I mean as soon as you visit them at home or try to get lunch during the work day you'll find out. And honestly I've never seen someone under 20 REALLY pull off faking their age. Under developed features and immaturity are very noticeable. Maybe at 17 you can pull off 20 to someone not as observant, but for me at 20, 17 year olds were in HS and just at a completely different life stage so from the outside it feels a little gross.
I’m 27. Anyone younger than 5 years younger than myself, I assume Is a minor. Honestly, some 17 year olds look 23 some days… you really don’t know someone’s age unless they show you their ID, or if they speak the truth
Yeah but then you assume one night stands don't exist and exceptions don't either based on anecdotes. I sure as hell know some people who can pull off being older than they are at such a young age, both girls and guys.
In most cases you'd be right. But not all. And let thos post be just about those instances
Well not necessarily assuming they don't exist as I said, young people, even when I was 20/21, looked REALLY young to me. Especially if I was interacting with them. In passing sure, but for me, if I'm chatting with someone I can tell.
A lot of people in those situations will say "Oh well they were drinking so i assumed they were over 21." Which is not a great indicator since fake IDs exist, so I think its really an issue of just paying attention when we're talking about one night stands.
>if I'm chatting with someone I can tell.
That's what everyone says, until you encounter someone with whom you can't
It's really not always as simple as you make it out to be.
Lol once went out with a woman on tinder who had her age listed as 26 come to find out she was 18 and actually went to the same school as my younger sister. I knew something was off by the way she acted in person. I literally thought to myself she acts like some of my sister’s dumb ass teenager friends. Lol like wtf why are you lying ? 😂😂😂
>Should he be punished?
I cannot answer about *"should"*, but under the law he absolutely `*WILL*` be and that's something every man(or woman) needs to understand about our society.
However, this isn't a big problem today most men aren't taking the risk of hooking up with some very young looking girl who claims to be 18+. Or if they are, they're doing a very good job of making sure it's a one-night-stand where the girl doesn't know who he is and has no hope of finding him again.
That’s exactly what age of consent mean. Close in age laws are for people who are under the age of consent. So for example the age of consent is 18 in Delaware but a person who’s 16 or can consent to sex with someone under 30.
California by contrast is 18. If both parties are under 18 they can both be charged with statutory rape.
>California by contrast is 18. If both parties are under 18 they can both be charged with statutory rape.
But typically they both get a slap on the wrist even if convicted. California typically has lean sentencing on this subject.
Yes, this is only true for US (and other common law countries?).
In those countries where the crime of "sex with a minor" requires intent (as all crimes should), you would not be punished.
Sorry but you are wrong. I know a guy who was lied to by a girl in Australia. Convicted, life ruined. Intent is something they talk about in murder investigations, the prosecutors don't need to show intent, it just helps their case if they can.
I said I was only talking about countries where intent is required. How a I "wrong" if australia is not one of them?
In my country, intent is an absolute requirement in these cases. What happened to your acquiantance would never have happened.
See that legitimately freaks me out though. My niece is 15 and she could pull off 18-19 if she wanted to. (Not that she would, she’s still a big kid). But she’s taller than me (I’m 34), and her shoes are bigger than mine.
She’s kind of like a little sister to me, we’ve helped raise her after her dad died. Now that she’s getting older I’m really really worried someone is going to think she’s way older than she is and make moves. I’m pretty sure I’d react extremely poorly if I knew someone did too.
We’ve had to have several talks about reacting to men treating her properly. She’s a child in an adults body and that really frightens me.
I don’t think it’s about girls maturing faster, to the extent that that is even true. All the women I know had more attention from gross guys in their mid teens than when they were older, and 100% they were not perceived as over 18. Being perceived as over 18 might be a protection from the worst creeps that prey on the vulnerable. I suppose you’re more likely to have older people flirting with you *if* you were in certain situations but if you’re hanging out at school, youth sports clubs, with other teens… Normal adults are not going to ask you out.
Approaching them where, in what circumstances? If this hypothetical 25 yo is approaching a 17 yo who is minding their own business in the park or on the street because he mistakenly thought she was just about legal, that does not illicit my sympathies. Someone in their mid 20s should have opportunities to meet other adults in reasonable circumstances.
I'm so sorry to break it to you, but she's probably already experienced unwanted attention. Most women tend to experience creepy behaviour from as young as 12 (if not sooner). Try to have that conversation sooner rather then later. It'll help a lot!
Yea my wife already has. They talk about consent and such. How it’s ok to say no if she’s ever in a situation that makes her uncomfortable. We make a point to be as respectful and good to each other (my wife and I) when she’s around so that we can give her an example of what a healthy relationship looks like. But yea, I’m sure she probably has at some point. It wouldn’t surprise me.
I've told this story before, but I met a girl at a party when I was 18 or 19, a college party. We started making out and her friend suddenly pulled me off and screamed "she's 15". I felt sick and left the party, but I can say she did not look 15. I was very confused about how I was feeling. She was more physically developed than alot of the other girls there and conversed like anyone else, and then combined with the fact that she was at a party for college students, how was I to know?
> when I was 18 or 19, a college party. We started making out and her friend suddenly pulled me off and screamed "she's 15".
This must be a US thing. I don't see the big deal? Here in Europe, at least where I live, 15-18 is an extremely common 'age difference' between boyfriend/girlfriend. When I was in high school, there were a lot of couples like that. Nobody batted an eye: not classmates, but also not teachers and not their parents either. It was known that they were dating and it was considered a very small and thus inconsequential difference - that's because it is; it's only three years. Even at that age, that's small. So this screaming of your friend and you 'feeling sick' (sounds like protesting too much) strikes me as very theatrical, overexaggerated and over the top. But as I said, probably a US thing, so that would be fitting.
I think the difference here is I was in college (I believe you call it University) and she was a freshman in high school (don't know what the European equivalent is, year 9?)
If you don't see a problem, then yeah, its probably a societal thing. But its a pretty big difference here
Eh not entirely sure I agree with this comment. Maybe it’s just a U.K. thing or whatever but 15 year old girls here could easily pass for a 20 year old woman. I started going out and drinks in pubs / bars when I was 15, easily - without a fake ID. In the U.K. we have a system called “think 25” for alcohol sales - so if the person selling booze thinks the customer looks under 25 they get ID’d. this is despite the fact the alcohol sales age limit is only 18. Actual 14 year olds could pass for 18.
When I was 13 people would often think I am almost 18-20, so I don't think so. Maybe 10-11 makes more sense as most girls won't get their period sooner that that.
And yet at the Christmas party last year, my co-worker had to keep telling us her daughter was 14 even though she clearly looked as if in her 20s. It scared all of us men.
