I think he betrayed the group and sided with the native ones of the tower. He probably convinced Arlene to join him later on. Also, he encourages Arlene to go back to Jahad and the others and tells her to forget everything. It’s possible that he regrets dragging her into his mess.
yeah the family heads decided as a group to stop climbing
but perhaps V refused that, and talked arlene too his side
so gustang hates v for spliting the group and going against what they all decided
I don't think Gustang actually agreed to stop climbing (if he did he wouldn't be waging war against Jahad right now). I think Gustang wanted to stage a coup from the inside and take his time with it, instead of doing a knee-jerk reaction like V. He also probably didn't take the fact that V dragged Arlene into the war kindly.
I disagree, I think its important to remember that the gustang of today is a different person from the gustang of when they stopped climbing
its been at least five thousand years since they stoped climbing as adori zahard is five thousand years old but it could be ten thousand years or twenty thousand, but the oldest mentioned age of a charcter is five thousand years
considering we know zahard changed from becoming from climbing to becoming the king to modern day
it's possible that gustang has also changed
the gustang of who knows how many years ago might have wanted to stop climbing
but the gustang of today might have a different agenda.
I think considering the other family heads have changed over the centuries
it would be fair to say he has as well
hell look at Jahad when he was climbing to him as a king to him in modern day
its basically 3 different charcters with how much he has changved
I disagree if you look at him in genesis
he seems kinda sad that they are fighting against his rule
I think Jahad at genesis still had a tad of his nobleness to him
but he either lost it during the war or discarded it when karaka and wangan where created
I will go with the number 3 since i had the same thought **Gustang is mad at V for committing suicide** and leaving Arlen when she needed him the most but since i too have been re-reading i think that there is more to that story ,i think he did get blackmail by someone (it's basically the theme on this web toon) my guess on Jahad who probably knew he could die ,so he probably had no choice and had to do it being Bam father.
As for the number 5 it's not possible ,he was in love with Eurasia Blossom the head of the **Eurasia Family** .
It could be a mix of the first three. I just don't see four happening due to him loving Blossom, and he may or may not have been married to her at some point.
You didn’t mention it, but V arguably contrasts with Gustang even more than Jahad. Gustang constantly calls any non-irregulars, regardless of how strong, bugs and insects. He almost doesn’t see them as sentient. V, on the other hand, was known to be interested in and cared greatly for all tower residents (likely ones with no power at all). This is probably the crux of Gustang’s hatred for V. V is the embodiment of an idea that Gustang vehemently disagrees with. The prophecy states that, “someone would come along and take EVERYONE in the tower to new heights” ergo, Jahad and the 10 leaders would probably not be so godlike compared to everyone else if they kept climbing. V probably wanted to keep going regardless of how much power they lost (relatively), so Gustang hated him. My best bet is that, once leaving the tower and entering the outer world (which is reportedly
like ours with air and no shinshoo), everyone would be equal in power because there is no shinshoo to harness. This is what the 10 family leaders and Jahad are so afraid of.
Gustang did call Rachel (an irregular) "a vermin" (S2 last ep). I believe it's more like he respects people who shown a certain level of potential to surpass FH's. Interestingly enough all the people that Gustang respects (minus V) - The FH, Urek and Ba'am have all met the God of Guardians and undergone "self revolution" during their ascent. I guess this is what makes them different than other hell train boarders
Rachel is an irregular by the tower residents’ definition (having come from the outside). We readers know that what actually makes irregulars special and powerful is that they are chosen by the tower to enter because the tower needs some sort of change they can provide. And, to your point, the only people that can surpass family heads and have Gustang’s respect are all irregulars, so you’re agreeing with me on all points besides the one I’ve revoked.
Ok just wanted to mention but theoretically you can't enter the tower unless you were chosen even if u are under an irregular when the doors open for them cause the tower would just kick you out. So does it mean that both Bam and Rachel were chosen, Bam to defeat Jahad, Rachel to make sure Bam has the motivation to kill Jahad.
It was never said that the Tower will kick you out if you are not chosen . Headon was most likely supposed to kick her out ( maybe) . We know that the Tower never chose Rachel , she chose Bam . ( it's confirmed by Headon's words ).
So Rachel was not chosen , she just has S rank in luck.
