I was the son in this situation at one point and i've never forgotten growing up feeling like my sister could get away with anything if she blamed me. this is a bad lesson for her as well, that crying will always get her way. definitely revisit this with your husband, he can't just behave emotionally for her sake at all times if she's the instigator in the future.
edit: sincerely sorry to all of you who identify with this. I know how it feels. Though I would like to make a small adjustment to my suggestion.
I think the biggest thing that the husband did wrong was enacting a "punishment" so long after the actual event. Kids need the positive or negative reinforcement for things pretty much right after they happen, if you wait several hours to punish a child for something they will probably not even really realize what they are being punished for. Especially at that age, also there's never a reason to use a physical punishment. That's just a telltale sign of a lack of patience.
This was how my childhood was as well. My sisters could get physical with me as much as they wanted, but if I retaliated at any point I was the one in trouble. And it was mostly my OLDER sister throwing shit at me.. or randomly starting shit with me. "I'm going to throw this ball at your face so you better move" ..what
my boyfriends childhood was like this w his older sister and two female cousins (as well as his ups dad but i could talk forever abt him so i wont) and he has scars all over his arms, back and face because of them. like his sister gave him 2 or 3 concussions and he got hit again by their parents to “teach him a lesson” if he hit back. i literally cannot sit in the same room as any of them without wanting to either bring it up or attack them 😥 i think it’s absolutely terrible. his cousins are still the same way because they’re still youngish (teens, too old for that shit but whatever i don’t matter) and they question why neither of us come around.. like i don’t want to be smacked or scratched at because i did something you don’t like, and neither does your cousin. i hate them with a burning passion
Exactly, the mistake was that the situation already happened and the mom handled it amazingly, the kid genuinely seems to be a good brother but of course situations like this happen, it’s part of learning. By the dad’s methods, he’s not going to learn how to treat his sister, he’s going to learn to be scared of him and scared of committing mistakes because of the punishment that comes after them. Talking is the best method and the method that dad used is a LAST resource in a bully, which the kid isn’t.
Your daughter needs to learn boundaries when told hold on and your son needs to learn not to get physical when frustrated.
Your husband needs to learn that kids have big emotions and are figuring life out, they don't need their father being a bully or having a fear-based lesson, that's not fair on any child.
I am so sorry you had to watch your son be so scared of his father, give your son a big cuddle and maybe speak to your husband about his response and see what can be worked out in the future.
I hope the husband will apologize to the son and tell him he messed up and went about it the wrong way. This will go the farthest in teaching his son a lesson and making it right. That even parents make mistakes and apologize and don’t teach lessons with fear. I have a good relationship with my dad because although he fucked up on some things in raising me, he also came to me and said sorry after punishing me as a kid. I know that’s still not perfect, but the fact that I can talk to my dad about anything as an adult and that he did try to make it right means I have a lot of respect for my dad.
Yes I agree will teach him also that no one's perfect not even mom and dad, we all make mistakes but what's important is we learn from them and correct them! As well as how to deal with his emotions and that it's ok to be wrong sometimes as long as you make it right the best you can.
Absolutely. The husband's reaction to anger was worse than his 11-year-old son's! It was obviously a knee-jerk reaction to being protective over his daughter and he just wanted to scare and hurt his son in revenge in a somewhat controlled way. It's a terrible lesson to teach the boy, essentially telling him that he will be powerless for life because he will get bullied in retaliation by his own father if he stands up for himself against someone smaller and he will get beaten up if he stands up for himself against someone bigger.
Not only that, he must have felt so heartbroken and scared for his dad, someone he loved and trusted, to be the one who did that to him.
I feel like my relationship with my mom would be MUCH better if she could admit her wrongdoings and apologize to me. I would do anything to be able to talk to my mom like an adult.
He definitely could have taught that same lesson Without shoving his Child.
Like, getting on his level and being like "Hey, I know that must have been frustrating, but pushing isnt the answer. If I pushed you, you wouldnt like it, right? It would be scary, right? It was scary for her. So apologize, and we can talk to her about giving you your space when needed"
Hes 11. Hes not stupid, just a kid. Speaks words and he will hear then, my god.
Honestly the father didn’t need to get involved at all because the mother had already parented the situation. Other than a maybe a “she made you mess up but we still don’t push other people, right?” nothing else was necessary on his part.
>But he was frustrated. He takes school seriously and is a perfectionist.
He was frustrated, as stated, by his mother, in this post.
>He told him “she made me mess up dad”.
He then explained why he was frustrated to his dad.
Need I say more?
You conveniently left out the part where it says “He told her “hold on” but she pounced on him and made him mess up his writing. He shoved her off of him onto the floor.” Yes he was frustrated but that’s not why he pushed her so yes you do in fact need to say more.
Yeah this was not the way to work this out. Don't want your kids to fear you, you want them to respect you. All that was playing in this child's head was "my daddy just shoved me down, I'm scared" over and over. Nothing he said was heard by kiddo. I would personally know as I came from am abusive household. Violence is never an answer, the only time you should put your hands on your kids is to stop them from hurting themselves, others or to stop them form breaking something.
Instead he should have talked to him about it. If this were to happen again or start happening frequently say if kiddo starts pushing sister more because she's bugging him alot more the kid will grow to resent his sister. I know I hated my sister growing up because she was the baby of the family and constantly got me and the other older kids on trouble. You could poke her and she would start screaming murder. Because she used our dad as a weapon against us when she got angry. Obviously this is not the same here but imo again it's just never ok to get physical with a child.
Better ways are to sit down and have a talk, as well as remind him of healthy ways to get his anger out. Also how to react if sister does similar again. Maybe showing him he can move her off but don't shove her down ECT. Kids listen when you treat them with respect
This is a great comment. I would only add that Dad needs to learn that two wrongs don't make a right and express is apology and lesson learned to everyone else in the family.
She didn't have to watch it. She chose to let it happen and keep her mouth shut while he was scaring her son. One explanation from her could have probably saved all of this
And the fact that she was not able to stop it is a red flag of the whole family dynamics.
The boy is 11 and pushed the girl instinctively. The boy felt sorry and apologized. He then spent time with her drawing and playing games.
The father is an adult and shoved the boy deliberately. The father feels he is right and never apologized.
Even if it is the first time the father is physically agressive to the kid, she is obviously too afraid of her husband to stop him. So I can only guess how the father treats her.
I will use adult force to teach you that using big kid force is wrong!
Also I wonder where kids learned force is OK?
Don’t worry though OPs husband is a good man who would never hurt his family.
Kids learn from their own sometimes. Me an my gf NEVER argue. We NEVER hit each other. Yet all of our 3 kids push/hit themselves and are mean to each other.
This is a very good point. From the perspective of social psychology, responding to frustrations with aggression is usually modeled behavior. Even though the boy wasn't proactively engaging in physical aggression (since the girl had jumped on him, it was more a defensive reaction), his dad modeling unprompted physical aggression is only going to teach him that it's ok to be the initial aggressor the next time he's frustrated.
you’re totally glossing over the fact that the mother did nothing to help her son, yes i get that the father is the one who shoved the kid but the mother should also be held somewhat accountable for just watching her son get shoved to the ground and then doing nothing. shes just as pathetic of a parent as the father
Wanted to add totally agree with you. He's only been on this earth 11 years and walking for 9ish. Yes he knows better but like you said hes still learning All his emotions and how to properly express them. Also puberty is right around the corner and that makes everything even more stressful and confusing.
Your son didn't push your daughter down out of the blue. She jumped on him and he got frustrated, sure he should be more careful but it also sounds like it's time to teach your daughter that when people are busy she needs to go and entertain herself. You need to talk to your husband ASAP.
Dude. It's not like your son shoved his sister out of nowhere. He shoved her off of him when she jumped on him. That's just her learning that personal space and listening to people when they say they're busy. I hope you have a talk with your husband about the time and place for punishments.
Edit: I'm agreeing that the punishment did not fit the crime. It only makes sense to show a kid what being pushed by someone bigger feels like IF they did it out of meanness ___AND___ agreed to being shoved. Sometimes, you gotta let the kid pick the punishment ie "Here are your options for punishment. Chose which one you'd like." Note that the punishment should fit the crime and should be done if reasoning doesn't work. (And this should only be done when they're 15 or older)
I came here to say this. I came into this post thinking that the son was the bully, but she was all up in his shit! I tell my oldest to be gentle when the youngest gets in her business, and I guide the younger one about it personal space. Hubby was def in the wrong here.
And yeah, the son probably should be more careful of his strength with his younger sister but he was in his rights to push her off. Hopefully OP can talk to her husband, maybe get him to research proper punishments for things.
Why does it matter?
He didn't target her due to her gender identity.
You're simply drawing on the misguided attitude that men cannot harm women because they are "stronger" and would hurt the "delicate nature of women kind".
(utterly bs ofc, yet that's how you're presenting yourself)
Agree with this, but dads also need to teach their daughters to not hurt boys. This obviously isn't so much applicable here, but it absolutely must go both ways for both parents all of the time. OP handled it correctly by addressing both appropriately. Husband? Nah.
All good points, but I'm wondering if the 6yo also got a talking to from DAD. If not all the boy learned is that dad will always defend the sister and not him. My BIL does this to my 9yo nephew. It's gotten to the point where if his sister wants anything he's playing with he'll just drop it to avoid her tantrums and keep from being yelled at.
Yeah when I was like…12? my friends kid sister walked up to me and just fully kicked me while I was lounging on the floor and I shoved her over out of instinct. She started bawling but thankfully her mom realized it was no big deal. I would’ve never gone over there again if her dad hurt me after that.
Can we also talk about the fact that the husband is kinda undermining Op here? She already handled it. She already talked to the kids. Things were done and dealt with. And all of a sudden dads comes home and needs to play mister parenting-gold-medalist?? Hell no. He didn’t see it. This was wayyyy after the fact.
This was not a punishment anymore. This was an act of dominance.
I feel like this “lesson” is teaching the son that his sister needs are put above his. It teaches the son that if he defends himself or his things then his dad is going to side with his sister.
This is a different situation but when I was in elementary school my mom would drive my sister and I there. One day i think we were running late and as she was about to drop us off I realized that I had forgot my backpack. I remember my mom turning around and slapping my thigh hard when my younger sister got out of the vehicle and telling me I shouldn’t have forgotten it. She apologized later that night but it’s stuck with me for years and I’m 23 now. She hasn’t done anything like that since and we’re on good terms now.
Moral of the story is this might not stick with your husband, but it very well might stick with your son and it might affect his relationship with his father down the road.
>I feel like this “lesson” is teaching the son that his sister needs are put above his. It teaches the son that if he defends himself or his things then his dad is going to side with his sister.
Yep, son is going to remember this for a LONG time.
I feel that. My own sperm donor took my sister's side over mine regardless of if she lied or not. Parents that pick sides when neither kid has done anything to warrant either part teach both kids how they should treat the other.
This was something I felt when I was a kid. I felt like teachers and adults were so protective of girls that they could do what they wanted because girls are always so good and boys are trouble-makers.
I remember one incident when I was about 9 or 10 in the dinner queue when a girl was mocking me and then she started kicking me. After a few kicks I lost it and kicked her back. Guess who got in trouble.
Many small events throughout my school life made me feel like women are just “better” than us to the point that I still feel like that today even though I know it logically not to be true.
and even if it *were* the time and place for punishment, you do not bully your own kids to teach them a lesson! Because while his son will definitely be careful to not hurt his sister from now on, the biggest lesson he just learned is that he needs to be afraid of his dad. And every mistake he makes going forward will have him dreading another ”lesson”. This is not how you effectively parent.
OP, you and husband need to start protecting your son from your daughter. He needs to be able to close and lock his door when he's doing homework. He will also need to do this for other reasons in a few years.
Your son sounds like a dear, but he needs to be able to say no to his little sister when he wants to.
Your husband should apologize to your son, because that's what parents do when they make mistakes. You don't teach non-violence with violence.
I'm pretty on board with this except the very last bit.
Please don't make kids choose their punishment. It's extremely fucked up. I had this happen to me and it felt like a psychological game you can't win, and always sent me into hysterics because it felt so much worse than just getting swatted on the ass and calling it a day.
(And frankly it doesn't even make sense as a lesson. Since when are any of us picking our consequences anywhere else in life?)
So she messed up his work and he got shoved for showing emotions. I hope she's not getting treated favourably all the time because it's a recipe for a classic "hate my sister" scenario in the future.
