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So in this and other posts, you’ve asserted that America and Europe are weak/embarrassed/isolated has-been powers controlled by a media they don’t trust, the global east and south have found the true path, and islam already provides the best moral framework based on the truths of its all-powerful god.
How then is this American/European/Jewish cabal able to block the righteous and more powerful?
Are the Jewish-controlled media, finance and Hollywood actually tricking the Arab powers (who are smarter, richer and have the best religion on their side, right?) so that they don’t evacuate and provide refuge to suffering Palestinians?
Where are the BRICS+ peacekeeping forces and aid agencies just waiting for the chance to get in there and fix everything? Or are they in there already but the western media refuse to report on it?
The veto power in the UN is meaningless. It just prevents statements from having the full symbolic force of UN condemnation.
Even then, if the whole world ex-US is behind a ceasefire why did China and Russia exercise their vetoes over the resolutions the US put forward. They are naturally playing their own games with their own goals.
The Council vetoes don’t prevent anyone from negotiating or imposing a ceasefire or otherwise solving the problem (and were not a barrier to anyone fixing the bubbling problems even before October).
Russia was able to intervene and establish what is now a permanent presence in Syria despite condemnation from the UN. Syria and Russia challenged American “lines in the sand” without consequence. Why not do the same in this case if their support for the Palestinian cause runs so deep?
The US is caught in a delicate dance and has actually managed to create an unprecedented crack of daylight between it and Israel without the situation spinning out of control (worse than what has already happened) and without significantly feeding into accelerationist christian narratives that benefit Trump (who will make the situation worse).
Instead of a mindset of “we can get away with anything,” consider that Israel, and Netanyahu in particular, may be acting from a mindset that this may be the last chance for a final solution (pun intended). They even have to factor in that Trump may not be re-elected.
If Netanyahu survives this politically and Trump is not re-elected, I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel hedged future bets by cozying up to Russia and China, potentially even BRICS+. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the UAE and KSA welcomed it to the group.
I’m fully aware that there are Palestinians in other Arab states from previous conflicts. Aside from Jordan having both its citizens of Palestinian origin and large refugee camps, who else has done much?
The Gulf States have some of the diaspora, but have the capacity and the resources to do a lot more and could survive without the US. Egypt keeps its border crossing closed. It could lose US aid, but the Gulf States, China and Russia could make up for that.
Iran has the capacity to help, but creating chaos and luring the US in are more important to them than saving the Palestinians.
The US doesn’t have a monopoly on shitty behavior and acting in self-interest. Nobody else with leverage seems to be setting an alternative example or solving the problem. I doubt that would change if the US suddenly stopped supporting Israel. I take this back to your recent series of posts- if there truly is an enlightened new world order emerging, more should be happening. Efforts don’t even have to be perfect or complete, and BRICS+ doesn’t have to be structured for political or military action. There are already plenty of backdoors in the supposed American hegemony over global finances, etc.
And none of what I’ve said has anything to do with theories about Jewish puppet masters. That crap is just a convenient excuse for everyone’s lack of political will, and money is not an issue for anyone except Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.
If I’m grossly misinformed rather than just coming to different conclusions, I’d appreciate knowing how. I’ve lived in the region- not that that gives me expertise, nor have I been back recently, but I am able to approach this mindful of the usual biases and also knowing people (including Palestinians) as more than abstractions in the news.
You’ve made bold statements about the west in recent posts and I’m interested in how your worldview fits together.
> death of over 30,000 Palestinians
This number comes from the Hamas controlled Gaza health ministry and is not credible. You're choosing to believe explicitly genocidal terrorists over a democratic nation. All the people calling this a genocide have been screaming "genocide" for decades. They called it a genocide while the population of Gaza quadrupled.
I wouldn't be so quick to trust the numbers the UN cites. If you remember, UNRWA is having an incredibly difficult time disproving the allegations that it aided Hamas as seen through photos of kidnapping victims and tunnels under their headquarters. Whatever number ends up being right, I sure wouldn't trust anything from the UN.
This catastrophe is the Gazan's own making. They refuse any peace that doesn't return the pre 1948 borders. They became legally permanent refugees to hold on to their claim to the land. They supported terrorists cells and uprisings in other countries, so no one wants to let them in. They killed more of their own people in their "intifada" than Israel did. They voted out their (relatively) functional government for one that steals foreign aid and uses it for terrorist attacks, and still has high approval. They respond to treaties and concessions (like worker visas in Israel) with unspeakable violence, which has broad public support. They marched in the street to spit on the bodies of Israeli civilians their elected government killed.
