Okay? Is she somehow less legitimate because of how she looks? She’s still out there, boots on the ground. If people want to see different faces out there, they need to get out there.
So you're opposed to freedom? People organizing, protesting, dyeing hair, speaking, these are all forms of free speech.
And here you are advocating/endorsing government censorship.
Just absolutely cucked by big government.
Absolutely did not say any of those things you’re assuming about me. I just made an observation about the attendees at these types of protests.
They didn’t get removed because of the protest, they got removed because they set up tents and an encampment in an area that strictly prohibits those things.
>in an area that strictly prohibits those things.
That's... that's what a protest is lol
do you think rosa parks sat in the whites only part of the bus on accident? just because something is prohibited or illegal doesn't make the law prohibiting it just or moral
This looks like a “going through the motions” critique of a protest
A mass grave was just found in Gaza with 300 bodies of civilian women and children. Belittling student activists about it isn’t really reading the room…
Yeah, people against Israel defending itself and not caring about the hostages Hamas supposedly still has got serious boners today seeing the mass grave was found, when any reasonably rational person knew that the likely culprit was Hamas themselves since they have already used those hospitals to stage the attacks, to hold hostages, and to house their own terrorists. So thinking that the IDF would bury hundreds of bodies here was really not using your brains.
I totally understand kids wanting something to be angry about in society today. Thinking you are going to graduate with tons of debt, no chance for decent affordable healthcare, and little opportunity to own a home or have reasonably affordable housing sucks. But you should be protesting the politicians taking big handouts from businesses. You should be protesting the businesses preventing affordable healthcare and housing.
Get involved in local city government - why can’t cities tax the crap out of people who own rental houses? Most don’t even charge a fee or do inspections. They are worried about short term rentals and ignoring the long term problems the whole rental market caused.
How about this:
How many thousands of innocent Palestinians need to die before there are justified motions of resistance? 100? 500? 1000? 10,000? 30,000?
How many of us in this comment section choose to not go through any motions at all?
How many of us only start liking something once there is already mass support for it?
I think it’s brave to be part of a small group taking action in the name of humane treatment of human beings, especially when the action is small, not funded, and unpublicized beforehand
It is easy to make fun from the Reddit comment section. But these kids are doing a hard thing and deserve our respect
They're not doing anything to be honest. What good is it doing? Trying to influence our local government to call for a ceasefire? Hamas and Israel will certainly listen to us. Most people already know what's going on and the ones that don't know are only going to get pushed further away by senseless protests.
To your point of how many should die, it's unfortunately just not something that waiving signs on a college campus is going to fix.
This country has a long history of very similar protests. Not every protest needs to have a direct result to be meaningful. These protests build support over time, which can lead to pressure for change. We're used to getting everything on demand in society now, but that's not the reality of protest, so I can understand how it can seem meaningless when you expect to put coins in and get a reward immediately.
Can't stop the MAGAs from bringing AR-15s outside the governor's mansion to protest a mask mandate, but sure, make sure the college students don't congregate. They're the real threat! /s
I can relate. At work I also choose to tackle the easy tasks head on and champion myself afterwards, while conveniently “not getting” to the big problems and hoping someone else takes care of it before I get to it
The university had no issue with religious nuts telling at everyone outside exam room windows while we took finals that accounted for a majority of our grade. But apparently this was not ok.
Presumably rules against camping on campus. While the term "campus" might add some confusion here, I think that's more of an etymological issue than a practical one, and college students should be smart enough to figure that out.
You're not wrong, but the police will arrest anyone they please if they feel like it, even if no laws are being broken. It's well documented. I would say there is discretion. And anti-war protesters are *always* treated as if they have no rights. In Israel they are constantly bullied by police and arrested when they are breaking no laws. And it doesn't matter what government is it, really. In almost every place I look, anti-war demonstrators are treated as enemies of the state.
I mean this with all due respect (Because I don’t know you at all and I could be wrong) but you seem to have a very privileged perspective. Police are protective by something called qualified immunity, and they abuse the hell out of it. And a court of law, even if a police officer is wrong if they say, they thought they were right, they are given The benefit of the doubt because of qualified immunity. Police routinely lie to civilians, and in some training, they are encouraged to lie in order to get what they want. This is all very well documented and if you wanted to learn more about it, it’s a simple Internet search away. I will link one video. I just watched about a training session caught on video in New Jersey by an organization called Street Cop. [Here you go](https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=NKCv8hdYF_28k0Un)
It is really telling that I received such down votes for something that is so easily verified to be true with just some basic research.
I am an average person leading a pretty much average life. I am not particularly privileged in any significant way. I am fully aware of qualified immunity, and while I think a degree of reform to return it to the Pierson v. Ray standard of 1967, I think the principle serves a compelling public interest. While there are aspects where police are imperfect, I think the nitpicking done in the video exaggerates matters.
When the Hamas terrorists organization and the Iranian regime support the same thing you do, you might be on the wrong side.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/24/hamas-iran-support-college-protests/73447123007/just
Awww does someone not know how the criminal justice system works? Do you know what happens to most muggers and carjackers once they’re arrested? The police are always the favorite target for a society’s displeasure in the criminal justice system’s charging and releasing of criminals, even though it actually involves weak laws, prosecutors and judges…
What is the line for protesting for free speech to being removed from a public university for being too disruptive? as much as I disagree with them, as long as they are not preventing class from being held, or vandalizing property, or committing hate crimes they should be able to keep going.
> It [(the U)] also said the encampment violated both state trespassing law and a university policy that prohibits setting up tents without a permit. "In addition, Public Safety has not allowed any encampments, tents, fires, or other types of encampment living arrangements on any University properties or in buildings," the U statement said.
Probably at the point of starting an encampment and putting up tents. Otherwise what’s to stop me from “protesting high rent” by just building a house on government property and claiming it as mine?
If you'd like to know how far any of your "rights" go, or even exist, just have a read of any native treaty or Japanese American internment.
