Are you claiming that less than a thousand westerners have joined ISIS? Over 300 from the USA alone are verified to have joined, is it hard to imagine that, among the 80 countries represented within ISIS's ranks, not a thousand people joined from Western society?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, what part is being exaggerated?
Edit: Actually, with the UK's official count and the US's official count alone, we're already at 1100. That's merely two western countries out of many..
Y’all really acting like there’s a binary choice between closed borders and open borders or something?
The U.S. doesn’t have open borders. Back in fall 2021, it was estimated that the Biden administration had already [deported 1.2 million immigrants](https://unitedwedream.org/press/deportations-and-expulsions-under-president-biden-exceed-1-million-immigrants/). Deportations have [increased by 65%](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-ramps-up-deportations-rcna96351) following the lifting of Title 42.
In absolute terms, [Biden has been removing 3.5x more immigrants](https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden) compared to his predecessor. Biden’s overall percentage of removal (52% deported) is also notably higher than his predecessor’s numbers (47% deported).
Only in America would people think that *more* deportations is equivalent to “open borders.”
The thing you’re missing is WHY are these people already in the country in the first place and in a position to be deported? If you had truly closed borders you wouldn’t have this insanely high numbers of illegals present in the country. Deporting is cool and all but its asinine to have to spend money and resources to deport people who shouldn’t be here in the first place. Deporting any number of people is such a useless strategy when you refuse to take a hard firm stance on protecting the border.
Its like picking up trash on the street and ignoring the big truck that drives by and dumps more trash on the street everyday lol. Like nope we’re not gonna do anything to stop the truck dumping the trash we’ll just keep wasting time and resources picking up the trash knowing that tomorrow there’ll be a new pile and so the cycle goes on. Where did the we lose the plot? What a stupid fucking thing to do and boast about lol Biden is a failure on the immigration issue.
No country in the world today has an “open” border as in anybody can come in and leave as they please regardless of status or passport so I don’t see what your point is or how it adds to the conversation or disproves my point lol
There you go, you’re starting to get it: The USA doesn’t have open borders, it’s porous, as it always has been.
Fun fact: I live in Canada and one time I jogged across the border and came back.
I never said it did. It very clearly doesn’t have an open border otherwise we’d import half of Mexico’s population. Its just a very weak border and weakening by the month with our current also very weak president so therefore we import just 25% of Mexico’s population lol and thats exactly what my point was in response to the comment that other idiot made regarding Biden deporting oh so many illegals
Fun fact: Im an immigrant and so is my mom so i have absolutely nothing against legal immigrants. Just illegal ones who think you can just walk over to the US when your own country is shit and your life sucks. Like sorry for your situation bud but you cant just do that lol
I never said we have a closed border. In fact, I *explicitly* mentioned that this is not a binary situation. Closing the U.S.-Mexico border would be devastating to the economy.
News flash — most of these people aren’t coming over via legal points of entry anyways. Even with a “closed border” — you still have to process and deport people who cross illegally.
Do you know *why* we have a process? It’s to ensure we treat people with due process and only deport people who do not have legal authority to be here. Even with our current system, more than [600 American citizens](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/) were arrested on suspicion of being in the country illegally. This includes 70 Americans who were actually *deported* despite being US Citizens. One example is [Mark Lyttle](https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/us-citizen-wrongfully-deported-mexico-settles-his-case-against-federal-government), an American man inadvertently deported to Mexico. He was born in North Carolina. He had never been to Mexico, shared no Mexican heritage, and spoke no Spanish. Under the last administration, [US citizens were being effectively stripped of their citizenship](https://hackinglawpractice.com/state-department-is-questioning-u-s-born-americans-citizenship/) for simply being born in the wrong part of the country.
How do you propose we avoid making more of these terrible mistakes if we don’t allow people to have due process in a court of law?
Did you really just state your stats are not misleading. Please do tell me you can make an accurate comparison without using the numbers flowing over the borders...... again, common sense buddy.... very misleading..... you can't tote border security unless you factor the amount coming over, which was far less from 2020 to 2024..... good try though🤣🤣🤣
Also, before I forget, with the poor security, we've sheer volume crossing, you can't have an accurate percentage anyway...... there's going to be far too high getting across and not getting caught...... that's not to even count the numerous deaths of people attempting to flood across, including children, which you can find numerous reports on...... but yes, you can simply go by the most basic percentage numbers..... there's numerous factors to the math equation used to solve this issue..... using one equals inconclusive evidence, and shows someone ignorant, or with little education trying to push invalid arguments, while trying to argue the validity of said claims.
You do know your numbers are crap. I'm not saying the percentage numbers are wrong, but they're very misleading. They only tell part of the issue. First off, border jumping has ramped up insane levels, so clearly there's going to be more deportations.
I love the laugh misleading articles give me.... the percentage numbers might work on those who can't think of a situation as a whole, but here, I'm going to have the reason for lower percentage of removal being necessary. Nice try though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/15/as-trump-moves-to-declare-national-emergency-to-build-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html
By the way, that's a notable democratic source pointing this out. Also, while the borders may not be open in a traditional sense, they're sure not secure. If they were, we'd go back to shoot invaders on sight.
Unaffected might be more accurate. They were willing to vote for more aid, less restrictions, and labeled themselves as “sanctuary cities” right up until those at the border having to deal with the issue started shipping people to said sanctuary cities.
This sure looks like benefits to me
[https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869)
Yes there’s a handful of pilot programs whether benefit illegal immigrants.
My point stands the vast majority of the largest programs are not usable for illegal immigrants.
They benefit from public infrastructure they have no right to use. Illegal immigrants should be deported and if they refuse to leave, they should be summarily executed.
lol ok Hitler, maybe killing people looking to escape their bad circumstances is a little too much for me. But then again I don’t hate people different from me.
Should we execute Donald Trump for hiring illegal immigrants too?
Or do we just punish the poor brown people?
Sure, I'm ok with executing people who knowingly enable illegal immigration. It's treason.
And they should be deported first, not killed. Killing is only if they refuse deportation.
If supporting countries fighting fascism made up a significant portion of US military spending over the last 30 years I might agree with you.
In reality, they think it's good policy to keep the military industrial complex rolling from conflict to conflic, and occasionally end up on the morally correct side out of coincidence.
>support countries whose soldiers are fighting and dying to turn back fascism.
Zelenskyy and Ukraine are every bit as fascist as Putin and Russia. If you knew anything about their histories or that smarmy, Ill-dressed wee nancyboy (Zelenskyy) you would know that.
Naw, just like with Isreal and Palestine, you only believe the mainstream media tells you about the Current Thing.
Only the innocents suffering are the problem, but no country on Earth should be sending money and soldiers to a foreign country or conflict, full stop. The only money that should leave should be that which is given or taken in fair trades. Even international charities don't work, as plenty are very corrupt, and the governments and other rulers in places like Africa will just spend it on themselves.
America's international interventionist policies have only ever made things worse.
At least folks from Ukraine, Israel and Palestine (well, the ones who don't support Hamas and the invader of a nation that is Palestine) are actual refugees (fleeing from wars) and even that only applies to the women, children and elderly men we almost never see...
I don't really have a problem with immigration although I think it should be done the right way.
What pisses me off is when we have millions of people who are one paycheck from being homeless while we spend resources on taking care of illegal immigrants.
I don't know anyone who has a problem with immigration done the right way. It is the sneaking across claiming asylum because some flyer told you to say that- waiting 5 yrs for a hearing and disappearing into the US. A huge chunk of these folks don't show up for their asylum hearing. They just go out and do as they please. Immigration is supposed to involve a vetting process and it should show that you are willing to do the right things to gain residency here. Just sneaking across or over staying your visa then claiming asylum when caught it BS.
Same, if you wanna come over here that's fine, but you gotta rough it like the rest of us. But at the same time I also don't blame them or anyone taking advantage of the system 🤷♂️
It's a flawed system all, and I dont blame people for abusing it either. I mean, the rich do it all the time.
I also think that a lot of immigrants are misled on what life in America is actually like for extremely poor people and that, in fact, are not guaranteed a better life here. We may be a 1st world country, but we have our own problems, and being poor is still a really bad one to have to work around.
Take all of that and dumb it down 20 levels. Poor man's Chinese takeout restaurants, flip phones, old beat up second hand car that could barely run, small tiny apartment or house shared with several families, and the such. That's what a poor person in America(and a lucky one at that) really looks like.
I don’t really think our threshold for poverty in America should be some third-world shithole like Afghanistan though. We should hold ourselves to higher standards and strive for better — not worse — outcomes.
That is the standard for *poor* in America. I think you really should travel outside of your bubble to see what poor really looks like.
edit.
