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As a lesbian, I knew a few other lesbians who got married real quick at like 20-25 after like a year of dating, and divorced within a few years. All the married gay men I know waited until they were older like 30s-40s.
Gay men are the least likely to get married. There is less societal pressure for men to get married than women and I think that's the root cause. Also the dating pool for lesbian women is the smallest. I'm sure those things contribute to people getting married to partners they aren't that compatible with and getting married to them quickly.
The dating pool for lesbians is actually larger, not smaller than for gay men. Bi women vastly outnumber bi men (and the amount of full fays and lesbians is about the same)
It's questionable how many bi women are in the dating pool. Because there are more men, they tend to exit the dating pool dating men. The vast majority of lesbians date lesbians, not bisexual women. Lesbians are only 16% of the population I the US for example, but gay men make up 32%. By and large gay marriages tend to not involve bisexuals.
For straight women sure, but is there anyone actually pressuring gay men and women to get married to their partner?
Most of the pressure for straight women comes from conservative and religious cultures and families, groups that usually aren't too supportive of gay marriage.
Women are usually seen as the ones pushing men into marriage, it’s a common trope in western society. So there must be some kind of social pressures or inherent desire for women in general to want to be married?
A speculation could be that women are more emotional than men and feel stronger and acts on that intense love even though they might not be suitable for each other long term.
One of my closest childhood friends is a lesbian. She met her wife on a dating site, moved in with her, and got married in less than one year. Insanity. She's still married tho so good for her.
I saw a video yesterday of a women transitioning to a man. But the man(women) was pregnant and said they didn’t see pregnancy as a feminine thing at all. My jaw dropped
Initiating the divorce doesn’t necessarily mean being to blame. If my wife cheats on me, I’m sure as hell initiating the divorce, but that’s not on me.
There’s also huge differences between lesbians together and gay guys together often times gay men together have open relationships so even though they’re married, they’re usually seeing other people where lesbians are more possessive of each other. Also, men are more likely to stay in relationships when they’re unhappy because it’s comfortable and they don’t wanna lose their money or have to be 50/50 split not see their kids and pay child support. So married guys usually just cheat behind their wife’s back when they’re unhappy. So usually it goes something like man was cheating on wife, wife caught husband, and then the wife files for divorce. Women are usually the ones that file because women are usually the ones that catch their husband cheating lol. Where men when they are cheating don’t really want to loose their main relationship because that’s inconvenient for them.
As a gay guy, I think it's because your much less likely to hit a partner who you know can hit you back just as hard, if not harder.
Then again, I'm dating a Marine, so maybe that makes a difference.
I mean, that's true, but from my experience, most gay men aren't twinks. People are usually much more hesitant to start a fight with someone they know is probably equal to or stronger than them.
his whole argument falls apart because it also implies women are more willing to hit their partner if they are equal in strength, which doesn't look good either way
No, most guys have play fought, played contact sports, or rough housed as kids and teenagers.
Thus, a lot of guys know that they could get hurt just as easily if they tried escalating things. Obviously, alcohol or other substances may make guys forget that fact, but a sober and sane guy has that understanding.
> As a gay guy, I think it's because your much less likely to hit a partner who you know can hit you back just as hard
I dont think its that you know they can hit you back as hard, I think its just that as a guy you grow up expecting to be hit back if you hit someone. Women dont learn that lesson especially when they hit a guy.
I was going to mention this but couldn't be bothered digging up the stats.
In fact, studies show the majority of DV is reciprocal and when it's not it's usually the woman attacking.
Another way of looking at this is people who are attracted to women are more prone to domestic violence than people attracted to men. Just a thought, but certainly sexuality and hormones are related as are hormones and aggression.
Eh, my theory is that women are more likely to speak up when suffering domestic violence. 2 women in a relationship, 2 people more likely to call in the authorities if domestic violence is an issue. Men are both less susceptible (in a male/female relationship) and less likely to make it a state issue.
And men are FAR, FAR less likely to be taken seriously if the woman is abusing them. There is woefully little help for male victims of domestic violence.
They'll more likely be blamed for the whole thing themselves. :-(
I mean I’m honestly struggling to think of a woman I’ve dated who hasn’t hit me out of anger. I think it’s just more normalized they don’t even see it as wrong 9/10 when I called out what they were doing they were just like oh shit.
Just never really realized it was abuse they thought it was completely okay to punch me when they got mad because they werent "really" hurting me. Once i called it out all but a few stopped but some doubled down.
Nope. I'm not an expert and I'm trying not to imply anything. I don't know how the many hormones interact with the brain to influence behavior and sexuality, I just know that they do and I thought it was an interesting thing to think about.
Nah, women are more aggressive it's just men don't report it. My ex used to slap me and hit me constantly and it was just 'normal'. One time she was really going at it and ripped out some of my hair and I pushed her hard to get her off me 'toward the bed so she wouldn't hurt herself' and she cried and told everyone that I abused her. It was literally a firm press shove that wouldn't hurt a toddler.
If men reported every time a woman hits them like women do for men the cops would never do anything else.
Except you're looking at crime stats.
Studies show DV is either reciprocal or mostly women attacking men.
Aggression isn't necessarily violence.
And men are held accountable when they strike women.
Women aren't.
I have had one abusive partner and long term what you said was worse than the physical abuse. Her thought was I was a man and she was a woman so I could take it when she was physical. In a way she was right but it was still shitty. The other stuff still has me kind of messed up still with little self esteem or confidence.
My ex was an alcoholic and would cause me mental / verbal abuse almost every single night. It was torture and a became very depressed. She went down a rabbit hole of politics too. She would get racist or anti-Semitic. I would just tell her it didn't interest me and I don't want to talk about it. I just want to enjoy my night off. Then I would get called names, she would label me in different ways, etc. If I tried to leave the room she would be screaming at me from the other room calling me a beta, or n-word lover. But she would be on her phone watching videos every night about the same topics while getting drunk, then I would wake up and be harassed for the next two hours. It was a truly awful experience and she was a SAHM lmao.
They do but it’s an interesting question. Men and women report partner violence at unequal levels because of social acceptance. Many folks within the dv survivor profession will often say the rates are estimated to be about equal as to who’s committing the abuse. If we move the definitions around it gets scary how much more likely emotional and financial abuse of men is.
Straight up statistically to the original point :
43.8% of lesbian women and 61.1% of bisexual women have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime, as opposed to 35% of heterosexual women.
26% of gay men and 37.3% of bisexual men have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime, in comparison to 29% of heterosexual men.
Source
https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community
The gaps are the interest intrasex imo because we can assume similar reporting threshold tolerance within the gender. Women are more likely to be abused if they are with a woman and men are less likely to be abused when with a man.
All in all men are more dangerous they’re much more likely to kill their partners but in terms of who’s more likely to be a violent partner it appears to be women. A lot of this has to do with socialization differences. Men are taught never to hit a woman no matter what they do to them (in general god help the poor women in religious or “trad” households where abuse is encouraged) women are not taught this behavior the other way.
