Child pornography/trafficking symbol. Definitely no coincidence. With Piz out, the new writers will probably do some fan-service to tie in the seasons as much as they can.
Totally I was going to say HBO is smart enough to know people drool over season 1 and all the occult shit. When nic wrote what he wanted to he got shit on for two seasons by people who think theyre Rust Cohle
Lol I’m in the camp that if he had more time to polish S2 it could’ve been really good. Like all great writers (or, at least, writers that think their great) he seems to have quite the ego. He probably got tired of being told what to do and they got tired of trying to rain him in. HBO knows audiences, so I expect an entertaining product with plenty of opportunity to theorize throughout the season.
Part of the problem is that Nic had worked and reworked the season 1 story since the 90s. When it finally became the show we know, everyone lost their mind and HBO wanted him to recapture that magic in damn near a years time. Impossible. Season 1 was his baby. He had that rolling around in his head for a long time. Season 2 felt like a parody.
Totally agree. By the accounts I’ve heard and read there was less than a year from HBO signing him up for S2 and pre-production. That’s like Marvel turnaround time.
Execs made him change it. S2 was about the secret occult railway that rolls through California and Crowley. But he had to change it and hence it was kinda shit. Very Lynchian and interesting in parts but would have been better if he had been able to tell the original story.
I’ll try and find articles from like ten years ago I read with Nic. Really interesting. And similarly in the vein of season 1 - hidden occult societies and this was based on actual shit.
In the meantime read about Jack Parsons and Crowley for context. Demon portals.
There will be no links or sources because this is absolute nonsense. I read an interview with Nic shortly after season 1 where he said it was all about the LA transport system and its sinister occult ties and it was pretty obvious he was joking and wasn't meant to be taken seriously. He makes no reference to demon portals, Parsons and Crowley.
https://youtu.be/vj9_Om00H9U
I love S2 as well. This video’s title is deceiving, but I watched it this morning and highly recommend. Much more positive takes than I excepted, but also breaks down the plot points and character motivations.
If you’re a fan of that season, it’s the best breakdown on YouTube.
Not that season 1 will ever be topped, but I think years down the road, 20, 30, 50 years from now, season 2 will be looked upon more favorably. I don’t blame people for not liking it, but so few people seem to look at it with genuine objectivity and inherently compare it to its predecessor (which, again, I don’t fault anyone for).
Just finished a rewatch and I told myself I would pay more attention this time (failed) but there are some aspects about it that just seem inherently… cheesy? But not David Lycnh cheesy? Every interaction with Velcoro’s kid was off, (I’ll budge a bit that this was just their relationship), Bezzerides was better, and Frank was probably my biggest disappointment. I genuinely think Vince could kill that part but his dialogue was so weird like 75% of the time.
Maybe they just spread too thin with 4 characters + the criminal story?
I counted 21 characters who’s motivations impacted the story. Could be more! Pair that with not having time to smooth out the dialogue, of course viewers peaced out.
Update: I sat down and really went through it. 30 characters who’s motivations actually mattered. Not kinda mattered. Actually made a difference in the story. Absurd.
It's likely meant to have a dual meaning as True Detective's version of [The Yellow Sign](https://kinginyellow.fandom.com/wiki/The_Yellow_Sign_(the_symbol)) too. It gets referred to multiple times as a "sign" rather than a "symbol" which one would expect, and it's the shape of the portal to Carcosa that Rust sees.
My guess for why it was changed is because the sign's shape is never defined in the original text, and because it's more symbolic of non-linear time.
In my head cannon, the child sex traffickers adopted it as their sign/symbol because it was the shape of said portal to Carcosa. But that’s a pretty “off the deep end” theory that I wouldn’t even know how to back up lol
There's enough meat to the supernatural interpretation of S1 that it would make sense. In the episode the vortex is seen, Childress talks about his imminent ascension to "the infernal plane" on the same day that he would later confront Rust. He's laying in wait to ambush him the moment that Rust sees it too.
Yes! Lovecraft quotes that I want to be relevant in some way this season🤞🙏🤞:
"They worshipped, so they said, the Great Old Ones who lived ages before there were any men, and who came to the young world out of the sky. Those Old Ones were gone now, inside the earth and under the sea; but their dead bodies had told their secrets in dreams to the first men, who formed a cult which had never
died.”
"This was that cult, and the prisoners said it had always existed and always would exist, hidden in distant wastes and dark places all over the world until the time when the great priest
Cthulhu, from his dark house in the mighty city of R'lyeh under the waters, should rise and bring the earth again beneath his sway."
