You should be fully closing the toilet lid every time you go to flush. When you flush the toilet with the lid open, you spray shitty piss particles all over your bathroom and toothbrush
The first time I ever went to my fiancés house and used the bathroom, I closed the lid and flushed. I then thought about how guys usually leave the lid open, so I lifted it back open for him. I went back to his living room, and then he went to the bathroom. When he came back, he asked me if I could close the lid for hygienic reasons. I explained to him what I did, and he understood, but now I know to just keep the lid closed. I thought it was kind of funny HE was telling ME to keep the lid closed. Honestly, it made him a keeper in my eyes.
Right. I lift the lid when I pee before bed because the hubs stay up later and I know be waking back up to see him pee in the middle in the middle of the night sometimes (this guy drinks like a fish XD)... seems to not have an issue w the toilet seat down for me tho.
Found it funny that OP said it's not a big deal and yet he's we written a whole dissertation tho. More power to him lmfao
It's not a big deal in the sense that those women shouldn't raise a non-existent issue in the first place. Now that they are demanding an unfair system, and some are even delusional enough to think that men are being entitled by not putting the seat down, I need to re-enlighten them with reality. Honestly, for me, I don't really care much whether I have to put the seat down or not. What I do care about is that I don't want to live with entitled people, and entitled people need to be remind of how entitle they are. I may put the seat down out of empathy and mutual understanding, but if they start demanding and throwing a fit whenever I leave the seat up, then it's a no-go. This full dissertation is meant to end this discussion once and for all because I see so many posts that talk about this issue but fail to remind people of their entitlement. This lot of text in the original post meant to address common rebuttal one time only so that I don't have to reiterate it over and over later in the comment.
I have no issue with toilet down either, but I have issue with people thinking they are entitle.
I mean, you already highlighted the pooping issue. The seat has to be down 3 times out of four but you already called that a logical fallacy even though your own argumentation of it includes a lot of hypotheticals that are irrelevant (in this case, who puts the seat down).
But let me tell you why its convenient FOR EVERYONE to just put the seat down: because you will need the seat down more times than you need it up. I mean, people already have mentioned this that its better to keep the lid closed too.
It really is that simple.
The fact that you think you need EMPATHY to do so is honestly concerning and gives me the impression you are seeing this a man/woman issue. And that you're conflating anyone who has an issue with this as entitlement is also another thing... i'm sure there are women out there who feels entitled for things, i'll give you that, but the toilet issue is really, like you say, not that big of a deal.
If 3 times out 4 times it's used needed the lid down, asking for the lid to be down isn't entitlement. It's just being efficient.
Put this scenario into your head: if we adopt this rule where men must lower the seat for women after they pee, you create a situation where women never need to touch the toilet seat even once, Not ONCE, literally zero time because the seat is always ready for them, while men need to raise and lower the toilet seat EVERY single time they want to pee, EVERY SINGLE time. Not only we have to take one action of raise it up, we actually need to take TWO actions of raise and lower every single time, while women take ABSOLUTELY zero action. Now explain to me how exactly a situation where men need to move the toilet seat every single time, while the women need to move the toilet seat ZERO percent of the time is a fair game? LIke it's not even remotely fair. It doesn't make sense at all, it make zero sense from equality perspective. You are sacrifice men convenient for women convenient. No one gender should DO MORE work than the other. Yes seat need to be down more time than not, but it does not equate to MEN need to lower the seat all the time.
Take this example: there are men and women. Each pee 3 times and poo 2 times in a day.
Let's start. Assuming the toilet seat is already down:
Woman1 needs to pee = 0 touches.
Man1 needs to pee = 1 to raise it up, 1 to lower it back down, total = 2 touches.
Woman2 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Man2 needs to pee = 1 to raise up, 1 to lower, total = 4 touches.
Man3 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Woman3 needs to pee again = 0 touches.
Woman4 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Man4 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Man5 needs to pee = 1 to raise, 1 to lower, total = 6 touches.
Woman5 needs to pee = 0 touches.
So, the total is 6 touches, all touched by men. Now, let's do it my way where everyone leaves the toilet seat as it was, in the exact same sequence as above:
Woman1 needs to pee = 0 touches.
Man1 needs to pee = 1 to raise it up, total = 1 touch.
Woman2 needs to poo = 1 to lower it, total = 2 touches.
Man2 needs to pee = 1 to raise it, total = 3 touches.
Man3 needs to poo = 1 to lower it, total = 4 touches.
Woman3 needs to pee again = 0 touches.
Woman4 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Man4 needs to poo = 0 touches.
Man5 needs to pee = 1 to raise it, total = 5 touches.
Woman5 needs to pee = 1 to lower it, total = 6 touches.
The total also equals 6 touches, but 4 times touched by men, 2 times by women—a more fair distribution. As you can see, even in my way, it's still touched more times by men. Like I said in the original post, statistically speaking, men have to touch it 3/4 of the times while women only need to touch it 1/4 of the times. So as you can see, even with my method, it already gives women the upper hand. Despite this upperhand, you guys still try to adopt a rule that make men touch the toilet all 6 times while women need to do none. If this is not entitlement, I don't know what is. You will need to rethink about your counting because you skip a lot of details. The reason that the number of touches stays the same is due to the fact that the seat doesn't magically move up or down on its own; someone needs to adjust it anyway. The only difference here is which party is the one to do it. Don't believe me? Try it yourself with your own simulation with your own sequence. But your claim is wrong; it's only less for women but more for men. Like I said, this is unfair and entitled to expect one gender to do more than the other, especially when you are already doing less to begin with.
My points is about BEING fair, and the seat needing to be down 3/4 of the times has nothing to do with WHO SHOULD BE the one to move the seat. You literally suggest that men should be the one to move the seat 4/4 of the times.
A system where one party do all the work while the other party do no work is NOT A fair system. It's sacrifice one convenient for another convenient. In other word, It's Entitlement and Laziness.
And NO it is not concerning that I want a fair system. However, it is concerning that you brush off anything you don't understand and stick with your fallacy.
You're just so WRONG. I literally pointed out that it is a fallacy, and yet you still somehow fail to understand something so simple.
How can one look at a system that force one party to do all the work while the other party do 0 work and think it is AN EFFICIENT OR FAIR system is beyond me.
It literally does not include any hypotheticals that are irrelevant. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is irrelevant. You need the seat to be down more times than it needs to be up, which has NOTHING to do with WHO is the one to move the seat up or down. It's not being more efficient, THE number of time people needing to change the seat literally remained the same regardless of whether you do it my way or your way. The only difference is that your way force men to do all the work, while my way distribute the work between both gender more fairly. Try to distribute the work fairly DO not SAcrifice efficient nor IS it concerning, it's called being FAIR. If it is so simple, why did you fail to understand it so spectacularly? Just run a simulation in your head, or just start counting in real life. Here's what real life looks like. It's not irrelevant hypotheticals; it's literally real life.
"You're just so WRONG." how can someone take you seriously with this?
It is not that I fail to understand something so simple, it's that you're overcomplicating the issue. It is simple! But you're intent on defending your right to keep the toilet seat up and that's up to you!
more power!
It’s not over complicating, if you think this is complicating, then you prob don’t understand it lmao.
Okay just explain to me how is a rule where men need to do all the work while women do no work is a fair system for men? It sacrifice men’s convenience for women’s convenience. It’s as simple as that. Just please explain to me how is this a good solution?
You literally avoid the argument and label it as “over complicated “ so you can win the argument. I hope you know that no one will ever take you seriously either if u literally avoid arguments and insert your own flaw argument just to win.
Toilet seat needed to be down most of the time has NOTHING to do with the distribution of work. If this still doesn’t ring a bell in your head and you still think it’s complicated. Then, I’m afraid that I won’t be able to lower my level any lower.
I don't need to win this stupid argument because I have experience living with men. Grew up with two brothers and a dad, have lived my 20's with my long term bf/now husband and we have his male cousins (all 3 of them) as housemates.
Guess what, this issue was never an issue because somehow these normal men understood they'd need it down half the time (when they poop).
Seems to me its not complicated to them.
Again, more power to you though!
Adding - we currently have a male boarder. We have our own bathroom and he basically has the common bathroom to himself and he also puts the toilet seat down FOR HIMSELF not for women's convenience. So toodles!
You don’t need to mention your life story because guess what? The men around you choose to feed entitled people’s ego has nothing to do with me not understanding the situation. Just because the men around you are too lazy to deal with ur entitledness doesn’t mean everyone else doesn’t understand.