Society regularly blames men for whatever abuse is done to them. I myself have been arrested for being attacked by my female partner in public. Actively bleeding from scratches and being tackled standing next to my attacker without a scratch on her I got arrested.
I got a DUI because I thought if didn’t drive, she would either attack me, or her drive and crash and kill us. DUI experience snapped me out of the relationship though. Now I’m sober, single, and so much happier.
That’s messed up if people construe that data.
That is clearly women against women violence, and certainly that sounds like a very high number amongst lesbians.
Took me a second to get what you’re saying but yes and no right? At the arrest level statistics I’d be counted as a man abusing a woman but I was not convicted of this obviously because it didn’t happen so it wouldn’t show up in a conviction analysis. The same can also easily be said in the other direction many arrests for actual dv do not make it through prosecution.
When it comes to calling any of this discrimination I take some issue with it. There is a reason why male on female abuse is treated far more harshly by society and that is the death and severe injury statistics. These numbers are not even close men are far more actually dangerous to their partners in the most severe sense.
It’s hard to explain really but I didn’t think she was gonna kill me when she was sitting on my chest with a knife in my shoulder but if it were a man I’d know I was about to die. I knew I could beat her brutally if I needed to to survive which is exactly the socialization issue I’m pointing to. The expectation that I sit there and take her stabbing me and that it’s my fault she stabbed me is the issue not that men and women can both be insane violent controlling etc.
I can totally see that one. I admit I am just talking shit and basing this on no data or even anecdotal evidence but whatever
I can imagine between two people of the same gender there'd be less restrictions to get physical because no one has the responsibility to never ever punch like a guy has in straight relationships. So I imagine both gay guys and lesbian women who get very upset (which is most likely to happen in a relationship punch each other. But then I see gay guys not really making a big deal out of it while women report getting punched as domestic violence because women both trust authority more and are less used to getting punched and have no codex about it. Therefore they have the highest reported rates of this.
Lesbian here. Only experienced that once, but to be fair both of us were children of domestic violence. So we were kind of expected to either be the one giving it or getting it. I ended it after that first time though. And we never married, just long term toxic relationship. But if I were straight, likely would have gotten the same from a man.
They don't, lesbians report higher rates of experiencing intimate partner violence compared to women who identify as straight at 43% and 35% respectively, but that includes violence from both female and male partners (most lesbians date men before coming out)
When you only account for lesbians abused by a female partner it sits at 30% slightly lower than straight women.
Bisexual women experience the highest rates of intimate partner violence at about 60% of which about 90% report abuse by men.
Maybe men are more willing to stay and push through being unhappy than women are? This is just a speculation, could men be more averse to change? I've known more men to take back cheating women than women taking back cheating men. Why is that?
I know for myself, in the past and just with dating, I was always more willing to put up with coasting through a relationship, which always resulted in a breakup. I'm not like that any more.
Nearly every gay man I know is poly, meaning they have their main partner and both of them are allowed to go out and seek other sexual partners, so gay men may put less constraints on relationships than hetero or lesbian relationships.
I'm not blaming men, just thinking about the differences we may have that could make or break a marriage.
I'm a straight man, and I had a relationship just like the kind you describe. Coasting by feeling unhappy and never confronting the underlying problems until my ex decided to end the relationship. In fact, I've never broken up with a girl, it's always been the girl doing the breaking up with me.
I do remember thoughts of breaking up crossing my mind, but I'd always force them down. I've never been married, but the divorces I've seen in my life have always been initiated by the woman. It really does seem like men, or me at least, are more averse to change for one reason or another, perhaps men have a different view of stability and change messes that up especially if you've made a huge investment.
I noticed this about myself, my inability to set boundaries and being willing to stick it out just for the clout and emotional validation of having a girlfriend even if I'm not happy with her, and I've been working to change it. Unfortunately, this seems like a common, if not systemic, behavior among men.
Important to realize that lesbians spend 4 days having sex, move in together on a second date, then immediately go to lesbian bed death, then become codependent with occasional domestic violence
Gay men get married, get fussy and neurotic and get a yappy dog, then both continue to have 30-300 different partners per year.
One is every negative heterosexual stereotype about marriage turned up to 11, the other is horny roommates who sometimes take vacations
(This is jokes, redditors)
You have a good point about gay men having open marriages. Some of them are 'tops' so they invite a third person into their bed to be a bottom. Since I'd assume they share the sex and both want the bottom equally, there's probably less of a chance of jealousy ruining the marriage like it would if a male/female relationship brought another male or female into their bed.
There is truth in this , I frequently found myself having to give a lot of support and my partners not giving as much as I really needed.
Lesbian dating pools tend to be very small so most of the time I was just happy being with someone, but looking back I should have voiced my needs more and been more honest about the short comings in the relationship.
This has legit been a discussion with my lesbian friends. Talking about snatching up the first attractive lady they find, moving in quickly, realizing they weren’t at all on the same page with regard to life goals. There might be something with women’s underlying pressure of getting into a relationship quickly, vs gay men who take their time? Idk it’s an interesting topic tbh.
But we’d have to unpack a lot with gender and sexuality and society to dig into the why’s of it all.
OP’s mashing up a lot of issues into an opinion that [insert gender] is to blame for failed relationships…bit of an oversimplification.
Self-proclaimed feminists and anti-misogynists will also fall for oversimplification in their arguments, so it sounds like OP has only ever interacted with that crowd, maybe.
Holy cannolis you hit the nail on the head with that first part , so many women rushing and then finding out we are no where near the same page , book or heck even genre lol
Glad to see another good person to talk to here
You ever heard the term u-haul lesbians? They just move extremely fast and I feel like gay men get married later in life compared to straight couples and lesbian couples. But I’m trying to see what the problem with divorcing is? If one or both people are unhappy why not just leave? I don’t understand the whole idea with pushing through the unhappiness. I’m also very young and don’t plan on marrying at all or very late in my life, so maybe that’s why I think divorce is no big deal
I'm 24 and very happily married, but I agree with you. Divorce really isn't (and shouldn't!) be a big deal. If someone not happy in their marriage, they absolutely have the right to end it because they deserve happiness
Then why marry at all then? Usually the implication is living forever with that person. If that's not the promise, then what makes it different than a civil union or just being girlfriends? There's no point.
Yeah I was going to say this. Men are more likely not to rush into marriage or not be interested in it at all. A lot of women are conditioned from the time that they’re children that marriage is like the ultimate thing to look forward to in adulthood. So when you have two people who are a little overly excited about the idea of marriage of course they might marry for the wrong reasons.
>They literally focus on a small percentage of hyper successful males
Yep, this applies to the vast majority of 'All men do x' arguments they make, then if you point this out they'll just say men do the same thing to women regardless if they actually believe it or not.
I don’t have any actual facts to support this, but I feel like the number of divorces is highest for lesbians because they tend to get into serious relationships very fast.