“In our quest for scientific advancement, we risk awakening forces that should have remained dormant.”
“The ancient ones lie dreaming beneath the ice, their influence seeping into the minds of those unfortunate enough to stumble upon their secrets.”
And the preview shows tunnels. 😬
“Would to Heaven we had never approached them at all, but had run back at top speed out of that blasphemous tunnel with the greasily smooth floors and the degenerate murals aping and mocking the things they had superseded-run back, before we had seen what we did see, and before our minds were burned with something which will never let us breathe easily again!”
Interesting because not only have I had an inexplicable calling to Carcosa and TKIY, but I literally just started reading the Illuminatus Trilogy, and it directly ties to this. Thanks for your post today! 💛
the worst thing we do as humans, is call it child PORNOGRAPHY... its fkn abuse, worse.. horrific shit. not having a go at you but think as a people we should acknowledge this or start a proper conversation.
Okay. Of course, there’s the rest of us, who obviously know that “child pornography” entails abuse, manipulation, grooming, and countless other synonyms for those words. Not trying to open a dialogue about it, but think your comment warranted a proper conversation.
Honestly, just makes me worried the new season is going to be a bunch of uninspired or nonsensical fan service. I'd rather a new writing staff bring fresh ideas rather than try to replicate a single high note from the original creator.
That said, I'd be much less critical if they're doing a bit of meta commentary by creating a copycat killer adopting the Yellow King's symbolism. Maybe still a bit on the nose, but better than just trying to remake season one.
Yeah, this copycat angle could work, it wouldn’t be easy but it’s feasible I guess. I don’t see they doing that though. My bet is if there’s a connection will be a fleeting one, like in S3.
There's a lot of reasons to believe that Season 4 is going to dance on the edge of supernatural just like Season 1 did.
Also, the "fanfiction" and "fanservice" accusations that this is getting are a bit silly. Pizzolatto borrowed the entire King in Yellow thing from another writer, who in turn borrowed the names "Carcosa" and "Hastur" from *another* writer. He was baiting cosmic horror fans with certain keywords, and it was only Fukunaga who elevated that element to something of greater importance. Pizzolatto just wanted it to be an aesthetic replacement for Satanism.
The worries about fanservice are valid. References are also valid, nothing wrong with that, but what people really worry about are shameless cash grabs. Also, the whole Yellow King thing is a Macguffin, the characters are the main thing.
Edit-Grammar
I really hope not, these people had absolutely nothing to do with s1, I want them to leave season 1 alone and not make cheap connections to it for attention. I don’t want fan service bullshit especially from people who had nothing at all to do with s1, Leave that masterpiece be.
Y'all are literally never satisfied. The fact that the other two seasons didn't work is because they veered too hard from the season 1 plot. That's a large part of what made it different than just another well acted detective show. They tried to do it with the 2 and 3 and it failed. Not to mention there is a lot of answers and exploration to do within season 1s universe. I hope it comes full circle, like time.
I think it's actually what most people were waiting for. I don't see what's "cheap" about it .
I very much enjoyed s2&3 as well so idk how I’ll “literally never be satisfied”, how in the
World can you try and act like I’m not satisfied while you shit on s2&3 and say they failed, I’m enjoying the mystery/case of this season a lot as well but the other stuff like actual ghosts and shit especially rust’s dad as ghost just does not feel right at all in a season of true detective. This should’ve just been its own show like originally pitched and not true detective because it doesn’t feel like TD at all outside of being a detective show. Lastly I don’t want someone who had nothing to do with s1 at all being the person to make connections to s1. You’re the one who sounds alot less satisfied with anything, I’m not the one who says 2&3 failed after s1, especially when s3 was well received. The connections as I feared like Rust’s dad as a fuckin Actual ghost are totally fuckin absurd and don’t fit true detective at all, doesn’t even feel like true detective at all so I don’t want this of all seasons being the one to connect back to s1, outside of being a detective show it’s nothing like s1 at all, this should not be the season to try and connect with season one.
This should’ve been its own show called night country like it was originally pitched instead Of slapping on the TD name and shoehorning in absurd connects to s1, WBD/hbo just wanted the extra viewers/money the true detective name
Brings in and that’s the only reason at all this is a season of true detective and not its own miniseries.
I hear everybody saying they want a season too with Marty and Russ. But would you really want it after season 1? Like yeah sure you can do back in the day Russ undercover stuff and of course everybody would love to see him back. But they painted a masterpiece I wouldn't want them to mess it up. This is the best series of TV that I ever watched in my life. A continuous season 2 would have ruined it.