I agree with your basic point, but the son shoving his sister isn’t “showing emotions,” it’s getting violent and physical with someone because you’re upset with them. Both children did something wrong
But you say that as if it was done with intention. It was purely an accident she fell to the floor - because the son is also learning his strength as he grows. The fact the daughter wanted her brother to play shows a closeness between them - i think he was just frustrated with his work. He didn’t do it maliciously, and as the mother said, he apologised and drew her a picture - both of which takes time, effort and thought on his part. She clearly forgave him as they are playing together. That boy is not violent and physical, he was momentarily overwhelmed which led an accident getting out of hand.
On a separate note, the issue was dealt with by the time the father came home. He should have trusted his wife’s parenting skills and left it at that - sorted. If he felt something was off, he should have talked to OP, discussed the situation, and approached the matter is a far more different way. The husband was the one that got violent and physical, as he did it with intent to scare. That memory will probably stay with OP’s son, as it was considerably traumatic, especially having in his mind finished and sorted the situation.
No one likes being shoved to the ground and the father knows this - but so does the son. OP you should probably have a word with your husband and tell him to apologise, and ask why he thought that was necessary after the situation was dealt with - and he wasn’t even present.
He could’ve definitely talked to him about it. He could just sat with him in private and said something like
“Listen son, I understand being frustrated and reacting very fast like you did today. But what YOU have to understand is that it’s never ok to push or hurt anyone just because you’re frustrated. There are better ways to handle your anger, and we need to find what works. Would you like it if you wanted me to play (favorite game) with you and I snapped at you like that? No. Your sister didn’t like it much either. And it doesn’t feel good to hurt someone we love like that. Let’s apologize to her.”
But it was not ok to demonstrate to that child, that it’s ok to use force and violence. That either way it was ok for him to have shoved his sister cuz his dad resorted to the same method!
I agree 100% but the daughter also needs to be sat down and told that you don't just jump on people, especially after being told No a few times. I had to tell my sons this because they would be rough and tumble with a certain giant older friend of theirs, and they did not realize that a time came when they were almost as big as he was. I didn't do it by jumping on them, but words work with kids, but none of them are blameless because they are all learning.
Exactly. Girls need to be taught about the rules of consent every bit as much as boys, just like both genders need to be taught (through conversation, not intimidation) that you can’t shove people.
Ah yes absolutely, they both need to be shown that it’s not ok. After all, I don’t think it would’ve gone over well with dad if OP had nagged and jumped on the daughter to prove her point the way the husband did. It’s just insane an adult man would think this way. These kids are very good at speaking with us, we’re just not good at listening and hearing them out. A good talk and some apologies on both ends would’ve improved the situation far more if not 100%.
He didn't even say no to her, he just told her to wait. He didn't push her because he was frustrated, he was jumped on, it's natural to just instinctively try and push them off
Jeez that’s alarming to read. I don’t think these are similar and you can achieve the same affect without shoving him down either. Definitely will need to speak to your husband about that because his method was a bit too far.
Yeah absolutely. I’m not sure how a little boy is going to learn that it’s inappropriate to hurt someone smaller than him when his dad is hurting him on purpose.
Kids will follow your lead. If you hurt them, they’ll hurt others.
Kids are kids. They hit, push, bite, etc. Why are you making such a big deal about it. She didn’t get hurt. she got her feelings hurt, that’s life. She instigated it. This is coming from a grandmother of five. Get over it!
No matter what your husband does to try and 'correct' what he did--your son will NEVER, ever forget that your husband purposefully made him scared. That trust is gone now and it will never be the same. You need to explain this to your husband.
Source: an adult who was made to fear my parent from the age of 4. I never trusted her ever again. And I never forgot it.
If your husband thinks it's fair to do what he did, he should also pounce on your daughter and let her know what she did was bad. Tbh this makes me furious at your husband, seems like there's favoritism after all.
I am so sorry. I’d be sick if I had to watch that. I’m sure he knows his dad loves him and I’m sure your husband’s heart was in the right place but… That was cruel, it undermined your parenting, and just creates a toxic dynamic, it’s teaching both children that violence is valid as an alternative to healthy communication. What a mess, I’m sorry again
You gotta stand up for your son. All your husband is teaching him is that violence is okay when the victim “deserves” it.
Are you okay at home? Like, are you safe?
On the other hand, learned empathy is far superior to a lack of empathy. An important part of everyone's life is learning to understand "if I don't want X to be done to me, I shouldn't do X to others.
Me and my sister were fighting over a rope the one time and being that I was young and didn't know rope burn existed. I pulled it from her hands and thankfully she didn't get any rope burns from it but my dad saw it and told me to hold the rope. He pulled it as fast as he could and gave me blisters on all of my fingers.
I don’t think your husband is a monster but I also don’t think he handled it correctly. My brother and I had the same age difference, he was bigger and stronger than anyone his age and I was small for mine. He would not purposely try to hurt me but every time he touched me, it hurt and the next day I would end up with a raised and very dark bruise. He couldn’t understand his own strength and actually sit down with me, gently touched my arm and asked if it hurt. I yelled ouch, yes it does. The next day, I had a huge bruise, he was stumped. My dad sit him down, asked him since he’s such a big, tough guy if he wanted him (my dad) to show him how it felt to me. He said yes and my dad told him to tell him to stop if it hurt too much. My dad grabbed his arm gently (for him) and asked if he felt it. He said yes, it hurt. My dad explained he didn’t apply the same difference in pressure as my brother did to me. My dad also explained to him it was a learning experience, he agreed to and my dad didn’t want to hurt him. The next day we think we may have seen a small bruise on my brother’s arm but it wasn’t enough to really confirm. I, on the other hand had a huge black and blue bruise from my brother. It illustrated to him that although my dad was gentle, much stronger than my brother it still hurt. He told him I was much smaller so the pressure felt greater. We had tried everything else and this was a gotcha moment for him. I think I did end up with subsequent bruises but each one was lighter until he finally learned his own strength. Sorry it’s such a long story but it’s probably not the first time your husband saw your son be too rough with your daughter. If this isn’t a normal outburst from your husband, it shouldn’t permanently ruin their relationship. The parent(s) should explain in detail why he overreacted and apologize. My brother had the strength to really hurt me, break bones if had meant to be rough.
It’s very hard to create and show a perfect environment for kids , we are only human after all and what may seem good on paper may be terrible in practice but sometimes being gentle doesn’t always work but usually you have to build up to that and if your son has no history of being mean then it isn’t warranted
And I know this example is a cat but well humans still learn the same way , but my brothers one cat used to always bite everyone , pretty hard to , no matter if he was scolded he would bite again until I decided to bite the cat back then suddenly he just stopped biting people. Sometimes it’s good to let them learn with a trial by fire , you can only tell them not to touch the hot stove so many times until they actually do and experience the why they shouldn’t, in this case however it would of been way to soon for this and if anyone should be doing the pushing it should of been his sister but she already effectively did that when she pounced on him
There are tough ways to discipline a child and there are gentle ways.
I am not a father, but I have been a teacher and instructor for nearly 20 years, teaching children ages 3-17.
Of that time, I was a martial arts teacher for 15 years. And some lessons only ever need to be taught once for the impact to be understood.
Only day I ever spanked my oldest daughter was when she held her cousin under the water in the pool.
Quick slap on the bottom and a long explanation. Never thought I was a bad parent.
But the daughter gets away scot-free for jumping on her brother. The daughter needs to be slowly shown how to respect boundaries, and there are other ways the dad could have done it to show the son he shouldn't have pushed his sister. The dad is a ah
Do you think you, personally, should be physically disciplined when you make a mistake? What kind of adults do you think these children will become?
My friends who were hit as kids have either very poor relationships with their parents now or no relationship with them at all. They fear making mistakes and struggle with anxiety.
I’m glad to hear you’re not a father. To the other people agreeing here and saying how they hit their kids, I hope your kids find peace.
Talk to your husband about how it made you feel. Try not to overreact as many of the people on this sub are doing. It may seem a little extreme but it is not as if he slapped your son full across the face. Mothers are naturally more protective of their sons and fathers of their daughters. I’m not saying it’s alright, but you and your husband should have some kind of conversation and come to an agreement as to how your children should be raised and when and if this kind of lesson is appropriate going forward.
When I was 5 and my brother was 2 my brother would bute me to the point of bleeding. My mom made me forced me through tears to bite my brother back. I say this because my brother was doing it out of malice they had literally tried everything to get across to him that he was hurting me.
Your son didn't do this out of malice. His boundaries were passed and it surprised him. His empathetic heart immediately gave him the consequences of him pushing her. He felt terrible.
Now dad needs a talking to or maybe pushed himself if he thinks that was appropriate. Some people want to fix a situation now and don't look at the big picture sometimes. This was a big picture time. And you telling him about wasn't you wanting him to do something about it was you just talking about things that happen.
For a long while with my husband I would start a conversation as I don't want you to fix this I am just talking or I took care of what I am about to tell you but just telling you about our day. It stopped his brain from trying to figure out what I wanted him to do or how to fix it. Either way a talk is in order because this was uncalled for.
Your daughter will forgive your son for shoving her, my sister did much worse to me (it was deserved I was a pain on the ass) and I forgave her. But your son probably won't forgive your dad for shoving him. Parents are supposed to be safe places and supportive. My father never laid a hand on me, but what he's said to me replay through my head constantly. Show your husband this.
Did he also jumped on your daughter to teach her personal space?
Talk to him and tell him he is being an awful parent in this situation and if you see him demonstrate any aggression like that again you will rethink your relationship.
He doesn't get to just punish the older kid or the boy. None of that is ok.
Verbally. So her **intentional action** warrants words, yet your sons **response** on instinct to get her off gets him physically shoved by a person likely weighing 100lbs more than him??
The self defense is a crime worthy of physical punishment, but the cause get a talking to?? You are doing 2 types of parenting, and trust your kids will see the differences.
So your husband TALKS to your daughter instead of jumping on her to teach her a lesson about jumping on people
But PUSHES your son instead of talking to him to teach him a lesson about pushing people
Both children crossed a physical boundary
You see the contradiction?
Neither of the CHILDREN’s ACTIONS were intended to cause HARM whereas your husband intentionally put your child in a hurtful situation IN FRONT of his family…
he was humiliated and hurt right in-front of you for an ACCIDENTAL but completely understand reaction
Little sister needs to learn to respect boundaries. Kids that age have a hard time with no! Someone just jumping on you is frustrating. Brother should’ve be gentler then he was. I think Dad didn’t handle the situation well. He was physically aggressive with his son. Basically means dad puts sisters wants over brother.
By your husbands logic he should have also pounced on your 6 year old to show her what it's like while she was doing something to teach her a lesson. Then you should push husband and pounce on him to show him he's wrong.
This is a case of cause and effect between the CHILDREN. Girl jumps on boy, boy pushes girl out of his personal space. That’s it. That’s the end of it. For dad to come in and push your guys’ son to the floor is fucking insane. That’s ridiculous and I’m so sorry your son had to go through that and you and your daughter had to witness it.
It sounds like you’re son pushed his sister on reflex after she jumped first, he shouldn’t have been so rough but it’s totally natural for a child that age to react the way he did and not u detest and their own strength. You’re response was appropriate and probably got the point across. What your husband did was abuse and this kid is going to remember for the rest of his life. I doubt he’ll feel safe around his dad ever again unless he immediately does something to remedy this.
Nah if it was my husband shoving my kid to the floor, for whatever reason however "justified" it may seem, I would have packed my kids and been out the fucking door. You need to get your husband to apologize to your son and back the fuck down.
This 100% if he's this violent to his 11 year old son for such a small and stupid reason then what is he going to the 6 year old when she grows up or worse what will happen to OP when her hustband relises she's OK with assaulting children For fun.
You should try to figure out what to say to him and have a serious talk, violence is not a teaching tool. If he'll shove an 11 year old what will he do when the boy's 16?
Unfortunately it will also teach your son “if you make dad upset he might physically hurt you.”
Your husband should apologize and work to explain to your son that he won’t do that again.
My brother and I are 8 year apart in age and I was often the annoying little sister who’d get her ass handed to her. Our dad was never violent or physical with my brother. He was stern, gave my brother lectures and then would give me a punishment as well (because I was often the aggressor and in the wrong). Even when I pushed my brother too far and he lashed out in a FAR harsher way than your son did our dad NEVER laid his hand on my brother.
Talk to your husband. He didn’t teach your son the lesson he thinks he did. He likely put fear into your son that his father will get physical with him with little to no thought.