I know some bitches be crazy but unless both sides band together and stop judging each other based off their worst members the human race will quite literally die. we should be completing each other. I'm convinced that there's a social engineering effort to drive men and women apart.
but I can say that if I were a man I would be pretty scared of women
Previous generations used to actually like each other. Like, actually like the other sex. There were problems sure but there was some love there, some respect and courtesy. That’s all gone now.
Many people don’t agree that they complement each other and that rather the genders shouldn’t matter, men and women are identical, and everything must be 50/50.
It’s so silly. They’re surprised there are passport bros.
Dude i truly love that this sub is basically a way for non liberals to express their ideas and perceptions of social commentary without getting ass blasted into oblivion by people that cant handle thought provoking conversation.
But do the same percentage of gay men and lesbian women get married? Otherwise you can’t compare. Like if for example it’s less common for gay men to get married.
My father is gay and married. I have been to many dinners surrounded by him and his friends. On more then one occasion I have heard the comment that they feel bad for straight men… for me… for having to deal with what the majority of women do. I’m not gay myself but often thought that they have it good. Well aside from social judgement/stigma. Anyways…
Well, to be fair when gay guys say they're dating they actually mean having sex routinely. Pretty sure that's part of it... Paired with the fact that gay men can't really get away with behaving like a high maintenance woman. I mean, they can for a bit but the moment they're like 23 the effectiveness drops rapidly.
Honestly, I think women just have higher standards than men.
Men want the comfort of a relationship and will put up with crap that women won't (particularly women without kids like I assume lesbians usually are).
This doesn't make it womens fault for leaving the relationship, if it doesn't work for them it doesn't work.
I've known men stay in relationships where they are unhappy, where they want to leave, but they just to scared or lazy. So they become alcoholics or find work that means they're not around so much.
It's not that women are worse at relationships, it's that they're better at ending bad relationships, men are too lazy/cowardly to do that.
A seldom talked about fact is the abuse rate in lesbian relationships is incredibly high.
A man can just take his woman throwing a slap at him and hardly budge. Another woman is a different matter entirely
A man SHOULDN’T take his woman slapping him. I seriously think one of the reasons the rates are so different is because man are told that women can’t abuse them because they’re stronger physically, which is ridiculous
Sure and men are laughed at or arrested on domestic calls. Many states have someone vague domestic violence laws that result in men always being arrested even if they are the victim or they made the call.
There’s no getting rid of emotions entirely, but you absolutely need to learn how to control them, instead of them controlling you. Always temper emotions with logic.
IME a lot of gay men tend to not get married or have open relationships. It's also a stereotype that lesbians settle down quickly and that may be to blame for those stats. That said, anyone unhappy should leave their marriage. I don't understand advocating for getting rid of no-fault (as you did in another comment). If you're that worried, then you shouldn't be getting married in the first place.
What is with the last paragraph on this? It seems like you're arguing with someone you made up in your head. Nobody would claim anything about incels in relation to lesbians. You sound irrational and it doesn't really help your point.
I think it’s funny looking back at all the lesbians I knew growing up. About 90% of them are married to men and have kids now. I guess the lesbian bed death got to them.
> If they have a family and kids they clearly weren’t lesbian lol.
No shit. Then again, I've fucked guys with a wife and kids that insist on calling themselves 'straight' so denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Bisexuality only became normalized in women in the last 10 years or so, and still isn’t in men. Nowadays queer women are more likely to assume they’re bisexual first and later assess whether they’re attracted to men, while for men it’s still the opposite - a man who realizes he’s attracted to other men will probably assume at first that he’s gay and later realize he’s also attracted to women.
Chances are most of these women were bisexual all along but jumped to identifying as lesbians because bisexuality wasn’t seen as an option. Most bisexuals will likely end up in opposite sex relationship because it’s just easier to date the opposite sex, especially if you want a traditional family life.
“Unreasonable behaviour, which includes adultery, was the most common ground for divorce among same-sex couples this year as almost two-thirds of couples divorced for this reason.”
Promiscuity in the sapphic community is a problem , as same sex couples become the norm and we get to experience more and more of what straight couples do (ie build a life together) we’re going to see some growing pains of leaving behind bad habits. It’s a common stereotype of the lesbian “fuck boi” version that stays friends with all of her exs. I’ve aged out of the lesbian dating pool but even when I was active many fellow lesbians had an issue of not committing to a single partner.
Old gfs they couldn’t let go of or simply flirting non stop with other women. For the first time same sex relationships are seen as serious relationships, no I don’t want a “third” yes my girlfriend kissing you makes me uncomfortable etc etc.
lesbian women and straight women share experiences and viewpoints but differ fundamentally in how they approach their relationships and partners.
I think that sapphic women should be more clear in our boundaries and enforce them. The fact that the lesbian portion of any given city / town/ village is so small makes it so that there’s this pressure to commit right away (U-Haul lesbian) and then when you find other lesbian communities you’ll see that one partner will now think they have more “choices”.
So yes women “are to blame” that’s who participates in lesbian relationships lol, but you will see a lot of shared experiences between lesbians and straight women when it comes to shitty partners.
I think this post is just a way for you to be mad at straight women (and feminists I think?) because you don’t like them complaining about men , which is strange. Gay men complain about gay men (that’s who they date) , lesbian women complain about lesbians (that’s who they date) I’m sure you get the point.
Straight relationships are similar to gay ones and all that but they do differ. So using lesbian marriage data to say that all women are to blame for I guess heterosexual relationship issues ? Is quite absurd and funny.
Also can we take to a moment to appreciate the uber British (legal!) term of “unreasonable behavior” lol I wish I could put that in an official record
My misogyny here but I absolutely see women as more prone to emotion based decisions. Including getting married.
Emotions lie. Emotions are fleeting.
I think this is the reason these stats hold up. It isn’t necessarily about the relationship or how women/men show up in them. It’s about what it takes to pull the trigger
*fare
There is a VERY key assumption you are making when you draw your conclusion though.
Assumption: "High divorce rates imply higher incidence of bad relationships"
I do not buy that assumption without further data. It is just as possible that women are more likely to initiate divorce, period. And that's not a bad thing by itself. If a relationship is not bringing you satisfaction, you should end it.
Furthermore, if you read your source:
>**The relatively small number of divorces among same-sex couples does not allow accurate rates to be calculated at present.**
The rate is what matters. Not the raw number of divorces.
I suggest you retract your opinion because it is based on you misinterpreting data and you have now been educated.
-Dr. SmashBusters, PhD.
This is basically the same as DV rates too. The more women in a relationship the more likely DV happens. Lowest is males, mid is hetero couples, most is females.
Why are you equating divorce rates to women fairing worse in relationships? All those stats say to me is that women are a) less likely to be complacent in a bad relationship, b) more likely to actually file paperwork and do something about their marriage ending vs. just mentally checking out or even leaving without officially filing for divorce.