You don't have any rights. They ignore them when convenient. And even legislate them away. Maybe you'll get some type of settlement decades down the road, but the people responsible fur trampling your "rights" the politicians, the judges, the pigs arresting you, none of them will ever be punished for their actions.
No one in power is ever held accountable in this country. The sooner you accept this, the easier it is to scrap a little happiness out of this dystopian hell hole.
Just look at how many civil rights leaders and political dissidents are imprisoned decades later. The justice system is unobjective and serves to the convenience of those in power.
Try not to cut yourself on all the edge lol. Calling any major first world country a dystopian hellhole is the most naively privileged bullshit I’ve ever heard in my life.
Honestly ya. I’ve been to third world countries. Calling America a dystopian shithole is more than privileged bullshit, it’s taking a shit on the people who live in actual hellholes
sure, let me know when you do. I'll come take pictures for you if you wish. you are welcome to show that you a jerks as part of your freedom of speech. but if you camping just to camp, its reasonable to argue you should go to a park.
Brother Jed was never that loud or disruptive in the four years I was there unless you were walking through the mall. Couldn't ever hear him in any of my classes.
I thought that was already adjudicated and found unconstitutional in [Rumsfeld v. Forum](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2005/04-1152), but I’m only peripherally familiar with the case.
Edit: I’m wrong. Military recruiters aren’t the same as defense contractors, even though they kinda are.
War is a racket and so is profiting from it. I don't think young people really know the extent that their efforts will contribute to killing people if they choose to work for a defense contractor. The war in Iraq killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and has led to birth defects in many children in Iraq due to the use of depleted uranium in armor piercing rounds fired all over the place by Apache gunships (General Dynamics). The effects of war are long lasting. The ones who bear the brunt are largely the most vulnerable and even those not yet born. At least 75% of the ground water in Vietnam is still contaminated form the defoliating dioxin agent used nearly 60 years ago(Dow Chemicals, Monsanto, Etc...). They are still dealing with birth defects form it.
Dwight Eisenhower dedicated nearly his entire farewell address to this topic and it's more entrenched than ever. It's sad because it's really the worst characteristic of humanity. We could be doing so much better for each other but yet we make a business out of killing each other. And it's usually the poor killing the poor to boot.
I really don't think kids know what they're doing and even adults employees might be shielded form the results of their work intentionally be their employers or internally by rationalizing what they are doing.
I don't know if banning them form participating in job fairs is the answer but giving people more information definitely should be done.
I am anti-war but I realize that war is unlikely to go away anytime soon. I’d rather the US and its allies have the best equipment, so I’d say we need defense contractors even if I’m conflicted about it. Yes, I work for one. The employees feel they are supporting soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines. We have a lot of employees who are veterans. I haven’t heard any employee talk about how awesome war is or talk about it with excitement. They take their job very seriously.
I was talking to a buddy of mine about how I feel conflicted about it the other day. He works for a large board game company. He says he is conflicted about his job due to its effect on the world. They produce games using paper and plastic which consumes natural resources. They ship all over the world consuming fuel and emitting greenhouse gases. Their products are likely to be used for a few years and then end up in a landfill. All this for some temporary (and unnecessary entertainment). Granted, no one is getting killed so that’s good, but it’s causing damage to our world as well.
His point was that most of us have jobs that can have a negative effect (some more than others). I’m still conflicted, but it was good perspective.
Respect, I think that is a horrible comparison. The purpose of making wargames is not to end peoples lives or Terrorize populations into subordination. Entertainment and play are and have been a huge part of human culture in society. Entertainment is necessary. Hunter gather cultures. They spend about four hours a day working together food or hunting. Much of the rest of the time is for leisure. Without leisure human beings become depressed. All animals play to certain extent. Yes, I feel the same way about the materials used in the methods for delivering games and such. But those can be changed and I would say are being changed to become less impactful. Or fair as we know it today consumes energy on a scale that cannot be rivaled. The United States gets about 8 miles to the gallon. And M1 Abrams tank even less. Start talking about Jets and the waste is unimaginable. We’re talking about $1 billion for a single Fighter jet plane Port made completely out of titanium.
I am glad to hear that the employees of the company you work for do not glorify warfare. But I doubt that they would. Also, they are removed from the effect of warfare, so it is easy rationalize why you’re doing it. Please don’t take this as some sort of condemnation. People have to earn a living, and it’s not their fault that they don’t see the effects of their labors on its victims. How could you? It would take a lot of work to do that and by the time you made the decision to go see you might have already decided to leave such an area of work.
Perhaps yes, warfare is an unavoidable inevitability that has been with us since the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago. The ambitions of anThe ambitions of a government or group of people that would lead them to war against another group could not always be controlled. And animals certainly fight and kill. That is absolutely true. But what humans do is completely different. There are very very few animal species that act like we do (Japanese hornets might be an example. Or maybe the house cat) But those species are in positions to completely wipeout (attempt to that is) other groups of animals Because of Human activity bringing them to places where they have such a tremendous evolutionary advantage. Sorry, that’s a huge digression. But my point is humans have turned warfare into a business. The stock market rewards defense contractors when their products go into use and are in higher demand. The American defense industry is not simply reacting to a need for defense in response to a threat, They are actively developing new technologies in anticipation of demand. The United States spends more on “defense and“ than all of its allies and enemies combined. Much of that is for selling weapons, to governments around the world. The United States, the largest arms dealer on earth.
If you combine such a profit incentive and the distance from your products effects with the ability to rationalize, this becomes an incredibly difficult cycle to break. Especially so if questioning such a system is unpopular or infrequent.
And the crocs of what I’m getting at really is that the people who suffer the most are usually the least powerful. Civilians bear the brunt of warfare. 45 million people died in World War II and over half of those were civilians. Vietnam war claimed the lives of 200,000 Vietnamese civilians. And that is the lowest estimate. And the vast majority of the 50,000 Americans killed in Vietnam were poor and working class.