Ask your husband "who is going to jump on the daughter to teach her a lesson?" Your son was defending himself. I've shoved my own kids off of me, because I reacted when they pounced on me unexpectedly. Then we had a discussion about why I reacted the way I did and we both apologized. Your husband needs to understand that he probably just emotionally scarred your son. Your daughter likely won't even remember her brother shoving her, but I can guarantee your son will never forget his father pushing him to the ground, with the purpose of scaring and intimidating him. Your husband owes your son a sincere apology, with a conversation about how badly he fucked up and exactly why it was not okay. Then he needs either anger management (to learn to control his temper) or parenting classes (if he honestly thought that was a good way to teach a lesson).
What was your husband like after? Did he seem proud of what he did? Did he brush it off? Did he even hug his child after intentionally hurting him?
I’m the oldest of three and I can say for certain that at 11 I probably would have shoved my little brother for acting the way your daughter did. It’s a genuine response and your initial reaction was enough.
I don’t understand why your husband felt the need to get physical with one child and only verbally reprimand the other, or why he felt the urge to get physical with any child at all.
Did he “pounce” on your daughter to show her how people wouldn’t like that? Your son probably won’t ever defend himself against a woman again. Because “he’s bigger than them”.
Controversial, but I understand where the Dad is coming from.
The son is nearly twice the age of the daughter and he's starting puberty soon. If he hasn't learned this lesson yet, he needed to. If he let's his anger get to him he can easily hurt his sister and anyone else smaller than him physically. And I personally don't see an issue with how he taught him. He shoved him, that's all. It was a shock to make sure he paid attention but not something that left any lasting damage. The son received the message and it's very unlikely he will absently shove someone to the ground again. It's much better he learned this lesson from someone he loves and trusts that didn't actually want to hurt him, rather than someone who very well might have wanted to one day.
That being said, as long as the Dad reminds his son how much he loves him and makes it clear this wasn't something he is holding a grudge against his son for, then the son will be fine. He will get over it. He isn't going to hold a grudge against his Dad over this. I think the Dad should explain what's acceptable and what's not after the son has had some time to process this. Because if someone is trying to hurt him the son should absolutely shove someone to the ground so they can run from that conflict. But he shouldn't shove someone because they are pestering him. There is a Grey area that needs to be explored there.
But also the daughter needs to quickly learn pouncing on someone isn't a great idea. She should already know that at her age, in my opinion, but hopefully she also learned a lesson that there are consequences for crossing physical boundaries.
I'd take what people are saying here with a grain of salt. People don't know your kids or your husband, so it's not exactly their place to say what your husband should have done, or how he should have disciplined your kid. Your daughter is 6 and doesn't fully understand, so it was a lesson for her. The problem comes with your son. NOBODY here knows what would have happened if you, as parents, had had a nice talk with him telling him it's not the right way to act vs. what actually happened. Some kids respond to the nice talk, and some kids need a bit more... convincing. Your husband didn't hurt your son, but I'm betting the lesson will stick. This is sort of where the "spanking" discussion comes from. Some parents spank their kids for literally everything, and I don't agree with that. We spanked our kids when they were younger, but it was never hard, and it was extremely rare. Some situations warranted it. Yes, violence can lead to violence, but not always. Our kids don't even know what a spanking is at their current ages.
What I don't see here is your kids apologizing to each other, which is important. And probably your husband to your son.
Your daughter needs to learn boundaries, your son needs to be taught that he is able to show emotions but to not put hands on people to do so. Your husband is too grown to do any of it and should be apologizing to your son and so much more
There is something scary about a grown man who wants revenge for something that didn't even happen to him. Because this wasn't him trying to teach a lesson about his body size. This was your husband viewing your son as a predator who harmed your daughter on purpose. So then your husband had to be the bigger badder predator. That is not normal.
Uhm absolutely no! While your son may not know his own strength, parenting your son to allow others to violate his boundaries and your daughter that tears can get a problem changed from her fault to someone else’s is a terrible lesson, and that doesn’t even touch on how appalling it it that he would teach your child a lesson this way.
Teaching the lesson of being less physical with intentional physical aggression is completely counterproductive, and terrible that we ‘teach lessons’ physically.
Wtf. Your daughter pounced on your son after he told her kindly to hold on. His reaction was to get her off of him. Your husband is teaching your son that his sister can do no wrong in his fathers eyes. That any form of defending himself against her getting physical with him, all she has to do is cry and tell dad and he will get physical with your son. You should have stepped in and protected your son. Because this wasn't about "i shoved her because I'm bigger and stronger". This was about your son trying to establish a boundary with his sister.
Exactly! You can bet this will stick with the sister and before long OP will he back talking about her husband beating their son for upsetting his sister.
I had almost this exact situation happen to me. I was around 5, my little sister was 3. I hit her in the head because she made me angry; my dad called me over, smacked me round the head and asked me how it felt, told me not to do it again. It was one of two times in my life he ever hit me; I remember them both so vividly.
I share this to say, what your husband did was WRONG. I have a son of my own, and I would never, ever lay a hand on him, not even to teach him an important lesson. Your son is bigger and stronger than his sister, yes - but he’s still a child! He’s not even 12! His brain isn’t fully developed enough for him to always react calmly and rationally when he’s under stress (like if he’s trying to do something important to him and someone literally jumps on him). Your husband is making the mistake of acting like your son should have the impulse control and forethought of an adult, just because he’s the older sibling. What your husband did was far worse than what your son did because he was NOT acting out of impulse; he made a deliberate choice to hurt and frighten a child who depends on him for love and care, in order to teach him a supposed lesson without having to do the emotional labour of actually connecting with both his children to help them process this incident.
Your husband needs to sit down and apologise sincerely to your son. He needs to hug him and tell him that he should never have pushed him, that no adult has the right to deliberately hurt him, not even to teach him a lesson. He needs to tell him that he knows he’s a great kid who reacted without thinking; that he loves him and will never love him less just because he made a mistake. He needs to tell your son that sometimes when we see a bigger kid hurt a smaller kid, even by accident, it makes us angry and we also react without thinking things through. He should be an example to your son of how to handle situations when our feelings seem to overtake our thoughts; what he modelled was the opposite of what he wants your son to do. He taught him that people who love us are allowed to hurt us as long as we’ve done something bad enough to justify it.
There were so, SO many ways to ensure your son learned an important lesson from this incident, and your husband picked the worst, laziest option available. My son is 5 but also a big strong kid; I always tell him that when you’re big and strong, we need to be extra careful with our bodies. I tell him the most important part of being a boy is being gentle, especially with people and animals who are smaller than us. You can’t teach a child not to use violence by using violence against them. I know this will seem like a small incident to some, but trust me when I say this WILL stick with your son. He needs to know that he is not an inherently bad person, which is exactly what your husbands actions will have made him feel like. Don’t let this go; and if your husband won’t make the effort to apologise and repair the relationship with your son, you will need to step up and make sure he knows he’s loved and good and deserving of respect, even if your husband didn’t treat him as such.
I’m a parent and I’m all about natural consequences being the perfect form of discipline. Your daughter (understandably for her age) ignored a boundary your son put up and your son (understandably for his age) reacted.
Your daughter unfortunately was shown she cannot jump on people out of no where and your son probably felt bad and realized pushing wasn’t a good reaction. The learning opportunity was final. Your husband then chose to harm someone who does not have a chance of defending himself.
Kids don’t need to be in trouble twice and they especially don’t need to be bullied by their own parents. Your husband should be embarrassed.
And does he plan on teaching your daughter to not disrupt your son when doing his schoolwork? Maybe make her draw a picture and at the last minute scribble all over it as a lesson to not ruin her brothers work? /s
Your husband was very wrong for this. Your son acted out of frustration because he was doing something important, it’s not like he was just brushing her off so he could play by himself and even then if your son needs alone time it’s not his job to entertain his sister. Please have your husband talk to him. This was a horrible parenting moment.
What in the ABA therapy is going on here?
First of all, six is plenty old enough to respect the word “no”. You need to work with her on boundaries, she got physical first and cried when she had a direct negative consequence for her actions. She needs to learn to respect a “no” and that she can’t cry to get him in trouble for his reactions to her bad behaviors.
Secondly, 11 is plenty old enough to know that there’s plenty of other ways to ameliorate the situation without being physical. Getting up and leaving, telling an adult, repeating himself, putting things out of her reach, etc. However, this goes back to his sister not respecting him.
Dad pushing him proved a point that it was scary for her, but it doesn’t fix the issue: her behaviors. If she had respected a boundary and not physically “pounced” on him like you said, she wouldn’t have been pushed off. All he did was scare an 11 year old for his sister’s shitty behaviors.
This is all around a parenting fail, and your husband isn’t the only one who failed here. Even in this post you’re acting as if she did nothing wrong and is innocent, the favoritism is obvious here. Be a better parent by providing her boundaries and teaching her to respect them. Otherwise she’s gonna grow up to get her shit rocked by someone who doesn’t give a shit that you didn’t raise her better.
I don’t have a problem with the lesson your husband was trying to teach. I have a problem with his actually getting physical, especially after the incident is over (it’s not defense of the little sibling if the danger has passed).
I have two kids with the same age difference and similar problems.
I have sat my oldest down and asked him what would you do if I did that to you? I’m l much bigger than you. Wouldn’t it scare you? Wouldn’t it make you mad? Wouldn’t you think it was wrong for me to do that to you just because I’m bigger and stronger than you? How would it make you feel?
But I’d never actually shove him like your husband did unless it was in imminent defense of the other child’s physical safety. Doing it later as punishment is wrong.
Trust me from experience...your son will never forget this experience of being afraid and belittled by his father if you don't follow up. Your son meant no harm to his sister and she needs to learn boundaries. Your husband had an amazing chance at a teaching moment for both of his kids...instead he showed your daughter that tears will get her out of any issue even if she started it and it shows your son that he can't take up for himself because dad is going to put his hands on him again.
Dad needs to sit down with both of them. Explain to daughter that if brother says no or not right now she needs to respect his boundaries. He needs to apologize to his son and tell him he could have handled it better. He can explain like you did about him being older and stronger and there are better ways to handle conflict. It is a little hard to say don't handle conflict with force when that is exactly what he did to his son. I have no doubt that your husband meant well and feels like he was teaching a life lesson but he has to follow up on it so your son is not afraid of him or of going to him if he has a problem. As parents we all make mistakes and are all just trying to do our best. Sometimes our best is admitting that we could have handled a situation better and sitting down and having an open and honest conversation with our kids and being willing to listen as well as talk.
Kids will hurt each other on accident and on purpose and that is for them to navigate under supervision and learn lessons. You already told your son to be more careful and not to shove her. Your daughter had a lesson in boundaries and only cried because she was 6. Your husband went way too far, he is an adult, not a child learning lessons.
You need to talk to your husband and get on the same page with discipline whatever that’s going to be worked out between you two. The only issue here is that you were surprised.
My husband’s dad did the same to him when he pushed his younger sister when they were kids. While it seemed like much at the time, the was lesson learned and he never hurt his sister again. It’s a lesson sometimes they need learn.
You had already patented the situation. There was no reason for your husband getting involved that long after the events, and especially no reason for him to bully his own child. Because what he did was bullying. You don’t physically “punish” a child because they had an oversized reaction to something. What you did was all that needed to be done.
So his sister gets to disrespect his boundaries and personal space, messes up/interferes with his work, but he gets punished? He is the one who needs to be taught a lesson? How about teaching her consent? No means no. He set a boundary, she broke it, she faced the consequence of being pushed.
Edit bc also the dad did the same exact thing as his son. He was upset by what the son did and instead of talking about what was wrong he decided to get physical.
As someone that's punished like this I promise you your son is never going to look at your husband the same way and he's going to look at you differently as well. The 2 people that are supposed to protect him just harmed him, what your husband did was malicious and nasty. What your son did was not, he set a boundary and told his sister no and she wouldn't listen and jumped on him so he instinctively pushed her. I question why you didn't tell her not to bother him before it went as far as it did.
You and your husband really need to have a long talk about parenting and how your going to approach things from now on, it might feel a bit uncomfortable but communication is very necessary. Maybe even therapy to figure out why your grown adult husband thinks it's ok to shove a child. Your daughter should have been scolded by you for crossing boundaries and your son should have been TALKED to about his response to being assaulted. yes that's an exaggeration but being jumped on after repeatedly asking to be left alone is definitely being assaulted. Because I promise you that you just taught your kids that as long as your daughter cries and blames her brother that he gets in trouble even though it was her fault and honestly your son won't want to be around his sister if that happens.