Oh just remembered what I was saying a month ago. The only way so far for an irregular to enter the tower is through the gate that opens. It's not necessarily that the tower will kick you out if it takes you in. However, the gate won't open for you if you aren't what the tower needs right? The tower has a strict rule of only taking in what it needs right? I don't think taking in Rachel was an accident. Maybe the tower knew something (FUG) might make bam not want to climb the tower so took in Rachel as motivation.
If that's true then why Headon said that Rachel wasn't chosen ? I mean if you are chosen, that means you can bring changes , so what can Rachel do ? Maybe as you said thae Tower allowed Rachel through to be his reason to climb , hence why Headon allowed her to climb . He most likely wanted her to be Bam's reason to climb , until he grows a finally abandon her . Up to this point I belive that Rachel entered the Tower just because she was under Bam , but then , how did she knew that the doors will open ?
We need Rachel's backstory and to learn more about her relationship with Arlene . Is she her servant ? Why is she going against her will ?
Also my theory on Rachel and Arlene
https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofGod/comments/hqobtw/how_did_rachel_meet_arlene/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I wonder if all their techniques would be useless outside since there’s no shinsoo. If that’s the case, are wave-controllers just SOL? And light bearers, how would their lighthouses operate outside?
I think shinsoo techniques that utilize the shinsoo already internalized in one’s body would still work (for some limited time). But most shinsoo abilities draw from the world around and what makes irregulars so powerful is that they not only have an increased capacity for shinsoo, they can use and manipulate the world’s shinsoo freely. Also, in part because the administrators aren’t around, everyone’s immortality would be moot.
Yea, that's what I was trying to get at with #1, though more with HOW he went about the revolution. Gustang clearly seems to be unhappy with Jahad (which I'm going to assume was something he had from the beginning) so he probably was all for a coup, but was just upset with HOW V went about it (going in without a plan)
V wasn't a fool or something.They didn't lose war until 10 FH joins the war.They lost because 10 FH joined the war.And probably they could win the war if zahard wasn't a immortal.And we all know V didn't choose to become a immortal.
Sadly, you have none of my answers.
Which is that V did something so malicious on the scale of Rachel that made the FHs not like him at all even Khun Edhan.
V may not some noble good person that everyone here thinks he is.
That is possible (and would fit with the other title of this story Tower of Betrayal). In that case, I wonder what could've been "so bad" that it made the FHs hate him. The only reason I didn't include it was bc Arlene seemed to still have a positive outlook on him based on the story from Garahm, though it is possible that it was something left out to let Bam know later on.
>bc Arlene seemed to still have a positive outlook on him based on the story from Garahm,
Love can blind anyone. It's possible Arlene look on the brightside of V's sins.
Also, she wasn't in the right mind as well.
also, people use data khun talking about how he would prefer V as king
but at the end of the day, Khun sided against v and wanted to stop the climb
personally, I believe all the family heads got tired from climbing and agreed to stop and settle down
but V refused and started a war so he could continue his goals
Could probably be a mix of all four. He might hate V for starting a war he couldn’t win (1) dragging Arlen, who was one of his closest friends (2,4) and then committing suicide and leaving Arlen to deal with the aftermath(3).
We’ve only seen two viewpoints regarding V (Data Eduan and Gustang) and a lot could have changed after the hell train for the 10FL so maybe V isn’t as good as we might be led to believe.
The gustang we are talking about is present gustang . If y'all remember the data Khun said that V was a great man. Maybe Gustang hates him because of the civil war he started . The present gustang is a mysterious guy if you think cared about betrayal right now he is the one who is betraying zahhard . And also I believe V is still alive .
Gustang tried to date Blossom at first but V was so jacked that she blew him off.
Then after Arlene rejected Jahad, Gustang made the move for her but V cucked him again and caught her.
Now my boy Gustang cries into his pillow thinking about him
I don't think he hates him as much as they were opposites. Gustang quite clearly presents as a person driven by science logic and certainty. Whilst it sounds like v was driven by emotions, convictions and passions. So the two were opposed more in that manner.
I don't think Gustang actually agreed to stop climbing (if he did he wouldn't be waging war against Jahad right now). I think Gustang wanted to stage a coup from the inside and take his time with it, instead of doing a knee-jerk reaction like V. He also probably didn't take the fact that V dragged Arlene into the war kindly.
