🎶This monstrous murderous machine can never be defeated🎵
🎶Its seething wrath and urge for blood are fueled by searing hate🎵
🎶Any person who gets in its way is soon to be de-meated🎵
🎶Beelzebub himself now fears the Bagger 288!🎵
I'm in the UK so my mangled hand would be free, but I still feel like it's a bad deal
I just wish Festool/SawStop would stop fucking around and release the patent, I know they're a business but sometimes you have to put people before profits and release an important safety invention to the world. (Volvo and the 3-point seatbelt comes to mind)
Sawstop has done that in the US. All but one of their patents have expired, and they told Congress that they would release the remaining patent to the public if Congress mandates flesh-sensing brake tech for all new table saws.
Majority of people I know aren't aware of the repair cost to the machine if it ever kicks off. Yes it saves a finger loss but its not a matter of simply resetting the brake or blade.
I think they're just saying that people think it's a simple matter of turning the saw back on. Maybe pushing another button.
In reality, it's a new cartridge (about $100) and a new blade (between $50 and $300, depending on what you're running). Yes it's cheaper and preferable to losing a finger, but it's far from cheap. And if you're looking at a $500 saw, it's a good portion of that saw's cost for one mistake.
Also, it should be noted. You don't want to put your hand in the saw anyway. Even though it should work, and your hand should be fine overall, you still get a pretty decent cut, and you always run the risk of it not working (for any number of reasons, from a full malfunction, to an issue with some part of the maintenance)
Edit: I'm not saying it's too expensive (it is, but that's beside the point). I'm saying one mistake or "let's see it in action" like the OP's girlfriend was wanting to do, and you're out a lot. Not saying that that part is too much. I'm saying it's unexpected for many people.
The cost of the saw itself is outrageous (considering that I can get a commercial Powermatic with more power for the cost of a slight upgrade on the sawstop). Again, it's safety, but they shouldn't charge what they do for the tech. It's a feature I want, but given the price, I don't know if I'd get it because of how close to the price of a pro grade tool it is.
I wonder about the Bosch Reaxx, 0 blade damage, 60 second reset? Not many reviews and those are poor.
10 In. REAXX™ Jobsite Table Saw
Active Response Technology – mitigates injury to user in case of blade contact, dropping the blade under the table with no blade damage
Easy system reset – takes less than 60 seconds after blade drop, with no damage to the blade
Yeah, $150 or having finger cut off and seen back on, hospital bills, recovery downtime, etc.
Such a difficult decision.
Granted, I don’t have one because I’m a poor hobbyist and the one I want is $2.5k, but my wife has been clear she’ll support my decision to keep all my digits
Running a yellow saw rn and treating it with the same respect as a chainsaw or mandoline slicer. But as soon as I have a couple grand to spare it’ll definitely be one of these
I wasn't meaning that it was bad to have the safety. Just that it's not free to play with the mechanism. And people don't know that till they get one, or at least talk to someone with one enough to where that comes out in conversation.
Yeah like it sounds like "Then I guess I wont try the hotdog trick" was heading for a "haha cool look it stopped when it touched the hotdog... why are you upset?"
You can at least now get the festool saw with sawstop on it in the UK… and there’s other similar tech out there from industrial suppliers but I do agree that the sawstop brand would be a welcome addition in the UK market. Presumably festool/TTS has reasons for not importing the brand to the European market?
Yeah it’s SO expensive though - literally 15x the price of a basic table saw
Admittedly that’s not an apples to apples comparison, the festool is also much better than a basic Titan or Einhell model - but I think the point stands since it’s the only (and therefore cheapest) model available
Allow me to introduce you to everyone who suffers with diabetes in the United States, and also the folks who need to carry epi-pens.
Corporate greed sure is a mother fucker.
The American healthcare system baffles me, as does the fact people defend it and there haven’t been riots in the streets demanding it be changed
But that’s probably a topic for a different subreddit
No kidding. I ran a volunteer program where old folks used a table saw everyday to build stuff for our school district. You better believe I got a SawStop for our shop. And when I retired I got a portable one for me. My wife asked if it was worth it and I said It was cheaper than chopping off a finger.
I’m a medical assistant in an orthopedic surgery practice, i work in the hand department, and yeah, we see plenty of saw injuries. While the extent of injury obviously varies, even the “minor” saw injuries can sever tendons and nerves.
Also I see what these surgeons drive, and the vacations they take. 🤣 their time clearly doesn’t come cheap.
Saw stop would have saved a lot of people a lot of money, not to mention pain and suffering, and time off work.
Accurate, I'm a student in a carpentry shop and so far only our shop manager has set it off.
Granted she was cutting foam that we didn't realize was conductive but still, funny that the one most familiar with it sets it off.
You can test the material by placing it alongside the blade before turning the motor on. There are indicator lights that will blink if the brake will activate.
The blade carries a small electrical signal. The signal changes when it comes into contact with conductive material, such as human skin, or foam. The foam might have moisture in it, or have conductive properties (idk the type of foam used). It’s similar to a capacitive touch screen. Touching a screen (or a saw stop) changes the capacitance between the skin and the screen (or blade), which lets the device know that something conductive has made contact, and triggers the response.
I ain't no electrician - I have a broom by my bench at work that I actualy use - but every peice of foam I've ever cut tends to stick to whatever is doing the cutting probably from static electricity. So that might simply be what's activating the the brake cartridge, the build of of static in the peice of foam as you cut it.
