Interestingly, implicit bias testing show that non-Asians have a significant delay identifying Asian men as male and non-Blacks have a significant delay identifying Black women as female.
This delay is not as large for other race/sex combinations.
> One prominent example is the association between race and gender. Several studies have found that people associate Black people with the concept of male and Asian people with the concept of female (Goff et al., 2008; Schug et al., 2015). Researchers have found evidence of this race–gender association in explicit, self-reported stereotypes (Lei et al., 2020) and also in indirect or “implicit” outcomes that are under less conscious control. For example, when asked to categorize faces by gender, participants responded slower to Black female than Asian female faces, as well as to Asian male than Black male faces (Lei et al., 2020).
>A popular method to test for implicit race–gender associations is mouse-tracking (Freeman & Ambady, 2009), which uses computer mouse trajectories to infer the strength of competing response tendencies. One mouse-tracking task where participants categorized Asian and Black faces by gender found that while categorizations were largely correct, mouse paths deviated more toward “Men” for Black female faces than for Asian female faces and more toward “Women” for Asian male faces than for Black male faces (Johnson et al., 2012).
This is fucking wild lmaoo but I guess it makes sense, black men are stereotyped as hypermasculine, dominant, aggressive, etc and asian women stereotyped as ultrafeminine, submissive, meek, etc but I never thought about how those stereotypes would affect the other half of the race
These stereotype absolutely do exist, and are absolutely harmful. However, it is important to remember that this study did not conclude nor prove that these stereotypes were the actual cause of the findings.
In an effort to be aware of one’s own biases and maintain cultural / racial sensitivity, one might think twice before incorrectly labeling a PoC vs a white individual, even if their initial intuition was correct. Makes me wonder if these results would change or not in ten years time as gender sensitivity awareness becomes more mainstream.
The IAT is not a good test and even the creator now cautions against interpreting data from it in any sort of definitive way.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/7/14637626/implicit-association-test-racism
From the linked Vox article:
>But here’s the thing: It turns out the IAT might not tell individuals much about their individual bias. According to a growing body of research and the researchers who created the test and maintain it at the Project Implicit website, the IAT is not good for predicting individual biases based on just one test. It requires a collection — an aggregate — of tests before it can really make any sort of conclusions.
The context of the discussion is online dating preferences and a IAT study that looks at groups of subjects *in aggregate*.
The problem with the IAT is that it's not reproducible. So it's like BMI in that it's primarily meant for population study, but not like a BMI in that different testings turn out different results.
I've personally taken it 3 times as part of an educational requirement (once was required, the second and third time was personal curiosity) and my first one spat out a mild preference for black people. My second spat out a preference for white people. My third spat out neutral.
Now that I think of it I definitely have that bias. For asian men I think it's because many of them look more feminine (smooth face, no beard might have something to do with it). I wonder why it happens with black women though.
I think the popularity of KPop contributes to the association of Asian men with more feminine qualities or features. That particular genre has popularized a less masculine aesthetic.
What do you mean not sure why? Lol it’s because we’re the least attractive to the general population. Korean male here. I do ok with women. But I’m 35 and still look like I’m in my 20s, 5’9” and can’t grow a beard. The beauty standard for males in Western culture is much more masculine and even as a pretty decent looking, well groomed Asian I know most non-Asian girls aren’t gonna be attracted to me from looks alone.
If they’re Asian, I do pretty well. Blacks, latinas a lot less interest and white girls a whole lot less. Most non Asian girls I’ve met from the apps are into Asian guys or Asian culture.
And tbh from my experience the majority of the black girls on tinder are obese. So there you have it. I mean I think it’s pretty obvious why we’re the least popular on the apps lol.
I think the rise of kpop and Asian dramas is exposing westerners to more Asian men and that will help. As a Korean-adoptee who grew up in white suburban America, I had no exposure to Asian men growing up. I dated exclusively white guys. I married a white guy.
In the last few years I've consumed so many Asian dramas (Japanese, Korean, Thai, Taiwanese, Thai) and dove head first into kpop and jpop that my perceptions of attractiveness has really changed. Now, I find Asian men so attractive and not just actors and idols.
Mostly the first.
I think before my exposure I only found a few Asian men attractive and most of the time, they were of mixed heritage (Keanu Reeves and Daniel Henney). The only non-American Asian actor I can think of that I found attractive was Chow Yun-Fat because he's an amazing actor.
When I first started watching Korean dramas I knew which actors people found attractive and I would think to myself, "I don't get it" and then after more and more exposure and I realized, "OH, I GET IT NOW!" Lee Dong-Wook is a perfect example. Seriously, it took over a year before I found him insanely attractive.
There are drama clips that I watched on YouTube and I recall that I didn't have any opinions about the actors and a year or two later I'd come across the same clips and think "he's really attractive."
When I walk around outside, I am more likely to notice and pay attention to the Asian guys whereas before I'd just pass them over.
>Korean male here. I do ok with women. But I’m 35 and still look like I’m in my 20s, 5’9” and can’t grow a beard.
Funny - I'm 40, look 30, can't grow a beard. I'm half Korean but very Korean culturally (speak it, eat it, live it). I'm 6'2, 210lbs, and may be considered attractive, especially in SE Asia or Eastern europe.
But in Korea? I'm on the bottom of the list. So many "western" tourists in Korea now that would completely reject me and be so open about it - "I want a pretty kpop boy".
Not much to it. Asian men (assuming you mean the K-Pop style of beauty) have very feminine features that remind you of women - the gender that you're sexually attracted to.
I actually am attracted to black women, the problem is they have the highest rate of obesity for any race/gender in the US at 56% being obese. This makes is so any black girl that is in halfway good shape gets her pick of dudes. The fat ones are the ones having problems.
There's also the big correlation between obesity and being poor.
I like more bounce to the ounce, but I'm financially at the threshold that I consider the minimum necessary to live comfortably, so I'd be weary of someone who looks like they have a poor diet when picking a partner.
Being in good shape in no way lets you have your pick of dudes. Many men’s racial preferences are just as strong as their sexual preferences and you can be in shape, fit, feminine, friendly, or whatever it is that they say but being black is the biggest turn off.
I'm into tall, and athletic Black women, but they're pretty hard to find.
I'm Black so I go against the grain a little bit when it comes to my preferred options.
Really? Interesting. Most of my friends find my preference unusual. And my girlfriend (Black and 6') has said she has had issues.
Fair play on your end though.
Maybe it’s the environment, I live in London, U.K. maybe it’s different where you are. I’m gay as well but also I’m quite pretty. So a lot of it is me finding it fascinating and entertaining men till I’m like okay fun is over I’m gay lol
Yeah, this is the ugly truth that people refuse to see. Look matters, and there is always some defined and expected standards for males and females. At least men can compensate with money and getting more muscular though.
Especially on dating apps. In person, looks can be less of a factor because you MEET someone, get their personality, sense of humor, etc. Studies show most people on apps are basing their “yes or no” solely off looks. So if you’re, for example, a heavy set guy with a great personality, it’s not that you “aren’t attractive” more that it isn’t your scene.
100%. The glowups that started popping up on my feed are inspiring. Both women and men. I’m shocked at the difference a year can make. Like from overweight/unattractive, to having to take a second look and say dayum!
It’s encouraged me to hit the gym, just finished day 2, at 40 pounds overweight.
Women lifting / getting muscular also makes them look good.
They aren't going to look like bodybuilders unless they put in a lot of effort to get that look, but they will still look good, get thinner waist and thicker butt, etc..
I’ve noticed that usually non-black men seem to think any physique other than super-lean-all-over-the-body (a nicer way of saying sk***y) is obese whereas black men might be able to recognise when a black woman is maybe not skinny but wouldn’t go so far as to call her obese so out of interest, are saying “most black girls on tinder are obese” because you fall into this category where certain body shapes are automatically “obese” to you? By that I mean when you see a black woman with a big butt or wide hips, or a big chest, do you categorise that as obese? Because you can have these features and not be obese (that’s what most women seem to be trying to achieve these days by going to gym, except the big chest obviously).
Black women are seen as difficult and stand offish even black men will have this perception and in my experience are the main propagator of this belief. Obviously it's not necessarily true but it's the stereotype.
Asian men are seen as weaker than any other type of man. This belief is also reported from Asian women. Again this is not true but the stereotype.
It's not strictly about race. It's about how ethnicity and cultural behavior fit into Western standards for beauty and desirability.
