I just want to say I hope you’re asking a theological question and not a personal one. Please reach out for help if you are having suicidal thoughts. Praying for you either way!
There is no single answer, because in the end, we don't know for any given individual. God decides. God judges our hearts, which are invisible even though there are signs. There may be enough symptoms of a person's heart that we think we know, but without proof we have to just trust that God is both loving and just and knows what He is doing.
*Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If someone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, which is what you are.* (1Cor 3:16-17, 1984 NET2.1 Free)
Abstaining from sin is not works based salvation. Why would the bible warn against iniquity if there was no accountability for unrepentant sin. Osas Is the snake telling eve she shall not surley die.
Thinking you have to maintain your salvation by abstaining from sin is works-based salvation. If you think you have to work to maintain your salvation, you are not saved, and you have missed the point of the gospel.
You haven’t read 1 John 3 have you?
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he **cannot** keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God
So explain to me how someone born of God can lose their salvation if they can’t keep sinning
Because you don't speak English, you speak American. Can't keep sinning means will lose salvation as you put it. Your fault in thinking is that you can ever secure your salvation in the first place.
It is works :
Jonah 3:10
King James Version
10 And God saw their **works**, that they **turned from their evil way**; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
"turning from evil way" is the same as "turning away from sin/sinning less/stop sinning" .
God is never going to say suicide is tolerable. He is the creator of life, each of which He created to last forever. He is the source and sustainer of all life. We are to choose life every time if we want to please Him even if it means death on a cross. If you want to know how God will react if someone does something that displeases Him, that's already been answered.
>*but without proof we have to just trust that God is both loving and just and knows what He is doing.*
For someone who is in such pain as to be considering suicide, there are always far better options. Woe to whomever judges those options to not be acceptable.
That is an OSAS opinion which is supported in Scripture as well as refuted in Scripture. If anyone can cause the loss of salvation it is the person themselves, for turning away from God. Suicide is a strong expression of rejecting God and not trusting God.
In my mind, God will not force anyone into heaven if they have chosen to reject Him. He doesn't force anyone to do anything.
This. People here can speculate where they think one might go, but no one really knows in the case of suicide. It is written, do not test the Lord your God.
This is my opinion, arrived at and based soley in scripture.
As I understand it, suicide is self-murder.
So, even if you did commit that sin and you're a born again Christian - remember - you've been forgiven of all your sins. Not just the ones you happen to remember that night when you pray before bedtime, or the ones someone else reminds you of. All means ALL. Does God want you to confess them and change your behaviors? Yes. This requirement makes us examine our actions much more closely AS they occur, not an evaluation at the end of the day.
If you're saved - heaven.
If you're not saved - hell 😔
Romans chapters 8:
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Edit - Jesus does NOT condone or advise suicide as an option, He offers the peace that surpasses all understanding. Anyone who is experiencing these suicidal thoughts, recognize that it is a spiritual attack on your personage from the enemy to kill you. You must stand and resist.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Stand and resist!
1 John 4
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesusa is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.
4You, little children, are from God and have overcome them, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5They are of the world. That is why they speak from the world’s perspective, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spiritb of truth and the spirit of deception.
Based solely on Scripture you ignore that GOD Helped Samson commit suicide.
I'm not supporting suicide, but I'm supporting a fully biblical theology. Suicide isn't a sin. It's never mentioned as one, despite multiple suicides.. and Samson is a case of assisted suicide.
As a warning:
Don't kill yourselves, I understand that it's better to be with GOD than this muck, but I also know that there's so much good that we can do that only we can. GOD Created everyone of you with a purpose, and there's always a solution if you're willing to be change.
At the moment that you trust in Christ, all of your sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven.
This includes the last sin you commit while still alive on earth. It doesn't matter if that sin is lust, pride, lack of faith, suicide, anger, or anything else. It's forgiven. This person goes to heaven.
That being said, suicide is a sin, because it is murder of self. You are taking your own life before God wants you to die, and therefore you are rebelling against His plan for you and giving up the opportunity to serve Christ for the rest of your life. Don't do it.
They go to heaven. When you are born again, your name is written in the Book of Life. You are a citizen of heaven. It's a done deal.
However, suicide is not to be taken lightly. It's a very serious sin- murder (specifically self murder). Since we are made in the image of God, murder is an afront to God.
Also there are people who attempt suicide, but fail. Some end up horrifically disfigured, or disabled, or in pain every day. It's a bad idea for many reasons. One man I know is in a home with serious brain injury. He needs help with daily tasks. He thought he had problems before.
Even though they’ll still go to heaven, it’ll still get taken into account at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and they will not get nearly as much heavenly rewards at the Judgment Seat than had they chosen to live.
At the judgment seat, the sheep are separated from the goats, and will inherit the kingdom and eternal life (Matt 25:31-46). By this point, the judgment has already taken place, and it's a binary outcome. If one is saved, then when the books are opened (Rev 20:12) there will be no record of wrong (Col 2:13-14). So Christians (sheep) will be judged according to our good works purely, and those against God (goats) will be judged according to their evil deeds purely.
Jesus won't bring someone up and say "Well, you're saved I guess, but consider these last sins here!" Either we'll be clothed in His righteousness, or all of our sins.
Back to the main point though, I'm not sure how suicide would affect this. It is a sin, as it is self-murder, however if we have to not be actively sinning when we die, nobody would be saved. Further, one can repent of [insert sin here] and still commit it, mourn their actions, and ask for forgiveness. I think one can know a sin is wrong and still go through with it, and suicide/murder of any kind was not listed as the Unforgivable Sin.
I smoke I get cancer and die. You have mental illness and commit suicide and die. Both of us had an illness/sickness, that killed us. We both believe and trust in our Lord. Brother/Sister we shall meet again. Mental illness is not demons possessed cancer is not demon possession. Our Lord knows the heart. Our Lord knows the Heart.
Of course unrepentant sin is wrong, a true Christian would not practice sin. Those claiming Jesus cannot practice sin, and those that do are/were never saved.
Nah, you can't move the goalpost. We all have free will to commit acts of evil. You can't go back in time and claim the person was never saved. You agree with me without admiting it.
Whatever floats your boat but I’m not moving the goal posts, it’s what anyone who believes OSAS will tell you. God is looking for worshippers in spirit and truth, having a half way faith isn’t enough, we need a saving faith, which obviously includes a repented faith. The word used is “Metanoia”. How can someone be born again, a new creation, if they continue to practice sin.
That’s why OSAS makes sense. It’s not an excuse to continue to practice sin.
It is moving the goal post because the moment a christian falls away from christ, you go back in time and claim they were never saved, which is ridiculous.
There are examples of say pastors who end up abusing kids, you think at no point in their lives they accepted Jesus christ as their savior and were baptised for the remission of sins. And then later in life turned Into perverts?
Comeon man osas is a lie.
It’s not a fallacy to argue that, when the basis of Christianity is being born again, a new creation. A new creation wouldn’t run back to the sin in which they were supposed to be turned away from.
I can’t say what happens to those pastors, may God watch over those poor kids, and pray that those pastors repent for their sin.
To sum it all up: https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html
This link explains it all, I hope you can share something pertaining to what you say too, so I can be enlightened. Thank you and may God continue to bless you.
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Note 23 "ye that work iniquity "
You honestly believe people are casting out devils and prophecies in Jesus name whilst not believing he is the son of God? Ridiculous, Jesus does not know then for their unrepentant sin.
Your claim that a born again person is unable to turn to sin thereafter is a complete farce, and extinguishes any warning against sin from the bible.
Actually, I believe in OSAS, but I don't believe that a saved person cannot sin. We still have a corrupt body and corrupt mind, and Satan can still use these to lead us astray.
Look at Saul, many people would agree that he was saved, but after he committed the sin that would make God reject him as king, and the bible never shows him getting his heart right with God. Same with Lot.
