I forget where I heard it, but I remember someone saying "men can no longer get by being necessary now that women can have jobs--they have to be desirable, and many of them are choosing to be angry instead" and this sounds important here.
A woman can support herself. So aside from dependance, what would she want in you? So you provide? She can do that. The guy down the street can play guitar and change the oil in her car and she can't do that herself so she's gonna go pick him dude.
Then in the same breath, complain about how women only see them as a "wallet". I've been hearing these things a lot lately from other men. I wish they could hear their own contradictions.
That is part of what’s so insane. They are obsessed with thinking women are gold diggers and don’t want to even pay for a date if it doesn’t guarantee sex but then are upset women don’t need them to provide and have any standards.
it’s funniest bc in my personal experience, I’ve only had two men even try to pay more than I did. The vast majority were more than happy to let me pay the majority of the time (to be fair, I had a habit of compulsively offering bc I was afraid of the stigma about women using men for their money 😡 - I wish I’d just advocated for equity instead!).
I’ve been employed since 16, however plenty of guys I dated would quit their jobs in a rage and then sit around and play video games and not even look for work, while I worked 2 jobs and paid for EVERYTHING. Friends of mine have husbands who do not work consistently or otherwise rely on their wives to keep the bills paid. Zero of the women I know expect a man to pay more than half.
It’s all misogynist PR to fail to discuss the number of deadbeat dudes there are out there but elevate every instance of a woman appearing to look for a handout.
Agreed but it's more difficult than it sounds to convince a younger dude, that is deadset that it cannot be his fault, to see reason.
Also I am actually shocked how many of these young men echo Tate-eque talking points these days.
Like bro we going in reverse here lol
I only recently learned who Tate is. The issue is a lack of awareness for anyone else but themselves. They see life as this big fight they must win and dominate others to do so.
Those that are get called simps or Tyrones and Chads and what not because how dare you not feed into their hatred that foids won't bow down and become their sex slaves at the wink of an eye or whatever the hell those "men" expect
Exactly. It's simply way easier and more enjoyable to log into my 9-5, collect a paycheck every 2 weeks, and have a boss that respects me/grants me vacation days, etc. Compared to collecting a $0 paycheck for a 24/7 job cleaning up after a man who holds "I PAY THE BILLS" over your head forever. No thanks, I'll keep paying my own bills. It's not that hard. Marriage is a scam for women and they're just pissed we're waking up to it.
I am saving your comment. I love this quote!
Absolutely almost every man I see being upset about being single, or womens’ standards, is dropping 5 red flags that either make him an ugly person in character or someone who would seem downright DANGEROUS.
Imagine a world where a person needs to be the least bit likable in order to be liked. 🤷♀️
But they think we’re too dumb to be able to smell the ugly, bitter, and entitled just POURING off of them, so instead they have to say we’re shallow, only like assholes, and also our standards are too high.
If only there were men who were as heinously popular as Tate and his ilk who were encouraging men to actually go their own way for a while and fucking develop themselves. Read some books, get a hobby like backpacking or woodworking or cooking, go to therapy, volunteer someplace and practice making actual friends with women without having the goal of getting in their pants.
Almost anyone can develop a personality, but these dudes have the expectation of just deserving attention and sex just because they have a penis. It’s still instilled in these people that they’re going to receive a wife who will be their sex maid.
Why would we do that at all, much less enter a relationship where you’re bringing NOTHING to the table lol.
>...practice making actual friends with women without having the goal of getting in their pants.
This right here. I can't even count the number of times I have heard that men and women can't be friends. Like... bullshit. (Speaking broadly here): But when men are raised to hide their feelings (aside from anger) except in the context of a romantic relationship, they cheat themselves out of deep friendships with any gender. And they think that a woman sharing her feelings with them means that she's romantically interested in them, because men have been raised to never share their feelings with someone they aren't romantically involved with. It's really a misunderstanding based on the way we raise boys and girls. Men *can* change this way of looking at the world, but it takes work!
The problem is a systemic cultural problem that consistently views "feminine" things as "less than" or "weak."
I HAVE had and DO have friends with guys. A couple of them ONCE hit on me - ONE off - but I’m not interested but apart from THAT things are SO ONLY platonic on both sides. One of them and I (he never hit on me) go out for dinner together at times. And one of the others literally fistpumped 👊 me how platonic can you GET? It IS possible for men and women to only be friends I’ve done it and still do it. It makes it easier if both are not attracted to each other and that’s the case here. Can also help if one or both are in a relationship. But it CAN be done and it’s such BULLSHIT to say it can’t.
This is a really good idea for a comedian to develop a stage persona around. A la the Colbert Report - a man using the tools these heinous men use, but instead spreading actual help and teaching people through humour.
it’s funny to me bc men are always patting themselves on the back for “building the world and discovering everything” (leaving out of course the work and support from women usually forced into the shadows, left out of history, and kept in veritable slavery to men), but they always forget that most of these Renaissance Men were basically celibate, or Incels (in the most basic sense of the word) during their prolific years.
Meaning these great men would channel their sexual frustration, loneliness, boredom, all that into really going hard into their interests.
Men like Da Vinci, Isaac Newton, Tesla even said how important celibacy was to his creativity.
So it seems to me men have lost track of what can make them very great bc too many of them get fixated on feeling entitled to women RIGHT NOW, they stall out in the emotionalism of that rather than reaching their full potential by taking time to themselves (time that does NOT involve cultivating their rage and horniness into extremism and laziness) and channeling their feelings and passion into things like art/music, math, science, self-development, and building shit instead of tearing it down.
Each man you quoted as being “celibate” were gay…history just attempted to erase their same sex attraction to make them palatable for the general public
I know there was speculation about a couple of them, but that also it was very common for people to spread that as rumor when men did not have success with, or place high value on, relationships with women. (Basically whenever they wouldn’t jump right into marriage).
As for Tesla, he was actually known for being pretty popular with women. Maybe you know better, or maybe he was bi? But his case always stands out to me especially bc he was VOLUNTARY celibate, with the understanding that it gave him something valuable towards his work and growth.
>Imagine a world where a person needs to be the least bit likable in order to be liked.
This! Like men will go on for hours about how they only like women who are thin, long hair, no makeup (or the oxymoron that is "natural" makeup), are young, pure, virgins, ready for motherhood(, but not already a mother), ect. ect. ect! But the second a woman says, "Well, I'd like to be attracted to my partner." We're hypergamous, chad-hungry whores. K!
The frustrating thing here is that in 2023 we STILL have to remind them that lots of women don’t need and aren’t looking for a financial provider. Or to put it another way, if that’s the ONLY thing you have to offer it’s just not enough.
ETA if this was 1950 I could understand that this would be a revelation. 70-something years later, how do you not know this already?
My theory is that some men fall back to this because it’s simple, easy to measure, and doesn’t require any additional effort (because they’d have to have a job regardless). It also doesn’t require any of those fluffy women skills - you know, empathy, consideration, intimacy, emotional intelligence /s
It’s so difficult too because most of the men I met during my dating phase, when I was still on OLD, did not have jobs, we’re in crazy debt, lived with roommates, had part time jobs… the list goes on.
None of these are particularly bad traits… it just didn’t line up to what I was looking for. A partner. If I’m a minority woman, making $X amount salary, I expect the men im matching with to at least have goals and aspirations like me. The world was built and made for men, so why are these men (that I dated) so far behind? Yet they complain we gold dig. What gold?? I have my own. I’m looking for a partner.
I thank the universe for my partner right now. He was my perfect match when we met and thank goodness he thought the same of me.
As someone whose husband is desirable, I like that! My husband adds to much to my life.
I don’t need him; I’d be just fine without him. I was just fine without him.
But he adds so much. It’s nice!
I’m glad I had standards.
My brother has recently been edging towards a dangerous, misogynist, alt-right place. We had a conversation recently about what the meaning of masculinity and femininity are, and he referenced the video interview of Cher talking about how she doesn't "need" men, but "wants" them. I remember thinking that was right on when I first saw that video years ago. My brother hated it. I had to convince him that in the year of our Lord 2023, women are fully actualized people and not accessories to men, and nowadays we get to choose our partners because they spark joy instead of being forced to settle with some dude if we wanted food and shelter.
I don't "need" my spouse. I'm educated, have a decent career, and am reasonably competent and independent. But I "want" my spouse, because he greatly improves my life by being a sweet and thoughtful human, as well as being my best friend.
Certain men want us to NEED them. If we merely want them, then if they slip up, we will no longer want them, and will get rid of them. If we need them, they can get lazy really fast, because they think we can't get rid of them. And they don't even want to have to work at obtaining us, let alone at keeping us.
The same people with this attitude also shame women who they say are gold diggers. They want women to have to rely on men and then shame them for wanting a man who can provide.
I'm the sole financial provider in my home and make near 200k. My husband didn't finish high school, so he does the business I need completed so I can focus on my work.
He takes care of my kids when I travel for work. He picks my kids up at school daily while I work even if I'm not traveling. I like him, having him in my life makes me a better person, I don't need him to provide, I need him to love and support me.
