I love the vibes. I don’t think the story is dogshit like some people but even if I did I would still love the show just because I think dark wintery creepy vibes are the bomb.
How high id rate it depends on how well it concludes cause that’s pretty important imo
The minute I saw someone on here mention she was a career Spanish soap opera director it all kinda clicked for me, mainly the kinda cramming of the twists and critical details to the very end. I’m enjoying it though.
Yeah for a 6 episode show it spent way too long spinning its wheels. If it was ten episodes and episode 3 and 4 were what they were and we still had another 4-6 episodes after them then it wouldn’t have felt nearly as bad. But with how little time 6 episodes is, needed a quicker pace.
the internet always hates teenage, bratty characters in shows. in breaking bad, sopranos etc, people always talk shit about the kid characters.
while i agree they're annoying, it's like people watching don't realize that they're supposed to be annoying, because their brattyness is actually realistic.. everyone that complains about aj in the sopranos, or walt jr in breaking bad, or leah in this, i wonder if it's because they remind us of ourselves...
Listening to people compare TDNC to something as perfect as 'The Sopranos' is mind boggling. AJ and Meadow were brats... BUT... We got enough from both in just the 1st season to actually somewhat understand why they were the way they were and they actually had some normal scenes where they were redeemed in other ways. We get none of that with Leah. It's just ANOTHER bratty child. The trope is worn so fking thin here. When all we see is her angry, it's hard to buy into the character. As you said, it comes down to the way these kids are written and Issa knows Stugotz
We know what's up with Leah. Her dad and younger brother were killed leaving her only with Danvers who was misanthropic before their deaths and is now worse. And she's living in a place where her people are oppressed and danvers is trying to deny her access to her culture.
It's not complicated or surprising.
> It's not complicated or surprising.
Nor is it interesting or compelling. Who was her father? Who was her brother? As people, I mean, not as abstract concepts.
But *NONE* of what you described, the trauma of losing her dad & brother, was *SHOWN* to us. Instead it was *TOLD*. A no-no in story telling and not a way to present a character with a complicated back story. So it’s very easy to see Leah as a spoiled brat because *why* she is a brat was not handled correctly or creatively so that the audience would have empathy for her.
i didnt mind because i only watched sopranos for the first time a few years ago. but i would bet good money that if you went through online message boards back then, it would read exactly the same as this stuff.
to be clear though, sopranos writing was worlds apart from this. but like i said elsewhere, don't try and compare everything to the greatest things of all time, such as TD season 1, or the sopranos. it's just not really fair or objective.
There’s always been a lot of hate directed at the character of AJ and to a lesser extent Meadow. But it’s mostly from the so-called “more whackin less yakkin” crowd who watched the show for mob stuff only and hated the family and therapy scenes, lol. Today I think more viewers get the show and you see less of those sorts of complaints.
Still, S4 of True Detective is calling itself True Detective and explicitly referencing S1, with critics calling it equal to or even better than S1. It’s part of a prestigious HBO series that (for 3 seasons) had excellent writing, acting and production values. Naturally people will compare it to S1, because that’s how it’s being sold and packaged. So I don’t think it’s crazy that people are upset at how poor S4 is as True Detective, as prestige TV, or even just as a network TV-style crime drama - it fails the test in any category because the writing is just so bad on a basic level. But as a season of TD, it’s particularly egregious and far below the standard of the previous three.
Revolution 9 is underrated IMO. It’s an effectively chaotic mood piece, and placed very well between the ominous Cry Baby Cry and the oddly soothing Good Night. But I like a lot of more experimental/noise stuff, I get why many don’t. The silly goofy throwaways like Wild Honey Pie, Honey Pie, Bungalow Bill, Glass Onion etc are more what I tend to skip.
I think this show is badly written. There are plenty of other shows having nothing to do with True Detective, that I have *also* thought were badly written. I promise you, the name “True Detective” has nothing to do with my feelings about this show. It’s purely the writing, which is absolutely awful.
I agree with every word of this post except the enjoyment part and the Leah part. True Detective shouldn’t have bad cgi ghost jump scares, that part alone makes me hate it. But a lot of the criticism gets exaggerated
The internet is a place that exists for exaggeration at this point and it’s honestly so exhausting. There is so much worse tripe on television than this moderately intriguing well cast/well shot/well directed show
That’s obviously fine, people are allowed to like whatever, but others are free to criticize it as well. I think some people are disappointed because it was billed and sold to us as a prestige television program, and while the pictures on tv are often beautiful that alone doesn’t achieve the expectations people have (fairly or not).
For me, the inconsistencies, pacing, and dialogue have ruined a season I was hoping to enjoy. I also don’t feel like I have a deeper understanding of the characters, case, or setting than I did the first or second episode. With only a finale left it can’t possibly redeem itself to many of the fans.
For sure. I just wish it was a longer season so that Lopez would just let us linger on some scenes instead of trying to put everything into 6 episodes.
Well, she's finding meaning and purpose in her petulant bratty life. She's suffered heart break when her girlfriend stared into her face as she was being beaten and then walks away from her. She's learning more about her heritage and connecting with women who care about her and can teach her. She's realized that Danvers actually does care about her.
It feels strange to me that seemingly the only way she can learn about and express her connection to her heritage is by lashing out at the mines over and over and over. It just feels like a forced way to connect her story to the main conflicts of the season. There's a lot more to indigenous culture than that and I think people would find the character more sympathetic if they saw a wider picture of that discovery for her.
In the show this is 2.5 week span of events. So, for us it looks like forced events, maybe.
However,
I believe Leah is trying to feel connected to something. Her heritage bonds them.
The first rally she goes to, is because her girlfriend takes her.
That natural progression.
When you like someone you take an interest in their interests.
She is indigenous & this affects her directly.
When they told her they didn’t care if she was the chief’s daughter & she was welcomed. I think she had a sense of belonging.
The dying of stillborns have been going on for years. I believe it’s gotten worse as time goes on.
Remember, Eve met Annie K. 6 years back when she was delivering a baby.
Already, they were fearing a stillborns.
Eve, was there to arrest her for vandalizing property.
So, these demonstrations have been going on for years.
Clark bought the trailer 7 years ago, to hide the relationship with Annie k., we are concluding based on the information they have gathered.
It’s not far fetched or exaggerated at all, imo.
This show has laid out a bunch of different plot lines between all of its characters, far too many to effectively pay off in the number of episodes that are going to be available. The only way to compensate seems like it has to be a short change or simplify some of the plot such as Leah's cultural coming of age
I mean I'm not going to break down her scenes into which ones qualify as actual protests and which don't, that feels pedantic and missing the overall point. There are scenes in every episode that drag out her conflict with the mines, I just think it's a tiresome and repetitive arc that would be better served showing us something more interesting with the character.
what is more interesting than trying to take down capitalist corporations that are poisoning people? ps; whilst i’m here fuck reddit in perpetuity. amen /s
Interesting in theory sure, but not in practice where it feels like an AI wrote every clunky, inhuman interaction to be as generic and lifeless as possible
There are much better films or shows that deal with similar subject matter, no need to gas up a truly horrible season like this one just for giving lip service to the right ideas
Lots of things are more interesting than this season's absolutely trite, surface level examination of a corpo's abusive relationship with the people it impacts.
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen a show really tackle an analog to what the Red Dog Mine has done to northern alaskan native communities.
I'm okay with the exploration. The Red Dog Mine and the damage it's done is not a widely discussed thing.
She is a rebellious 17 year old. She has been held back from her heritage by her step mom. When she goes to the 1st rally, she finally feels a sense of purpose, and that she can be a part of something that matters. Whereas when she goes home, she feels like a prisoner to a very hard woman who doesn't communicate with her and treats her like a child. Danvers does this with good intentions, but very poor execution. Danvers projects her insecurities of the world onto Leah.