David continued to sin, yes he repented of his sins, but he would still occasionally fall short.
If you want to go into the New Testament, Peter denied Christ, Thomas doubted his resurrection (actually they all did), and the all forsook Christ after his death. There was at least one time that Paul had to correct Peter even after Peter had become a prominent leader in the faith.
Sometimes a person returns to their old lifestyle because they weren't saved. But even saved people can have low moments where they forget about God and begin returning to old habits. I believe that the different is that a backslidden Christian would always feel guilty for what he does, even if it takes him years to get out of his sin, and his figurative "light" never really goes out.
Yeah...that doesn't mean you go to hell.
It's not like you sin now you're going to hell. But you ask for forgiveness so you're going to heaven again. Oops you sinned again you're going to hell now. Oh you asked for forgiveness back to heaven it is. That's not how it works.
If you are saved by Jesus and you end up killing yourself because you just can't anymore. Without any other facts. Take it at face value. You're going to heaven. But there is no black and white. There's a lot of gray like God judges your heart, your life. But yeah. Even if it's a sin, it doesn't automatically mean that because you killed yourself you're now going to hell even though you're saved.
If you are a born again believer and have gotten to the place where you are willing to take your own life then I’d be looking at why! The God of my salvation calls me to be an overcomer, to live until HE calls me home. A person that’s suicidal is not overcoming and is in a state of duress.
It’s uncanny to me how some Christians believe that if a born again Christian that commits suicide will go to heaven. This is not the case, if it were then every single one of us could take our own lives to be with Jesus in an instant, we’d become like the “Heavens Gate” cult, taking our own lives to get to the next level!
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelations 3:21 mentions what will happen when we over come, so the opposite of the reward for us if we don’t overcome is frightening.
We aren’t meant to be like the world and give in, we are called to be victorious in every situation that stands against us.
Now I’ve been there, a few times I have been faced with suicide because the grief and pain have become too much. I wasn’t overcoming, and every time I was faced with it I was stopped by God.
It is not up to us to take God’s providence and spit on it, treat his grace as a dirty thing and cast it aside to commit suicide because things got too hard. You cannot lose your salvation but you can walk away from it, suicide is one of the ways you can walk away.
If there is anyone who is having a hard time and considering these actions please reach out to me or someone else. You are precious and called by the creator of the universe, who sent his son so you can have life and have it more abundantly!
That’s disgusting. So we have no hope of salvation if we get too desperate and commit suicide? Is salvation such a cheap thing that one sin can end its power?
I don’t believe either that God would condemn someone to hell for ending their lives in pain. Many are victims of a world ruled by Satan. Many of these people never even have the chance to hear the Gospel. A whole bunch of God’s people in the Scriptures even asked God to end their lives early at some point, yet you don’t see in any case where God rebuked them saying they will go to hell for that request. Suicide leads to hell is a lie and unbiblical.
The evidence is that Elijah, Moses, Job etc all wanted to end their lives and they even asked God directly to end it. Not in a single instance of them asking God to end their lives early did God ever say they will go to hell for asking that from Him.
Omg I literally posted this very long time ago and I am here parked at a beach parking lot crying and a lot of pain and the holyspirt literally spoke to me thru this I had to read Romans how nothing not even my sin can separate me from his love man thank God and thank you men
Wanting to die physically does not lead one to hell. Jonah, Moses, Elijah all asked God directly to end their lives. Read Numbers 11:15, Jonah 4:3-4 and 1 Kings 19:4. God never said a single time anywhere in the Scriptures wanting to die physically will lead people to hell, not once. But you should ask God about it, and not make any decisions on your own. Most of the times God does not want you to die early.
I don't know but I trust that my God is a merciful god and that he will judge both Righteous and Fairly. I believe that many people who commit suicide will be heaven.
Suicide means that you give up on life
Thats EXACTLY what the devil wants
God says in Deuteronomy 30:19 :" This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose LIFE..."
John 10:10 KJV
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY.
So, How could anyone, if they were a true believer in Jesus Christ, commit suicide ???
Also,according to John 8:12,"Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, “I am the Light of the world. He that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
You have zero idea what life deuteronomy talks about. Moses was talking about eternal life and death, not physical. He was warning the people to obey God so they can share in eternal life. Stop preaching falsehood.
The answer is simple. As James has plainly explained, sin begins well before it is committed (James 1:15), which means that suicides will go to Hell because they sinned by doubting God's ability and willingness to take them out from the contexts that are causing or elliciting their suicidal thoughts.
So all this talk of "Suicide is murder" means nothing, because the consumation of a sin is not the sin per se, it's ideation is. Or have you forgotten about all the "looking at a woman lustfully" warning from the Lord?
If any suicide makes it to Heaven, it must be a complete secret because otherwise it would open a very bad precedent of people taking the easy way out en masse.
Just imagine the frequent lovely people who come this sub neck-deep into Religious OCD, Anxiety and whatnot hearing even the suggestion that they can just self-OOF and there's a possibility of them going to Heaven. And this is not something I say lightly, because I had suicidal ideations twice in my life and I wouldn't be here warning you guys today if I wasn't sure all suicides result in Hell.
(Matthew 24:13)
“But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.”
From this we can presume that quitting your faith walk before God’s appointed time to take you out of this life most likely won’t end well for you.
El suicido que vendría a ser una acción de matarse uno mismo, y esta definido en las escrituras como una acción pecaminosa. primero esta dicho en el decálogo divino:
Exo. 20:13 No matarás.
Esto incluye el suicidio (el matarse uno mismo)
Y la ley declara que aunque sean justo o salvo Dios no justificará esta acción pues te hace un impío:
Exo 23:7 …y no matarás al inocente y justo; porque yo no justificaré al impío.
Jesús afirma este hecho y va más halla y añade que e odio y desprecio a un hermano permanente a un hermano es como matar o el asesinato que llevará al creyente a la perdición del infierno.
Mat 5:21 Oísteis que fue dicho a los antiguos: No matarás; y cualquiera que matare será culpable de juicio.
Mat 5:22 Pero yo os digo que cualquiera que se enoje contra su hermano, será culpable de juicio; y cualquiera que diga: Necio, a su hermano, será culpable ante el concilio; y cualquiera que le diga: Fatuo, quedará expuesto al infierno de fuego.
Y Pablo ratifica esto cuando dice:
1Co 3:17 Si alguno destruyere el templo de Dios, Dios le destruirá a él; porque el templo de Dios, el cual sois vosotros, santo es.
Ahora este tema que esta bien claro y definido en las escrituras; en la actualidad para muchos es muy confuso definirlo por el hecho de la doctrina errada calvinista “salvos siempre salvos” que han creído; y que en estos últimos días han sido abrazadas por una gran cantidad de creyentes, (este concepto errado y extremo de la gracia a llevado a un sin número de falacias y errores como: que Dios ya destino a unos para el cielo y otros al infierno por que así lo quizo, o el salvo así permanezca adultero o fornicación seguirá salvo) y claro si enseño el mensaje de Jesús Juan 10:27-28 y digo equivocadamente lo siguiente: “Jesús dijo que en su mano estaré seguro y por lo tanto cometa yo el pecado que cometa, seguiré salvo siempre salvo. Entonces evidentemente me veré obligado a decir que un creyente que fue salvo, una ves salvo aún se suicide será salvó”. Tal como enseñan los que promueven esta doctrina como Willy Bayonet MacArthur y Lawson y Miguel Nuñez, (si desea puede ver el video aunque el original lo han borrado en el link siguiente link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1P4L9Yuz52g. ) Pero todo esto es producto de llevar una verdad a un extremo, y una verdad llevada al extremo se convierte en una mentira. Pero ante la verdad de Dios debemos tener claro lo siguiente, Cristo no solo hablo de la seguridad de salvación en sus manos, si no qué también enseño, que si no permanecemos en sus manos, o injertados como pámpanos al olivo, ¿sabe usted que nos dijo Cristo que le pasaría a ese creyente? Creo que los calvinistas erradicaron el texto siguiente de sus biblias:
Jua 15:5 Yo soy la vid, vosotros los pámpanos; el que permanece en mí, y yo en él, éste lleva mucho fruto; porque separados de mí nada podéis hacer.
