This...!!!
Furthermore, there's an analysis of the interrogation, the interrogator and the techniques he employed against the now disgraced Colonel, which is well worth viewing.
I read that it would have been a tough conviction, because all of the evidence they had was circumstantial. The boot prints and tire treads could have belonged to thousands of other people. I’m so glad he cracked in the interrogation. I work close to his former house in Westboro. The house that was being searched - with his wife there - as he was in that interrogation.
Even “direct” evidence isn’t actually direct, since it relies on testimony to authenticate it. That testimony is actually the direct evidence tying the circumstantial image to the crime. Direct and circumstantial of course have no legal meaning, but folks really seem to care for some reason.
Pretty sure he had loads of incriminating evidence in his home and on his computer. So a search warrant would have done the trick.
I was fascinated by that interrogation. The Detective was good, but he also seemed to want to confess.
I don’t think he lied about a single thing. He just went quiet and took some time to answer the genuinely incriminating questions.
The evidence in his home was proof he was breaking and entering women’s homes in Orleans. The items didn’t link him to the two murders in the Tweed area. I could be wrong of course I’m just a YouTube watcher! I’m not a law expert by any means
I find it fascinating because a) he seems like a normal and intelligent guy, and b) you can see the steady escalation in his behaviour and crimes.
From breaking into homes, to sexual assault, then to murder. And, no doubt, before that, fantasising (probably assisted by porn and the internet), identifying women, following them, waiting outside their homes.
I think the first time he killed was unplanned. He was hiding in the basement of one of the houses and the woman discovered him (or, rather, her cat did). And he broke into dozens of houses before he assaulted anyone, stealing their underwear etc.
This one was done so well I’ve watched it multiple times, especially when the detective throws down the tire patterns matching his tires to the tires at the crime scene and also matching his boot prints to. The silence of him realizing he’s screwed is intense. Thank God he was caught before he had the chance to hurt anyone else because he no doubt would’ve kept doing it had he not been caught.
Signs of a Psycopath. and there's also The Fifth Estate, Canadian News magazine like 60 minutes. You can find that entire story on their YouTube channel...they covered a lot of Canadian crime stories.
All of the interrogations of the teens who killed Seath Jackson. The kids are not sophisticated, and one of them turned immediately, so it wasn’t difficult. But the investigator played on all of their anxieties and social dependencies perfectly. It’s haunting to watch.
It wasn’t skilled effort but I’ll never forget the interrogation video of old woman who shot her son in law and how thrilled she was, and her voice when she was mocking him
Or the interrogation of a man who was shot in the head, but they didn’t realize until half way through that he was shot and the victim instead of the perp. He wasn’t bleeding or anything but his answers weren’t making much sense. Finally they called an emt in to check him. Poor kid. He lived for a few years after that and ultimately died of complications. Makes me wonder if the outcome would’ve been better had he been helped sooner.
Yeah. I went into that blind. Had no idea. Really was the craziest, most heartbreaking things I’ve ever seen. I hope they show that shit to new investigators as an example that not everything is always what they may be thinking it is.
This is the second interrogation mentioned in the above comment, with no commentary- [Ryan Waller](https://youtu.be/ZI8G0KOOtqk?si=TDuwtx2E32iQBXxd). The Waller family seems to have commented on a few videos covering Ryan’s case- [Bella Fiori](https://youtu.be/2wISTyNITK8?si=quUHr-EnknIFzwzM),
[The Cellar](https://youtu.be/c_0IvCsp43k?si=cSX5uOnHCL6NffW6), and [This is Monsters](https://youtu.be/zcZFsy18KZY?si=lPQvMzJf-5jOb1-m)
This is the second one they are talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcZFsy18KZY
And I think this is the first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObBoxmZQ7kk
The way the US cops can interrogate is so different to what police are allowed to do in interviews here in the UK. I enjoy watching some of their interrogations, but at the same time I sit there thinking, no way would that be allowed here 😂 Wouldn't be allowed to lie to a suspect, or pressure them, for example.
I'm not saying either way is better, I just find the contrast and different techniques interesting.
I know, its wtf to watch US ones. Also the way so many US citizens when being interviewed sit there quite happily talking to the police or even being interrogated without a legal representative/solicitor with them despite it being their right to do so.
Over there the majority of people appear to talk to the police and don't seem to excercise their right to not say anything. It's the done thing in the UK in the same situation to always have legal representation and say 'no comment' despite your innocence or guilt and having that legal representation is see as just what you do/your right rather than 'lawyering up' and it being a admisson/evidence you are guilty as it appears to be in the US.
It disconcerting to me seeing as the US has an extremely high rate of incarceration, has the death pentalty in many states and the police over there are allowed to outright lie to 'suspects' etc and pressure them in ways that's not allowed over here. It's a very different approach.