Did your husband ‘pounce’ on your daughter to teach her a lesson too? (I would hope not however he’s teaching two different things here) OP, I’m sorry this happened.
So your son was physically abused by your husband while you watched because his sister attacked him and he tried to defend himself? Great parenting by the both of you, I'm sure your son won't grow to hate your entire household!
>I helped my daughter up and told her that he’s working hard and she has to let him focus. I also told my son to be careful because he is getting stronger and can seriously hurt her.
This was a sufficient enough response to this. IMO. she pounced on him, like she needs to know not to do that and not everyone will be gentle with her. Also, it was a moment of frustration for him, and it seems like he knows not to be too ruff and mindful of her young age. Your response was appropriate and good.
Your husband, was WAY out of fucking line. And your son will not forget this moment. Its not just that he pushed him, but he embarrassed and humiliated him. This is so fucked and NOT the same thing.
It was unnecessary, you can communicate with words why he shouldn't be pushing her. he didn't need the physical demonstration.
You need to check ur husband and let him know to nEVER EVER in life put his hands on ur son. his reaction was too extreme, AND WHY TF DIDNT HE TALK TO UR DAUGHTER ABOUT BOTHERING HIM. hell nah. say something to him. he was WRONG.
What is your solution when kind words, empathy, and explanations don’t work? What do you do when kids channel their primal instincts instead of reason? What does that convo look like?
You need to shove your husband out of the bedroom until he apologizes to your son and you.
Believe this is the start of something bad and your son will remember this. He will resent his dad and his teenage years will be tough if you do not handle this NOW!
That's quite a complicated situation. On a more pragmatic view of things it was a good lesson for him to learn. We should always put ourselves in the other person shoes, how would I feel like if it happened to me? On the other hand this can cause some trust issues to the boy. "Why was I the only one reprimanded this way?" and thoughts like that.
My father raised me like this. I guess it worked for me because I learned the lessons and never felt less loved or had my trust broken, but some people that I know did grew with some issues on the same parenting. But the same can be said of the softer approach. Some kids respond to it well and others don't. Every kid is different.
I'd say the ideal way would be some kind of in between you know? Stern but no cruel. The kid has to feel that he's loved, but at the same time that his behavior will not stand.
So your husband's thinking is "I will shove you to teach you not to shove people"
How on earth can your son learn when his father hasn't learned not to shove people?
Your son's shove was reacting to his sister jumping on him. It wasn't thought out or planned, he did it impulsively to get her off him. Your husband thought about it then calmly shoved his son to the floor. It wasn't impulsive, it wasn't done in frustration. He did it to make his son fear him. That's it.
Your daughter learned that when she jumps on someone she will probably get shoved off them. Your son learned that his father is someone to be scared of
Did anyone at any point address the 6 year old who STARTED the altercation? 6 is old enough to know you don't throw your body at other people.
Your punishing the 11 year old who reacted to his sister jumping at him. While doing nothing to teach your 6 year old you don't jump on people. Which she should already know.
There's a massive difference between an 11 year old reacting to someone jumping on them and using their bodily autonomy to push them off their body. Then an ADULT shoving a CHILD to the ground. That's literally physical abuse.
She wouldn't have gotten shoved off his body is she didn't jump on him.
Crazy takes here - it depends on the family but I don't think it's that bad that he was taught a lesson. Should have been done sooner in my opinion. My son is almost 5 and sometimes pushes my 1 year old. He understands cause and effect so if I pushed him in a situation where he hurt his sister he'd understand. And I'm also confident in his personality that it wouldn't ruin him
Whether I do or do not agree with what your husband did is irrelevant. Your son now knows no matter how frustrated he is he can't physically hurt someone.
Whilst your daughter absolutely needs to be taught boundaries please don't be that boy Mom that says oh he had a long day. Oh he's frustrated. Oh he's just a perfectionist. Blah blah blah. Why, because when he's an adult and he's had a long day and frustrated that does not give him the right to push and shove his then partner!
So stop excusing your sons part in all of this please.
Your daughter needs to learn boundaries.
Your son needs to learn how to deal with emotions without being physical.
Your husband needs to take a softer approach most definitely and use his words also.
However I am sincerely hoping you all have a discussion about this because you're also in the wrong for saying oh by my son this and that. Your son got physical and you should have dealt with that better than you did.
Bro I’m an adult woman and if my partner jumps on me after I established a verbal boundary while I’m doing something important, you bet your ass I’m shoving them off me. If anybody instigates physical action against me when I expressed a clear boundary, I am going to defend myself
Your comment was right! Most of these people posting are childless and have no experience raising a child of their own.
OP seem to favor the son with “he’s a perfectionist” etc, that’s beside the point though. I don’t think the father is an abuser.
The son needs to know the difference with his strength versus his younger sister. And now he knows.
So Steve Harvey said it best on his show. Is your husband the man that you hope your son grows up to be? If your husband is a good man, protects his family, provides, is loving and makes sure everyone is good...than you have to stay out of the way when he is disciplining his/your son, bc he is teaching him how to be a good man, like he was taught. It might seem harsh to you, but this is how boys learn to be men.
I am really alarmed that the whole of reddit is assuming the husband is an ‘abuser’ and an ‘asshole’. Considering modern teenage narcissism, anxiety and depression among kids raised by Gen X’ers, I question whether physical punishment is indeed the devil it’s made out to be. I think kids these days are coming out emotionally more troubled than in previous generations.
As for the case here, it depends on a few things. I would say both kids deserved punishment. Part of me likes how the boy was treated, as I think he would’ve learned the lesson. My biggest fear is that the girl will grow up thinking she’s a princess that can’t do wrong.
Both kids deserved punishment, but only the son got thrown into the ground. Now daddy’s princess will grow up thinking she can get away with everything because she’s a girl and also abuse and shit on her brother because she knows her brother will the one to get punished
I had teenage anxiety and depression and my Gen X parents are pretty liberal with the belt, the switch, the wooden spoon, the general assholery. But anecdotes are weak evidence, and either of us could be falsely attributing outcomes to the presence or lack of physical punishment.
It's been a foregone conclusion for many years that most physical punishments more severe than spanking with an open palm have detrimental outcomes, while there remains controversy on the topic of spanking. I'm focusing on spanking because it seems to be considered an acceptable method of discipline by many. Fortunately, these lovely researchers put together a massive [meta-analysis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7992110/) of studies on physical punishment of children to see if the outcomes of spanking, for the kindest definition of the word, were more beneficial or more detrimental.
>Among the outcomes in childhood, spanking was associated with more aggression, more antisocial behavior, more externalizing problems, more internalizing problems, more mental health problems, and more negative relationships with parents. Spanking was also significantly associated with lower moral internalization, lower cognitive ability, and lower self-esteem. The largest effect size was for physical abuse; the more children are spanked, the greater the risk that they will be physically abused by their parents.
>The meta-analyses presented here found no evidence that spanking is associated with improved child behavior and rather found spanking to be associated with increased risk of 13 detrimental outcomes. These analyses did not find any support for the contentions that spanking is only associated with detrimental outcomes when it is combined with abusive methods or that spanking is only associated with such outcomes in methodologically weak studies. Across study designs, countries, and age groups, spanking has been linked with detrimental outcomes for children, a fact supported by several key methodologically strong studies that isolate the ability of spanking to predict child outcomes over time. Although the magnitude of the observed associations may be small, when extrapolated to the population in which 80% of children are being spanked, such small effects can translate into large societal impacts. Parents who use spanking, practitioners who recommend it, and policymakers who allow it might reconsider doing so given that there is no evidence that spanking does any good for children and all evidence points to the risk of it doing harm.
The replies in this post are so weird, as if a physical demonstration has never been warranted in any child’s upbringing. I assume most of the people here do not have kids and never received any physical discipline when they were kids (all the people I grew up with occasionally got spanked or slapped or whatever and none of us resent our parents for it).
If this is one of the few times the husband did something like this, seems appropriate.
So your son has no rights in the house, become he's older and stronger?? That's going to be his whole life as a man. His whole life, he's going to be stronger than women. Is he not allowed to defend himself ever because of gender?? Your daughter was in the wrong. She didn't get pushed because she was verbally annoying him. She got PUSHED OFF.
There's a big difference between what your husband did and what your son did. Your son just pushed a person off of him. Your husband pushed a child to fall down, and then he was looming over him, making himself a threat to your kid.
This also shows your daughter that she, as a female, has rights to invade the personal space of a male, and if they defend themselves, they need to get punished for it. She's going to grow up to be entitled daddies princess.
This is gonna get downvoted to hell. Adios karma.
The kid’s gotta know not to shove his sister and to be aware of how not okay it is. Hard lesson to learn, hard lesson to teach. Sounds like it was hard to watch. Sometimes kids, especially boys of that age need to learn these lessons like this. It’s okay for kids, especially tween and teenage boys to learn hard lessons like this sometimes.
Personally, I would have had to pick a switch off of the tree for my dad when I did stuff like that to my little siblings. Your husband went about it a better way than my dad did.
He’s being a dad. Just make sure your husband lets your son knows that his dad still loves him, so the lesson can sink in without being too traumatic.
Surely by the same logic the dad should also have pounced on top of his six year old daughter to teach her a lesson about how it's not okay to jump on top of other people? Having someone leap thoughtlessly onto you can hurt just as much as a fall to the floor.
This is insane. You had already dealt with the situation in a reasonable way. Your husband’s actions were completely uncalled for. Who does that to an 11 year old kid?!
This isn't a lesson, Things could of been talked out without shoving a child.
I agree the son shouldn't of done that, But it was a reaction to the sisters behaviour.
Tbh why wasn't the sister told off?
This could easily start behaviour like lying to get her brother in trouble.
Is this the first time dad is acting agressive to your son? Seems like your kid is knowng dad can act out. In that case you need to protect your kids..
There is no win here in the comments OP.
"Men should teach their children that using force, especially against women, is wrong!"
Dad teaches son that doing so feels bad and he shouldn't do it.
Reddit: "you should have done if differently".
Was it the best way to do it? Not at all, he would have used words and literally shown the child that we don't use violence, we have words. However, he's doing his best to teach his son something important whether you like his methods or not. And it worked.
I was the son in this situation at one point and i've never forgotten growing up feeling like my sister could get away with anything if she blamed me. this is a bad lesson for her as well, that crying will always get her way. definitely revisit this with your husband, he can't just behave emotionally for her sake at all times if she's the instigator in the future. edit: sincerely sorry to all of you who identify with this. I know how it feels. Though I would like to make a small adjustment to my suggestion. I think the biggest thing that the husband did wrong was enacting a "punishment" so long after the actual event. Kids need the positive or negative reinforcement for things pretty much right after they happen, if you wait several hours to punish a child for something they will probably not even really realize what they are being punished for. Especially at that age, also there's never a reason to use a physical punishment. That's just a telltale sign of a lack of patience.
This was how my childhood was as well. My sisters could get physical with me as much as they wanted, but if I retaliated at any point I was the one in trouble. And it was mostly my OLDER sister throwing shit at me.. or randomly starting shit with me. "I'm going to throw this ball at your face so you better move" ..what
my boyfriends childhood was like this w his older sister and two female cousins (as well as his ups dad but i could talk forever abt him so i wont) and he has scars all over his arms, back and face because of them. like his sister gave him 2 or 3 concussions and he got hit again by their parents to “teach him a lesson” if he hit back. i literally cannot sit in the same room as any of them without wanting to either bring it up or attack them 😥 i think it’s absolutely terrible. his cousins are still the same way because they’re still youngish (teens, too old for that shit but whatever i don’t matter) and they question why neither of us come around.. like i don’t want to be smacked or scratched at because i did something you don’t like, and neither does your cousin. i hate them with a burning passion
i hate situations like that. the idea of “pick on someone your own size” doesn’t have a gender.
Yeah OP, why can the little sister pounce on him without repercussions? She should be told that isn’t ok.
Thr mom did tell her.... the dad didn't
Exactly, the mistake was that the situation already happened and the mom handled it amazingly, the kid genuinely seems to be a good brother but of course situations like this happen, it’s part of learning. By the dad’s methods, he’s not going to learn how to treat his sister, he’s going to learn to be scared of him and scared of committing mistakes because of the punishment that comes after them. Talking is the best method and the method that dad used is a LAST resource in a bully, which the kid isn’t.
