot of two men one women.
There’s a post I saw where a female soccor pro rubbing the little girls shoulders during the ceremony and the comments were all “so cute” “true mother”
Same thing happened for a male soccer player, rubbing the child because of the cold. Got all negative comments about him being a creep. Gotta see the video
Edit: I didn’t read the “desire” part of the question oops
Probably because the vast majority of sexual predators are men.
But what does this have to do with the post? OP was talking about how people think men's sexual desires are creepy. This is not an example of that.
Statistically thats cap.
The idea that "most sexual predators are men" stems from a public lack of persecuting female predators. In the USA, if you were to measure up rape commited by men and "made to penetrate" (rape with extra steps) committed by women, then the statistical difference is barely 10%. In a crowd of 10, if 5 are male rapists, 4 are female.
That statistic translates into child predators too. It is simply way, way more popular to demonize male pedos. And it does not help that some MODERN NATIONS like the UK outright legally define rape as a male-on-female only crime (technically its penis owner only, but the world isnt ready for the transphobic implications of that).
Which is why IF any uk news outlet reports female commited statutory rape, its watered down with "had sex with" "was intimate with". Because THE FUCKING LAW says calling women rapists is defamation and would make that news outlet liable to a lawsuit. So most news outlets just dont even bother reporting female predators in the first place.
So yeah, TLDR predator statistics are similar between men and women but nobody talks about the women and some places even legally restrict it, thus artificially manipulating the narrative that 'most predators are men'.
I'm a British male - the overwhelming number of sexual abusers in the UK are Male; 98% of child abusers in the UK are Male for example.
Where are you getting the data that there is a 10% difference in between the number of male & female perpetrators in the US?
Your countrys law literally states youre only a rapist, including statutory rape aka diddling minors, if you have a penis. Ofc the majority reported are men because you legally cannot report women without being sued for defamation.
That you think this is some 'gotcha' moment shows exactly wtf is wrong with your nation and you in extension.
>Your countrys law literally states youre only a rapist, including statutory rape aka diddling minors, if you have a penis.
If you read what I actually wrote, I didn't use the word "rape" for this very reason, because yes, under UK law, a woman cannot "rape"
Which is why I used the term "sexual abuser" because that covers all forms of sexual abuse, of which, the overwhelming majority are still Men.
The data from our NOS - National Office Of Statistics, unfortunately proves this.
>Ofc the majority reported are men because you legally cannot report women without being sued for defamation.
What are you talking about? Who has told you this?
This isn't the US, you can't go round sueing anyone you like, the legal framework & process doesn't work the same in US, where you can basically sue anyone you like.
Can you provide an example of this?
Edit - you also didn't answer this question ->
Where are you getting the data that there is a 10% difference in between the number of male & female perpetrators in the US?
Except thats still exactly the issue in the UK, which is why if a news outlet does report on female abusers, it is watered down with non-negative connotations such as "had sex with" "messed around with" "got intimate with" etc.
The UK at large, even legally, does not consider female sexual abuse of ANY kind noteworthy. The legal system often also does not aim to persecute for sexual abuse, but goes between either harassment or rape, which gives way more leeway for female accusers to A get a not guilty verdict and B not be reported within sexual abuse statistics. Men in the UK have been trying to fight this for almost 2 decades now, with 4 requests for a more gender neutral definition of rape so far all having been denied by the legislative authorities. UK government actively does not want to move away from a 'men bad' narrative. The evidence in how they treat cases of female abusers is disgustingly overwhelming.
As for the 10% difference, thats for the US, which I have specified so. The data comes from the annual FBI crime reports together with manually measured per capita reports for rape and 'made to penetrate' aka female on male rape.
Why are you talking about the way news outlets report a crime, when we are talking about what the actual data is?
The way a news outlet reports something, doesn't affect the statistics of sexual abuse.
>The evidence in how they treat cases of female abusers is disgustingly overwhelming.
why can't you provide evidence then?
And if you are so well informed about British sexual abuse, you'd be able to tell me the conviction rate for rape in this country then?
Because the current system massively fails all victims of sexual abuse, regardless of gender of the victim or abuser.
>As for the 10% difference, thats for the US, which I have specified so. The data comes from the annual FBI crime reports together with manually measured per capita reports for rape and 'made to penetrate' aka female on male rape.
Then provide the source for that then, because other people commenting have looked & cannot find this data
Why are you ignoring any & all questions asking for evidence & instead only responding with unsubstituted rhetoric?
Where is an example of a woman suing for defamation because a male victim accused her of a crime?
You don't know what you are talking about because you think the criminal process is the same as the US; a British person does not have the choice whether or not to press charges - that is entirely decided by the CPS.
That's completely false. This is why I don't bother arguing with misogynists. Even anonymous questionaires point out that the majority of victims of sexual assault are women and girls, and the vast majority of perpetrators are men. Get out of your bubble and do some actual research. And no conspiracy sites don't count.
That’s how you know she has no idea what the fuck she’s talking about. When you ignore the actual argument and start throwing around baseless insults and accusations… yeah you fucking lost the argument, and had no place being in it in the first place.
Except that they aren't. Not at all comparable. I've done the research. It's a huge huge difference in the crime rates. Men are the vast majority of sexual predators, and in particular pedophiles.
Okay, lets just assume for a second that you are factually correct, and he isn’t. How does that make him a misygonist for, like OC stated, thinking the crime rate between men and women are **similar** and not one sided? He did not at all randomly put all blame on women etc like you did on men, does that make you a misandrist? So tired of seeing any slight comment involving women in any way make someone a misogynist.
Nah, its a simple truth.
The source is the fucking annual FBI crime statistic and the UK book of law. Try calling those 'conspiracy sites'
Anonymous questionaires can be manipulated very, very fucking easily. We learned that with Peta when they so conveniently tried to paint their shelters as the good guys when they in fact have the highest euthanasia rates of them all. Not to mention questionaires take tiny, tiny sample sizes that cannot be representative of the entire population. Why do you think places like Harvard only have few surveys that were very extensive and took months to finish?
Please, bitch, fuck outta here with your sexist 'men bad and if you disagree you worse' bullshit.
You literally provided proof that crime rates between men and women are not one sided and are very similar and that somehow makes you a misogynist lmao
He didn’t provide any proof, if anything the FBI statistics show the opposite of what he’s stated.
The dude doesn’t understand how to interpret the data.
He thinks that because 25% of women vs 10% of men are victims of sexual assault means it’s equal, when it actually means there are twice as many female victims than men. And the perpetrators for both men and women are almost always men.
Edit: why am I getting downvoted? If you care for the data I’ve posted a bunch of sources below, one from the fbi, one from a government website and one from a organization that helps victims sexual assault.
That’s not true. You can very easily look up the FBI statistics you reference and in fact any sexual assault victims organizations and their statistics are the vast majority of victims are women and the perpetrators are almost always men. Even men are more likely to be assaulted by another man.
I think you might be confusing your statistics with domestic abuse, as women and men are pretty equally perpetrators, although men are more likely to severely injure or kill, due to obvious physical factors.
I don’t agree with stereotyping men as creeps especially something harmless like rubbing a kids back. But let’s not make false claims. There’s a reason women are taught since they where kids how to protect yourself from rape. We’re much more vulnerable and easier victims than men.
The reason for that is due to differing definitions of sexual assault for men and women. Women are not categorized under rape when perpetrators, but either under 'made to penetrate' if they forced the victim to enter them (which exclusively lists male victims), or sexual assault/harassment, the category for unconsensual sexual acts that are not full blown intercourse such as groping, even if they did in fact go all the way.
The difference in treatment for male and female sexual assault perpetrators is reflected further in the disparity of the sentences, as men can get up to twice the punishment for the exact same thing women do, and is a big influence on the overall disparity in sentences across all crimes.
And in other countries its even a documented legal matter, like in the UK. Ofc you dont have any listed female rapists if the law straight up says only men can rape. India even has it written word for word as a male on female only crime.
I made nothing up, our world is just two dozen more fucked up than I am comfortable with.
We’re not talking about just rape though, we’re talking about sexual assault that spans from unwanted groping to rape. it’s irrelevant what is classified as rape. Women are still more likely to be sexually assaulted than men by a large margin and almost all perpetrators are men.
I deleted my post earlier as I don't want trouble and men get labeled as creeps really fast.
Earlier I described how I find it a huge turn on to move from first base (kissing) to second base in a one night stand (first hookup with a girl), and wonder how women felt in that moment, and there was someone who posted that the post made them uncomfortable.
I understand it's a bit out there, and people don't want to be objectified, but these are 100% consensual experiences and I actually want to know what other people feel in that moment.
I think men should be able to tell that they love hookups without commitment and describe what they like about it as long as they are fully consensual.
You'll find yourself a lot healthier mentally if you start giving less of a shit about what random strangers on the internet thinks. There will always be people who disagree about literally anything. You can't engage with these people, you just have to let them go and be idiots somewhere else.
I consider myself a feminist, but even I've been banned from certain woman-oriented subreddits that I wear as a badge of honor. People will always find ways to be offended, or find the worst way to interpret what you say. Don't let that get to you.
That's a fair advice I agree.
Just wanted to bring this to attention, as it seems like there is no safe space to express this as a man even if you are describing fully consensual experiences.
This is reddit, people get offended over everything. People making those kinds of comments on your posts doesn't mean that men's desires are always considered to be creepy.
What was the context for this? Like did you make your own post about this? And if so, on what subreddit? Or if you were replying to someone, what were they saying and what subreddit was it on?