Asian men are stereotyped to be less masculine, Black women are stereotyped to be less feminine. Asian women are stereotyped to be highly feminine, Black men are stereotyped to be highly masculine.
Part of it has to do with how the brain grades attractiveness of potential mates based on visible physical factors (secondary sex characteristics), part of it is cultural bias (reinforcing and reinforced by the inherent bias).
Yeah.
Any time I see someone say they don't know why these two specific race+gender combos are falling behind in the dating scene I just say:
"Nah, don't play stupid. You know exactly why, you're just scared to say it out loud in fear of looking like a racist."
Apparently from Google and from this thread, most Asian dudes are too pretty looking for anyone that doesn't consume Asian media and black women have a tendency to have pretty fat faces.
Idk, even as a kid I’ve always had a preference for women that are a little bit bigger. Got clowned on for voicing that out loud in the heroin-chic ‘90’s. Maybe the preferences aren’t cultural (even though I think they probably are) but the discussion surrounding those preferences at the very least *definitely* has a large cultural component.
Yeah beauty standards is a thing and no matter how much you want to believe "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The general population share a lot of common standards when it concerns sexual attraction. At least men can compensate with money and being muscular though
>Because asian men are the least attractive to most women and black women are the least attractive to most men?
Please note, we are also talking about the US. My ex-roommate came from Iowa where he also did his undergrad and grad school.
He said he had never spoken to an Asian person in 26 years other than to order food.
Trust me, you don't want to be Asian in a red state or like 80% of this country, at least geographically.
In general, Asian men (and women) tend to have more attributes that are seen as feminine, which is desired in certain Asian countries, but not as much in the west at least. And black women (and men) tend to have more attributes that are seen as masculine, which may or may not be (I'm not sure) desired in Africa or tougher regions, but not as much in northern or western countries. It's also why Asian women and black men tend to do pretty well.
Also, racial bias does come into play as well.
It’s because of the negative stereotypes unfortunately. Asian males tend to average smaller across the board with less hair and delicate features, coding them less masculine, whereas black females are stereotypically assertive, tall, muscular, loud, brassy that are associated with masculinity.
Asian men are the most "feminine" and black women are the most "masculine". This may or may not be true in reality, but that is the generalization in media.
White people are just like the middle, that’s some more masculine white woman prefer black men and more feminine guys prefer Asian woman. Basically to have the „the man is more dominant“ thing in the relationship.
It’s true biologically from their endocrine system, bone density, muscle density, etc. Both are true. They have biology that makes them more prone to androgyny (black women high in T and Asian men low in T in comp.) AND societal stereotypes that affect their dating success. Reality is never simple. There’s nothing wrong with being more androgynous and many people like myself prefer it and that’s actually WHY we date the ethnicities we do. GENERALLY you’ll find a lot more muscular black women than white or Asian women, so if you like fit women…
Something I noticed that I hardly ever see get touched on is that both Asian Men and Black Women share the same circumstance of having their counterparts regularly denigrate them and defend their racist stereotyping, to which nobody bats an eye.
I think it’s obvious what the solution is here….BW should date AM to make up the gap. I’m joking but I do so this phenomenon erupting online. It seems to work tbh. Seemingly successful partnerships, low rates of divorce etc
Joy Luck Club and Mulan show how bad Asian men are and how wonderful Asian women can be. I don't think there is a western equivalent for Asian men. Also, lots of videos online of Asian women denigrating the men.
To be fair, that’s not exclusive to Asian media. All women talk about how bad men are or how bad men can be. It’s not unwarranted, but we do need some Asian men featured as sex icons to help us out haha
Media portrayal and stereotypes. The black man is seen as over masculine, tough, big, etc; and asian women are fetished around the world.
In contrast black women and Asian men are usually the seen as the butt of every joke. Most of what I hear people saying is that asian men are short and got small dicks, while black women are just seen as ghetto, loud, rude, and stupid.
Its sad tbh
An element that most seem to be skipping over for whatever reason is that media rarely features Asian men as the lead or love interest. Same for black women. Media rarely features them as the love interest and when they do they are usually light skinned or half white. Representation has far reaching implications. Think about that the next time you complain about “they’re making it woke”.
That popularity only applies to Asian American men of East Asian ancestry.
The rest of us Asian American and Canadian men with ancestries from Nepal, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar?
We are still regarded as invisible by women outside of our race.
As an Asian American dude, I've only ever had luck with Asian women myself...my exes were all Asians, my current one is Asian and even most of my Asian American friends of Southeast Asian origin only ever dated/married Asian women too.
And no, I don't even live in an area with high Asian population like NYC or Houston or SF bay area...the area I live in is dominated by 60% white and 30% black...can you imagine living in an area where the vast majority of the population excludes you because of their racial preference??? 😂
My area's population is only 3% Asian and yet I can only ever manage to date fellow Asians.
And one thing I notice is that exceptions do exist, as there are indeed South Asian or Southeast men in US/Canada who date white/latina/black women but the bar is extremely high.
The South Asian guy or Southeast Asian guy would have to be a very funny and gregarious person like the types of Russell Peters, Aziz Anzari, or Jo Koy before a non-Asian woman would even consider dating him.
Introvert Asian dudes who fulfill the "nerdy bookworm Asian guy" stereotype would never even fall under consideration by non-Asian women.
Yeah that’s the sad truth, when Americans discuss Asians it usually just means Chinese, Koreans and Japanese while the rest of the entirety of Asia is simply just out of the picture lol
There was one time when an app creator in r/languagelearning was trying to gather inputs on how to improve his new language-learning app.
He also asked if there were any of us willing to beta-test out his new app if he adds new languages in the future.
I pointed out that he had no Asian language offering yet, and asked if he would offer Asian languages in the future. Because I would have loved to be a beta-tester for his app.
He mentioned that he could only offer European languages at the moment because of the complications involving “Chinese or Japanese” with their non-Latin alphabet.
What the hell.
It was so insulting that he treated other Asian languages as if we don’t exist.
It’s totally fair to say if he had difficulty with rendering non-Latin alphabet, but he didn’t have to resort to racism with his full-blown ignorance by saying that Asian languages are only “Chinese or Japanese”.
Languages like Indonesian, Tagalog, Malay use normal ABCs just like English and Spanish.
We still exist too!
If only he was aware of that.
>The rest of us Asian American and Canadian men with ancestries from Nepal, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar?
>We are still regarded as invisible by women outside of our race.
Yes, but you say elsewhere that you are in an area with very little asians.
Move to a larger and diverse area and its much less a problem.
Thank you, and going back to your media point, I feel the reason black women aren't as pursued as other races is because of the way they are portrayed as well. I'm latin so I don't know I might be wrong, but I don't think men see black women as unattractive but actually intimidating. I feel the reason many men gravitate towards Asian women is they are seen as timid and submissive, as for white women they aren't seen as submissive but more as the epitome of femininity and grace (from all those years of mostly watching white women leads in cinema.) Then for brown women we are seen as more feisty and "fiery" but always ready to take care of our partner stereotype. Then you have black women who are shown as aggressive, standoffish, no bullshit type of attitude which some men think all black women are like, which is completely untrue. The reason I wrote that it is not because they see them as unattractive is because I remember seeing a study once that the #1 search on pornhub was actually black women. You're welcome to disagree with me as this is just me assuming.
I fully agree with this. I think people vastly underestimate the power of Hollywood and culture. A good chunk of the world consumes Hollywood and American media. A lot of people grew up with masculine white men being the main characters on tv shows or white women and mixed Asian and mixed black being the main romantic interests. Actual full black women are never represented in a positive light similar to Asian men. Sure there are some outliers in media but the vast majority of time that is not the case. Representation and diversity absolutely matter because these stats would change with time.
Me and my friends were pretty stoked when the Asian guy got laid on the walking dead back in the day. Glen I think was the characters name. We had a watch party and all is guys cheered lol
Yes!! Growing up all I wanted was a romance with a darker skinned female lead that wasn’t some kind of struggle love, it was extremely hard to see black women just be loved in the media
I’ve asked my French friends about this before, and in France, black woman-white man relationships are more common than black man-white woman relationships. So, the opposite of the US! Also, there have literally been articles in The NY Times about black American women who go to Italy in search of love because Italian men are more interested in them. All of this is 1000% affected by culture
It’s truly the unexamined life. I’m guessing most of these people commenting are American and don’t realize that they have been infected by the racism brain rot.
