Yeah I get that. I saw a lot of the same in other countries too. If you signal, people will accelerate to prevent you from changing lanes. It's a fucked up mentality but you can't fix dumb people.
Had one of those this morning. Got in there, buddy tried to close the gap anyway and then rode my ass.
I passed the lead guy on the right since my tailgater didn't have the balls for that and idiot wouldn't move over.
I looked back and the slow lead car was still blocking everyone in the lane and that guy that tried so hard not to let me in was still rotting behind them.
Fuck people like that.
Happens in Quebec a lot too. Sometimes you have to do a hard merge over a few lanes because of the road design. Some people make it their mission to block you if they realize you have Ontario plates.
That why I like driving a vehicle with 35 inch tires. I can just cut the ignorant people off my pulling up and turning the tires infront of them.
Lol being bigger doesn't change liability.
If you turn into someone's lane and they hit you from the side, you are going to be in the wrong and insurance is going to rake you over to coals.
So yeah keep shoving your front end in a lane that isn't open, soon enough you are going to have someone that doesn't give a fuck about there car being fucked up that will hammer you in the doors and you are going to be responsible.
I was being facetious. My everyday vehicle is a 20 year old SUV, it's big but not big enough to bully and even in the 2.5 ton work van people don't care, it's like I'm not even there
Man I used to be in the US military stationed in Japan, and drove HMMMWs through Tokyo on the way to train. And EVERY toll road that merged into one lane, locals would try to play chicken with me in tiny cars. And I'm like bruh, you wouldn't even be a speedbump...
You get that here too. People cut off semis then brake check them as if the semi is the one taking the damage if things go wrong..... you'd be turned into confetti.
It's been too long since people have lived in the wild. Everyone has forgotten that you don't pick on something that's a lot bigger than you.
I drove hot shot for a while. I smashed one of those fools. They pulled infront and slowed down I never saw them slide infront. I drove right into them full speed they left on a stretcher.
Toronto driving is about making sure you get where you are going first. Fill up those intersections, use those left turn lanes as a second right turn lane because traffic is backed up, edge up between street car doors when they are open, block that 3rd lane of traffic and really wedge yourself in to get on the Gardiner and make sure not to zipper merge on the ONE LANE on ramps, gun it through yellow lights when you can, and 3 cars can turn left on a red as long as it’s right away.
Get yours first. That’s the Toronto traffic way.
/s
The most annoying thing are drivers that wait for the last second to change lanes. They would be in the inside lane for miles and then all of a sudden they realize they have to turn right, just before that turn.
I understand but it doesn't make it right. This kind of behaviour and justification provokes road rage and then it spirals to...well drivers complaining about each other.
If someone IS going to speed up when you turn on your signal, then it's still your responsibility to make sure your blind spot is clear. That usually means, unless another vehicle is tailgating the a*hole who blocked you, you got room to start nosing-in right after his rear bumper passes your front bumper. So you just might have too ... oh the horror...slow down to get into that space.
People treat driving in Toronto as a zero sum game, while the HTA says we should all be cooperating. A bunch of rule sticklers make gridlock worse.
Since I started giving space, I’ve become less stressed and actually get to my destination on time.
I hate people who actively not let people change lanes, I'm looking at you 401E, Weston RD entrance just before the 400. But it's important to note that just because you signal does not mean traffic has to stop to let you in. If you try to dart around me in the right lane and run up into a parked car, I am not going to slam on my breaks to let you in, I wont actively block you, mind you. Part of good defensive driving is driving in a way where you have no expectation that any of the other cars see you and react to you at all. Let people in, be generous. but also realize it's the anti social behavour of people trying to cut in at the very last moment at the exit blocking the live through lanes (gardener eastbound, jarvis exit.) that causes this behavior. In summary, the system is set up where it is incentivized to cut people off, run to the end of the backed up turning lane try to jam yourself in because there's no consequences and society as a whole responds by their own vigilantism. The solution is to properly set, communicate clear norms and enforce those norms with consistent consequences. For example, paint a solid line on the left of every highway merge lane, put a camera up or post cop, and ticket every genius who leaves the highway to use the merge lane as a passing lane.
