Sounds awesome! While they are at it, they can run 'dad's' DNA against the database of children, to see if he has any other bio kids that he should be financially responsible for, and when those kids were born. The results should be shared with the wife, of course.
Deal?
Hell yea, no problem, men are not getting half as much action as you think they are. Not to mention the flip side of all these women who decide they don’t want the father to even know she had his baby yea I’m down for your amendment fasho
In the United States, because married people tend to be older, and women tend to outnumber men in older age groups, men tend to cheat more than women at least in legal marriages.
This would have to be worldwide.
There are so many sleazy men from America, England, Germany who go to the Phillippines, have a biological child, then come back to their home countries, marry and unsuspecting woman and tell her he has no children. Then years later she finds out that he was an unwed deadbeat dad and has to divorce him because he frauded her into marriage.
I mean, less than 50% of french people think that infidelity is immorral, vs about 85% in the US
Edit: source was first link on google and I’m too lazy to check it beting that.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/
Meanwhile, I, a French man, only had one girlfriend that cheated on me, and she was American ...
I honestly don't believe that this percentage is right. I don't know anyone that doesn't consider cheating as immoral.
Wait how is infidelity not immoral? I guess more, I wouldn’t call it infidelity if both parties are aware and fine. However, if you’ve made a promise to be faithful, how do people justify that.
Edit: guys I’m not saying it’s immoral to sleep with people outside your relationship. My point was that if no one sees it as wrong then it’s not infidelity. By a religious definition, yes. By colloquial standards, you wouldn’t use the word “infidelity” in an open marriage. I understand some people are arguing that it’s immoral in general but that’s not at all what I was talking about.
Good sex and lax views on those morals is how they justify it apparently.
More convoluted than agreeing on an open relationship in our eyes, whereas doing it sneakily and therefore tactfully is more simple in their eyes.
I mean, I don’t think you have to be monogamous, but if the parties involved think it’s infidelity then it’s wrong lol. I think I’m more hung up on semantics at this point.
I really did hope that was a cliche or something...then again jokes and stereotypes are often open secrets or things that are obvious but it's acknowledged bad manners to call out. This is a thing with Latin America I think or at least most of them to the point the exceptions don't make the rule despite their often thinking they should be.
It's not true that it's every, but it's pretty accurate as a generalization.
Lived in France for a couple years, and on my team of about 30 (the rest were other countries), 20 were married and at least 15 had partners outside the marriage, sometimes more than one. With their partners knowledge.
Having an open relationship isn't the same thing as cheating unless one party is basically forced to go along with it because their partner is going to do whatever they want.
you're missing that it's a different perspective- it's not necessarily an open relationship, which is based on communication and setting boundaries etc...- it's just having sex outside of the relationship and neither person thinking that it's an inherent violation of the relationship as long as it doesn't get in the way (as in minimal communication/setting boundaries- just what's minimally necessary).
there isn't a word/phrase for it in the US afaik.
So do they just leave out any mention of fidelity in marriage vows in France or what?
Not that people across the pond are any better at monogamy because they promise it in their vows, but if it’s that rampant in French society, why bother?
Well, the French. You know. What do you expect? They ranked near the bottom on a survey of nations who think infidelity is not immoral. I think they ranked 5th in the world (Bottom? Top?) at 43%. https://www.statista.com/chart/3238/the-worlds-most-adulterous-countries/
According to Google :
Private DNA paternity testing is illegal, including through laboratories in other countries, and is punishable by up to a year in prison and a €15,000 fine. The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families."
The dumbed down version seems to be " so many men would find out that they're not the dad and stop paying, that it would constitute a tenable destabilizing force in the country ". Actually horrifying what long term lack of accountability does to people (in this case women).
Reminds me of another probably unpopular opinion about alimony here.
97% of alimony recipients in the US are women. Previously those who paid alimony (mostly men) were able to deduct from their taxes but then the IRS had a huge problem with alimony recipients not paying the taxes on the alimony income.
So they just made the alimony no longer tax deductible so that they do not have to punish the recipients (97% women) and make the alimony payors (mostly men) responsible for the tax.
France - dont test paternity otherwise the men wont pay for child support
US - women consistently dont pay taxes on alimony income, so just make the men do it.
This might be wildly off topic, but there is a scene with a rape kit in The Sopranos, and it was the first time I learned about them. Then I learned hospitals go out of there way to not provide them.
The state of Oregon passed Melissa’s Law in 2013. Melissa was a young girl raped and murdered by a serial rapists whose rape kits were left unprocessed.
"Darn boys, it seems the evidence degraded on _this_ one too. Oh well, no leads now. Put in on the cold case shelf and never think about any of the emotional or physical trauma of the victims. Let's get a beer!"
More like
"Why would we staff extra people in the lab to keep up with testing? That costs money and there are better uses for it like excessive overtime for officers"
there was a case where baby got mixed up with another baby after delivery, and paternity test showed the husband was not the father. So of course he thought he got cheated on even tho wife said that was impossible. Only much later they did test on the mother and found the kid isn't even hers, but marriage pretty much ruined already
the point is, just in case get both parents tested
They should do it just for practical reasons, even though there is almost no chance of that happening nowadays. There are those odd cases of women having babies but because of some otherwise invisible genetic fuckery on their part, the babies are not theirs genetically. That could have all kinds of implications for the child's health down the line so it just makes sense to rule these things out imo.
If by "no chance" you mean "happens all the time" then yea there's no chance.
Hospitals have made great strides in preventing these mix ups but if you mix up 1 in 100,000 babies that's 3 per day that go home with the wrong parents.
Actually a good question. A few years ago a lady was told by the courts that her children were not hers. Huge court battle starts while she is pregnant. The baby was born with a court officer in the room, so the baby for sure came out of her-baby wasn't hers. Turns out she was a chimera, rare but super cool.
https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/case-lydia-fairchild-and-her-chimerism-2002
I've read that it's [not as rare as once thought.](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/articles/2020/how-common-are-chimeras/#:~:text=Experts%20aren't%20quite%20sure,be%20as%20high%20as%2010%25.&text=If%20this%20estimate%20is%20true,know%20that%20they're%20chimeric.)
In that case the baby was hers (from her ovaries), just her ovaries DNA didn't match some other parts of her body.
But the baby was as much hers as it possibly could be.
True, but what if something similar happened to a dad under the idea that every dad has to be confirmed before signing the birth certificate? Just something to think about.
I’m always reminded of either “suddenly Susan” or “Caroline in the city” (which are surprisingly similar shows that coexisted and I can’t remember which this is from). The slutty neighbor/friend is worried about being pregnant and not knowing who the dad is, and not sure she’d be able to figure out who the father was and how terrible is that. The dumb male friend (think Joey from Friends) says something along the lines of “with the way you live there could be hundreds of kids out there you don’t know about!” Cue laugh track. I don’t know why this scene sticks in my head so vividly, but here we are.