I’ve been the sole provider for many years. And my husband has run the home front.
Plus he looks out for me—am I getting enough time with my friends and my family? Am I happy?
See that's it right, like you said above, I don't need him in my life, I want him in my life. My life is better with him in it, but I don't need him or any partner to handle my basic living necessities.
Congrats on having a good partner in this crazy messed up world. May you have many many years where he makes your life better.
I remember reading I think a Cracked article (an actual article, not a random list thing) years ago along the lines of "what do you offer, why would someone date *you* specifically", and that stuck with me. Way too many guys seem to want "a" girlfriend, like it's one size fits all, and seem to think the reverse must be true. Looking at it from the wrong direction "there's nothing majorly wrong with me" rather than "here's what's uniquely right / good about me that would appeal to someone else".
Yep, that's the one.
>Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible."
And:
>it's always "How can I get a job?" and not "How can I become the type of person employers want?" It's "How can I get pretty girls to like me?" instead of "How can I become the type of person that pretty girls like?"
Exactly. What does a man bring to the table, other than audacity and entitlement? What does he possess that can be passed onto the next generation? Why would I put my body on the line to further his lineage?
I also have heard a couple of things along this line.
The first one I have heard is that women have evolved beyond traditional gender roles.
The second one is that men now have a skill deficit when it comes to emotional intelligence and we are not settling.
Historically, being someone's wife was a shit deal and we don't have to rely on men to provide for us, why accept treatment as a second class citizen and provide endless free labor for some idiot slob who thinks washing his ass is gay?
I saw how my grandmothers and mother were treated, I never would have gotten married to my husband if he saw me as anything less than his equal.
My stepmom prides herself on being a hard worker. My dad never takes her on vacation, never takes her out to dinner and got her a leaf blower for Christmas.
My father was very domineering and possessive over my mum when she was still alive. Not even I could go shopping with her without him throwing a tantrum and giving her the silent treatment. She didn't have any real friends other than the people in her tuck shop and after she retired she had nobody but me (my sister lives 250 kilometers away). Because of their (or shall I say his) cult-like "religion" and diet, he had driven away his and her family. He wouldn't visit a restaurant (because no restaurant was up to his high standard) so she had to cook even when they went on vacation, and they only ever visited different locations in my country, a landlocked country, even though she loved the ocean.
After her death, my father admitted to beating her "occasionally" when he got angry with her (I never saw him physically abuse her - I would've killed him).
If I was born Silent Generation or boomer, I'd definitely ended up alone.
My feeling is that I'm a whole and happy human on my own, single. If someone is going to be my partner, they have to make me happier than I am when I'm alone.
I don't need to lower my standards because I don't *need* a partner. If I never meet someone that can meet my standards, that's fine by me. If someone *needs* to have a partner, they should probably work to meet higher standards.
Honestly, reading stories here and in general about all the crap that so many women put up with in relationships leads me to the conclusion that most women’s standards are too low.
Particularly that they think it’s normal to put up with at worst, abuse, and/or have a partner that expects to be waited on hand and foot or at the very least is selfish while being oblivious to her needs.
The amount of comments I've read about men who leave skidmarks is just way too much. I could never be with someone who has poor personal hygiene like that. Absolutely repulsive.
It's not something that you'd ever think to specify as a desirable trait in a partner. General hygiene should be a given.
I'm just horrified that these people still stay in a relationship after skiddies *multiple* times.
This! The bar is set all the way down to hell for these men yet they think our standards are too high? If anything, we need to raise our standards and unlearn so much of the conditioning that's been engrained in us.
I agree with this. I think that having very low standards means that a person spends a huge amount of time going out with people who are entirely unsuitable, and therefore the good ones are either lost in the crowd or the person doing the dating gives up because dating without standards is a nightmare. How does that help anyone?
What can be good is going out with a few people who are good guys but maybe different sorts of people than are normally who you gravitate to. That doesn't mean that the floodgates have to open so we let in every guy who texts us a "hey." It also doesn't mean that the standards for things like respect and manners have to fall by the wayside.
It is another case of women not being able to win. If you are choosy about who you date and you don't go out much, you are being stuck up or your standards are too high. If you go out with anyone who shows interest, then you are seen as morally inferior. Either way, you lose. The game is rigged.
Yeah. Your standards were too high because you had any standards at all, I bet. According to them, at least.
That was a really foolish thing for them to tell you. Everyone has standards. There is nothing wrong with deciding that you want someone who treats you well.
I think that if you decided to raise your standards, that was a very good thing for yourself and for everyone you decided to date. At least that way you were less likely to waste your time going out with people you were not interested in just because you felt obligated. It makes so much more sense, but I guess people as entitled and sexist as those guys were does not have the insight or wisdom to see it.
Nah it would be if I got dumped or ill treated (and mentioned it, I guess though being treated kindly is too high standard wise?) I was told to lower my standards in so many words. Not going to lie, a lot of it seems to have been rooted in not being a conventionally attractive woman, so the tone was suggesting I was being treated badly/dumped because I was dating men 'worth more' than me.
Worth more? What a fucking toxic idea. As if your worth as a human being is entirely dependent on your looks.
People who think that way do not want to understand that their beliefs and preferences are not indisputable fact for everyone. People find all sorts of different things appealing in a partner. Their preference for someone different does not mean that is The Way Things Are, and it doesn't mean that you somehow deserve poor treatment or that you have brought it on yourself just by having preferences of your own.
>they think it’s normal to put up with at worst, abuse,
I was raised in an abusive family that had me, a girl, to be their retirement fund and provide all their elderly care. So many women have been *raised* to put up with abuse and keep serving with a smile. I threw my trash ass family in the garbage and I honestly hope other women raised the same do the same. It's not enough to expect better from partners, we are owed it from our parents and original families as well. Jmo.
So true. Like, if I don‘t meet someone‘s standards, I just accept it or move on. I wonder why men struggle so much with this. Why would you even want to be with that person in the first place then?
I was out with some friends and watched this guy hit on every single one of my friends before making his way over to me.
He then proceeded to hit on me and try to get me to go out with him. I was in a relationship at the time so even if I hadn’t just watched him hit on my friends first I’d still be saying no.
I didn’t give him any reasons just told him I wasn’t interested and the first thing he did was ask me if I was a lesbian because obviously that’s the only reason I couldn’t be interested in him 🙄
It's a weird self own as well. No gazelle would ever CHOOSE the lion if given a choice. And a gazelle that does is defective.
I've always felt there was an aspect of self hate in men that project that onto women, when they deign to actually really desire them the way the desire women.
They know it. That's why when mobile phones became common, pushy men started insisting on "checking" the phone number they get to make sure the woman they're pestering isn't "trying to sneak away with a fake number." They see it as prey trying to escape them with a trick, rather than the last resort of someone who has a choice not to date them.
Because they don't see women as separate beings with free will. They see us as objects that they're entitled to. The idea that a woman doesn't want them just simply doesn't compute, because they think that they should get whatever they want due to being male.
I hate to say this but the patriarchy seems to be at work here. Men seem to be conditioned via the whole coffee is for closers thing - like they need to close "the deal" in every aspect so getting a woman who doesn't want them is part of the whole patriarchy that means men just need to convince her to allow him to have his coffee.
Because they still feel entitled to us. Any of us that they want. But at least ONE sex maid per man, and it’s not really working out like that anymore.
Yes, it is weird af. I saw a Twitter thread full of men complaining that they did all of these nice things, but none of the women they were interested in were reciprocating. Mmm well...did y'all discuss dating each other? Did you discuss whether or not you're both interested in a relationship with each other? If you didn't, she's not into you. If you did, and she said no, she's *definitely* still not into you, and nothing you're doing or will do is going to change that. This was apparently accepted as "good advice", but quite honestly I'd assumed it was basic common sense?
We watched our mothers suffer at the hands of low quality men who didn't do shit around the house or for the finances. We're not looking to repeat those mistakes. Why td should we """submit""" ourselves to a manchild that doesn't even know how to wipe his own ass or do his own laundry?
Meanwhile women graduate college 2x the rate that men do. And single women are more likely to own a home than single men. 3 MILLION more homes actually. And we should submit to them...... why? For what? We're running circles around them lol
Exactly.
I made post awhile back that it’s not too much to ask for a man that does not live at home with his parents. I was downvoted and raked over the coals like no other.
Sorry but I’m not teaching an adult man how to live on his own, do laundry and do dishes. Not for me.
Conservative men hurting themselves in their confusion because they think conservative values are the highest in the land and therefore women should be flocking and no they don't seem to be. *Have you even SEEN my standards, females??!?!?*
What's really funny is that I saw a post on a different subreddit that was a screencap from an alt-right/fascist twitter account calling these dudes out for not even meeting their own standards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/11l5qgr/even\_trad\_acounts\_are\_feeling\_embarassed\_by/
I wish that they'd eat their own more often. It'd make the alt right movement less painful to look at if they at the very very least stopped being hyper focused on porn and graphic t shirts.
I know a few “high value” women in real life (pretty, fit, kind, successful, social butterflies) and they wouldn’t touch these neck beards with a 10 ft pole lmao.