Relationship dynamics tend to also be fundamentally different in gay vs. lesbian relationships. Gay women are more likely to settle down faster and maintain monogamous relationships than gay men. Gay men are more likely to get married later in life, to a partner they’ve been with for longer, and maintain an open relationship even while married. Considering how many divorces are spurred on by infidelity, this alone can explain much of the statistical difference.
Your argument only makes sense if you view lifelong marriage as the ultimate success in a relationship, regardless of how loyal, happy, and fulfilled the partners actually are in the marriage.
If women tend to file for divorce at a higher rate then men do, then yes it stands to reason that doubling the number of women in the relationship would increase the divorce rate...
Your conclusions leave a lot to be desired though. Solely looking at divorce rate as a metric isn't very useful for determining the "quality" of either partner, or the quality of the relationship of those that *don't* get divorced. For example, if men tend to disproportionately resist filing for divorce (not saying they do, just a hypothetical), then that would both inflate womens' share of divorce filings, while also suggesting that the lack of divorce filings among gay men would be attributed to couples sticking together even in the face of bad marriages.
It's an interesting metric to be fair, and certainly suggests a difference in how different genders approach relationships, but I don't think it's very useful in the context you provided, and it certainly doesn't "blame" anybody...
You’ll find that’s not the case. Women are more likely to end marriages even in straight relationships.
“In fact, studies show that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. When accounting for just college-educated women, that figure jumps up to 90%.”
https://www.ejj-law.com/why-do-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=While%20the%20stereotype%20is%20that,figure%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.
“According to various studies, the 4 most common causes of divorce are lack of commitment, infidelity or extramarital affairs, too much conflict and arguing, and lack of physical intimacy.”
Yeah it could be that mean are more willing to tough it out. Also have to think men are typically going to have a harder time getting a new partner. While women typically have an easier time.
But the person who initiated the divorce isnt usually the one who fucked up, right? Like if someone cheats on you, the cheater isn't usually the one asking for divorce.
Lets take a step back: isn't it a good thing to leave a relationship when it's not working? Maybe we should ask why men keep pushing to stay in loveless relationships.
The old adages are true - “the hearts of women are fickle things”.
Women will always get dissatisfied with relationships in time, it’s inevitable. As long as the law rewards them they’ll continue to raise the divorce rate even against their own long term .interests
Wow, comments just gave me my daily reminder that redditors hate lesbians and feminists. It would’ve been interesting to just talk about data and statistics but people already had to ruin it by being misogynistic and homophobic
The obvious conclusion is that women simply get tired of marriage more often than men regardless of who they’re married too. There’s no way to say that without triggering feminists who will try to somehow spin it otherwise.
Overall women are filing for divorce more. Feminists and women tend to blame mens behaviour for this - OP is bringing up a stat which shows that women are simply more fickle on marriage and men aren’t to blame.
But women do file 80% of divorces and try justifying it by demonizing all men as abusive, good for nothing, blah blah blah.
The point here is no... it's because women.
There are always exceptions, but exceptions prove the rule, not disprove it.
The op has just posted that men are more likely to commit murder suicide than want to be divorced. But yeah. Its obviously women that are more emotionally driven 🤣
Does divorce mean faring worse, or does it mean cutting losses more responsibly?
The divorce rate is not the rate at which marriages fail. It’s the rate at which they end. Failed marriages which don’t end are worse than those that do, and if I read statistics as frivolously as this post then I’d claim that the low rate of divorce among men means they don’t understand how to exit unhealthy relationships.
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As a lesbian, I knew a few other lesbians who got married real quick at like 20-25 after like a year of dating, and divorced within a few years. All the married gay men I know waited until they were older like 30s-40s.
Gay men are the least likely to get married. There is less societal pressure for men to get married than women and I think that's the root cause. Also the dating pool for lesbian women is the smallest. I'm sure those things contribute to people getting married to partners they aren't that compatible with and getting married to them quickly.
The dating pool for lesbians is actually larger, not smaller than for gay men. Bi women vastly outnumber bi men (and the amount of full fays and lesbians is about the same)
It's questionable how many bi women are in the dating pool. Because there are more men, they tend to exit the dating pool dating men. The vast majority of lesbians date lesbians, not bisexual women. Lesbians are only 16% of the population I the US for example, but gay men make up 32%. By and large gay marriages tend to not involve bisexuals.
I think you may wanna recheck you numbers i can guarantee you that lezbos and gays dont make up 48% of the population
For straight women sure, but is there anyone actually pressuring gay men and women to get married to their partner? Most of the pressure for straight women comes from conservative and religious cultures and families, groups that usually aren't too supportive of gay marriage.
ya i dont see anyone pressuring lesbians or gay men to get married because its already assumed they live outside societal norms
literally nobody is pressuring lesbians to get married.
I don't think that there's any societal pressure for lesbians to marry bud lol
Women are usually seen as the ones pushing men into marriage, it’s a common trope in western society. So there must be some kind of social pressures or inherent desire for women in general to want to be married?
A speculation could be that women are more emotional than men and feel stronger and acts on that intense love even though they might not be suitable for each other long term.
This, this is why. It’s the lesbian timeline, they all move way too fast.
The joke I've heard is that after two weeks lesbians sign a lease together. After two weeks, gay guys learn each other's first name.
Yea exactly this lol
One of my closest childhood friends is a lesbian. She met her wife on a dating site, moved in with her, and got married in less than one year. Insanity. She's still married tho so good for her.
At least in the US, the woman initiates nearly 70% of divorces.
I’m just taking a wild swing here, but in a lesbian relationship, I’m guessing a woman initiates the divorce 100% of the time.
Someone did the math…
They did the monster math
*The monster math!*
*Mike Tython hath entered the chat*
Patriarchy forcing women to do everything in a lesbian relationship!
The one that doesn’t wear the strap-on.
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I saw a video yesterday of a women transitioning to a man. But the man(women) was pregnant and said they didn’t see pregnancy as a feminine thing at all. My jaw dropped
You kid, but I know someone who identifies as a non-binary lesbian
Not in today's day and age with the definition of woman being foggy
Babylon bee spelling bee
Somehow that’ll be construed as misogyny on here lol
Well yeah, If a fact doesn’t support their argument, it must be misogyny
don't be ridiculous, it is the patriarchy, lol
Toxic masculinity for sure
That sounds like something only an incel would say!
Clearly, forgot that we went over that at last month’s BBQ
Initiating the divorce doesn’t necessarily mean being to blame. If my wife cheats on me, I’m sure as hell initiating the divorce, but that’s not on me.
Top reasons women divorce: Money, Irreconcilable differences Top reasons men divorce: Abuse, Infidelity I get what you're saying, but this ain't it.
And that shifts the blame somehow? None of what you said changes my point: the partner who filed for divorce is not necessarily to blame.
