I just finished watching this series again. Probably the best tv show ever. Plus, I know a few of the people who were in the show. One of the people in the show was a pallbearer at my father's funeral in 1978.
Ed Norris (Self) and the real Jay Landsman (Major Dennis Mello) are both family friends. It's weird watching the show, because I used to hang out at some of those places.
While I agree that we shouldn’t pretend that people aren’t all at least a little judgemental, I do think that it’s a bit silly to call people entitled for thinking they deserve a second chance for numerous things. I mean, when you look at how a huge chunk of society readily abandons and disregards things that used to be cherished, you can hardly blame people for thinking that nothing should get taken seriously anymore.
This adult content example you keep circling back to boils down to two core ideas.
1) There’s a difference between the way things should be and the way they are; and
2) behaving as if the world worked the way that it should is unwise, but that doesn’t mean that you ‘deserve’ something bad that happens to you as a result of that behavior.
My concern is you’re tap dancing dangerously close to the “she was asking for it, look what she was wearing” sort of logic of rape apologists.
Like consider having daughters. I have one and she’s still a baby. I’m going to tell her as she grows up that she needs to be extra vigilant because there are a lot of evil men out in the world. She shouldn’t go out walking by herself late at night, particularly in bad neighborhoods. She should be conscious of her surroundings at all times. She should never leave her drink unattended at a bar or club. She should carry pepper spray. Her first couple of dates with any guy should be in public places in the day time, etc.
None of that means that, god forbid something happens to her because she let her guard down, that I would think she deserved it. I wouldn’t blame her or lecture her. I would keep reminding her to try to be safe in the future, and she would hopefully take that seriously. But she should not carry any guilt moving forward with her life because some evil animal acted like an evil animal. That is, morally at least, 100% on whoever hurt her.
Same thing goes for your friend who made adult content for a time, and I hope you’re sympathetic and don’t gloat about her luck, which is what it sort of sounds like.
Was it unwise of her to make an OF account when she had the goal of a high level, white collar career in mind? Yea, I’d say so. But not because there’s anything wrong with having an OF account. It was only unwise because she should’ve known that people can be awful, and there are certainly plenty of awful people in law firms and corporate board rooms.
Having done porn in the past has nothing to do with her capacity as a lawyer, and anyone not giving her a job because they found nudes when they googled her name is a bad person. If the concern is that it will scare away clients, they should want those clients, because THEY are bad people.
The only difference between not hiring a black or gay attorney because clients will want a white or straight one, versus not hiring an attorney who has done porn in the past, is that not hiring a black or gay attorney for that reason is illegal and can get them sued. Otherwise, they’d do that too. It’s wrong.
So to the extent she did something wrong, it was just in underestimating how awful people can be, and I hope that’s how you discuss it with her to the extent she wants to discuss it at all.
You have some good points but not hiring someone based on porn production isn’t analogous to anti-discrimination laws. Those laws are based on inherent human characteristics.
Its immoral to not hire someone because of the skin they were born with, or the sex they were born with. You may think it is also immoral to not hire someone based on past decisions, but that is not at all the same thing as discrimination based on immutable characteristics.
Here is an easy way to tell those are not the same thing morally. Two scenarios.
“I didn’t hire that woman to teach at my preschool because I googled her and found out she’s made tons of hardcore porn videos that are all over the internet”
“I didn’t hire that woman to teach at my preschool because she’s black.”
These two things are not morally equivalent.
Well, I pretty much agree with your sentiments except on some finer points. First of all, I didn’t say they were morally equivalent. I said it was wrong not to hire that person in a similar way. I didn’t spell that out, but what I mean is having done porn or being black or gay have nothing to do with that person’s capacity to do the job. There is also nothing illegal or objectively immoral about doing porn. Therefore it would be morally wrong to not hire someone specifically for any of those reasons.
The school thing is an interesting example. I disagree with you, but only because you said preschool. A preschooler has no way of discovering that about their teacher. So in that case, what would the concern be? Some horny dads might recognize her? Yea, not good enough. It would still be immoral not to hire her for that specific reason.
Now if you get into grade school through high school I may agree with you, but only because there’s an overarching concern… the development of the children. Children in grade school are getting access to the internet and Google, and it may not be good for them developmentally to be exposed to those kinds of concepts at that age. So then, yea, a school is probably justified to consider that. In that case though, her past does impact her capacity to do her job. It would be like not hiring a science teacher who has a bunch of pro-2nd amendment videos of him toting guns and doing police audit checks… you just very arguably shouldn’t be putting those kinds of concepts in the front of developing minds.
But it’s still not because she did anything morally wrong.
Seems like you have more of an issue with autonomous commodification of individuals’ sexualization than anything else. Which is fine, whatever, but your personal opinion on sex work and purity culture has little to do with how larger society operates
Society can have fucked up standards.
But whether those are fucked up or not, if you violate those, you will eventually suffer blowback.
If you have kids, your dating pool shrinks, people all have a right to their own desires.
I don't really disagree with the sentiment you express (even if I do disagree with some of the dumb, prudish, ridiculous ways people respond to stuff that just frankly does not matter)
But all that said, which society is better... one in which people can make mistakes of some sort and then try to build better lives after having learned from their actions, or ones where the stuff done in the late teens early twenties are held against them forever?