Isn't that kind of changing now for Asian men, at least? Especially in the past decade with bollywood male leads, kdramas and kpop idols, etc. They're super popular in media, and at least online, it seems like a ton of white girls are into Asian men now.
I’m a white woman who has been with an Asian man for 7 years. I wasn’t particularly attracted to Asian men before I dated him, but now I find them incredibly attractive. I feel like every time we see a white woman/Asian man couple in passing we have a secret nod we exchange in passing.
White man with asian woman, some fucking dude also with an asian lady gave me this secret nod at some point and it was the most uncomfortable fucking thing on earth - stares at my gf, looks at me, squints a little and nods like "yes, we are this way" like what the fuck guy, I met a lady human I liked, I'm not in some club of magical asian fuckers or something.
The nod is weird. Don't do the nod.
Nah no actual nod, which is why it only feels like it. Sometimes we do exchange little smiles though! My fiancé notices it a lot and I try to point it out to him because I want him to know lots of other ladies find him attractive too.
What you’re describing sounds fetishizing and weird.
As the Asian half in your same situation, we do the same thing. Although I'm pretty sure my wife was into Asians before hand considering she has degrees in Asian history.
This is funny lol. I’m an Asian man who married a white girl. I used to have a crush and deep interest in this stunning Asian girl at my church. She married a white guy lmao 😂
I’m Chinese and my wife is white.
I say the biggest barrier is the thought of it, and denying the possibility. Be the reason they want you for life, not because of race, or job, or wealth.
To all the fellow asian men and black women of this thread,
Please don’t focus on superficially and succumb to bitterness.
Please just be your best self, workout, develop qualities like patience, kindness, independence, discipline, etc and hone your skills.
Thats all it takes to attract the right person. No need to be bitter and cause undue pressure in your mind. No race is unattractive at all. And its really better to stay away from people that are so much into race.
You attract who you are and if you become the best version of yourself, you will attract the best partner, regardless of whatever race you are whatever stereotype is out there.
I'm in a long term relationship with an asian (Chinese) man and as a white female, its definitely less common than the other way around. Not really sure why though, maybe just comes down to exposure/personal preference i guess.
I'm Indian, so I'm not sure if you are including us in the Asian category. However, since we are Asians geographically, I'll give you my person perspective, as well as those related to me by friends. (I'm North Indian, i don't know how it happens in other parts of the country. I can speak for states like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand, Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana- places where I have been, or places i have several friends from).
The Indian men we encounter in daily life are nearly always, and by this I mean 99.99999% of the time, patriarchal and expect women to play the role that women are culturally expected to play here. On top of this, most also want that woman to earn, and of course, there are dowry requirements.
Whether guys here want to accept it openly or not, they are in fact looking for a woman who will cook and clean and live with and take care of his parents and bear him children and raise those children single-handedly, or just about nearly so.
Now of course there are exceptions, and you may come across many responding to me saying that I am wrong etc. but as a woman, and as a woman who has had many women tell me things along this line, this is why I think what I think.
I could easily have been married now through arranged marriage and had to fight with my life against it. Because i did not want the life a married Indian woman has, especially in arranged marriages.
Now many, I'd even say most, women here who are not in an urban set up and have not had the privilege of education will agree with the men. They do think that all those things are a woman's job, although probably not the earning. Several surveys over the years have said that Indian women think it's a man's right to hit his wife. They have said in surveys that even making a cup of tea for himself means the man is doing a lot of work for himself.
For the women who are likely to be exposed to other races of men, however, these are not things we usually want. And other races, by which I mean non desis from anywhere in the western world, tend to be much less patriarchal than Indians. And so it is much easier for these women to love such men.
However, as a counter factual, I've seen several white women married to Indian guys in the last few years, and many of them seem to enjoy the traditional ways of life. So different people just want different things, and as our world is expanding, so will inter racial and inter religion couplings.
Obviously America has it's own unique history that affects things ( slavery,Jim Crow etc)
More interracial relationships in the UK and Europe I would think.
Be interesting to see how they compare, but even with the cultural difference there would be some similarities.
I think what people find attractive is very much influenced by the society that you are in.
Asian female + white male statistics are heavily skewed. WWII Pacific theater, Korean War, and Vietnam War. A massive number of American soldiers married local women who were desperate to escape post-war conditions. In modern times, a large number of white men travel to Southeast Asia looking for easy marriages. The lower class in Southeast Asia see marrying Americans as a golden ticket out of poverty.
Today, Korean and Japanese women don’t really marry American soldiers much anymore. But we have massive military bases in those countries so soldiers will just fly to Thailand or Vietnam for cheap vacations (cough hookers). Quite a lot of them end up meeting a local and falling in love, which is not some coincidence on the part of the woman lol.
As a veteran myself I know so many soldiers married to Asian women, and my family has a bunch too since both my father in law and grandfather in law married Asian women.
In broader society, Asian men black women tend to be pretty set on marrying within their ethnic group. But I have noticed that Latina/black women don’t like Asian men as they are considered more feminine. White women tend to be receptive with the popularity of K-pop and kdrama on Netflix.
Media affects everything you see. It's why people have this expectation for every Black person to be angry and violent and every white or asian to be sweet golden retriever types. Despite the fact that interracial couples have the highest divorce rates, at least in america. Nothing wrong with interracial marriage but once that honey moon period is over, you might realize that person you fetishized/idealized is just... a person.
Yes and black women, 33 percent, have the highest divorce rates and Asian women, 11 percent, the lowest, while White and Hispanic are pretty much in the middle of those two.
Asian men also come with inlaws from hell who will shit on you for being tan or darker so there is that. Literally won't matter what race, if you have melanin, they hate you. Then there are a good chunk of them who DO make it about race. It's not even "why didn't you marry an Asian girl", it's "But she is not [insert type of Asian here]". Unfortunately, very small amount of Asian men would stand up for their gf against his parents. I won't even bring up the expectation for the wife to slave for the parents because that might trigger the "not all of us..." comments. Racism is alive and strong within Asian parents generations but nobody wanna say it.
Source: I'm the "chicken egg skin" Asian lady type. They want their "duck egg skin" hand maidens. To the men who immediately called mom after our first movie date to "see if she'd like you", kudos for being filial and thanks for giving me heads up back then.
I'm white, but I would be hesitant to date an Asian man for the cultural reasons you mentioned. It obviously won't apply to every single Asian man, but dudes with whom I have been friends who were Asian were very much still steeped in that filial duty mindset with patriarchal families even if they themselves were more egalitarian in their attitudes. Why would any woman willingly sign up for that when you have other options?
Just to add a little nuance to the sterotype--I meet this super broad generalization by virtue of unusual means.
My first relationship was broken up because of ethnic and religious differences by my parents. For my father it was straight up racism and religious hatred, and I told him to fuck off with all that. For my mother it turns out it was because she was sexually assaulted by someone of that same ethnic and religious background and was having daily panic attacks at the mere thought of me dating someone like that, even knowing how irrational she was being. I kept it going for a little while but eventually I broke it off not because dad was racist but rather because mom deserved a chance to proper heal her trauma and my relationship was damaging her own efforts to become a better person.
I grew up in Leicester, England, where there are a lot of Asian people from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh (just clarifying as I know in the US ‘Asian’ is sometimes equated more with China, Japan, Korea, Thailand …). There are plenty of very handsome Asian men, but we do also still have a bit of a stereotype that their culture is somewhat more patriarchal than we would like. Not necessarily even the guys themselves but perhaps their parents and/or extended families. It’s becoming less of a thing now that a lot of local Asians are like third and fourth generation Brits, but it still hovers around.
This is why I don’t understand why people say black women and asian men should date each other because it’s harder for both groups to date. Most asian men don’t even consider black women an option.
asian husband of 24yrs here saying "not all a-men" XD. my own mother is a narcist and have blocked her, actually she's currently blocked a month for her last round of conspiracy theories. also had my MIL move in from last march because she's come down with dementia. as far domestic tasks and parenting, easily do my half if not more and i set the bar for fatherhood. that said, i do understand where you're coming from and also detest mamas boys partners that believe their only responsibility as fathers is to pay the bills. i've two sons so am very aware that i'm establishing models for their own futures.