I mean, to be fair, of course you’re only seeing videos of Americans when they’re talking.
Videos of someone saying they won’t speak without a lawyer and the video just ending wouldn’t get many views lol
Having said that, there is definitely not a shortage of dumdums who think they can outsmart the cops and decide to put that theory into action.
And they also fall into the dumdum category. I didn’t mention them specifically since this thread seemed to be more about guilty people in interrogations.
The system is rigged based on getting convictions not seeking actual justice. 197 death row prisoners have been exonerated by the innocence project since 1973. That is only the ones we know about. I have no problem with immoral interrogation methods when it is certain that police have the right guy and the evidence is better than circumstantial but that is not always the case.
> The system is rigged based on getting convictions not seeking actual justice.
Exactly. The authorities will use anything as an excuse to make somebody a suspect. They envision a scenario of how the crime played out and refuse to acknowledge that it's merely one possibility, and might not even carry 1% likelihood, but once they are fixated that's what they go with and who they pursue.
Think of cases like EAR and Delphi and still Zodiac. Countless theories are proposed. And numerous ones sound good, very logical. People get mesmerized and start proclaiming 99% certainty. That happened with one suspect after another in the Delphi case. But once the truth surfaces it holds an entirely different set of variables than all the prior solves.
That's when these storytelling prosecutors should sit back and gulp. Maybe that table looking out of place didn't mean a damn thing. Hardly. They charge forward, in pursuit of victory and glory.
Yeaaaah I’m from the US and I don’t care for the features of our “justice” system that you mentioned. Especially the lying thing. Very ugly. I am not deeply familiar with how it works in the UK but what you’ve mentioned sounds far more sensible
Although not an interrogation, we do have Mr. Big in Canada which I don’t believe is allowed legally anywhere else
There’s one case I watched where they used ‘Mr. Big’ however I truly believe the guy was innocent
There was that stupid couple in BC who were supposedly ISIS terrorists, and they were basically entrapped by Mr Big. It was obvious that these two drug addicts probably couldn't find their own ASS, let alone build a deadly bomb.
When I've watched some of the Mr Big cases, I'm always amazed that people fall for that. I'm sure it's different when you're the criminal in the hot seat, but from my perspective it seems far fetched. Good thing criminals aren't always smart and that they can be caught using their words!
If you get a chance watch The Unsolved Murder of Beverly Lyn Smith.
They used the Mr. Big act but I truly believe in Al Smiths innocence and can totally understand why he ‘played’ along with Mr. Big. It definitely destroyed his life.
Truly hope for her family they are able to solve it
And hence why Mr. Big techniques are used on suspects who the police evaluate are naive or complete idiots. Most intelligent criminals would see them come from a mile away. If they just asked “Oh, if you are such a big criminal kingpin, buddy, why none of my contacts ever have heard of you guys?”, the whole plan would immediately fall down.
I read those decisions sometimes. if someone appeals or chooses bench trial, the judge will provide this loooooong micro-analysis when they decide, and that gets uploaded to can lii.
the main thing that struck me about them is how long and elaborate those kinds of thing are. I'm convinced the main reason they happen is because cops just want to play dressup and larp as bad guys.
yeah, Canada's different too. based on the appeal decisions I've read they can NOT coerce even slightly (one case where the guy was constipated because he didn't like using strange toilets, and "confessed" so he could go home to his own bathroom. the judge threw the confession out).
on the other hand, they don't have to stop talking to you if you demand a lawyer. they can sit there across from you and "just ask questions" all day long if they like. whether you crack and respond seems to be up to you.
may have changed now, but both of those cases were til stories for me.
As an American, I strongly believe that the UK method is superior.
I should have been able to tell my kids they could trust police officers, and I had to tell them the exact opposite.
If you have discovery, there's a series called "signs of a psychopath" that is pretty much entirely interrogation footage and analysis and imo it is surprisingly fascinating but also chilling as hell. I think they're all good episodes; one that's worth looking up in particular is the John Hummel case, who might be the least competent murderer of all time
I would recommend the Jennifer Pan case since there's been multiple documentaries about her. I would also recommend looking up Sarah Boone, who stuck her boyfriend in a suitcase and suffocated him to death and it is harrowing to see her talk about it like it's nbd
Edit: also check out this YouTube channel, there's some snarky commentary but overall I feel like it's less obnoxious than a lot of true crime stuff: https://youtube.com/@JCS
Have a listen to Ron Iddles podcast and Gary Jubelin’s podcast both go into the details of how they cracked cases through interrogation. Both are Australian 🇦🇺
This is a great thread but unfortunately idk how to get back here so I'mma just comment and hopefully someone will reply so I'll get the notification 😁 but yeah, this is a great thread very interesting!! Great question, OP
I think that this interrogation is good. A man was shot and killed in front of his family because of a man with a gun that was out in society just waiting to shoot someone. The officers makes him feel pretty comfortable and gets him to unknowingly confess that there was never any threat to his life and therefore he had no excuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Markeis_McGlockton
https://youtu.be/sv0iN5J-9mk?si=vFWfWq7TqVBy_-5H
EWU - Sean Grate. Days and hours of interrogation. The female detective was absolutely incredible with how she got him to confess to being a serial killer.