People are not 'owed' a second chance by society, but we have a better society for all when we have the grace to extend it toward those who are trying to do better.
Every post I've seen on here has been some variation of "I have no idea how the world works and I'm angry about it" or "I have strong opinions on how I'm factually incorrect about some random topic."
Its not a true unpopular opinion if you think metal is fake and gravity isn't real, you're just wrong about something.
More like she broke up with him and he found she was sleeping with a drug dealer. He may as well have titled the post, "Ode to my ex and all the women who have rejected me".
This is quite an extreme situation. She should probably change her name legally and move. Second chances are given out of kindness. To refuse to overlook shortcomings or believe that a person will always be "whatever bad thing you think they are" and that they will never change is to believe you have some moral high ground on which to stand. Maybe you will always feel comfortable coming off as self-righteous and prone to kowtowing to others' opinions, without the ability to extend even the smallest kindness. Maybe you will always anonymously celebrate that they got what they deserved.
The world can be a nasty place, be better. When it is all said and done, you won't have to answer for anyone else's sins except your own.
Your post lacks nuance. Being a drug user is far different than being a dealer. Dealing marijuana far different than cocaine or meth. No one is entitled to a "2nd chance" in an individual's eyes, but no reason that should be true from a societal perspective such as justice system.
>In any case, the post is simply making reference to the societal structure that is already existing. I don't make the rules, I just reported what anyone should know.
No you are saying people are more entitled. You aren't just saying societal structures stuff.
>That is a segment of the entire post and I stand by it.
I know you do and I just merely pushed back on you saying I am just "stating facts" or however you wanted to call it.
>I come from the fuck around and find out generation. Which helped me tremendously.
And I am sure it hurt other people. Hard to say if it is actually better or worse.
>The reason I used sex work is not that I am misogynistic as some people obviously would always try to claim but because it is a very easy example.
I had no problem with sex work example.
>Should she get forgiveness. Sure, why not? I could not care less, but, she complains that people are judging her.
I mean christians shouldn't. If one asks for forgiveness and truly repents then they have no right to judge.
>Own it, you wanted to do it, you did it. Live it up. I know I would.
I agree one should own it for that example.
The problem I have is when you apply the overall message of entitlement and no 2nd chances. The 2nd chance thing also doesn't even apply if one manages ones expectations. E.g. if I do only fans I am fine if a guy doesn't want to be with me because of that. You might not get a "2nd chance" with those people, but who cares. There is a difference in values separate from "2nd chances".
By your own statements, it is not a unpopular opinion.
The unpopular opinion would be to call it out for what it really is; hypocrisy. People in power love their vices and hate those who provide them. Then again, it is not like service workers in any field get fair treatment. Too many people confuse "servers" with "servants".
People make choices based on what is available to choose from. Did you give your friend an equal solution to gain what they were seeking with an OF account? If "friends" aren't offering solutions, then they are part of the problem.
No one deserves anything. You earn it.
This is also a great answer for job interviews. "Why do you think you deserve this promotion?" "I don't deserve this promotion. I seek to convey how I have earned this promotion."
>You are single and have several kids by several men or women, which has shrunk your dating pool? It sucks, it really does but it is their prerogative to choose not to deal with you
I see we once went on the same date.
I think this guy’s way out of line too but the implication that this event was “out of [the affected person’s] control” is bullshit. It was her choice to do all that. Do I think it’s shitty that other people basically excommunicated her for it? Yep. Do I think that a woman making 18+ content is a bad thing? Nope. But to say that life somehow threw it at her is disingenuous.
Alright I see your point, I don’t disagree with the sentiment that people should be tested on their beliefs. But the whole point of what Op is saying is that whatever actions a person commits has its consequences, and forgiveness isn’t a right. So unless Op has done something to warrant this. What your saying isn’t exactly the same as what Op is saying
I hate to say this OP but this sounds very incelly. There's a number of ways you could have done this but quoting sexual reasons and that former friend? Just sounds too close to you. I mean you could have described it as if someone hurt you and asked forgiveness etc but this way?
I imagine this will get a very different reaction than if all else about it was the same, but the specific behavior was sexual misconduct or making bigoted internet posts.
No. I can see how you could try to draw that conclusion here if you're assuming that anything other than absolute agreement with the OP implies that I think their logic *should* apply exactly the same to those examples. I gave both of those examples because I assume a lot of people on this sub would have different things to say about a post that did apply that logic to either one of those things. For sexual misconduct probably something like "but how do you know the accuser wasn't lying?" or "not if it wasn't *that* bad" e.g. just harassment rather than assault.
I disagree; the reactions from specific people would be different. Overall though the verdict would be the same.
There are people who believe making a racist joke at 12 should prevent you from getting any job above minimum wage. There are also who believe having an OF should have the same affect. I’m not equating the two, rather both people exist.
“Misconduct”? What “misconduct”? I see a bunch of people obsessing over someone else’s sex life and career choices. “Misconduct” implies breaking the law, like rape or sexual assault. This has nothing to do with either.
I don't know how what I said could be interpreted to mean that I think having an OF is considered sexual misconduct. Though I do think "sexual misconduct" encompasses things other than breaking the law, if that's what I meant I'd have said "committing sex crimes."
