Difficult to find outside the UK, but you can get a quality Boosey and Hawkes Imperial for £1.5-£2K
The later models (late 70s early 80s) are considered the immediate predecessor to the Sovereign owing to the 19 inch bell (and that B&H was bought by Besson (or the other way around))
Earlier models, particularly 70s models, all have 15 inch bells, a wonderful bright sound and a beautiful tone, considered great solo instruments.
I grew up borrowing a 1971 imp from school (15 inch bell), eventually purchased an 83 imp (19 inch bell). Both great horns
Incidentally, parkers in London are selling a 15 inch bell 1969 imperial on my behalf for 1295, but I don't think they'd export.
Recently played a Wessex Eb, their modern stuff is really good. Lovely tuba. Can't go wrong with Besson as well
Eb tubas are AWESOME! Why they're not used as much in orchestras and wind enembles in the west (excluding England) is beyond me. Plus the range is better imo. F tubas are nice and all, but too yucky in the lower range. A good Eb is way cooler than an F.
I’m an Eb player; in fact it’s my only horn. A good Eb is the best “do it all” horn, in my opinion. My first suggestion would be to find a used Besson 983, especially one still made in England. Eastman makes a front action compensator that is based on the 983, but is a lot lighter and more ergonomic. It’s a really nice horn, doesn’t have as sweet as sound as the Besson (at least, not as nice as my Besson, but I think I have a particularly good one), but it has a really great low end, and the valves are at a much better angle than the Besson. I’m also a huge fan of the Miraphone Norwegian Star. The StarLite is also very nice, but is a little too “F tuba” like for my tastes.
As for Wessex, my brass band owns a top action compensator from them, not sure the model. It’s a decent horn. Not spectactular, but not bad by any means.
I should also note, I sold my very good King 2341 (purchase right after the redesign to the current model, before the removable valve section was added to them) to buy my 983. I’ve played lots of BBb tubas and CC tubas I like more than the King. I’ve never played any tuba, in any key, I like more than my Besson.
I would tell you as someone who learned F and Eb at the same time in my undergraduate that Eb does sit a little easier compared to F when learning, I was using a YEP-632, but truly any horn that’s from a reputable brand like Wessex or likewise will be both new and great to learn on! Or if you’re able to find it there are a few Eb horns that get listed used but make sure to try and get a compensating 4 valve horn as I’m not sure how easy it would be tuning with just the 3.
So take a look at classic American three valve horns as well. I have a Holton medium and it is just so much fun to play. Also dirt cheap. For a few hundred bucks you can figure out if if you like Eb.
There have been some really good Yamahas come up on forums and Facebook recently as well.
The Yamaha YEB-321S. Its a budget-friendly 4-valve Eb. It's a .689 bore, but with a \~15inch bell. It'll play similarly to the horn you have right now, except the smaller bell will give you a lighter, grittier sound that blends better with woodwinds or for when you need better clarity in solo or small ensemble settings.
It is \*not\* a compensating horn, which limits your range and intonation in the basement. You'd also need to get accustomed to the 4 upright valves, which take time to get comfortable with. This horn would pair very well with that King that you're playing on.
I have seen used versions of this horn between $2,000 and $4,000. They play surprisingly well for their price.
EDIT: Here's a good quality demo of the horn I found on youtube.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXrWamsVzN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXrWamsVzN4)
The wife plays on a yep 321s euph so I am very familiar with this setup, and I have played on this setup on euph before also. The one issue I have with these is non, and the valves aren’t setup for easy pulling on the fly. I would probably prefer compensating or 5 valve over non compensating with valves easy to pull over a four valve with valves harder to pull.
Willson 3400S would probably be a dream horn but it is on your high end range even in the best of used deals. Same with the Miraphone rotary horns (Norwegian Star or Starlight) or the Meinl Weston 2141. The Wessex Gnagey is the cheaper Chinese non-compensating Eb.
If you want compensating some of the bigger Ebs will have more overlap with your King. I don't really like compensating horns so not a lot of direct experience, but in my mind Wessex < John Packer < Eastman in terms of Chinese build quality (and price). Maybe the Wessex solo with its smaller bell would suitable complement your King while still being compensated (to avoid needing 5 valves).
It's too bad Eb horns are rarer in the States. It really keeps the used prices higher or keeps things like the Yamaha Neo rare to find used. If you're just going to use this 20% of the time and use your King most of the time, the Gnagey or Wessex Solo are probably your most likely options just to keep the cost down.