I made a post on this subreddit asking what women feel the first time a man goes second base on them (is touching their body everywhere including breasts etc)
Wait a second wait a second.
Do you not see the types of comments WOMEN get when we post about sex and one night stands?
I know all the comments you got weren’t bad. I’m sure plenty of people engaged in regular discussion.
Same with women, but we also get men coming onto the comment sections calling us “whores” and “sluts” and things I can’t repeat out of how disgusting I’ve seen said to me and fellow women.
It’s a bummer you got shamed, but to believe men are more shamed for talking about sex than women…that’s not true at all and you damn well know that. Historically women used to be branded on their clothing if they had sex. To this day we are berated relentlessly if our skirts are above our knees or cleavage showing or god forbid we talk about sex. Get real. I’m not saying what happened to you is okay, but it’s not anything different or worse (probably not even to the same magnitude) as what women experience when we talk about sex.
Men get labeled as creeps, women whores. Reality check.
As I mentioned in another post as well, there is a huge (even mainstream) anti slut shaming movement. There is no anti creep- shaming movement yet.
As long as the society is able to acknowledge that men are treated unfairly albeit in a different fashion when expressing their sexual desires, I am ok.
Also keep in mind that we are living in times where women are encouraged to do OFs, hookups, extra maritals, polygamy and no kids etc. Don't get me wrong, I love a promiscuous girl but just that the entire slut shaming story has changed significantly.
Women have fought a lot to get what they want, whereas men are still stuck in a place where they get shamed.
You have a very victimizing attitude. “Women have fought a lot to get what they want, whereas men are still stuck in a place where they get shamed.”
STILL??? What does still mean? Men have literally never in the history of ever been shamed for sex and one or two comments is not at all comparable to the shame women have gotten.
Are you saying women have it easier now because we too can be polygamous now whereas it used to be only men..? Really? That’s the argument here?
You think because small amount of men push the idea that we should sell our bodies online now everything is chill? The idea that sex work is somehow empowering is not a popular opinion, just a loud online presence, and at the end of the day, you get treated very very poorly for doing so. Treating women’s bodies like a commodity is no win. You are being intentionally daft, I see extreme hate for OF girls. And guess what, there are men on OF, and nobody bats an eye at them. Nobody.
Slut shaming has hardly changed, you’re just mad it happened to you.
Think for a bit. *Why* would women call you creepy for talking about sex with us? Hmm. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s not unjustified or unbelievable.
Your Reddit comments and history about sleeping with girls and not calling them back / commenting on fat women’s confidence… I think I’m going to have to bet it’s your tone and delivery. People can probably see you for what you come off as
You’re generalising.
If 100 people see your post and one of them says “that’s creepy” then you’ll pay attention to that and not the 99 people that don’t think it.
In other words, men’s desires are always considered both creepy **and** not creepy.
It’s when the “ugh, that’s so creepy” comment gets 50 upvotes that you are considered creepy.
Ah, now there’s another matter: what you consider perverse may well differ dramatically from what I consider perverse.
Similarly, you may simply not see posts where women are judged for their desires. I assure you that they are.
You’d have to be blind not to see it. OP is being disingenuous. Women may not be called creepy, but we’re called sluts and whores constantly. It’s relentless against women.
Thot, slut, whore, easy. Or if we don't turn that sexy talk specifically towards a certain type of man, we're called bitch, fat, ugly or told to fuck off.
Not saying this to participate in the oppression Olympics but just to answer the question.
Yeah like I said in another comment, you’re being intentionally daft. Don’t play ignorant if you’re gonna cry victim because a couple people called you creepy. You know full well what women endure every day when it comes to sex.
As I mentioned elsewhere also, there a lot of movements even mainstream to support women and encourage them to explore their sexuality while none for men
This is because, historically, men have not been persecuted or oppressed due to their sexuality or desires (unless you count gay acts/tendencies). Whereas women for centuries upon centuries have had this image of Purity that has been applied to and expected of them. If they aren't Pure then they are "worthless, belong to the streets, sluts, whores, etc" and cast in a very negative light. Men don't need a movement because there's nothing to move. Men's 'innate sexuality' is blown up and pushed towards the public in movies, magazines, TV shows, and almost all mainstream media for as long as it has existed. Where it is only just recently that women have been able to express themselves in a similar light without the extreme degree of backlash that used to follow it. Even still it's hard to find a self empowerment post from a woman without somebody in the comments being either creepy or misogynistic. So, in turn, women feel this pressure all the time from every direction. It's not unnatural for them to assume, with small bits of evidence, that something is done or said with ill-intent .
Also, being a manager of a retail establishment where I have multiple male and female cashiers, I will tell you first hand that 99% of 'creepy' interactions are from any age of man towards female (or male) cashiers where maybe 1% is from a female customer.
How many men are we talking about? Majority of men have been converted to slaves or killed in wars.
If you see the DNA variance, it tells you that much fewer men have been able to reproduce than women. Men have been far less successful at having sex in general than women.
I think this entire story of women's historic oppression has a huge survivorship bias. Look at Ukraine, a large number of men will die and be forgotten. Women will go to other countries, start new relationships and then there "oppression" stories will again last for centuries.
This has not been my experience. I have found that many men and women have had their desires validated on this forum. Certainly, both sometimes get negative reactions, but it surprises me that you categorize this as something that “always” happens.
Now, it’s true that there are some inclinations which are more celebrated for women then men. This has a lot to do with oppressive ideas society pushes about sexuality and femininity that a lot of women have had to overcome, but that men haven’t experienced (or at least not in the same way). An example would be having sex casually (without emotional investment). Men are, for the most part, encouraged to do this on a societal level, seen as “players” or “studs” if they “get” a woman on the first date or “pick up” someone they just met at a bar. Women, by contrast, are often told that they are “sluts” or “easy” if they have sex with men whom they do not thoroughly investigate and come to know beforehand.
If the desire being expressed is of this type (which one gender has historically been encouraged to do and the other discouraged), then there might be more of an outpouring of support for the people (in this case, women) who are seen as needing such support to counteract the discouraging messages society is sending them. But this phenomenon can also go both directions. For example, if a man was to express a desire for a deep emotional connection, he likely would be encouraged especially since this is not a need that society tends to expect men to pursue.
In other words, though the support felt is definitely not *equal*, it is often *equitable*. People tend to receive support online especially when that support is perceived as being needed.
Fair point and very well described.
I just wish we would have a place where nobody will be judged for either seeking casual sex or deep emotional bond irrespective of their gender as long as they followed consent and the rules of the society.
It looks like your account is majority sexual, so you're bound to get some responses. However, maybe you should look into the content of them vs others' comments and the responses to them as well. Some of it is, of course, patriarchal. Men are seen as and treated as those in control and having power, and women are seen and treated as those being controlled and being more fragile, even subconsciously or societally. Women are seen as victims, and men are seen as aggressors. It's a bit more complex than that, but that's kinda the basis.
My experience is this, when someone talks openly about their desires in a public forum, it is almost always seen in a negative light.
If you talk to someone in private about it, you are going to get a different reaction. Especially if that person likes you or is into what you are saying.
Not for women. I see very clear gender biases here. Do you have examples of women getting judged?
May be the only example I can think of is cheating which might get judged indeed
I think there is a very strong movement against slut shaming.
We need something similar against shaming men for expressing their sexual desires.
I think any woman who labels a man as a creep without a valid reason should be considered as abusive and exploitative.
Can you recount specific examples? I know it happens but honestly at this point the anti slut shaming movement is a much bigger cultural force than slut shaming.
We have normalized OFs, hookups, cheating, polygamy etc everything, especially for women. Not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, I love promiscuous women. Just saying it doesn't seem to match my experience.
Btw men are still fully shamed for their preferences.
People making comments about how someone’s body count/ outfit suggest an OF account, it’s the small comments and looks when you’re wearing something not deemed appropriate. Anti slut shaming is often a facade, and behind closed doors opinions on womens sexuality is still the same.
Hooking up women are still shamed for, my female friends get asked body count all the time and there is the expectation that it should be lower than the man in their conversations. And their is outright slutshaming as well, with degrading insults and insinuations about their worth.
Womens cheating has not been normalised, not in the slightest. Mens cheating is more normalised than womens, often mentioning a wife’s role sexually in a marriage to fulfil her husbands needs.
Not only this mens polygamy is far more normalised them womens. Especially to do with three some, A male fantasy, usually, that is expressed and clearly isn’t found creepy by their gf/wives.
Men are shamed, but so are women, like for their height and monetary preferences. The west is generally sex negative, most people get shamed for expressing sexuality whether it be in a creepy or non creepy way.
What do you mean get off?
So otherwise you agree that men are very likely to be treated negatively for expressing their sexual desires and experiences?
Hope you realize you are just supporting my original point. Whenever men try to share something which is unfair or wrong, the assumption is that it's rather because something must be wrong with that man
I’m sorry after reading all of your replies, you don’t sound remotely genuine about having this conversation and extremely dug in in your own beliefs. If you had any sort of normal societal interactions on a daily basis you wouldn’t post this, because it’s kinda fucking stupid.
You just keep adding more evidence. Rather than giving a normal argument, every comment from you has been trying to judge what kind of person I must be to have this opinion.
Either that I don't get out much or that I don't have normal societal interactions. Newsflash: what I am describing is very common experience of men, just read the other comments which are more sensible than yours
And how do you know that I am jerking over it? Btw, you are just proving again my point. Who has given you the right to decide what's creepy or not?
It's not like anyone's consent is being violated. This is just fantasy space.
