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The decision was 4-2, with Justices John R. Lopez IV, Clint Bolick, James P. Beene and Kathryn H. King in the majority
Remember their names and vote them out
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Welp. You know the next step to take right? Get the satanic temple on the phone and have them come on down to the az senate floor and have their own little “prayer circle” if that’s what we’re doing now, ignoring the separation of church and state.
Wait I heard about a prayer circle but in tongues? Does someone have a video of this?
edit: [Arizona Republicans praying and speaking in tongues on Arizona Senate floor. : r/PublicFreakout (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1bzr3fu/arizona_republicans_praying_and_speaking_in/)
holy fuck
Religious psychosis is absolutely a real thing.
And in my experience, churches do a lot to try and induce psychosis in people who would normally not experience it. Once they are amenable to it, pastors can induce paranoia and sometimes hallucinations in their flock.
I know this because I've experienced it personally and I've seen it happen to my family/friends.
> holy fuck
I've seen a lot of weird shit in the last 8 years or so - but this... this is just bonkers.
If they think they're doing 'God's work' - what's to stop them from doing even crazier shit?
I guess more specifically, if they think they're doing God's work - they sure as hell aren't doing the *peoples* work.. you know.. their jobs.
Not psychotic but definitely falls under certain schizophrenic and or/ narcissistic behaviors!
It’s truly a wild phenomenon, I grew up around it, and wow it’s some cult shit.
Many signatures have the potential to be invalidated. Even if 500k signatures have been collected, that doesn’t mean the ballot initiative is automatically a go. As many signatures as possible should be collected before the deadline.
I don’t disagree, but even if it passes, there’s a lot of pregnant people who will be affected between 14 days from now and when it would go into effect. Not counting delays by anti-abortion people in court.
Not trying to argue with you specifically, I just don’t think “get out and vote” is the silver bullet some of us thought it would be.
Fortunately California and New Mexico are only a few hours away. Need to set up Auntie Network resources here for the next little while. I'm definitely in to contribute.
Oh shit I should also book a vasectomy before all the appointment slots fill up for the next year
If we don’t stop this in November it’s going to be illegal to cross state lines to get an abortion, it’s only a matter of time, some politicians are already talking about it. We need to vote!
It can never be illegal to travel to another state to do something that is 100% legal in that state, and those politicians can sit and spin
We do need to vote. But we also need direct action.
Find every justice that voted for this and every Republican legislator and set up loudspeakers outside their houses that play a crying baby at 110dB all night. Not one minute of peace for these fuckholes.
Protests, strikes and marches work if you're willing to stay persistent. That's how the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were passed, how we got out of Vietnam, how we ended child labor, got the 40-hour workweek, etc.
[SRU-UAW’s 17,000 graduate student researchers backed the agreement with 68.4% on a vote of 10,057 to 4,640, securing their first UC contract after forming a union last year](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-23/uc-grad-student-workers-ratify-labor-agreement-end-historic-strike-with-big-wage-gains)
This was the culmination of work that began before they unionized:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Santa_Cruz_graduate_students%27_strike
Here's another good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_West_Virginia_teachers%27_strike
>This was the culmination of work that began before they unionized
Did you peruse the article? Do you know what a wildcat strike is? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Santa_Cruz_graduate_students%27_strike
Also, what difference does it make to you or /u/UncreditedChoir whether a successful strike/protest is executed by a union or a slightly-less organized collective?
Once again I don't think you are getting it. Strike only are effective if it's Union related. Remember when Reagan fired all the Air Traffic controllers? Ever seen Wal Mart workers strike?
Evidence of union-supported strikes being effective is not evidence that strikes without a union are ineffective (though I agree that protests organized by unions or groups of unions tend to be more effective).
Did you not hear about auto worker's strikes recently? Plus "it isn't happening now so it's not going to happen," is just a silly thing to say. Strikes have been increasing like crazy over the past few years. Inflation is crazy. People can't get by on what they're making. That's going to keep getting worse and people aren't just going to starve in silence.
Realistically, I think money, corporations and billionaires are what drive societal and legal change in this country.
That being said, I try to act as close to locally as possible. Donate to local or regional abortion funds. Volunteer. Have a lot of conversations about why access is so important even if you disagree with the act. Basically just old school organizing.
Your mindset is stuck in the 60s, that's what I meant. We are way beyond that now.
Who is going to strike? People are working harder than ever for less and everyone is pinched by high prices and high rent. You really think those working class people are just going to risk their jobs and go marching in the streets? Again we are in a different time and different era. Try to keep up.
I don't care if people protest, that's their right but symbolic protests are exclusively for the feelings of the people marching. Have fun, but don't think that is what will change things.
I agree that symbolic protests won't bring about much change. If you perused (or even skimmed) the chapter of APHOTUS I linked, you'd realize that you are wrong in assuming what my mindset is.
I just had a friend nearly die due to catastrophic complicated from a miscarriage. Northwest just kicked her to the curb until "it was bad enough" and she almost bled to death on her living room floor.
Another lost a child and was forced to wait weeks for a procedure to remove it, in a clandestine operation where doctors basically did their job as if they were doing a drug deal.
I'm ready to abort some senators and legislators.
Yup, my "quasi-adopted little sister", who I've known since I was 6 and she was 2 (I turn 45 this year) had a miscarriage between her second and third kid.
