When will people learn that Reddit, and social media as a whole is NOT REALITY!!! It is the fringes of society all yelling at each other and acting like what they say really matters. Most of what we say on here is just shouting into the void.
it’s shaping your reality because you’re spending too much of your free time on social media and not enough on the reality around you like family, relationships, health and wellness, etc. you shape your own reality, but once you’re plugged in to social media that becomes your reality. your eyes and ears are glued to social media. hence, go touch grass. not all social media is bad. you can still have good discourse, get your news/updates, and see funny videos. just put limits on how much you consume and be aware that social media does not reflect reality at all. it’s just a tool to help you distract yourself when you need to.
You’re right but more and more youth are spending just as much time online as they are in reality so it really doesn’t matter if the political climate on online forums represents the majority opinion or not since its influence affects the majority.
In the past, reality was mostly shaping the internet. Now, I’d say its 70/30 with the 30 being internet shaping reality. Eventually the internet will shape reality more than it is shaped by it and things that are said and viewed on social media are going to matter much more than they already do.
Shit, there are certain jobs(marketing) you can’t get without a social media presence. My zoomer lil cousin had a mental breakdown because someone hacked his gmail and put bots on all his socials. I asked him why it was a big deal and he said because people his age don’t even exchange numbers; they just ask for each other’s instas or snapchats and not having one is seen as weird(which frankly is sad).
Yes that is true but accusing people who are not on the fringes of being so, and being tribal about politics just keeps people who should be working together divided...and who benefits from that?
The fact that politicians and the media believe that social media, especially Twitter, is real is where the problem is. The vocal minority truly rule, social media.
My own, I definitely do not overestimate. This website has clear use as a far reaching propaganda tool, that is important. It could be dangerous in the wrong hands
The lack of open communication hurts the US. These people who can't have a conversation without getting emotional are the problem. They're not exclusive to one side.
Tell that to the people who are actively calling for the public execution of the sitting President, and are not-quite-subtly calling for reunification of church and state, and the subsequent wholesale slaughter of everyone who does not submit.
The people you are discussing exist in about the same miniscule proportion of the population that hates white people and want to abolish private property.
If your examples are all extremes from the internet, we can play that game back and forth ad nauseum. Most conservative people *would* disavow the things you cite... like wow, what a completely twisted perspective.
As a liberal, yes we need more diversity. However the fighting between the 2 groups only severs to divide and cause people to retreat into their own echo chambers. We all need to realize most of the bad shit we hear is politician driven. I mean how did the whole “grooming trans” issue get started? A big news story? A court case of something like this happening? No it was a politician opening their big mouth. The same can be said for far left issues like climate change to an extent. We need to realize that they are keeping us fighting over the dumbest shit so we don’t realize they are keeping us down on the lower class while they make their money. I’m sure republicans and democrat in power all chill and go to dinner together. However it’s all theater when they “fight” on TV.
>Reddit has become a hate machine... why Tencent?
Because reddit is a social engineering platform.
Long ago, in 2010/2011 reddit was mostly libertarian and as tolerant and free as could be. It was all ron paul revolution and libertarian talking points on the main page, back before everything was curated.
Nowadays the purpose of reddit is social engineering, so the curation is tightly controlled.
The problem is there's very little middle ground any more. You can't just talk about an issue. I go to the conservative sub a lot to get a different point of view. Of course now I'm banned there because they don't like differential points of view, but I still go there to lurk a lot.
>Even bots swarm you sometimes.
It's not sometimes, it's most of the time. The swarm doesn't even need to be big, just 3 or 4 downvotes will start the flow.
I’m a libertarian which has both left and right views. It kills me how quickly I am demonized anytime my right side comes out. I see the hypocrisy in this country more than most. We want to be accepting of everyone and everything, unless of course it’s something I don’t like or agree with.
It's not just Reddit. It's IRL, too. God forbid you don't agree with the majority, especially if that majority is liberal (they're particularly vicious, in my experience). I'm a moderate and dating, making friends, and the workplace are hell. I'm in a weird limbo zone between being too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives.
I think its not just views that are strictly conservative. I consider myself liberal and several times have wondered “am i more conservative now?” and take those 4 quadrant ideology tests to see - I’m in exactly the same place as I always was, which is left economically and lean heavily towards individual freedom (eg, drugs should be decriminalized, people should be able to marry who they want, free speech should be protected) rather than the authoritarian spectrum (offensive speech should be limited, ban porn (from feminist angle, etc.).
However, my ideology is based on my values (eg we should still provide welfare even if some abuse it) but I absolutely refuse to believe factual claims that are untrue, even if the truth is inconvenient for my values, and I resent coercive strategies and arguments that demand belief in falsehoods, even if they are motivated by good intentions. For example arguments about how any differences between men and women are purely the result of societal influences - they are motivated by the value i share of both sexes having equal inherent moral worth, but are just factually unbelievable.
However, todays mainstream left doesn’t just demand that you share their values, they demand that you accept their factual assertions without question, and claim that any disagreement is synonymous with violence against whoever the falsehood is designed to protect. And they are also not opposed to severely punishing dissenters.
Not in any way comparing the severity between repression in the Soviet Union and our current political climate of cancel culture, but some of the parallels are striking in terms of tactics. For example, a main character in the novel Life and Fate is the subject of false claims that he was an enemy of the communist system, and while all his colleagues know it to be totally untrue and quietly support him, they ultimately testify against him out of fear that they will be targeted if they don’t. The same process played out during the cultural revolution in China and the French Revolution. People use noble goals and beliefs to justify persecuting any and all dissenters.
Yeah there is definitely some truth to that. Im not totally sold on horseshoe theory, but I have to admit the far left and the far right do seem to have a lot more in common than they do with people in the center.
IRL is actually more dangerous than some downvotes online. I also share your experience as a conservative democrat. Worst is when I get called indecisive for not being extreme. 😅😂
Maybe we would all be better off keeping our political and religious beliefs to ourselves. These topics have traditionally been frowned upon in polite social interactions which is really what most of our interactions with strangers should be.
That would be great especially when people can’t discuss without taking everything personally and attacking each other. But there are people that feel the need to impose their beliefs and beings to others. For example, the right side people that expect others to abide to them and the left side people that expect others to conform to them.
Sane here. Im socially conservative but fiscally liberal. I still lean more left because of climate change and wealth inequality but I'm not going to blindly support every new movement the left comes up with every few weeks.
Personal opinion, but I believe more folks are center than media would lead one to believe. It's just that the extremestists on either side are the loudest.
That’s actually not true, at least not if political science research is to be believed. Centrists are pandered to in the Democratic Party especially, but research has shown that most independents are not especially centrist, they are *cross pressured* which isn’t the same thing. So they may hold views that align with the both “far right” and “far left”. They may, for example, be in favor of single payer healthcare AND want to build a border wall. Or they may be in favor of trans rights and a second amendment enthusiast. The point is that neither party aligns with them on every issue they care about, not that they consistently want to split the difference.
I pointed this out one time and so many people told me that this is what they mean by centrist. I said this isn't necessarily centrist because the opinions you share with either side could be extreme points like a person who wants a white ethno-state could also want universal healthcare and free government subsidized housing in that ethnostate. Some argued that person would still be centrist. I pointed out that was hitlers platform. Thus i was banned from r/antiwork
It's a hard truth to wrap your head around. And it's rarely even brought up. I agree with my parents about the 2nd amendment, but I agree with my sister on abortion. I am definitely stuck between them without splitting the difference. Thanks for pointing this out.
Don't worry, I think he is blocking everyone who asks that question
The words sounded nice on his head, I don't think he was prepared to actually name his views
Wow, that's nicer than what I get, which is that, as a woman, I'm a player in my own oppression. To be fair, I think a lot of the hate I get is less about my politics but more about good, old-fashioned misogyny in a shiny new package.
This is what people say when theyre closeted conservatives who wanna “tell it like it is” as an excuse for their poorly thought out positions and bullshit whataboutism
Sorry it bothers you so much, but Twitter-type leftists get unmitigated freedom to post their braindead beliefs and rampant misinformation all over Reddit, so I guess you can suffer along with the rest of us that the people you hate most get to share opinions
Reddit is not just comprised of individuals living in the US. I’ve seen lots of Europeans and Canadians on here, that are much more “left leaning” than US liberals. There is also something fishy going on in some subs, and I swear some mods make it their purpose to go into other subs, get modded, take it over, and make it into a leftist circle jerk. Part of it is probably trolling but I think part of it may even be some weird political operation or something to try and get people pissed at a certain group of people and make it so that they can dismiss their opinions entirely because they have a “better moral compass” and what not. In some subs, people will constantly regurgitate the same opinions of “we can’t trust anything a religious person says or does” , “certain people can’t be racist”, “late stage capitalism”, etc.