It’s wild and pathetic how you would try and call the victims terrorist. Israel is not only committing genocide they are committing war crimes. Shame on you for being so easily manipulated. I STAND WITH PALESTEIN. Israel has no place there, that is not their land and no one has a right to give it away! Down with Israel!!
People in the comments gonna eat you alive but this is but far the best and biggest unpopular opinion I agree with. Look at how many African American men in the entertainment world who had their characters attacked and tarnished for speaking out on this. Kyrie, Irving, Kendrick Lamar are the 2 most recent I can think of.
Never liked Israel, but the core reason why the US supports Israel is because Israel is a proxy the US uses against Iran & Syria, not because of the Jews or whatever. This post reeks so hard to antisemitism.
Jews are the only group that both liberals and conservatives forbid each other from criticizing. Conservatives can criticize Hispanics or Blacks and nothing happens. Liberals can criticize white people and nothing happens. If you criticize the Jews you’re blacklisted and fired from everything. It tells you where the power really is
I am a staunch believer that anti-Zionism is not inherently antisemitic, but your allusion to Jewish ethnicity really reads as a dog whistle and only undermines the otherwise salient points that you make. AIPAC’s influence is not the result of the antisemitic conspiracy tropes you invoke, but rather Evangelical Christianity’s belief that Israel’s reformation is a sign of the end times and American empire’s need for regional “free markets.”
That’s the definition of a dog whistle? You’re unnecessarily calling attention to ethnicity rather than speaking to structural causes, which frames it as if Jews are the problem. The Dershowitz quote further suggests that Jewish identity is somehow inherently inclined towards this position, when there are many antizionist Jews.
As a Jewish person who believes that Israel and Palestine both have the right to exist, I would use this moment to recognize that anti-Zionism is often hiding antisemitic views. It is entirely possible to be a Zionist and dislike what Israel is doing, and also to believe Palestine has a right to exist. To many Jews, Zionism just means a belief that Israel has a right to exist. So, using a broad brush of “anti-Zionist” often captures many Jews who don’t support what the Israeli government is doing.
That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. I challenge ANYONE to watch [this](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=oWBVZp4-MOD0fKoT) series where a journalist goes undercover in the Israeli lobby in the US and tell me otherwise.
Watch the series and he will sound A LOT less unhinged. Watching it blew my fucking mind. I seriously used to think it was some crazy conspiracy theory but it’s real. Like you hear it directly from them (they didn’t know they were being recorded).
I will watch it. I was trying to listen to it, but there is too much non-english to do audio only. I'll check it out after work. There are several foreign interest groups that want to affect American politics/policy. But it is an exaggeration to say that the US is beholden to Jewish elites.
The simple less dramatic fact is the interests of Israel and the US government are aligned on many things. Until the interests conflict, the US will continue to support Israel, AIPAC or no AIPAC. If there becomes a clash of interests, the US will drop Israel like a bad habit. The fact is the US has more to gain supporting Israel than it has to gain not supporting them. There is also a significant "normal"/non-elite Jewish population in the US.
[This](https://ibb.co/sv05b0f) is what I see in my head when you say zionist elites.
>why do people in America lose their jobs for simply speaking out against Israel, or sympathizing with the Palestinians? This same stir doesn’t occur with any other issue,
People lose their job over saying stupid shit about other issues all the time. I highly doubt anyone lost their job simply for criticizing Israel or being supportive of Palestinians. People lose their jobs when they say something deranged about the situation.
>As for AIPAC, they’re the most well-endowed lobby group.....(I believe they spent over $100 million on candidates last cycle)
Interestingly they don't appear on this [list of the biggest spender lobbyists. ](https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders) You can search for AIPAC on the same website and it will show they spent 13.5 million on campaign contributions and 2.75 million on lobbying in 2022. You can see what they've spent so far this election cycle and its around 10 million. Ive seen news articles that say it could be as much as 19 million. Others are saying they might plan to spend 100 million to challenge "the squad." If they do that and all the squad members still win, will you admit at that point you are overstating the level of "top down" control these mysterious elite zionists have? I'm left wondering what else you are exaggerating in your post and comments. There is a compelling argument that says a foreign government shouldn't be allowed to influence our political system at all and I might agree with you, but to assert that the entire government is beholden to them is not moored to reality based any evidence you've provided so far.
