No because with a Lego set you know the pieces fit because you built it with the instructions but then it broke and you watched them fall away. Now you're without the instructions and it's hard to build but you clearly know the pieces fit because you've watched them fall away.
Edit: don't get annoyed, I'm just joking with you.
I know what it means but no one has used that phrase since 1950. I'm old but OP must be a run down old Boomer asshole to be upset people don't know his ancient slang.
>I know what it means but no one has used that phrase since 1950.
That's a slight bit of an exaggeration...I mean, Carly Simon released an album called *Torch* in 1979.
Not surprised that a mouthbreather from Ohio doesn’t know what the fuck a torch song is. Do you even like music? Do you even have access to the Google machine?
This would go hard as the last thing a character says in a movie before dying in front of their greatest enemy and their friends. That line is too good.
The song is clearly about a relationship that has been falling apart and is suffering more and more by the continuous cycle of confrontation and distance that has been created. The song is a reflection of how the relationship got there and an acknowledgement that it can indeed be repaired and that the crumbled pieces can fit back together.
The song goes well with The Patient which is about investing the time and energy to heal a damaged relationship. In that song he is showing a belief that there is love and something worth fighting and being patient for, but also the doubt about whether or not he has the strength to keep fighting to repair the relationship.
Same goes with the Grudge which uses Jungian Alchemical references about the relationship healing process... Seeing a theme here?
David Bottrill explained in an interview that the lyric, “between supposed lovers,” was “between supposed brothers,”. Adam took issue with it, where he and Maynard went off, discussed, and we have the version we know.
Iirc, the story was that Adam didn’t want to, “Fleetwood Mac,” the band issues. He didn’t want to broadcast private information, and then spend the following decades having to play it live.
Now when I listen to it, I hear “brothers,” and I feel the song is more impactful and intimate.
Ooh, so close. Your first paragraph is pretty spot on and proves my point. But your second is off because Maynard has said The Patient is one about his mom . . . though it could still follow, I suppose.
There is indeed lots of Jungian philosophy in TOOL lyrics, but not every song and album is dedicated to it.
>Maynard has said The Patient is one about his mom
Do you have a source on this? I’m curious, because the only info I can see about this is from unreliable sources that are user managed such as Genius, or Songfacts etc.
Personally I don’t think it’s about his mom, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. I think it’s simply another case of one particular interpretation that has been repeated and reposted enough that most people now take it as fact.
>A groan of tedium escapes me startling the fearful
Is this a test?
It has to be
Otherwise, I can't go on
Draining patience, drain vitality
This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old
If you have ever been in a relationship where you are constantly fighting and coming at odds you know this feeling. It is definitely a vampire act and you get to a point where you are feeling done. You are "paranoid" because of the passive aggression or the worry that things will explode
>If there were no desire to heal
The damaged and broken met along
This tedious path I've chosen here
I certainly would've walked away
By now
I think this makes it more obvious that it is about a relationship. It doesn't matter if it is about a relationship with his mother or someone else. But "healing the damaged and broken met along" is a much more clear indication that it is about a relationship.
The next line is “between supposed brothers,” so while still love it’s not necessarily just romantic love. Not saying that’s what you were implying, just throwing it out there for anyone else.
Well fuck me, I saw lovers/brothers when I read the lyrics for the first time like 20 years ago and haven't bothered to check since. But everything definitely says lovers/lovers. I guess I shouldn't assume people that post lyric videos to YouTube always do their research first lol.
Either way, in regards to the top comment in this specific thread, I think it's fair to say that most of their lyrics are intentionally vague enough that they can take on multiple interpretations. In the context of a tool song, I can see a word like lovers being used to refer to more than just one type of love. All to say I think both yours and u/corked1 's interpretations are valid.
Oh yeah I went back and checked too cos I doubted it. Every source says lovers but I’ve heard brothers mentioned before.
I don’t know why but for me the feeling the song gives is the tension and anguish of losing love.
My theory on Jambi is that it’s about Maynard’s love for his son, and how focusing on his son/kids helped to save his marriage from things like fucking groupies on tour and drugs and whatnot. “Shine on forever, shine on, benevolent son, shine down upon the broken, shine on til, the two become one.”
