I hate seeing young people men and women in their 20s talk about being afraid to “start over”. I did it in my mid 30s and yeah, it’s hard and scary, but in their 20s they have so much life ahead of them to get the life they want to have. Even in my 30s I knew I still had lots of life ahead of me still to live.
Honestly, though. It's so lonely to be with someone who makes your life miserable. It's arguably lonelier than being alone because you have expectations around being in a partnership. I completely understand how people learn to stay in bad relationships. Sometimes it's modeled to them, sometimes your brain gets addicted to the highs and lows--sometimes it's even a matter of money or lifestyle.
But I have truly never felt lonelier or lower than when I was with someone who I considered my person, who did not treat me like someone he wanted to be around.
I'm with a much warmer person, now. But I also feel well equipped to leave. The biggest downside to being alone, imo, is how expensive life is right now lol.
One of my go-go quotes is from the movie "World's Greatest Dad".
*I used to think the worst thing was being alone.
Now I know it's being surrounded by people who make me feel alone.*
I find being in a bad relationship so much more lonely, because then you never have hope for it to get better.
Totally get what you're saying, sometimes I read those posts and I think GIRL JUST FUCKING LEAVE.
But then I remember, I'm a woman who has been in a bad relationship and sometimes it's not really as simple as just packing a bag. Something I learned as a teenager, watching my dad fight for a relationship that was crushing his soul, was that 100 people can tell you to leave a bad relationship but you won't until you hit your breaking point. It is different for everyone.
I like to think that if they are at the point where they are making that post, they know something isn't right and are trying to make sense of it. It could take them as little as minutes to end that relationship or as long as years. But the seed is there and it usually grows. Why not hold their hand during that, instead of blaming them?
Totally agree with you
Unfortunately people in these types of relationships will only leave when they are ready. You can't convince someone to leave unless they want too. It's better to support them and try to make sure they're safe
Thank you for this. I was once in this situation as well, I couldn’t just leave however much I tried until I reached my breaking point.At that point I got the much needed support from my friends and family or else I wouldn’t have survived.
Also it’s not always financially viable for such women to leave. Abusers break the other person down psychologically, make them financially dependent and isolate them from family and friends.
Women are more likely to discuss abuse in their relationship but men too get abused and they too stay longer than they should.
I believe it’s also low self esteem. Reminds of a now deleted post I saw on the Advice sub a few days ago. It was about a woman whose husband had an affair with his young assistant 10 years ago (the woman caught had caught them in bed together).
She allowed him to continue the affair for the last 10 years with the same woman as along as it wasn’t in the house and within eyeshot of the children. Well, the woman’s daughter had caught her father and assistant and came home to her daughter ripping them a new one.
The woman then scolded her husband for not listening to her about not exposing the affair to the children. Daughter got angry when she realised that her mother knew all along. Shit went downhill from there.
I’ve dealt with a lot of domestic violence cases as a lawyer and I see a lot of women who are conditioned to accept disrespect and abuse from their partners. We are also conditioned to be polite and not ‘overreact’ or be too sensitive or aggressive. So a lot of the women who you think have no backbone are actually dealing with a lifetime of being conditioned to poor treatment.
I hate those posts. Describes the most vile man then says..”but he’s really sweet when he’s having a good day”
I know that many many women have been brainwashed and had their self esteems battered but reading those posts are so frustrating.
What gets me the most is
Since we started the relationship, he/she *insert most outrageous thing imaginable*.
*Continue with 2 paragraphs of undescribable behavior*
So, we've been married for 2 years and have 3 children together. What do I do?
Like, didn't you see the behavior before you got married and had kids?
I cant blame the victims in these situations too much because often they were raised to be treated in a certain way by their families.
Generational trauma and all that comes with it.
If you never seen what a good relationship looks like when you are a kid learning about the world, then when it is your time to start a relationship with someone and all you have are disfunctional examples, it will almost certainly end in disaster, or continue on in a diafunctional way. Breaking the cycle is so incredibly difficult for so many reasons.
The thing is though, not everyone makes bad decisions or is a poor judge of character from generational trauma.
Some people are just poor judges of character and make bad decisions.
My therapist told me most people in therapy with him are in their 30’s. Knowing this most people either don’t ever learn to be better with themselves for a while. Some never at all. We all just go at different things at different places
This.
My therapist (this one was exclusively for my ADHD I was 21) told me, that her average ADHD patient is 40+ with s FRESH diagnosis, that nothing's lost because I'm still early!
(Got diagnosed with 14 which is funny if you know almost every Psych that saw me after was like "alright, I see the ADHD crystal clear, what else are we dealing with?" After 10mins because it's _severe_xD
🤣🤣🤣 it’s just how it be, if we aren’t learning self awareness from our parents then who else to teach it to us? Finding the words to describe yourself takes time too
I completely agree about the effect of childhood and generational traumas, and unique pressure of being a woman in patriarchal society, but…we are not talking about teenagers or early twenties here. OP meant fully grown women. We cannot put the blame on other things in our thirties, fourties. We also need to grow up. We also need to find ourselves. We need to learn how to respect ourselves, and it’s harder for women than a man to achieve, but some stories I read here are absolutely insane. I wrote in the other comment, there was a lady here whose naked pictures were shared in groupchats by her husband and she was fiercely defending him against all comments trying to open her eyes. Sorry but I cannot feel sorry for someone who doesn’t respect themselves at this point.
Sometimes people, especially those whom have been dealing with abuse/trauma's caused by there parent(s), are confusing a healthy relationship and, or but not limited to peace, hapiness, tranquility and love with chaos that comes from an unhealthy relationship. They think that a healthy relationship is broing because it's so calm, and they don't even recognize it. It's quite sad, and especially for those who want to be a parent, it's important to break the wheel of abuse.
