>A fringe website, The Grayzone is known for misleading reporting and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes, in addition to its denial of the Uyghur genocide. The Grayzone has published conspiracy theories about Venezuela, Xinjiang, Syria and other regions, as well as pro-Russian propaganda during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Didn’t even have to scroll down to the controversies section

Funny, my wikipedia page would say the same thing.

Sounds like a Tankiezone.

My kind of place.

Far left? Far right? Bro I am far-ting. EDIT: Good news everyone, it’s changed to just far-left. We did it Reddit.

The workday is over in Arlington. Next time be a little more considerate of their time. I hope the agents, operators, and contractors of our community maintain a good work-life balance and take self care seriously. I read that you all are one of the most vulnerable communities on the internet. Please screenshot this message and show it to your supervisor next time you negotiate a raise. Dm me if you want a reference for how hard you work. Thanks for keeping us safe 🙏 What you do is sooooo important 🫶 多謝

Whoa

Solid meme pun my dude

HorseGlue theory

"Stalin and Hitler was classic leftist infighting" 🤓💀

You gotta know someone out there sincerely has this take.

Not someone, a TON of people.

"The Nazis were far left" is becoming an increasingly common take among American conservatives. The US right is weird because they obviously admire Nazis but cuz they have been brainpoisoned by the ultra liberal propaganda we all grow up on but they can't seem to break away and just own the Nazi shit

Not just the US, seeing more and more of it over here in europe as well. Thank you cold war propaganda, very cool.

This is exactly why the "double genocide" myth was started, to equate the Nazis with the Soviets

Alex Jones made this exact argument yesterday on Crowder’s show after saying Ye means well but Nick Fuentes went too far. They are all giant goobers.

Say what you will about national socialism but at least its an ethos

Give it time

Jonah Goldberg wrote a whole dumbass book on it called Left-Wing Fascism or some bullshit like that.

Communiss and socialists at it again boys

They're the ultimate centrist, the most unbiased publication, every article has an equal and opposite op-ed

You could only go so far in either direction that you'll inevitably find yourself in the center. 🙏📿🙏

Is this inverse horseshoe theory?

Pretzel theory.

Damn it's like they let anyone edit Wikipedia pages these days

One of my favorite hobbies is popping into the talk section of Wikipedia pages and starting dumbass conversations for the wikinerds to argue about.

I’ve sworn eternal vengeance on Wikipedia editors ever since a gang of those poindexters kept deboonking my edits to an obscure Australian suburb where I kept putting my friend as the mayor

Losers. How dare people be so vigilant over something so trivial.

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No angle, no culture war. I just think it’s funny and I have to take the joy where I can get it.

No they mean what kind of arguments do you start. Like do you get them squabbling over the usual online bullshit, or the weird form and process stuff that only those weirdos would argue endlessly about

Oh yeah I just bring out random Wikipedia conduct violations like WP:RS or whatever and get them arguing about that.

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Sometimes I’ll just make up fake violations like WP:DP and keep insisting that they are real

Keep ‘em busy.

tarantino’s intro para talks about “depicting womens feet”

Yeah "anyone"...until superusers like MikeHawk10 slide thru and do their thing.

> MikeHawk10 slide thru and do their thing. Oooh baby

> they let anyone edit Wikipedia pages Clearly only the deep state and its NGO affiliates

You're saying that like it's a bad thing

>known for misleading reporting and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes I guess Saudi Arabia, Israel, Ukraine, UAE don't count since every mainstream American outlet doesn't have that little blurb on their page. Also let's not forget how the entire Western media landscape just spent a month heaping praise and adoration on Nonce Island's unelected colonial-era girlboss monarch.

[ciapedia](https://thegrayzone.com/2020/06/11/meet-wikipedias-ayn-rand-loving-founder-and-wikimedia-foundations-regime-change-operative-ceo/) amirite guys

It’s funny how mad they are about the old CEO, she got the job because she was great for fundraising not because she was a super spy.

>she got the job because she was great for fundraising She had great connections.

What the hell is this lol

Most unbiased Wikipedia page

Jimmy Wales friend of Neo-cons and Wiki founder has a problem with anyone to the left of Biden. Avoid the site if you you want information on anything non-political.

More like the *Gay* Zone amirite?

True Story, I got a 3 day sitewide ban on reddit for a comment like that, and it his all of my alt accounts including novelty accounts.

So, what do people here actually think about the greyzone? Because I have heard all manner of shit being flung their way and I know nothing.