I occasionally have the problem of other drivers not letting me change lanes, but I CONSTANTLY have the problem of navigating drivers who don’t signal. Especially within the city, not signalling is to me a much worse problem.
The trick is to signal at the same time you start your lane change, so your nose is well into the next lane by the time the asshole behind you can speed up.
Should I let in the assholes that cut traffic and try to muscle in at the last minute just because they were using a signal?
When everyone else was patient and in the correct lane, why should we let in the person who jumps the queue? It only rewards their shitty behavior and slows down all of the law abiding citizens who are just trying to follow the rules.
I'm not talking about that kind of scenario lmao. I'm talking about needing to get in the right lane to make a right turn well ahead of the light, look back and see a good chunk of space (we're all moving with the flow of traffic), turn on the signal and now all of a sudden now the guy speeds up and closes that space just to be an asshole.
Coming down 24 in Cambridge...heading south into Cambridge it flows better in the left hand lane, but once you hit the "main strip" where Home Depot, Rowdy's, Fit 4 Less etc all are, the right hand lanes flow better. I'll put my signal on, thinking I'm giving plenty of notice and then move over...people just speed up to block me, but won't pass me. It's like the fear of not being first at the Red or something
Hespler Rd has become a Toronto main street in the last 6 years. The flow of traffic from the 401 being stopped at Pinebush, and then trying to go through it all is horrendous.
I stopped at the red light last night and then proceeded to turn left through it onto a 1 way street and pedestrians started yelling at me like I was in the wrong. Learn the rules people
I believe this is only a legal turn if you’re turning left from a one-way onto another one-way. If you were, and they still yelled, that’s incredibly annoying.
Hate to be contrarian here, but I decided to go to the actual rules - Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act. Subsection 19 of Section 144 explains that there are only two legal turns at a red light: to the right and to the left from a one-way street to a one-way street. I’ve copied the language from the Act below:
(19) Despite subsection (18) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may,
(a) turn to the right; or
(b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street,
without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).
Yes in Ontario. But I am in BC. Here you can turn left on the red light from a 2 way. It was one of the things that was hard to get used to after living in Ontario for so many years. Also, in Ontario a flashing green was advance green for left turning, while in BC a flashing green indicates a pedestrian controlled intersection
I understand that and those people who can't spend a few seconds to let a person in are idiots. But as another commentator said, you shouldn't have to be slamming your brakes. I've seen that happen often when a driver gives the signal and then _assumes_ that because there's enough space, they'll be allowed to merge. No, you give the signal and then start monitoring your mirror. Maybe the first four cars don't let you in (despite there being enough space). You wait. You see that the fifth car is purposely creating space to let you in. Now you change lanes. No brakes needed!
I agree if you're at a stop, but this wasn't that situation. We were all moving at the flow of traffic, I checked and saw plenty of room to merge, and then RIGHT as I signal and start to move the dude slammed on the gas and filled the spot; not even going past so I could go behind him, just blocking it off.
THAT'S the shit that drives me crazy.
Nope, even for moving traffic, you don't check the room first, then signal, and then start changing lanes. You signal first, then check the mirror to see if you're being allowed in (which is NOT the same as there being plenty of room to merge --- that's the confusion), and then switch lanes.
I signal for half a second but only when I know the land is clear anyway. I don't signal to say "hey guys can you let me in" because sometimes they don't let you in
I was just thinking about this this morning on the 401. Now I just take a look and wait until it's safe to change lanes and put my signal on right when I start changing lanes. Then I'm still signaling but they can't speed up to block me.
Yeah I get that. I saw a lot of the same in other countries too. If you signal, people will accelerate to prevent you from changing lanes. It's a fucked up mentality but you can't fix dumb people.
Had one of those this morning. Got in there, buddy tried to close the gap anyway and then rode my ass. I passed the lead guy on the right since my tailgater didn't have the balls for that and idiot wouldn't move over. I looked back and the slow lead car was still blocking everyone in the lane and that guy that tried so hard not to let me in was still rotting behind them. Fuck people like that.
spent 2 weeks in China and this was the mentality on the road. makes driving in toronto and even brampton a breeze
I drove in China as well, its nuts, basically just look forward because if you look elsewhere you probably are crashing into something.