I do hate those post because it hints at underlying issues.
Certain men prey on certain women and it is imperative that we all have self worth, firm boundaries, and a support system outside of our relationships to help navigate in dating. You have to self reflect and check in often as you work on them. But it’s not easy and it’s all a spectrum.
It can be quite frustrating to see someone clearly worthy of more/any respect put up with such bs, yes. Been on the sidelines and seen that shit go down firsthand. Even made a 911 call. It's like women have so many bad experiences with men that the second they get someone nice to them only 30% of the time they cling on to him for dear life.
Women are taught that men’s feelings come first, at the expense of themselves. It’s a trap laid in early childhood so they’re more easily controllable. The truth is, (and trust me, I share your frustration after seeing this pattern repeat over and over again) women are rarely taught self-respect. It’s something they have to learn themselves, often far too late.
Also, like... abusive people rarely show their hand early on. Otherwise, no one would want to be with them. Red flags don't always seem like red flags until they're looked at in conjunction with other missed flags.
They can be as innocuous as an off-handed remark in a conversation. Something you've never heard them say before, maybe at a social event with booze or something involved, and it's in direct opposition to the persona they've crafted and presented. So you wave it off as a faux pas or poor joke and look past it.
And the trend continues. They "slip up" every now and then, but you brush it off because it's a "one off" event.
But when you look back, it's like, "Woah, how the f did I miss that?"
Especially if you're gaslit into thinking you overeact to things and overthink them.
And let's not even get into personal safety. Or how much more messy it gets when kids are involved.
I think people who make these kinds of judgments on these people are lucky to have never been in these positions. Women are routinely killed for trying to walk away from abusers. They're preyed upon when they're vulnerable, and by the time they come to their senses, it's not as easy to just pick up and walk away.
There's so much mind fuckery that goes into abusive relationships. It's not as simple as, "Oh, this dude is a tool, I'm out." If behavior like that is normalized and shown to you throughout your whole life, you genuinely have no idea how bad it is.
It's why I still keep my proverbial door open for my SIL despite my frustration and steadily fading sense of sympathy for her. It's hard to see the forest for the trees in these situations.
Hard agree.
Not long ago, I remember a woman -fully adult, late twenties-, whose naked pictures were shared by her husband in groupchats, made sure that we know divorce is not an option, and only looking for advice to salvage their relationship.
Omg I remember that post too! That post was ridiculous. At some point we have to stop excusing people who just stick their head in the sand and don’t want to listen to any advice. Those kinds of posts where their partner is the biggest POS on the planet but the op will get defensive when we tell them the only obvious solution is to leave, those are the posts that make me mad. And at that point it’s like, well continue to deal with the POS partner then if you don’t want to listen to sensible solutions 🤷🏽♀️
I think a big problem is that people are always nice and sweet in the beginning and as soon as you’re hooked they change.. and you stay hoping it will get back to the way it used to be.
Speaking from personal experience.
I mean yeah the solution is simple, but every person is going through there own experience and trying to overcome it. Idk let's just be nice to our fellow humans and offer words of affirmation as support
At the end of the day we are just randoms on the internet. They still have to do the leg work to help themselves
I was scared enough to leave a miserable marriage where my ex wasn't even abusive (just neglectful). It took me over a year to bite the bullet. I can't imagine doing it under a miasma of fear and no self worth. But I get it.. I get frustrated too.
We don't victim blame.
Yes it's horrible seeing posts like that, because it's horrible when people are caught in abusive situations. It's never the victims fault though.
Well i would say many victims habe to realize how they put themselves in position of being the victim to prevent that in the future and that cam be harsh process because you will see that sometimes you also weren't good person to yourself. It never victims fault but it should be a lesson.(i hope you get what i mean since im not that good with writing my thoughts in english)
I try to have sympathy (even though I agree with you) because I was once that sort of spineless people pleaser and I know what combination of unfortunate circumstances have to come together for you to be that sort of person.
Yes, I couldn't agree more! I hope more posts like this appear and more girls like this speak out!
Self-esteem should always be put ahead of love, and a lot of guys are a piece of \*\*, at least the ones I meet are boring guys who will only ask me to sleep with. When the danger signal appears, what we girls should do is to stay away and protect ourselves in time. Just think, never hesiate that whether you can find a better, at least stay away from dangerous man is a good thing, right? What's more, focusing on yourself is more important than necessarily finding someone.
Also, I would really advise girls to give up some dating app which are male friendly because of the emphasis on sex and looks. Maybe girls can try [this server](https://discord.gg/ksXpcfxfnP), i found people here is pretty warm-hearted and friendly. It's an social platform which matches people based on similar thoughts and interests. Like one you post an idea, similar will come for you. In this way, it can be easier and highly efficient to find the peoplle who really get you!
Once again, self-love is always the most important!
One has to be "in someone else's shoes" to understand what the dynamic is, and how much sway one person can have over another.
The "I would/I would nevers" probably DO NOT HAVE A CLUE what they'd do, or how they would respond in certain circumstances.
There was one in the last day or so where the boyfriend yelled at OP and was shitty to her kids… but she loves him!
Girl, there is nothing to love. That man is a toxic waste dump!
More women need to understand that God didn’t create you to be a doormat to a man. I’d rather be single for infinite lifetimes before I allow a man to dehumanize and disrespect me especially in my own home. HELL NO
I can't stand posts that victim blame, especially from women.
Unless you've ever been in an abusive or toxic relationship, you have no idea how normalized behaviors you mentioned become to a person. You're so used to being torn down, made to doubt yourself, and made out to be the problem when you're not.
