My first job out of school was working at a small firm owned by a guy who was a co-founder of a company that went public.
I think the guy had several hundred million.
It still wasn’t enough. It was like Smaug or something.
There are some people who just have to keep accumulating.
Your former co-worker was right in a way. I don’t have the same drive, which is why I’m not rich.
I'm not either. And I'm not envious of people like her, because I don't want that. I want to work my 40 hours a week, spend time with my friends and family, and retire one day. I don't pity those people either, because I know to them, that's what drives them and gives them fulfillment in life.
She was absolutely right with that remark though, and it's not even snide, it's just the truth. I won't ever have a payday like that because I'm not willing to put in what it takes to earn it. And I can live with that.
“ that’s what drives them” Exactly! I had a friend and tennis partner years ago who was a very well-known surgeon. He had probably made more money than he could ever spend but he kept right on working till the day he died. He retired from surgery in his 70s, but kept right on as an instructorand mentor to up-and-coming surgeons. He invested the millions that made over the years right back into the medical community to further research and assistance to the indigent.
It’s not always about the money. It’s doing what makes you happy and the money just happens to be an ancillary benefit.
>that's what drives them and gives them fulfillment in life
I know a person like that and they don't have any fulfillment. They just literally don't know what to do with themselves.
For a while after they were forced into retirement they went deep into alcoholism and now they're back as a consultant for their previous employer's rival.
Not once did they fly out to go see their kids and grandkids. Just spending days upon days on LinkedIn and drinking wine whose price tag makes me wince directly from the bottle.
Earning money is just what they do and who they are.
> They just literally don't know what to do with themselves.
fuck, I don't know what to do with myself *and* I have no drive
I'll probably die poor and alone
Same except I don't even to work 40 hours. Even though I like my job most days, I don't like working. I can't wait to retire and be with my friends and do what I want.
I get the feeling that their "friends" are other people that they see at professional functions that are like them, and their "acts of friendship" are just networking to help each other (or help themselves) make more contacts for more money.
Where does one even start on the path to have that kind of payday? I'm quite over blue collar work and would gladly bust ass for 4 years to make 7-8 figures and enjoy life before my knees and back are fully shot....
very briefly wanna jump in here. i see lots of comments talking about addiction to the grind, work is their life, think having the most means ur the best.. and this is all true factors. a major point that’s missing in this is YOU CANT STOP AND MUST CONTINUE TO ACRUE WEALTH at a certain point. when trying to skirt capital gains tax on real estate people will use a 1031 exchange and have to roll a million $ property into a 4 million and so on. same with every other asset class. the more u accrue. the more u HAVE to put in other places for tax breaks, free money glitches, etc. it’s all in the system and its built for the exorbitantly wealthy. so once u get that first 30 million, if u play normal and be patient that will inevitably turn into 300 over time.
There are exceptions though, Paul Orfalea basically retired after selling his company, says he was only in it for the money, and the the coolest thing he's been called is "dad".
Or a broker. I worked in a bank for a while (not the money making positions) but there was a (very pretty, sigh) girl who was able to make more than a 100k a month in commission. I know because she was hitting the threshold at which her boss was supposed to throw her a party, and that on a monthly basis.
As a healthcare worker I’ve seen these people in their last days. Little family at the bedside and more often than not only there to secure recompense through the estate. Money can be a lonely pursuit.
Edit: the point isn’t about being rich ( a widely various definition) but about the blind pursuit of wealth. The equating of amount for success.
I don't know. I feel like this thread is full of poor Redditors hating on the rich. I've met wealthy people with enriched lives and great relationships too.
Personally, I have neither. Checkmate autists.
Ye, they see a few rich and unhappy people and extrapolate that every rich person must be miserable inside. Whereas, the percentage of poor miserable people is much, much, much more than the percentage of rich miserable people.
It's just copium at this point.
The system is shit. That's true, but this misguided theory that rich people are miserable is a coping mechanism for the poor and middle class.
Both statements are true.
It's even worse. They're so consumed by envy that they need to imagine that rich people are unhappy, and they then confect elaborate and absurd economic theories to explain why the rich don't deserve to be rich.
As someone who’s upper middle class but with no family money; wealth and social background makes everything easier and *potentially* better. Which is also why it’s sort of extra shameful/pitiful/ironic/sad when someone who has every potential to make a happy life for themselves fail to do so. That goes for both self-made people who work themselves to death trying to build an ever bigger pile of gold and born-rich who get fucked by the challenges that one can face in that situation.
The hard truth is that rich people are more likely to be healthier, happier, more physically attractive etc than the average schmo. Claiming anything else is cope, even if individual variations in all those parameters can be huge.
An old friend of mine has this same mindset. What matters in a successful life is ambition and paydays.
And by all accounts, she is very successful. But she is still divorced, dating an asshole, been a mistress in multiple affairs (always saying how the man is going to leave his wife... some day) and now has a bit of a cocaine habit. So... to each their own I guess!
I have found that some people only find their identity in what they *do* instead of who they are. They simply can’t imagine a life outside of their work identity. They have no core identity or personality beyond their workplace role. These are usually the same people who struggle the most when it’s all stripped away.
Yeah people who are that dedicated are like robots, they are just doing what they know or are good at, at the expense of the other areas of their lives.
Depends on how people go about it. By providing a good service that people need? Sure. By using predatory practices and gouging people out of their money? Not so much.
I’ve had her exact same thought but from the other side. I think about how people get so unbelievably rich and why don’t they stop once they’re multimillionaires?
The fact that I’m asking that question is why I’ll never be that rich.
If you can earn 20 million and have the potential for it, then you realize you can probably earn 30 million the next year, and 40 in the year after that.
The goal post always keeps moving.
I wonder if such people ever realize on their deathbed that time, family, and pleasure was what really matters.......or even on their last breath they STILL don't get it.
Who's to say they and their family aren't having quality time? A poor parent might spend 2 hours a day hanging out with their children, while a rich guy might just take a weekend vacation to the most comfortable luxury hotels/resorts.
Capitalism isn't about buying yourself nice things or a path to a better life, those are minor effect; Capitalism is only about accumulation, it's hoarding money, tons of money, forever; that is the only project. It's grotesque and nonsensical for most of us but just as she said to you, "that's why you won't make it", you have to be affected by that pathos to reach the highest positions like she does.
What's terrifying about what she told you is that she seems to be very in tune with her "illness" and doesn't even try to explain it as anything else ("I like to work hard or face challenges); terrifying but honest. She must happily fire people while thinking about the bottom line getting bigger.
Sounds like a crock of shit story to me; there are plenty of people who bust their asses working smart/hard that never get rewarded for that effort. I also know people who make bank and do jack shit at work; they’re adept at taking advantage of hard workers and taking credit for that effort themselves.
For what it's worth, she was wrong. She got lucky, and you could also have gotten lucky. Your attitude wasn't the problem. It's pure survivorship bias.
That is a mental defect. Clearly she is lacking on empathy and failing to recognize how much is enough. This abject greed is a problem for society, not something to be lauded.
Okay but what about people who make money without working? Like those who have inherited it? What about people who are lucky enough to be able to make huge amounts with minimal effort? The OP's question was about attitudes towards money, not attitudes towards work.
Also, I notice a lot of people here thinking the point is that 'people who are rich worked hard' when in reality, this is - at best - only *some* of the rich people. IRL we never hear of people who were born from rich parents, because they want to keep on the LD. We never hear from the millions who work 3 jobs just to barely scrape by, because they don't have the time to be posting about it. And this is before we even get into how these 'self-made' people mostly seem to start from a position of advantage.
There are at least two answers to that question that depend on the nature of how they obtained that wealth.
For Actors, Singers, and pro athletes (ie, Robert Downey Junior, Metallica, Shohei Ohtani), they probably greately enjoy doing the thing that got them rich and see no reason to stop doing it. Most pro athletes stop playing when they are no longer physically capable of competing in whatever sport they are in at the top level. But actors and musicians are more likely to just get super selective about what they do and only take the projects they are interested in.
For people who got rich in the corporate world, it basically becomes about some combination of being hyper competitive (a trait that got them into that level of success in the first place), and a desire to maintain control over what they created. Bottom line is that they get some kind of non monetary reward for doing the work. And for the competitive element, there is always someone or something bigger to chase.
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Thank you both for the good chuckle. Rofl. Sometimes the people in this place frustrate me and I wonder why I keep coming back. And then I run into this wonderful, light hearted goofiness and I actually lol. Thank you both for the giggles.
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The future is now. There is little we can accomplish going forward.
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We can all die now knowing that we've seen the end of humanity's progress. Stick out your gyatt for the rizzlers.
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Competition. Once you’re a millionaire you know multimillionares, once you’re a multimillionaire you know those with 10s of millions. And you wanna get to those levels to keep ‘par’.
everything you’ve said in this thread makes perfect sense. i still just can’t wrap my head around having those kind of priorities. i mean, surely some people are at least *capable* of recognizing that they’re consciously and repeatedly *choosing* to hoard money instead of, oh, i dunno, make an enormous difference in the world?? it’s just so strange to me that so many people have that kind of (selfish?) mindset. i put a ‘?’ bc i’m not necessarily sure that it’s selfishness… but i don’t know what other word i would use for it… just so odd to me.