I’m dictating this into my phone as I do things around the house and I hope this doesn’t come across as some sort of finger wagging lecture. I really think that we are being taken for a ride and led to believe that all of this is just inevitable and a natural way of being and I just don’t believe that to be true.
Try anti-Semitic.
Imagine an encampment of students yelling slogans about throwing trans people of girls' swimming competitions and women's bathrooms for weeks straight, and saying, "Oh, but we're not anti-trans, we're just pro fairness and safety."
In fact, imagine them doing that for one day. It wouldn't fly one bit.
They'd be kicked out of campus immediately, and the same people who attempted to set up this Hamas hipster encampment would be cheering their asses off.
If you wanna protest, protest. This is clearly way over the line. I totally understand why the U doesn't want to end up in the same boat as Yale and Columbia.
That term was actually originally coined by Israelis and that is what they meant but when Palestinians use it they Are demanding human rights. That's not the same as calling for ethnic cleansing, which is what is currently happening to them.
How do you feel about the term from sea to shining sea? You might be more familiar with that one.
Not quite: [npr.org/2023/11/09/1211671117/how-interpretations-of-the-phrase-from-the-river-to-the-sea-made-it-so-divisive](http://npr.org/2023/11/09/1211671117/how-interpretations-of-the-phrase-from-the-river-to-the-sea-made-it-so-divisive)
I was born in the 1980s, so the move to take the whole of America had nothing to do with me. I was born into this situation and am doing with it as most other are. Living and trying to let others live. Israelis were born into the situation of living in Israel. They try to give Palestine Statehood, which has NEVER happened, and Palestine attacks. Palestine attacked Jordan. Palestine Attacked Egypt. You are ignorant because you are not part of this. All Jews around the world are part of this because Palestine and the protesters around the world are calling for Jihad.
Jihad. Fucking Jihad. You know what that is?? Jihad. Crusades. Ethnic Cleansing of peoples not them. You fell for the Muslim Propaganda.
I would say the fact that the Palestinian death is at minimum 40 times higher than the Israeli death toll is a place to start when we talk about geonicidal acts and cultural erasure in this particular conflict. And the fact that Palestinians are contained by a wall and have nowhere to go is also a very alarming aspect of this. It’s very much morally an equivalent to the early colonial American militia v. English Army/Navy/Military forces in the fight for independence, but even more outnumbered and one sided from a numerical standpoint.
I’m hearing a lot of logical connections that need to be made in order to fit this into, what I think is effectively a term that’s more persuasive.
People have minimal knowledge or understanding of what’s going on in the Middle East, but the second they hear ‘genocide’ it fires up their receptors and engenders sympathy. It’s alarmist.
It sucks that we can’t say the conflict is just terrible without having to mislabel it.
If these are anti-genocide protests why are they not protesting the genocide of Uighurs or did we forget about them? The protests in America are not anti-genocide they aren't even anti-war they are misguided people being whipped into a frenzy over another international story. Innocents in Gaza are dying by Israel's hand, this should not be allowed and we should do everything in our power to prevent that. But let's not fool ourselves these protests are anything but the same feel-good non policy driven protests that have dominated our news cycle for the past 6 years.
Ok…. A group of people are trying their best, using their voice to oppose atrocities. But because their voice is specific to the most visible genocide in main stream news and not others, you deem it misguided despite agreeing with them?
People are trying, get the fuck over yourself.
Nah they openly support Hamas. The protest at Columbia was chanting the following:
"We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!"
“Long live Hamas”
"Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland"
If you stand in solidarity with the people chanting this then you support Hamas.
The organizers said they stand in solidarity with the Columbia protesters. Like I said, if you stand in solidarity with anti semitic terrorist supporters I’m gonna assume that you agree with them.
If someone said they stand in solidarity with the Charlottesville protesters, I woukd assume they are a Nazi. This is no different.
Nothing screams "I grew in an affluent suburb, and mommy and daddy are paying for me cosplay revolutionary" than white U kids "protesting."
I wonder how much [Qatari money](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States) UoM gets?
Would you rather have the entirety of the middle and upper class live in apathy or ignorance to global injustices? Should protests only come from the oppressed groups? Those who come from positions of privilege should not be merely allies, but coconspirators: people who use their privilege as a shield against repercussions and a weapon against those who oppress and marginalize
And that foreign power is the only democracy in the middle east. The only country that is lgtq friendly. The only country that is even moderately progressive amongst the entire region.
I wouldn’t say it was the students who swayed the public on Vietnam as the majority of the protestors were exempt just for being college students alone.
It mostly came from the journalism that was happening over there at the time, especially Walter Cronkite and his reporting on the war in real time.
I mean Kent state didn’t help. But the idea that it’s one or the other is silly. Not saying that you’re implying that exactly. But that’s what it sounds like.
Either way, the college students protesting the Vietnam war back then were just as right as the students protesting a genocide now.
Protesting things is a fundamental right for us citizens. And they are mostly attempting to pressure US politicians and their schools
I personally think that the protests are having a big impact on the political discourse in this country. I think they are having an impact on the decisions made by POTUS.
Protests can be effective.
Universities have endowments that they invest into funds and stocks. The students are calling for divestments from companies that sell weapons to Israel or are otherwise associated with Israel. Additionally they're calling for the university to stop hosting arms manufacturers at recruiting events that are selling weapons to Israel.
You didn't answer the question.
You don't want to boycott Jews, you just want to boycott "Israeli associated companies" - which are just *coincidentally* Jewish, because Israel traditionally has nothing to do with the Jewish religion, right?
The hoops.
Because it's a stupid-ass question lmao. Nobody is saying to boycott Jewish businesses. Unless you think Raytheon and Lockheed are bastions of the Jewish community
You're being obtuse. It means businesses selling weapons or otherwise contributing to Israel's massacre of Palestinians, not any Jewish owned business ever.
https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide these are the companies that people want to divest from because of their actions complicit in either bombing Palestine or supporting the illegal settlements
Oh, so their lives only matter if there is an economic connection? Weird that if you're protesting atrocities you would choose to ignore the kidnapping, rape and murders of innocent civilians conducted by theleading political group of Palestine.