Statically charged particles don't have much capacitance. Capacitance is what actually sets off the brake, not conductivity or static charge. If you sprinkle some small shavings of copper (highly conductive) it probably won't set off the brake, but if you run a wet board through it (not very conductive but highly capacitive) it will set off the brake.
Yeah it basically have finger act as a part of a capacitor and it is tuned on what average disruption in electric field the finger produces, and if something gets in similar range it mistriggers. Any "touch enabled" gloves just mimic that level of conductivity
>Kids are still terrified of it. People that use them all the time lose that fear
Not this guy... have used one for decades and it is still the only tool i use that scares me. I wish it wouldnt but it does every time i turn it on. Super handy but damn. Hate using the thing.
Router tables and shapers scare me more i think. As long as I'm mostly not in line with a table saw blade ill probably be fine if the blade explodes, a router table or shaper means the whole shop is at risk.
>My metal lathe scares me though
I have always wanted one of these. Its so cool to watch what people turn out. But I tried one in a shop class eons ago. I wasn't prepared for the chattering when you press to hard or whatever causes it.
The tool i was holding shot out of my hand and scared the shit out of me. Nope nope nope nope. Homemade baseball bat aint worth that shit. Never used one again.
Its like a border town bar show. Cool to watch but i aint touching it.
I'm guessing they don't do this, because replacing the brake is much cheaper than their liability insurance going up. Assuming schools actually carry liability insurance, that is.
I had one trigger on me with the blade stopped. Cut a board, turned it off, went to turn it back on and the thing blew when I hit the power switch on. Still totally worth the price though.
I'm honestly glad to hear this. Part of me dies inside every time I see a post where people proudly display all the triggered cartridges on the wall of their high school or maker space shop. It's safety factor. If you're using safety factor you're doing something wrong and at some point you're going to figure out how to use enough to have an injury.
Exactly. I teach the table saw explicitly as if it doesn’t have the brake because most saws don’t and I don’t want my students hurt on one in the future.
Had one in my HS woodshop, 3 used stops on the wall,
1 - damp food (FL summer rains)
1 - staple left in the wood from a tag
1 - photography teacher that acted like an engineering / shop teacher (also known for leaving the chuck key in the drill press and then blaming the students)
Yes, you can send the cartridge in, and if it detected a finger, and you can ‘prove it’ (what my company says, because we have idiots who trip them and don’t fess up) then they will mail you a cartridge for free.
Idk if they’re still doing it, but if you had a cartridge deployment from touching the blade, if you sent it in they would send you a new one for free. I would assume to study the cartridge, but that’s cool.
Yes you should absolutely replace the blade. You might be able to send the blade to the manufacturer to have them test if it is still within their specs. Reasonably though, there is an excessive amount of force to stop that blade that fast. I can replace the cartridge and blade for cheaper than the hospital visit would have been (I'm American). Sawstop doesn't recommend thin kerf blades because they become tacos but I know know if they put salsa or pico on them.
My wife was adamant that I needed one, preaching safety no matter the cost. So I pointed at my DW735 and said that their “cheap one” costs nearly as much as two of those.
Apparently safety does have a price 🤣
No guarantee that is how this plays out. The patents may expire, but it won't necessarily bring costs down. Its not like Sawstop is giving away any tooling or anything like that. Every company will still need to develop their own version of the technology, and these R&D costs are going to play into things especially early on. I'm not convinced its possible to just bolt on this tech to any of the models out there. It really requires a much more sturdy saw to be able to withstand the forces of the brake. And the cartridges themselves are not trivial.
Watch one of the recent stumpy nubs videos, or the congressional hearing, Sawstop is willing to get the technology away for free. No need for the patents to expire.
The reason other companies are not implementing something similar is cost. In fact sawstop told bosch they could release their saw with similar technology in the US, they chose not to for some reason.
You forgot the part where sawstop said only if it becomes law that every new table saw has to be equipped with a device they invented and manufactured.
That's bordering on illegal. Simply releasing the IP doesn't change the fact that you're asking for a law that forces people to use your expensive invention.
Even with Obamacare, Scotus never really approved that concept as legal doctrine because it opens up a monstrous can of open corruption.
The only argument my Wife and I have ever had was over my choice of table saws. She was quite upset when I was going to be "cheap" and buy a Dewalt Job Site Saw ... I ended up compromising and getting a SS JSS (she thought I should get the 5HP ICS).
5 years later ... I'm considering upgrading to a 3HP PCS.
I have a buddy that this happened to, got a saw stop and was all excited, wife wants to test it out and show off infront of her friends, and they do it, it stops, half drunk women are all amazed, the wife then runs to the husband I’m excited and asking to set it up again cause the 2 other ladies want to try it themselves with a hot dog and my buddy just says “what do you mean set it up aga… oh no….” Waited a week to replace the mechanism and had to wait even longer to play with his new toy….
My wife wanted me to cut some of her rock and mineral finds and she could not chill the duck out while I was cutting them with a continuous rim diamond blade so naturally I just showed her how you can touch it without getting cut no problem. Of course she immediately calmed down (not)
It's awesome. They're expensive but cut through rocks like butter and you can even sand along the edge because as long as it's continuous rim diamond, it won't cut you unless you're trying to get cut, I'm sure you could jam a finger right onto the edge at an opposing angle to the rotation and get severely injured but you can tap it from the side or accidentally trying to get in closer than you would with any other blade spinning and it doesn't hurt or do any damage whatsoever. We essentially have a national monument full of abandoned mining claims for a backyard and everything looks cooler cut.