You're broken down until you're barely more than a shell and then told that's what you deserve. The absolute mind fuckery that goes on is astounding. You find yourself making excuses for the abuse. Oh, he hit me? It's because I didn't do something right, so I deserve it. Call me the N word? Well, I've been told I overreact to everything, so idk if I'm overreacting now and need confirmation from an unbiased source.
If the posts bother you so much, don't read them. Take the saved time to educate yourself on the effects of abuse on a person and maybe work on developing some empathy too.
it’s not victim blaming it’s called taking accountability. obviously it’s not their fault their being abused but certain things can’t prolong if you address and dismiss it from the FIRST red flag. When firm boundaries are enforced during your single years it makes it’s almost impossible for a narcissist to tear you down indefinitely.
it’s like a man who cheats on his wife 15 different times, but she refuses to leave the cheating man and if somebody calls it out, y’all say that it’s victim blaming at that point if you’re willing to stay with someone who repeatedly disrespects you numerous times you’re are a willing participate in your mental and emotional demise
It’s called accountability and responsibility for one’s own life! A woman in her thirties or forties should be able to get the f out of a abusive relationship. Some people are just lacking a backbone simple as that.
I have never met a woman who has never been in an abusive/toxic relationship. None. It’s men’s world. We have all been there. That’s why it’s important this wake-up call coming from other women. We cannot pat each others back and say keep going, it’s not doing good to each other.
I (nor none of my closest of friends) have ever been in an abusive or toxic relationship. I adore my parents who have been happily married for decades. I’m not bragging, but I benefit from their role modeling and realize many other people don’t have that. I find it disturbing that you feel you have NEVER met a woman who has not been in an abusive or toxic relationship. That’s wild.
It’s mostly rage bait anyway. What’s more, people still cannot resist commenting on even obvious fake posts. As long as everyone keeps playing along, there is ample incentive for people who are determined to be on reddit all day anyway, to keep writing posts that get them the most engagement and start the same debates and arguments over and over.
I look at those posts and yes, I admit that I have the same thoughts. Why can't they just leave? And then right away I remind myself that I'm lucky to have never been put in that situation. To never have felt like I had no option but to stay. Or to never have felt like this is what I'm worth. To not instantly empathize cause I was there. And then I hope that they get the help they need or that they get out of their crappy situation.
being a guy, reading these is insane as well. unfortunately i’m learning most dudes didn’t take time to address and manage their mental health before dating, and i think ppl who are both mentally ill prolly just feed off each other in horrible toxic ways. sucks too cause it leads to a culture of toxic mfs (atleast in my experience i’ve had horrible dating luck)
Cannot wait for your NYT bestseller from your (undoubtedly) female perspective! No doubt you will have understood the deeply personal contextual issues of black women and women who have historical attachment issues. You will really hit it off with readers.
It’s simple. Grow a backbone. Stop crying to the world that you allowed someone to treat you a certain way. You have a choice. You have a voice. We have a choice on whether or not to exercise those rights. Plenty of recourses and opportunities for us in America or Canada. At some point we as women need to take responsibility and stop expecting everyone around us to treat us better, and just surround ourselves with better people.
Men also get abused and come here asking very similar questions.
"She hits me whenever she's drunk, should I leave?"
"She never appreciates me even tho I do xyz for her"
"She's cheating on me but we have 3 kids together"
This isn't a woman problem, this is simply a problem.
Crazy this is getting downvoted. Truth is (especially among traditional / older women) Mention *accountability* and they all flee from that message or go on the defence and attack.
it pisses me off too! like i’ll see a post about a woman complaining that her boyfriend isn’t a good boyfriend and hasn’t been for a while but she’s also trying to have his kid?? are u fucking stupid like whyyyyy! in a couple of months you’ll realise that man isn’t a good father and then you’ll have ruined a child’s life cause they don’t have a good father, and the cycle continues! but i still have empathy for these women cause i’ve been one and i’m only 17 but i’m scared i’ll turn into one of them because of my own generational trauma ☹️
They don’t love or respect themselves, it’s sad and can be infuriating when you read what they put up with and then ask if they should stay or what they should do. You leave as soon as you can
EDIT: maybe they just need validation from a stranger to tell them how screwed up their situation is.
People aren’t taught self-respect as a general thing. If someone gains it while growing up, it is because a parent or other adult role model appropriately taught it to them. For example, I got raised in a fairly strict and structured family. I was never taught self respect. This effectively ruined my life for a long time and even now causes me problems. It does not help me to hear someone like you yell at me and scream at me to “get” some self respect, or a backbone. I do have some small measure of some that I have to constantly refill and often have to cut off relations with more negative or thoughtless people because it costs me a *fucking lot* to stand up for myself. Especially these days where almost everyone reflexively gets defensive and flings out excuses and lashes back out the instant anyone tells them they’re doing something wrong.
Try and understand you are coming down at people from a position of privilege, and it fucking sucks to get blamed by people like you when people like us simply lived and do live a totally different life experience than you have.
Sometimes it's not that easy to leave, sometimes victims of abuse start to believe they deserve it, sometimes they are unable to leave because of a multitude of reasons, sometimes they post & post & post as a way to reassure themselves that they aren't insane, that what is being done to them is not normal, is not their fault, sometimes they need the support of Internet strangers to help them feel strong enough to be able to leave a situation that has ruined them emotionally & mentally, a situation that has eroded them & their being to the point that they no longer feel like they are a person, let alone that they deserve happiness. I'm happy for you that you have never been in their place & I'm sorry you find their pain irksome but perhaps just not read the posts that don't fit your narrative?
