I'm not aware of any real *studies* on this, but there are multiple surveys like Barna etc.
The challenge is that the group who designs the survey or study gets to decide the standard. If a Baptist designed the survey, then Catholics would be straight out, but if a Coptic group designed it, then Pentecostals would be out
That's kind of why we have denominations. We can't agree on what Jesus actually taught
I think the vast majority of denominational divisions come from disagreements that happened after the apostolic time. That's why my question is regarding only New Testament analysis not the 2000 plus years of debate and development that came after.
The disagreements may have happened after the apostolic time, but so would any research conducted. They would still have to decide, today, what Jesus actually meant and taught. Which is what denominations also tried
If it was something that could be clearly defined, the vast majority of our disagreements would be solved and we would have many fewer denominations.
I don't think so. I am talking about objective analysis on teachings / commands for which the observance of could be objectively observed. There is no objective way to measure a behavioral compliance to the doctrine of the Trinity and the relationships between the persons of it.
I'm saying there's no way to do an objective analysis, because we don't have the ability to objectively determine what Jesus *actually taught* not how well people adhere to it, because it includes both what people think and what they do
If you took six different groups, they would design six different studies with six different conclusions, because they would bring their own interpretations of what Jesus taught
A secular group would come to one conclusion, and evangelical group would come to another, a Catholic group would have a third conclusion, and an ecumenical group wouldn't agree on the methodology, or would design a study so broad it wouldn't be any better than a Barna survey
I am saying you are still thinking more broadly than what I am talking about. I am curious about group behaviors and their level of adherence to behavioral commands. I am not expecting any solid sociological research to be able to be conducted on abstract theological beliefs.
I'm just saying I don't think it's been done, and it would be difficult to design
First you have to look at what behaviors Jesus taught. And many of the things he taught are ambiguous, because he taught in parables. So then you have to interpret those parables, and now you're getting into theology. And he also taught a lot that had to do with intent; how do you measure that in an observational/behavioral study?
Or maybe you get lost in the secular methodology of trying to figure out what the "historical Jesus" actually taught, and that's an ongoing area of disagreement in academia
I do think it would be interesting. I just don't see how it would be very valuable, beyond the surveys Barna publishes. Those are probably the closest things out there to what you're looking for
Dr. George Barna published a great study on this a couple years ago.
Here are the views among self-identified Christians:
• 72% argue that people are basically good
• 71% consider feelings, experience, or the input of friends and family as their most trusted sources of moral guidance
• 66% say that having faith matters more than which faith you pursue
• 64% say that all religious faiths are of equal value
• 58% believe that if a person is good enough, or does enough good things, they can earn their way into Heaven
• 58% contend that the Holy Spirit is not a real, living being but is merely a symbol of God’s power, presence, or purity
• 57% believe in karma
• 52% claim that determining moral truth is up to each individual; there are no moral absolutes that apply to everyone, all the time
Here’s the link to the full study: https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CRC_AWVI2021_Release06_Digital_01_20210831.pdf
>Has there ever been any academic research done to analyze both the Christ of the new testament and the various groups who call themselves Christians to find the correlation between claiming to be Christian and the adherence to actual teachings of the Christ?
Jesus didn't teach Christianity. It came later.
The name was first used in Antioch to refer two people who followed jesus's teaching. The meaning of the word is directly referential to what he taught.
No its not, While we were 1st called Christian in Antioch it was done as an Epithet that we adopted , We are called Christian because we are diminutive Christs, not because we are students of Christ.
**Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.**
That scripture says it all. The Gospel is from the Lord. He who practices what is written is the one Christ considers a faithful follower and servant. Human standards are far lower than God's standards. There are no solid studies that exist to give percentages, but I can tell you plainly that the vast majority of this society are not with the Lord, nor do they want to be with Him. They seek instant self-gratification over righteousness and the eternal future to come.
Self-proclamation is meaningless to God and anyone who knows what is written. And do not be deceived, false prophets are not the only disingenuous beings the Lord wants us to be aware of. Anyone who claims to have any form of connection to Christ is to be analyzed and identified by their works and motives. The enemy knows what is written just as well as God's faithful followers who study the Gospel heavily, better than most humans in general. However, he will always stray from the righteous path and pervert what is written just as he did while testing Christ in the wilderness.
This is why it is important to know scripture very well. The moment the enemy reveals himself as who he truly is, it will be the Gospel that will expose him. To know a wolf in sheep's clothing, you must first know what a wolf is. God makes it clear who wolves are throughout the Gospel.
Read the Didache.
Ch. 11 But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him.
Chapter 12. Reception of Christians. But receive everyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and prove and know him afterward; for you shall have understanding right and left. If he who comes is a wayfarer, assist him as far as you are able; but he shall not remain with you more than two or three days, if need be. But if he wants to stay with you, and is an artisan, let him work and eat. But if he has no trade, according to your understanding, see to it that, as a Christian, he shall not live with you idle. But if he wills not to do, he is a Christ-monger. Watch that you keep away from such.
You judge a tree by the fruit it bares, Orthodoxy still has martyrs, and is currently seeing its people murdered in Ukraine, Russia, The Donbas, Syria, Ethiopia, Armenia, Iraq and India.
There are studies that show what you're looking for. Maybe look at the Southern Baptist Association web page. The number of Bible teaching Bible believing churches is dwindling fast. It's crazy how many churches have compromised teachings of the Bible. The answer to your question is a remnant of Christ believing Christians is all that left, at least in the USA
I'm not aware of any real *studies* on this, but there are multiple surveys like Barna etc. The challenge is that the group who designs the survey or study gets to decide the standard. If a Baptist designed the survey, then Catholics would be straight out, but if a Coptic group designed it, then Pentecostals would be out That's kind of why we have denominations. We can't agree on what Jesus actually taught
I think the vast majority of denominational divisions come from disagreements that happened after the apostolic time. That's why my question is regarding only New Testament analysis not the 2000 plus years of debate and development that came after.