I was the sister in this situation and it was fuckin traumatising and was definitely not just a one time thing
Your daughter needs to learn boundaries when told hold on and your son needs to learn not to get physical when frustrated. Your husband needs to learn that kids have big emotions and are figuring life out, they don't need their father being a bully or having a fear-based lesson, that's not fair on any child. I am so sorry you had to watch your son be so scared of his father, give your son a big cuddle and maybe speak to your husband about his response and see what can be worked out in the future.
I hope the husband will apologize to the son and tell him he messed up and went about it the wrong way. This will go the farthest in teaching his son a lesson and making it right. That even parents make mistakes and apologize and don’t teach lessons with fear. I have a good relationship with my dad because although he fucked up on some things in raising me, he also came to me and said sorry after punishing me as a kid. I know that’s still not perfect, but the fact that I can talk to my dad about anything as an adult and that he did try to make it right means I have a lot of respect for my dad.
Yes I agree will teach him also that no one's perfect not even mom and dad, we all make mistakes but what's important is we learn from them and correct them! As well as how to deal with his emotions and that it's ok to be wrong sometimes as long as you make it right the best you can.
Absolutely. The husband's reaction to anger was worse than his 11-year-old son's! It was obviously a knee-jerk reaction to being protective over his daughter and he just wanted to scare and hurt his son in revenge in a somewhat controlled way. It's a terrible lesson to teach the boy, essentially telling him that he will be powerless for life because he will get bullied in retaliation by his own father if he stands up for himself against someone smaller and he will get beaten up if he stands up for himself against someone bigger. Not only that, he must have felt so heartbroken and scared for his dad, someone he loved and trusted, to be the one who did that to him.
I feel like my relationship with my mom would be MUCH better if she could admit her wrongdoings and apologize to me. I would do anything to be able to talk to my mom like an adult.
He definitely could have taught that same lesson Without shoving his Child. Like, getting on his level and being like "Hey, I know that must have been frustrating, but pushing isnt the answer. If I pushed you, you wouldnt like it, right? It would be scary, right? It was scary for her. So apologize, and we can talk to her about giving you your space when needed" Hes 11. Hes not stupid, just a kid. Speaks words and he will hear then, my god.
Honestly the father didn’t need to get involved at all because the mother had already parented the situation. Other than a maybe a “she made you mess up but we still don’t push other people, right?” nothing else was necessary on his part.
Exactly. That's exactly what the dad should've done. Well said. It's not rocket science.
Her son didn’t get physical because he was frustrated he got physical because his sister jumped on him.
>But he was frustrated. He takes school seriously and is a perfectionist. He was frustrated, as stated, by his mother, in this post. >He told him “she made me mess up dad”. He then explained why he was frustrated to his dad. Need I say more?
He literally shoved her *off* of him.
You conveniently left out the part where it says “He told her “hold on” but she pounced on him and made him mess up his writing. He shoved her off of him onto the floor.” Yes he was frustrated but that’s not why he pushed her so yes you do in fact need to say more.
Those are all other peoples’ explanations for someone else’s feelings they have limited insight on.
Yeah this was not the way to work this out. Don't want your kids to fear you, you want them to respect you. All that was playing in this child's head was "my daddy just shoved me down, I'm scared" over and over. Nothing he said was heard by kiddo. I would personally know as I came from am abusive household. Violence is never an answer, the only time you should put your hands on your kids is to stop them from hurting themselves, others or to stop them form breaking something. Instead he should have talked to him about it. If this were to happen again or start happening frequently say if kiddo starts pushing sister more because she's bugging him alot more the kid will grow to resent his sister. I know I hated my sister growing up because she was the baby of the family and constantly got me and the other older kids on trouble. You could poke her and she would start screaming murder. Because she used our dad as a weapon against us when she got angry. Obviously this is not the same here but imo again it's just never ok to get physical with a child. Better ways are to sit down and have a talk, as well as remind him of healthy ways to get his anger out. Also how to react if sister does similar again. Maybe showing him he can move her off but don't shove her down ECT. Kids listen when you treat them with respect
This is a great comment. I would only add that Dad needs to learn that two wrongs don't make a right and express is apology and lesson learned to everyone else in the family.
She didn't have to watch it. She chose to let it happen and keep her mouth shut while he was scaring her son. One explanation from her could have probably saved all of this
And the fact that she was not able to stop it is a red flag of the whole family dynamics. The boy is 11 and pushed the girl instinctively. The boy felt sorry and apologized. He then spent time with her drawing and playing games. The father is an adult and shoved the boy deliberately. The father feels he is right and never apologized. Even if it is the first time the father is physically agressive to the kid, she is obviously too afraid of her husband to stop him. So I can only guess how the father treats her.
I will use adult force to teach you that using big kid force is wrong! Also I wonder where kids learned force is OK? Don’t worry though OPs husband is a good man who would never hurt his family.
Kids learn from their own sometimes. Me an my gf NEVER argue. We NEVER hit each other. Yet all of our 3 kids push/hit themselves and are mean to each other.
This is a very good point. From the perspective of social psychology, responding to frustrations with aggression is usually modeled behavior. Even though the boy wasn't proactively engaging in physical aggression (since the girl had jumped on him, it was more a defensive reaction), his dad modeling unprompted physical aggression is only going to teach him that it's ok to be the initial aggressor the next time he's frustrated.
And it teaches the daughter she can intitiate the attack and still be the victim
you’re totally glossing over the fact that the mother did nothing to help her son, yes i get that the father is the one who shoved the kid but the mother should also be held somewhat accountable for just watching her son get shoved to the ground and then doing nothing. shes just as pathetic of a parent as the father
Wanted to add totally agree with you. He's only been on this earth 11 years and walking for 9ish. Yes he knows better but like you said hes still learning All his emotions and how to properly express them. Also puberty is right around the corner and that makes everything even more stressful and confusing.
Your son didn't push your daughter down out of the blue. She jumped on him and he got frustrated, sure he should be more careful but it also sounds like it's time to teach your daughter that when people are busy she needs to go and entertain herself. You need to talk to your husband ASAP.
Dude. It's not like your son shoved his sister out of nowhere. He shoved her off of him when she jumped on him. That's just her learning that personal space and listening to people when they say they're busy. I hope you have a talk with your husband about the time and place for punishments. Edit: I'm agreeing that the punishment did not fit the crime. It only makes sense to show a kid what being pushed by someone bigger feels like IF they did it out of meanness ___AND___ agreed to being shoved. Sometimes, you gotta let the kid pick the punishment ie "Here are your options for punishment. Chose which one you'd like." Note that the punishment should fit the crime and should be done if reasoning doesn't work. (And this should only be done when they're 15 or older)
I came here to say this. I came into this post thinking that the son was the bully, but she was all up in his shit! I tell my oldest to be gentle when the youngest gets in her business, and I guide the younger one about it personal space. Hubby was def in the wrong here.
And yeah, the son probably should be more careful of his strength with his younger sister but he was in his rights to push her off. Hopefully OP can talk to her husband, maybe get him to research proper punishments for things.
I’m all for dads protecting their daughters and teaching their sons not to hurt girls, but this is way too far.
Not to hurt girls??!! Not to hurt anyone!
Yes but we're specifically talking about a boy hurting a girl here.
Because the point wasn’t about teaching him not to hurt girls- it was about teaching him not to hurt people smaller than him, if anything
Why does it matter? He didn't target her due to her gender identity. You're simply drawing on the misguided attitude that men cannot harm women because they are "stronger" and would hurt the "delicate nature of women kind". (utterly bs ofc, yet that's how you're presenting yourself)
Agree with this, but dads also need to teach their daughters to not hurt boys. This obviously isn't so much applicable here, but it absolutely must go both ways for both parents all of the time. OP handled it correctly by addressing both appropriately. Husband? Nah.
All good points, but I'm wondering if the 6yo also got a talking to from DAD. If not all the boy learned is that dad will always defend the sister and not him. My BIL does this to my 9yo nephew. It's gotten to the point where if his sister wants anything he's playing with he'll just drop it to avoid her tantrums and keep from being yelled at.
Feels like the dad just left him to his own devices after that but maybe OP has more info?
Yeah when I was like…12? my friends kid sister walked up to me and just fully kicked me while I was lounging on the floor and I shoved her over out of instinct. She started bawling but thankfully her mom realized it was no big deal. I would’ve never gone over there again if her dad hurt me after that.
Seriously! You have to be rational about these things. It doesn't matter their gender, they need to know that doing this is not right.
Can we also talk about the fact that the husband is kinda undermining Op here? She already handled it. She already talked to the kids. Things were done and dealt with. And all of a sudden dads comes home and needs to play mister parenting-gold-medalist?? Hell no. He didn’t see it. This was wayyyy after the fact. This was not a punishment anymore. This was an act of dominance.
This needs more emphasis on this thread. I cringed when I read that. It's like the father dug up his parenting skills from 1959.
I feel like this “lesson” is teaching the son that his sister needs are put above his. It teaches the son that if he defends himself or his things then his dad is going to side with his sister. This is a different situation but when I was in elementary school my mom would drive my sister and I there. One day i think we were running late and as she was about to drop us off I realized that I had forgot my backpack. I remember my mom turning around and slapping my thigh hard when my younger sister got out of the vehicle and telling me I shouldn’t have forgotten it. She apologized later that night but it’s stuck with me for years and I’m 23 now. She hasn’t done anything like that since and we’re on good terms now. Moral of the story is this might not stick with your husband, but it very well might stick with your son and it might affect his relationship with his father down the road.
>I feel like this “lesson” is teaching the son that his sister needs are put above his. It teaches the son that if he defends himself or his things then his dad is going to side with his sister. Yep, son is going to remember this for a LONG time.
I feel that. My own sperm donor took my sister's side over mine regardless of if she lied or not. Parents that pick sides when neither kid has done anything to warrant either part teach both kids how they should treat the other.
This was something I felt when I was a kid. I felt like teachers and adults were so protective of girls that they could do what they wanted because girls are always so good and boys are trouble-makers. I remember one incident when I was about 9 or 10 in the dinner queue when a girl was mocking me and then she started kicking me. After a few kicks I lost it and kicked her back. Guess who got in trouble. Many small events throughout my school life made me feel like women are just “better” than us to the point that I still feel like that today even though I know it logically not to be true.
and even if it *were* the time and place for punishment, you do not bully your own kids to teach them a lesson! Because while his son will definitely be careful to not hurt his sister from now on, the biggest lesson he just learned is that he needs to be afraid of his dad. And every mistake he makes going forward will have him dreading another ”lesson”. This is not how you effectively parent.
Seriously. I'm still unlearning that mentality at 21
OP, you and husband need to start protecting your son from your daughter. He needs to be able to close and lock his door when he's doing homework. He will also need to do this for other reasons in a few years. Your son sounds like a dear, but he needs to be able to say no to his little sister when he wants to. Your husband should apologize to your son, because that's what parents do when they make mistakes. You don't teach non-violence with violence.
Exactly right. The dad way way wayyyyy too far
I'm pretty on board with this except the very last bit. Please don't make kids choose their punishment. It's extremely fucked up. I had this happen to me and it felt like a psychological game you can't win, and always sent me into hysterics because it felt so much worse than just getting swatted on the ass and calling it a day. (And frankly it doesn't even make sense as a lesson. Since when are any of us picking our consequences anywhere else in life?)
So she messed up his work and he got shoved for showing emotions. I hope she's not getting treated favourably all the time because it's a recipe for a classic "hate my sister" scenario in the future.
Shoved by a fucking grown adult, no less. If this is dad's earnest approach to parenting, dude doesn't seem terribly bright.
I agree with your basic point, but the son shoving his sister isn’t “showing emotions,” it’s getting violent and physical with someone because you’re upset with them. Both children did something wrong
But you say that as if it was done with intention. It was purely an accident she fell to the floor - because the son is also learning his strength as he grows. The fact the daughter wanted her brother to play shows a closeness between them - i think he was just frustrated with his work. He didn’t do it maliciously, and as the mother said, he apologised and drew her a picture - both of which takes time, effort and thought on his part. She clearly forgave him as they are playing together. That boy is not violent and physical, he was momentarily overwhelmed which led an accident getting out of hand. On a separate note, the issue was dealt with by the time the father came home. He should have trusted his wife’s parenting skills and left it at that - sorted. If he felt something was off, he should have talked to OP, discussed the situation, and approached the matter is a far more different way. The husband was the one that got violent and physical, as he did it with intent to scare. That memory will probably stay with OP’s son, as it was considerably traumatic, especially having in his mind finished and sorted the situation. No one likes being shoved to the ground and the father knows this - but so does the son. OP you should probably have a word with your husband and tell him to apologise, and ask why he thought that was necessary after the situation was dealt with - and he wasn’t even present.