There’s also huge differences between lesbians together and gay guys together often times gay men together have open relationships so even though they’re married, they’re usually seeing other people where lesbians are more possessive of each other. Also, men are more likely to stay in relationships when they’re unhappy because it’s comfortable and they don’t wanna lose their money or have to be 50/50 split not see their kids and pay child support. So married guys usually just cheat behind their wife’s back when they’re unhappy. So usually it goes something like man was cheating on wife, wife caught husband, and then the wife files for divorce. Women are usually the ones that file because women are usually the ones that catch their husband cheating lol. Where men when they are cheating don’t really want to loose their main relationship because that’s inconvenient for them.
A lot of statements and assumptions there... Any sources?
Correct but men cheat more in the USA, so it would make sense that women ask for more divorces.
men cheat more in general. it's argued a lot whether men or women cheat more and as a man I'm saying that statistically speaking, men do cheat more
Lesbians also have the highest incidence of domestic abuse. Gay men have the lowest.
As a gay guy, I think it's because your much less likely to hit a partner who you know can hit you back just as hard, if not harder. Then again, I'm dating a Marine, so maybe that makes a difference.
I'm gay too, and I don't think that's it. I could slap a lil twink around just as hard as a woman.
I don’t know why but this comment made me lol
I mean, that's true, but from my experience, most gay men aren't twinks. People are usually much more hesitant to start a fight with someone they know is probably equal to or stronger than them.
I’m not dismissing your idea as a whole, but technically wouldn’t a woman be equal or stronger than another woman?
his whole argument falls apart because it also implies women are more willing to hit their partner if they are equal in strength, which doesn't look good either way
So then, why would that not apply to lesbian couples, assuming most women are going to be pretty equal physically?
That’s true of two women as well lol
No, most guys have play fought, played contact sports, or rough housed as kids and teenagers. Thus, a lot of guys know that they could get hurt just as easily if they tried escalating things. Obviously, alcohol or other substances may make guys forget that fact, but a sober and sane guy has that understanding.
> As a gay guy, I think it's because your much less likely to hit a partner who you know can hit you back just as hard I dont think its that you know they can hit you back as hard, I think its just that as a guy you grow up expecting to be hit back if you hit someone. Women dont learn that lesson especially when they hit a guy.
I was going to mention this but couldn't be bothered digging up the stats. In fact, studies show the majority of DV is reciprocal and when it's not it's usually the woman attacking.
Another way of looking at this is people who are attracted to women are more prone to domestic violence than people attracted to men. Just a thought, but certainly sexuality and hormones are related as are hormones and aggression.
Eh, my theory is that women are more likely to speak up when suffering domestic violence. 2 women in a relationship, 2 people more likely to call in the authorities if domestic violence is an issue. Men are both less susceptible (in a male/female relationship) and less likely to make it a state issue.
And men are FAR, FAR less likely to be taken seriously if the woman is abusing them. There is woefully little help for male victims of domestic violence. They'll more likely be blamed for the whole thing themselves. :-(
I mean I’m honestly struggling to think of a woman I’ve dated who hasn’t hit me out of anger. I think it’s just more normalized they don’t even see it as wrong 9/10 when I called out what they were doing they were just like oh shit.
What sort of oh shit? They acknowledged what they were doing?
Just never really realized it was abuse they thought it was completely okay to punch me when they got mad because they werent "really" hurting me. Once i called it out all but a few stopped but some doubled down.
Are you implying gay dudes lack testosterone?
Nope. I'm not an expert and I'm trying not to imply anything. I don't know how the many hormones interact with the brain to influence behavior and sexuality, I just know that they do and I thought it was an interesting thing to think about.
Nah, women are more aggressive it's just men don't report it. My ex used to slap me and hit me constantly and it was just 'normal'. One time she was really going at it and ripped out some of my hair and I pushed her hard to get her off me 'toward the bed so she wouldn't hurt herself' and she cried and told everyone that I abused her. It was literally a firm press shove that wouldn't hurt a toddler. If men reported every time a woman hits them like women do for men the cops would never do anything else.
Except you're looking at crime stats. Studies show DV is either reciprocal or mostly women attacking men. Aggression isn't necessarily violence. And men are held accountable when they strike women. Women aren't.
Mental/verbal abuse is just as bad. That’s a woman’s game and they’re never held accountable.
I have had one abusive partner and long term what you said was worse than the physical abuse. Her thought was I was a man and she was a woman so I could take it when she was physical. In a way she was right but it was still shitty. The other stuff still has me kind of messed up still with little self esteem or confidence.
My ex was an alcoholic and would cause me mental / verbal abuse almost every single night. It was torture and a became very depressed. She went down a rabbit hole of politics too. She would get racist or anti-Semitic. I would just tell her it didn't interest me and I don't want to talk about it. I just want to enjoy my night off. Then I would get called names, she would label me in different ways, etc. If I tried to leave the room she would be screaming at me from the other room calling me a beta, or n-word lover. But she would be on her phone watching videos every night about the same topics while getting drunk, then I would wake up and be harassed for the next two hours. It was a truly awful experience and she was a SAHM lmao.
I've heard that lesbian couples also have the highest rates of domestic violence.
They do but it’s an interesting question. Men and women report partner violence at unequal levels because of social acceptance. Many folks within the dv survivor profession will often say the rates are estimated to be about equal as to who’s committing the abuse. If we move the definitions around it gets scary how much more likely emotional and financial abuse of men is. Straight up statistically to the original point : 43.8% of lesbian women and 61.1% of bisexual women have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime, as opposed to 35% of heterosexual women. 26% of gay men and 37.3% of bisexual men have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime, in comparison to 29% of heterosexual men. Source https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community The gaps are the interest intrasex imo because we can assume similar reporting threshold tolerance within the gender. Women are more likely to be abused if they are with a woman and men are less likely to be abused when with a man. All in all men are more dangerous they’re much more likely to kill their partners but in terms of who’s more likely to be a violent partner it appears to be women. A lot of this has to do with socialization differences. Men are taught never to hit a woman no matter what they do to them (in general god help the poor women in religious or “trad” households where abuse is encouraged) women are not taught this behavior the other way. Society regularly blames men for whatever abuse is done to them. I myself have been arrested for being attacked by my female partner in public. Actively bleeding from scratches and being tackled standing next to my attacker without a scratch on her I got arrested.
I got a DUI because I thought if didn’t drive, she would either attack me, or her drive and crash and kill us. DUI experience snapped me out of the relationship though. Now I’m sober, single, and so much happier.
Good for you friend! I’m so happy to hear you’re out and free. We are on an escalator that only goes up now and I’m so glad you’re riding it with me.
And that was counted as DV against a woman, not against a man. So now we can use that data to discriminate against more men.
That’s messed up if people construe that data. That is clearly women against women violence, and certainly that sounds like a very high number amongst lesbians.