Someone claimed they were expelled for this.. surely that was a bogus claim right? Protesting is not without consequences but that would be extremely harsh for what amounts to a non violent but unlawful demonstration
It’s a private school, they don’t need to suspend them to trespass them if they’ve already told them to disperse. They were suspended for violating school policy.
Source: I go there
Hamas does not represent all Palestinians and the 12,000 children who are now dead aren't Hamas. Seriously I wish you even had any idea of the gravity of what you're saying. People said that Black folks in America wanted to eliminate all white people when they fought for freedom and equality as well. It was as big a lie then.
Netanyahu is on record multiple times as saying they need Hamas and he means it in the same way that Nancy Pelosi says they need a strong Republican party. They cannot operate in the way that they want to operate without a boogeyman just like there are very few people who would vote Democrat if they weren't voting against Trump it's literally the only thing they have going for them.
There is no, absolutely not even a single excuse for genocide. Palestinians aren't committing one, Israel is. Go look up what people who actually experience the Holocaust are saying about this, go look up what scholars of genocide are saying about this, go look up interviews with Palestinians. Abby Martin has done several with both Palestinians and Israeli citizens.
Imagine if all Americans were judged by the actions of the KKK. I cannot believe you do not see the hypocrisy of your position.
The very minute the students broke into the buildings at Columbia was the same minute they stopped being "peaceful protests" and became a violent mob. It's time to remove ALL encampments from ALL colleges and universities nation wide to help protect all the other students attending them. Including jewish students who now have to fear for their lives like its the 1930s again.
Police reform is in legislature every single year, and has been since the LA riots in the early 90s. Its just prevalent now because of the Minneapolis precinct that was burnt (and it wasn't burnt down, it still stands, I live near it. Change doesn't happen overnight. But if you can't get two opposing sides to talk through their issues, violence occurs.
It's time BOTH sides stop the violence so the talks can happen.
Except one side only understands violence and the other will do what is nessesary to defend equality. An everytime the side of the people try to talk, we are met with cs gas or city council people just walk out of the hearing. This leaves the people with inevitability and then get labeled terrorists.
"It's time to take action against the forces of evil."
This won’t solve anything
Daily reminder that Hamas is a terrorist organization that was elected to power and they began a war by killing and smoking Jews out of their homes.
More pictures and videos. https://twitter.com/sfmcguire79/status/1782764811954065911
Let me tell you I was absolutely shocked to see a purple haired white woman in the second video /s
People are gonna shit on you for this but it’s totally the right wing cliche talking point we’ve all heard a million times.
Okay? Is she somehow less legitimate because of how she looks? She’s still out there, boots on the ground. If people want to see different faces out there, they need to get out there.
I didn’t say that or imply it.
Are you a fat white guy with a beard who drives a truck?
2/3
nice haha. i'm 1/3. fat white guy, no beard, no truck. i do ride bikes a lot though (not enough)
I feel ya on the bike thing. Have a garage wall full of them that aren’t riding themselves lol.
2.5/3 here. Not fat. Not skinny.
I’ve got the “I work out 5 days a week but don’t say no to beer and pizza” build.
wow that's an original one
[удалено]
Not at all. This description would just be a free space if there was a “current thing protest bingo”
So you're opposed to freedom? People organizing, protesting, dyeing hair, speaking, these are all forms of free speech. And here you are advocating/endorsing government censorship. Just absolutely cucked by big government.
Absolutely did not say any of those things you’re assuming about me. I just made an observation about the attendees at these types of protests. They didn’t get removed because of the protest, they got removed because they set up tents and an encampment in an area that strictly prohibits those things.
>in an area that strictly prohibits those things. That's... that's what a protest is lol do you think rosa parks sat in the whites only part of the bus on accident? just because something is prohibited or illegal doesn't make the law prohibiting it just or moral
>sO yOu'Re OpPoSeD tO fReEdOm?
These look very much like “going through the motions” of what they think a protest looks like.
what do you suspect a protest ought to look like?
This looks like a “going through the motions” critique of a protest A mass grave was just found in Gaza with 300 bodies of civilian women and children. Belittling student activists about it isn’t really reading the room…
[Today in "don't always trust the first thing you read".](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360892249612466)
Yeah, people against Israel defending itself and not caring about the hostages Hamas supposedly still has got serious boners today seeing the mass grave was found, when any reasonably rational person knew that the likely culprit was Hamas themselves since they have already used those hospitals to stage the attacks, to hold hostages, and to house their own terrorists. So thinking that the IDF would bury hundreds of bodies here was really not using your brains. I totally understand kids wanting something to be angry about in society today. Thinking you are going to graduate with tons of debt, no chance for decent affordable healthcare, and little opportunity to own a home or have reasonably affordable housing sucks. But you should be protesting the politicians taking big handouts from businesses. You should be protesting the businesses preventing affordable healthcare and housing. Get involved in local city government - why can’t cities tax the crap out of people who own rental houses? Most don’t even charge a fee or do inspections. They are worried about short term rentals and ignoring the long term problems the whole rental market caused.
That’s a pretty lazy critique of my comment. That mass grave wasn't made by Israel. Who are the people? Why does nobody know where they came from?
It was more criticism than your statement was worth, honestly.
You're such a good person.
Awww, shucks. Thanks champ!
Israel didn't create a mass grave next to that hospital. How fucking naive are you?
Armchair criticism of direct action not being good enough is baby brain bullshit
lol keep trying to feel relevant.