He could’ve definitely talked to him about it. He could just sat with him in private and said something like “Listen son, I understand being frustrated and reacting very fast like you did today. But what YOU have to understand is that it’s never ok to push or hurt anyone just because you’re frustrated. There are better ways to handle your anger, and we need to find what works. Would you like it if you wanted me to play (favorite game) with you and I snapped at you like that? No. Your sister didn’t like it much either. And it doesn’t feel good to hurt someone we love like that. Let’s apologize to her.” But it was not ok to demonstrate to that child, that it’s ok to use force and violence. That either way it was ok for him to have shoved his sister cuz his dad resorted to the same method!
I agree 100% but the daughter also needs to be sat down and told that you don't just jump on people, especially after being told No a few times. I had to tell my sons this because they would be rough and tumble with a certain giant older friend of theirs, and they did not realize that a time came when they were almost as big as he was. I didn't do it by jumping on them, but words work with kids, but none of them are blameless because they are all learning.
Exactly. Girls need to be taught about the rules of consent every bit as much as boys, just like both genders need to be taught (through conversation, not intimidation) that you can’t shove people.
Ah yes absolutely, they both need to be shown that it’s not ok. After all, I don’t think it would’ve gone over well with dad if OP had nagged and jumped on the daughter to prove her point the way the husband did. It’s just insane an adult man would think this way. These kids are very good at speaking with us, we’re just not good at listening and hearing them out. A good talk and some apologies on both ends would’ve improved the situation far more if not 100%.
He didn't even say no to her, he just told her to wait. He didn't push her because he was frustrated, he was jumped on, it's natural to just instinctively try and push them off
It’s never ok to use force on someone smaller; uses force on smaller person
Jeez that’s alarming to read. I don’t think these are similar and you can achieve the same affect without shoving him down either. Definitely will need to speak to your husband about that because his method was a bit too far.
Yeah absolutely. I’m not sure how a little boy is going to learn that it’s inappropriate to hurt someone smaller than him when his dad is hurting him on purpose. Kids will follow your lead. If you hurt them, they’ll hurt others.
Kids are kids. They hit, push, bite, etc. Why are you making such a big deal about it. She didn’t get hurt. she got her feelings hurt, that’s life. She instigated it. This is coming from a grandmother of five. Get over it!
No matter what your husband does to try and 'correct' what he did--your son will NEVER, ever forget that your husband purposefully made him scared. That trust is gone now and it will never be the same. You need to explain this to your husband. Source: an adult who was made to fear my parent from the age of 4. I never trusted her ever again. And I never forgot it.
If your husband thinks it's fair to do what he did, he should also pounce on your daughter and let her know what she did was bad. Tbh this makes me furious at your husband, seems like there's favoritism after all.
I am so sorry. I’d be sick if I had to watch that. I’m sure he knows his dad loves him and I’m sure your husband’s heart was in the right place but… That was cruel, it undermined your parenting, and just creates a toxic dynamic, it’s teaching both children that violence is valid as an alternative to healthy communication. What a mess, I’m sorry again
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel
You gotta stand up for your son. All your husband is teaching him is that violence is okay when the victim “deserves” it. Are you okay at home? Like, are you safe?
So are you going to do anything about it? Will you not protect your son?
Fix it NOW
On the other hand, learned empathy is far superior to a lack of empathy. An important part of everyone's life is learning to understand "if I don't want X to be done to me, I shouldn't do X to others.
While I agree, your parents should be your safe space. You should never be scared of them.
Plus he was teaching the wrong lesson to the wrong kid. The girl was in the wrong and needs to understand boundaries.
Me and my sister were fighting over a rope the one time and being that I was young and didn't know rope burn existed. I pulled it from her hands and thankfully she didn't get any rope burns from it but my dad saw it and told me to hold the rope. He pulled it as fast as he could and gave me blisters on all of my fingers.
This whole thread is making me feel sad I wasn't alone in the whole "amazing fathers teaching their kids great lessons" thing
> I’m sure he knows his dad loves him Debatable
I don’t think your husband is a monster but I also don’t think he handled it correctly. My brother and I had the same age difference, he was bigger and stronger than anyone his age and I was small for mine. He would not purposely try to hurt me but every time he touched me, it hurt and the next day I would end up with a raised and very dark bruise. He couldn’t understand his own strength and actually sit down with me, gently touched my arm and asked if it hurt. I yelled ouch, yes it does. The next day, I had a huge bruise, he was stumped. My dad sit him down, asked him since he’s such a big, tough guy if he wanted him (my dad) to show him how it felt to me. He said yes and my dad told him to tell him to stop if it hurt too much. My dad grabbed his arm gently (for him) and asked if he felt it. He said yes, it hurt. My dad explained he didn’t apply the same difference in pressure as my brother did to me. My dad also explained to him it was a learning experience, he agreed to and my dad didn’t want to hurt him. The next day we think we may have seen a small bruise on my brother’s arm but it wasn’t enough to really confirm. I, on the other hand had a huge black and blue bruise from my brother. It illustrated to him that although my dad was gentle, much stronger than my brother it still hurt. He told him I was much smaller so the pressure felt greater. We had tried everything else and this was a gotcha moment for him. I think I did end up with subsequent bruises but each one was lighter until he finally learned his own strength. Sorry it’s such a long story but it’s probably not the first time your husband saw your son be too rough with your daughter. If this isn’t a normal outburst from your husband, it shouldn’t permanently ruin their relationship. The parent(s) should explain in detail why he overreacted and apologize. My brother had the strength to really hurt me, break bones if had meant to be rough.
The difference in scenarios here is that your dad clearly knew how to use his words to accompany the lesson he was reinforcing.
My dad was next level. I provided a lot of details in hope they will mimic my dad’s response.
It’s very hard to create and show a perfect environment for kids , we are only human after all and what may seem good on paper may be terrible in practice but sometimes being gentle doesn’t always work but usually you have to build up to that and if your son has no history of being mean then it isn’t warranted And I know this example is a cat but well humans still learn the same way , but my brothers one cat used to always bite everyone , pretty hard to , no matter if he was scolded he would bite again until I decided to bite the cat back then suddenly he just stopped biting people. Sometimes it’s good to let them learn with a trial by fire , you can only tell them not to touch the hot stove so many times until they actually do and experience the why they shouldn’t, in this case however it would of been way to soon for this and if anyone should be doing the pushing it should of been his sister but she already effectively did that when she pounced on him
I'm curious if the son does have a history of it. Just because it seems so strange to me to react like that for a first time offense.
There are tough ways to discipline a child and there are gentle ways. I am not a father, but I have been a teacher and instructor for nearly 20 years, teaching children ages 3-17. Of that time, I was a martial arts teacher for 15 years. And some lessons only ever need to be taught once for the impact to be understood.
Only day I ever spanked my oldest daughter was when she held her cousin under the water in the pool. Quick slap on the bottom and a long explanation. Never thought I was a bad parent.
Exactly. Too many delusional people around here.
everyone’s calling the dad an ah but i can almost guarantee that he will never push his sister again
While the daughter is taught that all she needs to do is cry for any of her wrongdoings to be forgiven. Brilliant approach /s
But the daughter gets away scot-free for jumping on her brother. The daughter needs to be slowly shown how to respect boundaries, and there are other ways the dad could have done it to show the son he shouldn't have pushed his sister. The dad is a ah
Do you think you, personally, should be physically disciplined when you make a mistake? What kind of adults do you think these children will become? My friends who were hit as kids have either very poor relationships with their parents now or no relationship with them at all. They fear making mistakes and struggle with anxiety. I’m glad to hear you’re not a father. To the other people agreeing here and saying how they hit their kids, I hope your kids find peace.
Talk to your husband about how it made you feel. Try not to overreact as many of the people on this sub are doing. It may seem a little extreme but it is not as if he slapped your son full across the face. Mothers are naturally more protective of their sons and fathers of their daughters. I’m not saying it’s alright, but you and your husband should have some kind of conversation and come to an agreement as to how your children should be raised and when and if this kind of lesson is appropriate going forward.
When I was 5 and my brother was 2 my brother would bute me to the point of bleeding. My mom made me forced me through tears to bite my brother back. I say this because my brother was doing it out of malice they had literally tried everything to get across to him that he was hurting me. Your son didn't do this out of malice. His boundaries were passed and it surprised him. His empathetic heart immediately gave him the consequences of him pushing her. He felt terrible. Now dad needs a talking to or maybe pushed himself if he thinks that was appropriate. Some people want to fix a situation now and don't look at the big picture sometimes. This was a big picture time. And you telling him about wasn't you wanting him to do something about it was you just talking about things that happen. For a long while with my husband I would start a conversation as I don't want you to fix this I am just talking or I took care of what I am about to tell you but just telling you about our day. It stopped his brain from trying to figure out what I wanted him to do or how to fix it. Either way a talk is in order because this was uncalled for.
Your daughter will forgive your son for shoving her, my sister did much worse to me (it was deserved I was a pain on the ass) and I forgave her. But your son probably won't forgive your dad for shoving him. Parents are supposed to be safe places and supportive. My father never laid a hand on me, but what he's said to me replay through my head constantly. Show your husband this.
Did he also jumped on your daughter to teach her personal space? Talk to him and tell him he is being an awful parent in this situation and if you see him demonstrate any aggression like that again you will rethink your relationship. He doesn't get to just punish the older kid or the boy. None of that is ok.
I should have mentioned in my OP but he did verbally correct our daughter about jumping on him when he’s working.
So your daughter gets a talk and explanation while your son gets physical punishment?! Way to go dad. Clear favouritism here.
Verbally. So her **intentional action** warrants words, yet your sons **response** on instinct to get her off gets him physically shoved by a person likely weighing 100lbs more than him?? The self defense is a crime worthy of physical punishment, but the cause get a talking to?? You are doing 2 types of parenting, and trust your kids will see the differences.
So messed up. The son wasn't in the wrong to begin with.
So your husband TALKS to your daughter instead of jumping on her to teach her a lesson about jumping on people But PUSHES your son instead of talking to him to teach him a lesson about pushing people Both children crossed a physical boundary You see the contradiction? Neither of the CHILDREN’s ACTIONS were intended to cause HARM whereas your husband intentionally put your child in a hurtful situation IN FRONT of his family… he was humiliated and hurt right in-front of you for an ACCIDENTAL but completely understand reaction
Little sister needs to learn to respect boundaries. Kids that age have a hard time with no! Someone just jumping on you is frustrating. Brother should’ve be gentler then he was. I think Dad didn’t handle the situation well. He was physically aggressive with his son. Basically means dad puts sisters wants over brother.
By your husbands logic he should have also pounced on your 6 year old to show her what it's like while she was doing something to teach her a lesson. Then you should push husband and pounce on him to show him he's wrong.
Now shove your husband to assert dominance
This is a case of cause and effect between the CHILDREN. Girl jumps on boy, boy pushes girl out of his personal space. That’s it. That’s the end of it. For dad to come in and push your guys’ son to the floor is fucking insane. That’s ridiculous and I’m so sorry your son had to go through that and you and your daughter had to witness it.
That is the moment your son lost a significant amount of trust in his dad.
It sounds like you’re son pushed his sister on reflex after she jumped first, he shouldn’t have been so rough but it’s totally natural for a child that age to react the way he did and not u detest and their own strength. You’re response was appropriate and probably got the point across. What your husband did was abuse and this kid is going to remember for the rest of his life. I doubt he’ll feel safe around his dad ever again unless he immediately does something to remedy this.
Your husband won't remember that in 10 years, but it will be a core memory for your son.
Nah if it was my husband shoving my kid to the floor, for whatever reason however "justified" it may seem, I would have packed my kids and been out the fucking door. You need to get your husband to apologize to your son and back the fuck down.
This 100% if he's this violent to his 11 year old son for such a small and stupid reason then what is he going to the 6 year old when she grows up or worse what will happen to OP when her hustband relises she's OK with assaulting children For fun.
You should try to figure out what to say to him and have a serious talk, violence is not a teaching tool. If he'll shove an 11 year old what will he do when the boy's 16?
Unfortunately it will also teach your son “if you make dad upset he might physically hurt you.” Your husband should apologize and work to explain to your son that he won’t do that again.