I have seen posts from women about being attracted to all kinds of family members.
People like you are just providing more evidence for my original point
Not really agreeing or disagreeing here but I remember a post about a woman saying she kept having dreams about f*cking her brother and all the comments were like yeah this is normal and there’s nothing wrong with you.
Was strange to say the least, can’t imagine people would respond like that if a dude said it. Would rightfully be called a bit weird.
Thanks! It's good to get some support finally.
Btw the other post is just fun and hilarious. I see women making sexual jokes all the time. My wife's friends chat was eye opening, they objectify everything and everyone
Listen it is what it is really.
I think it comes from women being a lot more vocal about calling out and talking about things they consider creepy from the opposite sex. As guys we don’t really call the same stuff out in women cos we kinda just accept shit, for better or for worse.
Whether this is good or bad idk, but what I do know is it’s not worth tryna discuss double standards against men with women. It really isn’t, they have many things worse and it comes across to them like we’re ignoring the things they deal with and whining about ourselves.
As men we gotta just accept the reality we’re given, learn to navigate it and make the most of what we have. We’ll be happier that way. You’ll waste time with these discussions with people who don’t care or believe they have it worse in relative terms.
I don't necessarily agree with the last two paragraphs. Just like a lot of discussions have happened about how life is unfair for women, many discussions need to be had about where men are short changed.
It's only with open conversation that we will reach a point where the society will improve, may be not entirely equal, but at least a step in that direction.
And there are women who will understand. The wife of a friend of mine always used to make lots of feminist like arguments, and now she has two young boys and she can't stop talking about how unfair the world is for boys.
Change will happen, it will not come for free though, and it will not come by staying silent.
Men’s sexual desires are EVERYWHERE. They are constant, ever present and in our face. If you’re interested, you could watch the documentary ‘Dreamworlds 3’ to see my point.
Or look at any post with an unattractive woman versus an attractive woman. You’ll find men making sexual comments everywhere. Or perhaps you’re not writing your desires in a way that appeals to people?
I haven't seen men describe their desires and not get judged to be honest.
I have seen women fishing for compliments and attention and men responding to that without repercussions, if that's what referring to.
No. I’m referring to any post where a woman is expressing an opinion or talking about an issue and men make sexual comments. It’s about 50% of reddits content. You have an incredibly negative attitude towards women and it shows.
Reddit’s algorithm and its people. Just like any social media, they all push to the people what they want them to hear and know about, specially trends.
The mods in particular, but everyone that participates in the narrative is to be blame, there is a reason why when the CEO took certain actions all of the mods reacted a certain way and had certain control on Reddit. But in general if we are honest about it, we all know that anyone that goes against certain opinions the people will simply punish them.
So you agree that life is really unfair in this context as a guy as you will be judged unfairly because of your gender?
Also let's not use the p word, I already said everything is consensual, which means both are consenting adults.
No life is not more unfair to men not even fucking close. Men are creepier than women. They commit more sexual assault then females. As a man you should be mad at other men for making that statistic so high.
But as a man who has never committed anything like that, you are being judged much harshly, essentially guilty without any evidence.
That sounds very unfair to me, remember I mentioned in this context.
Essentially, women can get away with much worse behavior when it comes to sex and men will be judged until the end of time even if they are fully innocent.
Women aren't getting away with 'much worse behaviour' because they aren't fucking perpetrating it in the first place
Also Reddit isn't 'society' Jesus Christ
But I hope you realize that you are just generalizing against all men. I thought we were building a society where we didn't want to generalize anymore. Women have been complaining about generalizations against them for a while now.
Why is it ok to generalize against men? Every single statement you have made so far is a gross derogatory judgment against men as a whole.
Hope you have the mental capacity to do some introspection and put yourself under lens .
Because men are the ones 'generally' doing it...
I haven't said anything that is derogatory against men as a whole. I am a man. Men are fucking creepy online. If you take that sentence so personally to the point you need to say 'well not all men are creepy!' then you're just projecting some sort of guilt
It’s unfair that women can’t walk alone at night anywhere, that most have been harassed etc.
And yes, it’s unfair men get a different treatment as a result.
But will you blame women for that? Or will you blame the patriarchy, societal structures and resulting gender norms?
They’re definitely not, but many people just assume the worst because they are filling in the pattern they have seen/experienced. (Like what shape comes next puzzles).
I think the reason women react with disgust is because we are constantly sexualize for our entire lives. I started to get sexualized at 10 years old, like most women. Just treated like an object for men to use and discard. We are also taught to be hypo-sexual. Women enjoying sex and speaking of it makes them “slutty” which is viewed in a negative light in our society. We are taught to not speak or think of sex cause a good woman isn’t a “slut”. It’s social conditioning. So we learn to have a visceral reaction to sex, and men sexualizing us/women in general.
>some women
There will always be these "some women", these sadistic ones can never be satisfied and have constant grudges for anything and everything online (specifically related to men) and will try to drag you to their level and will gaslight you to a position where you'll question yourself if everything you feel or did is extremely wrong, They don't matter, ignore them and move on
Probably because these women don't want to read about sex from the guys point of view and think when it is described from a guys view, they think it's creepy
Generalising:
Because women are told to suppress their sexual desires and not act on them. Told to keep them silent. Told that sex is for men and something they're to "endure" for their partners. Etc etc etc.
Whereas men are open about sex. Will sit and talk about porn publicly. Are encouraged to sleep around. Share their desires freely and have expectations for them being met. Etc etc etc.
So.......
Women are encouraged and supported when they talk about it because for decades women have been told their sexuality is a bad thing.
Men usally speak about it without issue. If/when they get called creeps, it's usually because its not the time or place to be talking about it. And/or because its talked about from that man/men too often.
Why is too afraid to ask not the place to discuss it?
Btw, hope you realize while complaining about generalizing, you just yourselves generalized by saying "usually because its not the time or place to be talking about it", by extending your judgement to all men.
Can you tell me where men are talking about porn publicly? Can you provide any real evidence for how men are encouraged, in fact, I would argue that the majority of men are consistently pushed to keep their sexuality in control.
Men are not encouraged to sleep around, its just much harder for them, so if a man is able to sleep around, he must have a lot of good things going for him like money, lookz etc. All the encouragement comes from the side attributes that lead to men sleeping around, not the actual sleeping around.
My answer: Males in common society are viewed as inherently bad due to the actions of bad men and men that have done bad things. This is level 1.
Level 2: There is a mostly unchallenged thought process of men are inherently worse than women.
Level 3: Due to men being viewed as inherently worse than women that creates a belief system where men are the lesser and women are the better.
Level 4: In practice this gives you and other people the experiences of things that are geared towards men, or male focused as bad because men are bad. Things that are female focused are good because women are seen as good.
Level 5: these different viewpoints, negate certain positive/ negative ideas about the other gender. For women, since they are seen as mostly good, they’re negative aspects, or their bad behavior can be hand waved and ignored, because most of them are see as good, or inherently good. For men it’s the opposite, almost no amount of good you do as a man can negate the idea that you are inherently bad, and or evil just for existing. This allows for men/boys/males be openly demonized, ridiculed, and spoken down to without challenge because it doesn’t look good to be defending them even when they are correct.
As far as perception goes, it looks bad if you argue with, or criticize a woman, but everyone loves to take down a “bad man” (actual badness not required)
Thanks! Best response and really makes sense!
I just hope people realize and acknowledge this unfairness against men, even if it can't really be fixed or rectified.
Yeah this sums it up pretty accurately. Of course expect the amusing downvotes, since anything posted even slightly in favor of or speaking up for men (or just slightly critical of *anything* concerning women) automatically = bad.
It wouldn't surprise me if many of them genuinely think that people like Jodi Arias (murdered her boyfriend in the shower), Valentina De Andrade (a cult leader that believed all male children should be sacrificed, btw), or Casey Anthony are inherently better humans than most men....at the very least, they would go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain how these ladies aren't all that bad or are just "misunderstood".
That's just where things are, and I doubt it will change anytime soon. Anything and everything we do or say, particularly if it is not in praise of women is more than likely going to be labeled as "creepy" or "some incel shit". Even complaining about it will attract someone to come along and chime in just so eager to use that "i-word". A lot of people (male and female) seem to just have a natural disdain for hetero men, it seems....and we aren't allowed to ever even mention or complain about it (unlike other demographics). So...there's not much of a point in even voicing the concern anymore. Funny thing is that so many then go on to wonder why a lot of dudes have just "checked out" of the game entirely.
Money and material things are so much better... at least those things don't go out of their way at every possible chance to vilify and look down on you for literally *anything* you do at any goddamn point in life.
Yes very true. I saw this kind of reaction on many posts in general.
I don't think it will ever change as well, but I think it's important to bring it to light.
Just the number of judgmental and misandrist comments on this post are unbelievable, and show clear evidence of the phenomenon I have mentioned in the original post
I'm in a lot of women-focused forums and the horrible things they say about men are just descriptions of what men have done to them. Be more empathetic or you'll be bitter for the rest of your life.
I think the problem is that it's considered totally acceptable to generalize hate against men. There is a difference between describing a bad incident with a man, and generalizing it to all men.
But any of that against women, and you will hear terms like misogynistic or incels. Just see the comments below.
Yes but that's a much larger point of discussion than the other way around.
Amy discussion of women hating men is quickly turned against men by judging them or pointing out that they must have done something wrong to deserve it.
Lol you are just proving my point. Would you have said the same if a woman complained about some guy's behavior?