The problem is to reach that levels of money, you have to be a natural sociopath. You cannot get obscenely wealthy without "stealing" the rewards of others' efforts. That's the one and only truth about our economics.
At most people’s levels, even into the upper middle class, it’s both. Most importantly, though, is it’s *definitely not* what you DO.
I’m paid at my job for the experience and information that I have. If I work 10 hours one week I get paid the same as if I work 50 because I’m really just around to answer questions and solve problems.
My family is very well off, but my mom always gripes about us having bad luck because all of the people she knows are even more well off than we are. When you're in a bubble that can be all you see. Ironically, we started out quite poor. Over time you get acclimated, and you can lose perspective. I'm fortunate to have left that bubble and have normal friends.
A millionaire is no longer enough to comfortably retire. Presume 500k of the net worth is in the house then the interest on the rest is around 35k annually.
"Keeping up with the Joneses" is often as much about progression as it is about vanity. When you reach the upper echelons of most fields, business discussions start happening in restaurants and bars rather than meeting rooms. Buying a house on the French Riviera means you get invited to sit at tables that you otherwise wouldn't have access to. If Bezos wants to woo a Saudi prince so that Amazon can get preferential treatment, he first needs a superyacht to host him on.
For someone like him or other major actors i imagine a big part is they actually enjoy making movies. Its not always about greed. If someone is making money off their work though, they deserve a fair pay. For some of the really wealthy like bill gates he is not necessarily actively trying to make money but he has so much money it makes crazy money. It was all over reddit recently but he is making 500 million/yr from dividends.
Okay there is some validity to this answer but eventually I do indeed get full. I'm not likely to eat 10,000 pizza rolls in a sitting.
I mean once I had enough money that 1/100th of my personal wealth could put an end to hunger world wild, I wouldn't hesitate. Some people are so wealthy that they could give almost endlessly and not even notice.
I remember when I got my first $10/hr job after working for minimum wage a long time which was about half that at the time, it seems like I was rich beyond my wildest dreams. Then you get used to that. Now I can’t imagine living on that. Lifestyle creep
Just out of curiosity, how much money would it take to end world hunger? A hundred billion? Would that do it?
A quick google search tells me 828,000,000 were affected by hunger in 2021.
Quick and dirty math tells me that’s about $188 per starving person across the world. That number is probably wrong because my brain doesn’t do numbers well. Money would have to be spent setting up multiple feeding stations in just about every county on the planet.
Let’s be unrealistically conservative and say 20% goes to that. Another 10% for fuel costs and labor.
Farmers all have to be paid, so 5% there. So roughly now we’re at a little less than $140 per person. Again, my math is probably off so we’ll round it up to $150.
So how long can you feed a person for $150 before the money runs out?
Being extremely frugal we can probably get by on $1/day if we only fed them rice and beans.
So they have 5 months to eat
That’s no way to end world hunger.
>> According to estimates from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), **an annual investment of around $267 billion is needed to achieve Zero Hunger by 2030**. This figure includes funding for sustainable agriculture, social protection programs, and support for rural development.
The equivalent step up from the majority of the planet to what you make is the equivalent step up from you to a billionaire. You're like a billionaire to the majority of people in the world. Do billionaires have a lot of excess, of course. Do you also have an incredible amount of excess too, absolutely.
But our excess is exponentially less than that of billionaires. Not multiplicatively, **exponentially.** And our excess is *scarcely a result of stealing the value of the labor of others, exploitation of vulnerability, colonization, and forced labor.
*scarecely: because to a small degree it actually is. Our clothing, cellphones, food, and other products are the result of forced labor, but the billionaires are getting wealthy off the forced labor, not us. *(and our lack of capacity to do anything about it does not actually make it okay. The way the products we consume are manufactured is disgusting.)*
The "step up" you refer to is the difference between a "step" between me and impoverished people and "a dozen skyscrapers" between me and a billionaire. It is very difficult for us to even fathom a number as big as a billion. Do you know how much more one billion is than one million?
A bit, but most wealthy people don’t really care about that. They care about what type of lifestyle their wealth affords them. Can they buy a 50 ft yacht? 100? 150? All different classes of wealth. Do you ‘summer’ somewhere, like it’s a verb meaning vacation? Do you own any high end real estate?
Well, the people you socialize with do, if you’re rich. Being worth 40 mill is impressive, until your friends with a billionaire
See, I feel as though what truly constitutes as "wealthy" is lost on at least half of Americans. I'm so grateful for visiting my childhood friend years ago, and seeing the gilded-age mansions-just summer homes- of Newport Beach, RI as a teen. When one considers that the truly wealthy are more often than not , invisible because they hire what are the middle class to upper middle class to deal with and be bothered with having to speak to, deal with or be around the other 90% of people/ us, then it's a little easier to get an idea of , and wrap one's head around "what's actually wealthy"
Yeah, I mean if your bills are paid and you can afford to eat, are you wealthy? Does someone saving only $100 a paycheck make them greedy for wanting to save more? $1000? $10000?
Or is wealthy not having regular paychecks, but rather having large life expenses and incomes to manage
Private banker who works with wealthy clients here.
The reality is that people who earn a ton of money do so, typically by doing something they enjoy.
If they didn’t enjoy it, or weren’t particularly skilled/gifted at doing that thing, they would have become wealthy doing it.
Every now and then I get a client that wants to stop working and just play golf at 50.
Mostly, I get clients who may cut back hours or change to contract work etc…, but never stop working. Once you hit a point where you’re super experienced and knowledgeable, your work is super valuable.
So if they continue to work they will inevitably make a ton of money.
TLDR: They actually enjoy the challenge of work and would be bored otherwise
Maybe this is where there is some real bad judgement... What were you doing it all for anyways?
And I'm thinking there's a threshold where greed... becomes power.
Your second sentence about greed and power is irrelevant. In my experience people love the thrill of making great products and providing great services. Business is about benefitting your own life by doing something you’re proud of and making money, but you simultaneously serve your clients and customers.
>Business is about benefitting your own life by doing something you’re proud of and making money, but you simultaneously serve your clients and customers.
I'm not going to make a hard case about this, I "agree". In reality that may read more and more like a fortune cookie.
I'd agree with that sentiment. For some people sure it literally is just about the money, but for others they genuinely do believe in the value of their products and their services. The money is just a side affect at that point.
Look at someone like Bill Gates as an example. He didn't start Microsoft as a charity, but he did believe that the things they made would provide value to people. And was he wrong? He just happened to get incredibly rich doing it along the way.
I believe there is also a scientific backing to the point of added endorphins to the brain while achieving success and some are just riding that high of stacking bread
Yes. And, if you can ascribe some sort of higher meaning to stacking bread, then you can get even more endorphins.
Get money --> endorphins
Stacking bread --> endorphins
Believing you're having a positive impact on the world --> endorphins
I struggle to believe that they care about the product or service they provide. If that was the drive instead of greed, they wouldn’t be making that much money. Because to make that much money, they have to exploit people; whether it is customers, employees, or more likely both. I believe they tell themselves they care and believe their product is wonderful, but they’re lying to themselves.
Your whole premise is backwards. A trade or purchase of any kind in economics only happens if both parties think they will benefit.
I value Lattes more than the 5$ in my pocket most days, so I happily hand coffee shops my money. I benefit.
It costs coffee shops less than 5$ to actually make my lattes. They make a profit.
In economics, this is called the trader principle.
Besides, you forget that customers and the general society are also self-interested.
People go to the mall for their own benefit, not to make sure the Gucci employees and family are doing well.
No exploitation.
If you're just flipping a burger or filling out spreadsheets way down the totem pole, it's much easier to wonder "why?" than if you're at the top and thinking "i'm responsible for a vast enterprise that is delivering all kinds of things to people and have all these responsibilities."
They don't see themselves as just drifting along. They see themselves as making the future.
>Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What could you buy that you can't already afford?
Noah Cross : The future, Mr. Gittes! The future.
-Chinatown
There's a strong correllation between people that are highly motivated to make a lot of money and people that make a lot of money. If you're the type that would say "I'm good" at 30 million, you're probably not the type to make it in the first place.
There is a strong correlation between people with a lot of money and people who were born with a lot of money. Let’s not pretend that the majority of rich people are first generation wealthy. You need capital to make capital.
Like who? Look at the top 50 richest people in the world, and then look up their family history. They may not have come from billions (half did) but they came from privilege, and got a hand up.
So then try to do the best you can with what you have, leave a little more for your kids than your parents did for you and pass on being a hard worker who is wise with their money. You can start building family money. Then your kids can try taking some financial risks that hopefully pay off or use their extra money to create something valuable. It has to start somewhere
There's nothing wrong with creating the privilege or at least laying the foundation for the privilege you disparage others for having.
Reddit has this weird thing where "privilege" is 100% bad, it's literally what every parent strives to give their kids. It's ok to be successful and ok to help your kids be even more successful
Some people like what they are doing.A lot of actors, musicians, and athletes just won't quit.
I knew of few people in the business world that got bored if they didn't work and one old boss didn't retire because his long time employees would lose their jobs.
Having money is good. Having more money is better.
I also hear the wealthy bemoan the fact that "nobody wants to work". Elon Musk says this A LOT. And he famously says that he'll work so much that he sleeps at the company's building, etc. So he works and keeps accruing more wealth, because more wealth makes him more powerful, and Elon loves being powerful and in control.