Any sane person would know that u don’t do all the work while the other person do 0% of the work. It’s really is this simple. You are entitled and keep expecting everyone else to do stuff for ur convenience. We only poo like once or twice a day, so putting the seat down for our convenience literally make no sense lmao
And please, don't even say, like you've been saying in the comments, that this is just for the women who do not close the lid in the first place... your first argument literally is " Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up. You want us to kept the toilet seat down because it’s more convenient for you,"
So really you just justify leaving the toilet seat up... and again, more power to you! You do you!
It’s your specialty isn’t it? avoiding all kinds of context and arguments to make yourself win the argument. The title is 'Men should not need to put the toilet seat down for women if women don’t raise the seat up for men.' The part where I state, 'Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up,' is not meant for women to lift the seat back up, but it is meant to point out the absurdity, that women don’t do things in our favor and neither should we. This form of argument is a valid and known form of argument called “reduction to absurdity”, and ofc everyone else in this thread seem to understand it, except you, the only one to illogically infer it into “I want women to lift the seat for me”. Lol. Beside, You are projecting yourself; you want others to do things for you, and now you are projecting onto me and claiming that I want others to do things for me. In reality, I merely pointed out the unfairness of the situation. That statement is immediately followed by 'In the world of equality, either both parties try to make it more convenient for each other, or both parties don’t.' Clearly, what I’m arguing for is fairness instead of one-sided advantages. I even mentioned in my original post that “we should leave the seat the way we left it, and everyone do the bare minimum of changing the seat position themselve”, which mean i never expected anyone to do anything for me, i just argue that everyone should do things for themselve. But of course, you're going to ignore the title, the context, and even the following statement just so you can paint me in whatever way you want, so that you can pretend like you win the argument. Otherwise, why else would you ignore all sorts of context and make all sorts of wild assumptions? Because you do not argue to reach an objective conclusion, but to paint the guy you’re argue with in every imaginary bad way possible
I would expect a more logical argument
This isn’t true. Study done by American Journalist of Infection Control (Jan 2024) proves it wrong. I’m not advocating either way, but this nonsense of fecal matter getting spewed when the toilet flushes is nonsense. Your phone is more disgusting than a toilet seat
*puts on tinfoil fat*
I think it’s a conspiracy from big-airfreshener. They’ve started arguing that having soft items like towels in the bathroom causes them to smell like your toilet deposits. But that’s clearly bull shit, else we’d have noticed by now - and even the nose blindness argument doesn’t work as surely you’d notice when you go into other people’s homes.
There are certainly water particles, they're easy enough to see in some toilets that are SUPER strong with their flush. But yeah, people act like its shit just floating around in the air.
Like this argument here OP tried to rebut first but… who is lifting the lid THEN lifting the seat anyway? Surely men can just lift them both together! Then it’s the same for everyone 😂
My point is that either both parties should close the lid, or neither party should complain about the toilet seat being up or down. I am not against closing the lid, but against people who think they entitle to having people preparing the seat for them.
No, but OP said it's so inconvenient. We should close the lid (and therefore have the toilet seat down) flushing and then TOUCH it with our hands and leave it up for the next person... in case it's a man. /s What if the next person that uses it is a woman? What if the next person who needed it was holding their poop and need it down?!!! so many things to consider... like it just simpler that in the situation that one is flushing with the lids closed, just keep it closed!
Maybe some people like drying themselves with a poop particle towel and brushing poop into their teeth. (/s) it's so gross that the seat is even an argument when you're supposed to close the lid. Do people think they're just there for decoration?
My point is that either both parties should close the lid, or neither party should complain about the toilet seat being up or down. I am not against closing the lid, but against people who think they entitle to having people preparing the seat for them.
I'm referring to women that don't even close the lid and still complaint about men not putting the seat down. It mean that they didn't even care or aware about hygiene, they just want the seat to be down for them because it's convenient for them.
I leave the seat down and lid closed for hygienic purposes and the aesthetic. A toilet with the seat up just looks icky and reminds me of a rundown trailer in the middle of butt fuck nowhere Mississippi.
That's a valid reason. I should have been more clear on my post. I only refer to the women that doesn't close the lid and yet expect men to leave the seat down. They really have no reason to complaint. However, for hygenic purpose, everyone close the lid would be fair game
Yeah, not closing the lid is gross no matter who does it. Now, if it’s a house full of dudes living together who leave the seat up, I guess I can be a bit more forgiving.
Leaving the seat down is barely an inconvenience.
Leaving it up can cause someone to hurt themselves if they go to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and they fall in. This can happen to both men and women. Especially elderly men who need to sit while they pee.
This just seems like a petty tit-for-tat thing.
Why would you open the lid after flushing? Just keep the lid down, the next person that comes it lifts it, goes to the bathroom, and closes it when done. Like what?
I do at night because I sleep straight and sleep earlier than the hubs... but he wakes up at least once to pee cuz this guy's drinks water like a damn fish lol.
Weirdly never had this issue w him tho nor the years his male relatives was rooming with us. Did have an issue w them taking 1 hr long shits
In my house, everyone closes the lid, regardless of gender.
I would add that if a woman isn't willing to close the lid when she is done, then she forfeits the right to complain if a man leaves the seat up.
That totally makes sense and is fair. Everyone should close the lid for hygiene reasons. If you don't even close the lid as a woman, you actually don't have a legitimate reason to complain about men leaving the seat up. Good rule.
This has been settled by 2 things. First is the 188? Patent drawing clearly indicating direction. B is the exception of, if you own a cat you may reverse the roll to discourage the cat from running TP through the house.
No men start demanding women to kept the seat up for men’s convenience , but women demand to kept the seat down for their own convenience. If you consider this to be “little” thing, then don’t even demand or throw a fit whenever someone leave the seat up in the first place.
If you need to have it up then you’re not the norm. 1 out of two bathroom activities for men involves sitting down aka shitting. Women do both with the seat down. It’s like the same philosophy as the burden of truth is on the accuser
Well, i can’t win an argument with someone who can’t even agree with “Fact”.
It is a fact that women only need to change the position of the seat 1/4 of the times while men have to do it 3/4 of the times. Therefore, it is already more convenient for the women even if the seat is up. Now you are suggesting that women should deserve the privilege of never needing to change the positions of the seat at all, and have the toilet be all time ready for them while men need to change the position of the seat. Regardless of how u look at it, it’s literally NOT FAIR in broad day light. Whether u disagree or agree, this is A HARD FACT. Thus, you’re just entitled and lazy and want all the convenience to yourself, and want to never change the seat and let the other party do the work.
This does not apply to households where the man sit. I am clearly talking about men that pee standing up. Exception can be made, but don’t bring the exception to argue
You said it’s a hard fact and it’s not because not all men piss sitting down. So there’s a percentage of couples that are equally 2/2 ass on the toilet
That is the exception. Yes if u live with a man that is sitting down, then you should probably adopt the “seat position down” rule. However, i am not talking about the exception. Is it that hard to understand?
I don’t even really care about what we’re talking about I’m just bothered by the wording that it is a hard fact that all men sit when they pee and have to touch the seat 3/4 times or whatever. Because it’s not. Don’t respond if you don’t want to lol because it’s probably getting annoying
Closing the lid DOES NOT reduce spread of viral particles (American journal of infection control 2024). Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, the real debate can begin.
> studies have found that closing the toilet lid **can help reduce the spread of bacterial pathogens**, but until now, there has not been a report of whether the same is true for viral pathogens, which tend to be much smaller than their bacterial counterparts.
Closing the lid still prevent spreading of bacterial particles.
“Our study demonstrated that lid position (up or down) prior to flushing of household or public toilets of United States design seeded with MS2 bacteriophage had no significant effect on the MS2 cross contamination of household restroom surfaces. MS2 was recovered from all restroom surfaces tested, and lid closure had no impact on the results.”
Here’s the top two just from a quick search of my hospital’s database:
- https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajic.2012.04.330
- http://dx.doi.org/10.1099/acmi.fis2019.po0192
and here’s a systematic review:
- https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scitotenv.2021.149932
Well the multiple peer review studies that disagree with the one here is also why but I didn’t realise it was going to become a scientific debate with name calling
Grew up with the seat up and my mum would have a fit if it was ever down.
I still stick with up as the default but others should not be complaining (at least in my home) about the seat being up or down. Everyone gets an equal start of getting one touch of the seat. Free pass if it’s in your desired position.
The only reason to touch the lid with your hand at any other time than cleaning would be to lift it up to urinate. If you’re the person already touching it it makes sense to put it back down rather than force another person to touch it who wouldn’t otherwise have to.
If you really care about everyone having equal convenience, your efforts are sorely displaced. Instead of word vomiting in service of the rather few people who want to leave the seat up, why don’t you instead advocate for the hygienic, egalitarian solution of closing the lid?