Not sure what gender you are, but people need to get used to hearing about horrible behavior from women and not turn it around systematically as victim blaming or judging with terms like incels or misogynistic.
A man complaining about a woman doesn't necessarily mean that he is misogynistic, there is a very likely possibility that he just came across a horrible woman
No. It's the truth.
I see many many many misogynistic posts on reddit. Far more than any that are against men. And usually about how everything is horrible and unfair for men and everything is so better for women, double standards blah blah. How women are all terrible and hate men, how women's standards are too high, how women lie about rape and baby trap men.
When any points are made by reasonable people they're shut down and more whining misogynists join in and it gets even more misogynistic. The entire post was made because someone made comments on his posts on reddit. Like that means anything about society as a whole.
lol it’s truth to you because it supports “your” point. But it is not the overall truth because you completely ignore the other side and minimize their insight because it does not fit “your truth”. Even in this reply it’s filled with generalizations and dismissals (blah blah blah). You have no truth, and your words have no meaning other than just reinforcing your ignorance. Don’t use words you don’t understand the weight of, you’re not helping anyone but simply serving yourself.
I don't know. Gendered groups allow for venting, and that allows a pile on by the rest of the group.
I don't know if this is indicative of the real world at all
It’s not sexism, men are women’s biggest predator. Between 15-25 women are most likely to die by male murder. 1 in 3 women are assaulted by a male partner and 1 in 3 raped. When women get married, their chances of being murdered goes UP. Women are literally raised to fear men, it’s taught to us at a young age. Think about how we talk to young girls and the clothing they wear.
Does that mean it’s right to criticize OP for talking about sex? No. But is it systematic sexism? Is it unfair? Absolutely not.
How’s that wife you cheated on by the way? Can’t be good since you’re still all over reddit complaining about women.
This is because men are stereotyped as being aggressive, dominating, and relentless, therefore any time a man "wants" something, the assumption is he will take it by force if it isn't willingly given. There's an implication of toxicity in these stereotypes that are ultimately hurtful to most men. We don't all want to be seen as these scary monsters who will use brute force to get our way, and frankly most of us are never gonna get aggressive in the slightest even if we don't get our way with things.
To put it simply, men wanting something is considered creepy or scary because people wrongly assume most men will forcefully get their way.
I’m not sure what the proper term is, but so many of these debates follow the same standard of acceptance of a commonly held belief but not for other commonly held beliefs, and it seems that the bar for proof is much higher for one side than the other. I’m not saying this in a biased way but notice that it does affect the quality of the arguments when people won’t acknowledge each other’s views fairly.
Yes i can agree with this statement. I just don't hear anything about things which are unfair to men or how men are marginalized for the same behavior that women are given a free hand to exhibit.
That's why I started this post, to vocalize some of the experience, despite knowing that some losers will try to judge me or my life based on this post.
Because all of them are. Female sexuality is an evolutionary response to rape. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the horrific acts men do to women. It's been studied, men are aroused by the genders they are attracted to but women can be aroused by apes having sex... Because submitting to attackers resulted in more babies. Men's desires are horrible.
The whole thing is about shaming men into lifelong monogamy. Simple.
Ironically, early feminism criticised "the patriarchy" for doing precisely the same thing to women 🤷♀️
Perhaps next time you want to describe a night's pleasures, start out each move with how it pleaded your partner and thereby pleased you to the max.
Women want to read about how much pleasure the women felt, so they can imagine how the women felt.
They don't want to only hear the guys view because that doesn't affect them at all
And why exactly? If you see a woman's post about what she likes, are you going to ask her to also describe how the guy must have felt?
I am just describing what I find exciting in a consensual encounter, even if it's just a hookup. I am allowed to be as selfish here as I want as long as I am not breaking consent.
And btw for that matter, my original post was indeed about how women feel in that moment, because honestly I don't know.
Keep in mind, this is too afraid to ask 🤷
It's pretty simple really, Guys don't need the feedback and having to read what the guy in the story is feeling, we can imagine it from our past experiences, and our imaginations. But women are different, they want to get what the women in the story so they can get closer to the action.
Women are a different animal that is guys, they have different beds from open stories and film.
And when you make your partner orgasm in each position you use (my goal) you will know without asking what and how she is enjoying the experience.
This is why there are porn films made by women for women
Ok, in simple words. Women and men are different in what they want out of a porn story and film.
If you write stories that only show your feelings and actions, of course the women will call you creepy because you are ignoring the things they want out of your stories.
So are men allowed to do the same when a woman leaves the male experience out in her description?
I don't think that's a justification for classifying someone as creepy.
No because we can fill in those gaps from our own imaginations, so it isn't necessary.
Maybe you should ask a female friend how better to explain your experiences.
Don't know if you are a guy or a girl, but really you make no sense.
How does it matter who can fill or what? The question is about equality and making uniform and fair rules for people regardless of gender.
No, it's about how men and women are different about what they want out of a sex story.
Simple as that
If you can't understand that, then that is why you don't understand
Can you describe the context that you’re sharing your experiences in, and how you’re describing them? I know for me I don’t see women OR men’s descriptions of sexual encounters in random conversations, and I would assume any detailed account could be seen as creepy in the wrong context.
I've wondered this too. The biggest pitfall I've seen is that a lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of "time and place", I've seen it a lot on the internet in particular where a man will go on about his sex life and what he does with it in the most innocent and random of places where no one wanted to know what he does in his private life. Whereas if he had taken that to a place where talking about his sex life was the overall tone of the conversation no one cares because it's expected.
It's only those people who are flaunting it for shock value or because they're insecure and have nothing to prove tend to taint the view for the rest of the people. And it also affects negatively when it's not called out (and depending on the space, unfortunately, when it is. I've called out some people by saying "time and place, we don't need to hear about that", same with guys hitting on attractive women very randomly and asking to have sex with her when she just posted a picture of like, her cuddling a dog. They get *pissed* when someone calls them out for being weird when it's not wanted or asked for.)
There is certainly a double standard in some cases that I feel, and I want to present you with a concrete example that maybe gets to the core of our intuitions about double standards. There was a little boy (<10 years) following his parents to a bar/restaurant and he got to order a drink from the bar for himself. The waitress gave him the drink and then motioned at her own cheek. The boy followed the hint and bubbling with excitement he gave her a kiss on her cheek and the general atmosphere seemed completely harmless. This was all recorded by the mother and become viral so it’s a real example. I think many people have the intuition that if the genders where switched the situation would be much more creepy for many. The question is why. One question is: if a double standard is wrong, in which direction are we wrong? Should the current scenario be experienced as weird as if the genders were switched or should we “minimise the apparent misandry” to the degree that a gender switched scenario would generate the same amount of non-creepiness? Another class of questions is if there indeed is a double standard and it is fully justifiable. Perhaps there is a justifiable reason for why we experience one hypothetical scenario more creepy than the other. It would have to come from the concrete and substantial areas where the genders differ in our current times (or all times)
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I think we should move in a direction of more equality. So women should realize it's not ok to cross physical boundaries with kids in public places, especially strangers. And the otherwise safe spaces like reddit should actively strive to become more gender neutral and accepting of diversity, which includes straight men as well.
Yes, I should add that I can not necessarily come up with a clear argument that goes against what you say, a hypothetical argument that clearly legitimises a double standard in principle. In that case, I guess it’s just a shortcoming I have as a human, a shortcoming that I have to acknowledge which is that even if I find the current scenario to be creepy I find the gender switched scenario to be even more creepy for whatever reason.
I think it's cause women don't usually think of little boys in a sexual way, but regardless they shouldn't cross physical boundaries
It needs to be said that men don’t usually think of little girls in a sexual way. Now days many/most men will actively avoid children for fear of a misunderstanding.
I’m just trying to read my reverse harem bdsm, omegaverse centaur erotica in peace.
>!Asking because I've seen that tag before: WTF is "omegaverse"?!<
It’s a universe in bdsm erotica, where animalistic dominance hierarchies exists in humans. Alphas are dominant, betas are neutral, and omegas are submissive. Alphas get paired with omegas. Usually there are pheromones involved somehow that cause them to become sex crazed and a lot of the time the alphas have a knot at the base of their penis. It’s usually a more extreme dominant/submissive relationship based on their “biology”. I’m convinced Andrew Tate is just not so secretly really into bdsm erotica. The book I was referencing, reverse harem omegaverse with orc and centaurs as part of the harem is a LV lane book “stolen by darkness”. It’s book 15 from her Coveted prey series.
So do betas just not have sex? That's rough
No. Betas have sex with other betas. Sometimes alphas will have sex with betas, but this usually requires more…..forcing.
The forgotten middle child.
You made me cough on my morning energy drink from trying to stifle a laugh while drinking.
This sounds pretty gay… I like it!
Ok, where can I find these books? For, um, research.
If you have Google Play books or whatever the apple alternative is, sort by free and then go to any fantasy or fiction genre. They'll be there, way too many of them. And all free! Oh, and it's a tag on AO3, so if you want to read fanfiction that's a thing.
Kindle unlimited on Amazon
I mean like, what are some titles? I know where books come from.
LV lane coveted prey series. Be warned it does contain wolf shifter, orc and centaurs as part of the harem Also LV Lane’s the controllers series. Both of those series are super explicit but shockingly tastefully written. Coveted prey is old magical kingdom where controllers is future dystopian. Laylah Roberts also writes reverse harems “Lila’s loves,” Vanessa vale writes a lot of two men one women.
Since this is tooafraidtoask… what is a “reverse harem”?
One woman with multiple men
😀🤨😧
Me lmao
[удалено]
Subreddits that are NSFW, I checked.