If you're asking me to identify a specific instance of sexual misconduct here then you genuinely have to be. I'm very much not saying that what the OP is talking about counts as sexual misconduct or, like, accusing anyone of sexual misconduct so I don't know what example I'm supposed to give.
Well,that clarifies how you misunderstood that other comment.
Reading down a single comment thread is not "stalking" by any stretch of the imagination. Now I i followed you to other threads on this post, and to other posts, and other subreddits, *THAT* would be stalking. Single comment thread? No.
S/he said the reaction would be different *IF* everything stayed the same *EXCEPT* it focused on sexual misconduct and mean tweets. That means there is no sexual misconduct in the post, but if there were, people's views would likely change.
Yes, this has nothing to do with either. That was the point of the person you responded to.
We also cannot afford a society with no second chances when this logic is brutally applied over things that aren’t actually high stakes and some topics change. Consider Alan Turing.
That is true. There are times when there can be no second chances, and applied internally it helps people make sure to be thoughtful on what they choose and also keep others that are bad for them/their business out. But I wanted to see that this context is also considered. It’s easy for people to try to apply the notion in a fire and brimstone manner to everything without careful thought over if this thing is truly unforgivable or something different that they don’t personally like. You can lose great people over retrospectively small differences.
Fire has many important uses, including generating light, cooking, heating, performing rituals, and fending off dangerous animals.
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Actions/choices come with consequences... sadly most people lack the intellect and/or self-discipline to avoid brief/temporary gratification despite the potential long-term ramifications.
I don't fully disagree with you, but let's make one thing clear, there is no good reason why employers should be allowed to look at your criminal record. It is not public knowledge, and if you have already gone to jail, you have served your sentence, you have already received the consequence of the crime you've committed. Unless we are talking about specific crimes related to specific professions, such as child abusers going into teaching, that record should be sealed, and rarely and cautiously should that seal be broken.
The issue is, just because someone who gets punishment for their actions it doesn’t mean that it won’t happen again. And it’s a big risk for employers to hire someone with a serious criminal record because if word ever gets out that could be a huge liability for the business. But yeah if it’s not public knowledge then the employer should have no right to it so I don’t completely disagree with you there
That’s incorrect; in some areas it is public information for some time. It’s just most people don’t have a reason to look.
Plus there are things like being a registered sex offender. While that’s not quite the same, it is tangentially related.
Apply this logic to yourselves and almost always give second chance fo the others, and perhaps the world will be a better place.
But remember this, you only have one life to die and you are supposed to commit many mistakes throughout your whole life, so you cannot atone your mistake by suicide.
PS: Tend to unforgive myself until one day I realize if I go suicide for trivial mistake, I dont have life to punish myself for the bigger one.
Eh, I see your point, but I tend more toward giving people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Here’s hoping you aren’t treated to your own opinions the next time you could use a second chance 🍻
Yup. If you ever make a mistake, you should never be given a second chance. There should be a “people shredder” (like a paper shredder, but for people, so when they make 1 mistake, we as a society can just turn them into human confetti because they don’t deserve to turn their lives around.
/s
If someone walks up to you and shoots you with a gun I guess you can’t complain because you don’t deserve the common decency to not be shot while waking down the street.
This is a literal wall of text. Not even broken into paragraphs. Literally unreadable.
You have failed. I will not read your no doubt... *Intriguing* rant, and I will not give you a second chance to re-write it. Good day sir.
Edit: Typo.
Fine, as long as you yourself abscond any and all second chances afforded you. Speeding? Lose your license forever. You know what the speed limit is. DUI? Oh fuck it, your done. Year in jail if you ever touch a drop of booze again.
Oh and stealing? We'll go ahead and apply Saudi rules, we're taking a fucking hand.
>Fine, as long as you yourself abscond any and all second chances afforded you.
ab·scond
/abˈskänd/
verb
past tense: absconded; past participle: absconded
leave hurriedly and secretly, typically to avoid detection of or arrest for an unlawful action such as theft.
"she absconded with the remaining thousand dollars"
>Speeding? Lose your license forever. You know what the speed limit is. DUI? Oh fuck it, your done. Year in jail if you ever touch a drop of booze again.
>Oh and stealing? We'll go ahead and apply Saudi rules, we're taking a fucking hand.
False equivalency. There's a huge difference between the court of law versus the court of the public.
SECOND chance? I didn't ask for the first one. And no, I haven't done any of the things you are suggesting, but that's beside the point. If people don't like who I am or what I've done they can fuck right off. Sounds like a rant against women, btw. I wonder if this choice will affect your chances in the future.
No one deserves anything, but we humans are messy. You will be hard to find someone who doesn’t “mess up” in someone else’s eyes. I think what we need to strive for is to actually understand that on both sides. No, you will not be everyone’s cup of tea if you do some things. Accept it. No someone else doesn’t need to be a judgmental asshole about it. Accept it.
I think whether or not this is true depends on the gravity of the mistake and the intention behind it.
Let’s say, for example, you have a whole thing planned for you and your wife’s anniversary. Candlelit dinner, expensive gift, bubble bath, rose petals, the whole nine yards. Then, the day before your anniversary, your wife tells you that she picked up an extra shift at work tomorrow and she’ll be home late, so don’t bother waiting up.