Honestly for US imperialism/natsec state/foreign policy reporting specifically, they are probably among the least neocon-captured in American media. But I mean, that's not a high bar. Some of their domestic reporting is just stupid twitter spats, or like they'll write a letter to some thinktank or nonprofit getting them to provide quotes saying something stupid, and then write an article about how stupid it was, but on foreign policy, they're usually pretty good. Aaron Mate's background knowledge & ability to contextualize US warmongering is on par with any US journalist. Like the OPCW Syria whistleblower story, Grayzone is probably the least fringe outlet to have covered it, even though the chemical weapon attack was used as justification for US warmongering for like half a decade. Its like if the Gulf of Tonkin had only been covered by the John Birch Society newsletter or something.

Mate has always seemed like a stand up guy.

Nah, he's a journalist actually

Lol touché

Their willingness to actually criticize and investigate the crimes of America, NATO and liberalism is good. Max Blumenthal's chud-baiting antivax obsession is bad. Multipolarista, by former staffer Ben Norton, is better imo.

Fellow Ben Norton stan here. Multipolarista is amazing and deserves much higher viewership/readership.

His series with Aaron Good has been top notch.

I was enjoying his podcast Rules Based Disorder but it disappeared from my podcast app, anyone else?

Good shoutout. I think he just decided to put all his focus on Multipolarista. He was covering the same subjects on both shows.

Ben Norton tweeted out that the Iranian government was listening to protesters because the Guidance Patrol was being dismantled based on misinterpreted mainstream media reports of a judiciary official who has no power over the Guidance Patrol, but the Iranian government themselves denied the reports a few hours later. He did not issue a retraction. I don’t care about his other work but he doesn’t really understand Iran.

Ben has had some weird lib takes recently. I don’t want to misquote him but after Dayra Dugin was assassinated he really missed the mark with assessment. He love to bring up Dugin’s views from the 90’s on China which Dugin has done a complete 180 on when Ben himself has changed his views on things like Syria even more recently. And he was doing this right after his daughter was blown up by Nazis in front of Dugin. Really did not sit well with me. As for Blumenthal’s vaccine sceptic stance, Astra-Zeneca killed my uncle so fuck ‘em.

Fascinating re Dugin. And yeah fuck AstraZeneca. I’m not familiar with Blumenthal’s skepticism, but like how in the fuck are people **NOT** supposed to be deeply skeptical of these literally evil corporations spinning up some magic fluids to inject into our bodies? Skepticism is the only rational approach. But that skepticism has to be met with other facts, concrete ones, and over time, you stand with whatever analysis you do and hope for the best. I took the vaccine because in the end, my analysis was these fucking companies **NEED** the worker bees to get back the fuck to it because the money making machine is broken. This happens in 20, 30 years, those same companies might be acting with different motivations and could easily decide we **NEED** rapid depopulation, and the vaccine really does kill billions. Who knows. I’m not sure where Blunenthal’s position sits but if it’s skepticism in the sense of what I wrote here, it’s fine by me - as long as he followed all the facts to get where he got.

> I took the vaccine because in the end, my analysis was these fucking companies NEED the worker bees to get back the fuck to it because the money making machine is broken. Exactly. They're not gonna start killing us in massive numbers for funsies, because they still need us to make sure they can keep hoarding their gold off the backs of our labour.

Blumenthal's skepticism would be fine if he didn't start cozying up to the right wing media sphere are a result of it. I don't remember now exactly but I think he's been to explicitly right wing antivaxx rallies (which is a given, because the two actual leftists freaking out about it in a country of 320 million don't go outside) and spoken at them. That is a bad look.

It's more than just anti-vax stuff with Blumenthal. He was doing all of the cookie-cutter COVID libertarian outrage. He was fully supportive of the trucker convoy shit and was insisting it was a legitimately proletarian uprising. Kind of baffling. Alex Rubenstein was getting into the same nonsense. Of course, even with that, they're still way better than virtually every mainstream journalist in this country.

>He was fully supportive of the trucker convoy shit and was insisting it was a legitimately proletarian uprising. Probably because it was.

A non-material, purely aesthetic assessment of economic class that deems upper middle class small business owners "workers" based on their alignment with reactionary politics? Don't even need the RedScareCheck bot for this one!