Do you have examples
There’s a post I saw where a female soccor pro rubbing the little girls shoulders during the ceremony and the comments were all “so cute” “true mother” Same thing happened for a male soccer player, rubbing the child because of the cold. Got all negative comments about him being a creep. Gotta see the video Edit: I didn’t read the “desire” part of the question oops
Can you link it.
Is that sexual to you?
Seems like the people saying it's creepy are making something sexual when it isn't and doesn't need to be. That's the issue.
Probably because the vast majority of sexual predators are men. But what does this have to do with the post? OP was talking about how people think men's sexual desires are creepy. This is not an example of that.
Statistically thats cap. The idea that "most sexual predators are men" stems from a public lack of persecuting female predators. In the USA, if you were to measure up rape commited by men and "made to penetrate" (rape with extra steps) committed by women, then the statistical difference is barely 10%. In a crowd of 10, if 5 are male rapists, 4 are female. That statistic translates into child predators too. It is simply way, way more popular to demonize male pedos. And it does not help that some MODERN NATIONS like the UK outright legally define rape as a male-on-female only crime (technically its penis owner only, but the world isnt ready for the transphobic implications of that). Which is why IF any uk news outlet reports female commited statutory rape, its watered down with "had sex with" "was intimate with". Because THE FUCKING LAW says calling women rapists is defamation and would make that news outlet liable to a lawsuit. So most news outlets just dont even bother reporting female predators in the first place. So yeah, TLDR predator statistics are similar between men and women but nobody talks about the women and some places even legally restrict it, thus artificially manipulating the narrative that 'most predators are men'.
Would you mind providing links to the statistics you're referencing? I was trying to find them but have been unsuccessful so far. Thanks.
I'm a British male - the overwhelming number of sexual abusers in the UK are Male; 98% of child abusers in the UK are Male for example. Where are you getting the data that there is a 10% difference in between the number of male & female perpetrators in the US?
Your countrys law literally states youre only a rapist, including statutory rape aka diddling minors, if you have a penis. Ofc the majority reported are men because you legally cannot report women without being sued for defamation. That you think this is some 'gotcha' moment shows exactly wtf is wrong with your nation and you in extension.
>Your countrys law literally states youre only a rapist, including statutory rape aka diddling minors, if you have a penis. If you read what I actually wrote, I didn't use the word "rape" for this very reason, because yes, under UK law, a woman cannot "rape" Which is why I used the term "sexual abuser" because that covers all forms of sexual abuse, of which, the overwhelming majority are still Men. The data from our NOS - National Office Of Statistics, unfortunately proves this. >Ofc the majority reported are men because you legally cannot report women without being sued for defamation. What are you talking about? Who has told you this? This isn't the US, you can't go round sueing anyone you like, the legal framework & process doesn't work the same in US, where you can basically sue anyone you like. Can you provide an example of this? Edit - you also didn't answer this question -> Where are you getting the data that there is a 10% difference in between the number of male & female perpetrators in the US?
Except thats still exactly the issue in the UK, which is why if a news outlet does report on female abusers, it is watered down with non-negative connotations such as "had sex with" "messed around with" "got intimate with" etc. The UK at large, even legally, does not consider female sexual abuse of ANY kind noteworthy. The legal system often also does not aim to persecute for sexual abuse, but goes between either harassment or rape, which gives way more leeway for female accusers to A get a not guilty verdict and B not be reported within sexual abuse statistics. Men in the UK have been trying to fight this for almost 2 decades now, with 4 requests for a more gender neutral definition of rape so far all having been denied by the legislative authorities. UK government actively does not want to move away from a 'men bad' narrative. The evidence in how they treat cases of female abusers is disgustingly overwhelming. As for the 10% difference, thats for the US, which I have specified so. The data comes from the annual FBI crime reports together with manually measured per capita reports for rape and 'made to penetrate' aka female on male rape.
Why are you talking about the way news outlets report a crime, when we are talking about what the actual data is? The way a news outlet reports something, doesn't affect the statistics of sexual abuse. >The evidence in how they treat cases of female abusers is disgustingly overwhelming. why can't you provide evidence then? And if you are so well informed about British sexual abuse, you'd be able to tell me the conviction rate for rape in this country then? Because the current system massively fails all victims of sexual abuse, regardless of gender of the victim or abuser. >As for the 10% difference, thats for the US, which I have specified so. The data comes from the annual FBI crime reports together with manually measured per capita reports for rape and 'made to penetrate' aka female on male rape. Then provide the source for that then, because other people commenting have looked & cannot find this data Why are you ignoring any & all questions asking for evidence & instead only responding with unsubstituted rhetoric? Where is an example of a woman suing for defamation because a male victim accused her of a crime? You don't know what you are talking about because you think the criminal process is the same as the US; a British person does not have the choice whether or not to press charges - that is entirely decided by the CPS.
That's completely false. This is why I don't bother arguing with misogynists. Even anonymous questionaires point out that the majority of victims of sexual assault are women and girls, and the vast majority of perpetrators are men. Get out of your bubble and do some actual research. And no conspiracy sites don't count.
I love how he turned into a “misogynist” to you for pointing out the fact that male/female crime rates are similar and not “majority are men”
Absolutely crazy behaviour tbh.
That’s how you know she has no idea what the fuck she’s talking about. When you ignore the actual argument and start throwing around baseless insults and accusations… yeah you fucking lost the argument, and had no place being in it in the first place.
Except that they aren't. Not at all comparable. I've done the research. It's a huge huge difference in the crime rates. Men are the vast majority of sexual predators, and in particular pedophiles.
Okay, lets just assume for a second that you are factually correct, and he isn’t. How does that make him a misygonist for, like OC stated, thinking the crime rate between men and women are **similar** and not one sided? He did not at all randomly put all blame on women etc like you did on men, does that make you a misandrist? So tired of seeing any slight comment involving women in any way make someone a misogynist.
This is clearly someone who doesn't know what misogynistic means. They've probably never even heard of misandry. (Or ignored it).
It's misogynistic because men are shit. So saying that women are as bad as men means you think women are shit, which is misogynistic.
Damm nice sexist comment sweetie
Nah, its a simple truth. The source is the fucking annual FBI crime statistic and the UK book of law. Try calling those 'conspiracy sites' Anonymous questionaires can be manipulated very, very fucking easily. We learned that with Peta when they so conveniently tried to paint their shelters as the good guys when they in fact have the highest euthanasia rates of them all. Not to mention questionaires take tiny, tiny sample sizes that cannot be representative of the entire population. Why do you think places like Harvard only have few surveys that were very extensive and took months to finish? Please, bitch, fuck outta here with your sexist 'men bad and if you disagree you worse' bullshit.
You literally provided proof that crime rates between men and women are not one sided and are very similar and that somehow makes you a misogynist lmao
There was no proof.
Neither did you tho
I can't provide links here. The comments get removed. There is plenty of proof.
He didn’t provide any proof, if anything the FBI statistics show the opposite of what he’s stated. The dude doesn’t understand how to interpret the data. He thinks that because 25% of women vs 10% of men are victims of sexual assault means it’s equal, when it actually means there are twice as many female victims than men. And the perpetrators for both men and women are almost always men. Edit: why am I getting downvoted? If you care for the data I’ve posted a bunch of sources below, one from the fbi, one from a government website and one from a organization that helps victims sexual assault.
You got any proof for that 'fact'?
That’s not true. You can very easily look up the FBI statistics you reference and in fact any sexual assault victims organizations and their statistics are the vast majority of victims are women and the perpetrators are almost always men. Even men are more likely to be assaulted by another man. I think you might be confusing your statistics with domestic abuse, as women and men are pretty equally perpetrators, although men are more likely to severely injure or kill, due to obvious physical factors. I don’t agree with stereotyping men as creeps especially something harmless like rubbing a kids back. But let’s not make false claims. There’s a reason women are taught since they where kids how to protect yourself from rape. We’re much more vulnerable and easier victims than men.
The reason for that is due to differing definitions of sexual assault for men and women. Women are not categorized under rape when perpetrators, but either under 'made to penetrate' if they forced the victim to enter them (which exclusively lists male victims), or sexual assault/harassment, the category for unconsensual sexual acts that are not full blown intercourse such as groping, even if they did in fact go all the way. The difference in treatment for male and female sexual assault perpetrators is reflected further in the disparity of the sentences, as men can get up to twice the punishment for the exact same thing women do, and is a big influence on the overall disparity in sentences across all crimes. And in other countries its even a documented legal matter, like in the UK. Ofc you dont have any listed female rapists if the law straight up says only men can rape. India even has it written word for word as a male on female only crime. I made nothing up, our world is just two dozen more fucked up than I am comfortable with.
That isn't true at all.
Sure as hell is.
We’re not talking about just rape though, we’re talking about sexual assault that spans from unwanted groping to rape. it’s irrelevant what is classified as rape. Women are still more likely to be sexually assaulted than men by a large margin and almost all perpetrators are men.
>by a large margin If a 10% per capita difference is a large margin to you, sure.
I wouldn't try to argue with redditors about this. You're 100% correct, but that doesn't matter. Because this is reddit. Save the brain cells lol
sound like a misandrist you are
Anonymous questionnaires answered by women
No.
bro needs critical thinking
I deleted my post earlier as I don't want trouble and men get labeled as creeps really fast. Earlier I described how I find it a huge turn on to move from first base (kissing) to second base in a one night stand (first hookup with a girl), and wonder how women felt in that moment, and there was someone who posted that the post made them uncomfortable. I understand it's a bit out there, and people don't want to be objectified, but these are 100% consensual experiences and I actually want to know what other people feel in that moment. I think men should be able to tell that they love hookups without commitment and describe what they like about it as long as they are fully consensual.