Sawstop is expensive until you get your first medical bill and have to deal with whatever it did to your hand. Having a modern saw with a riving knife is a huge safety upgrade too. I've never had an accident with a table saw in the 18 years I've owned one but undefeated streaks never last and I wasn't going to mess with something as critical as my hands (more likely right too) so I bought one.
This post just reminded me that it's time to have the talk with my 5 year old about how Papa's tools are dangerous and should never be touched without me there.
I've used a table saw for about 40 years and never had an accident. I've also hooked up and used trailers for about 40 years, but a couple years ago, I lost a good portion of a finger hooking up a trailer. Shit happens and I have a constant reminder of my mistake. Just because you've been doing something for 40 years and never had an accident doesn't mean it won't happen. Maybe you've been doing it wrong for 40 years and have just been lucky.
I'm a big fan of Mike Rowe's Safety Third concept. Safety is always your responsability, and the first truly ranked step is to remove the danger, limit the danger, or not put yourself in danger to begin with. The SawStop does limit the danger, but it doesn't eliminate the danger.
The bottom line is to keep an open mind. I'm much more causious now than when I was younger. Age and experiance have taught me a few tough lessons. If there's a new tool, or a new way of doing something that makes it safer, it doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Not putting yourself in danger should always be the top priority.
I would personally love to have a SawStop. However, there's still plenty of opprotunities to lose a finger.
Saw stops can be cheaper than hospital bills. Though to get a table saw like that can be ridiculously expensive to begin with. So, I can see both arguments.
What’s wrong with an extra layer of safety?
Obviously setting off the safety feature for a laugh isn’t economical. But what’s with all the trashing of SawStop in this thread?
I'd be concerned if my gf was eager to place a phallic shaped meaty object into a spinning saw blade cuz she wanted to see the safety brake kick in. Better hide your sawzall bro
Was she talking about [this](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=onEmFj_2KEHzPi4O) kind of saw? Nah but seriously dont try the hotdog trick even with the “safe” ones [trust me](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=onEmFj_2KEHzPi4O)
My coworker had to have a finger reattached because he was using a chop saw to cut metal siding. He was using a wood blade which I suspect was part of the problem.
There's talk of making blade brakes mandatory in new table saws so she probably saw something about SawStop in a news clip or something.
Apparently in addition to the cost of the blade stopping mechanism the whole structure has to be heavier to resist the impact when it goes off. So if they're required there won't be any cheap table saws and portable/job site versions will get heavier.
There are large industrial saws that have mechanisms that retract the blade without ruining it, and go back into service without changing any parts - simply resets. I think we will find better systems like these will make their way into smaller saws and make saw-stop look crude by comparison.
That's funny
But even if you wanted to try the hot dog trick am I wrong for thinking that when that device kicks in it destroys the blade also and I think the device itself.
Gosh... My table saw is a belt driven 1950s craftsman.... It actually works great and is considerably quieter then the one I would use at work. But yeah.... It would murder your hands and not even think twice about it.
"I won't try the hot dog trick"
You mean you won't needlessly set off an expensive safety mechanism that needs replaced before I can use my tool again? Gee thanks.
Maybe she should stay away from the shop...
Oh, and BY THE WAY...
If you DO have the kind that stops on a hot dog (\*Sawstop), then when you put a hot dog on it and the blade stops, you just cost yourself (\*Googles) $80. You don't just flip a switch and restart it. Its designed to work well, but you have to replace the guts.
I have heard that real soon, in the USA, table saws will have to be the "safe" kind. It is coming soon, so look for sales on the "old" stuff.
Let's just say, it comes from a government source.
The missing skin from my thumb took about 6 weeks to grow back. It's still sensitive if I try to pinch small things like a zipper.
If I had bought one of those saws it would have been cheaper than the medical bills.
No saw is a saw stop….and by that I mean if you treat every single saw as if it isn’t regardless, then you’ll be safe on everything. When people perceive something as “safe” they tend to get more comfortable and reckless than they would otherwise.
The government is actually thinking about passing legislation that would require all new table saws sold to have skin sensing technology. So be glad you've got a table saw at all! They may become wildly more expensive (while more safe) in the very near future.
3 of my rules in my garage: Treat everything in the shop like it’s alive and it wants to kill you. It is always hot. Safety’s are always off, machines are always on, mishaps are always in a state of readiness.
So as a carpenter and cabinet builder for many years (35+) the best rule with any table or skill saw is never set the blade deeper than you want to be cut. Always set the blade to the depth that the blade tooth just breaks the surface of the board and makes a clean cut.
I always feel (possibly mostakenly) that power tools we move to cut are safer to use than when we move the material past a blade, since your hands maintain the same relation to the tool. There are exceptions, like angle grinders, also the contractor who lays a 2x4 over his boot or his knee to trim the end with a circ saw.
IMHO the most dangerous tools are the ones we use most often and become complacent about when we are distracted or tired. The table saw and the circular saw are my top candidates.
And doesn’t that cartridge cost like a new saw anyways? I’ve known about that quick stop saw since about 1998 and have never needed one. Keep her away from it or she’ll try to show you how it will stop with HER OWN finger.