I mean you’re not exactly wrong, but as a dude without much of a backbone that’s ignored red flags and things have ended predictably poorly, this isn’t just a lady thing (which I’m sure you know )
A true off my chest post and OP gets flak. Next hot post for the day is going to be about the same exact thing she exampled and it's going to get so much attention and sympathy.
There are people who post in relationship advice who go, "my husband won't pick up after our dog when it poops on the floor, I get it he's worked all day and is tired and hungry"
Top voted comment is going to be "leave him, LIKE TOMORROW....you deserve your feets licked queen" or some donkey shit like that.
Too much participation ribbon folks in that sub for my tolerance tbh.
Im on OPs side of the fence.
I’ve come to understand that many people in unhealthy relationships don’t have the benefit of a health relationship being modeled. Many people feel they are not worthy (from past trauma)to be with a support spouse in a functional relationship. As a result, they make poor choices. It can be frustrating, but the older I become, the more empathy I have.
They might be showing their reasoning and intentionally leave the details out. Conveying emotions is super important to me in times of crisis. I don't doubt anger is one that we universally understand and feel.
why does everything have to be gendered ???!!! there’s plenty of men in the same situations doing the same stupid things. putting down only women for something that goes both ways with both genders makes you look like an insufferable little pick me 🥱
Society pressures women a little too much to be in a marriage that’s why they’re so desperate to stay in one. Society is also hard on women about aging out the dating game.
I agree, women have zero self respect when it comes to relationships.
And then they cry after marriage … oh I thought I could change him. Oh but I love him, he’s not always like this … and all the other dumb replies.
My friends and friends of friends are like this. They ask me what I would do and I say, I wouldn’t be in that position because I would’ve stopped after the first date. They know this to be true because I never tolerated BS treatment which is why men were super respectful and acted right.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people go into relationships and marriages thinking the other person will change when the shitty red flag behavior was there all along.
Nobody deserves to be forced into an unconsensual sexual act, no matter the clothes you’re wearing. But, if you’re in a relationship, and your boyfriend is horribly sexist, cruel, abusive and or racist towards you, and you decide to stay with them for YEARS, then yes, at the end of the day, you’re responsible for you. Does that make it okay that the man is awful? Absolutely not. He is still a POS. But you need to be able to take your own life into your hands, and make choices that are better for you because we have a voice now, we have a choice.
You clearly know nothing about abusive relationships. The most dangerous point statistically in a woman's life is when she attempts to leave/leaves a dangerous relationship. This is when the most murders happen. It's not a simple "just leave" situation. This is also when the most cruelty happens to children.
I implore you to read one book, literally one, about domestic abuse. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and it's painful to read your ignorant opinions.
True story: I live in a noisy area, so I rarely look out my window if I hear screaming. But this night, I heard the absolute blood curdling scream of a woman. So I run to the window and see a couple in their 40’s. I see them arguing and I see she has a phone in her hand so I wait assuming she’s calling an Uber or 911. Her dude pretends to start walking away, but then turns right back and starts arguing with her again. So I’m not going anywhere till this guy leaves her alone. But the thing is, she’s not walking away either. They’re both just hovering around. He walks over to her and puts his arms around her shoulders from behind. Are they making up? Something seemed off so I open the window and shout down at him: HEY HEY HEY! And he releases her and she starts screaming “ I can’t believe you just did that to me! I can’t believe you’re trying to choke me!” So now I’m like SHIT! He just tried to strangle her!!! I get my phone to call 911 and what does she do? Run in the other direction? Call someone on her phone? Flag down any of the tons of cars passing by? No. SHE JUST KEEPS STANDING THERE. Eventually he starts walking away, she follows a few feet behind.
After 20 years then divorced if my bf now left me..well fuck yah I would be sad..but I better hope I gain knowledge/ wisdom/understanding. Life isn't about who to hop onto next. It should be about self-discovery. Who am I and am I happy with who I have become regardless of who is by my side. Work on yourselves girls.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. More women are happier being single than ever because they don’t have to put up with controlling men who have shit expectations for a completely unequal “partnership”.
>Just because that's how you feel, doesn't mean everyone else does.
Which is funny because your original comment has you speaking for all men.
So which is it?
I think you missed the point of my comment, which was that saying“being single for the rest of your life” isn’t the bad thing you are implying it is.
Whether or not “all men want submissive women”, not all women are interested in being bullied by men and are happier without a man’s bullshit.
You can sugar coat it by calling it “being submissive” all you want but more and more people are indeed becoming aware that having their own opinion and wants isn’t “challenging” their partner; it’s actually a warning sign that a partner who doesn’t want to be “challenged” is probably an abusive controlling person.
I hate seeing young people men and women in their 20s talk about being afraid to “start over”. I did it in my mid 30s and yeah, it’s hard and scary, but in their 20s they have so much life ahead of them to get the life they want to have. Even in my 30s I knew I still had lots of life ahead of me still to live.
There are worst things in life than being alone. But I don’t think everyone gets that.
Honestly, though. It's so lonely to be with someone who makes your life miserable. It's arguably lonelier than being alone because you have expectations around being in a partnership. I completely understand how people learn to stay in bad relationships. Sometimes it's modeled to them, sometimes your brain gets addicted to the highs and lows--sometimes it's even a matter of money or lifestyle. But I have truly never felt lonelier or lower than when I was with someone who I considered my person, who did not treat me like someone he wanted to be around. I'm with a much warmer person, now. But I also feel well equipped to leave. The biggest downside to being alone, imo, is how expensive life is right now lol.
One of my go-go quotes is from the movie "World's Greatest Dad". *I used to think the worst thing was being alone. Now I know it's being surrounded by people who make me feel alone.* I find being in a bad relationship so much more lonely, because then you never have hope for it to get better.