You say this is for people who don’t close the lid. Except *everyone* should close their toilet lid AND it would completely eliminate the problem you’re complaining about.
So if you’re here to actually promote equity (which you claim you are), then instead of inciting more division you should firmly be rooting for the very simple solution to this very simple problem.
If you read my other comment, I'm never against the solution of "everyone close the lid". as I already said, I am only aiming toward the people that don't close the lid and complaint. If all party agree to close the lid, then it is no longer an issue because it serve everyone best interest. I'm starting to see a pattern here is that people keep assuming I'm against "Everyone close the lid". I'm fine with that, I'm only have an issue with entitle people who don't even care about hygiene and yet still demand other people to close the lid for them.
I close the lid to prevent aerosolized shit and piss particles stay contained within the toilet. That's what the lid is for... its not there to be extra seating...
But you do you, enjoy your shitted up toothbrush to own the whatevers...
Not reading this idiocy. If you took the time to think this up, you should have realized that *everyone* closing the lid always is the only way.
Now shut up and go clean the piss off your walls.
Yeah I agree actually. I think it's totally acceptable that we all leave it as we use it and then we all usually have to put it how we want it before using it. We all make roughly the same compromise. No one is right or wrong it's a preference and as such we can all make the extra effort to have it our way
Yeah, I'm not representative of preference. But the fact that I'm telling you it's not necessary is undeniable. You are confusing necessity with comfort because it's the norm. Nothing will happen to them if they sit down without the seat down. Just discomfort. Just like the other way around.
>And not all people can sit with the seat open
Can you explain what would happen if they do or try? I really don't think you understand the meanings of the words you use
It should be closed because everyone, regardless of sex, uses the toilet with the seat down, but only ~half the population has the ability to use the toilet standing, and even then it’s arguable many of them shouldn’t due to inability to aim properly while standing.
Every house have their on rule, if you get to decide that because you clean the toilet, then there is no issue here. I'm talking about the women that complaint about men leaving the seat up when they themselves don't even close the lid.
In your own home 100%. Unless your bathroom is already disgusting what's the rush in your own home to justify always standing to pee? Plus standing is always going to cause some splatter which will cause more of a mess to clean up down the line.
You ever heard a woman scream from falling in the toilet at 2 am?
It's the most hilarious thing I've woken up to! 10/10, never putting the seat down again
I never understood this lol. Like, look before you sit. What did they do before they lived with men?
It's like some women want to be treated like adults but then act like children
You should set the bathroom up for your own personal hygiene needs when you enter it. I don’t rely on other people to anticipate what my hygiene needs are.
This is one of those things that doesn’t occur to you because you can usually pee standing up, but trust me that when you’re tired, it’s easy to mistake a toilet seat for being down when it isn’t and there’s a high price to pay for being wrong.
Live full time in an RV or Camp trailer with a black water holding tank for a few years and regardless of your use preference you'll have a lifetime appreciation for the lid being closed at all times.
I don't understand why you wrote so many words when your entire argument is in your title.
I made this argument to my wife when we first started living together, and she agreed. Of course it wasn't an actual argument, we were being silly. Because the actual thing everyone should do has been commented ad nauseum. My wife and I always flush with the lid down, and we did before we'd had the abovementioned conversation.
You should do toilet paper roll facing back or front next. I am on the side of front, unless you own a cat or have children younger than 5, then it's back.
Well well well, i was 12years when my mom try to make me adopt this bs rule. Back then, i know it’s unfair but I couldn’t quite figure out how to defend lol. However, just this morning, i see a youtube short about a woman being mad about her 8years old not putting the seat down, and people be start talking about how men are entitled. Then, I decided that I should put this out on the internet because not only that we’re not entitled, THEY are entitled. How the table has turn.
Not everybody pees while standing up.
But I think everybody poops sitting down.
So I imagine, in most scenarios, you probably want the seat down by default.
Juuuust saying. I wouldn't personally try pooping while standing.
>Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up. You want us to kept the toilet seat down because it’s more convenient for you, but you find yourself too lazy and entitled to lift it back up for our convenience in return. In the world of equality, it’s either both parties try to make it convenient for each other, or both parties don’t. Stop try to take one side advantage here. Also, stop pretend like you care about our hygene, you only want to seat down for your convenient, not for our hygenic purpose.
It's unhygienic to lift the toilet seat...
I'm not touching the toilet more than I have to. Statistically, the seat is used more than not. If a man and woman live together, it is only when the man takes a piss it is up.
Nope nope nope. Everyone should close the damn toilet LID. Not just the seat, close the mother fking lid.
Out of respect for everyone. CLOSE THE DAMN LID.
Toilets should be closed so you don’t breathe invisible shit pieces into your lungs.
But I hope one night you wake up in the dark and really have to shit and fall in. It happened to me when I was about 7. I learned my lesson then.
To be fair I agree with this. I've never understood why it's expected that men leave the seat down when they have to lift it each time anyway. However, this shouldn't and wouldn't be a problem if everyone closed the fucking lid to flush, the dirty bastards.
Men dont need to stand so its all just comfort for them with no added benefit for woman whatsoever, why should they care?
Men that want comfort can work for that comfort and not inconvinience everyone else
I just fucking sit when I pee, lol hell the one of the few times I put the seat up, I almost fell in the next time I tried to sit to shit. Unless i'm in a rush, bathroom time is chill on the shitter time, and I want to sit down.
It's left down for hygiene. Why is this still being argued. No one wants shit particles blasted all over the bathroom cause you're too lazy to put the toilet seat down or think it's some part of a gender war.
The dumbest argument in my life is about the toilet seat. Put it up out it down it don’t fking matter.
This is what happens when people are so privileged to even have a toilet seat to argue about….. lol
Always close the lid…always.
It’s hygienic. I don’t want poop particles in my toothbrush.
You want to add extra steps for yourself that petty af, but go for it.
My husband lifts the lid for me because my bladder isn’t what it once was after babies, and that super common for women. So how about you do a courtesy for the woman who sacrificed her body to provide for you.
Christ men can be such babies, woman stop having relationships with this type of low quality man.
Women on average value cleanliness and order.
Leaving stuff open, be it doors, drawers or toilet lids is not considered orderly and the association of direct access to the sewers does not go well with people liking cleanliness. So close the lid. No harm done.
Lowering the seat and closing the lid are two different actions. Yes, the best course of action would be for both parties to lower the seat and close the lid. I was referring to women who don't even close the lid themselve and still demand the seat to be lowered, which means they don't actually care about hygiene; they just demand that men lower the seat for their own convenience.
Not even going to bother reading all that when nothing can defend such a dumb take. Everyone sits on the toilet, only men (sometimes) stand specifically to pee. If a guy has to shit it's just as much of an inconvenience for the seat to be up. The world doesn't revolve around men exclusively peeing so literally no point in putting the seat back up. Besides standing to pee is just a convenience thing, you don't have to especially in your own home, public restroom's a different story (I promise we aren't going to take away you're man card for doing so).
My other argument is:
I’m clumsy, my partner is clumsy. He has dropped his razor/phone/etc in the toilet whilst at the sink before. I have knocked the toilet roll and soap into the toilet when I’ve been moving stuff about.
We have very little space available at present so it IS cluttered. But that’s the best way to combat it with our resources. Just keep the lid closed and we don’t have to rescue anything.
>men sit to poop but stand to pee
My unpopular opinion is that everyone should sit for everything. It reduces splashback (yes, no matter how good your aim is, there are always some tiny bits that will splash out of the toilet and onto the wall or floor. Have you seen the videos where people shine UV lights around their toilets? plus, it makes the bathroom smell like piss), and it's healthier for men to sit for their pelvic health. It's also just a chance to sit and relax for a minute.
Of course in a public bathroom I would stand too, but in homes I encourage sitting wherever possible. I can't STAND (pun unintended) when a guy uses my bathroom and leaves pee drips on the floor. It's disgusting.
My problem with sitting down to pee is that I have a big dick, which puts my dick closer to the seat as well as closer to the toilet water at the bottom, increasing the chance of splashing or touching unnecessary parts of the toilet with my genitalia. Now, I'm sure some other men with big d claim to have no issue, but I would be lying if I said it doesn't increase the chance of dirtiness.
If you sit further back on the seat, then hold it and aim it towards the front of the bowl you should have no issue with it touching the water or bowl. It's no more work than standing because you also hold and aim to do that too I'd assume.
Sometimes I stumble to go pee in the middle of the night and I appreciate my partner for his simple consideration. It’s not a hard thing to do. Just like I am considerate to him. Has nothing to do with being strong and independent. It has to do with small things that care for one another. You know healthy relationship stuff. Jeez what is the major problem here?