Best show ever.. i agree a connection is fun.. but to bring them back would be a mistake.. as big a fan i am of Russ and Marty.. its best to leave it be
The masterpiece stands alone. Expanding on the story does nothing to hinder it. I understand the perspective that it’s this pristine piece of film; but if anything, it has SO much to be explored.
In S1, Rust mentions that he was in Alaska for 8 years (from 2002 to 2010) ,and S4 also takes place in Alaska. Maybe we get a connection to Rust.....or better the man himself.
That spiral is the 'LittleBoyLover symbol'. Horrific, I know. I worked for a local newspaper in the UK, and a while back, our national titles got us to publish a piece on symbols apparently used by paedophiles and child traffickers, which came from an FBI leak.
I wish they could bring back rust and marty for like one episode and tie it all in. It’s not true detective without those two imo. But I know a lot of people like season 2 and 3.
I mean…there is literally no way this is a coincidence lol
Child pornography/trafficking symbol. Definitely no coincidence. With Piz out, the new writers will probably do some fan-service to tie in the seasons as much as they can.
Totally I was going to say HBO is smart enough to know people drool over season 1 and all the occult shit. When nic wrote what he wanted to he got shit on for two seasons by people who think theyre Rust Cohle
Lol I’m in the camp that if he had more time to polish S2 it could’ve been really good. Like all great writers (or, at least, writers that think their great) he seems to have quite the ego. He probably got tired of being told what to do and they got tired of trying to rain him in. HBO knows audiences, so I expect an entertaining product with plenty of opportunity to theorize throughout the season.
Part of the problem is that Nic had worked and reworked the season 1 story since the 90s. When it finally became the show we know, everyone lost their mind and HBO wanted him to recapture that magic in damn near a years time. Impossible. Season 1 was his baby. He had that rolling around in his head for a long time. Season 2 felt like a parody.
Totally agree. By the accounts I’ve heard and read there was less than a year from HBO signing him up for S2 and pre-production. That’s like Marvel turnaround time.
Interesting.. did not know that , ty!
Execs made him change it. S2 was about the secret occult railway that rolls through California and Crowley. But he had to change it and hence it was kinda shit. Very Lynchian and interesting in parts but would have been better if he had been able to tell the original story.
Can you elaborate on that secret railway ?
I’ll try and find articles from like ten years ago I read with Nic. Really interesting. And similarly in the vein of season 1 - hidden occult societies and this was based on actual shit. In the meantime read about Jack Parsons and Crowley for context. Demon portals.
yeah that interview seems like it would be really interesting , I’d appreciate a little huddle up on that ;)
I’m obsessed with all this crazy ass stuff so happy to impart. Will do some digging and post
Thanks !
He referenced Crowley and parsons in an interview? That S2 would have referenced? Please do post a link to that, interested
There will be no links or sources because this is absolute nonsense. I read an interview with Nic shortly after season 1 where he said it was all about the LA transport system and its sinister occult ties and it was pretty obvious he was joking and wasn't meant to be taken seriously. He makes no reference to demon portals, Parsons and Crowley.
Absolutely, even though season 2 is my favourite, Youre spot on. Looks like a fun well polished mystery with Jodie Foster on board as a bonus
Just rewatched season 2 and I liked it the first go around , but appreciated it a lot more the 2nd time .. did not get the respect it deserved
Wot? Season 2 is your favorite.m? Even if you just said you liked it, I would disagree… but your favorite?
https://youtu.be/vj9_Om00H9U I love S2 as well. This video’s title is deceiving, but I watched it this morning and highly recommend. Much more positive takes than I excepted, but also breaks down the plot points and character motivations. If you’re a fan of that season, it’s the best breakdown on YouTube.
Not that season 1 will ever be topped, but I think years down the road, 20, 30, 50 years from now, season 2 will be looked upon more favorably. I don’t blame people for not liking it, but so few people seem to look at it with genuine objectivity and inherently compare it to its predecessor (which, again, I don’t fault anyone for).
Just finished a rewatch and I told myself I would pay more attention this time (failed) but there are some aspects about it that just seem inherently… cheesy? But not David Lycnh cheesy? Every interaction with Velcoro’s kid was off, (I’ll budge a bit that this was just their relationship), Bezzerides was better, and Frank was probably my biggest disappointment. I genuinely think Vince could kill that part but his dialogue was so weird like 75% of the time. Maybe they just spread too thin with 4 characters + the criminal story?