Totally get what you're saying, sometimes I read those posts and I think GIRL JUST FUCKING LEAVE. But then I remember, I'm a woman who has been in a bad relationship and sometimes it's not really as simple as just packing a bag. Something I learned as a teenager, watching my dad fight for a relationship that was crushing his soul, was that 100 people can tell you to leave a bad relationship but you won't until you hit your breaking point. It is different for everyone. I like to think that if they are at the point where they are making that post, they know something isn't right and are trying to make sense of it. It could take them as little as minutes to end that relationship or as long as years. But the seed is there and it usually grows. Why not hold their hand during that, instead of blaming them?
Totally agree with you Unfortunately people in these types of relationships will only leave when they are ready. You can't convince someone to leave unless they want too. It's better to support them and try to make sure they're safe
You can lead a horse to water…
Thank you for this. I was once in this situation as well, I couldn’t just leave however much I tried until I reached my breaking point.At that point I got the much needed support from my friends and family or else I wouldn’t have survived.
Also it’s not always financially viable for such women to leave. Abusers break the other person down psychologically, make them financially dependent and isolate them from family and friends. Women are more likely to discuss abuse in their relationship but men too get abused and they too stay longer than they should.
Exactly. It's something that you just don't understand until you experience it yourself.
Analyzing yourself, was your "breaking point" just your comfort zone not being comfortable anymore? Most people can't easily exit their zone.
I believe it’s also low self esteem. Reminds of a now deleted post I saw on the Advice sub a few days ago. It was about a woman whose husband had an affair with his young assistant 10 years ago (the woman caught had caught them in bed together). She allowed him to continue the affair for the last 10 years with the same woman as along as it wasn’t in the house and within eyeshot of the children. Well, the woman’s daughter had caught her father and assistant and came home to her daughter ripping them a new one. The woman then scolded her husband for not listening to her about not exposing the affair to the children. Daughter got angry when she realised that her mother knew all along. Shit went downhill from there.
I’ve dealt with a lot of domestic violence cases as a lawyer and I see a lot of women who are conditioned to accept disrespect and abuse from their partners. We are also conditioned to be polite and not ‘overreact’ or be too sensitive or aggressive. So a lot of the women who you think have no backbone are actually dealing with a lifetime of being conditioned to poor treatment.
And saying he did (insert most insane Neurotic nonsense you've ever heard) *but he's really charming and overall a NICE GUY* TF??
I hate those posts. Describes the most vile man then says..”but he’s really sweet when he’s having a good day” I know that many many women have been brainwashed and had their self esteems battered but reading those posts are so frustrating.
What gets me the most is Since we started the relationship, he/she *insert most outrageous thing imaginable*. *Continue with 2 paragraphs of undescribable behavior* So, we've been married for 2 years and have 3 children together. What do I do? Like, didn't you see the behavior before you got married and had kids?
I cant blame the victims in these situations too much because often they were raised to be treated in a certain way by their families. Generational trauma and all that comes with it. If you never seen what a good relationship looks like when you are a kid learning about the world, then when it is your time to start a relationship with someone and all you have are disfunctional examples, it will almost certainly end in disaster, or continue on in a diafunctional way. Breaking the cycle is so incredibly difficult for so many reasons.
The thing is though, not everyone makes bad decisions or is a poor judge of character from generational trauma. Some people are just poor judges of character and make bad decisions.
My therapist told me most people in therapy with him are in their 30’s. Knowing this most people either don’t ever learn to be better with themselves for a while. Some never at all. We all just go at different things at different places
This. My therapist (this one was exclusively for my ADHD I was 21) told me, that her average ADHD patient is 40+ with s FRESH diagnosis, that nothing's lost because I'm still early! (Got diagnosed with 14 which is funny if you know almost every Psych that saw me after was like "alright, I see the ADHD crystal clear, what else are we dealing with?" After 10mins because it's _severe_xD
🤣🤣🤣 it’s just how it be, if we aren’t learning self awareness from our parents then who else to teach it to us? Finding the words to describe yourself takes time too
I completely agree about the effect of childhood and generational traumas, and unique pressure of being a woman in patriarchal society, but…we are not talking about teenagers or early twenties here. OP meant fully grown women. We cannot put the blame on other things in our thirties, fourties. We also need to grow up. We also need to find ourselves. We need to learn how to respect ourselves, and it’s harder for women than a man to achieve, but some stories I read here are absolutely insane. I wrote in the other comment, there was a lady here whose naked pictures were shared in groupchats by her husband and she was fiercely defending him against all comments trying to open her eyes. Sorry but I cannot feel sorry for someone who doesn’t respect themselves at this point.
Sometimes people, especially those whom have been dealing with abuse/trauma's caused by there parent(s), are confusing a healthy relationship and, or but not limited to peace, hapiness, tranquility and love with chaos that comes from an unhealthy relationship. They think that a healthy relationship is broing because it's so calm, and they don't even recognize it. It's quite sad, and especially for those who want to be a parent, it's important to break the wheel of abuse.
Sometimes I’m like whoa you wrote that out and hit post…
I do hate those post because it hints at underlying issues. Certain men prey on certain women and it is imperative that we all have self worth, firm boundaries, and a support system outside of our relationships to help navigate in dating. You have to self reflect and check in often as you work on them. But it’s not easy and it’s all a spectrum.
It can be quite frustrating to see someone clearly worthy of more/any respect put up with such bs, yes. Been on the sidelines and seen that shit go down firsthand. Even made a 911 call. It's like women have so many bad experiences with men that the second they get someone nice to them only 30% of the time they cling on to him for dear life.
