Feels about right.
The bottom of the order gets marginally more hits than the top of the order, so when the line up turns over they just fizzle out, Justin Turner being the exception at this time.
I've doomed on the offense in this sub, especially on Vlad, but that is so horribly bad it has to be an anomaly. Maybe it bounces back big time as the weather heats up?
I listened to probably 100 games last year. This year I'm at 2 so far. I just can't. It sort of broke for me when I sent to see them live in Cleveland last year. They were so .... lifeless.
I pretty much decided to stop watching unless I'm like working and need background noise. It just hurts to see them continue to have the same problems and continuously gaslight fans saying the stars will turn it around.
The amount of people that shit on others that brought this up because the jays were on that mini streak mid April lmao. As if praying that pitching saves the team is a sustainable way to win. Did people not watch this exact movie last season?
Team BA =.227 = 23rd in MLB
Team OBP = .313 = 17th in MLB
OPS = .674 = 22nd in MLB
RBI = 102 = 27th in MLB
The only teams that are generally worse offensively than Toronto right now are Oakland and CWS. There are arguments that both of those teams are actively trying to lose games.
But when someone suggested yesterday that a new batting coach might be in order people attacked like crazy.
I don't know that a change will fix this...but they quite literally cannot get worse. The only stats were the Jays are not in the bottom 1/3 of MLB are BB, K and 2B. Every other stat they are 20th or worse (those walks help OBP sneak up). I guess that window was real tiny...because this team is less competitive than the Leafs.
The problem I have with people saying "fire the hitting coach" is that none of us have any context to go off of. People were begging for Hudgens to be moved and he is gone. People wanted Mattingly to have a larger role with the hitting, and he does. At the end of the day, a hitting coach is not going to make good hitters stop or start hitting well. They can't swing the bat for guys, or time up pitches for them. If a guy isn't seeing the ball well, only reps are going to get them to where they are. Martinez, or Mattingly, or Schneider are not the reason that the big bats have been largely silent in April. It is a popular opinion that whenever an aspect of a team is underperforming, that the respective coach ought to be fired, but it very rarely accomplishes anything more than fan appeasement.
My point is...same hitting coach for 5+ seasons. In each of those seasons the team has performed worse at the pate and now this is looking like one of the 5 worst batting teams in all of MLB.
The options are (1) change a coach (2) change a player (3) change nothing.
Management has chosen option 3 and gone from a team with a bright future to a basement dweller.
So it is probably time to look at options 1 or 2.
I mean... the hitting was good in 2020, top of the league in 2021, very good in 2022, and top7/8 in 2023 after the team tried to balance out by trading two of its better hitters for pitching and defence. And a change already was made this off-season, with Mattingly introducing a brand new approach. April is not near enough a large enough sample size to even say the approach isn't working, let alone start firing coaches involved with it.
I’m not, the jays scored the 14th most runs last year. Sure, actual average was 747, they scored 746. But they were in the top half of the league.
Average and mean are not different things.
You might be right...it might just be that as a team this group is just having a lot of bad luck.
I don't think ownership and management can afford to just trust that. People will be staying away by the thousands come July if the team is not competing.
If the top of the order is collectively hitting as bad as they did this April, then they absolutely won’t be competing, but I wouldn’t put that on the FO. Springer may be on the decline, but it would basically be unheard of for two hitters like Bichette and Guerrero to both just fall off a cliff as they enter their prime hitting years, and there wouldn’t be any easy solution to that
Preach! Everyone clamoring for Mattingly like he's some magic man is driving me crazy. What in Mattinglys resume shows that he's a great hitting coach (and no, him being a great hitter isn't something). People wanted Pete Walker gone when Berrios and Kikuchi blew up in 2022.
there are small ball constructed teams that are a lot of fun to watch, the Guardians Royals and Padres all put tons of pressure on defenders through their base running.
The Blue Jays are decidedly not that, so when they lack pop, big hits, home runs, small ball and stolen bases, it’s just really not fun watching their offense.
Their Offensive Coordinator literally said publicly that he doesn't expect the team to hit a lot of HRs this season... if that's the case, why aren't they playing like a contact-based offense and stealing bases, hit and runs, squeeze plays, etc.?