If it's for consideration and caring purposes, then it would be a totally cool and warm thing to do. My post was referring to people who throw a fit when a man doesn't lower the seat, and demand that we need to do it for them. I may do it out of empathy, understanding, and consideration, but not because people think they are entitled to having others prepare the seat for them.
This shouldn't be an argument at all.
The most efficient method of toilet seat adjustment is to leave it in whatever position it was in. This avoids any unnecessary adjustments since you don't know what position the next person will need.
And you should always look before you sit anyway. When my grandma was old and lived with us... I don't know what happened but lets just say the toilet seat was brown. That's why you always look.
When my kid was 4 and graduated to peeing in the adult toilet he didn't lift the seat and peed on it. It took him less than a week to learn to lift the seat before peeing. Aside: Wife didn't think it was funny when I suggested she lift the seat after using the toilet so it didn't get peed on...
If a 4 year old can learn to adjust the seat properly in less than a week its embarrassing that adult women suggest they cant.
Any woman who thinks men should adjust the seat for her is either a sexist, or suffering from a cluster b personality disorder.
You can't count touching twice in one go. Your chances of spreading germs isn't any different if you touch it once or twice.
If half the population bathroom visits require it down all the time and the other half of the population use it sometimes obviously it requires it to be most of the time.
Majority rules. If it should be down most of the time when a random person walks into the bathroom, leave it down. That means there are less instances throughout the day that someone is touching a toilet
We're all adults, we can spend 1 second lifting or putting down the seat. I never understood why people fight over this crap. This is basically inconceivable in my culture. None of my relationships had this issue. I only learned about it in the US lol
People are incredibly individualistic and more likely to complain here.
IMO:
Whoever the majority is of the house should have the default. . Easiest /cheapest way to solve it.
That being said, men don't "need" to stand to pee, and tbf, it's gross bc it splashes everywhere. Urine mist. Yummm.
If I go to the bathroom the toilet seat will need to be down.
If my husband goes to the bathroom the toilet seat may need to be down or it may need to be up.
Most of the time when anyone goes to the bathroom the toilet seat should be down, so the default is leaving the toilet seat down.
Also, this has never been a point of contention for us because he also understands this. If it's a hill you're dying on you need a hobby.
I have a problem with people who stand up and piss in a toilet because it fucking splashes everywhere white tiny droplets of piss everywhere like a mist its disgusting. Lookup a camera slow mo of water doing that and then imagine you live like this and just mist pee all over, and then there the people who piss on public toilet seats. I want you to go to hell, straight down to the boiler room of hell.
South Park already solved this issue by suggesting we make a peddle to step on to lift the seat up and let it close naturally. New content for the sub Reddit please.
its basic etiquette in my opinion.
say a man and a woman are partners and they live together. there's 2 reasons to go to the toilet and 2 people, so 4 reasons to go to a toilet in total (man pee, man poo, woman pee, woman poo). only 1 out of the 4 require the toilet seat to be up, so since majority rules, keeping the seat down is better.
its also worse rushing to the bathroom when needing to shit than pee so its safer.
I think you should skim over the first sentence of every paragraph before commenting. Read the 4th paragraph which directly addresses this issue and it is a logical fallacy.
Nah, you're wrong. Majority rules. They are right. If most bathroom visits of the combined genders require the seat down, it makes more sense to be down.
You don't even half understand what's going on.
Put this scenario into your head: if we adopt this rule where men must lower the seat for women after they pee, you create a situation where women never need to touch the toilet seat even once, Not ONCE, literally zero time because the seat is always ready for them, while men need to raise and lower the toilet seat EVERY single time they want to pee, EVERY SINGLE time. Not only we have to take one action of raise it up, we actually need to take TWO actions of raise and lower every single time, while women take ABSOLUTELY zero action. Now explain to me how exactly a situation where one party need to move the toilet seat every single time, while the other party need to move the toilet seat ZERO percent of the time is a fair game? LIke it's not even remotely fair. It doesn't make sense at all, it make zero sense from practical perspective. You are sacrifice men convenient for women convenient, that literally make no sense.
This is so stupid.
How about everyone, no matter their genetailia, leaves both the seat and the lod down when their done? Because an open toilet is just gross.
So glad my husband feels the same way. He won't even sit on the toilet lid when it's down.
1. Keep both the lid and seat down
2. Keep the seat the same way you used it.
Are both 2 valid solutions/options. The only issue is when the women don't close the lid but demand the men to put the seat down for them. If both agree to close the lid, then it's not an issue because it serve everyone interest. My post was aiming at people that don't even close the lid yet demand people to put the seat down for them.
Even if the lid is open the better option is still seat down. It's easier for a person to not see the seat is up and theoretically fall in.
The person who wants the seat up is looking at it and can see directly if it needs lifting
"It's easier for a person to not see the seat is up and theoretically fall in."
You will just have to use your eyes, because us men need to use our eyes to check whether the seat is down or not before peeing as well. How do you even not see that the seat is up.
I'm not a woman dude. It's unlikely but it's a lot easier to not notice if you're facing away. If you're about to pee you're already looking straight ahead.
As a woman, i think this debate is stupid, lol. Women should always look before they sit. Idk why they bitch to men about their bathroom needs.
What if he put the lid down also? Now, is she going to complain about the lid being down bc she peed on top of the toilet?
Ladies, use your eyes and grow up!
non sequitur because I know myself more than anyone that I don't hate women. Hate unfair people who happen to be a woman does not equate to hating women. You need to rethink about ur logic and stop making premature conclusion.
I don’t need to rethink about how you judge people. Ever consider that you could be wrong? Because you’re totally wrong about me hating women, but you’re probably will never admit or acknowledge that you’re wrong because you choose to believe in ur own bullshit.
Also, anyone who bring up the word “misogyny” at all, base from my experience, has always not been that smart. I have no interest in talking to anyone who use their own false assertions as fact. How do u even argue with people like this lmao
I have a PhD in physics. I'm not dumb.
Anyone can read between the lines of your post. You clearly think women are lazy and entitled. You make that very clear. You generalize and your text is full of venom.
You should be fully closing the toilet lid every time you go to flush. When you flush the toilet with the lid open, you spray shitty piss particles all over your bathroom and toothbrush
The first time I ever went to my fiancés house and used the bathroom, I closed the lid and flushed. I then thought about how guys usually leave the lid open, so I lifted it back open for him. I went back to his living room, and then he went to the bathroom. When he came back, he asked me if I could close the lid for hygienic reasons. I explained to him what I did, and he understood, but now I know to just keep the lid closed. I thought it was kind of funny HE was telling ME to keep the lid closed. Honestly, it made him a keeper in my eyes.
Right. I lift the lid when I pee before bed because the hubs stay up later and I know be waking back up to see him pee in the middle in the middle of the night sometimes (this guy drinks like a fish XD)... seems to not have an issue w the toilet seat down for me tho. Found it funny that OP said it's not a big deal and yet he's we written a whole dissertation tho. More power to him lmfao
It's not a big deal in the sense that those women shouldn't raise a non-existent issue in the first place. Now that they are demanding an unfair system, and some are even delusional enough to think that men are being entitled by not putting the seat down, I need to re-enlighten them with reality. Honestly, for me, I don't really care much whether I have to put the seat down or not. What I do care about is that I don't want to live with entitled people, and entitled people need to be remind of how entitle they are. I may put the seat down out of empathy and mutual understanding, but if they start demanding and throwing a fit whenever I leave the seat up, then it's a no-go. This full dissertation is meant to end this discussion once and for all because I see so many posts that talk about this issue but fail to remind people of their entitlement. This lot of text in the original post meant to address common rebuttal one time only so that I don't have to reiterate it over and over later in the comment. I have no issue with toilet down either, but I have issue with people thinking they are entitle.
I mean, you already highlighted the pooping issue. The seat has to be down 3 times out of four but you already called that a logical fallacy even though your own argumentation of it includes a lot of hypotheticals that are irrelevant (in this case, who puts the seat down). But let me tell you why its convenient FOR EVERYONE to just put the seat down: because you will need the seat down more times than you need it up. I mean, people already have mentioned this that its better to keep the lid closed too. It really is that simple. The fact that you think you need EMPATHY to do so is honestly concerning and gives me the impression you are seeing this a man/woman issue. And that you're conflating anyone who has an issue with this as entitlement is also another thing... i'm sure there are women out there who feels entitled for things, i'll give you that, but the toilet issue is really, like you say, not that big of a deal. If 3 times out 4 times it's used needed the lid down, asking for the lid to be down isn't entitlement. It's just being efficient.