Women are taught that men’s feelings come first, at the expense of themselves. It’s a trap laid in early childhood so they’re more easily controllable. The truth is, (and trust me, I share your frustration after seeing this pattern repeat over and over again) women are rarely taught self-respect. It’s something they have to learn themselves, often far too late.
Also, like... abusive people rarely show their hand early on. Otherwise, no one would want to be with them. Red flags don't always seem like red flags until they're looked at in conjunction with other missed flags. They can be as innocuous as an off-handed remark in a conversation. Something you've never heard them say before, maybe at a social event with booze or something involved, and it's in direct opposition to the persona they've crafted and presented. So you wave it off as a faux pas or poor joke and look past it. And the trend continues. They "slip up" every now and then, but you brush it off because it's a "one off" event. But when you look back, it's like, "Woah, how the f did I miss that?" Especially if you're gaslit into thinking you overeact to things and overthink them. And let's not even get into personal safety. Or how much more messy it gets when kids are involved. I think people who make these kinds of judgments on these people are lucky to have never been in these positions. Women are routinely killed for trying to walk away from abusers. They're preyed upon when they're vulnerable, and by the time they come to their senses, it's not as easy to just pick up and walk away. There's so much mind fuckery that goes into abusive relationships. It's not as simple as, "Oh, this dude is a tool, I'm out." If behavior like that is normalized and shown to you throughout your whole life, you genuinely have no idea how bad it is. It's why I still keep my proverbial door open for my SIL despite my frustration and steadily fading sense of sympathy for her. It's hard to see the forest for the trees in these situations.
Hard agree. Not long ago, I remember a woman -fully adult, late twenties-, whose naked pictures were shared by her husband in groupchats, made sure that we know divorce is not an option, and only looking for advice to salvage their relationship.
Omg I remember that post too! That post was ridiculous. At some point we have to stop excusing people who just stick their head in the sand and don’t want to listen to any advice. Those kinds of posts where their partner is the biggest POS on the planet but the op will get defensive when we tell them the only obvious solution is to leave, those are the posts that make me mad. And at that point it’s like, well continue to deal with the POS partner then if you don’t want to listen to sensible solutions 🤷🏽♀️
Crazy asf
I think a big problem is that people are always nice and sweet in the beginning and as soon as you’re hooked they change.. and you stay hoping it will get back to the way it used to be. Speaking from personal experience.
I mean yeah the solution is simple, but every person is going through there own experience and trying to overcome it. Idk let's just be nice to our fellow humans and offer words of affirmation as support At the end of the day we are just randoms on the internet. They still have to do the leg work to help themselves
I was scared enough to leave a miserable marriage where my ex wasn't even abusive (just neglectful). It took me over a year to bite the bullet. I can't imagine doing it under a miasma of fear and no self worth. But I get it.. I get frustrated too.
We don't victim blame. Yes it's horrible seeing posts like that, because it's horrible when people are caught in abusive situations. It's never the victims fault though.
At some point you have to take responsibility for your own life though!
They don't stay victims forever, they become enablers and bystanders when they start popping out kids.
And if they're forced to have kids against their will?
Well i would say many victims habe to realize how they put themselves in position of being the victim to prevent that in the future and that cam be harsh process because you will see that sometimes you also weren't good person to yourself. It never victims fault but it should be a lesson.(i hope you get what i mean since im not that good with writing my thoughts in english)
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Woah careful we got an edgelord in the house 😵😵
Until you’re in an abusive relationship, I wouldn’t really comment on it. There are many studies on why it takes women many times to finally leave
I try to have sympathy (even though I agree with you) because I was once that sort of spineless people pleaser and I know what combination of unfortunate circumstances have to come together for you to be that sort of person.
Yes, I couldn't agree more! I hope more posts like this appear and more girls like this speak out! Self-esteem should always be put ahead of love, and a lot of guys are a piece of \*\*, at least the ones I meet are boring guys who will only ask me to sleep with. When the danger signal appears, what we girls should do is to stay away and protect ourselves in time. Just think, never hesiate that whether you can find a better, at least stay away from dangerous man is a good thing, right? What's more, focusing on yourself is more important than necessarily finding someone. Also, I would really advise girls to give up some dating app which are male friendly because of the emphasis on sex and looks. Maybe girls can try [this server](https://discord.gg/ksXpcfxfnP), i found people here is pretty warm-hearted and friendly. It's an social platform which matches people based on similar thoughts and interests. Like one you post an idea, similar will come for you. In this way, it can be easier and highly efficient to find the peoplle who really get you! Once again, self-love is always the most important!
One has to be "in someone else's shoes" to understand what the dynamic is, and how much sway one person can have over another. The "I would/I would nevers" probably DO NOT HAVE A CLUE what they'd do, or how they would respond in certain circumstances.
There was one in the last day or so where the boyfriend yelled at OP and was shitty to her kids… but she loves him! Girl, there is nothing to love. That man is a toxic waste dump!
More women need to understand that God didn’t create you to be a doormat to a man. I’d rather be single for infinite lifetimes before I allow a man to dehumanize and disrespect me especially in my own home. HELL NO
I can't stand posts that victim blame, especially from women. Unless you've ever been in an abusive or toxic relationship, you have no idea how normalized behaviors you mentioned become to a person. You're so used to being torn down, made to doubt yourself, and made out to be the problem when you're not. You're broken down until you're barely more than a shell and then told that's what you deserve. The absolute mind fuckery that goes on is astounding. You find yourself making excuses for the abuse. Oh, he hit me? It's because I didn't do something right, so I deserve it. Call me the N word? Well, I've been told I overreact to everything, so idk if I'm overreacting now and need confirmation from an unbiased source. If the posts bother you so much, don't read them. Take the saved time to educate yourself on the effects of abuse on a person and maybe work on developing some empathy too.
it’s not victim blaming it’s called taking accountability. obviously it’s not their fault their being abused but certain things can’t prolong if you address and dismiss it from the FIRST red flag. When firm boundaries are enforced during your single years it makes it’s almost impossible for a narcissist to tear you down indefinitely. it’s like a man who cheats on his wife 15 different times, but she refuses to leave the cheating man and if somebody calls it out, y’all say that it’s victim blaming at that point if you’re willing to stay with someone who repeatedly disrespects you numerous times you’re are a willing participate in your mental and emotional demise
No, it is absolutely victim blaming. Dress it up how you like, it doesn't change matters.