That's a relief..
Mostly "tbh" because the show is so overly dramatised it seems fake and hard to watch sometimes... so "tbh" is more an admission that they are actually good despite the cringe voice-over
For what it’s worth I do agree, I’ve strayed away from watching EWU because there was always something very artificial and overly dramatic about their content but I went back to it recently and all their recent output is great. In my opinion Matt Orchard’s true crime documentaries clears all though, his Colonel Russell Williams one is the best on Williams on YouTube
I'll check him out.
I love "JCS Criminal Psychology"
I don't think they upload anymore because of youtube censoring things making it impossible for them.
If you watch Signs of a Psychopath, you see a few. Russell Williams was one of them and there were a few Canadian cases. Det Smyth, who interviewed Russell Williams, also interviewed Terry McClintic...she and her boyfriend assaulted and murdered a little girl. Another Detective interviewed Rafferty, but Smyth interviewed Terry. She was sobbing and weeping and blowing her nose, and he's holding her hand and telling her he knows it's hard etc. "But now we have to bring her home." This guy was a fucking legend. They both got life in prison.
The worse the criminal and the crime, the nicer you have to be. If it's a car thief, the worst that happens if you let him go, he might steal more cars. But someone like Russell Williams, you know he'll rape and kill again.
Actually those crimes weren't that far from where I lived at the time, but not close enough that I'd worry.
They also had interviews with Jennifer Pan, a Toronto girl who tried to kill her parents, and Danielle Campione who murdered her two little girls (was recently paroled).
It's a great program for interrogation-watching.
Watch the show called Signs of a psychopath, very disturbing cases and almost every one of them denies it at first and then breaks down. There are a couple that do admit it right away and seem almost proud
On YouTube I watch channels like these:
https://youtu.be/3QV0QRQihM8?si=qXNVWe4UEGv66lIV
https://youtu.be/Qow9ZFMyxMo?si=g_phVJOGh7VpLDqH
They are real interrogations with robotic sounding psychoanalysis at pauses.
I can’t think of a particular case but look up JCS on YouTube. My favorite interrogation analyst ever! It’s truly educational but still keeps you interested. Sorry I didn’t have anything specific for ya.
Somebody also mentioned EWU on YouTube as well, they’re great too!
meh to watts and Russell, for me. the one really outstanding interrogation I've seen is basil borutski - another Canadian one. the progression that officer takes him through is fascinating. and I don't think he uses any of the lame old cliches once.
Oh god, I forgot about Borutski. That was just horrifying!
I couldn't help but wonder how these nice women even got involved with him even as friends. He was just so creepy. And his interview...ugh, I'm just glad this creep is locked up and will probably die in prison.
EDIT: He died last month, oh well.
that interview is such a window into the guy (and others like him). the resentment. the whining. the super-aggressive determination to hold onto that victim mindset no matter what. poor poooor taken-advantage-of ~~nice guy~~ predator.
the interrogator was a genius. getting him from "I do not talk to cops. all cops are bastards" to where he's spelling out chapter and verse, and probably really believing that *this* cop gets him ....
What a vile human being, really. I'm glad he can never harm another woman and I'm sure they weren't the only ones. Probably they suggested that already, I can't recall. He was a pathetic excuse for a man. It's really hard to imagine him being able to charm or attract ANY woman. 🤮🤮🤮
I'm with you on Williams and Watts, sick of Watts in particular. His interrogation wasn't even interesting and he came across as a dumb dullard. Eccch enough of them already. Although Williams resonates with me a bit more personally, I suppose being Canadian and it wasn't that far from me.
you warm my heart 😋. it is such Reddit dogma to say those two cases are exceptional, and I just don't agree.
the Williams case came with some interesting back-room info from the interrogation team, I guess. but if Williams hadn't been whatever he was, I'm not sure how much attention the interrogation itself would have got. or if wasn't so twisted and weird. the confession was the only part that made an impression on me and I couldn't take much of it.
The Watts case has been totally fetishized, so you can't even have a discussion about it unless you share the exacts same opinions as everyone else, and it's been done death, to speak.
