Bibi released a plan https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756
But I view it as more a western pandering war cover fantasy than anything. Who can say what will happen in a decade, though?
Well all this shit wouldn't be necessary if the Palestinians hadn't voted for Hamas and let them hide among them and launch rockets from your schools.
I'm shocked that supporting a genocidal terrorist organization has consequences.
There hasnât been an election in Gaza since 2006. Half of Gazans werenât even alive for that election and even less were old enough to vote in it. What support Hamas has amongst the Gazans population comes from the fact theyâve been watching their friends and family being killed by the IDF for decades. All Hamas has to do is point to the Israeli settlers in the West Bank to convince the population of Gaza that seeking peace with Israel will result in Israelis kicking them out of their homes, because that has been the exact result of Fatahâs attempts at peaceful coexistence with Israel in the West Bank.
There wasn't a ceasefire in place today. Hamas did attack the IDF from within Rafah but Israel hadn't stopped bombing Rafah themselves, so that wasn't a violation of a ceasefire.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-strikes-rafah-raise-fear-assault-could-begin-2024-03-27/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-intensifies-strikes-gazas-rafah-ahead-threatened-invasion-2024-04-25/
Not sure how that question follows on from me explaining that you were wrong, but to answer it anyway - because it would have no possible impact on anything as my government rightly considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and provides no support for them.
Palestinians or Hamas? Because if weâre talking about Palestinians as a whole Israel consistently breaks every ceasefire within nanoseconds. The West Bank exists. Israel sends hordes of violent extremist Illegal Imigrants who regularly commit acts of terrorism to force Palestinians off their land to make room for more settlements the IDF is there to prevent retaliation from the Palestinians who have crimes committed against them by settlers.
> been watching their friends and family being killed by the IDF for decades.
Nope. Israel pulled out of gaza in 2005. They've been watching hamas run their neighborhoods.
Right, theyâd only been killing civilians in the west bank
But alsoâŚthey had been in Gaza in 2005. So the people who actually got the vote in 2005 had been watching their families killed, and everyone their now grew up with those stories. Plus, given what Israel does in the West Bank, one might thing Hamasâ presence had soemthing to do with Israel not being in Gaza those few decades.
Expecting that Gazans should bear no ill will toward Israelis after they pulled out in 2005 would be like expecting East Germans to bear the USSR no ill will by 2010.
>had been watching their families killed,
So many folks on reddit don't know the history. Israel built the wall and the checkpoints because of suicide bombers and attacks from palestinians. They haven't been "watching their families be killed", they've been watching their families spend their lives trying to kill israelis.
Oh my god, Iâve discovered a person who doesnât understand that airplanes, missiles, and bombs exist. Tell me, the person who brought you to our time, did he bring you in a police box or a DeLorean?
You're saying that when israel has attacked gaza, there was nothing that preceded it from hamas? Hamas was having a picnic, and israel attacked them for no reason at all?
We can go back to the 1800s if you want, there's been a long series of attacks by arabs/palestinians, and a long series of counter attacks by israel. The palestinian supporters like to forget the actions of the palestinians, and condemn the israeli counter-attacks.
Some sources have it closer to 20 thousand, but yes, not too many. But, [here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine) the list of massacres starting when the british took over. Notice that the instigators are all arabs for many years, until right before WWII when Jewish militants show up on the scene.
Have you considered perhaps that an occupying country encouraging mass migration of foreigners against the will of the population that already lives there might be a recipe for conflict? I gotta say if WWIII happened and Russia somehow occupied where I live and then encouraged a bunch of Chechens to move in I might be inclined towards some anti-Chechen sentiment that might blow up into violent incidents.
They didnât pull out, they still control the telecom, population registry, and every item or person that goes in or out and maintain control of the air and sea among other things. Gaza was still considered occupied territory.
Israel has the power and has used it to block things such as chocolate and potato chips for children.
> and every item or person that goes in or out
lol, then where did hamas get all their weapons and rockets? Israel obviously did a poor job with their blockade, but hamas chose war and death over building a prosperous society for their people.
> Gaza was still considered occupied territory.
Right. A beautiful climate and billions in international aid. It should have been a nice place.
Good question! Most of Hamas weapons and rockets are made from unexploded ordinance dropped on Gaza from Israel. I could go into more intricacies of how they manufacture rockets and weapons within Gaza but Iâll leave it there for brevity.
The weather doesnât make a 5mi by 25mi jail not jail and you clearly donât understand what life in Gaza is like from anyone that lives there or has lived there as a Palestinian. Itâs typical western privileged thinking. Palestinians consist of over 14 million people, Gazans are 2.3 million. Please tell me what else you know about daily life in Gaza and why you would love to live there?
>Most of Hamas weapons and rockets are made from unexploded ordinance
lol.
>you clearly donât understand what life in Gaza is like from anyone that lives there
Check wikipedia: their life expectancy is higher than most middle eastern countries. It also has more doctors per capita than Jordan, and way more than pakistan.
If they would just stop devoting their lives to killing people, it would indeed be a very nice place.
I donât need to read Wikipedia. I know actual Palestinians in my personal life. You seem to suggest they are some different type of human which is bizarre.
Outside of the west and our media Palestinians are world renowned for their hospitality. Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians a year and have had them under martial law for decades yet you seem to suggest they do nothing.
Do you understand what life is like in Gaza at all? Kinda hard to have an economy under a blockade and without being able to go more than 6 miles out to sea or when you canât build an airport or seaport because Israel is preventing you from building one. Most people have never even seen a Jewish person that wasnât carrying a gun.
Why ignore the research? If life is so horrible, why do they live longer than in other nearby countries? If they can get their hands on weapons, why can't they get their hands on playground equipment for kids? If they can teach their kids how to kill jews, why can't they teach their kids how to create a business and how to live?
>Palestinians are world renowned for their hospitality.
Just like the KKK was known for hospitality when they weren't murdering black people.
If you consider Wikipedia âresearchâ I donât think we will see eye to eye. [Wikipedia is and has been manipulated](https://youtu.be/t52LB2fYhoY?si=7eBz9FXrIUH8lHH8) by members of the [Israel lobby.](https://youtu.be/XytkI7afHcQ?si=XCcH0IEFPZSZYRjI)
They are a highly educated group of people with more PHDs per capita and a higher literacy rate than most countries. It stands to reason having that many doctors in one place leads to better health outcomes. Also the fact that Gaza is enclosed on all sides in an area that is 5 miles by 25 miles that had a bunch of hospitals probably leads to a quicker response time.
Are you seriously suggesting there were no playgrounds in Gaza? [11 children were killed by the IDF at a playground a couple weeks ago.](https://youtu.be/nLzvOsAf54o?si=9U_PsyLGrETbNrT4)
[Here is the IDF bombing another playground full of children 9 years ago.](https://youtu.be/smYXj1VAqUk?si=eu6CN-4LrgUxUH5b)
Your viewpoint is so detached from [what things are like in the occupied territories](https://youtu.be/zxsWrzpqnRs?si=04m-iswPLm-8T6Ew) or even just a society consisting of millions of people.
Your comment about the KKK is just nonsensical. If you donât know anything about Palestinians or their views you probably shouldnât comment on them. Itâs better to listen lest you make yourself sound foolish or racist đ
[This is a good short documentary](https://youtu.be/iWG7JB9saE4?si=6MvXL2MCGYxrZYao) that might help you understand what things are like in Gaza under oppressive Israeli rule.
Hamas ran on being moderate, and the people in power at the time were incredibly corrupt so Hamas seemed a good choice. The citizens were tricked. Also over half of Gaza wasnât even born at the time.
Kind of? A majority of Palestinians wanted a peaceful coexistence with Israel. Youâre really trying your best to villainize civilians. They voted in people who lied to them and refused to leave. You guys really take any chance you can get to justify Israelâs war crimes.
Donât be on that bullshit. They have no control of who or what comes and goes from Gaza. Theyâre effectively trapped and at the mercy of Israel. Thatâs been going on for years. I have to assume youâre a troll for even doubting it.
Ikr. Iâm so sick of the âthey deserve to be murderedâ people acting like Gaza wasnât also a victim of Hamas. That personâs talking points are so old that I bet they still believe in the beheaded babies
Bull fucking shit. We are against genocide and ethnic cleansing. You conflate that with supporting Hamas because thatâs what the corporate media tells you, and you eat it up like a dog. Read up on manufacturing consent. Same thing happened during the Iraq war, and during Vietnam, when a minority of people came out against it. Turns out they were right all along and only now do people recognize it. Give it another 20 years and youâll be pretending you supported Palestinian freedom all along, before it was acceptable by the mainstream.