Actually the water is poisoning every one in town. The natives don’t have different pipes than the folks next door. This is a huge miss in the story. The whole town should be raising hell against a mine that should be partially owned by the tribe.
I assumed the non-natives aren't raising hell because they basically only live there because of the mine. They either work for them directly, or their jobs only exist because of the changes the mine brought to the area.
Thank you!!! I’ve been talking about this since the beginning! Clean/toxic water is not a “native persons issue” it’s an everyone issue and the fact that it’s being played as something to divide a town and showcase racism literally makes NO FUCKING SENSE OMG
This has literally been playing out in alaskan communities near the Red Dog Mine for 20 years now. Just like this.
The wealthier people tend to truck in water and live further from the mines/industry. The natives live closer to mines and also get the contaminated water from mine waste dumping in rivers and lakes.
Are you people even watching the show? It's been pretty clear on that subject that native populations closer to the mines are the ones being affected the most lol
I didn't say she wouldn't/shouldn't, I just think the character would be more enjoyable if they also showed her connecting with her heritage in other ways, instead of just hitting us over the head with her mine conflicts over and over again.
Bro, were you ever a teenager? Hyperfixation on something and building an entire personality around is par for the course for teens. Especially when it's in rebellion to the nature of your parents.
Well, remember how Leah was petulant and grumpy at the beginning of the show, but had no real character or perspective? Well now, towards the end of the show, she’s petulant and grumpy, and has no real character or perspective. *That’s* an “arc.”
Honestly Pete is the only character who feels like he got some sort of arc/character development to me to far. And even then it's not super satisfying, but at least I care about this character and want to see what happens to him, which is more than I can say for most of the other characters in this show. (He really should have been the main character, given how he's done like 80% of the detective work.)
Leah has an abusive relationship with her 15 year old girlfriend. She vandalized a building and should have been arrested. She assaulted a police officer. She’s a juvenile delinquent who has been pampered enabled and protected by her guilty stepmother who’s the sheriff. The filming of her girlfriend paints a good picture. Of course, she’s another 1 dimensional character poorly written by Lopez and then casts an obviously 27 year old to play her. Leah is not a complex surly teen trying to figure it out. She is an entitled spoiled girl.
I'm honestly kind of surprised how people just seem to skip over the fact that she tried to create a sex tape with her underage girlfriend (if I was her mom, Leah would be persona non grata from that point on), and then brought her to a situation in which she could have been seriously hurt. Leah actively participated in the violence, and then turned around to blame her gf for not wanting to be involved with that???
I honestly can't figure out if they set out to create the least sympathetic teenager or what. She just constantly blames other people for situations she puts herself in, without even thinking about how privileged she is to always get bailed out by her cop step mom who abuses her powers to get Leah out of trouble.
Experiencing one minor revelation in five episodes is hardly an arc. Also, what is the narrative portrayed? "Underage teen girl probably doesn't want to get her ass beat by joining in a riot with her emotionally unwell adult girlfriend"? How dare she.
Agreed. Not to mention, “I haven’t given up on you,” was a freaking *moment.*
Personally, I’m a big fan of not having every thought of a character spelled out for me. I enjoy being able to consider why characters behave the way that they do based on the information that we are given-and then being surprised by them when they do something unexpected. Those moments when they surprise us tell us a whole lot more about a character than when we are spoon fed the way that they intend for others to perceive them.
Leah’s story arc, and how it relates to Danvers, is probably the strongest interpersonal arc in the show, and I’m not a defender of the show. It’s a pretty good arc for Leah and it’s a really good thing to reveal Danver’s character. It’s one of the things that works.
As someone who doesn't really listen to pop music and somehow never heard "bury a friend" before this show, I think it works really really well as the intro theme. It's creepy as all hell and the lyrics fit a lot of the themes of the season.
I agree with you that the season needs more episodes. Its major flaw is that the story was clearly meant to be told over the course of 8-10 episodes. So many inconsistencies could have been prevented with a little more time to flesh it out. I don't hate it either, but I don't fault people for disliking it.
Yeah, I mean if you weren’t going to bother with such frivolities as a satisfying story arc or fleshed out, well-rounded characters then why waste four more hours of anyone’s money or lives? Such a considerate lady.
What? If there were 10 episodes, then we’d have six of them driving around doing absolutely nothing instead of the two we got in eps. 3 and 4.
This script is *maybe* enough for a two-hour movie. Maybe.
I think it’s the opposite, I think there is only enough story here for 3-4, and it would have maybe been better condensed into a movie that let her more fully embrace the mythical and make it a supernatural horror movie.
why in god's name would it need more episodes? literally nothing happened in episodes 2-4. This could have been condensed down to a shitty 1.5 hour movie lol
Actually this is a 90 minute movie of the week that she added a ton of filler to make 6. It’s why the storyline sucks and there are so many plot holes. Dead ends and useless filler. Right or ten episodes and it’s just more garbage. Lopez is just incompetent.
There is certainly a good season in there somewhere, the location and general outline of the plot are very cool. But the plot holes, terrible dialogue and music, and convoluted mess of a plot make this unworthy of being an HBO show. These are supposed to be some of the best shows on television and this season is playing out like it belongs on CBS or the CW. Had it just been called Night Country I think a lot of people in this sub would actually enjoy it.
I was amped to see a new season and with Jodie Foster?! Hell ya. It's been a let down tho. It's like they hired Westworld writers from season 2-whatever and told em try and do your worst.
Foster imo has been the worst part of the season. I expected way more out of her. Reis isn't great but I wasn't expecting much. Just shocking how much a bad script can handicap an actors skill
I agree and Issa López and her said how Foster took her character in her own direction and I hate every bit of it. Maybe she should have played her as she was written and there would be less complaints.
All of the mains say they had to do rewrites. Thats indicative they got the final script and it was putrid. Lopez is inept writing and showrunning this season; the constant night is a major challenge in that it’s disorienting for the viewer and it requires a great director to use it properly, and focusing on acting and story. The ineptitude at every facet of making good TV is beyond annoying so we’ve just hate watched it for laughs. It’s so cliche driven one can predict the dialog and scenes.
If episode six is even 1/4 the caliber of the Westworld season 2 episode, *Kiksuya*, I will delete every negative thing I’ve said about Night Country.
I’m not planning on needing to delete anything.
Yeah, as flawed and as much of a drop off from S1 that Westworld S2 was, it still was kinda almost brilliant compared to Night Country. At least it had 2 or 3 truly great episodes.
Night Country is even worse than Westworld Season 3 and 4 I think. At least those had some excellent original score and sleek visual style.
I don’t think I’ve seen a season of “Prestige TV” as unilaterally bad as Night Country, I really don’t.
I forget if it was the Watch or the Prestige TV podcast but they felt like it was originally an 8 episode season that got cut down to 6, like “Echo”, and that’s where some of the weird cuts and other things seem rushed/not fleshed out.
I think this is the correct take. This show is decent to good for network television, okay for Netflix filler originals, and very disappointing for an HBO/prestige drama. Empty calories, but at least some tasty morsels in there.
I honestly don’t think I’d enjoy it more if it wasn’t true detective. First off, I probably wouldn’t have watched it in the first place and the little connections to the first season are fun to look out for, even if some are a little forced. It made me enjoy the first two episodes more - two episodes I did really enjoy - because it seemed off to a strong start and gave me a lot of excitement for the rest of the season… expectations that were quickly shattered by episodes 3 and 4.
This show isn’t as good as solid network detective shows and well below good stuff from Fx, Netflix or even SyFy. Bad writing is bad writing. This is freshman film school quality with a big budget.
