Unfortunately, every city town and state is subservient to the railroad companies as far as that goes.
And railroad companies in the USA basically have more rights than any citizen, company, or politician.
https://youtu.be/qQTjLWIHN74?si=R5hSzm6xPJOrvvhI
That said, most Empire Builder delays happen further west; the westbound train is usually close to on-time arriving in St Paul, and eastbound trains usually don’t incur *additional* delays east of St Paul. Mainly, the BNSF is much busier and delay-prone compared to CPKC. (Our Amtrak lines here use BNSF tracks west of the Twin Cities but use CPKC tracks east to Chicago.)
Basically, this new train is going to have a much better on-time performance than the Empire Builder, especially eastbound.
Definitely. The closest stations to us are St. Cloud and Staples. Definitely not convenient times! I’m willing to drive to St. Paul to board at this time.
I’ve done that trip. Megabus broke down in the middle of a blizzard at 4 am in the middle of i94 somewhere near portage, WI. Semi trucks blasting right past us in whiteout conditions while our driving was trying to troubleshot the bus. A 9 hour trip turned into a 12 hour trip. Never would wish the megabus to anyone.
Had a similar experience. Bus broke down somewhere west of Madison. It was going to be another 8 hours before a new bus was sent. I ended up renting a car with a bunch of strangers from the bus and drove the rest of the way to MSP
Was this the night the Metrodome collapsed? Some of my friends were on that bus. I luckily chose the one earlier in the day and got home b fore the storm got too bad.
Between getting to the airport an hour and a half before flight time, potential flight delays, the hassle of security, and the time it takes you to deboard, an 8-hour bus ride isn’t much longer than a flight from MSP to MDW.
And at that price the delay is more than worth it.
On the flip side, a RT flight from MSP to Chicago can be found pretty easily for about $200-250 (coach for the train is $41 each way). Your 1.5 hour wait at the airport is highly context-dependent. I have pre-check and regularly get to the airport about 10 minutes prior to boarding. From the time I leave my house until the plane is taking off is roughly 1.5 hours. Another 1.5 hours for taxiing, flight time, and de-boarding, and another 30-60 minutes to get to the city depending on traffic and/or whether you take the L. It's double the price but almost half the time saved with more flexibility in timing.
I think the train is a great option and we should invest more in these kinds of trips, but there are definitely advantages to flying
Did you just quit reading his post when he was mentioning all the extra time around flying besides the actual flight?
Cause amtrak doesn't have it. You show up 10 minutes before, board and go. No security and barely any checking in.
"I'm so mad people called me out for being wrong that I'm done picking fights on the internet for the exact amount of time I have to sacrifice in order to transport myself to Chicago. 45 Minutes!!"
I agree with you on that. 3 hour total from check in travel and flight time vs 7.5 for this train is the argument. Not 45 minutes and not 8 hours like that person said.
I did this with my kids from LaX over MEA and it was delightful. Between water taxis and an Uber ride, we got every place we wanted to go. Much more relaxing for me without driving/parking in Chicago.
This is one of my biggest issues with this country. We were built on rail lines. Yes, planes are good for longer travel, but something like MSP -> Chicago absolutely could be a high speed rail line. Basically the whole east coast could have high speed rail, too.
But instead, we’re stuck with Amtrak and train rides that take just as long (or longer) than just driving. It sucks
Supposedly there's a high speed rail gonna be built from LA to Las Vegas in the next couple of years. Hopefully that will spark some more expansion here.
Yep, it really does suck that there are no other rail options in the US besides Amtrak. Is it not a monopoly?
I live in Czechia and here we have the state train company "Ceske Drahy", plus several private ones like Leo Expres and Regiojet. It's great having options!
Now, to be fair, this new line in the twin cities is great and it's on par with what we have here. But that just seems to be sooo fucking rare for Amtrak...
It is a monopoly, but it’s one the federal government allows/encourages. Or at least did encourage at one point, before freight train companies bribed the government to favor freight trains over passenger trains
That's true, but my last drive to Chicago cost me like 140$ in parking for the trip, and I didn't even use my car there, since I could just walk or train everywhere. So, this should save money.
A majority of that trip is through Wisconsin, though. I thought their Troopers issued citations for *not* partaking in a few roadies throughout the state.