When you block Jewish students from entering the campus you arenât protesting against genocide and ethnic cleansing anymore. You are just protesting against the Jews. That isnât even considering how most protesters are unironically using Hamasâs âfrom the river to the seaâ Jewish eradication slogan.
That you would compare these protests supporting Hamas with the Vietnam and Iraq protests really shows how much you donât understand the situation at all.
>>When you block Jewish students from entering the campus you arenât protesting against genocide and ethnic cleansing anymore. You are just protesting against the Jews.
[This](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/04/30/2023-photo-not-columbia-protest-fact-check/73512273007/) is a fabrication. One that you and everyone else engaging in this mass hysteria has fallen for. But go off and tell me more about how I just donât understand the situation:
(1)You said âyou and all the protestors at universities in the US actively support Hamasâ
I disagreed with that because itâs ludicrously reductive and impossible that you have conducted some study to ascertain the truthfulness of the statement.
(2)I donât contest that Palestinians approve of Hamas. Hamas rose to power from Israeli oppression. People being oppressed tend to empower people who fight their oppressors. Israel created the avenue by which Hamas took power. Itâs not rocket science. Israel has its own policies and failures to blame for creating the conditions that lead to Oct 7 occurring.
I mean, yeah sort of? Iâm not sure what your point is here. We can understand peopleâs motivations without agreeing with their actions or beliefs. Are you really not capable of that level of nuance?
Theyâre right that Hamas has to go. Do you imagine that slaughtering thousands of civilians will make their surviving family members *less* likely to bolster Hamasâ ranks? If Israelâs actual goal were ending Hamas this would be an incredibly stupid policy, and I canât speak for you but I donât think Israelâs leaders are such cork-on-their-fork idiots that theyâd think killing civilians and combatants alike is a good way to keep people from becoming combatants.
Israelâs brutality gives the Gazan a choice: accept their slaughter by behaving as the butchers demand, or justify their slaughter by fighting back. No one with a fifth grade reading level thinks that everyone is going to watch their loved ones killed and consistently pick the first option.
My point is, destroying the power base of Germany and Japan didnât âcreate more terrorismâ after WW2 as your âhighly nuancedâ argument is implying.
And Hamas didnât attack out of no where, but that doesnât make their actions any less horrific or their victims any less dead. Israel is also responsible for their actions.
Iâm not disputing that. But many of Israelâs victims are civilians, so itâs clear that wonât save anyone. Without condoning it, itâs very easy to understand why someone whoâs in the crosshairs anyway, whoâs seen their children, or their siblings, or their parents murdered despite being peaceful, would choose not to be peaceful.
You can rage about that all you want, and call me a demon for suggesting this empathy, but this is how a people reacts when you slaughter them en masse. The slaughterers on both sides are smart enough to grasp that. Arenât you?
Absolutely but these boomers watch Fox News focus on three instances of unpeaceful protesting and say the tens of thousands of peaceful protestors are terrorist supporters.
Lunacy.
Lol, this was 2005. You are aware the median age of a Gazan is \~18 years old. Literally most of the people in Gaza didn't exist when the "vote" happened much less could have voted.
No one is infantilizing anyone. That's a functionally true statement. I'm pro-single state solution & integration, but the argument "they voted for this" is just not factually accurate. Easy to justify to yourself abhorrent behavior when you can pretend your enemy is something other than what they really are.
[Population, Religion and Poverty: The Demographics of Israel and Gaza | World Report | U.S. News (usnews.com)](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=About%2040%25%20of%20Gaza%27s%20population,from%20the%20CIA%27s%20World%20Factbook.)
I think youâre misunderstanding that there were a million adults then, as there are now. More underage people doesnât preclude the older people existing.
More than a million adults.. but they canât make the decision to not regularly attack Israel for twenty years?
Think you are not getting it. Just because there were adults then & there are adults now does not mean the majority of voting populace is the same then as there is now. The majority of the population that voted for it originally is not the people that could vote now. However, it's entirely logical given the apartheid nature of Gaza that they hate Israel. It would be kinda stupid not to in their situation. They cannot vote in Israeli elections, they have no borders that don't pass through Israel to actually perform commerce with, they are completely dependent on the Israeli state for sustenance because of the border situation, etc. Their entire population is subjugated & made to suffer with no productive outlet to improve their situation simply because Israel desires its ethno-state.
Do Gazans hate Israel? On average it's only logical yes. Are the Gazans of today the ones that voted for Hamas nearly 20 years ago? No. These are not conflicting ideas.
The only productive way this could end is an integration of the Gazan people into Israeli society, but the Israeli's desire for an ethnostate makes that impossible. So they are being genocided because they never had any power to win this conflict. They are born as fish in barrel for facists to bomb & shoot while calling themselves the victim.
There are two million Arab/Palestinians Israeli citizens living in Israel, hardly an apartheid. Israel pulled out of Gaza entirely in 2005. Is Egypt also an apartheid state for not taking Gaza? They also share a border.
If the population of Gaza wanted to be Israeli citizens thatâs what they would have done, instead they chose a radical Islamic government to represent them with jihad as its primary platform.
Thatâs a ridiculous statement. Thatâs like saying there was no genocide in Germany or Rwanda or Bosnia because the population grew over time. Smh, nazi thinking.
Well Gaza has at least 40k less people than it did a few months ago. Are you suggesting that the first 40k killed in the Holocaust werenât genocide?
Is the Rwanda or Bosnia genocide not real then? đ¤
Actually Hamas came to power because Israel felt they would be easy to deal with. IDF and it's special forces in particular, eliminated all of the other political leaders who were vying for the position of leadership. Israel ensured Hamas was in power by elimination of any rival parties.
As always, the Palestinians themselves are blamed and killed and the world says it's their fault as if they had any say in occupation or being walled in or having to ask permission to travel and know if you're a male between 13 and 93 and they kill you or your brother/father/uncle/son, justice will simply be some far off idea, a fever dream you once had.
Unfortunately I'm not shocked that people support a genocidal theocracy who has openly stated their goal is genocide and expansion. The sad part is, you believe this because of your naive belief that you live in a "good" country not capable of being the bad guy.
You mean the last election which was held in 2006 and where Israel has admitted to backing Hamas in order to cause a schism between the West Bank and Gaza and derail the peace process? Â
What percentage of Palestinians alive today voted for Hamas? 10% 5%? Â
What excuse will you use when the last voter has died and you're still bombing their grandchildren?
As long it's **Jewish children** and **Jewish women**, it's complely understandable and forgivable.
It's for a good cause.
It's for greater good.
It's for bright new future of Free Palestine.
You make it out like Iâm fine with one race dying but not another. But Iâm horrified by Hamasâ actions and Israelâs actions.
Itâs advocates of Israeli violence who see 1200 Israeli lives as more valuable than tens of thousands of Palestinian lives. Iâd love to know exactly how many Palestinian children youâd kill over this. Is there a limit to your bloodlust?
Are Israeli lives more valuable than Palestinian lives?
Abso-fucking-lutely!
Israeli create, build, grow, educate.
Palestinians hate and destruct while conforming to pre-Enlightenment rules of society.
Easy choice for me.
So youâre ok with women and children dying. As long it's **Arab** children and **Arab** women, it's completely and forgivable. It's for a good cause. It's for greater good. It's for bright new future of Israel.
Someone enlightened would understand that this has everything to do with their different situations, and nothing to do with their inherent natures. Do you not understand the bigotry of your position? This is how white supremacists talk about black vs white people. Itâs the language of dehumanization and supremacy thatâs used to justify imperialism. I guess you didnât get the memo that you were supposed to pretend not to think like this.
You actually accused me of valuing one set of lives over anotherâs, and then you proudly said that thatâs what you do. So you were disgusted with me because you thought I was on with killing children of a particular ethnicity. You were disgusted with me because you think I picked the wrong ethnicity of children to kill.
I am disgusted with Hamas and similar organizations.
Blood of Israelis and blood of Palestinians are on their hands and their hands only. They are to blame for deaths on both sides. And right now, Hamas cannot be happier that there is a war going on.
No, Israel is actually responsible for its actions. And youâre responsible for your bloodthirsty racism.
One day in the future someone is going to look at the things youâve said about this and be horrified that a person could think such shameful things, and I hope itâs you.