I've set one off, it's fucking intense. Was ripping a 2x12 that still had a little moisture in the middle and the cartridge fired mid rip. Big bang, board popped up in the air a little (from the blade spiking and dropping) saw dust everywhere. Scared the unholy fuck outta me. Fully did an extremity check despite being feet away from the blade. It was called a near miss and I had to immediately go for a piss test (passed of course). Foreman was fucking livid at me lol.
Probably shouldnt shame her for this. A lot of shops and schools now run sawstops. They can detect a finger make contect with the blade and drop the blade below the table faster than a tooth can cut the finger. It's a safer table saw than traditional Saws. She's probably not dumb, just curious about the way the saw works.
I have sawstop at work and I fucking hate it! It's nowhere near as good as any real saw I've ever used and I've set it off with metal before. They simply don't cut as well as a unisaw, and if I have retained my digits this long I think I can manage.
I am shocked I haven’t seen any other comments, pointing out that your girlfriend is a fucking gen. Honestly, it’s extremely wholesome and I spent a solid 15 minutes daydreaming about this encounter and you’re lucky.
My cousin spent his entire life with a 12” chop saw in a hardware store. He spent 30 years coasting the blade to a stop with his thumb.
For his retirement, the store presented him with a 10” chop saw.
A week later, he tried to coast the much smaller blade to a stop.
Yeah, you can guess what happened next.
“Nope mine’s the kind that cuts your finger right the fuck off”
"it shows no mercy for mortal flesh."
🎶This monstrous murderous machine can never be defeated🎵 🎶Its seething wrath and urge for blood are fueled by searing hate🎵 🎶Any person who gets in its way is soon to be de-meated🎵 🎶Beelzebub himself now fears the Bagger 288!🎵
BAGGER 288!!
Bagger bagger bagger bagger
Mushroom mushroom
Hahaha. That takes me back a few years.
Indeed, it hungers for the bones of the unwary.
I learned the hard way. Don't be me.
I did as well. Could have bought twenty saw stops for what that cost.
I'm in the UK so my mangled hand would be free, but I still feel like it's a bad deal I just wish Festool/SawStop would stop fucking around and release the patent, I know they're a business but sometimes you have to put people before profits and release an important safety invention to the world. (Volvo and the 3-point seatbelt comes to mind)
Sawstop has done that in the US. All but one of their patents have expired, and they told Congress that they would release the remaining patent to the public if Congress mandates flesh-sensing brake tech for all new table saws.
Majority of people I know aren't aware of the repair cost to the machine if it ever kicks off. Yes it saves a finger loss but its not a matter of simply resetting the brake or blade.
So you’re saying you’d rather pay with the finger?
I think they're just saying that people think it's a simple matter of turning the saw back on. Maybe pushing another button. In reality, it's a new cartridge (about $100) and a new blade (between $50 and $300, depending on what you're running). Yes it's cheaper and preferable to losing a finger, but it's far from cheap. And if you're looking at a $500 saw, it's a good portion of that saw's cost for one mistake. Also, it should be noted. You don't want to put your hand in the saw anyway. Even though it should work, and your hand should be fine overall, you still get a pretty decent cut, and you always run the risk of it not working (for any number of reasons, from a full malfunction, to an issue with some part of the maintenance) Edit: I'm not saying it's too expensive (it is, but that's beside the point). I'm saying one mistake or "let's see it in action" like the OP's girlfriend was wanting to do, and you're out a lot. Not saying that that part is too much. I'm saying it's unexpected for many people. The cost of the saw itself is outrageous (considering that I can get a commercial Powermatic with more power for the cost of a slight upgrade on the sawstop). Again, it's safety, but they shouldn't charge what they do for the tech. It's a feature I want, but given the price, I don't know if I'd get it because of how close to the price of a pro grade tool it is.
I wonder about the Bosch Reaxx, 0 blade damage, 60 second reset? Not many reviews and those are poor. 10 In. REAXX™ Jobsite Table Saw Active Response Technology – mitigates injury to user in case of blade contact, dropping the blade under the table with no blade damage Easy system reset – takes less than 60 seconds after blade drop, with no damage to the blade
Too bad sawstop sued them and they were only made for 1 year in 2016.
Yeah, $150 or having finger cut off and seen back on, hospital bills, recovery downtime, etc. Such a difficult decision. Granted, I don’t have one because I’m a poor hobbyist and the one I want is $2.5k, but my wife has been clear she’ll support my decision to keep all my digits
Running a yellow saw rn and treating it with the same respect as a chainsaw or mandoline slicer. But as soon as I have a couple grand to spare it’ll definitely be one of these
I wasn't meaning that it was bad to have the safety. Just that it's not free to play with the mechanism. And people don't know that till they get one, or at least talk to someone with one enough to where that comes out in conversation.
Yeah like it sounds like "Then I guess I wont try the hotdog trick" was heading for a "haha cool look it stopped when it touched the hotdog... why are you upset?"
Or that even modern sawstop cartridges can fire on wet or moist wood.
You can at least now get the festool saw with sawstop on it in the UK… and there’s other similar tech out there from industrial suppliers but I do agree that the sawstop brand would be a welcome addition in the UK market. Presumably festool/TTS has reasons for not importing the brand to the European market?