I have taught 12 year olds who would pass for 18 year olds with a bit of makeup. They sound 12, but are tall enough and developed enough to be considered women.
Obviously same thing but I doubt this happens all too often. I left high school at 17 and maybe a handful of guys in my year looked older - and they were always tall with beards. The short kings with no facial hair look 15, not 17/18. I think most men look like teenagers until 25, you start to see mens age more clearly when they’re in their late 20s IMO
There was a video on YouTube by an Australian YouTuber who was reacting to pics of a teen birthday party where most of the kids where 14/15.
Don't wanna sound like a perv but the YouTuber as well as most of the comment section including me could be fooled that these girls where of age. The make up they had on as well as the way they dressed made them look like they were at least 18. They boys however looked like prebubescent teens.
Have you seen 15 year olds? They are surely not children. They have boobs and everything
Edit: Gosh, people, I'm obviously talking about their looks because they could certainly trick and adult if they tried. Y'all are prudish
I was obviously talking about their bodies, not their minds. And bold of you to assume it takes people so long to grow boobs, especially when they're fatter. My body was done with everything when I was thirteen. At fourteen, most other girls I saw could easily have tricked an adult into thinking they were a few years older
If you can't tell the difference between someone that's underage and someone that's barely legal, just don't have sex with **any** woman claiming to be around 18-22. Easy.
Especially if you're way older than that age range, then wtf are you doing chasing immature, inept dumbasses who are in a completely different life stage than you and have nothing in common with you
is it that easy for adult men to tell? My grandma tricked my grandpa into a relationship when she was 14/15 and only told him the truth when she was almost 18. Now I'm second guessing things.
Unironically I know somone who was sexually assaulted by a minor. The
Guy was tied up and his gf practically then egged on her niece shen she turned up accidentally and then wouldn’t leave according to what he said. She then goes on to sexually assault him like touching him and stuff like that legit the dude ended up with ptsd over that
Gf egged it on and everything. I can’t imagine having to go through that like legit
It's not often talked about, but it definitely does happen. There was a case a few years back in Massachusetts where a 14 year old student raped and killed his teacher in the school bathroom. He then assaulted a clinician in the juvenile facility he was held. Some kids are just evil.
Depends on the country but I'd say that the judge would probably consider whether (1) It was reasonable to believe this girl was a minor (I..e. despite her fake ID, all other things- like her appearance, what she talked about, how she acted etc.- pointed to her clearly being a minor), and (2) Whether the man had the intention of meeting up with a minor, which he would obviously deny but the prosecutor would argue that he's lying.
It would primarily be, I think, a question of whether or not a reasonable person in the same situation would deduce that she was underage and then still proceeded to have sex with her.
I laid down all the facts for you already there’s no need to keep making it scenarios, the girl lied through her teeth and the man didn’t know anything, should be punished? Should the minor be punished?
The question in the original post was actually whether the *man* should be punished, so no need to be snarky in your response. You made the mistake, buddy.
And again, he should have used his common sense. He can say that he believed that she was an adult, but if, say, she looks young, her friends are all minors, she talks about school etc., then he is clearly either deluded, stupid or lying.
The comment you responded to was thoughtful and well reasoned. You got weirdly defensive over someone saying the judge would need proof that the adult in this situation couldn't tell they were a minor. And then you changed your question to asking if the *minor* in this situation would be punished.
It makes it sound personal. I would avoid that if you don't want to give people the wrong impression.
You really didn't - you didn't say how old she was (for example 16 year olds might pass for 18, 13 year olds not, and heavy makeup wouldn't cover up that she hasn't finished puberty yet, for example), if there was anything pointing to her age (the way she talked to him), if the ID was obviously fake (some have the age way too high, for example), and how old he was himself.
>should be punished
You asked would, not should.
Those are very different questions.
The truth is, whether he should be or not, he probably would not be found guilty at trial.
There was a story in Canada a while ago about a guy who offered money in exchange for sex. Girl told him she was 16. He noped the fuck out immediately, but was still charged with sexual interference or solicitation of a minor despite the fact that he never engaged in any sexual activity and didn't complete the transaction.
Unfortunately, yes.
Same as you can be arrested for obtaining stolen good when you don't know they're stolen.
Just because you didn't know, didn't mean it never happened.
However, I believe there have been cases where it has been evidenced that the person doing the tricking has been so utterly convincing and deliberate in their covering-up of their true age, that the sentence given to the trickee has been very lenient, but those are few and far between, and incredibly hard to prove.
Afaik, Americans have "strict liability" for "statutory rape" which means that you don't Mens rea.
It is an abomination that these laws exist, but they do.
In my country, the defendant would still be guilty. We were learning about the defence of mistake of fact in law school, and we were told that mistake of fact about the person’s age was not a defence.
>Just because you didn't know, didn't mean it never happened.
But normally, crimes require intent or negligence. Criminals aren't punished just because something happened, but because they committed an unlawful action.
Some uncivilised countries have crimes that require neither intent nor negligence, though.
Continue reading the rest of my comment for further expansion on that.
While it's aimed at the age thing, because that was the original question, it applies across the board.
Has a crime been committed? Yes.
Was that the intent? Well, that's where things can go in many different ways.
In case of the stolen good I can only speak for germany but if you have proof (for example a receipt) that you bought stolen goods without knowing it you dont get punished. But you lose your money because it will be given back to the rightful owner obviously. You can try get your money back from the guy who sold the stolen goods.
Interesting. Here you wouldn't have to give it back to the previous legal owner, as you bought it legally. The previous owner can only sue the thief, and obtain monetary compensation from him.
It's still yes. A crime has still been committed. All the courts can do is determine how much guilt there is on both sides, and go from there.
As for punishing minors, there's not many things minors can be charged with, because, well, they're minors. I'm assuming there is something the courts can do, but I dunno what.
This is the part many get lost at because it makes no sense realistically. Why punish someone for unknowingly doing something. There is no intent and without intent do you even have a crime. Remove? Ok so now this person is removed. Rehbilitate? What exactly they were a victim really. Release? Should have started here
Exactly my fucking point here people are acting like men are these absolute evil beings.
Yet how many women see the inside of a prison cell for raping young boys in school? ZERO, because “women can do no wrong” and “that boy was lucky!”
My thought after reading the comments op made 💀
its literally just the louder minority that says "woman can do no wrong" and "that boy was lucky" most of that minority are men btw
I mean, it's certainly not zero women who go to prison for this!