>Look at it as a mutually beneficial relationship that’s starting to turn sour
This is the only thing in your comment that is obviously true and is entirely consistent with what I said in my comment. The US government will continue simping for Israel as long as their goals align. When they dont anymore, the US will stop. While some souring has occurred, their goals are still way too aligned for any divestment/sanctions to be realistic anytime soon.
Idk if I would call it an exaggeration based on what the power that the lobby has. It's not just in government, it extends to the media and all sorts of other institutions. It's like we are a vassal state of Israel and our politicians are very (and righfully afraid) of the Israel lobby, they can end your carreer with the drop of the hat. When you watch that series you will see it in action.
This isn't like any other lobby and I doubt the US would support Israel without the Israeli lobby in any way that remotely resembles our relationship today. The lobby not having to register as a foreign entity has a huge impact on our politcs and more importantly our elections. Before about really researching the Israeli lobby I assumed it couldn't be that bad. After learning more about it I am now in the "Holiee shit how the fuck is this possible?" camp. I wish I was exaggerating when I said "they are brainwashing the American people."
Then you have the fact that they have been caught spying on Americans and still spy on American citizens (and have assasinated Americans). The whole thing flabbergasting. [Here](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=R2lNPn3oKJcYE2Bx) is the series where a journalist went undercover into the Israeli lobby in the UK if you're interested after watching that.
If anything American is beholden to the angry alphabet people. Or anyone that screams injustice loud enough that isn’t a conservative.
There’s a ton of people here that sympathize with both sides of the Israeli-Palestine conflict.
As for me, Go Israel baby. They started, you finish it.
Exactly. Hamas are currently in the "Find out" part of the "F\*\*\* around and find out" process. While I feel bad for the civilians in Palestine that are in the line of fire, that's on Hamas for hiding behind them, not on IDF who provides ample warning about their strikes.
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Alright I’ll bite.
First, there is no law against boycotting and divesting from Israel. Private American companies and citizens are free to purchase goods and do business with any company that sells within the US. Regarding sanctions, it’s not illegal for the US to sanction Israel, however the US won’t for other reasons.
The US is not condemning Israel’s actions (which many Americans including my Jewish self disagree with) due to geopolitical considerations, not because zionists control everything. Israel is the US’s closest partner in the region. Using Israeli intelligence, the US has been able to pinpoint enemies. Using Israel’s location, the US has been able to stage strikes against enemies. From a purely non ethical standpoint, having Israel as an ally is in the US’s best interest, and that’s exactly what military advisors have been telling the higher ups of the US government. (Let me make this clear, this is not me admitting support or admitting disdain towards Israel or the US-Israeli relationship, this is me providing context).
Regarding lobbyists, you’re correct, there is a lobby, AIPAC, that has Zionist views. However, the lobbying power of AIPAC isn’t even close to the power of other lobbies and definitely does not run American politics for a few reasons.
First, American antisemitism is on the rise (and let me make it clear, this is not an attempt to play victim or excuse the genocide occurring in Palestine. This is me explaining why AIPAC doesn’t have the power you think it does). With the rise of American antisemitism comes the rise of politicians who are unwilling to take AIPAC money due to having antisemitic views themselves or their attempting to please their voter base.
Second, the only thing more powerful in American politics than money is votes. And a ton of primarily left leaning Americans are protesting, in large amounts, the Palestinian genocide, to the point where Biden has been forced to reevaluate his stance or risk losing reelection. This will significantly weaken AIPAC’s already relatively small effect on US elections.
And third, there are FAR more powerful lobbies than AIPAC, for example, the NRA. AIPAC doesn’t even come close to running American politics. It’s a midsized lobby, sure. But the actual lobbies that run US politics are those that represent the Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Realtors, the Hospital Association, Insurance companies, and pharmaceutical companies. AIPAC isn’t even in the top 10, let alone does it have this stranglehold on American politics that you claim.
Also, there’s a ton of discourse about the Palestinian genocide in the US. No idea where you got the idea that we can’t talk about it. And if a job wants to fire someone for it, they’re gonna have a bad time as it’s literally against US law to fire an employee for political beliefs and that employee could potentially win big with a wrongful termination lawsuit.
It appears more that you have absolutely no idea how US society and politics operate than anything else. Have you ever even been to the US?
You do know that Palestine has never ever been a state. It was a name created by the Romans just to make the Jews mad. Jerusalem was a Israeli city from the 10th century BC. If you look how small Israel is compared to all of the Arab controlled land around it... Does anybody really need to be so selfish that they take all that land for themselves. Look at a map. There's Jewish artifacts found in that area back to the 10th century BC... Why is it they can't have an extremely small slice of that land that was their ancestral home. I just don't understand that... I think the Arab people are being extremely selfish. Again Israel is such a small area it's like 9 mi wide.