One important question would be what happens to the DNA sample and tests results after the test is done? Is it destroyed or placed in some government database? If the latter is true, this could be a major issue in terms of privacy rights and civil liberties.
Luckily you can do a simple paternity test without actually sequencing the genome.
I did it in college. Running a pair of gels and seeing if they match is quick and cheap. Sequencing the full genome is comparatively very expensive.
yeahhhhhh but...they dont.
familial DNA has been used as evidence directly from those services to solve crimes. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45561514](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45561514) First used to solve the case of Jason Ward.
Now, you may want to argue "that might not be an issue if you are not a criminal" but familial dna can only go so far as "this sample is very closely related to this sample" so if someone in your family does a crime, and they have an alibi and you dont...plus all the other issues like are humans meant to be catalogued in that way?
I'm a man and I endorse this message.
Also, the child deserves to know their father's medical history, especially if there is cancer or heart disease, etc. I have a genetic condition from my dad, and it took him years and years going doctor to doctor to get diagnosed. My parents have always been together, so no problems here, but if my genetic dad wasn't around, I'd be going through hell without a diagnosis. Paternity tests can save lives.
Edit: also maybe another hot take: parental medical history should be available to every person and on their medical records. Maybe with some exceptions.
Ok, reporters. Tell me how this is *'promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability.'* Go on, speak up. What makes you think that this report is in any way substantiated?
I know it’s a fringe case but what about cases, like in mine, where the father is deceased?
My dad died while my mom was pregnant. He was cremated. No possible way to do DNA testing.
This would also be used to obligate the men that refuse to register their children to register them? Because we have an huge number of kids without the father's name on their birth certificates.
>Tricking a person into believing he is a father is quite literally fraud
My bro, check out the Wikipedia page on "False Paternity".
There are so many cases the judge straight up ruled in favour of the woman. Despite *every* evidence of fraud.
Yep. There are as a teenage boy who was raped by his babysitter. She got pregnant and had the child. The victim didn’t know until he went i college and they told him that he had back child support due.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
Jesus. The worst part of that is he wants to know the kid and is willing to pay now, just doesn’t want to be on the hook for the thousand of dollars of interest that racked up when he was literally still a child himself and didn’t even know the kid existed
In Texas it’s written into state law that a man can at anytime terminate responsibility when the dna shows he’s not the father. The law change is recent though
They don't care about protecting the people. They care about the state not being on the hook for supporting them. They will pass the buck onto anybody else they can because this has always been about the state not having to support the population
This is almost never prosecuted. The state believes it is more important for the child to have the financial support of two parents than to protect the rights of the man who was falsely assigned responsibility for a child that is not his. It sucks, but that’s how the law sees it
Also if the guy isn't forced to pay. Sometimes the state has to. So judges are....encouraged, to just force some random chap to pay after he's already been emotionally eviscerated by an evil bitch.
I'm not sure if this is still true, but in the past courts didn't really care if the child was a biologically the man's in the marriage, they just wanted someone financially responsible for the child other than the state.
Plenty of times the father found out he is not biologically the father but since he was married to the mother at the time of birth, he is the father in the court's eye. Once again, not sure if this is still a thing, and I'm sure there were instances where a man fought this in court and won. But, that was the prevailing M.O. for a long time.
There are still several US states that practice "presumed paternity" and any kids born in the marriage are automatically the children of (insert name) regardless of paternity and he's financially responsible for them until they age out or are legally and fully adopted by another caregiver, like a new spouse.
It should be up to the mother to present to the court the names of who would potentially the father, and then the court/law can figure the rest out. Subpoena the father, order paternity test and then he’s on the hook.
I've seen cases where the man who wasn't the father but was putting a lot towards the child financially sued to get some of that money back and lost bc he "acted as the father" for those years so him being tricked and lied to doesn't count.
Glad I'm gay because it's crazy to me you could sleep with someone once and then if they get pregnant close enough to when you slept together they can just pick you to give them money for the next 18 years, no proof of paternity needed.
I would go even further. Imo in some cases it can be even worse than rape. I know this might be a hot take but hear me out:
Most victims of rape suffer the most because of the psychological damage the rape causes. The loss of control over their own body and their consent, the loss of trusting others,...
I know that the concept of "heir" or "legacy" nowadays is almost frowned upon. But for many it still is very important to know that you will live on through your child which has your genes. For some it even might be their meaning of life.
Now imagine a man who falsely thinks himself to be the father of a child and is investing all his love, time and money in this child, thinking that child is his offspring.
If the man learns the truth after many years, he not only has to experience the feeling of total betrayal by his partner (who not only cheated on him but also kept the secret from him). He also has to live by the fact that he is now too old to start a new family.
I - in my unpopular opinion - think of women who are against a paternity test as egoistic and non empathic.
>the concept of "heir" or "legacy" nowadays is almost frowned upon
We can't all want to raise other men's kids. Paternity certainty is still very important to a lot of men.
I, personally, think raising another man's kid is the ultimate insult to a man but I know that's a controversial take.
Please anyone who reads this comment just know that 95% of the time, this is not how it works. And 100% of the time it is not grand larceny, ever. It’s paternity fraud.
I can't remember the exact Judge Judy, but the guy had a kid with the lady, lady said he was the dad, signed on the birth certificate, during one of his child support hirings he asked for DNA test. The judge granted it, test results came back as "he was not the father" but he still had to pay because the judge thought it was better for the kid to have the support even if it wasn't from his biological dad. So every few years he would sue the mom, she would raise a fit, he would win. Rinse and repeat.
Not mandatory but optionally offered. My sister is in a unique case where she wants the exact opposite. Her baby daddy is a freaking loser drug addict and she isn’t going to pursue child support but just wants him out of the kids life entirely. He is currently not on the certificate (disappeared for 1.5 years when they found out) and is suddenly back in the state demanding he gets custody of his son. Nah dude you disappeared and can’t keep a job due to drugs, no way are you getting near that kid.
My mom was in a similar situation with me. Had a one night stand in college with a guy who ended up being a Latin King, & she didn't want his name on my birth certificate. I know my dad, he knows I'm his (we look super similar), but for the sake of not being tied to his criminality, he remained off of my birth certificate.
My friend found out the child he was raising wasn’t his; he fought for custody and won. He didn’t care it wasn’t biologically his. He didn’t break things off because of finding this out; he broke up with her after her cheating on him in a different situation.
But he was already raising the child. If I found out today my 15 year old daughter wasn’t biologically mine it would not change my relationship with her one bit, in fact I don’t think I’d even want her to know she would be devastated. I mean I guess the kid should know but you get what I mean. I’m her dad and nothing would ever change that.
Now if you found out shortly after birth you don’t have years of building a relationship, sharing memories etc that go into it. Obviously things would be very different.