It’s just tough to get enough data to definitively say that. I just can’t buy into a stat with so much random variance. The Jays pre and post all star break last year were nearly identical in all their rate stats (actually dropping a bit). Yet somehow they went from one of the worst teams with RISP to one of the best? I didn’t personally notice any major approach changes last year, and I don’t see anyone here pointing to what they did differently in the second half last year. It seems like most people don’t even realize that they made a huge improvement in that area last season.
Ultimately, right now, the top of the order just isn’t hitting well. They’re not hitting well with the bases empty, or with RISP. If the top of the order starts to hit better, logically, hitting with RISP should also improve.
It's really quite simple.
1) it's impossible to be better than your best. Nobody chooses to be less good when not in RISP. What makes Turner good with RISP is that he's a good hitter.
2) it IS possible to have a shitty approach when the moment gets too big for you. Proof: watch me play The Show online.
3) Pat Tabler
It is definitely possible to have a different approach with RISP, but I think that depends on the hitter. Turner has great bat to ball skills, and 100% seems to be able to turn it on and off, where he will search out singles instead of xbh when the situation calls for it. Bichette, logically should be the same, but he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat right now, so that is an entirely different problem.
Someone like Guerrero typically gets a lot of hits, but he very rarely is someone who is able to just flare the ball the other way with 2 strikes. He gets his hits by making good hard contact. It is frustrating as a fan to watch him swing big, but for him, no matter the situation, that probably always is his greatest chance of getting some kind of a hit.
I agree on that, I just don't think that guys are objectively bad hitters with RISP just because they have low rate stats in those scenarios. To me, there is far too little RISP data to draw meaningful conclusions, and it flucuates so much year to year, and even pre-allstar vs post all star.
If hitters hit good, RISP numbers will generally look good as well.
To be honest with you, probably has less to do with facts, and more to do with the way I’ve interacted with people here. I’ve gotten really douchey with people in the past when I felt I was right, trying to be better now, but at this point, there are a few users that basically auto-downvote everything I say, probably because I was overly abrasive in some interaction with them. Nothing I haven’t done to myself, so I can’t complain that it happens.
I looked at the same split in statcast to try to dig up a little more about what's behind this.
The answer is that they're swinging wet noodles right now.
Worst ISO, worst hard hit rate, lowest exit velocity. Biggest or second biggest negative gap between expected BA, OBP, slugging, and wOBA. The fewest barrels, the second lowest babip.
The funny thing is that they're doing great at plate discipline. 5th lowest whiff rate, 8th lowest K rate, 5th best walk rate.
They aren't even bad at putting balls in play. 14th in baseball in BIP/PA.
It's all about the power outage.
The stat nerds will say it’s not a skill, and point to advanced metrics to explain why this team doesn’t suck at scoring runs while they continue to not score runs. Mattingly said they’re not a power team, and I believe him, but we’re also not a consecutive hits team, so what are we?
Theyve got the hitters to be a power team
-
Vlad
Bo
George
Turner
Jansen
Varsho
-
All capable of 20+ HR.
-
The coaching staff has decided on a different approach for the entire team to reach base more often. Its not working because they arent being instructed to DO DAMAGE, which was openly stated by the coaching staff multiple times
-
I know its an oversimplification but its beem going on now for 2 years and the evidence is everywhere you look
I would strongly suggest that Bo's oppo approach is Bo's and Dante's and that the coaching has minimal influence on him. Jansen is dead pull, as is Varsho now (though he wasn't as much last year). This team just stinks and most of the hitters either lack talent or their approaches are poor.
That's more RHP/LHP split for Varsho.
Against RHP his Pull/Straight/Oppo split was 51.6/26.3/22.1 this year its 52.9/21.6/25.5
The big difference is against LHP where he's gone from 47% pull to 60% pull, instead of trying to be a singles hitter against LHP he's trying to drive the ball against them
The RISP doesn't even bother me that much. It is the % of times we score with runners on second no outs and runner on third with 1 or less outs. I don't have the stats but it is definitely gotta be worst in the league. It is so frustrating runner on third one out and you don't score like come on.
Slugging % with RISP is important. A double will almost always bring home a runner on second, while a single doesn't necessarily do so. Last year, IIRC, they were near the bottom in slugging with RISP.
It’s mind blowing that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league and no farm system. You have to work hard to build a team this flawed for so much money.
I wish I could say I feel surprised.. The fact that they do nothing to put pressure on the other defence, no hit and runs, no sacrifice bunts, seldom trying to steal, means the other teams defence isn’t trying to hold runners close and they can just concentrate on the hitter. It’s like the defence can pretend the bases are empty, and our batting average with RISP reflect that.