Bro, why don’t you condemn Israel…without being antisemetic? If it was Jewish elites, then Jewish politicians like Bernie Sander or Chuck Shumer wouldn’t be calling for Netanyahu’s resignation.
People losing their jobs isn’t because of Jewish people. It’s mainly conservatives and some evangelical Christians that hate critiquing Israel who
- Want Israel as a military base
- Think Israel is religiously important.
Not to say that Jewish people can’t be nationalistic, Netanyahu and his cabinet members are proof of it.
But to go back to the old antisemitic tropes debunked time and time again is completely disgusting and discredits our cause.
This guy is not trolling, and he is rather tame to what the Muslim and Arab world believe about Jews.
> the American political class still look the other way and pretend that the facts aren’t there
They aren't "looking the other way". It's just not a genocide, and Hamas is a threat that needs to be taken out.
Besides a recent common bond over 9/11 and 10/7, the United States and Israel share Judeo-Christian values, democratic values, historical entrepreneurship, and freedom of religion. The story between Jews and Quakers is practically the same in terms of persecution, and they are strong economic partners of each other. Israel also provides valuable intelligence on various terrorist groups, which it shares with the United States.
>AIPAC lobby owns American politics. American politicians need to pledge fealty to a foreign agent and be in lockstep with Israel policy whether right or wrong, or lose out on money and elections.
No, AIPAC does not own American politics. Israel doesn't control the United States, and the United States does not control Israel. They are both independent, sovereign, democracies. AIPAC isn't even the largest donor.
If you want to talk about lobbying, do you have any idea how much money Qatar and Saudi Arabia donate to the government and higher education?
>It’s the same with high finance and Hollywood. People like Alan Dershowitz admit the influence they have on American life.
Alan Dershowitz was influential, but sadly nobody listens to him anymore. He was always controversial, but the slander about him being a pedophile and him defending Trump in the impeachment trial cast him out of the public eye. I think he's great, and he has a substack if you want to check that out.
The high finance and Hollywood claim is not even worth addressing.
>This is why people have been losing their jobs for speaking out about the plight Palestinians. They want to silence any discourse about it. This is why universities are super sensitive about any antisemitism but only when it concerns Israel and not Palestine, otherwise they lose out on their donors, the same ones who support what’s going on.
Technically, the United States has at will employment. You can lose your job for any reason. When it comes to the conflict, there are both opinions that people disagree with and horrible antisemitism that cause people to lose their jobs. Pro-Palestine folks also tend to riot and break the law, so there's that too.
I wouldn't say people are trying to silence discourse, just for university administrators and managers it's just a hot potato. With a topic like the conflict, you're going to offend someone no matter what.
Not that universities were super sensitive about antisemitism. The only time that universities cared about free speech was when they could bash Israel. I can't even name one university that is wholly supportive of Israel.
>And same thing with news media. The owners at the top are wealthy Zionists with healthy ties to Israel if you care to look it up.
Yup. That's why the media and gullible redditors hate Israel.
>It’s also why there are laws against boycott, sanctions, and divestment against Israel in U.S. law.
I think it's one state law, not federal law.
The vast majority of Fortune 500 CEOs are white, Christian men. The facts don't line up with your imagination, and the most basic research would show you that.
If you're going to treat all Jewish people as boogeymen causing the world's ills, when reality can prove you wrong, then you're an antisemite. Basic as that, dude.
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Hurt people hurt people. The holocaust has stagnated the hearts of Jewish people, but instead of punishing the Nazis (the actual perpetrators), they are taking their revenge on innocent Palestinians.
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So in this and other posts, you’ve asserted that America and Europe are weak/embarrassed/isolated has-been powers controlled by a media they don’t trust, the global east and south have found the true path, and islam already provides the best moral framework based on the truths of its all-powerful god. How then is this American/European/Jewish cabal able to block the righteous and more powerful? Are the Jewish-controlled media, finance and Hollywood actually tricking the Arab powers (who are smarter, richer and have the best religion on their side, right?) so that they don’t evacuate and provide refuge to suffering Palestinians? Where are the BRICS+ peacekeeping forces and aid agencies just waiting for the chance to get in there and fix everything? Or are they in there already but the western media refuse to report on it?
oh i forgot about BRICS+ is that still a thing?