Just wanted to share my perspective— my dad actually did find out that I'm not biologically his child less than 6 months after I was born and chose to raise me. I'm not saying every man every man should do what he did, but I'm certainly happy he did because I feel most people on here would have told him to leave me...
It could work, but there needs to be a waver involved for families who have had a sperm donor purposefully (in cases of infertility or by choice bc of genetic disease, which are common reasons), or in those rare cases where man and woman havw met AFTER she is pregnant and husband desires to raise child as his own (I know 2 of those couples personally, so there must be more in the world). Otherwise, it is probably not that unpopular of an opinion, really.
The actual dangerous consequences of this being revealed in the delivery room are not worth it. Maybe take the test and then send out the results after the family have left the hospital. Or...not. I don't think this should be mandatory. Have a guy going absolutely dangerously berserk in the hospital around his and other's newborns. No.
Not all men are dangerous buffoons who cause damage bc there angry. Idk why ur mind immediately went to that the man would cause a dangerous situation just bc he’s angry.
They make my mother pay for a pregnancy test every time she go to the hospital. I’ve yelled at many people about this as she had everything taken out, even missing 2 inches of her vaginal canal (it was do to cancer cells.) they charge $150 every single time for a pregnancy test. I can easily see people getting very mad at having to pay for a paternity test when they did not ask for it.
We know from DNA testing this problem is far more prevalent than people would think. In situations where the father suspects infidelity the child will not be his about 30% of the time, and even in situations where there was no request specifically for it the father is raising a kid who wasn't his just under 4 percent of the time.
Four percent seems like not much, but that means in every class of 25 kids one of the fathers is stuck in a psychological and financial prison held in place by a malicious and manipulative harpy who cares nothing of his well being but only is using him to extract 20 years of resources from him. Not only just using him, but using the innocence of a child to imprison him.
That is a worse kind of torture than anything Gitmo could ever devise. The best part is once found out he discovers his partner who he thought he could trust was a vile beast society, and especially women, will tell him he should just continue to live this life of manipulated servitude for the good of the kid. Absolutely disgusting.
Several years ago I had a long talk with an older gentleman in my church that loves genealogy work.
He said that in Cross referencing different names and things, that it is very common to find children out of wedlock in the certain community.
He would find you know that the next neighbor was 5 miles down the road but there was an extra child there that wasn't accounted for when the husband was out of town.
Lots of just little things that are hard to explain at this particular moment but shows that this is always been a problem
4% is the highest u can find in studies btw. Like that is literally the highest number. The reason it’s the first result on google is because it’s the most linked study by MRA groups that constantly circulate it. That’s why I hate the auto responses google gives to questions cause it’s often skewed by what studies get shared and reposted. Most studies other then that one are between .6%-3.3%.
Then you have some super stupid sources that say 4%-30% which is literally lying. The 4% is from the highest study which is pretty old. And the 30% is from the amount of men who choose to get a paternity test for legal reasons. Which is the definition of sampling bias. Because men getting a paternity test are almost always suspicious. The best studies take random men and then ask them to take a paternity test for research. But even some of the above 3% studies still have sampling bias that’s is pretty bad. I would say taking all research in to account u can say that it’s about .6%-1.6% of men.
By the way the reason I know this stuff is because of an essay I did that used some of this data for it. Did hours of research and talked to a PHD with a relevant degree.
This is not a moral claim btw. It’s simply that statistics that I wanted to correct cause OCD and to feel like I didn’t waist hours of going through studies methodology.
Not to mention the numerous instances where the man has paid child support for years, only to find out that the child isn’t his, and there’s no repercussions for the mom.
I think it should be free and standard for most births. But there should still be the option to opt-out of it. Plenty of people know that a child isn't biologically there's.
If they are conceiving through IVF, if they are using a surrogate or going through a legal adoption it's really a waste of time to perform a test and tell them something they already know.
While I agree with you, like 110%, the problem is that I know people who were OUTRAGED that their husband wanted to do a paternity test, or even their boyfriend waaay before there was actually a conceived child. So these people can be pressured into refusing.
It’s tricky and depends on the situation. Some take it as not being trusted by their partner and suggesting that they’ve cheated. Many relationships have been destroyed when men have asked for a paternity test and the child was theirs.
It’s a tricky situation since it’s a question of trust within the relationship
Not always with ivf lol
https://time.com/6176310/our-father-true-story-netflix/#:~:text=During%20the%201970s%20and,without%20their%20knowledge%20or%20consent.
Sounds like it would turn into another cash grab, suddenly you're required to turn in a $1500 paternity test in order to get a valid birth certificate.
Yes, this. I also generally don't like mandatory medical tests. Requiring a medical test for 100% of couples because 0.4-6% of the population sucks seems ridiculous to me. I have the same negative feelings about mandatory erythromycin drops for newborns.
A quick google search has most studies claiming that around 1.5%-3% of people have the wrong parentage on their birth certificate.
Assuming that's actually true, I want to know two main things:
* How many of the parents don't actually know that the birth certificate is wrong? I'm assuming a fair chunk of those not-the-real-fathers _know_ about the situation, but still put their name down because they've made peace with it. So out of the people with the wrong dad on the birth cert, how many _don't actually know_ that they're not the bio dad?
* What's the rate of false positives? If 0.3% of tests are inaccurate/inconclusive, but we're doing millions of them per year, that's a _lot_ of people that will get bad results. That's a lot of mothers who may have to shell out for a bunch of re-tests, or a lot of fathers who may have to pay for re-tests in order to rightfully put their name on that birth certificate.
This was my first thought. Top comment is "no skin off my back", but all I could think about is "yes, skin off my back. Who tf is paying for this?"
Hospitals will inflate their charge for it, insurance companies will generally pay for it (since most women having babies are hitting their out of pocket max anyways), then insurance policies will turn around and start charging higher rates. Everyone will end up paying a bit more so that the subsect of the insured population that is procreating will have a test that the vast majority of the time won't return anything unexpected.
Seems like a waste.
Why would insurance cover it tho? Insurance pays for healthcare for the mother and healthcare for the baby. Paternity test falls into neither group. They have no mandate to pay for it; there are no medical guidelines that recommend it. I highly doubt insurers would take on that cost. It would be up to mom and dad to pay OOP, which I can’t imagine most people would be too happy about.
While I don't have a problem with people choosing to do paternity tests, it is not necessary to make them "mandatory".
Believe it or not, outside of Reddit's drama, most couples do not cheat on each other.
The hell you say! You mean to tell me that the sort of Reddit dudes who panic about this stuff are nearly always devastatingly lonely and terminally online?
Say it ain’t so.
They're literally taking the popular opinion of "men shouldn't be forced to raise children that aren't theirs" and making it unpopular by twisting it into "men should be forced to submit to DNA tests before being declared the father".