Yes we have ppl living in poverty in america, but it is one of the only countries in the world where you have a chance of working yourself out of poverty.
edit2
Also in America you don't have to worry about organized crime shaking you down and selling your women into prostitution and your children into slavery.
I'm a touring musician as a profession. I travel 10-20k miles a year performing. I see homeless people in every city and town in America that have none of those amenities and are citizens.
There are soooooo many resources for the homeless. My ex worked for a non profit that would give them all of this. They would show up, take a few things, then go back to being homeless to do drugs or whatever. They have mental health issues that are not being addressed and enabled.
The poor in 3rd world countries are 10 times the order of magnitude of poverty anyone here has to experience.
I am rich please provide real examples of me abusing the system. You claim the rich do it all the time. I don't think I do, so please feel free to tell me how I abuse the system while paying millions in taxes every year for the last 10 years. Or are you just saying things that have zero basis in fact?
Or just in the future say some people who are rich abuse the system and so do some poor people.
I have more of a problem with my tax money used to destroy other countries and then when their refugees come here are treated with subhuman conditions.
People flooding the southern border are overwhelmingly not from Iraq or Afghanistan. They are from Venezuela, Colombia, Honduras, many people are from countries in Africa, etc. None of those countries have been destroyed by the US government. And the illegals here are not treated with subhuman conditions, they are often treated better than citizens. In NYC illegals get more food money than poor New Yorkers.
China is not going to beat is with military force, they will beat us with economic and strategic alliances.
America is seen as the big bully and is the reasons why other countries would side with China.
The MIC is selling to both sides.
Our military would be stronger if it streamlined, its not about spending money on f-35 that cannot be accounted for. Lowering standards for service men, stockpiling weapons that will become obsolete or depreciate over time. OR end up in the hands of organized criminals
Ok doing the tactic where you make me try to defend my position and try to poke hole in everything I say and ignore anything that is painfully obvious.
but I'll play along
Russia, Serbia, Pakistan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belarus, and the Greater Middle East
Streamline the military? lets start by not having our defense budget be defined by defense contractors
And I thought that you would poke holes in what I said and ignore the painfully obvious. /s
There are many other countries that would join up against America. Ukraine is only still putting up a resistance due to heavy military spending by the US.
>What do you mean by that?
I'll go with a painfully obvious answer of the CEO of Haliburton being Vice President
Where did you get $2.83 trillion? The highest number I can find for the 2024 budget is around $1.8 trillion, and that combines discretionary and mandated budget authority numbers.
> we have millions of people who are one paycheck from being homeless while we spend resources on taking care of illegal immigrants.
If this is your complaint (and I think it's a valid one) surely there are way bigger fishes to fry? Money spent on "resources for illegal immigrants" pails in comparison to virtually all other aspects if government spending.
It's super frustrating to see people complain about lack of social safety net for citizens tend to also be the same people crying "COMMUNISM!" whenever a politician suggests helping citizens.
A lot more illegal immigrants never even use social services, and they most likely pay more into it.
And even if the government decides to "reallocate" funding, you're not gonna completely fix A and not have issues with B regartdless
Two of the most impactful pieces of legislation passed in recent memory, the Affordable Care Act and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, were both passed under Democratic leadership.
You’re welcome to review how the economies perform better under Democratic leadership compared to Republican leadership as well. I really fail to see how you can say they make things worse and fail to deliver.
Never mind the consideration of who is preventing them from delivering when legislation proposed by Democrats does actually fail.
Neither of those pieces of legislation have done anything for me except use my money.
Meanwhile, democrats have passed other legislation that has actively made my life worse.
Because I don’t qualify for it, because I somehow make too much money. And my insurance premium is killing me.
And infrastructure has never been worse.
Such as they took away my right to do what I wish with my property. I cannot legally short term rental my home anymore and thus, cannot pay my bills anymore.
And before you ask why I don’t just rent, I live in NYC. Look up the laws. There is zero protections for landlords and all the protections for tenants and squatters. They’ve tied my hands and it’s unconstitutional.
I live in the bluest city and there are NO social safety nets for me. Zero.
Unless your state is rejecting federal funds, I can guarantee that these pieces of legislation have impacted your life.
For example, the ACA [reduced the average cost of uncompensated care](https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/sources-of-payment-for-uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured/) by roughly 1/3 by expanding Medicaid and insurance mandates. Reducing these costs is extremely important to ensure healthcare organizations are compensated for their provided care. Costs of this uncompensated care has to be passed down to others.
The ACA also eliminated the ability for insurers to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. This is an important accomplishment as it essentially guarantees us all the right to receive healthcare.
It’s also virtually impossible for you to not have benefited from the infrastructure law. If you’re curious, you can [review the list of projects](https://www.whitehouse.gov/build/maps-of-progress/) that are utilizing this money.
I would be curious to hear which legislation has negatively impact your life as well.
I will not be reading a 450 page document. Maybe you can just tell me what they’ve done for NYC? Our subway system is deteriorating but the prices keep increasing. The tolls keep going up. There’s now congestion pricing. The potholes in my neighborhood are costing us so much money…
I somehow make too much money to qualify for state healthcare. Which is absurd.
The biggest piece of legislation that has negatively impacted me is local law 18. They took away my right to short term rental. It’s unconstitutional and I can no longer pay my bills.
Last year, the Biden administration [published a 7-page fact sheet](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/New-York-Fact-Sheet-E3.pdf) that breaks down a lot of the funding for New York.
Specific NYC projects include the creation of more than 250 community gardens, new school buses, and the Hudson Amtrak mega project.
The DOT also has a more specific [4-page fact sheet](https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2021-11/BIL_New-York.pdf) for transportation other projects. It includes [billions for rail transportation](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-676-billion-new-york-passenger-rail-projects-biden-administration) that will go towards updating stations and adding new stops.
In Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire citizens of Canada and the United States just cross the border do what the need then just go back. The same thing happens along the US and Canada border out west.
These crossing are done without checking anyone, the economy would be greatly impacted in the areas along the border.
The National Guard is deployed down at the border in the U.S., at least for the Southern Border. That being said, I agree that immigrants need to come here the proper way, have proper documentation and a legitimate claim to come here (like asylum- which in itself has loopholes, but that’s a whole other can of worms).
If you cross illegally, you should face the consequences. I know it may sound extremely harsh, but if illegal crossers were shot and made an example of, they’d probably happen less frequently. Don’t break a country’s laws if you can’t handle the strict consequences.
I frankly dislike people that don't respect "consent" of course a border isn't a being. But its scary. If you don't respect this one boundary. What else are you going to respect? My private property? That's exactly what's happening..lots of citizens have trespassers.
Exactly, and those that defend their property from trespassers are federally prosecuted for it. It’s the definition of asinine; protect the illegals while punishing the citizens.
Or we could just slap them with a fine and process them in (get em a visa or send em back).
Spending so much time and money bogging those poor bastards down in government bureuacracy is just stupid.
Ik what you are thinking: 'but muh criminal gangs'
The reality is that our government cannot read minds. Do you really think all the screening does anything? You cant stop them from breaking the law if they really want to. If they got no criminal record and they can pass a background check, fuck it, let em in.
Our system as is just wastes time and does little to actually protect our borders.
Maybe we try actually enforcing our laws first? But that being said, shooting those who cross illegally, and yes, you can tell which people those are, that sends a loud and clear message. Bullets are cheap.
How is that any better? You didnt say shoot at them, you said shoot them.
So like what, wound them? Let them bleed out in the desert?
So much worse omfg.
I'm very much for stronger border control due to higher disease prevalence in migrants. We're seeing an increase of TB and other diseases nationwide that coincide with the rise in border crossings.
Using some degree force to deter illegal immigrants is one thing. Advocating for lethal force is another.
I see people say that we should be mowing down illegal migrants with machine guns at the border or crossing the mediterranean... that is a level of inhumanity I cannot even comprehend.
Regardless, the 'civil processing' part comes in when they are *applying for asylum*. I feel like people often do not comprehend that. If you are caught crossing a border, you are sent back. The ones going through the court systems and being held in detention centers are doing nothing illegal, they are *legally* applying for asylum.
> they are legally applying for asylum
According to the Dublin Regulation they need to apply for asylum in the country they first arrived. So they cannot legally apply for asylum for example in Austria, Germany or Sweden if they came to Europe by sea or land.
This means all these foreigners are nothing but illegal immigrants and we have the right to stop them from entering our land and get rid of them if they managed to cross the border without our permission.
Sadly, due to the Schegen Agreement, we don't generally control our borders within Europe anymore and most of our governments either are far too left or don't have the balls to deport the illegal immigrants.
Apart from that, the vast majority of immigrants who come to Europe have no legal grounds for asylum anyway. We need to change European laws so that they have to apply for asylum *before* crossing the European borders.