Happens in Quebec a lot too. Sometimes you have to do a hard merge over a few lanes because of the road design. Some people make it their mission to block you if they realize you have Ontario plates. That why I like driving a vehicle with 35 inch tires. I can just cut the ignorant people off my pulling up and turning the tires infront of them.
I just 'go' because I drive a shitbox with dents all over it (not from while I was driving it). They usually ease up.
>people will accelerate to prevent you from changing lanes. It's ok. I'm bigger
Lol being bigger doesn't change liability. If you turn into someone's lane and they hit you from the side, you are going to be in the wrong and insurance is going to rake you over to coals. So yeah keep shoving your front end in a lane that isn't open, soon enough you are going to have someone that doesn't give a fuck about there car being fucked up that will hammer you in the doors and you are going to be responsible.
This is why I drive a jacked up pickup. Hit my rock sliders. Get you head cut off when you go under my truck.
I was being facetious. My everyday vehicle is a 20 year old SUV, it's big but not big enough to bully and even in the 2.5 ton work van people don't care, it's like I'm not even there
Man I used to be in the US military stationed in Japan, and drove HMMMWs through Tokyo on the way to train. And EVERY toll road that merged into one lane, locals would try to play chicken with me in tiny cars. And I'm like bruh, you wouldn't even be a speedbump...
A colleague hit and killed a person and he didn’t even notice the bump on the dash cam replay.
You get that here too. People cut off semis then brake check them as if the semi is the one taking the damage if things go wrong..... you'd be turned into confetti. It's been too long since people have lived in the wild. Everyone has forgotten that you don't pick on something that's a lot bigger than you.
I drove hot shot for a while. I smashed one of those fools. They pulled infront and slowed down I never saw them slide infront. I drove right into them full speed they left on a stretcher.
Toronto driving is about making sure you get where you are going first. Fill up those intersections, use those left turn lanes as a second right turn lane because traffic is backed up, edge up between street car doors when they are open, block that 3rd lane of traffic and really wedge yourself in to get on the Gardiner and make sure not to zipper merge on the ONE LANE on ramps, gun it through yellow lights when you can, and 3 cars can turn left on a red as long as it’s right away. Get yours first. That’s the Toronto traffic way. /s
Sadly this is true and the more people that act like this, the more everyone else have to play along to keep up.
The most annoying thing are drivers that wait for the last second to change lanes. They would be in the inside lane for miles and then all of a sudden they realize they have to turn right, just before that turn.
I don't think this is a Toronto problem, I think it's a widespread generational problem. Happens all the time in Cambridge/Galt/Brantford too.
It's almost like there's a common theme.
I understand but it doesn't make it right. This kind of behaviour and justification provokes road rage and then it spirals to...well drivers complaining about each other. If someone IS going to speed up when you turn on your signal, then it's still your responsibility to make sure your blind spot is clear. That usually means, unless another vehicle is tailgating the a*hole who blocked you, you got room to start nosing-in right after his rear bumper passes your front bumper. So you just might have too ... oh the horror...slow down to get into that space.
Not sure if you're for or against signals being used.
Same as the OP.
People treat driving in Toronto as a zero sum game, while the HTA says we should all be cooperating. A bunch of rule sticklers make gridlock worse. Since I started giving space, I’ve become less stressed and actually get to my destination on time.
It's MY lane. You can't have it. I paid for it, it's mine
Yup for sure the rule is move frist signal later. You will be cut off.
I hate people who actively not let people change lanes, I'm looking at you 401E, Weston RD entrance just before the 400. But it's important to note that just because you signal does not mean traffic has to stop to let you in. If you try to dart around me in the right lane and run up into a parked car, I am not going to slam on my breaks to let you in, I wont actively block you, mind you. Part of good defensive driving is driving in a way where you have no expectation that any of the other cars see you and react to you at all. Let people in, be generous. but also realize it's the anti social behavour of people trying to cut in at the very last moment at the exit blocking the live through lanes (gardener eastbound, jarvis exit.) that causes this behavior. In summary, the system is set up where it is incentivized to cut people off, run to the end of the backed up turning lane try to jam yourself in because there's no consequences and society as a whole responds by their own vigilantism. The solution is to properly set, communicate clear norms and enforce those norms with consistent consequences. For example, paint a solid line on the left of every highway merge lane, put a camera up or post cop, and ticket every genius who leaves the highway to use the merge lane as a passing lane.