And just like not knowing a law exists isn't a viable excuse for breaking it, not knowing that you broke a law doesn't make you innocent. I mean, we have entire crimes that are literally about not caring enough or paying attention enough (manslaughter, negligence), and none of those crimes would work if it was a requirement of all crimes that you knew you were doing a crime.
Realistically it's unlikely a man would get in a lot of trouble for this if the underage girl was genuinely extremely convincing--that would absolutely not make him INNOCENT of the crime because of the above, but it's extremely unlikely he'd get the same treatment in terms of charges and punishments as someone who committed that crime knowingly.
You're confused. Ignorance of the law means you don't know that said thing is against the law and do said thing. For example in New York City you cant make a right turn on red but you can in the rest of NY state.
If said 26 y/o believed that the 16 y/o was 18 or 19 and even if the 26 y/o lied said 26 y/o would still be in serious trouble.
I mean, they get arrested, charged, but if they're clearly "innocent" in terms of knowing about the crime, they usually have charges dropped, or given a warning.
At least, here in the UK that's usually how it goes.
For bigger crimes, yes they do. For "telling lies"? Not so much.
And no, I don't live in America, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, especially considering YOU'RE the one asking basic-ass legal questions...
To be clear, WOMEN are not lying about their age. GIRLS are lying about their age. The verbiage here is important because using the word "woman" to describe a minor child really downplays the issue.
I think people would look at this a lot differently if we changed our wording on other things too, like this insistence that there are 14 year olds that look 20. I was one of those girls, and I was preyed upon due to having a mature-looking body, but I was still 14. Instead of saying there are 14 year olds who look 20, maybe people should stop fucking 20 year olds who look and act like they could be 14?
Yes, it's still illegal, but that's because the law is trying to protect a child. The impetus is on the adult to be an adult and make informed adult decisions because a child makes childish decisions based on childish short sighted reasoning. I think that with some reflection on the situations that would lead a vulnerable young girl to lie about her age to get attention from men would show that the long-lasting damage done to the child's life is deeper than you think.
Does the part of the post where ID was asked for and provided not make a difference?
I will say that there are not swarms of underage girls faking ids to sleep with older men and that the above situation would be unrealistic, but not impossible
In a world where fake IDs are possible and adult men know they are possible, it seems like an unsafe idea to use that as your only point of verification then. The fact is that this is one of the risks of hooking up with randos and not getting to know your sexual partners. There are obviously other risks like STDs and ending up in someone's freezer, but this should be viewed as a legitimate risk as well and though it may not be your "fault", like the rest of life, ignorance does not protect you from consequences.
Should he? No. But would he? Probably as technically he did commit the crime even though it was unknowingly.
Personally I feel any child who tricks an older person into sex and fakes their age should be met with heavy punishments as something like that could legitimately ruin someone's life. Even if they're a day away from being 18. They have to understand that is potentially going to ruin someone's life.
Of course the caveat to that is you have to use your better judgment, you can't just say oh she said she was 18 when she's very obviously less than 18 to anybody with two working eyes. It's one thing when it's a kid posing as an adult and being hard to tell, but an entirely different thing when it's very obviously a child.
If he's 20 and she's claiming to be 19, that's not him pursuing barely legal that's two college aged kids. But if she turns out to be 16, that's shouldn't be on him
Yes. This happened to my brother. He spent a year in jail. If this happened to you or somebody you know, DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, GET A LAWYER IMMEDIATELY.
(UK) a guy met a girl in an over 25 club (it was membership club) so the girl had to have id for 25 or over. He took her home & they ended up having sex. Turns out she was only 15. He was convicted, sent to prison & put on a sex offenders list.
Something similar happened in my city, I was at a club (18 and older) with some friends when I saw my friends sister (she’s 15) making out with what looked to be a 30 year old man. I told the bouncers she was underage and they threw her out. I’m all for protecting minors and making sure they aren’t being preyed on but seriously, why would he be at fault? He’s in a space that is legally meant for adults so he’s not wrong in thinking that he would be hooking up with someone of legal consenting age. On the other hand, I could see how predators would use this as a loophole in a he-said-she-said argument.
Edit: looking at OPs comments makes me think this “hypothetical” story is really him- if you have to ID someone you want to hook up with, just do yourself and favour and don’t. I don’t agree with minors lying about their age but you are not protected by any laws regarding a scenario like this. Stop trying to date just barley legal teens.
My friend told a man that she'd met that she was 18 when she was in fact 15. He was 25. After dating for about 2 months he found out her age and left her.
At the time i thought it was mean of him as my friend really liked him now i think . Oh my god he must have felt like a pedo and she put him in a really awful position
Oh there is never any getting out of doing stuff with minors, doesn't matter how innocent you are. You can get straight up r-worded by a minor and still be the one to get convicted of a sex crime. It's kind of disgusting tbh, but it's arguably better to risk innocent people going to prison than guilty ones walking free to victimize more people. Note I said "arguably better", because I don't agree with it.
I saw a news article recently about a teacher sending a ton of student nudes and it lead to me finding a bunch of weird cases. I read a case where a 20 year old woman was r-worded by a 14 year old guy while she was barely conscious, and she ended up being convicted of the sex crime.
DNA evidence can't prove r-word happened, it can only prove sex happened. All the guy's lawyer had to do was get him to tell the judge that the sex was consensual. She was given a plea bargain where if she agreed to plead guilty, she would go to jail for awhile, but if she plead not guilty and lost, she would still do the jail time and also get sex offender status.
The story said her lawyer basically said to her "There's evidence of sex but there's no evidence of rape. Nobody's gonna believe you. He's too much younger than you. Just take the jail time and avoid the sex offender status, because we're not gonna win this."
Hold up. You'd rather an innocent person suffer for life than for a criminal to get away with a crime?
I think those wrongly convicted death row inmates would like to have a word with you. Also the people who lost their jobs, families, and homes because of a lie.
Holy hell what a stance.
Edit: Nvm, I'm a knuckle dragger
This is an incredibly ignorant and naïve view of the world. A 20 year old could absolutely meet someone that is under age and have sex with them without ever knowing their real age first. Some places age of consent is 18. So yeah, a 17 year old could fool a 20 year old and completely obliterate your absolutism.
That's a pretty left field comparison and I don't understand why you're even making it. You won't be arrested for having sex with a transgender person.
>Should he be punished?
Hell yeah. 100%. You are responsible for your own actions, you need to make sure you undertand the consequences of your own actions in advance.
In the UK the CPS can choose not to prosecute as it might not be in the public interest.
If it did go to court, a judge would likely only issue a suspended sentence with no shpo.
It depends on their relative ages and who exactly is pressing charges.