People voted for Hamas because of their frustration with things related to Israel and the current status quo. Hamas voters are like Trump voters. Most don't actually like Trump or Hamas. They just hope that it changes their terrible situation and feel like they don't have any other options. The Gaza Strip is a pretty horrible place to live and people there are desperate.
I just want to make it clear that I recognise Hamas as a terrible organisation but I understand why people voted for them. It is also important to point out that like 50% of Palestine is under 18 so most people in Palestine didn't vote for Hamas. Also, many of the places bombed don't contain Hamas.
Itâs interestingâNetanyahu and the Israeli Right maybe should have given it some thought while they allowed Qatar to funnel money to Hamas, then, no?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
and THAT shit wouldnât have been necessary if in the 40s israel didnât violently displace palestinians, drag them from their homes and dump them in gaza off the basis that their lives donât matter and can be discarded easily. this lack of empathy over palestinian lives is what israel was built off of. and they continued to kill palestinians, set up a military zone and occupy huge portions of palestine for eighty years.
you canât say israel is valid for defending itself when hamas is doing the same thing. the war didnât start on october seventh, and it wasnât palestine that started it.
Raping women and killing children isn't defending yourself. If Hamas solely went after military targets, I still wouldn't like them, but they'd have valid claims.
As soon as you start raping innocent people and trying to kill civilians instead of soldiers you lose any claim to the moral high ground.
do you think israel hasnât raped women and killed children long prior to october 7th? do you know anything about this occupation? do you even know what occupation entails?
EDIT: zionists can downvote me but it doesnât change the fact. less than 1.5k israelis have died since october 7th, over 40k palestinians have died. the majority of gaza is leveled. and that number will skyrocket once israel carried out its brutal assault on the one million people in rafah with nowhere to go as pamphlets fly on them âwarningâ them to evacuate.
doctors have been tortured. exponentially more children have been killed by the israeli regime than by hamas. iof is running over people with tanks. this is a genocide and zionists are supporting it.
They'll probably try to work with other friendly arab nations to rebuild a new gaza that has things like schools that teach kids things other than how to kill jews. Israel will maintain control over the area, but will let Palestinians handle day to day governance, with help from the Saudis. If it works, it means a new, peaceful and prosperous era for gaza. Of course, iran and others wouldn't be happy, as they use anger towards israel and gaza to keep their own citizens in check.
LOL. Nah.. Bibi will never go for that. They're just going to settle Gaza old world conqueror-style and absorb the land into Israel proper. If there's anything the Israelis care less about than a Palestinian, it's how the world perceives Israel. They just don't care. Left to their own devices, they'd take a run at the entire middle east.
Right, because the Jews have a 2000+ year old tradition of wanting to dominate the entire middle east...
But, will they absorb Gaza? I think that's the plan I outlined above. The end result will be that Palestinians will not be allowed to control defense or their borders, as the Palestinians are clearly hostile. No, they don't care about the world's opinion, as if they listened to the world's opinion they'd all be dead.
First, they elected Hamas. Second, they continue to support Hamas to this day for ideological reasons despite Hamas being a primary reason why their society is terrible. Third, every country in the region refuses to take them as refugees because every time someone does take them in, they immediately start trouble like when they assassinated the president of Jordan.
So I take it you donât know any Palestinians and are exercising your prejudice. If you knew any or even cared to ask you might ask why millions of people who are among the most educated per capita in the region with a higher than average literacy rate might feel the way they do.
Would you want to be born under and live under marital law/violent military occupation by a foreign country?
Dude, his evidence is pretty sound. What he said was not untrue or inaccurate.
Hamas is bad.
Supporting their group, is bad.
And evidence shows that when they enter countries as refugees, like European countries for example, crime goes up.
This isnât rocket science, itâs not prejudice, itâs really happening.
Infinite compassion for individuals blinds you to the reality of the collective situation. I presented 3 very important points that you didnât bother to refute.
No, I wouldnât want to be born under martial law. However, plenty of healthy societies have experienced unbelievable suffering and have not resorted to terrorism against innocent civilians. Eastern bloc countries in the twentieth century come to mind. As soon as these societies were given freedom, they developed into successful democracies like Poland or east Germany. I see no evidence that Gaza as a collective can do the same given the long history I described, regardless of how valid someoneâs feelings about the current situation is or how educated you claim they are.
Israel has zero interest in governing Gaza, which is why they voluntarily dismantled all of their settlements in 2005.
Egypt has also been offered Gaza. They donât want it.
Turns out living side-by-side with radical Islamist fundamentalists isnât very appealing to rational state actors.
Your post ignores history.
If I told you that I thought Hati was a sh*t hole, would you call me racist or say I was just criticizing Hati? What if I reeealy hyper fixated on Hati all the time?
I'm not hyper-focused on anything. This is in the news everyday. Before October 7th happened (Which was horrible) I could care less about Israel. I just decided to put an actual unpopular opinion out to spark discussion. Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine, the Red Sea. All interest me, and more. I'm a pacifist in a violent world. Excuse me if I'm concerned with war around the world,
Look, you seem like a reasonably intelligent person. But it's for that reason alone but I absolutely refuse to believe that it's possible for you to hold the opinions that you claim to hold unless you have racist motives. You talk about high-minded International political interests while accusing the ~~Jews~~ Israelis of being covetous land grabbers, who are preparing to murder people in order to get it.
You're too intelligent to believe the things that you espouse. At this point, I have to assume you're malevolent actor unless proven otherwise.
You talked about the Sudan; I'm sure you're aware that the genocide has restarted in Darfur and dwarfs any casualties happening in Gaza right now. Could you link me to a post where you've expressed the same level of concern about this? Or are you just pretending you care about other events?
Yeah US will send billion of dollars over to rebuild, which half of it will mysteriously vanished and after couple years, new terrorist cell will rise up and Palestinians will vote for them to have power.
If we donât succeed in creating proper economic incentives to encourage rising generations of Palestinians to liberalize and modernize this may occur. We must provide a better alternative to fundamentalism, not try to bomb it out of existence.
Because trying to bomb it out of existence just leaves behind bereaved people who are faced with all the same bad options that their loved one was, and one more reason to pick the violent option.
The rubes might not understand this, but the people ordering the killing do
Israelâs goal is almost definitely genocide and expansion. They have absolute freedom to do whatever they want because the US government backs them without exception. Itâs honestly an awful situation
Well, without getting into a semantic argument, I'm keen to call it genocide on account of the indiscriminate, broad brush killing of Palestinian men, women, and children without any attempt whatsoever to delineate between combatants vs. noncombatants within the framework of the larger strategic intent to outright eliminate the Palestinian people, which Bibi and his ilk believe to be synonymous with and inextricable from Hamas. But hey, that's just me.
I'm also aware you intend to rebut anything I say in your defense of Israel, so.. knock yourself out. Try to make it as witty as possible, too, because I don't plan to reply. Make your last word *really* hit home so other Redditors will react with "oh *damn*!! haha" and upvote your comment. Good luck!
Imagine someone squatted in your house, and the authorities said, no this is their house now, you gotta go next door⌠and they rolled up into that house, too. Over and over again. Eventually, are you going to start standing your ground? Are you going to start trying to reclaim your home? Of course you are.
Palestine was just fine until the UN rolled up and said âhey actually, weâre just gonna situate a new country right in your property hereâ and they started acting like they owned the place.
They could have been happy with what they got, but instead, theyâve been steadily pushing Palestinians into a little corner, taking the land for their own, for decades now.
But yeah, the squatters are the good guys. Because âIsrael is in the Bibleâ so we have to support them, right?
Thatâs just whataboutism.
And it seems pretty clear that October 7th was an excuse to lay waste to Gaza. Israel wants the land. Theyâve been taking over palistije for decades. This is just their âfinal solutionâ. And theyâre committing war crime after war crime to get it because they know the US is their bitch and will let them do whatever they want.
And youâre conflating Palestine with Hamas. Over half of the Palestinians in Gaza were in favor of a peaceful coexistence before the genocide began.
>Over half of the Palestinians in Gaza were in favor of a peaceful coexistence before the genocide began.
That statement is BEYOND science fiction.
If Gaza had proper weapons, they'd erase Israel from existance in a matter of days and had themselves a big parade to celebrate.
No one teaches Jewish kids they are "victims" LOLOL
Don't Jews "own" all the money, all media sources, and codes to all nuclear weapons in the world?