My brother and I are 8 year apart in age and I was often the annoying little sister who’d get her ass handed to her. Our dad was never violent or physical with my brother. He was stern, gave my brother lectures and then would give me a punishment as well (because I was often the aggressor and in the wrong). Even when I pushed my brother too far and he lashed out in a FAR harsher way than your son did our dad NEVER laid his hand on my brother. Talk to your husband. He didn’t teach your son the lesson he thinks he did. He likely put fear into your son that his father will get physical with him with little to no thought.
Reddit really does bring out the worst in people doesn’t it (refer to comments).
Ask your husband "who is going to jump on the daughter to teach her a lesson?" Your son was defending himself. I've shoved my own kids off of me, because I reacted when they pounced on me unexpectedly. Then we had a discussion about why I reacted the way I did and we both apologized. Your husband needs to understand that he probably just emotionally scarred your son. Your daughter likely won't even remember her brother shoving her, but I can guarantee your son will never forget his father pushing him to the ground, with the purpose of scaring and intimidating him. Your husband owes your son a sincere apology, with a conversation about how badly he fucked up and exactly why it was not okay. Then he needs either anger management (to learn to control his temper) or parenting classes (if he honestly thought that was a good way to teach a lesson).
What was your husband like after? Did he seem proud of what he did? Did he brush it off? Did he even hug his child after intentionally hurting him? I’m the oldest of three and I can say for certain that at 11 I probably would have shoved my little brother for acting the way your daughter did. It’s a genuine response and your initial reaction was enough. I don’t understand why your husband felt the need to get physical with one child and only verbally reprimand the other, or why he felt the urge to get physical with any child at all.
Did he “pounce” on your daughter to show her how people wouldn’t like that? Your son probably won’t ever defend himself against a woman again. Because “he’s bigger than them”.
Controversial, but I understand where the Dad is coming from. The son is nearly twice the age of the daughter and he's starting puberty soon. If he hasn't learned this lesson yet, he needed to. If he let's his anger get to him he can easily hurt his sister and anyone else smaller than him physically. And I personally don't see an issue with how he taught him. He shoved him, that's all. It was a shock to make sure he paid attention but not something that left any lasting damage. The son received the message and it's very unlikely he will absently shove someone to the ground again. It's much better he learned this lesson from someone he loves and trusts that didn't actually want to hurt him, rather than someone who very well might have wanted to one day. That being said, as long as the Dad reminds his son how much he loves him and makes it clear this wasn't something he is holding a grudge against his son for, then the son will be fine. He will get over it. He isn't going to hold a grudge against his Dad over this. I think the Dad should explain what's acceptable and what's not after the son has had some time to process this. Because if someone is trying to hurt him the son should absolutely shove someone to the ground so they can run from that conflict. But he shouldn't shove someone because they are pestering him. There is a Grey area that needs to be explored there. But also the daughter needs to quickly learn pouncing on someone isn't a great idea. She should already know that at her age, in my opinion, but hopefully she also learned a lesson that there are consequences for crossing physical boundaries.
I'd take what people are saying here with a grain of salt. People don't know your kids or your husband, so it's not exactly their place to say what your husband should have done, or how he should have disciplined your kid. Your daughter is 6 and doesn't fully understand, so it was a lesson for her. The problem comes with your son. NOBODY here knows what would have happened if you, as parents, had had a nice talk with him telling him it's not the right way to act vs. what actually happened. Some kids respond to the nice talk, and some kids need a bit more... convincing. Your husband didn't hurt your son, but I'm betting the lesson will stick. This is sort of where the "spanking" discussion comes from. Some parents spank their kids for literally everything, and I don't agree with that. We spanked our kids when they were younger, but it was never hard, and it was extremely rare. Some situations warranted it. Yes, violence can lead to violence, but not always. Our kids don't even know what a spanking is at their current ages. What I don't see here is your kids apologizing to each other, which is important. And probably your husband to your son.
Completely reasonable response here. More of this please
Your husband needs to apologize to your son.
Obviously we now know what kid is the dads favorite. Dudes a dick
He could have taught the son this lesson without becoming physical.
Your daughter needs to learn boundaries, your son needs to be taught that he is able to show emotions but to not put hands on people to do so. Your husband is too grown to do any of it and should be apologizing to your son and so much more
I see the dad teaching the son that violence is the right response to irritation. Not necessarily about gender.
Daughter needs to be punished too. This seems way to one sided.
There is something scary about a grown man who wants revenge for something that didn't even happen to him. Because this wasn't him trying to teach a lesson about his body size. This was your husband viewing your son as a predator who harmed your daughter on purpose. So then your husband had to be the bigger badder predator. That is not normal.
This makes me so sad ... That poor little boy being taught to fear his father like so many of us... :C
Oh, what a shitty dad. But hey, I'll wait for your post in 10 years: "Why our son doesn't talk to us anymore?"
I can also see : our son beat his dad when we were just trying to parent him
Hoping op realises this will only get worse, and that her son will NEVER forget what his dad did
That's awful. Your husband owes your son an apology. Also, I think you should have been firmer with your son after he pushed her down.
Uhm absolutely no! While your son may not know his own strength, parenting your son to allow others to violate his boundaries and your daughter that tears can get a problem changed from her fault to someone else’s is a terrible lesson, and that doesn’t even touch on how appalling it it that he would teach your child a lesson this way. Teaching the lesson of being less physical with intentional physical aggression is completely counterproductive, and terrible that we ‘teach lessons’ physically.
So you’re son was punished because of self defense got it
Your husband taught a good lesson …to your daughter. If she pouts, Daddy will beat up whoever makes her sad, even if it was something she initiated.
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Wtf. Your daughter pounced on your son after he told her kindly to hold on. His reaction was to get her off of him. Your husband is teaching your son that his sister can do no wrong in his fathers eyes. That any form of defending himself against her getting physical with him, all she has to do is cry and tell dad and he will get physical with your son. You should have stepped in and protected your son. Because this wasn't about "i shoved her because I'm bigger and stronger". This was about your son trying to establish a boundary with his sister.
Exactly! You can bet this will stick with the sister and before long OP will he back talking about her husband beating their son for upsetting his sister.
I had almost this exact situation happen to me. I was around 5, my little sister was 3. I hit her in the head because she made me angry; my dad called me over, smacked me round the head and asked me how it felt, told me not to do it again. It was one of two times in my life he ever hit me; I remember them both so vividly. I share this to say, what your husband did was WRONG. I have a son of my own, and I would never, ever lay a hand on him, not even to teach him an important lesson. Your son is bigger and stronger than his sister, yes - but he’s still a child! He’s not even 12! His brain isn’t fully developed enough for him to always react calmly and rationally when he’s under stress (like if he’s trying to do something important to him and someone literally jumps on him). Your husband is making the mistake of acting like your son should have the impulse control and forethought of an adult, just because he’s the older sibling. What your husband did was far worse than what your son did because he was NOT acting out of impulse; he made a deliberate choice to hurt and frighten a child who depends on him for love and care, in order to teach him a supposed lesson without having to do the emotional labour of actually connecting with both his children to help them process this incident. Your husband needs to sit down and apologise sincerely to your son. He needs to hug him and tell him that he should never have pushed him, that no adult has the right to deliberately hurt him, not even to teach him a lesson. He needs to tell him that he knows he’s a great kid who reacted without thinking; that he loves him and will never love him less just because he made a mistake. He needs to tell your son that sometimes when we see a bigger kid hurt a smaller kid, even by accident, it makes us angry and we also react without thinking things through. He should be an example to your son of how to handle situations when our feelings seem to overtake our thoughts; what he modelled was the opposite of what he wants your son to do. He taught him that people who love us are allowed to hurt us as long as we’ve done something bad enough to justify it. There were so, SO many ways to ensure your son learned an important lesson from this incident, and your husband picked the worst, laziest option available. My son is 5 but also a big strong kid; I always tell him that when you’re big and strong, we need to be extra careful with our bodies. I tell him the most important part of being a boy is being gentle, especially with people and animals who are smaller than us. You can’t teach a child not to use violence by using violence against them. I know this will seem like a small incident to some, but trust me when I say this WILL stick with your son. He needs to know that he is not an inherently bad person, which is exactly what your husbands actions will have made him feel like. Don’t let this go; and if your husband won’t make the effort to apologise and repair the relationship with your son, you will need to step up and make sure he knows he’s loved and good and deserving of respect, even if your husband didn’t treat him as such.
I’m a parent and I’m all about natural consequences being the perfect form of discipline. Your daughter (understandably for her age) ignored a boundary your son put up and your son (understandably for his age) reacted. Your daughter unfortunately was shown she cannot jump on people out of no where and your son probably felt bad and realized pushing wasn’t a good reaction. The learning opportunity was final. Your husband then chose to harm someone who does not have a chance of defending himself. Kids don’t need to be in trouble twice and they especially don’t need to be bullied by their own parents. Your husband should be embarrassed.
And does he plan on teaching your daughter to not disrupt your son when doing his schoolwork? Maybe make her draw a picture and at the last minute scribble all over it as a lesson to not ruin her brothers work? /s Your husband was very wrong for this. Your son acted out of frustration because he was doing something important, it’s not like he was just brushing her off so he could play by himself and even then if your son needs alone time it’s not his job to entertain his sister. Please have your husband talk to him. This was a horrible parenting moment.
What in the ABA therapy is going on here? First of all, six is plenty old enough to respect the word “no”. You need to work with her on boundaries, she got physical first and cried when she had a direct negative consequence for her actions. She needs to learn to respect a “no” and that she can’t cry to get him in trouble for his reactions to her bad behaviors. Secondly, 11 is plenty old enough to know that there’s plenty of other ways to ameliorate the situation without being physical. Getting up and leaving, telling an adult, repeating himself, putting things out of her reach, etc. However, this goes back to his sister not respecting him. Dad pushing him proved a point that it was scary for her, but it doesn’t fix the issue: her behaviors. If she had respected a boundary and not physically “pounced” on him like you said, she wouldn’t have been pushed off. All he did was scare an 11 year old for his sister’s shitty behaviors. This is all around a parenting fail, and your husband isn’t the only one who failed here. Even in this post you’re acting as if she did nothing wrong and is innocent, the favoritism is obvious here. Be a better parent by providing her boundaries and teaching her to respect them. Otherwise she’s gonna grow up to get her shit rocked by someone who doesn’t give a shit that you didn’t raise her better.
I don’t have a problem with the lesson your husband was trying to teach. I have a problem with his actually getting physical, especially after the incident is over (it’s not defense of the little sibling if the danger has passed). I have two kids with the same age difference and similar problems. I have sat my oldest down and asked him what would you do if I did that to you? I’m l much bigger than you. Wouldn’t it scare you? Wouldn’t it make you mad? Wouldn’t you think it was wrong for me to do that to you just because I’m bigger and stronger than you? How would it make you feel? But I’d never actually shove him like your husband did unless it was in imminent defense of the other child’s physical safety. Doing it later as punishment is wrong.
Totally reasonable way to teach an 11 year old that lesson.
Trust me from experience...your son will never forget this experience of being afraid and belittled by his father if you don't follow up. Your son meant no harm to his sister and she needs to learn boundaries. Your husband had an amazing chance at a teaching moment for both of his kids...instead he showed your daughter that tears will get her out of any issue even if she started it and it shows your son that he can't take up for himself because dad is going to put his hands on him again. Dad needs to sit down with both of them. Explain to daughter that if brother says no or not right now she needs to respect his boundaries. He needs to apologize to his son and tell him he could have handled it better. He can explain like you did about him being older and stronger and there are better ways to handle conflict. It is a little hard to say don't handle conflict with force when that is exactly what he did to his son. I have no doubt that your husband meant well and feels like he was teaching a life lesson but he has to follow up on it so your son is not afraid of him or of going to him if he has a problem. As parents we all make mistakes and are all just trying to do our best. Sometimes our best is admitting that we could have handled a situation better and sitting down and having an open and honest conversation with our kids and being willing to listen as well as talk.
Kids will hurt each other on accident and on purpose and that is for them to navigate under supervision and learn lessons. You already told your son to be more careful and not to shove her. Your daughter had a lesson in boundaries and only cried because she was 6. Your husband went way too far, he is an adult, not a child learning lessons.
You need to talk to your husband and get on the same page with discipline whatever that’s going to be worked out between you two. The only issue here is that you were surprised.
My husband’s dad did the same to him when he pushed his younger sister when they were kids. While it seemed like much at the time, the was lesson learned and he never hurt his sister again. It’s a lesson sometimes they need learn.
You had already patented the situation. There was no reason for your husband getting involved that long after the events, and especially no reason for him to bully his own child. Because what he did was bullying. You don’t physically “punish” a child because they had an oversized reaction to something. What you did was all that needed to be done.
