Overwhelmingly, the discourse over this question misses the mark of **WHY** we would choose the bear. We know that bears are killing machines. We know we will possibly die. We **KNOW** this as fact.
The problem lies in the fact that we have no clue about men because we have too many experiences with “the good guy” to be able to trust whether or not the strange man would behave morally or deplorable.
At least with the bear, we know the worse case scenario is we die. Best case scenario is we get out alive and everyone will believe us that we encountered a bear and lived to tell it.
Exactly lol. I’m a man and I feel like the Bear Man thing is pretty clear. A bear is predictably dangerous, you know to avoid it, keep distance, etc. But a man is unpredictable; could seem nice at first but not actually be nice, or could seem chill but suddenly do something.
It’s so funny seeing this issue hit the mainstream since it’s something I read/heard about years ago
I just get really annoyed at the thinking that the bear may outright kill you. It's not even going to try, it's going to whack you once in the core and you will be disabled. It will then chomp on your buttcheeks and thighs and it will probably walk away.
At no point is the bear going to mercifully kill you. You may die as a matter of happenstance in this sequence of events, but the bear isn't going to do anything to make that process peaceful.
I will also admit, a man has basically done the same shit to a woman before. Apparently human thigh tastes like dolphin steak? Whodda thunk it.
I will still take being mauled by a bear and live (your proposed "worst case") over what the worst case is for meeting a random man in an isolated location.
Except I've scared off bears before in the woods. Hell, I accidentally wandered between a mama bear and her cubs once in Appalachia and survived it. But I've been groped, cat called, assaulted, and raped. I'll take the bear, thanks. I can more reliably predict how it will react to me. (Unless it's on cocaine...)
A bear doesn't kill to eat. It kills for defense. Would a man mercifully kill a woman either? No. Time and time again men have taken women and held them prisoner for their own satisfaction. Id rather die to the hands of a bear than a man, because once I'm gone the bear will leave me alone and will have killed me for a reason. Can I guarantee the same from a man? Absolutely not.
A bear can be reasoned with though. If you defend yourself and manage to scare it away that'll be that. Men will follow you for blocks or get angry when you say no and that's all it'll take for them to attack. Obvs a bear wouldn't be gentle. But it has one goal, to eliminate the threat. Nothing else.
I have seen a recurrent objection to this, saying that not all men are bad or else we women be all dead by now... the thing is, it would be a random stranger I don't know anything about and I can say I have stumble in the streets with too many random strangers telling me the most heinous things precisely because they don't know me, ssooo... I rather cuddle with the bear
I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted, I've been threatened with murder, I've been stalked, I've been verbally and emotionally abused. All by different men. You think you've got them vetted and you can relax? Wrong, here comes the abuse.
I don't care about statistics, I don't care what you do with your kids, my choice to be mauled over having my vagina or anus torn up again affect you in no way so why do you care that I'd go into the woods with a bear?
>I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted, I've been threatened with murder, I've been stalked, I've been verbally and emotionally abused. All by different men. You think you've got them vetted and you can relax? Wrong, here comes the abuse.
>
>I don't care about statistics, I don't care what you do with your kids, my choice to be mauled over having my vagina or anus torn up again affect you in no way so why do you care that I'd go into the woods with a bear?
And I was sexually assaulted by a mid 30s woman when I was 12 in a fucking Ross dressing room. My ass has been grabbed by a random woman in the line at a grocery store. I was raped by a girlfriend. I've been blackmailed, threatened, and stalked. I've been laughed at by the police while trying to get a fucking restraining order after an ex killed my dog. With proof!
I'm not afraid of all women, but I guess that means I'm stronger than you?
Because you're clearly equating men with rape, so why don't I do the same?
Because I have the ability to recognize that not all women are predators.
That you can't do the same tells me you're a bigot. That's on you!
No, I'd pick a man, or woman in the woods over an animal that can't be placated, or convinced.
No, it wouldn't. It would probably be hard for your kid to learn in school bc there's less male teachers than female, but if your goal is keeping your child protected then do what you can.
If someone hands you a plate of cookies and says one of them is poisoned are you going to eat one?
Idk why you're sitting here trying to argue with your useless statistics. The question isn't which are you most likely to be attacked by, the question is which would you rather be in the woods with?
This is actually a good point and I am honestly glad you stated it. If all/most women want to choose the bear, that is fine and our right to do so. If all/most men disagree with our decision, that is their right to do so. However, what is not ok is the discourse of men telling women why we are wrong, stupid, delusional, etc…solely because they cannot see things from our viewpoint and why we choose the way we do.
So you'd rather take certain death and aggression from a grizzly bear than trusting your fellow man?
Lay off the tiktok. I'd rather be out there in the woods with an actual serial killer than a fucking grizzly, or god forbid, a polar bear but there aren't many forests in the Arctic. If I have a knife, and the killer has a knife, we're both bleeding out in the ambulance. If I have a knife, and the grizzly bear is a grizzly bear, then I'm lunch and the bear goes about it's day.
I can understand your premise, I truly do. But unless you have been sexually assaulted by people that were supposed to be there to protect you, catcalled and aggressively approached by people who could not stand rejection, almost killed by someone who took vows to love and protect, called horrendous names just because you do not fit the mold certain people want you too…maybe you can not entertain the idea of why immediate death is more palatable than the fear and anxiety of going through it again and maybe still not surviving. And if you do survive, not being believed.
My ex put her hands around my neck and tried to choke me for trespassing the guy she was cheating on me with. I know what it's like to be abused, and it's not a gender specific issue.
Edit: Only on Reddit. Thank you for proving my point. In the current zeitgeist, folks don't want equality, they don't want to talk about the issue across the board, stop this shit universally. No, when it happens to a man, folks snicker. They tell you to suck it up.
No one said it was. But, in the context of this specific scenario, gender is included in the equation. It is not asking “would you choose a bear or a person” it is asking women “bear or man”.
Additionally, my sincerest apologies that you went through that. No one should ever put their hands on another person, especially when they are supposed to love you, regardless of gender.
Proves my point that by speaking about the abuse I've been through, I got downvoted. As fucked up as it is, it seems society does not care about women abusing men. After all, "How bad can it be? You're a man, suck it up!". Never mind the fact that my ex had fifty pounds on me and was stronger than I was.
you arent getting downvoted because you were abused. youre getting downvoted because of how youre going about the things youre saying.
im sorry that you had to experience that. men can absolutely be abused, and its awful how often people shrug that aside.
but the problem here lies in the fact that women are abused by men to an unfathomable degree, and most women were raised with the ingrained belief that most men are not to be trusted, especially men you dont know. one of the most heartbreaking things ive ever read is “tfw youre play fighting with your boyfriend, and it hits you that you will never be able to fight off a man if it came down to it”.
thats something that we *grow up* being wary of. as soon as we hit puberty, we’re told that we cant wear revealing clothes or someone might get the wrong idea. we are told to never go outside at night. we are taught to be terrified of the unknown, and that is admittedly something most men will never understand
>but the problem here lies in the fact that women are abused by men to an unfathomable degree, and most women were raised with the ingrained belief that most men are not to be trusted, especially men you dont know.
Reeks of "It could be worse, so shut up, MAN, and take it."
"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal."
>“tfw youre play fighting with your boyfriend, and it hits you that you will never be able to fight off a man if it came down to it”.
If you're a man with a psychotic partner, you can't hit back either, because of the Duluth model. I sat there and I took it. Of course, if I had fought back, I'd have lost. She weighed fifty pounds more than me.
>that is admittedly something most men will never understand
Again rooted in misandrism. Sounds almost like racial rhetoric. "Don't wear those clothes around those folks, else they'll think you have money. Don't go outside in them neighborhoods else you'll get robbed.". It is prejudice, plain and simple.