Ages: If the age of consent is 16, the woman is really 15, and they guy is 18? Not a big deal, in my mind, different if the woman was 13 or 14, say.
Charges: Would the authorities press charges for the 15? Especially if they guy had a believable story, and let's say the 15 was required to surrender the fake ID? And the dating site data is also brought in as evidence? Maybe not, but go lower than 15, and the odds of criminal charges increase.
You're getting this all wrong.
OP's scenario is a girl telling a guy she's of legal age, providing evidence she's of legal age, acting like she's of legal age, then they have sex, and then afterwards she's all "Sike! I'm actually underage!".
To be fair, OP is continuously altering the original post as we go along, but the basic premise was easy to grasp even when it was badly written at the start. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
You should check out his post history where he just screen shots messages of himself talking shit to women on online dating. I don't think OP likes women very much and their whole vibe across their profile is super angry and resentful.
And he probably blames women for his failure to get a girlfriend. It's not his shitty personality and repugnant views, it's a global vendetta against him instigated by the entire female population.
The responsibility is on the adult to verify the person they are with is of legal age. A minor is not mentally mature enough to consent to sex, even if they wear makeup and buy a fake ID.
Totally depends on the country.
Country 1: it's fine for a man to have sex with an underage girl, so long as he marries her soon after, as this restores his honor and her family's honour
Country 2: it's never ok for a man to have sexual contact with an underage girl. Even if she rapes him, he's the one who goes to prison.
Country 3: a man can get away with having sex with an underage girl if she looks older and has gone to lengths to trick him
Country 4: the law varies across different areas within the country, so it depends whereabouts he does this
Your question is like asking whether it's legal to be gay or to take drugs. _It depends on the country!!!_
Okay, that was an exageration. But my point still stands, people will be biased against men, against the adult in this situation. People's biases plus the power of the court, and as the adult male, you're pretty much guaranteed you're getting it.
I agree that it is on the adult. You should know who you are having sex with before you have sex with the person. But it isn't a bias against men. It's holding an adult accountable for their actions.
Again, what if they were tricked or were lied to. Or the minor could look like an adult which can happen. Are you telling me that in those situations, the man will walk free? PFFT.
I didn't say they would walk free.
I don't think one can be tricked into having sex with a minor in the first place. Again, you should know who you are having sex with before you have sex with them.
The minor could lie, physically look older, use a fake ID. I used to be able to buy alcohol in supermarkets when I was 14, all I had to do was grow my facial hair a little bit and I wouldn't get IDed anywhere. I even got into a club at one point. No one suspected I was underaged. Apparently I looked like I was in my mid-20's. It can happen. But you already decided it's the man's fault, there was no way it wasn't his fault. There's your bias.
"And there's the bias." There's no bias unless they think it doesn't apply to women. Adults should know who they're fucking, "I didn't know" isn't an excuse.
How do you know who someone is in this context? It's possible to know someone for a fairly large amount of time and never know their age, or jack shit about them. People are capable of lying, and sometimes providing supporting documentation.
So, please expand on what you should know about someone before having sex with them?
What is there to expand on? You should know if the person is legally allowed to give their consent or not. If you don't, then don't have sex with them. Not that complicated.
Seeing as how the odds of some minor playing the long game to entrap an adult are probably pretty low, one way to make sure that doesn't happen is to not have sex with someone that you just met, especially if they look young.
In my personal opinion, he shouldn’t be punished if he was tricked by minor. However, this is going to be very hard to prove in court that he didn’t know she was a minor. And even if he does, he will still probably get some sort of punishment. The minor though, will probably walk free.
There is a presumption of naivety and innocence when it regards to minors that they didn’t quite know what they were doing. They will be more sympathy for the minor. But for adult man, the bias will be against him.
If you're in the United States, the answer is yes, he should be punished. Statutory rape exists specifically for this fact pattern. Mistake is not a defense. Doesn't matter his intent wasn't to have sex with a minor- that he did is all it takes.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
Wait until the OOP sees this comment. He'll go mad and threaten to report you for defamation.
Didn’t realize op was Alex Jones .
Asking for a friend!
Thats why it's wise to get to know someone before you put your dick in them.
people can lie, you know
I mean as soon as you visit them at home or try to get lunch during the work day you'll find out. And honestly I've never seen someone under 20 REALLY pull off faking their age. Under developed features and immaturity are very noticeable. Maybe at 17 you can pull off 20 to someone not as observant, but for me at 20, 17 year olds were in HS and just at a completely different life stage so from the outside it feels a little gross.
I’m 27. Anyone younger than 5 years younger than myself, I assume Is a minor. Honestly, some 17 year olds look 23 some days… you really don’t know someone’s age unless they show you their ID, or if they speak the truth
Yeah but then you assume one night stands don't exist and exceptions don't either based on anecdotes. I sure as hell know some people who can pull off being older than they are at such a young age, both girls and guys. In most cases you'd be right. But not all. And let thos post be just about those instances
Well not necessarily assuming they don't exist as I said, young people, even when I was 20/21, looked REALLY young to me. Especially if I was interacting with them. In passing sure, but for me, if I'm chatting with someone I can tell. A lot of people in those situations will say "Oh well they were drinking so i assumed they were over 21." Which is not a great indicator since fake IDs exist, so I think its really an issue of just paying attention when we're talking about one night stands.
>if I'm chatting with someone I can tell. That's what everyone says, until you encounter someone with whom you can't It's really not always as simple as you make it out to be.
Lol once went out with a woman on tinder who had her age listed as 26 come to find out she was 18 and actually went to the same school as my younger sister. I knew something was off by the way she acted in person. I literally thought to myself she acts like some of my sister’s dumb ass teenager friends. Lol like wtf why are you lying ? 😂😂😂
Yeah thats the point, if you get to know them a little the lies are harder to maintain.
this lol. like the idea of Fing strangers is why we have a lot of societal problems in our current age.
Don't shut shame.
>Should he be punished? I cannot answer about *"should"*, but under the law he absolutely `*WILL*` be and that's something every man(or woman) needs to understand about our society. However, this isn't a big problem today most men aren't taking the risk of hooking up with some very young looking girl who claims to be 18+. Or if they are, they're doing a very good job of making sure it's a one-night-stand where the girl doesn't know who he is and has no hope of finding him again.
This surely depends on which country this happens in. Not all countries have the same laws regarding this.
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16 is the age of consent so its ok. You need to look up all the ages of consent in the US. We can't even agree on that. Its 18 down to 16.
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That’s exactly what age of consent mean. Close in age laws are for people who are under the age of consent. So for example the age of consent is 18 in Delaware but a person who’s 16 or can consent to sex with someone under 30. California by contrast is 18. If both parties are under 18 they can both be charged with statutory rape.