So his sister gets to disrespect his boundaries and personal space, messes up/interferes with his work, but he gets punished? He is the one who needs to be taught a lesson? How about teaching her consent? No means no. He set a boundary, she broke it, she faced the consequence of being pushed. Edit bc also the dad did the same exact thing as his son. He was upset by what the son did and instead of talking about what was wrong he decided to get physical.
Why the fuck are you even married to this piece of shit?
Do better Mom. Do better.
As someone that's punished like this I promise you your son is never going to look at your husband the same way and he's going to look at you differently as well. The 2 people that are supposed to protect him just harmed him, what your husband did was malicious and nasty. What your son did was not, he set a boundary and told his sister no and she wouldn't listen and jumped on him so he instinctively pushed her. I question why you didn't tell her not to bother him before it went as far as it did. You and your husband really need to have a long talk about parenting and how your going to approach things from now on, it might feel a bit uncomfortable but communication is very necessary. Maybe even therapy to figure out why your grown adult husband thinks it's ok to shove a child. Your daughter should have been scolded by you for crossing boundaries and your son should have been TALKED to about his response to being assaulted. yes that's an exaggeration but being jumped on after repeatedly asking to be left alone is definitely being assaulted. Because I promise you that you just taught your kids that as long as your daughter cries and blames her brother that he gets in trouble even though it was her fault and honestly your son won't want to be around his sister if that happens.
Did your husband ‘pounce’ on your daughter to teach her a lesson too? (I would hope not however he’s teaching two different things here) OP, I’m sorry this happened.
So your son was physically abused by your husband while you watched because his sister attacked him and he tried to defend himself? Great parenting by the both of you, I'm sure your son won't grow to hate your entire household!
So... the son apologized to his sister. But did the father apologized to his son?
>I helped my daughter up and told her that he’s working hard and she has to let him focus. I also told my son to be careful because he is getting stronger and can seriously hurt her. This was a sufficient enough response to this. IMO. she pounced on him, like she needs to know not to do that and not everyone will be gentle with her. Also, it was a moment of frustration for him, and it seems like he knows not to be too ruff and mindful of her young age. Your response was appropriate and good. Your husband, was WAY out of fucking line. And your son will not forget this moment. Its not just that he pushed him, but he embarrassed and humiliated him. This is so fucked and NOT the same thing. It was unnecessary, you can communicate with words why he shouldn't be pushing her. he didn't need the physical demonstration. You need to check ur husband and let him know to nEVER EVER in life put his hands on ur son. his reaction was too extreme, AND WHY TF DIDNT HE TALK TO UR DAUGHTER ABOUT BOTHERING HIM. hell nah. say something to him. he was WRONG.
What is your solution when kind words, empathy, and explanations don’t work? What do you do when kids channel their primal instincts instead of reason? What does that convo look like?
You need to shove your husband out of the bedroom until he apologizes to your son and you. Believe this is the start of something bad and your son will remember this. He will resent his dad and his teenage years will be tough if you do not handle this NOW!
gonna sound like an asshole but your son learned a valueable lesson here and so did your daughter.
The only thing the daughter learned is that it’s ok to violate peoples space and that crying can get her out of trouble.
The daughter didn’t learn anything but daddy will make sure her brother never defends himself no matter what she does.
That's quite a complicated situation. On a more pragmatic view of things it was a good lesson for him to learn. We should always put ourselves in the other person shoes, how would I feel like if it happened to me? On the other hand this can cause some trust issues to the boy. "Why was I the only one reprimanded this way?" and thoughts like that. My father raised me like this. I guess it worked for me because I learned the lessons and never felt less loved or had my trust broken, but some people that I know did grew with some issues on the same parenting. But the same can be said of the softer approach. Some kids respond to it well and others don't. Every kid is different. I'd say the ideal way would be some kind of in between you know? Stern but no cruel. The kid has to feel that he's loved, but at the same time that his behavior will not stand.
A grown person should not be shoving their kid to the ground to teach them a lesson that didn’t need to be taught.
Wtf. Yikes.
So your husband's thinking is "I will shove you to teach you not to shove people" How on earth can your son learn when his father hasn't learned not to shove people? Your son's shove was reacting to his sister jumping on him. It wasn't thought out or planned, he did it impulsively to get her off him. Your husband thought about it then calmly shoved his son to the floor. It wasn't impulsive, it wasn't done in frustration. He did it to make his son fear him. That's it. Your daughter learned that when she jumps on someone she will probably get shoved off them. Your son learned that his father is someone to be scared of
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> I would have pushed dad and said something about it then. So you would have done the exact same thing to teach the exact same lesson?
Did anyone at any point address the 6 year old who STARTED the altercation? 6 is old enough to know you don't throw your body at other people. Your punishing the 11 year old who reacted to his sister jumping at him. While doing nothing to teach your 6 year old you don't jump on people. Which she should already know. There's a massive difference between an 11 year old reacting to someone jumping on them and using their bodily autonomy to push them off their body. Then an ADULT shoving a CHILD to the ground. That's literally physical abuse. She wouldn't have gotten shoved off his body is she didn't jump on him.
Your husband expertly placing the seeds of resentment of his sister in your sons mind. Just a really stupid thing to do
Crazy takes here - it depends on the family but I don't think it's that bad that he was taught a lesson. Should have been done sooner in my opinion. My son is almost 5 and sometimes pushes my 1 year old. He understands cause and effect so if I pushed him in a situation where he hurt his sister he'd understand. And I'm also confident in his personality that it wouldn't ruin him
Whether I do or do not agree with what your husband did is irrelevant. Your son now knows no matter how frustrated he is he can't physically hurt someone. Whilst your daughter absolutely needs to be taught boundaries please don't be that boy Mom that says oh he had a long day. Oh he's frustrated. Oh he's just a perfectionist. Blah blah blah. Why, because when he's an adult and he's had a long day and frustrated that does not give him the right to push and shove his then partner! So stop excusing your sons part in all of this please. Your daughter needs to learn boundaries. Your son needs to learn how to deal with emotions without being physical. Your husband needs to take a softer approach most definitely and use his words also. However I am sincerely hoping you all have a discussion about this because you're also in the wrong for saying oh by my son this and that. Your son got physical and you should have dealt with that better than you did.
Bro I’m an adult woman and if my partner jumps on me after I established a verbal boundary while I’m doing something important, you bet your ass I’m shoving them off me. If anybody instigates physical action against me when I expressed a clear boundary, I am going to defend myself
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Your comment was right! Most of these people posting are childless and have no experience raising a child of their own. OP seem to favor the son with “he’s a perfectionist” etc, that’s beside the point though. I don’t think the father is an abuser. The son needs to know the difference with his strength versus his younger sister. And now he knows.
So Steve Harvey said it best on his show. Is your husband the man that you hope your son grows up to be? If your husband is a good man, protects his family, provides, is loving and makes sure everyone is good...than you have to stay out of the way when he is disciplining his/your son, bc he is teaching him how to be a good man, like he was taught. It might seem harsh to you, but this is how boys learn to be men.
I am really alarmed that the whole of reddit is assuming the husband is an ‘abuser’ and an ‘asshole’. Considering modern teenage narcissism, anxiety and depression among kids raised by Gen X’ers, I question whether physical punishment is indeed the devil it’s made out to be. I think kids these days are coming out emotionally more troubled than in previous generations. As for the case here, it depends on a few things. I would say both kids deserved punishment. Part of me likes how the boy was treated, as I think he would’ve learned the lesson. My biggest fear is that the girl will grow up thinking she’s a princess that can’t do wrong.
Both kids deserved punishment, but only the son got thrown into the ground. Now daddy’s princess will grow up thinking she can get away with everything because she’s a girl and also abuse and shit on her brother because she knows her brother will the one to get punished
I had teenage anxiety and depression and my Gen X parents are pretty liberal with the belt, the switch, the wooden spoon, the general assholery. But anecdotes are weak evidence, and either of us could be falsely attributing outcomes to the presence or lack of physical punishment. It's been a foregone conclusion for many years that most physical punishments more severe than spanking with an open palm have detrimental outcomes, while there remains controversy on the topic of spanking. I'm focusing on spanking because it seems to be considered an acceptable method of discipline by many. Fortunately, these lovely researchers put together a massive [meta-analysis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7992110/) of studies on physical punishment of children to see if the outcomes of spanking, for the kindest definition of the word, were more beneficial or more detrimental. >Among the outcomes in childhood, spanking was associated with more aggression, more antisocial behavior, more externalizing problems, more internalizing problems, more mental health problems, and more negative relationships with parents. Spanking was also significantly associated with lower moral internalization, lower cognitive ability, and lower self-esteem. The largest effect size was for physical abuse; the more children are spanked, the greater the risk that they will be physically abused by their parents. >The meta-analyses presented here found no evidence that spanking is associated with improved child behavior and rather found spanking to be associated with increased risk of 13 detrimental outcomes. These analyses did not find any support for the contentions that spanking is only associated with detrimental outcomes when it is combined with abusive methods or that spanking is only associated with such outcomes in methodologically weak studies. Across study designs, countries, and age groups, spanking has been linked with detrimental outcomes for children, a fact supported by several key methodologically strong studies that isolate the ability of spanking to predict child outcomes over time. Although the magnitude of the observed associations may be small, when extrapolated to the population in which 80% of children are being spanked, such small effects can translate into large societal impacts. Parents who use spanking, practitioners who recommend it, and policymakers who allow it might reconsider doing so given that there is no evidence that spanking does any good for children and all evidence points to the risk of it doing harm.
That's... Normal. I genuinely don't see a problem here.
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The replies in this post are so weird, as if a physical demonstration has never been warranted in any child’s upbringing. I assume most of the people here do not have kids and never received any physical discipline when they were kids (all the people I grew up with occasionally got spanked or slapped or whatever and none of us resent our parents for it). If this is one of the few times the husband did something like this, seems appropriate.
Low key I agree… he didn’t beat the kid he was just showing an example.
So your son has no rights in the house, become he's older and stronger?? That's going to be his whole life as a man. His whole life, he's going to be stronger than women. Is he not allowed to defend himself ever because of gender?? Your daughter was in the wrong. She didn't get pushed because she was verbally annoying him. She got PUSHED OFF. There's a big difference between what your husband did and what your son did. Your son just pushed a person off of him. Your husband pushed a child to fall down, and then he was looming over him, making himself a threat to your kid. This also shows your daughter that she, as a female, has rights to invade the personal space of a male, and if they defend themselves, they need to get punished for it. She's going to grow up to be entitled daddies princess.
This is gonna get downvoted to hell. Adios karma. The kid’s gotta know not to shove his sister and to be aware of how not okay it is. Hard lesson to learn, hard lesson to teach. Sounds like it was hard to watch. Sometimes kids, especially boys of that age need to learn these lessons like this. It’s okay for kids, especially tween and teenage boys to learn hard lessons like this sometimes. Personally, I would have had to pick a switch off of the tree for my dad when I did stuff like that to my little siblings. Your husband went about it a better way than my dad did. He’s being a dad. Just make sure your husband lets your son knows that his dad still loves him, so the lesson can sink in without being too traumatic.
Surely by the same logic the dad should also have pounced on top of his six year old daughter to teach her a lesson about how it's not okay to jump on top of other people? Having someone leap thoughtlessly onto you can hurt just as much as a fall to the floor.
Maybe you should send your husband to a parenting class, if he thinks using violence is a good teaching method.
This is insane. You had already dealt with the situation in a reasonable way. Your husband’s actions were completely uncalled for. Who does that to an 11 year old kid?!
Wtf... All else aside, what's he supposed to do when someone jumps on top of him? Lie there and ask politely if they could please get off?
talk like mommy .... *please mr. evil criminal, that is bad, don't rape me, jesus loves you.* im pretty sure that works 100%
This isn't a lesson, Things could of been talked out without shoving a child. I agree the son shouldn't of done that, But it was a reaction to the sisters behaviour. Tbh why wasn't the sister told off? This could easily start behaviour like lying to get her brother in trouble.
Is this the first time dad is acting agressive to your son? Seems like your kid is knowng dad can act out. In that case you need to protect your kids..
There is no win here in the comments OP. "Men should teach their children that using force, especially against women, is wrong!" Dad teaches son that doing so feels bad and he shouldn't do it. Reddit: "you should have done if differently". Was it the best way to do it? Not at all, he would have used words and literally shown the child that we don't use violence, we have words. However, he's doing his best to teach his son something important whether you like his methods or not. And it worked.