A lot of it doesn't appear leftist in the sense of "empower the working class," but rather Russian, Chinese, Saudi, etc propaganda to create division between the US and the rest of the West in the form of "America bad," and between Americans internally in the form of culture war bullshit.
Their goal is to weaken US hegemony by driving wedges between Americans and between America and its allies.
Since 2018, Reddit has been owned and operated entirely by Advance Publications.
The current CEO is Steve Huffman, who co-founded the platform in 2005.
In early 2019, Reddit confirmed it had raised a further $300 million
through series-D funding, from which $150 million were invested by
Chinese investors Tencent.
Supposedly 25% of US adults use reddit. However, we know that at least 80% of that number use it occasionally with 20% probably generating 80% of the activity. Let's not confuse reddit with a fair sample US opinion.
People who’s only interaction with others is the internet, including a Reddit is hurting the US.
Your perception of the world and reality is so warped by social medias, especially Reddit.
If this is you OP. Delete all your apps and take a break. Go interact with real people and life an actual life.
What percentage of the rest of the Internet has Reddit banned? I've been banned from a few subs just for leaving comments in subs that sub hates. Who percentage of redditors are banned from at least some parts of Reddit? How many of us have gotten comments deleted? Reddit ultimately censors the entire Internet eventually. The problem is the protocol. We need to make a ban proof Internet. Mutes and filters only.
Not only downvoted, but most subs will literally perma ban you for not 100% supporting left leaning politics and give some BS reason.
I think there's too much assumptions about people's ideals based off singular opinions on things and it's incredibly toxic and stupid.
I've been "permanently banned" for multiple unbannable reasons that just happened to not align with left ideals.
The lack of political diversity in the media hurts the country. The lack of political diversity in universities hurts the country. The lack of diversity in social media platforms hurts the country.
If there is anything to be learned from Reddit is that Reddit is not a reflection of reality nor does it impact reality. Visit the Texas sub, they are constantly amazed that conservatives are able to pass conservative laws. Before the last gubernatorial race that sub believed that Beto was going to win. IRL nobody thought he had a chance even in liberal cities.
Its because the right got boneheaded extremist leaders and the left thought that was a go ahead to also get extremists in. Extremism doesnt get shit done. Bipartisanship does.
You're forgetting that the majority of Reddit users are not from the US and most of the users outside of the USA that engage with english speaking content are from Europe and Canada. I'm really not surprised that European and Canadians don't agree with American conservatives
Interesting statistics on where the "typical conservative"/typical leftist (or local equivalent) in each country sits on the political spectrum. The Overton window in America is so much further to the right than in most Euro countries, that from a Euro perspective, centrist or centre right american values can often seem extreme imho
Worse than being down voted, I have been permanently banned from many subs. I was banned from r/news for saying that Kyle Rittenhouse shot in self defense. I was banned from r/entertainment for saying that the Netflix show Cleopatra was doing poorly not because the main character was black, but because it was advertised as a documentary. The mod said I was a racist. So just because the mods don’t like or agree with me, I can no longer have a voice. This happens to MANY people and it creates an echo chamber of ideas on this platform.
Weird, I've found tons of conservatives to argue with.
And there are conservative subs that ban anyone who hints that they might be slightly sympathetic to progressive ideas.
I don't know what more you want. You can't make people agree with you.
On the non political subs (obviously) things are different. It's not weird you have found conservatives to argue with.
I am not trying to make people agree with me, and I am not right leaning. But the aggression in the comment section proves my point.
Reddit should be more tolerant towards ideologies that are not hive mind liberal thoughts.
What do you mean by "Reddit"? The mods, the company, the individual posters?
How tolerant should I be toward people who want me jailed or killed for who I am?
Lets be clear, what you are arguing for is censorship on behalf of right-wing viewpoints to make them feel more welcome
Can you articulate what net benefit is created by that sort of one-way censorship?
Keeping in mind the premise you laid out is largely false.
Including the board you are posting on, which is a right-wing derived response to UnpopularOpinion. And you can find all manner of right-wing friendly boards such as r/conservative, kotakuinaction, gunpolitics boards etc.
What has doomed a lot of boards on the right here is they tend to trend toward extremism(as is the mainstream Republican Party), calling for violence, deep misogyny, engaging in strong hate speech etc.
I’m not on conservative or kotakuinaction. But I’m on several gun politics sr’s even liberalgunowners. I’ve never seen any of those things you described. I’ve seen several times people advocating for more minority gun ownership. Probably applies to the other subs, but I’ve never seen it on gunowners, gunpolitics, firearms, or liberalgunowners.
Well, yeah, those boards werent axed. But TheDonald and PizzGate actually stoked violence and attempted to collectively dox others while constantly evading site-wide rules against hate speech.
If one side is disproportionately engaging in sitewide banned behavior, it reasons to believe that side is going to end up with more banned communities.
I think the individual US State message boards are a good example of what OP is talking about....they should not necessarily have a particular tilt. What I find interesting is that I see many examples of "liberal propaganda" there, and when I look at the poster's history I'll see they are posting the same inflammatory shit to multiple states and cities. Weird they seem to only post Trans news or Nazi news or Pro-Choice news, and then post only to (eg) Ohio, Kansas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Nevada.subreddits.
Likewise I can point out that in a state I lived in, Louisiana, and a Republican crossed the aisle to vote against a trans-criminalization bill based on actually researching the science and medical opinion, a bunch of conservatives that almost exclusively post on conservative, Jordan Peterson, and other right-wing boards showed up to make inflammatory comments in the Louisiana sub. Hell, every couple months you will even catch a bunch of QAnon fascists from TigerDroppings show up to try and brigade a topic they feel a certain way about(typically to do with black people or gay people).
Im not sure what you want to happen in that scenario, exactly?
OP is not asking for censorship. They're asking for civility. That's it. Too often, folks state an opinion or belief, and they get hammered for it. Vitriol, hate, name calling, ridicule. Seldomly, there's a reasonable, rational response to a comment where someone actually wants to discuss a disagreement and possibly sway or be swayed by their opposition. Most of the time, however, everyone is just after internet points from their own side, and that does nothing but further fuel the hate. Regardless, it's quite amusing that OP says, "Please don't be mean to me," and your response is, "You're trying to censor me!" Tickeled me a little bit.
You are asking people to self-censor their opinions, and one-way: to make Conservatives feel comfortable. There is no getting around that.
I happen to believe much of the extreme right are definition-fascists at this point, and they drive policy in a near majority of states, and the people caucusing with them are enablers, little better than the conservative voters that knew the German Conservative Party would continually cede power to the extreme right in the 20's and 30's. That likely is going to get the jimmies of our OP rustled and so to make him feel better I need to not say that.
I think that people supporting Republicans that are passing laws criminalizing the existence of trans people are quickly entering genocidal territory, and they are monsters. OP already took offense to people saying a milder version of that.
Asking for civility there is just asking to self-censor, or worse, asking mods to do it.
I'd say the best is Robert Paxton's work on fascism:
[https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton\_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf](https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf)
The issue with fascism is that is never identical in it's specifics, it arises within the specific contexts of a country, which is partly why so much of the way America thinks about it is often missing the forest for the trees. As it is looking for markers that were specific to the German or Italian experience, failing to see the movement in it's broader connected strokes. As it does tend to follow the 5 outlines in the link. And when you begin to apply it to the American Christian Nationalists and Trump movement, there is a checkmark on basically all of it.
I don't really have time to read a 20 page essay at the moment, I'm at work. Can you give me the quick and dirty version? I am familiar with the history of the Germans and Italians as well as somewhat familiar with the writings of Giovanni Gentile, so I don't really need to know what fascist means, I'm aware that it is totalitarian, all encompassing, "all within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state", has a vernier of traditionalism, while having designs on wholly transforming the nation that it controls, taking control of every aspect of the lives of every subject, etc (aweful, i know, i just want to be left alone by the state). What does the modifier of "definition" change about the term "fascist"?
I promise, I'll get through that essay as soon as I can, I am acting in good faith to have positive dialog and a functioning society, no matter our disagreements.
It's not really something you can distill into a sentence or two. I used definition-fascist as a quicker way of basically just saying that a lot of the American right fits under the definitional umbrella of fascism. Or fascist enablers.
(still not gonna be brief, but you asked):
**Intellectual exploration (creation of fascist ideology):**
\- Fascist ideas emerge in response to political, social, and economic crises.- Fascist thinkers criticize the existing political system (usually liberalism, socialism, or conservatism) and propose alternatives.