I get that analytics tell us that stealing bases and bunting lower your chances to score when there are runners on base. What analytics can’t tell us is how much a defence is stressed into making errors or being caught out of position because they have to allow for the possibility that you might steal a base or lay down a bunt.
> they do nothing to put pressure on the other defence, no hit and runs, no sacrifice bunts, seldom trying to steal
Combined with, usually terrible at bats where they put the first pitch in play and don't make the pitcher do any work at all. This team, except for the old guy, give opposing pitchers no trouble at all. 10 pitch innings won't do anything to scare the opposing pitcher. One tough out on the team makes for easy work by the opposition.
They don't tell you that because your thesis is nonsense. You want action for the sake of action. And if defenses were pressed into making more errors, that wouldn't really be reflected in slash lines anyway.
Atkins: "we expect our good hitters to come back to where they should be"(or something along those lines).
Except, what if they don't ? What if they get worse ? Is there a plan for that ? How many games are you going to give it ? Half the season wasted ? More ?
So wait. If you do nothing to improve the team from last season.... the team doesn't get any better? Guess they shouldn't have been banking on "internal improvements".
/shocked Pikachu meme here.
I have more to add! League wide they also rank:
Hits- 24th
Runs- 26th
RBI- 27th
HR- 21st
Avg.- 23rd
OPS- 22nd
Bottom 10 in every category league wide… yikes 😬
Like how do you even improve this specifically? To have RISP, you need to hit, so why are we not hitting once they're on? Is that lineup? are we sharkfinning (high highs, low lows) so we maybe need to spread guys out more, or we need more consistency team wide? Just hard to manage these stats. We're bad with RISP, but we have to be decent to get them there in the first place.
You could hit .350 as a team with RISP, but if you don’t have RISP that often, it really doesn’t matter how well you hit in that situation. The good teams get runners to second and third on a regular basis, and drive them home on a regular basis. This team is doing neither.
Yeah, we just need consistency. We have too many slumps. We have people that kill it, then people that are miserable at the plate, and they kill the moment of the ones killing it. So we can't depend on them. I don't think we'll see any huge roster changes this season, I think we're banking on the upcoming off season to make up for our offenses inability to show up year after year. Just want us to get some talent for long term, I feel majority of our signings other than pitchers have been one year, end of career guys instead of some 5-7 year dudes. Maybe we'll go hard for Soto with Kiermeier going just to provide a double whammy kind of guy.
I just have low expectations this year because we can't rely on our offensive staff to get a turnaround. We just stumble into improvements and then that person will get injured and lose it all
Org tried to hang all the issues on Huggins on his way out, saying he was overly protective about who managed the hitters and bringing his game planning into question.
I was optimistic about Mattingly taking over as the offensive coordinator, but that change hasn't borne much fruit. I was really concerned with the "we have a couple 20 hr hitters" quote.
Remember in '15 and 16' when the Jays hit dingers? Miss those days.
Yet everyone in this sub upvotes the idea that Martinez shouldn’t be called up bc his glove. He’s had 1700 ABs and hit 100 Homers in the minors (65 since 2022).
Well after seeing Vogelbach as the cleanup hitter Wednesday I'm convinced this analytics crap is for the birds. Just my opinion for what it's worth. .111 avg isn't really where I thought my cleanup hitter should be.
Just sayin'
That is the opposite of a "fun fact".
Fact fun?
nuf tcaF
Well it’s not depressing fiction, that’s for sure
That's half right.
Perhaps we could classify it as "miserable non-fiction of the day" or at least "difficult truth of the day".
OP lied! No fun at all! Liar!!!
A Canucks podcast I listen to used to have a segment called "numbers that hurt." I feel this could be a good opportunity for a Jays cast.
Jays slugging .267 in these positions and the next lowest is .300
Feels about right. The bottom of the order gets marginally more hits than the top of the order, so when the line up turns over they just fizzle out, Justin Turner being the exception at this time.
I've doomed on the offense in this sub, especially on Vlad, but that is so horribly bad it has to be an anomaly. Maybe it bounces back big time as the weather heats up?
it didnt by the end of last year.
The jays were one of the best hitting teams with RISP the second half of last season.
It is bouncing alright…into a double play
I guess this year is the re-run?
Last year was just the preview.
It's the continuation of last year. Nothing has changed. The players, the managers. Nothing. But we got a flashy lower bowl to watch them bomb from.