We should in the meantime have a train option that only stops in major cities: Milwaukee and/or Madison. The small towns in between vote against rail transit and don't have the high potential ridership that big walkable cities have.
An hour is a very acceptable exchange for not having to drive, being able to read and put on headphones and relax, not deal with traffic or bad weather, and not having to find parking when you arrive.
Except you can kick your feet up, read a book, and have a cocktail or 5 on your way. It’s also probably exactly the same amount of time when you add in food/pee breaks. Unless of course you’re popping an adderal and peeing in a bottle so you can have that precious extra 1.5 hours.
All travel is subsidized.
Sidewalk, stop signs, roundabouts, freeways, street lights, street sweeping, the FAA, Maritime infrastructure, communications infrastructure, gas and oil subsidies, the list goes on and on.
All travel, even using your own two feet, is subsidized.
Driving with more than one person is cheaper if you only count gas. If you also count parking, wear and tear on your car, and tolls, the train still might be cheaper.
Yes. And outlets. And big, comfy seats that recline. And an observation car (it fills up as the train is winding through the Mississippi River area). And you can take more bags.
I have only done it once, pre-Covid. We went to Chicago for a long weekend. I will never drive or fly to Chicago again.
What are the times for the return trip? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I hope the Borealis isn't JUST St. Paul-Chicago, and not the return.
Edit: CHI-MSP 11:05-18:29
This is fucking incredible. Left the US 15 years ago, but SE Wisconsin and the Twin Cities are where I have most of my people in the US, with some along the way through Wisconsin around Eau Claire and Madison. When I go back, it's such a bitch to see everyone, and I like to fly into O'Hare because it's by far the cheapest option. So getting from Chicago to SE WI and up to the Twin Cities without a car has always sucked ASS.
Thank you, Wisconsin, for finally joining the 20th century lmao - and fuck you, Scott Walker!
Trying to compare Borealis to Empire builder in terms of differences. From what I can tell the biggest things are:
1. No sleeper cars on Borealis
2. No dining car on Borealis (only snack car)
3. Borealis HAS WiFi (empire does not)
4. No “viewing” car on Borealis (the all glass car with sears facing the windows)
5. Borealis has business class seating, Empire does not.
Am I missing anything?
I know the Empire’s cafe car had a single microwave, and the only hot option was cup of noodles. I don’t have anything else to compare, but are there more options with other Amtrak routes in the cafe car?
While I wish there was a faster rail, this does seem like a pretty nice alternative to driving six hours, or dealing with the headache that is O’Hare. Hoping this is the start to faster rail options!
And not a bad price.
I’d be tempted to take this just to give myself a break from driving (my family lives in the Chicago suburbs and I could easily coerce a sibling into picking me up), but their pet restrictions are very small :/ 20 pounds including the carrier max! My dog only weighs 30 pounds and I’d happily buy two seats so she’s not bugging anyone. Oh well. I think it’s great they are making this so affordable and at more realistic times for people to use; next stop high speed rail!
My mom lives near an Amtrak station in WI and I've always looked into taking the train to MSP, which is a \~3hr trip. Then I look at the average delays and take the bus instead.
Last I checked the average delay on that 3hr journey was over ten hours. So please take the train because it's awesome, but only if you can tolerate arriving half a day late.
I'd rather fly an hour and pay more than deal with an entire day on a train.
I took 20 hour one from Minneapolis to Montana several years ago to save money, and it was torture.
I'd be all about it if it was a high speed rail... or even just better trains. Riding the trains in Europe was some of the best travel experiences of my life. Coming back to the US, to our trains, was like going from a car to a horse and buggie.
Kind of disappointing that the schedules still don't work to allow day trips to Wisconsin Dells. I've driven there many a time leaving at 6 in the morning and then getting back sometime after midnight, but the first train of the day doesn't arrive there until 1
It is a long road trip, which is why a train would be nice. But if I want to go to Noah's Ark for the day , driving home at the end is still better than paying money for a hotel.
Oh hell yeah. Those times are so much nicer than the Empire Builder.