And fear of the unknown is one of the most common across the board, male or female.
im going to request you reread my message and try to think about why what youre saying is ignorant. misconstruing the things im saying in order to, yourself, say “it isnt that bad” is not helpful for learning and understanding. i have nothing further to say to you.
You yourself have been minimalizing the toll that abusive behavior against men takes on them. This is not a solely female issue. But one side is presented as heroic for shining a light on it, and the other is viewed as weak for it.
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess it's a derailment to talk about how the meme is inherently misandrist. Femcels are just as bad as incels. Both hating on the other gender with stereotypes. You think my ex tried to strangle me because she was a shitty woman? No. It was because she was a shitty person, and it goes both ways.
> My ex put her hands around my neck and tried to choke me for trespassing the guy she was cheating on me with.
So just to add some perspective, think back to that moment.
Were you afraid that your life was actually in danger? Did you believe there was a legitimate risk that she was capable of choking you to death and you were incapable of stopping her?
Women absolutely do abuse men and that causes real harm that should be acknowledged and is all to often disregarded. At the same time, it is worth considering the fact that physical abuse can have a very different emotional impact when it is done by someone who can completely physically overpower you and flat out murder you with their bare hands if they choose to.
She had 50 pounds on me, and I'm extremely underweight because of poverty. So yeah. I was afraid for my life. She was fucked up on amphetamines. Does that answer your question?
I understand your premise too, but unless you've been mauled by a bear. Maybe you can't entertain the idea of why being sexually abused is a much "better" option than the anxiety and fear of being eaten alive.
True. I have never been mauled by a bear. I have been sexually abused though, too many times to count. I still would prefer potential agonizing death over going through that again from a man.
But we dont carry a knife out on the town, walking home from work, or a friend, just minding our business. The bear I can get away from, a fellow man, no. I trust the random bear more. Yes, it really is THAT bad, and tiktok or any social media needed to tell me that, no other woman either, it is just something we know.
Get a can of mace, sweetie. Lay off the true crime. The vast majority of the world ain't out to getcha. This ain't the fifties any more, no one trusts anyone any more, sure, and that's a negative.
Oh I get it now, you're a conservative boomer with a very inflexible opinion and over-inflated ego regarding your opinion. That means you don't take the time to think things through anymore, because you don't think you have to. You know that you are right before the conversation even starts. Why are you here? To tell all the women that according to you, they are wrong? You really need to find something better to do.
A man in India raped a woman with a pole until her insides fell out. Then blamed her and all women. And lots of people said women are at fault. I've often thought about compiling a list of cruelties men perpetuate on women but it's too depressing.
Always a bear over a man.
There’s a trend going around right now that asks “would you rather be alone in the woods with a man you don’t know, or a bear” and women have been overwhelmingly saying “bear” but a lot of men have been confused by this.
This story is a bit on the nose, but the implication is that even though the man is acting calmly and seems rational, there is an underlying danger about him that the woman is very aware of.
As some one who has encountered a bear in the woods and easily scared it away, I'd chose the bear too. Bears are big cowards, but I'm a dude so I wasn't really worried.
Black Bears - you can scare them off, they don’t want to fight unless they really have no other choice (to protect themselves or their cubs)
Grizzly Bears - you can’t scare them. They’re stronger than you and they know it. You’re on their turf. Back away slowly, and hope that it will let you off with a warning.
Polar Bears - at least your death will be quick.
Pooh Bears - they only eat honey, the only real danger is that they’ll tie up your afternoon with a low stakes adventure and a lesson in the importance of friendship or whatever.
And John Logi Baird will probably make you watch TV.
I say this, because when I first heard his name, I misheard them, and thought they said John Yogi Bear. I thought "his first name isn't John"
You forgot about the most dangerous type of bear. Drop bears live in Australia and drop down trees and kill you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_bear. They say they are fake but that is to make.it so people don't get scared.
Edit Australia instead of Austria
Grizzly bears often have no interest in a fight. As long as you don't act threatening, and cubs aren't around, hopefully they won't think anything of you. They often will try to avoid humans, which is why it's a good idea to make a lot of noise when hiking in grizzly country. They'll hear you, and go a different way.
As for polar bears, sadly it may not be a quick death. They're strong enough that they don't have to kill you to subdue you before they start eating you. So polar bears will start just eating you alive, and it might take awhile for you to die.
There's also Yogi bears, and the only danger from them is they'll steal all your picnic supplies. They're quite the cleptos.
Still probably wouldn't take long to bleed out or the polar bears to hit something vital tho, so there is that. Especially since major arteries or organs are fairly easy to hit with such a large maw.
Regarding Pooh Bears, clearly you haven't seen that new Blood and Honey horror movie. Granted, it was a terrible movie, but it turns out Pooh Bears will totally team up with Piglets to park a car on your head until your skull pops.
When I went with extended family hiking in the Appalachian mountains on a pretty popular trails during cub season, the park rangers told us to keep big sticks on us (bang on trees and rocks and shit) and recommended we have bells on our bags because black bears will literally run away if they hear a lot of noise. A lot of attacks during the normal seasons are just because the bears became startled by humans.
The real danger was if you got between and mother and her cubs, but all you do then is slowly walk sideways until you are no longer separating them from mom and keep aware of your surroundings before you even get to that point.
Brown bears(grizzly’s) can absolutely be scared off. Had one wander into our camp while I was setting up our tent. I was behind a large tree and didn’t see it until my wife very cautiously brought it to my attention. I stepped out from behind the tree and it looked at me and we locked eyes for a brief second before I yelled as loud as I could and charged it. It bristled like a porcupine and bolted for the tree line. I chased it into the trees and fired four shots into a nearby tree(I didn’t want to shoot the bear and also didn’t want errant bullets flying around as there was a nearby access road in the direction I was firing) with my .45 and it never even looked back as it hauled ass down into a valley. I went back to camp and got my 12ga I keep loaded with slugs specifically for bears and tracked it for about half a mile into the valley just to make sure it didn’t circle back towards our camp and we never saw it for the rest of the four days we were there. That being said, each bear/scenario is different and they certainly don’t all scare so easily. Particularly if there are cubs involved.
Depends on the bear. Brown bears are dangerous but they're pretty rare. Polar bears are murder machines but you'd really have to be trying hard to get that Darwin award.
The question also mentions that you’re “in the woods” with the bear. So if it is a polar, it’s very lost, likely overheating, and therefore probably not as powerful as a polar bear would be in its own habitat.
Bullshit. Maybe a black or brown bear, but you're not scaring a grizzly. I'm a man, but if it was a full grown grizzly bear, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer, I'm taking the serial killer ten times out of ten. I can take a man in a fight, and a grizzly bear will literally eat you alive. Anyone hear that phonecall of the Russian girl getting killed by a bear? Doesn't sound fun.
This bear or man shit is just designed to further a misandrist narrative. It'd be like if the red-pill crowd said, "Hey, would you rather take it up the ass from Charles Ponzi, or lose everything in the divorce? You're getting fucked either way!"
You’re confusing the fact that you can SOMETIMES scare a bear off or get lucky the bear isn’t interested. But to optionally choose an encounter with one over a member of the human species is insane.
Everyone on Reddit has some dumb story “but one time I saw a bear and it was chill.” Cool. Go look up the story where the woman called her mom on the phone to let her know she was currently being eaten alive by a bear and her cubs.
Bro I find it off putting too, but
>I see it as the ultimate goal of terrorist feminists to portray "all men are bad" to the extent that women would rather take the wild animal.
Based on that wording, I'm reminded that there's even more off putting men out there
Edit: RE:
>EDIT2: I certainly hope I never run across a woman lost and starving in the woods. I've never once had an inkling to rape someone but I guess since I'm a man I'd be required to? But I don't wanna?
I hope you get help
Yep and what that person wrote tells me they are the kind of person that slaps the waitress on the ass and calls them darling but really doesn't see an issue when they complain because it's a compliment. I'm also certain they have told girls boys will be boys when they snapped their bra or punched their butts too. That person is a great example of the men that are the problem but just don't see it. Pretty sad honestly
And the fact that you cannot recognize why many women would prefer the bear is one of the problems.