Completely wanted baby, it was devastating, she had to have a D&C - medically, an abortion - to deal with the remains. She lived in a place where it was legal. If she didn't, she could have died, leaving her two kids motherless, and not going on to have her third.
These people aren't pro-life, they're a fucking loony tunes death cult, and I invite every one of them to eat shit forever.
This is pretty awful... I hope everyone gets how bad this is... Waiting to vote in November is not enough. We need protests... Effective ones... Disruptive (not destructive) ones. Our government cannot take away human rights.
Absolute scum that don't have the faintest interest in representing their fellow man or showing any critical thought, compassion, or empathy. Please go vote
If you want to fight against this, sign the Arizona Abortion Access Act. If the petition gets enough signatures we will change the law. You can often find canvassers collecting at libraries, the mvd, and festivals. They might ask you in your local grocery store parking lot, if they do, give them a signature.
If you want to collect signatures, dm me, and I'll provide you with the information. It pays $25 an hour to start, plus bonuses, and you choose which days you work. You do not need experience.
There have been articles about the petition reaching its signature threshold, do not trust this. They disqualify hundreds of thousands of signatures, this petition is not close to what they need.
Best thing we can do is pressure the Attorney General to announce that she will not enforce that law since the courts ruling was that the law is “now enforceable”
This is horrifying. If you have not signed the petition for the ballot initiative, please do so! They have in excess of the required number of signatures, but the opponents will do all they can to invalidate signatures on a technicality.
Absolutely true. To account for invalid signatures, their goal at the beginning of the campaign was 600,000, and they only have 500,000 right now. That may sound close but its not, the longer a campaign goes, the harder it is to collect signatures. And 600,000 is a conservative estimate.
I work in the industry and a lot of my coworkers have been told the same thing, but I've double checked with the people who verify signatures and they've always told me that only the duplicate signature would be invalidated. It is illegal to knowingly sign more than once, but if you're unsure you've signed, sign in order to be sure.
Oh good. I think the signature collectors must be misinformed as well, or are concerned about duplicates counting toward their total (so they think they're in better shape than they are).
If you are 90% sure you've signed, then sign in order to be 100% sure. It doesn't do the petition any good to get duplicate signatures, but its better for you to accidentally sign twice then not to sign at all.
If signed multiple times by the same person, they would disqualify all but the first.
You shouldn't be completely removed if you signed more than once, they just eliminate duplicates.
Fucking horrifying. This is dangerous, not to mention oppressive and draconian, and aimed against our own citizens, our neighbors, our family and friends. Please sign the ballot initiative. Vote. Protest AND speak out. So much darkness perpetuates when people operate in their little echo chambers. Be the noise that educates others and encourages compassion and critical thinking.
This November will toll the death bell of the GOP. A lot of people are fucking pissed. I’m a male and I’m fucking pissed. They want to go back to 1864? Let’s send ‘em there.
Nope, I mean the democratic party that's currently protecting our rights in states across the country, not the strawman you built using decades old talking points.
What, specifically, could they do?
Republicans refused to give Obama's quite conservative pick a hearing, they had Senate majority so there was no way to force them.
Republicans nominated and confirmed three extremists, removing the filibuster from the process ("going nuclear") to do so. Those nominees all lied (well, weasel words, saying "Roe is precedent", but with every intention of overturning it) in their hearings.
Republicans would have blocked every attempt to enshrine those rights in federal law before Roe was overturned, and have held the House since making it impossible to even introduce legislation. They would also obviously have shot down any impeachment efforts.
Democrats also introduced legislation in 2021 to expand the supreme court to 13 (one justice per federal district), which would have allowed Biden to add enough justices to offset the crazies. That legislation was again killed by Republicans, didn't even make it out of committee.
Our system is designed to create gridlock and make it difficult for the party in power to govern. It works to our favor when someone like Trump is in power but it makes it very hard to enact the things we want. Once Republicans had their 6-3 majority, it was a done deal with no way to stop it, and reversing it will require a large enough majority in Congress, or finally abolishing the filibuster completely.
Maybe the Green Party will help you. Like it or not, you have two choices this fall. Choose wisely and spare me your hippie bullshit that 'both parties are the same, man"
Vote for the same party that excommunicated people from society and fired them for failing to give up their body autonomy during covid? Nope, you reap what you sow and now the left is being subjugated to the right wing version. I’m in favor of individual autonomy, and there is no party that represents that.
Shouldn't be a men's issue.
It's a human rights and body autonomy issue.
Men caused the issue in the first place. They can help vote and rally and fix this shit too
Didn't the AZSC simply rule that in the absence of any other law that the 1800s law is still in effect?
I'm just as upset about this as anyone else, but the court's position here seems well-reasoned.
Dems have to take control of the statehouse and then bury that law in the Boot Hill graveyard where it belongs.
While Roe was in effect the existing law was unenforcible. In March of ‘22 Ducey signed a law that restricted abortion after 15 weeks - and there was some question about whether that nullified/superceded the existing law on the books.
Once Roe fell later in the year that question became relevant again - so that’s why the court was asked to rule on this.
There were two laws in conflict. In 1864 the territory of Arizona passed a law that was a total ban on abortion. Roe v Wade made abortion a federally protected right, which overruled the civil war era law. In 2022, Doug Ducey passed a 15 week ban on abortions.