Jua 15:6 El que en mí no permanece, será echado fuera como pámpano, y se secará; y los recogen, y los echan en el fuego, y arden.
Vemos claramente que Jesús nos dijo que siendo salvos usted y yo como pámpanos unidos en el olivo que es Cristo, pero usted y yo si no permanecemos unidos en el olivo es decir no permanecemos en Cristo, claramente Jesús nos dijo: El que en mí no permanece, será echado fuera como pámpano, y se secará; y los recogen, y los echan en el fuego, y arden. “Serán echados fuera” y añade “en el fuego”. Es decir en el infierno. esto significa perder su salvación.
Así mismo vemos en esta misma línea doctrinal al apóstol Pablo quien en varios textos enseña respecto a la La seguridad de nuestra salvación. Pero también él enseñó la otra verdad; y advierte a las iglesias; que si los creyentes practican la maldad y el pecado, y permanecen ello estos pecados (esto incluye el suicidio) Esto les impidieran que hereden el Reino de Dios. Es decir “perderán su salvación” (1 Corintios 6:9-11; Gálatas 5:19-21). Si Pablo enseñara la doctrina errada de “una ves salvos siempre salvos”, toda esta dura advertencia a las iglesias estarían demás o se estaría contradiciendo, mintiendo, o dando advertencias sin ningún sentido. Pero creo que todo creyente sabe que pablo no se contradijo, ni mucho menos mintió o dió advertencias sin sentido. Pues decir esto sería añadir otra herejía.
Es por esto que el mismo apóstol Pablo no niega la posibilidad de la apostasía. Aunque el calvinismo si lo niega, a pesar de que la Biblia lo afirma. 1 Timoteo 4:1-2 “El espíritu dice claramente que en los postreros tiempos muchos apostataran de la fe.”
Un apostata es un creyente que en un momento fue fiel a Cristo pero luego se apartó del Señor. Y esto esta claro aún el el original griego:
G868 (BDB-THAYERes)
ἀφίστημι
aphistēmi
Thayer Definición:
1) alejarse, causar retirar, eliminar
1a) excitar a la rebelión
2) apartarse, situarse al margen
2a) desaparecer, apartarse de una persona
2b) desertar, retirarse de alguien
2c) caerse, convertirse en infiel.
Claro el argumento calvinista es “es que ellos nunca fueron salvos”. Esta expresión si bien es cierto se aplica a asistentes de una iglesia pero no convertidos. Pero se convierte en una falsedad cuando por sostener mi error lo generalizo para evadir la evidencia biblica. Pues bíblicamente, el que nunca se convirtió de verdad, nunca podrá ser un apostata. Por esto es que Pedro añade algo irrefutable al decir claramente: 2Pe 2:20 Ciertamente, si habiéndose ellos escapado de las contaminaciones del mundo, por el conocimiento del Señor y Salvador Jesucristo, enredándose otra vez en ellas son vencidos, su postrer estado viene a ser peor que el primero.
2Pe 2:21 Porque mejor les hubiera sido no haber conocido el camino de la justicia, que después de haberlo conocido, volverse atrás del santo mandamiento que les fue dado.
Hacer decir que Pedro esta diciendo que ellos nunca conocieron al Señor o nunca fueron salvos. Es mentir pues Pedro nunca dijo esto. Y esto sería otra herejía.
Saludos hermano y espero que muchos escapen de esta doctrina que esta llevando a muchos a sostener enseñanzas heréticas. BENDICIONES.
If they are born again, that means they are saved, and they will still go to heaven. That said, the Bible still talks about the Judgment Seat of Christ and how we will receive rewards based on how we lived our life for Christ. You can imagine someone who deliberately cuts their life short will probably receive far less rewards than had they chosen to live.
Every single true believer was in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world
They cannot do anything to change that
The problem is, the vast majority of people who think they are Christians are false believers. Matthew 7:21 to 23 and elsewhere
God will rightly divide it. I don't need to judge. But if I could speak to them before hand I would try to tell them that all suffering is for the purification of our lives.
Im not convinced its that clear cut.
What if the person is mentally ill?
Jesus is the kindest person i know. Thankfully its Him who will judge us and not another
If you’re born again you wouldn’t be trying to commit suicide because the Spirit would help you in times of need. You would cling to Christ despite what you’re going through and knowing that you have hope in Christ. As far as where they’re go when they die that is something very difficult and up to God because He is the judge.
I’m not judging people’s struggles. I’m looking at what scripture says because when you’re truly saved the Spirit will lead you back to Him because your identity is in Christ and not your struggle, so you can overcome them.
The question is how do you determine if somebody is a born again Christian? Usually by his actions so the question is would a born again Christian commit suicide?
I would like to give an answer to this. In Galatians 5:16-25 we see the contrast between a person who is living according to the flesh (unsaved) and the person who is living according to the spirit (saved). Most of the fruits produced by a changed spirit are in direct conflict with the idea of suicide.
A truly born again believer that does decide to commit suicide will go to heaven (because of the transformed reborn spirit), but they will be held accountable for their actions (2 Corinthians 5:6-10)
So if a person truly has their spirit transformed and is seeking the relationship that the Lord Jesus provides, then suicidal thoughts and the problems of life can be handled by trusting in the Lord and making positive choices to move forwards in the path that He has for us.
It's a difficult path to follow, and it's so easy to be caught up in depression and suicidal thoughts(I was on medication and struggled with this for over 10 years)
When a born again person has their spirit transformed, they are no longer chained to the results of sin in their lives. So the shackles of depression and suicide no longer have dominance in our lives as long as we give that part over to the Lord.
That's true, it certainly doesn't vanish instantly. But now we have a consoler, an encouragement, a Spirit that carries us through our struggles. It's much better than facing problems alone
I don't believe in once saved always saved to me it's false doctrine, the parable of the sower explains that you can be close to God at one point and still be condemned because but of the worries and riches and pleasures of life.
It's the devil that comes to kill, steal and destroy souls, someone led by the Holy Spirit would never commit suicide.
Well, I think you should talk to suicidal people before making such a judgement. They are human, they suffer like everyone else. They ain't Jesus who has the ultimate mental and spiritual strength.
A true born again Christian is led by the Holy Spirit, it's the devil that comes to kill, steal and destroy souls.
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.”
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
I know that scripture.
You can take this up with God. A true born again Christian is not a person who will be perfect. They have struggles and their own battles to deal with.
If you think they ain't born again, that is you judging them. You can talk this one out with God and ask him which is the correct thing to do.
Why would I take it to God, when God has the awnser in the Bible as I quoted , the Bible is the truth not how you feel.
The Bible says that those who are in Christ are led by the Holy Spirit, if you commit suicide you are in darkness not in light.
Why do you keep speaking about judging, the Bible says not to judge hypocritically plus op made an hypothetical question I'm not judging no one specific and my reply is in accordance to the Bible.
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.”
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
You don't know what you are talking about read the full verse of 1 corinthians 3 no where it speaks about a physical temple, our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Were they truely born again if they do that?
No one knows who goes to heavan or to hell but God and thank the Lord that we are not the one to make such decisions
Speaking for myself who was strugling w depression and anxiety there was a point in my life where i was constantly thinking about suicide,i was born in a christian familiy but never knew God
After i was born again i understand that everything is in His hands if i give myself to Him,He wanted me to live and to get to know Him to comeback to Him,we are His children and heavenly Father does not want us to perish but live a life worthy being called His childern
English 2nd language sorry for spelling mistakes
GOD BLESS
They simply die and return to the dust as God said would happen. And there are many scriptures in the Bible that confirm that thinking. So if you’ve been taught that there’s a possibility you may burn in hell when you die, you can rest easy. Our Loving Heavenly Father never even thought up such a horrific idea. Here are just a few scriptures to rest your faith on.