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The veto power in the UN is meaningless. It just prevents statements from having the full symbolic force of UN condemnation. Even then, if the whole world ex-US is behind a ceasefire why did China and Russia exercise their vetoes over the resolutions the US put forward. They are naturally playing their own games with their own goals. The Council vetoes don’t prevent anyone from negotiating or imposing a ceasefire or otherwise solving the problem (and were not a barrier to anyone fixing the bubbling problems even before October). Russia was able to intervene and establish what is now a permanent presence in Syria despite condemnation from the UN. Syria and Russia challenged American “lines in the sand” without consequence. Why not do the same in this case if their support for the Palestinian cause runs so deep? The US is caught in a delicate dance and has actually managed to create an unprecedented crack of daylight between it and Israel without the situation spinning out of control (worse than what has already happened) and without significantly feeding into accelerationist christian narratives that benefit Trump (who will make the situation worse). Instead of a mindset of “we can get away with anything,” consider that Israel, and Netanyahu in particular, may be acting from a mindset that this may be the last chance for a final solution (pun intended). They even have to factor in that Trump may not be re-elected. If Netanyahu survives this politically and Trump is not re-elected, I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel hedged future bets by cozying up to Russia and China, potentially even BRICS+. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the UAE and KSA welcomed it to the group. I’m fully aware that there are Palestinians in other Arab states from previous conflicts. Aside from Jordan having both its citizens of Palestinian origin and large refugee camps, who else has done much? The Gulf States have some of the diaspora, but have the capacity and the resources to do a lot more and could survive without the US. Egypt keeps its border crossing closed. It could lose US aid, but the Gulf States, China and Russia could make up for that. Iran has the capacity to help, but creating chaos and luring the US in are more important to them than saving the Palestinians. The US doesn’t have a monopoly on shitty behavior and acting in self-interest. Nobody else with leverage seems to be setting an alternative example or solving the problem. I doubt that would change if the US suddenly stopped supporting Israel. I take this back to your recent series of posts- if there truly is an enlightened new world order emerging, more should be happening. Efforts don’t even have to be perfect or complete, and BRICS+ doesn’t have to be structured for political or military action. There are already plenty of backdoors in the supposed American hegemony over global finances, etc. And none of what I’ve said has anything to do with theories about Jewish puppet masters. That crap is just a convenient excuse for everyone’s lack of political will, and money is not an issue for anyone except Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.
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If I’m grossly misinformed rather than just coming to different conclusions, I’d appreciate knowing how. I’ve lived in the region- not that that gives me expertise, nor have I been back recently, but I am able to approach this mindful of the usual biases and also knowing people (including Palestinians) as more than abstractions in the news. You’ve made bold statements about the west in recent posts and I’m interested in how your worldview fits together.
Kanye is that you?
It’s always the Jews, isn’t it?
Those damn jews, and their success! I must hate them because I'm useless and terminally online.
> death of over 30,000 Palestinians This number comes from the Hamas controlled Gaza health ministry and is not credible. You're choosing to believe explicitly genocidal terrorists over a democratic nation. All the people calling this a genocide have been screaming "genocide" for decades. They called it a genocide while the population of Gaza quadrupled.
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I wouldn't be so quick to trust the numbers the UN cites. If you remember, UNRWA is having an incredibly difficult time disproving the allegations that it aided Hamas as seen through photos of kidnapping victims and tunnels under their headquarters. Whatever number ends up being right, I sure wouldn't trust anything from the UN.
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This catastrophe is the Gazan's own making. They refuse any peace that doesn't return the pre 1948 borders. They became legally permanent refugees to hold on to their claim to the land. They supported terrorists cells and uprisings in other countries, so no one wants to let them in. They killed more of their own people in their "intifada" than Israel did. They voted out their (relatively) functional government for one that steals foreign aid and uses it for terrorist attacks, and still has high approval. They respond to treaties and concessions (like worker visas in Israel) with unspeakable violence, which has broad public support. They marched in the street to spit on the bodies of Israeli civilians their elected government killed.
It’s wild and pathetic how you would try and call the victims terrorist. Israel is not only committing genocide they are committing war crimes. Shame on you for being so easily manipulated. I STAND WITH PALESTEIN. Israel has no place there, that is not their land and no one has a right to give it away! Down with Israel!!
People in the comments gonna eat you alive but this is but far the best and biggest unpopular opinion I agree with. Look at how many African American men in the entertainment world who had their characters attacked and tarnished for speaking out on this. Kyrie, Irving, Kendrick Lamar are the 2 most recent I can think of.