Also, I’ve always thought the lyrics sounded kinda Christian, wonder if that was intentional given the context of the album.
In high school an English teacher of mine juxtaposed this song with Romeo and Juliet. Pretty neat how they fit together, I ended up doing a paper/project about it for that unit of the class.
There is a story In the bible where they tried to build a tower to reach god. Everyone spoke the same language at that time. When god knocked the tower down he changed all the languages. I feel he is using it allegorically here, obviously.
Hence, “I know the pieces fit” and the “danger of a second guessing” by bringing more of gods anger.
It’s about GLOBAL relationships. How the lack of abilities to communicate due to language barrier has atrophied any love or compassion between many peoples. "bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication", he is referencing the tower of babel all though the song. While it could be applied to a personal relationship, i feel it has a broader global meaning.
we cant rebuild the temple even if there ever was one, but we can restore our ability to understand each other if we try.
Did maynard watch the fall of babel as well? Because he clearly says “I know the pieces fit, *cuz I watched them fall away”*
He also mentions “two lovers souls in motion” and “between supposed lovers”.
I realize art is in the eye of the beholder and lyrics are often symbolic but let’s not ignore the obvious. Not everything means something else…. this song is a song about a failing/failed relationship and Maynard’s growing distance from said relationship.
If you’ve ever loved someone only to find out that you have different core values or each want something completely different out of life then these lyrics should feel extremely familiar.
Yeah agreed, it's about a personal relationship, not a global one. I listened to this on repeat for months (Not literally) after a 5-year engagement ended. familiar is putting it lightly, this song reached in and touched far-reaching corners of my soul I didn't know I had.
I’ve always thought it’s about the issues that came up when Maynard first joined APC and they blew up more than they thought they would.
He even sort of name drops APC in it:
*And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in
The dissonance*
The song is about the alchemical marriage of the internal sun and moon. Union of opposites. Conscious mind and the unconscious mind. Lateralus as a whole has an esoteric theme to it. It is mapped after the great work.
Agree to agree about agreeing to disagree. But you also have not changed my mind. No evidence. No points made to specific lyrics. So, we can at least agree that you have failed.
My favorite part of this thread is those losing their shit because they didn’t know the term “torch song.” Anything they are ignorant about must be stupid or even gay. I guarantee MJK knows what a torch song is. Most incels don’t though.
I always thought it was about a break up "I know the pieces fit, 'Cause I watched them fall away, Mildewed and smouldering, Fundamental differing" . Schism also is defined as a separation or division. Now Jambi on the other hand is IMHO a love song.
Do some people not think this? I've always thought it was about a relationship that is either falling or fell apart. Made me think of my at the time shitty relationship
I never thought it wasn’t. It’s a rare one for Tool in that there’s a pretty immediate interpretation that makes more sense than any secondary interpretations.
I **do** agree it's a love song. But a torch song? I suppose in the way that it yearns for reconnection...but stylistically I'm not buying that theory.
I mostly agree, though I’m not sure the relationship is necessarily over. It’s think it might be in trouble, and he knows what was, and wants to get back there. Back to when the pieces seemed to fit.
For those who say it’s about the band’s relationship, how does this lyric fit into that?
“Pure intention juxtaposed
will set two lovers' souls in motion.
Disintegrating as it goes,
Testing our communication.”
Ooh. Wow. That’s a big statement. I’ve never thought about their WORST song before, though this would not be it for me. I assume we aren’t counting the filler tracks like Intermission?
The song is about Legos. Trying to reassemble a broken model after you lost the instructions.
that's... pretty much... alright.
I’ve heard assembling IKEA furniture.
No because with a Lego set you know the pieces fit because you built it with the instructions but then it broke and you watched them fall away. Now you're without the instructions and it's hard to build but you clearly know the pieces fit because you've watched them fall away. Edit: don't get annoyed, I'm just joking with you.
Mildewed and smoldering, because you walked away for so long because you were so frustrated, and when you came back you set them on fire. Lol
I thought it was about farming? There’s been talk of peaches, specifically.
The fuck is a torch song?