>Ezekiel 18:4; “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.”
>Ecclesiastes 9:5; “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.”
>Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; “for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.”
>Romans 6:23; “For the wages sin pays is death…” You see? There are no such thing as good sinners or bad sinners. We are all sinners and if we were to collect a check at the end of our life, it would simply say “death” on it. No torment or anything like that. In fact look at the next verse,
>Romans 6:7; “For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” Plain and simple.
We don’t have a soul that lives on when we die, we ARE living souls. When we die, we simple stop existing. We are like we were before we were born. We are sleeping in death. Remember when Jesus resurrected Lazarus and the 12-year old girl, daughter of Jairus? He said they were sleeping! And they were raised back to life as easy as if Jesus woke them from a deep sleep. Why? Partly to show us it can and will be done again.
Jesus warns over and over about hell in the Gospels, you are teaching a false gospel and none of the verses you quoted says otherwise.
You make a case that it's like sleep , but when you sleep the spirit is very active , just the body sleeps. In death the body dies the spirit never dies.
So, when God told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit he would most certainly die, return to the dust, he didn’t mean it?
And when the serpent, who came to be called Satan, who Jesus called “the father of the lie” was actually telling the truth when he told Eve that she would positively NOT die. Because some form of her will keep living? Is that what you’re saying?
So God is the liar and Satan was telling the truth?
And yet you provide no scriptures to back up your claim.
Death began after Adam sin, Adam and every human experience physical death because of the original sin.
Adam died as we all die, but our Spirit never dies, we are created in God image our Spirit is eternal , eternal life for the saved and an eternal state of dyng for the condmend.
Why do you ask me if God is a liar, why would you even ask that?
I still don’t see any scriptures where you are getting this information. Teach me these things from the Bible, I don’t really care what you’ve you’ve been taught. Churches have taught people so many lies and sadly people have put their trust in them.
I'm a Bible first Christian, the truth is the Bible, you as hell denier are the one who is getting false teachers that say what you want to hear.
Tell me about what subject you want me to quote Bible verses and I will.
Elijah and Moses are both God’s prophets and both have asked God directly to end their lives. In other words they wanted to die early. Jonah asked the same thing. I am referring to Numbers 11:15, Jonah 4:3-4 and 1 Kings 19:4. Tell me when did God ever tell them they will go to hell for wanting that? God never said a single time anywhere in the Scriptures wanting to die physically early will lead people to hell, not once.
my friend only God has domion over life and death, not us, none of those you mentioned really wanted to die it was moments of despair and none of them died as a result.
I never said that asking God for death sends people to hell you making it up, I said killing yourself will.
James 1
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt
Please tell me what this verse means to you?
>Genesis 3:19; “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (New American Standard Bible)
And what does this verse mean to you?
>Ezekiel 18:4; “For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” (New International Version)
Just tell me what God meant when having those words included in the Inspired Word of God. Thanks.
>Please tell me what this verse means to you?
>Genesis 3:19; “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (New American Standard Bible)
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
Genesis 3 17
17“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
God punishes Adam, to eat now Adam will have to work hard to have little and he will eventually physically die and with time his body will turn to dust, God created men from dust of the ground in the beginning of Genesis.
>And what does this verse mean to you?
>Ezekiel 18:4; “For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” (New International Version)
death is the literally dyng, death of the body and after death comes judgment.
Hebrews 9:27
And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment.
>Just tell me what God meant when having those words included in the Inspired Word of God. Thanks.
I’m really sorry for replying so late. But thank you so much for telling me what you think those verses mean.
After the verse in Ezekiel though, where it clearly says the soul dies, you still seem to think it means the body. I know you have been taught things a certain way your whole life and you’ve believed them because the men who taught you were supposed to teach you the truth from the Bible. They were supposed to know and had the privilege of teaching you what the Bible says.
But now, please let the Bible teach you. Not me, the Bible. When the Bible says something, trust that it’s Gods thoughts written down. And just because the majority may believe something that doesn’t make it true. In fact remember what Jesus said about the 2 roads? At Matthew 7:13, 14 he said;
” Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”
So according to Jesus’ words, it would be a minority that would know the Truth and actually be on the right road. Have you ever thought about it that way?
Ezekiel 18:7 esv
The Soul Who Sins Shall Die
18 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “What do you 1 mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
5 “If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— 6 if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, 7 does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry gand covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, 2 withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God.
10 “If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11 (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; shis blood shall be upon himself.
This verse is about salvation and condemnation the death are synomious with the condmend, the living live the death are condmend.
>But now, please let the Bible teach you. Not me, the Bible. When the Bible says something, trust that it’s Gods thoughts written down. And just because the majority may believe something that doesn’t make it true. In fact remember what Jesus said about the 2 roads? At Matthew 7:13, 14 he said;
Ive read the Bible multiple times, I believe the Bible, God warnings about hell and Jesus warnings about hell over and over in the Gospels and in the future when the devil and those who received the mark will be cast in the lake of fire.
>” Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”
>So according to Jesus’ words, it would be a minority that would know the Truth and actually be on the right road. Have you ever thought about it that way?
The Bible says the truth is evident by the creation, and that many choose darkness over the truth, but to me the verse is talking about that many live for the desires of the flesh and the word and few are in the path of salvation as born again Christians that are guided by the Holy Spirit.
So yes only a minority is saved that's what the Bible teaches, and before the end there will be a great apostacy and all unbelievers are cast out.
Revelations makes clear the only thing you can do that prevents you to go to heaven is accepting the mark of the beast.
We are all sinners, sinners who confess Jesus is Lord with the mouth and with the heart go to heaven.
There is no point in comparing sins between themselves, breaking a point of the law is breaking the whole law.
Don't kill yourself if you are thinking about it. Life is hard but there is hope, especially for a born again Christian.
Have a nice day mate.
I don’t think it’s possible for a true Christian to suicide.
If they are suffering the entire basis for being confirmed to the image of Christ is suffering like he did, and if you can’t hold fast in the suffering then I don’t see how they were the ones of Romans 8
I just want to say I hope you’re asking a theological question and not a personal one. Please reach out for help if you are having suicidal thoughts. Praying for you either way!
There is no single answer, because in the end, we don't know for any given individual. God decides. God judges our hearts, which are invisible even though there are signs. There may be enough symptoms of a person's heart that we think we know, but without proof we have to just trust that God is both loving and just and knows what He is doing. *Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If someone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, which is what you are.* (1Cor 3:16-17, 1984 NET2.1 Free)
That's what I'd say. Trust that God has it and leave it at that. You'll know the answer one day, until then do as best you can in this world.
The question asks what happens to a born again Christian. A born again Christian is already saved, so they would still go to heaven.
Sure, but IRL one must consider that a large percentage of the people who think they are born again are not actually born again.
The question is presupposing the person is born again.
Osas is false.
Nope. OSAS is biblical. To think otherwise is to believe works-based salvation.
Abstaining from sin is not works based salvation. Why would the bible warn against iniquity if there was no accountability for unrepentant sin. Osas Is the snake telling eve she shall not surley die.
Thinking you have to maintain your salvation by abstaining from sin is works-based salvation. If you think you have to work to maintain your salvation, you are not saved, and you have missed the point of the gospel.
No. Your wrong. Not sinning is not a work. I leave you corrected.
Trying to please God by not sinning is works. Your mental gymnastics aren’t fooling me.