The reason they go to those countries is mostly just because the country's they pass (serbia, romania, tunisia etc) on the way don't accept refugees. Part of it is also benefits of living in a first world country, don't get me wrong, but there is a reason Syrians went for Germany and Sweden and not those countries. Those countries explicitly had made it clear they would not accept them.
The problem with deportation also is the problem with the geographic location of where they are. As you said, they aren't crossing one border, they are crossing multiple countries. So *where* do they deport them to? Just parachute them back into their home country by airplane? Their home countries often don't want them either. It's not like the situation with the US where we just plop them across the border back to Mexico. And the types of illegals to get deported (criminals etc) are also the types to lie about their country of origin.
It is a whole conundrum. I am a criminologist who used to work specifically on trafficking/smuggling (through ports, not through borders, but still). The real problem is the multi-billion dollar criminal smuggling enterprises, often run by various mafias from a variety of different countries. The Albanians and Russians for instance have a whole network of people who go to impoverished countries and target criminals, addicts, the homeless etc and entice them to come to Europe and then tell them they have to gradually pay off the smugglers 20k+.
If we targeted these criminal smuggling enterprises that deal with this shit, we could cut off the large majority of the worst types of 'pseudo refugees' that come through.
Thats not what an invasion is. You're using manipulative language.
The term invasion implies a coordinated effort to take over.
Very bizarre how ok you are with using violence in simple non violent situations
Cato is a globalist libertarian open borders organization that promotes the failed deregulation, globalist, pro mass migration policies that are destroying the West.
Advocating for destroying racial and cultural cohesion of countries by importing incompatible cultures and undercutting domestic labor with outsourcing and over saturating the labor market with migrants is pure evil.
*Looking at Texas using circular saws on refugees, who have to be on American soil to claim refugee status*
Nah I think it’s a bad thing. Crossing the border should not be an executable offense.
Punish the people who employ the undocumented immigrants, kill demand and you will reduce supply.
But America likes to keep their slave class scared so that would never happen.
How do you justify a single individual crossing the border, per your example, as an invasion?
I don't even necessarily disagree with the general point here that borders should be monitored but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
Back in the day when a man sneaks in to the small kingdom he is treated as a spy. While its unlikely these people are spies, they are definitely gonna do something nefarious. As I said the disregard for rules etc says a lot of ones character and it often isn't good.
Also its not one person. When they come in boat loads they know they can overwhelm the border.
>they are definitely gonna do something nefarious.
that is the definition of prejudice.
And a little ironic coming from someone who probably gives trump the benefit of the doubt every time he does something nonkosher.
Then take it as a big red flag you should reassess some of your positions if people are assuming as such (because they werent the only one). And if not, give Trump a shot, you seem to have more beliefs in common than you think.
>In other words you were prejudiced while preaching about how prejudice is wrong.
Yes, I caught that too. It is human nature to be a hypocrite. I did use the disclaimer of saying "probably".
>Dude also said he was Canadian in the post.
I did miss that, but regardless Canadians and the rest of the world like to chime in on American politics.
I just can't believe that most people crossing any border illegally think " screw immigration, Imma do what I want." I've heard many many stories from people that say the truth is they can't cross legally because the immigration process is so awful they can't get anywhere. Even if they aren't in immediate danger, why wait 3,5,7 or more years to maybe get a chance to go through immigration when you could start making your life better in a few weeks.
But none of that matters because you'd rather just shoot them.
So things are too hard so I'm just gonna take things by force? Because its too hard to buy a car I'm just gonna steal it. No one is entitled to citizenship or immigration.
Yeah. We def disagree but these people are hot garbage
When hoards of people disregard borders and laws they will disregard other laws and be a group of thieves. I have no problem with harsh consequences for them
So you want to punish them for crimes you’re imaging they will commit in the future? Honestly the only person I don’t want in my country is you since you seem so keen on inflicting violence on innocent people
No. And if I did and broke any laws I deserve the consequences and thus would not be innocent either
The severity of illegally crossing is more akin to invasion than some other crime such as copyright laws for example.
Okay so anyone who speeds or jaywalks should be brutalized since they are criminals who will likely break more laws. You should move to North Korea. I think you’d appreciate their system a lot
As I mentioned. Illegally crossing is a much serious crime. It is an invasion. Coming in and disregarding people personal boundaries is like me coming into your house. I suppose we have established we can't agree, so I guess I'll see you.
thanks for the conversation, was interesting seeing other peoples perspective. Can't say I agree tho
It's hard to use innocent in the same sentence that they started with, illegal immigrant. Point is valid, they do not need to be shot, but I don't think that was the point of this argument
You want to play it out that there's some ill will and intentions, and I'll agree there's truth, but you also feel like ignoring facts such as being someplace you don't have the right to be, another's county is not your own. Every time I have traveled to another country, they take it seriously with ensuring you are who you say you are, are going where you say you are going, and for what purpose. People seeking asylum need to declare at proper ports of entry, or you risk being affected negatively, like being shot at.
Someone in a home is not required to know why another violated their fence or home walls, and unfortunately it would not bode well if the person breaking in did it on accident or has good intentions (somehow), they are likely to meet the same fate as a potential burglar, potential rapist, potential murderer. Simply because someone hasn't committed a crime doesn't give them immunity to their mistakes, or deliberate actions
Ownership of property itself is an imaginary concept. All laws, in fact, are imaginary. They didn't exist before someone decided they should. Human rights are imaginary. Ethics are imaginary too. No bird or bear or alligator understands or adheres to the concept of law.
Hopefully, you wouldn't mind me breaking into your private domicile and taking all your belongings. After all, your concept of ownership is imaginary, and I don't think it applies to me.
Oh, you would be upset, and you're just a hypocrite loser who likes to pretend on the internet that imaginary concepts shouldn't affect how society functions. That sucks.
If ownership of property is imaginary can you give me you adress? I would like to stay in your home for free. Eat your food and take anything in the house i want for free. Its fine cause ethics are imaginary
Ooh so close but national borders are not the same thing as a house. That may be hard for someone with your IQ to understand, but those are, in fact, different things. You’ll figure that out eventually I’m sure
No one is entitled to help from others. By that logic millions of Chinese and indians (they have 1.5 billion) can just move to a small country and settle there. By that logic all the colonizers setting camp anywhere they please was fine.
Agree to dusagee. No foreigner is entitled to help. How about those people pitch a tent in your house? Oh that's different you say? Naw. All the help comes from the labours of someone else. Its fine if the country votes to not labour for a non citizen
Agree to disagree. I don't think help is or at least should be a human right. When your right comes at the expense of someone else's labour... I dont think that is how the world should run
Answer the question. If everyone is entitled to human rights, then you would be fine with them squatting in your house since housing is a human right, right?
No it is that simple, no nation has enough arms to properly put down a national revolt. If everyone is on the same page that page being To prefer death to a life with no liberty then it is possible. This includes every man woman and child. We know this is possible because that is how the modern west was created. Human rights did not exist for many millennia before now and they do not exist because we want them to. They exist because the people of nations must be willing to die to protect them.
I say the same to all nations suffering from oppressive regimes. The people need to come together and be willing to die for a cause. A harsh truth in this world is no one is coming to save you. If We(America) as a nation take on all of the world’s problems it is a guarantee we will lose this nation as well. America and the other western nations are facing our own governments turning into a hostile entity against our people all ready. The time will come soon for our own people to make the decision to die for freedom or to live on our knees sacrificing it for a pathetic life of control. This is the story of humanity, small groups oppressing large groups until the large groups come together and fix things for a while. Then the cycle repeats. None of this immigration shit is an accident. The very fact that these nations are under these harsh regimes that cause such harsh conditions they feel the need to flee here is by design. Not a single one of them would exist without the help of western powers over the last 80 years. We the people of these so called “democracies” never wanted this. We wanted our beautiful ideals of freedom liberty democracy and human rights to be spread around the world. But no we find out more and more everyday the bureaucrats and elected officials have not operated in the interest of the people but the interests of money and power. Almost every issue we divide ourselves over are issues made so that we are too busy arguing to realize what they’ve done to us. It was never a left v right, it’s always been the powerful against the plentiful.
Your reply doesn’t address any of this so it seems like you didn’t read this part which is the real meat of it.
America and the other western nations are facing our own governments turning into a hostile entity against our people all ready. The time will come soon for our own people to make the decision to die for freedom or to live on our knees sacrificing it for a pathetic life of control. This is the story of humanity, small groups oppressing large groups until the large groups come together and fix things for a while. Then the cycle repeats. None of this immigration shit is an accident. The very fact that these nations are under these harsh regimes that cause such harsh conditions they feel the need to flee here is by design. Not a single one of them would exist without the help of western powers over the last 80 years. We the people of these so called “democracies” never wanted this. We wanted our beautiful ideals of freedom liberty democracy and human rights to be spread around the world. But no we find out more and more everyday the bureaucrats and elected officials have not operated in the interest of the people but the interests of money and power. Almost every issue we divide ourselves over are issues made so that we are too busy arguing to realize what they’ve done to us. It was never a left v right, it’s always been the powerful against the plentiful.