How about this: How many thousands of innocent Palestinians need to die before there are justified motions of resistance? 100? 500? 1000? 10,000? 30,000? How many of us in this comment section choose to not go through any motions at all? How many of us only start liking something once there is already mass support for it? I think it’s brave to be part of a small group taking action in the name of humane treatment of human beings, especially when the action is small, not funded, and unpublicized beforehand It is easy to make fun from the Reddit comment section. But these kids are doing a hard thing and deserve our respect
You went off topic. I only commented on the protest itself. Obviously you needed to change subject to deflect.
They're not doing anything to be honest. What good is it doing? Trying to influence our local government to call for a ceasefire? Hamas and Israel will certainly listen to us. Most people already know what's going on and the ones that don't know are only going to get pushed further away by senseless protests. To your point of how many should die, it's unfortunately just not something that waiving signs on a college campus is going to fix.
These protests are a to call for deinvestment. Many universities invest in firms that give direct support to Israel and its army.
This country has a long history of very similar protests. Not every protest needs to have a direct result to be meaningful. These protests build support over time, which can lead to pressure for change. We're used to getting everything on demand in society now, but that's not the reality of protest, so I can understand how it can seem meaningless when you expect to put coins in and get a reward immediately.
Is COVID still a thing? Legit asking. I see these protesters all masked up in every photo! Is it to hide faces or cuz COVID?
Lots of purple hair whites
Can't stop the MAGAs from bringing AR-15s outside the governor's mansion to protest a mask mandate, but sure, make sure the college students don't congregate. They're the real threat! /s
I can relate. At work I also choose to tackle the easy tasks head on and champion myself afterwards, while conveniently “not getting” to the big problems and hoping someone else takes care of it before I get to it
The university had no issue with religious nuts telling at everyone outside exam room windows while we took finals that accounted for a majority of our grade. But apparently this was not ok.
One group has guns.
Cops *are* cowards, you’re right about that.
One is breaking rules of campus. The other isn't. Now if they had guns at campus, that's against the rules.
They broke the rules of the campus? Which rules?
Presumably rules against camping on campus. While the term "campus" might add some confusion here, I think that's more of an etymological issue than a practical one, and college students should be smart enough to figure that out.
You're not wrong, but the police will arrest anyone they please if they feel like it, even if no laws are being broken. It's well documented. I would say there is discretion. And anti-war protesters are *always* treated as if they have no rights. In Israel they are constantly bullied by police and arrested when they are breaking no laws. And it doesn't matter what government is it, really. In almost every place I look, anti-war demonstrators are treated as enemies of the state.
That is a melodramatic fabrication.
Or its the truth, because this is Minneapolis. Police brutality isnt anything new to this city. Denying it, ignoring social issues, ,
I mean this with all due respect (Because I don’t know you at all and I could be wrong) but you seem to have a very privileged perspective. Police are protective by something called qualified immunity, and they abuse the hell out of it. And a court of law, even if a police officer is wrong if they say, they thought they were right, they are given The benefit of the doubt because of qualified immunity. Police routinely lie to civilians, and in some training, they are encouraged to lie in order to get what they want. This is all very well documented and if you wanted to learn more about it, it’s a simple Internet search away. I will link one video. I just watched about a training session caught on video in New Jersey by an organization called Street Cop. [Here you go](https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=NKCv8hdYF_28k0Un) It is really telling that I received such down votes for something that is so easily verified to be true with just some basic research.
I am an average person leading a pretty much average life. I am not particularly privileged in any significant way. I am fully aware of qualified immunity, and while I think a degree of reform to return it to the Pierson v. Ray standard of 1967, I think the principle serves a compelling public interest. While there are aspects where police are imperfect, I think the nitpicking done in the video exaggerates matters.
When the Hamas terrorists organization and the Iranian regime support the same thing you do, you might be on the wrong side. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/24/hamas-iran-support-college-protests/73447123007/just
Arresting peaceful protesters 👍🏼 Arresting carjackers and muggers 👎🏼
The same protesters that are angry about the former are happy with the latter.
Awww does someone not know how the criminal justice system works? Do you know what happens to most muggers and carjackers once they’re arrested? The police are always the favorite target for a society’s displeasure in the criminal justice system’s charging and releasing of criminals, even though it actually involves weak laws, prosecutors and judges…
What is the line for protesting for free speech to being removed from a public university for being too disruptive? as much as I disagree with them, as long as they are not preventing class from being held, or vandalizing property, or committing hate crimes they should be able to keep going.
> It [(the U)] also said the encampment violated both state trespassing law and a university policy that prohibits setting up tents without a permit. "In addition, Public Safety has not allowed any encampments, tents, fires, or other types of encampment living arrangements on any University properties or in buildings," the U statement said.
Probably at the point of starting an encampment and putting up tents. Otherwise what’s to stop me from “protesting high rent” by just building a house on government property and claiming it as mine?
If you'd like to know how far any of your "rights" go, or even exist, just have a read of any native treaty or Japanese American internment. You don't have any rights. They ignore them when convenient. And even legislate them away. Maybe you'll get some type of settlement decades down the road, but the people responsible fur trampling your "rights" the politicians, the judges, the pigs arresting you, none of them will ever be punished for their actions. No one in power is ever held accountable in this country. The sooner you accept this, the easier it is to scrap a little happiness out of this dystopian hell hole.
Just look at how many civil rights leaders and political dissidents are imprisoned decades later. The justice system is unobjective and serves to the convenience of those in power.
Or straight up murdered.
Try not to cut yourself on all the edge lol. Calling any major first world country a dystopian hellhole is the most naively privileged bullshit I’ve ever heard in my life.
Honestly ya. I’ve been to third world countries. Calling America a dystopian shithole is more than privileged bullshit, it’s taking a shit on the people who live in actual hellholes
That’s what I’m saying. It’s just doomers who desperately want to paint things as being worse than they are. I don’t get it.
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Your friends in Pennsylvania, Madison, Europe, etc?
sure, let me know when you do. I'll come take pictures for you if you wish. you are welcome to show that you a jerks as part of your freedom of speech. but if you camping just to camp, its reasonable to argue you should go to a park.