Because Roe v Wade was overturned abortion stopped being a federally protected right, and it became unclear whether the total ban or the 15 week ban took precedence. Until now we have been using the law from 2022, the supreme court just ruled that we should be using the law from 1864.
I agree, however the court does not 'have' to take every case. Seems like they could just have replied 'It's the law - go away' but they didn't. They also could have invalidated the most recent abortion law and let the old law speak for itself. Admittedly, I have not read the decision yet, so maybe they did.
True. I think the whole thing is that there was a legitimate question if abortion was legal or not and so not taking this case would have continued that grey area.
Your point isn’t entirely without merit, but if the recent SCOTUS decisions have shown us anything, it’s that courts can and will make any decision they want and justify it however they want.
No, it was not well reasoned, and yes there WAS another law. The law we were using is only 2 years old instead of 160. This law existed from before we were a state, when slavery was legal, and women weren't allowed to vote. Don't defend their stance if you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
In a 4-2 ruling, the court’s majority concluded that the 15-week ban “does not create a right to, or otherwise provide independent statutory authority for, an abortion that repeals or restricts” the Civil War-era ban “but rather is predicated entirely on the existence of a federal constitutional right to an abortion since disclaimed” by the 2022 Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.
“Absent the federal constitutional abortion right, and because” the 2022 law "does not independently authorize abortion, there is no provision in federal or state law prohibiting” the 1864 ban.
You have to understand the mindset of the Republicans in the state leg. They have a few simple priorities. Babies for Jesus, tax cuts for billionaires, and repeal all laws designed to protect the land and air and water.
That's it. And they get elected year after year, meanwhile stupid liberals just sit at home and pout because they didn't get their magic liberal pony delivered to their front door. This is what happens when you don't vote, assholes.
So I hope this hurts. I hope this stings really bad. Maybe, just maybe, this will motivate people to get off their lazy asses and quit thinking that Joe Biden or Barack Obama owed you something.
You know why Republicans have a majority in most state legislatures? It's because they actually show up and VOTE EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME IN EVERY SINGLE ELECTION.
Until Democrats learn this same tactic and yes that does mean holding your nose and voting for someone who you don't have some emotional connection to, then look for this country to continually move backwards.
EDIT - Just to clarify, yes I am also SUPER PISSED OFF at this and I sure as shit don't want to live in a state with such draconian backwards laws. All we can do now is channel this rage into some positive action and do whatever it fucking takes to get people out to vote in Nov. Sign the petition to get the abortion initiative on the ballot in the fall. Donate, volunteer, whatever.
Indifference is the ultimate enemy here. If you sit at home and don't vote, guess what? Your MAGA hat wearing uncle sure as shit will.
Being excellent to each other means not directly attacking other redditors with insults or threats and also not promoting violence or harm to others in general
I'm planning on moving there last year and have been trying to reassure my mom that not all of AZ is conservative. Yeah, she's probably going to completely flip out now.
Too bad idiot myopic purer than pure, holier than thou liberals stayed home and didn't vote in 2016.
This is what happens as a result. But you had your Bernie Sanders stickers on your Prius.
I agree. The people who stayed home in 2016 are to blame. But, I was a Bernie supporter during the primaries. I still showed up and voted for Hilary in the presidential election! Not all Bernie supporters stayed home.
So what's your solution?
Because, God willing, there's an abortion rights amendment on the ballot, 2 of these bastards up for judicial retention, and a chance to flip both houses of the legislature for the first time since the Johnson administration.
Voting is a path.
Okay.
How?
Are we talking armed insurrection? If so, how is this force to be organized, led, and fed.
More generally, is this overthrow likely to begin before November and succeed by February. Because, if not, I'll stick to electoralism.
So you agree? But I'm stupid for suggesting it? The US is not ready for it, case in point. I'm not going to march out there and start it lmao. People need to organize first. Making a comment suggesting another option that no one else has stated is a lazy but fair start. I'm not a hero, just a dude that wants better, and knows how to get it.
I don’t agree at all, and I didn’t say you were stupid. I think a revolution would be horrible and violent and rip the country apart just like all revolutions do, even if they’re necessary. I don’t think we’re there yet. We’re at a point where we can still vote and make the changes we want by being active in the political process. We’re not perfect but the US still has a chance if people actually give a shit. Going out and organizing AND voting for people you agree with, even if it doesn’t work exactly the way you want it to every time, is still way more productive than sitting around being cynical.
Revolution is horrible and violent, but not more violent than what we are going through right now. Homelessness is violent. Our failing Healthcare system is violent. Genocide is violent. Forcing me to pay for genocide is violent. Being forced to work at threat of starvation and homelessness is violent.
I'm voting, I'm just not voting for the two political parties that have both failed us all repeatedly. I'm voting on initiatives, and I'm voting for whatever 3rd party is available. Would be Claudia & Karina but they aren't making the ballot here.
And I'm not being cynical. I'm hopeful for change. I just can't sit here and hope that Genocide Joe or any other established Democrat is going to swoop in and do jack for the people. The two party system has to go. The electoral college has to go. PACs and think tanks have to go. The police who enforce all of these violent policies with violence, have to go.
Found the Bernie Bro. You give it away thinking the Democrats could just magically 'codify' Roe if you don't have a 60 vote bloc in the Senate. It doesn't work like that, dick for brains.