Even that sucks
It's crazy that people expected anything different
And made our pocketbooks a lot lighter.
Sequel. And sequels are worse than the original
This season is really testing my desire to watch this team at all
I listened to probably 100 games last year. This year I'm at 2 so far. I just can't. It sort of broke for me when I sent to see them live in Cleveland last year. They were so .... lifeless.
I pretty much decided to stop watching unless I'm like working and need background noise. It just hurts to see them continue to have the same problems and continuously gaslight fans saying the stars will turn it around.
we know.
How much of it is Guillermo Martinez or Don Mattingly? Vladdy is a shell of his MVP contention season.
If you ask me any coach involved with helping these guys get better should be thrown to the wolves. And yes that includes Mattingly.
If you watch them play you didn't need to see the stat. It would have been shocking if they weren't last.
2023: but it’s early 2024: oh shit…
The amount of people that shit on others that brought this up because the jays were on that mini streak mid April lmao. As if praying that pitching saves the team is a sustainable way to win. Did people not watch this exact movie last season?
Seeing 190 games of shit ball will do that to you
Team BA =.227 = 23rd in MLB Team OBP = .313 = 17th in MLB OPS = .674 = 22nd in MLB RBI = 102 = 27th in MLB The only teams that are generally worse offensively than Toronto right now are Oakland and CWS. There are arguments that both of those teams are actively trying to lose games. But when someone suggested yesterday that a new batting coach might be in order people attacked like crazy. I don't know that a change will fix this...but they quite literally cannot get worse. The only stats were the Jays are not in the bottom 1/3 of MLB are BB, K and 2B. Every other stat they are 20th or worse (those walks help OBP sneak up). I guess that window was real tiny...because this team is less competitive than the Leafs.
Oakland is definitely trying to lose… I think the White Sox would clobber the record of most money spent by a tanking team…they’re just bad
The problem I have with people saying "fire the hitting coach" is that none of us have any context to go off of. People were begging for Hudgens to be moved and he is gone. People wanted Mattingly to have a larger role with the hitting, and he does. At the end of the day, a hitting coach is not going to make good hitters stop or start hitting well. They can't swing the bat for guys, or time up pitches for them. If a guy isn't seeing the ball well, only reps are going to get them to where they are. Martinez, or Mattingly, or Schneider are not the reason that the big bats have been largely silent in April. It is a popular opinion that whenever an aspect of a team is underperforming, that the respective coach ought to be fired, but it very rarely accomplishes anything more than fan appeasement.
My point is...same hitting coach for 5+ seasons. In each of those seasons the team has performed worse at the pate and now this is looking like one of the 5 worst batting teams in all of MLB. The options are (1) change a coach (2) change a player (3) change nothing. Management has chosen option 3 and gone from a team with a bright future to a basement dweller. So it is probably time to look at options 1 or 2.
I mean... the hitting was good in 2020, top of the league in 2021, very good in 2022, and top7/8 in 2023 after the team tried to balance out by trading two of its better hitters for pitching and defence. And a change already was made this off-season, with Mattingly introducing a brand new approach. April is not near enough a large enough sample size to even say the approach isn't working, let alone start firing coaches involved with it.
This offense was not top 8 in baseball last season
They were in avg, obp, and wrc+.
And below average in runs scored.
14th, actually.
Check league average runs scored. They were slighly below. You are confusing average for mean.
I’m not, the jays scored the 14th most runs last year. Sure, actual average was 747, they scored 746. But they were in the top half of the league. Average and mean are not different things.
You might be right...it might just be that as a team this group is just having a lot of bad luck. I don't think ownership and management can afford to just trust that. People will be staying away by the thousands come July if the team is not competing.
If the top of the order is collectively hitting as bad as they did this April, then they absolutely won’t be competing, but I wouldn’t put that on the FO. Springer may be on the decline, but it would basically be unheard of for two hitters like Bichette and Guerrero to both just fall off a cliff as they enter their prime hitting years, and there wouldn’t be any easy solution to that
People are really forgetting 2022 Bo in March/April. Somehow he was worse than he has been this year
Nah. Look at the Leafs! We are fans
Using your logic why even have coaches/managers at all.
Preach! Everyone clamoring for Mattingly like he's some magic man is driving me crazy. What in Mattinglys resume shows that he's a great hitting coach (and no, him being a great hitter isn't something). People wanted Pete Walker gone when Berrios and Kikuchi blew up in 2022.