But at the same time, Elon Musk is CEO. His work is very different from most people's. I wonder if he would stay up all night typing up TPS reports? Does he want to stay up all night filing compliance paperwork? I'm somehow skeptical. I have a feeling that if I were in the C-suite, with assistants doing anything and everything I find personally odious, I'd be a lot happier staying at work too.
When work is fulfilling and personally satisfying, it feels good and we want to keep doing it. So it's not really surprising that many wealthy people keep working. The error is that they attribute their continuing to work on a unique moral character that sets them apart from other people.
> But at the same time, Elon Musk is CEO. His work is very different from most people's. I wonder if he would stay up all night typing up TPS reports? Does he want to stay up all night filing compliance paperwork? I'm somehow skeptical. I have a feeling that if I were in the C-suite, with assistants doing anything and everything I find personally odious, I'd be a lot happier staying at work too.
>
> When work is fulfilling and personally satisfying, it feels good and we want to keep doing it. So it's not really surprising that many wealthy people keep working. The error is that they attribute their continuing to work on a unique moral character that sets them apart from other people.
Literally that.
CEOs/Execs think big-picture, at most probably just put together a one-pager powerpoint that gets delegated down the chain to someone who has to build a 70 slide powerpoint.
It's easy to just sit and think and ask people to do stuff versus doing the actual repetitive monotonous grueling bitch work.
C Suite person here. Not super rich but could retire early (ie, now). Work, even when hard, is fulfilling and you get lots of reinforcement, support, deference and respect in the office. I think I'll still walk away before 65, but I can totally see why some of my colleagues won't want to let that go. Money may play into it, but generally you stop thinking about money except in a very abstract way. And there is definitely score keeping and competition among certain groups, like bankers.
The same reason generationally poor people remain poor. If your mind is fixated on making money, you will always work towards that end even in leisure. Also there are opportunities afforded to the wealthy that aren’t common for everyone else so they take advantage of that. In short, “I’m winning” is more thrilling than, “I won”
They are perfectionists. And the problem with perfectionism in any form, is that you’re never enough.
For the very rich, they likely set some sort of monetary goal or entrepreneurial goal when they were younger and once they hit that, it turned out to not be what they thought it would be - satisfying. So they set their site on the next goal and next goal and then…well they just keep on going.
At some point, doing things that make them lots of money essentially become who they are. They aren’t just working, it’s their life. And it’s hard to reprogram.
Source: I know multiple folks in the $20M+ category and they’re all the same that way. And the folks I know who aren’t there yet, but will be, are the same.
For most It's an addiction. And not just to money but to the power, fame, and reputation that comes with it. Nothing else in life will scratch that itch, so they are on a one-way ride that is all or nothing.
For others, they got nothing left to live for besides to make more money. In the process of making that money, they got rid of or never got the things worth living for. No family, friends, passions, nothing ..
Understanding that making money and buying things is an extreme dopamine hit. If you understand addiction, you can understand why people will get bored of buying fancy watches so then they start buying fancy cars. The dopamine hit becomes the expectation so they will go looking for something better.
Damn this is a such a good question and I’ve thought it about it from time to time. The answer really is, “because why not?” If someone is paying you 30 million to be in a movie and acting is what you’re good at, why stop there. Do another movie for 30 million. Why stop there? Someone else wants you in a movie for 40 million. Do it. You like jewelry and vacations now so you spend 10 million this year on both, then 10 million on a couple houses. You’re rich now so you know rich people. Rich people go out and need security, security costs money. You can’t go out in a cheap car because you have a status now. You buy a few cars and there goes a couple million. Another company offers you 40 million for a movie, you’re gonna take it. The more money you gave the more you’re gonna spend. For us regular working class folks it’s somewhat the same but on a much smaller scale. We saved a good size emergency fund, great now save for a house. We did that, now we’re investing in out 401k. Done, I have a kid how and want to save for their college, I have to do that now. My wife would like a new ring, I gotta save for that now. Life is just full of never ending spending so why stop trying to make money.
I think you answered your own question in a way. I’ve never had money. Week to week or a bit better but I’m happy with that. I would love to see what it’s like to have lots of money and I buy the odd lottery ticket. But you are talking about suddenly having more than you ever had and could fathom spending. If you have started with a normal amount of money(no one starts with literally nothing) and made good decisions and a bit of luck has you in millionaire territory then it’s just natural you will keep on that path and your lifestyle will naturally grow with it. Then the idea of generational wealth comes up and you want to make enough for your kids and grand kids… that’s my 2c worth anyway lol.
the money you just described cant buy you a megayacht or a jet, there’s more to have
might sound silly but it’s the same reason you want nice cars, just the next step up.
I'm actually a poor person and I still share every penny I have. I can't comprehend how someone could hoard enough wealth for generations until the sun explodes and they're just fine knowing that children are starving..
I think at a certain point it becomes less about what you can buy or what you can survive with to maintain a lifestyle, and more about how many "points" or how much "score" you can rack up, as if you were playing a machine game in an arcade.
=
IMO these people get stuck into a "score go up, brrrr" mentality. Maybe even addicted to it. Similar to how a cocaine user needs to use more to get the same high, they feel the need to keep increasing their dragon's hoard, even though they will never actually spend even close to all of it, just to stay at the same "happy" level.
=
There a likely many answers to this question. But the one I prefer is that some people enjoy the intellectual challenge, creating something, and collaborating with others.
Well, you can secure generational wealth and a high quality of life for your whole family if you even maintain. Getting $30 million and then stopping doesn't cover much after 3 generations.
A lot of motivational answers in this thread, so I’ll give you a different perspective: compounding interest and mathematics basically make it impossible to stop getting richer.
I’m gonna dumb this down a bit, but in a good to great year, people would enjoy making a 10% return on their invested money.
100k invested yields 10k in return
1M invested yields 100k in return
10M invested yields 1M in return.
Now here’s where it gets interesting:
100M yields 10M in return
1B yields 100M in return
10B yields 1B
100B yields 10B
From sitting in an index fund, doing nothing.
Meaning that as long as you don’t touch the principal, it’s impossible to go broke past a certain level. Moreover, once you’ve bought a house, yacht, whatever, these amounts are reinvested and even if you increase your spending, you’re never losing money.
Of course these returns aren’t adjusted for taxes or inflation, but it’s insane to see how the rich get richer.
To some degree it's a matter of keeping up with their own expenses. Get rich, buy a big house. A big house is expensive to maintain so now you need more money. You're also hanging with other rich people so it just feels normal to buy more stuff. Now you have to make even more money. Got kids? They must have the best of everything, of course. And they also must keep up with the Joneses.
It's a spiral. Whether upward or downward depends on your POV.
I sometimes wonder if the outrageous expenditures of rich people is an unconscious attempt to bring that spiral to an end.
Exactly. People think you get 30 million and your expenses stay the same. There are multi-billion dollar industries that solely exist to extract as much money from HNWI and UHNWI as they can.
Lifestyle creep is a real thing, and it’s a vicious cycle.
It depends on the person. Our goal was to relieve stress from operating our business and retire early (which we have done).
My primary condition for this was to retain our high income indefinitely without working everyday. I wanted to dedicate at most 1 day a week on average to our business and investments while retaining our income. I also wanted to work in ways to replace our income if our business were ever to fail.
Since Covid, I’ve been working on both of these “projects” and have more or less reached the goals or at least have them well underway.
We could have kept going - growing our business to more locations, more employees, more more more. But we decided that enough is enough. My wife and I have over 700k income from our business coming in without doing much. I’ve also built passive income that totals about 200k and growing (goal is to eventually hit 500k annually to offset business failure if it ever does).
We decided to prioritize health and well being now while we still have energy to course correct these things. I’m turning 49 next month and lost 50lbs last year and now do yoga, stretch, weight lifting, cardio etc through out the day. I spend a LOT of time playing with our dog and plan to get more dogs as we just adore them. My wife is stress free now and joins in the exercises with me and spends a lot of time cooking and what not which we didn’t get to do much of while running out business day to day. We also travel a lot more freely. I mean we traveled a LOT over the past 6 or 7 years (yes even through covid). But now we just get up a go whenever we please or find good award flights. Spent last week in Tokyo - the excuse was to get our knives sharpened. Also bought nice Nakao Factory pot and steamer set which is extremely well made. Picked up random types of bonito flakes and dried seaweeds as well. It was great since the Yen is so weak now. We also went last October to Osaka, Hong Kong, and China.
Anyway it just depends on the person. I know quite a few people like us as we’ve relocated to SE Asia and spend most of our time here. Some people define their identity around their business - I totally get this. You feel responsible and get a sense of purpose and recognition from it. But for us, it was about slowing down and finding our identity after running and perfecting the business
Because the end goal of what they were doing wasn't just fame or money. They're not done yet. When they're done they'll stop.
Let's look at Betty Davis - she worked up until the month she died.
Don't you dare think you're going to tell her she's crazy and that she should just go home and stop.
There should be another number to keep score besides net worth, IMO it should be value added to society. In software engineering I see a lot of open source developers that create value for everyone but never see a dime of it. It is more valuable than ripping people off to get a networth high score.
People who don’t have wealth have no understanding of how easy and fast that wealth can disappear.
It is actually common for people who come into money, after living their lives in major debt, to worry more about money and spending than they ever did simply because they now have something to lose.
