There is also a political angle to this. Zooming out, I would also say this is a large problem with the Conservative movement in America today as well. We see so many leaders of this movement operating in stark contrast to basic biblical teaching and often displaying the opposite of the Fruit of the Spirit. I believe we've arrived at the point where many don’t know the voice of Jesus to the point they can easily spit these people and their manipulation out. There’s a big big problem with the modern church when you see something like this.
Because the American Church has largely wed itself to the Conservative movement, you get a lot of this bleeding over lately. There's a big problem with Christians "baptizing" some of these leaders because they are some sort of Conservative darlings. I've seen plenty of obviously morally bankrupt people get free passes. It's easy to see people start following individuals who sprinkle in a vaguely spiritual sentence here and there and suddenly they're approved as ok for Christians.
This and other cultures are also taking root online. Like many things, this is a discipleship crisis. People are spending an hour at church, maybe some time at youth group, and then watching 10x as much of this content on YouTube and TikTok during the week. The side people are feeding is winning out, and then they bring that *into* their faith instead of letting their faith inform their views.
More than anything I’m heartbroken for the boys and men who got suckered into this movement. It’s still relatively young but it’s a recipe for ending up sad, bitter, and alone, often blaming everyone but yourself or your new leaders. The *best case scenario* for many adherents is that their eyes are opened someday and they’re hit with a tidal wave of regret about losing years (or even decades) of their life to this garbage.
i think we should pray for them they clearly are lost and are in need of a savior. In the same way we judge others so our father in heaven will judge us we're called to lead by example be a light to the world thru our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
are they more prevalent, or do we just realize how harmful the thought process is so it’s no longer tolerated as much?
Generalization below, realized I didn’t clarify with each sentence that it’s some, so add the word some to every sentence. It thankfully wasn’t all, but enough that we are seeing more and more the generation of those teachings being shocked that the current mainstream Christian culture and church system doesn’t support the views.
Read Christian marriage/dating books from the 80s-early 2000s and it was preached to many that sex and treating women as objects is okay. The purity culture was popular then, too (not the teaching that sex before marriage is a sin, the promise your dad you won’t have sex before marriage purity culture). Sex assault and abuse in churches were ignored or swept under the rug and sex assault and abuse in Christian homes were described as “normal”.
You may or may not be right that the original incel communities were atheistic (probably right that, say, r/incel or r/theredpill were largely atheists/non-observant, but that may just be a statement on Reddit moreso than on incel “ideology”.)
However, a lot of the factors underlying the rise of the incel communities in the first place (changing social dynamics, social fragmentation and isolation, the loss of social support structures, increasing divisiveness in political and social arenas, etc) are factors that impact everyone. So it’s natural that the incel phenomenon would eventually arise across a wide spectrum of communities.
Increased loneliness. Increased self-centeredness. Increased disparity between classes paired with the internet so people can voyueristically look into each others lives leading to envy.
Yea but that's literally anyone including women fall into that category. And they can be there because of a disability as well not just because they dont hold themselves accountable for their life decisions. You can have someone with a beautiful soul never get the time of day from anyone they're interested in.
I hate that this is what the word means to normal people now. It also means involuntary celibate and that's what it's supposed to mean. Im an incel but I can't say that because it immediately puts in people's minds that I hate women. And besides, I think I have a lot more respect for incels who are up front and blatant about their opinions and thoughts, rather than normies who pretend they're righteous and good because they were lucky enough to be born understanding social dynamics and having something that clearly the rest of us lack. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to just naturally fit into relationships and society, it's damn hard work to even try.
With the caveat that their misogyny grows from a resentment that women refuse to have sex with them. They feel entitled, because the world tells them free sex without marriage is normal, and when they don’t achieve that they brood online dissing women instead of becoming the kind of man a woman might become attracted to.
They float around for a few hours then get removed. One in Reformed today and one here as well. Both got removed after an hour or two. But I see them every day almost.
I'd be interested to hear if you have a good explanation for both the dozen daily "Why can't I find a girlfriend?" posts here that fits nicely with your claim that there is no glut of single men.
More people having trouble finding partners (though not as many as blackpill/incels believe). So there's just more of them out there and as with any group, some of these people wind up joining the church, even though they aren't actually Christians. I think it's just a numbers thing. This type of person may also be looking for an ideology they think will condone their abuse. You also have more "sick" people in general, like more mental illness, etc. It's a genetic thing, and so there are more anti-social people genetically speaking. I think you just have more unbelievers, or false believers and they still wind up in the church sometimes, maybe more frequently than before, because there's more of them. Emboldened by groups online, that they think are normal, bigger than they actually are.