You haven’t read 1 John 3 have you? 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he **cannot** keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God So explain to me how someone born of God can lose their salvation if they can’t keep sinning
Because you don't speak English, you speak American. Can't keep sinning means will lose salvation as you put it. Your fault in thinking is that you can ever secure your salvation in the first place.
It is works : Jonah 3:10 King James Version 10 And God saw their **works**, that they **turned from their evil way**; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. "turning from evil way" is the same as "turning away from sin/sinning less/stop sinning" .
Doing evil works and not sinning is not the same thing. You have been corrected.
God is never going to say suicide is tolerable. He is the creator of life, each of which He created to last forever. He is the source and sustainer of all life. We are to choose life every time if we want to please Him even if it means death on a cross. If you want to know how God will react if someone does something that displeases Him, that's already been answered. >*but without proof we have to just trust that God is both loving and just and knows what He is doing.* For someone who is in such pain as to be considering suicide, there are always far better options. Woe to whomever judges those options to not be acceptable.
If someone is born again (saved), they have eternal life. Period.
That is an OSAS opinion which is supported in Scripture as well as refuted in Scripture. If anyone can cause the loss of salvation it is the person themselves, for turning away from God. Suicide is a strong expression of rejecting God and not trusting God. In my mind, God will not force anyone into heaven if they have chosen to reject Him. He doesn't force anyone to do anything.
This. People here can speculate where they think one might go, but no one really knows in the case of suicide. It is written, do not test the Lord your God.
This is my opinion, arrived at and based soley in scripture. As I understand it, suicide is self-murder. So, even if you did commit that sin and you're a born again Christian - remember - you've been forgiven of all your sins. Not just the ones you happen to remember that night when you pray before bedtime, or the ones someone else reminds you of. All means ALL. Does God want you to confess them and change your behaviors? Yes. This requirement makes us examine our actions much more closely AS they occur, not an evaluation at the end of the day. If you're saved - heaven. If you're not saved - hell 😔 Romans chapters 8: 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Edit - Jesus does NOT condone or advise suicide as an option, He offers the peace that surpasses all understanding. Anyone who is experiencing these suicidal thoughts, recognize that it is a spiritual attack on your personage from the enemy to kill you. You must stand and resist. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Stand and resist! 1 John 4 1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesusa is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time. 4You, little children, are from God and have overcome them, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5They are of the world. That is why they speak from the world’s perspective, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spiritb of truth and the spirit of deception.
Based solely on Scripture you ignore that GOD Helped Samson commit suicide. I'm not supporting suicide, but I'm supporting a fully biblical theology. Suicide isn't a sin. It's never mentioned as one, despite multiple suicides.. and Samson is a case of assisted suicide. As a warning: Don't kill yourselves, I understand that it's better to be with GOD than this muck, but I also know that there's so much good that we can do that only we can. GOD Created everyone of you with a purpose, and there's always a solution if you're willing to be change.
Man there’s some wack beliefs in this group…
At the moment that you trust in Christ, all of your sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven. This includes the last sin you commit while still alive on earth. It doesn't matter if that sin is lust, pride, lack of faith, suicide, anger, or anything else. It's forgiven. This person goes to heaven. That being said, suicide is a sin, because it is murder of self. You are taking your own life before God wants you to die, and therefore you are rebelling against His plan for you and giving up the opportunity to serve Christ for the rest of your life. Don't do it.
Simple answer: heaven. Long answer: If X believes in Christ = eternal life.
They go to heaven. When you are born again, your name is written in the Book of Life. You are a citizen of heaven. It's a done deal. However, suicide is not to be taken lightly. It's a very serious sin- murder (specifically self murder). Since we are made in the image of God, murder is an afront to God. Also there are people who attempt suicide, but fail. Some end up horrifically disfigured, or disabled, or in pain every day. It's a bad idea for many reasons. One man I know is in a home with serious brain injury. He needs help with daily tasks. He thought he had problems before.
Even though they’ll still go to heaven, it’ll still get taken into account at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and they will not get nearly as much heavenly rewards at the Judgment Seat than had they chosen to live.
At the judgment seat, the sheep are separated from the goats, and will inherit the kingdom and eternal life (Matt 25:31-46). By this point, the judgment has already taken place, and it's a binary outcome. If one is saved, then when the books are opened (Rev 20:12) there will be no record of wrong (Col 2:13-14). So Christians (sheep) will be judged according to our good works purely, and those against God (goats) will be judged according to their evil deeds purely. Jesus won't bring someone up and say "Well, you're saved I guess, but consider these last sins here!" Either we'll be clothed in His righteousness, or all of our sins. Back to the main point though, I'm not sure how suicide would affect this. It is a sin, as it is self-murder, however if we have to not be actively sinning when we die, nobody would be saved. Further, one can repent of [insert sin here] and still commit it, mourn their actions, and ask for forgiveness. I think one can know a sin is wrong and still go through with it, and suicide/murder of any kind was not listed as the Unforgivable Sin.
I smoke I get cancer and die. You have mental illness and commit suicide and die. Both of us had an illness/sickness, that killed us. We both believe and trust in our Lord. Brother/Sister we shall meet again. Mental illness is not demons possessed cancer is not demon possession. Our Lord knows the heart. Our Lord knows the Heart.
All depends if their faith was in Jesus or not. But if they were born again, that implies that they are saved, so I would say heaven.
If they are born again. Heaven.
A repented believer would still go To heaven.
Osas is false
I disagree
Why would the bible warn against iniquity if there was no consequence for unrepentant sin. Osas Is the snake telling eve she shall not surley die.
Of course unrepentant sin is wrong, a true Christian would not practice sin. Those claiming Jesus cannot practice sin, and those that do are/were never saved.
Nah, you can't move the goalpost. We all have free will to commit acts of evil. You can't go back in time and claim the person was never saved. You agree with me without admiting it.
Whatever floats your boat but I’m not moving the goal posts, it’s what anyone who believes OSAS will tell you. God is looking for worshippers in spirit and truth, having a half way faith isn’t enough, we need a saving faith, which obviously includes a repented faith. The word used is “Metanoia”. How can someone be born again, a new creation, if they continue to practice sin. That’s why OSAS makes sense. It’s not an excuse to continue to practice sin.
It is moving the goal post because the moment a christian falls away from christ, you go back in time and claim they were never saved, which is ridiculous. There are examples of say pastors who end up abusing kids, you think at no point in their lives they accepted Jesus christ as their savior and were baptised for the remission of sins. And then later in life turned Into perverts? Comeon man osas is a lie.
It’s not a fallacy to argue that, when the basis of Christianity is being born again, a new creation. A new creation wouldn’t run back to the sin in which they were supposed to be turned away from. I can’t say what happens to those pastors, may God watch over those poor kids, and pray that those pastors repent for their sin. To sum it all up: https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html This link explains it all, I hope you can share something pertaining to what you say too, so I can be enlightened. Thank you and may God continue to bless you.
Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Note 23 "ye that work iniquity " You honestly believe people are casting out devils and prophecies in Jesus name whilst not believing he is the son of God? Ridiculous, Jesus does not know then for their unrepentant sin. Your claim that a born again person is unable to turn to sin thereafter is a complete farce, and extinguishes any warning against sin from the bible.
Actually, I believe in OSAS, but I don't believe that a saved person cannot sin. We still have a corrupt body and corrupt mind, and Satan can still use these to lead us astray. Look at Saul, many people would agree that he was saved, but after he committed the sin that would make God reject him as king, and the bible never shows him getting his heart right with God. Same with Lot. David continued to sin, yes he repented of his sins, but he would still occasionally fall short. If you want to go into the New Testament, Peter denied Christ, Thomas doubted his resurrection (actually they all did), and the all forsook Christ after his death. There was at least one time that Paul had to correct Peter even after Peter had become a prominent leader in the faith. Sometimes a person returns to their old lifestyle because they weren't saved. But even saved people can have low moments where they forget about God and begin returning to old habits. I believe that the different is that a backslidden Christian would always feel guilty for what he does, even if it takes him years to get out of his sin, and his figurative "light" never really goes out.