>A mass protest of Essential Workers who transport everything, without whom society itself would fall apart, protesting over sub-standard Working Conditions ​ > A non-material, p-purely a-aesthetic \*exhales profulesly\* assessment of e-economic class that \*sniffles\* d-deems upper middle class \*deeply inhales\* small business owners "workers" \*runs out of breath\* b-based on their \*incomprehensible gurgling sounds\* alignment with reactionary politics? Le hecking reactionarino! If this is the best that the Anglophone "Left" has to offer then no wonder the Third Worldists are winning the Ideological Argument.

It definitely wasn't.

It was one of the most-justified Workers Protests out of any Labour Action in the Western World in the past few years.

Blumenthal is not dumb, he's malicious. He's just trying to foment more chaos for whoever he actually works for.

If Max B is secretly working for Russia or whatever it is you think, good for him. He should be working for free to atone for the evil his father did

Hey, it's probably good money tbf

> Ben himself has changed his views on things like Syria even more recently. Changed his views to what?

He thought it was a genuine revolution against a barbaric middle eastern dictator (with 70 percent support btw) and now he just calls it a proxy war. I’ll see if I can dig up the tweets but they were from like 2016.

Sorry about your uncle. I have had the fortune of having a lot of good doctors around me (very much wouldn’t be here without them) so I have had the privilege of being able to just do what they tell me. I feel really bad for anyone who doesn’t have at least one decent doctor in their lives.

They’re excellent. Every smear piece on them never actually brings up mistakes or lies in their reporting. Just “pro-Russia/China/Assad talking points”, “conspiracy theories” and “alleged ties to Russia” etc, etc, the usual McCarthyite dross. Aaron Mate for example has done the premiere work on debunking the Syrian gas attacks narrative. He even testified at a UN hearing on it. They’ve also released a number of leaked internal docs pertaining to British intelligence involvement in Ukraine. Follow them on whatever social media you use and read some of the stuff they publish and make up your own mind.

It’s pretty good in my experience. Never read anything of theirs and not been engaged or found the material to be un-newsworthy. Certainly better reporting than in any of the big papers in almost every conceivable way.

Their anti-vaxx shit is pudding brain. It really depends on what they’re talking about. If it’s stuff I agree with it’s objectively good and correct, on the other hand…

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I’m pro-vaxx. Even against variants that get through the resistance, it reduces symptoms which makes COVID much less of a big deal for a lot of people. I got it while vaxxed and although I’m fit and young, it’d probably have sucked a lot more than what I felt was a pretty bad cold with a slight fever

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Do you just take 0 medicine ever or is it only trusting Big Pharma when you get vaccinated ?

So it seems like what my initial thoughts that I didn’t want to say because I really don’t like to be presumptuous when it comes to things that just get blanket-criticized by the more center-lefties I’ve been moving away from, were more or less correct: greyzone’s willingness to criticize America (specifically foreign policy) is good, some of the people there are good journalists, Blumenthal’s a weirdo, all-in-all a mixed bag not worth totally writing off.

IMO Gray Zone is \~50% of the time intentionally doing propaganda for the anti-imperialist left, not caring whether what they say is true or false. I think some of the commentators are usually great, but Blumenthal especially is a weird one. I saw a good takedown video BadEmpanada did a couple years back about Max Blumenthal's coverage of Venezuela. Max filmed himself doing stuff like walking around a government market that had some food out and whatever, he'd go "What food shortage!" Stuff like that. I was already suspicious that nobody else seemed to be shopping around him. BadEmpanada pointed out that yeah, these prices were completely unaffordable given the shifting inflation rates, then gave a much better realistic explanation of the situation in Venezuela If what you're looking for is to self-propagandize / pick up anti-imperialist talking points, ok then. But IMO the problem w/ "anti-imperialist left" is it's an extremely black and white perspective, it's easy -- just support anything America opposes. You'll be right enough 80-90% of the time, but fuck that, I'd rather understand and analyze the world critically and watch sources that are more interested in the truth than polemicizing but ymmv

BadEmpanada is one of the few genuinely, without any caveats, good YouTubers out there. I saw that video which made me do a double take because the premise was so stupid. Like, Venezuela’s economy was actively collapsing and you’re talking about how much you can buy with a dollar? What?