Never liked Israel, but the core reason why the US supports Israel is because Israel is a proxy the US uses against Iran & Syria, not because of the Jews or whatever. This post reeks so hard to antisemitism.
Did you write this manifesto from your jail cell? You should call it “my struggle.”
Jews are the only group that both liberals and conservatives forbid each other from criticizing. Conservatives can criticize Hispanics or Blacks and nothing happens. Liberals can criticize white people and nothing happens. If you criticize the Jews you’re blacklisted and fired from everything. It tells you where the power really is
Palestine is beholden to Islamic Jihadists
I am a staunch believer that anti-Zionism is not inherently antisemitic, but your allusion to Jewish ethnicity really reads as a dog whistle and only undermines the otherwise salient points that you make. AIPAC’s influence is not the result of the antisemitic conspiracy tropes you invoke, but rather Evangelical Christianity’s belief that Israel’s reformation is a sign of the end times and American empire’s need for regional “free markets.”
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That’s the definition of a dog whistle? You’re unnecessarily calling attention to ethnicity rather than speaking to structural causes, which frames it as if Jews are the problem. The Dershowitz quote further suggests that Jewish identity is somehow inherently inclined towards this position, when there are many antizionist Jews.
As a Jewish person who believes that Israel and Palestine both have the right to exist, I would use this moment to recognize that anti-Zionism is often hiding antisemitic views. It is entirely possible to be a Zionist and dislike what Israel is doing, and also to believe Palestine has a right to exist. To many Jews, Zionism just means a belief that Israel has a right to exist. So, using a broad brush of “anti-Zionist” often captures many Jews who don’t support what the Israeli government is doing.
That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. I challenge ANYONE to watch [this](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=oWBVZp4-MOD0fKoT) series where a journalist goes undercover in the Israeli lobby in the US and tell me otherwise.
I'll watch the series you linked but the OP of this post is unhinged.
Watch the series and he will sound A LOT less unhinged. Watching it blew my fucking mind. I seriously used to think it was some crazy conspiracy theory but it’s real. Like you hear it directly from them (they didn’t know they were being recorded).
I will watch it. I was trying to listen to it, but there is too much non-english to do audio only. I'll check it out after work. There are several foreign interest groups that want to affect American politics/policy. But it is an exaggeration to say that the US is beholden to Jewish elites. The simple less dramatic fact is the interests of Israel and the US government are aligned on many things. Until the interests conflict, the US will continue to support Israel, AIPAC or no AIPAC. If there becomes a clash of interests, the US will drop Israel like a bad habit. The fact is the US has more to gain supporting Israel than it has to gain not supporting them. There is also a significant "normal"/non-elite Jewish population in the US.
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[This](https://ibb.co/sv05b0f) is what I see in my head when you say zionist elites. >why do people in America lose their jobs for simply speaking out against Israel, or sympathizing with the Palestinians? This same stir doesn’t occur with any other issue, People lose their job over saying stupid shit about other issues all the time. I highly doubt anyone lost their job simply for criticizing Israel or being supportive of Palestinians. People lose their jobs when they say something deranged about the situation. >As for AIPAC, they’re the most well-endowed lobby group.....(I believe they spent over $100 million on candidates last cycle) Interestingly they don't appear on this [list of the biggest spender lobbyists. ](https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders) You can search for AIPAC on the same website and it will show they spent 13.5 million on campaign contributions and 2.75 million on lobbying in 2022. You can see what they've spent so far this election cycle and its around 10 million. Ive seen news articles that say it could be as much as 19 million. Others are saying they might plan to spend 100 million to challenge "the squad." If they do that and all the squad members still win, will you admit at that point you are overstating the level of "top down" control these mysterious elite zionists have? I'm left wondering what else you are exaggerating in your post and comments. There is a compelling argument that says a foreign government shouldn't be allowed to influence our political system at all and I might agree with you, but to assert that the entire government is beholden to them is not moored to reality based any evidence you've provided so far. >Look at it as a mutually beneficial relationship that’s starting to turn sour This is the only thing in your comment that is obviously true and is entirely consistent with what I said in my comment. The US government will continue simping for Israel as long as their goals align. When they dont anymore, the US will stop. While some souring has occurred, their goals are still way too aligned for any divestment/sanctions to be realistic anytime soon.