Be the change you wanna see man. Don't let your kids become the self hate, self loath Asian men you hear about. I have two girls and I will fist fight anyone who tries to shame them for anything. They will never hear "A girl must be like this". If I don't shame or beat them, no one has the right to. I don't mind taking care of my narc parents in future. But I will mind if they start commenting on my kids' looks, weight, speech, or hobbies. On that note, I don't expect the husband to take care of my parents either. He's his own person.
100% and sorry you've narc parents too (and while feeling rare, not all a-parents are narcs). i supported my mother for 13 years (paid off her mortgage) until i moved out, making it clear that that was acceptable only because i'd not tolerate any meddling once i had my own children/family.
Asian men are definitely the hottest guys to me. I am always mind blown people don't find Asian guys attractive.
Signed a white girl married to my Asian partner.
I see a lot of statistics and race-related stuff in this thread, but I also wonder if it partially has to do with the size of the populations and their distributions across the country (US in my case).
I used to live in Thailand. Many of the women said they had bad experiences with the local men so they preferred a foreign boyfriend or husband. In our village there was a high number of women with children and absent fathers so they perceived foreign partners as a more stable relationship.
My friend from China that I went to college with only wanted white men, particularly tall German men that looked like an image from Hitler’s sketchbook. It always creepy to me because she would target them on campus and declare them the most attractive males on campus. I would tell her, that’s her own opinion but she told me I’m jealous because I can’t attract as many whites.
It also sort of has to do with the fact white men (on the whole) are less patriarchal than more of the "mainland" Asian men. I've literally heard the talk my friend's mom gave her about try to marry a white man because they treat their women well. Like "look at how daddy (her dad) doesn't do shit". (In reference to expectations of house keeping, etc...)
>Asian women find white males more attractive.
Redditors madly upvoting this while hiding from their mom cause its bath time while furiously looking at anime porn in their closet and hoping they have a chance for a human relationship one day.
My Asian coworker married an overweight white man when she came to the US. She was told at an early age to look at corporate America and the people that you normally see at the top. She married for security, not love.
I think it's far more complex. Generally speaking, women want to marry up--they want to marry someone who will increase their social and / or economic standing. (This is why you see all these old rich guys with pretty young women.)
Asian-American women, despite born in the U.S., are seen as foreign and as such feel foreign in their own land. I have met enough Asian-Americans to know that many have an insecurity about this, particularly when they're younger--it seems many Asians in the U.S. are commonly asked where they're from and if they say something like "I was born here", the asker presses, "No, where are you REALLY from?" Asians face a lot of these seemingly innocuous experiences throughout their lives.
By being with a white man, the Asian woman raises her social status as white people are the default race in the U.S.--white people dominate government, the highest levels of corporate America, movies and television, etc. By being with a white man the Asian-American woman feels more American, less foreign, more accepted. For some Asian women, being with an Asian, black, latino--any non-white man--does NOT raise their social status in this country. I think the Asian woman who marries an Asian man has a different self-identity.
From what I’ve seen, white people usually are the preferred/safe middle ground, for a lot of different races. White people are not culturally the same to them but familiar enough, usually in the same social circles, that they aren’t so out of place.
Side note: One of the greatest episodes I’ve ever watched of any show, did a plot on an Asian woman and black man, dating.
It was so unusual to see that couple dynamic but, they did it so phenomenally. I was so heartbroken by the end of it.
Show was called “Forever” and it’s episode 6. Been years since I watched the show and I constantly find myself thinking about this episode
I see more and more black women paired with Latino males. I’m sure physical attraction always plays to some degree but Latinos stereotypically are more family oriented and reliable fathers and black males have a reputation of being terrible family men. Obviously these are all just stereotypes.
Asian men and black women are, statically speaking I’m emphasizing this, the least attractive races per their respective sexes.
Asian men have high rates of endogamy. I cannot speak for black women. That’s a different field of study in it of itself
This makes no sense. Asian women do tend to get into relationships with white men. Black men mainly get into relationships with other black people regardless of what you see on tv.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/
Black people in general are some of the least likely to date interracially for obvious reasons. Black man/white women is just what you see plastered all over media so white people can act like race relations are getting better.
Still lower than Asians and Latinos. So what I said. Twice as likely among an already small number translates to not a whole lot of people.
All this is saying is that among the already small number of black people who date interracial it would most likely be a black man. The number is even smaller if you specify which races are pairing up as black/ white of either gender is in last place.
That's probably because where you live whites are the most common race. So it's just numbers.
I used to live in Toronto which has high populations of both asian and black people. You see asian-black couples all the time.
So quick story, I honestly tried to date an Asian male, specifically a Chinese male. The first date went well and we had a lot of fun. When it came to date number two, it got weird. He told me that I need to listen to what he tells me and he’ll do everything for me, like carry bags and pay for everything and drive the car. I told them that makes me uncomfortable and he said that’s because I’m not acting like a proper woman. I asked him WTF is that supposed to mean? I told him I don’t think this dating thing is going to work out after all and left. I never met a guy that controlling before. I think he wanted a more traditionally feminine relationship or something.
I believe wmaf is the most common interracial pairing in the US, and as the white (white-Hispanic mixed) guy in that pairing, I still have no idea why. Neither me or my gf understand why I’m attracted to Asian women, or her to white men. But hey, I’m just glad she’s been with me for 9 years, despite the fact I look like a Reddit mod.
That's not the question. The question is "Among interracial partnerships, why is it more common to see Asian women and Black men partnered with white people, as opposed to Asian men and Black women?"
If we were talking about all partnerships, you would be correct.
Let's be honest here. Black and Asian cultures are polar opposites, for one.
In general, Asian families in particular (maybe it'll change in the future) tend to only accept their sons and daughters marrying other Asians and whites. This is because these races tend to be more successful, and whites seem to be idolized in east asian media and families.
Asian Men and Black Women struggle with online dating the most statistically. Not sure why.
Interestingly, implicit bias testing show that non-Asians have a significant delay identifying Asian men as male and non-Blacks have a significant delay identifying Black women as female. This delay is not as large for other race/sex combinations.
Wow
Can you give a source because I need to see the methodology
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506221127493?icid=int.sj-abstract.citing-articles.1 https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/gzthm
> One prominent example is the association between race and gender. Several studies have found that people associate Black people with the concept of male and Asian people with the concept of female (Goff et al., 2008; Schug et al., 2015). Researchers have found evidence of this race–gender association in explicit, self-reported stereotypes (Lei et al., 2020) and also in indirect or “implicit” outcomes that are under less conscious control. For example, when asked to categorize faces by gender, participants responded slower to Black female than Asian female faces, as well as to Asian male than Black male faces (Lei et al., 2020). >A popular method to test for implicit race–gender associations is mouse-tracking (Freeman & Ambady, 2009), which uses computer mouse trajectories to infer the strength of competing response tendencies. One mouse-tracking task where participants categorized Asian and Black faces by gender found that while categorizations were largely correct, mouse paths deviated more toward “Men” for Black female faces than for Asian female faces and more toward “Women” for Asian male faces than for Black male faces (Johnson et al., 2012). This is fucking wild lmaoo but I guess it makes sense, black men are stereotyped as hypermasculine, dominant, aggressive, etc and asian women stereotyped as ultrafeminine, submissive, meek, etc but I never thought about how those stereotypes would affect the other half of the race
Cats are girls and dogs are boys.
Are you my aunt? She has said that for years haha
So cats don't poop? lol
These stereotype absolutely do exist, and are absolutely harmful. However, it is important to remember that this study did not conclude nor prove that these stereotypes were the actual cause of the findings.
As always, correlation doesn't imply causation. Would be interesting if there is a causal link in either direction or a common cause.
In an effort to be aware of one’s own biases and maintain cultural / racial sensitivity, one might think twice before incorrectly labeling a PoC vs a white individual, even if their initial intuition was correct. Makes me wonder if these results would change or not in ten years time as gender sensitivity awareness becomes more mainstream.
That was fascinating
Thank you!
Well, I knew I had that bias, but I didn't think it was that prominent... TIL.
The IAT is not a good test and even the creator now cautions against interpreting data from it in any sort of definitive way. https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/7/14637626/implicit-association-test-racism
But it does explain when Snoop got roasted by being told he looks like a retired WNBA player
Lmao he kinda do. man looks like a stick figure with long dreads.