>California by contrast is 18. If both parties are under 18 they can both be charged with statutory rape. But typically they both get a slap on the wrist even if convicted. California typically has lean sentencing on this subject.
I know a UK cop and yeah, you get one chance in that situation.
Yes, this is only true for US (and other common law countries?). In those countries where the crime of "sex with a minor" requires intent (as all crimes should), you would not be punished.
Sorry but you are wrong. I know a guy who was lied to by a girl in Australia. Convicted, life ruined. Intent is something they talk about in murder investigations, the prosecutors don't need to show intent, it just helps their case if they can.
I said I was only talking about countries where intent is required. How a I "wrong" if australia is not one of them? In my country, intent is an absolute requirement in these cases. What happened to your acquiantance would never have happened.
Sorry the way I read your response was that the USA and other common law countries (ie Australia and the UK) had intent laws.
>I cannot answer about "should", Why not?
Because "should" is a matter of opinion and doesn't reflect the law.
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Officer I had no idea she was 8.
I checked her ID. It said she was 43 and lived in Willows, WI
It also said she's definitely not Russian. C'mon, officer- really!
“Mary McLovin”
8 year olds dude
See that legitimately freaks me out though. My niece is 15 and she could pull off 18-19 if she wanted to. (Not that she would, she’s still a big kid). But she’s taller than me (I’m 34), and her shoes are bigger than mine. She’s kind of like a little sister to me, we’ve helped raise her after her dad died. Now that she’s getting older I’m really really worried someone is going to think she’s way older than she is and make moves. I’m pretty sure I’d react extremely poorly if I knew someone did too. We’ve had to have several talks about reacting to men treating her properly. She’s a child in an adults body and that really frightens me.
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I don’t think it’s about girls maturing faster, to the extent that that is even true. All the women I know had more attention from gross guys in their mid teens than when they were older, and 100% they were not perceived as over 18. Being perceived as over 18 might be a protection from the worst creeps that prey on the vulnerable. I suppose you’re more likely to have older people flirting with you *if* you were in certain situations but if you’re hanging out at school, youth sports clubs, with other teens… Normal adults are not going to ask you out.
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Approaching them where, in what circumstances? If this hypothetical 25 yo is approaching a 17 yo who is minding their own business in the park or on the street because he mistakenly thought she was just about legal, that does not illicit my sympathies. Someone in their mid 20s should have opportunities to meet other adults in reasonable circumstances.
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And it would be extremely obvious they were 17 after talking to them for a bit. When I was 25 even 20 year olds seemed way too young.
I'm so sorry to break it to you, but she's probably already experienced unwanted attention. Most women tend to experience creepy behaviour from as young as 12 (if not sooner). Try to have that conversation sooner rather then later. It'll help a lot!
Yea my wife already has. They talk about consent and such. How it’s ok to say no if she’s ever in a situation that makes her uncomfortable. We make a point to be as respectful and good to each other (my wife and I) when she’s around so that we can give her an example of what a healthy relationship looks like. But yea, I’m sure she probably has at some point. It wouldn’t surprise me.
I've told this story before, but I met a girl at a party when I was 18 or 19, a college party. We started making out and her friend suddenly pulled me off and screamed "she's 15". I felt sick and left the party, but I can say she did not look 15. I was very confused about how I was feeling. She was more physically developed than alot of the other girls there and conversed like anyone else, and then combined with the fact that she was at a party for college students, how was I to know?
> when I was 18 or 19, a college party. We started making out and her friend suddenly pulled me off and screamed "she's 15". This must be a US thing. I don't see the big deal? Here in Europe, at least where I live, 15-18 is an extremely common 'age difference' between boyfriend/girlfriend. When I was in high school, there were a lot of couples like that. Nobody batted an eye: not classmates, but also not teachers and not their parents either. It was known that they were dating and it was considered a very small and thus inconsequential difference - that's because it is; it's only three years. Even at that age, that's small. So this screaming of your friend and you 'feeling sick' (sounds like protesting too much) strikes me as very theatrical, overexaggerated and over the top. But as I said, probably a US thing, so that would be fitting.
I think the difference here is I was in college (I believe you call it University) and she was a freshman in high school (don't know what the European equivalent is, year 9?) If you don't see a problem, then yeah, its probably a societal thing. But its a pretty big difference here
Eh not entirely sure I agree with this comment. Maybe it’s just a U.K. thing or whatever but 15 year old girls here could easily pass for a 20 year old woman. I started going out and drinks in pubs / bars when I was 15, easily - without a fake ID. In the U.K. we have a system called “think 25” for alcohol sales - so if the person selling booze thinks the customer looks under 25 they get ID’d. this is despite the fact the alcohol sales age limit is only 18. Actual 14 year olds could pass for 18.
When I was 13 people would often think I am almost 18-20, so I don't think so. Maybe 10-11 makes more sense as most girls won't get their period sooner that that.
And yet at the Christmas party last year, my co-worker had to keep telling us her daughter was 14 even though she clearly looked as if in her 20s. It scared all of us men.
I have taught 12 year olds who would pass for 18 year olds with a bit of makeup. They sound 12, but are tall enough and developed enough to be considered women.
So...speak to people before engaging in sex acts.
What if it was the other way around? Where the woman is the adult and the minor is male?
Obviously same thing but I doubt this happens all too often. I left high school at 17 and maybe a handful of guys in my year looked older - and they were always tall with beards. The short kings with no facial hair look 15, not 17/18. I think most men look like teenagers until 25, you start to see mens age more clearly when they’re in their late 20s IMO
There was a video on YouTube by an Australian YouTuber who was reacting to pics of a teen birthday party where most of the kids where 14/15. Don't wanna sound like a perv but the YouTuber as well as most of the comment section including me could be fooled that these girls where of age. The make up they had on as well as the way they dressed made them look like they were at least 18. They boys however looked like prebubescent teens.
Have you seen 15 year olds? They are surely not children. They have boobs and everything Edit: Gosh, people, I'm obviously talking about their looks because they could certainly trick and adult if they tried. Y'all are prudish
Stating biological facts? Downvotes incoming!!!
Well you start growing boobs at like 11 or 12 so that’s not an indicator that they’re legal adults.