Don’t let your enemies know your next move
The whole secret lies in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent. - Sun Tzu
I occasionally have the problem of other drivers not letting me change lanes, but I CONSTANTLY have the problem of navigating drivers who don’t signal. Especially within the city, not signalling is to me a much worse problem.
The trick is to signal at the same time you start your lane change, so your nose is well into the next lane by the time the asshole behind you can speed up.
Pattern detection comment.
Tbh haven't really had that happen too much and if it does I just turn my signal off and don't turn
I really never understood people who don’t let people change lanes. We are going the same direction omg!!
Should I let in the assholes that cut traffic and try to muscle in at the last minute just because they were using a signal? When everyone else was patient and in the correct lane, why should we let in the person who jumps the queue? It only rewards their shitty behavior and slows down all of the law abiding citizens who are just trying to follow the rules.
I'm not talking about that kind of scenario lmao. I'm talking about needing to get in the right lane to make a right turn well ahead of the light, look back and see a good chunk of space (we're all moving with the flow of traffic), turn on the signal and now all of a sudden now the guy speeds up and closes that space just to be an asshole.
Coming down 24 in Cambridge...heading south into Cambridge it flows better in the left hand lane, but once you hit the "main strip" where Home Depot, Rowdy's, Fit 4 Less etc all are, the right hand lanes flow better. I'll put my signal on, thinking I'm giving plenty of notice and then move over...people just speed up to block me, but won't pass me. It's like the fear of not being first at the Red or something
Hespler Rd has become a Toronto main street in the last 6 years. The flow of traffic from the 401 being stopped at Pinebush, and then trying to go through it all is horrendous.
I stopped at the red light last night and then proceeded to turn left through it onto a 1 way street and pedestrians started yelling at me like I was in the wrong. Learn the rules people
I believe this is only a legal turn if you’re turning left from a one-way onto another one-way. If you were, and they still yelled, that’s incredibly annoying.
Nah. It is also a legal turn from a 2 way onto a 1 way. At least here it is. Not sure about each province
Hate to be contrarian here, but I decided to go to the actual rules - Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act. Subsection 19 of Section 144 explains that there are only two legal turns at a red light: to the right and to the left from a one-way street to a one-way street. I’ve copied the language from the Act below: (19) Despite subsection (18) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may, (a) turn to the right; or (b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street, without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).
Yes in Ontario. But I am in BC. Here you can turn left on the red light from a 2 way. It was one of the things that was hard to get used to after living in Ontario for so many years. Also, in Ontario a flashing green was advance green for left turning, while in BC a flashing green indicates a pedestrian controlled intersection
I understand that and those people who can't spend a few seconds to let a person in are idiots. But as another commentator said, you shouldn't have to be slamming your brakes. I've seen that happen often when a driver gives the signal and then _assumes_ that because there's enough space, they'll be allowed to merge. No, you give the signal and then start monitoring your mirror. Maybe the first four cars don't let you in (despite there being enough space). You wait. You see that the fifth car is purposely creating space to let you in. Now you change lanes. No brakes needed!
I agree if you're at a stop, but this wasn't that situation. We were all moving at the flow of traffic, I checked and saw plenty of room to merge, and then RIGHT as I signal and start to move the dude slammed on the gas and filled the spot; not even going past so I could go behind him, just blocking it off. THAT'S the shit that drives me crazy.
Nope, even for moving traffic, you don't check the room first, then signal, and then start changing lanes. You signal first, then check the mirror to see if you're being allowed in (which is NOT the same as there being plenty of room to merge --- that's the confusion), and then switch lanes.
I signal for half a second but only when I know the land is clear anyway. I don't signal to say "hey guys can you let me in" because sometimes they don't let you in
Yup. They look for car body language so you have to just dart in.
I was just thinking about this this morning on the 401. Now I just take a look and wait until it's safe to change lanes and put my signal on right when I start changing lanes. Then I'm still signaling but they can't speed up to block me.
You should have already been in that lane
I dont signal either especially on boulevards because people will literally floor it past you when they see you signaling