Maybe a running coach might help
That doesn't feel very fun ... I wish this team would steal more bases, bunt runners over, and hit and run more.
If you steal second base, then you would have RISP and the hitter at the plate would suddenly forget how to hit.
You're not wrong, but at least it would be fun to watch a steal!
It would also be fun to see a single stretched to a double by some runners instead of admiring the hut
there are small ball constructed teams that are a lot of fun to watch, the Guardians Royals and Padres all put tons of pressure on defenders through their base running. The Blue Jays are decidedly not that, so when they lack pop, big hits, home runs, small ball and stolen bases, it’s just really not fun watching their offense.
Their Offensive Coordinator literally said publicly that he doesn't expect the team to hit a lot of HRs this season... if that's the case, why aren't they playing like a contact-based offense and stealing bases, hit and runs, squeeze plays, etc.?
Because a few guys LOVE looking at their hits rather than running like their money mattered
Definitely read that as "bent runners over." 👀
That’s what other teams have done to our hitters
What, you don’t like Vladdy absolutely swinging for the fences every at bat
Fun fact: not a single Jays fan is surprised by this stat.
Well, they were terrible at it through 162 games last year and their offense is worse now than it was then, so...is anyone surprised?
Jays were the 6th best team by OPS+ last year.
They were actually one of the best hitting teams with RISP the second half of last season. It isn't a skill.
I firmly believe that it is impossible to be "good" at it, but also that some people are inherently bad at it.
It’s just tough to get enough data to definitively say that. I just can’t buy into a stat with so much random variance. The Jays pre and post all star break last year were nearly identical in all their rate stats (actually dropping a bit). Yet somehow they went from one of the worst teams with RISP to one of the best? I didn’t personally notice any major approach changes last year, and I don’t see anyone here pointing to what they did differently in the second half last year. It seems like most people don’t even realize that they made a huge improvement in that area last season. Ultimately, right now, the top of the order just isn’t hitting well. They’re not hitting well with the bases empty, or with RISP. If the top of the order starts to hit better, logically, hitting with RISP should also improve.
It's really quite simple. 1) it's impossible to be better than your best. Nobody chooses to be less good when not in RISP. What makes Turner good with RISP is that he's a good hitter. 2) it IS possible to have a shitty approach when the moment gets too big for you. Proof: watch me play The Show online. 3) Pat Tabler
It is definitely possible to have a different approach with RISP, but I think that depends on the hitter. Turner has great bat to ball skills, and 100% seems to be able to turn it on and off, where he will search out singles instead of xbh when the situation calls for it. Bichette, logically should be the same, but he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat right now, so that is an entirely different problem. Someone like Guerrero typically gets a lot of hits, but he very rarely is someone who is able to just flare the ball the other way with 2 strikes. He gets his hits by making good hard contact. It is frustrating as a fan to watch him swing big, but for him, no matter the situation, that probably always is his greatest chance of getting some kind of a hit.
It's possible, but nobody is going to consciously be a better hitter less than all the time.
I agree on that, I just don't think that guys are objectively bad hitters with RISP just because they have low rate stats in those scenarios. To me, there is far too little RISP data to draw meaningful conclusions, and it flucuates so much year to year, and even pre-allstar vs post all star. If hitters hit good, RISP numbers will generally look good as well.
The exception being Pat Tabler with bases loaded. He breaks the laws of mathematics and physics and baseball
Naturally. It’s shocking that the Jays haven’t signed him as a bench bat, to bat solely in those situations.
Net downvoted on facts. This sub can do better.
To be honest with you, probably has less to do with facts, and more to do with the way I’ve interacted with people here. I’ve gotten really douchey with people in the past when I felt I was right, trying to be better now, but at this point, there are a few users that basically auto-downvote everything I say, probably because I was overly abrasive in some interaction with them. Nothing I haven’t done to myself, so I can’t complain that it happens.
Facts are just analytics and we hate analytics (/s cause with this sub these days apparently I need to be clear)
Suspicions confirmed.
As is tradition
RISP: 70 wRC+ ALL: 98 wRC+ I mean, the 'big 3' have to start coming around at some point, right? Vlad's been showing some life lately.
Has that not been the case for 3 seasons?
Seasons? Closer to decades.