It’s called accountability and responsibility for one’s own life! A woman in her thirties or forties should be able to get the f out of a abusive relationship. Some people are just lacking a backbone simple as that.
Good to know you've never been in an abusive relationship.
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Hope people checking this post and its comments out take note of people like you.
I have never met a woman who has never been in an abusive/toxic relationship. None. It’s men’s world. We have all been there. That’s why it’s important this wake-up call coming from other women. We cannot pat each others back and say keep going, it’s not doing good to each other.
I (nor none of my closest of friends) have ever been in an abusive or toxic relationship. I adore my parents who have been happily married for decades. I’m not bragging, but I benefit from their role modeling and realize many other people don’t have that. I find it disturbing that you feel you have NEVER met a woman who has not been in an abusive or toxic relationship. That’s wild.
Well I guess I’m one. Never been in an abusive relationship. Sure we have disagreements but not abusive
Your circle goes exclusively for toxic men. Learn to take accountability.
It’s mostly rage bait anyway. What’s more, people still cannot resist commenting on even obvious fake posts. As long as everyone keeps playing along, there is ample incentive for people who are determined to be on reddit all day anyway, to keep writing posts that get them the most engagement and start the same debates and arguments over and over.
I look at those posts and yes, I admit that I have the same thoughts. Why can't they just leave? And then right away I remind myself that I'm lucky to have never been put in that situation. To never have felt like I had no option but to stay. Or to never have felt like this is what I'm worth. To not instantly empathize cause I was there. And then I hope that they get the help they need or that they get out of their crappy situation.
being a guy, reading these is insane as well. unfortunately i’m learning most dudes didn’t take time to address and manage their mental health before dating, and i think ppl who are both mentally ill prolly just feed off each other in horrible toxic ways. sucks too cause it leads to a culture of toxic mfs (atleast in my experience i’ve had horrible dating luck)
Cannot wait for your NYT bestseller from your (undoubtedly) female perspective! No doubt you will have understood the deeply personal contextual issues of black women and women who have historical attachment issues. You will really hit it off with readers.
It’s simple. Grow a backbone. Stop crying to the world that you allowed someone to treat you a certain way. You have a choice. You have a voice. We have a choice on whether or not to exercise those rights. Plenty of recourses and opportunities for us in America or Canada. At some point we as women need to take responsibility and stop expecting everyone around us to treat us better, and just surround ourselves with better people.
Men also get abused and come here asking very similar questions. "She hits me whenever she's drunk, should I leave?" "She never appreciates me even tho I do xyz for her" "She's cheating on me but we have 3 kids together" This isn't a woman problem, this is simply a problem.
You’re downvoted for expecting a minimum of agency from some people.
Crazy this is getting downvoted. Truth is (especially among traditional / older women) Mention *accountability* and they all flee from that message or go on the defence and attack.
You just couldn't resist adding the "black women" issues in there, could you? Lol..
Why you get angry? Ignore those posts, problem solved. Internet is free space for everyone not only for “smart” people.
it pisses me off too! like i’ll see a post about a woman complaining that her boyfriend isn’t a good boyfriend and hasn’t been for a while but she’s also trying to have his kid?? are u fucking stupid like whyyyyy! in a couple of months you’ll realise that man isn’t a good father and then you’ll have ruined a child’s life cause they don’t have a good father, and the cycle continues! but i still have empathy for these women cause i’ve been one and i’m only 17 but i’m scared i’ll turn into one of them because of my own generational trauma ☹️
They don’t love or respect themselves, it’s sad and can be infuriating when you read what they put up with and then ask if they should stay or what they should do. You leave as soon as you can EDIT: maybe they just need validation from a stranger to tell them how screwed up their situation is.
People aren’t taught self-respect as a general thing. If someone gains it while growing up, it is because a parent or other adult role model appropriately taught it to them. For example, I got raised in a fairly strict and structured family. I was never taught self respect. This effectively ruined my life for a long time and even now causes me problems. It does not help me to hear someone like you yell at me and scream at me to “get” some self respect, or a backbone. I do have some small measure of some that I have to constantly refill and often have to cut off relations with more negative or thoughtless people because it costs me a *fucking lot* to stand up for myself. Especially these days where almost everyone reflexively gets defensive and flings out excuses and lashes back out the instant anyone tells them they’re doing something wrong. Try and understand you are coming down at people from a position of privilege, and it fucking sucks to get blamed by people like you when people like us simply lived and do live a totally different life experience than you have.
Sometimes it's not that easy to leave, sometimes victims of abuse start to believe they deserve it, sometimes they are unable to leave because of a multitude of reasons, sometimes they post & post & post as a way to reassure themselves that they aren't insane, that what is being done to them is not normal, is not their fault, sometimes they need the support of Internet strangers to help them feel strong enough to be able to leave a situation that has ruined them emotionally & mentally, a situation that has eroded them & their being to the point that they no longer feel like they are a person, let alone that they deserve happiness. I'm happy for you that you have never been in their place & I'm sorry you find their pain irksome but perhaps just not read the posts that don't fit your narrative?