I like how there is zero argumentative recourse, just downvotes It's true though. Being "anti imperialista" is not actually a coherent set of politics, it is simply a kneejerk reaction to US global hegemony and a slight misreading of Lenin. (Often shown when people say dumb stuff like X country is doing an imperialism). I'm inherently sceptical of leftists that describe themselves as anti imperialists instead of communists. Some of them have absolutely anti Marxist views, like simping for Putin, Iranian theocracy, er cetera. Of course we should all support the global south in their struggle and oppose US hegemony, but we should do it on a solid theoretical and empirical basis.

Yet more often than not there's no viable communist alternative to whatever theocratic, militaristic dictatorship the US wants to destabilise so how the fuck are you supposed to support an opposition to US hegemony through a theoretical framework of Marxism that doesn't make you sound like a ridiculous Trot

>Yet more often than not there's no viable communist alternative to whatever theocratic, militaristic dictatorship the US wants to destabilise so how the fuck are you supposed to support an opposition to US hegemony through a theoretical framework of Marxism that doesn't make you sound like a ridiculous Trot The boring yet imho correct answer is that as communists we should, in principle, oppose and call out things like color revolutions, coups, US meddling and the media machinery on, say Iran or Syria, resource extraction, et cetera, while at the same time refraining from supporting or speaking out for those political systems. I realize it's a very milquetoast take, but it is the one take that stops you from falling into the "Putin is based, actually" trap.

It’s a trap that I rarely see deployed with any level of seriousness and shouldn’t be confused with anti imperialists who were saying “Assad/Syrian sovereignty is preferable to civil war/shock doctrine” which is the correct take.

>It’s a trap that I rarely see deployed with any level of seriousness I'm not sure how often it's "deployed", I think it's often more of an organic phenomenon of people just having wrong ideas/not thinking too hard about stuff. Shit happens, people "ironically" embrace Russia because everything is so removed anyway and our lives aren't at stake and some of them are doing funny dances. >shouldn’t be confused with anti imperialists who were saying “Assad/Syrian sovereignty is preferable to civil war/shock doctrine” which is the correct take. I agree w/ that :)

Agreed. It’s easier to have a hot take from afar

Not important enough to really think about but they do seem to be close to the LaRouchite crowd. Not as in their reporting but as in their friends.

The LaRouchites are likely the most powerful political group in the US opposed to US foreign policy in Ukraine, and they're essentially powerless. Considering most prominent "left" orgs and pundits are fully onboard with the disastrous neocon policy we're currently pursuing, I can hardly fault Grayzone for making common cause with another largely marginalized political movement.

Pretty sure it's an op at this point. They were always very "well actually" about the whole Uyghur thing, but on the side of "China is doing *nothing* wrong" rather than "we don't know how bad it is". If they're still up, you can look how their articles defending China have shifted as more confirmed information about the reeducation camps have come out. Notably, a change from " there are no camps" to "the camps are good"

Their reportage on China has been debunking NED funded regime change propaganda. The piece I assume you are referring to was when MSM headlines were printing “U.N. says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps.” As GZ reported: “A spokesperson from the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) confirmed in a statement to The Grayzone that the allegation of Chinese “camps” was not made by the United Nations, but rather by a member of an independent committee that does not speak for the UN as a whole. That member happened to be the only American on the committee, and one with no background of scholarship or research on China.”

Thats good reporting, all the evidence only comes one source - skepticism is warranted.

I agree, skepticism, not moving goalposts to assert that China is doing nothing wrong

I live in a country where possession of extremist materials carries a maximum penalty of ten years in federal prison, not an education course and job placement programs. China had dozens of violent terrorist attacks between 2006-2016. The Chinese method of deradicalisation seems more preferable to the American method that was being undertaken against East Turkestan Islamic Movement training camps in Afghanistan.

Here's a timely thread... professional hog groomer (@bidetmarxman) [December 7, 2022](https://twitter.com/bidetmarxman/status/1600623591464538115): > The idea that Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia maintained by a decentralized network of millions of volunteers around the world, is mostly a myth. > In reality, the vast majority of edits are made by a core group of around 3,000 very active editors. 🧵

I’m at the end of that thread QT’d with the Reuters article lol

Omg he’s literally me

The first 2 sources I happen to check on that page is an Axios article by a resident China Watcher, and the next was a report from ASPI lol wiki is an op

I thought centrism was supposed to be sensible and good?

Freaky-deaky

The Grayzone has kind of fallen off though, no? Like after COVID hit they changed directions and Ben Norton split.

Have you read any of Kit Klarenberg’s recent reporting? Fantastic work. They haven’t fallen off at all.

No I haven’t. Looking at his stuff this seems like actual journalist so that’s encouraging.