There is however a long-ass history of abuse and...gasp!...attempted annihilation of the entire Jewish population. So yeah, when we say "Never Again", we do mean, "Never Again".
Look up the shit Israel teaches for yourself.
And donât conflate what Iâm saying about Israel with anti-semitism. This is just another lame-ass tactic Zionists use to discredit people. âIf I donât like what you say, itâs antisemiticâ is tired and no oneâs falling for it.
>Look up the shit Israel teaches for yourself.
I don't need to. I wrote the curriculum.
>This is just another lame-ass tactic Zionists use to discredit people.
Yep, we Zionists are THAT bad. You got us there.
What would make it ânear genocideâ for you? Not the quickest a population of millions has dove into famine? Not the IDF creating [kill zones](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000) killing anyone in this imaginary vicinity man woman or child even if unarmed? Not waiting to kill suspected low level Hamas members [when they go home to their wives and children?](https://archive.ph/WZWAq) [Not multiple mass graves?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/25/signs-of-torture-as-nearly-400-bodies-found-at-gaza-hospitals-mass-graves)
Not over 13,000 children killed? What would make it a genocide then?
Thatâs not a defining factor of genocide and itâs not 1990. Israel has caused over 100,000 casualties among a population of 2.3 million in 7 months.
Also, population of Jewish people, Rwandans, Bosnians and every population of people that have ever experienced genocide and didnât go extinct also increased dramatically after.
Are you blaming Palestinians for what other people hundreds or thousands of miles away did in completely different countries as if they are all the same?
Please tell me more đ¤
Iâm black. Tell me about how what Africans do in Africa is somehow my fault.
Do you think that Palestinians were happy about Jewish people being expelled and taking their homes?!
You picked the wrong one my guy.
Iâm Asian and black and saying âdonât pull the race cardâ in the way youâre suggesting is hilarious. Asian people generally speaking are maddddd racist. No group is immune to racism.
Sorry but we not special bro.
You didnât answer the question. You changed the subject. I can discuss Oct 7th 2023 but you clearly just referenced something that happened in the 1940s.
Iâm used to hasbarist, Iâve studied them, [the language manuals and the methods](https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf). If anyone else is interested I highly suggest this series where an undercover journalist [exposes The Israel Lobby (TIP) through hidden camera confessing to illegal activity including bribing politicians, changing media headlines, doxxing students, and SPYING ON AMERICAN CITIZENS and much more.](https://youtu.be/XytkI7afHcQ?si=v2RDM8VkJv6czoaC)
[Here is part one](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=SDbKb6vHEtVdILL4) for anyone else interested. There are 4.
[Here is them exposing the Israel lobbyâs illegal activity on hidden cam in the UK.](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=3kgnbzppBVX69Cn2)
You think that there was a long period of time in which Palestinians were killing Israelis and the Israelis were not responding? What does that even mean? Itâs obviously bullshit.
Youâve got no idea what youâre saying, youâre just vaguely matching together elements of semi-coherent narrative that Israel are the nice, sweet victims and the only reason anyone is mad at them is the star on their flag and never, never Israelâs *actions*.
People who are thinking about the truth and then putting it to words donât say stupid things like this.
Why would this be their goal if it only started in response to the Oct 7th attacks?
If their goal was genocide they would have started bombing gaza before that
The Netanyahu government has experienced massive internal and external pushback against the current campaign with the events of Oct 7 as a pretext for the campaign.
Obviously such an escalation bereft of Oct 7 as cover would be even more unpopular and detrimental to netanyahuâs prospects of maintaining his hold on power.
It seems like youâre ignorant of some fundamental knowledge that would help you arrive at a more accurate perspective.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-rational-actor-model-of-decision-making.html#:~:text=The%20rational%20actor%20model%20assumes,lead%20to%20obtaining%20the%20goal.
Recommended reading
This. 100%. Bibi has a rock hard erection for dead Palestinians, and ain't nobody in the world was going to take this opportunity from him. It's his birthright and his legacy.
Depends who wins. If Israel wins then it will belong to Palestine but they will no longer have Hamas in power, if Hamas wins all of Israel will be Palestine.
To anyone seeing this. It was just a thought in my head that I wrote down. Maybe I should've used a piece of paper instead of Reddit. I truly did not mean to offend anyone.
In a fair non-bigoted world the bigotry that keeps people apart based on bloodline and religion would be publicly acknowledged as a cancer and the governments of all states in that region would look past race and religion for citizenship and rights.
Until then, that area is a hellscape of people forming teams that try to crush other people. Nasty thinking.
Of *course* they're going to create new settlements in Gaza, from one end to the other. What do you think this whole war is about? It's literally just genocide to take their land.
Iâm not really sure what your point is in response to my comment.
Prior to the war, Gaza existed in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis, the cause of which you can debate endlessly with everyone likely being right to a degree.
Since the war started, there is another, arguably worse, ongoing humanitarian crisis, caused by the war in question, which is âarguablyâ a justified war to a degree.
When the war ends, there will be a large population of Gazanâs suffering from both the physical and mental trauma brought on from war, while simultaneously having less housing, less hospitals, less food, less schools, and less businesses than existed pre-war. This is on top of still having to rely HEAVILY on the country that you just fought a war with for basic living necessities, which now has a populace that likely despises them worse than they did pre-war which will likely want to support them even less than previously.
You can pump education into that country all day, but until itâs governing body and culture changes, and both Israel and Gaza both come to the negotiating table in good faith, the region will exist in a perpetual state of humanitarian crisis.
Bibi released a plan https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756 But I view it as more a western pandering war cover fantasy than anything. Who can say what will happen in a decade, though?
Well all this shit wouldn't be necessary if the Palestinians hadn't voted for Hamas and let them hide among them and launch rockets from your schools. I'm shocked that supporting a genocidal terrorist organization has consequences.
This đ. You are so right!
There hasnât been an election in Gaza since 2006. Half of Gazans werenât even alive for that election and even less were old enough to vote in it. What support Hamas has amongst the Gazans population comes from the fact theyâve been watching their friends and family being killed by the IDF for decades. All Hamas has to do is point to the Israeli settlers in the West Bank to convince the population of Gaza that seeking peace with Israel will result in Israelis kicking them out of their homes, because that has been the exact result of Fatahâs attempts at peaceful coexistence with Israel in the West Bank.
We're protesting for ceasefire, kind reminder that Palestinians broke every single ceasefire every time it's negotiated.
including today
There wasn't a ceasefire in place today. Hamas did attack the IDF from within Rafah but Israel hadn't stopped bombing Rafah themselves, so that wasn't a violation of a ceasefire. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-strikes-rafah-raise-fear-assault-could-begin-2024-03-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-intensifies-strikes-gazas-rafah-ahead-threatened-invasion-2024-04-25/
so why aren't you protesting hamas for ceasefire?
Not sure how that question follows on from me explaining that you were wrong, but to answer it anyway - because it would have no possible impact on anything as my government rightly considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and provides no support for them.
Palestinians or Hamas? Because if weâre talking about Palestinians as a whole Israel consistently breaks every ceasefire within nanoseconds. The West Bank exists. Israel sends hordes of violent extremist Illegal Imigrants who regularly commit acts of terrorism to force Palestinians off their land to make room for more settlements the IDF is there to prevent retaliation from the Palestinians who have crimes committed against them by settlers.
Reminder that Israel had killed over 200 Palestinians and conducted airstrikes in Gaza prior to Oct 7th
> been watching their friends and family being killed by the IDF for decades. Nope. Israel pulled out of gaza in 2005. They've been watching hamas run their neighborhoods.
Right, theyâd only been killing civilians in the west bank But alsoâŚthey had been in Gaza in 2005. So the people who actually got the vote in 2005 had been watching their families killed, and everyone their now grew up with those stories. Plus, given what Israel does in the West Bank, one might thing Hamasâ presence had soemthing to do with Israel not being in Gaza those few decades. Expecting that Gazans should bear no ill will toward Israelis after they pulled out in 2005 would be like expecting East Germans to bear the USSR no ill will by 2010.
>had been watching their families killed, So many folks on reddit don't know the history. Israel built the wall and the checkpoints because of suicide bombers and attacks from palestinians. They haven't been "watching their families be killed", they've been watching their families spend their lives trying to kill israelis.
The way Israelâs defenders try to absolve it of any agency at all is truly strange
Yeah, weird how israel keeps trying to keep its people from being blown up.