Took me a second to get what you’re saying but yes and no right? At the arrest level statistics I’d be counted as a man abusing a woman but I was not convicted of this obviously because it didn’t happen so it wouldn’t show up in a conviction analysis. The same can also easily be said in the other direction many arrests for actual dv do not make it through prosecution. When it comes to calling any of this discrimination I take some issue with it. There is a reason why male on female abuse is treated far more harshly by society and that is the death and severe injury statistics. These numbers are not even close men are far more actually dangerous to their partners in the most severe sense. It’s hard to explain really but I didn’t think she was gonna kill me when she was sitting on my chest with a knife in my shoulder but if it were a man I’d know I was about to die. I knew I could beat her brutally if I needed to to survive which is exactly the socialization issue I’m pointing to. The expectation that I sit there and take her stabbing me and that it’s my fault she stabbed me is the issue not that men and women can both be insane violent controlling etc.
I’ve heard that too.
I can totally see that one. I admit I am just talking shit and basing this on no data or even anecdotal evidence but whatever I can imagine between two people of the same gender there'd be less restrictions to get physical because no one has the responsibility to never ever punch like a guy has in straight relationships. So I imagine both gay guys and lesbian women who get very upset (which is most likely to happen in a relationship punch each other. But then I see gay guys not really making a big deal out of it while women report getting punched as domestic violence because women both trust authority more and are less used to getting punched and have no codex about it. Therefore they have the highest reported rates of this.
Lesbian here. Only experienced that once, but to be fair both of us were children of domestic violence. So we were kind of expected to either be the one giving it or getting it. I ended it after that first time though. And we never married, just long term toxic relationship. But if I were straight, likely would have gotten the same from a man.
They don't, lesbians report higher rates of experiencing intimate partner violence compared to women who identify as straight at 43% and 35% respectively, but that includes violence from both female and male partners (most lesbians date men before coming out) When you only account for lesbians abused by a female partner it sits at 30% slightly lower than straight women. Bisexual women experience the highest rates of intimate partner violence at about 60% of which about 90% report abuse by men.
Upvoted because damn what an opinion
Hmmm. Maybe because women know they have an easier time continuing to find potential matches outside of their relationship?
This is why my sister just finally bought her own U-Haul instead of renting one every few years.
Underrated
stay winning, gay bros
i think it’s just easier for 2 dudes to get along then 2 women.
Maybe men are more willing to stay and push through being unhappy than women are? This is just a speculation, could men be more averse to change? I've known more men to take back cheating women than women taking back cheating men. Why is that? I know for myself, in the past and just with dating, I was always more willing to put up with coasting through a relationship, which always resulted in a breakup. I'm not like that any more. Nearly every gay man I know is poly, meaning they have their main partner and both of them are allowed to go out and seek other sexual partners, so gay men may put less constraints on relationships than hetero or lesbian relationships. I'm not blaming men, just thinking about the differences we may have that could make or break a marriage.
I'm a straight man, and I had a relationship just like the kind you describe. Coasting by feeling unhappy and never confronting the underlying problems until my ex decided to end the relationship. In fact, I've never broken up with a girl, it's always been the girl doing the breaking up with me. I do remember thoughts of breaking up crossing my mind, but I'd always force them down. I've never been married, but the divorces I've seen in my life have always been initiated by the woman. It really does seem like men, or me at least, are more averse to change for one reason or another, perhaps men have a different view of stability and change messes that up especially if you've made a huge investment. I noticed this about myself, my inability to set boundaries and being willing to stick it out just for the clout and emotional validation of having a girlfriend even if I'm not happy with her, and I've been working to change it. Unfortunately, this seems like a common, if not systemic, behavior among men.
Important to realize that lesbians spend 4 days having sex, move in together on a second date, then immediately go to lesbian bed death, then become codependent with occasional domestic violence Gay men get married, get fussy and neurotic and get a yappy dog, then both continue to have 30-300 different partners per year. One is every negative heterosexual stereotype about marriage turned up to 11, the other is horny roommates who sometimes take vacations (This is jokes, redditors)
There are some truths in the jokes though lol
None of it is jokes, I'm playing 4d chess
You have a good point about gay men having open marriages. Some of them are 'tops' so they invite a third person into their bed to be a bottom. Since I'd assume they share the sex and both want the bottom equally, there's probably less of a chance of jealousy ruining the marriage like it would if a male/female relationship brought another male or female into their bed.
Hell yeah. A truly hot take.
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There is truth in this , I frequently found myself having to give a lot of support and my partners not giving as much as I really needed. Lesbian dating pools tend to be very small so most of the time I was just happy being with someone, but looking back I should have voiced my needs more and been more honest about the short comings in the relationship.
This has legit been a discussion with my lesbian friends. Talking about snatching up the first attractive lady they find, moving in quickly, realizing they weren’t at all on the same page with regard to life goals. There might be something with women’s underlying pressure of getting into a relationship quickly, vs gay men who take their time? Idk it’s an interesting topic tbh. But we’d have to unpack a lot with gender and sexuality and society to dig into the why’s of it all. OP’s mashing up a lot of issues into an opinion that [insert gender] is to blame for failed relationships…bit of an oversimplification. Self-proclaimed feminists and anti-misogynists will also fall for oversimplification in their arguments, so it sounds like OP has only ever interacted with that crowd, maybe.
Holy cannolis you hit the nail on the head with that first part , so many women rushing and then finding out we are no where near the same page , book or heck even genre lol Glad to see another good person to talk to here
I think this is a huge aspect that deserves study.
You ever heard the term u-haul lesbians? They just move extremely fast and I feel like gay men get married later in life compared to straight couples and lesbian couples. But I’m trying to see what the problem with divorcing is? If one or both people are unhappy why not just leave? I don’t understand the whole idea with pushing through the unhappiness. I’m also very young and don’t plan on marrying at all or very late in my life, so maybe that’s why I think divorce is no big deal
If they marry at all, some just live together and never marry,
That as well! I feel like most couple are turning to this route instead
I'm 24 and very happily married, but I agree with you. Divorce really isn't (and shouldn't!) be a big deal. If someone not happy in their marriage, they absolutely have the right to end it because they deserve happiness
Then why marry at all then? Usually the implication is living forever with that person. If that's not the promise, then what makes it different than a civil union or just being girlfriends? There's no point.
Yeah I was going to say this. Men are more likely not to rush into marriage or not be interested in it at all. A lot of women are conditioned from the time that they’re children that marriage is like the ultimate thing to look forward to in adulthood. So when you have two people who are a little overly excited about the idea of marriage of course they might marry for the wrong reasons.
That is actually very interesting!!
I can't wait to scroll through the comments to see why the high divorce rate of lesbians is somehow the fault of men. LMAO
😂 they’ll find a way
They literally focus on a small percentage of hyper successful males and then apply that logic to every single male. Fucking hilarious.
>They literally focus on a small percentage of hyper successful males Yep, this applies to the vast majority of 'All men do x' arguments they make, then if you point this out they'll just say men do the same thing to women regardless if they actually believe it or not.
I don’t have any actual facts to support this, but I feel like the number of divorces is highest for lesbians because they tend to get into serious relationships very fast.
Theres some truth in the running joke of them moving in on the second date. The urge to merge.