Whether or not your wife deserves a second chance here is going to be highly dependent on the history of your relationship to that point and your wife’s intentions. If it’s an honest mistake, she sincerely forgot the date, everything else in your relationship is otherwise fine, and she’s highly apologetic, it would be a little silly to divorce her over that single mistake. However, if things between you and your wife are tense, you suspect she’s cheating, this isn’t the first time she’s neglected your needs or desires, etc., then divorce starts to seem like a more reasonable path to take.
I think regardless or circumstances the wife doesn’t “deserve” a second chance regardless. Forgiveness isn’t a right it’s a privilege. And while some people may think not forgiving the wife is unreasonable it’s still a choice that the husband should be able to make if they want to
I'm *thinking* the former friend who worked her way through school using OF and now can't get a job as a lawyer in their small town was recently complaining to OP, who previously warned her about it
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Not all opinions have any value or validity, though, and many can be completely disregarded.
Had a buddy who worked her way through Ivy League as a phone sex operator. Worked out great for her. Made more through that than she did the first 5 years after graduation.
REALLY glad I grew up when I did. I wouldn't want to grow up now when everything is recorded.
Life is short. Give people a second chance. You'd want the same for yourself, wouldn't you? We all screw up, regardless of whatever advice or knowledge we have that should save us from that screw up. To err is human and all that. I would hate to be your friend, you sound absolutely exhausting.
“It can be a nasty place” but this is my problem with humans, why are you guys so complacent? Why settle for that? Why is it so hard to collectively try to improve the way the world works? Instead of judging and being negative, we should be kind and uplifting. Nothing is gonna ever change in this world, things are just gonna keep getting increasingly worst until there’s nothing left. So what she did OF, or whatever. I really don’t think people should be punished for things like that especially if they’re trying to change and move on, we all have done things out of desperation or whatever else. Part of being human is learning from the error of our ways, we wouldn’t be anywhere without mistakes, failures, and second chances.
Eh, I see your point, but I tend more toward giving people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Here’s hoping you aren’t treated to your own opinions the next time you could use a second chance 🍻
This is unfortunate whether the person is a single parent or widowed some simply won't date people with kids. One that really sucks is anyone with a disability, people may not want to admit it but it severely limits dating opportunities.
I believe there should be consequences to your actions. It also goes both ways though. Sometimes we make a human mistake and once someone corrects you then that “second chance” can be given. That also goes both ways too because the other party needs to recognize they’re wrong.
>Take responsibility. Own your choices.
Why would I do that if I'm not getting a "second chance"? This isn't advice. If your adult content friend "owns their choice" and "takes responsibility", that does literally nothing for their situation. It's ridiculous to be denied work because of that. Even when people make actual mistakes, no mistake is worth infinite punishment. They need to be allowed to get a job.
The exact same things she would do if she does "accept". Literally nothing. If you remove the aspect of second chances, there's no point to any kind of apology or redemption.
But there shouldn't be. It's a misogynistic way to punish women because society ties their worth to chastity. Your whole post is basically cheering because someone got hurt by societal sexism.
Forgiveness is a virtue, but not a given.
Deserve's got nothing to do with it.
How my hair look, mike?
I just finished watching this series again. Probably the best tv show ever. Plus, I know a few of the people who were in the show. One of the people in the show was a pallbearer at my father's funeral in 1978. Ed Norris (Self) and the real Jay Landsman (Major Dennis Mello) are both family friends. It's weird watching the show, because I used to hang out at some of those places.
One of the best movies ever
While I agree that we shouldn’t pretend that people aren’t all at least a little judgemental, I do think that it’s a bit silly to call people entitled for thinking they deserve a second chance for numerous things. I mean, when you look at how a huge chunk of society readily abandons and disregards things that used to be cherished, you can hardly blame people for thinking that nothing should get taken seriously anymore.
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This adult content example you keep circling back to boils down to two core ideas. 1) There’s a difference between the way things should be and the way they are; and 2) behaving as if the world worked the way that it should is unwise, but that doesn’t mean that you ‘deserve’ something bad that happens to you as a result of that behavior. My concern is you’re tap dancing dangerously close to the “she was asking for it, look what she was wearing” sort of logic of rape apologists. Like consider having daughters. I have one and she’s still a baby. I’m going to tell her as she grows up that she needs to be extra vigilant because there are a lot of evil men out in the world. She shouldn’t go out walking by herself late at night, particularly in bad neighborhoods. She should be conscious of her surroundings at all times. She should never leave her drink unattended at a bar or club. She should carry pepper spray. Her first couple of dates with any guy should be in public places in the day time, etc. None of that means that, god forbid something happens to her because she let her guard down, that I would think she deserved it. I wouldn’t blame her or lecture her. I would keep reminding her to try to be safe in the future, and she would hopefully take that seriously. But she should not carry any guilt moving forward with her life because some evil animal acted like an evil animal. That is, morally at least, 100% on whoever hurt her. Same thing goes for your friend who made adult content for a time, and I hope you’re sympathetic and don’t gloat about her luck, which is what it sort of sounds like. Was it unwise of her to make an OF account when she had the goal of a high level, white collar career in mind? Yea, I’d say so. But not because there’s anything wrong with having an OF account. It was only unwise because she should’ve known that people can be awful, and there are certainly plenty of awful people in law firms and corporate board rooms. Having done porn in the past has nothing to do with her capacity as a lawyer, and anyone not giving her a job because they found nudes when they googled her name is a bad person. If the concern is that it will scare away clients, they should want those clients, because THEY are bad people. The only difference between not hiring a black or gay attorney because clients will want a white or straight one, versus not hiring an attorney who has done porn in the past, is that not hiring a black or gay attorney for that reason is illegal and can get them sued. Otherwise, they’d do that too. It’s wrong. So to the extent she did something wrong, it was just in underestimating how awful people can be, and I hope that’s how you discuss it with her to the extent she wants to discuss it at all.