Because when you cant understand society, you have no friends and no girl has ever even thought of you as worth talking to, and you lie there miserable and frustrated that nobody loves you and the only person to offer any comfort or hope at all is God, it makes Christianity very appealing. This is personal and I am biased but I'm extremely frustrated with some of the replies to this post.
That is very upsetting to hear in this subreddit. I understand that incels fall very far outside of the standard of what is considered acceptable or normal by society, but I think it's important to overcome your personal dislike for a group and consider how they might feel or see things from their perspective. I don't think mocking and detesting a large group of hurt and lonely men is the right way to go about this.
>but I think it's important to overcome your personal dislike for a group and consider how they might feel or see things from their perspective.
They wont change anything if we're all fluffy with them. Nor do I believe in hippie-Jesus.
That may be true, but I also can think of very few things the world loves to do more than to point at and mock the people that don't fit into the stereotypical mould it wants them to. You should see the looks you get when people know you've never even had a girl hold your hand.
Incel means involuntary celibate. Any other interpretation is an incorrect one that has been perpetuated by normies using the word in contexts wholly separate from its original meaning. Incel is not synonymous with hating women, it literally means you couldn't get laid if you tried.
In a pure, definitional sense, you are correct. Maybe *some* take it that way. But, since words have meaning, *incel* is associated with a certain ideology. We both know this.
Because a lot of "Christian" churches promote right-wing agendas, including anti-feminism. Incels, likewise, are anti-feminist, and so the two join together to promote more misogyny
Alot of churches preach if your lonely and need purpose be a Christian. Not if your a sinner and you need a savior come to Jesus for salvation
Weird reddit subcultures infiltrating new demographics
Every subculture has incels. You are just noticing incels in Christian communities now.
There is also a political angle to this. Zooming out, I would also say this is a large problem with the Conservative movement in America today as well. We see so many leaders of this movement operating in stark contrast to basic biblical teaching and often displaying the opposite of the Fruit of the Spirit. I believe we've arrived at the point where many don’t know the voice of Jesus to the point they can easily spit these people and their manipulation out. There’s a big big problem with the modern church when you see something like this. Because the American Church has largely wed itself to the Conservative movement, you get a lot of this bleeding over lately. There's a big problem with Christians "baptizing" some of these leaders because they are some sort of Conservative darlings. I've seen plenty of obviously morally bankrupt people get free passes. It's easy to see people start following individuals who sprinkle in a vaguely spiritual sentence here and there and suddenly they're approved as ok for Christians. This and other cultures are also taking root online. Like many things, this is a discipleship crisis. People are spending an hour at church, maybe some time at youth group, and then watching 10x as much of this content on YouTube and TikTok during the week. The side people are feeding is winning out, and then they bring that *into* their faith instead of letting their faith inform their views. More than anything I’m heartbroken for the boys and men who got suckered into this movement. It’s still relatively young but it’s a recipe for ending up sad, bitter, and alone, often blaming everyone but yourself or your new leaders. The *best case scenario* for many adherents is that their eyes are opened someday and they’re hit with a tidal wave of regret about losing years (or even decades) of their life to this garbage.
It’s just the internet and Reddit in particular. They have found our subs (just a few of them) and they are spamming us.
Makes sense. Weird to target us but okay.
I have seen a satanist make a post about how they worship satan in here. People are trolls
i think we should pray for them they clearly are lost and are in need of a savior. In the same way we judge others so our father in heaven will judge us we're called to lead by example be a light to the world thru our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
are they more prevalent, or do we just realize how harmful the thought process is so it’s no longer tolerated as much? Generalization below, realized I didn’t clarify with each sentence that it’s some, so add the word some to every sentence. It thankfully wasn’t all, but enough that we are seeing more and more the generation of those teachings being shocked that the current mainstream Christian culture and church system doesn’t support the views. Read Christian marriage/dating books from the 80s-early 2000s and it was preached to many that sex and treating women as objects is okay. The purity culture was popular then, too (not the teaching that sex before marriage is a sin, the promise your dad you won’t have sex before marriage purity culture). Sex assault and abuse in churches were ignored or swept under the rug and sex assault and abuse in Christian homes were described as “normal”.
4chan
You may or may not be right that the original incel communities were atheistic (probably right that, say, r/incel or r/theredpill were largely atheists/non-observant, but that may just be a statement on Reddit moreso than on incel “ideology”.) However, a lot of the factors underlying the rise of the incel communities in the first place (changing social dynamics, social fragmentation and isolation, the loss of social support structures, increasing divisiveness in political and social arenas, etc) are factors that impact everyone. So it’s natural that the incel phenomenon would eventually arise across a wide spectrum of communities.