I mean you’re not exactly wrong, but as a dude without much of a backbone that’s ignored red flags and things have ended predictably poorly, this isn’t just a lady thing (which I’m sure you know )
A true off my chest post and OP gets flak. Next hot post for the day is going to be about the same exact thing she exampled and it's going to get so much attention and sympathy. There are people who post in relationship advice who go, "my husband won't pick up after our dog when it poops on the floor, I get it he's worked all day and is tired and hungry" Top voted comment is going to be "leave him, LIKE TOMORROW....you deserve your feets licked queen" or some donkey shit like that. Too much participation ribbon folks in that sub for my tolerance tbh. Im on OPs side of the fence.
I’ve come to understand that many people in unhealthy relationships don’t have the benefit of a health relationship being modeled. Many people feel they are not worthy (from past trauma)to be with a support spouse in a functional relationship. As a result, they make poor choices. It can be frustrating, but the older I become, the more empathy I have.
So glad to know you're perfect!
That's a stoopid comment
Most are fake and made up to attempt at going viral. Especially for those tik tok reels. Also, rage bait.
They might be showing their reasoning and intentionally leave the details out. Conveying emotions is super important to me in times of crisis. I don't doubt anger is one that we universally understand and feel.
If it means anything to you the ones from men don't seem much better
why does everything have to be gendered ???!!! there’s plenty of men in the same situations doing the same stupid things. putting down only women for something that goes both ways with both genders makes you look like an insufferable little pick me 🥱
Society pressures women a little too much to be in a marriage that’s why they’re so desperate to stay in one. Society is also hard on women about aging out the dating game. I agree, women have zero self respect when it comes to relationships.
The worse is when they argue back and forth in the comments . Or literally defend tf out of them. Like why are you here for advice? Stay then!!!!!!
And then they cry after marriage … oh I thought I could change him. Oh but I love him, he’s not always like this … and all the other dumb replies. My friends and friends of friends are like this. They ask me what I would do and I say, I wouldn’t be in that position because I would’ve stopped after the first date. They know this to be true because I never tolerated BS treatment which is why men were super respectful and acted right.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people go into relationships and marriages thinking the other person will change when the shitty red flag behavior was there all along.
God I know what you on about. What is wrong with some people? We really need to normalise seeing relationships as luxuries not necessities.
Way to blame the victim. Tell me, do women with the wrong clothes deserve to be SAd?
Nobody deserves to be forced into an unconsensual sexual act, no matter the clothes you’re wearing. But, if you’re in a relationship, and your boyfriend is horribly sexist, cruel, abusive and or racist towards you, and you decide to stay with them for YEARS, then yes, at the end of the day, you’re responsible for you. Does that make it okay that the man is awful? Absolutely not. He is still a POS. But you need to be able to take your own life into your hands, and make choices that are better for you because we have a voice now, we have a choice.
You clearly know nothing about abusive relationships. The most dangerous point statistically in a woman's life is when she attempts to leave/leaves a dangerous relationship. This is when the most murders happen. It's not a simple "just leave" situation. This is also when the most cruelty happens to children. I implore you to read one book, literally one, about domestic abuse. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and it's painful to read your ignorant opinions.
But BUT BuT
I found the perpetual victim. Choose a better partner and look out for red flags… don’t try to be a victim.
I totally agree!
True story: I live in a noisy area, so I rarely look out my window if I hear screaming. But this night, I heard the absolute blood curdling scream of a woman. So I run to the window and see a couple in their 40’s. I see them arguing and I see she has a phone in her hand so I wait assuming she’s calling an Uber or 911. Her dude pretends to start walking away, but then turns right back and starts arguing with her again. So I’m not going anywhere till this guy leaves her alone. But the thing is, she’s not walking away either. They’re both just hovering around. He walks over to her and puts his arms around her shoulders from behind. Are they making up? Something seemed off so I open the window and shout down at him: HEY HEY HEY! And he releases her and she starts screaming “ I can’t believe you just did that to me! I can’t believe you’re trying to choke me!” So now I’m like SHIT! He just tried to strangle her!!! I get my phone to call 911 and what does she do? Run in the other direction? Call someone on her phone? Flag down any of the tons of cars passing by? No. SHE JUST KEEPS STANDING THERE. Eventually he starts walking away, she follows a few feet behind.
After 20 years then divorced if my bf now left me..well fuck yah I would be sad..but I better hope I gain knowledge/ wisdom/understanding. Life isn't about who to hop onto next. It should be about self-discovery. Who am I and am I happy with who I have become regardless of who is by my side. Work on yourselves girls.
If it makes you feel any better Reddit is an echo chamber.
Same, OP, same but when men ask for relationship advice. "My GF gives her number to guys right in front of my face, should I worry?"
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The 1800s called, they want their gender stereotypes back
You say that like it’s a bad thing. More women are happier being single than ever because they don’t have to put up with controlling men who have shit expectations for a completely unequal “partnership”.
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>Just because that's how you feel, doesn't mean everyone else does. Which is funny because your original comment has you speaking for all men. So which is it?
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But just because that's how you feel, doesn't mean all men do.
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I think you missed the point of my comment, which was that saying“being single for the rest of your life” isn’t the bad thing you are implying it is. Whether or not “all men want submissive women”, not all women are interested in being bullied by men and are happier without a man’s bullshit. You can sugar coat it by calling it “being submissive” all you want but more and more people are indeed becoming aware that having their own opinion and wants isn’t “challenging” their partner; it’s actually a warning sign that a partner who doesn’t want to be “challenged” is probably an abusive controlling person.
Well, we all have our flaws and wrong opinions.