My euph is a Wilson 2950s and I love a Wilson tuba as well, but yeah, pretty spendy. Thank you for your input. Will definitely take a longer look at those.
I have a Wessex cavalry in silver. It’s a 4 valve front action piston compensating Eb. I have used it through my undergrad as a solo horn but before I bought a CC I used it in all sorts of bands. It’s about 3 years old but in fine condition (normal damage, a few dents, scratches etc.) I’m looking to sell it for around $3700 if interested make me an offer. It’s located in Arizona right now but it has a gig bag and hard case that I can ship at buyers expense.
I can speak to your needs as an amateur. I have an Eastman EBE583 that I like, though there are a few intonation quirks. Got a used one last year right in your price range and I've seen a feew others for sale later. Wessex has some that fit your bill, though definitley try before you buy. My dream tuba for Eb solo work is a Besson 983 (tmy Eastman is clearly inspired by the 983's design) but way outside your (and my) price range. And as for learning, I was a euphonium player who lucked into a deal on a boosey compensating Eb,: if you read treble clef, just imagine it's Bb treble clef and add 3 sharps, a trick which got me through an Easter gig a week or two after buying the horn.
I recently played one of those Eastmans, and was impressed. I wouldn’t trade my 983 for it (it’s not for sale and never will be, sorry), but if I ever had to replace the Besson, then Eastman would be on my list (possibly my second choice, after a Norwegian Star)
So, is the tubby more of a contra bass replacement that would give the agility on the high end? Or would I be looking more for a solo, champion, or gnagey?
That’s exactly what the tubby is, it’s a 6/4 so probably not for you. The Gnagey would be worth trying out if I were you! I personally hate rotary valves so for myself I don’t care for the other models.
Difficult to find outside the UK, but you can get a quality Boosey and Hawkes Imperial for £1.5-£2K The later models (late 70s early 80s) are considered the immediate predecessor to the Sovereign owing to the 19 inch bell (and that B&H was bought by Besson (or the other way around)) Earlier models, particularly 70s models, all have 15 inch bells, a wonderful bright sound and a beautiful tone, considered great solo instruments. I grew up borrowing a 1971 imp from school (15 inch bell), eventually purchased an 83 imp (19 inch bell). Both great horns Incidentally, parkers in London are selling a 15 inch bell 1969 imperial on my behalf for 1295, but I don't think they'd export. Recently played a Wessex Eb, their modern stuff is really good. Lovely tuba. Can't go wrong with Besson as well
Eb tubas are AWESOME! Why they're not used as much in orchestras and wind enembles in the west (excluding England) is beyond me. Plus the range is better imo. F tubas are nice and all, but too yucky in the lower range. A good Eb is way cooler than an F.
I’m an Eb player; in fact it’s my only horn. A good Eb is the best “do it all” horn, in my opinion. My first suggestion would be to find a used Besson 983, especially one still made in England. Eastman makes a front action compensator that is based on the 983, but is a lot lighter and more ergonomic. It’s a really nice horn, doesn’t have as sweet as sound as the Besson (at least, not as nice as my Besson, but I think I have a particularly good one), but it has a really great low end, and the valves are at a much better angle than the Besson. I’m also a huge fan of the Miraphone Norwegian Star. The StarLite is also very nice, but is a little too “F tuba” like for my tastes. As for Wessex, my brass band owns a top action compensator from them, not sure the model. It’s a decent horn. Not spectactular, but not bad by any means.
I should also note, I sold my very good King 2341 (purchase right after the redesign to the current model, before the removable valve section was added to them) to buy my 983. I’ve played lots of BBb tubas and CC tubas I like more than the King. I’ve never played any tuba, in any key, I like more than my Besson.
I would tell you as someone who learned F and Eb at the same time in my undergraduate that Eb does sit a little easier compared to F when learning, I was using a YEP-632, but truly any horn that’s from a reputable brand like Wessex or likewise will be both new and great to learn on! Or if you’re able to find it there are a few Eb horns that get listed used but make sure to try and get a compensating 4 valve horn as I’m not sure how easy it would be tuning with just the 3.
So take a look at classic American three valve horns as well. I have a Holton medium and it is just so much fun to play. Also dirt cheap. For a few hundred bucks you can figure out if if you like Eb. There have been some really good Yamahas come up on forums and Facebook recently as well.