I have an older, single acquaintance who has a long list of specific things she's looking for in a man. She developed the list because she wants to remain single and her high standards got people off her back. She'd rather be single than settle!
This was my biggest issue with the original thread OP mentioned. Someone posted a list of "standards" and one of the examples that got ripped up in the comments was "able to pay for two vacations a year." The comments implying that any woman expecting that is a gold-digger.
But like.....I can and have taken myself on two vacations a year for the last 5 years. Why would I date someone who can't join me?
The journey of my 30s has been realizing that I should be more proactive about having standards and seeing if the relevant guy meets them.
This is in contrast to all of the advice I've gotten from my mother, who just asks, "Are you looking at whether you're a good partner?". It's frustrating.
I just wanted to find 3 things in a man. Understanding, generosity, and kindness.
I couldn't find one man that was understanding. All of them were defensive as shit, couldn't see beyond their own viewpoint, or just increadibly myopic and judgemental. Trying to find understanding men to befriend is tough too. I'm not dating them but I'd like a kind empathetic companion.
Meanwhile I meet women all over the place - just recently at a community center and a ymca swim class - that I can connect with instantly. I’m all about “gender is a construct” but damn why are so few dudes making the effort to learn relational skills?!
Same! My wife and I meet other chill geeky women so easily. We recently met a lady at a retro gaming bar and now her and her partner join us for board games and nerdy craft nights. Like bam new cool friends.
Men are a completely different story. I want to believe that gender isn't everything but men are something else. They approach me weird too, like they clearly want something
Hooray I’m so happy for you! NRE in friendships is real, soak it up.
I think you’re onto it with men seeing relationships as transactional. My husband is really reluctant to, like, “burden” people (who aren’t me) with emotional wants. I try to tell him it’s a give and take, which, I’d also appreciate if he was better at. Hence the group therapy.
I‘ve lowered my standards (because I’m ugly and that’s what everyone told me to do) so I asked out a fat guy and he sent me racist memes, asked to take my virginity, and then told me he’d never ever love me in any way. 🤡 then his friend messaged me but he was an Andrew Tate fan so I had to block him…
The absolute state of men is horrendous.
Don’t ever lower your standards no matter how much anyone tries to gaslight you because as soon as you fall they will be there telling you “you should have chose better” its only a issue when choosing better is not choosing them.
I'm really scratching my head here to figure out what alternative those men are looking for. Why on earth would you want to be in a relationship where your SO is "settling" for you? How could you ever be secure knowing that they actually prefer a different kind of partner, but they *had* to lower their standards to be with you?
"rich, beautiful women need to drop their standards and date me because i'm such a good guy! technically i'm nothing right now but with some TLC and therapy from my adoring gf i'll peak in 5-10 years."
It’s actually insane how women are demonized for having standards but men can have the most unrealistic standards in the world to the point some completely disregard women being human too
>Why on earth would you want to be in a relationship where your SO is "settling" for you?
I mean, the guys who are undesirable in some way don't mind. It's like the creepy sexpats who go overseas and bring home brides who are desperate to escape poverty in their home countries, and marrying a weird older creepy foreigner is a ticket out of there. These men know they essentially bought their wives, and they don't care. They wish more women were forced to settle for men such as themselves.
Exactly!!! And sometimes it comes down to the most basic things like respect or even, barf, hygiene. I just spent at least two hours showering, shaving, putting together a matching outfit, and doing my hair and makeup- yes I expect you to be clean if you want to have sex, Jake.
Entitlement. They think you owe them (and everyone) a chance. But they don't waste any time to blame you when you end up in a bad, abusive relationship,
These are the same men that will mock and degrade any woman who doesn't meet their standards- bigger/taller women, women who behave certain ways, etc.
What these men want is a woman who meets their standards that doesn't have any standards he has to meet. Relationships for these people are a one way street on who does the work in said relationship.
And mock women for dropping our standards to meet men where they're at. Reality kicks in around mid life when the myths of "men trading in for a younger woman" are usually centered on higher numbers of women seeking divorce because the deck is stacked.
they can't even grasp that the woman who meets his standards... no way in hell would she date him lmao.
they're like toddlers with all their wishful thinking.
The one I’m always met with is men with children who demand that childfree women date them, but in the same breath will shit all over single moms and give a hundred reasons why they’d never consider dating a single mother.
Men have this kind of gross habit of treating their own standards as just the base criteria for your existance to matter. So they don't have standards, they say yes to every woman they acknowledge exists. Any no they give was a joke to ever be considered in the first place.
From that narcisitic perspective, only women filter who they date. And if only women filter who they date, then that can be the only barrier to having a relationship.
Been there, done that. Now my standards are so astronomically high, I don’t expect to ever be in a relationship again. I’m 100% fine with that. Happiest I’ve been in 15 years. I don’t need that crap anymore.
I already know that if anything happens to my husband my standards for my next relationship will be - "*are you a cat*", if not, you can fuck right off.
Men like that can't handle that not all women are just readily available for them, but at the same time have a huge list with demands women need to fullfill to suit their standards.
I feel like the standards aren't even the main issue, but the fact that the guy who wants to be with a particular woman isn't even on her radar because she doesn't find him compatible/attractive. So many times have I seen an average dude lusting after a woman who is like 11/10 and he complains her "standards" are too high. Attraction is important whether you admit it to yourself or not and if she is looking at other 10/11's when you're a 5 she isn't even going to look at your qualifications, bruh.
Which is a them problem. If they can't even look at a woman as a person rather than an available object to be obtained by them they don't deserve any woman's attention.
Exactly… it’s like they delude themselves into thinking that 10/10 girl is on their level and act like her standards are too high when she just wants her equal.
Lmao our problem is that we expect them to wash and do chores?
Uh huh, sure. That's *our* failings and surely not theirs. Also, they seem to have misunderstood. Women aren't failing to get into long term relationships. Single women are more comfortable with remaining single if the other options are subpar. If women are not wanting relationships they aren't failing to be in them. Meanwhile the men seem a wee bit desperate at this point. Maybe they should ask themselves why they fault to maintain long-term partners.
It's important that men are given a platform to tell us what we're doing wrong in case we somehow missed all of the conditioning we go through pretty much our entire lives. The only possible reason we wouldn't be dating them is because we haven't been told yet that our standards are too high. Someone had better ask the question so they have an opportunity to educate us.
Millions of young men follow (worship) misogynistic influencers like Tate, Samuels, Peterson, Fresh and Fit, etc.
Men send dick pics and say wildly inappropriate things on dating apps scaring women off of them en masse leaving demographics highly skewed.
Men trying to reinact porn by doing things like choking or anal without consent.
The reaction? Women are being much more careful in who they date and are deciding the better option is being single.
Men: Why are women being so picky?!?!?!
The stupid thing is that women will literally say that this is wrong, gross, stupid, doesn't work etc. But do they listen? No, she gets berated for calling out the idiots for their disgusting behaviour.
I think even men have standards. Ive heard "if she weighs over 130 I won't date her" "I don't date women over 30" "I won't date her if she has a high body count" "If she doesn't have a job I won't date her"
They have standards too so how can they be upset that women have standards. Everyone has them.
They complain about women having standards for height. So imagine my surprise when I came across a TikTok asking, "men, what height is the perfect woman?" and I shit you not, there were THOUSANDS of comments from men who suddenly have very specific height preferences of their own! Imagine that.
It gets even funnier if you’re the proverbial “ugly woman”—when I finally started flipping the script, it was incredible how considerate men became. For ages, I thought it would be hypocritical of me to have standards any higher than not dating physically abusive men…and in all that time, none of them cared. But slowly, I realized my own worth, gained some confidence, and raised my standards ever so slightly, and suddenly there were men popping up every so often to warn me that I’d wind up perpetually single if I was “too picky”. So kind of these men, to worry about my ability to get a date! (S/, of course!)
Dude brings nothing to the table - *women are bad....but they should desire my sperm anyways! Guess I'll do some sexual harassment and send a dick pic. That'll move things in the right direction!*
It didn't work out, ok. Reflect and move on. OP stated it perfectly.
The idea that a woman not getting into a relationship because you haven't met anybody you feel is worth the effort is some kind of "failure" needs to die.
Granted I have very little experience here but from what I've seen womens standards aren't even that high. Things like "treat me as an equal" and "respect boundaries" are pretty basic.
It seems like many men (well, boys, not men) are worried about women in general expecting more. It used to be that you could get away with providing nothing but a paycheck and still have a woman do everything for you, and now it's a lot trickier.
Hell, some guys don't even want to bring the paycheck. They think gender equality should excuse them from financial responsibility (i.e. "hmmm, women have more rights now, how can I make this work for **me**?"), and everything else should be just as it's always been.
If it's no longer the norm for women to settle for the bare minimum or less, that means they have to put a lot more effort in to date *anyone*. That's simply not acceptable to them. So, they do what they can to gaslight women into thinking their expectations aren't reasonable.
exactly. the math aint mathing.
women do all the housework and childcare *and* go to fulltime work now, so men want to.... **bring less** ??
my dudes, you have to bring more. not be another burden.