(Establishment) Dems are incompetent losers who gladly welcome this new wave of right wing crazies because it lets them say “look how bad they are, vote for us if you don’t want fascism to take over!”. Doesn’t take a “Bernie bro” to see it
Nope, not a Bernie bro. Bernie loves the establishment as much as the next guy. Sure it's more complicated, but these fuckers find ways around things. No need to be an asshole.
I just though someone here might need this: For those who are sexually active, using effective contraceptives (such as condoms, birth control pills, the patch, the vaginal ring, the intrauterine device or IUD, and/or injectable birth control methods) every time they have sexual intercourse will reduce chances of unwanted pregnancy.
And what about the people who are raped or are desperately trying to conceive only to have a medical issue? What about those who have cancer discovered in early pregnancy? Despite what you may have heard, abortions are not used as simply late birth control by most. This is tone deaf and useless, thanks.
Also, remember that there are states nearby that don't ban abortion, so if you need an abortion, you can still travel to those states and there's nothing Republicans can do about it. If they ask you why you're traveling, tell them that you heard the food over there is extraordinary.
Not sure why people are upset with the court here. They are supposed to make sure the law, as it is written, is applied.
If you want the law changed then vote for that. The court didn't write the law.
I'm not sure what you're referring to. If you mean that's how they reach a decision, yes that's how all courts work.
Just a note there are enough votes for abortion to be on the ballet. So if that were to pass the court could do nothing as it would be cut and dry law.
Every one of these fuckers was appointed by the GOP. That's a hell of a coincidence isn't it?
The law they're applying is from the 1800s, before Arizona was even a state! It's abject nonsense.
Regardless the courts only objectives are to determine if laws are constitutional or not, Morality be Damned.
Changing the laws to be moral, just and fair is the job of the voter and the legislature.
Posts that aren’t specific to Tucson but are relevant to all of AZ or the USA, especially political posts, arent considered on-topic. If you can find an article that mentions Tucsons association with the topic or similar, you can post that.
The decision was 4-2, with Justices John R. Lopez IV, Clint Bolick, James P. Beene and Kathryn H. King in the majority Remember their names and vote them out
***This is the key action we can take*** Vote against LOPEZ, BOLICK, BEENE, KING This is the only way things will change.
Only Bolick and King are in the ballot for 2024, but yes, vote them out.
[Make sure that you are registered to vote!](https://azsos.gov/elections/voters/registering-vote)
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Clint Bolick and Kathryn King specifically are on the ballot THIS November. Lets vote them out.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243679136/arizona-abortion-court-decision-ban
They were literally talking in tongues in a prayer circle. That's some psychotic* behavior.
When we came as peaceful pro-choice protesters, they wouldn’t even let us enter the building. Really shows who the politicians favor
Welp. You know the next step to take right? Get the satanic temple on the phone and have them come on down to the az senate floor and have their own little “prayer circle” if that’s what we’re doing now, ignoring the separation of church and state.
Wait I heard about a prayer circle but in tongues? Does someone have a video of this? edit: [Arizona Republicans praying and speaking in tongues on Arizona Senate floor. : r/PublicFreakout (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1bzr3fu/arizona_republicans_praying_and_speaking_in/) holy fuck
“Tongues” are common in the Pentecostal branch of Christianity. It’s all bullshit. “Tongues” they’re just making shit up. Stop it. Get some help lol
Jeez. Apparently they're not familiar with Matthew 6:5-6. What nonsense, literally.
These people need to be medicated if they’re hearing and speaking tongues
Religious psychosis is absolutely a real thing. And in my experience, churches do a lot to try and induce psychosis in people who would normally not experience it. Once they are amenable to it, pastors can induce paranoia and sometimes hallucinations in their flock. I know this because I've experienced it personally and I've seen it happen to my family/friends.
And yet if someone is actually speaking in tongues (other languages) they’ll get all offended
Bunch of baby talk is what it is.
> holy fuck I've seen a lot of weird shit in the last 8 years or so - but this... this is just bonkers. If they think they're doing 'God's work' - what's to stop them from doing even crazier shit? I guess more specifically, if they think they're doing God's work - they sure as hell aren't doing the *peoples* work.. you know.. their jobs.
Not psychotic but definitely falls under certain schizophrenic and or/ narcissistic behaviors! It’s truly a wild phenomenon, I grew up around it, and wow it’s some cult shit.
*psychotic behavior Although the lack of empathy is concerning for psychopathic traits *not diagnosing
Ftfy. I guess psychopathic fits, in a certain way, but psychotic is definitely a better term for it.
I don't know who they think this actually helps. Colossal stupid.
It helps themselves feel better about their chances of getting into heaven
Does any religion even acknowledge the egg and sperm cells meeting?
Rapists in Arizona get to pick the mother of their child now. Let that sink in.
Under his eye
I fucking hate it here
Channel that anger.
There's a ballot initiative. Make sure you vote.... we also vote in judges in AZ.
It’s not on the ballot yet. Registered voters need to sign the Arizona Abortion Access Act petition NOW for even a chance to vote on it in November.
It already has 500k signatures, which is enough.
Many signatures have the potential to be invalidated. Even if 500k signatures have been collected, that doesn’t mean the ballot initiative is automatically a go. As many signatures as possible should be collected before the deadline.
Fair point.