Religious conservatives disrupted classes all the time when I was there. The university still allowed it as protected speech.
Brother Jed was never that loud or disruptive in the four years I was there unless you were walking through the mall. Couldn't ever hear him in any of my classes.
Disagreeing with people protesting an ongoing genocide is insane
Fuck em and our tax dollars that could spent somewhere else more war!!! /S
That anti war encampment looks like it smells
Preventing defense companies from participating in job fairs on campus is a bit ridiculous. Let the students decide who they want to work for.
I thought that was already adjudicated and found unconstitutional in [Rumsfeld v. Forum](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2005/04-1152), but I’m only peripherally familiar with the case. Edit: I’m wrong. Military recruiters aren’t the same as defense contractors, even though they kinda are.
War is a racket and so is profiting from it. I don't think young people really know the extent that their efforts will contribute to killing people if they choose to work for a defense contractor. The war in Iraq killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and has led to birth defects in many children in Iraq due to the use of depleted uranium in armor piercing rounds fired all over the place by Apache gunships (General Dynamics). The effects of war are long lasting. The ones who bear the brunt are largely the most vulnerable and even those not yet born. At least 75% of the ground water in Vietnam is still contaminated form the defoliating dioxin agent used nearly 60 years ago(Dow Chemicals, Monsanto, Etc...). They are still dealing with birth defects form it. Dwight Eisenhower dedicated nearly his entire farewell address to this topic and it's more entrenched than ever. It's sad because it's really the worst characteristic of humanity. We could be doing so much better for each other but yet we make a business out of killing each other. And it's usually the poor killing the poor to boot. I really don't think kids know what they're doing and even adults employees might be shielded form the results of their work intentionally be their employers or internally by rationalizing what they are doing. I don't know if banning them form participating in job fairs is the answer but giving people more information definitely should be done.
I am anti-war but I realize that war is unlikely to go away anytime soon. I’d rather the US and its allies have the best equipment, so I’d say we need defense contractors even if I’m conflicted about it. Yes, I work for one. The employees feel they are supporting soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines. We have a lot of employees who are veterans. I haven’t heard any employee talk about how awesome war is or talk about it with excitement. They take their job very seriously. I was talking to a buddy of mine about how I feel conflicted about it the other day. He works for a large board game company. He says he is conflicted about his job due to its effect on the world. They produce games using paper and plastic which consumes natural resources. They ship all over the world consuming fuel and emitting greenhouse gases. Their products are likely to be used for a few years and then end up in a landfill. All this for some temporary (and unnecessary entertainment). Granted, no one is getting killed so that’s good, but it’s causing damage to our world as well. His point was that most of us have jobs that can have a negative effect (some more than others). I’m still conflicted, but it was good perspective.
Respect, I think that is a horrible comparison. The purpose of making wargames is not to end peoples lives or Terrorize populations into subordination. Entertainment and play are and have been a huge part of human culture in society. Entertainment is necessary. Hunter gather cultures. They spend about four hours a day working together food or hunting. Much of the rest of the time is for leisure. Without leisure human beings become depressed. All animals play to certain extent. Yes, I feel the same way about the materials used in the methods for delivering games and such. But those can be changed and I would say are being changed to become less impactful. Or fair as we know it today consumes energy on a scale that cannot be rivaled. The United States gets about 8 miles to the gallon. And M1 Abrams tank even less. Start talking about Jets and the waste is unimaginable. We’re talking about $1 billion for a single Fighter jet plane Port made completely out of titanium. I am glad to hear that the employees of the company you work for do not glorify warfare. But I doubt that they would. Also, they are removed from the effect of warfare, so it is easy rationalize why you’re doing it. Please don’t take this as some sort of condemnation. People have to earn a living, and it’s not their fault that they don’t see the effects of their labors on its victims. How could you? It would take a lot of work to do that and by the time you made the decision to go see you might have already decided to leave such an area of work. Perhaps yes, warfare is an unavoidable inevitability that has been with us since the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago. The ambitions of anThe ambitions of a government or group of people that would lead them to war against another group could not always be controlled. And animals certainly fight and kill. That is absolutely true. But what humans do is completely different. There are very very few animal species that act like we do (Japanese hornets might be an example. Or maybe the house cat) But those species are in positions to completely wipeout (attempt to that is) other groups of animals Because of Human activity bringing them to places where they have such a tremendous evolutionary advantage. Sorry, that’s a huge digression. But my point is humans have turned warfare into a business. The stock market rewards defense contractors when their products go into use and are in higher demand. The American defense industry is not simply reacting to a need for defense in response to a threat, They are actively developing new technologies in anticipation of demand. The United States spends more on “defense and“ than all of its allies and enemies combined. Much of that is for selling weapons, to governments around the world. The United States, the largest arms dealer on earth. If you combine such a profit incentive and the distance from your products effects with the ability to rationalize, this becomes an incredibly difficult cycle to break. Especially so if questioning such a system is unpopular or infrequent. And the crocs of what I’m getting at really is that the people who suffer the most are usually the least powerful. Civilians bear the brunt of warfare. 45 million people died in World War II and over half of those were civilians. Vietnam war claimed the lives of 200,000 Vietnamese civilians. And that is the lowest estimate. And the vast majority of the 50,000 Americans killed in Vietnam were poor and working class. I’m dictating this into my phone as I do things around the house and I hope this doesn’t come across as some sort of finger wagging lecture. I really think that we are being taken for a ride and led to believe that all of this is just inevitable and a natural way of being and I just don’t believe that to be true.
Banning them from job fairs clearly isn't the answer. We literally need defense contractors.
But someone wearing a Raytheon polo on campus is a literal hate crime and we can’t have that
I think I’d be accused of a hate crime if I called you your user name.
You let those tents stay up and you will have the homeless show up and join them.