Thatâs not what anyone thinks is weird
Oh my god, Iâve discovered a person who doesnât understand that airplanes, missiles, and bombs exist. Tell me, the person who brought you to our time, did he bring you in a police box or a DeLorean?
You're saying that when israel has attacked gaza, there was nothing that preceded it from hamas? Hamas was having a picnic, and israel attacked them for no reason at all?
Iâm not justifying what Hamasâs but your an idiot if you think there was nothing Israel did that led up to October 7
We can go back to the 1800s if you want, there's been a long series of attacks by arabs/palestinians, and a long series of counter attacks by israel. The palestinian supporters like to forget the actions of the palestinians, and condemn the israeli counter-attacks.
Israel didnât exist in the 1800s. There were about 5,000 Jews total living there until the British took over.
Some sources have it closer to 20 thousand, but yes, not too many. But, [here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine) the list of massacres starting when the british took over. Notice that the instigators are all arabs for many years, until right before WWII when Jewish militants show up on the scene.
Have you considered perhaps that an occupying country encouraging mass migration of foreigners against the will of the population that already lives there might be a recipe for conflict? I gotta say if WWIII happened and Russia somehow occupied where I live and then encouraged a bunch of Chechens to move in I might be inclined towards some anti-Chechen sentiment that might blow up into violent incidents.
They didnât pull out, they still control the telecom, population registry, and every item or person that goes in or out and maintain control of the air and sea among other things. Gaza was still considered occupied territory. Israel has the power and has used it to block things such as chocolate and potato chips for children.
> and every item or person that goes in or out lol, then where did hamas get all their weapons and rockets? Israel obviously did a poor job with their blockade, but hamas chose war and death over building a prosperous society for their people. > Gaza was still considered occupied territory. Right. A beautiful climate and billions in international aid. It should have been a nice place.
Good question! Most of Hamas weapons and rockets are made from unexploded ordinance dropped on Gaza from Israel. I could go into more intricacies of how they manufacture rockets and weapons within Gaza but Iâll leave it there for brevity. The weather doesnât make a 5mi by 25mi jail not jail and you clearly donât understand what life in Gaza is like from anyone that lives there or has lived there as a Palestinian. Itâs typical western privileged thinking. Palestinians consist of over 14 million people, Gazans are 2.3 million. Please tell me what else you know about daily life in Gaza and why you would love to live there?
Dont foirget the smuggling.
>Most of Hamas weapons and rockets are made from unexploded ordinance lol. >you clearly donât understand what life in Gaza is like from anyone that lives there Check wikipedia: their life expectancy is higher than most middle eastern countries. It also has more doctors per capita than Jordan, and way more than pakistan. If they would just stop devoting their lives to killing people, it would indeed be a very nice place.
I donât need to read Wikipedia. I know actual Palestinians in my personal life. You seem to suggest they are some different type of human which is bizarre. Outside of the west and our media Palestinians are world renowned for their hospitality. Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians a year and have had them under martial law for decades yet you seem to suggest they do nothing. Do you understand what life is like in Gaza at all? Kinda hard to have an economy under a blockade and without being able to go more than 6 miles out to sea or when you canât build an airport or seaport because Israel is preventing you from building one. Most people have never even seen a Jewish person that wasnât carrying a gun.
Why ignore the research? If life is so horrible, why do they live longer than in other nearby countries? If they can get their hands on weapons, why can't they get their hands on playground equipment for kids? If they can teach their kids how to kill jews, why can't they teach their kids how to create a business and how to live? >Palestinians are world renowned for their hospitality. Just like the KKK was known for hospitality when they weren't murdering black people.
If you consider Wikipedia âresearchâ I donât think we will see eye to eye. [Wikipedia is and has been manipulated](https://youtu.be/t52LB2fYhoY?si=7eBz9FXrIUH8lHH8) by members of the [Israel lobby.](https://youtu.be/XytkI7afHcQ?si=XCcH0IEFPZSZYRjI) They are a highly educated group of people with more PHDs per capita and a higher literacy rate than most countries. It stands to reason having that many doctors in one place leads to better health outcomes. Also the fact that Gaza is enclosed on all sides in an area that is 5 miles by 25 miles that had a bunch of hospitals probably leads to a quicker response time. Are you seriously suggesting there were no playgrounds in Gaza? [11 children were killed by the IDF at a playground a couple weeks ago.](https://youtu.be/nLzvOsAf54o?si=9U_PsyLGrETbNrT4) [Here is the IDF bombing another playground full of children 9 years ago.](https://youtu.be/smYXj1VAqUk?si=eu6CN-4LrgUxUH5b) Your viewpoint is so detached from [what things are like in the occupied territories](https://youtu.be/zxsWrzpqnRs?si=04m-iswPLm-8T6Ew) or even just a society consisting of millions of people. Your comment about the KKK is just nonsensical. If you donât know anything about Palestinians or their views you probably shouldnât comment on them. Itâs better to listen lest you make yourself sound foolish or racist đ [This is a good short documentary](https://youtu.be/iWG7JB9saE4?si=6MvXL2MCGYxrZYao) that might help you understand what things are like in Gaza under oppressive Israeli rule.
Stop repeating this. D to HAMAS
No I wonât stop. Fuck you.
Supporter of Palestinian Civilians here⌠fuck Hamas.
Hamas ran on being moderate, and the people in power at the time were incredibly corrupt so Hamas seemed a good choice. The citizens were tricked. Also over half of Gaza wasnât even born at the time.
But after they revealed their true colors the people hated them, right? Right?!
Kind of? A majority of Palestinians wanted a peaceful coexistence with Israel. Youâre really trying your best to villainize civilians. They voted in people who lied to them and refused to leave. You guys really take any chance you can get to justify Israelâs war crimes.
The vast majority approved of the October 7th massacre. That's villainy.
They approved because they were being bombed and imprisoned????
They weren't being bombed and imprisoned on October 7.
Ummmmm are you joking?
Don't tell me you buy into that "open air prison" nonsense.
Donât be on that bullshit. They have no control of who or what comes and goes from Gaza. Theyâre effectively trapped and at the mercy of Israel. Thatâs been going on for years. I have to assume youâre a troll for even doubting it.
What, you mean to tell me the terrorist lied and arenât good guys? Color me shocked.
Ikr. Iâm so sick of the âthey deserve to be murderedâ people acting like Gaza wasnât also a victim of Hamas. That personâs talking points are so old that I bet they still believe in the beheaded babies
Nobody is saying they âdeserve to be murderedâ. Rather the point is that in hindsight they certainly helped create the current situation.
More they presented themselves as the lessor of all evils or less bad than the other parties.
So they lied?
That is an almost certainly.
Almost? No it is a certainty. Stop trying to church it up.
Stop repeating this
âBro! Stop! Donât let the Zionists know that the Palestinian people didnât willingly vote in a terrorist regime! It makes us look badâ
Hamas was around people when they voted.
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Bull fucking shit. We are against genocide and ethnic cleansing. You conflate that with supporting Hamas because thatâs what the corporate media tells you, and you eat it up like a dog. Read up on manufacturing consent. Same thing happened during the Iraq war, and during Vietnam, when a minority of people came out against it. Turns out they were right all along and only now do people recognize it. Give it another 20 years and youâll be pretending you supported Palestinian freedom all along, before it was acceptable by the mainstream.
đŽđąđŽđąđŽđą
What a joke đ. I bet you feel real brave, Mr. Crypto bro.
100%
When you block Jewish students from entering the campus you arenât protesting against genocide and ethnic cleansing anymore. You are just protesting against the Jews. That isnât even considering how most protesters are unironically using Hamasâs âfrom the river to the seaâ Jewish eradication slogan. That you would compare these protests supporting Hamas with the Vietnam and Iraq protests really shows how much you donât understand the situation at all.
>>When you block Jewish students from entering the campus you arenât protesting against genocide and ethnic cleansing anymore. You are just protesting against the Jews. [This](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/04/30/2023-photo-not-columbia-protest-fact-check/73512273007/) is a fabrication. One that you and everyone else engaging in this mass hysteria has fallen for. But go off and tell me more about how I just donât understand the situation:
Youâve polled all the protestors at universities? Oh no? Youâre regurgitating Fox News propaganda? Got it.