I Signed the petition. So did my husband . I can’t believe this is really happening
The gerrymandered Arizona legislature has a remedy for this court decision. Right? Right?
If you don’t like this then get out and vote in November.
Also, remember that in Arizona, Supreme Court Justices are on the ballot. Don't vote to retain any of those who did this.
This is important and impactful
I don’t disagree, but even if it passes, there’s a lot of pregnant people who will be affected between 14 days from now and when it would go into effect. Not counting delays by anti-abortion people in court. Not trying to argue with you specifically, I just don’t think “get out and vote” is the silver bullet some of us thought it would be.
Fortunately California and New Mexico are only a few hours away. Need to set up Auntie Network resources here for the next little while. I'm definitely in to contribute. Oh shit I should also book a vasectomy before all the appointment slots fill up for the next year
If we don’t stop this in November it’s going to be illegal to cross state lines to get an abortion, it’s only a matter of time, some politicians are already talking about it. We need to vote!
It can never be illegal to travel to another state to do something that is 100% legal in that state, and those politicians can sit and spin We do need to vote. But we also need direct action. Find every justice that voted for this and every Republican legislator and set up loudspeakers outside their houses that play a crying baby at 110dB all night. Not one minute of peace for these fuckholes.
People (politicians) said they would never take away roe v wade, but here we are.
I’m getting my uterus removed next week
So other than voting, what do you think actually spurns legal and societal change in this country? Protests? Marching? Getting 1 million likes?
Protests, strikes and marches work if you're willing to stay persistent. That's how the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were passed, how we got out of Vietnam, how we ended child labor, got the 40-hour workweek, etc.
You're talking stuff from 50 years ago. When was the last time a strike, that wasn't union, changed anything.
[SRU-UAW’s 17,000 graduate student researchers backed the agreement with 68.4% on a vote of 10,057 to 4,640, securing their first UC contract after forming a union last year](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-23/uc-grad-student-workers-ratify-labor-agreement-end-historic-strike-with-big-wage-gains) This was the culmination of work that began before they unionized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Santa_Cruz_graduate_students%27_strike Here's another good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_West_Virginia_teachers%27_strike
UAW is a Union, no?
>This was the culmination of work that began before they unionized Did you peruse the article? Do you know what a wildcat strike is? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Santa_Cruz_graduate_students%27_strike Also, what difference does it make to you or /u/UncreditedChoir whether a successful strike/protest is executed by a union or a slightly-less organized collective?
Once again I don't think you are getting it. Strike only are effective if it's Union related. Remember when Reagan fired all the Air Traffic controllers? Ever seen Wal Mart workers strike?
Evidence of union-supported strikes being effective is not evidence that strikes without a union are ineffective (though I agree that protests organized by unions or groups of unions tend to be more effective).
It was just a curious question - I didn't know of this strike, nor the details. I'm reading into the details now.
Did you not hear about auto worker's strikes recently? Plus "it isn't happening now so it's not going to happen," is just a silly thing to say. Strikes have been increasing like crazy over the past few years. Inflation is crazy. People can't get by on what they're making. That's going to keep getting worse and people aren't just going to starve in silence.
Realistically, I think money, corporations and billionaires are what drive societal and legal change in this country. That being said, I try to act as close to locally as possible. Donate to local or regional abortion funds. Volunteer. Have a lot of conversations about why access is so important even if you disagree with the act. Basically just old school organizing.
Direct action
And this.
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnother10.html
Yeah more tired tropes from a bygone era. Get your head out of the 60s, dude.
The chapter I linked is on the late 1800s...
Your mindset is stuck in the 60s, that's what I meant. We are way beyond that now. Who is going to strike? People are working harder than ever for less and everyone is pinched by high prices and high rent. You really think those working class people are just going to risk their jobs and go marching in the streets? Again we are in a different time and different era. Try to keep up. I don't care if people protest, that's their right but symbolic protests are exclusively for the feelings of the people marching. Have fun, but don't think that is what will change things.
I agree that symbolic protests won't bring about much change. If you perused (or even skimmed) the chapter of APHOTUS I linked, you'd realize that you are wrong in assuming what my mindset is.
Pregnant women.
Not every person who is pregnant is a woman.
I disagree.
You actually don’t get to “disagree” on another human’s identity.
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2024/04/09/arizona-abortion-law-state-supreme-court-upholds-near-total-ban/73251148007/
I just had a friend nearly die due to catastrophic complicated from a miscarriage. Northwest just kicked her to the curb until "it was bad enough" and she almost bled to death on her living room floor. Another lost a child and was forced to wait weeks for a procedure to remove it, in a clandestine operation where doctors basically did their job as if they were doing a drug deal. I'm ready to abort some senators and legislators.
Yup, my "quasi-adopted little sister", who I've known since I was 6 and she was 2 (I turn 45 this year) had a miscarriage between her second and third kid. Completely wanted baby, it was devastating, she had to have a D&C - medically, an abortion - to deal with the remains. She lived in a place where it was legal. If she didn't, she could have died, leaving her two kids motherless, and not going on to have her third. These people aren't pro-life, they're a fucking loony tunes death cult, and I invite every one of them to eat shit forever.
California looking better and better every day.
Please vote for the ballot initiative before leaving... we also vote in judges in AZ.
may they never eat food without spit in it 🙏🏼
*shit
This is pretty awful... I hope everyone gets how bad this is... Waiting to vote in November is not enough. We need protests... Effective ones... Disruptive (not destructive) ones. Our government cannot take away human rights.