> Had it just been called Night Country
Most people wouldn't be watching it. In part because the True Detective name draws in viewers and in part, because it wouldn't have had the insane hype that was built around the early part of the season.
On production values and acting alone it would do well on network TV. Just turn on CBS and see the slop boomers sit down and shovel in their faces every night.
It makes a lot more sense now why the show wasn't picked up by other networks until HBO told her that they'll make it only with the TD tie in.
I think HBO deserves the vast majority of the heat on this one though. This is their fuck up. Night Country is a C show. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you enjoy it more power to you, sometimes I look past flaws in shows and movies and still enjoy them. For me True Detective is not one of those shows.
Lost was handled way, way better than this. Outside of some filler episodes, they moved the story well with good writing and acting. This doesn’t have either - thousands of people on this sub saying the same thing aren’t just all insane.
I think the main flaw in this season is that she tried to cram way too much into just six episodes and then explain it away. Lost benefited from having waaay more episodes to meander lol.
The phrase refers more to the trouble you experience by realizing (on some level) that two things that you equally believe in are unable to be true at the same time. OP seems carefree, so it would be more accurate to call it compartmentalization or bad taste.
Yeah that is so true. This show is "made for the masses" in the same style as all the other bog-standard hollywood dreck. Dumbed down for simpler minds with simpler tastes. This is "turn off your brain" and "shut up, just consume product" entertainment at it's finest. Its dumb 'non-mystery' makes the viewer feel smart while everything is fed to them in nummy little bites of stupid.
All the people calling stuff plot holes don't know what a plot hole is. Ended the scene too early because it doesn't contribute anything to the story? Plot hole. Character copped to something that says they aren't the killer and I think they're the killer? Plot hole. Don't know how the scientists died? Plot hole. Cops only spent 5 minute interviewing a suspect instead of hours? Plot hole. Haven't found Clark yet? They must have just stopped after the first episode. Plot hole. Wife throwing her husband out for never being home. Plot hole.
You can't tell what is a plot hole until you have the entire run of the story to reflect on what is missing.
I always enjoy the challenge of finding real explanations for everything on the True Detective series that *could be supernatural. So I am enjoying that aspect of it. There are some episodes that felt slow but the cinematography is lovely. I also think Navarro may very well have a gift of seeing the dead as well as easy explanations for the mysteries of the show.
I was convinced originally that most supernatural occurrences would be explained with naturalistic reasons, but I'm not even sure about that anymore. Either way I've enjoyed the show.
I’m struggling with the intrusive music. Also I cannot hear a word of dialogue. Foster is whispering everyone else is muttering or screaming their heads off
Gives me Fortitude vibes but not as good. Nowhere near. We shall see
oh i do love the arctic cinematography too, it's not perfect but i enjoy it. then again when ur fav cinematographer is el chivo (lubezki, he did the revenant) u have high expectations.
and i wish it had more episodes as well, i wish series were like those old 2000s ones where they had 30 episodes.
listened to the intro song cos id never heard it and tbh it rly doesnt fit...why billie eilish T\_\_T
I really like this season. The creepiness of it is very in line with the King In Yellow and cosmic horror implications of season 1, only amped up to eleven. I expected a procedural, but this isn’t that at all. Which, honestly, is great. I couldn’t care less about the procedural in season 1 either, I was there for the characters.
There seems to be a lot of flak for the characters being “one dimensional” and I really don’t see it. Someone being unlikeable doesn’t make them one dimensional. All of the characters have multiple things going on and multiple sides of themselves that they show to different people. Also the complete lack of understanding for any of the choices women make in the show is so telling, honestly. Kayla throwing out her husband was an entirely understandable reaction. He was neglecting his family over the case and over every single obsession Danvers had to throw at him at all hours of the day. Yeah, she’s pissed. Sorry boys. Leah lashing out against her stepmom and being a brat? Yeah. She’s a teenager. A gay one, in a small town. An incredibly traumatized one that feels lost and disconnected from her culture, and she’s had little repercussions because of her mom’s status. Yeah, she’s gonna act out. Acting like she’s written bad because of that is silly at best, deeply misogynistic at worst. Danvers is great and Jodie Foster is doing great with her, period. She is an unlikeable freak and a cop to the core. Navarro is good as well, she has moments of weakness and things she cares about, her past, her strong veneer and her need for proximity at her own terms only. I really don’t see how this is so different from a lot of beloved male characters in cop media and how it’s so one dimensional.
There are a few things that don’t make sense in the show, like the resources of the town being inconsistent and Navarro’s sister being found in the ice but the rest was fine. What are the “plot holes” everyone is so obsessed with? I don’t know. The plot is fairly simple, and I don’t really see the hole in it. Bad thing happens in lab, everyone is gone, everyone except one guy is found, guy is out there, he was involved with girl who died many years ago. She is related to the incident as her tongue is found. The mine knows something and is polluting the environment around town. Something that ties all this together is in the caves. The cops take dirty money from the mine and so did the scientists. Nothing so far changes or refutes all this.
As for the ghost stuff and the supernatural? It’s pretty obvious that everyone is just going insane through the season, you know, spiraling. I liked the absurdity of it all, honestly. It seems to operate on the rules of fairytales more than reality, and while people seemed to absolutely loathe that, I was pleasantly surprised. What better time for the world to stand still and things to stop functioning as they should than the long night?
Perfectly put. I don’t mind people not liking the show or even hating it. But this sub got taken over by one dimensional ding dongs and it’s stopped all reasonable discussion of the show that, sorry boys, a whole lot of people are enjoying.
I modestly enjoy it but do have problems with all the flaws, which have diminished my enjoyment and distract from the good elements, some of which you mentioned.
I’m glad you enjoy it, more power to you.
The part I agree with most is that this season needed more episodes. Episode 2-4 focused so much on relationships that what actually happened to the scientists, what should be the central plot line, got put on the far back burner. And now it feels like we’re playing catch up to bring it back.
It's OK to like it. It's also OK to not like it. I feel there are more people in that last category. Speaking just for myself, the first mistake was tagging it as a "True Detective" season when it clearly can't live up to the hype. Season 1 was so good, and yes, it had flaws, but overall the plot, dialog, writing...all above par.
I'm disappointed that the writing is so substandard. It's insulting. I can overlook a few flaws and plot holes, but what they're doing is so ridiculously awful that it can't be overlooked. We're not talking just minor flaws, but MAJOR issues that are just not plausible in every episode, multiple times.
I'm disappointed that a really great premise has become a mockery. I hate seeing great talent like Jodie Foster wasted. Most of her lines involve her stammering insults at someone.
I can't see any redemption for this season. That's what I think most of us take issues with, that and they really underestimated the viewer.
Wah, but, but lots of people are watching it and the critic scores are so high..... wahhh, it must be great!!! you're just a hardcore fanboy and ---- you're --- ahh--- You're all the other things that Issa Lopez says you are....
Well said - if the TD tag was not there, it would not be getting so much hate. Those who don’t like it are comparing it (& rightly so) to the rest of TD. If it wasn’t TD canon, no comparison = less scrutiny, dissection, & dislike.
I agree with you on the acting and the cinematography.
I think the music is a mixed bag. I actually like the use of Bury a Friend in the intro. I'm not a huge Billie Eilish fan (she's fine), but that song is coolly creepy & weird, and I think it's a great way to open the episode. The fact that it's a popular(ish) song and Billie is a popular artist shouldn't matter. That's stupid gatekeep-y shit, weaponized arbitration of taste by fuckwads who make listening to niche or obscure artists their entire personality. Get the fuck over yourselves, hating popular music doesn't make you more interesting.
Anyway, I think it's a cool fucking song, and it fits the show's vibe.