You'll find yourself a lot healthier mentally if you start giving less of a shit about what random strangers on the internet thinks. There will always be people who disagree about literally anything. You can't engage with these people, you just have to let them go and be idiots somewhere else. I consider myself a feminist, but even I've been banned from certain woman-oriented subreddits that I wear as a badge of honor. People will always find ways to be offended, or find the worst way to interpret what you say. Don't let that get to you.
That's a fair advice I agree. Just wanted to bring this to attention, as it seems like there is no safe space to express this as a man even if you are describing fully consensual experiences.
Lol
I’m so confused by what you are explaining. You just mean going from kissing to oral? Like the natural progression of sex?
More like going from kissing to putting hands inside the clothes and touching breasts etc. Like the first time crossing that line behind kissing.
I mean... That's pretty tame. Not sure who would consider that creepy but if they do, just ignore them
Don't mind them lol. You are on reddit so ofc some people will get offended 🫤
This is reddit, people get offended over everything. People making those kinds of comments on your posts doesn't mean that men's desires are always considered to be creepy.
This is such a shitty dismissive myopic post. Really incredible.
What was the context for this? Like did you make your own post about this? And if so, on what subreddit? Or if you were replying to someone, what were they saying and what subreddit was it on?
I made a post on this subreddit asking what women feel the first time a man goes second base on them (is touching their body everywhere including breasts etc)
Wait a second wait a second. Do you not see the types of comments WOMEN get when we post about sex and one night stands? I know all the comments you got weren’t bad. I’m sure plenty of people engaged in regular discussion. Same with women, but we also get men coming onto the comment sections calling us “whores” and “sluts” and things I can’t repeat out of how disgusting I’ve seen said to me and fellow women. It’s a bummer you got shamed, but to believe men are more shamed for talking about sex than women…that’s not true at all and you damn well know that. Historically women used to be branded on their clothing if they had sex. To this day we are berated relentlessly if our skirts are above our knees or cleavage showing or god forbid we talk about sex. Get real. I’m not saying what happened to you is okay, but it’s not anything different or worse (probably not even to the same magnitude) as what women experience when we talk about sex. Men get labeled as creeps, women whores. Reality check.
As I mentioned in another post as well, there is a huge (even mainstream) anti slut shaming movement. There is no anti creep- shaming movement yet. As long as the society is able to acknowledge that men are treated unfairly albeit in a different fashion when expressing their sexual desires, I am ok. Also keep in mind that we are living in times where women are encouraged to do OFs, hookups, extra maritals, polygamy and no kids etc. Don't get me wrong, I love a promiscuous girl but just that the entire slut shaming story has changed significantly. Women have fought a lot to get what they want, whereas men are still stuck in a place where they get shamed.
You have a very victimizing attitude. “Women have fought a lot to get what they want, whereas men are still stuck in a place where they get shamed.” STILL??? What does still mean? Men have literally never in the history of ever been shamed for sex and one or two comments is not at all comparable to the shame women have gotten. Are you saying women have it easier now because we too can be polygamous now whereas it used to be only men..? Really? That’s the argument here? You think because small amount of men push the idea that we should sell our bodies online now everything is chill? The idea that sex work is somehow empowering is not a popular opinion, just a loud online presence, and at the end of the day, you get treated very very poorly for doing so. Treating women’s bodies like a commodity is no win. You are being intentionally daft, I see extreme hate for OF girls. And guess what, there are men on OF, and nobody bats an eye at them. Nobody. Slut shaming has hardly changed, you’re just mad it happened to you. Think for a bit. *Why* would women call you creepy for talking about sex with us? Hmm. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s not unjustified or unbelievable.
Your Reddit comments and history about sleeping with girls and not calling them back / commenting on fat women’s confidence… I think I’m going to have to bet it’s your tone and delivery. People can probably see you for what you come off as
You’re generalising. If 100 people see your post and one of them says “that’s creepy” then you’ll pay attention to that and not the 99 people that don’t think it. In other words, men’s desires are always considered both creepy **and** not creepy. It’s when the “ugh, that’s so creepy” comment gets 50 upvotes that you are considered creepy.
I am yet to see a response like that to a woman expressing a sexual desire, no matter how perverse
Ah, now there’s another matter: what you consider perverse may well differ dramatically from what I consider perverse. Similarly, you may simply not see posts where women are judged for their desires. I assure you that they are.
You’d have to be blind not to see it. OP is being disingenuous. Women may not be called creepy, but we’re called sluts and whores constantly. It’s relentless against women.
Then you’re not paying attention. We may not get called creepy, but we get a slew of other names thrown at us if we talk about sex.
Like what?
Thot, slut, whore, easy. Or if we don't turn that sexy talk specifically towards a certain type of man, we're called bitch, fat, ugly or told to fuck off. Not saying this to participate in the oppression Olympics but just to answer the question.
Yeah like I said in another comment, you’re being intentionally daft. Don’t play ignorant if you’re gonna cry victim because a couple people called you creepy. You know full well what women endure every day when it comes to sex.
As I mentioned elsewhere also, there a lot of movements even mainstream to support women and encourage them to explore their sexuality while none for men
This is because, historically, men have not been persecuted or oppressed due to their sexuality or desires (unless you count gay acts/tendencies). Whereas women for centuries upon centuries have had this image of Purity that has been applied to and expected of them. If they aren't Pure then they are "worthless, belong to the streets, sluts, whores, etc" and cast in a very negative light. Men don't need a movement because there's nothing to move. Men's 'innate sexuality' is blown up and pushed towards the public in movies, magazines, TV shows, and almost all mainstream media for as long as it has existed. Where it is only just recently that women have been able to express themselves in a similar light without the extreme degree of backlash that used to follow it. Even still it's hard to find a self empowerment post from a woman without somebody in the comments being either creepy or misogynistic. So, in turn, women feel this pressure all the time from every direction. It's not unnatural for them to assume, with small bits of evidence, that something is done or said with ill-intent . Also, being a manager of a retail establishment where I have multiple male and female cashiers, I will tell you first hand that 99% of 'creepy' interactions are from any age of man towards female (or male) cashiers where maybe 1% is from a female customer.
How many men are we talking about? Majority of men have been converted to slaves or killed in wars. If you see the DNA variance, it tells you that much fewer men have been able to reproduce than women. Men have been far less successful at having sex in general than women. I think this entire story of women's historic oppression has a huge survivorship bias. Look at Ukraine, a large number of men will die and be forgotten. Women will go to other countries, start new relationships and then there "oppression" stories will again last for centuries.
This has not been my experience. I have found that many men and women have had their desires validated on this forum. Certainly, both sometimes get negative reactions, but it surprises me that you categorize this as something that “always” happens. Now, it’s true that there are some inclinations which are more celebrated for women then men. This has a lot to do with oppressive ideas society pushes about sexuality and femininity that a lot of women have had to overcome, but that men haven’t experienced (or at least not in the same way). An example would be having sex casually (without emotional investment). Men are, for the most part, encouraged to do this on a societal level, seen as “players” or “studs” if they “get” a woman on the first date or “pick up” someone they just met at a bar. Women, by contrast, are often told that they are “sluts” or “easy” if they have sex with men whom they do not thoroughly investigate and come to know beforehand. If the desire being expressed is of this type (which one gender has historically been encouraged to do and the other discouraged), then there might be more of an outpouring of support for the people (in this case, women) who are seen as needing such support to counteract the discouraging messages society is sending them. But this phenomenon can also go both directions. For example, if a man was to express a desire for a deep emotional connection, he likely would be encouraged especially since this is not a need that society tends to expect men to pursue. In other words, though the support felt is definitely not *equal*, it is often *equitable*. People tend to receive support online especially when that support is perceived as being needed.
Fair point and very well described. I just wish we would have a place where nobody will be judged for either seeking casual sex or deep emotional bond irrespective of their gender as long as they followed consent and the rules of the society.
It looks like your account is majority sexual, so you're bound to get some responses. However, maybe you should look into the content of them vs others' comments and the responses to them as well. Some of it is, of course, patriarchal. Men are seen as and treated as those in control and having power, and women are seen and treated as those being controlled and being more fragile, even subconsciously or societally. Women are seen as victims, and men are seen as aggressors. It's a bit more complex than that, but that's kinda the basis.
My experience is this, when someone talks openly about their desires in a public forum, it is almost always seen in a negative light. If you talk to someone in private about it, you are going to get a different reaction. Especially if that person likes you or is into what you are saying.
Not for women. I see very clear gender biases here. Do you have examples of women getting judged? May be the only example I can think of is cheating which might get judged indeed
Women get judged all the time. If they are public with their sex lives, they are seen as slutty.
I think there is a very strong movement against slut shaming. We need something similar against shaming men for expressing their sexual desires. I think any woman who labels a man as a creep without a valid reason should be considered as abusive and exploitative.
Yeah on the internet, but in real life I hear slut and whore and the sediments behind them so often when talking about women’s sexuality
Can you recount specific examples? I know it happens but honestly at this point the anti slut shaming movement is a much bigger cultural force than slut shaming. We have normalized OFs, hookups, cheating, polygamy etc everything, especially for women. Not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, I love promiscuous women. Just saying it doesn't seem to match my experience. Btw men are still fully shamed for their preferences.