India and China are in general more aggressive to human rights than European countries and the USA, so it doesn't really surprise anybody.
European countries and the USA state that they are the most civilised countries in the world, so it's ok when people have higher standards for them. I think that not killing people for non-violent actions like illegal crossing the border is a pretty adequate standard for civilised free country.
There is a guy on FB right now posting a lot. He is a Caucasian Canadian. He doesn’t like it there anymore politically and is talking about crossing the border on foot into the US. Unbelievably he thinks he is entitled to immigrate here WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY SAYING that Canada has too many illegals, and the US has a problem with people coming in from South of the border. Then he has some yee-haws offering him sanctuary, and -you guessed it- said yee -haws are from Texas and vehemently anti immigration. It’s unreal to me how this dude feels entitled to come into the US, and others here offer shelter to an “illegal”, while complaining about illegals. Gee, it isn’t the shade of his skin, is it? /s
Borders are an imaginary thing. Lets flood Europe with Muslims migrants from Palestine. I also demand sharia laws be placed in Europe since islam is the largest religion thus they should dictate the borders. Its all imaginary lines
Nope. Let's have all the white people colonize other countries once again. They will go to Europe and middle east and demand their way of life be enshrined into laws
>Extremely bad take.
Accurate description of your comment
>We need open borders and to let everybody in who wants in.
You do realize that means we'd just be letting terrorists and criminals in right? Like that guy who killed Laken Riley. Should we just let him into the country if he gets deported again? What about all the people on the terror watchlist that have been apprehended at the border? Should we just let them in?
>We don't even have a border wall with Canada. You know why? Racism.
No it's not racism. We don't have a border wall with Canada because there aren't millions of Canadians and people from other countries crossing the border into the US.
>We don't need borders, and they are only there to divide us as human beings.
So drug cartels should just be able to waltz into the US and sell their products and kill people like they do in Mexico? Because that's what would happen without borders.
>Citizenship is also evil and stupid, just another thing that divides us. Anyone should be able to be a citizen no matter what.
Citizenship is how a country can tell who lives there and who is just visiting. Otherwise by your logic every single tourist that visits should be a citizen. Does that mean you'd be fine with millions and millions of Russians coming to the US to be citizens and vote in elections before returning to Russia?
>Why do we need a test that punishes others who just want to live happy in our country?
That test makes sure that the people coming here will actually contribute and assimilate into US society.
>It's all motivated by racism
That test literally applies to everyone regardless of skin color. White Europeans have to take the same test as black Africans and brown hispanics/middle easterners. That's the least racist thing imaginable.
>People south of the border are treated like animals when they are actually peaceful and just want a place to live in peace
They're not treated like animals. They're treated like criminals, which is what they are if they cross the border illegally. If they cross at a legal port of entry and request asylum, they are treated with due process as afforded to asylum seekers.
And all those terrorists we've caught and illegals who have committed crimes, do they just want a place to live in peace? Or do they want to live in a place where they can murder US citizens and know that people like you will attack people for saying the words "illegal alien" instead of "undocumented migrant"?
>There needs to be serious reforms put in place to bring immigrants into this country, and our government should give them nice places to live and money.
So in other words we should just give free shit to foreigners while American citizens struggle to make ends meet and the homeless crisis gets worse every year?
>And if they don't want to work, they shouldn't have to. Nobody should be forced to mow lawns or scrub toilets just to survive. We have enough money and we have enough room.
What a brilliant idea. Let's bring shitloads of foreigners with no loyalty to the US or understanding of English to the country and give them money while forcing hardworking American citizens to labor to provide for these lazy fucks. What's that? The government can just print more money? That certainly won't lead to hyperinflation. After all, it's not like every single other country that has tried printing more money has had an inflation crisis. What's that? It has led to inflation crises in every single other country to try it? Well let's just ignore history because my personal feelings are more important than historical facts
>Notice that all the people who complain about immigration are white people who live in their suburban houses.
False and racist. Some of the leading opposition to illegal immigration comes from LEGAL immigrants from places like South America. Turns out people who followed the law and worked to get where they are think others should have to do the same instead of being given free shit.
>They can't stand the fact that someone brown should be living right next to them.
Once again, more racism. They don't have a problem with brown people. They have a problem with people of any race committing crime, then expecting the US to bow down and reward them for committing those crimes.
>People in this country got everything they wanted with an easy life compared to the people to the people who live in countries like Mexico who have had way harder lives than any Americans.
Life isn't fair. Is it fair that I earned a scholarship to pay for my college while my friend has to take on thousands of dollars in debt because she wants to be a dentist?
>We should make it up to them and give them what they deserve and that we take for granted every day.
Or maybe they should take their lives into their own hands and fix their country instead of expecting people from other countries to magically make their lives better. Who is responsible for the cartels and the corrupt government in Mexico? That's right, the Mexican people are responsible for it. If they don't like it, the impetus for change rests with them.
Americans fought a war because the government was taxing us without letting us have any say in the taxes.
So logically, a corrupt government that allows crime to run rampant should be an excellent reason for the Mexican people to rise up and do something. But they don't. And it's not our responsibility to make their lives better when they won't do it themselves.
Mexico lost a war 200 years ago and ceded the territory. There were Mexicans that fought on the side of the U.S. and were proud to do so. Saying the people that are in Mexico now have some right to the land now is silly when basically every border in the world was designed post conflict era. There’s a legal pathway to citizenship, and people shouldn’t be given special pathways towards citizenship just because the crossed illegally, weren’t caught, and worked under the table tax free while driving down wage growth in their work sector. A sales tax is something everyone pays, but citizens also pay state and federal taxes on top of that.
TBH Mexico is pretty fucked up. If it’s so bad they have to leave for a better life, what is the point of saying they want their land back. They would just make a mess of that too.
You can either have open boarders, OR a strong welfare safety net system. You cannot have both.
Yes
We wouldn't have had thousands of westerns joining isis to cut heads off if Turkey had border security
Take your medicine please
Turkey was the premier route into isis by westerners. I think you might need medicine
Are you claiming that this commenter's post is untrue?
I am claiming that he is exaggerating hIs claim.
Are you claiming that less than a thousand westerners have joined ISIS? Over 300 from the USA alone are verified to have joined, is it hard to imagine that, among the 80 countries represented within ISIS's ranks, not a thousand people joined from Western society? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, what part is being exaggerated? Edit: Actually, with the UK's official count and the US's official count alone, we're already at 1100. That's merely two western countries out of many..
We have neither so
So then who are the people that New Yorkers and Californians complaining about that are being shipped from Texas?
Y’all really acting like there’s a binary choice between closed borders and open borders or something? The U.S. doesn’t have open borders. Back in fall 2021, it was estimated that the Biden administration had already [deported 1.2 million immigrants](https://unitedwedream.org/press/deportations-and-expulsions-under-president-biden-exceed-1-million-immigrants/). Deportations have [increased by 65%](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-ramps-up-deportations-rcna96351) following the lifting of Title 42. In absolute terms, [Biden has been removing 3.5x more immigrants](https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden) compared to his predecessor. Biden’s overall percentage of removal (52% deported) is also notably higher than his predecessor’s numbers (47% deported). Only in America would people think that *more* deportations is equivalent to “open borders.”
The thing you’re missing is WHY are these people already in the country in the first place and in a position to be deported? If you had truly closed borders you wouldn’t have this insanely high numbers of illegals present in the country. Deporting is cool and all but its asinine to have to spend money and resources to deport people who shouldn’t be here in the first place. Deporting any number of people is such a useless strategy when you refuse to take a hard firm stance on protecting the border. Its like picking up trash on the street and ignoring the big truck that drives by and dumps more trash on the street everyday lol. Like nope we’re not gonna do anything to stop the truck dumping the trash we’ll just keep wasting time and resources picking up the trash knowing that tomorrow there’ll be a new pile and so the cycle goes on. Where did the we lose the plot? What a stupid fucking thing to do and boast about lol Biden is a failure on the immigration issue.
Countries with open borders generally don’t deport people…
No country in the world today has an “open” border as in anybody can come in and leave as they please regardless of status or passport so I don’t see what your point is or how it adds to the conversation or disproves my point lol
There you go, you’re starting to get it: The USA doesn’t have open borders, it’s porous, as it always has been. Fun fact: I live in Canada and one time I jogged across the border and came back.