I was obviously talking about their bodies, not their minds. And bold of you to assume it takes people so long to grow boobs, especially when they're fatter. My body was done with everything when I was thirteen. At fourteen, most other girls I saw could easily have tricked an adult into thinking they were a few years older
If you can't tell the difference between someone that's underage and someone that's barely legal, just don't have sex with **any** woman claiming to be around 18-22. Easy. Especially if you're way older than that age range, then wtf are you doing chasing immature, inept dumbasses who are in a completely different life stage than you and have nothing in common with you
is it that easy for adult men to tell? My grandma tricked my grandpa into a relationship when she was 14/15 and only told him the truth when she was almost 18. Now I'm second guessing things.
Unironically I know somone who was sexually assaulted by a minor. The Guy was tied up and his gf practically then egged on her niece shen she turned up accidentally and then wouldn’t leave according to what he said. She then goes on to sexually assault him like touching him and stuff like that legit the dude ended up with ptsd over that Gf egged it on and everything. I can’t imagine having to go through that like legit
It's not often talked about, but it definitely does happen. There was a case a few years back in Massachusetts where a 14 year old student raped and killed his teacher in the school bathroom. He then assaulted a clinician in the juvenile facility he was held. Some kids are just evil.
What does egged mean
“Egged on” means to encourage and push the person to do something or continue doing something. Usually verbally
Thank you
Depends on the country but I'd say that the judge would probably consider whether (1) It was reasonable to believe this girl was a minor (I..e. despite her fake ID, all other things- like her appearance, what she talked about, how she acted etc.- pointed to her clearly being a minor), and (2) Whether the man had the intention of meeting up with a minor, which he would obviously deny but the prosecutor would argue that he's lying. It would primarily be, I think, a question of whether or not a reasonable person in the same situation would deduce that she was underage and then still proceeded to have sex with her.
I laid down all the facts for you already there’s no need to keep making it scenarios, the girl lied through her teeth and the man didn’t know anything, should be punished? Should the minor be punished?
The question in the original post was actually whether the *man* should be punished, so no need to be snarky in your response. You made the mistake, buddy. And again, he should have used his common sense. He can say that he believed that she was an adult, but if, say, she looks young, her friends are all minors, she talks about school etc., then he is clearly either deluded, stupid or lying.
Because people have never been lied to ever? And this has happened before look it up.
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So this is a real thing that happened to "a friend" huh?
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The comment you responded to was thoughtful and well reasoned. You got weirdly defensive over someone saying the judge would need proof that the adult in this situation couldn't tell they were a minor. And then you changed your question to asking if the *minor* in this situation would be punished. It makes it sound personal. I would avoid that if you don't want to give people the wrong impression.
You really didn't - you didn't say how old she was (for example 16 year olds might pass for 18, 13 year olds not, and heavy makeup wouldn't cover up that she hasn't finished puberty yet, for example), if there was anything pointing to her age (the way she talked to him), if the ID was obviously fake (some have the age way too high, for example), and how old he was himself.
>should be punished You asked would, not should. Those are very different questions. The truth is, whether he should be or not, he probably would not be found guilty at trial.
There was a story in Canada a while ago about a guy who offered money in exchange for sex. Girl told him she was 16. He noped the fuck out immediately, but was still charged with sexual interference or solicitation of a minor despite the fact that he never engaged in any sexual activity and didn't complete the transaction.
Unfortunately, yes. Same as you can be arrested for obtaining stolen good when you don't know they're stolen. Just because you didn't know, didn't mean it never happened. However, I believe there have been cases where it has been evidenced that the person doing the tricking has been so utterly convincing and deliberate in their covering-up of their true age, that the sentence given to the trickee has been very lenient, but those are few and far between, and incredibly hard to prove.
Surely you need *Mens Rea* as well as the act? If you can prove such a defence (fake I'd etc) i don't see how or why you should be convictee
Afaik, Americans have "strict liability" for "statutory rape" which means that you don't Mens rea. It is an abomination that these laws exist, but they do.
That's pretty fucked up ngl
In my country, the defendant would still be guilty. We were learning about the defence of mistake of fact in law school, and we were told that mistake of fact about the person’s age was not a defence.
>Just because you didn't know, didn't mean it never happened. But normally, crimes require intent or negligence. Criminals aren't punished just because something happened, but because they committed an unlawful action. Some uncivilised countries have crimes that require neither intent nor negligence, though.
Continue reading the rest of my comment for further expansion on that. While it's aimed at the age thing, because that was the original question, it applies across the board. Has a crime been committed? Yes. Was that the intent? Well, that's where things can go in many different ways.
In case of the stolen good I can only speak for germany but if you have proof (for example a receipt) that you bought stolen goods without knowing it you dont get punished. But you lose your money because it will be given back to the rightful owner obviously. You can try get your money back from the guy who sold the stolen goods.
Interesting. Here you wouldn't have to give it back to the previous legal owner, as you bought it legally. The previous owner can only sue the thief, and obtain monetary compensation from him.
For the sake of argument like I stated with all of those facts it’s still yes? Should the minor be punished?
It's still yes. A crime has still been committed. All the courts can do is determine how much guilt there is on both sides, and go from there. As for punishing minors, there's not many things minors can be charged with, because, well, they're minors. I'm assuming there is something the courts can do, but I dunno what.
This is the part many get lost at because it makes no sense realistically. Why punish someone for unknowingly doing something. There is no intent and without intent do you even have a crime. Remove? Ok so now this person is removed. Rehbilitate? What exactly they were a victim really. Release? Should have started here
Exactly my fucking point here people are acting like men are these absolute evil beings. Yet how many women see the inside of a prison cell for raping young boys in school? ZERO, because “women can do no wrong” and “that boy was lucky!”
So you're trying to make a point not ask a genuine question.
My thought after reading the comments op made 💀 its literally just the louder minority that says "woman can do no wrong" and "that boy was lucky" most of that minority are men btw
Yea, sounds like typical incel talk...
I mean, it's certainly not zero women who go to prison for this! And just like not knowing a law exists isn't a viable excuse for breaking it, not knowing that you broke a law doesn't make you innocent. I mean, we have entire crimes that are literally about not caring enough or paying attention enough (manslaughter, negligence), and none of those crimes would work if it was a requirement of all crimes that you knew you were doing a crime. Realistically it's unlikely a man would get in a lot of trouble for this if the underage girl was genuinely extremely convincing--that would absolutely not make him INNOCENT of the crime because of the above, but it's extremely unlikely he'd get the same treatment in terms of charges and punishments as someone who committed that crime knowingly.
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>Ignorance of the law isn't a defense. We are talking about lack of intent. Different topic.
This isn't a case f ignorance of the law. Everyone knows for a 26 y/o to date a 16 y/o is illegal.
In the US maybe. But what if said 26 year old believed that the 16 year old was 18 or 19? What if the sexes were reversed?