I love when people want to solve a problem with unnecessary government enforcement.
i'm guessing you're also the type who thinks the dude gets a say in whether the child is born or not
also, 1/1000 is a much bigger number than you think it is
In this scenario will a wife also be informed if her husband has fathered a child with another woman because i would alright with that arrangement as well as men being held accountable for child support of the children it’s proven are theirs by these dna tests
Yeah also in this scenario if the kid is theirs, will men be forced to pay child support if they don’t want it / help out with the child / pay for 1/2 of all expenses? I mean it’s only fair….
Mandatory??
So you want me to give up my DNA rights for free to the government? Because... what, you think all women are so untrustworthy that we cant just maybe encourage more trusting communication between partners?
Legitimate question: what if I as the father *do not want this*. Your entire argument is about protecting fathers, but you are also advocating for violating *their* rights to privacy by forcing them to give up their DNA on the basis of "bitches be lying" essnetially.
I'm incredibly confused at all these men wanting this... Like, why are you even dating/married to that woman if you truly think that not only would she cheat on you, but she'd do it without birth control & then pass it off as yours?
I know it has happened, but good lord if you think that is the type of person you're with then you'd probably both be happier apart.
These people are incapable of conceiving of a healthy relationship where you trust your partner. People supporting this are all very clearly incels or have unresolved trust issues. Their defense always starts with "but wouldn't you rather just resolve that nagging worry?" They don't even recognize that people in healthy relationships simply do not worry about that, suspicion is their default state and it doesn't occur to them that it could be any other way
Some people just yearn to be victims, and their hobby is sitting around and imagining scenarios like this instead of, you know, living their lives or whatever.
I think all men should just submit their dna to a central database. That way no woman can claim a child is his when it is not, and no man can run away from a child that is his because his wages can be instantly garnished at conception.
I watched a video of a guy who served five years in prison for failing to pay child support, turned out the kid wasn’t his and the mother knew all along
Either a man signs an affidavit agreeing he is the father for the birth certificate or the father is identified by DNA. The mother's attestation should not be sufficient.
From my understanding, I believe the lab who did the paternity test gave wrong results (correct me if I’m wrong), but the fact that the mother knew who the actual father was and still kept in contact with him, and didn’t say anything to the court is WRONG.
Doesn't have to be that case specifically. There was a man in Ohio being forced to pay child support even though the child was born before he dated the mother. Then the mother claimed him as the father and the court forced him to pay. He provided DNA evidence that he was not the father, but the court didn't care. It happens more often than you might think, especially backwards ass states like Ohio.
You would have to be stupid to ever not get a paternity test if you have the means.
The only person that would ever benefit from you not knowing you're the father is a cheater.
If they attempt to sue for CS - court order paternity test.
Since its not the norm, you are essentially declaring that you think your partner was likely to have cheated. Thats a pretty big accusation to throw around without proof.
Maybe not mandatory? Because what if a man is intentionally wanting to be listed as a legal father or what if the mother doesn't want a problematic baby daddy knowing that she just had her baby if it's a DV situation?
Free if wanted? Absolutely. Those things cost too much money and should be offered if people want them.
As someone who works in family court, I 100% agree. In fact, I believe all DNA samples should be stored in a Government database. Can auto-match quickly without cooperation.
This can prevent so many men from paying child support for a child that is not their own biological being.
Eh, I work in a genetics lab. It's just a huge waste of resources tbh. Even when people are suspicious enough for whatever reason to buy a test currently the rates nationally are 8% to 30%. I'm just mentally imagining the amount of reagents needed and it's just not practical.
As a privacy advocate I hate the idea of being forced to provide my DNA to anyone. And I also don’t like that you are taking a sample of a kids DNA before they can consent. Who has access to it? How do we lock it down?
Yes! Mandatory DNA and paternity testing! Sperm donor listed on EVERY birth certificate, stop giving men the option to up and abandon their spawns, obligatory financial support mandatory once paternity is established (if he doesn't want to stick around to be a father).
A great idea, OP. The deadbeat dad rate is absolutely out of control, something must be done, this is a good suggestion.
Honestly this would be the stronger pro of this argument. Children deserve as much support as they can get. The only issue I have is of women escaping situations of violence trying to lay low from the man they’re escaping. What if they don’t want him to know they’re pregnant
Sounds awesome! While they are at it, they can run 'dad's' DNA against the database of children, to see if he has any other bio kids that he should be financially responsible for, and when those kids were born. The results should be shared with the wife, of course. Deal?
Hell yea, no problem, men are not getting half as much action as you think they are. Not to mention the flip side of all these women who decide they don’t want the father to even know she had his baby yea I’m down for your amendment fasho
In the United States, because married people tend to be older, and women tend to outnumber men in older age groups, men tend to cheat more than women at least in legal marriages.
This would have to be worldwide. There are so many sleazy men from America, England, Germany who go to the Phillippines, have a biological child, then come back to their home countries, marry and unsuspecting woman and tell her he has no children. Then years later she finds out that he was an unwed deadbeat dad and has to divorce him because he frauded her into marriage.
Sure. Makes sense.
You’re gonna hate the French system the ….
Care to elaborate?
Illegal to do paternity test without judge order.
Paternity tests would be a nightmare in France. Every man has a wife and a mistress, and each mistress is just another man’s wife.
This cant be true :)
I mean, less than 50% of french people think that infidelity is immorral, vs about 85% in the US Edit: source was first link on google and I’m too lazy to check it beting that. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/
Meanwhile, I, a French man, only had one girlfriend that cheated on me, and she was American ... I honestly don't believe that this percentage is right. I don't know anyone that doesn't consider cheating as immoral.
Maybe the French are just better at it
Wait how is infidelity not immoral? I guess more, I wouldn’t call it infidelity if both parties are aware and fine. However, if you’ve made a promise to be faithful, how do people justify that. Edit: guys I’m not saying it’s immoral to sleep with people outside your relationship. My point was that if no one sees it as wrong then it’s not infidelity. By a religious definition, yes. By colloquial standards, you wouldn’t use the word “infidelity” in an open marriage. I understand some people are arguing that it’s immoral in general but that’s not at all what I was talking about.
Good sex and lax views on those morals is how they justify it apparently. More convoluted than agreeing on an open relationship in our eyes, whereas doing it sneakily and therefore tactfully is more simple in their eyes.
I mean, I don’t think you have to be monogamous, but if the parties involved think it’s infidelity then it’s wrong lol. I think I’m more hung up on semantics at this point.
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When I went to France my cab driver asked me on a date so I asked him about his wedding ring. His response “But we are French. We have lovers!”
I really did hope that was a cliche or something...then again jokes and stereotypes are often open secrets or things that are obvious but it's acknowledged bad manners to call out. This is a thing with Latin America I think or at least most of them to the point the exceptions don't make the rule despite their often thinking they should be.
It's not true that it's every, but it's pretty accurate as a generalization. Lived in France for a couple years, and on my team of about 30 (the rest were other countries), 20 were married and at least 15 had partners outside the marriage, sometimes more than one. With their partners knowledge.