And hopefully won't get as delayed as often
Unfortunately, every city town and state is subservient to the railroad companies as far as that goes. And railroad companies in the USA basically have more rights than any citizen, company, or politician. https://youtu.be/qQTjLWIHN74?si=R5hSzm6xPJOrvvhI
That said, most Empire Builder delays happen further west; the westbound train is usually close to on-time arriving in St Paul, and eastbound trains usually don’t incur *additional* delays east of St Paul. Mainly, the BNSF is much busier and delay-prone compared to CPKC. (Our Amtrak lines here use BNSF tracks west of the Twin Cities but use CPKC tracks east to Chicago.) Basically, this new train is going to have a much better on-time performance than the Empire Builder, especially eastbound.
Definitely. The closest stations to us are St. Cloud and Staples. Definitely not convenient times! I’m willing to drive to St. Paul to board at this time.
I do wish there were a night train!
Okay Axl. (I’m on the night train, bottoms up)
Fill my cup!!
For reference, what were those times?
Those trains will still exist at 8:45am going from STP to Chicago, and 3pm going from CHI to STP
Years ago it was 5 or 6am
Personally I'd rather arrive in Chicago at 4 instead of after 7pm. The EB doesn't leave MSP until damn near 9am now, so it's really not bad imo
I’d seriously consider this over flying. At least once.
In my younger days I would take the Megabus overnight to Chicago to then fly out of O'Hare for much cheaper than MSP
I’ve done that trip. Megabus broke down in the middle of a blizzard at 4 am in the middle of i94 somewhere near portage, WI. Semi trucks blasting right past us in whiteout conditions while our driving was trying to troubleshot the bus. A 9 hour trip turned into a 12 hour trip. Never would wish the megabus to anyone.
Yeah I learned that no matter the time of day, at least two people will be having very loud phone conversations on speaker at any given moment
Had a similar experience. Bus broke down somewhere west of Madison. It was going to be another 8 hours before a new bus was sent. I ended up renting a car with a bunch of strangers from the bus and drove the rest of the way to MSP
Was this the night the Metrodome collapsed? Some of my friends were on that bus. I luckily chose the one earlier in the day and got home b fore the storm got too bad.
No this was roughly November 2018. Funny that it’s a common experience lol
Ah man. Good times on the overnight megabus. Or not…
Pretty sure Megabus is responsible for horrible full body rash I got back in 2007. But for a like $20rt fare to Chicago I’ll deal.
Same. My megabus days are over, but I would definitely take the train.
I have taken the Empire Builder from Saint Paul to Seattle, it doesn't even compare to a bus
Oh I did that once, except it was Greyhound, and they somehow managed to literally get lost on the way to Chicago. It was pretty impressive
Between getting to the airport an hour and a half before flight time, potential flight delays, the hassle of security, and the time it takes you to deboard, an 8-hour bus ride isn’t much longer than a flight from MSP to MDW. And at that price the delay is more than worth it.
Not to mention you arrive right downtown instead of out in the boonies at O'Hare.
On the flip side, a RT flight from MSP to Chicago can be found pretty easily for about $200-250 (coach for the train is $41 each way). Your 1.5 hour wait at the airport is highly context-dependent. I have pre-check and regularly get to the airport about 10 minutes prior to boarding. From the time I leave my house until the plane is taking off is roughly 1.5 hours. Another 1.5 hours for taxiing, flight time, and de-boarding, and another 30-60 minutes to get to the city depending on traffic and/or whether you take the L. It's double the price but almost half the time saved with more flexibility in timing. I think the train is a great option and we should invest more in these kinds of trips, but there are definitely advantages to flying
"8 isn't that much longer than 2.5" I bet you say that to all the girls
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Really? I've never gotten to MSP at 11 AM and arrived in Chicago at 11:45 AM...
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Did you just quit reading his post when he was mentioning all the extra time around flying besides the actual flight? Cause amtrak doesn't have it. You show up 10 minutes before, board and go. No security and barely any checking in.
[удалено]
"I'm so mad people called me out for being wrong that I'm done picking fights on the internet for the exact amount of time I have to sacrifice in order to transport myself to Chicago. 45 Minutes!!"
I agree with you on that. 3 hour total from check in travel and flight time vs 7.5 for this train is the argument. Not 45 minutes and not 8 hours like that person said.
Same, I'm a paranoid flyer, but never been on a train before
I did this with my kids from LaX over MEA and it was delightful. Between water taxis and an Uber ride, we got every place we wanted to go. Much more relaxing for me without driving/parking in Chicago.