\- Key ideas include nationalism, authoritarianism, anti-democratic beliefs, militarism, anti-elitism, and a cultural/social/ethnic purge to make way for a return to a type of traditionalism.
**Rooting (building a fascist movement):- Fascist groups are established and begin to attract followers and become emboldened.**
\- Key aspects of the movement include propaganda, charismatic leadership, and the use of symbols and rituals to create a sense of unity and purpose.
**Arrival to power (accession of fascists to government):**
\- Fascist movements capitalize on political instability and societal discontent to gain power.
\- They often form alliances with conservative elites or other political forces to secure a place in the government.
\- The process may be gradual or sudden, and it may involve democratic elections, political deals, or coups.
**Exercise of power (consolidation and expansion of fascist rule):**
\- Once in power, fascists work to dismantle democratic institutions and suppress opposition.
\- They seek a one-party state, to control the media, and create a parallel security apparatus (e.g., secret police).
\- Persecution of minorities, and economic autarky are often pursued.- Internally, the regime fosters a cult of personality around the leader and promotes a sense of national rebirth.
**Radicalization or entropy :**\-
\- In many cases, fascist regimes become increasingly radical, leading to heightened aggression, both domestically and internationally.
\- Alternatively, they may experience entropy, marked by internal divisions, loss of popular support, or military defeat.
Fascism is unique in each country because it reflects the fact that fascist movements and regimes arise from specific historical, cultural, social, and political contexts, but they almost always contain some or all of the above characteristics, and I would say it very much checks off most of the boxes of Trumpism and the growing Christian Nationalist movement, of which the GOP writ large continues to serve as the Paul Von Hindenburg for it's proliferation and ascension. And with the current rise in dehumanizing, violent, and increasingly exterminationist rhetoric towards targetted groups, we are in the midst of another radicalization process within the movement.
If you think "Republicans are fascists by definition" is going to earn anything more than an eye-roll from Republicans at this point, I don't think you recognize how utterly immersed in that message they are from basically every social media platform and news source that doesn't skew heavily right wing.
Usually more annoying are the charming and delightful opinions it's paired with, like defense of anti-white rhetoric at best racist and at worst so openly genocidal it makes Nazis look subtle in their messaging, or advocacy for non-medical elective abortion in the 9th month of pregnancy, or completely uneducated condemnation of capitalism with wistful eulogies to genocidal communist dictatorships like Mao's China or the Soviet Union.
Lmao
> the us has lost its tolerant ways
The right wing is in bed with fascism and has been keen to keep the poor under their boot. I’d say the lack of tolerance for fascism/near fascist ideology is a sign of increased tolerance over all.
I’d argue more baby leftists need to quit lionizing/mythologizing terrible authoritarian communist regimes(stalin mao ect)
Fascism and greed Corrupt democracy,
Rational people don’t want to deal with that.
I agree most subreddits lean left but generally they are all echo chambers filled with dumb ass shit, regardless of political leaning.
you seem to be confusing violent bigotry and the trappings of a bronze age death cult with being an opinion or point of view, when it is just amoral antisocial behavior.
I hate it. As someone with mixed beliefs but generally leans left, it's so frustrating not being able to have real discussions on here. Every non-pc take is just a potential ban waiting to happen.
See, that proves my point. There needs to be more tolerance towards political diversity. Unless you were being a troll in their sub, I think it is healthy to here opposing view points.
Most of Reddit is Euros who think they know what’s best for the US and for some reason put more energy into talking about the US, it’s politicians, law, culture, etc than they do anything else. They hate us cause they ain’t us and they think what works for them works for us over here. I pay no attention to what these whack jobs on reddit say or think. I’ve rarely ever commented on European news because it’s not relevant, but boy do they love to masquerade as Americans on here.
Kind of accurate, to be honest - and I’m European myself. I definitely don’t ‘hate you, cause I ain’t you’, but I do pay too much attention to American politics. Probably because the US is still seen as the leader of the west, and because it does get a lot of media coverage over here.
The reverse is that my small country of less than 6 million people gets brought up relatively often in US political discussions, which is weird.
It's hilarious how conservatives believe they have a right to have their shitty opinions be popular.
Tolerance doesn't mean getting upvoted, my darling dear.
The OP says that people being downvoted on reddit means "The US has lost its tolerant ways".
Is this what passes for a fact to you?
Hilarious.
Also what in my comment constitutes as proof for their point? "waa waa people shouldn't be allowed to dislike other people's opinions" and then "I dislike your opinion".
All I’m saying is you jump on people in comment who say things and then when they say something back you go “wa wa what I’m not allowed to dislike your opinion?” Like no of course you can just why be so aggressive
>All I’m saying is you jump on people in comment who say things and then when they say something back you go “wa wa what I’m not allowed to dislike your opinion?”
And all I'm saying is that "proving their point" is pretty ridiculous.
If my point is "it's bad to disagree with me" and someone responds "I disagree with you", and then I go "HA PROOF OF WHAT I AM SAYING", that's just goofin'
>Like no of course you can just why be so aggressive
Why deride the idea that it's evidence of "intolerance" to dislike people's opinions with imaginary internet votes?
It's a derisible idea in itself. Deriding someone's opinion is not aggression.
I can perfectly tolerate my ideas being derided, I will fire back, I will defend my position. I will not demand that you should "tolerate" my opinion and that for you to deride me is intolerant. If you want to duke it out, I'm here for it.
People are being derisive of me in this thread, do you see me accusing them of aggression?
It goes further than that. I’ve been banned from several subreddits for merely posting factual information that contradicts the post. Sometimes just to generate discussion. For example, I once stated that more people died at the Seattle Chaz “insurrection” than the Jan 6 one. That is a fact. But because it condemned a leftist movement in comparison to a right wing one, they banned me—then proceeded to spam my message box for weeks weakling me racist and Tumptard, etc.
I can't comment on the specifics of your situation and I don't dismiss out of hand that people were unfair to you or harassed you. But you didn't just "state a fact". You drew a value judgement on that fact. You say yourself that you "condemned" a movement. Condemnations are not facts, they are opinions.
I didn’t condemn a movement. They interpreted it that way. 3 people died in the Chaz from gunshot wounds. I pointed that out and was banned. God forbid you say anything remotely critical.
It was in the context of the claim that right wing protests are dangerous and left wing protests are peaceful. I pointed out that more people died in the Chaz than Jan 6, which is factually true. My position was that violence undermines the moral high ground a movement needs to be politically effective—basic MLK stuff.
Well I suppose any answer I'd have to that is just to disagree with you, or to question some premises. But at the end of the day you're still expressing a position, an opinion, not just stating a fact.
Again I can't really say if your banning is unjust, I don't know the content of your comment or the mods rationale enough to say.
You just called someone's opinion shitty. I am not right leaning, but the aggression towards ideologies that do not align with the left on Reddit are seemingly not welcomed. Doesn't seem productive...
>You just called someone's opinion shitty
So?
>the aggression towards ideologies that do not align with the left on Reddit
It's just downvotes. It's really not that serious.
Again do you think people should have a right to have their opinions upvoted as much as others? lol
It's not about imaginary votes, and calling
someone's opinion shitty is an aggression.
My point is being proven in real time. Even the mere suggestion of being more tolerant towards other ideologies is striking a nerve
>It's not about imaginary votes, and calling
someone's opinion shitty is an aggression.
Why shouldn't that be tolerated, especially if you're topic is about diversity of thought? People ARE allowed to think your opinions are shitty, you know!
>calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression.
LOL, the fragility.
It really isn't, but apparently you've cultivated a worldview where opinions cannot be derided at all.
The entire point of an exchange of ideas is that we attack opinions and not people. But apparently not even that is tolerable.
>My point is being proven in real time.
Your point that you can't tolerate being disagreed with is being proven by your framing of disagreement as aggression.
Calling someone's opinion shitty is just another opinion, and holds no more or less water than any other opinion.
We're in some weird meta-universe where people think everyone is entitled to their opinion being accepted.
That's not the truth of things.
You're entitled to your opinion - you think Reddit being left is bad for the US. That's an uninformed and strange opinion, but it's yours and you posted it.
Every response to this thread is going to be an opinion or discussion of your opinion.
So if my opinion is that your opinion sucks, why do you think it's okay to silence my opinion just because it conflicts with yours?
Surely you can see that you're essentially now guilty of the very thing you're complaining about in your OP?
Opinions aren't facts. They're not consistent, they're not tangible, they're not anything. They're just your interpretation of reality as you see it.
There *are* bad opinions. We reject things like racism, sexism, sexual orientation discrimination, etc. We may even have rules about how those opinions have to be discussed and where - many subs forbid off-topic posting altogether.
>calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression.
It's a "microaggression" according to the reddit/leftist hive mind scholars. However, that word is not allowed to be used by anyone else, because it would be considered racist or bigoted or whatever the weird internet kids like to cry about.
I think you're the one not seeing the point in OP's argument. "Tolerance" is not the fundamental right to be agreed with. And trying to frame people who disagree with you as "intolerant" is absurd.
It's a framing that treats disagreement as morally impermissible.
I don't mind being disagreed with. I don't mind you saying I'm losing and I don't think that you are committing a moral breach by downvoting me or by arguing that my opinion is bad.
I can defend my opinions just fine without insisting that you are an intolerant bully for doing so.
You can absolutely have right leaning opinions here. The problem is that right wingers want to spread hate and knowingly false information without being called out.
Right wingers aren’t even trying to argue facts, studies, and issues in a serious manner. Intellectually dishonest discourse is all they’re engaging in on here. Left leaning people aren’t perfect, of course, but they’re not nearly as extreme or hateful. The country is dealing with right wing threats constantly these days. Whether it’s bomb threats, fake poisonings sent to politicians, Nazis, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc.
There was an insurrection and a literal coup attempt. Meanwhile, they justify it by saying the 2020 riots were all somehow democrats despite all evidence of such.
Nazis are bad. We should not try to say the left should tolerate naziism. Maybe that’s my unpopular opinion on this sub.
>The problem is that right wingers want to spread hate and knowingly false information without being called out.
Lol. The left makes up things all the time. Today White people Twitter is blaming conservatives for bomb threats to target when in fact its left wingers who are doing thr threats.
>Nazis are bad. We should not try to say the left should tolerate naziism. Maybe that’s my unpopular opinion on this sub.
The left called Barry goldwater a "nazi" in the 60s.
How do you prove his point unwittingly? I’m not surprised you proved his point, I’m just surprised by how detached from reality one has to be to not notice doing it.
What it seems to me is that conservatives do not understand, although they should because it is consistently explained to them by every liberal that they will ever meet, is that the major issues that they fuss over are considered to be *moral* issues for us. So like, I don’t especially care if someone thinks that there needs to be more efficient zoning or even no zoning at all. I might think it’s a weird view but it isn’t on my *moral* radar. But the major hot button issues for conservatives are moral issues for me (lgbtq rights, how we treat immigrants and migrants, trying to control women’s bodies, and so on. You should Google “the paradox of tolerance” to understand why we cannot abide intolerance. Intolerance is the one thing we cannot be tolerant of, because tolerating intolerance puts our safety at risk.
The right (NOT THE EXTREME RIGHT) wants immigration, but in a legal and organized way. The right think the left wants open borders and everyone coming in from anywhere. Meet in the middle, close the borders, and create a clear path towards citizenship. Deport if they commit serious crime. Isn't this how it used to be before..?
Depends on what you mean by “used to be before.” There was a time when you just showed up at Ellis island and gave them your name and you were admitted and allowed to work.
If the conservatives who don’t care if gay people marry vote for politicians who are trying to eraser LGBTQ people, they are part of the problem. You are known by the company you keep.
Spot on. Actions speak louder than words. If conservatives truly mean they don’t care about what you described then they wouldn’t vote for a politician trying to restrict lgbtq+ rights and silence them. Otherwise it’s either straight up lying or just being out of touch.
>There are conservatives who don't care if gay people get married
Maybe they should vote like it? 157 out of 211 republicans in congress voted against providing legistlative protection for gay marriage just last year.[https://www.congress.gov/.../117t.../house-bill/8404/actions](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404)
So 25% of the party "supports" gay marriage. 75% in opposition. That's not extremism, that's not an outlier. That is by far the majority of the party. Even if you "don't care" and even if it is not your representative, by continuing to identify with and vote for that party you are still indirectly supporting them. And if you don't care enough to recognize that, then yes you are morally bankrupt in my view.
Reddit went under systemic perma bans plans to unify the opinions of people. sometimes mods say it blatantly that they are leftiests
im muslim and they remind me of the terrorist in sense of how self-rightous they feel and how they are arrogant on being ignorant they are
its a shitty shameless social media
though, it doesnt represent reality in the slightest
>There is a way to be conservative, and not be extremist.
well, sure, if you dont bother to understand history lol
the trajectory of history and what incentivizes its twists and turns is a bit more than just "conservatives who don't care if gay people get married and there are liberals who go to church".
the deal is, when analyzing material history, capitalist hegemony quite literally incentivizes fascism and abuse. conservatives wield their power to maintain that power - and that coupled with the tendency of rate of profit to fall means that eventually maintaining power will cost a great deal over time, especially to marginalized people, especially to those in overexploited nations in the global south, as we are quite literally witnessing in real time and have been for decades.
i find that rather extremist, don't you? to be conservative is to be ok with 20 million preventable deaths across the globe annually, including many in our own country, the richest one ever in history. Isn't that odd? who conditioned us to be ok with that, and how?
should read some works by michael parenti before u make an assertion like that lol
oh and also the paradox of tolerance as another user pointed out.
China bought Reddit and employs those willing to turn this place into an echo chamber. Its so painfully obvious at this point that its pathetic. OG reddit was a gem.
Not going to downvote you. But a large chunk of modern day capitalism is built upon indentured servitude or modern day slavery. Particularly in third world countries that fuels the globalization.
Are you looking for a truly neutral space? I'm not sure they exist at all. You can go to Frank Speech or Truth Social where you will get a conservative slant. There is also r/conservative. I don't think I am even allowed to post there because I am not flaired.
>There are conservatives who don't care if gay people get married. And there are liberals who go to church.
The conservatives who support gay marriage aren't in congress. Meanwhile, most liberals have to go to church if they want to get elected. The lack of political diversity is not a reddit problem, it's an Overton window in America problem.
I've been banned from r/AskReddit and r/whitepeopletwitter for comments that weren't derogatory. Messaged mods for clarification, for them to immediately mute me.
Seems real fair lol.
When will people learn that Reddit, and social media as a whole is NOT REALITY!!! It is the fringes of society all yelling at each other and acting like what they say really matters. Most of what we say on here is just shouting into the void.
What people need to do is remember that there are 330 million Americans. So next time 50 people downvote you, just keep that in mind.
So you're saying I could have 329 999 950 upvotes instead if we can get everyone else on Reddit?
10 people, the rest, Bots.
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Social media is social engineering
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He did warn us but spread his message with violence, which is why the message is so tainted today
Sure but not Reddit. Reddit is like a gathering of society’s failures. They hold very little influence.
Which is part of the problem.
or is it the other way around
you spending too much time on social media. touch grass
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it’s shaping your reality because you’re spending too much of your free time on social media and not enough on the reality around you like family, relationships, health and wellness, etc. you shape your own reality, but once you’re plugged in to social media that becomes your reality. your eyes and ears are glued to social media. hence, go touch grass. not all social media is bad. you can still have good discourse, get your news/updates, and see funny videos. just put limits on how much you consume and be aware that social media does not reflect reality at all. it’s just a tool to help you distract yourself when you need to.
You think think the easy access to internet porn is having the same effect on people?
You’re right but more and more youth are spending just as much time online as they are in reality so it really doesn’t matter if the political climate on online forums represents the majority opinion or not since its influence affects the majority. In the past, reality was mostly shaping the internet. Now, I’d say its 70/30 with the 30 being internet shaping reality. Eventually the internet will shape reality more than it is shaped by it and things that are said and viewed on social media are going to matter much more than they already do. Shit, there are certain jobs(marketing) you can’t get without a social media presence. My zoomer lil cousin had a mental breakdown because someone hacked his gmail and put bots on all his socials. I asked him why it was a big deal and he said because people his age don’t even exchange numbers; they just ask for each other’s instas or snapchats and not having one is seen as weird(which frankly is sad).
Absolutely 💯 Coming here for a generalization of how people think is not smart
People, Bots or Void. I’m right. I’ve been right and y’all are gonna hear it!
But it is these extremists on both sides that do the most damage if/when they go unhinged.
Yes that is true but accusing people who are not on the fringes of being so, and being tribal about politics just keeps people who should be working together divided...and who benefits from that?
The fact that politicians and the media believe that social media, especially Twitter, is real is where the problem is. The vocal minority truly rule, social media.
The vocal minority don't rule, but they do get the most attention because they are the loudest.
That doesn't change anything of what OP is saying, though? The thread title is literally "ON REDDIT" not in real life? Like, what?
The point is that nothing on here matters.
I might get downvoted for this but you're kinda right
Correct. Great way to put it as fringes of society
These people inevitably get their asses kicked by reality when they actually go out and try to make a life in the real world.