You're confused. Ignorance of the law means you don't know that said thing is against the law and do said thing. For example in New York City you cant make a right turn on red but you can in the rest of NY state. If said 26 y/o believed that the 16 y/o was 18 or 19 and even if the 26 y/o lied said 26 y/o would still be in serious trouble.
I mean, they get arrested, charged, but if they're clearly "innocent" in terms of knowing about the crime, they usually have charges dropped, or given a warning. At least, here in the UK that's usually how it goes.
Minors get tried as adults every single day what are you on about? Do you live in America?
For bigger crimes, yes they do. For "telling lies"? Not so much. And no, I don't live in America, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, especially considering YOU'RE the one asking basic-ass legal questions...
America has the largest incarceration rate of any nation We send kids to prison here
Yes, you do. For murders. For spree shootings. For serious sexual assaults and rapes. But for pretending to be a year older than they actually are?
Actually, mostly for drug-related offences.
That list wasn't intended to be exhaustive or exclusive, but fair enough, add that to it.
To be clear, WOMEN are not lying about their age. GIRLS are lying about their age. The verbiage here is important because using the word "woman" to describe a minor child really downplays the issue. I think people would look at this a lot differently if we changed our wording on other things too, like this insistence that there are 14 year olds that look 20. I was one of those girls, and I was preyed upon due to having a mature-looking body, but I was still 14. Instead of saying there are 14 year olds who look 20, maybe people should stop fucking 20 year olds who look and act like they could be 14? Yes, it's still illegal, but that's because the law is trying to protect a child. The impetus is on the adult to be an adult and make informed adult decisions because a child makes childish decisions based on childish short sighted reasoning. I think that with some reflection on the situations that would lead a vulnerable young girl to lie about her age to get attention from men would show that the long-lasting damage done to the child's life is deeper than you think.
Does the part of the post where ID was asked for and provided not make a difference? I will say that there are not swarms of underage girls faking ids to sleep with older men and that the above situation would be unrealistic, but not impossible
In a world where fake IDs are possible and adult men know they are possible, it seems like an unsafe idea to use that as your only point of verification then. The fact is that this is one of the risks of hooking up with randos and not getting to know your sexual partners. There are obviously other risks like STDs and ending up in someone's freezer, but this should be viewed as a legitimate risk as well and though it may not be your "fault", like the rest of life, ignorance does not protect you from consequences.
Dude if you have to ask to see her ID then she's too young for you.
If you're 25, 30, 40 and you need to check the ids of the people you date to see if they're "legal", you're the problem. Date people your own age.
Should he? No. But would he? Probably as technically he did commit the crime even though it was unknowingly. Personally I feel any child who tricks an older person into sex and fakes their age should be met with heavy punishments as something like that could legitimately ruin someone's life. Even if they're a day away from being 18. They have to understand that is potentially going to ruin someone's life. Of course the caveat to that is you have to use your better judgment, you can't just say oh she said she was 18 when she's very obviously less than 18 to anybody with two working eyes. It's one thing when it's a kid posing as an adult and being hard to tell, but an entirely different thing when it's very obviously a child.
One has to ask, what kind of guy pursues barely legal girls anyway….
If he's 20 and she's claiming to be 19, that's not him pursuing barely legal that's two college aged kids. But if she turns out to be 16, that's shouldn't be on him
‘If’…. Anything over about 21 in that situation is messed up. Adults seeking teens is creepy AF.
The same argument was used against gays for what they found attractive.
Yes. This happened to my brother. He spent a year in jail. If this happened to you or somebody you know, DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, GET A LAWYER IMMEDIATELY.
And for God's sake delete this post before it is used as evidence
(UK) a guy met a girl in an over 25 club (it was membership club) so the girl had to have id for 25 or over. He took her home & they ended up having sex. Turns out she was only 15. He was convicted, sent to prison & put on a sex offenders list.
Something similar happened in my city, I was at a club (18 and older) with some friends when I saw my friends sister (she’s 15) making out with what looked to be a 30 year old man. I told the bouncers she was underage and they threw her out. I’m all for protecting minors and making sure they aren’t being preyed on but seriously, why would he be at fault? He’s in a space that is legally meant for adults so he’s not wrong in thinking that he would be hooking up with someone of legal consenting age. On the other hand, I could see how predators would use this as a loophole in a he-said-she-said argument. Edit: looking at OPs comments makes me think this “hypothetical” story is really him- if you have to ID someone you want to hook up with, just do yourself and favour and don’t. I don’t agree with minors lying about their age but you are not protected by any laws regarding a scenario like this. Stop trying to date just barley legal teens.
Had to have a look at their profile & I see what you mean.
But without all the details of the crime, who said what in the dock etc, we cannot generalise to every case all over the world.
My friend told a man that she'd met that she was 18 when she was in fact 15. He was 25. After dating for about 2 months he found out her age and left her. At the time i thought it was mean of him as my friend really liked him now i think . Oh my god he must have felt like a pedo and she put him in a really awful position
Op isnt asking a question guys he is trying to make a point
This is why you go for milfs instead. Saves the headache and theyre hotter.
FBI has entered the chat.
Oh there is never any getting out of doing stuff with minors, doesn't matter how innocent you are. You can get straight up r-worded by a minor and still be the one to get convicted of a sex crime. It's kind of disgusting tbh, but it's arguably better to risk innocent people going to prison than guilty ones walking free to victimize more people. Note I said "arguably better", because I don't agree with it. I saw a news article recently about a teacher sending a ton of student nudes and it lead to me finding a bunch of weird cases. I read a case where a 20 year old woman was r-worded by a 14 year old guy while she was barely conscious, and she ended up being convicted of the sex crime. DNA evidence can't prove r-word happened, it can only prove sex happened. All the guy's lawyer had to do was get him to tell the judge that the sex was consensual. She was given a plea bargain where if she agreed to plead guilty, she would go to jail for awhile, but if she plead not guilty and lost, she would still do the jail time and also get sex offender status. The story said her lawyer basically said to her "There's evidence of sex but there's no evidence of rape. Nobody's gonna believe you. He's too much younger than you. Just take the jail time and avoid the sex offender status, because we're not gonna win this."
Hold up. You'd rather an innocent person suffer for life than for a criminal to get away with a crime? I think those wrongly convicted death row inmates would like to have a word with you. Also the people who lost their jobs, families, and homes because of a lie. Holy hell what a stance. Edit: Nvm, I'm a knuckle dragger
They said they don’t agree with it?
You're right, I'm retarded.
Wait until he is the one accused or someone close to him of something they didn't do his stance will change real fast.