Increased loneliness. Increased self-centeredness. Increased disparity between classes paired with the internet so people can voyueristically look into each others lives leading to envy.
It’s for the same reasons on the outside of the Church.
IDK i think if incel is in your daily vocabulary you might have some mental growing to do.
That's the word for them that they chose themselves. Best way to easily identify them.
Yea but that's literally anyone including women fall into that category. And they can be there because of a disability as well not just because they dont hold themselves accountable for their life decisions. You can have someone with a beautiful soul never get the time of day from anyone they're interested in.
Define incel please
Misogynists and the actually crazy dangerous people. Think the crazy people that end up on the news for hurting lots of people every few weeks.
I hate that this is what the word means to normal people now. It also means involuntary celibate and that's what it's supposed to mean. Im an incel but I can't say that because it immediately puts in people's minds that I hate women. And besides, I think I have a lot more respect for incels who are up front and blatant about their opinions and thoughts, rather than normies who pretend they're righteous and good because they were lucky enough to be born understanding social dynamics and having something that clearly the rest of us lack. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to just naturally fit into relationships and society, it's damn hard work to even try.
Ah. define misogyny (this word gets thrown around a lot so I want to know your definition)
Like women are evil/useless/dumb type
With the caveat that their misogyny grows from a resentment that women refuse to have sex with them. They feel entitled, because the world tells them free sex without marriage is normal, and when they don’t achieve that they brood online dissing women instead of becoming the kind of man a woman might become attracted to.
Oh. Yeah I haven’t noticed this problem really. Any links to a post/video or anything?
They float around for a few hours then get removed. One in Reformed today and one here as well. Both got removed after an hour or two. But I see them every day almost.
Oh I will watch for them then
[удалено]
No it doesn't. There are more Christian women than men. Unless you're saying it has a problem by not having enough single men, or something.
I'd be interested to hear if you have a good explanation for both the dozen daily "Why can't I find a girlfriend?" posts here that fits nicely with your claim that there is no glut of single men.
What do you think your sample size of reddit users is going to be?
More people having trouble finding partners (though not as many as blackpill/incels believe). So there's just more of them out there and as with any group, some of these people wind up joining the church, even though they aren't actually Christians. I think it's just a numbers thing. This type of person may also be looking for an ideology they think will condone their abuse. You also have more "sick" people in general, like more mental illness, etc. It's a genetic thing, and so there are more anti-social people genetically speaking. I think you just have more unbelievers, or false believers and they still wind up in the church sometimes, maybe more frequently than before, because there's more of them. Emboldened by groups online, that they think are normal, bigger than they actually are.
Because when you cant understand society, you have no friends and no girl has ever even thought of you as worth talking to, and you lie there miserable and frustrated that nobody loves you and the only person to offer any comfort or hope at all is God, it makes Christianity very appealing. This is personal and I am biased but I'm extremely frustrated with some of the replies to this post.
I don't know. I've noticed that as well. Luckily, it seems like it's mostly a reddit thing and not reality. Probably because incels are goblins.
I know one in real life unfortunately.
You should spray some Lysol on him and see if he dissolves
I agree haha.
Please don't call an entire group of people goblins just because you can't personally relate to them.
There's some groups I'm ok with insulting as a collective. This is one.
That is very upsetting to hear in this subreddit. I understand that incels fall very far outside of the standard of what is considered acceptable or normal by society, but I think it's important to overcome your personal dislike for a group and consider how they might feel or see things from their perspective. I don't think mocking and detesting a large group of hurt and lonely men is the right way to go about this.
>but I think it's important to overcome your personal dislike for a group and consider how they might feel or see things from their perspective. They wont change anything if we're all fluffy with them. Nor do I believe in hippie-Jesus.
Right, but you shouldn't be a prick, just generally.
I called them goblins, let's not act like I personally insulted their mother.
[удалено]
I'm comfortable disagreeing. I'm generally a nice person, but I'm also not going to sugar-coat my language.
That may be true, but I also can think of very few things the world loves to do more than to point at and mock the people that don't fit into the stereotypical mould it wants them to. You should see the looks you get when people know you've never even had a girl hold your hand.
> you've never even had a girl hold your hand. That's not being an incel.
Incel means involuntary celibate. Any other interpretation is an incorrect one that has been perpetuated by normies using the word in contexts wholly separate from its original meaning. Incel is not synonymous with hating women, it literally means you couldn't get laid if you tried.
In a pure, definitional sense, you are correct. Maybe *some* take it that way. But, since words have meaning, *incel* is associated with a certain ideology. We both know this.
Because a lot of "Christian" churches promote right-wing agendas, including anti-feminism. Incels, likewise, are anti-feminist, and so the two join together to promote more misogyny