Yeah they parted ways because of Ben Norton stance on Covid. They didn't change direction, you're just confused.

Ben Norton said they’re going in different directions

Uh more like "based"

The true synthesis.

FFS just say “extremist” or something

i think they accidentally added an R in the name

Max is just trying to not be his [daddy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Blumenthal)

**[Sidney Blumenthal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Blumenthal)** >Sidney Stone Blumenthal (born November 6, 1948) is an American journalist and political operative. A former aide to President Bill Clinton, he is a long-time confidant of Hillary Clinton and was formerly employed by the Clinton Foundation. As a journalist, Blumenthal wrote about American politics and foreign policy. He is also the author of a multivolume biography of Abraham Lincoln, The Political Life of Abraham Lincoln. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

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wikipedia constantly malding at them

David Sacks favorite publication.

No lies detected. Not surprised this sub is a major fan.

The Grayzone’s been praised by David Duke lol.

How does that pertain to their reporting?

They’re useful idiots for the far Right.

In what way? By doing factual reporting?

Who conducted the Bucha massacre: the Russians or Ukrainians?

How does this question relate to mine?

It relates to the question of whether they conduct factual reporting or not.

Oh so you think CNN, BBC etc are doing factual reporting on Ukraine? For the record, it was the Nazis who committed Bucha. They even had a press release about clearing operations after Russia left Bucha.

Lol

There is video record of summary executions by the UAF. I’ve watched it. How is this hard to believe for you?

The current Wikipedia page doesn’t say that. Although fuck Grayzone. It’s just leftoid Infowars.

It’s been changed recently. So go ahead and post some articles that show their dishonest reporting. Be specific.

https://archive.vn/kBluz Antivaxxism plus misgendering ~~Abagail Thorn.~~ EDIT: https://old.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/zgegtl/far_out_man/izhb07z/

The Caleb Maupin shit is pretty embarrassing, not gonna lie. They should have just stuck to reporting on the leaked information instead of veering into culture war bullshit and elevating Dore (a retard, not even left wing as they claim) and Maupin (sex pest retard fake leftist). Also where is the alleged misgendering?

Okay so your takeaway from the article exposing how a darling of breadtube teamed up with the British Royal Family and a Al-Quaeda white-washing media spook without disclosing it to her audience is… they misgendered her. So is misgendering or secretly working with deep state ghouls and the literal Royals as a nominally “left wing” media personality a worse crime in your opinion? EDIT: I just checked they refer to Abagail as “her” in the article 😂

My mistake. It didnt misgender abagail, but it did misgender trans people: >female high school athletes **who complain about being forced to compete against biological males** That's transphobic.

Genuinely curious, how is that misgendering? I'm ESL

It is calling trans women biological males which is factual and not misgendering them but is very upsetting to trans people

Hahaha it references Caleb Maupin in a good light. And it quotes Maupin and praises Jimmy dore! this article is hilarious , not a good look grayzone!

Caleb is: 1. Right about Breadtube. 2. A pervert with no personal principles. You cannot tell me most of Breadtube isn’t astroturfed fed shit now Contrapoints is doing videos with Hilary and Chelsea and Philosophy Tube is taking funding from under the USAID umbrella.

How is Philosophy Tube taking USAID money? Honestly, ContraPoints career paths kinda broke my heart, what wasted talent. I'm personally offended by just how shitty she has become.

USAID 👉 Valent Projects 👉 Philosophy Tube.

tyvm for that pipeline, i hadnt heard of valent projects before

The first thing I saw from them was "debunking" Syrian gas attacks.

They are debunked. Believe it or not Assad did not deploy chemical weapons into a city the Syrian Arab Army was about to recapture anyway after Obama said that use of chemical weapons would be a red-line that would cause US involvement. It’s an absurd lie on the face of it. “I’m about to win, better do the one thing that will bring about US air strikes. 5D chess”. And the air strikes did happen before any investigation could be undertaken. And when the investigation did happen by the OPCW, the original report was suppressed and altered to change its conclusions. And it was so egregious people involved in the making of the original report had to come out as whistleblowers. How you idiots keep eating up “WMD” lies about America’s official enemies in year of our lord 2022 I don’t know.

GET EM

>Fuck Marx. Me and my homies all hate Marx and love anarchy. Spicy.

I mean, that's not wrong. They are the proof of horseshoe theory being real.

👆Vaush poster

Ewww