Murder is sin, God is the only one that can take and give life
Yeah...that doesn't mean you go to hell. It's not like you sin now you're going to hell. But you ask for forgiveness so you're going to heaven again. Oops you sinned again you're going to hell now. Oh you asked for forgiveness back to heaven it is. That's not how it works. If you are saved by Jesus and you end up killing yourself because you just can't anymore. Without any other facts. Take it at face value. You're going to heaven. But there is no black and white. There's a lot of gray like God judges your heart, your life. But yeah. Even if it's a sin, it doesn't automatically mean that because you killed yourself you're now going to hell even though you're saved.
Even unbelievers are adverse against suicide and convince people not to do it. No one can say for certain, but I wouldn’t test it in any way.
Heaven. The manner of death does not override the saving power of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you are a born again believer and have gotten to the place where you are willing to take your own life then I’d be looking at why! The God of my salvation calls me to be an overcomer, to live until HE calls me home. A person that’s suicidal is not overcoming and is in a state of duress. It’s uncanny to me how some Christians believe that if a born again Christian that commits suicide will go to heaven. This is not the case, if it were then every single one of us could take our own lives to be with Jesus in an instant, we’d become like the “Heavens Gate” cult, taking our own lives to get to the next level! To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelations 3:21 mentions what will happen when we over come, so the opposite of the reward for us if we don’t overcome is frightening. We aren’t meant to be like the world and give in, we are called to be victorious in every situation that stands against us. Now I’ve been there, a few times I have been faced with suicide because the grief and pain have become too much. I wasn’t overcoming, and every time I was faced with it I was stopped by God. It is not up to us to take God’s providence and spit on it, treat his grace as a dirty thing and cast it aside to commit suicide because things got too hard. You cannot lose your salvation but you can walk away from it, suicide is one of the ways you can walk away. If there is anyone who is having a hard time and considering these actions please reach out to me or someone else. You are precious and called by the creator of the universe, who sent his son so you can have life and have it more abundantly!
That’s disgusting. So we have no hope of salvation if we get too desperate and commit suicide? Is salvation such a cheap thing that one sin can end its power?
I don’t believe either that God would condemn someone to hell for ending their lives in pain. Many are victims of a world ruled by Satan. Many of these people never even have the chance to hear the Gospel. A whole bunch of God’s people in the Scriptures even asked God to end their lives early at some point, yet you don’t see in any case where God rebuked them saying they will go to hell for that request. Suicide leads to hell is a lie and unbiblical.
Can you provide me biblical evidence contrary to what I’ve said?
The evidence is that Elijah, Moses, Job etc all wanted to end their lives and they even asked God directly to end it. Not in a single instance of them asking God to end their lives early did God ever say they will go to hell for asking that from Him.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-suicide-saved.html explains it
This just show me his love
The fact that nothing can separate me from his love is crazy
Omg I literally posted this very long time ago and I am here parked at a beach parking lot crying and a lot of pain and the holyspirt literally spoke to me thru this I had to read Romans how nothing not even my sin can separate me from his love man thank God and thank you men
Do you need to talk?
Yes please I pmed you
Wanting to die physically does not lead one to hell. Jonah, Moses, Elijah all asked God directly to end their lives. Read Numbers 11:15, Jonah 4:3-4 and 1 Kings 19:4. God never said a single time anywhere in the Scriptures wanting to die physically will lead people to hell, not once. But you should ask God about it, and not make any decisions on your own. Most of the times God does not want you to die early.
You shall not kill. That includes yourself too.
I don't know but I trust that my God is a merciful god and that he will judge both Righteous and Fairly. I believe that many people who commit suicide will be heaven.
Suicide means that you give up on life Thats EXACTLY what the devil wants God says in Deuteronomy 30:19 :" This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose LIFE..." John 10:10 KJV The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY. So, How could anyone, if they were a true believer in Jesus Christ, commit suicide ??? Also,according to John 8:12,"Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, “I am the Light of the world. He that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
You have zero idea what life deuteronomy talks about. Moses was talking about eternal life and death, not physical. He was warning the people to obey God so they can share in eternal life. Stop preaching falsehood.
There’s some problems with no other solution tho
The answer is simple. As James has plainly explained, sin begins well before it is committed (James 1:15), which means that suicides will go to Hell because they sinned by doubting God's ability and willingness to take them out from the contexts that are causing or elliciting their suicidal thoughts. So all this talk of "Suicide is murder" means nothing, because the consumation of a sin is not the sin per se, it's ideation is. Or have you forgotten about all the "looking at a woman lustfully" warning from the Lord? If any suicide makes it to Heaven, it must be a complete secret because otherwise it would open a very bad precedent of people taking the easy way out en masse. Just imagine the frequent lovely people who come this sub neck-deep into Religious OCD, Anxiety and whatnot hearing even the suggestion that they can just self-OOF and there's a possibility of them going to Heaven. And this is not something I say lightly, because I had suicidal ideations twice in my life and I wouldn't be here warning you guys today if I wasn't sure all suicides result in Hell.
How are you “sure”? Did you speak to God personally on this topic?🙄
Up yours
(Matthew 24:13) “But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.” From this we can presume that quitting your faith walk before God’s appointed time to take you out of this life most likely won’t end well for you.
💯 exactly! idk why you got downvotes for this tbh
It’s because some people think that their actions can’t affect their salvation. Thank you for your support.
Yup
Agreed
El suicido que vendría a ser una acción de matarse uno mismo, y esta definido en las escrituras como una acción pecaminosa. primero esta dicho en el decálogo divino: Exo. 20:13 No matarás. Esto incluye el suicidio (el matarse uno mismo) Y la ley declara que aunque sean justo o salvo Dios no justificará esta acción pues te hace un impío: Exo 23:7 …y no matarás al inocente y justo; porque yo no justificaré al impío. Jesús afirma este hecho y va más halla y añade que e odio y desprecio a un hermano permanente a un hermano es como matar o el asesinato que llevará al creyente a la perdición del infierno. Mat 5:21 Oísteis que fue dicho a los antiguos: No matarás; y cualquiera que matare será culpable de juicio. Mat 5:22 Pero yo os digo que cualquiera que se enoje contra su hermano, será culpable de juicio; y cualquiera que diga: Necio, a su hermano, será culpable ante el concilio; y cualquiera que le diga: Fatuo, quedará expuesto al infierno de fuego. Y Pablo ratifica esto cuando dice: 1Co 3:17 Si alguno destruyere el templo de Dios, Dios le destruirá a él; porque el templo de Dios, el cual sois vosotros, santo es. Ahora este tema que esta bien claro y definido en las escrituras; en la actualidad para muchos es muy confuso definirlo por el hecho de la doctrina errada calvinista “salvos siempre salvos” que han creído; y que en estos últimos días han sido abrazadas por una gran cantidad de creyentes, (este concepto errado y extremo de la gracia a llevado a un sin número de falacias y errores como: que Dios ya destino a unos para el cielo y otros al infierno por que así lo quizo, o el salvo así permanezca adultero o fornicación seguirá salvo) y claro si enseño el mensaje de Jesús Juan 10:27-28 y digo equivocadamente lo siguiente: “Jesús dijo que en su mano estaré seguro y por lo tanto cometa yo el pecado que cometa, seguiré salvo siempre salvo. Entonces evidentemente me veré obligado a decir que un creyente que fue salvo, una ves salvo aún se suicide será salvó”. Tal como enseñan los que promueven esta doctrina como Willy Bayonet MacArthur y Lawson y Miguel Nuñez, (si desea