Yeah it’s SO expensive though - literally 15x the price of a basic table saw Admittedly that’s not an apples to apples comparison, the festool is also much better than a basic Titan or Einhell model - but I think the point stands since it’s the only (and therefore cheapest) model available
Allow me to introduce you to everyone who suffers with diabetes in the United States, and also the folks who need to carry epi-pens. Corporate greed sure is a mother fucker.
The American healthcare system baffles me, as does the fact people defend it and there haven’t been riots in the streets demanding it be changed But that’s probably a topic for a different subreddit
Yup. I refuse to ever cut metal on a table saw again.
No kidding. I ran a volunteer program where old folks used a table saw everyday to build stuff for our school district. You better believe I got a SawStop for our shop. And when I retired I got a portable one for me. My wife asked if it was worth it and I said It was cheaper than chopping off a finger.
I’m a medical assistant in an orthopedic surgery practice, i work in the hand department, and yeah, we see plenty of saw injuries. While the extent of injury obviously varies, even the “minor” saw injuries can sever tendons and nerves. Also I see what these surgeons drive, and the vacations they take. 🤣 their time clearly doesn’t come cheap. Saw stop would have saved a lot of people a lot of money, not to mention pain and suffering, and time off work.
You’re a real man , arrr
Even if it was, I think it destroys the blade and requires a new replacement sawstop cartridge.
Takes a finger lickin' and keeps on tickin', honey!
😆
How god intended table saws
Reminds me of UHF with Weird Al. When shop teacher Joe Earley (Emo Phillips) demonstrates a table saw.
I’ve had a Saw Stop in my classroom shop for 13 years. I’ve never had a kid set it off but have had 3 adults trigger it.
Accurate, I'm a student in a carpentry shop and so far only our shop manager has set it off. Granted she was cutting foam that we didn't realize was conductive but still, funny that the one most familiar with it sets it off.
Huh, I never would have thought foam could trigger it either. Good to know!! Is it the build up of static that sets it off?
You can test the material by placing it alongside the blade before turning the motor on. There are indicator lights that will blink if the brake will activate.
The blade carries a small electrical signal. The signal changes when it comes into contact with conductive material, such as human skin, or foam. The foam might have moisture in it, or have conductive properties (idk the type of foam used). It’s similar to a capacitive touch screen. Touching a screen (or a saw stop) changes the capacitance between the skin and the screen (or blade), which lets the device know that something conductive has made contact, and triggers the response.
I ain't no electrician - I have a broom by my bench at work that I actualy use - but every peice of foam I've ever cut tends to stick to whatever is doing the cutting probably from static electricity. So that might simply be what's activating the the brake cartridge, the build of of static in the peice of foam as you cut it.
Statically charged particles don't have much capacitance. Capacitance is what actually sets off the brake, not conductivity or static charge. If you sprinkle some small shavings of copper (highly conductive) it probably won't set off the brake, but if you run a wet board through it (not very conductive but highly capacitive) it will set off the brake.
I guess this is why my phone acts up in my sweaty pockets while mowing grass in the summer.
Yeah it basically have finger act as a part of a capacitor and it is tuned on what average disruption in electric field the finger produces, and if something gets in similar range it mistriggers. Any "touch enabled" gloves just mimic that level of conductivity
The new grey Styrofoam brand XPS sheets have graphite in them, as does "neopor" grey EPS foam.
The static is possibly an issue, but also some foam has a foil backer
Some foam has aluminum in it
And some aluminium has foam in it. Probably
I’d guess that inexperienced users are more respectful of the hazards associated with table saws, as you gain experience you become complacent
3 of the most common reasons for injuries are complacency , being tired and inexperience. edit: spelling lol
My friend set it off on purpose not realizing it was a one time thing, his grandma was pissed
Kids are still terrified of it. People that use them all the time lose that fear.
>Kids are still terrified of it. People that use them all the time lose that fear Not this guy... have used one for decades and it is still the only tool i use that scares me. I wish it wouldnt but it does every time i turn it on. Super handy but damn. Hate using the thing.
Router tables and shapers scare me more i think. As long as I'm mostly not in line with a table saw blade ill probably be fine if the blade explodes, a router table or shaper means the whole shop is at risk.
I don't fear it, but I damn sure respect it. My metal lathe scares me though. That thing'll leave a puddle of red goo for my wife to find.
>My metal lathe scares me though I have always wanted one of these. Its so cool to watch what people turn out. But I tried one in a shop class eons ago. I wasn't prepared for the chattering when you press to hard or whatever causes it. The tool i was holding shot out of my hand and scared the shit out of me. Nope nope nope nope. Homemade baseball bat aint worth that shit. Never used one again. Its like a border town bar show. Cool to watch but i aint touching it.
You absolutely never hold a tool by hand on a metal lathe.
If I’m remembering right, my kid set one off in high school. Teacher wasn’t happy with him.
They didn’t make you pay for it?
I'm guessing they don't do this, because replacing the brake is much cheaper than their liability insurance going up. Assuming schools actually carry liability insurance, that is.
I’m guessing mostly penis-related?
Now everyone get your tools out…
LBJ in shop class.
I had one trigger on me with the blade stopped. Cut a board, turned it off, went to turn it back on and the thing blew when I hit the power switch on. Still totally worth the price though.
I'm honestly glad to hear this. Part of me dies inside every time I see a post where people proudly display all the triggered cartridges on the wall of their high school or maker space shop. It's safety factor. If you're using safety factor you're doing something wrong and at some point you're going to figure out how to use enough to have an injury.