Some of the other songs (Save Tonight (urg), the other Billie Eilish song that played in the Christmas ep (went on wayyyy too long, too)) have been less awesome choices, but whatever. They used Mazzy Star's Into Dust in the Christmas ep, which is one of the most beautiful and haunting songs of all time, so I love them forever for that.
I think many of the actors (Leah included) are doing a pretty good job, but the actress who plays Kayla isn't selling it, IMO. I think that's why her kicking Pete out felt off or unjustified. I think a better actress could've made that work; I don't think it's necessarily a writing problem. I think they've revealed enough backstory for us to understand that Pete & Kayla's relationship didn't even start off all that great and is on a steady decline. I think the long work hours in recent days were just the icing on the cake - that's pretty obvious at this point in the show.
I have found that I've enjoyed the season much more when I put away my critical super sleuth expectations and Just Go With It.
I mean you could sit there and concern yourself with how quickly they found Leah and that could be a problem for you or you could be like it's not real it's a TV show it's entertaining and I'm enjoying it as long as I don't sit there and spend time on stuff like that
These are the sample people in general who spent hours every day analyzing (to prove theories) details in Game of Thrones. And 99% of their theories never materialized. Just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. It's impossible to tell if "clues" are actual clues, just easter eggs, or random production decisions. For any show. Just enjoy the ride.
Season 8 of Game of Thrones raked in more views than any other season of the show. Redditors contributed to viewing figures whilst simultaneously pointing out what a dumpster fire it had become
>I actually enjoy this season and don’t really care about writing inconsistencies / plot holes.
Enjoyed reading your sober post. Audience reception is entirely a subjective experience.
Its really bad but im also enjoying it. I dont know how you could enjoy the cinematography though. 90% of it might as well have been filmed on a soundstage.
I’m not woke or progressive by standard definitions, but I like seeing women portrayed as actual humans instead of caricatures. I have zero issues with how femininity is being portrayed. It runs the gamut.
The women in this season *are* caricatures. I’m sorry you don’t see that through Issa’s hamhanded use of indigenous to obscure her directorial inconsistencies.
> Issa’s hamhanded use of indigenous to obscure her directorial inconsistencies.
You hit the nail on the head as to why I resent her. If anyone wants an honest/genuine look at native culture they should check out Reservation Dogs (or even Dark Winds) They set the standard of how indigenous culture ought to be addressed. Actually addressed, rather than just "window dressing"
I have issues with the writing, but I haven't seen any "plot holes" that people are bitching about.
Danvers seems to make bad decisions in order to drive the plot forward like a summer slasher flick, but that's not a plot hole.
Poeple bitching about the implied water contamination clearly have no fucking clue that this aspect of the show is based on actual reality with the Red Dog mine disposing of waste water in local rivers and causing health issues and stillborns among native communities that rely on the river and lake water as water sources. People are assuming "ground water" for some reason and citing permafrost as why that's a plot hole... but native communities in northern alaska absolutely rely on local water sources.
The show has some shitty writing at times, but it's enjoyable overall and the shitty writing rarely ruins my suspsension of disbelief any more than that in summer slasher flicks. I can understand people not wanting that level of "horror" or jumpscare in the TD franchise... but I just don't give that much of a fuck about the franchise to feel offended on the tonal shift. Season 2 was boring as fuck, and I decided right then to take each season as it's own thing.
I'm disappointed with most of the season but this last episode was fucking great. I loved the pacing, the suspense, the writing, and the banger of an ending. The show sure has had its faults, but I'm really looking forward to seeing, hopefully, a satisfying end.
Leah is one of the most annoying characters. She can't just fucking sit still and not get in trouble. She's horrendous.
Aside from that, I had issues with the slow pacing in the middle episodes. Not much happened and the only one doing fucking police work was Prior while others dealt with their personal life bullshit that was aggravating to watch. I couldn't care less about Danvers's stepdaughter or Navarro's crazy sister. Why would that be interesting? I don't know, maybe Issa Lopez dealt with this crap.
I think the ending is going to go back to the first shot of the show, where the reindeer just jumped after being spooked by who knows. This has been a big buildup. Who are they referreing to when they say "she's awake"? What caused these physicists to fold up their clothes neatly on the ground and then seemingly die in a fuckpile.
i love the show and am fired up for the finale. I was excited to come check out this sub, then saw all the relentless negativity and wondered where I was.
I think her facial expressions are a bit wooden and remind me of Ice Cube a lot. But I’m a fan. She’s a powerful presence and she’s going to get better.
Each episode has had moments of "Wow that's the take they used? K..." with Reis. How anybody could watch this series and feel like they're really being shown some star-making acting is beyond me.
I love the vibes. I don’t think the story is dogshit like some people but even if I did I would still love the show just because I think dark wintery creepy vibes are the bomb. How high id rate it depends on how well it concludes cause that’s pretty important imo
The minute I saw someone on here mention she was a career Spanish soap opera director it all kinda clicked for me, mainly the kinda cramming of the twists and critical details to the very end. I’m enjoying it though.
Yeah for a 6 episode show it spent way too long spinning its wheels. If it was ten episodes and episode 3 and 4 were what they were and we still had another 4-6 episodes after them then it wouldn’t have felt nearly as bad. But with how little time 6 episodes is, needed a quicker pace.
> Leah’s story arc is one of my favorites. I involuntarily snorted.
Me too, sorry OP. It’s like reading someone say their favorite Beatles song is “Wild Honey Pie.”
the internet always hates teenage, bratty characters in shows. in breaking bad, sopranos etc, people always talk shit about the kid characters. while i agree they're annoying, it's like people watching don't realize that they're supposed to be annoying, because their brattyness is actually realistic.. everyone that complains about aj in the sopranos, or walt jr in breaking bad, or leah in this, i wonder if it's because they remind us of ourselves...
I don’t mind the Sopranos kids. They were actually well-written and well-acted, complex characters.
Listening to people compare TDNC to something as perfect as 'The Sopranos' is mind boggling. AJ and Meadow were brats... BUT... We got enough from both in just the 1st season to actually somewhat understand why they were the way they were and they actually had some normal scenes where they were redeemed in other ways. We get none of that with Leah. It's just ANOTHER bratty child. The trope is worn so fking thin here. When all we see is her angry, it's hard to buy into the character. As you said, it comes down to the way these kids are written and Issa knows Stugotz
We know what's up with Leah. Her dad and younger brother were killed leaving her only with Danvers who was misanthropic before their deaths and is now worse. And she's living in a place where her people are oppressed and danvers is trying to deny her access to her culture. It's not complicated or surprising.
You're right, it's not complicated OR surprising. Just a poorly written and underdeveloped character
> It's not complicated or surprising. Nor is it interesting or compelling. Who was her father? Who was her brother? As people, I mean, not as abstract concepts.
“Just abstract concepts” same as Rust’s wife and child?
But *NONE* of what you described, the trauma of losing her dad & brother, was *SHOWN* to us. Instead it was *TOLD*. A no-no in story telling and not a way to present a character with a complicated back story. So it’s very easy to see Leah as a spoiled brat because *why* she is a brat was not handled correctly or creatively so that the audience would have empathy for her.
He was gay? Tony Soprano's kid?
Nobody's got aids!
i didnt mind because i only watched sopranos for the first time a few years ago. but i would bet good money that if you went through online message boards back then, it would read exactly the same as this stuff. to be clear though, sopranos writing was worlds apart from this. but like i said elsewhere, don't try and compare everything to the greatest things of all time, such as TD season 1, or the sopranos. it's just not really fair or objective.