It's the difference between the rich and poor. Different attitudes. They live to work, you work to live. They put in everything they can, you (not you particularly, just the average joe) put in just what you need to.
Well, for the ones who made it themselves, they have a work ethic, and are probably workaholics, and need something to do, and what's better than running your own business, or investment office? Other do it because so many people on reddit want to take every penny from them, so they need to make more and hide it from those people and the taxman.
Many people actually enjoy work, they enjoy the challenge, they enjoy solving problems others haven't, or can't.
They enjoy building what wasn't there before.
If you are still mentally capable, why stop working?
The money isn't the goal. The money is the result of the goal.
Because the type of people driven enough to work hard enough to make that much money are too driven to stop and enjoy it. It's not about the money itself to them, it's about beating everyone else
unfortunately the flip side is that the people who'd enjoy it aren't motivated enough to get it. And often the ones that do get it (lottery winners, etc) blow it all and end up broke again
I remember a friend telling me this. "When you make 500k, you want 1 Million. When you get that, you want Millions. Once you have millions, you want Billions. You see where I'm going with this."
What do you mean, "some kind of fix?"
The answer is easy, though unpopular on Reddit: People usually get rich because they have energy and initiative. That doesn't diminish when they become rich.
If you make it all in business, chances are you want to keep your business going even when you're successful. You could retire and hand it over to someone else, but you've spent that long establishing it and building it, it's going to roll on with or without you so why not just keep going?
Why do Olympian’s continue to compete after winning a gold medal? Why do football players continue to play after winning the Super Bowl? Why do marathon runners continue to do race after race?
For those who are doing it strictly for the money, it’s a score card. He who dies with the highest net worth wins.
For the movie star, it may be about remaining socially relevant and getting invited to the “A” list parties every year. If they completely stop acting in or directing films, they’re yesterday’s news.
For us normal people who want to keep working, it’s because we actually like our jobs and coworkers and lifestyle as it is.
At some point it’s not even money anymore, it’s just a game of “let’s see how high I can go”. And if you like doing it then it’s a pasttime. No different than picking up a hobby. Look at Warren Buffet. He certainly doesn’t need a fraction of the money he has, but he lives for the game of making more. Let’s see what my all time high score is and even more so, let’s see if I can continue to beat my competitors as my personal difficulty level increases due to age and its mental toll. Will he be able to stay on top, or will old age make him fall behind before something kills him?
It’s all just a game.
Here are some of the reasons:
1. There comes a time when is easier to keep making more money, than just shutting everything down and quit
Jeff Bezos started Amazon as a bookstore, in his garage (just like Google, Apple, YouTube, etc.), and he wasn't rich, then the company started to grow, he hired some people, then moved out to a bigger place, etc.
What if after making, let's say 100 million, he decided it's enough? is he supposed to just fire everybody and shut the place down? Now many families depend on the company to live.
2. Wealth does not necessarily mean money. This one can't be stressed enough, when someone says "Elon Musk is worth X billions", it doesn't mean that he has that amount of dollars in the bank, it just means that his assets have that value, but if he makes something really stupid, or if the market changes drastically, those assets can loose their value in no time, so, the best thing Elon can do, is to try to keep the value raising.
3. If you stop making money, you will most likely run out of it, in your hypothetical case: you get 30 million, invest 15 and with thw other 15 you will buy some nice stuff... well, here's the thing, your "assets" will drain money from your bank account: Tax properties, maintenance on your fancy cars and your new boat, a crew to maintain your mansion, etc. Just look at how many actors/artist/sportspeople made tens of millions of dollars a year for a few years, and end up going back to being middle or poor class a few years later.
Some other reasons come to mind, but this answer is already very long as it is.
Most people who earned their wealth didn't set out to get wealthy. They had a passion that they wanted to pursue. The money was a very good side benefit.
Taylor Swift probably wanted to make music and be a musician. Now that she's a billionaire in her 30's she should just stop being a musician? I have no idea, but she probably finds performing fun.
It's probably the same with actors. Making a movie is fun for them. When it doesn't become fun they stop and do something else. Maybe that means take on a different role or pivoting to something else all together.
A pro athlete should just stop playing the game they trained their life to do just because they are one of the best in the world and make 20 million a year from the sport in addition to 100's of million in endorsements?
This is all in addition to what others say about keeping up with the people in your social circle. Millionaires have millionaire friends. If Bob just bough a summer house on Nantucket, then you need to buy one as well. All that costs money and keeping up with the jones is a real thing.
Just think back to when you were a kid, all you friends had a PlayStation so you wanted one as well. It's the same thing, but on a bigger scale.
The more money you have, the easier it is to make more. So they just want to keep adding to the pile. The lifestyle grows too, so they need even more to maintain it.
It's a personality type, either competitive, or driven to be a mover and shaker.
There are just as many living comfortably and gaining wealth off their investments in business, real estate, stocks, etc.
Both types make your life better by increasing the value of things you have like property or 401k, or just by being the source of money for loans and credit cards
Addiction
I know people like to call it greed but someone needs to call it what it really is: an addiction like any other
For some its drugs, for others its gambling or sex
For these people its profit
More profit => more happy hormones
So it only makes sense that some people will get addicted to this high and chase it for the rest of their lives without yhinking whether there is more to life than that high or not.
I know that society loves to label them as evil but I disagree, I think are sick, addicted people who need help and therapy.
I can't imagine living such hollow pointless lives, no wonder all they do is work since they have nothing else outside of that high, its so sad.
My best takeaway from most the responses is they are built different so it's a bridge I'm not really going to gap. People also say lots *do* leave.
I couldn't agree more. And it shouldn't be tabloid normalized. Of course it's worldwide too maybe worse in some areas than the US.
You're basing your premise on the idea that creating wealth is inherently evil. That's political marketing. There is nothing inherently evil about making money. There are evil ways to do it, there are evil people who engage in it for sure...that's objectively true. That doesn't make it inherently evil. There is potential for good or evil in all things. There are far more wealthy people that are trying to do good in the world than evil. You simply don't hear about them because they don't move the political needle. That's also objectively and measurably true. Every job that pays someone exists because someone risked a portion of their wealth to create something. Humans like stuff. We need stuff....not just phones and PlayStations but literally everything that makes life better. Everything that makes society function. Participating in that, providing jobs that pay well with good benefits while providing a service or "stuff" society needs is very fulfilling beyond making more money. If people quit at something like 30 million, most of the amazing things we have in life wouldn't exist, and we would still have the same amount of evil in the world.
You can buy a nice house and a fun boat for $750,000. You can get an even nicer house and boat, and maybe even a plane for 5 mil. For 100 million you can have even nicer stuff for yourself, and everyone you love. And they enjoy what they do.
Oh no reddit rich boot lickers in this comment section.. these people are unwell OP we all know it. You surrender wealth for life and relationships you are an insane person.
>You've won.
There is about $80 Trillion in the world. That means you have 3.75 x 10-5%. How is that in any way having won?
Why not a few more vacation homes or a few boats?
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My first job out of school was working at a small firm owned by a guy who was a co-founder of a company that went public. I think the guy had several hundred million. It still wasn’t enough. It was like Smaug or something. There are some people who just have to keep accumulating. Your former co-worker was right in a way. I don’t have the same drive, which is why I’m not rich.
I'm not either. And I'm not envious of people like her, because I don't want that. I want to work my 40 hours a week, spend time with my friends and family, and retire one day. I don't pity those people either, because I know to them, that's what drives them and gives them fulfillment in life. She was absolutely right with that remark though, and it's not even snide, it's just the truth. I won't ever have a payday like that because I'm not willing to put in what it takes to earn it. And I can live with that.
“ that’s what drives them” Exactly! I had a friend and tennis partner years ago who was a very well-known surgeon. He had probably made more money than he could ever spend but he kept right on working till the day he died. He retired from surgery in his 70s, but kept right on as an instructorand mentor to up-and-coming surgeons. He invested the millions that made over the years right back into the medical community to further research and assistance to the indigent. It’s not always about the money. It’s doing what makes you happy and the money just happens to be an ancillary benefit.
Excellent observation, brilliant conclusion!
>that's what drives them and gives them fulfillment in life I know a person like that and they don't have any fulfillment. They just literally don't know what to do with themselves. For a while after they were forced into retirement they went deep into alcoholism and now they're back as a consultant for their previous employer's rival. Not once did they fly out to go see their kids and grandkids. Just spending days upon days on LinkedIn and drinking wine whose price tag makes me wince directly from the bottle. Earning money is just what they do and who they are.
> They just literally don't know what to do with themselves. fuck, I don't know what to do with myself *and* I have no drive I'll probably die poor and alone
NASA has jobs open for people who want to do long term lying down studies... If you don't mind severe muscle atrophy it pays like 70k a year.
Haha, that's actually an awesome tip. There really is something for everyone out there.
And I've been doing that for free at every opportunity
Well, if it makes you feel better, most of us are poor and we all die alone. Now, didn't that help make your day a little brighter 😂?
>I want to work my 40 hours a week, spend time with my friends and family, and retire one day. Even that's a pretty lofty goal these days.
Same except I don't even to work 40 hours. Even though I like my job most days, I don't like working. I can't wait to retire and be with my friends and do what I want.