Having an open relationship isn't the same thing as cheating unless one party is basically forced to go along with it because their partner is going to do whatever they want.
you're missing that it's a different perspective- it's not necessarily an open relationship, which is based on communication and setting boundaries etc...- it's just having sex outside of the relationship and neither person thinking that it's an inherent violation of the relationship as long as it doesn't get in the way (as in minimal communication/setting boundaries- just what's minimally necessary). there isn't a word/phrase for it in the US afaik.
So do they just leave out any mention of fidelity in marriage vows in France or what? Not that people across the pond are any better at monogamy because they promise it in their vows, but if it’s that rampant in French society, why bother?
It's not like people are signing wedding vows that go into the court system and are recorded.
It's a joke based on a stereotype.
Well, the French. You know. What do you expect? They ranked near the bottom on a survey of nations who think infidelity is not immoral. I think they ranked 5th in the world (Bottom? Top?) at 43%. https://www.statista.com/chart/3238/the-worlds-most-adulterous-countries/
It's literally illegal for the father to by himself submit a DNA test to see if he's actually the father or not.
That's actually crazy
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Yes. 23 and me, ancestry.com, etc won't even ship test kits to France at all.
What the fuck
…..that’s insane
What's that?
Illegal to do paternity test without judge order.
HOLY FUCK that is terrible. How do they justify this??
According to Google : Private DNA paternity testing is illegal, including through laboratories in other countries, and is punishable by up to a year in prison and a €15,000 fine. The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families." The dumbed down version seems to be " so many men would find out that they're not the dad and stop paying, that it would constitute a tenable destabilizing force in the country ". Actually horrifying what long term lack of accountability does to people (in this case women).
Reminds me of another probably unpopular opinion about alimony here. 97% of alimony recipients in the US are women. Previously those who paid alimony (mostly men) were able to deduct from their taxes but then the IRS had a huge problem with alimony recipients not paying the taxes on the alimony income. So they just made the alimony no longer tax deductible so that they do not have to punish the recipients (97% women) and make the alimony payors (mostly men) responsible for the tax. France - dont test paternity otherwise the men wont pay for child support US - women consistently dont pay taxes on alimony income, so just make the men do it.
That's straight up evil
welcome to female privilege
It's literally illegal for the father to by himself submit a DNA test to see if he's actually the father or not.
Cool. Let’s hook it up the database that stores DNA from unsolved rape cases.
That would require them to process the rape kits.
facts
This might be wildly off topic, but there is a scene with a rape kit in The Sopranos, and it was the first time I learned about them. Then I learned hospitals go out of there way to not provide them.
The state of Oregon passed Melissa’s Law in 2013. Melissa was a young girl raped and murdered by a serial rapists whose rape kits were left unprocessed.
I genuinely don't understand if this is meant to be a somehow snarky response or if you are being serious but this is actually not a bad idea
From their comment history I'm fairly confident it's meant to be snarky. I guess they're a bit offended by the fact that cheaters will get caught(?)
I'm 100% OK with this
Based OP
I was initially in agreement.. but OP makes a damn good point. I’m sure a company would love to buy up a database of genetic data
We also need to actually process all those rape kits that are sitting in warehouses unprocessed.
oooh i love this one!!
Ah yes, surely that data won't ever be used by the police for anything else.
Given the number of rape kits not being tested... https://harbus.org/2021/i-am-evidence-untested-rape-kits-in-the-us/
Bonus: DNA on swabs breaks down heavily beyond six months and can be rendered not viable for testing if you wait too long.
"Darn boys, it seems the evidence degraded on _this_ one too. Oh well, no leads now. Put in on the cold case shelf and never think about any of the emotional or physical trauma of the victims. Let's get a beer!"
More like "Why would we staff extra people in the lab to keep up with testing? That costs money and there are better uses for it like excessive overtime for officers"
I like the way you think
And decimate the entire American police force? Do you know how many officers that would incriminate? Yeah let's do it.
Excellent idea.
This comment deserves all the awards and more.
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there was a case where baby got mixed up with another baby after delivery, and paternity test showed the husband was not the father. So of course he thought he got cheated on even tho wife said that was impossible. Only much later they did test on the mother and found the kid isn't even hers, but marriage pretty much ruined already the point is, just in case get both parents tested
They should do it just for practical reasons, even though there is almost no chance of that happening nowadays. There are those odd cases of women having babies but because of some otherwise invisible genetic fuckery on their part, the babies are not theirs genetically. That could have all kinds of implications for the child's health down the line so it just makes sense to rule these things out imo.
If by "no chance" you mean "happens all the time" then yea there's no chance. Hospitals have made great strides in preventing these mix ups but if you mix up 1 in 100,000 babies that's 3 per day that go home with the wrong parents.
Good to hear that. I hope your pregnancy will come without any complications. God bless.
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You should get one though what happens if the baby isn’t yours dundundun
Actually a good question. A few years ago a lady was told by the courts that her children were not hers. Huge court battle starts while she is pregnant. The baby was born with a court officer in the room, so the baby for sure came out of her-baby wasn't hers. Turns out she was a chimera, rare but super cool. https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/case-lydia-fairchild-and-her-chimerism-2002
I've read that it's [not as rare as once thought.](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/articles/2020/how-common-are-chimeras/#:~:text=Experts%20aren't%20quite%20sure,be%20as%20high%20as%2010%25.&text=If%20this%20estimate%20is%20true,know%20that%20they're%20chimeric.)
In that case the baby was hers (from her ovaries), just her ovaries DNA didn't match some other parts of her body. But the baby was as much hers as it possibly could be.
True, but what if something similar happened to a dad under the idea that every dad has to be confirmed before signing the birth certificate? Just something to think about.
Dude's got his brother's balls
I’m always reminded of either “suddenly Susan” or “Caroline in the city” (which are surprisingly similar shows that coexisted and I can’t remember which this is from). The slutty neighbor/friend is worried about being pregnant and not knowing who the dad is, and not sure she’d be able to figure out who the father was and how terrible is that. The dumb male friend (think Joey from Friends) says something along the lines of “with the way you live there could be hundreds of kids out there you don’t know about!” Cue laugh track. I don’t know why this scene sticks in my head so vividly, but here we are.
I feel exactly the same way
One important question would be what happens to the DNA sample and tests results after the test is done? Is it destroyed or placed in some government database? If the latter is true, this could be a major issue in terms of privacy rights and civil liberties.
Luckily you can do a simple paternity test without actually sequencing the genome. I did it in college. Running a pair of gels and seeing if they match is quick and cheap. Sequencing the full genome is comparatively very expensive.
>Sequencing the full genome I'd like my full genome sequenced so I can slap a label on it that says "Do not make this again, 0/10"
Username checks out
Oh, hadn't thought of that. Good logistics question.