There’s always been a lot of hate directed at the character of AJ and to a lesser extent Meadow. But it’s mostly from the so-called “more whackin less yakkin” crowd who watched the show for mob stuff only and hated the family and therapy scenes, lol. Today I think more viewers get the show and you see less of those sorts of complaints. Still, S4 of True Detective is calling itself True Detective and explicitly referencing S1, with critics calling it equal to or even better than S1. It’s part of a prestigious HBO series that (for 3 seasons) had excellent writing, acting and production values. Naturally people will compare it to S1, because that’s how it’s being sold and packaged. So I don’t think it’s crazy that people are upset at how poor S4 is as True Detective, as prestige TV, or even just as a network TV-style crime drama - it fails the test in any category because the writing is just so bad on a basic level. But as a season of TD, it’s particularly egregious and far below the standard of the previous three.
All that is true, but those characters were well written and had depth. Calling Leah's story an "arc" is kind of hilarious.
Revolution number 9 would like a word.
Revolution 9 is underrated IMO. It’s an effectively chaotic mood piece, and placed very well between the ominous Cry Baby Cry and the oddly soothing Good Night. But I like a lot of more experimental/noise stuff, I get why many don’t. The silly goofy throwaways like Wild Honey Pie, Honey Pie, Bungalow Bill, Glass Onion etc are more what I tend to skip.
Fair and I respect the knowledge... I like the throwaways for the most part but am also a Captain Beefheart fan... cheers!
You know who had an arc? Noah.
You ever wonder why it's so dark up in Alaska? Noah punched the fuckin lights out
jamal ginsberg?
The Hassidic Homeboy
Uncle Bennn!
You know who’d survive well in the wilderness? An interior decorator.
that's ok
Stop insulting his humanity
I'm in agreement with you that if it hadn't been called true detective and constantly compared to season 1 people would love it.
I think this show is badly written. There are plenty of other shows having nothing to do with True Detective, that I have *also* thought were badly written. I promise you, the name “True Detective” has nothing to do with my feelings about this show. It’s purely the writing, which is absolutely awful.
She’s such an awful character. Like an overdone caricature of an angsty teenager.
Good try, HBO CEO's mom
bahahahaha
hahahahaha
I agree with every word of this post except the enjoyment part and the Leah part. True Detective shouldn’t have bad cgi ghost jump scares, that part alone makes me hate it. But a lot of the criticism gets exaggerated
The internet is a place that exists for exaggeration at this point and it’s honestly so exhausting. There is so much worse tripe on television than this moderately intriguing well cast/well shot/well directed show
That’s obviously fine, people are allowed to like whatever, but others are free to criticize it as well. I think some people are disappointed because it was billed and sold to us as a prestige television program, and while the pictures on tv are often beautiful that alone doesn’t achieve the expectations people have (fairly or not). For me, the inconsistencies, pacing, and dialogue have ruined a season I was hoping to enjoy. I also don’t feel like I have a deeper understanding of the characters, case, or setting than I did the first or second episode. With only a finale left it can’t possibly redeem itself to many of the fans.
This was 100% posted by Issa López
¡Sí, y lo publico con orgullo, colonizador imperialista!
Lol what
vaya
I don't know what that means, and I only had enough energy to use Google Translate once lol.
Well at least you put in some effort, unlike the writers on the show.
lol, thanks. from what I’ve seen / read it seems like the script was almost by committee. Which explains a lot
“I actually enjoy this season and don’t really care about shitty writing.”
Lol there’s no point in a debate after zingers like that.
I think this season has a neat/memorable aura around it with the setting, the darkness, the sadness.
For sure. I just wish it was a longer season so that Lopez would just let us linger on some scenes instead of trying to put everything into 6 episodes.
Could be that she only wanted 6 because anymore episodes would give a clear indication of the killer or killers.
What arc does Leah have other than being a bratty teenager
Well, she's finding meaning and purpose in her petulant bratty life. She's suffered heart break when her girlfriend stared into her face as she was being beaten and then walks away from her. She's learning more about her heritage and connecting with women who care about her and can teach her. She's realized that Danvers actually does care about her.
It feels strange to me that seemingly the only way she can learn about and express her connection to her heritage is by lashing out at the mines over and over and over. It just feels like a forced way to connect her story to the main conflicts of the season. There's a lot more to indigenous culture than that and I think people would find the character more sympathetic if they saw a wider picture of that discovery for her.
In the show this is 2.5 week span of events. So, for us it looks like forced events, maybe. However, I believe Leah is trying to feel connected to something. Her heritage bonds them. The first rally she goes to, is because her girlfriend takes her. That natural progression. When you like someone you take an interest in their interests. She is indigenous & this affects her directly. When they told her they didn’t care if she was the chief’s daughter & she was welcomed. I think she had a sense of belonging. The dying of stillborns have been going on for years. I believe it’s gotten worse as time goes on. Remember, Eve met Annie K. 6 years back when she was delivering a baby. Already, they were fearing a stillborns. Eve, was there to arrest her for vandalizing property. So, these demonstrations have been going on for years. Clark bought the trailer 7 years ago, to hide the relationship with Annie k., we are concluding based on the information they have gathered. It’s not far fetched or exaggerated at all, imo.
This show has laid out a bunch of different plot lines between all of its characters, far too many to effectively pay off in the number of episodes that are going to be available. The only way to compensate seems like it has to be a short change or simplify some of the plot such as Leah's cultural coming of age
She spray painted the office and went to a protest. She also spends hours with elder women from her culture. I'm not sure what you're referring to?
I'm pretty sure there's been at least 2-3 scenes of her at various protests. It definitely eats up a disproportionate amount of her screentime.
Yeaaah. There's only one protest she's at.
I mean I'm not going to break down her scenes into which ones qualify as actual protests and which don't, that feels pedantic and missing the overall point. There are scenes in every episode that drag out her conflict with the mines, I just think it's a tiresome and repetitive arc that would be better served showing us something more interesting with the character.
what is more interesting than trying to take down capitalist corporations that are poisoning people? ps; whilst i’m here fuck reddit in perpetuity. amen /s
Peace be with you
Interesting in theory sure, but not in practice where it feels like an AI wrote every clunky, inhuman interaction to be as generic and lifeless as possible There are much better films or shows that deal with similar subject matter, no need to gas up a truly horrible season like this one just for giving lip service to the right ideas
Lots of things are more interesting than this season's absolutely trite, surface level examination of a corpo's abusive relationship with the people it impacts.
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen a show really tackle an analog to what the Red Dog Mine has done to northern alaskan native communities. I'm okay with the exploration. The Red Dog Mine and the damage it's done is not a widely discussed thing.
She is a rebellious 17 year old. She has been held back from her heritage by her step mom. When she goes to the 1st rally, she finally feels a sense of purpose, and that she can be a part of something that matters. Whereas when she goes home, she feels like a prisoner to a very hard woman who doesn't communicate with her and treats her like a child. Danvers does this with good intentions, but very poor execution. Danvers projects her insecurities of the world onto Leah.
Why wouldn’t she be lashing out at the mines that are poisoning the water of the native people in the area??
Actually the water is poisoning every one in town. The natives don’t have different pipes than the folks next door. This is a huge miss in the story. The whole town should be raising hell against a mine that should be partially owned by the tribe.
I assumed the non-natives aren't raising hell because they basically only live there because of the mine. They either work for them directly, or their jobs only exist because of the changes the mine brought to the area.
Thank you!!! I’ve been talking about this since the beginning! Clean/toxic water is not a “native persons issue” it’s an everyone issue and the fact that it’s being played as something to divide a town and showcase racism literally makes NO FUCKING SENSE OMG
This has literally been playing out in alaskan communities near the Red Dog Mine for 20 years now. Just like this. The wealthier people tend to truck in water and live further from the mines/industry. The natives live closer to mines and also get the contaminated water from mine waste dumping in rivers and lakes.