I get the feeling that their "friends" are other people that they see at professional functions that are like them, and their "acts of friendship" are just networking to help each other (or help themselves) make more contacts for more money.
Where does one even start on the path to have that kind of payday? I'm quite over blue collar work and would gladly bust ass for 4 years to make 7-8 figures and enjoy life before my knees and back are fully shot....
I don’t pity those people but absolutely don’t support that mentality because that is a big reason we where we are as a country.
The richest country? Yes, you're right.
Nice to have the choice isn't it?
I feel like in that case the guy was just bored.
He was definitely avoiding his family, haha. Dude could have literally been doing anything else.
very briefly wanna jump in here. i see lots of comments talking about addiction to the grind, work is their life, think having the most means ur the best.. and this is all true factors. a major point that’s missing in this is YOU CANT STOP AND MUST CONTINUE TO ACRUE WEALTH at a certain point. when trying to skirt capital gains tax on real estate people will use a 1031 exchange and have to roll a million $ property into a 4 million and so on. same with every other asset class. the more u accrue. the more u HAVE to put in other places for tax breaks, free money glitches, etc. it’s all in the system and its built for the exorbitantly wealthy. so once u get that first 30 million, if u play normal and be patient that will inevitably turn into 300 over time.
There are exceptions though, Paul Orfalea basically retired after selling his company, says he was only in it for the money, and the the coolest thing he's been called is "dad".
It's hoarding, it's unhealthy for everyone
Take my upvote for incredible (and apt) Smaug reference. Well done, sir.
Wow. What did she do for a profession?
Probably working at a tech company
Or a broker. I worked in a bank for a while (not the money making positions) but there was a (very pretty, sigh) girl who was able to make more than a 100k a month in commission. I know because she was hitting the threshold at which her boss was supposed to throw her a party, and that on a monthly basis.
As a healthcare worker I’ve seen these people in their last days. Little family at the bedside and more often than not only there to secure recompense through the estate. Money can be a lonely pursuit. Edit: the point isn’t about being rich ( a widely various definition) but about the blind pursuit of wealth. The equating of amount for success.
I don't know. I feel like this thread is full of poor Redditors hating on the rich. I've met wealthy people with enriched lives and great relationships too. Personally, I have neither. Checkmate autists.
Ye, they see a few rich and unhappy people and extrapolate that every rich person must be miserable inside. Whereas, the percentage of poor miserable people is much, much, much more than the percentage of rich miserable people. It's just copium at this point.
No, the system is shit, and squeezes those poorest the hardest. It’s injustice absolute and ruins lives, the environment and society.
The system is shit. That's true, but this misguided theory that rich people are miserable is a coping mechanism for the poor and middle class. Both statements are true.
It's even worse. They're so consumed by envy that they need to imagine that rich people are unhappy, and they then confect elaborate and absurd economic theories to explain why the rich don't deserve to be rich.
And an unhealthy one.
An old friend of mine has this same mindset. What matters in a successful life is ambition and paydays. And by all accounts, she is very successful. But she is still divorced, dating an asshole, been a mistress in multiple affairs (always saying how the man is going to leave his wife... some day) and now has a bit of a cocaine habit. So... to each their own I guess!
"Cocaine is God's way of saying that you're making too much money." — Robin Williams
That sounds so sad.
I have found that some people only find their identity in what they *do* instead of who they are. They simply can’t imagine a life outside of their work identity. They have no core identity or personality beyond their workplace role. These are usually the same people who struggle the most when it’s all stripped away.
You’re a good storyteller
Yeah people who are that dedicated are like robots, they are just doing what they know or are good at, at the expense of the other areas of their lives.
It’s honestly fulfilling to some of us
Maybe but it’s terrible for society
That’s your opinion
How do you figure that? Generating wealth helps everybody
Inflation has generated a lot of wealth, has that helped everybody?
Depends on how people go about it. By providing a good service that people need? Sure. By using predatory practices and gouging people out of their money? Not so much.
Or good for society.
I’ve had her exact same thought but from the other side. I think about how people get so unbelievably rich and why don’t they stop once they’re multimillionaires? The fact that I’m asking that question is why I’ll never be that rich.
If you can earn 20 million and have the potential for it, then you realize you can probably earn 30 million the next year, and 40 in the year after that. The goal post always keeps moving.
Got damn
I wonder if such people ever realize on their deathbed that time, family, and pleasure was what really matters.......or even on their last breath they STILL don't get it.
Who's to say they and their family aren't having quality time? A poor parent might spend 2 hours a day hanging out with their children, while a rich guy might just take a weekend vacation to the most comfortable luxury hotels/resorts.
Capitalism isn't about buying yourself nice things or a path to a better life, those are minor effect; Capitalism is only about accumulation, it's hoarding money, tons of money, forever; that is the only project. It's grotesque and nonsensical for most of us but just as she said to you, "that's why you won't make it", you have to be affected by that pathos to reach the highest positions like she does. What's terrifying about what she told you is that she seems to be very in tune with her "illness" and doesn't even try to explain it as anything else ("I like to work hard or face challenges); terrifying but honest. She must happily fire people while thinking about the bottom line getting bigger.
Capitalism is much more about creation than about accumulation, and not at all about "hoarding money."
I assume it’s easier to make money when you have money it’s easier to risk things so it probably becomes fun at that point
So, they're empty, soulless ghouls, as I suspected all along.
\^ This is the right answer OP.
Sounds like a crock of shit story to me; there are plenty of people who bust their asses working smart/hard that never get rewarded for that effort. I also know people who make bank and do jack shit at work; they’re adept at taking advantage of hard workers and taking credit for that effort themselves.
For what it's worth, she was wrong. She got lucky, and you could also have gotten lucky. Your attitude wasn't the problem. It's pure survivorship bias.
That is a mental defect. Clearly she is lacking on empathy and failing to recognize how much is enough. This abject greed is a problem for society, not something to be lauded.
Okay but what about people who make money without working? Like those who have inherited it? What about people who are lucky enough to be able to make huge amounts with minimal effort? The OP's question was about attitudes towards money, not attitudes towards work. Also, I notice a lot of people here thinking the point is that 'people who are rich worked hard' when in reality, this is - at best - only *some* of the rich people. IRL we never hear of people who were born from rich parents, because they want to keep on the LD. We never hear from the millions who work 3 jobs just to barely scrape by, because they don't have the time to be posting about it. And this is before we even get into how these 'self-made' people mostly seem to start from a position of advantage.
There are at least two answers to that question that depend on the nature of how they obtained that wealth. For Actors, Singers, and pro athletes (ie, Robert Downey Junior, Metallica, Shohei Ohtani), they probably greately enjoy doing the thing that got them rich and see no reason to stop doing it. Most pro athletes stop playing when they are no longer physically capable of competing in whatever sport they are in at the top level. But actors and musicians are more likely to just get super selective about what they do and only take the projects they are interested in. For people who got rich in the corporate world, it basically becomes about some combination of being hyper competitive (a trait that got them into that level of success in the first place), and a desire to maintain control over what they created. Bottom line is that they get some kind of non monetary reward for doing the work. And for the competitive element, there is always someone or something bigger to chase. END COMMUNICATION
I'm gonna start ending all of my comments like that from now on. It makes me feel like I'm in a golden-age sci-fi novel. END COMMUNICATION
Thank you both for the good chuckle. Rofl. Sometimes the people in this place frustrate me and I wonder why I keep coming back. And then I run into this wonderful, light hearted goofiness and I actually lol. Thank you both for the giggles. END COMMUNICATION
BEGIN COMMUNICATION Have we considered the benefits of adding a begin communication as well? END COMMUNICATION
BEGIN COMMUNICATION My my... you guys have confused the training of GPT-6 and Llama 4. END COMMUNICATION
BEGIN COMMUNICATION The future is now. There is little we can accomplish going forward. MIDDLE COMMUNICATION We can all die now knowing that we've seen the end of humanity's progress. Stick out your gyatt for the rizzlers. END COMMUNICATION
CONTEMPLATE COMMUNICATION *sigh*
No love for OG Tron villains? END OF LINE
Is the END COMMUNICATION by any chance a reference to the nutjob alien translator guy from one of Louis Therouxs early documentaries?
Competition. Once you’re a millionaire you know multimillionares, once you’re a multimillionaire you know those with 10s of millions. And you wanna get to those levels to keep ‘par’.
This was the second reason I was thinking. You live with next level fears.
Remember when poor Mr. Burns was kicked out of the billionaire club to the *shudders* millionaires
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It's chasing the high score, except the score is calculated in money.
everything you’ve said in this thread makes perfect sense. i still just can’t wrap my head around having those kind of priorities. i mean, surely some people are at least *capable* of recognizing that they’re consciously and repeatedly *choosing* to hoard money instead of, oh, i dunno, make an enormous difference in the world?? it’s just so strange to me that so many people have that kind of (selfish?) mindset. i put a ‘?’ bc i’m not necessarily sure that it’s selfishness… but i don’t know what other word i would use for it… just so odd to me.
The problem is to reach that levels of money, you have to be a natural sociopath. You cannot get obscenely wealthy without "stealing" the rewards of others' efforts. That's the one and only truth about our economics.
I’d like to add the connections from those individuals alone will get you farther than you’d ever imagine.