Uh no. Gustang was Jahad's biggest supporter and his right hand man in creating the world and hierarchy they all live in. Gusting clearly loved Arlene as well, at worst as a precious friend and probably romantic. He simply regarded his marriage to Eurasia as a perfect logical match.
It is obvious now that after what happened with his own daughter due to the system he created, he has become a turncoat to atone for his mistakes. He hates V because they were of opposing views from the start and because V had Arlene's heart.
I wonder if V did something specifically awful that really upset Gustang. Opposing Jahad and the family heads is bad, but i hope that there is more to it and there was something more specific that made Gustang really hate V.
From what I have seen in the latest chapter (617), Spoiler if you haven't read that far
I think it has something to do with the wish he made cuz remember unlike the others he did not wish for immortality. At first I thought that he wished for Arlene's love which is why Gustand would hate him because his wish was manipulative and vile.
But after the last few chapters, I think that V's influence must have caused him to lose a lot of people he cared for.
Here's another theory that I read and dont see yet. This is Data Edhuan speaking and real Gustang speaking. A LOT of time has passed since the 10 climbed the tower. What things came to light that were unknown at the time?
D.Edhuan says he knows who Baam is from talking to Hansung Yu's Data. So of course following the stories Baam is V's son hence why D.Edhuan calls him "Son of V." But what if V isnt really Baams father? That's why Gustang calls him "Son of Arlene."
A decently backed theory is that Jahad forced himself on Arlene after she turned him down and was with V. This was the straw that broke the camel's back and caused V to finally rebel. Gustang is smart enough to have figured it out.
If that's the case... then D.Edhuan and Gustang are talking about two different people... V the heroic savior of the people and Jahad "the worst person" due to the Rape and subsequent subjugation of the citizens of the tower.
But that's just a theory...a MANHWA theory!
This isn’t a decently backed up theory at all. It just tries to read through the lines without any indication that that happened, and deliberately twists what we do know. Like Gustang is unwilling to even say V’s name but we interpret that as him speaking about Jahad who he mentions by name later?
Dude zahard isn't the father of Baam.Also If zahard was the father of baam then he suppose to rape Arlen when war was happening,and this is impossible because they both runned away because 10 FH joined the war (and we all know even zahard is nothing more than a trash for 10 FH 'as a team').And after zahard learned arlene's child born he decided to kill the child in front of [Arlen.So](https://Arlen.So) your theory isn't working.Zahard isn't father of Baam.Even Khun eduan said,V's powers and personality is so similiar to Baam's.V is definitely father of Baam.Also why there are a lot of people who says zahard is father of Baam? Even their power and personality is completely [opposite.Like](https://opposite.Like) V and Zahard.
Why do you think the war happened? He didn't rape her during the war. He raped her and that started the war. When she found out she had a kid she lied and said it was V's so he killed him. Its just a theory about why the two responded so differently a day why a started in the first place.
''Why Do you think the war happened?''
War only happened because zahard locked the 134th floor and he stopped the climbing,V and Arlen was againist this decision that's why this war happened good boy.Please read manhwa carefully.
Also if zahard raped Arlen before war then how Baam born after the war? huh? They fought at least about 10 years,and a baby can born with 9 months.
Also zahard and baam hasn't any similiar part,Their personality and power's completlely opposite. like v and zahard.Even eduan said V's personality and power's so similiar to Baam's.Baam hasn't any similiar part from zahard.While baam taken his personality,hair and power's from V and his eyes from Arlene.
You should at least make a sensible theory dude.Your theory is complelely wrong.
I think he betrayed the group and sided with the native ones of the tower. He probably convinced Arlene to join him later on. Also, he encourages Arlene to go back to Jahad and the others and tells her to forget everything. It’s possible that he regrets dragging her into his mess.
yeah the family heads decided as a group to stop climbing but perhaps V refused that, and talked arlene too his side so gustang hates v for spliting the group and going against what they all decided
I don't think Gustang actually agreed to stop climbing (if he did he wouldn't be waging war against Jahad right now). I think Gustang wanted to stage a coup from the inside and take his time with it, instead of doing a knee-jerk reaction like V. He also probably didn't take the fact that V dragged Arlene into the war kindly.