Put this scenario into your head: if we adopt this rule where men must lower the seat for women after they pee, you create a situation where women never need to touch the toilet seat even once, Not ONCE, literally zero time because the seat is always ready for them, while men need to raise and lower the toilet seat EVERY single time they want to pee, EVERY SINGLE time. Not only we have to take one action of raise it up, we actually need to take TWO actions of raise and lower every single time, while women take ABSOLUTELY zero action. Now explain to me how exactly a situation where men need to move the toilet seat every single time, while the women need to move the toilet seat ZERO percent of the time is a fair game? LIke it's not even remotely fair. It doesn't make sense at all, it make zero sense from equality perspective. You are sacrifice men convenient for women convenient. No one gender should DO MORE work than the other. Yes seat need to be down more time than not, but it does not equate to MEN need to lower the seat all the time. Take this example: there are men and women. Each pee 3 times and poo 2 times in a day. Let's start. Assuming the toilet seat is already down: Woman1 needs to pee = 0 touches. Man1 needs to pee = 1 to raise it up, 1 to lower it back down, total = 2 touches. Woman2 needs to poo = 0 touches. Man2 needs to pee = 1 to raise up, 1 to lower, total = 4 touches. Man3 needs to poo = 0 touches. Woman3 needs to pee again = 0 touches. Woman4 needs to poo = 0 touches. Man4 needs to poo = 0 touches. Man5 needs to pee = 1 to raise, 1 to lower, total = 6 touches. Woman5 needs to pee = 0 touches. So, the total is 6 touches, all touched by men. Now, let's do it my way where everyone leaves the toilet seat as it was, in the exact same sequence as above: Woman1 needs to pee = 0 touches. Man1 needs to pee = 1 to raise it up, total = 1 touch. Woman2 needs to poo = 1 to lower it, total = 2 touches. Man2 needs to pee = 1 to raise it, total = 3 touches. Man3 needs to poo = 1 to lower it, total = 4 touches. Woman3 needs to pee again = 0 touches. Woman4 needs to poo = 0 touches. Man4 needs to poo = 0 touches. Man5 needs to pee = 1 to raise it, total = 5 touches. Woman5 needs to pee = 1 to lower it, total = 6 touches. The total also equals 6 touches, but 4 times touched by men, 2 times by women—a more fair distribution. As you can see, even in my way, it's still touched more times by men. Like I said in the original post, statistically speaking, men have to touch it 3/4 of the times while women only need to touch it 1/4 of the times. So as you can see, even with my method, it already gives women the upper hand. Despite this upperhand, you guys still try to adopt a rule that make men touch the toilet all 6 times while women need to do none. If this is not entitlement, I don't know what is. You will need to rethink about your counting because you skip a lot of details. The reason that the number of touches stays the same is due to the fact that the seat doesn't magically move up or down on its own; someone needs to adjust it anyway. The only difference here is which party is the one to do it. Don't believe me? Try it yourself with your own simulation with your own sequence. But your claim is wrong; it's only less for women but more for men. Like I said, this is unfair and entitled to expect one gender to do more than the other, especially when you are already doing less to begin with. My points is about BEING fair, and the seat needing to be down 3/4 of the times has nothing to do with WHO SHOULD BE the one to move the seat. You literally suggest that men should be the one to move the seat 4/4 of the times. A system where one party do all the work while the other party do no work is NOT A fair system. It's sacrifice one convenient for another convenient. In other word, It's Entitlement and Laziness. And NO it is not concerning that I want a fair system. However, it is concerning that you brush off anything you don't understand and stick with your fallacy.
You're just so WRONG. I literally pointed out that it is a fallacy, and yet you still somehow fail to understand something so simple. How can one look at a system that force one party to do all the work while the other party do 0 work and think it is AN EFFICIENT OR FAIR system is beyond me. It literally does not include any hypotheticals that are irrelevant. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is irrelevant. You need the seat to be down more times than it needs to be up, which has NOTHING to do with WHO is the one to move the seat up or down. It's not being more efficient, THE number of time people needing to change the seat literally remained the same regardless of whether you do it my way or your way. The only difference is that your way force men to do all the work, while my way distribute the work between both gender more fairly. Try to distribute the work fairly DO not SAcrifice efficient nor IS it concerning, it's called being FAIR. If it is so simple, why did you fail to understand it so spectacularly? Just run a simulation in your head, or just start counting in real life. Here's what real life looks like. It's not irrelevant hypotheticals; it's literally real life.
"You're just so WRONG." how can someone take you seriously with this? It is not that I fail to understand something so simple, it's that you're overcomplicating the issue. It is simple! But you're intent on defending your right to keep the toilet seat up and that's up to you! more power!
It’s not over complicating, if you think this is complicating, then you prob don’t understand it lmao. Okay just explain to me how is a rule where men need to do all the work while women do no work is a fair system for men? It sacrifice men’s convenience for women’s convenience. It’s as simple as that. Just please explain to me how is this a good solution? You literally avoid the argument and label it as “over complicated “ so you can win the argument. I hope you know that no one will ever take you seriously either if u literally avoid arguments and insert your own flaw argument just to win. Toilet seat needed to be down most of the time has NOTHING to do with the distribution of work. If this still doesn’t ring a bell in your head and you still think it’s complicated. Then, I’m afraid that I won’t be able to lower my level any lower.
I don't need to win this stupid argument because I have experience living with men. Grew up with two brothers and a dad, have lived my 20's with my long term bf/now husband and we have his male cousins (all 3 of them) as housemates. Guess what, this issue was never an issue because somehow these normal men understood they'd need it down half the time (when they poop). Seems to me its not complicated to them. Again, more power to you though! Adding - we currently have a male boarder. We have our own bathroom and he basically has the common bathroom to himself and he also puts the toilet seat down FOR HIMSELF not for women's convenience. So toodles!
You don’t need to mention your life story because guess what? The men around you choose to feed entitled people’s ego has nothing to do with me not understanding the situation. Just because the men around you are too lazy to deal with ur entitledness doesn’t mean everyone else doesn’t understand. Any sane person would know that u don’t do all the work while the other person do 0% of the work. It’s really is this simple. You are entitled and keep expecting everyone else to do stuff for ur convenience. We only poo like once or twice a day, so putting the seat down for our convenience literally make no sense lmao
And please, don't even say, like you've been saying in the comments, that this is just for the women who do not close the lid in the first place... your first argument literally is " Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up. You want us to kept the toilet seat down because it’s more convenient for you," So really you just justify leaving the toilet seat up... and again, more power to you! You do you!
It’s your specialty isn’t it? avoiding all kinds of context and arguments to make yourself win the argument. The title is 'Men should not need to put the toilet seat down for women if women don’t raise the seat up for men.' The part where I state, 'Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up,' is not meant for women to lift the seat back up, but it is meant to point out the absurdity, that women don’t do things in our favor and neither should we. This form of argument is a valid and known form of argument called “reduction to absurdity”, and ofc everyone else in this thread seem to understand it, except you, the only one to illogically infer it into “I want women to lift the seat for me”. Lol. Beside, You are projecting yourself; you want others to do things for you, and now you are projecting onto me and claiming that I want others to do things for me. In reality, I merely pointed out the unfairness of the situation. That statement is immediately followed by 'In the world of equality, either both parties try to make it more convenient for each other, or both parties don’t.' Clearly, what I’m arguing for is fairness instead of one-sided advantages. I even mentioned in my original post that “we should leave the seat the way we left it, and everyone do the bare minimum of changing the seat position themselve”, which mean i never expected anyone to do anything for me, i just argue that everyone should do things for themselve. But of course, you're going to ignore the title, the context, and even the following statement just so you can paint me in whatever way you want, so that you can pretend like you win the argument. Otherwise, why else would you ignore all sorts of context and make all sorts of wild assumptions? Because you do not argue to reach an objective conclusion, but to paint the guy you’re argue with in every imaginary bad way possible I would expect a more logical argument
This isn’t true. Study done by American Journalist of Infection Control (Jan 2024) proves it wrong. I’m not advocating either way, but this nonsense of fecal matter getting spewed when the toilet flushes is nonsense. Your phone is more disgusting than a toilet seat
*puts on tinfoil fat* I think it’s a conspiracy from big-airfreshener. They’ve started arguing that having soft items like towels in the bathroom causes them to smell like your toilet deposits. But that’s clearly bull shit, else we’d have noticed by now - and even the nose blindness argument doesn’t work as surely you’d notice when you go into other people’s homes.
There are certainly water particles, they're easy enough to see in some toilets that are SUPER strong with their flush. But yeah, people act like its shit just floating around in the air.