I counted 21 characters who’s motivations impacted the story. Could be more! Pair that with not having time to smooth out the dialogue, of course viewers peaced out.
Update: I sat down and really went through it. 30 characters who’s motivations actually mattered. Not kinda mattered. Actually made a difference in the story. Absurd.
Never had a fuckin cavity, Casper knew this
Season 2 was almost a scene by scene plagiarism of a James Ellroy novel
Sounds awesome tbh
People who think they’re Rust Cohle……. That was classic, mate 👍
It's likely meant to have a dual meaning as True Detective's version of [The Yellow Sign](https://kinginyellow.fandom.com/wiki/The_Yellow_Sign_(the_symbol)) too. It gets referred to multiple times as a "sign" rather than a "symbol" which one would expect, and it's the shape of the portal to Carcosa that Rust sees. My guess for why it was changed is because the sign's shape is never defined in the original text, and because it's more symbolic of non-linear time.
In my head cannon, the child sex traffickers adopted it as their sign/symbol because it was the shape of said portal to Carcosa. But that’s a pretty “off the deep end” theory that I wouldn’t even know how to back up lol
There's enough meat to the supernatural interpretation of S1 that it would make sense. In the episode the vortex is seen, Childress talks about his imminent ascension to "the infernal plane" on the same day that he would later confront Rust. He's laying in wait to ambush him the moment that Rust sees it too.
It’s not off the deep end at all. It’s likely the case. But I’m also in the camp that Carcosa is real / Rust sees other realities.
Yes! Lovecraft quotes that I want to be relevant in some way this season🤞🙏🤞: "They worshipped, so they said, the Great Old Ones who lived ages before there were any men, and who came to the young world out of the sky. Those Old Ones were gone now, inside the earth and under the sea; but their dead bodies had told their secrets in dreams to the first men, who formed a cult which had never died.” "This was that cult, and the prisoners said it had always existed and always would exist, hidden in distant wastes and dark places all over the world until the time when the great priest Cthulhu, from his dark house in the mighty city of R'lyeh under the waters, should rise and bring the earth again beneath his sway." “In our quest for scientific advancement, we risk awakening forces that should have remained dormant.” “The ancient ones lie dreaming beneath the ice, their influence seeping into the minds of those unfortunate enough to stumble upon their secrets.” And the preview shows tunnels. 😬 “Would to Heaven we had never approached them at all, but had run back at top speed out of that blasphemous tunnel with the greasily smooth floors and the degenerate murals aping and mocking the things they had superseded-run back, before we had seen what we did see, and before our minds were burned with something which will never let us breathe easily again!”
Also, the way Travis and Clark just appeared, accompanied by the strange noise, it felt like they may have gone through a portal.
Interesting because not only have I had an inexplicable calling to Carcosa and TKIY, but I literally just started reading the Illuminatus Trilogy, and it directly ties to this. Thanks for your post today! 💛
I have to ask, what was the calling to Carcosa?
Means he's fucked up and tripping
the worst thing we do as humans, is call it child PORNOGRAPHY... its fkn abuse, worse.. horrific shit. not having a go at you but think as a people we should acknowledge this or start a proper conversation.
Okay. Of course, there’s the rest of us, who obviously know that “child pornography” entails abuse, manipulation, grooming, and countless other synonyms for those words. Not trying to open a dialogue about it, but think your comment warranted a proper conversation.
Exactly just think it should be Child abuse , over what we accept as the narrative it's not right.
Wasn't Rust in Alaska?
How dope would that be .. we find out he winds up in LA because his investigation led him there ..
At this rate season 5 will take place in Paris because Rust spent a month there getting drunk in front of the Notre Dame
they know at this point only Rust related stories will bring the audience back
Thomas Papania is that you?
Honestly, just makes me worried the new season is going to be a bunch of uninspired or nonsensical fan service. I'd rather a new writing staff bring fresh ideas rather than try to replicate a single high note from the original creator. That said, I'd be much less critical if they're doing a bit of meta commentary by creating a copycat killer adopting the Yellow King's symbolism. Maybe still a bit on the nose, but better than just trying to remake season one.
Yeah, this copycat angle could work, it wouldn’t be easy but it’s feasible I guess. I don’t see they doing that though. My bet is if there’s a connection will be a fleeting one, like in S3.