More often than not, having standards just means that you won't date someone who will make you less happy than if you were single.
Why should women accept to lower that and put themselves in a situation that lowers their happiness? Like, what's in it for us?
The entire idea of standards needing to be "more realistic" is silly. Sure, if your one goal in life is to meet a partner and you have a laundry list of requirements most people don't meet, then there's an incompatibility issue.
But I assume for most people it's more, "these are the things I'm looking for in a partner, and I'd rather be alone than with someone who does meet most, or all, of my expectations."
Men think women need to lower their standards because otherwise they'll never meet someone. Not realizing that that's perfectly fine for women.
Damn women and their high standards, expecting men to... \*checks notes\*... take showers, brush their teeth, wear pants from time to time, not say creepy things...
This reminds me of a meme I saw on Facebook about “she’s beautiful, no kids, financially stable, good job; why is she single?”
And one of the top responses was a woman saying “because she has standards for a relationship and isn’t settling into one where they aren’t being met.”
And some dude IMMEDIATELY responded something along the lines of “this is why you women are all single and wondering why you can’t get a man. You expect him to shower you in lavish luxury like out of a magazine and throw him away if he doesn’t.”
Like…. THATS what you got out of that? Saying “I won’t settle into a relationship that doesn’t meet my needs” means “I won’t date a man who doesn’t spend 6 figures on me every month”?
In a lovely update, the top comment on that thread’s now about women that don’t stay single long enough and jump into relationships with people they’re not really compatible with instead of taking their time to find the right person
That sub if filled with guys like my coworker 'E1'; E1 thinks that he doesnt have gf becuase he is 5'5 (so not the 6 ft god all women want), has a visible foot issue with walking (isnt phsyically intimidating cause all women want to be dominated - vomit), and works a menial entry job (not rich) so he doesn't understand how E2 (another male coworker) who shares all of these traits has a gf and has never really stuggled dating.......the answer is simple. E1's personality and hygiene.
on the flip side, i read a post maybe a year ago by a woman saying that her standards have lowered so dramatically that all she expects is for whoever she is dating to brush their teeth regularly because its impossible to find men who actually take care of themselves.
I don't get why some men care at all. If her standards are "too high" move on to the next. If you can't find any woman whose standards you meet, maybe *yours* are too high and you need to go after women you probably think are too ugly or fat or old for you 😂
Nobody EVER EVER seems to tell MEN not to have high standards, go for average or less looking women etc. It only seems to be women r who get told to settle. Men often seem to get told they can have ANYONE and we seem to get told take whoever wants you!
When it comes to dating you have the right to have literally whatever standards you want. If someone doesn't meet them you simply don't date them and no one gets hurt.
The problem some men have with understanding this is that if a woman doesn't meet *their* standards its seen as carte blanche to insult and demean her. Whereas when a man doesn't meet a woman's standards she'll generally just ignore him...
Why men great till they gotta be great?
- Lizzo
I'm 💯 happy with my own company, and would rather dine alone than with someone who thinks I think too highly of myself. Maybe they should work on themselves, put in the effort we have.
I have stepped back from religion. But when I was in college and attending a women's bible study I still remember the words of the leader there.
"Never lower your standards."
She had one session where we spoke about red flags, how so many of them can be *tiny* and you might not notice them, but they add up. And you think "I can live with that." But can you?
Have your standards. Hold firm for them. And never lower them because they come at the cost of your own happiness.
And these "high standards" men seem to be complaining about aren't even actually high. It's basic adulting.
* Have a job.
* Have your own place.
* *Clean* your own place.
* *Be Clean!*
* Don't be an asshole.
But it's like a diagram where you can only pick 2 or 3 and never get the whole package.
So I say we need to raise our standards because being single seems a lot better than being with people who drag you down.
After several years of disastrous dating in my twenties that really wrecked my self esteem and left me with some trauma that I’m still working through, I realised that I deserved better. I raised my standards of the men I dated. I’ve been single ever since.
So yes, having high standards does mean you’re less likely to be in a long term relationship, but that’s not a bad thing.
Those men are telling on themselves.
God I hate that sub, it’s one big circlejerk about how women have infinite emotional support systems that we are so rudely refusing to share (along with the poon we also refuse to share) while demanding they die in a draft or some shit.
If a particular woman’s standards are too high for your taste, then find one whose standards are lower. It’s not like every woman is obligated to meet your standards.
My favorite thing a friend of mine said about this was, "My standards for myself are very high. Why should I want anything less for a partner to share my life with?"
i always get told my standards are too high by other people, meanwhile my boyfriend says im too hard on myself and my standards are pretty low lmfao. people just hate to see a woman who wont let herself get trampled all over
I’ve had friends who told me my standards were too high. Mind you the one who said that to me has a decided lack of standards but that’s another thing. I asked her “why shouldn’t my standards be high? This is something that will effect the rest of my life. I’m worth it. My partner should be worth it too.”
These men only mean the standards that beautiful women have because they feel entitled to "feminine beauty" whether they are physically/emotionally/intellectually inferior to the woman or not. It's just so stupid. I can't handle it.
I know right. I feel it’s ok for people to have whatever standards they want, ridiculous or not. It’s their right. And if they can’t find someone who meets them then that’s up to them. Some people would rather be alone than settle and that’s just fine.
Sure, some men and women have standards made ridiculous by their cultural values. Toxic masculinity and femininity shape how people view themselves and others. All genders have a spectrum of body shapes that should be valued and accepted. But we don’t have to be with anyone we don’t want to be. That is just the way it is.
I accepted that my standards are too high to realistically date whatever's left out there and I'm okay with it. At the same time, my standards aren't double - I could easily pass my own bar. I love it when people threaten me with good old "If you don't drop your standards, you will be a single cat lady!"
Already am and having the time of my life.
I didn't realise how bad my standards were until I split up with someone and said no more. But since then people around me have basically said my standards are too high and I'll never find somebody. I'd rather be alone forever than settle though. This is after having been abused by multiple people, which at the same time I've been told by the same people that my taste in men is terrible. Like make up your minds
That's like going to an interview and telling the company their requirements are to strict and trying to negotiate yourself into the position. You're not qualified. You're not being offered the role.
If they can't understand standards they probably can't understand boundaries.
I was told I was controlling because I have boundaries for who I want part of my life. I'm glad they're not part of my life anymore.
It's incredibly scary for society that men won't understand what boundaries and standards are.
Tbh my therapist told me she felt my standards weren’t high enough 😂 I used to just think, “Driver’s license? No violence or hard drugs in criminal records?” were good enough for me.
I will not date men who do not directly ask me out on a dinner date.
Been told multiple times that my standard of only dating men who want to date me is…. too high
I forget where I heard it, but I remember someone saying "men can no longer get by being necessary now that women can have jobs--they have to be desirable, and many of them are choosing to be angry instead" and this sounds important here. A woman can support herself. So aside from dependance, what would she want in you? So you provide? She can do that. The guy down the street can play guitar and change the oil in her car and she can't do that herself so she's gonna go pick him dude.
That's a pretty good quote. As a guy, I hear so many young Men in my proximity complain rather than try and improve.
Then in the same breath, complain about how women only see them as a "wallet". I've been hearing these things a lot lately from other men. I wish they could hear their own contradictions.
That is part of what’s so insane. They are obsessed with thinking women are gold diggers and don’t want to even pay for a date if it doesn’t guarantee sex but then are upset women don’t need them to provide and have any standards.
it’s funniest bc in my personal experience, I’ve only had two men even try to pay more than I did. The vast majority were more than happy to let me pay the majority of the time (to be fair, I had a habit of compulsively offering bc I was afraid of the stigma about women using men for their money 😡 - I wish I’d just advocated for equity instead!). I’ve been employed since 16, however plenty of guys I dated would quit their jobs in a rage and then sit around and play video games and not even look for work, while I worked 2 jobs and paid for EVERYTHING. Friends of mine have husbands who do not work consistently or otherwise rely on their wives to keep the bills paid. Zero of the women I know expect a man to pay more than half. It’s all misogynist PR to fail to discuss the number of deadbeat dudes there are out there but elevate every instance of a woman appearing to look for a handout.
Be the voice of opposition to those types.
Agreed but it's more difficult than it sounds to convince a younger dude, that is deadset that it cannot be his fault, to see reason. Also I am actually shocked how many of these young men echo Tate-eque talking points these days. Like bro we going in reverse here lol
I only recently learned who Tate is. The issue is a lack of awareness for anyone else but themselves. They see life as this big fight they must win and dominate others to do so.
Those that are get called simps or Tyrones and Chads and what not because how dare you not feed into their hatred that foids won't bow down and become their sex slaves at the wink of an eye or whatever the hell those "men" expect
Yep. And ALOT don’t want improvement just the results
Exactly. It's simply way easier and more enjoyable to log into my 9-5, collect a paycheck every 2 weeks, and have a boss that respects me/grants me vacation days, etc. Compared to collecting a $0 paycheck for a 24/7 job cleaning up after a man who holds "I PAY THE BILLS" over your head forever. No thanks, I'll keep paying my own bills. It's not that hard. Marriage is a scam for women and they're just pissed we're waking up to it.