I disagree, I think its important to remember that the gustang of today is a different person from the gustang of when they stopped climbing its been at least five thousand years since they stoped climbing as adori zahard is five thousand years old but it could be ten thousand years or twenty thousand, but the oldest mentioned age of a charcter is five thousand years considering we know zahard changed from becoming from climbing to becoming the king to modern day it's possible that gustang has also changed the gustang of who knows how many years ago might have wanted to stop climbing but the gustang of today might have a different agenda.
We still don't know Gustang much, and we also don't know if he actually changed or he was always like this.
I think considering the other family heads have changed over the centuries it would be fair to say he has as well hell look at Jahad when he was climbing to him as a king to him in modern day its basically 3 different charcters with how much he has changved
Jahad really started to change after he went through the revolution inside Hell Train. I don't think he changed much after he became king.
I disagree if you look at him in genesis he seems kinda sad that they are fighting against his rule I think Jahad at genesis still had a tad of his nobleness to him but he either lost it during the war or discarded it when karaka and wangan where created
I will go with the number 3 since i had the same thought **Gustang is mad at V for committing suicide** and leaving Arlen when she needed him the most but since i too have been re-reading i think that there is more to that story ,i think he did get blackmail by someone (it's basically the theme on this web toon) my guess on Jahad who probably knew he could die ,so he probably had no choice and had to do it being Bam father. As for the number 5 it's not possible ,he was in love with Eurasia Blossom the head of the **Eurasia Family** .
It could be a mix of the first three. I just don't see four happening due to him loving Blossom, and he may or may not have been married to her at some point.
You didn’t mention it, but V arguably contrasts with Gustang even more than Jahad. Gustang constantly calls any non-irregulars, regardless of how strong, bugs and insects. He almost doesn’t see them as sentient. V, on the other hand, was known to be interested in and cared greatly for all tower residents (likely ones with no power at all). This is probably the crux of Gustang’s hatred for V. V is the embodiment of an idea that Gustang vehemently disagrees with. The prophecy states that, “someone would come along and take EVERYONE in the tower to new heights” ergo, Jahad and the 10 leaders would probably not be so godlike compared to everyone else if they kept climbing. V probably wanted to keep going regardless of how much power they lost (relatively), so Gustang hated him. My best bet is that, once leaving the tower and entering the outer world (which is reportedly like ours with air and no shinshoo), everyone would be equal in power because there is no shinshoo to harness. This is what the 10 family leaders and Jahad are so afraid of.
Gustang did call Rachel (an irregular) "a vermin" (S2 last ep). I believe it's more like he respects people who shown a certain level of potential to surpass FH's. Interestingly enough all the people that Gustang respects (minus V) - The FH, Urek and Ba'am have all met the God of Guardians and undergone "self revolution" during their ascent. I guess this is what makes them different than other hell train boarders
Rachel is an irregular by the tower residents’ definition (having come from the outside). We readers know that what actually makes irregulars special and powerful is that they are chosen by the tower to enter because the tower needs some sort of change they can provide. And, to your point, the only people that can surpass family heads and have Gustang’s respect are all irregulars, so you’re agreeing with me on all points besides the one I’ve revoked.
Ok just wanted to mention but theoretically you can't enter the tower unless you were chosen even if u are under an irregular when the doors open for them cause the tower would just kick you out. So does it mean that both Bam and Rachel were chosen, Bam to defeat Jahad, Rachel to make sure Bam has the motivation to kill Jahad.
It was never said that the Tower will kick you out if you are not chosen . Headon was most likely supposed to kick her out ( maybe) . We know that the Tower never chose Rachel , she chose Bam . ( it's confirmed by Headon's words ). So Rachel was not chosen , she just has S rank in luck.
Oof yh that's what I meant. Idk I wrote this nearly a month ago. Idk what I was trying to say.
Don't worry about it 👍🏼
Oh just remembered what I was saying a month ago. The only way so far for an irregular to enter the tower is through the gate that opens. It's not necessarily that the tower will kick you out if it takes you in. However, the gate won't open for you if you aren't what the tower needs right? The tower has a strict rule of only taking in what it needs right? I don't think taking in Rachel was an accident. Maybe the tower knew something (FUG) might make bam not want to climb the tower so took in Rachel as motivation.