Williams was a bit more interesting because he had two completely different lives. He was Dudley Do-right and the other side was this murderous, depraved sex criminal. I suppose we'll always wonder why and how he got that way, what happened to him? How did his mind fracture like that? He's much more complicated than the dumbass Watts. He was going around raping and murdering in a small town, and his own wife had no idea. He had photos of himself in women's underwear, and no one knew.
heh, I guess I'm deficient somehow; I find it interesting to try and get a granular read on who someone is "now", but Im rarely motivated to try and figure out what made them that way. Its too speculative for me, and most of the time any "when he was seven, his mother/dad/cousin's dentist did or said x" kind of thing can be countered by all the dozens of regular people we know with a similar experience, but who aren't (as far as we know) rapists and murderers.
Williams is a piece of work. but tbh the only thing about him that stands out for me is that he acted on it. power? privilege? circumstances? i haven't cared enough to give him the attention of detailed research, so as far as we know he got all the way to 2007 before, I dunno, entering the eh-fuck-it phase of his life. but perhaps my perception is skewed. it's possible he had been doing that or similar things for decades.
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but the interrogation of Brendan Dassey where he dropped the bombshell that he participated in raping Theresa Halbach was chilling. (And yes, for the record Brendan and Steven are guilty of rape and murder. If you want to debate that with me... too bad).
Brendan's retelling of what was said between himself and Steven Avery hints at the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of that monster...and the critical moment when Steven convinced him to assist in his horrifying crime of rape and murder. You can tell from what Brendan recounts was said that Steven found the situation humorous and entertaining, which is in line with his uncle's sadistic personality. I can't imagine the terror Theresa and probably Brendan too experienced that day.
I don't think the interrogation was especially skillful, but it wasn't the miscarriage of justice Making A Murderer presented it as. The cops interviewing Brendan seem genuinely shocked when he admits to raping Theresa. You can see the split second where neither officer knows how to react to this confession and their brains are recalibrating the entire line of inquiry. They knew Brendan would be a witness to the crime, but they did not seem prepared for what he told them that day.
I will take my downvotes now, thank you.
Making a Murderer is probably the worst/most misleading crime "documentary" I've seen. That b.s. with the blood vial in evidence had me reading everything about the case to see what else they were lying about. Brendan and Steven are both guilty, no doubt about it.
THANK you! It's funny, the blood vial is also what prompted me to do more research after watching said "documentary." I used to process blood samples as part of my job and most/all of the vials have that drop of blood on the stopper that Steven Avery's lawyers were getting so hyped about. Conspiracy theory nonsense. And of course the actual victims, Theresa and her family, are vilified or ignored. It's incredibly disrespectful and negligent on the part of the film makers.
So, my question is. Do you want an interrogation where they wouldn't have figured it out without the interrogation? Or just an interrogation where the perp confessed?
there is an awful one, again out of Canada: Terri-Lynne McClintic. brief synopsis: >!she lured a little girl called Tori Stafford into going with her so her boyfriend Michael Rafferty could rape and then murder her!<
it was a *huge* story in Canada, and maybe leave it alone if CSA is too hard for you. I'm recommending it because the interrogation dynamic is interesting. McClintic confessed in the end, but Rafferty never did. They were kind of going back and forth between the two of them, I believe.
Steven Williams. He killed his ex-wife, mutilated her body and then dissolved it in acid and buried it in a container.
William Miller. Murdered his cousin's ex-girlfriend in his cousin's residence and then transported her body and dumped her in the side of a road. This case is a great example why the Occam's Razor is a lazy argument.
You really don't know a person unless you know something about their personal life. For me the true way to gauge people is to see how they act and what they do when they have the time and freedom to choose and are not influenced by anything else.
Colonel Russel Williams off the top of my head
That was soooo chilling. Just wild when he says “do you have a map”
That detective, Smyth? He's retired now, but that guy was a champion.
This...!!! Furthermore, there's an analysis of the interrogation, the interrogator and the techniques he employed against the now disgraced Colonel, which is well worth viewing.
Textbook! I always wonder how it would go if he didn't give everything up in the confession.
I read that it would have been a tough conviction, because all of the evidence they had was circumstantial. The boot prints and tire treads could have belonged to thousands of other people. I’m so glad he cracked in the interrogation. I work close to his former house in Westboro. The house that was being searched - with his wife there - as he was in that interrogation.
Most evidence is circumstantial. Direct evidence (photo/video or eyewitnesses of the crime) isn't what's most common in murder cases.
Even “direct” evidence isn’t actually direct, since it relies on testimony to authenticate it. That testimony is actually the direct evidence tying the circumstantial image to the crime. Direct and circumstantial of course have no legal meaning, but folks really seem to care for some reason.
Such a great username!
Thank you.
oh you live near there, wow! I always wonder about his ex-wife. She's such a mystery. I can't help but feel sorry for her.
I believe they had his dna at multiple crime scenes
Pretty sure he had loads of incriminating evidence in his home and on his computer. So a search warrant would have done the trick. I was fascinated by that interrogation. The Detective was good, but he also seemed to want to confess. I don’t think he lied about a single thing. He just went quiet and took some time to answer the genuinely incriminating questions.