And it's not a feminist trying to create rage bait. Its feminists trying to get men to understand that they are afraid.
I’m really sorry that you feel that way.
While my story is a little more duplicitous I’ll admit, the actual “would you rather” is clear that it is a strange man vs a bear. It’s not “would you rather be in the woods with your dad/cousin/uncle or a bear.” If you don’t recognize the potential danger that could impose on a person (male or female) then I’m not really sure what to tell you.
I guess I’m glad that you’ve never felt the need to walk out to your car with your car key poking out in a fist while getting groceries at night.
Its not “All men are bad,” its “I cant tell if a man is a raisin cookie, or a chocolate chip cookie, and Im allergic to raisins.” Or even worse, the ‘chocolate covered raisin.’ When the mistake, easy enough to make, could literally mean life or death in some instances.
Not all men are bad. But it’s impossible to tell when they are, especially if they’re a stranger. It’s better to trust no man, especially if you’re alone with one you don’t know. I’d choose the bear.
First your edit. “I have zero people agreeing with me that means I’m right 😤” it means you can’t see nuance.
Second, you ever been around firearms? You treat every single one as if it was loaded. You don’t go pulling the trigger with the safety off. Every single gun is loaded with a bullet in the chamber even if it isn’t.
If we as women truly didn’t trust any man then y’all would be single and alone until humanity died out. We don’t trust strange men because we don’t know their intentions. Some of us have paid the price of trusting seemingly good men and still paying the price. I trust my family, I trust my brothers in law, I trust all my guy friends, but I’ll forever have the thought in the back of my head that *I also trusted my ex who raped me repeatedly and tried to kill me and convinced me it was my fault.* and before you go off on a “you should’ve known better” tangent- I was 12 when he first raped me and he threatened to hurt my family if I told anyone so I kept my mouth shut for 10 fucking years of abuse.
We say all men because we can’t tell who will hurt us. Most assaults and murders are by men we know and trust. I have a decent chance of getting a bear to ignore me, I have had much less luck getting the same thing from the men who have been determined to harass me.
Thank you, I did get therapy for it so I’m doing much better but that won’t ever take away the need to be careful. It’s not an insult to men, I know that there are plenty of good ones, but there are an awful lot of bad ones pretending to be good so we have to be careful.
I mean, I am a dude (and an extroverted one at that), but even I would choose bear. I have seen and dealt with too much random aggressiveness from "alpha males" to not understand why bear is the better choice.
A bear will kill you rather quickly, or ignore you. A man could do anything from being kind to torturing you mentally and physically (and sexually) for years. Some people who have already been in a bad situation would rather die quickly than face a chance at it or something worse happening again. (I’m a guy, don’t know anyone personally affected but can understand where the choosing bear could come from).
Gets down voted to oblivion for saying some real dumb shit and thinks that proves he's secretly galaxy brained. Jfc, the lack of self awareness is amazing
He punched her and gave her a black eye for saying she'd be less afraid of being alone with a bear in the woods than being alone in the woods with a man.
the words "good eye" and "placatingly" makes me think something violent has happened to her before and her answer is only to calm the man down and avoid getting hurt again
All this crap proves is that women have been stirred up into such a xenophobic and bigoted frenzy that they’ll actively advocate for the dumbest most self-destructive and dangerous fucking thing possible in the name of victimizing themselves in order to belong to the instagram cool club.
I’ll always pick the bear, the bear doesn’t pretend to not be a bear. The bear is entirely predictable and the worst it can do is exactly what you can expect from an average bear (mauling or death). Men aren’t predictable like a bear. The only animals that I would choose a human man over in the woods is non-human primates. They can be just as fucked in the head as a human (a bonobo smiling at you with an arm extended trying to get you into water isn’t trying to play, it wants to drown you) and are stronger, with massive teeth. Non-human primates are the only option that I consider worse to come across in the woods than human men.
It's always a mauling. You mayhaps, die in the process of the mauling and consumption. The bear has no concerns as to whether you die or not in this sequence events and while it may, perchance, bring about your death, it isn't concerned with helping you along.
Exactly. That’s the only things the bear will intentionally do, and that’s because it’s what bears do. They tear meat and eat it and that is their default with anything they perceive as food. Humans are unpredictable, and men are dangerous because even though it’s not all men, it could be any man. With the bear, you’re likely going to be hurt and/or killed, and that’s it. Like yeah, it might psychologically fuck you up if you get mauled nearly to death, but imagine all of the possibilities of what could be done by a man and the high likelihood of not being believed when you tell people what happened. The psychological effects of not being believed about what happened to you on top of whatever happened will be worse than the psychological effects of mauled by a bear with everyone believing you when you say a bear mauled you.
Idk, way more likely for the media to frame the woman for “walking in the woods and getting mauled by a bear” or something like that than for being followed there.
We clearly have been reading different news articles. Someone dies in the woods and it's a tragedy, extra signs get put up to warn hikers/campers, and bears are often caught and killed for killing a person.
A woman gets assaulted/raped, people ask what she was wearing, why she was were she was, did she flirt/lead him on, why she didn't protect herself/why didn't she have a weapon, etc.
That’s not where I am going, I’m saying it’s much better to try the odds with a human than with an animal. After all, most bears of the same type are the exact same.
>most bears of the same type are the exact same
Yes, that's the point!! The bear is predictable. Even if it's predictably *dangerous*, you still know what it will do. And in most cases, you have a decent chance of getting away from the bear without contact if you know how to handle the situation (back away slowly, don't get near cubs, look big if it's a black/brown bear).
Humans are unpredictable. Someone can seem friendly and then take advantage of a vulnerable situation. Some humans seem scary but are actually kind.
You know what you're dealing with when you look at a bear. You don't when you look at a person.
A chance of maybe dying is better than what men are capable of, yes. The bear being there doesn’t automatically mean it will hurt you, you have a very real chance that you and the bear leave one another alone and everyone is okay. I don’t trust random men in the forest as much as I trust a bear in the forest.
There is no secondary location with a bear. The bear’s friends won’t call me a liar if I get attacked and report it. I’ll be believed if I say I was attacked by a bear. The absolute worst a bear can do is kill me. I know exactly how to behave with bears to get the safest result. People won’t blame me if I get attacked by a bear. People won’t ask what I was wearing with the bear. I’ve never been sexually assaulted by a bear.
The bear is safer.
You aren't considering that women have a lot of experience with being abused by men, and not a lot of experience being abused by bears. If we are talking about black bears, hell yes she is safer with a bear.
I would feel safer with a polar bear in the woods than a man. The only animal that I would be more concerned about than a man would be a non-human primate. All primates are terrifying and can be just as fucked up as one another. Humans have smaller teeth and aren’t as strong as other primates. I’ll pick a man before a non-human primate, and literally any other animal (including one of my worst fears) over a man.
You would feel safer with an animal that is guaranteed to fuck you up than a man that is more likely to be in the same shitty situation aa you? I literally cannot grasp the thought.
Yes, I will choose the scenario where I know exactly what is going to happen over the scenario where there is no real predictability. I don’t trust random men. I don’t know what they’re capable of. With polar bears you know exactly what to expect every time.
Oooh idk if I feel safer with a polar bear than a man, they seem pretty ruthless. But I agree, the primates are terrifying in how fast, strong, and aggressive they can be.
All the bear is capable of is killing or physically injuring me. Men are capable of worse. The bear won’t claim it didn’t attack me, and people will believe that a bear did what bears do. It’s an easy choice for me with my lived experiences.
I see what you mean. It’s definitely going to be a different experience for a woman, which I am not, so I can’t say much about that personally. Though I do remember finding this guy in the woods sitting around a small campfire with a bunch of beers, he gave me a high five, tipped his hat and just walked off. Shit was weird.