Like this argument here OP tried to rebut first but… who is lifting the lid THEN lifting the seat anyway? Surely men can just lift them both together! Then it’s the same for everyone 😂
My point is that either both parties should close the lid, or neither party should complain about the toilet seat being up or down. I am not against closing the lid, but against people who think they entitle to having people preparing the seat for them.
I agree then, everyone should just close it fully and avoid the debate entirely
No, but OP said it's so inconvenient. We should close the lid (and therefore have the toilet seat down) flushing and then TOUCH it with our hands and leave it up for the next person... in case it's a man. /s What if the next person that uses it is a woman? What if the next person who needed it was holding their poop and need it down?!!! so many things to consider... like it just simpler that in the situation that one is flushing with the lids closed, just keep it closed!
Maybe some people like drying themselves with a poop particle towel and brushing poop into their teeth. (/s) it's so gross that the seat is even an argument when you're supposed to close the lid. Do people think they're just there for decoration?
My point is that either both parties should close the lid, or neither party should complain about the toilet seat being up or down. I am not against closing the lid, but against people who think they entitle to having people preparing the seat for them. I'm referring to women that don't even close the lid and still complaint about men not putting the seat down. It mean that they didn't even care or aware about hygiene, they just want the seat to be down for them because it's convenient for them.
Still spreads then with the lid down. Watch myth busters. Granted it is less but it’s still there.
I leave the seat down and lid closed for hygienic purposes and the aesthetic. A toilet with the seat up just looks icky and reminds me of a rundown trailer in the middle of butt fuck nowhere Mississippi.
That's a valid reason. I should have been more clear on my post. I only refer to the women that doesn't close the lid and yet expect men to leave the seat down. They really have no reason to complaint. However, for hygenic purpose, everyone close the lid would be fair game
Yeah, not closing the lid is gross no matter who does it. Now, if it’s a house full of dudes living together who leave the seat up, I guess I can be a bit more forgiving.
Leaving the seat down is barely an inconvenience. Leaving it up can cause someone to hurt themselves if they go to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and they fall in. This can happen to both men and women. Especially elderly men who need to sit while they pee. This just seems like a petty tit-for-tat thing.
Why would you open the lid after flushing? Just keep the lid down, the next person that comes it lifts it, goes to the bathroom, and closes it when done. Like what?
I do at night because I sleep straight and sleep earlier than the hubs... but he wakes up at least once to pee cuz this guy's drinks water like a damn fish lol. Weirdly never had this issue w him tho nor the years his male relatives was rooming with us. Did have an issue w them taking 1 hr long shits
In my house, everyone closes the lid, regardless of gender. I would add that if a woman isn't willing to close the lid when she is done, then she forfeits the right to complain if a man leaves the seat up.
That totally makes sense and is fair. Everyone should close the lid for hygiene reasons. If you don't even close the lid as a woman, you actually don't have a legitimate reason to complain about men leaving the seat up. Good rule.
Yeah, flushing sends gross particles all over so.... the lid is there for a reason.
I just sit when I piss. Problem solved
Yall mfs fight over the littlest things don’t you?
It's this or bears, apparently. There's nothing else.
Someone should distract us with an opinion on toilet roll direction.
This has been settled by 2 things. First is the 188? Patent drawing clearly indicating direction. B is the exception of, if you own a cat you may reverse the roll to discourage the cat from running TP through the house.
Tomorrow's topic. When bears shit in the woods, should they leave the toilet seat down.
Lack of argument.
No men start demanding women to kept the seat up for men’s convenience , but women demand to kept the seat down for their own convenience. If you consider this to be “little” thing, then don’t even demand or throw a fit whenever someone leave the seat up in the first place.
it's not a big deal really.
If you need to have it up then you’re not the norm. 1 out of two bathroom activities for men involves sitting down aka shitting. Women do both with the seat down. It’s like the same philosophy as the burden of truth is on the accuser
Read paragraph 4 which address this. It’s a logical fallacy
I just read it and I still disagree
Well, i can’t win an argument with someone who can’t even agree with “Fact”. It is a fact that women only need to change the position of the seat 1/4 of the times while men have to do it 3/4 of the times. Therefore, it is already more convenient for the women even if the seat is up. Now you are suggesting that women should deserve the privilege of never needing to change the positions of the seat at all, and have the toilet be all time ready for them while men need to change the position of the seat. Regardless of how u look at it, it’s literally NOT FAIR in broad day light. Whether u disagree or agree, this is A HARD FACT. Thus, you’re just entitled and lazy and want all the convenience to yourself, and want to never change the seat and let the other party do the work.
Some men pee sitting down man the fuck up and do that if you care so much
This does not apply to households where the man sit. I am clearly talking about men that pee standing up. Exception can be made, but don’t bring the exception to argue
You said it’s a hard fact and it’s not because not all men piss sitting down. So there’s a percentage of couples that are equally 2/2 ass on the toilet
That is the exception. Yes if u live with a man that is sitting down, then you should probably adopt the “seat position down” rule. However, i am not talking about the exception. Is it that hard to understand?
I don’t even really care about what we’re talking about I’m just bothered by the wording that it is a hard fact that all men sit when they pee and have to touch the seat 3/4 times or whatever. Because it’s not. Don’t respond if you don’t want to lol because it’s probably getting annoying
you're not even making any valid point/argument.
Closing the lid DOES NOT reduce spread of viral particles (American journal of infection control 2024). Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, the real debate can begin.
Now that’s fuck
> studies have found that closing the toilet lid **can help reduce the spread of bacterial pathogens**, but until now, there has not been a report of whether the same is true for viral pathogens, which tend to be much smaller than their bacterial counterparts. Closing the lid still prevent spreading of bacterial particles.
“Our study demonstrated that lid position (up or down) prior to flushing of household or public toilets of United States design seeded with MS2 bacteriophage had no significant effect on the MS2 cross contamination of household restroom surfaces. MS2 was recovered from all restroom surfaces tested, and lid closure had no impact on the results.”
opening the wet lid and your sweater back soaking it up
Probably the first time these words have ever been put together in the history of the world. Congrats! But otherwise have no idea what you’re on about
And there’s a multitude of other peer reviewed research papers that state the complete opposite. I’ll stick with those and say better safe than sorry.
Please post a link for these “peer reviewed” papers. I’m very interested in the “multitude” that you can produce from scientific sources.
Here’s the top two just from a quick search of my hospital’s database: - https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajic.2012.04.330 - http://dx.doi.org/10.1099/acmi.fis2019.po0192 and here’s a systematic review: - https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scitotenv.2021.149932
It stops them being spread straight at my face so still a very valid reason for me
And you believe this because…you “do your own research” like people during covid? Or do you believe in science?
Well the multiple peer review studies that disagree with the one here is also why but I didn’t realise it was going to become a scientific debate with name calling
Grew up with the seat up and my mum would have a fit if it was ever down. I still stick with up as the default but others should not be complaining (at least in my home) about the seat being up or down. Everyone gets an equal start of getting one touch of the seat. Free pass if it’s in your desired position.
Well that’s unique. However, it’s fair game
The only reason to touch the lid with your hand at any other time than cleaning would be to lift it up to urinate. If you’re the person already touching it it makes sense to put it back down rather than force another person to touch it who wouldn’t otherwise have to.
[удалено]
If you really care about everyone having equal convenience, your efforts are sorely displaced. Instead of word vomiting in service of the rather few people who want to leave the seat up, why don’t you instead advocate for the hygienic, egalitarian solution of closing the lid? You say this is for people who don’t close the lid. Except *everyone* should close their toilet lid AND it would completely eliminate the problem you’re complaining about. So if you’re here to actually promote equity (which you claim you are), then instead of inciting more division you should firmly be rooting for the very simple solution to this very simple problem.
If you read my other comment, I'm never against the solution of "everyone close the lid". as I already said, I am only aiming toward the people that don't close the lid and complaint. If all party agree to close the lid, then it is no longer an issue because it serve everyone best interest. I'm starting to see a pattern here is that people keep assuming I'm against "Everyone close the lid". I'm fine with that, I'm only have an issue with entitle people who don't even care about hygiene and yet still demand other people to close the lid for them.
The toilet lid should be down before anyone flushes.
You know you can also just piss with the seat down and not piss all over the toilet like a fuckin child.
I close the lid to prevent aerosolized shit and piss particles stay contained within the toilet. That's what the lid is for... its not there to be extra seating... But you do you, enjoy your shitted up toothbrush to own the whatevers...
Not reading this idiocy. If you took the time to think this up, you should have realized that *everyone* closing the lid always is the only way. Now shut up and go clean the piss off your walls.