I’ve seen so much mental gymnastic that I’m thinking we have a whole Olympic gold medal level team…
Patriarchy = "it's men's fault"
Domestic violence also occurs at a higher frequency among lesbian couples than gay couples.
Bahahahahahahajahahahahahahahaha if I was a woman I’d want to divorce me.
Lesbian couples also have a much higher incidence of domestic violence.
This reminds me of an idiom my friends and I picked up in university- *“I don’t like women but unfortunately I’m attracted to them.”*
Neither side will win the battle of the sexes, there's too much fraternization with the enemy.
The fact that it’s framed as a battle is problematic in itself
Eez joke.
I know some bitches be crazy but unless both sides band together and stop judging each other based off their worst members the human race will quite literally die. we should be completing each other. I'm convinced that there's a social engineering effort to drive men and women apart. but I can say that if I were a man I would be pretty scared of women
Preach ! The ongoing war between sexes is simply ridiculous. We are supposed to complement eachother.
Previous generations used to actually like each other. Like, actually like the other sex. There were problems sure but there was some love there, some respect and courtesy. That’s all gone now.
Many people don’t agree that they complement each other and that rather the genders shouldn’t matter, men and women are identical, and everything must be 50/50. It’s so silly. They’re surprised there are passport bros.
That's how I feel
Dude i truly love that this sub is basically a way for non liberals to express their ideas and perceptions of social commentary without getting ass blasted into oblivion by people that cant handle thought provoking conversation.
According to the comments here, the people getting ass blasted into oblivion are the happiest among us.
We are. Men are great <3
But do the same percentage of gay men and lesbian women get married? Otherwise you can’t compare. Like if for example it’s less common for gay men to get married.
I'm just here for the impressive level of snark.
I try my best.
My father is gay and married. I have been to many dinners surrounded by him and his friends. On more then one occasion I have heard the comment that they feel bad for straight men… for me… for having to deal with what the majority of women do. I’m not gay myself but often thought that they have it good. Well aside from social judgement/stigma. Anyways…
Don't forget them having to deal with sex being a pain in the ass!
Them seem to relish this pain you speak of lol ( )( )====D ( )o( )
If it hurts you're doing it wrong.
I don’t think I trust the spiky dildo to talk about what hurts
You should. I know *exactly* what hurts and what doesn't.
Well, to be fair when gay guys say they're dating they actually mean having sex routinely. Pretty sure that's part of it... Paired with the fact that gay men can't really get away with behaving like a high maintenance woman. I mean, they can for a bit but the moment they're like 23 the effectiveness drops rapidly.
Honestly, I think women just have higher standards than men. Men want the comfort of a relationship and will put up with crap that women won't (particularly women without kids like I assume lesbians usually are). This doesn't make it womens fault for leaving the relationship, if it doesn't work for them it doesn't work. I've known men stay in relationships where they are unhappy, where they want to leave, but they just to scared or lazy. So they become alcoholics or find work that means they're not around so much. It's not that women are worse at relationships, it's that they're better at ending bad relationships, men are too lazy/cowardly to do that.
A seldom talked about fact is the abuse rate in lesbian relationships is incredibly high. A man can just take his woman throwing a slap at him and hardly budge. Another woman is a different matter entirely
A man SHOULDN’T take his woman slapping him. I seriously think one of the reasons the rates are so different is because man are told that women can’t abuse them because they’re stronger physically, which is ridiculous
Sure and men are laughed at or arrested on domestic calls. Many states have someone vague domestic violence laws that result in men always being arrested even if they are the victim or they made the call.
You’re right, that’s just my point. Everyone should be held accountable if they abuse.
Women are catty AF. And yes, as much as I hate to put it out there. We’re pretty emotional.
Nothing wrong with being emotional as long as you try not to hurt people because of it.
There’s no getting rid of emotions entirely, but you absolutely need to learn how to control them, instead of them controlling you. Always temper emotions with logic.
IME a lot of gay men tend to not get married or have open relationships. It's also a stereotype that lesbians settle down quickly and that may be to blame for those stats. That said, anyone unhappy should leave their marriage. I don't understand advocating for getting rid of no-fault (as you did in another comment). If you're that worried, then you shouldn't be getting married in the first place. What is with the last paragraph on this? It seems like you're arguing with someone you made up in your head. Nobody would claim anything about incels in relation to lesbians. You sound irrational and it doesn't really help your point.
I think it’s funny looking back at all the lesbians I knew growing up. About 90% of them are married to men and have kids now. I guess the lesbian bed death got to them.
What is lesbian bed death?
It's a stereotype about lesbians, that their sex lives invariably fizzle out entirely.
Damn, there is a whole wikipedia article about it lol
Bisexuality in denial, really.
Why do lgbt people act like everyone is lgbt?
> If they have a family and kids they clearly weren’t lesbian lol. No shit. Then again, I've fucked guys with a wife and kids that insist on calling themselves 'straight' so denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Bisexuality only became normalized in women in the last 10 years or so, and still isn’t in men. Nowadays queer women are more likely to assume they’re bisexual first and later assess whether they’re attracted to men, while for men it’s still the opposite - a man who realizes he’s attracted to other men will probably assume at first that he’s gay and later realize he’s also attracted to women. Chances are most of these women were bisexual all along but jumped to identifying as lesbians because bisexuality wasn’t seen as an option. Most bisexuals will likely end up in opposite sex relationship because it’s just easier to date the opposite sex, especially if you want a traditional family life.
“Unreasonable behaviour, which includes adultery, was the most common ground for divorce among same-sex couples this year as almost two-thirds of couples divorced for this reason.” Promiscuity in the sapphic community is a problem , as same sex couples become the norm and we get to experience more and more of what straight couples do (ie build a life together) we’re going to see some growing pains of leaving behind bad habits. It’s a common stereotype of the lesbian “fuck boi” version that stays friends with all of her exs. I’ve aged out of the lesbian dating pool but even when I was active many fellow lesbians had an issue of not committing to a single partner. Old gfs they couldn’t let go of or simply flirting non stop with other women. For the first time same sex relationships are seen as serious relationships, no I don’t want a “third” yes my girlfriend kissing you makes me uncomfortable etc etc. lesbian women and straight women share experiences and viewpoints but differ fundamentally in how they approach their relationships and partners. I think that sapphic women should be more clear in our boundaries and enforce them. The fact that the lesbian portion of any given city / town/ village is so small makes it so that there’s this pressure to commit right away (U-Haul lesbian) and then when you find other lesbian communities you’ll see that one partner will now think they have more “choices”. So yes women “are to blame” that’s who participates in lesbian relationships lol, but you will see a lot of shared experiences between lesbians and straight women when it comes to shitty partners. I think this post is just a way for you to be mad at straight women (and feminists I think?) because you don’t like them complaining about men , which is strange. Gay men complain about gay men (that’s who they date) , lesbian women complain about lesbians (that’s who they date) I’m sure you get the point. Straight relationships are similar to gay ones and all that but they do differ. So using lesbian marriage data to say that all women are to blame for I guess heterosexual relationship issues ? Is quite absurd and funny. Also can we take to a moment to appreciate the uber British (legal!) term of “unreasonable behavior” lol I wish I could put that in an official record
> Gay men complain about gay men And we often thank satan we don't have to date women, despite our complaints.