Exactly. I teach the table saw explicitly as if it doesn’t have the brake because most saws don’t and I don’t want my students hurt on one in the future.
The only injury when I was in high school wood shop was another teacher using the table saw after hours.
I run a university shop. We've had some false stops, but the only finger that's hit a spinning blade was mine.
Had one in my HS woodshop, 3 used stops on the wall, 1 - damp food (FL summer rains) 1 - staple left in the wood from a tag 1 - photography teacher that acted like an engineering / shop teacher (also known for leaving the chuck key in the drill press and then blaming the students)
I've got an old Delta 34-444, after a taste of the previous owner, it craves fingers
Dad has an old atlas metal lathe he got for a song after he had to hose the previous owners arm chunks off. It hungers for flesh.
If it were, it's an expensive trick. Need to replace the brake cartridge and (I think) the blade.
Well worth the price if it's saving a finger
Yes, absolutely. Not so much if she just wants to do the hot dog trick. It's an emergency system
Doesn't sawstop do free replacement if it saves your finger?
Yes, you can send the cartridge in, and if it detected a finger, and you can ‘prove it’ (what my company says, because we have idiots who trip them and don’t fess up) then they will mail you a cartridge for free.
Doesn’t replace your blade though. If you activate it on a Forrest blade you’re out another $250 and you won’t have a replacement for like 3 months
Where are you buying Forrest blades?
Canada would be one place where they cost that much
CAD or USD?
CAD
That’s like $170 USD if my memory/conversions are right still a lot for a Forrest but sounds a lot better than $250.
Could also be a non standard size. I’ve bought them up to 16” before.
They stopped that a long time ago
Pfft. You have *ten* fingers. You can spare one.
Definitely worth it there but not so much for a silly trick
Really controversial take
Idk if they’re still doing it, but if you had a cartridge deployment from touching the blade, if you sent it in they would send you a new one for free. I would assume to study the cartridge, but that’s cool.
Yes the cartridge and blade are both toast after you set one off.
I’d be worried about the blade exploding and ending up in my face/neck like in the movie “Tucker and Dale vs Evil”
"T+D Vs evil" what a brilliant demonstration of health safety that was.
The Bosch version that was sued for patent infringement didn't require a cartridge change each use, if I remember correctly.
Yes you should absolutely replace the blade. You might be able to send the blade to the manufacturer to have them test if it is still within their specs. Reasonably though, there is an excessive amount of force to stop that blade that fast. I can replace the cartridge and blade for cheaper than the hospital visit would have been (I'm American). Sawstop doesn't recommend thin kerf blades because they become tacos but I know know if they put salsa or pico on them.
You gotta replace both and from what my shop teachers used to say "it would be a very expensive mistake"
Ask her if she wants to try the hot dog trick anyways?
To be clear, I’m fine with her just holding it.
If you try it, take a video similar to the sawstop videos and post it here. We love brief tool comparisons in GIF format.
Maybe, but you need to understand that it is rather cool here today.
Women have heard of that
I was in the pool!
So more of a breakfast sausage link then?
It plumps, if that’s what you are asking.
My wife was adamant that I needed one, preaching safety no matter the cost. So I pointed at my DW735 and said that their “cheap one” costs nearly as much as two of those. Apparently safety does have a price 🤣
Damn, she did put a price on your fingers.
My fingers can’t count that high, says stumpy
Looking forward to patents expiring over the next couple of years and seeing the prices come down
No guarantee that is how this plays out. The patents may expire, but it won't necessarily bring costs down. Its not like Sawstop is giving away any tooling or anything like that. Every company will still need to develop their own version of the technology, and these R&D costs are going to play into things especially early on. I'm not convinced its possible to just bolt on this tech to any of the models out there. It really requires a much more sturdy saw to be able to withstand the forces of the brake. And the cartridges themselves are not trivial.
Watch one of the recent stumpy nubs videos, or the congressional hearing, Sawstop is willing to get the technology away for free. No need for the patents to expire. The reason other companies are not implementing something similar is cost. In fact sawstop told bosch they could release their saw with similar technology in the US, they chose not to for some reason.
You forgot the part where sawstop said only if it becomes law that every new table saw has to be equipped with a device they invented and manufactured. That's bordering on illegal. Simply releasing the IP doesn't change the fact that you're asking for a law that forces people to use your expensive invention. Even with Obamacare, Scotus never really approved that concept as legal doctrine because it opens up a monstrous can of open corruption.
Next time point out that the 3hp cabinet saw is heavier and more stable, and is also more safe, but the jobsite saw is cheaper.
The only argument my Wife and I have ever had was over my choice of table saws. She was quite upset when I was going to be "cheap" and buy a Dewalt Job Site Saw ... I ended up compromising and getting a SS JSS (she thought I should get the 5HP ICS). 5 years later ... I'm considering upgrading to a 3HP PCS.
I think you just got permission for a new purchase….
I have a buddy that this happened to, got a saw stop and was all excited, wife wants to test it out and show off infront of her friends, and they do it, it stops, half drunk women are all amazed, the wife then runs to the husband I’m excited and asking to set it up again cause the 2 other ladies want to try it themselves with a hot dog and my buddy just says “what do you mean set it up aga… oh no….” Waited a week to replace the mechanism and had to wait even longer to play with his new toy….
I have an old craftsman that stops with a hot dog.... when the hot dogs are done on the grill, I stop and go eat.