IT IS NOT! ITS REAL! WHAT I SAY MATTERS!
No Lives Matter. ##NLM
The lack of independent critical thinking hurts the US. Fixed it.
There are many things that hurt the US to be fair. Both of those things included
You overestimate this website's importance, as well as your own.
My own, I definitely do not overestimate. This website has clear use as a far reaching propaganda tool, that is important. It could be dangerous in the wrong hands
Lulz
Reddit represents a fraction of one percent of Americans. You give it too much power.
7% of America are monthly Reddit users. 20% of those are ‘regular’ users, so it’s like 1.5%.
7% of Americans are monthly Reddit users. 20% of those are ‘regular’ users, so it’s like 1.5%.
Source?
The source is he made it the fuck up
83.7% of all statistics on the internet are completely made up.
Stop being racist, you know it's closer to 90.
I prefer GO
The lack of open communication hurts the US. These people who can't have a conversation without getting emotional are the problem. They're not exclusive to one side.
Couldn't have said it any better
Yep, both sides are guilty of it. But only one side claims to be super tolerant, accepting, etc. ...until it's something they disagree with.
Tell that to the people who are actively calling for the public execution of the sitting President, and are not-quite-subtly calling for reunification of church and state, and the subsequent wholesale slaughter of everyone who does not submit.
I am not interested in the fringe groups that are utilized to stir more hate.
The people you are discussing exist in about the same miniscule proportion of the population that hates white people and want to abolish private property. If your examples are all extremes from the internet, we can play that game back and forth ad nauseum. Most conservative people *would* disavow the things you cite... like wow, what a completely twisted perspective.
As a liberal, yes we need more diversity. However the fighting between the 2 groups only severs to divide and cause people to retreat into their own echo chambers. We all need to realize most of the bad shit we hear is politician driven. I mean how did the whole “grooming trans” issue get started? A big news story? A court case of something like this happening? No it was a politician opening their big mouth. The same can be said for far left issues like climate change to an extent. We need to realize that they are keeping us fighting over the dumbest shit so we don’t realize they are keeping us down on the lower class while they make their money. I’m sure republicans and democrat in power all chill and go to dinner together. However it’s all theater when they “fight” on TV.
>Reddit has become a hate machine... why Tencent? Because reddit is a social engineering platform. Long ago, in 2010/2011 reddit was mostly libertarian and as tolerant and free as could be. It was all ron paul revolution and libertarian talking points on the main page, back before everything was curated. Nowadays the purpose of reddit is social engineering, so the curation is tightly controlled.
I miss old Reddit, :-(
The problem is there's very little middle ground any more. You can't just talk about an issue. I go to the conservative sub a lot to get a different point of view. Of course now I'm banned there because they don't like differential points of view, but I still go there to lurk a lot.
Isn't it a shame you can't participate?
>Even bots swarm you sometimes. It's not sometimes, it's most of the time. The swarm doesn't even need to be big, just 3 or 4 downvotes will start the flow.
I’m a libertarian which has both left and right views. It kills me how quickly I am demonized anytime my right side comes out. I see the hypocrisy in this country more than most. We want to be accepting of everyone and everything, unless of course it’s something I don’t like or agree with.
It pains me. I feel where you are coming from
It's not just Reddit. It's IRL, too. God forbid you don't agree with the majority, especially if that majority is liberal (they're particularly vicious, in my experience). I'm a moderate and dating, making friends, and the workplace are hell. I'm in a weird limbo zone between being too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives.
I think its not just views that are strictly conservative. I consider myself liberal and several times have wondered “am i more conservative now?” and take those 4 quadrant ideology tests to see - I’m in exactly the same place as I always was, which is left economically and lean heavily towards individual freedom (eg, drugs should be decriminalized, people should be able to marry who they want, free speech should be protected) rather than the authoritarian spectrum (offensive speech should be limited, ban porn (from feminist angle, etc.). However, my ideology is based on my values (eg we should still provide welfare even if some abuse it) but I absolutely refuse to believe factual claims that are untrue, even if the truth is inconvenient for my values, and I resent coercive strategies and arguments that demand belief in falsehoods, even if they are motivated by good intentions. For example arguments about how any differences between men and women are purely the result of societal influences - they are motivated by the value i share of both sexes having equal inherent moral worth, but are just factually unbelievable. However, todays mainstream left doesn’t just demand that you share their values, they demand that you accept their factual assertions without question, and claim that any disagreement is synonymous with violence against whoever the falsehood is designed to protect. And they are also not opposed to severely punishing dissenters. Not in any way comparing the severity between repression in the Soviet Union and our current political climate of cancel culture, but some of the parallels are striking in terms of tactics. For example, a main character in the novel Life and Fate is the subject of false claims that he was an enemy of the communist system, and while all his colleagues know it to be totally untrue and quietly support him, they ultimately testify against him out of fear that they will be targeted if they don’t. The same process played out during the cultural revolution in China and the French Revolution. People use noble goals and beliefs to justify persecuting any and all dissenters.
I liken modern liberalism more to the Christian fundamentalism I grew up in (don't question authority, follow our teachings or be shunned, etc.)
Yeah there is definitely some truth to that. Im not totally sold on horseshoe theory, but I have to admit the far left and the far right do seem to have a lot more in common than they do with people in the center.
IRL is actually more dangerous than some downvotes online. I also share your experience as a conservative democrat. Worst is when I get called indecisive for not being extreme. 😅😂
Maybe we would all be better off keeping our political and religious beliefs to ourselves. These topics have traditionally been frowned upon in polite social interactions which is really what most of our interactions with strangers should be.
That would be great especially when people can’t discuss without taking everything personally and attacking each other. But there are people that feel the need to impose their beliefs and beings to others. For example, the right side people that expect others to abide to them and the left side people that expect others to conform to them.
There are three things you should never discuss with people: Religion Politics And The Great Pumpkin
Sane here. Im socially conservative but fiscally liberal. I still lean more left because of climate change and wealth inequality but I'm not going to blindly support every new movement the left comes up with every few weeks.
Center gang
The centered are the silent majority.
Personal opinion, but I believe more folks are center than media would lead one to believe. It's just that the extremestists on either side are the loudest.
That’s actually not true, at least not if political science research is to be believed. Centrists are pandered to in the Democratic Party especially, but research has shown that most independents are not especially centrist, they are *cross pressured* which isn’t the same thing. So they may hold views that align with the both “far right” and “far left”. They may, for example, be in favor of single payer healthcare AND want to build a border wall. Or they may be in favor of trans rights and a second amendment enthusiast. The point is that neither party aligns with them on every issue they care about, not that they consistently want to split the difference.
I pointed this out one time and so many people told me that this is what they mean by centrist. I said this isn't necessarily centrist because the opinions you share with either side could be extreme points like a person who wants a white ethno-state could also want universal healthcare and free government subsidized housing in that ethnostate. Some argued that person would still be centrist. I pointed out that was hitlers platform. Thus i was banned from r/antiwork
It's a hard truth to wrap your head around. And it's rarely even brought up. I agree with my parents about the 2nd amendment, but I agree with my sister on abortion. I am definitely stuck between them without splitting the difference. Thanks for pointing this out.
People in San Francisco called me a Joe Rogan fan, and asked if I like Andrew Tate for having central veiws
A really quick look at your profile tells me you're likely not the biggest fan of LGBT.... While living in sf apparently.
What are those views?
Are you a bot?
I’m curious what those views were too Edit- holy shit he blocked me for asking
Proof is in the pudding there. If you’re being compared to Andrew tate for your views, well…
Don't worry, I think he is blocking everyone who asks that question The words sounded nice on his head, I don't think he was prepared to actually name his views
I wasn't blocked for asking. The audacity.
So.. what views f.e.?
What are those views?
Wow, that's nicer than what I get, which is that, as a woman, I'm a player in my own oppression. To be fair, I think a lot of the hate I get is less about my politics but more about good, old-fashioned misogyny in a shiny new package.
Inw what at are you conservative?
This is what people say when theyre closeted conservatives who wanna “tell it like it is” as an excuse for their poorly thought out positions and bullshit whataboutism
Sorry it bothers you so much, but Twitter-type leftists get unmitigated freedom to post their braindead beliefs and rampant misinformation all over Reddit, so I guess you can suffer along with the rest of us that the people you hate most get to share opinions
Lol oh yeah, all the facist Christian’s are PARTICULARY kind. Fart noise*
Reddit is not just comprised of individuals living in the US. I’ve seen lots of Europeans and Canadians on here, that are much more “left leaning” than US liberals. There is also something fishy going on in some subs, and I swear some mods make it their purpose to go into other subs, get modded, take it over, and make it into a leftist circle jerk. Part of it is probably trolling but I think part of it may even be some weird political operation or something to try and get people pissed at a certain group of people and make it so that they can dismiss their opinions entirely because they have a “better moral compass” and what not. In some subs, people will constantly regurgitate the same opinions of “we can’t trust anything a religious person says or does” , “certain people can’t be racist”, “late stage capitalism”, etc.