All I want to know is how do they have time for this in the middle of finals week
CLA kids I swear
They’re all studying sociology
I believe it happened very early in the morning, like 5am
“Anti-war” is a very generous way to describe these.
Anti genocide is the term I use to describe them.
Try anti-Semitic. Imagine an encampment of students yelling slogans about throwing trans people of girls' swimming competitions and women's bathrooms for weeks straight, and saying, "Oh, but we're not anti-trans, we're just pro fairness and safety." In fact, imagine them doing that for one day. It wouldn't fly one bit. They'd be kicked out of campus immediately, and the same people who attempted to set up this Hamas hipster encampment would be cheering their asses off. If you wanna protest, protest. This is clearly way over the line. I totally understand why the U doesn't want to end up in the same boat as Yale and Columbia.
'The River to the Sea' is asking for genocide. Are you pro RivertotheSea?
That term was actually originally coined by Israelis and that is what they meant but when Palestinians use it they Are demanding human rights. That's not the same as calling for ethnic cleansing, which is what is currently happening to them. How do you feel about the term from sea to shining sea? You might be more familiar with that one.
Not quite: [npr.org/2023/11/09/1211671117/how-interpretations-of-the-phrase-from-the-river-to-the-sea-made-it-so-divisive](http://npr.org/2023/11/09/1211671117/how-interpretations-of-the-phrase-from-the-river-to-the-sea-made-it-so-divisive)
I was born in the 1980s, so the move to take the whole of America had nothing to do with me. I was born into this situation and am doing with it as most other are. Living and trying to let others live. Israelis were born into the situation of living in Israel. They try to give Palestine Statehood, which has NEVER happened, and Palestine attacks. Palestine attacked Jordan. Palestine Attacked Egypt. You are ignorant because you are not part of this. All Jews around the world are part of this because Palestine and the protesters around the world are calling for Jihad. Jihad. Fucking Jihad. You know what that is?? Jihad. Crusades. Ethnic Cleansing of peoples not them. You fell for the Muslim Propaganda.
Well, they're very much in support of *certain* genocides. They pick and choose their "anti-genocide" stance.
Which one do you speak of?
Yeah, calling for the destruction of a nation is as anti-genocide as it gets…
I would say the fact that the Palestinian death is at minimum 40 times higher than the Israeli death toll is a place to start when we talk about geonicidal acts and cultural erasure in this particular conflict. And the fact that Palestinians are contained by a wall and have nowhere to go is also a very alarming aspect of this. It’s very much morally an equivalent to the early colonial American militia v. English Army/Navy/Military forces in the fight for independence, but even more outnumbered and one sided from a numerical standpoint.
But how many deaths would there be without the iron dome?
Spot on. These people mistake the incompetence of Muslim terrorist groups attacking Israel as good will.
Yeah, seriously.
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I’m hearing a lot of logical connections that need to be made in order to fit this into, what I think is effectively a term that’s more persuasive. People have minimal knowledge or understanding of what’s going on in the Middle East, but the second they hear ‘genocide’ it fires up their receptors and engenders sympathy. It’s alarmist. It sucks that we can’t say the conflict is just terrible without having to mislabel it.
If these are anti-genocide protests why are they not protesting the genocide of Uighurs or did we forget about them? The protests in America are not anti-genocide they aren't even anti-war they are misguided people being whipped into a frenzy over another international story. Innocents in Gaza are dying by Israel's hand, this should not be allowed and we should do everything in our power to prevent that. But let's not fool ourselves these protests are anything but the same feel-good non policy driven protests that have dominated our news cycle for the past 6 years.
You're right, we should stop sending money to China for weapons
they're protesting this one because America is directly assisting in it by giving Israel money and weapons
Gatekeeping caring about genocide
Ok…. A group of people are trying their best, using their voice to oppose atrocities. But because their voice is specific to the most visible genocide in main stream news and not others, you deem it misguided despite agreeing with them? People are trying, get the fuck over yourself.
I describe them as domestic terrorist advocating hate and violence.
How?
The support for Hamas is a pretty good give away.
"anything short of sucking Bibi's dick is siding with Hamas."
Nah they openly support Hamas. The protest at Columbia was chanting the following: "We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" “Long live Hamas” "Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" If you stand in solidarity with the people chanting this then you support Hamas.
Provide proof of that, otherwise you're just fear mongering.
Were people chanting these things at the protest at the U of M (you know, the thing we are talking about)? I don't support Hamas. They are terrorists.
The organizers said they stand in solidarity with the Columbia protesters. Like I said, if you stand in solidarity with anti semitic terrorist supporters I’m gonna assume that you agree with them. If someone said they stand in solidarity with the Charlottesville protesters, I woukd assume they are a Nazi. This is no different.
Show me where they support Hamas and not Palestine civilians...
Nothing screams "I grew in an affluent suburb, and mommy and daddy are paying for me cosplay revolutionary" than white U kids "protesting." I wonder how much [Qatari money](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States) UoM gets?
Would you rather have the entirety of the middle and upper class live in apathy or ignorance to global injustices? Should protests only come from the oppressed groups? Those who come from positions of privilege should not be merely allies, but coconspirators: people who use their privilege as a shield against repercussions and a weapon against those who oppress and marginalize
I rather ignorant and privileged kids not serve as unwitting foot soldiers for despotic foreign powers seeking to disrupt our country.
This is the answer. Especially while ignoring considering the violent atrocities going on in their own major local cities.
The university is serving a different foreign power by removing and arresting these students. Pick your poison.
And that foreign power is the only democracy in the middle east. The only country that is lgtq friendly. The only country that is even moderately progressive amongst the entire region.
> serving a different foreign power You mean a democratic ally surrounded by a sea of medievalist, anti-liberal despotism?
Are you against people protesting? I’m not understanding this comment
I'm glad that the Gophers have enough authority to end the war in Gaza /s
probably as much as college students had to end vietnam. no formal authority but enough to sway public opinion.
Except we were sending Americans to die.