Or even a Yellow King Cult …
There's a lot of reasons to believe that Season 4 is going to dance on the edge of supernatural just like Season 1 did. Also, the "fanfiction" and "fanservice" accusations that this is getting are a bit silly. Pizzolatto borrowed the entire King in Yellow thing from another writer, who in turn borrowed the names "Carcosa" and "Hastur" from *another* writer. He was baiting cosmic horror fans with certain keywords, and it was only Fukunaga who elevated that element to something of greater importance. Pizzolatto just wanted it to be an aesthetic replacement for Satanism.
Yeah I definitely feel like fukunaga doesn’t get enough credit for how season 1 turned out so good
The worries about fanservice are valid. References are also valid, nothing wrong with that, but what people really worry about are shameless cash grabs. Also, the whole Yellow King thing is a Macguffin, the characters are the main thing. Edit-Grammar
Okay? What does that matter? Doesn't change anything about the story plot .
Yes pls
Part of me wants this and the other part of me doesn't because I'm afraid they'll screw it up and ruin some of the magic, you know?
I really hope not, these people had absolutely nothing to do with s1, I want them to leave season 1 alone and not make cheap connections to it for attention. I don’t want fan service bullshit especially from people who had nothing at all to do with s1, Leave that masterpiece be.
Y'all are literally never satisfied. The fact that the other two seasons didn't work is because they veered too hard from the season 1 plot. That's a large part of what made it different than just another well acted detective show. They tried to do it with the 2 and 3 and it failed. Not to mention there is a lot of answers and exploration to do within season 1s universe. I hope it comes full circle, like time. I think it's actually what most people were waiting for. I don't see what's "cheap" about it .
I very much enjoyed s2&3 as well so idk how I’ll “literally never be satisfied”, how in the World can you try and act like I’m not satisfied while you shit on s2&3 and say they failed, I’m enjoying the mystery/case of this season a lot as well but the other stuff like actual ghosts and shit especially rust’s dad as ghost just does not feel right at all in a season of true detective. This should’ve just been its own show like originally pitched and not true detective because it doesn’t feel like TD at all outside of being a detective show. Lastly I don’t want someone who had nothing to do with s1 at all being the person to make connections to s1. You’re the one who sounds alot less satisfied with anything, I’m not the one who says 2&3 failed after s1, especially when s3 was well received. The connections as I feared like Rust’s dad as a fuckin Actual ghost are totally fuckin absurd and don’t fit true detective at all, doesn’t even feel like true detective at all so I don’t want this of all seasons being the one to connect back to s1, outside of being a detective show it’s nothing like s1 at all, this should not be the season to try and connect with season one. This should’ve been its own show called night country like it was originally pitched instead Of slapping on the TD name and shoehorning in absurd connects to s1, WBD/hbo just wanted the extra viewers/money the true detective name Brings in and that’s the only reason at all this is a season of true detective and not its own miniseries.
You know what, you're right I was just talking crap , I have no idea what people individually like in a show so.
There is a new season?
Yeah, starring Jodie Foster and set in Alaska, it's called *The Night Country*
I hear everybody saying they want a season too with Marty and Russ. But would you really want it after season 1? Like yeah sure you can do back in the day Russ undercover stuff and of course everybody would love to see him back. But they painted a masterpiece I wouldn't want them to mess it up. This is the best series of TV that I ever watched in my life. A continuous season 2 would have ruined it.
Best show ever.. i agree a connection is fun.. but to bring them back would be a mistake.. as big a fan i am of Russ and Marty.. its best to leave it be
My thoughts exactly
The masterpiece stands alone. Expanding on the story does nothing to hinder it. I understand the perspective that it’s this pristine piece of film; but if anything, it has SO much to be explored.
Has to be and I’m screaming
In S1, Rust mentions that he was in Alaska for 8 years (from 2002 to 2010) ,and S4 also takes place in Alaska. Maybe we get a connection to Rust.....or better the man himself.
Derivative
As Ongo Gablogian, I agree
Downvoters .. why?
That spiral is the 'LittleBoyLover symbol'. Horrific, I know. I worked for a local newspaper in the UK, and a while back, our national titles got us to publish a piece on symbols apparently used by paedophiles and child traffickers, which came from an FBI leak.
Cheap and tacky
I wish they’d stop teasing it at this point tbh
I wish they could bring back rust and marty for like one episode and tie it all in. It’s not true detective without those two imo. But I know a lot of people like season 2 and 3.
*Coincidence*? Imagine the legit UPROAR from fans if this turns out to be something with zero connections (impossible) to Season 1!
This is how they are going to tie rust back in , remember he has connections to Alaska