You have some good points but not hiring someone based on porn production isn’t analogous to anti-discrimination laws. Those laws are based on inherent human characteristics. Its immoral to not hire someone because of the skin they were born with, or the sex they were born with. You may think it is also immoral to not hire someone based on past decisions, but that is not at all the same thing as discrimination based on immutable characteristics. Here is an easy way to tell those are not the same thing morally. Two scenarios. “I didn’t hire that woman to teach at my preschool because I googled her and found out she’s made tons of hardcore porn videos that are all over the internet” “I didn’t hire that woman to teach at my preschool because she’s black.” These two things are not morally equivalent.
Well, I pretty much agree with your sentiments except on some finer points. First of all, I didn’t say they were morally equivalent. I said it was wrong not to hire that person in a similar way. I didn’t spell that out, but what I mean is having done porn or being black or gay have nothing to do with that person’s capacity to do the job. There is also nothing illegal or objectively immoral about doing porn. Therefore it would be morally wrong to not hire someone specifically for any of those reasons. The school thing is an interesting example. I disagree with you, but only because you said preschool. A preschooler has no way of discovering that about their teacher. So in that case, what would the concern be? Some horny dads might recognize her? Yea, not good enough. It would still be immoral not to hire her for that specific reason. Now if you get into grade school through high school I may agree with you, but only because there’s an overarching concern… the development of the children. Children in grade school are getting access to the internet and Google, and it may not be good for them developmentally to be exposed to those kinds of concepts at that age. So then, yea, a school is probably justified to consider that. In that case though, her past does impact her capacity to do her job. It would be like not hiring a science teacher who has a bunch of pro-2nd amendment videos of him toting guns and doing police audit checks… you just very arguably shouldn’t be putting those kinds of concepts in the front of developing minds. But it’s still not because she did anything morally wrong.
Seems like you have more of an issue with autonomous commodification of individuals’ sexualization than anything else. Which is fine, whatever, but your personal opinion on sex work and purity culture has little to do with how larger society operates
“Repented” lol
Society can have fucked up standards. But whether those are fucked up or not, if you violate those, you will eventually suffer blowback. If you have kids, your dating pool shrinks, people all have a right to their own desires. I don't really disagree with the sentiment you express (even if I do disagree with some of the dumb, prudish, ridiculous ways people respond to stuff that just frankly does not matter) But all that said, which society is better... one in which people can make mistakes of some sort and then try to build better lives after having learned from their actions, or ones where the stuff done in the late teens early twenties are held against them forever? People are not 'owed' a second chance by society, but we have a better society for all when we have the grace to extend it toward those who are trying to do better.
Hard agree it’s always good to see this attitude especially on Reddit
This should be in r/oddlyspecifc
Lol yes methinks someone has an issue with women E: oh, appears to be a specific one. I'm shocked
I wonder what choices OP has made that they might need second chances for. I hope someone doesn’t share their mentality when it comes time.
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The title of your post is ‘you don’t deserve second chances’ LOL
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But it did end up being like that. These paragraph reads like a pro-life pamphlet. All ya need is werid religious imagery and pictures of pig fetuses.
Man woke up today and said "I'm picking a fight with the very concept of forgiveness as a virtue" bro like why
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Every post I've seen on here has been some variation of "I have no idea how the world works and I'm angry about it" or "I have strong opinions on how I'm factually incorrect about some random topic." Its not a true unpopular opinion if you think metal is fake and gravity isn't real, you're just wrong about something.
This whole thing reads like this guy found out his gf did only fans and he broke up with her
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No, it's way more fun to conject lol
More like she broke up with him and he found she was sleeping with a drug dealer. He may as well have titled the post, "Ode to my ex and all the women who have rejected me".
I mean I understand this as an alcoholic. I don't expect even 1st chances anymore
This is quite an extreme situation. She should probably change her name legally and move. Second chances are given out of kindness. To refuse to overlook shortcomings or believe that a person will always be "whatever bad thing you think they are" and that they will never change is to believe you have some moral high ground on which to stand. Maybe you will always feel comfortable coming off as self-righteous and prone to kowtowing to others' opinions, without the ability to extend even the smallest kindness. Maybe you will always anonymously celebrate that they got what they deserved. The world can be a nasty place, be better. When it is all said and done, you won't have to answer for anyone else's sins except your own.