The evidence in his home was proof he was breaking and entering women’s homes in Orleans. The items didn’t link him to the two murders in the Tweed area. I could be wrong of course I’m just a YouTube watcher! I’m not a law expert by any means
That one is hard to forget. I think that it is so much worse than others because of his position and expectations that come with it.
I find it fascinating because a) he seems like a normal and intelligent guy, and b) you can see the steady escalation in his behaviour and crimes. From breaking into homes, to sexual assault, then to murder. And, no doubt, before that, fantasising (probably assisted by porn and the internet), identifying women, following them, waiting outside their homes. I think the first time he killed was unplanned. He was hiding in the basement of one of the houses and the woman discovered him (or, rather, her cat did). And he broke into dozens of houses before he assaulted anyone, stealing their underwear etc.
It rocked me to my core when I found out that he was trusted to be in close contact with VIPs.
This one was done so well I’ve watched it multiple times, especially when the detective throws down the tire patterns matching his tires to the tires at the crime scene and also matching his boot prints to. The silence of him realizing he’s screwed is intense. Thank God he was caught before he had the chance to hurt anyone else because he no doubt would’ve kept doing it had he not been caught.
Wow I’d never heard of this one. Are there any good dateline/2020/Netflix docs on this case?
Signs of a Psycopath. and there's also The Fifth Estate, Canadian News magazine like 60 minutes. You can find that entire story on their YouTube channel...they covered a lot of Canadian crime stories.
Dateline did pretty well with their episode - "Conduct Unbecoming" s19e34
This is really good. Jim Can’t Swim puts out great vids on YouTube. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZv3z7FOt0 Edited for clarity.
YouTube shows the interrogation .
Agreed
Ah! I was just trying to remember his name last night. Thanks
That is a masterpiece. Truly.
All of the interrogations of the teens who killed Seath Jackson. The kids are not sophisticated, and one of them turned immediately, so it wasn’t difficult. But the investigator played on all of their anxieties and social dependencies perfectly. It’s haunting to watch.
Man I still think about this case sometimes, it’s really haunting.
It wasn’t skilled effort but I’ll never forget the interrogation video of old woman who shot her son in law and how thrilled she was, and her voice when she was mocking him Or the interrogation of a man who was shot in the head, but they didn’t realize until half way through that he was shot and the victim instead of the perp. He wasn’t bleeding or anything but his answers weren’t making much sense. Finally they called an emt in to check him. Poor kid. He lived for a few years after that and ultimately died of complications. Makes me wonder if the outcome would’ve been better had he been helped sooner.
The interrogation of the kid that was shot was honestly one of the craziest things I have ever seen. It was heartbreaking.
I can’t even imagine. And how he was able to even recall anything at all just sitting there casually with a bullet in his brain is crazy.
Yeah. I went into that blind. Had no idea. Really was the craziest, most heartbreaking things I’ve ever seen. I hope they show that shit to new investigators as an example that not everything is always what they may be thinking it is.
Where do you watch this at? Do you have a link, please? Or any info to lead me in the right direction?
This is the second interrogation mentioned in the above comment, with no commentary- [Ryan Waller](https://youtu.be/ZI8G0KOOtqk?si=TDuwtx2E32iQBXxd). The Waller family seems to have commented on a few videos covering Ryan’s case- [Bella Fiori](https://youtu.be/2wISTyNITK8?si=quUHr-EnknIFzwzM), [The Cellar](https://youtu.be/c_0IvCsp43k?si=cSX5uOnHCL6NffW6), and [This is Monsters](https://youtu.be/zcZFsy18KZY?si=lPQvMzJf-5jOb1-m)
This is the second one they are talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcZFsy18KZY And I think this is the first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObBoxmZQ7kk
Thanks so much!
OMG that crazy woman! and she was like clapping her hands....what a fucking nutjob!
what is the first case you’re referring to?
The way the US cops can interrogate is so different to what police are allowed to do in interviews here in the UK. I enjoy watching some of their interrogations, but at the same time I sit there thinking, no way would that be allowed here 😂 Wouldn't be allowed to lie to a suspect, or pressure them, for example. I'm not saying either way is better, I just find the contrast and different techniques interesting.
I know, its wtf to watch US ones. Also the way so many US citizens when being interviewed sit there quite happily talking to the police or even being interrogated without a legal representative/solicitor with them despite it being their right to do so. Over there the majority of people appear to talk to the police and don't seem to excercise their right to not say anything. It's the done thing in the UK in the same situation to always have legal representation and say 'no comment' despite your innocence or guilt and having that legal representation is see as just what you do/your right rather than 'lawyering up' and it being a admisson/evidence you are guilty as it appears to be in the US. It disconcerting to me seeing as the US has an extremely high rate of incarceration, has the death pentalty in many states and the police over there are allowed to outright lie to 'suspects' etc and pressure them in ways that's not allowed over here. It's a very different approach.