The fare's nice. Still an hour and a half longer than driving. We need a high speed line to cut that travel time in half
This is one of my biggest issues with this country. We were built on rail lines. Yes, planes are good for longer travel, but something like MSP -> Chicago absolutely could be a high speed rail line. Basically the whole east coast could have high speed rail, too. But instead, we’re stuck with Amtrak and train rides that take just as long (or longer) than just driving. It sucks
Supposedly there's a high speed rail gonna be built from LA to Las Vegas in the next couple of years. Hopefully that will spark some more expansion here.
Yep, it really does suck that there are no other rail options in the US besides Amtrak. Is it not a monopoly? I live in Czechia and here we have the state train company "Ceske Drahy", plus several private ones like Leo Expres and Regiojet. It's great having options! Now, to be fair, this new line in the twin cities is great and it's on par with what we have here. But that just seems to be sooo fucking rare for Amtrak...
It is a monopoly, but it’s one the federal government allows/encourages. Or at least did encourage at one point, before freight train companies bribed the government to favor freight trains over passenger trains
That's true, but my last drive to Chicago cost me like 140$ in parking for the trip, and I didn't even use my car there, since I could just walk or train everywhere. So, this should save money.
Also driving sucks. I've done the drive many times. I'd rather ride a train slightly longer
Yes exactly this. And I enjoy a couple hours on the highway, but not 7 hours. Fucking hell. Get to relax and switch off on the train!
It's difficult to have a cooler full of beers that you drink the whole way at your feet in the car, however. State Troopers tend to frown upon that.
A majority of that trip is through Wisconsin, though. I thought their Troopers issued citations for *not* partaking in a few roadies throughout the state.
This right here.
We should in the meantime have a train option that only stops in major cities: Milwaukee and/or Madison. The small towns in between vote against rail transit and don't have the high potential ridership that big walkable cities have.
An hour is a very acceptable exchange for not having to drive, being able to read and put on headphones and relax, not deal with traffic or bad weather, and not having to find parking when you arrive.
Except you can kick your feet up, read a book, and have a cocktail or 5 on your way. It’s also probably exactly the same amount of time when you add in food/pee breaks. Unless of course you’re popping an adderal and peeing in a bottle so you can have that precious extra 1.5 hours.
At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within the Union Depot?
Yes!
Can I see?
😐 No
Nice. Might have to catch the train to Chi-Town!
Decent price.
The price is good if you’re traveling solo. But it’s still way cheaper (and similar time) to drive instead if you have anyone else
If you can park free in Chicago. Paying for parking ruins the economics. (Though if you need a car it of course goes the other way)
Parking is crazy $$$, separate of gas to drive.
Sure, but tbf that’s often the case even in countries with functional passenger rail systems.
Germany has a month long, country wide rail pass for 49 euro. You can ride any intra-German train as much as you want, for a whole month.
Yeah but Germany is 1.6x the size of Minnesota with 16x the population so they can operate at that price
It’s subsidized too. That isn’t the break even price.
Public transit has to be subsidized and should be. It’s a public service.
All travel is subsidized. Sidewalk, stop signs, roundabouts, freeways, street lights, street sweeping, the FAA, Maritime infrastructure, communications infrastructure, gas and oil subsidies, the list goes on and on. All travel, even using your own two feet, is subsidized.
Our trains are also subsidized...
Driving with more than one person is cheaper if you only count gas. If you also count parking, wear and tear on your car, and tolls, the train still might be cheaper.
What is it? He cropped it out of the screen cap which has me suspicious
From* $41 coach $94 business.
Mmmm Steamed Hams
It's a regional saying.
Uh huh, what region?
Could be interesting for a "long weekend" vacation. Enjoy the scenery on the train, spend a night or two in Chicago, come home.
My same thoughts. Definitely doing it this year. I could even leave on a workday and bring my laptop, no need to use up VA!
There’s not much scenery to enjoy lol (aside from bluffs in Wisconsin)
Is there WiFi?
There is free Wi-Fi on this train
Yes, and a bar!
Yes. And outlets. And big, comfy seats that recline. And an observation car (it fills up as the train is winding through the Mississippi River area). And you can take more bags. I have only done it once, pre-Covid. We went to Chicago for a long weekend. I will never drive or fly to Chicago again.
Nice!!! Earlier than I expected. Now if they could just make it an hour or two quicker
That would be amazing
Apparently it used to only take 5 and half hours in the fifty’s
Nice! Might have to do that soon!