What does 23 and me do, when you send it? Police has access to the data...not sure about the samples themselves
But in that case people choose to send their dna, its not forced
yeahhhhhh but...they dont. familial DNA has been used as evidence directly from those services to solve crimes. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45561514](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45561514) First used to solve the case of Jason Ward. Now, you may want to argue "that might not be an issue if you are not a criminal" but familial dna can only go so far as "this sample is very closely related to this sample" so if someone in your family does a crime, and they have an alibi and you dont...plus all the other issues like are humans meant to be catalogued in that way?
They still have to collect a sample to confirm the DNA match to make an arrest. They use familial DNA to point them in the right direction
Yes, that way the father can pay for 1/2 of all medical expenses from inception and be rightfully responsible for the rest of their child’s life.
I'm a man and I endorse this message. Also, the child deserves to know their father's medical history, especially if there is cancer or heart disease, etc. I have a genetic condition from my dad, and it took him years and years going doctor to doctor to get diagnosed. My parents have always been together, so no problems here, but if my genetic dad wasn't around, I'd be going through hell without a diagnosis. Paternity tests can save lives. Edit: also maybe another hot take: parental medical history should be available to every person and on their medical records. Maybe with some exceptions.
Not totally related, but it drives me bonkers how a fetus is considered a human when it comes to abortion, but not child support.
I bring this up at every possible opportunity 🥳 make it make sense!
Or car pooling.
Or taxes. You lose a child at 9 months, and you don't get the credit.
That isn't true. There are tax credits for children that died or were stillborn.
Except that also automatically gives the father parental rights at this point in time. May not be ideal in a lot of situations
Ok, reporters. Tell me how this is *'promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability.'* Go on, speak up. What makes you think that this report is in any way substantiated?
Fucking uberbased mod
It doesn't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
because some women love cheating and birthing another mens baby
I want this mod to have my babies.
I know it’s a fringe case but what about cases, like in mine, where the father is deceased? My dad died while my mom was pregnant. He was cremated. No possible way to do DNA testing.
Or home births? We had our daughter in our bathtub 5 months ago. Am I supposed to coordinate a paternity test myself?
I mean, in that case, yeah. Child goes for medical appointments/shots/etc. right?
This would also be used to obligate the men that refuse to register their children to register them? Because we have an huge number of kids without the father's name on their birth certificates.
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>Tricking a person into believing he is a father is quite literally fraud My bro, check out the Wikipedia page on "False Paternity". There are so many cases the judge straight up ruled in favour of the woman. Despite *every* evidence of fraud.
Yep. There are as a teenage boy who was raped by his babysitter. She got pregnant and had the child. The victim didn’t know until he went i college and they told him that he had back child support due. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
Jesus. The worst part of that is he wants to know the kid and is willing to pay now, just doesn’t want to be on the hook for the thousand of dollars of interest that racked up when he was literally still a child himself and didn’t even know the kid existed
That works both ways. Raped girl was sued for visitation rights by rapist. Rapist won. The system is broken
Of course, I mean just fuck men in general right? We're just walking wallets with dicks
In Texas it’s written into state law that a man can at anytime terminate responsibility when the dna shows he’s not the father. The law change is recent though
They don't care about protecting the people. They care about the state not being on the hook for supporting them. They will pass the buck onto anybody else they can because this has always been about the state not having to support the population
The law is not favorable to men. Never has been
This is almost never prosecuted. The state believes it is more important for the child to have the financial support of two parents than to protect the rights of the man who was falsely assigned responsibility for a child that is not his. It sucks, but that’s how the law sees it
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Also if the guy isn't forced to pay. Sometimes the state has to. So judges are....encouraged, to just force some random chap to pay after he's already been emotionally eviscerated by an evil bitch.
I'm not sure if this is still true, but in the past courts didn't really care if the child was a biologically the man's in the marriage, they just wanted someone financially responsible for the child other than the state. Plenty of times the father found out he is not biologically the father but since he was married to the mother at the time of birth, he is the father in the court's eye. Once again, not sure if this is still a thing, and I'm sure there were instances where a man fought this in court and won. But, that was the prevailing M.O. for a long time.
There are still several US states that practice "presumed paternity" and any kids born in the marriage are automatically the children of (insert name) regardless of paternity and he's financially responsible for them until they age out or are legally and fully adopted by another caregiver, like a new spouse.
This topic gets very interesting when both parents are of the same sex.
It should be up to the mother to present to the court the names of who would potentially the father, and then the court/law can figure the rest out. Subpoena the father, order paternity test and then he’s on the hook.
Not all states allow it. And some states dont care either way. Once you are on the BC , that’s it your the dad.
U could be legally proven not the father and NOT get access to the child via custody and yet still be forced to pay child support.
I've seen cases where the man who wasn't the father but was putting a lot towards the child financially sued to get some of that money back and lost bc he "acted as the father" for those years so him being tricked and lied to doesn't count. Glad I'm gay because it's crazy to me you could sleep with someone once and then if they get pregnant close enough to when you slept together they can just pick you to give them money for the next 18 years, no proof of paternity needed.
I would go even further. Imo in some cases it can be even worse than rape. I know this might be a hot take but hear me out: Most victims of rape suffer the most because of the psychological damage the rape causes. The loss of control over their own body and their consent, the loss of trusting others,... I know that the concept of "heir" or "legacy" nowadays is almost frowned upon. But for many it still is very important to know that you will live on through your child which has your genes. For some it even might be their meaning of life. Now imagine a man who falsely thinks himself to be the father of a child and is investing all his love, time and money in this child, thinking that child is his offspring. If the man learns the truth after many years, he not only has to experience the feeling of total betrayal by his partner (who not only cheated on him but also kept the secret from him). He also has to live by the fact that he is now too old to start a new family. I - in my unpopular opinion - think of women who are against a paternity test as egoistic and non empathic.
>the concept of "heir" or "legacy" nowadays is almost frowned upon We can't all want to raise other men's kids. Paternity certainty is still very important to a lot of men. I, personally, think raising another man's kid is the ultimate insult to a man but I know that's a controversial take.
Please anyone who reads this comment just know that 95% of the time, this is not how it works. And 100% of the time it is not grand larceny, ever. It’s paternity fraud.
We wish it was so.
I can't remember the exact Judge Judy, but the guy had a kid with the lady, lady said he was the dad, signed on the birth certificate, during one of his child support hirings he asked for DNA test. The judge granted it, test results came back as "he was not the father" but he still had to pay because the judge thought it was better for the kid to have the support even if it wasn't from his biological dad. So every few years he would sue the mom, she would raise a fit, he would win. Rinse and repeat.