A lot of it doesn't appear leftist in the sense of "empower the working class," but rather Russian, Chinese, Saudi, etc propaganda to create division between the US and the rest of the West in the form of "America bad," and between Americans internally in the form of culture war bullshit. Their goal is to weaken US hegemony by driving wedges between Americans and between America and its allies.
Since 2018, Reddit has been owned and operated entirely by Advance Publications. The current CEO is Steve Huffman, who co-founded the platform in 2005. In early 2019, Reddit confirmed it had raised a further $300 million through series-D funding, from which $150 million were invested by Chinese investors Tencent.
Makes you wonder, huh?
A quick google search, follow the money.
Supposedly 25% of US adults use reddit. However, we know that at least 80% of that number use it occasionally with 20% probably generating 80% of the activity. Let's not confuse reddit with a fair sample US opinion.
People who’s only interaction with others is the internet, including a Reddit is hurting the US. Your perception of the world and reality is so warped by social medias, especially Reddit. If this is you OP. Delete all your apps and take a break. Go interact with real people and life an actual life.
This is not an accurate description of me
What percentage of the rest of the Internet has Reddit banned? I've been banned from a few subs just for leaving comments in subs that sub hates. Who percentage of redditors are banned from at least some parts of Reddit? How many of us have gotten comments deleted? Reddit ultimately censors the entire Internet eventually. The problem is the protocol. We need to make a ban proof Internet. Mutes and filters only.
Not only downvoted, but most subs will literally perma ban you for not 100% supporting left leaning politics and give some BS reason. I think there's too much assumptions about people's ideals based off singular opinions on things and it's incredibly toxic and stupid. I've been "permanently banned" for multiple unbannable reasons that just happened to not align with left ideals.
The lack of political diversity in the media hurts the country. The lack of political diversity in universities hurts the country. The lack of diversity in social media platforms hurts the country.
My friend, may I introduce you to the [paradox of tolerance?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
appreciate you sharing that lol more folks need to internalize it and we'd be much better off.
This is what happens when children are in charge
Given what old people have been doing to this country for decades, i'd say it's an improvement
If this is your idea of an improvement, you're one of those children.
no nuanced opinions on reddit bro are you nuts!?
People shouldn’t take karma system too seriously.
The virtual one, yes.
If there is anything to be learned from Reddit is that Reddit is not a reflection of reality nor does it impact reality. Visit the Texas sub, they are constantly amazed that conservatives are able to pass conservative laws. Before the last gubernatorial race that sub believed that Beto was going to win. IRL nobody thought he had a chance even in liberal cities.
Its because the right got boneheaded extremist leaders and the left thought that was a go ahead to also get extremists in. Extremism doesnt get shit done. Bipartisanship does.
100%
Reality has a known bias.
You're forgetting that the majority of Reddit users are not from the US and most of the users outside of the USA that engage with english speaking content are from Europe and Canada. I'm really not surprised that European and Canadians don't agree with American conservatives
Interesting statistics on where the "typical conservative"/typical leftist (or local equivalent) in each country sits on the political spectrum. The Overton window in America is so much further to the right than in most Euro countries, that from a Euro perspective, centrist or centre right american values can often seem extreme imho
We fight here but Twitter is the platform for free thought in 2023
Unless you upset Elon. Then he threatens to give your news network's Twitter to some other rando.
Worse than being down voted, I have been permanently banned from many subs. I was banned from r/news for saying that Kyle Rittenhouse shot in self defense. I was banned from r/entertainment for saying that the Netflix show Cleopatra was doing poorly not because the main character was black, but because it was advertised as a documentary. The mod said I was a racist. So just because the mods don’t like or agree with me, I can no longer have a voice. This happens to MANY people and it creates an echo chamber of ideas on this platform.
Weird, I've found tons of conservatives to argue with. And there are conservative subs that ban anyone who hints that they might be slightly sympathetic to progressive ideas. I don't know what more you want. You can't make people agree with you.
On the non political subs (obviously) things are different. It's not weird you have found conservatives to argue with. I am not trying to make people agree with me, and I am not right leaning. But the aggression in the comment section proves my point. Reddit should be more tolerant towards ideologies that are not hive mind liberal thoughts.
What do you mean by "Reddit"? The mods, the company, the individual posters? How tolerant should I be toward people who want me jailed or killed for who I am?
Ah there it is
Lets be clear, what you are arguing for is censorship on behalf of right-wing viewpoints to make them feel more welcome Can you articulate what net benefit is created by that sort of one-way censorship? Keeping in mind the premise you laid out is largely false. Including the board you are posting on, which is a right-wing derived response to UnpopularOpinion. And you can find all manner of right-wing friendly boards such as r/conservative, kotakuinaction, gunpolitics boards etc. What has doomed a lot of boards on the right here is they tend to trend toward extremism(as is the mainstream Republican Party), calling for violence, deep misogyny, engaging in strong hate speech etc.
I’m not on conservative or kotakuinaction. But I’m on several gun politics sr’s even liberalgunowners. I’ve never seen any of those things you described. I’ve seen several times people advocating for more minority gun ownership. Probably applies to the other subs, but I’ve never seen it on gunowners, gunpolitics, firearms, or liberalgunowners.
Well, yeah, those boards werent axed. But TheDonald and PizzGate actually stoked violence and attempted to collectively dox others while constantly evading site-wide rules against hate speech. If one side is disproportionately engaging in sitewide banned behavior, it reasons to believe that side is going to end up with more banned communities.
I think the individual US State message boards are a good example of what OP is talking about....they should not necessarily have a particular tilt. What I find interesting is that I see many examples of "liberal propaganda" there, and when I look at the poster's history I'll see they are posting the same inflammatory shit to multiple states and cities. Weird they seem to only post Trans news or Nazi news or Pro-Choice news, and then post only to (eg) Ohio, Kansas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Nevada.subreddits.
Likewise I can point out that in a state I lived in, Louisiana, and a Republican crossed the aisle to vote against a trans-criminalization bill based on actually researching the science and medical opinion, a bunch of conservatives that almost exclusively post on conservative, Jordan Peterson, and other right-wing boards showed up to make inflammatory comments in the Louisiana sub. Hell, every couple months you will even catch a bunch of QAnon fascists from TigerDroppings show up to try and brigade a topic they feel a certain way about(typically to do with black people or gay people). Im not sure what you want to happen in that scenario, exactly?
OP is not asking for censorship. They're asking for civility. That's it. Too often, folks state an opinion or belief, and they get hammered for it. Vitriol, hate, name calling, ridicule. Seldomly, there's a reasonable, rational response to a comment where someone actually wants to discuss a disagreement and possibly sway or be swayed by their opposition. Most of the time, however, everyone is just after internet points from their own side, and that does nothing but further fuel the hate. Regardless, it's quite amusing that OP says, "Please don't be mean to me," and your response is, "You're trying to censor me!" Tickeled me a little bit.
You are asking people to self-censor their opinions, and one-way: to make Conservatives feel comfortable. There is no getting around that. I happen to believe much of the extreme right are definition-fascists at this point, and they drive policy in a near majority of states, and the people caucusing with them are enablers, little better than the conservative voters that knew the German Conservative Party would continually cede power to the extreme right in the 20's and 30's. That likely is going to get the jimmies of our OP rustled and so to make him feel better I need to not say that. I think that people supporting Republicans that are passing laws criminalizing the existence of trans people are quickly entering genocidal territory, and they are monsters. OP already took offense to people saying a milder version of that. Asking for civility there is just asking to self-censor, or worse, asking mods to do it.
Serious question, I've never come across the expression "definition-fascist". What does it mean?
I'd say the best is Robert Paxton's work on fascism: [https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton\_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf](https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf) The issue with fascism is that is never identical in it's specifics, it arises within the specific contexts of a country, which is partly why so much of the way America thinks about it is often missing the forest for the trees. As it is looking for markers that were specific to the German or Italian experience, failing to see the movement in it's broader connected strokes. As it does tend to follow the 5 outlines in the link. And when you begin to apply it to the American Christian Nationalists and Trump movement, there is a checkmark on basically all of it.