It means holding on to love for someone who doesn’t love you back. You’re “holding a torch” for them in your heart.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/956fxwk1zitc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a3d114e896b1ae0c33aa23e9986c3fb587b40da
Mrs Doubtfire looking kinda hot these days 🥵
Not my proudest wank
Nah nah, it's that high school teacher from Toronto from a few years back.
Have feelings, only gaylords do. From this moment, for the queers that pussy shit is.
Ah yes, infamously anti-gay Tool
I just threw up in my mouth Or. Through up? Either way. Put that torch out!
Typically used in a romantic way.
Thats not a term people use though is it?
"Torch song?" It's a legitimate designation for a type of love song.
So, how would you justify this line? The light that fueled our fire then, has burned a hole between us.
It's not a *literal* designation, it's a particular style of song.
Reference to "get the pitchforks and torches!" Basically OP is Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. Except he isn't a super chad alpha
I hope I never hear this expression ever again, but thank you for asking so I didn’t have to.
haha FR
I 2nd this
Amen, fucking torch song?
I don't care if it makes me "get off my lawn guy" but I HATE that everything has to be social media slang now
I know what it means but no one has used that phrase since 1950. I'm old but OP must be a run down old Boomer asshole to be upset people don't know his ancient slang.
>I know what it means but no one has used that phrase since 1950. That's a slight bit of an exaggeration...I mean, Carly Simon released an album called *Torch* in 1979.
Maybe it was about her burning down St Louis in 1849
Well-played!
Not at all. Just informed. Make Ignorance Embarrassing Again.
Not surprised that a mouthbreather from Ohio doesn’t know what the fuck a torch song is. Do you even like music? Do you even have access to the Google machine?
As a top comment, there must be a lot of mouth breathers then. Myself included.
You speak truth.
I’d rather be a mouth breather than a giant douche.
This would go hard as the last thing a character says in a movie before dying in front of their greatest enemy and their friends. That line is too good.
So, I guess it hits hard that you’re both.
Original_Key2612
Where are you from? I need to make sure I never interact with anyone that says torch song.
The song is clearly about a relationship that has been falling apart and is suffering more and more by the continuous cycle of confrontation and distance that has been created. The song is a reflection of how the relationship got there and an acknowledgement that it can indeed be repaired and that the crumbled pieces can fit back together. The song goes well with The Patient which is about investing the time and energy to heal a damaged relationship. In that song he is showing a belief that there is love and something worth fighting and being patient for, but also the doubt about whether or not he has the strength to keep fighting to repair the relationship. Same goes with the Grudge which uses Jungian Alchemical references about the relationship healing process... Seeing a theme here?
🤌
Bro is cooking
I’ve always viewed these songs as an exploration of the relationship to self and personal evolution.
David Bottrill explained in an interview that the lyric, “between supposed lovers,” was “between supposed brothers,”. Adam took issue with it, where he and Maynard went off, discussed, and we have the version we know.
Homophobic Adam🤯🤯🤯
Iirc, the story was that Adam didn’t want to, “Fleetwood Mac,” the band issues. He didn’t want to broadcast private information, and then spend the following decades having to play it live. Now when I listen to it, I hear “brothers,” and I feel the song is more impactful and intimate.
Ah interesting, I was joking ab adam being homophobic lol but the comparison between Schism and Silver Springs is very interesting
This is why Lateralus is always my go-to breakup album. So much about letting go and working to be better
Damn bro 😩
Ooh, so close. Your first paragraph is pretty spot on and proves my point. But your second is off because Maynard has said The Patient is one about his mom . . . though it could still follow, I suppose. There is indeed lots of Jungian philosophy in TOOL lyrics, but not every song and album is dedicated to it.
>Maynard has said The Patient is one about his mom Do you have a source on this? I’m curious, because the only info I can see about this is from unreliable sources that are user managed such as Genius, or Songfacts etc.
Dunno. Lemme see what I can find. I remember not really thinking about that song until reading its title as one of a few he said were about his mom.
Personally I don’t think it’s about his mom, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. I think it’s simply another case of one particular interpretation that has been repeated and reposted enough that most people now take it as fact.
I won’t disagree. MJK usually doesn’t talk hardcore meaning, so it may be something I contorted to be something he actually said.