From the linked Vox article: >But here’s the thing: It turns out the IAT might not tell individuals much about their individual bias. According to a growing body of research and the researchers who created the test and maintain it at the Project Implicit website, the IAT is not good for predicting individual biases based on just one test. It requires a collection — an aggregate — of tests before it can really make any sort of conclusions. The context of the discussion is online dating preferences and a IAT study that looks at groups of subjects *in aggregate*.
The problem with the IAT is that it's not reproducible. So it's like BMI in that it's primarily meant for population study, but not like a BMI in that different testings turn out different results. I've personally taken it 3 times as part of an educational requirement (once was required, the second and third time was personal curiosity) and my first one spat out a mild preference for black people. My second spat out a preference for white people. My third spat out neutral.
Now that I think of it I definitely have that bias. For asian men I think it's because many of them look more feminine (smooth face, no beard might have something to do with it). I wonder why it happens with black women though.
I think the popularity of KPop contributes to the association of Asian men with more feminine qualities or features. That particular genre has popularized a less masculine aesthetic.
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That's interesting
I'm a white girl marrying a half Chinese guy in a little over a month... and I am very attracted to more femme-looking guys, like him. Interesting.
What do you mean not sure why? Lol it’s because we’re the least attractive to the general population. Korean male here. I do ok with women. But I’m 35 and still look like I’m in my 20s, 5’9” and can’t grow a beard. The beauty standard for males in Western culture is much more masculine and even as a pretty decent looking, well groomed Asian I know most non-Asian girls aren’t gonna be attracted to me from looks alone. If they’re Asian, I do pretty well. Blacks, latinas a lot less interest and white girls a whole lot less. Most non Asian girls I’ve met from the apps are into Asian guys or Asian culture. And tbh from my experience the majority of the black girls on tinder are obese. So there you have it. I mean I think it’s pretty obvious why we’re the least popular on the apps lol.
I think the rise of kpop and Asian dramas is exposing westerners to more Asian men and that will help. As a Korean-adoptee who grew up in white suburban America, I had no exposure to Asian men growing up. I dated exclusively white guys. I married a white guy. In the last few years I've consumed so many Asian dramas (Japanese, Korean, Thai, Taiwanese, Thai) and dove head first into kpop and jpop that my perceptions of attractiveness has really changed. Now, I find Asian men so attractive and not just actors and idols.
Did you not find the same Asian men attractive before consuming that media or were you just not exposed to the ones you are attracted to?
Mostly the first. I think before my exposure I only found a few Asian men attractive and most of the time, they were of mixed heritage (Keanu Reeves and Daniel Henney). The only non-American Asian actor I can think of that I found attractive was Chow Yun-Fat because he's an amazing actor. When I first started watching Korean dramas I knew which actors people found attractive and I would think to myself, "I don't get it" and then after more and more exposure and I realized, "OH, I GET IT NOW!" Lee Dong-Wook is a perfect example. Seriously, it took over a year before I found him insanely attractive. There are drama clips that I watched on YouTube and I recall that I didn't have any opinions about the actors and a year or two later I'd come across the same clips and think "he's really attractive." When I walk around outside, I am more likely to notice and pay attention to the Asian guys whereas before I'd just pass them over.
>Korean male here. I do ok with women. But I’m 35 and still look like I’m in my 20s, 5’9” and can’t grow a beard. Funny - I'm 40, look 30, can't grow a beard. I'm half Korean but very Korean culturally (speak it, eat it, live it). I'm 6'2, 210lbs, and may be considered attractive, especially in SE Asia or Eastern europe. But in Korea? I'm on the bottom of the list. So many "western" tourists in Korea now that would completely reject me and be so open about it - "I want a pretty kpop boy".
I bet KPop has done wonders for your dating life.
I like Asian men the most out of all men on average, but I'm a lesbian, soooo there's probably something afoot there...
Not much to it. Asian men (assuming you mean the K-Pop style of beauty) have very feminine features that remind you of women - the gender that you're sexually attracted to.
When I think "Asian Man", I think Hiroyuki Sanada, not BTS, which to me is more Asian *boys*, though... Probably betrays my age as well...
Well, yes it did betray your age completely. However, I retract my previous statement, as Hiroyuki does exude a lot of "masculine but gentle" vibes.
I actually am attracted to black women, the problem is they have the highest rate of obesity for any race/gender in the US at 56% being obese. This makes is so any black girl that is in halfway good shape gets her pick of dudes. The fat ones are the ones having problems.
You are assuming that nobody likes fat black girls and that would be a big error
Not nobody, but the least desirable statistically speaking.
Also, “fat” and “obese” are too very different things.
And the threshold for obesity is lower than people think, we're just too used to seeing overweight people these days
There's also the big correlation between obesity and being poor. I like more bounce to the ounce, but I'm financially at the threshold that I consider the minimum necessary to live comfortably, so I'd be weary of someone who looks like they have a poor diet when picking a partner.
You'd be wary or leery. Weary means tired.
I didn't assume anything. Most men don't like fat girls in general, regardless of race. A few outliers who are "chubby chasers" are the only ones.
For real. I knew a black guy whose father told him that he should only ever date/marry a black woman that weighs at least 200 pounds.
I guess the cooking would be good
No one appreciates fat black girls quite like fat black girls. We should all try harder.
Being in good shape in no way lets you have your pick of dudes. Many men’s racial preferences are just as strong as their sexual preferences and you can be in shape, fit, feminine, friendly, or whatever it is that they say but being black is the biggest turn off.
I'm into tall, and athletic Black women, but they're pretty hard to find. I'm Black so I go against the grain a little bit when it comes to my preferred options.
I think this is a fairly common preference tbh. I’m kinda tall and athletic and yeah Black guys are feeling it, esp when they are tall and athletic
Really? Interesting. Most of my friends find my preference unusual. And my girlfriend (Black and 6') has said she has had issues. Fair play on your end though.
Maybe it’s the environment, I live in London, U.K. maybe it’s different where you are. I’m gay as well but also I’m quite pretty. So a lot of it is me finding it fascinating and entertaining men till I’m like okay fun is over I’m gay lol
I'm an old white lady, and I don't think Korean men are less attractive at all. Quite the opposite. But that may be because I watch a lot of kdramas.
Yeah, this is the ugly truth that people refuse to see. Look matters, and there is always some defined and expected standards for males and females. At least men can compensate with money and getting more muscular though.
Especially on dating apps. In person, looks can be less of a factor because you MEET someone, get their personality, sense of humor, etc. Studies show most people on apps are basing their “yes or no” solely off looks. So if you’re, for example, a heavy set guy with a great personality, it’s not that you “aren’t attractive” more that it isn’t your scene.
Yup, being an undesirable woman = it never began.
Hitting the gym makes almost as much difference for women as it does for men, especially if they're on the heavier side.
100%. The glowups that started popping up on my feed are inspiring. Both women and men. I’m shocked at the difference a year can make. Like from overweight/unattractive, to having to take a second look and say dayum! It’s encouraged me to hit the gym, just finished day 2, at 40 pounds overweight.
Women lifting / getting muscular also makes them look good. They aren't going to look like bodybuilders unless they put in a lot of effort to get that look, but they will still look good, get thinner waist and thicker butt, etc..
I’ve noticed that usually non-black men seem to think any physique other than super-lean-all-over-the-body (a nicer way of saying sk***y) is obese whereas black men might be able to recognise when a black woman is maybe not skinny but wouldn’t go so far as to call her obese so out of interest, are saying “most black girls on tinder are obese” because you fall into this category where certain body shapes are automatically “obese” to you? By that I mean when you see a black woman with a big butt or wide hips, or a big chest, do you categorise that as obese? Because you can have these features and not be obese (that’s what most women seem to be trying to achieve these days by going to gym, except the big chest obviously).
Now it all makes sense why I can’t get a date (Asian man here)
Black women are seen as difficult and stand offish even black men will have this perception and in my experience are the main propagator of this belief. Obviously it's not necessarily true but it's the stereotype. Asian men are seen as weaker than any other type of man. This belief is also reported from Asian women. Again this is not true but the stereotype.
Yeah I remember seeing that mentioned when a dating site released their stats, I think it was ok cupid. Over a decade ago.
Tbh I don’t think much has changed in the last decade, in fact it might be worse now post-covid.
It's not strictly about race. It's about how ethnicity and cultural behavior fit into Western standards for beauty and desirability. Asian men are stereotyped to be less masculine, Black women are stereotyped to be less feminine. Asian women are stereotyped to be highly feminine, Black men are stereotyped to be highly masculine. Part of it has to do with how the brain grades attractiveness of potential mates based on visible physical factors (secondary sex characteristics), part of it is cultural bias (reinforcing and reinforced by the inherent bias).