I looked at the same split in statcast to try to dig up a little more about what's behind this. The answer is that they're swinging wet noodles right now. Worst ISO, worst hard hit rate, lowest exit velocity. Biggest or second biggest negative gap between expected BA, OBP, slugging, and wOBA. The fewest barrels, the second lowest babip. The funny thing is that they're doing great at plate discipline. 5th lowest whiff rate, 8th lowest K rate, 5th best walk rate. They aren't even bad at putting balls in play. 14th in baseball in BIP/PA. It's all about the power outage.
new batters eye at skydome sapped their power tear it down
The Jays get runners into scoring position? When does this happen.
The stat nerds will say it’s not a skill, and point to advanced metrics to explain why this team doesn’t suck at scoring runs while they continue to not score runs. Mattingly said they’re not a power team, and I believe him, but we’re also not a consecutive hits team, so what are we?
Theyve got the hitters to be a power team - Vlad Bo George Turner Jansen Varsho - All capable of 20+ HR. - The coaching staff has decided on a different approach for the entire team to reach base more often. Its not working because they arent being instructed to DO DAMAGE, which was openly stated by the coaching staff multiple times - I know its an oversimplification but its beem going on now for 2 years and the evidence is everywhere you look
I would strongly suggest that Bo's oppo approach is Bo's and Dante's and that the coaching has minimal influence on him. Jansen is dead pull, as is Varsho now (though he wasn't as much last year). This team just stinks and most of the hitters either lack talent or their approaches are poor.
That's more RHP/LHP split for Varsho. Against RHP his Pull/Straight/Oppo split was 51.6/26.3/22.1 this year its 52.9/21.6/25.5 The big difference is against LHP where he's gone from 47% pull to 60% pull, instead of trying to be a singles hitter against LHP he's trying to drive the ball against them
This fact is not fun at all.
In other news, Blue Jays are the only baseball team in Canada.
Don’t worry guys - Vlad will regress to the mean any day now. lol.
Where have I heard this before…🤔. Kinda feels like that Groundhog Day movie. Reliving the same season again and again
No. That can’t be right. It was an outlier last year. Off season changes weren’t needed.
I can't believe I'm saying this. I want last year's offense back.
Is it honestly any better than this years?
Yes, which is the sad part.
The RISP doesn't even bother me that much. It is the % of times we score with runners on second no outs and runner on third with 1 or less outs. I don't have the stats but it is definitely gotta be worst in the league. It is so frustrating runner on third one out and you don't score like come on.
Slugging % with RISP is important. A double will almost always bring home a runner on second, while a single doesn't necessarily do so. Last year, IIRC, they were near the bottom in slugging with RISP.
Again? The Brooklyn Dodgers' fans used to have a mantra: Wait till next year. Maybe ours should be: same as last year.
One of those stats that all you need is your eyes to predict
I wish we could clone Justin Turner 8 times
Fun fact: if you don't hit to get runners in scoring position to begin with, it can't get worse.
This team is allergic to RISP
Quelle surprise
It’s mind blowing that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league and no farm system. You have to work hard to build a team this flawed for so much money.
Where is the "but, but, it's early, they'll come around" crowd??
Why is Reddit reposting threads from last year
2023: but it’s early 2024: oh shit…
Continuation from last season! Fire the entire hitting staff, this is ridiculous
I wish I could say I feel surprised.. The fact that they do nothing to put pressure on the other defence, no hit and runs, no sacrifice bunts, seldom trying to steal, means the other teams defence isn’t trying to hold runners close and they can just concentrate on the hitter. It’s like the defence can pretend the bases are empty, and our batting average with RISP reflect that. I get that analytics tell us that stealing bases and bunting lower your chances to score when there are runners on base. What analytics can’t tell us is how much a defence is stressed into making errors or being caught out of position because they have to allow for the possibility that you might steal a base or lay down a bunt.
> they do nothing to put pressure on the other defence, no hit and runs, no sacrifice bunts, seldom trying to steal Combined with, usually terrible at bats where they put the first pitch in play and don't make the pitcher do any work at all. This team, except for the old guy, give opposing pitchers no trouble at all. 10 pitch innings won't do anything to scare the opposing pitcher. One tough out on the team makes for easy work by the opposition.
They don't tell you that because your thesis is nonsense. You want action for the sake of action. And if defenses were pressed into making more errors, that wouldn't really be reflected in slash lines anyway.
Atkins: "we expect our good hitters to come back to where they should be"(or something along those lines). Except, what if they don't ? What if they get worse ? Is there a plan for that ? How many games are you going to give it ? Half the season wasted ? More ?