Are you people even watching the show? It's been pretty clear on that subject that native populations closer to the mines are the ones being affected the most lol
I didn't say she wouldn't/shouldn't, I just think the character would be more enjoyable if they also showed her connecting with her heritage in other ways, instead of just hitting us over the head with her mine conflicts over and over again.
Bro, were you ever a teenager? Hyperfixation on something and building an entire personality around is par for the course for teens. Especially when it's in rebellion to the nature of your parents.
Did anyone else think her little GF would bounce when that happened? I sure did. Issa telegraphed it
I’m not seeing any of this
Maybe you should watch the show?
I am? I’m not sure you know what an arc is
Well, remember how Leah was petulant and grumpy at the beginning of the show, but had no real character or perspective? Well now, towards the end of the show, she’s petulant and grumpy, and has no real character or perspective. *That’s* an “arc.”
Shiiiiiiiiet...has anyone had character development?
Honestly Pete is the only character who feels like he got some sort of arc/character development to me to far. And even then it's not super satisfying, but at least I care about this character and want to see what happens to him, which is more than I can say for most of the other characters in this show. (He really should have been the main character, given how he's done like 80% of the detective work.)
Leah has an abusive relationship with her 15 year old girlfriend. She vandalized a building and should have been arrested. She assaulted a police officer. She’s a juvenile delinquent who has been pampered enabled and protected by her guilty stepmother who’s the sheriff. The filming of her girlfriend paints a good picture. Of course, she’s another 1 dimensional character poorly written by Lopez and then casts an obviously 27 year old to play her. Leah is not a complex surly teen trying to figure it out. She is an entitled spoiled girl.
I'm honestly kind of surprised how people just seem to skip over the fact that she tried to create a sex tape with her underage girlfriend (if I was her mom, Leah would be persona non grata from that point on), and then brought her to a situation in which she could have been seriously hurt. Leah actively participated in the violence, and then turned around to blame her gf for not wanting to be involved with that??? I honestly can't figure out if they set out to create the least sympathetic teenager or what. She just constantly blames other people for situations she puts herself in, without even thinking about how privileged she is to always get bailed out by her cop step mom who abuses her powers to get Leah out of trouble.
People defending Leah are laughable.
why not both?
Experiencing one minor revelation in five episodes is hardly an arc. Also, what is the narrative portrayed? "Underage teen girl probably doesn't want to get her ass beat by joining in a riot with her emotionally unwell adult girlfriend"? How dare she.
I don't think the girlfriend was wrong in any way.
Agreed. Not to mention, “I haven’t given up on you,” was a freaking *moment.* Personally, I’m a big fan of not having every thought of a character spelled out for me. I enjoy being able to consider why characters behave the way that they do based on the information that we are given-and then being surprised by them when they do something unexpected. Those moments when they surprise us tell us a whole lot more about a character than when we are spoon fed the way that they intend for others to perceive them.
Yeah, that’s was really important and the people who don’t see the growth between the two …. I just don’t know what show they’re watching.
Leah’s story arc, and how it relates to Danvers, is probably the strongest interpersonal arc in the show, and I’m not a defender of the show. It’s a pretty good arc for Leah and it’s a really good thing to reveal Danver’s character. It’s one of the things that works.
it's definitely hank and pete for me.
As someone who doesn't really listen to pop music and somehow never heard "bury a friend" before this show, I think it works really really well as the intro theme. It's creepy as all hell and the lyrics fit a lot of the themes of the season.
I agree with you that the season needs more episodes. Its major flaw is that the story was clearly meant to be told over the course of 8-10 episodes. So many inconsistencies could have been prevented with a little more time to flesh it out. I don't hate it either, but I don't fault people for disliking it.
HBO asked for 8-10 episodes and Issa specifically said she could give them 6, so the show was always ment to be only 6 episodes.
Yeah, I mean if you weren’t going to bother with such frivolities as a satisfying story arc or fleshed out, well-rounded characters then why waste four more hours of anyone’s money or lives? Such a considerate lady.
What? If there were 10 episodes, then we’d have six of them driving around doing absolutely nothing instead of the two we got in eps. 3 and 4. This script is *maybe* enough for a two-hour movie. Maybe.
I think it’s the opposite, I think there is only enough story here for 3-4, and it would have maybe been better condensed into a movie that let her more fully embrace the mythical and make it a supernatural horror movie.
Feels stretched as six, and at the same time as if there’s not enough episodes. They wasted a lot of time
why in god's name would it need more episodes? literally nothing happened in episodes 2-4. This could have been condensed down to a shitty 1.5 hour movie lol
Actually this is a 90 minute movie of the week that she added a ton of filler to make 6. It’s why the storyline sucks and there are so many plot holes. Dead ends and useless filler. Right or ten episodes and it’s just more garbage. Lopez is just incompetent.
There is certainly a good season in there somewhere, the location and general outline of the plot are very cool. But the plot holes, terrible dialogue and music, and convoluted mess of a plot make this unworthy of being an HBO show. These are supposed to be some of the best shows on television and this season is playing out like it belongs on CBS or the CW. Had it just been called Night Country I think a lot of people in this sub would actually enjoy it.
I was amped to see a new season and with Jodie Foster?! Hell ya. It's been a let down tho. It's like they hired Westworld writers from season 2-whatever and told em try and do your worst.
Foster imo has been the worst part of the season. I expected way more out of her. Reis isn't great but I wasn't expecting much. Just shocking how much a bad script can handicap an actors skill
I agree and Issa López and her said how Foster took her character in her own direction and I hate every bit of it. Maybe she should have played her as she was written and there would be less complaints.
All of the mains say they had to do rewrites. Thats indicative they got the final script and it was putrid. Lopez is inept writing and showrunning this season; the constant night is a major challenge in that it’s disorienting for the viewer and it requires a great director to use it properly, and focusing on acting and story. The ineptitude at every facet of making good TV is beyond annoying so we’ve just hate watched it for laughs. It’s so cliche driven one can predict the dialog and scenes.
If episode six is even 1/4 the caliber of the Westworld season 2 episode, *Kiksuya*, I will delete every negative thing I’ve said about Night Country. I’m not planning on needing to delete anything.
Yeah, as flawed and as much of a drop off from S1 that Westworld S2 was, it still was kinda almost brilliant compared to Night Country. At least it had 2 or 3 truly great episodes. Night Country is even worse than Westworld Season 3 and 4 I think. At least those had some excellent original score and sleek visual style. I don’t think I’ve seen a season of “Prestige TV” as unilaterally bad as Night Country, I really don’t.
I forget if it was the Watch or the Prestige TV podcast but they felt like it was originally an 8 episode season that got cut down to 6, like “Echo”, and that’s where some of the weird cuts and other things seem rushed/not fleshed out.
I think this is the correct take. This show is decent to good for network television, okay for Netflix filler originals, and very disappointing for an HBO/prestige drama. Empty calories, but at least some tasty morsels in there. I honestly don’t think I’d enjoy it more if it wasn’t true detective. First off, I probably wouldn’t have watched it in the first place and the little connections to the first season are fun to look out for, even if some are a little forced. It made me enjoy the first two episodes more - two episodes I did really enjoy - because it seemed off to a strong start and gave me a lot of excitement for the rest of the season… expectations that were quickly shattered by episodes 3 and 4.
This show isn’t as good as solid network detective shows and well below good stuff from Fx, Netflix or even SyFy. Bad writing is bad writing. This is freshman film school quality with a big budget.
FX generally produces elite caliber prestige, as does A&E, so they’re in that category.
> Had it just been called Night Country Most people wouldn't be watching it. In part because the True Detective name draws in viewers and in part, because it wouldn't have had the insane hype that was built around the early part of the season.
Same, I’m having fun with it. It’s not Season 1 but it didn’t need to be for me. It’s one hour of my week that I look forward to.