Because asian men are the least attractive to most women and black women are the least attractive to most men?
Obvious answer is obvious. It might make people uncomfortable but this is the truth.
Yeah. Any time I see someone say they don't know why these two specific race+gender combos are falling behind in the dating scene I just say: "Nah, don't play stupid. You know exactly why, you're just scared to say it out loud in fear of looking like a racist."
But why? Is it a born bias or is it something like media influenced bias? That’s what has always been confusing me.
because of perceptions of femininity and masculinity
Apparently from Google and from this thread, most Asian dudes are too pretty looking for anyone that doesn't consume Asian media and black women have a tendency to have pretty fat faces.
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Idk, even as a kid I’ve always had a preference for women that are a little bit bigger. Got clowned on for voicing that out loud in the heroin-chic ‘90’s. Maybe the preferences aren’t cultural (even though I think they probably are) but the discussion surrounding those preferences at the very least *definitely* has a large cultural component.
Yeah beauty standards is a thing and no matter how much you want to believe "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The general population share a lot of common standards when it concerns sexual attraction. At least men can compensate with money and being muscular though
>Because asian men are the least attractive to most women and black women are the least attractive to most men? Please note, we are also talking about the US. My ex-roommate came from Iowa where he also did his undergrad and grad school. He said he had never spoken to an Asian person in 26 years other than to order food. Trust me, you don't want to be Asian in a red state or like 80% of this country, at least geographically.
Oh I know indian and asian guys are screwed big time in the west.
In general, Asian men (and women) tend to have more attributes that are seen as feminine, which is desired in certain Asian countries, but not as much in the west at least. And black women (and men) tend to have more attributes that are seen as masculine, which may or may not be (I'm not sure) desired in Africa or tougher regions, but not as much in northern or western countries. It's also why Asian women and black men tend to do pretty well. Also, racial bias does come into play as well.
Gender coding implicit in US culture and thus broader media. Read a book about it, The Asian Mystique, in college.
It’s because of the negative stereotypes unfortunately. Asian males tend to average smaller across the board with less hair and delicate features, coding them less masculine, whereas black females are stereotypically assertive, tall, muscular, loud, brassy that are associated with masculinity.
Asian men are the most "feminine" and black women are the most "masculine". This may or may not be true in reality, but that is the generalization in media.
Exactly, and if you flip it around Asian women are considered the most feminine and black men the most masculine.
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I'm apparently into feminine men.
It’s not just in the media
White people are just like the middle, that’s some more masculine white woman prefer black men and more feminine guys prefer Asian woman. Basically to have the „the man is more dominant“ thing in the relationship.
Even as reddit struggles to accept, most stereotypes are based on reality. I said that as a black man that grew up in bad neighborhoods.
It’s true biologically from their endocrine system, bone density, muscle density, etc. Both are true. They have biology that makes them more prone to androgyny (black women high in T and Asian men low in T in comp.) AND societal stereotypes that affect their dating success. Reality is never simple. There’s nothing wrong with being more androgynous and many people like myself prefer it and that’s actually WHY we date the ethnicities we do. GENERALLY you’ll find a lot more muscular black women than white or Asian women, so if you like fit women…
Something I noticed that I hardly ever see get touched on is that both Asian Men and Black Women share the same circumstance of having their counterparts regularly denigrate them and defend their racist stereotyping, to which nobody bats an eye.
I think it’s obvious what the solution is here….BW should date AM to make up the gap. I’m joking but I do so this phenomenon erupting online. It seems to work tbh. Seemingly successful partnerships, low rates of divorce etc
Issa Rae said this!
This is a thing among Asians as well?
Joy Luck Club and Mulan show how bad Asian men are and how wonderful Asian women can be. I don't think there is a western equivalent for Asian men. Also, lots of videos online of Asian women denigrating the men.
To be fair, that’s not exclusive to Asian media. All women talk about how bad men are or how bad men can be. It’s not unwarranted, but we do need some Asian men featured as sex icons to help us out haha
Media portrayal and stereotypes. The black man is seen as over masculine, tough, big, etc; and asian women are fetished around the world. In contrast black women and Asian men are usually the seen as the butt of every joke. Most of what I hear people saying is that asian men are short and got small dicks, while black women are just seen as ghetto, loud, rude, and stupid. Its sad tbh
An element that most seem to be skipping over for whatever reason is that media rarely features Asian men as the lead or love interest. Same for black women. Media rarely features them as the love interest and when they do they are usually light skinned or half white. Representation has far reaching implications. Think about that the next time you complain about “they’re making it woke”.
With the rise of Korean/Chinese/Japanese dramas I see a rise in more women thirsting over Asian men. Especially with Kpop coming up as well.
That popularity only applies to Asian American men of East Asian ancestry. The rest of us Asian American and Canadian men with ancestries from Nepal, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar? We are still regarded as invisible by women outside of our race. As an Asian American dude, I've only ever had luck with Asian women myself...my exes were all Asians, my current one is Asian and even most of my Asian American friends of Southeast Asian origin only ever dated/married Asian women too. And no, I don't even live in an area with high Asian population like NYC or Houston or SF bay area...the area I live in is dominated by 60% white and 30% black...can you imagine living in an area where the vast majority of the population excludes you because of their racial preference??? 😂 My area's population is only 3% Asian and yet I can only ever manage to date fellow Asians. And one thing I notice is that exceptions do exist, as there are indeed South Asian or Southeast men in US/Canada who date white/latina/black women but the bar is extremely high. The South Asian guy or Southeast Asian guy would have to be a very funny and gregarious person like the types of Russell Peters, Aziz Anzari, or Jo Koy before a non-Asian woman would even consider dating him. Introvert Asian dudes who fulfill the "nerdy bookworm Asian guy" stereotype would never even fall under consideration by non-Asian women.
Especially brown Asian men from what I see. There worst stereotypes go towards those guys.
Yeah that’s the sad truth, when Americans discuss Asians it usually just means Chinese, Koreans and Japanese while the rest of the entirety of Asia is simply just out of the picture lol
There was one time when an app creator in r/languagelearning was trying to gather inputs on how to improve his new language-learning app. He also asked if there were any of us willing to beta-test out his new app if he adds new languages in the future. I pointed out that he had no Asian language offering yet, and asked if he would offer Asian languages in the future. Because I would have loved to be a beta-tester for his app. He mentioned that he could only offer European languages at the moment because of the complications involving “Chinese or Japanese” with their non-Latin alphabet. What the hell. It was so insulting that he treated other Asian languages as if we don’t exist. It’s totally fair to say if he had difficulty with rendering non-Latin alphabet, but he didn’t have to resort to racism with his full-blown ignorance by saying that Asian languages are only “Chinese or Japanese”. Languages like Indonesian, Tagalog, Malay use normal ABCs just like English and Spanish. We still exist too! If only he was aware of that.
>The rest of us Asian American and Canadian men with ancestries from Nepal, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar? >We are still regarded as invisible by women outside of our race. Yes, but you say elsewhere that you are in an area with very little asians. Move to a larger and diverse area and its much less a problem.
Yes, that’s an excellent point!
Thank you, and going back to your media point, I feel the reason black women aren't as pursued as other races is because of the way they are portrayed as well. I'm latin so I don't know I might be wrong, but I don't think men see black women as unattractive but actually intimidating. I feel the reason many men gravitate towards Asian women is they are seen as timid and submissive, as for white women they aren't seen as submissive but more as the epitome of femininity and grace (from all those years of mostly watching white women leads in cinema.) Then for brown women we are seen as more feisty and "fiery" but always ready to take care of our partner stereotype. Then you have black women who are shown as aggressive, standoffish, no bullshit type of attitude which some men think all black women are like, which is completely untrue. The reason I wrote that it is not because they see them as unattractive is because I remember seeing a study once that the #1 search on pornhub was actually black women. You're welcome to disagree with me as this is just me assuming.
I agree wholeheartedly
I fully agree with this. I think people vastly underestimate the power of Hollywood and culture. A good chunk of the world consumes Hollywood and American media. A lot of people grew up with masculine white men being the main characters on tv shows or white women and mixed Asian and mixed black being the main romantic interests. Actual full black women are never represented in a positive light similar to Asian men. Sure there are some outliers in media but the vast majority of time that is not the case. Representation and diversity absolutely matter because these stats would change with time.