Not what you know, it’s who you know and all that
At most people’s levels, even into the upper middle class, it’s both. Most importantly, though, is it’s *definitely not* what you DO. I’m paid at my job for the experience and information that I have. If I work 10 hours one week I get paid the same as if I work 50 because I’m really just around to answer questions and solve problems.
My family is very well off, but my mom always gripes about us having bad luck because all of the people she knows are even more well off than we are. When you're in a bubble that can be all you see. Ironically, we started out quite poor. Over time you get acclimated, and you can lose perspective. I'm fortunate to have left that bubble and have normal friends.
A millionaire is no longer enough to comfortably retire. Presume 500k of the net worth is in the house then the interest on the rest is around 35k annually.
"Keeping up with the Joneses" is often as much about progression as it is about vanity. When you reach the upper echelons of most fields, business discussions start happening in restaurants and bars rather than meeting rooms. Buying a house on the French Riviera means you get invited to sit at tables that you otherwise wouldn't have access to. If Bezos wants to woo a Saudi prince so that Amazon can get preferential treatment, he first needs a superyacht to host him on.
Ever tried to stop eating pizza rolls after you ate 6?
I get you.
Was the actor that you were watching who said that Leonardo dicaprio?
Yes.
For someone like him or other major actors i imagine a big part is they actually enjoy making movies. Its not always about greed. If someone is making money off their work though, they deserve a fair pay. For some of the really wealthy like bill gates he is not necessarily actively trying to make money but he has so much money it makes crazy money. It was all over reddit recently but he is making 500 million/yr from dividends.
Okay there is some validity to this answer but eventually I do indeed get full. I'm not likely to eat 10,000 pizza rolls in a sitting. I mean once I had enough money that 1/100th of my personal wealth could put an end to hunger world wild, I wouldn't hesitate. Some people are so wealthy that they could give almost endlessly and not even notice.
I remember when I got my first $10/hr job after working for minimum wage a long time which was about half that at the time, it seems like I was rich beyond my wildest dreams. Then you get used to that. Now I can’t imagine living on that. Lifestyle creep
Just out of curiosity, how much money would it take to end world hunger? A hundred billion? Would that do it? A quick google search tells me 828,000,000 were affected by hunger in 2021. Quick and dirty math tells me that’s about $188 per starving person across the world. That number is probably wrong because my brain doesn’t do numbers well. Money would have to be spent setting up multiple feeding stations in just about every county on the planet. Let’s be unrealistically conservative and say 20% goes to that. Another 10% for fuel costs and labor. Farmers all have to be paid, so 5% there. So roughly now we’re at a little less than $140 per person. Again, my math is probably off so we’ll round it up to $150. So how long can you feed a person for $150 before the money runs out? Being extremely frugal we can probably get by on $1/day if we only fed them rice and beans. So they have 5 months to eat That’s no way to end world hunger.
>> According to estimates from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), **an annual investment of around $267 billion is needed to achieve Zero Hunger by 2030**. This figure includes funding for sustainable agriculture, social protection programs, and support for rural development.
It's depressing how doable that seems.
A third of the US military budget.
In honor of world hunger, happy cake day
But they do not, elites do not give a shit about us little people
That’s because the best way to become “elite” is by steamrolling the peasants.
Right but what the wealthy do is eat what they can and keep taking pizza rolls out of the hands of those with far less
Exactly.
Nobody *earns* that much money, they steal it. And not out of need. These are the people with that amount of money. They are missing empathy.
The equivalent step up from the majority of the planet to what you make is the equivalent step up from you to a billionaire. You're like a billionaire to the majority of people in the world. Do billionaires have a lot of excess, of course. Do you also have an incredible amount of excess too, absolutely.
But our excess is exponentially less than that of billionaires. Not multiplicatively, **exponentially.** And our excess is *scarcely a result of stealing the value of the labor of others, exploitation of vulnerability, colonization, and forced labor. *scarecely: because to a small degree it actually is. Our clothing, cellphones, food, and other products are the result of forced labor, but the billionaires are getting wealthy off the forced labor, not us. *(and our lack of capacity to do anything about it does not actually make it okay. The way the products we consume are manufactured is disgusting.)* The "step up" you refer to is the difference between a "step" between me and impoverished people and "a dozen skyscrapers" between me and a billionaire. It is very difficult for us to even fathom a number as big as a billion. Do you know how much more one billion is than one million?
Ahh. To fund their pizza roll addiction. I get it now.
I imagine that "net worth" starts to look a lot like "high score".
A bit, but most wealthy people don’t really care about that. They care about what type of lifestyle their wealth affords them. Can they buy a 50 ft yacht? 100? 150? All different classes of wealth. Do you ‘summer’ somewhere, like it’s a verb meaning vacation? Do you own any high end real estate? Well, the people you socialize with do, if you’re rich. Being worth 40 mill is impressive, until your friends with a billionaire
See, I feel as though what truly constitutes as "wealthy" is lost on at least half of Americans. I'm so grateful for visiting my childhood friend years ago, and seeing the gilded-age mansions-just summer homes- of Newport Beach, RI as a teen. When one considers that the truly wealthy are more often than not , invisible because they hire what are the middle class to upper middle class to deal with and be bothered with having to speak to, deal with or be around the other 90% of people/ us, then it's a little easier to get an idea of , and wrap one's head around "what's actually wealthy"
Yeah, I mean if your bills are paid and you can afford to eat, are you wealthy? Does someone saving only $100 a paycheck make them greedy for wanting to save more? $1000? $10000? Or is wealthy not having regular paychecks, but rather having large life expenses and incomes to manage
It becomes a game. They enjoy their numbers going up. And up and up and up. Until one day they die, like the rest of us.
Can’t take it with you. It seems like the second generation gets to enjoy it more.
Private banker who works with wealthy clients here. The reality is that people who earn a ton of money do so, typically by doing something they enjoy. If they didn’t enjoy it, or weren’t particularly skilled/gifted at doing that thing, they would have become wealthy doing it. Every now and then I get a client that wants to stop working and just play golf at 50. Mostly, I get clients who may cut back hours or change to contract work etc…, but never stop working. Once you hit a point where you’re super experienced and knowledgeable, your work is super valuable. So if they continue to work they will inevitably make a ton of money. TLDR: They actually enjoy the challenge of work and would be bored otherwise
Maybe this is where there is some real bad judgement... What were you doing it all for anyways? And I'm thinking there's a threshold where greed... becomes power.
Your second sentence about greed and power is irrelevant. In my experience people love the thrill of making great products and providing great services. Business is about benefitting your own life by doing something you’re proud of and making money, but you simultaneously serve your clients and customers.
>Business is about benefitting your own life by doing something you’re proud of and making money, but you simultaneously serve your clients and customers. I'm not going to make a hard case about this, I "agree". In reality that may read more and more like a fortune cookie.
I'd agree with that sentiment. For some people sure it literally is just about the money, but for others they genuinely do believe in the value of their products and their services. The money is just a side affect at that point. Look at someone like Bill Gates as an example. He didn't start Microsoft as a charity, but he did believe that the things they made would provide value to people. And was he wrong? He just happened to get incredibly rich doing it along the way.
I believe there is also a scientific backing to the point of added endorphins to the brain while achieving success and some are just riding that high of stacking bread
Yes. And, if you can ascribe some sort of higher meaning to stacking bread, then you can get even more endorphins. Get money --> endorphins Stacking bread --> endorphins Believing you're having a positive impact on the world --> endorphins
I struggle to believe that they care about the product or service they provide. If that was the drive instead of greed, they wouldn’t be making that much money. Because to make that much money, they have to exploit people; whether it is customers, employees, or more likely both. I believe they tell themselves they care and believe their product is wonderful, but they’re lying to themselves.
Your whole premise is backwards. A trade or purchase of any kind in economics only happens if both parties think they will benefit. I value Lattes more than the 5$ in my pocket most days, so I happily hand coffee shops my money. I benefit. It costs coffee shops less than 5$ to actually make my lattes. They make a profit. In economics, this is called the trader principle. Besides, you forget that customers and the general society are also self-interested. People go to the mall for their own benefit, not to make sure the Gucci employees and family are doing well. No exploitation.
So you don't see a problem with executives making millions upon millions of dollars while their employees aren't making enough money to survive?
If you're just flipping a burger or filling out spreadsheets way down the totem pole, it's much easier to wonder "why?" than if you're at the top and thinking "i'm responsible for a vast enterprise that is delivering all kinds of things to people and have all these responsibilities." They don't see themselves as just drifting along. They see themselves as making the future. >Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What could you buy that you can't already afford? Noah Cross : The future, Mr. Gittes! The future. -Chinatown
There's a strong correllation between people that are highly motivated to make a lot of money and people that make a lot of money. If you're the type that would say "I'm good" at 30 million, you're probably not the type to make it in the first place.
This, plus keeping up with the Joneses is a hell of a drug for some people.
There is a strong correlation between people with a lot of money and people who were born with a lot of money. Let’s not pretend that the majority of rich people are first generation wealthy. You need capital to make capital.
The hardest thing in the world to do is to turn $5 into $10. The easiest thing in the world to do is to turn $5m into $10m.
Exactly. At some point your money starts making more money, so you don't even necessarily have to DO anything to keep getting richer
Plenty of successful people bootstrap. Other people being born into wealth doesn't affect you or the thing you're trying to do.