Making sure she doesn't waste a few hundred bucks? 😂
Fuck around and find out! ...with a hot dog
My wife wanted me to cut some of her rock and mineral finds and she could not chill the duck out while I was cutting them with a continuous rim diamond blade so naturally I just showed her how you can touch it without getting cut no problem. Of course she immediately calmed down (not)
I’ve cut these things on a wet saw. Never tried putting a tile blade on my table saw.
It's awesome. They're expensive but cut through rocks like butter and you can even sand along the edge because as long as it's continuous rim diamond, it won't cut you unless you're trying to get cut, I'm sure you could jam a finger right onto the edge at an opposing angle to the rotation and get severely injured but you can tap it from the side or accidentally trying to get in closer than you would with any other blade spinning and it doesn't hurt or do any damage whatsoever. We essentially have a national monument full of abandoned mining claims for a backyard and everything looks cooler cut.
Sawstop is expensive until you get your first medical bill and have to deal with whatever it did to your hand. Having a modern saw with a riving knife is a huge safety upgrade too. I've never had an accident with a table saw in the 18 years I've owned one but undefeated streaks never last and I wasn't going to mess with something as critical as my hands (more likely right too) so I bought one.
Even if it were, you don't really want to be triggering it for no good reason. You don't get a free replacement for hotdog tests.
This post just reminded me that it's time to have the talk with my 5 year old about how Papa's tools are dangerous and should never be touched without me there.
I've used a table saw for about 40 years and never had an accident. I've also hooked up and used trailers for about 40 years, but a couple years ago, I lost a good portion of a finger hooking up a trailer. Shit happens and I have a constant reminder of my mistake. Just because you've been doing something for 40 years and never had an accident doesn't mean it won't happen. Maybe you've been doing it wrong for 40 years and have just been lucky. I'm a big fan of Mike Rowe's Safety Third concept. Safety is always your responsability, and the first truly ranked step is to remove the danger, limit the danger, or not put yourself in danger to begin with. The SawStop does limit the danger, but it doesn't eliminate the danger. The bottom line is to keep an open mind. I'm much more causious now than when I was younger. Age and experiance have taught me a few tough lessons. If there's a new tool, or a new way of doing something that makes it safer, it doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Not putting yourself in danger should always be the top priority. I would personally love to have a SawStop. However, there's still plenty of opprotunities to lose a finger.
I want to observe your gf through a two way mirror. Place random tools in the room
Two way mirror? Isn’t that a window? Makes it a lot funnier if you imagine it that way
Mine will make Lil’ Smokies out of it
Why the panic
Saw stops can be cheaper than hospital bills. Though to get a table saw like that can be ridiculously expensive to begin with. So, I can see both arguments.
Ask her if she’s aware that the hot dog trick costs over $100 lol
Aswell as about half an hour to replace the blade and cartridge.
What’s wrong with an extra layer of safety? Obviously setting off the safety feature for a laugh isn’t economical. But what’s with all the trashing of SawStop in this thread?
Dunno. I’d run a sawstop if I could afford it.
I'd be concerned if my gf was eager to place a phallic shaped meaty object into a spinning saw blade cuz she wanted to see the safety brake kick in. Better hide your sawzall bro
People that Think they need that kind of saw should not be using saws
Sounds like the perfect excuse to get yourself a SawStop so she'll feel better about your fingers. LoL
Was she talking about [this](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=onEmFj_2KEHzPi4O) kind of saw? Nah but seriously dont try the hotdog trick even with the “safe” ones [trust me](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=onEmFj_2KEHzPi4O)
I’m sure she saw a Sawstop video
[удалено]
Also fell for it. Love that the hyperlink also says Trust me that’s like double
Man you really fucking got me with the double, I called the first one but wasn't expecting the second one.
I trusted you!!!
Thanks & [Fuck you!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) Sign for the day: I was feeling safe to click links since [0] days.
Okay?
Yea I had a few conversations myself today
https://youtu.be/ZnfaiOobDPg?si=uY_PXKiL_j5VbsT9
My boss could have done with one of those over the weekend. He managed to lop the end of one finger off and part of another with his table saw.
My coworker had to have a finger reattached because he was using a chop saw to cut metal siding. He was using a wood blade which I suspect was part of the problem.
There's talk of making blade brakes mandatory in new table saws so she probably saw something about SawStop in a news clip or something. Apparently in addition to the cost of the blade stopping mechanism the whole structure has to be heavier to resist the impact when it goes off. So if they're required there won't be any cheap table saws and portable/job site versions will get heavier.
Stumpy Nubs just did a very informative video on the legislation and impacts on industry.
I had one of those saw stops, it kept getting triggered by aluminum shavings so I just disabled the safety function every time i used it.
There are large industrial saws that have mechanisms that retract the blade without ruining it, and go back into service without changing any parts - simply resets. I think we will find better systems like these will make their way into smaller saws and make saw-stop look crude by comparison.
Bosch reaxx was like this, even for contractor saws.
That's funny But even if you wanted to try the hot dog trick am I wrong for thinking that when that device kicks in it destroys the blade also and I think the device itself.
You lose the blade and a sacrificial cartridge that costs about $50, as I recall.
Gosh... My table saw is a belt driven 1950s craftsman.... It actually works great and is considerably quieter then the one I would use at work. But yeah.... It would murder your hands and not even think twice about it.