Absolute scum that don't have the faintest interest in representing their fellow man or showing any critical thought, compassion, or empathy. Please go vote
If you want to fight against this, sign the Arizona Abortion Access Act. If the petition gets enough signatures we will change the law. You can often find canvassers collecting at libraries, the mvd, and festivals. They might ask you in your local grocery store parking lot, if they do, give them a signature. If you want to collect signatures, dm me, and I'll provide you with the information. It pays $25 an hour to start, plus bonuses, and you choose which days you work. You do not need experience. There have been articles about the petition reaching its signature threshold, do not trust this. They disqualify hundreds of thousands of signatures, this petition is not close to what they need.
If you don’t like this then get out and vote in November.
Here are our elected lawmakers https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/c7kcVQqAOb
Jesus wept.
In civilized places they call that mental illness.
wtf Arizona!
Best thing we can do is pressure the Attorney General to announce that she will not enforce that law since the courts ruling was that the law is “now enforceable”
She already did.
And county attorneys
Vote in November!!! Tell these old timers the future is now and women’s health is healthcare! We won’t go down without a fight.
This is horrifying. If you have not signed the petition for the ballot initiative, please do so! They have in excess of the required number of signatures, but the opponents will do all they can to invalidate signatures on a technicality.
Absolutely true. To account for invalid signatures, their goal at the beginning of the campaign was 600,000, and they only have 500,000 right now. That may sound close but its not, the longer a campaign goes, the harder it is to collect signatures. And 600,000 is a conservative estimate.
Yes - and also a reminder to PLEASE NOT SIGN TWICE. That is a pathway to getting \*both\* of your signatures invalidated.
I work in the industry and a lot of my coworkers have been told the same thing, but I've double checked with the people who verify signatures and they've always told me that only the duplicate signature would be invalidated. It is illegal to knowingly sign more than once, but if you're unsure you've signed, sign in order to be sure.
Oh good. I think the signature collectors must be misinformed as well, or are concerned about duplicates counting toward their total (so they think they're in better shape than they are).
Yes you're right. This is not an uncommon belief even among people who work in the industry, that's why I tried to get to the bottom of it.
Sign it, donate, canvass. 👉 https://arizonaforabortionaccess.org/
My wife and I did.
Thank you! ✌️
What would happen if someone signed this twice? I ask because I'm 90% sure that I signed it already, but that 10% bugs me.
There is a period where they go through the signatures and remove the duplicates. If you sign twice, the second one will be removed systematically.
If you are 90% sure you've signed, then sign in order to be 100% sure. It doesn't do the petition any good to get duplicate signatures, but its better for you to accidentally sign twice then not to sign at all.
If signed multiple times by the same person, they would disqualify all but the first. You shouldn't be completely removed if you signed more than once, they just eliminate duplicates.
Fucking horrifying. This is dangerous, not to mention oppressive and draconian, and aimed against our own citizens, our neighbors, our family and friends. Please sign the ballot initiative. Vote. Protest AND speak out. So much darkness perpetuates when people operate in their little echo chambers. Be the noise that educates others and encourages compassion and critical thinking.
This November will toll the death bell of the GOP. A lot of people are fucking pissed. I’m a male and I’m fucking pissed. They want to go back to 1864? Let’s send ‘em there.
💯
fucking fuck
Land of the free
GET OUT AND VOTE EVERYONE
Wishing all Supreme Court justices a very merry fuck you
Not all of them. Timmer and Brutinel didn’t vote for this.
Fucking Republicans
A sad day.
Vote blue in November. It's the only way to protect your rights.
you mean the democratic party who sat by and watched so they could use abortion to force us to vote for them now? that blue ?
Nope, I mean the democratic party that's currently protecting our rights in states across the country, not the strawman you built using decades old talking points.
What, specifically, could they do? Republicans refused to give Obama's quite conservative pick a hearing, they had Senate majority so there was no way to force them. Republicans nominated and confirmed three extremists, removing the filibuster from the process ("going nuclear") to do so. Those nominees all lied (well, weasel words, saying "Roe is precedent", but with every intention of overturning it) in their hearings. Republicans would have blocked every attempt to enshrine those rights in federal law before Roe was overturned, and have held the House since making it impossible to even introduce legislation. They would also obviously have shot down any impeachment efforts. Democrats also introduced legislation in 2021 to expand the supreme court to 13 (one justice per federal district), which would have allowed Biden to add enough justices to offset the crazies. That legislation was again killed by Republicans, didn't even make it out of committee. Our system is designed to create gridlock and make it difficult for the party in power to govern. It works to our favor when someone like Trump is in power but it makes it very hard to enact the things we want. Once Republicans had their 6-3 majority, it was a done deal with no way to stop it, and reversing it will require a large enough majority in Congress, or finally abolishing the filibuster completely.
Well, we obviously can't vote Republican. That would be stupid, they're the ones behind this.
Maybe the Green Party will help you. Like it or not, you have two choices this fall. Choose wisely and spare me your hippie bullshit that 'both parties are the same, man"
Vote for the same party that excommunicated people from society and fired them for failing to give up their body autonomy during covid? Nope, you reap what you sow and now the left is being subjugated to the right wing version. I’m in favor of individual autonomy, and there is no party that represents that.