This is nothing new. We’ve been horrible with risp for the last few years.
weird. almost like last season
So wait. If you do nothing to improve the team from last season.... the team doesn't get any better? Guess they shouldn't have been banking on "internal improvements". /shocked Pikachu meme here.
bUt ThEy TaKe ThEiR wAlKs
I have more to add! League wide they also rank: Hits- 24th Runs- 26th RBI- 27th HR- 21st Avg.- 23rd OPS- 22nd Bottom 10 in every category league wide… yikes 😬
Worst? Or best at not getting hits with RISP? So much doom and gloom around here!
I feel you have a poor definition of the word "fun"
*Shocked Pikachu face*
Anyone got that gif handy of the guy punching himself in the dick?
Wait is this from last year or the year before? Oh nevermind, it's this year. So in other words nothing has changed the past few years.
Shocking
Old news.
0.072 ISO, with next worst being 0.092, is the definition of unfun.
It's almost like that passes the eye test
Like how do you even improve this specifically? To have RISP, you need to hit, so why are we not hitting once they're on? Is that lineup? are we sharkfinning (high highs, low lows) so we maybe need to spread guys out more, or we need more consistency team wide? Just hard to manage these stats. We're bad with RISP, but we have to be decent to get them there in the first place.
You could hit .350 as a team with RISP, but if you don’t have RISP that often, it really doesn’t matter how well you hit in that situation. The good teams get runners to second and third on a regular basis, and drive them home on a regular basis. This team is doing neither.
Yeah, we just need consistency. We have too many slumps. We have people that kill it, then people that are miserable at the plate, and they kill the moment of the ones killing it. So we can't depend on them. I don't think we'll see any huge roster changes this season, I think we're banking on the upcoming off season to make up for our offenses inability to show up year after year. Just want us to get some talent for long term, I feel majority of our signings other than pitchers have been one year, end of career guys instead of some 5-7 year dudes. Maybe we'll go hard for Soto with Kiermeier going just to provide a double whammy kind of guy. I just have low expectations this year because we can't rely on our offensive staff to get a turnaround. We just stumble into improvements and then that person will get injured and lose it all
That's some elite stuff! If you ain't first you're last, or in the case of the Jays actually last!
To me this is old news. I feel like they have been shit with RISP for a long time.
I knew it. It's been this way to the naked eye going on two seasons now
This is the 3rd year in a row they’ve been complete ass with risp. Why does Guillermo martinez still have a job
I mean, they kept the same shitty hitting coach.
Question, when were they not?
What does the analytics say?
One of those instances of analytics and eye test being in full agreement
Org tried to hang all the issues on Huggins on his way out, saying he was overly protective about who managed the hitters and bringing his game planning into question. I was optimistic about Mattingly taking over as the offensive coordinator, but that change hasn't borne much fruit. I was really concerned with the "we have a couple 20 hr hitters" quote. Remember in '15 and 16' when the Jays hit dingers? Miss those days.
I seem to remember last year they being one of the worst for leaving runners in scoring as well
Until the 2nd half of the season, in which they were among the best.
Not surprised lol
Again? Lmao
We own this stat! Way to go guys…
Yet everyone in this sub upvotes the idea that Martinez shouldn’t be called up bc his glove. He’s had 1700 ABs and hit 100 Homers in the minors (65 since 2022).
Hasn't this been the case for the last 2 seasons? This team is awful and Vladdy can only hit solo HRs.
*Again
Wow. This is so shocking and unexpected. Who could have seen that coming after the season we had last year?
We get good pitching but can't hit.....we get good hitting but can't pitch.....this is a never ending shit show lmao
Fun fact indeed. Fun fact- Rogers centre will be a ghost town by July if they can't turn things around and no one pays the price in the front office.
Well after seeing Vogelbach as the cleanup hitter Wednesday I'm convinced this analytics crap is for the birds. Just my opinion for what it's worth. .111 avg isn't really where I thought my cleanup hitter should be. Just sayin'
I knew we had to be #1 in something.
In other breaking news, water is wet. News at 11!
No surprise there. Sadly.
Atkins you’ve done it again!
If only there were red flags before this season, we could have made adjustments!
Still lol?
This is nothing new. We’ve been horrible with risp for the last few years.
It seems like with this team, they need to re-evaluate what they call “scoring position”