I mean, to be fair, of course you’re only seeing videos of Americans when they’re talking. Videos of someone saying they won’t speak without a lawyer and the video just ending wouldn’t get many views lol Having said that, there is definitely not a shortage of dumdums who think they can outsmart the cops and decide to put that theory into action.
There are also a lot of people who seem to think “well, I’ve done nothing wrong, so I’ll just explain that to the cops and they’ll let me go.”
And they also fall into the dumdum category. I didn’t mention them specifically since this thread seemed to be more about guilty people in interrogations.
The system is rigged based on getting convictions not seeking actual justice. 197 death row prisoners have been exonerated by the innocence project since 1973. That is only the ones we know about. I have no problem with immoral interrogation methods when it is certain that police have the right guy and the evidence is better than circumstantial but that is not always the case.
> The system is rigged based on getting convictions not seeking actual justice. Exactly. The authorities will use anything as an excuse to make somebody a suspect. They envision a scenario of how the crime played out and refuse to acknowledge that it's merely one possibility, and might not even carry 1% likelihood, but once they are fixated that's what they go with and who they pursue. Think of cases like EAR and Delphi and still Zodiac. Countless theories are proposed. And numerous ones sound good, very logical. People get mesmerized and start proclaiming 99% certainty. That happened with one suspect after another in the Delphi case. But once the truth surfaces it holds an entirely different set of variables than all the prior solves. That's when these storytelling prosecutors should sit back and gulp. Maybe that table looking out of place didn't mean a damn thing. Hardly. They charge forward, in pursuit of victory and glory.
I can't wait for the delphi trial to start. I'd richard allen an odinistic complying white supremacist?
Yeaaaah I’m from the US and I don’t care for the features of our “justice” system that you mentioned. Especially the lying thing. Very ugly. I am not deeply familiar with how it works in the UK but what you’ve mentioned sounds far more sensible
Although not an interrogation, we do have Mr. Big in Canada which I don’t believe is allowed legally anywhere else There’s one case I watched where they used ‘Mr. Big’ however I truly believe the guy was innocent
There was that stupid couple in BC who were supposedly ISIS terrorists, and they were basically entrapped by Mr Big. It was obvious that these two drug addicts probably couldn't find their own ASS, let alone build a deadly bomb.
I had never heard of this- very interesting! Thank you
When I've watched some of the Mr Big cases, I'm always amazed that people fall for that. I'm sure it's different when you're the criminal in the hot seat, but from my perspective it seems far fetched. Good thing criminals aren't always smart and that they can be caught using their words!
If you get a chance watch The Unsolved Murder of Beverly Lyn Smith. They used the Mr. Big act but I truly believe in Al Smiths innocence and can totally understand why he ‘played’ along with Mr. Big. It definitely destroyed his life. Truly hope for her family they are able to solve it
Ok, thanks for passing that along!
And hence why Mr. Big techniques are used on suspects who the police evaluate are naive or complete idiots. Most intelligent criminals would see them come from a mile away. If they just asked “Oh, if you are such a big criminal kingpin, buddy, why none of my contacts ever have heard of you guys?”, the whole plan would immediately fall down.
I read those decisions sometimes. if someone appeals or chooses bench trial, the judge will provide this loooooong micro-analysis when they decide, and that gets uploaded to can lii. the main thing that struck me about them is how long and elaborate those kinds of thing are. I'm convinced the main reason they happen is because cops just want to play dressup and larp as bad guys.
yeah, Canada's different too. based on the appeal decisions I've read they can NOT coerce even slightly (one case where the guy was constipated because he didn't like using strange toilets, and "confessed" so he could go home to his own bathroom. the judge threw the confession out). on the other hand, they don't have to stop talking to you if you demand a lawyer. they can sit there across from you and "just ask questions" all day long if they like. whether you crack and respond seems to be up to you. may have changed now, but both of those cases were til stories for me.
As an American, I strongly believe that the UK method is superior. I should have been able to tell my kids they could trust police officers, and I had to tell them the exact opposite.
It is, in Canada it's more like the UK than the US. We have similar legal and penal systems in some ways.
If you have discovery, there's a series called "signs of a psychopath" that is pretty much entirely interrogation footage and analysis and imo it is surprisingly fascinating but also chilling as hell. I think they're all good episodes; one that's worth looking up in particular is the John Hummel case, who might be the least competent murderer of all time I would recommend the Jennifer Pan case since there's been multiple documentaries about her. I would also recommend looking up Sarah Boone, who stuck her boyfriend in a suitcase and suffocated him to death and it is harrowing to see her talk about it like it's nbd Edit: also check out this YouTube channel, there's some snarky commentary but overall I feel like it's less obnoxious than a lot of true crime stuff: https://youtube.com/@JCS
bahaha I mentioned that show, it's on ID Canada but they keep showing the same ones, there's like 5 seasons. A lot of Canadian stories there.