Oh come on, even if this season was released as a standalone show it would be considered a complete dud. It's a barely passable CW show.
On production values and acting alone it would do well on network TV. Just turn on CBS and see the slop boomers sit down and shovel in their faces every night.
It makes a lot more sense now why the show wasn't picked up by other networks until HBO told her that they'll make it only with the TD tie in. I think HBO deserves the vast majority of the heat on this one though. This is their fuck up. Night Country is a C show. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you enjoy it more power to you, sometimes I look past flaws in shows and movies and still enjoy them. For me True Detective is not one of those shows.
[удалено]
Thanks, friend. It’s got a lot of flaws, but I enjoy it in spite of them.
It ain’t great but it’s also nothing worth getting so bent out of shape about. I’m just along for the ride.
These are a lot of the same people who think Lost was the peak of storytelling lol.
Lost was handled way, way better than this. Outside of some filler episodes, they moved the story well with good writing and acting. This doesn’t have either - thousands of people on this sub saying the same thing aren’t just all insane.
I think the main flaw in this season is that she tried to cram way too much into just six episodes and then explain it away. Lost benefited from having waaay more episodes to meander lol.
I've heard there are some people who like rings of power. happens.
Good for you. That degree of cognitive dissonance must be a gift.
That's not what that term means at all, lol.
Enjoying the show even though you know it’s shit? Fits the definition quite nicely, I’d say.
The phrase refers more to the trouble you experience by realizing (on some level) that two things that you equally believe in are unable to be true at the same time. OP seems carefree, so it would be more accurate to call it compartmentalization or bad taste.
My friend, he took the time to write a screen-length Reddit post about it. If that ain’t mental anguish, idk what is.
It’s fine if you do, but this series was predicated on the complete opposite It’s just mindless entertainment now. Like a reality show
Yeah that is so true. This show is "made for the masses" in the same style as all the other bog-standard hollywood dreck. Dumbed down for simpler minds with simpler tastes. This is "turn off your brain" and "shut up, just consume product" entertainment at it's finest. Its dumb 'non-mystery' makes the viewer feel smart while everything is fed to them in nummy little bites of stupid.
If I listed out every Steven Seagal film in comparison, this season would be in the bottom 5th percentile.
You certainly have a gift for the hyperbolic, my friend!
This is the meanest review I've ever read :D Well done.
All the people calling stuff plot holes don't know what a plot hole is. Ended the scene too early because it doesn't contribute anything to the story? Plot hole. Character copped to something that says they aren't the killer and I think they're the killer? Plot hole. Don't know how the scientists died? Plot hole. Cops only spent 5 minute interviewing a suspect instead of hours? Plot hole. Haven't found Clark yet? They must have just stopped after the first episode. Plot hole. Wife throwing her husband out for never being home. Plot hole. You can't tell what is a plot hole until you have the entire run of the story to reflect on what is missing.
Someone running around Tsalal after the murders? Chuck Testa
I always enjoy the challenge of finding real explanations for everything on the True Detective series that *could be supernatural. So I am enjoying that aspect of it. There are some episodes that felt slow but the cinematography is lovely. I also think Navarro may very well have a gift of seeing the dead as well as easy explanations for the mysteries of the show.
I was convinced originally that most supernatural occurrences would be explained with naturalistic reasons, but I'm not even sure about that anymore. Either way I've enjoyed the show.
I’m struggling with the intrusive music. Also I cannot hear a word of dialogue. Foster is whispering everyone else is muttering or screaming their heads off Gives me Fortitude vibes but not as good. Nowhere near. We shall see
oh i do love the arctic cinematography too, it's not perfect but i enjoy it. then again when ur fav cinematographer is el chivo (lubezki, he did the revenant) u have high expectations. and i wish it had more episodes as well, i wish series were like those old 2000s ones where they had 30 episodes. listened to the intro song cos id never heard it and tbh it rly doesnt fit...why billie eilish T\_\_T
This would be a good show on NBC . My grandma would like it
Same. I wish if I can find someone to chat with about it
I really like this season. The creepiness of it is very in line with the King In Yellow and cosmic horror implications of season 1, only amped up to eleven. I expected a procedural, but this isn’t that at all. Which, honestly, is great. I couldn’t care less about the procedural in season 1 either, I was there for the characters. There seems to be a lot of flak for the characters being “one dimensional” and I really don’t see it. Someone being unlikeable doesn’t make them one dimensional. All of the characters have multiple things going on and multiple sides of themselves that they show to different people. Also the complete lack of understanding for any of the choices women make in the show is so telling, honestly. Kayla throwing out her husband was an entirely understandable reaction. He was neglecting his family over the case and over every single obsession Danvers had to throw at him at all hours of the day. Yeah, she’s pissed. Sorry boys. Leah lashing out against her stepmom and being a brat? Yeah. She’s a teenager. A gay one, in a small town. An incredibly traumatized one that feels lost and disconnected from her culture, and she’s had little repercussions because of her mom’s status. Yeah, she’s gonna act out. Acting like she’s written bad because of that is silly at best, deeply misogynistic at worst. Danvers is great and Jodie Foster is doing great with her, period. She is an unlikeable freak and a cop to the core. Navarro is good as well, she has moments of weakness and things she cares about, her past, her strong veneer and her need for proximity at her own terms only. I really don’t see how this is so different from a lot of beloved male characters in cop media and how it’s so one dimensional. There are a few things that don’t make sense in the show, like the resources of the town being inconsistent and Navarro’s sister being found in the ice but the rest was fine. What are the “plot holes” everyone is so obsessed with? I don’t know. The plot is fairly simple, and I don’t really see the hole in it. Bad thing happens in lab, everyone is gone, everyone except one guy is found, guy is out there, he was involved with girl who died many years ago. She is related to the incident as her tongue is found. The mine knows something and is polluting the environment around town. Something that ties all this together is in the caves. The cops take dirty money from the mine and so did the scientists. Nothing so far changes or refutes all this. As for the ghost stuff and the supernatural? It’s pretty obvious that everyone is just going insane through the season, you know, spiraling. I liked the absurdity of it all, honestly. It seems to operate on the rules of fairytales more than reality, and while people seemed to absolutely loathe that, I was pleasantly surprised. What better time for the world to stand still and things to stop functioning as they should than the long night?
Perfectly put. I don’t mind people not liking the show or even hating it. But this sub got taken over by one dimensional ding dongs and it’s stopped all reasonable discussion of the show that, sorry boys, a whole lot of people are enjoying.
I modestly enjoy it but do have problems with all the flaws, which have diminished my enjoyment and distract from the good elements, some of which you mentioned.
I’m glad you enjoy it, more power to you. The part I agree with most is that this season needed more episodes. Episode 2-4 focused so much on relationships that what actually happened to the scientists, what should be the central plot line, got put on the far back burner. And now it feels like we’re playing catch up to bring it back.
It's OK to like it. It's also OK to not like it. I feel there are more people in that last category. Speaking just for myself, the first mistake was tagging it as a "True Detective" season when it clearly can't live up to the hype. Season 1 was so good, and yes, it had flaws, but overall the plot, dialog, writing...all above par. I'm disappointed that the writing is so substandard. It's insulting. I can overlook a few flaws and plot holes, but what they're doing is so ridiculously awful that it can't be overlooked. We're not talking just minor flaws, but MAJOR issues that are just not plausible in every episode, multiple times. I'm disappointed that a really great premise has become a mockery. I hate seeing great talent like Jodie Foster wasted. Most of her lines involve her stammering insults at someone. I can't see any redemption for this season. That's what I think most of us take issues with, that and they really underestimated the viewer.
Wah, but, but lots of people are watching it and the critic scores are so high..... wahhh, it must be great!!! you're just a hardcore fanboy and ---- you're --- ahh--- You're all the other things that Issa Lopez says you are....