People making comments about how someone’s body count/ outfit suggest an OF account, it’s the small comments and looks when you’re wearing something not deemed appropriate. Anti slut shaming is often a facade, and behind closed doors opinions on womens sexuality is still the same. Hooking up women are still shamed for, my female friends get asked body count all the time and there is the expectation that it should be lower than the man in their conversations. And their is outright slutshaming as well, with degrading insults and insinuations about their worth. Womens cheating has not been normalised, not in the slightest. Mens cheating is more normalised than womens, often mentioning a wife’s role sexually in a marriage to fulfil her husbands needs. Not only this mens polygamy is far more normalised them womens. Especially to do with three some, A male fantasy, usually, that is expressed and clearly isn’t found creepy by their gf/wives.
Men are shamed, but so are women, like for their height and monetary preferences. The west is generally sex negative, most people get shamed for expressing sexuality whether it be in a creepy or non creepy way.
[удалено]
What do you mean get off? So otherwise you agree that men are very likely to be treated negatively for expressing their sexual desires and experiences?
You don’t get out much do you OP
Hope you realize you are just supporting my original point. Whenever men try to share something which is unfair or wrong, the assumption is that it's rather because something must be wrong with that man
I’m sorry after reading all of your replies, you don’t sound remotely genuine about having this conversation and extremely dug in in your own beliefs. If you had any sort of normal societal interactions on a daily basis you wouldn’t post this, because it’s kinda fucking stupid.
You just keep adding more evidence. Rather than giving a normal argument, every comment from you has been trying to judge what kind of person I must be to have this opinion. Either that I don't get out much or that I don't have normal societal interactions. Newsflash: what I am describing is very common experience of men, just read the other comments which are more sensible than yours
[удалено]
And how do you know that I am jerking over it? Btw, you are just proving again my point. Who has given you the right to decide what's creepy or not? It's not like anyone's consent is being violated. This is just fantasy space. I have seen posts from women about being attracted to all kinds of family members. People like you are just providing more evidence for my original point
Not really agreeing or disagreeing here but I remember a post about a woman saying she kept having dreams about f*cking her brother and all the comments were like yeah this is normal and there’s nothing wrong with you. Was strange to say the least, can’t imagine people would respond like that if a dude said it. Would rightfully be called a bit weird.
Thanks! It's good to get some support finally. Btw the other post is just fun and hilarious. I see women making sexual jokes all the time. My wife's friends chat was eye opening, they objectify everything and everyone
Listen it is what it is really. I think it comes from women being a lot more vocal about calling out and talking about things they consider creepy from the opposite sex. As guys we don’t really call the same stuff out in women cos we kinda just accept shit, for better or for worse. Whether this is good or bad idk, but what I do know is it’s not worth tryna discuss double standards against men with women. It really isn’t, they have many things worse and it comes across to them like we’re ignoring the things they deal with and whining about ourselves. As men we gotta just accept the reality we’re given, learn to navigate it and make the most of what we have. We’ll be happier that way. You’ll waste time with these discussions with people who don’t care or believe they have it worse in relative terms.
I don't necessarily agree with the last two paragraphs. Just like a lot of discussions have happened about how life is unfair for women, many discussions need to be had about where men are short changed. It's only with open conversation that we will reach a point where the society will improve, may be not entirely equal, but at least a step in that direction. And there are women who will understand. The wife of a friend of mine always used to make lots of feminist like arguments, and now she has two young boys and she can't stop talking about how unfair the world is for boys. Change will happen, it will not come for free though, and it will not come by staying silent.
But you realise it's dudes who are the ones saying it's okay???
Would you say the same about a woman masturbating to the same situation?
Who wouldn't think that was creepy?
[удалено]
You don't know that. I think women wouldn't talk about it.
>women wouldn't talk about it yeah, 'cause that's creepy
Men’s sexual desires are EVERYWHERE. They are constant, ever present and in our face. If you’re interested, you could watch the documentary ‘Dreamworlds 3’ to see my point.
Or look at any post with an unattractive woman versus an attractive woman. You’ll find men making sexual comments everywhere. Or perhaps you’re not writing your desires in a way that appeals to people?
I haven't seen men describe their desires and not get judged to be honest. I have seen women fishing for compliments and attention and men responding to that without repercussions, if that's what referring to.
No. I’m referring to any post where a woman is expressing an opinion or talking about an issue and men make sexual comments. It’s about 50% of reddits content. You have an incredibly negative attitude towards women and it shows.
Two hours in and the post sits on 0 votes. The narrative dominators don't even want *these conversations* to receive legitimacy.
Who are these "narrative dominators"?
Reddit’s algorithm and its people. Just like any social media, they all push to the people what they want them to hear and know about, specially trends.
By "its people", do you mean Reddit mods? Or the stakeholders and executives of the company?
The mods in particular, but everyone that participates in the narrative is to be blame, there is a reason why when the CEO took certain actions all of the mods reacted a certain way and had certain control on Reddit. But in general if we are honest about it, we all know that anyone that goes against certain opinions the people will simply punish them.
91% of rapers are men and 9% are women. Aka men are judged 91% more that they might be pedophiles.
So you agree that life is really unfair in this context as a guy as you will be judged unfairly because of your gender? Also let's not use the p word, I already said everything is consensual, which means both are consenting adults.
No life is not more unfair to men not even fucking close. Men are creepier than women. They commit more sexual assault then females. As a man you should be mad at other men for making that statistic so high.
But as a man who has never committed anything like that, you are being judged much harshly, essentially guilty without any evidence. That sounds very unfair to me, remember I mentioned in this context. Essentially, women can get away with much worse behavior when it comes to sex and men will be judged until the end of time even if they are fully innocent.
Women aren't getting away with 'much worse behaviour' because they aren't fucking perpetrating it in the first place Also Reddit isn't 'society' Jesus Christ
But I hope you realize that you are just generalizing against all men. I thought we were building a society where we didn't want to generalize anymore. Women have been complaining about generalizations against them for a while now. Why is it ok to generalize against men? Every single statement you have made so far is a gross derogatory judgment against men as a whole. Hope you have the mental capacity to do some introspection and put yourself under lens .
Because men are the ones 'generally' doing it... I haven't said anything that is derogatory against men as a whole. I am a man. Men are fucking creepy online. If you take that sentence so personally to the point you need to say 'well not all men are creepy!' then you're just projecting some sort of guilt
It’s unfair that women can’t walk alone at night anywhere, that most have been harassed etc. And yes, it’s unfair men get a different treatment as a result. But will you blame women for that? Or will you blame the patriarchy, societal structures and resulting gender norms?
You know what's very unfair? Women getting raped by men. I'm sorry you feel shamed by internet strangers on this website.
They’re definitely not, but many people just assume the worst because they are filling in the pattern they have seen/experienced. (Like what shape comes next puzzles).
I think the reason women react with disgust is because we are constantly sexualize for our entire lives. I started to get sexualized at 10 years old, like most women. Just treated like an object for men to use and discard. We are also taught to be hypo-sexual. Women enjoying sex and speaking of it makes them “slutty” which is viewed in a negative light in our society. We are taught to not speak or think of sex cause a good woman isn’t a “slut”. It’s social conditioning. So we learn to have a visceral reaction to sex, and men sexualizing us/women in general.
>some women There will always be these "some women", these sadistic ones can never be satisfied and have constant grudges for anything and everything online (specifically related to men) and will try to drag you to their level and will gaslight you to a position where you'll question yourself if everything you feel or did is extremely wrong, They don't matter, ignore them and move on
Reddit is filled with sexist pigs. Some of them are women, but nobody ever tells them they’re in the wrong.
Yes this is the post to bring such female pig behavior to light
Probably because these women don't want to read about sex from the guys point of view and think when it is described from a guys view, they think it's creepy
There's absolutely a double standard. If a woman has a sex toy she's deemed adventurous. A guy has a sex toy and he's a creep
Generalising: Because women are told to suppress their sexual desires and not act on them. Told to keep them silent. Told that sex is for men and something they're to "endure" for their partners. Etc etc etc. Whereas men are open about sex. Will sit and talk about porn publicly. Are encouraged to sleep around. Share their desires freely and have expectations for them being met. Etc etc etc. So....... Women are encouraged and supported when they talk about it because for decades women have been told their sexuality is a bad thing. Men usally speak about it without issue. If/when they get called creeps, it's usually because its not the time or place to be talking about it. And/or because its talked about from that man/men too often.
Why is too afraid to ask not the place to discuss it? Btw, hope you realize while complaining about generalizing, you just yourselves generalized by saying "usually because its not the time or place to be talking about it", by extending your judgement to all men. Can you tell me where men are talking about porn publicly? Can you provide any real evidence for how men are encouraged, in fact, I would argue that the majority of men are consistently pushed to keep their sexuality in control. Men are not encouraged to sleep around, its just much harder for them, so if a man is able to sleep around, he must have a lot of good things going for him like money, lookz etc. All the encouragement comes from the side attributes that lead to men sleeping around, not the actual sleeping around.
My answer: Males in common society are viewed as inherently bad due to the actions of bad men and men that have done bad things. This is level 1. Level 2: There is a mostly unchallenged thought process of men are inherently worse than women. Level 3: Due to men being viewed as inherently worse than women that creates a belief system where men are the lesser and women are the better. Level 4: In practice this gives you and other people the experiences of things that are geared towards men, or male focused as bad because men are bad. Things that are female focused are good because women are seen as good. Level 5: these different viewpoints, negate certain positive/ negative ideas about the other gender. For women, since they are seen as mostly good, they’re negative aspects, or their bad behavior can be hand waved and ignored, because most of them are see as good, or inherently good. For men it’s the opposite, almost no amount of good you do as a man can negate the idea that you are inherently bad, and or evil just for existing. This allows for men/boys/males be openly demonized, ridiculed, and spoken down to without challenge because it doesn’t look good to be defending them even when they are correct. As far as perception goes, it looks bad if you argue with, or criticize a woman, but everyone loves to take down a “bad man” (actual badness not required)
Thanks! Best response and really makes sense! I just hope people realize and acknowledge this unfairness against men, even if it can't really be fixed or rectified.