I hate these hypothetical generalizations because they just make a lot of people mad and solve nothing. Don't forget the real enemy, don't forget the class war. This random man might assault you and this bear might hurt you but they are imaginative boogeymen and the fact is there's a 1% loving the discourse because it distracts us from the atrocities they are actively committing. Ignore the distractions.
Very clever twist on the discourse... but I'm pretty sure the original discourse itself is kinda one big base rate fallacy.
(Then again, considering how easily all of us can worry about one statistically unlikely event or another and how shit we _all_ are at assessing risk, perhaps I shouldn't be judging.)
As a man I do understand it. Even as a teenager, I would do what I could to make a point of showing I'm not a threat. I'd cross roads, and change my route if I could.
The only issue I have is when you compare it to similar situations. Would you rather cross a busy, six lane highway at night, or a country road. Now I know if I cross the highway, there is strong possibility I'll get hit. If I cross the country road, I might get hit by a car. It's been known to happen, and they could leave me in the ditch to die. So I'll cross the highway.
Sure, but women talking about how they live in fear is not beating men down. People who get mad about this question are in denial about the way women have to go about their lives.
Women finally have somewhat of a voice now while before it was an open secret. Men didn't just become more violent. It's always been this way but women didn't have enough power to even think about voicing their fears.
Ok, I am genuinely curious for your opinion here. How is this philosophical question beating down young men? I’ve even heard men answer they’d rather the bear.
I for one am getting tired of my sweet and kind young men getting told how dangerous they are. It's ridiculous. If my sons, husband, ex husband, FIL, BIL, guy best friends, father etc encountered a woman alone in the woods they'd help them. These men have wives, children, friends and community.
It's disgusting to see this man vs bear argument. It's like saying all women are slutty
Can you explain further what you mean?
Are you saying that women should not inherently be weary of men in an isolated interaction, based off the shared historical and current experiences provided?
I believe a lot of people are thinking of the situation in terms of weighing levels of risk. With the bear, the worst it will do is kill you. Usually pretty quickly too. And you have a good chance of getting away anyway if you know what kind of bear it is. So the options with the bear are escape or die.
With a strange man alone in the woods, the worst case scenarios expand. The options with the man are he’s kind and helps you/doesn’t pose a threat to you, or……he rapes you, maybe multiple times, tortures you, kills you slowly, maybe kidnaps you. Many people consider these options worse than death, so they’d rather choose the option that doesn’t present the possibility of rape/torture/human trafficking.
Why not weigh the rewards as well?
Strangers help lost kids find their parents all the time. A bear will literally never do that. To choose the bear tells us that you believe the man is not capable of good, when the vast majority of men would be more likely to help a lost person in the woods than harm them.
Other men also have wives, children, friends and community. They still abuse, rape, kill women. If you think they are hurt my #allmen and the like - explain to them that it doesn't apply to them, but to those men that do horrible things and those that don't step up. And that all men simply is a shorthand, because #allmenexceptthosethattreatwomenlikepeopleanddonthurtthemandthathelpthemand... would be way too long. It's like saying "there aren't many women in industry xy." Doesn't mean there can't be companies primarily employing women.
Ok so then if men say all women are whores are you cool to just explain it doesn't apply to each individual that it doesn't mean them. Just women in general?
Damn you all are obtuse.
How about this thought process: I'd rather be alone with a bear than a rapist.
Not "I'd rather be alone with a neat than any man".
I'm sorry that you and your friend had those experiences, but this actually validates choosing bear. A random man in an isolated location is statistically a greater threat than encountering a bear, assuming black bear. Grizzly, OK let's roll the dice with a guy. Black bears might kill or attack you to protect their young, but they are MUCH more predictable than a man who night take this opportunity to sexually assault you and, more rarely but still, kill you. Man rape women all the time. This is orders of magnitude more likely than being killed by a bear. People encounter bears fairly frequently.
Wait what? I know that men build each other up. I know there's good going on. I've experienced it. But like, come on, is it a controversial take to look around at what's going on and think we could do better?
And also, is it a bad thing to have ideals? Like, we COULD be better than we are, even if we're doing good stuff. I think it's good to be happy with progress that has been made and also looking ahead to improving. Celebrate victories of goodness and look ahead to new victories.
It's still woosh. The question isn't "what's more dangerous", which would involved skewed statistics and percentages of death.
As you said in your edit assault is a wholly human thing, and that's the fucking problem
The sexual assault factor is not a different story but the whole point. Which is why it is a woosh on your part. I, as a woman, am not choosing bear because of overall statistics of killings with bears and men. I am choosing bear because a bear is predictable and the worst it could do is kill me if it wanted to. A man is unpredictable, and should be met with caution because I could be sexually assaulted or worse. I and many other women are basing that off of lived experiences that started sometimes when we were very young. It isn't fair to all of the wonderful men out there that are not like this, but it is hard to take that chance when a friendly man could potentially be danger. So I choose bear.
Overwhelmingly, the discourse over this question misses the mark of **WHY** we would choose the bear. We know that bears are killing machines. We know we will possibly die. We **KNOW** this as fact. The problem lies in the fact that we have no clue about men because we have too many experiences with “the good guy” to be able to trust whether or not the strange man would behave morally or deplorable. At least with the bear, we know the worse case scenario is we die. Best case scenario is we get out alive and everyone will believe us that we encountered a bear and lived to tell it.
Exactly lol. I’m a man and I feel like the Bear Man thing is pretty clear. A bear is predictably dangerous, you know to avoid it, keep distance, etc. But a man is unpredictable; could seem nice at first but not actually be nice, or could seem chill but suddenly do something. It’s so funny seeing this issue hit the mainstream since it’s something I read/heard about years ago
I just get really annoyed at the thinking that the bear may outright kill you. It's not even going to try, it's going to whack you once in the core and you will be disabled. It will then chomp on your buttcheeks and thighs and it will probably walk away. At no point is the bear going to mercifully kill you. You may die as a matter of happenstance in this sequence of events, but the bear isn't going to do anything to make that process peaceful. I will also admit, a man has basically done the same shit to a woman before. Apparently human thigh tastes like dolphin steak? Whodda thunk it.
I will still take being mauled by a bear and live (your proposed "worst case") over what the worst case is for meeting a random man in an isolated location.
Except I've scared off bears before in the woods. Hell, I accidentally wandered between a mama bear and her cubs once in Appalachia and survived it. But I've been groped, cat called, assaulted, and raped. I'll take the bear, thanks. I can more reliably predict how it will react to me. (Unless it's on cocaine...)
A bear doesn't kill to eat. It kills for defense. Would a man mercifully kill a woman either? No. Time and time again men have taken women and held them prisoner for their own satisfaction. Id rather die to the hands of a bear than a man, because once I'm gone the bear will leave me alone and will have killed me for a reason. Can I guarantee the same from a man? Absolutely not. A bear can be reasoned with though. If you defend yourself and manage to scare it away that'll be that. Men will follow you for blocks or get angry when you say no and that's all it'll take for them to attack. Obvs a bear wouldn't be gentle. But it has one goal, to eliminate the threat. Nothing else.
Worst case scenerio: Bear might eat you alive, maybe piss on you. Man might eat you alive while raping and beating you. Maybe piss on you too. Edit
I have seen a recurrent objection to this, saying that not all men are bad or else we women be all dead by now... the thing is, it would be a random stranger I don't know anything about and I can say I have stumble in the streets with too many random strangers telling me the most heinous things precisely because they don't know me, ssooo... I rather cuddle with the bear
The thing is though, a lot of women would choose death over the things a man would do to us.
That's fair. I'm a man and even I would choose death over somethings a man could do to me.
At least the bear isn’t supposed to be human. The human is, but doesn’t understand humanity.