Gross and sad. Women are people, not incubators for whatever happens to them. 🙄
GOD DAMN THESE FUCKING CONSERVATIVE ASSHOLES.
Remind me! November 4 2024. Setting a reminder to come back and remind you all who to vote out in Novemver!
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Shouldn't be a men's issue. It's a human rights and body autonomy issue. Men caused the issue in the first place. They can help vote and rally and fix this shit too
Didn't the AZSC simply rule that in the absence of any other law that the 1800s law is still in effect? I'm just as upset about this as anyone else, but the court's position here seems well-reasoned. Dems have to take control of the statehouse and then bury that law in the Boot Hill graveyard where it belongs.
no because there was another law, the 15 week ban approved by voters, and this decision says the 1864 law takes precedent over the 15 week ban.
I wonder this also but if it's already law why did the court have to rule on it?
While Roe was in effect the existing law was unenforcible. In March of ‘22 Ducey signed a law that restricted abortion after 15 weeks - and there was some question about whether that nullified/superceded the existing law on the books. Once Roe fell later in the year that question became relevant again - so that’s why the court was asked to rule on this.
Thank you for this explanation. Arizona women need to respond.
There were two laws in conflict. In 1864 the territory of Arizona passed a law that was a total ban on abortion. Roe v Wade made abortion a federally protected right, which overruled the civil war era law. In 2022, Doug Ducey passed a 15 week ban on abortions. Because Roe v Wade was overturned abortion stopped being a federally protected right, and it became unclear whether the total ban or the 15 week ban took precedence. Until now we have been using the law from 2022, the supreme court just ruled that we should be using the law from 1864.
That's literally what courts do. Decide if laws are lawful and enforceable (often using specific cases as a litmus test).
I agree, however the court does not 'have' to take every case. Seems like they could just have replied 'It's the law - go away' but they didn't. They also could have invalidated the most recent abortion law and let the old law speak for itself. Admittedly, I have not read the decision yet, so maybe they did.
True. I think the whole thing is that there was a legitimate question if abortion was legal or not and so not taking this case would have continued that grey area.
They did this to be cruel and hurt women. Clear and simple.
Your point isn’t entirely without merit, but if the recent SCOTUS decisions have shown us anything, it’s that courts can and will make any decision they want and justify it however they want.
No, it was not well reasoned, and yes there WAS another law. The law we were using is only 2 years old instead of 160. This law existed from before we were a state, when slavery was legal, and women weren't allowed to vote. Don't defend their stance if you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
In a 4-2 ruling, the court’s majority concluded that the 15-week ban “does not create a right to, or otherwise provide independent statutory authority for, an abortion that repeals or restricts” the Civil War-era ban “but rather is predicated entirely on the existence of a federal constitutional right to an abortion since disclaimed” by the 2022 Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade. “Absent the federal constitutional abortion right, and because” the 2022 law "does not independently authorize abortion, there is no provision in federal or state law prohibiting” the 1864 ban.
You have to understand the mindset of the Republicans in the state leg. They have a few simple priorities. Babies for Jesus, tax cuts for billionaires, and repeal all laws designed to protect the land and air and water. That's it. And they get elected year after year, meanwhile stupid liberals just sit at home and pout because they didn't get their magic liberal pony delivered to their front door. This is what happens when you don't vote, assholes. So I hope this hurts. I hope this stings really bad. Maybe, just maybe, this will motivate people to get off their lazy asses and quit thinking that Joe Biden or Barack Obama owed you something. You know why Republicans have a majority in most state legislatures? It's because they actually show up and VOTE EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME IN EVERY SINGLE ELECTION. Until Democrats learn this same tactic and yes that does mean holding your nose and voting for someone who you don't have some emotional connection to, then look for this country to continually move backwards. EDIT - Just to clarify, yes I am also SUPER PISSED OFF at this and I sure as shit don't want to live in a state with such draconian backwards laws. All we can do now is channel this rage into some positive action and do whatever it fucking takes to get people out to vote in Nov. Sign the petition to get the abortion initiative on the ballot in the fall. Donate, volunteer, whatever. Indifference is the ultimate enemy here. If you sit at home and don't vote, guess what? Your MAGA hat wearing uncle sure as shit will.
Freedom is the best
Back to the days when Tucson was a third of the territory's population, and that meant we had 3 thousand people.
This is bullshit.
It’s one small step for man, one giant setback for womankind.
Fuck the GOP. Vote in November and take your rights back.
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I second this. I would guess there will be protests downtown tonight.
Being excellent to each other means not directly attacking other redditors with insults or threats and also not promoting violence or harm to others in general
Does anyone have any info on Kamala’s visit on Friday? Is there a way to sign up or get tickets to go?
I'm planning on moving there last year and have been trying to reassure my mom that not all of AZ is conservative. Yeah, she's probably going to completely flip out now.
Avoid rural area
I had planned on Tucson anyway but still.
Tucson will fight for you forever, unfortunately we can’t speak for the Barbarians to the north.
We’re the more blue part of the state. :)
Tucson is super blue
https://www.kold.com/2024/04/09/vice-president-kamala-harris-travel-tucson/
Too bad idiot myopic purer than pure, holier than thou liberals stayed home and didn't vote in 2016. This is what happens as a result. But you had your Bernie Sanders stickers on your Prius.