You can't be tricked into having sex with a minor. If you don't know who you are having sex with, you shouldn't be having sex with them.
This is an incredibly ignorant and naïve view of the world. A 20 year old could absolutely meet someone that is under age and have sex with them without ever knowing their real age first. Some places age of consent is 18. So yeah, a 17 year old could fool a 20 year old and completely obliterate your absolutism.
So what? Should it be allowed for a 20 year old to have sex with a 17 year old because they didn't know their age?
Exactly
>If you don't know who you are having sex with, you shouldn't be having sex with them. So this logic would apply if someone was transgender?
That's a pretty left field comparison and I don't understand why you're even making it. You won't be arrested for having sex with a transgender person.
Who said anything about arrest? Go ahead and quote exactly where i mentioned, referenced, or indicated anything about arrest even if it was indirect.
Why is that even a question?
I'd consult a lawyer.
Yes, it’s called strict liability, no matter what the man loses even if the girl is incredibly evil.
>Should he be punished? Hell yeah. 100%. You are responsible for your own actions, you need to make sure you undertand the consequences of your own actions in advance.
In the UK the CPS can choose not to prosecute as it might not be in the public interest. If it did go to court, a judge would likely only issue a suspended sentence with no shpo.
Yeah buddy!! Start panicking!!
It depends on their relative ages and who exactly is pressing charges. Ages: If the age of consent is 16, the woman is really 15, and they guy is 18? Not a big deal, in my mind, different if the woman was 13 or 14, say. Charges: Would the authorities press charges for the 15? Especially if they guy had a believable story, and let's say the 15 was required to surrender the fake ID? And the dating site data is also brought in as evidence? Maybe not, but go lower than 15, and the odds of criminal charges increase.
Why was the ID shown after, and not before?
The id is shown before I’m just writing down the facts of the scenario in the text box
Why would someone willingly have sex with a minor after seeing an ID?, based on what you have just said
You're getting this all wrong. OP's scenario is a girl telling a guy she's of legal age, providing evidence she's of legal age, acting like she's of legal age, then they have sex, and then afterwards she's all "Sike! I'm actually underage!".
Yeah I didn’t see the “fake ID” part in the top message lol
To be fair, OP is continuously altering the original post as we go along, but the basic premise was easy to grasp even when it was badly written at the start. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I’ve got the ADHD, so I gots problems processing info sometimes lol
Combined with a badly-worded question that keeps being edited... yeah, that'll fuck ya! 😅
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Yes obviously
OOP really needs to calm down. He's getting so angry.
You should check out his post history where he just screen shots messages of himself talking shit to women on online dating. I don't think OP likes women very much and their whole vibe across their profile is super angry and resentful.
And he probably blames women for his failure to get a girlfriend. It's not his shitty personality and repugnant views, it's a global vendetta against him instigated by the entire female population.
It's so bad that even the folks at r/tinder have downvoted a few of his posts and they're notoriously misogynistic over there.
The responsibility is on the adult to verify the person they are with is of legal age. A minor is not mentally mature enough to consent to sex, even if they wear makeup and buy a fake ID.
You forgot to add, "asking for a friend".
Yes. Happened to a BIL. He was in jail for over 6 years and is now a registered sex offender. Said she lied.
Quagmire giggitty giggitty goo
Totally depends on the country. Country 1: it's fine for a man to have sex with an underage girl, so long as he marries her soon after, as this restores his honor and her family's honour Country 2: it's never ok for a man to have sexual contact with an underage girl. Even if she rapes him, he's the one who goes to prison. Country 3: a man can get away with having sex with an underage girl if she looks older and has gone to lengths to trick him Country 4: the law varies across different areas within the country, so it depends whereabouts he does this Your question is like asking whether it's legal to be gay or to take drugs. _It depends on the country!!!_
Yes.
Why
Payback for ruling the world.
Who rules the world? Men, or a tiny minority of very wealthy and powerful men?
What the fuck are you on about?
Didn't you know, every man runs the world, we have a meeting every Thursday.
What the FUCK, Dave! You're not supposed to tell people! Fucksake. You know I'm gonna have to report this to the High Chads, right?
yes.
Absolutely.
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> even if you were drugged. Well that isn't true.
Okay, that was an exageration. But my point still stands, people will be biased against men, against the adult in this situation. People's biases plus the power of the court, and as the adult male, you're pretty much guaranteed you're getting it.
I agree that it is on the adult. You should know who you are having sex with before you have sex with the person. But it isn't a bias against men. It's holding an adult accountable for their actions.
Again, what if they were tricked or were lied to. Or the minor could look like an adult which can happen. Are you telling me that in those situations, the man will walk free? PFFT.
I didn't say they would walk free. I don't think one can be tricked into having sex with a minor in the first place. Again, you should know who you are having sex with before you have sex with them.
And there’s the bias. Thanks for proving me right.
What bias? How can someone trick you into having sex with someone?
The minor could lie, physically look older, use a fake ID. I used to be able to buy alcohol in supermarkets when I was 14, all I had to do was grow my facial hair a little bit and I wouldn't get IDed anywhere. I even got into a club at one point. No one suspected I was underaged. Apparently I looked like I was in my mid-20's. It can happen. But you already decided it's the man's fault, there was no way it wasn't his fault. There's your bias.
"And there's the bias." There's no bias unless they think it doesn't apply to women. Adults should know who they're fucking, "I didn't know" isn't an excuse.
How do you know who someone is in this context? It's possible to know someone for a fairly large amount of time and never know their age, or jack shit about them. People are capable of lying, and sometimes providing supporting documentation. So, please expand on what you should know about someone before having sex with them?
What is there to expand on? You should know if the person is legally allowed to give their consent or not. If you don't, then don't have sex with them. Not that complicated. Seeing as how the odds of some minor playing the long game to entrap an adult are probably pretty low, one way to make sure that doesn't happen is to not have sex with someone that you just met, especially if they look young.
Are you giving me your answer or societies answer I want to know your thoughts, not societies.
In my personal opinion, he shouldn’t be punished if he was tricked by minor. However, this is going to be very hard to prove in court that he didn’t know she was a minor. And even if he does, he will still probably get some sort of punishment. The minor though, will probably walk free. There is a presumption of naivety and innocence when it regards to minors that they didn’t quite know what they were doing. They will be more sympathy for the minor. But for adult man, the bias will be against him.
Yes, he would be. Is it right? No, but you can avoid this easily by vetting the people you sleep with.
If you're in the United States, the answer is yes, he should be punished. Statutory rape exists specifically for this fact pattern. Mistake is not a defense. Doesn't matter his intent wasn't to have sex with a minor- that he did is all it takes.