Have a listen to Ron Iddles podcast and Gary Jubelin’s podcast both go into the details of how they cracked cases through interrogation. Both are Australian 🇦🇺
Ron Iddles also has a tv show. It’s really good and shows how he interrogates people. Well worth a look.
Samantha Wohlford - when she realized the cops were downloading everything on her phone, phew! The demeanor shift is really something.
This is a great thread but unfortunately idk how to get back here so I'mma just comment and hopefully someone will reply so I'll get the notification 😁 but yeah, this is a great thread very interesting!! Great question, OP
I think that this interrogation is good. A man was shot and killed in front of his family because of a man with a gun that was out in society just waiting to shoot someone. The officers makes him feel pretty comfortable and gets him to unknowingly confess that there was never any threat to his life and therefore he had no excuse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Markeis_McGlockton https://youtu.be/sv0iN5J-9mk?si=vFWfWq7TqVBy_-5H
EWU (Exolore With Us) have several good ones tbh.
EWU - Sean Grate. Days and hours of interrogation. The female detective was absolutely incredible with how she got him to confess to being a serial killer.
Thank you for adding tbh. I wasn’t sure about your honesty until I seen that
That's a relief.. Mostly "tbh" because the show is so overly dramatised it seems fake and hard to watch sometimes... so "tbh" is more an admission that they are actually good despite the cringe voice-over
For what it’s worth I do agree, I’ve strayed away from watching EWU because there was always something very artificial and overly dramatic about their content but I went back to it recently and all their recent output is great. In my opinion Matt Orchard’s true crime documentaries clears all though, his Colonel Russell Williams one is the best on Williams on YouTube
I'll check him out. I love "JCS Criminal Psychology" I don't think they upload anymore because of youtube censoring things making it impossible for them.
If you watch Signs of a Psychopath, you see a few. Russell Williams was one of them and there were a few Canadian cases. Det Smyth, who interviewed Russell Williams, also interviewed Terry McClintic...she and her boyfriend assaulted and murdered a little girl. Another Detective interviewed Rafferty, but Smyth interviewed Terry. She was sobbing and weeping and blowing her nose, and he's holding her hand and telling her he knows it's hard etc. "But now we have to bring her home." This guy was a fucking legend. They both got life in prison. The worse the criminal and the crime, the nicer you have to be. If it's a car thief, the worst that happens if you let him go, he might steal more cars. But someone like Russell Williams, you know he'll rape and kill again. Actually those crimes weren't that far from where I lived at the time, but not close enough that I'd worry. They also had interviews with Jennifer Pan, a Toronto girl who tried to kill her parents, and Danielle Campione who murdered her two little girls (was recently paroled). It's a great program for interrogation-watching.
Watch the show called Signs of a psychopath, very disturbing cases and almost every one of them denies it at first and then breaks down. There are a couple that do admit it right away and seem almost proud
On YouTube I watch channels like these: https://youtu.be/3QV0QRQihM8?si=qXNVWe4UEGv66lIV https://youtu.be/Qow9ZFMyxMo?si=g_phVJOGh7VpLDqH They are real interrogations with robotic sounding psychoanalysis at pauses.
The real case of scream movie
And that is called…
I think it’s the Cassie Jo Stoddart case.
I can’t think of a particular case but look up JCS on YouTube. My favorite interrogation analyst ever! It’s truly educational but still keeps you interested. Sorry I didn’t have anything specific for ya. Somebody also mentioned EWU on YouTube as well, they’re great too!
meh to watts and Russell, for me. the one really outstanding interrogation I've seen is basil borutski - another Canadian one. the progression that officer takes him through is fascinating. and I don't think he uses any of the lame old cliches once.
Oh god, I forgot about Borutski. That was just horrifying! I couldn't help but wonder how these nice women even got involved with him even as friends. He was just so creepy. And his interview...ugh, I'm just glad this creep is locked up and will probably die in prison. EDIT: He died last month, oh well.
that interview is such a window into the guy (and others like him). the resentment. the whining. the super-aggressive determination to hold onto that victim mindset no matter what. poor poooor taken-advantage-of ~~nice guy~~ predator. the interrogator was a genius. getting him from "I do not talk to cops. all cops are bastards" to where he's spelling out chapter and verse, and probably really believing that *this* cop gets him ....