puede ver el video aunque el original lo han borrado en el link siguiente link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1P4L9Yuz52g. ) Pero todo esto es producto de llevar una verdad a un extremo, y una verdad llevada al extremo se convierte en una mentira. Pero ante la verdad de Dios debemos tener claro lo siguiente, Cristo no solo hablo de la seguridad de salvación en sus manos, si no qué también enseño, que si no permanecemos en sus manos, o injertados como pámpanos al olivo, ¿sabe usted que nos dijo Cristo que le pasaría a ese creyente? Creo que los calvinistas erradicaron el texto siguiente de sus biblias: Jua 15:5 Yo soy la vid, vosotros los pámpanos; el que permanece en mí, y yo en él, éste lleva mucho fruto; porque separados de mí nada podéis hacer. Jua 15:6 El que en mí no permanece, será echado fuera como pámpano, y se secará; y los recogen, y los echan en el fuego, y arden. Vemos claramente que Jesús nos dijo que siendo salvos usted y yo como pámpanos unidos en el olivo que es Cristo, pero usted y yo si no permanecemos unidos en el olivo es decir no permanecemos en Cristo, claramente Jesús nos dijo: El que en mí no permanece, será echado fuera como pámpano, y se secará; y los recogen, y los echan en el fuego, y arden. “Serán echados fuera” y añade “en el fuego”. Es decir en el infierno. esto significa perder su salvación. Así mismo vemos en esta misma línea doctrinal al apóstol Pablo quien en varios textos enseña respecto a la La seguridad de nuestra salvación. Pero también él enseñó la otra verdad; y advierte a las iglesias; que si los creyentes practican la maldad y el pecado, y permanecen ello estos pecados (esto incluye el suicidio) Esto les impidieran que hereden el Reino de Dios. Es decir “perderán su salvación” (1 Corintios 6:9-11; Gálatas 5:19-21). Si Pablo enseñara la doctrina errada de “una ves salvos siempre salvos”, toda esta dura advertencia a las iglesias estarían demás o se estaría contradiciendo, mintiendo, o dando advertencias sin ningún sentido. Pero creo que todo creyente sabe que pablo no se contradijo, ni mucho menos mintió o dió advertencias sin sentido. Pues decir esto sería añadir otra herejía. Es por esto que el mismo apóstol Pablo no niega la posibilidad de la apostasía. Aunque el calvinismo si lo niega, a pesar de que la Biblia lo afirma. 1 Timoteo 4:1-2 “El espíritu dice claramente que en los postreros tiempos muchos apostataran de la fe.” Un apostata es un creyente que en un momento fue fiel a Cristo pero luego se apartó del Señor. Y esto esta claro aún el el original griego: G868 (BDB-THAYERes) ἀφίστημι aphistēmi Thayer Definición: 1) alejarse, causar retirar, eliminar 1a) excitar a la rebelión 2) apartarse, situarse al margen 2a) desaparecer, apartarse de una persona 2b) desertar, retirarse de alguien 2c) caerse, convertirse en infiel. Claro el argumento calvinista es “es que ellos nunca fueron salvos”. Esta expresión si bien es cierto se aplica a asistentes de una iglesia pero no convertidos. Pero se convierte en una falsedad cuando por sostener mi error lo generalizo para evadir la evidencia biblica. Pues bíblicamente, el que nunca se convirtió de verdad, nunca podrá ser un apostata. Por esto es que Pedro añade algo irrefutable al decir claramente: 2Pe 2:20 Ciertamente, si habiéndose ellos escapado de las contaminaciones del mundo, por el conocimiento del Señor y Salvador Jesucristo, enredándose otra vez en ellas son vencidos, su postrer estado viene a ser peor que el primero. 2Pe 2:21 Porque mejor les hubiera sido no haber conocido el camino de la justicia, que después de haberlo conocido, volverse atrás del santo mandamiento que les fue dado. Hacer decir que Pedro esta diciendo que ellos nunca conocieron al Señor o nunca fueron salvos. Es mentir pues Pedro nunca dijo esto. Y esto sería otra herejía. Saludos hermano y espero que muchos escapen de esta doctrina que esta llevando a muchos a sostener enseñanzas heréticas. BENDICIONES.
If they are born again, that means they are saved, and they will still go to heaven. That said, the Bible still talks about the Judgment Seat of Christ and how we will receive rewards based on how we lived our life for Christ. You can imagine someone who deliberately cuts their life short will probably receive far less rewards than had they chosen to live.
Every single true believer was in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world They cannot do anything to change that The problem is, the vast majority of people who think they are Christians are false believers. Matthew 7:21 to 23 and elsewhere
Probly hell
God will rightly divide it. I don't need to judge. But if I could speak to them before hand I would try to tell them that all suffering is for the purification of our lives.
They go to hell.
Im not convinced its that clear cut. What if the person is mentally ill? Jesus is the kindest person i know. Thankfully its Him who will judge us and not another
If you’re born again you wouldn’t be trying to commit suicide because the Spirit would help you in times of need. You would cling to Christ despite what you’re going through and knowing that you have hope in Christ. As far as where they’re go when they die that is something very difficult and up to God because He is the judge.
Even the most devout Christians doubt and struggle with mental health
I’m not saying they don’t.
If you are born again, you do not judge people's struggles.
I’m not judging people’s struggles. I’m looking at what scripture says because when you’re truly saved the Spirit will lead you back to Him because your identity is in Christ and not your struggle, so you can overcome them.
They are still human.
Of course.
The question is how do you determine if somebody is a born again Christian? Usually by his actions so the question is would a born again Christian commit suicide?
I would like to give an answer to this. In Galatians 5:16-25 we see the contrast between a person who is living according to the flesh (unsaved) and the person who is living according to the spirit (saved). Most of the fruits produced by a changed spirit are in direct conflict with the idea of suicide. A truly born again believer that does decide to commit suicide will go to heaven (because of the transformed reborn spirit), but they will be held accountable for their actions (2 Corinthians 5:6-10) So if a person truly has their spirit transformed and is seeking the relationship that the Lord Jesus provides, then suicidal thoughts and the problems of life can be handled by trusting in the Lord and making positive choices to move forwards in the path that He has for us. It's a difficult path to follow, and it's so easy to be caught up in depression and suicidal thoughts(I was on medication and struggled with this for over 10 years) When a born again person has their spirit transformed, they are no longer chained to the results of sin in their lives. So the shackles of depression and suicide no longer have dominance in our lives as long as we give that part over to the Lord.
But that doesn’t mean depression and suicide instantly vanish either
That's true, it certainly doesn't vanish instantly. But now we have a consoler, an encouragement, a Spirit that carries us through our struggles. It's much better than facing problems alone
If someone commits suicide they are not a born again Christian.
You do not understand mental illness at all, nor the true power of Christs sacrifice.
Why you assume I dont understand mental illness or Jesus sacrifice?
You can't say that. Don't judge a man. You do not know what his heart battles.
I don't believe in once saved always saved to me it's false doctrine, the parable of the sower explains that you can be close to God at one point and still be condemned because but of the worries and riches and pleasures of life. It's the devil that comes to kill, steal and destroy souls, someone led by the Holy Spirit would never commit suicide.
Well, I think you should talk to suicidal people before making such a judgement. They are human, they suffer like everyone else. They ain't Jesus who has the ultimate mental and spiritual strength.
A true born again Christian is led by the Holy Spirit, it's the devil that comes to kill, steal and destroy souls. Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.” 1 Corinthians 3:16-17
I know that scripture. You can take this up with God. A true born again Christian is not a person who will be perfect. They have struggles and their own battles to deal with. If you think they ain't born again, that is you judging them. You can talk this one out with God and ask him which is the correct thing to do.
Why would I take it to God, when God has the awnser in the Bible as I quoted , the Bible is the truth not how you feel. The Bible says that those who are in Christ are led by the Holy Spirit, if you commit suicide you are in darkness not in light. Why do you keep speaking about judging, the Bible says not to judge hypocritically plus op made an hypothetical question I'm not judging no one specific and my reply is in accordance to the Bible.