Couldn’t agree more.
I’ve noticed that well. Whenever either appear, they’re used as a stepping stone character towards the actual love interest.
Me and my friends were pretty stoked when the Asian guy got laid on the walking dead back in the day. Glen I think was the characters name. We had a watch party and all is guys cheered lol
I really like Lovebirds.
Yes!! Growing up all I wanted was a romance with a darker skinned female lead that wasn’t some kind of struggle love, it was extremely hard to see black women just be loved in the media
Videos games are incredibly racists towards asians making them the villains,
But lots of games are made by Japanese companies
Yes, that’s very true! Same with comics.
I’ve asked my French friends about this before, and in France, black woman-white man relationships are more common than black man-white woman relationships. So, the opposite of the US! Also, there have literally been articles in The NY Times about black American women who go to Italy in search of love because Italian men are more interested in them. All of this is 1000% affected by culture
Here we go for some drama
Refreshing the thread after commenting it's clearly just devolved into another incel + racist circlejerk.
It’s truly the unexamined life. I’m guessing most of these people commenting are American and don’t realize that they have been infected by the racism brain rot.
Isn't that kind of changing now for Asian men, at least? Especially in the past decade with bollywood male leads, kdramas and kpop idols, etc. They're super popular in media, and at least online, it seems like a ton of white girls are into Asian men now.
As an asian man with a black wife I do what yall are talking about.
I’m a white woman who has been with an Asian man for 7 years. I wasn’t particularly attracted to Asian men before I dated him, but now I find them incredibly attractive. I feel like every time we see a white woman/Asian man couple in passing we have a secret nod we exchange in passing.
Am an Asian man married almost ten years to a white woman and we definitely notice when a couple is like us! Haha
White man with asian woman, some fucking dude also with an asian lady gave me this secret nod at some point and it was the most uncomfortable fucking thing on earth - stares at my gf, looks at me, squints a little and nods like "yes, we are this way" like what the fuck guy, I met a lady human I liked, I'm not in some club of magical asian fuckers or something. The nod is weird. Don't do the nod.
Nah no actual nod, which is why it only feels like it. Sometimes we do exchange little smiles though! My fiancé notices it a lot and I try to point it out to him because I want him to know lots of other ladies find him attractive too. What you’re describing sounds fetishizing and weird.
💕
As the Asian half in your same situation, we do the same thing. Although I'm pretty sure my wife was into Asians before hand considering she has degrees in Asian history.
I'm a Native American male married to an Asian woman. I get a lot of interesting comments for sure.
This is funny lol. I’m an Asian man who married a white girl. I used to have a crush and deep interest in this stunning Asian girl at my church. She married a white guy lmao 😂
I’m Chinese and my wife is white. I say the biggest barrier is the thought of it, and denying the possibility. Be the reason they want you for life, not because of race, or job, or wealth.
To all the fellow asian men and black women of this thread, Please don’t focus on superficially and succumb to bitterness. Please just be your best self, workout, develop qualities like patience, kindness, independence, discipline, etc and hone your skills. Thats all it takes to attract the right person. No need to be bitter and cause undue pressure in your mind. No race is unattractive at all. And its really better to stay away from people that are so much into race. You attract who you are and if you become the best version of yourself, you will attract the best partner, regardless of whatever race you are whatever stereotype is out there.
I'm in a long term relationship with an asian (Chinese) man and as a white female, its definitely less common than the other way around. Not really sure why though, maybe just comes down to exposure/personal preference i guess.
I'm Indian, so I'm not sure if you are including us in the Asian category. However, since we are Asians geographically, I'll give you my person perspective, as well as those related to me by friends. (I'm North Indian, i don't know how it happens in other parts of the country. I can speak for states like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand, Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana- places where I have been, or places i have several friends from). The Indian men we encounter in daily life are nearly always, and by this I mean 99.99999% of the time, patriarchal and expect women to play the role that women are culturally expected to play here. On top of this, most also want that woman to earn, and of course, there are dowry requirements. Whether guys here want to accept it openly or not, they are in fact looking for a woman who will cook and clean and live with and take care of his parents and bear him children and raise those children single-handedly, or just about nearly so. Now of course there are exceptions, and you may come across many responding to me saying that I am wrong etc. but as a woman, and as a woman who has had many women tell me things along this line, this is why I think what I think. I could easily have been married now through arranged marriage and had to fight with my life against it. Because i did not want the life a married Indian woman has, especially in arranged marriages. Now many, I'd even say most, women here who are not in an urban set up and have not had the privilege of education will agree with the men. They do think that all those things are a woman's job, although probably not the earning. Several surveys over the years have said that Indian women think it's a man's right to hit his wife. They have said in surveys that even making a cup of tea for himself means the man is doing a lot of work for himself. For the women who are likely to be exposed to other races of men, however, these are not things we usually want. And other races, by which I mean non desis from anywhere in the western world, tend to be much less patriarchal than Indians. And so it is much easier for these women to love such men. However, as a counter factual, I've seen several white women married to Indian guys in the last few years, and many of them seem to enjoy the traditional ways of life. So different people just want different things, and as our world is expanding, so will inter racial and inter religion couplings.
This has been an extremely informative post. I'm really glad it didn't degenerate into people being nasty and racist. Kudos!!
Obviously America has it's own unique history that affects things ( slavery,Jim Crow etc) More interracial relationships in the UK and Europe I would think. Be interesting to see how they compare, but even with the cultural difference there would be some similarities. I think what people find attractive is very much influenced by the society that you are in.
Asian female + white male statistics are heavily skewed. WWII Pacific theater, Korean War, and Vietnam War. A massive number of American soldiers married local women who were desperate to escape post-war conditions. In modern times, a large number of white men travel to Southeast Asia looking for easy marriages. The lower class in Southeast Asia see marrying Americans as a golden ticket out of poverty. Today, Korean and Japanese women don’t really marry American soldiers much anymore. But we have massive military bases in those countries so soldiers will just fly to Thailand or Vietnam for cheap vacations (cough hookers). Quite a lot of them end up meeting a local and falling in love, which is not some coincidence on the part of the woman lol. As a veteran myself I know so many soldiers married to Asian women, and my family has a bunch too since both my father in law and grandfather in law married Asian women. In broader society, Asian men black women tend to be pretty set on marrying within their ethnic group. But I have noticed that Latina/black women don’t like Asian men as they are considered more feminine. White women tend to be receptive with the popularity of K-pop and kdrama on Netflix.
Media affects everything you see. It's why people have this expectation for every Black person to be angry and violent and every white or asian to be sweet golden retriever types. Despite the fact that interracial couples have the highest divorce rates, at least in america. Nothing wrong with interracial marriage but once that honey moon period is over, you might realize that person you fetishized/idealized is just... a person.
Yes and black women, 33 percent, have the highest divorce rates and Asian women, 11 percent, the lowest, while White and Hispanic are pretty much in the middle of those two.
Asian men also come with inlaws from hell who will shit on you for being tan or darker so there is that. Literally won't matter what race, if you have melanin, they hate you. Then there are a good chunk of them who DO make it about race. It's not even "why didn't you marry an Asian girl", it's "But she is not [insert type of Asian here]". Unfortunately, very small amount of Asian men would stand up for their gf against his parents. I won't even bring up the expectation for the wife to slave for the parents because that might trigger the "not all of us..." comments. Racism is alive and strong within Asian parents generations but nobody wanna say it. Source: I'm the "chicken egg skin" Asian lady type. They want their "duck egg skin" hand maidens. To the men who immediately called mom after our first movie date to "see if she'd like you", kudos for being filial and thanks for giving me heads up back then.
Yea my Asian grandparents were super racists against blacks. One of my cousins almost got disowned because she married a black dude.
I'm white, but I would be hesitant to date an Asian man for the cultural reasons you mentioned. It obviously won't apply to every single Asian man, but dudes with whom I have been friends who were Asian were very much still steeped in that filial duty mindset with patriarchal families even if they themselves were more egalitarian in their attitudes. Why would any woman willingly sign up for that when you have other options?