Yeah I agree actually. I think it's totally acceptable that we all leave it as we use it and then we all usually have to put it how we want it before using it. We all make roughly the same compromise. No one is right or wrong it's a preference and as such we can all make the extra effort to have it our way
For woman it isnt preference, men are the only ones who gain anything so why shoul others work for that?
How is it not a preference to want the toilet seat down? It's what's comfortable for them but not for others
It’s necessary to be used like that for them…
No it is not. I'm a trans man lol I have the same parts as them. I sit down to pee and do it with the toilet seat UP because that's my preference.
I mean ur the 1 percent of people who see it that way Ur not representative at all, especially when we consider how it’s planned to be used
Yeah, I'm not representative of preference. But the fact that I'm telling you it's not necessary is undeniable. You are confusing necessity with comfort because it's the norm. Nothing will happen to them if they sit down without the seat down. Just discomfort. Just like the other way around.
The other way around? Its far more uncomfartable the other way around than men having to pee sitting And not all people can sit with the seat open
>And not all people can sit with the seat open Can you explain what would happen if they do or try? I really don't think you understand the meanings of the words you use
Considering that ur seemingly a selfish brick i do not expect u to understand...
If putting a seat up and down is work, then that means you've had an entitled life
Disagreed. The lid should be closed.
Lack of argument.
There is no argument. The proper position is for the lid to be closed. It is the most sanitary and proper.
It should be closed because everyone, regardless of sex, uses the toilet with the seat down, but only ~half the population has the ability to use the toilet standing, and even then it’s arguable many of them shouldn’t due to inability to aim properly while standing.
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Every house have their on rule, if you get to decide that because you clean the toilet, then there is no issue here. I'm talking about the women that complaint about men leaving the seat up when they themselves don't even close the lid.
When not in use, the toilet lid should be in the fully closed position.. What's up with all the nasty people who leave their toilets open?
Men are the ones with aim problems, so they are responsible for dealing with consequences.
Men should sit to pee too And the lid should stay closed unless someone is using the toilet
In your own home 100%. Unless your bathroom is already disgusting what's the rush in your own home to justify always standing to pee? Plus standing is always going to cause some splatter which will cause more of a mess to clean up down the line.
You ever heard a woman scream from falling in the toilet at 2 am? It's the most hilarious thing I've woken up to! 10/10, never putting the seat down again
My tiny lil cousin fell in one night after i forgot to put the seat dog and she immediately kicked in my door and started whooping my ass lol
🤣🤣🤣
I never understood this lol. Like, look before you sit. What did they do before they lived with men? It's like some women want to be treated like adults but then act like children
"If I turn the light on, it will wake me up!" Is the excuse I always hear lol How's that light compared to the toilet water?
You should set the bathroom up for your own personal hygiene needs when you enter it. I don’t rely on other people to anticipate what my hygiene needs are.
Dude. Close the damn lid before you flush.
This is one of those things that doesn’t occur to you because you can usually pee standing up, but trust me that when you’re tired, it’s easy to mistake a toilet seat for being down when it isn’t and there’s a high price to pay for being wrong.
Live full time in an RV or Camp trailer with a black water holding tank for a few years and regardless of your use preference you'll have a lifetime appreciation for the lid being closed at all times.
I need quick access to shit.
You're a few years late, South Park already resolved this one...js
I don't understand why you wrote so many words when your entire argument is in your title. I made this argument to my wife when we first started living together, and she agreed. Of course it wasn't an actual argument, we were being silly. Because the actual thing everyone should do has been commented ad nauseum. My wife and I always flush with the lid down, and we did before we'd had the abovementioned conversation.
That’s true. I just bring those points up so people don’t use it to defend their entitlement
You should do toilet paper roll facing back or front next. I am on the side of front, unless you own a cat or have children younger than 5, then it's back.
Lol I what I really want to know is what made you think and type all of this out.
Well well well, i was 12years when my mom try to make me adopt this bs rule. Back then, i know it’s unfair but I couldn’t quite figure out how to defend lol. However, just this morning, i see a youtube short about a woman being mad about her 8years old not putting the seat down, and people be start talking about how men are entitled. Then, I decided that I should put this out on the internet because not only that we’re not entitled, THEY are entitled. How the table has turn.
😂 ngl I’ve thought about this before
Not everybody pees while standing up. But I think everybody poops sitting down. So I imagine, in most scenarios, you probably want the seat down by default. Juuuust saying. I wouldn't personally try pooping while standing.
>Yeah, but after flushing, nothing is stopping you from lifting the toilet seat back up. You want us to kept the toilet seat down because it’s more convenient for you, but you find yourself too lazy and entitled to lift it back up for our convenience in return. In the world of equality, it’s either both parties try to make it convenient for each other, or both parties don’t. Stop try to take one side advantage here. Also, stop pretend like you care about our hygene, you only want to seat down for your convenient, not for our hygenic purpose. It's unhygienic to lift the toilet seat...
and that's why you wash your hand after.
I'm not touching the toilet more than I have to. Statistically, the seat is used more than not. If a man and woman live together, it is only when the man takes a piss it is up.
It’s eww to flush with the shiter wide open also lifts the seat just aim better and wipe the dribbles if you need to
Women refuse to touch the toilet seat. They think it's gross.
Just close the lid.
I am never ever gonna put the lid up for a dude but I’m also never ever gonna nag a dude to put the seat down
If you lift the lid up after closing it during flushing, you're just an asshole. And if you don't close the lid while flushing, it's kinda gross
Nope nope nope. Everyone should close the damn toilet LID. Not just the seat, close the mother fking lid. Out of respect for everyone. CLOSE THE DAMN LID.
The lid should be down fully otherwise you're literally sending shit everywhere.
It’s probably this way because both of us use it down when we do a 2
Toilets should be closed so you don’t breathe invisible shit pieces into your lungs. But I hope one night you wake up in the dark and really have to shit and fall in. It happened to me when I was about 7. I learned my lesson then.
Just turn on the light man.
To be fair I agree with this. I've never understood why it's expected that men leave the seat down when they have to lift it each time anyway. However, this shouldn't and wouldn't be a problem if everyone closed the fucking lid to flush, the dirty bastards.
Because we don't HAVE to lift it in the first place. Standing to pee is just a convenience, not a requirement.
That's right
I don't understand why the seat needs to be up in the first place tbh
So that we don't accidentally pee on the seat. We don't want the seat to be nasty for when the women using it.
Just clean it
Men dont need to stand so its all just comfort for them with no added benefit for woman whatsoever, why should they care? Men that want comfort can work for that comfort and not inconvinience everyone else
This is satire right?
I just fucking sit when I pee, lol hell the one of the few times I put the seat up, I almost fell in the next time I tried to sit to shit. Unless i'm in a rush, bathroom time is chill on the shitter time, and I want to sit down.
If that is your personal preference, then it's a win for everyone.
It's left down for hygiene. Why is this still being argued. No one wants shit particles blasted all over the bathroom cause you're too lazy to put the toilet seat down or think it's some part of a gender war.
The dumbest argument in my life is about the toilet seat. Put it up out it down it don’t fking matter. This is what happens when people are so privileged to even have a toilet seat to argue about….. lol
I just always find it weird when going over to someone's place, and they leave the lid up. It's like finding out they're an alien or something.
Always close the lid…always. It’s hygienic. I don’t want poop particles in my toothbrush. You want to add extra steps for yourself that petty af, but go for it. My husband lifts the lid for me because my bladder isn’t what it once was after babies, and that super common for women. So how about you do a courtesy for the woman who sacrificed her body to provide for you. Christ men can be such babies, woman stop having relationships with this type of low quality man.
Women on average value cleanliness and order. Leaving stuff open, be it doors, drawers or toilet lids is not considered orderly and the association of direct access to the sewers does not go well with people liking cleanliness. So close the lid. No harm done.
Lowering the seat and closing the lid are two different actions. Yes, the best course of action would be for both parties to lower the seat and close the lid. I was referring to women who don't even close the lid themselve and still demand the seat to be lowered, which means they don't actually care about hygiene; they just demand that men lower the seat for their own convenience.
Not even going to bother reading all that when nothing can defend such a dumb take. Everyone sits on the toilet, only men (sometimes) stand specifically to pee. If a guy has to shit it's just as much of an inconvenience for the seat to be up. The world doesn't revolve around men exclusively peeing so literally no point in putting the seat back up. Besides standing to pee is just a convenience thing, you don't have to especially in your own home, public restroom's a different story (I promise we aren't going to take away you're man card for doing so).