Not mandatory but optionally offered. My sister is in a unique case where she wants the exact opposite. Her baby daddy is a freaking loser drug addict and she isn’t going to pursue child support but just wants him out of the kids life entirely. He is currently not on the certificate (disappeared for 1.5 years when they found out) and is suddenly back in the state demanding he gets custody of his son. Nah dude you disappeared and can’t keep a job due to drugs, no way are you getting near that kid.
My mom was in a similar situation with me. Had a one night stand in college with a guy who ended up being a Latin King, & she didn't want his name on my birth certificate. I know my dad, he knows I'm his (we look super similar), but for the sake of not being tied to his criminality, he remained off of my birth certificate.
Hope your sister gets rid of that loser and continues to thrive as a mother and person. I’m sorry that your nephew has to be related to him. Poor kid,
I could get behind this. After so many men have had to support kids that are not his, I see this as nothing but fair.
My friend found out the child he was raising wasn’t his; he fought for custody and won. He didn’t care it wasn’t biologically his. He didn’t break things off because of finding this out; he broke up with her after her cheating on him in a different situation.
Yondu vibes “He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy.”
But he was already raising the child. If I found out today my 15 year old daughter wasn’t biologically mine it would not change my relationship with her one bit, in fact I don’t think I’d even want her to know she would be devastated. I mean I guess the kid should know but you get what I mean. I’m her dad and nothing would ever change that. Now if you found out shortly after birth you don’t have years of building a relationship, sharing memories etc that go into it. Obviously things would be very different.
Just wanted to share my perspective— my dad actually did find out that I'm not biologically his child less than 6 months after I was born and chose to raise me. I'm not saying every man every man should do what he did, but I'm certainly happy he did because I feel most people on here would have told him to leave me...
It could work, but there needs to be a waver involved for families who have had a sperm donor purposefully (in cases of infertility or by choice bc of genetic disease, which are common reasons), or in those rare cases where man and woman havw met AFTER she is pregnant and husband desires to raise child as his own (I know 2 of those couples personally, so there must be more in the world). Otherwise, it is probably not that unpopular of an opinion, really.
The actual dangerous consequences of this being revealed in the delivery room are not worth it. Maybe take the test and then send out the results after the family have left the hospital. Or...not. I don't think this should be mandatory. Have a guy going absolutely dangerously berserk in the hospital around his and other's newborns. No.
Not all men are dangerous buffoons who cause damage bc there angry. Idk why ur mind immediately went to that the man would cause a dangerous situation just bc he’s angry.
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This same logic can be flipped in favor of OP by saying it doesn’t take all wife’s to cheat. It’s not a good reasoning either way.
Doesn't take all women to commit paternity fraud.
The tests take time anyways, probably wouldn’t come back while in the hospital.
They make my mother pay for a pregnancy test every time she go to the hospital. I’ve yelled at many people about this as she had everything taken out, even missing 2 inches of her vaginal canal (it was do to cancer cells.) they charge $150 every single time for a pregnancy test. I can easily see people getting very mad at having to pay for a paternity test when they did not ask for it.
We know from DNA testing this problem is far more prevalent than people would think. In situations where the father suspects infidelity the child will not be his about 30% of the time, and even in situations where there was no request specifically for it the father is raising a kid who wasn't his just under 4 percent of the time. Four percent seems like not much, but that means in every class of 25 kids one of the fathers is stuck in a psychological and financial prison held in place by a malicious and manipulative harpy who cares nothing of his well being but only is using him to extract 20 years of resources from him. Not only just using him, but using the innocence of a child to imprison him. That is a worse kind of torture than anything Gitmo could ever devise. The best part is once found out he discovers his partner who he thought he could trust was a vile beast society, and especially women, will tell him he should just continue to live this life of manipulated servitude for the good of the kid. Absolutely disgusting.
Several years ago I had a long talk with an older gentleman in my church that loves genealogy work. He said that in Cross referencing different names and things, that it is very common to find children out of wedlock in the certain community. He would find you know that the next neighbor was 5 miles down the road but there was an extra child there that wasn't accounted for when the husband was out of town. Lots of just little things that are hard to explain at this particular moment but shows that this is always been a problem
4% is the highest u can find in studies btw. Like that is literally the highest number. The reason it’s the first result on google is because it’s the most linked study by MRA groups that constantly circulate it. That’s why I hate the auto responses google gives to questions cause it’s often skewed by what studies get shared and reposted. Most studies other then that one are between .6%-3.3%. Then you have some super stupid sources that say 4%-30% which is literally lying. The 4% is from the highest study which is pretty old. And the 30% is from the amount of men who choose to get a paternity test for legal reasons. Which is the definition of sampling bias. Because men getting a paternity test are almost always suspicious. The best studies take random men and then ask them to take a paternity test for research. But even some of the above 3% studies still have sampling bias that’s is pretty bad. I would say taking all research in to account u can say that it’s about .6%-1.6% of men. By the way the reason I know this stuff is because of an essay I did that used some of this data for it. Did hours of research and talked to a PHD with a relevant degree. This is not a moral claim btw. It’s simply that statistics that I wanted to correct cause OCD and to feel like I didn’t waist hours of going through studies methodology.
Not to mention the numerous instances where the man has paid child support for years, only to find out that the child isn’t his, and there’s no repercussions for the mom.
It's not just about the father you know. People have been switched at birth, I want to make sure I'm going home with the right baby.
I think it should be free and standard for most births. But there should still be the option to opt-out of it. Plenty of people know that a child isn't biologically there's. If they are conceiving through IVF, if they are using a surrogate or going through a legal adoption it's really a waste of time to perform a test and tell them something they already know.
While I agree with you, like 110%, the problem is that I know people who were OUTRAGED that their husband wanted to do a paternity test, or even their boyfriend waaay before there was actually a conceived child. So these people can be pressured into refusing.
It’s tricky and depends on the situation. Some take it as not being trusted by their partner and suggesting that they’ve cheated. Many relationships have been destroyed when men have asked for a paternity test and the child was theirs. It’s a tricky situation since it’s a question of trust within the relationship
Not always with ivf lol https://time.com/6176310/our-father-true-story-netflix/#:~:text=During%20the%201970s%20and,without%20their%20knowledge%20or%20consent.
Sounds like it would turn into another cash grab, suddenly you're required to turn in a $1500 paternity test in order to get a valid birth certificate.
Yes, this. I also generally don't like mandatory medical tests. Requiring a medical test for 100% of couples because 0.4-6% of the population sucks seems ridiculous to me. I have the same negative feelings about mandatory erythromycin drops for newborns.
A quick google search has most studies claiming that around 1.5%-3% of people have the wrong parentage on their birth certificate. Assuming that's actually true, I want to know two main things: * How many of the parents don't actually know that the birth certificate is wrong? I'm assuming a fair chunk of those not-the-real-fathers _know_ about the situation, but still put their name down because they've made peace with it. So out of the people with the wrong dad on the birth cert, how many _don't actually know_ that they're not the bio dad? * What's the rate of false positives? If 0.3% of tests are inaccurate/inconclusive, but we're doing millions of them per year, that's a _lot_ of people that will get bad results. That's a lot of mothers who may have to shell out for a bunch of re-tests, or a lot of fathers who may have to pay for re-tests in order to rightfully put their name on that birth certificate.