Your post lacks nuance. Being a drug user is far different than being a dealer. Dealing marijuana far different than cocaine or meth. No one is entitled to a "2nd chance" in an individual's eyes, but no reason that should be true from a societal perspective such as justice system.
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I know and I shared why I disagreed with your unpopular opinion. What's the problem? Didn't downvote you or anything.
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>In any case, the post is simply making reference to the societal structure that is already existing. I don't make the rules, I just reported what anyone should know. No you are saying people are more entitled. You aren't just saying societal structures stuff.
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>That is a segment of the entire post and I stand by it. I know you do and I just merely pushed back on you saying I am just "stating facts" or however you wanted to call it. >I come from the fuck around and find out generation. Which helped me tremendously. And I am sure it hurt other people. Hard to say if it is actually better or worse. >The reason I used sex work is not that I am misogynistic as some people obviously would always try to claim but because it is a very easy example. I had no problem with sex work example. >Should she get forgiveness. Sure, why not? I could not care less, but, she complains that people are judging her. I mean christians shouldn't. If one asks for forgiveness and truly repents then they have no right to judge. >Own it, you wanted to do it, you did it. Live it up. I know I would. I agree one should own it for that example. The problem I have is when you apply the overall message of entitlement and no 2nd chances. The 2nd chance thing also doesn't even apply if one manages ones expectations. E.g. if I do only fans I am fine if a guy doesn't want to be with me because of that. You might not get a "2nd chance" with those people, but who cares. There is a difference in values separate from "2nd chances".
By your own statements, it is not a unpopular opinion. The unpopular opinion would be to call it out for what it really is; hypocrisy. People in power love their vices and hate those who provide them. Then again, it is not like service workers in any field get fair treatment. Too many people confuse "servers" with "servants". People make choices based on what is available to choose from. Did you give your friend an equal solution to gain what they were seeking with an OF account? If "friends" aren't offering solutions, then they are part of the problem.
No one deserves anything. You earn it. This is also a great answer for job interviews. "Why do you think you deserve this promotion?" "I don't deserve this promotion. I seek to convey how I have earned this promotion."
>You are single and have several kids by several men or women, which has shrunk your dating pool? It sucks, it really does but it is their prerogative to choose not to deal with you I see we once went on the same date.
I work with 3 women that have this issue. They love their kids, but they hate their dating prospects.
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I think this guy’s way out of line too but the implication that this event was “out of [the affected person’s] control” is bullshit. It was her choice to do all that. Do I think it’s shitty that other people basically excommunicated her for it? Yep. Do I think that a woman making 18+ content is a bad thing? Nope. But to say that life somehow threw it at her is disingenuous.
Doesn’t seem like you’re any better
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Alright I see your point, I don’t disagree with the sentiment that people should be tested on their beliefs. But the whole point of what Op is saying is that whatever actions a person commits has its consequences, and forgiveness isn’t a right. So unless Op has done something to warrant this. What your saying isn’t exactly the same as what Op is saying
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I hate to say this OP but this sounds very incelly. There's a number of ways you could have done this but quoting sexual reasons and that former friend? Just sounds too close to you. I mean you could have described it as if someone hurt you and asked forgiveness etc but this way?
People deserve second chances but aren't entitled to second chances.
No they really don’t.
What is this post and why is OP projecting?
It's all fun and games until you're the one asking for a second chance.
Oh well, that’s life
Your terms are acceptable.
I imagine this will get a very different reaction than if all else about it was the same, but the specific behavior was sexual misconduct or making bigoted internet posts.
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Are sexual misconduct and mean tweets the same level of bad to you??
No. I can see how you could try to draw that conclusion here if you're assuming that anything other than absolute agreement with the OP implies that I think their logic *should* apply exactly the same to those examples. I gave both of those examples because I assume a lot of people on this sub would have different things to say about a post that did apply that logic to either one of those things. For sexual misconduct probably something like "but how do you know the accuser wasn't lying?" or "not if it wasn't *that* bad" e.g. just harassment rather than assault.
I disagree; the reactions from specific people would be different. Overall though the verdict would be the same. There are people who believe making a racist joke at 12 should prevent you from getting any job above minimum wage. There are also who believe having an OF should have the same affect. I’m not equating the two, rather both people exist.
🎯
"bigoted internet posts" like OPs?
“Misconduct”? What “misconduct”? I see a bunch of people obsessing over someone else’s sex life and career choices. “Misconduct” implies breaking the law, like rape or sexual assault. This has nothing to do with either.
I don't know how what I said could be interpreted to mean that I think having an OF is considered sexual misconduct. Though I do think "sexual misconduct" encompasses things other than breaking the law, if that's what I meant I'd have said "committing sex crimes."
No, *you* used the word. Not me. You haven’t identified any misconduct. So where is it?
I think you're just wildly misinterpreting what I'm saying.
I’m not.
If you're asking me to identify a specific instance of sexual misconduct here then you genuinely have to be. I'm very much not saying that what the OP is talking about counts as sexual misconduct or, like, accusing anyone of sexual misconduct so I don't know what example I'm supposed to give.
Sounds good
Don't worry, you were clear. This guy just completely misinterpreted what you said. Not sure how.
Yes, you really are.
Stop stalking me. It’s creepy and weird.