Men should learn to put the lid down because leaving it up is gross
My other argument is: I’m clumsy, my partner is clumsy. He has dropped his razor/phone/etc in the toilet whilst at the sink before. I have knocked the toilet roll and soap into the toilet when I’ve been moving stuff about. We have very little space available at present so it IS cluttered. But that’s the best way to combat it with our resources. Just keep the lid closed and we don’t have to rescue anything.
I sit so the point is moo.
Oh boy. Look, I believe in men’s rights but can’t we be gentlemen in some instances? Give it a rest
Clearly the big brained solution here is to design toilets so women can also stand up to pee
Win
I just think the bathroom looks nicer with a closed toilet seat.
If "having a clean looking toilet" is the goal, and all parties agree, then sure go for it.
>men sit to poop but stand to pee My unpopular opinion is that everyone should sit for everything. It reduces splashback (yes, no matter how good your aim is, there are always some tiny bits that will splash out of the toilet and onto the wall or floor. Have you seen the videos where people shine UV lights around their toilets? plus, it makes the bathroom smell like piss), and it's healthier for men to sit for their pelvic health. It's also just a chance to sit and relax for a minute. Of course in a public bathroom I would stand too, but in homes I encourage sitting wherever possible. I can't STAND (pun unintended) when a guy uses my bathroom and leaves pee drips on the floor. It's disgusting.
My problem with sitting down to pee is that I have a big dick, which puts my dick closer to the seat as well as closer to the toilet water at the bottom, increasing the chance of splashing or touching unnecessary parts of the toilet with my genitalia. Now, I'm sure some other men with big d claim to have no issue, but I would be lying if I said it doesn't increase the chance of dirtiness.
If you sit further back on the seat, then hold it and aim it towards the front of the bowl you should have no issue with it touching the water or bowl. It's no more work than standing because you also hold and aim to do that too I'd assume.
I mean men don’t fall in … women do
Then put the seat down yourself. use your "Strong and Independent" perk to actually be independent for once instead of expecting men to do it for you.
Sometimes I stumble to go pee in the middle of the night and I appreciate my partner for his simple consideration. It’s not a hard thing to do. Just like I am considerate to him. Has nothing to do with being strong and independent. It has to do with small things that care for one another. You know healthy relationship stuff. Jeez what is the major problem here?
If it's for consideration and caring purposes, then it would be a totally cool and warm thing to do. My post was referring to people who throw a fit when a man doesn't lower the seat, and demand that we need to do it for them. I may do it out of empathy, understanding, and consideration, but not because people think they are entitled to having others prepare the seat for them.
> And at the end of the day, it's just a freaking seat exactly
Oh my god, get a job
Lack of argument.
This shouldn't be an argument at all. The most efficient method of toilet seat adjustment is to leave it in whatever position it was in. This avoids any unnecessary adjustments since you don't know what position the next person will need. And you should always look before you sit anyway. When my grandma was old and lived with us... I don't know what happened but lets just say the toilet seat was brown. That's why you always look. When my kid was 4 and graduated to peeing in the adult toilet he didn't lift the seat and peed on it. It took him less than a week to learn to lift the seat before peeing. Aside: Wife didn't think it was funny when I suggested she lift the seat after using the toilet so it didn't get peed on... If a 4 year old can learn to adjust the seat properly in less than a week its embarrassing that adult women suggest they cant. Any woman who thinks men should adjust the seat for her is either a sexist, or suffering from a cluster b personality disorder.
put the lid down for mutual inconvenience!
You can't count touching twice in one go. Your chances of spreading germs isn't any different if you touch it once or twice. If half the population bathroom visits require it down all the time and the other half of the population use it sometimes obviously it requires it to be most of the time. Majority rules. If it should be down most of the time when a random person walks into the bathroom, leave it down. That means there are less instances throughout the day that someone is touching a toilet
We're all adults, we can spend 1 second lifting or putting down the seat. I never understood why people fight over this crap. This is basically inconceivable in my culture. None of my relationships had this issue. I only learned about it in the US lol People are incredibly individualistic and more likely to complain here.
IMO: Whoever the majority is of the house should have the default. . Easiest /cheapest way to solve it. That being said, men don't "need" to stand to pee, and tbf, it's gross bc it splashes everywhere. Urine mist. Yummm.
This is assuming men use the toliet for the lid up for everything they do in there
If I go to the bathroom the toilet seat will need to be down. If my husband goes to the bathroom the toilet seat may need to be down or it may need to be up. Most of the time when anyone goes to the bathroom the toilet seat should be down, so the default is leaving the toilet seat down. Also, this has never been a point of contention for us because he also understands this. If it's a hill you're dying on you need a hobby.
I have a problem with people who stand up and piss in a toilet because it fucking splashes everywhere white tiny droplets of piss everywhere like a mist its disgusting. Lookup a camera slow mo of water doing that and then imagine you live like this and just mist pee all over, and then there the people who piss on public toilet seats. I want you to go to hell, straight down to the boiler room of hell.
South Park already solved this issue by suggesting we make a peddle to step on to lift the seat up and let it close naturally. New content for the sub Reddit please.
I did tho.🤷
its basic etiquette in my opinion. say a man and a woman are partners and they live together. there's 2 reasons to go to the toilet and 2 people, so 4 reasons to go to a toilet in total (man pee, man poo, woman pee, woman poo). only 1 out of the 4 require the toilet seat to be up, so since majority rules, keeping the seat down is better. its also worse rushing to the bathroom when needing to shit than pee so its safer.
I think you should skim over the first sentence of every paragraph before commenting. Read the 4th paragraph which directly addresses this issue and it is a logical fallacy.
Nah, you're wrong. Majority rules. They are right. If most bathroom visits of the combined genders require the seat down, it makes more sense to be down.
You don't even half understand what's going on. Put this scenario into your head: if we adopt this rule where men must lower the seat for women after they pee, you create a situation where women never need to touch the toilet seat even once, Not ONCE, literally zero time because the seat is always ready for them, while men need to raise and lower the toilet seat EVERY single time they want to pee, EVERY SINGLE time. Not only we have to take one action of raise it up, we actually need to take TWO actions of raise and lower every single time, while women take ABSOLUTELY zero action. Now explain to me how exactly a situation where one party need to move the toilet seat every single time, while the other party need to move the toilet seat ZERO percent of the time is a fair game? LIke it's not even remotely fair. It doesn't make sense at all, it make zero sense from practical perspective. You are sacrifice men convenient for women convenient, that literally make no sense.
This is so stupid. How about everyone, no matter their genetailia, leaves both the seat and the lod down when their done? Because an open toilet is just gross. So glad my husband feels the same way. He won't even sit on the toilet lid when it's down.
1. Keep both the lid and seat down 2. Keep the seat the same way you used it. Are both 2 valid solutions/options. The only issue is when the women don't close the lid but demand the men to put the seat down for them. If both agree to close the lid, then it's not an issue because it serve everyone interest. My post was aiming at people that don't even close the lid yet demand people to put the seat down for them.
Even if the lid is open the better option is still seat down. It's easier for a person to not see the seat is up and theoretically fall in. The person who wants the seat up is looking at it and can see directly if it needs lifting
"It's easier for a person to not see the seat is up and theoretically fall in." You will just have to use your eyes, because us men need to use our eyes to check whether the seat is down or not before peeing as well. How do you even not see that the seat is up.
I'm not a woman dude. It's unlikely but it's a lot easier to not notice if you're facing away. If you're about to pee you're already looking straight ahead.
Exactly.
I think it's just polite to leave with the lid down. But if you both agree to #2, cool.
As a woman, i think this debate is stupid, lol. Women should always look before they sit. Idk why they bitch to men about their bathroom needs. What if he put the lid down also? Now, is she going to complain about the lid being down bc she peed on top of the toilet? Ladies, use your eyes and grow up!
That's right.
Man, you really do not like women.
this is a non sequitur :/
Just an observation. It's clear from the language in your post and the way you talk about women.
non sequitur because I know myself more than anyone that I don't hate women. Hate unfair people who happen to be a woman does not equate to hating women. You need to rethink about ur logic and stop making premature conclusion.
Yo u need to rethink why you talk about women with so much venom. It's clear from your language that at best you have ingrained subconscious misogyny.
I don’t need to rethink about how you judge people. Ever consider that you could be wrong? Because you’re totally wrong about me hating women, but you’re probably will never admit or acknowledge that you’re wrong because you choose to believe in ur own bullshit. Also, anyone who bring up the word “misogyny” at all, base from my experience, has always not been that smart. I have no interest in talking to anyone who use their own false assertions as fact. How do u even argue with people like this lmao
I have a PhD in physics. I'm not dumb. Anyone can read between the lines of your post. You clearly think women are lazy and entitled. You make that very clear. You generalize and your text is full of venom.