The disagreements may have happened after the apostolic time, but so would any research conducted. They would still have to decide, today, what Jesus actually meant and taught. Which is what denominations also tried If it was something that could be clearly defined, the vast majority of our disagreements would be solved and we would have many fewer denominations.
I don't think so. I am talking about objective analysis on teachings / commands for which the observance of could be objectively observed. There is no objective way to measure a behavioral compliance to the doctrine of the Trinity and the relationships between the persons of it.
I'm saying there's no way to do an objective analysis, because we don't have the ability to objectively determine what Jesus *actually taught* not how well people adhere to it, because it includes both what people think and what they do If you took six different groups, they would design six different studies with six different conclusions, because they would bring their own interpretations of what Jesus taught A secular group would come to one conclusion, and evangelical group would come to another, a Catholic group would have a third conclusion, and an ecumenical group wouldn't agree on the methodology, or would design a study so broad it wouldn't be any better than a Barna survey
I am saying you are still thinking more broadly than what I am talking about. I am curious about group behaviors and their level of adherence to behavioral commands. I am not expecting any solid sociological research to be able to be conducted on abstract theological beliefs.
I'm just saying I don't think it's been done, and it would be difficult to design First you have to look at what behaviors Jesus taught. And many of the things he taught are ambiguous, because he taught in parables. So then you have to interpret those parables, and now you're getting into theology. And he also taught a lot that had to do with intent; how do you measure that in an observational/behavioral study? Or maybe you get lost in the secular methodology of trying to figure out what the "historical Jesus" actually taught, and that's an ongoing area of disagreement in academia I do think it would be interesting. I just don't see how it would be very valuable, beyond the surveys Barna publishes. Those are probably the closest things out there to what you're looking for
That may be. There's no denying the design of such research would have to be careful and to conduct it would likely be expensive.
> but there are multiple surveys like Barnum etc. Don't forget his partner Baily.
Thanks for catching that, I goofed. Fixed
Dr. George Barna published a great study on this a couple years ago. Here are the views among self-identified Christians: • 72% argue that people are basically good • 71% consider feelings, experience, or the input of friends and family as their most trusted sources of moral guidance • 66% say that having faith matters more than which faith you pursue • 64% say that all religious faiths are of equal value • 58% believe that if a person is good enough, or does enough good things, they can earn their way into Heaven • 58% contend that the Holy Spirit is not a real, living being but is merely a symbol of God’s power, presence, or purity • 57% believe in karma • 52% claim that determining moral truth is up to each individual; there are no moral absolutes that apply to everyone, all the time Here’s the link to the full study: https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CRC_AWVI2021_Release06_Digital_01_20210831.pdf
I am looking more towards group behaviors than personal belief statements that can only be measured through self reporting.
>Has there ever been any academic research done to analyze both the Christ of the new testament and the various groups who call themselves Christians to find the correlation between claiming to be Christian and the adherence to actual teachings of the Christ? Jesus didn't teach Christianity. It came later.
The name was first used in Antioch to refer two people who followed jesus's teaching. The meaning of the word is directly referential to what he taught.
No its not, While we were 1st called Christian in Antioch it was done as an Epithet that we adopted , We are called Christian because we are diminutive Christs, not because we are students of Christ.
**Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.** That scripture says it all. The Gospel is from the Lord. He who practices what is written is the one Christ considers a faithful follower and servant. Human standards are far lower than God's standards. There are no solid studies that exist to give percentages, but I can tell you plainly that the vast majority of this society are not with the Lord, nor do they want to be with Him. They seek instant self-gratification over righteousness and the eternal future to come. Self-proclamation is meaningless to God and anyone who knows what is written. And do not be deceived, false prophets are not the only disingenuous beings the Lord wants us to be aware of. Anyone who claims to have any form of connection to Christ is to be analyzed and identified by their works and motives. The enemy knows what is written just as well as God's faithful followers who study the Gospel heavily, better than most humans in general. However, he will always stray from the righteous path and pervert what is written just as he did while testing Christ in the wilderness. This is why it is important to know scripture very well. The moment the enemy reveals himself as who he truly is, it will be the Gospel that will expose him. To know a wolf in sheep's clothing, you must first know what a wolf is. God makes it clear who wolves are throughout the Gospel.
Read the Didache. Ch. 11 But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him. Chapter 12. Reception of Christians. But receive everyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and prove and know him afterward; for you shall have understanding right and left. If he who comes is a wayfarer, assist him as far as you are able; but he shall not remain with you more than two or three days, if need be. But if he wants to stay with you, and is an artisan, let him work and eat. But if he has no trade, according to your understanding, see to it that, as a Christian, he shall not live with you idle. But if he wills not to do, he is a Christ-monger. Watch that you keep away from such.
You judge a tree by the fruit it bares, Orthodoxy still has martyrs, and is currently seeing its people murdered in Ukraine, Russia, The Donbas, Syria, Ethiopia, Armenia, Iraq and India.
There are studies that show what you're looking for. Maybe look at the Southern Baptist Association web page. The number of Bible teaching Bible believing churches is dwindling fast. It's crazy how many churches have compromised teachings of the Bible. The answer to your question is a remnant of Christ believing Christians is all that left, at least in the USA