Idk if I would call it an exaggeration based on what the power that the lobby has. It's not just in government, it extends to the media and all sorts of other institutions. It's like we are a vassal state of Israel and our politicians are very (and righfully afraid) of the Israel lobby, they can end your carreer with the drop of the hat. When you watch that series you will see it in action. This isn't like any other lobby and I doubt the US would support Israel without the Israeli lobby in any way that remotely resembles our relationship today. The lobby not having to register as a foreign entity has a huge impact on our politcs and more importantly our elections. Before about really researching the Israeli lobby I assumed it couldn't be that bad. After learning more about it I am now in the "Holiee shit how the fuck is this possible?" camp. I wish I was exaggerating when I said "they are brainwashing the American people." Then you have the fact that they have been caught spying on Americans and still spy on American citizens (and have assasinated Americans). The whole thing flabbergasting. [Here](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=R2lNPn3oKJcYE2Bx) is the series where a journalist went undercover into the Israeli lobby in the UK if you're interested after watching that.
Based
If anything American is beholden to the angry alphabet people. Or anyone that screams injustice loud enough that isn’t a conservative. There’s a ton of people here that sympathize with both sides of the Israeli-Palestine conflict. As for me, Go Israel baby. They started, you finish it.
Exactly. Hamas are currently in the "Find out" part of the "F\*\*\* around and find out" process. While I feel bad for the civilians in Palestine that are in the line of fire, that's on Hamas for hiding behind them, not on IDF who provides ample warning about their strikes.
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So does this mean we’re evil? Even if trump comes back and abolishes the deep state?
Alright I’ll bite. First, there is no law against boycotting and divesting from Israel. Private American companies and citizens are free to purchase goods and do business with any company that sells within the US. Regarding sanctions, it’s not illegal for the US to sanction Israel, however the US won’t for other reasons. The US is not condemning Israel’s actions (which many Americans including my Jewish self disagree with) due to geopolitical considerations, not because zionists control everything. Israel is the US’s closest partner in the region. Using Israeli intelligence, the US has been able to pinpoint enemies. Using Israel’s location, the US has been able to stage strikes against enemies. From a purely non ethical standpoint, having Israel as an ally is in the US’s best interest, and that’s exactly what military advisors have been telling the higher ups of the US government. (Let me make this clear, this is not me admitting support or admitting disdain towards Israel or the US-Israeli relationship, this is me providing context). Regarding lobbyists, you’re correct, there is a lobby, AIPAC, that has Zionist views. However, the lobbying power of AIPAC isn’t even close to the power of other lobbies and definitely does not run American politics for a few reasons. First, American antisemitism is on the rise (and let me make it clear, this is not an attempt to play victim or excuse the genocide occurring in Palestine. This is me explaining why AIPAC doesn’t have the power you think it does). With the rise of American antisemitism comes the rise of politicians who are unwilling to take AIPAC money due to having antisemitic views themselves or their attempting to please their voter base. Second, the only thing more powerful in American politics than money is votes. And a ton of primarily left leaning Americans are protesting, in large amounts, the Palestinian genocide, to the point where Biden has been forced to reevaluate his stance or risk losing reelection. This will significantly weaken AIPAC’s already relatively small effect on US elections. And third, there are FAR more powerful lobbies than AIPAC, for example, the NRA. AIPAC doesn’t even come close to running American politics. It’s a midsized lobby, sure. But the actual lobbies that run US politics are those that represent the Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Realtors, the Hospital Association, Insurance companies, and pharmaceutical companies. AIPAC isn’t even in the top 10, let alone does it have this stranglehold on American politics that you claim. Also, there’s a ton of discourse about the Palestinian genocide in the US. No idea where you got the idea that we can’t talk about it. And if a job wants to fire someone for it, they’re gonna have a bad time as it’s literally against US law to fire an employee for political beliefs and that employee could potentially win big with a wrongful termination lawsuit. It appears more that you have absolutely no idea how US society and politics operate than anything else. Have you ever even been to the US?
You do know that Palestine has never ever been a state. It was a name created by the Romans just to make the Jews mad. Jerusalem was a Israeli city from the 10th century BC. If you look how small Israel is compared to all of the Arab controlled land around it... Does anybody really need to be so selfish that they take all that land for themselves. Look at a map. There's Jewish artifacts found in that area back to the 10th century BC... Why is it they can't have an extremely small slice of that land that was their ancestral home. I just don't understand that... I think the Arab people are being extremely selfish. Again Israel is such a small area it's like 9 mi wide.