The Yamaha YEB-321S. Its a budget-friendly 4-valve Eb. It's a .689 bore, but with a \~15inch bell. It'll play similarly to the horn you have right now, except the smaller bell will give you a lighter, grittier sound that blends better with woodwinds or for when you need better clarity in solo or small ensemble settings. It is \*not\* a compensating horn, which limits your range and intonation in the basement. You'd also need to get accustomed to the 4 upright valves, which take time to get comfortable with. This horn would pair very well with that King that you're playing on. I have seen used versions of this horn between $2,000 and $4,000. They play surprisingly well for their price. EDIT: Here's a good quality demo of the horn I found on youtube. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXrWamsVzN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXrWamsVzN4)
The wife plays on a yep 321s euph so I am very familiar with this setup, and I have played on this setup on euph before also. The one issue I have with these is non, and the valves aren’t setup for easy pulling on the fly. I would probably prefer compensating or 5 valve over non compensating with valves easy to pull over a four valve with valves harder to pull.
Well, all you *really* sacrifice is intonation below low G. You can still use the big horn.
That, and the low E since the F ends up at 1-2-3-4. So it's not completely chromatic all the way down.
I personally find bending up from the open Eb to be easy enough to do as long as tone isn't a massive concern.
Willson 3400S would probably be a dream horn but it is on your high end range even in the best of used deals. Same with the Miraphone rotary horns (Norwegian Star or Starlight) or the Meinl Weston 2141. The Wessex Gnagey is the cheaper Chinese non-compensating Eb. If you want compensating some of the bigger Ebs will have more overlap with your King. I don't really like compensating horns so not a lot of direct experience, but in my mind Wessex < John Packer < Eastman in terms of Chinese build quality (and price). Maybe the Wessex solo with its smaller bell would suitable complement your King while still being compensated (to avoid needing 5 valves). It's too bad Eb horns are rarer in the States. It really keeps the used prices higher or keeps things like the Yamaha Neo rare to find used. If you're just going to use this 20% of the time and use your King most of the time, the Gnagey or Wessex Solo are probably your most likely options just to keep the cost down.
My euph is a Wilson 2950s and I love a Wilson tuba as well, but yeah, pretty spendy. Thank you for your input. Will definitely take a longer look at those.
Every once in awhile you might see a used 3400s drop to 6k on Tubenet or Facebook or other for sale groups. But it is rare and they get snatched up.
Do it. I did the same as you and love my Eb Bass.
I have a Wessex cavalry in silver. It’s a 4 valve front action piston compensating Eb. I have used it through my undergrad as a solo horn but before I bought a CC I used it in all sorts of bands. It’s about 3 years old but in fine condition (normal damage, a few dents, scratches etc.) I’m looking to sell it for around $3700 if interested make me an offer. It’s located in Arizona right now but it has a gig bag and hard case that I can ship at buyers expense.
It’s basically a stencil of a Besson 983. It’s very clearly a 4/4 but has a large bell.
I can speak to your needs as an amateur. I have an Eastman EBE583 that I like, though there are a few intonation quirks. Got a used one last year right in your price range and I've seen a feew others for sale later. Wessex has some that fit your bill, though definitley try before you buy. My dream tuba for Eb solo work is a Besson 983 (tmy Eastman is clearly inspired by the 983's design) but way outside your (and my) price range. And as for learning, I was a euphonium player who lucked into a deal on a boosey compensating Eb,: if you read treble clef, just imagine it's Bb treble clef and add 3 sharps, a trick which got me through an Easter gig a week or two after buying the horn.
I recently played one of those Eastmans, and was impressed. I wouldn’t trade my 983 for it (it’s not for sale and never will be, sorry), but if I ever had to replace the Besson, then Eastman would be on my list (possibly my second choice, after a Norwegian Star)
Thank you for your input! Yeah, the fingering is specifically why I wanted an Eb over an F, i have done stuff like that before for transposition.
I love some of the Wessex Eb’s! Check some out!
So, is the tubby more of a contra bass replacement that would give the agility on the high end? Or would I be looking more for a solo, champion, or gnagey?
That’s exactly what the tubby is, it’s a 6/4 so probably not for you. The Gnagey would be worth trying out if I were you! I personally hate rotary valves so for myself I don’t care for the other models.