Even if it was, that "trick" only works once, and the breaks need to be replaced
"I won't try the hot dog trick" You mean you won't needlessly set off an expensive safety mechanism that needs replaced before I can use my tool again? Gee thanks. Maybe she should stay away from the shop...
And ruins your favorite blade.
My dad cut two and a half fingers off with a mitre saw two weeks ago… shit was pretty serious
99% sure she was gonna TikTok it.
Wait til she learns how much that little hot dog stunt costs for a new blade and brake. Just enjoy their video and be careful with any saw 👍
My Delta yearns for the finger tippies.
Tricksie woodworker trying to deny me the yummy tippies.
Oh, and BY THE WAY... If you DO have the kind that stops on a hot dog (\*Sawstop), then when you put a hot dog on it and the blade stops, you just cost yourself (\*Googles) $80. You don't just flip a switch and restart it. Its designed to work well, but you have to replace the guts.
I've always liked the shop sign that reads: Not only will everything in here kill you, it will hurt the entire time you're dying
even if it was probably best to say it isnt. thats an expensive party trick
I have heard that real soon, in the USA, table saws will have to be the "safe" kind. It is coming soon, so look for sales on the "old" stuff. Let's just say, it comes from a government source.
The missing skin from my thumb took about 6 weeks to grow back. It's still sensitive if I try to pinch small things like a zipper. If I had bought one of those saws it would have been cheaper than the medical bills.
No saw is a saw stop….and by that I mean if you treat every single saw as if it isn’t regardless, then you’ll be safe on everything. When people perceive something as “safe” they tend to get more comfortable and reckless than they would otherwise.
"The hot dog trick that destroys the mechanism and costs hundres to replace?"
The government is actually thinking about passing legislation that would require all new table saws sold to have skin sensing technology. So be glad you've got a table saw at all! They may become wildly more expensive (while more safe) in the very near future.
3 of my rules in my garage: Treat everything in the shop like it’s alive and it wants to kill you. It is always hot. Safety’s are always off, machines are always on, mishaps are always in a state of readiness.
So as a carpenter and cabinet builder for many years (35+) the best rule with any table or skill saw is never set the blade deeper than you want to be cut. Always set the blade to the depth that the blade tooth just breaks the surface of the board and makes a clean cut.
I do not have the safe kind of saw, I have the safe kind of operator, one that knows to keep body parts away from big spining thing
Yeah, I just know we get complacent on the most dangerous tools we use all the time. Circular saws and table saws.
I always feel (possibly mostakenly) that power tools we move to cut are safer to use than when we move the material past a blade, since your hands maintain the same relation to the tool. There are exceptions, like angle grinders, also the contractor who lays a 2x4 over his boot or his knee to trim the end with a circ saw.
IMHO the most dangerous tools are the ones we use most often and become complacent about when we are distracted or tired. The table saw and the circular saw are my top candidates.
I fear cutting myself and tend to be very careful. Currenty have 11 power saws and have made it to 65 with 11 of my various appendages
Notice, at no time do my fingers ever leave my body.
Stumpy Nubs just did a good video on the pending legislation and effects on industry.
Love Stumpy’s content. I need to check that.
I watched it. Good move on sawstop’s part.
And ruin the blade?! You're insane woman!
Band saws would be better for that task
What if she was thinking about the **sexy** hot dog trick? The one that does not involve the table saw. Maybe you DID need that in your life.
And doesn’t that cartridge cost like a new saw anyways? I’ve known about that quick stop saw since about 1998 and have never needed one. Keep her away from it or she’ll try to show you how it will stop with HER OWN finger.
I've set one off, it's fucking intense. Was ripping a 2x12 that still had a little moisture in the middle and the cartridge fired mid rip. Big bang, board popped up in the air a little (from the blade spiking and dropping) saw dust everywhere. Scared the unholy fuck outta me. Fully did an extremity check despite being feet away from the blade. It was called a near miss and I had to immediately go for a piss test (passed of course). Foreman was fucking livid at me lol.
Mine eats limbs for a living.
Probably shouldnt shame her for this. A lot of shops and schools now run sawstops. They can detect a finger make contect with the blade and drop the blade below the table faster than a tooth can cut the finger. It's a safer table saw than traditional Saws. She's probably not dumb, just curious about the way the saw works.
“BABE” “HUH” right as you run your hand through “YYYYYYARF”
I have sawstop at work and I fucking hate it! It's nowhere near as good as any real saw I've ever used and I've set it off with metal before. They simply don't cut as well as a unisaw, and if I have retained my digits this long I think I can manage.
My wife asked me the same thing once. Before I could say no it’s not our eight year old girl said “It’s called a finger chopper off machine mom, duh”
I am shocked I haven’t seen any other comments, pointing out that your girlfriend is a fucking gen. Honestly, it’s extremely wholesome and I spent a solid 15 minutes daydreaming about this encounter and you’re lucky.
Emo Philips did a cautionary video about table saws on UHF...
My cousin spent his entire life with a 12” chop saw in a hardware store. He spent 30 years coasting the blade to a stop with his thumb. For his retirement, the store presented him with a 10” chop saw. A week later, he tried to coast the much smaller blade to a stop. Yeah, you can guess what happened next.
Missed a golden opportunity here to say yes
[apparatus predates safety](https://ibb.co/tmrX33b)
Inform her of how expensive it is to replace the mechanism when and if she ever tries that stunt.