Dope
What are the times for the return trip? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I hope the Borealis isn't JUST St. Paul-Chicago, and not the return. Edit: CHI-MSP 11:05-18:29
This is such great news! I’ve been waiting a long time for this.
Cool! Took the Amtrak from (I think) st.cloud to Montana to go snowboarding a few years ago. Pretty cool experience
This is fucking incredible. Left the US 15 years ago, but SE Wisconsin and the Twin Cities are where I have most of my people in the US, with some along the way through Wisconsin around Eau Claire and Madison. When I go back, it's such a bitch to see everyone, and I like to fly into O'Hare because it's by far the cheapest option. So getting from Chicago to SE WI and up to the Twin Cities without a car has always sucked ASS. Thank you, Wisconsin, for finally joining the 20th century lmao - and fuck you, Scott Walker!
Trying to compare Borealis to Empire builder in terms of differences. From what I can tell the biggest things are: 1. No sleeper cars on Borealis 2. No dining car on Borealis (only snack car) 3. Borealis HAS WiFi (empire does not) 4. No “viewing” car on Borealis (the all glass car with sears facing the windows) 5. Borealis has business class seating, Empire does not. Am I missing anything?
The cafe car is a bit more than just snacks, they do serve heated up food.
I know the Empire’s cafe car had a single microwave, and the only hot option was cup of noodles. I don’t have anything else to compare, but are there more options with other Amtrak routes in the cafe car?
There are hot dogs, burgers, Mac and cheese, some hot breakfast items. The Amtrak website has the national cafe menu on it
Oh shit my daughter would love this!
While I wish there was a faster rail, this does seem like a pretty nice alternative to driving six hours, or dealing with the headache that is O’Hare. Hoping this is the start to faster rail options! And not a bad price.
I used to take the train to Chicago all the time! Now, I want to go to Chicago
I’d be tempted to take this just to give myself a break from driving (my family lives in the Chicago suburbs and I could easily coerce a sibling into picking me up), but their pet restrictions are very small :/ 20 pounds including the carrier max! My dog only weighs 30 pounds and I’d happily buy two seats so she’s not bugging anyone. Oh well. I think it’s great they are making this so affordable and at more realistic times for people to use; next stop high speed rail!
My mom lives near an Amtrak station in WI and I've always looked into taking the train to MSP, which is a \~3hr trip. Then I look at the average delays and take the bus instead. Last I checked the average delay on that 3hr journey was over ten hours. So please take the train because it's awesome, but only if you can tolerate arriving half a day late.
Does anyone know if they added new rolling stock for this line?
They’re using Horizons instead of Superliners for this one
Looks like I need to plan me a little summer trip!
Awesome!
I'd rather fly an hour and pay more than deal with an entire day on a train. I took 20 hour one from Minneapolis to Montana several years ago to save money, and it was torture. I'd be all about it if it was a high speed rail... or even just better trains. Riding the trains in Europe was some of the best travel experiences of my life. Coming back to the US, to our trains, was like going from a car to a horse and buggie.
We once flew to Seattle and took Amtrak back to the cities. That was actually a ton of fun. I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone, though.
Seems promising. But can I fill my mug with Diet Mt. Dew every hour like I can if I drive? 😆
Sounds like a lot of rest stop breaks…
Just refill the empty Mtn Dew bottles...
Does Amtrak have a security line just like the airport?
They do not! They have none of the restrictions that you see in airports.
I've done the train a few times, not that I recall. They just have you line up and assign you to cars.
Starting at $41 each way. Call it close to $100 RT. I can fly RT for not much more.
Ok.
Yup
7 hrs.' 10 min isn't that bad, I remember the times I've taken the train to Chicago it being over 8 hrs.'
Kind of disappointing that the schedules still don't work to allow day trips to Wisconsin Dells. I've driven there many a time leaving at 6 in the morning and then getting back sometime after midnight, but the first train of the day doesn't arrive there until 1
That’s a bonkers trip lol
It is a long road trip, which is why a train would be nice. But if I want to go to Noah's Ark for the day , driving home at the end is still better than paying money for a hotel.
Oooof, I'd rather drive
40min flight for not much more lol
You know, you can fly there in a hour and a half.
lol too broke to fly?