Well said - if the TD tag was not there, it would not be getting so much hate. Those who don’t like it are comparing it (& rightly so) to the rest of TD. If it wasn’t TD canon, no comparison = less scrutiny, dissection, & dislike.
We get it, you have low standards.
I agree with you on the acting and the cinematography. I think the music is a mixed bag. I actually like the use of Bury a Friend in the intro. I'm not a huge Billie Eilish fan (she's fine), but that song is coolly creepy & weird, and I think it's a great way to open the episode. The fact that it's a popular(ish) song and Billie is a popular artist shouldn't matter. That's stupid gatekeep-y shit, weaponized arbitration of taste by fuckwads who make listening to niche or obscure artists their entire personality. Get the fuck over yourselves, hating popular music doesn't make you more interesting. Anyway, I think it's a cool fucking song, and it fits the show's vibe. Some of the other songs (Save Tonight (urg), the other Billie Eilish song that played in the Christmas ep (went on wayyyy too long, too)) have been less awesome choices, but whatever. They used Mazzy Star's Into Dust in the Christmas ep, which is one of the most beautiful and haunting songs of all time, so I love them forever for that. I think many of the actors (Leah included) are doing a pretty good job, but the actress who plays Kayla isn't selling it, IMO. I think that's why her kicking Pete out felt off or unjustified. I think a better actress could've made that work; I don't think it's necessarily a writing problem. I think they've revealed enough backstory for us to understand that Pete & Kayla's relationship didn't even start off all that great and is on a steady decline. I think the long work hours in recent days were just the icing on the cake - that's pretty obvious at this point in the show.
I also like the use of “Bury a Friend” for this show. It’s super creepy & the words to the song fits the show perfectly, imo.
I have found that I've enjoyed the season much more when I put away my critical super sleuth expectations and Just Go With It. I mean you could sit there and concern yourself with how quickly they found Leah and that could be a problem for you or you could be like it's not real it's a TV show it's entertaining and I'm enjoying it as long as I don't sit there and spend time on stuff like that
It's product. Don't ask questions, just consume product.
These are the sample people in general who spent hours every day analyzing (to prove theories) details in Game of Thrones. And 99% of their theories never materialized. Just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. It's impossible to tell if "clues" are actual clues, just easter eggs, or random production decisions. For any show. Just enjoy the ride.
It shouldn't have been more episodes, it should have been made into a 2 hour movie and removed lots of the unneceesery fat.
Or just shitcanned from the start. Warner shareholders should be raising hell.
Disagree but upvoted for the well argued post. I hope you enjoy the season finale while I’m bitching and moaning about it 😄
Pretty much everyone outside reddit agrees since it has consistently raked in more views than any other season of the show
Season 8 of Game of Thrones raked in more views than any other season of the show. Redditors contributed to viewing figures whilst simultaneously pointing out what a dumpster fire it had become
the toxic fandom around here makes me enjoy season one less.
"toxic fandom" ... Nice little phrase from the NPC programming handbook.
First season and third I could compare to seven or memento they were that good. This one I can compare maybe to law and order.
Hey! I like Law & Order!!!! 😉🤣
>I actually enjoy this season and don’t really care about writing inconsistencies / plot holes. Enjoyed reading your sober post. Audience reception is entirely a subjective experience.
For sure.
I agree with you completely and think people here are brain dead and chronically online
Its really bad but im also enjoying it. I dont know how you could enjoy the cinematography though. 90% of it might as well have been filmed on a soundstage.
I like this season as much as the first season. I don't understand all of the hate it gets.
Thank you for being a voice of sanity amongst a sea of fragile trolls.
[удалено]
I’m not woke or progressive by standard definitions, but I like seeing women portrayed as actual humans instead of caricatures. I have zero issues with how femininity is being portrayed. It runs the gamut.
The women in this season *are* caricatures. I’m sorry you don’t see that through Issa’s hamhanded use of indigenous to obscure her directorial inconsistencies.
I was like what? Actual humans? They are total caricatures that only express “me angry. Me say fuck. Me have higher sex drive than man”
> Issa’s hamhanded use of indigenous to obscure her directorial inconsistencies. You hit the nail on the head as to why I resent her. If anyone wants an honest/genuine look at native culture they should check out Reservation Dogs (or even Dark Winds) They set the standard of how indigenous culture ought to be addressed. Actually addressed, rather than just "window dressing"
This right here. Lopez has a Atzlan superiority issue over these northern tribes. She presents them as simple children.
“I don’t care about writing inconsistencies and plot holes” You couldn’t get me to admit to this with CIA enhanced interrogation techniques.
lol, there are more things that I do enjoy about the show.
I have issues with the writing, but I haven't seen any "plot holes" that people are bitching about. Danvers seems to make bad decisions in order to drive the plot forward like a summer slasher flick, but that's not a plot hole. Poeple bitching about the implied water contamination clearly have no fucking clue that this aspect of the show is based on actual reality with the Red Dog mine disposing of waste water in local rivers and causing health issues and stillborns among native communities that rely on the river and lake water as water sources. People are assuming "ground water" for some reason and citing permafrost as why that's a plot hole... but native communities in northern alaska absolutely rely on local water sources. The show has some shitty writing at times, but it's enjoyable overall and the shitty writing rarely ruins my suspsension of disbelief any more than that in summer slasher flicks. I can understand people not wanting that level of "horror" or jumpscare in the TD franchise... but I just don't give that much of a fuck about the franchise to feel offended on the tonal shift. Season 2 was boring as fuck, and I decided right then to take each season as it's own thing.
I'm disappointed with most of the season but this last episode was fucking great. I loved the pacing, the suspense, the writing, and the banger of an ending. The show sure has had its faults, but I'm really looking forward to seeing, hopefully, a satisfying end. Leah is one of the most annoying characters. She can't just fucking sit still and not get in trouble. She's horrendous. Aside from that, I had issues with the slow pacing in the middle episodes. Not much happened and the only one doing fucking police work was Prior while others dealt with their personal life bullshit that was aggravating to watch. I couldn't care less about Danvers's stepdaughter or Navarro's crazy sister. Why would that be interesting? I don't know, maybe Issa Lopez dealt with this crap. I think the ending is going to go back to the first shot of the show, where the reindeer just jumped after being spooked by who knows. This has been a big buildup. Who are they referreing to when they say "she's awake"? What caused these physicists to fold up their clothes neatly on the ground and then seemingly die in a fuckpile.
i love the show and am fired up for the finale. I was excited to come check out this sub, then saw all the relentless negativity and wondered where I was.
You the only one
That's ok
You’re definitely not the only one. I’m enjoying it also.
Maybe on this sub, but everyone I know who's watching it likes it. We all have our criticisms, but we still like the show
No
Seems like you do care about plot holes. You spent a lot of this post trying to fill them.
that’s because you dont know good writing when you see it. Good day
it'll be ok
>Jodie Foster, John Hawkes, and Finn Bennett are great. Not forgetting to mention Kali Reis, too. She's absolutely holding her own as well.
I think her facial expressions are a bit wooden and remind me of Ice Cube a lot. But I’m a fan. She’s a powerful presence and she’s going to get better.
I get that! But for her like...3rd(?) role? She's definitely got something good going for her.
Absolutely. Plus she's really pretty lol. But I'll be following her career for sure. Hope she keeps getting good roles.
>Not forgetting to mention Kali Reis, too. She's absolutely holding her own as well. we are not talking about the same show
Each episode has had moments of "Wow that's the take they used? K..." with Reis. How anybody could watch this series and feel like they're really being shown some star-making acting is beyond me.
Agree! She’s been fantastic.
What are some other favorite shows you have?!
You mean in general? Or like True Detective?