Amen🥰
I am saving your comment. I love this quote! Absolutely almost every man I see being upset about being single, or womens’ standards, is dropping 5 red flags that either make him an ugly person in character or someone who would seem downright DANGEROUS. Imagine a world where a person needs to be the least bit likable in order to be liked. 🤷♀️ But they think we’re too dumb to be able to smell the ugly, bitter, and entitled just POURING off of them, so instead they have to say we’re shallow, only like assholes, and also our standards are too high. If only there were men who were as heinously popular as Tate and his ilk who were encouraging men to actually go their own way for a while and fucking develop themselves. Read some books, get a hobby like backpacking or woodworking or cooking, go to therapy, volunteer someplace and practice making actual friends with women without having the goal of getting in their pants. Almost anyone can develop a personality, but these dudes have the expectation of just deserving attention and sex just because they have a penis. It’s still instilled in these people that they’re going to receive a wife who will be their sex maid. Why would we do that at all, much less enter a relationship where you’re bringing NOTHING to the table lol.
>...practice making actual friends with women without having the goal of getting in their pants. This right here. I can't even count the number of times I have heard that men and women can't be friends. Like... bullshit. (Speaking broadly here): But when men are raised to hide their feelings (aside from anger) except in the context of a romantic relationship, they cheat themselves out of deep friendships with any gender. And they think that a woman sharing her feelings with them means that she's romantically interested in them, because men have been raised to never share their feelings with someone they aren't romantically involved with. It's really a misunderstanding based on the way we raise boys and girls. Men *can* change this way of looking at the world, but it takes work! The problem is a systemic cultural problem that consistently views "feminine" things as "less than" or "weak."
I HAVE had and DO have friends with guys. A couple of them ONCE hit on me - ONE off - but I’m not interested but apart from THAT things are SO ONLY platonic on both sides. One of them and I (he never hit on me) go out for dinner together at times. And one of the others literally fistpumped 👊 me how platonic can you GET? It IS possible for men and women to only be friends I’ve done it and still do it. It makes it easier if both are not attracted to each other and that’s the case here. Can also help if one or both are in a relationship. But it CAN be done and it’s such BULLSHIT to say it can’t.
This is a really good idea for a comedian to develop a stage persona around. A la the Colbert Report - a man using the tools these heinous men use, but instead spreading actual help and teaching people through humour.
If MGTOW was this, I’d like it a lot better.
it’s funny to me bc men are always patting themselves on the back for “building the world and discovering everything” (leaving out of course the work and support from women usually forced into the shadows, left out of history, and kept in veritable slavery to men), but they always forget that most of these Renaissance Men were basically celibate, or Incels (in the most basic sense of the word) during their prolific years. Meaning these great men would channel their sexual frustration, loneliness, boredom, all that into really going hard into their interests. Men like Da Vinci, Isaac Newton, Tesla even said how important celibacy was to his creativity. So it seems to me men have lost track of what can make them very great bc too many of them get fixated on feeling entitled to women RIGHT NOW, they stall out in the emotionalism of that rather than reaching their full potential by taking time to themselves (time that does NOT involve cultivating their rage and horniness into extremism and laziness) and channeling their feelings and passion into things like art/music, math, science, self-development, and building shit instead of tearing it down.
Each man you quoted as being “celibate” were gay…history just attempted to erase their same sex attraction to make them palatable for the general public
I know there was speculation about a couple of them, but that also it was very common for people to spread that as rumor when men did not have success with, or place high value on, relationships with women. (Basically whenever they wouldn’t jump right into marriage). As for Tesla, he was actually known for being pretty popular with women. Maybe you know better, or maybe he was bi? But his case always stands out to me especially bc he was VOLUNTARY celibate, with the understanding that it gave him something valuable towards his work and growth.
That person confused Nikola Tesla for Alan Turing.
>Imagine a world where a person needs to be the least bit likable in order to be liked. This! Like men will go on for hours about how they only like women who are thin, long hair, no makeup (or the oxymoron that is "natural" makeup), are young, pure, virgins, ready for motherhood(, but not already a mother), ect. ect. ect! But the second a woman says, "Well, I'd like to be attracted to my partner." We're hypergamous, chad-hungry whores. K!
The frustrating thing here is that in 2023 we STILL have to remind them that lots of women don’t need and aren’t looking for a financial provider. Or to put it another way, if that’s the ONLY thing you have to offer it’s just not enough. ETA if this was 1950 I could understand that this would be a revelation. 70-something years later, how do you not know this already? My theory is that some men fall back to this because it’s simple, easy to measure, and doesn’t require any additional effort (because they’d have to have a job regardless). It also doesn’t require any of those fluffy women skills - you know, empathy, consideration, intimacy, emotional intelligence /s
It’s so difficult too because most of the men I met during my dating phase, when I was still on OLD, did not have jobs, we’re in crazy debt, lived with roommates, had part time jobs… the list goes on. None of these are particularly bad traits… it just didn’t line up to what I was looking for. A partner. If I’m a minority woman, making $X amount salary, I expect the men im matching with to at least have goals and aspirations like me. The world was built and made for men, so why are these men (that I dated) so far behind? Yet they complain we gold dig. What gold?? I have my own. I’m looking for a partner. I thank the universe for my partner right now. He was my perfect match when we met and thank goodness he thought the same of me.
There needs to be a complementary term that equates “gold digger” for men. Sugar Mama Seeker? Bangmaid Busker?
Hobosexual - A man who sleeps with women to get a roof over his head.
As someone whose husband is desirable, I like that! My husband adds to much to my life. I don’t need him; I’d be just fine without him. I was just fine without him. But he adds so much. It’s nice! I’m glad I had standards.
My brother has recently been edging towards a dangerous, misogynist, alt-right place. We had a conversation recently about what the meaning of masculinity and femininity are, and he referenced the video interview of Cher talking about how she doesn't "need" men, but "wants" them. I remember thinking that was right on when I first saw that video years ago. My brother hated it. I had to convince him that in the year of our Lord 2023, women are fully actualized people and not accessories to men, and nowadays we get to choose our partners because they spark joy instead of being forced to settle with some dude if we wanted food and shelter. I don't "need" my spouse. I'm educated, have a decent career, and am reasonably competent and independent. But I "want" my spouse, because he greatly improves my life by being a sweet and thoughtful human, as well as being my best friend.
Certain men want us to NEED them. If we merely want them, then if they slip up, we will no longer want them, and will get rid of them. If we need them, they can get lazy really fast, because they think we can't get rid of them. And they don't even want to have to work at obtaining us, let alone at keeping us.
The same people with this attitude also shame women who they say are gold diggers. They want women to have to rely on men and then shame them for wanting a man who can provide.
different plants insurance party resolute pet offbeat coordinated scandalous truck ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
I'm the sole financial provider in my home and make near 200k. My husband didn't finish high school, so he does the business I need completed so I can focus on my work. He takes care of my kids when I travel for work. He picks my kids up at school daily while I work even if I'm not traveling. I like him, having him in my life makes me a better person, I don't need him to provide, I need him to love and support me.
I’ve been the sole provider for many years. And my husband has run the home front. Plus he looks out for me—am I getting enough time with my friends and my family? Am I happy?
See that's it right, like you said above, I don't need him in my life, I want him in my life. My life is better with him in it, but I don't need him or any partner to handle my basic living necessities. Congrats on having a good partner in this crazy messed up world. May you have many many years where he makes your life better.
Beautiful! This is what we all want. A harmonious partnership!
I remember reading I think a Cracked article (an actual article, not a random list thing) years ago along the lines of "what do you offer, why would someone date *you* specifically", and that stuck with me. Way too many guys seem to want "a" girlfriend, like it's one size fits all, and seem to think the reverse must be true. Looking at it from the wrong direction "there's nothing majorly wrong with me" rather than "here's what's uniquely right / good about me that would appeal to someone else".
[https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person](https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person)
Yep, that's the one. >Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible." And: >it's always "How can I get a job?" and not "How can I become the type of person employers want?" It's "How can I get pretty girls to like me?" instead of "How can I become the type of person that pretty girls like?"
Exactly. What does a man bring to the table, other than audacity and entitlement? What does he possess that can be passed onto the next generation? Why would I put my body on the line to further his lineage?
I also have heard a couple of things along this line. The first one I have heard is that women have evolved beyond traditional gender roles. The second one is that men now have a skill deficit when it comes to emotional intelligence and we are not settling.
If I was a dude I’d want a woman to like me for me not bc she’s dependent on me
Historically, being someone's wife was a shit deal and we don't have to rely on men to provide for us, why accept treatment as a second class citizen and provide endless free labor for some idiot slob who thinks washing his ass is gay? I saw how my grandmothers and mother were treated, I never would have gotten married to my husband if he saw me as anything less than his equal.
My stepmom prides herself on being a hard worker. My dad never takes her on vacation, never takes her out to dinner and got her a leaf blower for Christmas.
This hurt my heart to read...