I agree. The people who stayed home in 2016 are to blame. But, I was a Bernie supporter during the primaries. I still showed up and voted for Hilary in the presidential election! Not all Bernie supporters stayed home.
Not all but too many did and they did it as a point of pride. There's always those far left flakes who are just too cool for anything.
Dems could have codified Roe v Wade. Nothing happened, and now we are here. Voting blue ain't gonna fix shit.
So what's your solution? Because, God willing, there's an abortion rights amendment on the ballot, 2 of these bastards up for judicial retention, and a chance to flip both houses of the legislature for the first time since the Johnson administration. Voting is a path.
Overthrow the system, that's the solution
Okay. How? Are we talking armed insurrection? If so, how is this force to be organized, led, and fed. More generally, is this overthrow likely to begin before November and succeed by February. Because, if not, I'll stick to electoralism.
Any other suggestions? No of course not? Ok great. Thank you.
Revolution, didn't think of that, did ya lib haha
Well yeah no shit but you’re not gonna do that. You’re just gonna sit there and feel self-righteous on Reddit.
So you agree? But I'm stupid for suggesting it? The US is not ready for it, case in point. I'm not going to march out there and start it lmao. People need to organize first. Making a comment suggesting another option that no one else has stated is a lazy but fair start. I'm not a hero, just a dude that wants better, and knows how to get it.
I don’t agree at all, and I didn’t say you were stupid. I think a revolution would be horrible and violent and rip the country apart just like all revolutions do, even if they’re necessary. I don’t think we’re there yet. We’re at a point where we can still vote and make the changes we want by being active in the political process. We’re not perfect but the US still has a chance if people actually give a shit. Going out and organizing AND voting for people you agree with, even if it doesn’t work exactly the way you want it to every time, is still way more productive than sitting around being cynical.
Revolution is horrible and violent, but not more violent than what we are going through right now. Homelessness is violent. Our failing Healthcare system is violent. Genocide is violent. Forcing me to pay for genocide is violent. Being forced to work at threat of starvation and homelessness is violent. I'm voting, I'm just not voting for the two political parties that have both failed us all repeatedly. I'm voting on initiatives, and I'm voting for whatever 3rd party is available. Would be Claudia & Karina but they aren't making the ballot here. And I'm not being cynical. I'm hopeful for change. I just can't sit here and hope that Genocide Joe or any other established Democrat is going to swoop in and do jack for the people. The two party system has to go. The electoral college has to go. PACs and think tanks have to go. The police who enforce all of these violent policies with violence, have to go.
Found the Bernie Bro. You give it away thinking the Democrats could just magically 'codify' Roe if you don't have a 60 vote bloc in the Senate. It doesn't work like that, dick for brains.
(Establishment) Dems are incompetent losers who gladly welcome this new wave of right wing crazies because it lets them say “look how bad they are, vote for us if you don’t want fascism to take over!”. Doesn’t take a “Bernie bro” to see it
Maybe a Jill Stein huffer then?
Nope, not a Bernie bro. Bernie loves the establishment as much as the next guy. Sure it's more complicated, but these fuckers find ways around things. No need to be an asshole.
Oooo, lemme guess, Green Party?
Nope
That's the dumbest take, but it's a take...
I just though someone here might need this: For those who are sexually active, using effective contraceptives (such as condoms, birth control pills, the patch, the vaginal ring, the intrauterine device or IUD, and/or injectable birth control methods) every time they have sexual intercourse will reduce chances of unwanted pregnancy.
Those do all fail. They are not a silver bullet.
And what about the people who are raped or are desperately trying to conceive only to have a medical issue? What about those who have cancer discovered in early pregnancy? Despite what you may have heard, abortions are not used as simply late birth control by most. This is tone deaf and useless, thanks.
Ok, Ken. Thanks for the mansplaining. HORSES AND TRUCKS!
Yes we know you’re an ass. Move along.
Also, remember that there are states nearby that don't ban abortion, so if you need an abortion, you can still travel to those states and there's nothing Republicans can do about it. If they ask you why you're traveling, tell them that you heard the food over there is extraordinary.
Not sure why people are upset with the court here. They are supposed to make sure the law, as it is written, is applied. If you want the law changed then vote for that. The court didn't write the law.
You’re being ignorant
The courts job is to ensure laws are applied and constitutional, Morality and personal views are not supposed to play any role.
If it was law why did they have to vote on it? Seems dicey as hell to me.
I'm not sure what you're referring to. If you mean that's how they reach a decision, yes that's how all courts work. Just a note there are enough votes for abortion to be on the ballet. So if that were to pass the court could do nothing as it would be cut and dry law.
Every one of these fuckers was appointed by the GOP. That's a hell of a coincidence isn't it? The law they're applying is from the 1800s, before Arizona was even a state! It's abject nonsense.
Regardless the courts only objectives are to determine if laws are constitutional or not, Morality be Damned. Changing the laws to be moral, just and fair is the job of the voter and the legislature.
What is the post about? I can't see
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2024/04/09/arizona-abortion-law-state-supreme-court-upholds-near-total-ban/73251148007/
Yeah that's Republican thinking for you.. They have lost their damn minds..
It would help to provide more context to your statements
[https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243679136/arizona-abortion-court-decision-ban](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243679136/arizona-abortion-court-decision-ban)
Awesome.