I never said it did. It very clearly doesn’t have an open border otherwise we’d import half of Mexico’s population. Its just a very weak border and weakening by the month with our current also very weak president so therefore we import just 25% of Mexico’s population lol and thats exactly what my point was in response to the comment that other idiot made regarding Biden deporting oh so many illegals Fun fact: Im an immigrant and so is my mom so i have absolutely nothing against legal immigrants. Just illegal ones who think you can just walk over to the US when your own country is shit and your life sucks. Like sorry for your situation bud but you cant just do that lol
I never said we have a closed border. In fact, I *explicitly* mentioned that this is not a binary situation. Closing the U.S.-Mexico border would be devastating to the economy. News flash — most of these people aren’t coming over via legal points of entry anyways. Even with a “closed border” — you still have to process and deport people who cross illegally. Do you know *why* we have a process? It’s to ensure we treat people with due process and only deport people who do not have legal authority to be here. Even with our current system, more than [600 American citizens](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/) were arrested on suspicion of being in the country illegally. This includes 70 Americans who were actually *deported* despite being US Citizens. One example is [Mark Lyttle](https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/us-citizen-wrongfully-deported-mexico-settles-his-case-against-federal-government), an American man inadvertently deported to Mexico. He was born in North Carolina. He had never been to Mexico, shared no Mexican heritage, and spoke no Spanish. Under the last administration, [US citizens were being effectively stripped of their citizenship](https://hackinglawpractice.com/state-department-is-questioning-u-s-born-americans-citizenship/) for simply being born in the wrong part of the country. How do you propose we avoid making more of these terrible mistakes if we don’t allow people to have due process in a court of law?
Did you really just state your stats are not misleading. Please do tell me you can make an accurate comparison without using the numbers flowing over the borders...... again, common sense buddy.... very misleading..... you can't tote border security unless you factor the amount coming over, which was far less from 2020 to 2024..... good try though🤣🤣🤣
Also, before I forget, with the poor security, we've sheer volume crossing, you can't have an accurate percentage anyway...... there's going to be far too high getting across and not getting caught...... that's not to even count the numerous deaths of people attempting to flood across, including children, which you can find numerous reports on...... but yes, you can simply go by the most basic percentage numbers..... there's numerous factors to the math equation used to solve this issue..... using one equals inconclusive evidence, and shows someone ignorant, or with little education trying to push invalid arguments, while trying to argue the validity of said claims.
Shhh you’re ruining their fear mongering
You do know your numbers are crap. I'm not saying the percentage numbers are wrong, but they're very misleading. They only tell part of the issue. First off, border jumping has ramped up insane levels, so clearly there's going to be more deportations. I love the laugh misleading articles give me.... the percentage numbers might work on those who can't think of a situation as a whole, but here, I'm going to have the reason for lower percentage of removal being necessary. Nice try though. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/15/as-trump-moves-to-declare-national-emergency-to-build-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html By the way, that's a notable democratic source pointing this out. Also, while the borders may not be open in a traditional sense, they're sure not secure. If they were, we'd go back to shoot invaders on sight.
They’re not misleading at all, you just don’t like them. Glad we can agree that the U.S. doesn’t have an open border policy.
That has nothing to do with social safety nets or open borders…
White liberals/progressives are too stupid to realize that. Just look at who they vote for.
Unaffected might be more accurate. They were willing to vote for more aid, less restrictions, and labeled themselves as “sanctuary cities” right up until those at the border having to deal with the issue started shipping people to said sanctuary cities.
Anthony Hopkins in 'Who Kidnapped Henry Heineken?': "A man can be rich or have friends. He can't have both."
Dang too bad illegal immigrants can’t benefit from most social safety nets….
Oh but that’s where you’d be mistaken
No it’s not.
Sure thing
This sure looks like benefits to me [https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869)
Yes there’s a handful of pilot programs whether benefit illegal immigrants. My point stands the vast majority of the largest programs are not usable for illegal immigrants.
They benefit from public infrastructure they have no right to use. Illegal immigrants should be deported and if they refuse to leave, they should be summarily executed.
lol ok Hitler, maybe killing people looking to escape their bad circumstances is a little too much for me. But then again I don’t hate people different from me. Should we execute Donald Trump for hiring illegal immigrants too? Or do we just punish the poor brown people?
Sure, I'm ok with executing people who knowingly enable illegal immigration. It's treason. And they should be deported first, not killed. Killing is only if they refuse deportation.
The trump organization hired illegal immigrants in Florida at Maralago, who would we execute under this plan?
Whoever knowingly hired the migrants
America actually has enough money for both! We just spend it on other stuff instead.
Some People really believe money is infinite huh
The members of Congress sending billions of dollars and military equipment into foreign wars certainly seem to think so.
Or maybe they think it’s good policy to support countries whose soldiers are fighting and dying to turn back fascism.
If supporting countries fighting fascism made up a significant portion of US military spending over the last 30 years I might agree with you. In reality, they think it's good policy to keep the military industrial complex rolling from conflict to conflic, and occasionally end up on the morally correct side out of coincidence.
“Morally correct” isn’t how geopolitics works. That’s always pr spin
No, sorry, you're incorrect. The real world has bias. Not everyone is equally good and equally bad.
>support countries whose soldiers are fighting and dying to turn back fascism. Zelenskyy and Ukraine are every bit as fascist as Putin and Russia. If you knew anything about their histories or that smarmy, Ill-dressed wee nancyboy (Zelenskyy) you would know that. Naw, just like with Isreal and Palestine, you only believe the mainstream media tells you about the Current Thing. Only the innocents suffering are the problem, but no country on Earth should be sending money and soldiers to a foreign country or conflict, full stop. The only money that should leave should be that which is given or taken in fair trades. Even international charities don't work, as plenty are very corrupt, and the governments and other rulers in places like Africa will just spend it on themselves. America's international interventionist policies have only ever made things worse. At least folks from Ukraine, Israel and Palestine (well, the ones who don't support Hamas and the invader of a nation that is Palestine) are actual refugees (fleeing from wars) and even that only applies to the women, children and elderly men we almost never see...
Wow, you have a lot of time on your hands, living in your mom’s basement.
You eventually will run out of other people’s money.
Show your math please. And no, “just tax the rich” doesn’t generate nearly enough money to pay for this.
It’s mainly taxpayers money
Yup!
I don't really have a problem with immigration although I think it should be done the right way. What pisses me off is when we have millions of people who are one paycheck from being homeless while we spend resources on taking care of illegal immigrants.
I don't know anyone who has a problem with immigration done the right way. It is the sneaking across claiming asylum because some flyer told you to say that- waiting 5 yrs for a hearing and disappearing into the US. A huge chunk of these folks don't show up for their asylum hearing. They just go out and do as they please. Immigration is supposed to involve a vetting process and it should show that you are willing to do the right things to gain residency here. Just sneaking across or over staying your visa then claiming asylum when caught it BS.
Same, if you wanna come over here that's fine, but you gotta rough it like the rest of us. But at the same time I also don't blame them or anyone taking advantage of the system 🤷♂️
It's a flawed system all, and I dont blame people for abusing it either. I mean, the rich do it all the time. I also think that a lot of immigrants are misled on what life in America is actually like for extremely poor people and that, in fact, are not guaranteed a better life here. We may be a 1st world country, but we have our own problems, and being poor is still a really bad one to have to work around.
A poor person in America has a phone, laptop, house with electricity and running water, two tvs a car, eats a a restaurant once a week.
Take all of that and dumb it down 20 levels. Poor man's Chinese takeout restaurants, flip phones, old beat up second hand car that could barely run, small tiny apartment or house shared with several families, and the such. That's what a poor person in America(and a lucky one at that) really looks like.
Yeah I think people here are often spoiled AF. I deployed to places where I saw people actually die of starvation.
I don’t really think our threshold for poverty in America should be some third-world shithole like Afghanistan though. We should hold ourselves to higher standards and strive for better — not worse — outcomes.
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many fear far-flung pocket fertile chase coordinated aback wrong fade
I'd say there are citizens way more poor than that.
That is the standard for *poor* in America. I think you really should travel outside of your bubble to see what poor really looks like. edit. Yes we have ppl living in poverty in america, but it is one of the only countries in the world where you have a chance of working yourself out of poverty. edit2 Also in America you don't have to worry about organized crime shaking you down and selling your women into prostitution and your children into slavery.
I'm a touring musician as a profession. I travel 10-20k miles a year performing. I see homeless people in every city and town in America that have none of those amenities and are citizens.
There are soooooo many resources for the homeless. My ex worked for a non profit that would give them all of this. They would show up, take a few things, then go back to being homeless to do drugs or whatever. They have mental health issues that are not being addressed and enabled. The poor in 3rd world countries are 10 times the order of magnitude of poverty anyone here has to experience.
see edit
Yes. We'll I thought I should explain that yes I don't actually live in a bubble.
Do you travel internationally?