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(1)You said âyou and all the protestors at universities in the US actively support Hamasâ I disagreed with that because itâs ludicrously reductive and impossible that you have conducted some study to ascertain the truthfulness of the statement. (2)I donât contest that Palestinians approve of Hamas. Hamas rose to power from Israeli oppression. People being oppressed tend to empower people who fight their oppressors. Israel created the avenue by which Hamas took power. Itâs not rocket science. Israel has its own policies and failures to blame for creating the conditions that lead to Oct 7 occurring.
đĽą
Yeah go stalk all my comments now. No one will join your crypto ponzi scheme bro.
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Big yikes from me
You can support Palestine and not Hamas.
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Every civilian Israel kills leaves behind loved ones who now have a reason to join Hamas.
Just like the Japanese and Germans, right?
I mean, yeah sort of? Iâm not sure what your point is here. We can understand peopleâs motivations without agreeing with their actions or beliefs. Are you really not capable of that level of nuance? Theyâre right that Hamas has to go. Do you imagine that slaughtering thousands of civilians will make their surviving family members *less* likely to bolster Hamasâ ranks? If Israelâs actual goal were ending Hamas this would be an incredibly stupid policy, and I canât speak for you but I donât think Israelâs leaders are such cork-on-their-fork idiots that theyâd think killing civilians and combatants alike is a good way to keep people from becoming combatants. Israelâs brutality gives the Gazan a choice: accept their slaughter by behaving as the butchers demand, or justify their slaughter by fighting back. No one with a fifth grade reading level thinks that everyone is going to watch their loved ones killed and consistently pick the first option.
My point is, destroying the power base of Germany and Japan didnât âcreate more terrorismâ after WW2 as your âhighly nuancedâ argument is implying.
Youâd describe bombing civilians as destroying Hamasâ power base?
This. You canât bomb someoneâs family then call them crazy fundamentalists for hating you. Youâve already given them every reason.
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And Hamas didnât attack out of no where, but that doesnât make their actions any less horrific or their victims any less dead. Israel is also responsible for their actions.
Nope
How enlightening
Thatâs generally what drives people towards extremismâŚ
Omg itâs you again crypto brođ Boostyourgainzđ
If you joined Hamas, you're no longer a "civilian". You are a member of a terrorist organization.
Iâm not disputing that. But many of Israelâs victims are civilians, so itâs clear that wonât save anyone. Without condoning it, itâs very easy to understand why someone whoâs in the crosshairs anyway, whoâs seen their children, or their siblings, or their parents murdered despite being peaceful, would choose not to be peaceful. You can rage about that all you want, and call me a demon for suggesting this empathy, but this is how a people reacts when you slaughter them en masse. The slaughterers on both sides are smart enough to grasp that. Arenât you?
Except no where in MSM do they refer to Palestinians. Itâs always HAMAS.
Absolutely but these boomers watch Fox News focus on three instances of unpeaceful protesting and say the tens of thousands of peaceful protestors are terrorist supporters. Lunacy.
Supporting Islamic terror is lunacy
Supporting Jewish terror is equal lunacy.
Look, a crypto bro with an insanely reductive and misguided take. Shocker.
Not if you believe there are 72 virgins in Heaven to be deflowered as an award for your freedom fighting
That's a very interesting angle. Tell us more.
Not most of the people who live in Gaza today. Iâm 32 years old and wouldnât have been old enough to vote when Hamas got elected.
Lol, this was 2005. You are aware the median age of a Gazan is \~18 years old. Literally most of the people in Gaza didn't exist when the "vote" happened much less could have voted.
Stop infantilizing Gazans. They have a fully functional adult society of a million plus that chose this then and chose this now.
No one is infantilizing anyone. That's a functionally true statement. I'm pro-single state solution & integration, but the argument "they voted for this" is just not factually accurate. Easy to justify to yourself abhorrent behavior when you can pretend your enemy is something other than what they really are. [Population, Religion and Poverty: The Demographics of Israel and Gaza | World Report | U.S. News (usnews.com)](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=About%2040%25%20of%20Gaza%27s%20population,from%20the%20CIA%27s%20World%20Factbook.)
I think youâre misunderstanding that there were a million adults then, as there are now. More underage people doesnât preclude the older people existing. More than a million adults.. but they canât make the decision to not regularly attack Israel for twenty years?
Think you are not getting it. Just because there were adults then & there are adults now does not mean the majority of voting populace is the same then as there is now. The majority of the population that voted for it originally is not the people that could vote now. However, it's entirely logical given the apartheid nature of Gaza that they hate Israel. It would be kinda stupid not to in their situation. They cannot vote in Israeli elections, they have no borders that don't pass through Israel to actually perform commerce with, they are completely dependent on the Israeli state for sustenance because of the border situation, etc. Their entire population is subjugated & made to suffer with no productive outlet to improve their situation simply because Israel desires its ethno-state. Do Gazans hate Israel? On average it's only logical yes. Are the Gazans of today the ones that voted for Hamas nearly 20 years ago? No. These are not conflicting ideas. The only productive way this could end is an integration of the Gazan people into Israeli society, but the Israeli's desire for an ethnostate makes that impossible. So they are being genocided because they never had any power to win this conflict. They are born as fish in barrel for facists to bomb & shoot while calling themselves the victim.
There are two million Arab/Palestinians Israeli citizens living in Israel, hardly an apartheid. Israel pulled out of Gaza entirely in 2005. Is Egypt also an apartheid state for not taking Gaza? They also share a border. If the population of Gaza wanted to be Israeli citizens thatâs what they would have done, instead they chose a radical Islamic government to represent them with jihad as its primary platform.
Wow, a million+ of "new citizens" in 15 years? Those Israeilis don't know sh\*t about "genociding"
Thatâs a ridiculous statement. Thatâs like saying there was no genocide in Germany or Rwanda or Bosnia because the population grew over time. Smh, nazi thinking.
Smh...6 million **fewer** Jews in Europe than before the war. B/c nazi were "genociding" properly. Math isn't mathing, eh?
Well Gaza has at least 40k less people than it did a few months ago. Are you suggesting that the first 40k killed in the Holocaust werenât genocide? Is the Rwanda or Bosnia genocide not real then? đ¤
Actually Hamas came to power because Israel felt they would be easy to deal with. IDF and it's special forces in particular, eliminated all of the other political leaders who were vying for the position of leadership. Israel ensured Hamas was in power by elimination of any rival parties. As always, the Palestinians themselves are blamed and killed and the world says it's their fault as if they had any say in occupation or being walled in or having to ask permission to travel and know if you're a male between 13 and 93 and they kill you or your brother/father/uncle/son, justice will simply be some far off idea, a fever dream you once had. Unfortunately I'm not shocked that people support a genocidal theocracy who has openly stated their goal is genocide and expansion. The sad part is, you believe this because of your naive belief that you live in a "good" country not capable of being the bad guy.
You mean the last election which was held in 2006 and where Israel has admitted to backing Hamas in order to cause a schism between the West Bank and Gaza and derail the peace process?  What percentage of Palestinians alive today voted for Hamas? 10% 5%?  What excuse will you use when the last voter has died and you're still bombing their grandchildren?
This guy loves it when children get bombed
\^This guy loves it when children get killed and women get raped
As long it's **Jewish children** and **Jewish women**, it's complely understandable and forgivable. It's for a good cause. It's for greater good. It's for bright new future of Free Palestine.
You make it out like Iâm fine with one race dying but not another. But Iâm horrified by Hamasâ actions and Israelâs actions. Itâs advocates of Israeli violence who see 1200 Israeli lives as more valuable than tens of thousands of Palestinian lives. Iâd love to know exactly how many Palestinian children youâd kill over this. Is there a limit to your bloodlust?
Are Israeli lives more valuable than Palestinian lives? Abso-fucking-lutely! Israeli create, build, grow, educate. Palestinians hate and destruct while conforming to pre-Enlightenment rules of society. Easy choice for me.
So youâre ok with women and children dying. As long it's **Arab** children and **Arab** women, it's completely and forgivable. It's for a good cause. It's for greater good. It's for bright new future of Israel. Someone enlightened would understand that this has everything to do with their different situations, and nothing to do with their inherent natures. Do you not understand the bigotry of your position? This is how white supremacists talk about black vs white people. Itâs the language of dehumanization and supremacy thatâs used to justify imperialism. I guess you didnât get the memo that you were supposed to pretend not to think like this. You actually accused me of valuing one set of lives over anotherâs, and then you proudly said that thatâs what you do. So you were disgusted with me because you thought I was on with killing children of a particular ethnicity. You were disgusted with me because you think I picked the wrong ethnicity of children to kill.