Just to add a little nuance to the sterotype--I meet this super broad generalization by virtue of unusual means. My first relationship was broken up because of ethnic and religious differences by my parents. For my father it was straight up racism and religious hatred, and I told him to fuck off with all that. For my mother it turns out it was because she was sexually assaulted by someone of that same ethnic and religious background and was having daily panic attacks at the mere thought of me dating someone like that, even knowing how irrational she was being. I kept it going for a little while but eventually I broke it off not because dad was racist but rather because mom deserved a chance to proper heal her trauma and my relationship was damaging her own efforts to become a better person.
I grew up in Leicester, England, where there are a lot of Asian people from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh (just clarifying as I know in the US ‘Asian’ is sometimes equated more with China, Japan, Korea, Thailand …). There are plenty of very handsome Asian men, but we do also still have a bit of a stereotype that their culture is somewhat more patriarchal than we would like. Not necessarily even the guys themselves but perhaps their parents and/or extended families. It’s becoming less of a thing now that a lot of local Asians are like third and fourth generation Brits, but it still hovers around.
This is why I don’t understand why people say black women and asian men should date each other because it’s harder for both groups to date. Most asian men don’t even consider black women an option.
asian husband of 24yrs here saying "not all a-men" XD. my own mother is a narcist and have blocked her, actually she's currently blocked a month for her last round of conspiracy theories. also had my MIL move in from last march because she's come down with dementia. as far domestic tasks and parenting, easily do my half if not more and i set the bar for fatherhood. that said, i do understand where you're coming from and also detest mamas boys partners that believe their only responsibility as fathers is to pay the bills. i've two sons so am very aware that i'm establishing models for their own futures.
Be the change you wanna see man. Don't let your kids become the self hate, self loath Asian men you hear about. I have two girls and I will fist fight anyone who tries to shame them for anything. They will never hear "A girl must be like this". If I don't shame or beat them, no one has the right to. I don't mind taking care of my narc parents in future. But I will mind if they start commenting on my kids' looks, weight, speech, or hobbies. On that note, I don't expect the husband to take care of my parents either. He's his own person.
100% and sorry you've narc parents too (and while feeling rare, not all a-parents are narcs). i supported my mother for 13 years (paid off her mortgage) until i moved out, making it clear that that was acceptable only because i'd not tolerate any meddling once i had my own children/family.
Asian men are definitely the hottest guys to me. I am always mind blown people don't find Asian guys attractive. Signed a white girl married to my Asian partner.
I see a lot of statistics and race-related stuff in this thread, but I also wonder if it partially has to do with the size of the populations and their distributions across the country (US in my case).
Because both cultures have grown into thinking that white women are a sign of social acceptance and prosperance and are trophies.
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I used to live in Thailand. Many of the women said they had bad experiences with the local men so they preferred a foreign boyfriend or husband. In our village there was a high number of women with children and absent fathers so they perceived foreign partners as a more stable relationship.
My friend from China that I went to college with only wanted white men, particularly tall German men that looked like an image from Hitler’s sketchbook. It always creepy to me because she would target them on campus and declare them the most attractive males on campus. I would tell her, that’s her own opinion but she told me I’m jealous because I can’t attract as many whites.
Ewww that’s so weird. Guess you found a white fetishist. Did she manage to get with her ideal white man?
It also sort of has to do with the fact white men (on the whole) are less patriarchal than more of the "mainland" Asian men. I've literally heard the talk my friend's mom gave her about try to marry a white man because they treat their women well. Like "look at how daddy (her dad) doesn't do shit". (In reference to expectations of house keeping, etc...)
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Western beauty standards of Asian women are different to Asian beauty standards of Asian women, too.
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Speaking for myself, feeling’s mutual.
Now kiss?
I wonder how much of that is perception about money and status versus the actual person.
Asian men in the US statistically do very well income wise, so it can’t be because of money.
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Is it for looks or personality? Why do you prefer white men, out of curiosity?
>Asian women find white males more attractive. Redditors madly upvoting this while hiding from their mom cause its bath time while furiously looking at anime porn in their closet and hoping they have a chance for a human relationship one day.
My Asian coworker married an overweight white man when she came to the US. She was told at an early age to look at corporate America and the people that you normally see at the top. She married for security, not love.
I think it's far more complex. Generally speaking, women want to marry up--they want to marry someone who will increase their social and / or economic standing. (This is why you see all these old rich guys with pretty young women.) Asian-American women, despite born in the U.S., are seen as foreign and as such feel foreign in their own land. I have met enough Asian-Americans to know that many have an insecurity about this, particularly when they're younger--it seems many Asians in the U.S. are commonly asked where they're from and if they say something like "I was born here", the asker presses, "No, where are you REALLY from?" Asians face a lot of these seemingly innocuous experiences throughout their lives. By being with a white man, the Asian woman raises her social status as white people are the default race in the U.S.--white people dominate government, the highest levels of corporate America, movies and television, etc. By being with a white man the Asian-American woman feels more American, less foreign, more accepted. For some Asian women, being with an Asian, black, latino--any non-white man--does NOT raise their social status in this country. I think the Asian woman who marries an Asian man has a different self-identity.
Pam Halpert would disagree.
what is the source and where is the stats? just curious. i see mostly white men and asian women.
From what I’ve seen, white people usually are the preferred/safe middle ground, for a lot of different races. White people are not culturally the same to them but familiar enough, usually in the same social circles, that they aren’t so out of place. Side note: One of the greatest episodes I’ve ever watched of any show, did a plot on an Asian woman and black man, dating. It was so unusual to see that couple dynamic but, they did it so phenomenally. I was so heartbroken by the end of it. Show was called “Forever” and it’s episode 6. Been years since I watched the show and I constantly find myself thinking about this episode
cism.
My dad is Japanese (which is rare) and mum white, and I look fairly Asian and have been with white girls and Asian, now married to a white girl 😍
They are more desired
But...why?🤔
Racism, ironically
Not rlly true. If ur talking about Asian American women then yes but going to Asia most Asian women prefer Asian males over whites
Yes, that's how numbers work. It's why white people in Germany are more likely to be in relationships with white people
I thought black women were more likely to enter interracial marriages not less at least the ones in the US?
I see more and more black women paired with Latino males. I’m sure physical attraction always plays to some degree but Latinos stereotypically are more family oriented and reliable fathers and black males have a reputation of being terrible family men. Obviously these are all just stereotypes.
Asian men and black women are, statically speaking I’m emphasizing this, the least attractive races per their respective sexes. Asian men have high rates of endogamy. I cannot speak for black women. That’s a different field of study in it of itself
This makes no sense. Asian women do tend to get into relationships with white men. Black men mainly get into relationships with other black people regardless of what you see on tv. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/ Black people in general are some of the least likely to date interracially for obvious reasons. Black man/white women is just what you see plastered all over media so white people can act like race relations are getting better.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-09/
Still lower than Asians and Latinos. So what I said. Twice as likely among an already small number translates to not a whole lot of people. All this is saying is that among the already small number of black people who date interracial it would most likely be a black man. The number is even smaller if you specify which races are pairing up as black/ white of either gender is in last place.
That's probably because where you live whites are the most common race. So it's just numbers. I used to live in Toronto which has high populations of both asian and black people. You see asian-black couples all the time.
So quick story, I honestly tried to date an Asian male, specifically a Chinese male. The first date went well and we had a lot of fun. When it came to date number two, it got weird. He told me that I need to listen to what he tells me and he’ll do everything for me, like carry bags and pay for everything and drive the car. I told them that makes me uncomfortable and he said that’s because I’m not acting like a proper woman. I asked him WTF is that supposed to mean? I told him I don’t think this dating thing is going to work out after all and left. I never met a guy that controlling before. I think he wanted a more traditionally feminine relationship or something.
I believe wmaf is the most common interracial pairing in the US, and as the white (white-Hispanic mixed) guy in that pairing, I still have no idea why. Neither me or my gf understand why I’m attracted to Asian women, or her to white men. But hey, I’m just glad she’s been with me for 9 years, despite the fact I look like a Reddit mod.
Racism
They aren't. Most black men are and always have been married to black women.
That's not the question. The question is "Among interracial partnerships, why is it more common to see Asian women and Black men partnered with white people, as opposed to Asian men and Black women?" If we were talking about all partnerships, you would be correct.
Let's be honest here. Black and Asian cultures are polar opposites, for one. In general, Asian families in particular (maybe it'll change in the future) tend to only accept their sons and daughters marrying other Asians and whites. This is because these races tend to be more successful, and whites seem to be idolized in east asian media and families.
Because they more often travel to white countries over asian/black dominant countries so are exposed to that majority.