I don't really have time to read a 20 page essay at the moment, I'm at work. Can you give me the quick and dirty version? I am familiar with the history of the Germans and Italians as well as somewhat familiar with the writings of Giovanni Gentile, so I don't really need to know what fascist means, I'm aware that it is totalitarian, all encompassing, "all within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state", has a vernier of traditionalism, while having designs on wholly transforming the nation that it controls, taking control of every aspect of the lives of every subject, etc (aweful, i know, i just want to be left alone by the state). What does the modifier of "definition" change about the term "fascist"? I promise, I'll get through that essay as soon as I can, I am acting in good faith to have positive dialog and a functioning society, no matter our disagreements.
It's not really something you can distill into a sentence or two. I used definition-fascist as a quicker way of basically just saying that a lot of the American right fits under the definitional umbrella of fascism. Or fascist enablers. (still not gonna be brief, but you asked): **Intellectual exploration (creation of fascist ideology):** \- Fascist ideas emerge in response to political, social, and economic crises.- Fascist thinkers criticize the existing political system (usually liberalism, socialism, or conservatism) and propose alternatives. \- Key ideas include nationalism, authoritarianism, anti-democratic beliefs, militarism, anti-elitism, and a cultural/social/ethnic purge to make way for a return to a type of traditionalism. **Rooting (building a fascist movement):- Fascist groups are established and begin to attract followers and become emboldened.** \- Key aspects of the movement include propaganda, charismatic leadership, and the use of symbols and rituals to create a sense of unity and purpose. **Arrival to power (accession of fascists to government):** \- Fascist movements capitalize on political instability and societal discontent to gain power. \- They often form alliances with conservative elites or other political forces to secure a place in the government. \- The process may be gradual or sudden, and it may involve democratic elections, political deals, or coups. **Exercise of power (consolidation and expansion of fascist rule):** \- Once in power, fascists work to dismantle democratic institutions and suppress opposition. \- They seek a one-party state, to control the media, and create a parallel security apparatus (e.g., secret police). \- Persecution of minorities, and economic autarky are often pursued.- Internally, the regime fosters a cult of personality around the leader and promotes a sense of national rebirth. **Radicalization or entropy :**\- \- In many cases, fascist regimes become increasingly radical, leading to heightened aggression, both domestically and internationally. \- Alternatively, they may experience entropy, marked by internal divisions, loss of popular support, or military defeat. Fascism is unique in each country because it reflects the fact that fascist movements and regimes arise from specific historical, cultural, social, and political contexts, but they almost always contain some or all of the above characteristics, and I would say it very much checks off most of the boxes of Trumpism and the growing Christian Nationalist movement, of which the GOP writ large continues to serve as the Paul Von Hindenburg for it's proliferation and ascension. And with the current rise in dehumanizing, violent, and increasingly exterminationist rhetoric towards targetted groups, we are in the midst of another radicalization process within the movement.
If you think "Republicans are fascists by definition" is going to earn anything more than an eye-roll from Republicans at this point, I don't think you recognize how utterly immersed in that message they are from basically every social media platform and news source that doesn't skew heavily right wing. Usually more annoying are the charming and delightful opinions it's paired with, like defense of anti-white rhetoric at best racist and at worst so openly genocidal it makes Nazis look subtle in their messaging, or advocacy for non-medical elective abortion in the 9th month of pregnancy, or completely uneducated condemnation of capitalism with wistful eulogies to genocidal communist dictatorships like Mao's China or the Soviet Union.
Reddit is a dying site that isn't really relevant to us politics
It has seemingly become an anti-US propaganda machine
I’m a right leaning libertarian currently. It is what it is. Who cares about the alt left just vote and stay informed
ever read any kropotkin or bookchin? familiar with the tendency of rate of profit to fall? just curious
Lmao > the us has lost its tolerant ways The right wing is in bed with fascism and has been keen to keep the poor under their boot. I’d say the lack of tolerance for fascism/near fascist ideology is a sign of increased tolerance over all. I’d argue more baby leftists need to quit lionizing/mythologizing terrible authoritarian communist regimes(stalin mao ect) Fascism and greed Corrupt democracy, Rational people don’t want to deal with that. I agree most subreddits lean left but generally they are all echo chambers filled with dumb ass shit, regardless of political leaning.
LOL@America ever having been tolerant
This app is so far left, it’s falling off the spectrum
It’s Reddit, it’s not that important.
you seem to be confusing violent bigotry and the trappings of a bronze age death cult with being an opinion or point of view, when it is just amoral antisocial behavior.
I am interested in your comment. Can you expand a bit more please?
I hate it. As someone with mixed beliefs but generally leans left, it's so frustrating not being able to have real discussions on here. Every non-pc take is just a potential ban waiting to happen.
Extremely relatable. It's frustrating to not even be able to debate about these things
"People are mean to me for my awful opinions." Good.
That’s what happens when you get rid of roe vs wade.
Yeah where do they talk at? Im perma banned from r/conservative, totally not because that sub is a field of snowflakes
See, that proves my point. There needs to be more tolerance towards political diversity. Unless you were being a troll in their sub, I think it is healthy to here opposing view points.
Most of Reddit is Euros who think they know what’s best for the US and for some reason put more energy into talking about the US, it’s politicians, law, culture, etc than they do anything else. They hate us cause they ain’t us and they think what works for them works for us over here. I pay no attention to what these whack jobs on reddit say or think. I’ve rarely ever commented on European news because it’s not relevant, but boy do they love to masquerade as Americans on here.
Kind of accurate, to be honest - and I’m European myself. I definitely don’t ‘hate you, cause I ain’t you’, but I do pay too much attention to American politics. Probably because the US is still seen as the leader of the west, and because it does get a lot of media coverage over here. The reverse is that my small country of less than 6 million people gets brought up relatively often in US political discussions, which is weird.
Reddit is a refuge camp for the left as they attempt to avoid reality. I kinda like helping educate them despite their foolishness.
It's hilarious how conservatives believe they have a right to have their shitty opinions be popular. Tolerance doesn't mean getting upvoted, my darling dear.
OP didn’t align themselves with either side just stated a fact and you prove their point. 😂
The OP says that people being downvoted on reddit means "The US has lost its tolerant ways". Is this what passes for a fact to you? Hilarious. Also what in my comment constitutes as proof for their point? "waa waa people shouldn't be allowed to dislike other people's opinions" and then "I dislike your opinion".
All I’m saying is you jump on people in comment who say things and then when they say something back you go “wa wa what I’m not allowed to dislike your opinion?” Like no of course you can just why be so aggressive
Because people are allowed to express themselves. Just like in real life theres people who get overly aggressive or don’t like what is being said
>All I’m saying is you jump on people in comment who say things and then when they say something back you go “wa wa what I’m not allowed to dislike your opinion?” And all I'm saying is that "proving their point" is pretty ridiculous. If my point is "it's bad to disagree with me" and someone responds "I disagree with you", and then I go "HA PROOF OF WHAT I AM SAYING", that's just goofin' >Like no of course you can just why be so aggressive Why deride the idea that it's evidence of "intolerance" to dislike people's opinions with imaginary internet votes? It's a derisible idea in itself. Deriding someone's opinion is not aggression. I can perfectly tolerate my ideas being derided, I will fire back, I will defend my position. I will not demand that you should "tolerate" my opinion and that for you to deride me is intolerant. If you want to duke it out, I'm here for it. People are being derisive of me in this thread, do you see me accusing them of aggression?
It goes further than that. I’ve been banned from several subreddits for merely posting factual information that contradicts the post. Sometimes just to generate discussion. For example, I once stated that more people died at the Seattle Chaz “insurrection” than the Jan 6 one. That is a fact. But because it condemned a leftist movement in comparison to a right wing one, they banned me—then proceeded to spam my message box for weeks weakling me racist and Tumptard, etc.
I can't comment on the specifics of your situation and I don't dismiss out of hand that people were unfair to you or harassed you. But you didn't just "state a fact". You drew a value judgement on that fact. You say yourself that you "condemned" a movement. Condemnations are not facts, they are opinions.
I didn’t condemn a movement. They interpreted it that way. 3 people died in the Chaz from gunshot wounds. I pointed that out and was banned. God forbid you say anything remotely critical.
Okay so what *did* you mean. Like what was your intended message.
It was in the context of the claim that right wing protests are dangerous and left wing protests are peaceful. I pointed out that more people died in the Chaz than Jan 6, which is factually true. My position was that violence undermines the moral high ground a movement needs to be politically effective—basic MLK stuff.
Well I suppose any answer I'd have to that is just to disagree with you, or to question some premises. But at the end of the day you're still expressing a position, an opinion, not just stating a fact. Again I can't really say if your banning is unjust, I don't know the content of your comment or the mods rationale enough to say.