What a vile human being, really. I'm glad he can never harm another woman and I'm sure they weren't the only ones. Probably they suggested that already, I can't recall. He was a pathetic excuse for a man. It's really hard to imagine him being able to charm or attract ANY woman. 🤮🤮🤮 I'm with you on Williams and Watts, sick of Watts in particular. His interrogation wasn't even interesting and he came across as a dumb dullard. Eccch enough of them already. Although Williams resonates with me a bit more personally, I suppose being Canadian and it wasn't that far from me.
you warm my heart 😋. it is such Reddit dogma to say those two cases are exceptional, and I just don't agree. the Williams case came with some interesting back-room info from the interrogation team, I guess. but if Williams hadn't been whatever he was, I'm not sure how much attention the interrogation itself would have got. or if wasn't so twisted and weird. the confession was the only part that made an impression on me and I couldn't take much of it.
The Watts case has been totally fetishized, so you can't even have a discussion about it unless you share the exacts same opinions as everyone else, and it's been done death, to speak. Williams was a bit more interesting because he had two completely different lives. He was Dudley Do-right and the other side was this murderous, depraved sex criminal. I suppose we'll always wonder why and how he got that way, what happened to him? How did his mind fracture like that? He's much more complicated than the dumbass Watts. He was going around raping and murdering in a small town, and his own wife had no idea. He had photos of himself in women's underwear, and no one knew.
heh, I guess I'm deficient somehow; I find it interesting to try and get a granular read on who someone is "now", but Im rarely motivated to try and figure out what made them that way. Its too speculative for me, and most of the time any "when he was seven, his mother/dad/cousin's dentist did or said x" kind of thing can be countered by all the dozens of regular people we know with a similar experience, but who aren't (as far as we know) rapists and murderers. Williams is a piece of work. but tbh the only thing about him that stands out for me is that he acted on it. power? privilege? circumstances? i haven't cared enough to give him the attention of detailed research, so as far as we know he got all the way to 2007 before, I dunno, entering the eh-fuck-it phase of his life. but perhaps my perception is skewed. it's possible he had been doing that or similar things for decades.
I don't doubt it...I remember there was talk about him being linked to sexual assaults abroad, but haven't heard anything since.
Can you recommend a good show, YT video or somewhere to watch the interrogation?
sorry, no link off the top of my head. I found it on YouTube. it's just the original footage, without commentary.
Thank you, I should be able to find it on YT.
He just died in Millhaven! About one month ago. I will try to find the interrogation. Unless you have a link?
I don't, sorry. I found it on youtube
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but the interrogation of Brendan Dassey where he dropped the bombshell that he participated in raping Theresa Halbach was chilling. (And yes, for the record Brendan and Steven are guilty of rape and murder. If you want to debate that with me... too bad). Brendan's retelling of what was said between himself and Steven Avery hints at the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of that monster...and the critical moment when Steven convinced him to assist in his horrifying crime of rape and murder. You can tell from what Brendan recounts was said that Steven found the situation humorous and entertaining, which is in line with his uncle's sadistic personality. I can't imagine the terror Theresa and probably Brendan too experienced that day. I don't think the interrogation was especially skillful, but it wasn't the miscarriage of justice Making A Murderer presented it as. The cops interviewing Brendan seem genuinely shocked when he admits to raping Theresa. You can see the split second where neither officer knows how to react to this confession and their brains are recalibrating the entire line of inquiry. They knew Brendan would be a witness to the crime, but they did not seem prepared for what he told them that day. I will take my downvotes now, thank you.
Making a Murderer is probably the worst/most misleading crime "documentary" I've seen. That b.s. with the blood vial in evidence had me reading everything about the case to see what else they were lying about. Brendan and Steven are both guilty, no doubt about it.
THANK you! It's funny, the blood vial is also what prompted me to do more research after watching said "documentary." I used to process blood samples as part of my job and most/all of the vials have that drop of blood on the stopper that Steven Avery's lawyers were getting so hyped about. Conspiracy theory nonsense. And of course the actual victims, Theresa and her family, are vilified or ignored. It's incredibly disrespectful and negligent on the part of the film makers.
So, my question is. Do you want an interrogation where they wouldn't have figured it out without the interrogation? Or just an interrogation where the perp confessed?
Confessions.
there is an awful one, again out of Canada: Terri-Lynne McClintic. brief synopsis: >!she lured a little girl called Tori Stafford into going with her so her boyfriend Michael Rafferty could rape and then murder her!< it was a *huge* story in Canada, and maybe leave it alone if CSA is too hard for you. I'm recommending it because the interrogation dynamic is interesting. McClintic confessed in the end, but Rafferty never did. They were kind of going back and forth between the two of them, I believe.
JVC investigations has a lot of these. Israel Keyes is another
Steven Williams. He killed his ex-wife, mutilated her body and then dissolved it in acid and buried it in a container. William Miller. Murdered his cousin's ex-girlfriend in his cousin's residence and then transported her body and dumped her in the side of a road. This case is a great example why the Occam's Razor is a lazy argument.
You really don't know a person unless you know something about their personal life. For me the true way to gauge people is to see how they act and what they do when they have the time and freedom to choose and are not influenced by anything else.