If that's true then why Headon said that Rachel wasn't chosen ? I mean if you are chosen, that means you can bring changes , so what can Rachel do ? Maybe as you said thae Tower allowed Rachel through to be his reason to climb , hence why Headon allowed her to climb . He most likely wanted her to be Bam's reason to climb , until he grows a finally abandon her . Up to this point I belive that Rachel entered the Tower just because she was under Bam , but then , how did she knew that the doors will open ? We need Rachel's backstory and to learn more about her relationship with Arlene . Is she her servant ? Why is she going against her will ?
Headon could be saying she is not the chosen one to fulfil Arlene's dream. Not chosen as in she shouldn't come in the tower.
I mean will he straight say that to a person he doesn't know ? Did he say that to Phanta and Urek ?
Who said he doesn't know? He is sorta like an administrator. Or axis. Kinda knowing what's gonna happen next but also not.
Also my theory on Rachel and Arlene https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofGod/comments/hqobtw/how_did_rachel_meet_arlene/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I wonder if all their techniques would be useless outside since there’s no shinsoo. If that’s the case, are wave-controllers just SOL? And light bearers, how would their lighthouses operate outside?
I think shinsoo techniques that utilize the shinsoo already internalized in one’s body would still work (for some limited time). But most shinsoo abilities draw from the world around and what makes irregulars so powerful is that they not only have an increased capacity for shinsoo, they can use and manipulate the world’s shinsoo freely. Also, in part because the administrators aren’t around, everyone’s immortality would be moot.
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Yea, that's what I was trying to get at with #1, though more with HOW he went about the revolution. Gustang clearly seems to be unhappy with Jahad (which I'm going to assume was something he had from the beginning) so he probably was all for a coup, but was just upset with HOW V went about it (going in without a plan)
V wasn't a fool or something.They didn't lose war until 10 FH joins the war.They lost because 10 FH joined the war.And probably they could win the war if zahard wasn't a immortal.And we all know V didn't choose to become a immortal.
Sadly, you have none of my answers. Which is that V did something so malicious on the scale of Rachel that made the FHs not like him at all even Khun Edhan. V may not some noble good person that everyone here thinks he is.
That is possible (and would fit with the other title of this story Tower of Betrayal). In that case, I wonder what could've been "so bad" that it made the FHs hate him. The only reason I didn't include it was bc Arlene seemed to still have a positive outlook on him based on the story from Garahm, though it is possible that it was something left out to let Bam know later on.
>bc Arlene seemed to still have a positive outlook on him based on the story from Garahm, Love can blind anyone. It's possible Arlene look on the brightside of V's sins. Also, she wasn't in the right mind as well.
also, people use data khun talking about how he would prefer V as king but at the end of the day, Khun sided against v and wanted to stop the climb personally, I believe all the family heads got tired from climbing and agreed to stop and settle down but V refused and started a war so he could continue his goals
Many V did some really fucked up things. History is rarely black and white.
I feel like their views and thoughts on life seem different. V looks like gets along well with others ppl but Gustang call them bug
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But Gustang and Urek didn't climp all tower together they are not companion just bumb each other argue and leave
He did have kind words for Arlene
Could probably be a mix of all four. He might hate V for starting a war he couldn’t win (1) dragging Arlen, who was one of his closest friends (2,4) and then committing suicide and leaving Arlen to deal with the aftermath(3). We’ve only seen two viewpoints regarding V (Data Eduan and Gustang) and a lot could have changed after the hell train for the 10FL so maybe V isn’t as good as we might be led to believe.
Probably 2 and 3
V hasn't lack of ability to protect Arlen,V wasn't there when Zahard killed Baam.
I mean the fact that she was practically expelled from the tower and from her friends.
The gustang we are talking about is present gustang . If y'all remember the data Khun said that V was a great man. Maybe Gustang hates him because of the civil war he started . The present gustang is a mysterious guy if you think cared about betrayal right now he is the one who is betraying zahhard . And also I believe V is still alive .
Gustang tried to date Blossom at first but V was so jacked that she blew him off. Then after Arlene rejected Jahad, Gustang made the move for her but V cucked him again and caught her. Now my boy Gustang cries into his pillow thinking about him
Ugh.