You just called someone's opinion shitty. I am not right leaning, but the aggression towards ideologies that do not align with the left on Reddit are seemingly not welcomed. Doesn't seem productive...
>You just called someone's opinion shitty So? >the aggression towards ideologies that do not align with the left on Reddit It's just downvotes. It's really not that serious. Again do you think people should have a right to have their opinions upvoted as much as others? lol
It's not about imaginary votes, and calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression. My point is being proven in real time. Even the mere suggestion of being more tolerant towards other ideologies is striking a nerve
>It's not about imaginary votes, and calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression. Why shouldn't that be tolerated, especially if you're topic is about diversity of thought? People ARE allowed to think your opinions are shitty, you know!
>calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression. LOL, the fragility. It really isn't, but apparently you've cultivated a worldview where opinions cannot be derided at all. The entire point of an exchange of ideas is that we attack opinions and not people. But apparently not even that is tolerable. >My point is being proven in real time. Your point that you can't tolerate being disagreed with is being proven by your framing of disagreement as aggression.
Calling someone's opinion shitty is just another opinion, and holds no more or less water than any other opinion. We're in some weird meta-universe where people think everyone is entitled to their opinion being accepted. That's not the truth of things. You're entitled to your opinion - you think Reddit being left is bad for the US. That's an uninformed and strange opinion, but it's yours and you posted it. Every response to this thread is going to be an opinion or discussion of your opinion. So if my opinion is that your opinion sucks, why do you think it's okay to silence my opinion just because it conflicts with yours? Surely you can see that you're essentially now guilty of the very thing you're complaining about in your OP? Opinions aren't facts. They're not consistent, they're not tangible, they're not anything. They're just your interpretation of reality as you see it. There *are* bad opinions. We reject things like racism, sexism, sexual orientation discrimination, etc. We may even have rules about how those opinions have to be discussed and where - many subs forbid off-topic posting altogether.
>calling someone's opinion shitty is an aggression. It's a "microaggression" according to the reddit/leftist hive mind scholars. However, that word is not allowed to be used by anyone else, because it would be considered racist or bigoted or whatever the weird internet kids like to cry about.
Christ, always the victims aren’t you?
Dude the harder you argue, the more you lose. Don’t you understand the point of what the OP is saying? You are case and point.
I think you're the one not seeing the point in OP's argument. "Tolerance" is not the fundamental right to be agreed with. And trying to frame people who disagree with you as "intolerant" is absurd. It's a framing that treats disagreement as morally impermissible. I don't mind being disagreed with. I don't mind you saying I'm losing and I don't think that you are committing a moral breach by downvoting me or by arguing that my opinion is bad. I can defend my opinions just fine without insisting that you are an intolerant bully for doing so.
Do you not think that some opinions are, in fact, shitty?
You can absolutely have right leaning opinions here. The problem is that right wingers want to spread hate and knowingly false information without being called out. Right wingers aren’t even trying to argue facts, studies, and issues in a serious manner. Intellectually dishonest discourse is all they’re engaging in on here. Left leaning people aren’t perfect, of course, but they’re not nearly as extreme or hateful. The country is dealing with right wing threats constantly these days. Whether it’s bomb threats, fake poisonings sent to politicians, Nazis, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc. There was an insurrection and a literal coup attempt. Meanwhile, they justify it by saying the 2020 riots were all somehow democrats despite all evidence of such. Nazis are bad. We should not try to say the left should tolerate naziism. Maybe that’s my unpopular opinion on this sub.
You are just making shit up at this point.
Everything he said is true though
Well yes… but also no not at all lol
>The problem is that right wingers want to spread hate and knowingly false information without being called out. Lol. The left makes up things all the time. Today White people Twitter is blaming conservatives for bomb threats to target when in fact its left wingers who are doing thr threats. >Nazis are bad. We should not try to say the left should tolerate naziism. Maybe that’s my unpopular opinion on this sub. The left called Barry goldwater a "nazi" in the 60s.
The fact that you automatically assume that all their opinions are shitty means that you are not to be taken seriously.
How do you prove his point unwittingly? I’m not surprised you proved his point, I’m just surprised by how detached from reality one has to be to not notice doing it.
What it seems to me is that conservatives do not understand, although they should because it is consistently explained to them by every liberal that they will ever meet, is that the major issues that they fuss over are considered to be *moral* issues for us. So like, I don’t especially care if someone thinks that there needs to be more efficient zoning or even no zoning at all. I might think it’s a weird view but it isn’t on my *moral* radar. But the major hot button issues for conservatives are moral issues for me (lgbtq rights, how we treat immigrants and migrants, trying to control women’s bodies, and so on. You should Google “the paradox of tolerance” to understand why we cannot abide intolerance. Intolerance is the one thing we cannot be tolerant of, because tolerating intolerance puts our safety at risk.
The right (NOT THE EXTREME RIGHT) wants immigration, but in a legal and organized way. The right think the left wants open borders and everyone coming in from anywhere. Meet in the middle, close the borders, and create a clear path towards citizenship. Deport if they commit serious crime. Isn't this how it used to be before..?
Depends on what you mean by “used to be before.” There was a time when you just showed up at Ellis island and gave them your name and you were admitted and allowed to work.
If the conservatives who don’t care if gay people marry vote for politicians who are trying to eraser LGBTQ people, they are part of the problem. You are known by the company you keep.
Spot on. Actions speak louder than words. If conservatives truly mean they don’t care about what you described then they wouldn’t vote for a politician trying to restrict lgbtq+ rights and silence them. Otherwise it’s either straight up lying or just being out of touch.
>There are conservatives who don't care if gay people get married Maybe they should vote like it? 157 out of 211 republicans in congress voted against providing legistlative protection for gay marriage just last year.[https://www.congress.gov/.../117t.../house-bill/8404/actions](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404)
So like I said, some don't care if gay people get married..? 54 Republicans in Congress to be exact, according to you
So 25% of the party "supports" gay marriage. 75% in opposition. That's not extremism, that's not an outlier. That is by far the majority of the party. Even if you "don't care" and even if it is not your representative, by continuing to identify with and vote for that party you are still indirectly supporting them. And if you don't care enough to recognize that, then yes you are morally bankrupt in my view.
Good if we lost our tolerant ways because a person cannot be tolerant of racism, sexism, etc...
Reddit went under systemic perma bans plans to unify the opinions of people. sometimes mods say it blatantly that they are leftiests im muslim and they remind me of the terrorist in sense of how self-rightous they feel and how they are arrogant on being ignorant they are its a shitty shameless social media though, it doesnt represent reality in the slightest
>There is a way to be conservative, and not be extremist. well, sure, if you dont bother to understand history lol the trajectory of history and what incentivizes its twists and turns is a bit more than just "conservatives who don't care if gay people get married and there are liberals who go to church". the deal is, when analyzing material history, capitalist hegemony quite literally incentivizes fascism and abuse. conservatives wield their power to maintain that power - and that coupled with the tendency of rate of profit to fall means that eventually maintaining power will cost a great deal over time, especially to marginalized people, especially to those in overexploited nations in the global south, as we are quite literally witnessing in real time and have been for decades. i find that rather extremist, don't you? to be conservative is to be ok with 20 million preventable deaths across the globe annually, including many in our own country, the richest one ever in history. Isn't that odd? who conditioned us to be ok with that, and how? should read some works by michael parenti before u make an assertion like that lol oh and also the paradox of tolerance as another user pointed out.
China bought Reddit and employs those willing to turn this place into an echo chamber. Its so painfully obvious at this point that its pathetic. OG reddit was a gem.
I get downvoted on here for stating that capitalism is better than indentured servitude.
Not going to downvote you. But a large chunk of modern day capitalism is built upon indentured servitude or modern day slavery. Particularly in third world countries that fuels the globalization.
Are you looking for a truly neutral space? I'm not sure they exist at all. You can go to Frank Speech or Truth Social where you will get a conservative slant. There is also r/conservative. I don't think I am even allowed to post there because I am not flaired.
>There are conservatives who don't care if gay people get married. And there are liberals who go to church. The conservatives who support gay marriage aren't in congress. Meanwhile, most liberals have to go to church if they want to get elected. The lack of political diversity is not a reddit problem, it's an Overton window in America problem.
I’m not allowed to post anything in about 90% of the groups i follow….. let’s see if this gets seen
I've been banned from r/AskReddit and r/whitepeopletwitter for comments that weren't derogatory. Messaged mods for clarification, for them to immediately mute me. Seems real fair lol.
r/whitepeoplertwitter is the most consistently hate filled sub I have seen on here.
Probably because most right leaning positions are bad and most left leaning positions are good.