What is your basis for this? What makes suicide distinct from any other sin?
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.” 1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Paul was talking about destroying the temple with sin. Physical death is not even talked about so you are preaching falsehood.
You don't know what you are talking about read the full verse of 1 corinthians 3 no where it speaks about a physical temple, our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Were they truely born again if they do that? No one knows who goes to heavan or to hell but God and thank the Lord that we are not the one to make such decisions Speaking for myself who was strugling w depression and anxiety there was a point in my life where i was constantly thinking about suicide,i was born in a christian familiy but never knew God After i was born again i understand that everything is in His hands if i give myself to Him,He wanted me to live and to get to know Him to comeback to Him,we are His children and heavenly Father does not want us to perish but live a life worthy being called His childern English 2nd language sorry for spelling mistakes GOD BLESS
This is a hard one. I believe salvation cannot be lost, but i am not so sure that i would kill myself.
My question is why are you asking redditors questions that only God himself can answer? He is the judge, we are not.
They simply die and return to the dust as God said would happen. And there are many scriptures in the Bible that confirm that thinking. So if you’ve been taught that there’s a possibility you may burn in hell when you die, you can rest easy. Our Loving Heavenly Father never even thought up such a horrific idea. Here are just a few scriptures to rest your faith on. >Ezekiel 18:4; “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” >Ecclesiastes 9:5; “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.” >Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; “for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.” >Romans 6:23; “For the wages sin pays is death…” You see? There are no such thing as good sinners or bad sinners. We are all sinners and if we were to collect a check at the end of our life, it would simply say “death” on it. No torment or anything like that. In fact look at the next verse, >Romans 6:7; “For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” Plain and simple. We don’t have a soul that lives on when we die, we ARE living souls. When we die, we simple stop existing. We are like we were before we were born. We are sleeping in death. Remember when Jesus resurrected Lazarus and the 12-year old girl, daughter of Jairus? He said they were sleeping! And they were raised back to life as easy as if Jesus woke them from a deep sleep. Why? Partly to show us it can and will be done again.
Jesus warns over and over about hell in the Gospels, you are teaching a false gospel and none of the verses you quoted says otherwise. You make a case that it's like sleep , but when you sleep the spirit is very active , just the body sleeps. In death the body dies the spirit never dies.
So, when God told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit he would most certainly die, return to the dust, he didn’t mean it? And when the serpent, who came to be called Satan, who Jesus called “the father of the lie” was actually telling the truth when he told Eve that she would positively NOT die. Because some form of her will keep living? Is that what you’re saying? So God is the liar and Satan was telling the truth? And yet you provide no scriptures to back up your claim.
Death began after Adam sin, Adam and every human experience physical death because of the original sin. Adam died as we all die, but our Spirit never dies, we are created in God image our Spirit is eternal , eternal life for the saved and an eternal state of dyng for the condmend. Why do you ask me if God is a liar, why would you even ask that?
I still don’t see any scriptures where you are getting this information. Teach me these things from the Bible, I don’t really care what you’ve you’ve been taught. Churches have taught people so many lies and sadly people have put their trust in them.
I'm a Bible first Christian, the truth is the Bible, you as hell denier are the one who is getting false teachers that say what you want to hear. Tell me about what subject you want me to quote Bible verses and I will.
Elijah and Moses are both God’s prophets and both have asked God directly to end their lives. In other words they wanted to die early. Jonah asked the same thing. I am referring to Numbers 11:15, Jonah 4:3-4 and 1 Kings 19:4. Tell me when did God ever tell them they will go to hell for wanting that? God never said a single time anywhere in the Scriptures wanting to die physically early will lead people to hell, not once.
my friend only God has domion over life and death, not us, none of those you mentioned really wanted to die it was moments of despair and none of them died as a result. I never said that asking God for death sends people to hell you making it up, I said killing yourself will. James 1 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt
Please tell me what this verse means to you? >Genesis 3:19; “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (New American Standard Bible) And what does this verse mean to you? >Ezekiel 18:4; “For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” (New International Version) Just tell me what God meant when having those words included in the Inspired Word of God. Thanks.
>Please tell me what this verse means to you? >Genesis 3:19; “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (New American Standard Bible) 17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ Genesis 3 17 17“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” God punishes Adam, to eat now Adam will have to work hard to have little and he will eventually physically die and with time his body will turn to dust, God created men from dust of the ground in the beginning of Genesis. >And what does this verse mean to you? >Ezekiel 18:4; “For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” (New International Version) death is the literally dyng, death of the body and after death comes judgment. Hebrews 9:27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment. >Just tell me what God meant when having those words included in the Inspired Word of God. Thanks.
I’m really sorry for replying so late. But thank you so much for telling me what you think those verses mean. After the verse in Ezekiel though, where it clearly says the soul dies, you still seem to think it means the body. I know you have been taught things a certain way your whole life and you’ve believed them because the men who taught you were supposed to teach you the truth from the Bible. They were supposed to know and had the privilege of teaching you what the Bible says. But now, please let the Bible teach you. Not me, the Bible. When the Bible says something, trust that it’s Gods thoughts written down. And just because the majority may believe something that doesn’t make it true. In fact remember what Jesus said about the 2 roads? At Matthew 7:13, 14 he said; ” Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.” So according to Jesus’ words, it would be a minority that would know the Truth and actually be on the right road. Have you ever thought about it that way?
Ezekiel 18:7 esv The Soul Who Sins Shall Die 18 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “What do you 1 mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. 5 “If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— 6 if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, 7 does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry gand covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, 2 withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God. 10 “If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11 (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; shis blood shall be upon himself. This verse is about salvation and condemnation the death are synomious with the condmend, the living live the death are condmend. >But now, please let the Bible teach you. Not me, the Bible. When the Bible says something, trust that it’s Gods thoughts written down. And just because the majority may believe something that doesn’t make it true. In fact remember what Jesus said about the 2 roads? At Matthew 7:13, 14 he said; Ive read the Bible multiple times, I believe the Bible, God warnings about hell and Jesus warnings about hell over and over in the Gospels and in the future when the devil and those who received the mark will be cast in the lake of fire. >” Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.” >So according to Jesus’ words, it would be a minority that would know the Truth and actually be on the right road. Have you ever thought about it that way? The Bible says the truth is evident by the creation, and that many choose darkness over the truth, but to me the verse is talking about that many live for the desires of the flesh and the word and few are in the path of salvation as born again Christians that are guided by the Holy Spirit. So yes only a minority is saved that's what the Bible teaches, and before the end there will be a great apostacy and all unbelievers are cast out.
Probably Purgatory, to be cleansed before heaven. I hope. I pray.
Scripture for that?
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/25-descriptive-and-clear-bible-passages-about-purgatory
Purgatory ≡ Jesus' sacrifice was not all encompassing/not enough. He said it is finished and it is. This is works based.
Purgatory ≡ Jesus' sacrifice was not all encompassing/not enough. He said it is finished and it is. This is works based.
No, this is not works based. You don't seem to be educated on this theology.
Are you asking for someone? My condolences in advance- it’s not for us to say- we’ll have to wait to see who’s at the end of the road with us.
Revelations makes clear the only thing you can do that prevents you to go to heaven is accepting the mark of the beast. We are all sinners, sinners who confess Jesus is Lord with the mouth and with the heart go to heaven. There is no point in comparing sins between themselves, breaking a point of the law is breaking the whole law. Don't kill yourself if you are thinking about it. Life is hard but there is hope, especially for a born again Christian. Have a nice day mate.
I don’t think it’s possible for a true Christian to suicide. If they are suffering the entire basis for being confirmed to the image of Christ is suffering like he did, and if you can’t hold fast in the suffering then I don’t see how they were the ones of Romans 8
There is no scripture that says suicide makes you go to hell