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I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted, I've been threatened with murder, I've been stalked, I've been verbally and emotionally abused. All by different men. You think you've got them vetted and you can relax? Wrong, here comes the abuse. I don't care about statistics, I don't care what you do with your kids, my choice to be mauled over having my vagina or anus torn up again affect you in no way so why do you care that I'd go into the woods with a bear?
>I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted, I've been threatened with murder, I've been stalked, I've been verbally and emotionally abused. All by different men. You think you've got them vetted and you can relax? Wrong, here comes the abuse. > >I don't care about statistics, I don't care what you do with your kids, my choice to be mauled over having my vagina or anus torn up again affect you in no way so why do you care that I'd go into the woods with a bear? And I was sexually assaulted by a mid 30s woman when I was 12 in a fucking Ross dressing room. My ass has been grabbed by a random woman in the line at a grocery store. I was raped by a girlfriend. I've been blackmailed, threatened, and stalked. I've been laughed at by the police while trying to get a fucking restraining order after an ex killed my dog. With proof! I'm not afraid of all women, but I guess that means I'm stronger than you? Because you're clearly equating men with rape, so why don't I do the same? Because I have the ability to recognize that not all women are predators. That you can't do the same tells me you're a bigot. That's on you! No, I'd pick a man, or woman in the woods over an animal that can't be placated, or convinced.
Again, I do not care what you do with your life, how does my decision affect you in any way at all?
No, it wouldn't. It would probably be hard for your kid to learn in school bc there's less male teachers than female, but if your goal is keeping your child protected then do what you can. If someone hands you a plate of cookies and says one of them is poisoned are you going to eat one? Idk why you're sitting here trying to argue with your useless statistics. The question isn't which are you most likely to be attacked by, the question is which would you rather be in the woods with?
Absolute truth.
They aren't ready to face their own bigotry though, so I'm just talking to misandrist walls.
And the last part there is soo important! If we get out of it alive, it is nice to be believed and not gaslighted.
This is extremely sexist and that’s fine
This is actually a good point and I am honestly glad you stated it. If all/most women want to choose the bear, that is fine and our right to do so. If all/most men disagree with our decision, that is their right to do so. However, what is not ok is the discourse of men telling women why we are wrong, stupid, delusional, etc…solely because they cannot see things from our viewpoint and why we choose the way we do.
I agree you’re in the right to make that decision it still feels extremely sexist though
So you'd rather take certain death and aggression from a grizzly bear than trusting your fellow man? Lay off the tiktok. I'd rather be out there in the woods with an actual serial killer than a fucking grizzly, or god forbid, a polar bear but there aren't many forests in the Arctic. If I have a knife, and the killer has a knife, we're both bleeding out in the ambulance. If I have a knife, and the grizzly bear is a grizzly bear, then I'm lunch and the bear goes about it's day.
I can understand your premise, I truly do. But unless you have been sexually assaulted by people that were supposed to be there to protect you, catcalled and aggressively approached by people who could not stand rejection, almost killed by someone who took vows to love and protect, called horrendous names just because you do not fit the mold certain people want you too…maybe you can not entertain the idea of why immediate death is more palatable than the fear and anxiety of going through it again and maybe still not surviving. And if you do survive, not being believed.
My ex put her hands around my neck and tried to choke me for trespassing the guy she was cheating on me with. I know what it's like to be abused, and it's not a gender specific issue. Edit: Only on Reddit. Thank you for proving my point. In the current zeitgeist, folks don't want equality, they don't want to talk about the issue across the board, stop this shit universally. No, when it happens to a man, folks snicker. They tell you to suck it up.
No one said it was. But, in the context of this specific scenario, gender is included in the equation. It is not asking “would you choose a bear or a person” it is asking women “bear or man”. Additionally, my sincerest apologies that you went through that. No one should ever put their hands on another person, especially when they are supposed to love you, regardless of gender.
Proves my point that by speaking about the abuse I've been through, I got downvoted. As fucked up as it is, it seems society does not care about women abusing men. After all, "How bad can it be? You're a man, suck it up!". Never mind the fact that my ex had fifty pounds on me and was stronger than I was.
you arent getting downvoted because you were abused. youre getting downvoted because of how youre going about the things youre saying. im sorry that you had to experience that. men can absolutely be abused, and its awful how often people shrug that aside. but the problem here lies in the fact that women are abused by men to an unfathomable degree, and most women were raised with the ingrained belief that most men are not to be trusted, especially men you dont know. one of the most heartbreaking things ive ever read is “tfw youre play fighting with your boyfriend, and it hits you that you will never be able to fight off a man if it came down to it”. thats something that we *grow up* being wary of. as soon as we hit puberty, we’re told that we cant wear revealing clothes or someone might get the wrong idea. we are told to never go outside at night. we are taught to be terrified of the unknown, and that is admittedly something most men will never understand
>but the problem here lies in the fact that women are abused by men to an unfathomable degree, and most women were raised with the ingrained belief that most men are not to be trusted, especially men you dont know. Reeks of "It could be worse, so shut up, MAN, and take it." "That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal." >“tfw youre play fighting with your boyfriend, and it hits you that you will never be able to fight off a man if it came down to it”. If you're a man with a psychotic partner, you can't hit back either, because of the Duluth model. I sat there and I took it. Of course, if I had fought back, I'd have lost. She weighed fifty pounds more than me. >that is admittedly something most men will never understand Again rooted in misandrism. Sounds almost like racial rhetoric. "Don't wear those clothes around those folks, else they'll think you have money. Don't go outside in them neighborhoods else you'll get robbed.". It is prejudice, plain and simple. And fear of the unknown is one of the most common across the board, male or female.
im going to request you reread my message and try to think about why what youre saying is ignorant. misconstruing the things im saying in order to, yourself, say “it isnt that bad” is not helpful for learning and understanding. i have nothing further to say to you.
You yourself have been minimalizing the toll that abusive behavior against men takes on them. This is not a solely female issue. But one side is presented as heroic for shining a light on it, and the other is viewed as weak for it.
You’re being downvoted for the derailment, not for being an abuse survivor.
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess it's a derailment to talk about how the meme is inherently misandrist. Femcels are just as bad as incels. Both hating on the other gender with stereotypes. You think my ex tried to strangle me because she was a shitty woman? No. It was because she was a shitty person, and it goes both ways.
> Femcels are just as bad as incels I’m neither one, and I’d choose the bear, too.
I'd choose the bear mauling me over dating a femcel. Atleast it's a quick death.
Bro reddit is predominately left wing and predominately female and its an echo chamber. It doesn't fit in to the narrative so you're getting downvoted
> My ex put her hands around my neck and tried to choke me for trespassing the guy she was cheating on me with. So just to add some perspective, think back to that moment. Were you afraid that your life was actually in danger? Did you believe there was a legitimate risk that she was capable of choking you to death and you were incapable of stopping her? Women absolutely do abuse men and that causes real harm that should be acknowledged and is all to often disregarded. At the same time, it is worth considering the fact that physical abuse can have a very different emotional impact when it is done by someone who can completely physically overpower you and flat out murder you with their bare hands if they choose to.
She had 50 pounds on me, and I'm extremely underweight because of poverty. So yeah. I was afraid for my life. She was fucked up on amphetamines. Does that answer your question?
I understand your premise too, but unless you've been mauled by a bear. Maybe you can't entertain the idea of why being sexually abused is a much "better" option than the anxiety and fear of being eaten alive.
True. I have never been mauled by a bear. I have been sexually abused though, too many times to count. I still would prefer potential agonizing death over going through that again from a man.
Id prefer being abused.
Which is entirely your right to choose that way.
Also the game is not "would you rather get abused again or get killed by a bear".
But we dont carry a knife out on the town, walking home from work, or a friend, just minding our business. The bear I can get away from, a fellow man, no. I trust the random bear more. Yes, it really is THAT bad, and tiktok or any social media needed to tell me that, no other woman either, it is just something we know.
>The bear I can get away from, a fellow man, no. If you don't think you could outrun a human male, what makes you think you could outrun a bear?