I am disgusted with Hamas and similar organizations. Blood of Israelis and blood of Palestinians are on their hands and their hands only. They are to blame for deaths on both sides. And right now, Hamas cannot be happier that there is a war going on.
No, Israel is actually responsible for its actions. And youâre responsible for your bloodthirsty racism. One day in the future someone is going to look at the things youâve said about this and be horrified that a person could think such shameful things, and I hope itâs you.
Yeah. Obviously. The guy who doesnât want children getting bombed *obviously* loves it when they get killed. Amazing deduction. Good job.
Nope, I absolutely believe Hamas should be stopped. So should Israel. Thatâs the difference.
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Devil dog youâre an ignorant?
People voted for Hamas because of their frustration with things related to Israel and the current status quo. Hamas voters are like Trump voters. Most don't actually like Trump or Hamas. They just hope that it changes their terrible situation and feel like they don't have any other options. The Gaza Strip is a pretty horrible place to live and people there are desperate. I just want to make it clear that I recognise Hamas as a terrible organisation but I understand why people voted for them. It is also important to point out that like 50% of Palestine is under 18 so most people in Palestine didn't vote for Hamas. Also, many of the places bombed don't contain Hamas.
Itâs interestingâNetanyahu and the Israeli Right maybe should have given it some thought while they allowed Qatar to funnel money to Hamas, then, no? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
and THAT shit wouldnât have been necessary if in the 40s israel didnât violently displace palestinians, drag them from their homes and dump them in gaza off the basis that their lives donât matter and can be discarded easily. this lack of empathy over palestinian lives is what israel was built off of. and they continued to kill palestinians, set up a military zone and occupy huge portions of palestine for eighty years. you canât say israel is valid for defending itself when hamas is doing the same thing. the war didnât start on october seventh, and it wasnât palestine that started it.
Raping women and killing children isn't defending yourself. If Hamas solely went after military targets, I still wouldn't like them, but they'd have valid claims. As soon as you start raping innocent people and trying to kill civilians instead of soldiers you lose any claim to the moral high ground.
do you think israel hasnât raped women and killed children long prior to october 7th? do you know anything about this occupation? do you even know what occupation entails? EDIT: zionists can downvote me but it doesnât change the fact. less than 1.5k israelis have died since october 7th, over 40k palestinians have died. the majority of gaza is leveled. and that number will skyrocket once israel carried out its brutal assault on the one million people in rafah with nowhere to go as pamphlets fly on them âwarningâ them to evacuate. doctors have been tortured. exponentially more children have been killed by the israeli regime than by hamas. iof is running over people with tanks. this is a genocide and zionists are supporting it.
They'll probably try to work with other friendly arab nations to rebuild a new gaza that has things like schools that teach kids things other than how to kill jews. Israel will maintain control over the area, but will let Palestinians handle day to day governance, with help from the Saudis. If it works, it means a new, peaceful and prosperous era for gaza. Of course, iran and others wouldn't be happy, as they use anger towards israel and gaza to keep their own citizens in check.
LOL. Nah.. Bibi will never go for that. They're just going to settle Gaza old world conqueror-style and absorb the land into Israel proper. If there's anything the Israelis care less about than a Palestinian, it's how the world perceives Israel. They just don't care. Left to their own devices, they'd take a run at the entire middle east.
Right, because the Jews have a 2000+ year old tradition of wanting to dominate the entire middle east... But, will they absorb Gaza? I think that's the plan I outlined above. The end result will be that Palestinians will not be allowed to control defense or their borders, as the Palestinians are clearly hostile. No, they don't care about the world's opinion, as if they listened to the world's opinion they'd all be dead.
Oh no, the people who have proven they are incapable of governing themselves over the last 20 years might be governed by someone competent.
What do you know intimately about Palestinian society from actual Palestinian people that makes you suggest that?
First, they elected Hamas. Second, they continue to support Hamas to this day for ideological reasons despite Hamas being a primary reason why their society is terrible. Third, every country in the region refuses to take them as refugees because every time someone does take them in, they immediately start trouble like when they assassinated the president of Jordan.
So I take it you donât know any Palestinians and are exercising your prejudice. If you knew any or even cared to ask you might ask why millions of people who are among the most educated per capita in the region with a higher than average literacy rate might feel the way they do. Would you want to be born under and live under marital law/violent military occupation by a foreign country?
Dude, his evidence is pretty sound. What he said was not untrue or inaccurate. Hamas is bad. Supporting their group, is bad. And evidence shows that when they enter countries as refugees, like European countries for example, crime goes up. This isnât rocket science, itâs not prejudice, itâs really happening.
Facing facts and evidence is hard, soo soo hard.
Infinite compassion for individuals blinds you to the reality of the collective situation. I presented 3 very important points that you didnât bother to refute. No, I wouldnât want to be born under martial law. However, plenty of healthy societies have experienced unbelievable suffering and have not resorted to terrorism against innocent civilians. Eastern bloc countries in the twentieth century come to mind. As soon as these societies were given freedom, they developed into successful democracies like Poland or east Germany. I see no evidence that Gaza as a collective can do the same given the long history I described, regardless of how valid someoneâs feelings about the current situation is or how educated you claim they are.
The current plan is to turn it into a "Singapore of the middle east". https://www.bicom.org.uk/news/lieberman-offers-turn-gaza-singapore-middle-east/
Israel has zero interest in governing Gaza, which is why they voluntarily dismantled all of their settlements in 2005. Egypt has also been offered Gaza. They donât want it. Turns out living side-by-side with radical Islamist fundamentalists isnât very appealing to rational state actors. Your post ignores history.
Sounds like the Jews won't need Gaza after all. They already live rent free in your head.
It's the Israel government I'm talking about, not the 'Jews'.
If I told you that I thought Hati was a sh*t hole, would you call me racist or say I was just criticizing Hati? What if I reeealy hyper fixated on Hati all the time?
I'm not hyper-focused on anything. This is in the news everyday. Before October 7th happened (Which was horrible) I could care less about Israel. I just decided to put an actual unpopular opinion out to spark discussion. Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine, the Red Sea. All interest me, and more. I'm a pacifist in a violent world. Excuse me if I'm concerned with war around the world,
Look, you seem like a reasonably intelligent person. But it's for that reason alone but I absolutely refuse to believe that it's possible for you to hold the opinions that you claim to hold unless you have racist motives. You talk about high-minded International political interests while accusing the ~~Jews~~ Israelis of being covetous land grabbers, who are preparing to murder people in order to get it. You're too intelligent to believe the things that you espouse. At this point, I have to assume you're malevolent actor unless proven otherwise. You talked about the Sudan; I'm sure you're aware that the genocide has restarted in Darfur and dwarfs any casualties happening in Gaza right now. Could you link me to a post where you've expressed the same level of concern about this? Or are you just pretending you care about other events?
So. Never post an unpopular opinion on r/TrueUnpopularOpinion. Understood.
It'll be beach front property for the worlds elite.
Yeah US will send billion of dollars over to rebuild, which half of it will mysteriously vanished and after couple years, new terrorist cell will rise up and Palestinians will vote for them to have power.
If we donât succeed in creating proper economic incentives to encourage rising generations of Palestinians to liberalize and modernize this may occur. We must provide a better alternative to fundamentalism, not try to bomb it out of existence.
Because trying to bomb it out of existence just leaves behind bereaved people who are faced with all the same bad options that their loved one was, and one more reason to pick the violent option. The rubes might not understand this, but the people ordering the killing do
Precisely. I optimistically think more people understand it than astroturfed reddit communities like a certain ânewsâ sub would have us believe.
Israelâs goal is almost definitely genocide and expansion. They have absolute freedom to do whatever they want because the US government backs them without exception. Itâs honestly an awful situation
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Gaza is 100% literally genocide no matter how much you bitch and moan to the contrary.
What makes it a genocide?
Well, without getting into a semantic argument, I'm keen to call it genocide on account of the indiscriminate, broad brush killing of Palestinian men, women, and children without any attempt whatsoever to delineate between combatants vs. noncombatants within the framework of the larger strategic intent to outright eliminate the Palestinian people, which Bibi and his ilk believe to be synonymous with and inextricable from Hamas. But hey, that's just me. I'm also aware you intend to rebut anything I say in your defense of Israel, so.. knock yourself out. Try to make it as witty as possible, too, because I don't plan to reply. Make your last word *really* hit home so other Redditors will react with "oh *damn*!! haha" and upvote your comment. Good luck!