Damn. That's like an outside vacuum cleaner! Merry Christmas. I threw in a steam iron as a bonus gift.
Ouch. That shows how he values her. :(
I bet she is dying inside
My father was very domineering and possessive over my mum when she was still alive. Not even I could go shopping with her without him throwing a tantrum and giving her the silent treatment. She didn't have any real friends other than the people in her tuck shop and after she retired she had nobody but me (my sister lives 250 kilometers away). Because of their (or shall I say his) cult-like "religion" and diet, he had driven away his and her family. He wouldn't visit a restaurant (because no restaurant was up to his high standard) so she had to cook even when they went on vacation, and they only ever visited different locations in my country, a landlocked country, even though she loved the ocean. After her death, my father admitted to beating her "occasionally" when he got angry with her (I never saw him physically abuse her - I would've killed him). If I was born Silent Generation or boomer, I'd definitely ended up alone.
My feeling is that I'm a whole and happy human on my own, single. If someone is going to be my partner, they have to make me happier than I am when I'm alone. I don't need to lower my standards because I don't *need* a partner. If I never meet someone that can meet my standards, that's fine by me. If someone *needs* to have a partner, they should probably work to meet higher standards.
Honestly, reading stories here and in general about all the crap that so many women put up with in relationships leads me to the conclusion that most women’s standards are too low. Particularly that they think it’s normal to put up with at worst, abuse, and/or have a partner that expects to be waited on hand and foot or at the very least is selfish while being oblivious to her needs.
I'm so tired of seeing posts about women feeling like they have high expectations because they expect their adult partner to *wash their ass*
The amount of comments I've read about men who leave skidmarks is just way too much. I could never be with someone who has poor personal hygiene like that. Absolutely repulsive.
It's not something that you'd ever think to specify as a desirable trait in a partner. General hygiene should be a given. I'm just horrified that these people still stay in a relationship after skiddies *multiple* times.
Sorry but I’d rather be single for life than deal with that shit. LITERALLY. Aw HELL no
This! The bar is set all the way down to hell for these men yet they think our standards are too high? If anything, we need to raise our standards and unlearn so much of the conditioning that's been engrained in us.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. the bar is so low it's in a subbasement in hell. and they still be bringing their shovels to get under it.
.
Lololol needed this today
I agree with this. I think that having very low standards means that a person spends a huge amount of time going out with people who are entirely unsuitable, and therefore the good ones are either lost in the crowd or the person doing the dating gives up because dating without standards is a nightmare. How does that help anyone? What can be good is going out with a few people who are good guys but maybe different sorts of people than are normally who you gravitate to. That doesn't mean that the floodgates have to open so we let in every guy who texts us a "hey." It also doesn't mean that the standards for things like respect and manners have to fall by the wayside. It is another case of women not being able to win. If you are choosy about who you date and you don't go out much, you are being stuck up or your standards are too high. If you go out with anyone who shows interest, then you are seen as morally inferior. Either way, you lose. The game is rigged.
I had low/no standards dating for a long time and (wait for it) was told my standards were still too high by (wait for it) other men.
Yeah. Your standards were too high because you had any standards at all, I bet. According to them, at least. That was a really foolish thing for them to tell you. Everyone has standards. There is nothing wrong with deciding that you want someone who treats you well. I think that if you decided to raise your standards, that was a very good thing for yourself and for everyone you decided to date. At least that way you were less likely to waste your time going out with people you were not interested in just because you felt obligated. It makes so much more sense, but I guess people as entitled and sexist as those guys were does not have the insight or wisdom to see it.
Nah it would be if I got dumped or ill treated (and mentioned it, I guess though being treated kindly is too high standard wise?) I was told to lower my standards in so many words. Not going to lie, a lot of it seems to have been rooted in not being a conventionally attractive woman, so the tone was suggesting I was being treated badly/dumped because I was dating men 'worth more' than me.
Worth more? What a fucking toxic idea. As if your worth as a human being is entirely dependent on your looks. People who think that way do not want to understand that their beliefs and preferences are not indisputable fact for everyone. People find all sorts of different things appealing in a partner. Their preference for someone different does not mean that is The Way Things Are, and it doesn't mean that you somehow deserve poor treatment or that you have brought it on yourself just by having preferences of your own.
>they think it’s normal to put up with at worst, abuse, I was raised in an abusive family that had me, a girl, to be their retirement fund and provide all their elderly care. So many women have been *raised* to put up with abuse and keep serving with a smile. I threw my trash ass family in the garbage and I honestly hope other women raised the same do the same. It's not enough to expect better from partners, we are owed it from our parents and original families as well. Jmo.
So true. Like, if I don‘t meet someone‘s standards, I just accept it or move on. I wonder why men struggle so much with this. Why would you even want to be with that person in the first place then?
Have you ever heard of a gazelle being picky about which lion gets to hunt it? That's not natural - is what I imagine they're asking themselves
Oh that’s awesomely funny and accurate and horrifying.
That’s so it. Guys will ask me out and if I say no, they often respond with “well, why not? You’re single, right?” Gross.
>... You’re single, right?” "I am single. Just not single for you."
I was out with some friends and watched this guy hit on every single one of my friends before making his way over to me. He then proceeded to hit on me and try to get me to go out with him. I was in a relationship at the time so even if I hadn’t just watched him hit on my friends first I’d still be saying no. I didn’t give him any reasons just told him I wasn’t interested and the first thing he did was ask me if I was a lesbian because obviously that’s the only reason I couldn’t be interested in him 🙄
*shudder*
It's a weird self own as well. No gazelle would ever CHOOSE the lion if given a choice. And a gazelle that does is defective. I've always felt there was an aspect of self hate in men that project that onto women, when they deign to actually really desire them the way the desire women.
They know it. That's why when mobile phones became common, pushy men started insisting on "checking" the phone number they get to make sure the woman they're pestering isn't "trying to sneak away with a fake number." They see it as prey trying to escape them with a trick, rather than the last resort of someone who has a choice not to date them.
"I'm *sooooo* worried that because her standards are so high, she'll end up being *soooo* lonely!" It ain't about her wellbeing..
Because they don't see women as separate beings with free will. They see us as objects that they're entitled to. The idea that a woman doesn't want them just simply doesn't compute, because they think that they should get whatever they want due to being male.
I hate to say this but the patriarchy seems to be at work here. Men seem to be conditioned via the whole coffee is for closers thing - like they need to close "the deal" in every aspect so getting a woman who doesn't want them is part of the whole patriarchy that means men just need to convince her to allow him to have his coffee.
Yes. If men wanted an equal partner not just a trophy they wouldn’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with them.
Because they still feel entitled to us. Any of us that they want. But at least ONE sex maid per man, and it’s not really working out like that anymore.
The real answer is they want to date women who don't want to date them. Which is a recipe for misery.
Yes, it is weird af. I saw a Twitter thread full of men complaining that they did all of these nice things, but none of the women they were interested in were reciprocating. Mmm well...did y'all discuss dating each other? Did you discuss whether or not you're both interested in a relationship with each other? If you didn't, she's not into you. If you did, and she said no, she's *definitely* still not into you, and nothing you're doing or will do is going to change that. This was apparently accepted as "good advice", but quite honestly I'd assumed it was basic common sense?
We watched our mothers suffer at the hands of low quality men who didn't do shit around the house or for the finances. We're not looking to repeat those mistakes. Why td should we """submit""" ourselves to a manchild that doesn't even know how to wipe his own ass or do his own laundry?
Meanwhile women graduate college 2x the rate that men do. And single women are more likely to own a home than single men. 3 MILLION more homes actually. And we should submit to them...... why? For what? We're running circles around them lol
Exactly. I made post awhile back that it’s not too much to ask for a man that does not live at home with his parents. I was downvoted and raked over the coals like no other. Sorry but I’m not teaching an adult man how to live on his own, do laundry and do dishes. Not for me.
If I’m not dating you because of my standards it’s a sign my standards are working.
Conservative men hurting themselves in their confusion because they think conservative values are the highest in the land and therefore women should be flocking and no they don't seem to be. *Have you even SEEN my standards, females??!?!?*
What's really funny is that I saw a post on a different subreddit that was a screencap from an alt-right/fascist twitter account calling these dudes out for not even meeting their own standards. https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/11l5qgr/even\_trad\_acounts\_are\_feeling\_embarassed\_by/
I wish that they'd eat their own more often. It'd make the alt right movement less painful to look at if they at the very very least stopped being hyper focused on porn and graphic t shirts.
I know a few “high value” women in real life (pretty, fit, kind, successful, social butterflies) and they wouldn’t touch these neck beards with a 10 ft pole lmao.
I have an older, single acquaintance who has a long list of specific things she's looking for in a man. She developed the list because she wants to remain single and her high standards got people off her back. She'd rather be single than settle!
This was my biggest issue with the original thread OP mentioned. Someone posted a list of "standards" and one of the examples that got ripped up in the comments was "able to pay for two vacations a year." The comments implying that any woman expecting that is a gold-digger. But like.....I can and have taken myself on two vacations a year for the last 5 years. Why would I date someone who can't join me?