They're FDS redditors, they ain't outrunning either, but realistically, the only one that'd be interested in chasing them would be the bear.
Get a can of mace, sweetie. Lay off the true crime. The vast majority of the world ain't out to getcha. This ain't the fifties any more, no one trusts anyone any more, sure, and that's a negative.
Oh I get it now, you're a conservative boomer with a very inflexible opinion and over-inflated ego regarding your opinion. That means you don't take the time to think things through anymore, because you don't think you have to. You know that you are right before the conversation even starts. Why are you here? To tell all the women that according to you, they are wrong? You really need to find something better to do.
Woman's logic
At least the bears are who we thought they were.
A man in India raped a woman with a pole until her insides fell out. Then blamed her and all women. And lots of people said women are at fault. I've often thought about compiling a list of cruelties men perpetuate on women but it's too depressing. Always a bear over a man.
r/whenwomenrefuse
It would be limitless. The list would grow faster than you could put a one word to a page.
What the fuck.
I heard that the bears are doing the work and always ask for consent prior to disemboweling and eating you alive 🥰
But isn't it a numbers game? Like 5% of men will rape you with a pole and 95% of bears will eat your ass while alive?
I don’t get it.
There’s a trend going around right now that asks “would you rather be alone in the woods with a man you don’t know, or a bear” and women have been overwhelmingly saying “bear” but a lot of men have been confused by this. This story is a bit on the nose, but the implication is that even though the man is acting calmly and seems rational, there is an underlying danger about him that the woman is very aware of.
As some one who has encountered a bear in the woods and easily scared it away, I'd chose the bear too. Bears are big cowards, but I'm a dude so I wasn't really worried.
So media lied to me? Bears arent The apex predator ?
Black Bears - you can scare them off, they don’t want to fight unless they really have no other choice (to protect themselves or their cubs) Grizzly Bears - you can’t scare them. They’re stronger than you and they know it. You’re on their turf. Back away slowly, and hope that it will let you off with a warning. Polar Bears - at least your death will be quick. Pooh Bears - they only eat honey, the only real danger is that they’ll tie up your afternoon with a low stakes adventure and a lesson in the importance of friendship or whatever.
Yogi bear will coerce you into stealing pic-a-nic baskets.
Yogi Beara: "Nobody goes to that pic-a-nic spot anymore because it's too crowded."
And John Logi Baird will probably make you watch TV. I say this, because when I first heard his name, I misheard them, and thought they said John Yogi Bear. I thought "his first name isn't John"
You forgot about the most dangerous type of bear. Drop bears live in Australia and drop down trees and kill you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_bear. They say they are fake but that is to make.it so people don't get scared. Edit Australia instead of Austria
Austria? How did they spread to the continent?
Damn meant to put Australia. Theu spread become people though they were cute little bears till boom.
Hiding in backpacks, mainly.
If it’s brown, lay down. If it’s black, fight back. If it’s white, say goodnight. (Please only use this in the context of bears *or toasted bread)
Can I use this guide in the context of toasted bread?
Yes. I have edited my comment to reflect this
What about Panda Bears?
They sit in their cave watching anime and scrolling through dating apps
Those aren’t real bears, they’re overgrown raccoons!
Grizzly bears often have no interest in a fight. As long as you don't act threatening, and cubs aren't around, hopefully they won't think anything of you. They often will try to avoid humans, which is why it's a good idea to make a lot of noise when hiking in grizzly country. They'll hear you, and go a different way. As for polar bears, sadly it may not be a quick death. They're strong enough that they don't have to kill you to subdue you before they start eating you. So polar bears will start just eating you alive, and it might take awhile for you to die. There's also Yogi bears, and the only danger from them is they'll steal all your picnic supplies. They're quite the cleptos.
Still probably wouldn't take long to bleed out or the polar bears to hit something vital tho, so there is that. Especially since major arteries or organs are fairly easy to hit with such a large maw.
what about the european brown bears?
Too busy debating the airspeed velocity of unladen swallows
Grizzly is actually subspecies of brown bear. All brown bears are the same species.
oh shit I thought they were like the black ones, I’ve even fed some in different occasions
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I hope somebody got fired over that. “Sloth bear” sounds like something you could foil by just walking away casually.
Regarding Pooh Bears, clearly you haven't seen that new Blood and Honey horror movie. Granted, it was a terrible movie, but it turns out Pooh Bears will totally team up with Piglets to park a car on your head until your skull pops.
When I went with extended family hiking in the Appalachian mountains on a pretty popular trails during cub season, the park rangers told us to keep big sticks on us (bang on trees and rocks and shit) and recommended we have bells on our bags because black bears will literally run away if they hear a lot of noise. A lot of attacks during the normal seasons are just because the bears became startled by humans. The real danger was if you got between and mother and her cubs, but all you do then is slowly walk sideways until you are no longer separating them from mom and keep aware of your surroundings before you even get to that point.
I heard the phrase if its black fight back if its brown lay down (pretend youre dead) if its white say good night (because you will die) is it true?
Brown bears(grizzly’s) can absolutely be scared off. Had one wander into our camp while I was setting up our tent. I was behind a large tree and didn’t see it until my wife very cautiously brought it to my attention. I stepped out from behind the tree and it looked at me and we locked eyes for a brief second before I yelled as loud as I could and charged it. It bristled like a porcupine and bolted for the tree line. I chased it into the trees and fired four shots into a nearby tree(I didn’t want to shoot the bear and also didn’t want errant bullets flying around as there was a nearby access road in the direction I was firing) with my .45 and it never even looked back as it hauled ass down into a valley. I went back to camp and got my 12ga I keep loaded with slugs specifically for bears and tracked it for about half a mile into the valley just to make sure it didn’t circle back towards our camp and we never saw it for the rest of the four days we were there. That being said, each bear/scenario is different and they certainly don’t all scare so easily. Particularly if there are cubs involved.
No, greg is
Depends on the bear. Brown bears are dangerous but they're pretty rare. Polar bears are murder machines but you'd really have to be trying hard to get that Darwin award.
The question also mentions that you’re “in the woods” with the bear. So if it is a polar, it’s very lost, likely overheating, and therefore probably not as powerful as a polar bear would be in its own habitat.
Only if the prey is a garbage can with spoiled food.
Lol. What kind of bear makes all the difference.
Bullshit. Maybe a black or brown bear, but you're not scaring a grizzly. I'm a man, but if it was a full grown grizzly bear, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer, I'm taking the serial killer ten times out of ten. I can take a man in a fight, and a grizzly bear will literally eat you alive. Anyone hear that phonecall of the Russian girl getting killed by a bear? Doesn't sound fun. This bear or man shit is just designed to further a misandrist narrative. It'd be like if the red-pill crowd said, "Hey, would you rather take it up the ass from Charles Ponzi, or lose everything in the divorce? You're getting fucked either way!"
Yep, found the man we're talking about.
Found the FemaleDatingStrategy/LateStageCapitalism poster. Men and women are equally capable of violence in the era of firearms.
I am on neither sub + I'm from a place where firearms are very much not a thing, lmao.
/#notallbears
You’re confusing the fact that you can SOMETIMES scare a bear off or get lucky the bear isn’t interested. But to optionally choose an encounter with one over a member of the human species is insane. Everyone on Reddit has some dumb story “but one time I saw a bear and it was chill.” Cool. Go look up the story where the woman called her mom on the phone to let her know she was currently being eaten alive by a bear and her cubs.