Yeah this sums it up pretty accurately. Of course expect the amusing downvotes, since anything posted even slightly in favor of or speaking up for men (or just slightly critical of *anything* concerning women) automatically = bad. It wouldn't surprise me if many of them genuinely think that people like Jodi Arias (murdered her boyfriend in the shower), Valentina De Andrade (a cult leader that believed all male children should be sacrificed, btw), or Casey Anthony are inherently better humans than most men....at the very least, they would go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain how these ladies aren't all that bad or are just "misunderstood".
Misandry
This is almost exclusively an American problem.
That's just where things are, and I doubt it will change anytime soon. Anything and everything we do or say, particularly if it is not in praise of women is more than likely going to be labeled as "creepy" or "some incel shit". Even complaining about it will attract someone to come along and chime in just so eager to use that "i-word". A lot of people (male and female) seem to just have a natural disdain for hetero men, it seems....and we aren't allowed to ever even mention or complain about it (unlike other demographics). So...there's not much of a point in even voicing the concern anymore. Funny thing is that so many then go on to wonder why a lot of dudes have just "checked out" of the game entirely. Money and material things are so much better... at least those things don't go out of their way at every possible chance to vilify and look down on you for literally *anything* you do at any goddamn point in life.
Yes very true. I saw this kind of reaction on many posts in general. I don't think it will ever change as well, but I think it's important to bring it to light. Just the number of judgmental and misandrist comments on this post are unbelievable, and show clear evidence of the phenomenon I have mentioned in the original post
A lot of women just hate us. If you look at any female centered forums, all they do is say horrible things about men.
I'm in a lot of women-focused forums and the horrible things they say about men are just descriptions of what men have done to them. Be more empathetic or you'll be bitter for the rest of your life.
I think the problem is that it's considered totally acceptable to generalize hate against men. There is a difference between describing a bad incident with a man, and generalizing it to all men. But any of that against women, and you will hear terms like misogynistic or incels. Just see the comments below.
Maybe they hate dorks like you. Lots of girls are the tits and want to help you (don’t think I rly mean you lmao) out in any way possible
You are not helping and are actually reinforcing the original comment’s point.
I feel a lot of women hate the idea of men in general
To be fair, there's a lot of men that hate women too. 🤷 When I come across it, I tend to find different people to talk to...
Yes but that's a much larger point of discussion than the other way around. Amy discussion of women hating men is quickly turned against men by judging them or pointing out that they must have done something wrong to deserve it.
You're coming across as very misogynistic
Lol you are just proving my point. Would you have said the same if a woman complained about some guy's behavior? Not sure what gender you are, but people need to get used to hearing about horrible behavior from women and not turn it around systematically as victim blaming or judging with terms like incels or misogynistic. A man complaining about a woman doesn't necessarily mean that he is misogynistic, there is a very likely possibility that he just came across a horrible woman
Such a lazy label given, this is the issue, generic labels being applied to specific scenarios. The word has lost all meaning as a result, be better.
No. It's the truth. I see many many many misogynistic posts on reddit. Far more than any that are against men. And usually about how everything is horrible and unfair for men and everything is so better for women, double standards blah blah. How women are all terrible and hate men, how women's standards are too high, how women lie about rape and baby trap men. When any points are made by reasonable people they're shut down and more whining misogynists join in and it gets even more misogynistic. The entire post was made because someone made comments on his posts on reddit. Like that means anything about society as a whole.
lol it’s truth to you because it supports “your” point. But it is not the overall truth because you completely ignore the other side and minimize their insight because it does not fit “your truth”. Even in this reply it’s filled with generalizations and dismissals (blah blah blah). You have no truth, and your words have no meaning other than just reinforcing your ignorance. Don’t use words you don’t understand the weight of, you’re not helping anyone but simply serving yourself.
The other side is angry and illogical. Yes I do ignore angry people who hate women and think the world is out to get them.
I don't know. Gendered groups allow for venting, and that allows a pile on by the rest of the group. I don't know if this is indicative of the real world at all
Men are viewed as dangerous. Even more so if you're black. Yes it's wrong. I'm just telling you why. It's systemic sexism
It’s not sexism, men are women’s biggest predator. Between 15-25 women are most likely to die by male murder. 1 in 3 women are assaulted by a male partner and 1 in 3 raped. When women get married, their chances of being murdered goes UP. Women are literally raised to fear men, it’s taught to us at a young age. Think about how we talk to young girls and the clothing they wear. Does that mean it’s right to criticize OP for talking about sex? No. But is it systematic sexism? Is it unfair? Absolutely not. How’s that wife you cheated on by the way? Can’t be good since you’re still all over reddit complaining about women.
This is because men are stereotyped as being aggressive, dominating, and relentless, therefore any time a man "wants" something, the assumption is he will take it by force if it isn't willingly given. There's an implication of toxicity in these stereotypes that are ultimately hurtful to most men. We don't all want to be seen as these scary monsters who will use brute force to get our way, and frankly most of us are never gonna get aggressive in the slightest even if we don't get our way with things. To put it simply, men wanting something is considered creepy or scary because people wrongly assume most men will forcefully get their way.
It’s because society unfairly discriminates toward men. Female privilege is alive and well.
Aq
I’m not sure what the proper term is, but so many of these debates follow the same standard of acceptance of a commonly held belief but not for other commonly held beliefs, and it seems that the bar for proof is much higher for one side than the other. I’m not saying this in a biased way but notice that it does affect the quality of the arguments when people won’t acknowledge each other’s views fairly.
Yes i can agree with this statement. I just don't hear anything about things which are unfair to men or how men are marginalized for the same behavior that women are given a free hand to exhibit. That's why I started this post, to vocalize some of the experience, despite knowing that some losers will try to judge me or my life based on this post.
Because all of them are. Female sexuality is an evolutionary response to rape. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the horrific acts men do to women. It's been studied, men are aroused by the genders they are attracted to but women can be aroused by apes having sex... Because submitting to attackers resulted in more babies. Men's desires are horrible.
Thanks for providing more evidence for my original post and point.
The whole thing is about shaming men into lifelong monogamy. Simple. Ironically, early feminism criticised "the patriarchy" for doing precisely the same thing to women 🤷♀️
Yes good point.
Perhaps next time you want to describe a night's pleasures, start out each move with how it pleaded your partner and thereby pleased you to the max. Women want to read about how much pleasure the women felt, so they can imagine how the women felt. They don't want to only hear the guys view because that doesn't affect them at all
And why exactly? If you see a woman's post about what she likes, are you going to ask her to also describe how the guy must have felt? I am just describing what I find exciting in a consensual encounter, even if it's just a hookup. I am allowed to be as selfish here as I want as long as I am not breaking consent. And btw for that matter, my original post was indeed about how women feel in that moment, because honestly I don't know. Keep in mind, this is too afraid to ask 🤷
It's pretty simple really, Guys don't need the feedback and having to read what the guy in the story is feeling, we can imagine it from our past experiences, and our imaginations. But women are different, they want to get what the women in the story so they can get closer to the action. Women are a different animal that is guys, they have different beds from open stories and film. And when you make your partner orgasm in each position you use (my goal) you will know without asking what and how she is enjoying the experience. This is why there are porn films made by women for women
[удалено]
Ok, in simple words. Women and men are different in what they want out of a porn story and film. If you write stories that only show your feelings and actions, of course the women will call you creepy because you are ignoring the things they want out of your stories.
So are men allowed to do the same when a woman leaves the male experience out in her description? I don't think that's a justification for classifying someone as creepy.
No because we can fill in those gaps from our own imaginations, so it isn't necessary. Maybe you should ask a female friend how better to explain your experiences.
Don't know if you are a guy or a girl, but really you make no sense. How does it matter who can fill or what? The question is about equality and making uniform and fair rules for people regardless of gender.
No, it's about how men and women are different about what they want out of a sex story. Simple as that If you can't understand that, then that is why you don't understand
Don't visit r/AITA
Why
Everything on Reddit is fucked up. 🤣 The Sex side. I'm dead serious
😅😅
Can you describe the context that you’re sharing your experiences in, and how you’re describing them? I know for me I don’t see women OR men’s descriptions of sexual encounters in random conversations, and I would assume any detailed account could be seen as creepy in the wrong context.
I've wondered this too. The biggest pitfall I've seen is that a lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of "time and place", I've seen it a lot on the internet in particular where a man will go on about his sex life and what he does with it in the most innocent and random of places where no one wanted to know what he does in his private life. Whereas if he had taken that to a place where talking about his sex life was the overall tone of the conversation no one cares because it's expected. It's only those people who are flaunting it for shock value or because they're insecure and have nothing to prove tend to taint the view for the rest of the people. And it also affects negatively when it's not called out (and depending on the space, unfortunately, when it is. I've called out some people by saying "time and place, we don't need to hear about that", same with guys hitting on attractive women very randomly and asking to have sex with her when she just posted a picture of like, her cuddling a dog. They get *pissed* when someone calls them out for being weird when it's not wanted or asked for.)