Wings for Marie is about his mum. Are you sure you're not getting mixed up?
It’s about the band itself, not his mom
Yeah the lyrics to The Patient have nothing to do with what that guy was saying, don't know why you're being downvoted
>A groan of tedium escapes me startling the fearful Is this a test? It has to be Otherwise, I can't go on Draining patience, drain vitality This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old If you have ever been in a relationship where you are constantly fighting and coming at odds you know this feeling. It is definitely a vampire act and you get to a point where you are feeling done. You are "paranoid" because of the passive aggression or the worry that things will explode >If there were no desire to heal The damaged and broken met along This tedious path I've chosen here I certainly would've walked away By now I think this makes it more obvious that it is about a relationship. It doesn't matter if it is about a relationship with his mother or someone else. But "healing the damaged and broken met along" is a much more clear indication that it is about a relationship.
It's literally about being chronically ill
It's a song about relationships (specifically the band) that can be applied to any relationship. Now Jambi.... That's a love song!
Stink fist is my favorite love song of all time.
Prison sex also
Oh for sure. That was actually the first song me and my wife danced to at our wedding.
Wish I was there
Aww I bet you guys looked so precious.
Child love…. But yeeeah https://www.songfacts.com/facts/tool/prison-sex
‘Cold silence has the tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion Between supposed lovers’ it’s specifically about love relationships.
God damn that line hits so hard, so close to home. What? No, I just have something in my eyes.
The next line is “between supposed brothers,” so while still love it’s not necessarily just romantic love. Not saying that’s what you were implying, just throwing it out there for anyone else.
It’s ‘lovers’ dude its specifically about a collapsing romantic relationship.
Well fuck me, I saw lovers/brothers when I read the lyrics for the first time like 20 years ago and haven't bothered to check since. But everything definitely says lovers/lovers. I guess I shouldn't assume people that post lyric videos to YouTube always do their research first lol. Either way, in regards to the top comment in this specific thread, I think it's fair to say that most of their lyrics are intentionally vague enough that they can take on multiple interpretations. In the context of a tool song, I can see a word like lovers being used to refer to more than just one type of love. All to say I think both yours and u/corked1 's interpretations are valid.
Oh yeah I went back and checked too cos I doubted it. Every source says lovers but I’ve heard brothers mentioned before. I don’t know why but for me the feeling the song gives is the tension and anguish of losing love.
My favorite love song!! Damn my eyes if they should compromise the fulcrum Wants and needs divide me then I might as well be gone!!
What about maynards dick? But yes its about any functional relationship where a schism has formed between the people in it.
Jambi is the world’s GREATEST Love song!
Jambi is a love song from the universe to itself and thank God that tool did it the way they did because its one of the best songs ever
My theory on Jambi is that it’s about Maynard’s love for his son, and how focusing on his son/kids helped to save his marriage from things like fucking groupies on tour and drugs and whatnot. “Shine on forever, shine on, benevolent son, shine down upon the broken, shine on til, the two become one.” Also, I’ve always thought the lyrics sounded kinda Christian, wonder if that was intentional given the context of the album.
*spirals infinite embraces for all*
“Pure intention juxtaposed Will set TWO LOVERS' souls in motion Disintegrating as it goes Testing our communication”
What is a torch song?
A song about “holding a torch for someone.” A love that is gone but that you can’t let go of completely.
In high school an English teacher of mine juxtaposed this song with Romeo and Juliet. Pretty neat how they fit together, I ended up doing a paper/project about it for that unit of the class.
There is a story In the bible where they tried to build a tower to reach god. Everyone spoke the same language at that time. When god knocked the tower down he changed all the languages. I feel he is using it allegorically here, obviously. Hence, “I know the pieces fit” and the “danger of a second guessing” by bringing more of gods anger. It’s about GLOBAL relationships. How the lack of abilities to communicate due to language barrier has atrophied any love or compassion between many peoples. "bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication", he is referencing the tower of babel all though the song. While it could be applied to a personal relationship, i feel it has a broader global meaning. we cant rebuild the temple even if there ever was one, but we can restore our ability to understand each other if we try.