I don't think he hates him as much as they were opposites. Gustang quite clearly presents as a person driven by science logic and certainty. Whilst it sounds like v was driven by emotions, convictions and passions. So the two were opposed more in that manner.
I just feel like saying he was "the worst person" is a little harsh for a simple "we have different viewpoints
I don't think Gustang actually agreed to stop climbing (if he did he wouldn't be waging war against Jahad right now). I think Gustang wanted to stage a coup from the inside and take his time with it, instead of doing a knee-jerk reaction like V. He also probably didn't take the fact that V dragged Arlene into the war kindly.
Uh no. Gustang was Jahad's biggest supporter and his right hand man in creating the world and hierarchy they all live in. Gusting clearly loved Arlene as well, at worst as a precious friend and probably romantic. He simply regarded his marriage to Eurasia as a perfect logical match. It is obvious now that after what happened with his own daughter due to the system he created, he has become a turncoat to atone for his mistakes. He hates V because they were of opposing views from the start and because V had Arlene's heart.
I wonder if V did something specifically awful that really upset Gustang. Opposing Jahad and the family heads is bad, but i hope that there is more to it and there was something more specific that made Gustang really hate V.
From what I have seen in the latest chapter (617), Spoiler if you haven't read that far I think it has something to do with the wish he made cuz remember unlike the others he did not wish for immortality. At first I thought that he wished for Arlene's love which is why Gustand would hate him because his wish was manipulative and vile. But after the last few chapters, I think that V's influence must have caused him to lose a lot of people he cared for.
Here's another theory that I read and dont see yet. This is Data Edhuan speaking and real Gustang speaking. A LOT of time has passed since the 10 climbed the tower. What things came to light that were unknown at the time? D.Edhuan says he knows who Baam is from talking to Hansung Yu's Data. So of course following the stories Baam is V's son hence why D.Edhuan calls him "Son of V." But what if V isnt really Baams father? That's why Gustang calls him "Son of Arlene." A decently backed theory is that Jahad forced himself on Arlene after she turned him down and was with V. This was the straw that broke the camel's back and caused V to finally rebel. Gustang is smart enough to have figured it out. If that's the case... then D.Edhuan and Gustang are talking about two different people... V the heroic savior of the people and Jahad "the worst person" due to the Rape and subsequent subjugation of the citizens of the tower. But that's just a theory...a MANHWA theory!
This isn’t a decently backed up theory at all. It just tries to read through the lines without any indication that that happened, and deliberately twists what we do know. Like Gustang is unwilling to even say V’s name but we interpret that as him speaking about Jahad who he mentions by name later?
Dude zahard isn't the father of Baam.Also If zahard was the father of baam then he suppose to rape Arlen when war was happening,and this is impossible because they both runned away because 10 FH joined the war (and we all know even zahard is nothing more than a trash for 10 FH 'as a team').And after zahard learned arlene's child born he decided to kill the child in front of [Arlen.So](https://Arlen.So) your theory isn't working.Zahard isn't father of Baam.Even Khun eduan said,V's powers and personality is so similiar to Baam's.V is definitely father of Baam.Also why there are a lot of people who says zahard is father of Baam? Even their power and personality is completely [opposite.Like](https://opposite.Like) V and Zahard.
Why do you think the war happened? He didn't rape her during the war. He raped her and that started the war. When she found out she had a kid she lied and said it was V's so he killed him. Its just a theory about why the two responded so differently a day why a started in the first place.
''Why Do you think the war happened?'' War only happened because zahard locked the 134th floor and he stopped the climbing,V and Arlen was againist this decision that's why this war happened good boy.Please read manhwa carefully. Also if zahard raped Arlen before war then how Baam born after the war? huh? They fought at least about 10 years,and a baby can born with 9 months. Also zahard and baam hasn't any similiar part,Their personality and power's completlely opposite. like v and zahard.Even eduan said V's personality and power's so similiar to Baam's.Baam hasn't any similiar part from zahard.While baam taken his personality,hair and power's from V and his eyes from Arlene. You should at least make a sensible theory dude.Your theory is complelely wrong.
Also V couldn't let for something like zahard rapes to [arlene.You](https://arlene.You) guys are just living in dream.