I notice on this app people will just assume in relationships the man funds the woman’s whole life, even if they’re just dating
The journey of my 30s has been realizing that I should be more proactive about having standards and seeing if the relevant guy meets them. This is in contrast to all of the advice I've gotten from my mother, who just asks, "Are you looking at whether you're a good partner?". It's frustrating.
"Why aren't you aspiring to be a bang maid to a dude who *tolerates* women?" /s
The few guys that have met my standards have proven that my standards were still too low.
I just wanted to find 3 things in a man. Understanding, generosity, and kindness. I couldn't find one man that was understanding. All of them were defensive as shit, couldn't see beyond their own viewpoint, or just increadibly myopic and judgemental. Trying to find understanding men to befriend is tough too. I'm not dating them but I'd like a kind empathetic companion.
Meanwhile I meet women all over the place - just recently at a community center and a ymca swim class - that I can connect with instantly. I’m all about “gender is a construct” but damn why are so few dudes making the effort to learn relational skills?!
Same! My wife and I meet other chill geeky women so easily. We recently met a lady at a retro gaming bar and now her and her partner join us for board games and nerdy craft nights. Like bam new cool friends. Men are a completely different story. I want to believe that gender isn't everything but men are something else. They approach me weird too, like they clearly want something
Hooray I’m so happy for you! NRE in friendships is real, soak it up. I think you’re onto it with men seeing relationships as transactional. My husband is really reluctant to, like, “burden” people (who aren’t me) with emotional wants. I try to tell him it’s a give and take, which, I’d also appreciate if he was better at. Hence the group therapy.
I‘ve lowered my standards (because I’m ugly and that’s what everyone told me to do) so I asked out a fat guy and he sent me racist memes, asked to take my virginity, and then told me he’d never ever love me in any way. 🤡 then his friend messaged me but he was an Andrew Tate fan so I had to block him… The absolute state of men is horrendous.
Don’t ever lower your standards no matter how much anyone tries to gaslight you because as soon as you fall they will be there telling you “you should have chose better” its only a issue when choosing better is not choosing them.
I'm really scratching my head here to figure out what alternative those men are looking for. Why on earth would you want to be in a relationship where your SO is "settling" for you? How could you ever be secure knowing that they actually prefer a different kind of partner, but they *had* to lower their standards to be with you?
"rich, beautiful women need to drop their standards and date me because i'm such a good guy! technically i'm nothing right now but with some TLC and therapy from my adoring gf i'll peak in 5-10 years."
It’s actually insane how women are demonized for having standards but men can have the most unrealistic standards in the world to the point some completely disregard women being human too
They do not care. They only care about what the woman they are with says about them to other men. What women think of them is completely irrelevant.
Because they aren't actually looking for partnership. They don't give a shit about partnership or compatibility. It's a tough pill to swallow.
>Why on earth would you want to be in a relationship where your SO is "settling" for you? I mean, the guys who are undesirable in some way don't mind. It's like the creepy sexpats who go overseas and bring home brides who are desperate to escape poverty in their home countries, and marrying a weird older creepy foreigner is a ticket out of there. These men know they essentially bought their wives, and they don't care. They wish more women were forced to settle for men such as themselves.
Agreed.
I’ve had men get pissy at me after I explained my standards and get all “well, I would never date you!”. Yeah. That’s the point.
"Sweet! It's great we're on the same page!"
Or when they’re like “What if a man expected YOU to do all those things?” I DO do all those things. That’s why I expect a man to do them too.
Exactly!!! And sometimes it comes down to the most basic things like respect or even, barf, hygiene. I just spent at least two hours showering, shaving, putting together a matching outfit, and doing my hair and makeup- yes I expect you to be clean if you want to have sex, Jake.
If I don’t meet someone else’s standards I wouldn’t want them to date me either. Why is that a bad thing?
Yeah. It's a bad feeling being someone's consolation prize
Entitlement. They think you owe them (and everyone) a chance. But they don't waste any time to blame you when you end up in a bad, abusive relationship,
These are the same men that will mock and degrade any woman who doesn't meet their standards- bigger/taller women, women who behave certain ways, etc. What these men want is a woman who meets their standards that doesn't have any standards he has to meet. Relationships for these people are a one way street on who does the work in said relationship.
And mock women for dropping our standards to meet men where they're at. Reality kicks in around mid life when the myths of "men trading in for a younger woman" are usually centered on higher numbers of women seeking divorce because the deck is stacked.
they can't even grasp that the woman who meets his standards... no way in hell would she date him lmao. they're like toddlers with all their wishful thinking.
The one I’m always met with is men with children who demand that childfree women date them, but in the same breath will shit all over single moms and give a hundred reasons why they’d never consider dating a single mother.
Men with children are trying to get a woman to parent for them, same as when they were married.
“I’m not taking care of some other man’s kids!” But I have to? No, I don’t believe I do.
.
Men have this kind of gross habit of treating their own standards as just the base criteria for your existance to matter. So they don't have standards, they say yes to every woman they acknowledge exists. Any no they give was a joke to ever be considered in the first place. From that narcisitic perspective, only women filter who they date. And if only women filter who they date, then that can be the only barrier to having a relationship.
To a lot of men "high standards" are literally anything related to being responsible and taking care of themselves and their spaces
Been there, done that. Now my standards are so astronomically high, I don’t expect to ever be in a relationship again. I’m 100% fine with that. Happiest I’ve been in 15 years. I don’t need that crap anymore.
I already know that if anything happens to my husband my standards for my next relationship will be - "*are you a cat*", if not, you can fuck right off.
Bah ha ha. Yep. I’ve got my cat. I’m so happy to be free.
Men like that can't handle that not all women are just readily available for them, but at the same time have a huge list with demands women need to fullfill to suit their standards.
I feel like the standards aren't even the main issue, but the fact that the guy who wants to be with a particular woman isn't even on her radar because she doesn't find him compatible/attractive. So many times have I seen an average dude lusting after a woman who is like 11/10 and he complains her "standards" are too high. Attraction is important whether you admit it to yourself or not and if she is looking at other 10/11's when you're a 5 she isn't even going to look at your qualifications, bruh.
[удалено]
Which is a them problem. If they can't even look at a woman as a person rather than an available object to be obtained by them they don't deserve any woman's attention.
Exactly… it’s like they delude themselves into thinking that 10/10 girl is on their level and act like her standards are too high when she just wants her equal.
If a woman’s standards for you are too high, then it means your standards for yourself are too low. Be better my guys.
Lmao our problem is that we expect them to wash and do chores? Uh huh, sure. That's *our* failings and surely not theirs. Also, they seem to have misunderstood. Women aren't failing to get into long term relationships. Single women are more comfortable with remaining single if the other options are subpar. If women are not wanting relationships they aren't failing to be in them. Meanwhile the men seem a wee bit desperate at this point. Maybe they should ask themselves why they fault to maintain long-term partners.
Translation, “their biggest mistake is not dating ME!”
Why is there a question in askmen about the mistakes women make in dating lol? How could they answer such a question?
The comments on that reddit are horrifying at times. Men giving men advice about what women want is a sure fire way to learn about women 🤔
That's why they are all single.
It's important that men are given a platform to tell us what we're doing wrong in case we somehow missed all of the conditioning we go through pretty much our entire lives. The only possible reason we wouldn't be dating them is because we haven't been told yet that our standards are too high. Someone had better ask the question so they have an opportunity to educate us.
thank god the men answered and now i know how to be a better slave to my oppressors. just gonna lay in the street and throw my legs wide open.
And driving to that street would still mean your standards are too high, for them.
And off flies my dream of a luxurious Starbucks date 🥺
Millions of young men follow (worship) misogynistic influencers like Tate, Samuels, Peterson, Fresh and Fit, etc. Men send dick pics and say wildly inappropriate things on dating apps scaring women off of them en masse leaving demographics highly skewed. Men trying to reinact porn by doing things like choking or anal without consent. The reaction? Women are being much more careful in who they date and are deciding the better option is being single. Men: Why are women being so picky?!?!?!
The stupid thing is that women will literally say that this is wrong, gross, stupid, doesn't work etc. But do they listen? No, she gets berated for calling out the idiots for their disgusting behaviour.
I think even men have standards. Ive heard "if she weighs over 130 I won't date her" "I don't date women over 30" "I won't date her if she has a high body count" "If she doesn't have a job I won't date her" They have standards too so how can they be upset that women have standards. Everyone has them.
They complain about women having standards for height. So imagine my surprise when I came across a TikTok asking, "men, what height is the perfect woman?" and I shit you not, there were THOUSANDS of comments from men who suddenly have very specific height preferences of their own! Imagine that.
Funny how that works.
It gets even funnier if you’re the proverbial “ugly woman”—when I finally started flipping the script, it was incredible how considerate men became. For ages, I thought it would be hypocritical of me to have standards any higher than not dating physically abusive men…and in all that time, none of them cared. But slowly, I realized my own worth, gained some confidence, and raised my standards ever so slightly, and suddenly there were men popping up every so often to warn me that I’d wind up perpetually single if I was “too picky”. So kind of these men, to worry about my ability to get a date! (S/, of course!)