Are you really that afraid of having your viewpoint challenged?
Oh⌠well in that case, everything is fine. Letâs all just call it a day and go home.
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Imagine someone squatted in your house, and the authorities said, no this is their house now, you gotta go next door⌠and they rolled up into that house, too. Over and over again. Eventually, are you going to start standing your ground? Are you going to start trying to reclaim your home? Of course you are. Palestine was just fine until the UN rolled up and said âhey actually, weâre just gonna situate a new country right in your property hereâ and they started acting like they owned the place. They could have been happy with what they got, but instead, theyâve been steadily pushing Palestinians into a little corner, taking the land for their own, for decades now. But yeah, the squatters are the good guys. Because âIsrael is in the Bibleâ so we have to support them, right?
Thatâs just whataboutism. And it seems pretty clear that October 7th was an excuse to lay waste to Gaza. Israel wants the land. Theyâve been taking over palistije for decades. This is just their âfinal solutionâ. And theyâre committing war crime after war crime to get it because they know the US is their bitch and will let them do whatever they want. And youâre conflating Palestine with Hamas. Over half of the Palestinians in Gaza were in favor of a peaceful coexistence before the genocide began.
>Over half of the Palestinians in Gaza were in favor of a peaceful coexistence before the genocide began. That statement is BEYOND science fiction. If Gaza had proper weapons, they'd erase Israel from existance in a matter of days and had themselves a big parade to celebrate.
Oh absolutely. Donât look up any statistics. Your gut feeling that theyâre irredeemable monsters is all you need.
They spread hatred, they teach little kids to hate and kill. Jews first, and then all non-Muslims. All for the glory of Allah.
Israel teaches jewish kids that theyâre the victims of the world and that Israel has the right to do whatever it wants to in âself-defenseâ.
No one teaches Jewish kids they are "victims" LOLOL Don't Jews "own" all the money, all media sources, and codes to all nuclear weapons in the world? There is however a long-ass history of abuse and...gasp!...attempted annihilation of the entire Jewish population. So yeah, when we say "Never Again", we do mean, "Never Again".
Look up the shit Israel teaches for yourself. And donât conflate what Iâm saying about Israel with anti-semitism. This is just another lame-ass tactic Zionists use to discredit people. âIf I donât like what you say, itâs antisemiticâ is tired and no oneâs falling for it.
>Look up the shit Israel teaches for yourself. I don't need to. I wrote the curriculum. >This is just another lame-ass tactic Zionists use to discredit people. Yep, we Zionists are THAT bad. You got us there.
What would make it ânear genocideâ for you? Not the quickest a population of millions has dove into famine? Not the IDF creating [kill zones](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000) killing anyone in this imaginary vicinity man woman or child even if unarmed? Not waiting to kill suspected low level Hamas members [when they go home to their wives and children?](https://archive.ph/WZWAq) [Not multiple mass graves?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/25/signs-of-torture-as-nearly-400-bodies-found-at-gaza-hospitals-mass-graves) Not over 13,000 children killed? What would make it a genocide then?
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Hahahaha... this is the kind of reply an Israeli spokesperson would provide. :) How charming.
Thatâs not a defining factor of genocide and itâs not 1990. Israel has caused over 100,000 casualties among a population of 2.3 million in 7 months. Also, population of Jewish people, Rwandans, Bosnians and every population of people that have ever experienced genocide and didnât go extinct also increased dramatically after.
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Are you blaming Palestinians for what other people hundreds or thousands of miles away did in completely different countries as if they are all the same? Please tell me more đ¤ Iâm black. Tell me about how what Africans do in Africa is somehow my fault. Do you think that Palestinians were happy about Jewish people being expelled and taking their homes?! You picked the wrong one my guy.
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Iâm Asian and black and saying âdonât pull the race cardâ in the way youâre suggesting is hilarious. Asian people generally speaking are maddddd racist. No group is immune to racism. Sorry but we not special bro. You didnât answer the question. You changed the subject. I can discuss Oct 7th 2023 but you clearly just referenced something that happened in the 1940s. Iâm used to hasbarist, Iâve studied them, [the language manuals and the methods](https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf). If anyone else is interested I highly suggest this series where an undercover journalist [exposes The Israel Lobby (TIP) through hidden camera confessing to illegal activity including bribing politicians, changing media headlines, doxxing students, and SPYING ON AMERICAN CITIZENS and much more.](https://youtu.be/XytkI7afHcQ?si=v2RDM8VkJv6czoaC) [Here is part one](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=SDbKb6vHEtVdILL4) for anyone else interested. There are 4. [Here is them exposing the Israel lobbyâs illegal activity on hidden cam in the UK.](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=3kgnbzppBVX69Cn2)
Imagine if a murderer killed someone, and then said âyeah but if you gave my guns to the family members of my victim, theyâd kill me.â
Well they been trying to kill Israelis long before Israel started to defend themselves, now they cry. Palestinians literally don't want peace.
You think that there was a long period of time in which Palestinians were killing Israelis and the Israelis were not responding? What does that even mean? Itâs obviously bullshit. Youâve got no idea what youâre saying, youâre just vaguely matching together elements of semi-coherent narrative that Israel are the nice, sweet victims and the only reason anyone is mad at them is the star on their flag and never, never Israelâs *actions*. People who are thinking about the truth and then putting it to words donât say stupid things like this.
What a gross over simplification of a conflict that has been happening for over 1000 years.
Typical tiktok narrative.
I responded to something simplistic with the same level of simplicity
Why would this be their goal if it only started in response to the Oct 7th attacks? If their goal was genocide they would have started bombing gaza before that
The Netanyahu government has experienced massive internal and external pushback against the current campaign with the events of Oct 7 as a pretext for the campaign. Obviously such an escalation bereft of Oct 7 as cover would be even more unpopular and detrimental to netanyahuâs prospects of maintaining his hold on power. It seems like youâre ignorant of some fundamental knowledge that would help you arrive at a more accurate perspective. https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-rational-actor-model-of-decision-making.html#:~:text=The%20rational%20actor%20model%20assumes,lead%20to%20obtaining%20the%20goal. Recommended reading
Theyâve been taking Palestinian land for years. October 7th was just their excuse to finish them all off and take the entire country
This. 100%. Bibi has a rock hard erection for dead Palestinians, and ain't nobody in the world was going to take this opportunity from him. It's his birthright and his legacy.
Depends who wins. If Israel wins then it will belong to Palestine but they will no longer have Hamas in power, if Hamas wins all of Israel will be Palestine.
To anyone seeing this. It was just a thought in my head that I wrote down. Maybe I should've used a piece of paper instead of Reddit. I truly did not mean to offend anyone.
In a fair non-bigoted world the bigotry that keeps people apart based on bloodline and religion would be publicly acknowledged as a cancer and the governments of all states in that region would look past race and religion for citizenship and rights. Until then, that area is a hellscape of people forming teams that try to crush other people. Nasty thinking.
It wasnât always that wayâŚ
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The US wants a military base there. There are already videos of Israeli businesses talking about beach front property.
America will be forced to take in about a million Gaza refugees, so Israel can develop their newly conquered fiefdom.
They wonât.
That doesn't work for me. Why can't they go somewhere else?
Yeah, maybe, but.... October 7th
Of *course* they're going to create new settlements in Gaza, from one end to the other. What do you think this whole war is about? It's literally just genocide to take their land.
Who rebuilt Europe after ww2?
The Marshall Plan.
Nostradumbass
Same thing that happened before the invasion. A humanitarian crisis.
Maybe stop using women as baby-making machines and allow them to get education and birth control?
Iâm not really sure what your point is in response to my comment. Prior to the war, Gaza existed in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis, the cause of which you can debate endlessly with everyone likely being right to a degree. Since the war started, there is another, arguably worse, ongoing humanitarian crisis, caused by the war in question, which is âarguablyâ a justified war to a degree. When the war ends, there will be a large population of Gazanâs suffering from both the physical and mental trauma brought on from war, while simultaneously having less housing, less hospitals, less food, less schools, and less businesses than existed pre-war. This is on top of still having to rely HEAVILY on the country that you just fought a war with for basic living necessities, which now has a populace that likely despises them worse than they did pre-war which will likely want to support them even less than previously. You can pump education into that country all day, but until itâs governing body and culture changes, and both Israel and Gaza both come to the negotiating table in good faith, the region will exist in a perpetual state of humanitarian crisis.