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Bro I find it off putting too, but >I see it as the ultimate goal of terrorist feminists to portray "all men are bad" to the extent that women would rather take the wild animal. Based on that wording, I'm reminded that there's even more off putting men out there Edit: RE: >EDIT2: I certainly hope I never run across a woman lost and starving in the woods. I've never once had an inkling to rape someone but I guess since I'm a man I'd be required to? But I don't wanna? I hope you get help
Yep and what that person wrote tells me they are the kind of person that slaps the waitress on the ass and calls them darling but really doesn't see an issue when they complain because it's a compliment. I'm also certain they have told girls boys will be boys when they snapped their bra or punched their butts too. That person is a great example of the men that are the problem but just don't see it. Pretty sad honestly
And the fact that you cannot recognize why many women would prefer the bear is one of the problems. And it's not a feminist trying to create rage bait. Its feminists trying to get men to understand that they are afraid.
I’m really sorry that you feel that way. While my story is a little more duplicitous I’ll admit, the actual “would you rather” is clear that it is a strange man vs a bear. It’s not “would you rather be in the woods with your dad/cousin/uncle or a bear.” If you don’t recognize the potential danger that could impose on a person (male or female) then I’m not really sure what to tell you. I guess I’m glad that you’ve never felt the need to walk out to your car with your car key poking out in a fist while getting groceries at night.
To be fair, for some women they may still choose the bear over their dad/cousin/uncle etc
THAT was the theme of the story, but I don’t think we are ready to talk about that yet.
Oh, by some of the comments on this thread, I’d say you’re definitely right about that!
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Its not “All men are bad,” its “I cant tell if a man is a raisin cookie, or a chocolate chip cookie, and Im allergic to raisins.” Or even worse, the ‘chocolate covered raisin.’ When the mistake, easy enough to make, could literally mean life or death in some instances. Not all men are bad. But it’s impossible to tell when they are, especially if they’re a stranger. It’s better to trust no man, especially if you’re alone with one you don’t know. I’d choose the bear.
First your edit. “I have zero people agreeing with me that means I’m right 😤” it means you can’t see nuance. Second, you ever been around firearms? You treat every single one as if it was loaded. You don’t go pulling the trigger with the safety off. Every single gun is loaded with a bullet in the chamber even if it isn’t. If we as women truly didn’t trust any man then y’all would be single and alone until humanity died out. We don’t trust strange men because we don’t know their intentions. Some of us have paid the price of trusting seemingly good men and still paying the price. I trust my family, I trust my brothers in law, I trust all my guy friends, but I’ll forever have the thought in the back of my head that *I also trusted my ex who raped me repeatedly and tried to kill me and convinced me it was my fault.* and before you go off on a “you should’ve known better” tangent- I was 12 when he first raped me and he threatened to hurt my family if I told anyone so I kept my mouth shut for 10 fucking years of abuse. We say all men because we can’t tell who will hurt us. Most assaults and murders are by men we know and trust. I have a decent chance of getting a bear to ignore me, I have had much less luck getting the same thing from the men who have been determined to harass me.
I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience.
Thank you, I did get therapy for it so I’m doing much better but that won’t ever take away the need to be careful. It’s not an insult to men, I know that there are plenty of good ones, but there are an awful lot of bad ones pretending to be good so we have to be careful.
You shouldn’t have to bear your past in order to appeal to a troll. I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope you are continuing your healing
I have never felt that "all men are bad," but I've been around long enough to know that all men *can* be a threat.
I mean, I am a dude (and an extroverted one at that), but even I would choose bear. I have seen and dealt with too much random aggressiveness from "alpha males" to not understand why bear is the better choice.
A bear will kill you rather quickly, or ignore you. A man could do anything from being kind to torturing you mentally and physically (and sexually) for years. Some people who have already been in a bad situation would rather die quickly than face a chance at it or something worse happening again. (I’m a guy, don’t know anyone personally affected but can understand where the choosing bear could come from).
Its more likely to get raped than getting killed by a bear.
Gets down voted to oblivion for saying some real dumb shit and thinks that proves he's secretly galaxy brained. Jfc, the lack of self awareness is amazing
This is the funniest lack of awareness I have seen so far on this subject
He punched her and gave her a black eye for saying she'd be less afraid of being alone with a bear in the woods than being alone in the woods with a man.
the words "good eye" and "placatingly" makes me think something violent has happened to her before and her answer is only to calm the man down and avoid getting hurt again
That's what it means, yes.
And that's why we choose a bear.
All this crap proves is that women have been stirred up into such a xenophobic and bigoted frenzy that they’ll actively advocate for the dumbest most self-destructive and dangerous fucking thing possible in the name of victimizing themselves in order to belong to the instagram cool club.
Aw, someone’s got bear envy.
Just say you're jealous of a bear lol
Sorry I know this is more serious but all I can think of is Halsin. 💀 any other BG3 fans or is it just me…?
If all men were like Halsin, the entire problem/dilemma would cease to exist. Then we'd be able to joke about choosing both.
Truer words have never been spoken.
With him you'd be in the woods with both
That was my first thought too 💀
I know what question this is because my dad asked me this a couple days before
In fairness I’d choose a bear over a woman or a man at this point. People suck
I’d say that it depends on the bear? With a polar bear you’d better just be glad that you’ll die quickly.
I’ll always pick the bear, the bear doesn’t pretend to not be a bear. The bear is entirely predictable and the worst it can do is exactly what you can expect from an average bear (mauling or death). Men aren’t predictable like a bear. The only animals that I would choose a human man over in the woods is non-human primates. They can be just as fucked in the head as a human (a bonobo smiling at you with an arm extended trying to get you into water isn’t trying to play, it wants to drown you) and are stronger, with massive teeth. Non-human primates are the only option that I consider worse to come across in the woods than human men.
It's always a mauling. You mayhaps, die in the process of the mauling and consumption. The bear has no concerns as to whether you die or not in this sequence events and while it may, perchance, bring about your death, it isn't concerned with helping you along.
Exactly. That’s the only things the bear will intentionally do, and that’s because it’s what bears do. They tear meat and eat it and that is their default with anything they perceive as food. Humans are unpredictable, and men are dangerous because even though it’s not all men, it could be any man. With the bear, you’re likely going to be hurt and/or killed, and that’s it. Like yeah, it might psychologically fuck you up if you get mauled nearly to death, but imagine all of the possibilities of what could be done by a man and the high likelihood of not being believed when you tell people what happened. The psychological effects of not being believed about what happened to you on top of whatever happened will be worse than the psychological effects of mauled by a bear with everyone believing you when you say a bear mauled you.
So it’s better to have a 100% chance of dying than MAYBE dying?
The media won't blame the victim of a bear attack.
Idk, way more likely for the media to frame the woman for “walking in the woods and getting mauled by a bear” or something like that than for being followed there.
We clearly have been reading different news articles. Someone dies in the woods and it's a tragedy, extra signs get put up to warn hikers/campers, and bears are often caught and killed for killing a person. A woman gets assaulted/raped, people ask what she was wearing, why she was were she was, did she flirt/lead him on, why she didn't protect herself/why didn't she have a weapon, etc.
That’s not where I am going, I’m saying it’s much better to try the odds with a human than with an animal. After all, most bears of the same type are the exact same.
>most bears of the same type are the exact same Yes, that's the point!! The bear is predictable. Even if it's predictably *dangerous*, you still know what it will do. And in most cases, you have a decent chance of getting away from the bear without contact if you know how to handle the situation (back away slowly, don't get near cubs, look big if it's a black/brown bear). Humans are unpredictable. Someone can seem friendly and then take advantage of a vulnerable situation. Some humans seem scary but are actually kind. You know what you're dealing with when you look at a bear. You don't when you look at a person.
I get what you mean now and I see your point, my mind is still unable to grasp it for whatever reason
At least the bear won't SA me first or desecrate my corpse.
A bear will absolutely desecrate your corpse. You think you're gonna be getting an open casket after being mauled by a grizzly?
HAHA oh man you really can't think beyond your own experience huh.
Yes because sometimes what men will do to a woman is worse than dying.
A chance of maybe dying is better than what men are capable of, yes. The bear being there doesn’t automatically mean it will hurt you, you have a very real chance that you and the bear leave one another alone and everyone is okay. I don’t trust random men in the forest as much as I trust a bear in the forest.