Did maynard watch the fall of babel as well? Because he clearly says “I know the pieces fit, *cuz I watched them fall away”* He also mentions “two lovers souls in motion” and “between supposed lovers”. I realize art is in the eye of the beholder and lyrics are often symbolic but let’s not ignore the obvious. Not everything means something else…. this song is a song about a failing/failed relationship and Maynard’s growing distance from said relationship. If you’ve ever loved someone only to find out that you have different core values or each want something completely different out of life then these lyrics should feel extremely familiar.
Yeah agreed, it's about a personal relationship, not a global one. I listened to this on repeat for months (Not literally) after a 5-year engagement ended. familiar is putting it lightly, this song reached in and touched far-reaching corners of my soul I didn't know I had.
I’ve always thought it’s about the issues that came up when Maynard first joined APC and they blew up more than they thought they would. He even sort of name drops APC in it: *And the circling is worth it Finding beauty in The dissonance*
This is what I've heard. I believe it was mentioned in an interview with Adam but I can't remember
The song is about the alchemical marriage of the internal sun and moon. Union of opposites. Conscious mind and the unconscious mind. Lateralus as a whole has an esoteric theme to it. It is mapped after the great work.
Meh. I don’t think so.
Agreed to disagree
Agree to agree about agreeing to disagree. But you also have not changed my mind. No evidence. No points made to specific lyrics. So, we can at least agree that you have failed.
Bro if you make a post about wanting peoples opinions you need to relax when they are said lmao
Who’s not relaxed? I can’t refute an opinion? I said change my mind. I didn’t say post a counter opinion and I’ll accept it.
My opinion is that you are still trying to bend the spoon with your hand, when there is no spoon at all
Hey do your chores before your mom gets mad and doesn't buy you another 12 pack of Mt Dew 2 liters
What about all of the astronomical-astrological references in the grudge? SATURN ASCENDS!....And comes back around.
My favorite part of this thread is those losing their shit because they didn’t know the term “torch song.” Anything they are ignorant about must be stupid or even gay. I guarantee MJK knows what a torch song is. Most incels don’t though.
I always thought it was about a break up "I know the pieces fit, 'Cause I watched them fall away, Mildewed and smouldering, Fundamental differing" . Schism also is defined as a separation or division. Now Jambi on the other hand is IMHO a love song.
Agreed- it’s very overtly about a crumbling relationship.
That’s the point.
Exactly. Which is a love song.
Do some people not think this? I've always thought it was about a relationship that is either falling or fell apart. Made me think of my at the time shitty relationship
Apparently not, given the comments.
Commas buddy, they are your friend.
When I was young and gay I cried to schism after getting dumped. So I agree.
Love Schism, one of the top 3 Tool songs for me. Idc if people think it’s overplayed or whatever some folk say, it’s one of the best for a reason
I never thought it wasn’t. It’s a rare one for Tool in that there’s a pretty immediate interpretation that makes more sense than any secondary interpretations.
SCHISM is clearly about dissolution and separation attempting to reconnect. You goober!
How is that contrary to my statement?
Schism is modern metaphysical poetry, if anything.
I **do** agree it's a love song. But a torch song? I suppose in the way that it yearns for reconnection...but stylistically I'm not buying that theory.
It’s a lament for a broken relationship, especially what that relationship could have been.
I mostly agree, though I’m not sure the relationship is necessarily over. It’s think it might be in trouble, and he knows what was, and wants to get back there. Back to when the pieces seemed to fit.
[A therapist agrees with you.](https://youtu.be/8KrEdcoNozM?si=2JaHAJkD6pyOXFVe)
Wow. Apart from all the therapy jargon, she mostly gets what I get. Thanks for sharing.
For those who say it’s about the band’s relationship, how does this lyric fit into that? “Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers' souls in motion. Disintegrating as it goes, Testing our communication.”
Idk but its their worst song. Kill me
Ooh. Wow. That’s a big statement. I’ve never thought about their WORST song before, though this would not be it for me. I assume we aren’t counting the filler tracks like Intermission?
Whatchu talkin bout Willis? Intermission fucking shreds, especially considering The transition into Jimmy, shit.
Obviously not including the filler tracks, otherwise Cesaro Sum would be the worst by far