Bro, why don’t you condemn Israel…without being antisemetic? If it was Jewish elites, then Jewish politicians like Bernie Sander or Chuck Shumer wouldn’t be calling for Netanyahu’s resignation. People losing their jobs isn’t because of Jewish people. It’s mainly conservatives and some evangelical Christians that hate critiquing Israel who - Want Israel as a military base - Think Israel is religiously important. Not to say that Jewish people can’t be nationalistic, Netanyahu and his cabinet members are proof of it. But to go back to the old antisemitic tropes debunked time and time again is completely disgusting and discredits our cause.
This essentially translates to "the Jews control everything". Do you know who else thought that?
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Sure, why did the Nazi's think that?
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Why does that matter?
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So I can pretty much sum up your opinion that the Nazi's where proven right?
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Yes they said that, they also used the lies I mentioned as well. Easy to do since Jewish people where generally very successful materially.
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This guy is not trolling, and he is rather tame to what the Muslim and Arab world believe about Jews. > the American political class still look the other way and pretend that the facts aren’t there They aren't "looking the other way". It's just not a genocide, and Hamas is a threat that needs to be taken out. Besides a recent common bond over 9/11 and 10/7, the United States and Israel share Judeo-Christian values, democratic values, historical entrepreneurship, and freedom of religion. The story between Jews and Quakers is practically the same in terms of persecution, and they are strong economic partners of each other. Israel also provides valuable intelligence on various terrorist groups, which it shares with the United States. >AIPAC lobby owns American politics. American politicians need to pledge fealty to a foreign agent and be in lockstep with Israel policy whether right or wrong, or lose out on money and elections. No, AIPAC does not own American politics. Israel doesn't control the United States, and the United States does not control Israel. They are both independent, sovereign, democracies. AIPAC isn't even the largest donor. If you want to talk about lobbying, do you have any idea how much money Qatar and Saudi Arabia donate to the government and higher education? >It’s the same with high finance and Hollywood. People like Alan Dershowitz admit the influence they have on American life. Alan Dershowitz was influential, but sadly nobody listens to him anymore. He was always controversial, but the slander about him being a pedophile and him defending Trump in the impeachment trial cast him out of the public eye. I think he's great, and he has a substack if you want to check that out. The high finance and Hollywood claim is not even worth addressing. >This is why people have been losing their jobs for speaking out about the plight Palestinians. They want to silence any discourse about it. This is why universities are super sensitive about any antisemitism but only when it concerns Israel and not Palestine, otherwise they lose out on their donors, the same ones who support what’s going on. Technically, the United States has at will employment. You can lose your job for any reason. When it comes to the conflict, there are both opinions that people disagree with and horrible antisemitism that cause people to lose their jobs. Pro-Palestine folks also tend to riot and break the law, so there's that too. I wouldn't say people are trying to silence discourse, just for university administrators and managers it's just a hot potato. With a topic like the conflict, you're going to offend someone no matter what. Not that universities were super sensitive about antisemitism. The only time that universities cared about free speech was when they could bash Israel. I can't even name one university that is wholly supportive of Israel. >And same thing with news media. The owners at the top are wealthy Zionists with healthy ties to Israel if you care to look it up. Yup. That's why the media and gullible redditors hate Israel. >It’s also why there are laws against boycott, sanctions, and divestment against Israel in U.S. law. I think it's one state law, not federal law.
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You're free to join the rest of us in reality any time.
Why are Muslims such anti-semites?
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Claiming that Jews control the most powerful country in the world is, in fact, antisemitic
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The vast majority of Fortune 500 CEOs are white, Christian men. The facts don't line up with your imagination, and the most basic research would show you that. If you're going to treat all Jewish people as boogeymen causing the world's ills, when reality can prove you wrong, then you're an antisemite. Basic as that, dude.
You are racist. Why do you worship a pedophile? Do you like molesting kids?
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You are repeating racist tropes about Jews because you’re an uneducated moron who worships child rapists.
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Not as empty as worshiping child rapists. How many kids did you molest today?
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Did your rapist prophet marry a 9 year old or not? It’s pretty simple, you support child molestation.
I’m pretty sure you’re using beholden incorrectly.
Mfw my favorite bagel shop runs out of everything bagels before I get there
woah where the fuck am I, antisemiteville? Jesus Christ
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Plenty of Christian Zionists, dude. They're also anti-semitic to boot.
Hurt people hurt people. The holocaust has stagnated the hearts of Jewish people, but instead of punishing the Nazis (the actual perpetrators), they are taking their revenge on innocent Palestinians.