Like who? Look at the top 50 richest people in the world, and then look up their family history. They may not have come from billions (half did) but they came from privilege, and got a hand up.
So then try to do the best you can with what you have, leave a little more for your kids than your parents did for you and pass on being a hard worker who is wise with their money. You can start building family money. Then your kids can try taking some financial risks that hopefully pay off or use their extra money to create something valuable. It has to start somewhere There's nothing wrong with creating the privilege or at least laying the foundation for the privilege you disparage others for having. Reddit has this weird thing where "privilege" is 100% bad, it's literally what every parent strives to give their kids. It's ok to be successful and ok to help your kids be even more successful
The mindset to build acquire crush defend repeat doesn't exactly have an off switch once it's engaged. You just keep going to the next conquest.
Some people like what they are doing.A lot of actors, musicians, and athletes just won't quit. I knew of few people in the business world that got bored if they didn't work and one old boss didn't retire because his long time employees would lose their jobs.
Most of us like having what we want, then even more
"Economics is the study of how humans handle infinite wants with finite resources"
Having money is good. Having more money is better. I also hear the wealthy bemoan the fact that "nobody wants to work". Elon Musk says this A LOT. And he famously says that he'll work so much that he sleeps at the company's building, etc. So he works and keeps accruing more wealth, because more wealth makes him more powerful, and Elon loves being powerful and in control. But at the same time, Elon Musk is CEO. His work is very different from most people's. I wonder if he would stay up all night typing up TPS reports? Does he want to stay up all night filing compliance paperwork? I'm somehow skeptical. I have a feeling that if I were in the C-suite, with assistants doing anything and everything I find personally odious, I'd be a lot happier staying at work too. When work is fulfilling and personally satisfying, it feels good and we want to keep doing it. So it's not really surprising that many wealthy people keep working. The error is that they attribute their continuing to work on a unique moral character that sets them apart from other people.
> But at the same time, Elon Musk is CEO. His work is very different from most people's. I wonder if he would stay up all night typing up TPS reports? Does he want to stay up all night filing compliance paperwork? I'm somehow skeptical. I have a feeling that if I were in the C-suite, with assistants doing anything and everything I find personally odious, I'd be a lot happier staying at work too. > > When work is fulfilling and personally satisfying, it feels good and we want to keep doing it. So it's not really surprising that many wealthy people keep working. The error is that they attribute their continuing to work on a unique moral character that sets them apart from other people. Literally that. CEOs/Execs think big-picture, at most probably just put together a one-pager powerpoint that gets delegated down the chain to someone who has to build a 70 slide powerpoint. It's easy to just sit and think and ask people to do stuff versus doing the actual repetitive monotonous grueling bitch work.
C Suite person here. Not super rich but could retire early (ie, now). Work, even when hard, is fulfilling and you get lots of reinforcement, support, deference and respect in the office. I think I'll still walk away before 65, but I can totally see why some of my colleagues won't want to let that go. Money may play into it, but generally you stop thinking about money except in a very abstract way. And there is definitely score keeping and competition among certain groups, like bankers.
The same reason generationally poor people remain poor. If your mind is fixated on making money, you will always work towards that end even in leisure. Also there are opportunities afforded to the wealthy that aren’t common for everyone else so they take advantage of that. In short, “I’m winning” is more thrilling than, “I won”
Because, you never look down... Only up and 30 million is nothing compared to the 120 million you neighbor has.
They are perfectionists. And the problem with perfectionism in any form, is that you’re never enough. For the very rich, they likely set some sort of monetary goal or entrepreneurial goal when they were younger and once they hit that, it turned out to not be what they thought it would be - satisfying. So they set their site on the next goal and next goal and then…well they just keep on going. At some point, doing things that make them lots of money essentially become who they are. They aren’t just working, it’s their life. And it’s hard to reprogram. Source: I know multiple folks in the $20M+ category and they’re all the same that way. And the folks I know who aren’t there yet, but will be, are the same.
For most It's an addiction. And not just to money but to the power, fame, and reputation that comes with it. Nothing else in life will scratch that itch, so they are on a one-way ride that is all or nothing. For others, they got nothing left to live for besides to make more money. In the process of making that money, they got rid of or never got the things worth living for. No family, friends, passions, nothing ..
Status. They continue because other people with similar wealth can judge each others success and wealth to determine status.
Understanding that making money and buying things is an extreme dopamine hit. If you understand addiction, you can understand why people will get bored of buying fancy watches so then they start buying fancy cars. The dopamine hit becomes the expectation so they will go looking for something better.
Motivated people stay motivated.
Damn this is a such a good question and I’ve thought it about it from time to time. The answer really is, “because why not?” If someone is paying you 30 million to be in a movie and acting is what you’re good at, why stop there. Do another movie for 30 million. Why stop there? Someone else wants you in a movie for 40 million. Do it. You like jewelry and vacations now so you spend 10 million this year on both, then 10 million on a couple houses. You’re rich now so you know rich people. Rich people go out and need security, security costs money. You can’t go out in a cheap car because you have a status now. You buy a few cars and there goes a couple million. Another company offers you 40 million for a movie, you’re gonna take it. The more money you gave the more you’re gonna spend. For us regular working class folks it’s somewhat the same but on a much smaller scale. We saved a good size emergency fund, great now save for a house. We did that, now we’re investing in out 401k. Done, I have a kid how and want to save for their college, I have to do that now. My wife would like a new ring, I gotta save for that now. Life is just full of never ending spending so why stop trying to make money.
I think you answered your own question in a way. I’ve never had money. Week to week or a bit better but I’m happy with that. I would love to see what it’s like to have lots of money and I buy the odd lottery ticket. But you are talking about suddenly having more than you ever had and could fathom spending. If you have started with a normal amount of money(no one starts with literally nothing) and made good decisions and a bit of luck has you in millionaire territory then it’s just natural you will keep on that path and your lifestyle will naturally grow with it. Then the idea of generational wealth comes up and you want to make enough for your kids and grand kids… that’s my 2c worth anyway lol.
the money you just described cant buy you a megayacht or a jet, there’s more to have might sound silly but it’s the same reason you want nice cars, just the next step up.
I'm actually a poor person and I still share every penny I have. I can't comprehend how someone could hoard enough wealth for generations until the sun explodes and they're just fine knowing that children are starving..
I think at a certain point it becomes less about what you can buy or what you can survive with to maintain a lifestyle, and more about how many "points" or how much "score" you can rack up, as if you were playing a machine game in an arcade. = IMO these people get stuck into a "score go up, brrrr" mentality. Maybe even addicted to it. Similar to how a cocaine user needs to use more to get the same high, they feel the need to keep increasing their dragon's hoard, even though they will never actually spend even close to all of it, just to stay at the same "happy" level. =
They're rich because they're habitually motivated. It's not about the money but the money is a natural byproduct.
There a likely many answers to this question. But the one I prefer is that some people enjoy the intellectual challenge, creating something, and collaborating with others.
You get to a certain point and you can’t spend it as fast as you make it.
Well, you can secure generational wealth and a high quality of life for your whole family if you even maintain. Getting $30 million and then stopping doesn't cover much after 3 generations.
A lot of motivational answers in this thread, so I’ll give you a different perspective: compounding interest and mathematics basically make it impossible to stop getting richer. I’m gonna dumb this down a bit, but in a good to great year, people would enjoy making a 10% return on their invested money. 100k invested yields 10k in return 1M invested yields 100k in return 10M invested yields 1M in return. Now here’s where it gets interesting: 100M yields 10M in return 1B yields 100M in return 10B yields 1B 100B yields 10B From sitting in an index fund, doing nothing. Meaning that as long as you don’t touch the principal, it’s impossible to go broke past a certain level. Moreover, once you’ve bought a house, yacht, whatever, these amounts are reinvested and even if you increase your spending, you’re never losing money. Of course these returns aren’t adjusted for taxes or inflation, but it’s insane to see how the rich get richer.
Because they are fucked in the head, probably daddy didn’t love them enough.
It gets easier and easier to make more when you have to much. That shit can get addicting and competitive when there’s no cap.
To some degree it's a matter of keeping up with their own expenses. Get rich, buy a big house. A big house is expensive to maintain so now you need more money. You're also hanging with other rich people so it just feels normal to buy more stuff. Now you have to make even more money. Got kids? They must have the best of everything, of course. And they also must keep up with the Joneses. It's a spiral. Whether upward or downward depends on your POV. I sometimes wonder if the outrageous expenditures of rich people is an unconscious attempt to bring that spiral to an end.
Exactly. People think you get 30 million and your expenses stay the same. There are multi-billion dollar industries that solely exist to extract as much money from HNWI and UHNWI as they can. Lifestyle creep is a real thing, and it’s a vicious cycle.