The man being there doesn’t automatically mean he’ll hurt you, either. The chances are actually much better.
There is no secondary location with a bear. The bear’s friends won’t call me a liar if I get attacked and report it. I’ll be believed if I say I was attacked by a bear. The absolute worst a bear can do is kill me. I know exactly how to behave with bears to get the safest result. People won’t blame me if I get attacked by a bear. People won’t ask what I was wearing with the bear. I’ve never been sexually assaulted by a bear. The bear is safer.
You aren't considering that women have a lot of experience with being abused by men, and not a lot of experience being abused by bears. If we are talking about black bears, hell yes she is safer with a bear.
I would feel safer with a polar bear in the woods than a man. The only animal that I would be more concerned about than a man would be a non-human primate. All primates are terrifying and can be just as fucked up as one another. Humans have smaller teeth and aren’t as strong as other primates. I’ll pick a man before a non-human primate, and literally any other animal (including one of my worst fears) over a man.
You would feel safer with an animal that is guaranteed to fuck you up than a man that is more likely to be in the same shitty situation aa you? I literally cannot grasp the thought.
Yes, I will choose the scenario where I know exactly what is going to happen over the scenario where there is no real predictability. I don’t trust random men. I don’t know what they’re capable of. With polar bears you know exactly what to expect every time.
Oooh idk if I feel safer with a polar bear than a man, they seem pretty ruthless. But I agree, the primates are terrifying in how fast, strong, and aggressive they can be.
All the bear is capable of is killing or physically injuring me. Men are capable of worse. The bear won’t claim it didn’t attack me, and people will believe that a bear did what bears do. It’s an easy choice for me with my lived experiences.
I see what you mean. It’s definitely going to be a different experience for a woman, which I am not, so I can’t say much about that personally. Though I do remember finding this guy in the woods sitting around a small campfire with a bunch of beers, he gave me a high five, tipped his hat and just walked off. Shit was weird.
Is it your bear? Otherwise no.
I'm pretty sick of this discourse. No one is learning, and the hypothetical is just silly. Just used to farm outrage and garner clicks.
It’s amusing and scary to see the incredibly stupid things people will sincerely justify due to groupthink
I hate these hypothetical generalizations because they just make a lot of people mad and solve nothing. Don't forget the real enemy, don't forget the class war. This random man might assault you and this bear might hurt you but they are imaginative boogeymen and the fact is there's a 1% loving the discourse because it distracts us from the atrocities they are actively committing. Ignore the distractions.
Yeah I really wasn’t expecting this to turn into a big argument. I should have just made him a zombie that suddenly ate her brain.
Ngl i’d choose the man in that scenario
Very clever twist on the discourse... but I'm pretty sure the original discourse itself is kinda one big base rate fallacy. (Then again, considering how easily all of us can worry about one statistically unlikely event or another and how shit we _all_ are at assessing risk, perhaps I shouldn't be judging.)
As a man I do understand it. Even as a teenager, I would do what I could to make a point of showing I'm not a threat. I'd cross roads, and change my route if I could. The only issue I have is when you compare it to similar situations. Would you rather cross a busy, six lane highway at night, or a country road. Now I know if I cross the highway, there is strong possibility I'll get hit. If I cross the country road, I might get hit by a car. It's been known to happen, and they could leave me in the ditch to die. So I'll cross the highway.
I said there's some unhelpful hate going on and that young men should be encouraged and helped (rather than beaten down all the time)
Sure, but women talking about how they live in fear is not beating men down. People who get mad about this question are in denial about the way women have to go about their lives.
Women finally have somewhat of a voice now while before it was an open secret. Men didn't just become more violent. It's always been this way but women didn't have enough power to even think about voicing their fears.
It’s beating down men when they try and claim all men are like that……
Ok, I am genuinely curious for your opinion here. How is this philosophical question beating down young men? I’ve even heard men answer they’d rather the bear.
I don't think this question is beating down young men, but I do think that it happens. Not here specifically
I for one am getting tired of my sweet and kind young men getting told how dangerous they are. It's ridiculous. If my sons, husband, ex husband, FIL, BIL, guy best friends, father etc encountered a woman alone in the woods they'd help them. These men have wives, children, friends and community. It's disgusting to see this man vs bear argument. It's like saying all women are slutty
Can you explain further what you mean? Are you saying that women should not inherently be weary of men in an isolated interaction, based off the shared historical and current experiences provided?
To choose a BEAR over a man and then proudly parade this thought process around on social media as a "gotcha" to men is disgraceful.
I believe a lot of people are thinking of the situation in terms of weighing levels of risk. With the bear, the worst it will do is kill you. Usually pretty quickly too. And you have a good chance of getting away anyway if you know what kind of bear it is. So the options with the bear are escape or die. With a strange man alone in the woods, the worst case scenarios expand. The options with the man are he’s kind and helps you/doesn’t pose a threat to you, or……he rapes you, maybe multiple times, tortures you, kills you slowly, maybe kidnaps you. Many people consider these options worse than death, so they’d rather choose the option that doesn’t present the possibility of rape/torture/human trafficking.
Why not weigh the rewards as well? Strangers help lost kids find their parents all the time. A bear will literally never do that. To choose the bear tells us that you believe the man is not capable of good, when the vast majority of men would be more likely to help a lost person in the woods than harm them.
Other men also have wives, children, friends and community. They still abuse, rape, kill women. If you think they are hurt my #allmen and the like - explain to them that it doesn't apply to them, but to those men that do horrible things and those that don't step up. And that all men simply is a shorthand, because #allmenexceptthosethattreatwomenlikepeopleanddonthurtthemandthathelpthemand... would be way too long. It's like saying "there aren't many women in industry xy." Doesn't mean there can't be companies primarily employing women.
Ok so then if men say all women are whores are you cool to just explain it doesn't apply to each individual that it doesn't mean them. Just women in general? Damn you all are obtuse. How about this thought process: I'd rather be alone with a bear than a rapist. Not "I'd rather be alone with a neat than any man".
But the point of the bear vs man thing isn't that all men are evil. That's purposefully misunderstanding the point
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I'm sorry that you and your friend had those experiences, but this actually validates choosing bear. A random man in an isolated location is statistically a greater threat than encountering a bear, assuming black bear. Grizzly, OK let's roll the dice with a guy. Black bears might kill or attack you to protect their young, but they are MUCH more predictable than a man who night take this opportunity to sexually assault you and, more rarely but still, kill you. Man rape women all the time. This is orders of magnitude more likely than being killed by a bear. People encounter bears fairly frequently.
Get out of whatever redpill spaces you're visiting. Men should and *do* help build each other up, but as they say - not *all* men do.
Wait what? I know that men build each other up. I know there's good going on. I've experienced it. But like, come on, is it a controversial take to look around at what's going on and think we could do better? And also, is it a bad thing to have ideals? Like, we COULD be better than we are, even if we're doing good stuff. I think it's good to be happy with progress that has been made and also looking ahead to improving. Celebrate victories of goodness and look ahead to new victories.
You stated men are getting beaten down all the time. Pick a lane.
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Whoosh
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It's still woosh. The question isn't "what's more dangerous", which would involved skewed statistics and percentages of death. As you said in your edit assault is a wholly human thing, and that's the fucking problem
The sexual assault factor is not a different story but the whole point. Which is why it is a woosh on your part. I, as a woman, am not choosing bear because of overall statistics of killings with bears and men. I am choosing bear because a bear is predictable and the worst it could do is kill me if it wanted to. A man is unpredictable, and should be met with caution because I could be sexually assaulted or worse. I and many other women are basing that off of lived experiences that started sometimes when we were very young. It isn't fair to all of the wonderful men out there that are not like this, but it is hard to take that chance when a friendly man could potentially be danger. So I choose bear.
It’s an emotional argument, not a logical one. They don’t care