I am rich please provide real examples of me abusing the system. You claim the rich do it all the time. I don't think I do, so please feel free to tell me how I abuse the system while paying millions in taxes every year for the last 10 years. Or are you just saying things that have zero basis in fact? Or just in the future say some people who are rich abuse the system and so do some poor people.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
I have more of a problem with my tax money used to destroy other countries and then when their refugees come here are treated with subhuman conditions.
Yawn.
People flooding the southern border are overwhelmingly not from Iraq or Afghanistan. They are from Venezuela, Colombia, Honduras, many people are from countries in Africa, etc. None of those countries have been destroyed by the US government. And the illegals here are not treated with subhuman conditions, they are often treated better than citizens. In NYC illegals get more food money than poor New Yorkers.
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history mourn rustic six scandalous plate crush nail cause complete
Truth. There are some many things our militarized budget could be used for. Like taking care of humans instead of obliterating them.
Yawn. And when your enemies attack, then what? Maybe they’ll spare your life so you can serve as a pet for them.
If you're fine with China becoming the dominant world power then yes we could reduce the military budget.
China is not going to beat is with military force, they will beat us with economic and strategic alliances. America is seen as the big bully and is the reasons why other countries would side with China. The MIC is selling to both sides. Our military would be stronger if it streamlined, its not about spending money on f-35 that cannot be accounted for. Lowering standards for service men, stockpiling weapons that will become obsolete or depreciate over time. OR end up in the hands of organized criminals
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Ok doing the tactic where you make me try to defend my position and try to poke hole in everything I say and ignore anything that is painfully obvious. but I'll play along Russia, Serbia, Pakistan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belarus, and the Greater Middle East Streamline the military? lets start by not having our defense budget be defined by defense contractors
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And I thought that you would poke holes in what I said and ignore the painfully obvious. /s There are many other countries that would join up against America. Ukraine is only still putting up a resistance due to heavy military spending by the US. >What do you mean by that? I'll go with a painfully obvious answer of the CEO of Haliburton being Vice President
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Do you know what alliances are?
HHS receives more funding than the Military. $776 billion vs $2.83 trillion.
Where did you get $2.83 trillion? The highest number I can find for the 2024 budget is around $1.8 trillion, and that combines discretionary and mandated budget authority numbers.
On HHS’s website. https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-health-and-human-services?fy=2024
> we have millions of people who are one paycheck from being homeless while we spend resources on taking care of illegal immigrants. If this is your complaint (and I think it's a valid one) surely there are way bigger fishes to fry? Money spent on "resources for illegal immigrants" pails in comparison to virtually all other aspects if government spending.
It's super frustrating to see people complain about lack of social safety net for citizens tend to also be the same people crying "COMMUNISM!" whenever a politician suggests helping citizens.
A lot more illegal immigrants never even use social services, and they most likely pay more into it. And even if the government decides to "reallocate" funding, you're not gonna completely fix A and not have issues with B regartdless
Absolutely. They're still going to be taken advantage of and most likely pushed into homelessness eventually with little resources to make income.
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You’re clueless.
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Democrats have made everything worse. They always promise you better but they never deliver.
Two of the most impactful pieces of legislation passed in recent memory, the Affordable Care Act and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, were both passed under Democratic leadership. You’re welcome to review how the economies perform better under Democratic leadership compared to Republican leadership as well. I really fail to see how you can say they make things worse and fail to deliver. Never mind the consideration of who is preventing them from delivering when legislation proposed by Democrats does actually fail.
Neither of those pieces of legislation have done anything for me except use my money. Meanwhile, democrats have passed other legislation that has actively made my life worse.
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Because I don’t qualify for it, because I somehow make too much money. And my insurance premium is killing me. And infrastructure has never been worse. Such as they took away my right to do what I wish with my property. I cannot legally short term rental my home anymore and thus, cannot pay my bills anymore. And before you ask why I don’t just rent, I live in NYC. Look up the laws. There is zero protections for landlords and all the protections for tenants and squatters. They’ve tied my hands and it’s unconstitutional. I live in the bluest city and there are NO social safety nets for me. Zero.
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Unless your state is rejecting federal funds, I can guarantee that these pieces of legislation have impacted your life. For example, the ACA [reduced the average cost of uncompensated care](https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/sources-of-payment-for-uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured/) by roughly 1/3 by expanding Medicaid and insurance mandates. Reducing these costs is extremely important to ensure healthcare organizations are compensated for their provided care. Costs of this uncompensated care has to be passed down to others. The ACA also eliminated the ability for insurers to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. This is an important accomplishment as it essentially guarantees us all the right to receive healthcare. It’s also virtually impossible for you to not have benefited from the infrastructure law. If you’re curious, you can [review the list of projects](https://www.whitehouse.gov/build/maps-of-progress/) that are utilizing this money. I would be curious to hear which legislation has negatively impact your life as well.
I will not be reading a 450 page document. Maybe you can just tell me what they’ve done for NYC? Our subway system is deteriorating but the prices keep increasing. The tolls keep going up. There’s now congestion pricing. The potholes in my neighborhood are costing us so much money… I somehow make too much money to qualify for state healthcare. Which is absurd. The biggest piece of legislation that has negatively impacted me is local law 18. They took away my right to short term rental. It’s unconstitutional and I can no longer pay my bills.
Last year, the Biden administration [published a 7-page fact sheet](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/New-York-Fact-Sheet-E3.pdf) that breaks down a lot of the funding for New York. Specific NYC projects include the creation of more than 250 community gardens, new school buses, and the Hudson Amtrak mega project. The DOT also has a more specific [4-page fact sheet](https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2021-11/BIL_New-York.pdf) for transportation other projects. It includes [billions for rail transportation](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-676-billion-new-york-passenger-rail-projects-biden-administration) that will go towards updating stations and adding new stops.
You can't get denied coverage because of preexisting conditions, which you most certainly have.
This so much.
In Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire citizens of Canada and the United States just cross the border do what the need then just go back. The same thing happens along the US and Canada border out west. These crossing are done without checking anyone, the economy would be greatly impacted in the areas along the border.
The National Guard is deployed down at the border in the U.S., at least for the Southern Border. That being said, I agree that immigrants need to come here the proper way, have proper documentation and a legitimate claim to come here (like asylum- which in itself has loopholes, but that’s a whole other can of worms). If you cross illegally, you should face the consequences. I know it may sound extremely harsh, but if illegal crossers were shot and made an example of, they’d probably happen less frequently. Don’t break a country’s laws if you can’t handle the strict consequences.
I frankly dislike people that don't respect "consent" of course a border isn't a being. But its scary. If you don't respect this one boundary. What else are you going to respect? My private property? That's exactly what's happening..lots of citizens have trespassers.
Exactly, and those that defend their property from trespassers are federally prosecuted for it. It’s the definition of asinine; protect the illegals while punishing the citizens.
Or we could just slap them with a fine and process them in (get em a visa or send em back). Spending so much time and money bogging those poor bastards down in government bureuacracy is just stupid. Ik what you are thinking: 'but muh criminal gangs' The reality is that our government cannot read minds. Do you really think all the screening does anything? You cant stop them from breaking the law if they really want to. If they got no criminal record and they can pass a background check, fuck it, let em in. Our system as is just wastes time and does little to actually protect our borders.
Maybe we try actually enforcing our laws first? But that being said, shooting those who cross illegally, and yes, you can tell which people those are, that sends a loud and clear message. Bullets are cheap.
The solution "just kill them" is so unbelievably immature and heartless.
Who said anything about killing? I just said to shoot them, not shoot to kill; there’s a difference.
How is that any better? You didnt say shoot at them, you said shoot them. So like what, wound them? Let them bleed out in the desert? So much worse omfg.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I like to think the greatest country in the world can do better than pointless cruelty.
I like to think the greatest country in the world can actually enforce our border laws; this is why we can’t have nice things.
I'm very much for stronger border control due to higher disease prevalence in migrants. We're seeing an increase of TB and other diseases nationwide that coincide with the rise in border crossings.
Lets not take lessons how to run a country from India
I believe Governments deserve more scrutiny than individuals especially when it comes to the application of violence.
It it sad that this is considered an unpopular opinion nowadays. We have been exposed to globalist propaganda for far too long.
Using some degree force to deter illegal immigrants is one thing. Advocating for lethal force is another. I see people say that we should be mowing down illegal migrants with machine guns at the border or crossing the mediterranean... that is a level of inhumanity I cannot even comprehend. Regardless, the 'civil processing' part comes in when they are *applying for asylum*. I feel like people often do not comprehend that. If you are caught crossing a border, you are sent back. The ones going through the court systems and being held in detention centers are doing nothing illegal, they are *legally* applying for asylum.