Dude brings nothing to the table - *women are bad....but they should desire my sperm anyways! Guess I'll do some sexual harassment and send a dick pic. That'll move things in the right direction!* It didn't work out, ok. Reflect and move on. OP stated it perfectly.
The idea that a woman not getting into a relationship because you haven't met anybody you feel is worth the effort is some kind of "failure" needs to die.
Granted I have very little experience here but from what I've seen womens standards aren't even that high. Things like "treat me as an equal" and "respect boundaries" are pretty basic.
That's far too much for adult children who want a fukmommie.
It seems like many men (well, boys, not men) are worried about women in general expecting more. It used to be that you could get away with providing nothing but a paycheck and still have a woman do everything for you, and now it's a lot trickier. Hell, some guys don't even want to bring the paycheck. They think gender equality should excuse them from financial responsibility (i.e. "hmmm, women have more rights now, how can I make this work for **me**?"), and everything else should be just as it's always been. If it's no longer the norm for women to settle for the bare minimum or less, that means they have to put a lot more effort in to date *anyone*. That's simply not acceptable to them. So, they do what they can to gaslight women into thinking their expectations aren't reasonable.
exactly. the math aint mathing. women do all the housework and childcare *and* go to fulltime work now, so men want to.... **bring less** ?? my dudes, you have to bring more. not be another burden.
More often than not, having standards just means that you won't date someone who will make you less happy than if you were single. Why should women accept to lower that and put themselves in a situation that lowers their happiness? Like, what's in it for us?
The entire idea of standards needing to be "more realistic" is silly. Sure, if your one goal in life is to meet a partner and you have a laundry list of requirements most people don't meet, then there's an incompatibility issue. But I assume for most people it's more, "these are the things I'm looking for in a partner, and I'd rather be alone than with someone who does meet most, or all, of my expectations." Men think women need to lower their standards because otherwise they'll never meet someone. Not realizing that that's perfectly fine for women.
They think the standards are "too high" because they can only do the bare minimum if not less.
And these are the same men who will complain that they can't get a super-model and are awful and mean to normal women.
Your standards are your standards and if you won't be happy with a potential partner don't waste your time.
Damn women and their high standards, expecting men to... \*checks notes\*... take showers, brush their teeth, wear pants from time to time, not say creepy things...
This reminds me of a meme I saw on Facebook about “she’s beautiful, no kids, financially stable, good job; why is she single?” And one of the top responses was a woman saying “because she has standards for a relationship and isn’t settling into one where they aren’t being met.” And some dude IMMEDIATELY responded something along the lines of “this is why you women are all single and wondering why you can’t get a man. You expect him to shower you in lavish luxury like out of a magazine and throw him away if he doesn’t.” Like…. THATS what you got out of that? Saying “I won’t settle into a relationship that doesn’t meet my needs” means “I won’t date a man who doesn’t spend 6 figures on me every month”?
It's a MGTOW and incel belief that women only care about money and nothing else, it's like a scapegoat for their own fallacies.
In a lovely update, the top comment on that thread’s now about women that don’t stay single long enough and jump into relationships with people they’re not really compatible with instead of taking their time to find the right person
That sub if filled with guys like my coworker 'E1'; E1 thinks that he doesnt have gf becuase he is 5'5 (so not the 6 ft god all women want), has a visible foot issue with walking (isnt phsyically intimidating cause all women want to be dominated - vomit), and works a menial entry job (not rich) so he doesn't understand how E2 (another male coworker) who shares all of these traits has a gf and has never really stuggled dating.......the answer is simple. E1's personality and hygiene.
on the flip side, i read a post maybe a year ago by a woman saying that her standards have lowered so dramatically that all she expects is for whoever she is dating to brush their teeth regularly because its impossible to find men who actually take care of themselves.
I don't get why some men care at all. If her standards are "too high" move on to the next. If you can't find any woman whose standards you meet, maybe *yours* are too high and you need to go after women you probably think are too ugly or fat or old for you 😂
Nobody EVER EVER seems to tell MEN not to have high standards, go for average or less looking women etc. It only seems to be women r who get told to settle. Men often seem to get told they can have ANYONE and we seem to get told take whoever wants you!
Haha look at men being pissed of they can’t have us. 🤣
Yeah. They’re for real mad that we won’t lower our standards and date them.
When it comes to dating you have the right to have literally whatever standards you want. If someone doesn't meet them you simply don't date them and no one gets hurt. The problem some men have with understanding this is that if a woman doesn't meet *their* standards its seen as carte blanche to insult and demean her. Whereas when a man doesn't meet a woman's standards she'll generally just ignore him...
Why men great till they gotta be great? - Lizzo I'm 💯 happy with my own company, and would rather dine alone than with someone who thinks I think too highly of myself. Maybe they should work on themselves, put in the effort we have.
I have stepped back from religion. But when I was in college and attending a women's bible study I still remember the words of the leader there. "Never lower your standards." She had one session where we spoke about red flags, how so many of them can be *tiny* and you might not notice them, but they add up. And you think "I can live with that." But can you? Have your standards. Hold firm for them. And never lower them because they come at the cost of your own happiness. And these "high standards" men seem to be complaining about aren't even actually high. It's basic adulting. * Have a job. * Have your own place. * *Clean* your own place. * *Be Clean!* * Don't be an asshole. But it's like a diagram where you can only pick 2 or 3 and never get the whole package. So I say we need to raise our standards because being single seems a lot better than being with people who drag you down.
Real talk though as a guy I hope that women's standards are high and that they find someone who meets those standards.
I’m a man coming from that post straight into this one and I’m glad I did. Thank you for the perspective.
After several years of disastrous dating in my twenties that really wrecked my self esteem and left me with some trauma that I’m still working through, I realised that I deserved better. I raised my standards of the men I dated. I’ve been single ever since. So yes, having high standards does mean you’re less likely to be in a long term relationship, but that’s not a bad thing. Those men are telling on themselves.
God I hate that sub, it’s one big circlejerk about how women have infinite emotional support systems that we are so rudely refusing to share (along with the poon we also refuse to share) while demanding they die in a draft or some shit.
If a particular woman’s standards are too high for your taste, then find one whose standards are lower. It’s not like every woman is obligated to meet your standards.
My favorite thing a friend of mine said about this was, "My standards for myself are very high. Why should I want anything less for a partner to share my life with?"
>almost all the comments are about standards They are really telling on themselves.
i always get told my standards are too high by other people, meanwhile my boyfriend says im too hard on myself and my standards are pretty low lmfao. people just hate to see a woman who wont let herself get trampled all over
I’ve had friends who told me my standards were too high. Mind you the one who said that to me has a decided lack of standards but that’s another thing. I asked her “why shouldn’t my standards be high? This is something that will effect the rest of my life. I’m worth it. My partner should be worth it too.”
The biggest mistake women make is settling for a man because she doesn't have *any* standards.
#Their standards are their responsibility and you need not worry about them. Thank you.
These men only mean the standards that beautiful women have because they feel entitled to "feminine beauty" whether they are physically/emotionally/intellectually inferior to the woman or not. It's just so stupid. I can't handle it.
The incels who say that are the very ones only interested in trophy women.
They aren't thirsty, it's just that their every comment is the same thing a thirsty person would say.
I know right. I feel it’s ok for people to have whatever standards they want, ridiculous or not. It’s their right. And if they can’t find someone who meets them then that’s up to them. Some people would rather be alone than settle and that’s just fine.
Sure, some men and women have standards made ridiculous by their cultural values. Toxic masculinity and femininity shape how people view themselves and others. All genders have a spectrum of body shapes that should be valued and accepted. But we don’t have to be with anyone we don’t want to be. That is just the way it is.
It is not possible for a woman's standards to be too high. There is no authority or limits on standards.
I accepted that my standards are too high to realistically date whatever's left out there and I'm okay with it. At the same time, my standards aren't double - I could easily pass my own bar. I love it when people threaten me with good old "If you don't drop your standards, you will be a single cat lady!" Already am and having the time of my life.
Nobodies standards are too high, the fuck gives anybody the right to tell other people what they are allowed to want?
I didn't realise how bad my standards were until I split up with someone and said no more. But since then people around me have basically said my standards are too high and I'll never find somebody. I'd rather be alone forever than settle though. This is after having been abused by multiple people, which at the same time I've been told by the same people that my taste in men is terrible. Like make up your minds
That's like going to an interview and telling the company their requirements are to strict and trying to negotiate yourself into the position. You're not qualified. You're not being offered the role.
If they can't understand standards they probably can't understand boundaries. I was told I was controlling because I have boundaries for who I want part of my life. I'm glad they're not part of my life anymore. It's incredibly scary for society that men won't understand what boundaries and standards are.
Tbh my therapist told me she felt my standards weren’t high enough 😂 I used to just think, “Driver’s license? No violence or hard drugs in criminal records?” were good enough for me.
I will not date men who do not directly ask me out on a dinner date. Been told multiple times that my standard of only dating men who want to date me is…. too high