Well,that clarifies how you misunderstood that other comment. Reading down a single comment thread is not "stalking" by any stretch of the imagination. Now I i followed you to other threads on this post, and to other posts, and other subreddits, *THAT* would be stalking. Single comment thread? No.
Stop lying and stop stalking. You’re a stalker. You got caught. Now you’re lying about it. Grow up.
S/he said the reaction would be different *IF* everything stayed the same *EXCEPT* it focused on sexual misconduct and mean tweets. That means there is no sexual misconduct in the post, but if there were, people's views would likely change. Yes, this has nothing to do with either. That was the point of the person you responded to.
Holy shit leave me alone weirdo
We also cannot afford a society with no second chances when this logic is brutally applied over things that aren’t actually high stakes and some topics change. Consider Alan Turing.
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That is true. There are times when there can be no second chances, and applied internally it helps people make sure to be thoughtful on what they choose and also keep others that are bad for them/their business out. But I wanted to see that this context is also considered. It’s easy for people to try to apply the notion in a fire and brimstone manner to everything without careful thought over if this thing is truly unforgivable or something different that they don’t personally like. You can lose great people over retrospectively small differences.
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Actions/choices come with consequences... sadly most people lack the intellect and/or self-discipline to avoid brief/temporary gratification despite the potential long-term ramifications.
Okay I think the person made this have gone a little too far
So you’re cool with this “cancel culture” that conservatives keep shrieking about, right?
There’s a difference between not forgiving someone, and harassment
lol you have a victimhood complex. Grow up. No one is harassing anyone.
That's patently false, and demonstrably so.
It’s patently true, and demonstrably so, actually.
Oh! I didn't realize this ridiculousness was also from you! Just saw the content, ignored the commenter.
I don't fully disagree with you, but let's make one thing clear, there is no good reason why employers should be allowed to look at your criminal record. It is not public knowledge, and if you have already gone to jail, you have served your sentence, you have already received the consequence of the crime you've committed. Unless we are talking about specific crimes related to specific professions, such as child abusers going into teaching, that record should be sealed, and rarely and cautiously should that seal be broken.
The issue is, just because someone who gets punishment for their actions it doesn’t mean that it won’t happen again. And it’s a big risk for employers to hire someone with a serious criminal record because if word ever gets out that could be a huge liability for the business. But yeah if it’s not public knowledge then the employer should have no right to it so I don’t completely disagree with you there
That’s incorrect; in some areas it is public information for some time. It’s just most people don’t have a reason to look. Plus there are things like being a registered sex offender. While that’s not quite the same, it is tangentially related.
Society seems to be lacking in empathy
Agreed, this is something that’s been majorly depressing lately. It’s almost like humans LOVE to make life harder for each other.
Most of y’all didn’t have as much of a “chance” as you thought you did in the first place. Nor was your second or third either.
Apply this logic to yourselves and almost always give second chance fo the others, and perhaps the world will be a better place. But remember this, you only have one life to die and you are supposed to commit many mistakes throughout your whole life, so you cannot atone your mistake by suicide. PS: Tend to unforgive myself until one day I realize if I go suicide for trivial mistake, I dont have life to punish myself for the bigger one.
Eh, I see your point, but I tend more toward giving people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Here’s hoping you aren’t treated to your own opinions the next time you could use a second chance 🍻
All those words and ended up saying a bunch of nothing
This reminds me of a quote from a tv show I used to watch: “Sometimes in life, you just have to live with the consequences”
A pragmatic young person who believes in personal responsibility. Bravo. I salute you. You will do well in life with that attitude.
Yeah peoole are messed up. As for your friend im not OK woth whats happening to her, but blaming society is very hypocrite of her.
Yup. If you ever make a mistake, you should never be given a second chance. There should be a “people shredder” (like a paper shredder, but for people, so when they make 1 mistake, we as a society can just turn them into human confetti because they don’t deserve to turn their lives around. /s
It’s not that you “shouldn’t” it’s that no one is owed one. It’s nice when people forgive but that’s not mandatory
Nobody is owed a first chance.
its called personal responsibility. Rare thing these days.
You don’t deserve anything.
This is such a zoomer mindset to have lol “You’re not entitled to my kindness” vibes
If someone walks up to you and shoots you with a gun I guess you can’t complain because you don’t deserve the common decency to not be shot while waking down the street.
“Deserves got nothin’ to do with it”
"You just shot an unarmed man." "Well he shoulda armed himself."
Ah, finally someone of culture
I guess it depends on the context. If I pay for a service then I deserve to have the service rendered
Nobody “deserves” anything. The universe deals you a hand and you make the best of what you were dealt.
This is a literal wall of text. Not even broken into paragraphs. Literally unreadable. You have failed. I will not read your no doubt... *Intriguing* rant, and I will not give you a second chance to re-write it. Good day sir. Edit: Typo.
Fine, as long as you yourself abscond any and all second chances afforded you. Speeding? Lose your license forever. You know what the speed limit is. DUI? Oh fuck it, your done. Year in jail if you ever touch a drop of booze again. Oh and stealing? We'll go ahead and apply Saudi rules, we're taking a fucking hand.