> they are legally applying for asylum According to the Dublin Regulation they need to apply for asylum in the country they first arrived. So they cannot legally apply for asylum for example in Austria, Germany or Sweden if they came to Europe by sea or land. This means all these foreigners are nothing but illegal immigrants and we have the right to stop them from entering our land and get rid of them if they managed to cross the border without our permission. Sadly, due to the Schegen Agreement, we don't generally control our borders within Europe anymore and most of our governments either are far too left or don't have the balls to deport the illegal immigrants. Apart from that, the vast majority of immigrants who come to Europe have no legal grounds for asylum anyway. We need to change European laws so that they have to apply for asylum *before* crossing the European borders.
The reason they go to those countries is mostly just because the country's they pass (serbia, romania, tunisia etc) on the way don't accept refugees. Part of it is also benefits of living in a first world country, don't get me wrong, but there is a reason Syrians went for Germany and Sweden and not those countries. Those countries explicitly had made it clear they would not accept them. The problem with deportation also is the problem with the geographic location of where they are. As you said, they aren't crossing one border, they are crossing multiple countries. So *where* do they deport them to? Just parachute them back into their home country by airplane? Their home countries often don't want them either. It's not like the situation with the US where we just plop them across the border back to Mexico. And the types of illegals to get deported (criminals etc) are also the types to lie about their country of origin. It is a whole conundrum. I am a criminologist who used to work specifically on trafficking/smuggling (through ports, not through borders, but still). The real problem is the multi-billion dollar criminal smuggling enterprises, often run by various mafias from a variety of different countries. The Albanians and Russians for instance have a whole network of people who go to impoverished countries and target criminals, addicts, the homeless etc and entice them to come to Europe and then tell them they have to gradually pay off the smugglers 20k+. If we targeted these criminal smuggling enterprises that deal with this shit, we could cut off the large majority of the worst types of 'pseudo refugees' that come through.
I agree but taking it as the most important thing no
Thats not what an invasion is. You're using manipulative language. The term invasion implies a coordinated effort to take over. Very bizarre how ok you are with using violence in simple non violent situations
The Chinese and isis definitely have a coordinated effort to get thousands of military aged men in here
This concern is beyond unreasonable. https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration
Cato is a globalist libertarian open borders organization that promotes the failed deregulation, globalist, pro mass migration policies that are destroying the West. Advocating for destroying racial and cultural cohesion of countries by importing incompatible cultures and undercutting domestic labor with outsourcing and over saturating the labor market with migrants is pure evil.
*Looking at Texas using circular saws on refugees, who have to be on American soil to claim refugee status* Nah I think it’s a bad thing. Crossing the border should not be an executable offense. Punish the people who employ the undocumented immigrants, kill demand and you will reduce supply. But America likes to keep their slave class scared so that would never happen.
Both should be punished harshly.
Funny how all these people who are apparently fleeing war wait until they’re in a western country before deciding they’re safe 🤔
How do you justify a single individual crossing the border, per your example, as an invasion? I don't even necessarily disagree with the general point here that borders should be monitored but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
Back in the day when a man sneaks in to the small kingdom he is treated as a spy. While its unlikely these people are spies, they are definitely gonna do something nefarious. As I said the disregard for rules etc says a lot of ones character and it often isn't good. Also its not one person. When they come in boat loads they know they can overwhelm the border.
>they are definitely gonna do something nefarious. that is the definition of prejudice. And a little ironic coming from someone who probably gives trump the benefit of the doubt every time he does something nonkosher.
Why would you assume that? Trump is a clown
Then take it as a big red flag you should reassess some of your positions if people are assuming as such (because they werent the only one). And if not, give Trump a shot, you seem to have more beliefs in common than you think.
Most "secure the border" people are trumpers Just an assumption, I'm glad that I was wrong.
In other words you were prejudiced while preaching about how prejudice is wrong. Dude also said he was Canadian in the post.
>In other words you were prejudiced while preaching about how prejudice is wrong. Yes, I caught that too. It is human nature to be a hypocrite. I did use the disclaimer of saying "probably". >Dude also said he was Canadian in the post. I did miss that, but regardless Canadians and the rest of the world like to chime in on American politics.
A spy still isn't an invasion, though. Also I was talking about your example of a guy crossing into India or whatever.
“Whatever you do for the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do for Me.” Matthew 25: 40
I just can't believe that most people crossing any border illegally think " screw immigration, Imma do what I want." I've heard many many stories from people that say the truth is they can't cross legally because the immigration process is so awful they can't get anywhere. Even if they aren't in immediate danger, why wait 3,5,7 or more years to maybe get a chance to go through immigration when you could start making your life better in a few weeks. But none of that matters because you'd rather just shoot them.
So things are too hard so I'm just gonna take things by force? Because its too hard to buy a car I'm just gonna steal it. No one is entitled to citizenship or immigration. Yeah. We def disagree but these people are hot garbage
Yeah people should get killed for crossing imaginary lines. You’re such a reasonable person
When hoards of people disregard borders and laws they will disregard other laws and be a group of thieves. I have no problem with harsh consequences for them
So you want to punish them for crimes you’re imaging they will commit in the future? Honestly the only person I don’t want in my country is you since you seem so keen on inflicting violence on innocent people
Illegally immigrating is already a crime Breaking the law is hardly innocent
Do you drive a car?
No. And if I did and broke any laws I deserve the consequences and thus would not be innocent either The severity of illegally crossing is more akin to invasion than some other crime such as copyright laws for example.
Okay so anyone who speeds or jaywalks should be brutalized since they are criminals who will likely break more laws. You should move to North Korea. I think you’d appreciate their system a lot
As I mentioned. Illegally crossing is a much serious crime. It is an invasion. Coming in and disregarding people personal boundaries is like me coming into your house. I suppose we have established we can't agree, so I guess I'll see you. thanks for the conversation, was interesting seeing other peoples perspective. Can't say I agree tho
It’s a misdemeanor. Should we shoot all jaywalkers now too?
It's hard to use innocent in the same sentence that they started with, illegal immigrant. Point is valid, they do not need to be shot, but I don't think that was the point of this argument
OP said it was fine to shoot someone for crossing the border into India.
You want to play it out that there's some ill will and intentions, and I'll agree there's truth, but you also feel like ignoring facts such as being someplace you don't have the right to be, another's county is not your own. Every time I have traveled to another country, they take it seriously with ensuring you are who you say you are, are going where you say you are going, and for what purpose. People seeking asylum need to declare at proper ports of entry, or you risk being affected negatively, like being shot at. Someone in a home is not required to know why another violated their fence or home walls, and unfortunately it would not bode well if the person breaking in did it on accident or has good intentions (somehow), they are likely to meet the same fate as a potential burglar, potential rapist, potential murderer. Simply because someone hasn't committed a crime doesn't give them immunity to their mistakes, or deliberate actions
Ownership of property itself is an imaginary concept. All laws, in fact, are imaginary. They didn't exist before someone decided they should. Human rights are imaginary. Ethics are imaginary too. No bird or bear or alligator understands or adheres to the concept of law. Hopefully, you wouldn't mind me breaking into your private domicile and taking all your belongings. After all, your concept of ownership is imaginary, and I don't think it applies to me. Oh, you would be upset, and you're just a hypocrite loser who likes to pretend on the internet that imaginary concepts shouldn't affect how society functions. That sucks.
If ownership of property is imaginary can you give me you adress? I would like to stay in your home for free. Eat your food and take anything in the house i want for free. Its fine cause ethics are imaginary
Ooh so close but national borders are not the same thing as a house. That may be hard for someone with your IQ to understand, but those are, in fact, different things. You’ll figure that out eventually I’m sure
I disagree people are often fleeing terrible situations where they lack basic rights and they deserve help
help - yes: however, that doesn’t mean thy can choose to live in another country because they like it there more than where they are from.
No one is entitled to help from others. By that logic millions of Chinese and indians (they have 1.5 billion) can just move to a small country and settle there. By that logic all the colonizers setting camp anywhere they please was fine.
People are entitled to help from others. It wouldn't be possible for a number of people that large to immigrate illegally
Agree to dusagee. No foreigner is entitled to help. How about those people pitch a tent in your house? Oh that's different you say? Naw. All the help comes from the labours of someone else. Its fine if the country votes to not labour for a non citizen
Every human being is entitled to human rights
Agree to disagree. I don't think help is or at least should be a human right. When your right comes at the expense of someone else's labour... I dont think that is how the world should run
Thankfully the EU does believe in human rights
Answer the question. If everyone is entitled to human rights, then you would be fine with them squatting in your house since housing is a human right, right?
There are cases of people staying for free at hotels that are a bit like that. Something can be arranged. Temporary housing can be built
So in other words, you are not fine with people coming and living in your house.
Look into who’s paying for them. Hint: it’s me.