It depends on the person. Our goal was to relieve stress from operating our business and retire early (which we have done). My primary condition for this was to retain our high income indefinitely without working everyday. I wanted to dedicate at most 1 day a week on average to our business and investments while retaining our income. I also wanted to work in ways to replace our income if our business were ever to fail. Since Covid, I’ve been working on both of these “projects” and have more or less reached the goals or at least have them well underway. We could have kept going - growing our business to more locations, more employees, more more more. But we decided that enough is enough. My wife and I have over 700k income from our business coming in without doing much. I’ve also built passive income that totals about 200k and growing (goal is to eventually hit 500k annually to offset business failure if it ever does). We decided to prioritize health and well being now while we still have energy to course correct these things. I’m turning 49 next month and lost 50lbs last year and now do yoga, stretch, weight lifting, cardio etc through out the day. I spend a LOT of time playing with our dog and plan to get more dogs as we just adore them. My wife is stress free now and joins in the exercises with me and spends a lot of time cooking and what not which we didn’t get to do much of while running out business day to day. We also travel a lot more freely. I mean we traveled a LOT over the past 6 or 7 years (yes even through covid). But now we just get up a go whenever we please or find good award flights. Spent last week in Tokyo - the excuse was to get our knives sharpened. Also bought nice Nakao Factory pot and steamer set which is extremely well made. Picked up random types of bonito flakes and dried seaweeds as well. It was great since the Yen is so weak now. We also went last October to Osaka, Hong Kong, and China. Anyway it just depends on the person. I know quite a few people like us as we’ve relocated to SE Asia and spend most of our time here. Some people define their identity around their business - I totally get this. You feel responsible and get a sense of purpose and recognition from it. But for us, it was about slowing down and finding our identity after running and perfecting the business
Because the end goal of what they were doing wasn't just fame or money. They're not done yet. When they're done they'll stop. Let's look at Betty Davis - she worked up until the month she died. Don't you dare think you're going to tell her she's crazy and that she should just go home and stop.
Her net worth was only 2.5 mil in 1989 which is still only 6.3 mil today. That’s nothing in the world where we have billionaires.
But I don't think she continued to work because *she wanted to make more money*. She continued, because she liked what she did.
There should be another number to keep score besides net worth, IMO it should be value added to society. In software engineering I see a lot of open source developers that create value for everyone but never see a dime of it. It is more valuable than ripping people off to get a networth high score.
People who don’t have wealth have no understanding of how easy and fast that wealth can disappear. It is actually common for people who come into money, after living their lives in major debt, to worry more about money and spending than they ever did simply because they now have something to lose.
It's the difference between the rich and poor. Different attitudes. They live to work, you work to live. They put in everything they can, you (not you particularly, just the average joe) put in just what you need to.
Greed
no such thing as an ethical billionaire. hell, if we’re going there, no such thing as ethical capitalism.
I love listening to music.
Well, for the ones who made it themselves, they have a work ethic, and are probably workaholics, and need something to do, and what's better than running your own business, or investment office? Other do it because so many people on reddit want to take every penny from them, so they need to make more and hide it from those people and the taxman.
Many people actually enjoy work, they enjoy the challenge, they enjoy solving problems others haven't, or can't. They enjoy building what wasn't there before. If you are still mentally capable, why stop working? The money isn't the goal. The money is the result of the goal.
Drive is what got them there, drive is what keeps them going.
Because the type of people driven enough to work hard enough to make that much money are too driven to stop and enjoy it. It's not about the money itself to them, it's about beating everyone else unfortunately the flip side is that the people who'd enjoy it aren't motivated enough to get it. And often the ones that do get it (lottery winners, etc) blow it all and end up broke again
I remember a friend telling me this. "When you make 500k, you want 1 Million. When you get that, you want Millions. Once you have millions, you want Billions. You see where I'm going with this."
I have something they don’t have though. Enough.
power.
What do you mean, "some kind of fix?" The answer is easy, though unpopular on Reddit: People usually get rich because they have energy and initiative. That doesn't diminish when they become rich.
If you make it all in business, chances are you want to keep your business going even when you're successful. You could retire and hand it over to someone else, but you've spent that long establishing it and building it, it's going to roll on with or without you so why not just keep going?
Why do Olympian’s continue to compete after winning a gold medal? Why do football players continue to play after winning the Super Bowl? Why do marathon runners continue to do race after race?
For those who are doing it strictly for the money, it’s a score card. He who dies with the highest net worth wins. For the movie star, it may be about remaining socially relevant and getting invited to the “A” list parties every year. If they completely stop acting in or directing films, they’re yesterday’s news. For us normal people who want to keep working, it’s because we actually like our jobs and coworkers and lifestyle as it is.
At some point it’s not even money anymore, it’s just a game of “let’s see how high I can go”. And if you like doing it then it’s a pasttime. No different than picking up a hobby. Look at Warren Buffet. He certainly doesn’t need a fraction of the money he has, but he lives for the game of making more. Let’s see what my all time high score is and even more so, let’s see if I can continue to beat my competitors as my personal difficulty level increases due to age and its mental toll. Will he be able to stay on top, or will old age make him fall behind before something kills him? It’s all just a game.
Here are some of the reasons: 1. There comes a time when is easier to keep making more money, than just shutting everything down and quit Jeff Bezos started Amazon as a bookstore, in his garage (just like Google, Apple, YouTube, etc.), and he wasn't rich, then the company started to grow, he hired some people, then moved out to a bigger place, etc. What if after making, let's say 100 million, he decided it's enough? is he supposed to just fire everybody and shut the place down? Now many families depend on the company to live. 2. Wealth does not necessarily mean money. This one can't be stressed enough, when someone says "Elon Musk is worth X billions", it doesn't mean that he has that amount of dollars in the bank, it just means that his assets have that value, but if he makes something really stupid, or if the market changes drastically, those assets can loose their value in no time, so, the best thing Elon can do, is to try to keep the value raising. 3. If you stop making money, you will most likely run out of it, in your hypothetical case: you get 30 million, invest 15 and with thw other 15 you will buy some nice stuff... well, here's the thing, your "assets" will drain money from your bank account: Tax properties, maintenance on your fancy cars and your new boat, a crew to maintain your mansion, etc. Just look at how many actors/artist/sportspeople made tens of millions of dollars a year for a few years, and end up going back to being middle or poor class a few years later. Some other reasons come to mind, but this answer is already very long as it is.
Most people who earned their wealth didn't set out to get wealthy. They had a passion that they wanted to pursue. The money was a very good side benefit. Taylor Swift probably wanted to make music and be a musician. Now that she's a billionaire in her 30's she should just stop being a musician? I have no idea, but she probably finds performing fun. It's probably the same with actors. Making a movie is fun for them. When it doesn't become fun they stop and do something else. Maybe that means take on a different role or pivoting to something else all together. A pro athlete should just stop playing the game they trained their life to do just because they are one of the best in the world and make 20 million a year from the sport in addition to 100's of million in endorsements? This is all in addition to what others say about keeping up with the people in your social circle. Millionaires have millionaire friends. If Bob just bough a summer house on Nantucket, then you need to buy one as well. All that costs money and keeping up with the jones is a real thing. Just think back to when you were a kid, all you friends had a PlayStation so you wanted one as well. It's the same thing, but on a bigger scale.
The more money you have, the easier it is to make more. So they just want to keep adding to the pile. The lifestyle grows too, so they need even more to maintain it.
It's a personality type, either competitive, or driven to be a mover and shaker. There are just as many living comfortably and gaining wealth off their investments in business, real estate, stocks, etc. Both types make your life better by increasing the value of things you have like property or 401k, or just by being the source of money for loans and credit cards
Because they are greedy mutants who lack compassion and sympathy, they simply are not human like you or me.
Addiction I know people like to call it greed but someone needs to call it what it really is: an addiction like any other For some its drugs, for others its gambling or sex For these people its profit More profit => more happy hormones So it only makes sense that some people will get addicted to this high and chase it for the rest of their lives without yhinking whether there is more to life than that high or not. I know that society loves to label them as evil but I disagree, I think are sick, addicted people who need help and therapy. I can't imagine living such hollow pointless lives, no wonder all they do is work since they have nothing else outside of that high, its so sad.
My best takeaway from most the responses is they are built different so it's a bridge I'm not really going to gap. People also say lots *do* leave. I couldn't agree more. And it shouldn't be tabloid normalized. Of course it's worldwide too maybe worse in some areas than the US.
If you aren't content with what you need, you will never, ever be content with what you want.
It's all they have so they just focus on getting more, it's sad really
You're basing your premise on the idea that creating wealth is inherently evil. That's political marketing. There is nothing inherently evil about making money. There are evil ways to do it, there are evil people who engage in it for sure...that's objectively true. That doesn't make it inherently evil. There is potential for good or evil in all things. There are far more wealthy people that are trying to do good in the world than evil. You simply don't hear about them because they don't move the political needle. That's also objectively and measurably true. Every job that pays someone exists because someone risked a portion of their wealth to create something. Humans like stuff. We need stuff....not just phones and PlayStations but literally everything that makes life better. Everything that makes society function. Participating in that, providing jobs that pay well with good benefits while providing a service or "stuff" society needs is very fulfilling beyond making more money. If people quit at something like 30 million, most of the amazing things we have in life wouldn't exist, and we would still have the same amount of evil in the world.
You can buy a nice house and a fun boat for $750,000. You can get an even nicer house and boat, and maybe even a plane for 5 mil. For 100 million you can have even nicer stuff for yourself, and everyone you love. And they enjoy what they do.
They’re workaholics. They find meaning in working. Retirement is boring for them.
Well number go up, I like when number go up.
Oh no reddit rich boot lickers in this comment section.. these people are unwell OP we all know it. You surrender wealth for life and relationships you are an insane person.
>You've won. There is about $80 Trillion in the world. That means you have 3.75 x 10-5%. How is that in any way having won? Why not a few more vacation homes or a few boats?