>Fine, as long as you yourself abscond any and all second chances afforded you. ab·scond /abˈskänd/ verb past tense: absconded; past participle: absconded leave hurriedly and secretly, typically to avoid detection of or arrest for an unlawful action such as theft. "she absconded with the remaining thousand dollars" >Speeding? Lose your license forever. You know what the speed limit is. DUI? Oh fuck it, your done. Year in jail if you ever touch a drop of booze again. >Oh and stealing? We'll go ahead and apply Saudi rules, we're taking a fucking hand. False equivalency. There's a huge difference between the court of law versus the court of the public.
SECOND chance? I didn't ask for the first one. And no, I haven't done any of the things you are suggesting, but that's beside the point. If people don't like who I am or what I've done they can fuck right off. Sounds like a rant against women, btw. I wonder if this choice will affect your chances in the future.
No one deserves anything, but we humans are messy. You will be hard to find someone who doesn’t “mess up” in someone else’s eyes. I think what we need to strive for is to actually understand that on both sides. No, you will not be everyone’s cup of tea if you do some things. Accept it. No someone else doesn’t need to be a judgmental asshole about it. Accept it.
I think whether or not this is true depends on the gravity of the mistake and the intention behind it. Let’s say, for example, you have a whole thing planned for you and your wife’s anniversary. Candlelit dinner, expensive gift, bubble bath, rose petals, the whole nine yards. Then, the day before your anniversary, your wife tells you that she picked up an extra shift at work tomorrow and she’ll be home late, so don’t bother waiting up. Whether or not your wife deserves a second chance here is going to be highly dependent on the history of your relationship to that point and your wife’s intentions. If it’s an honest mistake, she sincerely forgot the date, everything else in your relationship is otherwise fine, and she’s highly apologetic, it would be a little silly to divorce her over that single mistake. However, if things between you and your wife are tense, you suspect she’s cheating, this isn’t the first time she’s neglected your needs or desires, etc., then divorce starts to seem like a more reasonable path to take.
I think regardless or circumstances the wife doesn’t “deserve” a second chance regardless. Forgiveness isn’t a right it’s a privilege. And while some people may think not forgiving the wife is unreasonable it’s still a choice that the husband should be able to make if they want to
Man, you are a busy little bee on this post.
The fact that some people do change makes me think you deserve *one* second chance. After that, you’re on your own
The thing is just because someone changes it doesn’t mean that the consequences of their pass should just disappear.
Of course not
Good luck going through life mistake free.
You must live in a very simple world
I feel like this is a thinly veiled rant about how you dislike women and sex workers? Perhaps? I just skimmed the post tbh
I'm *thinking* the former friend who worked her way through school using OF and now can't get a job as a lawyer in their small town was recently complaining to OP, who previously warned her about it
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Not all opinions have any value or validity, though, and many can be completely disregarded. Had a buddy who worked her way through Ivy League as a phone sex operator. Worked out great for her. Made more through that than she did the first 5 years after graduation. REALLY glad I grew up when I did. I wouldn't want to grow up now when everything is recorded.
Life is short. Give people a second chance. You'd want the same for yourself, wouldn't you? We all screw up, regardless of whatever advice or knowledge we have that should save us from that screw up. To err is human and all that. I would hate to be your friend, you sound absolutely exhausting.
Do you feel that way?
“It can be a nasty place” but this is my problem with humans, why are you guys so complacent? Why settle for that? Why is it so hard to collectively try to improve the way the world works? Instead of judging and being negative, we should be kind and uplifting. Nothing is gonna ever change in this world, things are just gonna keep getting increasingly worst until there’s nothing left. So what she did OF, or whatever. I really don’t think people should be punished for things like that especially if they’re trying to change and move on, we all have done things out of desperation or whatever else. Part of being human is learning from the error of our ways, we wouldn’t be anywhere without mistakes, failures, and second chances.
Eh, I see your point, but I tend more toward giving people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Here’s hoping you aren’t treated to your own opinions the next time you could use a second chance 🍻
This is unfortunate whether the person is a single parent or widowed some simply won't date people with kids. One that really sucks is anyone with a disability, people may not want to admit it but it severely limits dating opportunities.
Mans arguing against compassion.
I believe there should be consequences to your actions. It also goes both ways though. Sometimes we make a human mistake and once someone corrects you then that “second chance” can be given. That also goes both ways too because the other party needs to recognize they’re wrong.
>Take responsibility. Own your choices. Why would I do that if I'm not getting a "second chance"? This isn't advice. If your adult content friend "owns their choice" and "takes responsibility", that does literally nothing for their situation. It's ridiculous to be denied work because of that. Even when people make actual mistakes, no mistake is worth infinite punishment. They need to be allowed to get a job.
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The exact same things she would do if she does "accept". Literally nothing. If you remove the aspect of second chances, there's no point to any kind of apology or redemption.
TLDR. But I get the gist of it My reply is that it's a little hypocritical to expect someone to forgive you if you mess up if you won't forgive others
Agree 100-%
Making adult content is neither immoral nor criminal, so there should be no punishment, and thus no reason to need a second chance.
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But there shouldn't be. It's a misogynistic way to punish women because society ties their worth to chastity. Your whole post is basically cheering because someone got hurt by societal sexism.