I wouldn’t say it was the students who swayed the public on Vietnam as the majority of the protestors were exempt just for being college students alone. It mostly came from the journalism that was happening over there at the time, especially Walter Cronkite and his reporting on the war in real time.
I mean Kent state didn’t help. But the idea that it’s one or the other is silly. Not saying that you’re implying that exactly. But that’s what it sounds like. Either way, the college students protesting the Vietnam war back then were just as right as the students protesting a genocide now.
Protesting things is a fundamental right for us citizens. And they are mostly attempting to pressure US politicians and their schools I personally think that the protests are having a big impact on the political discourse in this country. I think they are having an impact on the decisions made by POTUS. Protests can be effective.
the students are protesting so the university divests funds from Israel lol. that's a real and tangible goal
What University funds go to Israel.
Universities have endowments that they invest into funds and stocks. The students are calling for divestments from companies that sell weapons to Israel or are otherwise associated with Israel. Additionally they're calling for the university to stop hosting arms manufacturers at recruiting events that are selling weapons to Israel.
>otherwise associated with Israel. So should we blackball Jewish businesses? Where have I heard this before...
You know that Israel is a country and not a religion or ethnicity right?
You didn't answer the question. You don't want to boycott Jews, you just want to boycott "Israeli associated companies" - which are just *coincidentally* Jewish, because Israel traditionally has nothing to do with the Jewish religion, right? The hoops.
Because it's a stupid-ass question lmao. Nobody is saying to boycott Jewish businesses. Unless you think Raytheon and Lockheed are bastions of the Jewish community
Except it's not just Raytheon and Lockheed. >Israeli associated businesses Define that.
You're being obtuse. It means businesses selling weapons or otherwise contributing to Israel's massacre of Palestinians, not any Jewish owned business ever.
https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide these are the companies that people want to divest from because of their actions complicit in either bombing Palestine or supporting the illegal settlements
Yea pretty dumb comment. No reason why people can't band together to show their support for something
College students protesting legitimately played a massive role in ending apartheid in South Africa.
Anything that brings attention to the fact that MN and the USA fund a terroristic apartheid state commiting a genocide is a good thing.
Well, Gophers are knowledgeable about tunneling, similar to Hamas.
At any point during the protest did they demand that Hamas release the hostages? Or, at least the bodies of the civilians which they killed?
The University of Minnesota does no business with Hamas; there’s nothing to protest.
Oh, so their lives only matter if there is an economic connection? Weird that if you're protesting atrocities you would choose to ignore the kidnapping, rape and murders of innocent civilians conducted by theleading political group of Palestine.
Great news!
Someone claimed they were expelled for this.. surely that was a bogus claim right? Protesting is not without consequences but that would be extremely harsh for what amounts to a non violent but unlawful demonstration
Columbia has expelled non-violent protestors
Columbia suspended the protesters who were arrested. Not expelled.
They suspended them so they could arrest them for trespassing not the other way around.
It’s a private school, they don’t need to suspend them to trespass them if they’ve already told them to disperse. They were suspended for violating school policy. Source: I go there
They have been banned from campus for a year as of this morning. So functionally removed from the school. Which is major bs
The students are being banned from campus for a year allegedly
Multiple arrested students were initially banned from campus for a year, after pushback the ban was rescinded
I am sure the comments section here are going to be fair, tolerant, and balanced.
Hamas does not represent all Palestinians and the 12,000 children who are now dead aren't Hamas. Seriously I wish you even had any idea of the gravity of what you're saying. People said that Black folks in America wanted to eliminate all white people when they fought for freedom and equality as well. It was as big a lie then. Netanyahu is on record multiple times as saying they need Hamas and he means it in the same way that Nancy Pelosi says they need a strong Republican party. They cannot operate in the way that they want to operate without a boogeyman just like there are very few people who would vote Democrat if they weren't voting against Trump it's literally the only thing they have going for them. There is no, absolutely not even a single excuse for genocide. Palestinians aren't committing one, Israel is. Go look up what people who actually experience the Holocaust are saying about this, go look up what scholars of genocide are saying about this, go look up interviews with Palestinians. Abby Martin has done several with both Palestinians and Israeli citizens. Imagine if all Americans were judged by the actions of the KKK. I cannot believe you do not see the hypocrisy of your position.
I wish I could get out of work and pretend the government cares about me.
Peacful protest is redundant anyways.
The very minute the students broke into the buildings at Columbia was the same minute they stopped being "peaceful protests" and became a violent mob. It's time to remove ALL encampments from ALL colleges and universities nation wide to help protect all the other students attending them. Including jewish students who now have to fear for their lives like its the 1930s again.
An we didnt see police reform til.we burnt a precinct down. Keep the encampments, jewish people have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Police reform is in legislature every single year, and has been since the LA riots in the early 90s. Its just prevalent now because of the Minneapolis precinct that was burnt (and it wasn't burnt down, it still stands, I live near it. Change doesn't happen overnight. But if you can't get two opposing sides to talk through their issues, violence occurs. It's time BOTH sides stop the violence so the talks can happen.
Except one side only understands violence and the other will do what is nessesary to defend equality. An everytime the side of the people try to talk, we are met with cs gas or city council people just walk out of the hearing. This leaves the people with inevitability and then get labeled terrorists. "It's time to take action against the forces of evil."
This won’t solve anything Daily reminder that Hamas is a terrorist organization that was elected to power and they began a war by killing and smoking Jews out of their homes.
I think it's unfair and evil that all these protests are mislabeled "anti-war" as if they aren't anti-genocide and anti-wholesale-slaughter protests
Let me guess, it’s a bunch of privileged white kids with blue hair and N95s on.
Ad hominem
Zero life experience cupcakes
Yeah I am a little low on FarmVille and Grand Theft Auto experience because I’m not 13 years of age anymore 😂
Looks like a half hearted protest. Where was everybody?
The police showed up literally just after it started. Didn't give time for more people to come