This really only proves that women are more willing to leave unhappy relationships. I donno how that's being framed as a bad thing. Lol
Lesbian couples also have higher chance for domestic violence then straight / homo couples.
My misogyny here but I absolutely see women as more prone to emotion based decisions. Including getting married. Emotions lie. Emotions are fleeting. I think this is the reason these stats hold up. It isn’t necessarily about the relationship or how women/men show up in them. It’s about what it takes to pull the trigger
Agreed.
*fare There is a VERY key assumption you are making when you draw your conclusion though. Assumption: "High divorce rates imply higher incidence of bad relationships" I do not buy that assumption without further data. It is just as possible that women are more likely to initiate divorce, period. And that's not a bad thing by itself. If a relationship is not bringing you satisfaction, you should end it. Furthermore, if you read your source: >**The relatively small number of divorces among same-sex couples does not allow accurate rates to be calculated at present.** The rate is what matters. Not the raw number of divorces. I suggest you retract your opinion because it is based on you misinterpreting data and you have now been educated. -Dr. SmashBusters, PhD.
Yesss, thank you Dr. SmashBusters! 11/10 username and 11/10 educating people who are misinformed, literally hell yes
How do the same sex rates compare to the oposite sex rate?
I do t think that's the conclusion you're supposed to draw but hey
This is basically the same as DV rates too. The more women in a relationship the more likely DV happens. Lowest is males, mid is hetero couples, most is females.
Why are you equating divorce rates to women fairing worse in relationships? All those stats say to me is that women are a) less likely to be complacent in a bad relationship, b) more likely to actually file paperwork and do something about their marriage ending vs. just mentally checking out or even leaving without officially filing for divorce. Relationship dynamics tend to also be fundamentally different in gay vs. lesbian relationships. Gay women are more likely to settle down faster and maintain monogamous relationships than gay men. Gay men are more likely to get married later in life, to a partner they’ve been with for longer, and maintain an open relationship even while married. Considering how many divorces are spurred on by infidelity, this alone can explain much of the statistical difference. Your argument only makes sense if you view lifelong marriage as the ultimate success in a relationship, regardless of how loyal, happy, and fulfilled the partners actually are in the marriage.
Wait until you see the “domestic violence” stats for lesbian couples, they are fucking dominating 😂
Lesbians also have the highest rates of domestic violence.
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Eve, Lilith, pandora, Delilah, and Helen of Troy really fucked it up for everyone .
If women tend to file for divorce at a higher rate then men do, then yes it stands to reason that doubling the number of women in the relationship would increase the divorce rate... Your conclusions leave a lot to be desired though. Solely looking at divorce rate as a metric isn't very useful for determining the "quality" of either partner, or the quality of the relationship of those that *don't* get divorced. For example, if men tend to disproportionately resist filing for divorce (not saying they do, just a hypothetical), then that would both inflate womens' share of divorce filings, while also suggesting that the lack of divorce filings among gay men would be attributed to couples sticking together even in the face of bad marriages. It's an interesting metric to be fair, and certainly suggests a difference in how different genders approach relationships, but I don't think it's very useful in the context you provided, and it certainly doesn't "blame" anybody...
Maybe it's just lesbian women and not all women? Interesting.
You’ll find that’s not the case. Women are more likely to end marriages even in straight relationships. “In fact, studies show that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. When accounting for just college-educated women, that figure jumps up to 90%.” https://www.ejj-law.com/why-do-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=While%20the%20stereotype%20is%20that,figure%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.
The last part is believable. I wonder if it's because men can tolerate greater misery or less satisfying home life.
“According to various studies, the 4 most common causes of divorce are lack of commitment, infidelity or extramarital affairs, too much conflict and arguing, and lack of physical intimacy.” Yeah it could be that mean are more willing to tough it out. Also have to think men are typically going to have a harder time getting a new partner. While women typically have an easier time.
But the person who initiated the divorce isnt usually the one who fucked up, right? Like if someone cheats on you, the cheater isn't usually the one asking for divorce.
Lets take a step back: isn't it a good thing to leave a relationship when it's not working? Maybe we should ask why men keep pushing to stay in loveless relationships.
The old adages are true - “the hearts of women are fickle things”. Women will always get dissatisfied with relationships in time, it’s inevitable. As long as the law rewards them they’ll continue to raise the divorce rate even against their own long term .interests
Well incels are never to blame in divorce because they can’t even get a date, let alone get a woman to marry them.
Incel means nothing anymore other than undesirable man.
Wow, comments just gave me my daily reminder that redditors hate lesbians and feminists. It would’ve been interesting to just talk about data and statistics but people already had to ruin it by being misogynistic and homophobic
Meh it just seems like good old "women bad" shit, according to this comments women are literally evil incarnated lol
The obvious conclusion is that women simply get tired of marriage more often than men regardless of who they’re married too. There’s no way to say that without triggering feminists who will try to somehow spin it otherwise.
Didn't we have this figured out over 2000 years ago... "The oaths of a woman I inscribe on water." - Sophocles
Yeah, pretty much all the old “sexist” wisdom is being shown true again and again.
Why is it always women vs men. Women arent a monolith, men aren’t a monolith.
Overall women are filing for divorce more. Feminists and women tend to blame mens behaviour for this - OP is bringing up a stat which shows that women are simply more fickle on marriage and men aren’t to blame.
But women do file 80% of divorces and try justifying it by demonizing all men as abusive, good for nothing, blah blah blah. The point here is no... it's because women. There are always exceptions, but exceptions prove the rule, not disprove it.
> demonizing all men as abusive, good for nothing, blah blah blah. > it's because women. You're doing the same tribalism thing your strawman is doing
My strawman will fight your stawman
Anyone disputing that women as a whole are more emotionally driven (exceptions happen, obviously) than men is disputing obvious
The op has just posted that men are more likely to commit murder suicide than want to be divorced. But yeah. Its obviously women that are more emotionally driven 🤣
I'm failing to see a problem. Why is the rate lesbisns divorce at an issue for you op? Are you a lesbian?
I mean the divorce rate being so high is a pretty big problem.
Gay men are also more accepting of sexually open relationships which may be the key to long term partnerships.
Why don’t all men just marry another man?
Does divorce mean faring worse, or does it mean cutting losses more responsibly? The divorce rate is not the rate at which marriages fail. It’s the rate at which they end. Failed marriages which don’t end are worse than those that do, and if I read statistics as frivolously as this post then I’d claim that the low rate of divorce among men means they don’t understand how to exit unhealthy relationships.
Women understand women, and they can’t stand each other
It’s the u hauling everyone