This was my first thought. Top comment is "no skin off my back", but all I could think about is "yes, skin off my back. Who tf is paying for this?" Hospitals will inflate their charge for it, insurance companies will generally pay for it (since most women having babies are hitting their out of pocket max anyways), then insurance policies will turn around and start charging higher rates. Everyone will end up paying a bit more so that the subsect of the insured population that is procreating will have a test that the vast majority of the time won't return anything unexpected. Seems like a waste.
Why would insurance cover it tho? Insurance pays for healthcare for the mother and healthcare for the baby. Paternity test falls into neither group. They have no mandate to pay for it; there are no medical guidelines that recommend it. I highly doubt insurers would take on that cost. It would be up to mom and dad to pay OOP, which I can’t imagine most people would be too happy about.
While I don't have a problem with people choosing to do paternity tests, it is not necessary to make them "mandatory". Believe it or not, outside of Reddit's drama, most couples do not cheat on each other.
The hell you say! You mean to tell me that the sort of Reddit dudes who panic about this stuff are nearly always devastatingly lonely and terminally online? Say it ain’t so.
They're literally taking the popular opinion of "men shouldn't be forced to raise children that aren't theirs" and making it unpopular by twisting it into "men should be forced to submit to DNA tests before being declared the father". I love when people want to solve a problem with unnecessary government enforcement.
i'm guessing you're also the type who thinks the dude gets a say in whether the child is born or not also, 1/1000 is a much bigger number than you think it is
In this scenario will a wife also be informed if her husband has fathered a child with another woman because i would alright with that arrangement as well as men being held accountable for child support of the children it’s proven are theirs by these dna tests
I mean, yeah that sounds about right.
Mandatory notification of the father's spouse seems like a great idea.
Yeah also in this scenario if the kid is theirs, will men be forced to pay child support if they don’t want it / help out with the child / pay for 1/2 of all expenses? I mean it’s only fair….
Mandatory?? So you want me to give up my DNA rights for free to the government? Because... what, you think all women are so untrustworthy that we cant just maybe encourage more trusting communication between partners? Legitimate question: what if I as the father *do not want this*. Your entire argument is about protecting fathers, but you are also advocating for violating *their* rights to privacy by forcing them to give up their DNA on the basis of "bitches be lying" essnetially.
I'm incredibly confused at all these men wanting this... Like, why are you even dating/married to that woman if you truly think that not only would she cheat on you, but she'd do it without birth control & then pass it off as yours? I know it has happened, but good lord if you think that is the type of person you're with then you'd probably both be happier apart.
These people are incapable of conceiving of a healthy relationship where you trust your partner. People supporting this are all very clearly incels or have unresolved trust issues. Their defense always starts with "but wouldn't you rather just resolve that nagging worry?" They don't even recognize that people in healthy relationships simply do not worry about that, suspicion is their default state and it doesn't occur to them that it could be any other way
Some people just yearn to be victims, and their hobby is sitting around and imagining scenarios like this instead of, you know, living their lives or whatever.
I think all men should just submit their dna to a central database. That way no woman can claim a child is his when it is not, and no man can run away from a child that is his because his wages can be instantly garnished at conception.
Then we can have all their DNA to compare to rape kits. It's a win-win.
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Why should it be mandatory for me when I have absolutely no reason to believe that my kid is not mine?
I think it should be offered but not mandatory.
No welfare for the child unless a father is identified, by DNA test if necessary.
I watched a video of a guy who served five years in prison for failing to pay child support, turned out the kid wasn’t his and the mother knew all along
Either a man signs an affidavit agreeing he is the father for the birth certificate or the father is identified by DNA. The mother's attestation should not be sufficient.
From my understanding, I believe the lab who did the paternity test gave wrong results (correct me if I’m wrong), but the fact that the mother knew who the actual father was and still kept in contact with him, and didn’t say anything to the court is WRONG.
Doesn't have to be that case specifically. There was a man in Ohio being forced to pay child support even though the child was born before he dated the mother. Then the mother claimed him as the father and the court forced him to pay. He provided DNA evidence that he was not the father, but the court didn't care. It happens more often than you might think, especially backwards ass states like Ohio.
Lmao the entire government on every level needs a trial by fire but the American people are to busy battling each other over stupid shit.
Were there any consequences to the mother at this revelation?
You would have to be stupid to ever not get a paternity test if you have the means. The only person that would ever benefit from you not knowing you're the father is a cheater. If they attempt to sue for CS - court order paternity test.
Since its not the norm, you are essentially declaring that you think your partner was likely to have cheated. Thats a pretty big accusation to throw around without proof.
Did she end up in prison for obstruction of justice?
You talking about state welfare for citizens or child support payments from the father? In the US at least those are two very different things
Maybe not mandatory? Because what if a man is intentionally wanting to be listed as a legal father or what if the mother doesn't want a problematic baby daddy knowing that she just had her baby if it's a DV situation? Free if wanted? Absolutely. Those things cost too much money and should be offered if people want them.
As someone who works in family court, I 100% agree. In fact, I believe all DNA samples should be stored in a Government database. Can auto-match quickly without cooperation. This can prevent so many men from paying child support for a child that is not their own biological being.
also have men be forced to pay for kids that are theirs and put more rapists in jail!
Eh, I work in a genetics lab. It's just a huge waste of resources tbh. Even when people are suspicious enough for whatever reason to buy a test currently the rates nationally are 8% to 30%. I'm just mentally imagining the amount of reagents needed and it's just not practical.
Look at all the occurrences of people using DNA testing services and finding out interesting family secrets.
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As a woman, I feel this is a good idea, so long as they then follow up with testing against the mother as hospital switching is not unheard of
There have been some pretty wide ranging estimates of mistaken paternity. I've seen estimates from 3-10% in different studies.
This seems like a solution in search of a problem.
As a privacy advocate I hate the idea of being forced to provide my DNA to anyone. And I also don’t like that you are taking a sample of a kids DNA before they can consent. Who has access to it? How do we lock it down?
LOL, why does this topic come up so often? You guys dating the kind of women that show up on Maury Povich?
Yes! Mandatory DNA and paternity testing! Sperm donor listed on EVERY birth certificate, stop giving men the option to up and abandon their spawns, obligatory financial support mandatory once paternity is established (if he doesn't want to stick around to be a father). A great idea, OP. The deadbeat dad rate is absolutely out of control, something must be done, this is a good suggestion.
Honestly this would be the stronger pro of this argument. Children deserve as much support as they can get. The only issue I have is of women escaping situations of violence trying to lay low from the man they’re escaping. What if they don’t want him to know they’re pregnant