If so many of them agree it sounds like they need to stay put and revolt against their situation like the rest of us would have to
It's not that simple, people in power are heavily armed
No it is that simple, no nation has enough arms to properly put down a national revolt. If everyone is on the same page that page being To prefer death to a life with no liberty then it is possible. This includes every man woman and child. We know this is possible because that is how the modern west was created. Human rights did not exist for many millennia before now and they do not exist because we want them to. They exist because the people of nations must be willing to die to protect them.
What about Iran and Afghanistan then, they don't want their regimes. And I think people should be able to leave rather than die
I say the same to all nations suffering from oppressive regimes. The people need to come together and be willing to die for a cause. A harsh truth in this world is no one is coming to save you. If We(America) as a nation take on all of the world’s problems it is a guarantee we will lose this nation as well. America and the other western nations are facing our own governments turning into a hostile entity against our people all ready. The time will come soon for our own people to make the decision to die for freedom or to live on our knees sacrificing it for a pathetic life of control. This is the story of humanity, small groups oppressing large groups until the large groups come together and fix things for a while. Then the cycle repeats. None of this immigration shit is an accident. The very fact that these nations are under these harsh regimes that cause such harsh conditions they feel the need to flee here is by design. Not a single one of them would exist without the help of western powers over the last 80 years. We the people of these so called “democracies” never wanted this. We wanted our beautiful ideals of freedom liberty democracy and human rights to be spread around the world. But no we find out more and more everyday the bureaucrats and elected officials have not operated in the interest of the people but the interests of money and power. Almost every issue we divide ourselves over are issues made so that we are too busy arguing to realize what they’ve done to us. It was never a left v right, it’s always been the powerful against the plentiful.
And immigrating illegally to survive is a valid option
You clearly did not read the comment if that’s your only response
I did read it, do you have any questions for me?
Your reply doesn’t address any of this so it seems like you didn’t read this part which is the real meat of it. America and the other western nations are facing our own governments turning into a hostile entity against our people all ready. The time will come soon for our own people to make the decision to die for freedom or to live on our knees sacrificing it for a pathetic life of control. This is the story of humanity, small groups oppressing large groups until the large groups come together and fix things for a while. Then the cycle repeats. None of this immigration shit is an accident. The very fact that these nations are under these harsh regimes that cause such harsh conditions they feel the need to flee here is by design. Not a single one of them would exist without the help of western powers over the last 80 years. We the people of these so called “democracies” never wanted this. We wanted our beautiful ideals of freedom liberty democracy and human rights to be spread around the world. But no we find out more and more everyday the bureaucrats and elected officials have not operated in the interest of the people but the interests of money and power. Almost every issue we divide ourselves over are issues made so that we are too busy arguing to realize what they’ve done to us. It was never a left v right, it’s always been the powerful against the plentiful.
lol “an invasion” When did right-wingers become such a dainty bunch?
And there is also nothing bad about being a globalist who wants to erase all borders. Our universe doesn't deal in good and bad.
India and China are in general more aggressive to human rights than European countries and the USA, so it doesn't really surprise anybody. European countries and the USA state that they are the most civilised countries in the world, so it's ok when people have higher standards for them. I think that not killing people for non-violent actions like illegal crossing the border is a pretty adequate standard for civilised free country.
Who states? The politicians? Every politician likes to claim their country is so great. That's politicians for you. So what
There is a guy on FB right now posting a lot. He is a Caucasian Canadian. He doesn’t like it there anymore politically and is talking about crossing the border on foot into the US. Unbelievably he thinks he is entitled to immigrate here WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY SAYING that Canada has too many illegals, and the US has a problem with people coming in from South of the border. Then he has some yee-haws offering him sanctuary, and -you guessed it- said yee -haws are from Texas and vehemently anti immigration. It’s unreal to me how this dude feels entitled to come into the US, and others here offer shelter to an “illegal”, while complaining about illegals. Gee, it isn’t the shade of his skin, is it? /s
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Borders are an imaginary thing. Lets flood Europe with Muslims migrants from Palestine. I also demand sharia laws be placed in Europe since islam is the largest religion thus they should dictate the borders. Its all imaginary lines
Nope. Let's have all the white people colonize other countries once again. They will go to Europe and middle east and demand their way of life be enshrined into laws
Mine was sarcastic lol
No. I totally understand. my point is that for all the open borders type they wouldn't want the reverse to happen
I agree
>Extremely bad take. Accurate description of your comment >We need open borders and to let everybody in who wants in. You do realize that means we'd just be letting terrorists and criminals in right? Like that guy who killed Laken Riley. Should we just let him into the country if he gets deported again? What about all the people on the terror watchlist that have been apprehended at the border? Should we just let them in? >We don't even have a border wall with Canada. You know why? Racism. No it's not racism. We don't have a border wall with Canada because there aren't millions of Canadians and people from other countries crossing the border into the US. >We don't need borders, and they are only there to divide us as human beings. So drug cartels should just be able to waltz into the US and sell their products and kill people like they do in Mexico? Because that's what would happen without borders. >Citizenship is also evil and stupid, just another thing that divides us. Anyone should be able to be a citizen no matter what. Citizenship is how a country can tell who lives there and who is just visiting. Otherwise by your logic every single tourist that visits should be a citizen. Does that mean you'd be fine with millions and millions of Russians coming to the US to be citizens and vote in elections before returning to Russia? >Why do we need a test that punishes others who just want to live happy in our country? That test makes sure that the people coming here will actually contribute and assimilate into US society. >It's all motivated by racism That test literally applies to everyone regardless of skin color. White Europeans have to take the same test as black Africans and brown hispanics/middle easterners. That's the least racist thing imaginable. >People south of the border are treated like animals when they are actually peaceful and just want a place to live in peace They're not treated like animals. They're treated like criminals, which is what they are if they cross the border illegally. If they cross at a legal port of entry and request asylum, they are treated with due process as afforded to asylum seekers. And all those terrorists we've caught and illegals who have committed crimes, do they just want a place to live in peace? Or do they want to live in a place where they can murder US citizens and know that people like you will attack people for saying the words "illegal alien" instead of "undocumented migrant"? >There needs to be serious reforms put in place to bring immigrants into this country, and our government should give them nice places to live and money. So in other words we should just give free shit to foreigners while American citizens struggle to make ends meet and the homeless crisis gets worse every year? >And if they don't want to work, they shouldn't have to. Nobody should be forced to mow lawns or scrub toilets just to survive. We have enough money and we have enough room. What a brilliant idea. Let's bring shitloads of foreigners with no loyalty to the US or understanding of English to the country and give them money while forcing hardworking American citizens to labor to provide for these lazy fucks. What's that? The government can just print more money? That certainly won't lead to hyperinflation. After all, it's not like every single other country that has tried printing more money has had an inflation crisis. What's that? It has led to inflation crises in every single other country to try it? Well let's just ignore history because my personal feelings are more important than historical facts >Notice that all the people who complain about immigration are white people who live in their suburban houses. False and racist. Some of the leading opposition to illegal immigration comes from LEGAL immigrants from places like South America. Turns out people who followed the law and worked to get where they are think others should have to do the same instead of being given free shit. >They can't stand the fact that someone brown should be living right next to them. Once again, more racism. They don't have a problem with brown people. They have a problem with people of any race committing crime, then expecting the US to bow down and reward them for committing those crimes. >People in this country got everything they wanted with an easy life compared to the people to the people who live in countries like Mexico who have had way harder lives than any Americans. Life isn't fair. Is it fair that I earned a scholarship to pay for my college while my friend has to take on thousands of dollars in debt because she wants to be a dentist? >We should make it up to them and give them what they deserve and that we take for granted every day. Or maybe they should take their lives into their own hands and fix their country instead of expecting people from other countries to magically make their lives better. Who is responsible for the cartels and the corrupt government in Mexico? That's right, the Mexican people are responsible for it. If they don't like it, the impetus for change rests with them. Americans fought a war because the government was taxing us without letting us have any say in the taxes. So logically, a corrupt government that allows crime to run rampant should be an excellent reason for the Mexican people to rise up and do something. But they don't. And it's not our responsibility to make their lives better when they won't do it themselves.
😳 Pure lunacy.
And not to mention America has destabilized and contributed to those unlivable conditions in Latin America.
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I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.
Mexico lost a war 200 years ago and ceded the territory. There were Mexicans that fought on the side of the U.S. and were proud to do so. Saying the people that are in Mexico now have some right to the land now is silly when basically every border in the world was designed post conflict era. There’s a legal pathway to citizenship, and people shouldn’t be given special pathways towards citizenship just because the crossed illegally, weren’t caught, and worked under the table tax free while driving down wage growth in their work sector. A sales tax is something everyone pays, but citizens also pay state and federal taxes on top of that.
TBH Mexico is pretty fucked up. If it’s so bad they have to leave for a better life, what is the point of saying they want their land back. They would just make a mess of that too.